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Obama didn't release his college transcripts. Why should Romney release his tax returns?
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Bill Gaffney
Jul 17, 2012, 2:58:52 AM7/17/12
to
Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
He palgiarized his work.
At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
didn't.
Laugh...laugh...laugh!
He palgiarized his work.
At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
didn't.
Laugh...laugh...laugh!
Message has been deleted
John
Jul 17, 2012, 11:07:47 AM7/17/12
to
sittingduck wrote:
> Obama will wait, letting the rightards make complete fools of themselves for
> a while longer. Then release the transcripts, making them look even more
> pedantic than they already have demonstrated with the birther crap.
>
You mean releasing his phony forged birth certificates, all of them?
> a while longer. Then release the transcripts, making them look even more
> pedantic than they already have demonstrated with the birther crap.
>
You mean releasing his phony forged birth certificates, all of them?
Wayne
Jul 17, 2012, 11:08:10 AM7/17/12
to
"sittingduck" wrote in message
news:XnsA0932B367BE5du...@nomail.afraid.org...
for
# a while longer. Then release the transcripts, making them look even more
# pedantic than they already have demonstrated with the birther crap.
Sounds like a good start. Then Obama can provide information on his SSN.
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 17, 2012, 3:32:46 PM7/17/12
to
Presidental candidate he had better.
Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
voting for him.
Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
TMT
deep
Jul 17, 2012, 3:53:58 PM7/17/12
to
Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
just supposed to let them.
>
>TMT
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 3:56:12 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> He plagiarized his work.
One can't help but wonder whether you are aware of the long-term,
irreparable, permanent damage that you are inflicting to the
Republican Party.
-Ramon
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 17, 2012, 3:57:36 PM7/17/12
to
>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>
>> He palgiarized his work.
>>
>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>> didn't.
>>
>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>
>If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>Presidental candidate he had better.
Too late. He will be nominated.
>
>Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>voting for him.
Did you get your voting rights reinstated?
>On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>
>> He palgiarized his work.
>>
>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>> didn't.
>>
>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>
>If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>Presidental candidate he had better.
>
>Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>voting for him.
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 3:58:31 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> He plagiarized his work.
Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
stick together against your hatred.
-Ramon
==================================
Alabama's immigration law: Jim Crow revisited
By Martin Luther King III and Richard Trumka, Special to CNN
updated 11:23 AM EST, Thu November 17, 2011
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
# Writers: MLK began fight for civil rights in Alabama; now state is
denying rights again
# Alabama's strict immigration law terrorizes families, they say;
conflicts with our values
# They urge Obama to end laws that use racial profiling, target
immigrant communities
# Writers: We need to focus on comprehensive immigration reform and
fixing economy
Editor's note: Martin Luther King III is president and chief executive
officer of The King Center in Atlanta. Richard Trumka is president of
the AFL-CIO.
"(CNN) -- It is one of the painful ironies of our time that in the
same season Martin Luther King Jr.'s memory is finally honored with a
memorial in our nation's capital, the state where he began to lead the
civil rights movement is once more the center of an ugly conflict over
racial injustice.
"The passage of Alabama's anti-immigrant legislation, HB 56, invokes
inhumanity reminiscent of the Jim Crow South. And the police state it
has created is equally cruel.
"If the law stands, children will be denied admission to public
schools if they can't prove their citizenship, and schools will be
turned into enforcement operations. Poor people of color will be
ripped from their families if they are caught in public without their
papers in order. Samaritans and people of conscience who employ,
harbor or help undocumented workers will be severely punished.
[...]
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/17/opinion/trumka-king-civil-rights-alabama/
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 17, 2012, 4:06:15 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 2:57 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> >Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
LOL...nominated doesn't mean elected to the office of President.
And it is an interesting insight into the Repubulican Party that they
would nominate a possilble felon to be their candidate for President.
You folks really are desperate, aren't you?
TMT
wrote:
> >Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
And it is an interesting insight into the Repubulican Party that they
would nominate a possilble felon to be their candidate for President.
You folks really are desperate, aren't you?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 17, 2012, 4:07:54 PM7/17/12
to
It is why the GOP is in its death spiral.
TMT
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 17, 2012, 4:10:27 PM7/17/12
to
>deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
“Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
“Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 17, 2012, 4:11:53 PM7/17/12
to
>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>On Jul 17, 2:57 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> >Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>> >On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>> >> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>
>> >> He palgiarized his work.
>>
>> >> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>> >> didn't.
>>
>> >> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>
>> >If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>> >Presidental candidate he had better.
>>
>> Too late. He will be nominated.
>>
>>
>>
>> >Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>> >voting for him.
>>
>> Did you get your voting rights reinstated?
>
>LOL...nominated doesn't mean elected to the office of President.
You are too stupid to read what you're writing. You said
:: will not even consider voting for him.
I never said he'd be elected.
Try posting sober, OK?
>And it is an interesting insight into the Repubulican Party that they
>would nominate a possilble felon to be their candidate for President.
He's not a possible felon.
>You folks really are desperate, aren't you?
you folks are really stupid, aren't you?
[chuckle]
>On Jul 17, 2:57 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> >Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>> >On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>> >> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>
>> >> He palgiarized his work.
>>
>> >> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>> >> didn't.
>>
>> >> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>
>> >If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>> >Presidental candidate he had better.
>>
>> Too late. He will be nominated.
>>
>>
>>
>> >Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>> >voting for him.
>>
>> Did you get your voting rights reinstated?
>
>LOL...nominated doesn't mean elected to the office of President.
:: will not even consider voting for him.
I never said he'd be elected.
Try posting sober, OK?
>And it is an interesting insight into the Repubulican Party that they
>would nominate a possilble felon to be their candidate for President.
>You folks really are desperate, aren't you?
[chuckle]
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 17, 2012, 4:12:22 PM7/17/12
to
>Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> > He plagiarized his work.
>
>Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
>stick together against your hatred.
More racist spew from Ramon.
>On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> > He plagiarized his work.
>
>Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
>stick together against your hatred.
azjohn
Jul 17, 2012, 4:14:26 PM7/17/12
to
On 7/17/2012 12:58 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> > He plagiarized his work.
>
> Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
> stick together against your hatred.
>
> -Ramon
We know why they stick together. They butt fuck each other. Besides,
> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> > He plagiarized his work.
>
> Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
> stick together against your hatred.
>
> -Ramon
they are incompetent
and uneducated parasites. They stick together to suck the life out of
America.
Ramon, take you bimbo, and your little greasers and go back to your
third world shit hole. Maybe someone will appreciate you there.
deep
Jul 17, 2012, 4:29:55 PM7/17/12
to
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 4:36:16 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 3:12 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
Klaus:
Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn" (a fellow
conservative of yours). Let's say that I am trying to decide which
party to vote for.
Please take a position on the message from Mr. azjohn, would you???
I can provide dozen, if not hundreds of similar messages, and none of
them are from liberals.
-Ramon
wrote:
> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn" (a fellow
conservative of yours). Let's say that I am trying to decide which
party to vote for.
Please take a position on the message from Mr. azjohn, would you???
I can provide dozen, if not hundreds of similar messages, and none of
them are from liberals.
-Ramon
RD Sandman
Jul 17, 2012, 5:05:00 PM7/17/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:7cd135d2-9e55-417d-
9ea5-07d...@fi17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
Don't read much of anything from TMT, Lookout, Dudu or Mexician Born
Polygamist have you.
--
If you hear me yell, "Eject! Eject! Eject!"
The last two will be echoes......
If you stop to ask "Why?" You will be talking to
yourself because you just became the pilot.
Sleep well, tonight.....
9ea5-07d...@fi17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
Polygamist have you.
--
If you hear me yell, "Eject! Eject! Eject!"
The last two will be echoes......
If you stop to ask "Why?" You will be talking to
yourself because you just became the pilot.
Sleep well, tonight.....
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 5:16:56 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 4:05 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:7cd135d2-9e55-417d-
> 9ea5-07d13959f...@fi17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
the others. Have never seen a hateful message from them.
-Ramon
wrote:
> Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:7cd135d2-9e55-417d-
> 9ea5-07d13959f...@fi17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 17, 3:12 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
> >> >On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> >> > > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> >> > > He plagiarized his work.
>
> >> >Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
> >> >stick together against your hatred.
>
> >> More racist spew from Ramon.
>
> > Klaus:
>
> > Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn" (a fellow
> > conservative of yours). Let's say that I am trying to decide which
> > party to vote for.
>
> > Please take a position on the message from Mr. azjohn, would you???
>
> > I can provide dozen, if not hundreds of similar messages, and none of
> > them are from liberals.
>
> Don't read much of anything from TMT, Lookout, Dudu or
> Mexician Born Polygamist have you.
I read stuff from TMT (my good buddy) and Dudu (recently). Don't know
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 17, 3:12 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
> >> >On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> >> > > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> >> > > He plagiarized his work.
>
> >> >Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
> >> >stick together against your hatred.
>
> >> More racist spew from Ramon.
>
> > Klaus:
>
> > Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn" (a fellow
> > conservative of yours). Let's say that I am trying to decide which
> > party to vote for.
>
> > Please take a position on the message from Mr. azjohn, would you???
>
> > I can provide dozen, if not hundreds of similar messages, and none of
> > them are from liberals.
>
> Don't read much of anything from TMT, Lookout, Dudu or
> Mexician Born Polygamist have you.
the others. Have never seen a hateful message from them.
-Ramon
RD Sandman
Jul 17, 2012, 5:23:42 PM7/17/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in
news:972385e4-0609-4745...@d6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
have seen nothing from TMT? I have and that is why he is one of the few
who is really in my twit filter. Dudu blows good and bad.
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 5:30:32 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 4:23 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Because, as you just said, you don't read them. And you claim that you
> have seen nothing from TMT? I have and that is why he is one of the few
> who is really in my twit filter. Dudu blows good and bad.
I follow alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration and post in a few more
(alt.legal, limbaugh) and I had never seen a post from "Lookout" or
"Mexican Born Polygamist" (is that Rightardia?).
Are we sure we are talking about the same definition of HATRED?
-Ramon
"The Left hates ideas (which is fine!!!)...
... the Right, people" -Moi
wrote:
> Because, as you just said, you don't read them. And you claim that you
> have seen nothing from TMT? I have and that is why he is one of the few
> who is really in my twit filter. Dudu blows good and bad.
(alt.legal, limbaugh) and I had never seen a post from "Lookout" or
"Mexican Born Polygamist" (is that Rightardia?).
Are we sure we are talking about the same definition of HATRED?
-Ramon
"The Left hates ideas (which is fine!!!)...
... the Right, people" -Moi
RD Sandman
Jul 17, 2012, 5:33:20 PM7/17/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:6ee7f56a-9395-4a9a-
9589-b18...@5g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 4:23嚙緘m, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Because, as 嚙緙ou just said, you don't read them. 嚙璀nd you claim that
> you
>> have seen nothing from TMT? 嚙瘢 have and that is why he is one of the
fe
> w
>> who is really in my twit filter. 嚙瘩udu blows good and bad.
in only one direction.
9589-b18...@5g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 4:23嚙緘m, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Because, as 嚙緙ou just said, you don't read them. 嚙璀nd you claim that
> you
>> have seen nothing from TMT? 嚙瘢 have and that is why he is one of the
fe
> w
>> who is really in my twit filter. 嚙瘩udu blows good and bad.
>
> I follow alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration and post in a few more
> (alt.legal, limbaugh) and I had never seen a post from "Lookout" or
> "Mexican Born Polygamist" (is that Rightardia?).
>
> Are we sure we are talking about the same definition of HATRED?
>
> -Ramon
>
> "The Left hates ideas (which is fine!!!)...
> ... the Right, people" -Moi
>
Probably. Except I look at it coming from both sides. You seem to look
> I follow alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration and post in a few more
> (alt.legal, limbaugh) and I had never seen a post from "Lookout" or
> "Mexican Born Polygamist" (is that Rightardia?).
>
> Are we sure we are talking about the same definition of HATRED?
>
> -Ramon
>
> "The Left hates ideas (which is fine!!!)...
> ... the Right, people" -Moi
>
in only one direction.
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 5:33:38 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 4:23 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Because, as you just said, you don't read them. And you claim that you
> have seen nothing from TMT? I have and that is why he is one of the few
> who is really in my twit filter. Dudu blows good and bad.
If TMT and Dudu do not qualify to be in the SPLC List of Hatred, I
have no problem with them.
I believe in the motto: "If you don't like the heat, stay out of the
kitchen".
We can call Bush "chimp", but we cannot call Obama that epithet, for
reason that must be obvious.
-Ramon
wrote:
> Because, as you just said, you don't read them. And you claim that you
> have seen nothing from TMT? I have and that is why he is one of the few
> who is really in my twit filter. Dudu blows good and bad.
have no problem with them.
I believe in the motto: "If you don't like the heat, stay out of the
kitchen".
We can call Bush "chimp", but we cannot call Obama that epithet, for
reason that must be obvious.
-Ramon
Alim Nassor
Jul 17, 2012, 5:36:42 PM7/17/12
to
long enough to ever consider voting for someone else.
Alim Nassor
Jul 17, 2012, 5:38:40 PM7/17/12
to
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 5:48:04 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 4:38 pm, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> None so blind as he who will not see.
Cite?? Care to show a message from TMT that is filled with hatred (of
> None so blind as he who will not see.
human beings!! not of ideas).
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 5:46:01 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 4:33 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Probably. Except I look at it coming from both sides.
> You seem to look in only one direction.
Hold it right there!!
I am white AND Hispanic (while you are not!) and am therefore offended
by any attacks against those groups. I am in fact, pissed at attacks
to ANY group based on IMMUTABLE (inborn) characteristics: race,
ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation. Even religion which is
mutable.
Having said that...
I have NO problem, whatsoever hearing or saying:
"Dimocraps"
"Repugs"
"Retarded" (whichever)
"Baggers"
"Ramon is an {idiot, moron, etc.}
because that is part of the political game. It infuriates me when
people that:
(a) Have not run for office
(b) Do not participate in the forum
are insulted.
-Ramon
See post from a poster on YOUR side. I had NEVER EVER seen something
like that from a Liberal. Those babies fill qualifications (a) and
(b).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.liberalism,
alt.politics.immigration
From: Fact Attack <ilp3...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 00:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: U.S. and Venezuela pledged more than $1 billion each to
Haiti and have delivered nothing
[referring to Haitian babies:]
God I hope a hurricane comes and wipes all those ugly babies out to
sea and drowns them all.
wrote:
> Probably. Except I look at it coming from both sides.
> You seem to look in only one direction.
I am white AND Hispanic (while you are not!) and am therefore offended
by any attacks against those groups. I am in fact, pissed at attacks
to ANY group based on IMMUTABLE (inborn) characteristics: race,
ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation. Even religion which is
mutable.
Having said that...
I have NO problem, whatsoever hearing or saying:
"Dimocraps"
"Repugs"
"Retarded" (whichever)
"Baggers"
"Ramon is an {idiot, moron, etc.}
because that is part of the political game. It infuriates me when
people that:
(a) Have not run for office
(b) Do not participate in the forum
are insulted.
-Ramon
See post from a poster on YOUR side. I had NEVER EVER seen something
like that from a Liberal. Those babies fill qualifications (a) and
(b).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.liberalism,
alt.politics.immigration
From: Fact Attack <ilp3...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 00:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: U.S. and Venezuela pledged more than $1 billion each to
Haiti and have delivered nothing
[referring to Haitian babies:]
God I hope a hurricane comes and wipes all those ugly babies out to
sea and drowns them all.
RD Sandman
Jul 17, 2012, 6:04:07 PM7/17/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in
news:666462ad-9365-4d7b...@z19g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 4:33�pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Probably. �Except I look at it coming from both sides.
> > You seem to look in only one direction.
>
> Hold it right there!!
>
> I am white AND Hispanic (while you are not!)
smoke.
and am therefore offended
> by any attacks against those groups.
life constantly pissed off.
I am in fact, pissed at attacks
> to ANY group based on IMMUTABLE (inborn) characteristics: race,
> ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation. Even religion which is
> mutable.
>
> Having said that...
>
> I have NO problem, whatsoever hearing or saying:
>
> "Dimocraps"
> "Repugs"
> "Retarded" (whichever)
> "Baggers"
> "Ramon is an {idiot, moron, etc.}
>
> because that is part of the political game. It infuriates me when
> people that:
>
> (a) Have not run for office
> (b) Do not participate in the forum
>
> are insulted.
of bad things are said about your side......I have only said that if you
haven't seen some of the stuff coming from your side, you are fucking
blind.
> See post from a poster on YOUR side. I had NEVER EVER seen something
> like that from a Liberal.
Those babies fill qualifications (a) and
> (b).
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---- Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.politics.liberalism,
> alt.politics.immigration
> From: Fact Attack <ilp3...@yahoo.com>
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 00:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: U.S. and Venezuela pledged more than $1 billion each to
> Haiti and have delivered nothing
>
> [referring to Haitian babies:]
>
> God I hope a hurricane comes and wipes all those ugly babies out to
> sea and drowns them all.
RD Sandman
Jul 17, 2012, 6:05:07 PM7/17/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:40a34b56-7b71-4e4d-
89df-39c...@n5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp? They are both
duly elected presidents of the country.
89df-39c...@n5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
duly elected presidents of the country.
RD Sandman
Jul 17, 2012, 6:07:06 PM7/17/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:aa747b83-0d21-4951-
8a60-b7f...@8g2000vbu.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 4:38�pm, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > None so blind as he who will not see.
>
> Cite?? Care to show a message from TMT that is filled with hatred (of
> human beings!! not of ideas).
Ahhh, does referring to Bush as a chimp come from a hatred of human
beings? If so, then why shouldn't Obama be subject to those same rules?
Don't you think he is a human being either?
8a60-b7f...@8g2000vbu.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 4:38�pm, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > None so blind as he who will not see.
>
> Cite?? Care to show a message from TMT that is filled with hatred (of
> human beings!! not of ideas).
beings? If so, then why shouldn't Obama be subject to those same rules?
Don't you think he is a human being either?
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 6:20:05 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 5:04 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> You have absolutely no idea of what I am or what I am not.
> Quit blowing smoke.
That can be solved VERY easily (like Romney's tax returns).
You are NOT dual-ethnicity.
-Ramon
wrote:
> You have absolutely no idea of what I am or what I am not.
> Quit blowing smoke.
You are NOT dual-ethnicity.
-Ramon
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 6:22:20 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 5:05 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp?
> They are both duly elected presidents of the country.
When you step on a soap box, you risk receiving accolades AND rotten
tomatoes. That is THE price you pay.
-Ramon
Mexican Born Polygamist Killer
Jul 17, 2012, 6:32:41 PM7/17/12
to
>
>
When are you getting your GED?
Ramon F Herrera
Jul 17, 2012, 6:28:52 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 5:05 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp?
> They are both duly elected presidents of the country.
I wonder whether you are aware that you just called for the
elimination of SNL, political cartoons, elephants and donkeys that can
talk, etc.
Calling Bush "a chimp" is legally and morally correct.
Calling Obama "a chimp" is legally correct.
-Ramon
wrote:
> And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp?
> They are both duly elected presidents of the country.
elimination of SNL, political cartoons, elephants and donkeys that can
talk, etc.
Calling Bush "a chimp" is legally and morally correct.
Calling Obama "a chimp" is legally correct.
-Ramon
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 17, 2012, 7:16:08 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 3:11 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
> [chuckle]- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
How do you know that he is not a felon...have you seen his tax
returns...you know the ones that he refuses to show the American
voter.
"Flip Flop" Mitt is history if those tax returns are not released.
I sure hope that he doesn't release them...it will make my decision to
vote for much simpler...and so it will for millions of other American
voters.
TMT
>
> - Show quoted text -
How do you know that he is not a felon...have you seen his tax
returns...you know the ones that he refuses to show the American
voter.
"Flip Flop" Mitt is history if those tax returns are not released.
I sure hope that he doesn't release them...it will make my decision to
vote for much simpler...and so it will for millions of other American
voters.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 17, 2012, 7:18:23 PM7/17/12
to
third world shit hole trailer park. Maybe someone will appreciate you
there. "
Hmmm....sounds just like a bunch of conservatives doesn't it?
Laugh..laugh..laugh..
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 17, 2012, 7:19:56 PM7/17/12
to
It says it all about why the Republican Party is in its death spiral.
I and millions of Americans welcome its demise.
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 17, 2012, 7:22:03 PM7/17/12
to
On Jul 17, 4:23 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Sleep well, tonight.....- Hide quoted text -
If I were really in your kill filter, you would not be responding to
this discussion.
You just are a racist who doesn't like it when someone smacks your
favorite KKK theory down.
TMT
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL...here you go again whispering sweet nothings in my ear.
> - Show quoted text -
If I were really in your kill filter, you would not be responding to
this discussion.
You just are a racist who doesn't like it when someone smacks your
favorite KKK theory down.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 17, 2012, 7:26:04 PM7/17/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL...interesting how you came up with that image...sounds like you
> - Show quoted text -
have been in that conservative position.
As for voting for "Flip Flop" Mitt, if he doesn't release those tax
returns I can assure you that I and millions of American voters will
not vote for him.
So he has a choice...does he want to be President or are his tax
returns more important?
TMT
Harold Burton
Jul 17, 2012, 7:46:18 PM7/17/12
to
In article
<48c59383-4958-445f...@a8g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks stick together . . .
No need to wonder, the answer is obvious - stupidity. We can thank the
teachers' unions for that.
<http://www.city-journal.org/2012/22_2_california-teachers-association.ht
ml>
The Worst Union in America
How the California Teachers Association betrayed the schools and
crippled the state
In 1962, as tensions ran high between school districts and unions across
the country, members of the National Education Association gathered in
Denver for the organization�s 100th annual convention. Among the
speakers was Arthur F. Corey, executive director of the California
Teachers Association (CTA). �The strike as a weapon for teachers is
inappropriate, unprofessional, illegal, outmoded, and ineffective,�
Corey told the crowd. �You can�t go out on an illegal strike one day and
expect to go back to your classroom and teach good citizenship the next.�
Fast-forward nearly 50 years to May 2011, when the CTA�now the single
most powerful special interest in California�organized a �State of
Emergency� week to agitate for higher taxes in one of the most overtaxed
states in the nation. A CTA document suggested dozens of ways for
teachers to protest, including following state legislators incessantly,
attempting to close major transportation arteries, and boycotting
companies, such as Microsoft, that backed education reform. The week�s
centerpiece was an occupation of the state capitol by hundreds of
teachers and student sympathizers from the Cal State University system,
who clogged the building�s hallways and refused to leave. Police
arrested nearly 100 demonstrators for trespassing, including then�CTA
president David Sanchez. The protesting teachers had left their jobs
behind, even though their students were undergoing important statewide
tests that week. With the passage of 50 years, the CTA�s notions of
�good citizenship� had vanished.
So had high-quality public education in California. Seen as a national
leader in the classroom during the 1950s and 1960s, the country�s
largest state is today a laggard, competing with the likes of
Mississippi and Washington, D.C., at the bottom of national rankings.
The Golden State�s education tailspin has been blamed on everything from
class sizes to the property-tax restrictions enforced by Proposition 13
to an influx of Spanish-speaking students. But no portrait of the
system�s downfall would be complete without a depiction of the CTA, a
political behemoth that blocks meaningful education reform, protects
failing and even criminal educators, and inflates teacher pay and
benefits to unsustainable levels.
The CTA began its transformation in September 1975, when Governor Jerry
Brown signed the Rodda Act, which allowed California teachers to bargain
collectively. Within 18 months, 600 of the 1,000 local CTA chapters
moved to collective bargaining. As the union�s power grew, its ranks
nearly doubled, from 170,000 in the late 1970s to approximately 325,000
today. By following the union�s directions and voting in blocs in
low-turnout school-board elections, teachers were able to handpick their
own supervisors�a system that private-sector unionized workers would
envy. Further, the organization that had once forsworn the strike began
taking to the picket lines. Today, the CTA boasts that it has launched
more than 170 strikes in the years since Rodda�s passage.
The CTA�s most important resource, however, isn�t a pool of workers
ready to strike; it�s a fat bank account fed by mandatory dues that can
run more than $1,000 per member. In 2009, the union�s income was more
than $186 million, all of it tax-exempt. The CTA doesn�t need its
members� consent to spend this money on politicking, whether that�s
making campaign contributions or running advocacy campaigns to obstruct
reform. According to figures from the California Fair Political
Practices Commission (a public institution) in 2010, the CTA had spent
more than $210 million over the previous decade on political
campaigning�more than any other donor in the state. In fact, the CTA
outspent the pharmaceutical industry, the oil industry, and the tobacco
industry combined.
All this money has helped the union rack up an imposing number of
victories. The first major win came in 1988, with the passage of
Proposition 98. That initiative compelled California to spend more than
40 percent of its annual budget on education in grades K�12 and
community college. The spending quota eliminated schools� incentive to
get value out of every dollar: since funding was locked in, there was no
need to make things run cost-effectively. Thanks to union influence on
local school boards, much of the extra money�about $450 million a
year�went straight into teachers� salaries. Prop. 98�s malign effects
weren�t limited to education, however: by essentially making public
school funding an entitlement rather than a matter of discretionary
spending, it hastened California�s erosion of fiscal discipline. In
recent years, estimates of mandatory spending�s share of the state�s
budget have run as high as 85 percent, making it highly difficult for
the legislature to confront the severe budget crises of the past decade.
In 1991, the CTA took to the ramparts again to combat Proposition 174, a
ballot initiative that would have made California a national leader in
school choice by giving families universal access to school vouchers.
When initiative supporters began circulating the petitions necessary to
get it onto the ballot, some CTA members tried to intimidate petition
signers physically. The union also encouraged people to sign the
petition multiple times in order to throw the process into chaos. �There
are some proposals so evil that they should never go before the voters,�
explained D. A. Weber, the CTA�s president. One of the consultants who
organized the petitions testified in a court declaration at the time
that people with union ties had offered him $400,000 to refrain from
distributing them. Another claimed that a CTA member had tried to run
him off the road after a debate on school choice.
Weber and his followers weren�t successful in keeping the proposition
off the ballot, but they did manage to delay it for two years, giving
themselves time to organize a counteroffensive. They ran ads, recalls
Ken Khachigian, the former White House speechwriter who headed the Yes
on 174 campaign, �claiming that a witches� coven would be eligible for
the voucher funds and [could] set up a school of its own.� They
threatened to field challengers against political candidates who
supported school choice. They bullied members of the business community
who contributed money to the pro-voucher effort. When In-N-Out Burger
donated $25,000 to support Prop. 174, for instance, the CTA threatened
to press schools to drop contracts with the company.
In 1993, Prop. 174 finally came to a statewide vote. The union had
persuaded March Fong Eu, the CTA-endorsed secretary of state, to alter
the proposition�s heading on the ballot from PARENTAL CHOICE to
EDUCATION VOUCHERS�a change in wording that cost Prop. 174 ten points in
the polls, according to Myron Lieberman in his book The Teacher Unions.
The initiative, which had originally enjoyed 2�1 support among
California voters, managed to garner only a little over 30 percent of
the vote. Prop. 174�s backers had been outspent by a factor of eight,
with the CTA alone dropping $12.5 million on the opposition campaign.
Illustration by Sean Delonas
As the CTA�s power grew, it learned that it could extract policy
concessions simply by employing its aggressive PR machine. In 1996, with
the state�s budget in surplus, the CTA spent $1 million on an ad
campaign touting the virtues of reduced class sizes in kindergarten
through third grade. Feeling the heat from the campaign, Republican
governor Pete Wilson signed a measure providing subsidies to schools
with classes of 20 children or fewer. The program was a disaster: it
failed to improve educational outcomes, and the need to hire many new
teachers quickly, to handle all the smaller classes, reduced the quality
of teachers throughout the state. The program cost California nearly $2
billion per year at its high-water mark, becoming the most expensive
education-reform initiative in the state�s history. But it worked out
well for the CTA, whose ranks and coffers were swelled by all those new
teachers.
The union�s steady supply of cash allowed it to continue its quest for
political dominance unabated. In 1998, it spent nearly $7 million to
defeat Proposition 8�which would have used student performance as a
criterion for teacher reviews and would have required educators to pass
credentialing examinations in their disciplines�and more than $2 million
in a failed attempt to block Proposition 227, which eliminated bilingual
education in public schools. In 2002, the union spent $26 million to
defeat Proposition 38, another school voucher proposal. And in 2005,
with a special election called by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
looming, the CTA came up with a colossal $58 million�even going so far
as to mortgage its Sacramento headquarters�to defeat initiatives that
would have capped the growth of state spending, made it easier to fire
underperforming teachers, and ensured �paycheck protection,� which
compels unions to get their members� consent before using dues for
political purposes. (A new paycheck-protection measure will appear on
the November 2012 ballot.)
Cannily, the CTA also funds a wide array of liberal causes unrelated to
education, with the goal of spreading around enough cash to prevent
dissent from the Left. Among these causes: implementing a single-payer
health-care system in California, blocking photo-identification
requirements for voters, and limiting restraints on the government�s
power of eminent domain. The CTA was the single biggest financial
opponent of another Proposition 8, the controversial 2008 proposal to
ban gay marriage, ponying up $1.3 million to fight an initiative that
eventually won 52.2 percent of the vote. The union has also become the
biggest donor to the California Democratic Party. From 2003 to 2012, the
CTA spent nearly $102 million on political contributions; 0.08 percent
of that money went to Republicans.
At the same time that the union was becoming the largest financial force
in California politics, it was developing an equally powerful ground
game, stifling reform efforts at the local level. Consider the case of
Locke High School in the poverty-stricken Los Angeles neighborhood of
Watts. Founded in response to the area�s 1967 riots, Locke was intended
to provide a quality education to the neighborhood�s almost universally
minority students. For years, it failed: in 2006, with a student body
that was 65 percent Hispanic and 35 percent African-American, the school
sent just 5 percent of its graduates to four-year colleges, and the
dropout rate was nearly 51 percent.
Shortly before Locke reached this nadir, the school hired a
reform-minded principal, Frank Wells, who was determined to revive the
school�s fortunes. Just a few days after he arrived, a group of rival
gangs got into a dust-up; Wells expelled 80 of the students involved. In
the new atmosphere of discipline, Locke dropped �from first in the
number of campus crime reports in LAUSD [Los Angeles Unified School
District] to thirteenth,� writes Donna Foote in Relentless Pursuit: A
Year in the Trenches with Teach for America. Test scores and college
acceptance also began to rise, Foote reports.
But trouble arose with the union when Wells began requiring Locke
teachers to present weekly lesson plans. The local CTA affiliate�United
Teachers Los Angeles�filed a grievance against him and was soon urging
his removal. The last straw was Wells�s effort to convert Locke into an
independent charter school, where teachers would operate under severely
restricted union contracts. In May 2007, the district removed Wells from
his job. He was escorted from his office by three police officers and an
associate superintendent of schools, all on the basis of union
allegations that he had let teachers use classroom time to sign a
petition to turn Locke into a charter. Wells called the allegations �a
total fabrication,� and the signature gatherers backed him up. The LAUSD
reassigned him to a district office, where he was paid $600 a day to sit
in a cubicle and do nothing.
Luckily for Locke students, the union�s rearguard action came too late.
In 2007, the Los Angeles Board of Education voted 5�2 to hand Locke High
School to Green Dot, a charter school operator. Four years later, as the
final class of Locke students who had attended the school prior to its
transformation received their diplomas, the school�s graduation rate was
68 percent, and over 56 percent of Locke graduates were headed for
higher education.
One of the most noticeable changes at Locke has ramifications statewide:
when Green Dot took over, it required all teachers to reapply for their
jobs. It hired back only about one-third of them. That approach is
unimaginable in the rest of the state�s public schools, where a teaching
job is essentially a lifetime sinecure. A tiny 0.03 percent of
California teachers are dismissed after three or more years on the job.
In the past decade, the LAUSD�home to 33,000 teachers�has dismissed only
four. Even when teachers are fired, it�s seldom because of their
classroom performance: a 2009 expos� by the Los Angeles Times found that
only 20 percent of successful dismissals in the state had anything to do
with teaching ability. Most terminations involved teachers behaving
either obscenely or criminally. The National Council on Teacher Quality,
a Washington-based education-reform organization, gave California a
D-minus on its teacher-firing policies in its 2010 national report card.
Responsibility for this sorry situation goes largely to the CTA, which
has won concessions that make firing a teacher so difficult that
educators can usually keep their jobs for any offense that doesn�t cross
into outright criminality. With the cost of the proceedings regularly
running near half a million dollars, many districts choose to shuffle
problem employees around rather than try to fire them.
Even outright offenses are no guarantee of removal, thanks to CTA
influence. When a fired teacher appeals his case beyond the school
board, it goes to the Commission on Professional Competence�two of whose
three members are also teachers, one of them chosen by the educator
whose case is being heard. The CTA has stacked this process as well by
bargaining to require evidentiary standards equal to those used in
civil-court procedures and coaching the teachers on the panels. One
veteran school-district lawyer calls the appeals process �one of the
most complicated civil legal matters anywhere.� As the Times noted, �The
district wanted to fire a high school teacher who kept a stash of
pornography, marijuana and vials with cocaine residue at school, but
[the Commission on Professional Competence] balked, suggesting that
firing was too harsh.� The commission was also the reason that, as the
newspaper continued, the district was �unsuccessful in firing a male
middle school teacher spotted lying on top of a female colleague in the
metal shop�; the district had failed to �prove that the two were having
sex.�
Another regulatory body dominated by CTA influence is the state�s
Commission on Teacher Credentialing (CTC), the institution responsible
for removing the credentials of misbehaving teachers. A report released
in 2011 by California state auditor Elaine Howle found that the
commission had a backlog of approximately 12,600 cases, with responses
sometimes taking as long as three years. Because the CTC�which was
created by an act sponsored by the CTA�is made up of members appointed
by the governor, the CTA is able to bring its political pressure to bear
on determining the commission�s makeup. In September 2011, for instance,
one of Governor Jerry Brown�s appointments to the CTC was Kathy Harris,
who had previously been a CTA lobbyist to the body.
The CTA�s most recent crusade for job security made clear that the union
was prepared to jeopardize the financial future of California�s schools.
Last June, it vigorously pushed (and Governor Brown hastily signed)
Assembly Bill 114, which prevented any teacher layoffs or program cuts
in the coming fiscal year and removed the requirement that school
districts present balanced budget plans. The bill also forced public
schools to prepare budget estimates that didn�t take into account the
state�s downturn in revenues�meaning that schools could budget for
activities even though there wasn�t money to pay for them. Since then,
state officials have forecast that revenues for the 2012 fiscal year
will be $3.2 billion lower than they were when the schools were making
their budgets. Eventually, accommodations to reality will have to be
made�at which time the CTA will, of course, use them to plead hardship.
Such pleas seem impudent coming from the highest-paid teachers in the
nation, with an average annual salary of $68,000. For a bit of
perspective, if two California teachers get married (not an unusual
occurrence) and each makes the average salary, their combined annual
income would be $136,000, nearly $80,000 more than what the state�s
median household pulls down. That�s for an average annual workload of
180 days, only two-thirds of the average total in the private sector.
Don�t forget retirement benefits: after 30 years, a California teacher
may retire with a pension equal to about 75 percent of his working
salary. That pension averages more than $51,000 a year�more than working
teachers earn in more than half the states in the nation. And that�s
just an average; from 2005 to 2011, the number of education employees
pulling down more than $100,000 a year in pensions skyrocketed from 700
to 5,400.
With the state�s economy in tumult, however, prospects for the teachers�
retirement fund look grim. CalSTRS is now officially estimated to have
about $56 billion in liabilities and about 30 years left before it runs
dry, though many outside analysts think that those numbers are too
optimistic. A report by the Legislative Analyst�s Office in November
2011 estimated that restoring full funding to CalSTRS would require
finding an extra $3.9 billion a year for at least 30 years.
If California is to generate the economic growth necessary to mitigate
its coming fiscal reckoning, it will need to retain its historical role
as a leading site for innovation and entrepreneurship. But that won�t be
possible if its next generation of would-be entrepreneurs attends one of
the Golden State�s many mediocre or failing schools. And what little
economic dynamism is left in California will be impeded if the union
gets its way and the state increases its already weighty tax burden.
Meaningful change probably won�t come from elected officials, at least
for now. The CTA�s size, financial resources, and influence with the
state�s regnant Democratic Party are enough to kill most pieces of
hostile legislation. For years, school reformers fantasized about a
transformative figure who could shift the balance of power from the
union through force of charisma and personality, taking his case
directly to the people. Yet when that figure seemed to emerge in
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, even he proved unable to alter the
status quo, with his 2005 ballot initiatives to reform tenure, school
financing, and political spending by unions all going down to decisive
defeat. It�s unlikely that salvation will come from Governor Brown,
either. The man who originally opened the door for the CTA�s collective
bargaining has remained a steadfast ally of the union, firing four
pro-reform members of the state board of education in his first few days
in office and appointing a new group that included Patricia Ann Rucker,
the CTA�s top lobbyist. Brown also avoided including any changes to
CalSTRS in his October announcement of proposed pension reforms,
probably because he had learned Schwarzenegger�s lesson that irking the
CTA can lead to the demise of a broader agenda.
Parents, however, are starting to revolt against CTA orthodoxy. Unlike
elected officials, parents�who want nothing more than a good education
for their kids�are hard for the union to demonize. In early 2010, a Los
Angeles�based nonprofit called Parent Revolution shocked California�s
pundit class by getting the state legislature to pass the nation�s first
�parent trigger� law, which lets parents at failing schools force
districts to undertake certain reforms, including converting schools
into independent charters. The law caps the number of schools eligible
for reform at 75, but if early results are successful, it will become
hard for Californians to avoid comparing thriving charter schools with
failing traditional ones.
The CTA is fighting back, of course. In 2010, when 61 percent of parents
at McKinley Elementary School in the blighted L.A. neighborhood of
Compton opted to pull the trigger, the CTA claimed that �parents were
never given the full picture . . . [or] informed of the great progress
already being made��despite the fact that McKinley�s performance was
ranked beneath nearly all other inner-city schools in the state. Several
Hispanic parents in the district also said that members of the union had
threatened to report them to immigration authorities if they signed the
petition. Eventually, the Compton Unified school board�heavily lobbied
by the CTA�dismissed the petition signatures, with no discussion, as
�insufficient� on a handful of technicalities, such as missing dates and
typos. Though the union�s power had proved too much for the McKinley
parents, an enterprising charter school operator opened two new campuses
in the neighborhood anyway.
Institutions like Locke High School, Green Dot, Parent Revolution, and
the Compton charters are glimmers of hope for California�s public school
system. Despite their inferior resources, they have fought the CTA not
by participating in direct political conflict but by undermining the
union�s moral standing. These organizations reframe the education
question in starkly humanitarian terms: In the California public school
system, are anyone�s interests more important than the students�? It was
a question that the CTA itself might have asked back when teachers
entered the classroom to �teach good citizenship.�
<48c59383-4958-445f...@a8g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote:
> On Jul 17, 1:58�am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> > He plagiarized his work.
> On Jul 17, 1:58�am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>
> Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks stick together . . .
No need to wonder, the answer is obvious - stupidity. We can thank the
teachers' unions for that.
<http://www.city-journal.org/2012/22_2_california-teachers-association.ht
ml>
The Worst Union in America
How the California Teachers Association betrayed the schools and
crippled the state
In 1962, as tensions ran high between school districts and unions across
the country, members of the National Education Association gathered in
Denver for the organization�s 100th annual convention. Among the
speakers was Arthur F. Corey, executive director of the California
Teachers Association (CTA). �The strike as a weapon for teachers is
inappropriate, unprofessional, illegal, outmoded, and ineffective,�
Corey told the crowd. �You can�t go out on an illegal strike one day and
expect to go back to your classroom and teach good citizenship the next.�
Fast-forward nearly 50 years to May 2011, when the CTA�now the single
most powerful special interest in California�organized a �State of
Emergency� week to agitate for higher taxes in one of the most overtaxed
states in the nation. A CTA document suggested dozens of ways for
teachers to protest, including following state legislators incessantly,
attempting to close major transportation arteries, and boycotting
companies, such as Microsoft, that backed education reform. The week�s
centerpiece was an occupation of the state capitol by hundreds of
teachers and student sympathizers from the Cal State University system,
who clogged the building�s hallways and refused to leave. Police
arrested nearly 100 demonstrators for trespassing, including then�CTA
president David Sanchez. The protesting teachers had left their jobs
behind, even though their students were undergoing important statewide
tests that week. With the passage of 50 years, the CTA�s notions of
�good citizenship� had vanished.
So had high-quality public education in California. Seen as a national
leader in the classroom during the 1950s and 1960s, the country�s
largest state is today a laggard, competing with the likes of
Mississippi and Washington, D.C., at the bottom of national rankings.
The Golden State�s education tailspin has been blamed on everything from
class sizes to the property-tax restrictions enforced by Proposition 13
to an influx of Spanish-speaking students. But no portrait of the
system�s downfall would be complete without a depiction of the CTA, a
political behemoth that blocks meaningful education reform, protects
failing and even criminal educators, and inflates teacher pay and
benefits to unsustainable levels.
The CTA began its transformation in September 1975, when Governor Jerry
Brown signed the Rodda Act, which allowed California teachers to bargain
collectively. Within 18 months, 600 of the 1,000 local CTA chapters
moved to collective bargaining. As the union�s power grew, its ranks
nearly doubled, from 170,000 in the late 1970s to approximately 325,000
today. By following the union�s directions and voting in blocs in
low-turnout school-board elections, teachers were able to handpick their
own supervisors�a system that private-sector unionized workers would
envy. Further, the organization that had once forsworn the strike began
taking to the picket lines. Today, the CTA boasts that it has launched
more than 170 strikes in the years since Rodda�s passage.
The CTA�s most important resource, however, isn�t a pool of workers
ready to strike; it�s a fat bank account fed by mandatory dues that can
run more than $1,000 per member. In 2009, the union�s income was more
than $186 million, all of it tax-exempt. The CTA doesn�t need its
members� consent to spend this money on politicking, whether that�s
making campaign contributions or running advocacy campaigns to obstruct
reform. According to figures from the California Fair Political
Practices Commission (a public institution) in 2010, the CTA had spent
more than $210 million over the previous decade on political
campaigning�more than any other donor in the state. In fact, the CTA
outspent the pharmaceutical industry, the oil industry, and the tobacco
industry combined.
All this money has helped the union rack up an imposing number of
victories. The first major win came in 1988, with the passage of
Proposition 98. That initiative compelled California to spend more than
40 percent of its annual budget on education in grades K�12 and
community college. The spending quota eliminated schools� incentive to
get value out of every dollar: since funding was locked in, there was no
need to make things run cost-effectively. Thanks to union influence on
local school boards, much of the extra money�about $450 million a
year�went straight into teachers� salaries. Prop. 98�s malign effects
weren�t limited to education, however: by essentially making public
school funding an entitlement rather than a matter of discretionary
spending, it hastened California�s erosion of fiscal discipline. In
recent years, estimates of mandatory spending�s share of the state�s
budget have run as high as 85 percent, making it highly difficult for
the legislature to confront the severe budget crises of the past decade.
In 1991, the CTA took to the ramparts again to combat Proposition 174, a
ballot initiative that would have made California a national leader in
school choice by giving families universal access to school vouchers.
When initiative supporters began circulating the petitions necessary to
get it onto the ballot, some CTA members tried to intimidate petition
signers physically. The union also encouraged people to sign the
petition multiple times in order to throw the process into chaos. �There
are some proposals so evil that they should never go before the voters,�
explained D. A. Weber, the CTA�s president. One of the consultants who
organized the petitions testified in a court declaration at the time
that people with union ties had offered him $400,000 to refrain from
distributing them. Another claimed that a CTA member had tried to run
him off the road after a debate on school choice.
Weber and his followers weren�t successful in keeping the proposition
off the ballot, but they did manage to delay it for two years, giving
themselves time to organize a counteroffensive. They ran ads, recalls
Ken Khachigian, the former White House speechwriter who headed the Yes
on 174 campaign, �claiming that a witches� coven would be eligible for
the voucher funds and [could] set up a school of its own.� They
threatened to field challengers against political candidates who
supported school choice. They bullied members of the business community
who contributed money to the pro-voucher effort. When In-N-Out Burger
donated $25,000 to support Prop. 174, for instance, the CTA threatened
to press schools to drop contracts with the company.
In 1993, Prop. 174 finally came to a statewide vote. The union had
persuaded March Fong Eu, the CTA-endorsed secretary of state, to alter
the proposition�s heading on the ballot from PARENTAL CHOICE to
EDUCATION VOUCHERS�a change in wording that cost Prop. 174 ten points in
the polls, according to Myron Lieberman in his book The Teacher Unions.
The initiative, which had originally enjoyed 2�1 support among
California voters, managed to garner only a little over 30 percent of
the vote. Prop. 174�s backers had been outspent by a factor of eight,
with the CTA alone dropping $12.5 million on the opposition campaign.
Illustration by Sean Delonas
As the CTA�s power grew, it learned that it could extract policy
concessions simply by employing its aggressive PR machine. In 1996, with
the state�s budget in surplus, the CTA spent $1 million on an ad
campaign touting the virtues of reduced class sizes in kindergarten
through third grade. Feeling the heat from the campaign, Republican
governor Pete Wilson signed a measure providing subsidies to schools
with classes of 20 children or fewer. The program was a disaster: it
failed to improve educational outcomes, and the need to hire many new
teachers quickly, to handle all the smaller classes, reduced the quality
of teachers throughout the state. The program cost California nearly $2
billion per year at its high-water mark, becoming the most expensive
education-reform initiative in the state�s history. But it worked out
well for the CTA, whose ranks and coffers were swelled by all those new
teachers.
The union�s steady supply of cash allowed it to continue its quest for
political dominance unabated. In 1998, it spent nearly $7 million to
defeat Proposition 8�which would have used student performance as a
criterion for teacher reviews and would have required educators to pass
credentialing examinations in their disciplines�and more than $2 million
in a failed attempt to block Proposition 227, which eliminated bilingual
education in public schools. In 2002, the union spent $26 million to
defeat Proposition 38, another school voucher proposal. And in 2005,
with a special election called by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
looming, the CTA came up with a colossal $58 million�even going so far
as to mortgage its Sacramento headquarters�to defeat initiatives that
would have capped the growth of state spending, made it easier to fire
underperforming teachers, and ensured �paycheck protection,� which
compels unions to get their members� consent before using dues for
political purposes. (A new paycheck-protection measure will appear on
the November 2012 ballot.)
Cannily, the CTA also funds a wide array of liberal causes unrelated to
education, with the goal of spreading around enough cash to prevent
dissent from the Left. Among these causes: implementing a single-payer
health-care system in California, blocking photo-identification
requirements for voters, and limiting restraints on the government�s
power of eminent domain. The CTA was the single biggest financial
opponent of another Proposition 8, the controversial 2008 proposal to
ban gay marriage, ponying up $1.3 million to fight an initiative that
eventually won 52.2 percent of the vote. The union has also become the
biggest donor to the California Democratic Party. From 2003 to 2012, the
CTA spent nearly $102 million on political contributions; 0.08 percent
of that money went to Republicans.
At the same time that the union was becoming the largest financial force
in California politics, it was developing an equally powerful ground
game, stifling reform efforts at the local level. Consider the case of
Locke High School in the poverty-stricken Los Angeles neighborhood of
Watts. Founded in response to the area�s 1967 riots, Locke was intended
to provide a quality education to the neighborhood�s almost universally
minority students. For years, it failed: in 2006, with a student body
that was 65 percent Hispanic and 35 percent African-American, the school
sent just 5 percent of its graduates to four-year colleges, and the
dropout rate was nearly 51 percent.
Shortly before Locke reached this nadir, the school hired a
reform-minded principal, Frank Wells, who was determined to revive the
school�s fortunes. Just a few days after he arrived, a group of rival
gangs got into a dust-up; Wells expelled 80 of the students involved. In
the new atmosphere of discipline, Locke dropped �from first in the
number of campus crime reports in LAUSD [Los Angeles Unified School
District] to thirteenth,� writes Donna Foote in Relentless Pursuit: A
Year in the Trenches with Teach for America. Test scores and college
acceptance also began to rise, Foote reports.
But trouble arose with the union when Wells began requiring Locke
teachers to present weekly lesson plans. The local CTA affiliate�United
Teachers Los Angeles�filed a grievance against him and was soon urging
his removal. The last straw was Wells�s effort to convert Locke into an
independent charter school, where teachers would operate under severely
restricted union contracts. In May 2007, the district removed Wells from
his job. He was escorted from his office by three police officers and an
associate superintendent of schools, all on the basis of union
allegations that he had let teachers use classroom time to sign a
petition to turn Locke into a charter. Wells called the allegations �a
total fabrication,� and the signature gatherers backed him up. The LAUSD
reassigned him to a district office, where he was paid $600 a day to sit
in a cubicle and do nothing.
Luckily for Locke students, the union�s rearguard action came too late.
In 2007, the Los Angeles Board of Education voted 5�2 to hand Locke High
School to Green Dot, a charter school operator. Four years later, as the
final class of Locke students who had attended the school prior to its
transformation received their diplomas, the school�s graduation rate was
68 percent, and over 56 percent of Locke graduates were headed for
higher education.
One of the most noticeable changes at Locke has ramifications statewide:
when Green Dot took over, it required all teachers to reapply for their
jobs. It hired back only about one-third of them. That approach is
unimaginable in the rest of the state�s public schools, where a teaching
job is essentially a lifetime sinecure. A tiny 0.03 percent of
California teachers are dismissed after three or more years on the job.
In the past decade, the LAUSD�home to 33,000 teachers�has dismissed only
four. Even when teachers are fired, it�s seldom because of their
classroom performance: a 2009 expos� by the Los Angeles Times found that
only 20 percent of successful dismissals in the state had anything to do
with teaching ability. Most terminations involved teachers behaving
either obscenely or criminally. The National Council on Teacher Quality,
a Washington-based education-reform organization, gave California a
D-minus on its teacher-firing policies in its 2010 national report card.
Responsibility for this sorry situation goes largely to the CTA, which
has won concessions that make firing a teacher so difficult that
educators can usually keep their jobs for any offense that doesn�t cross
into outright criminality. With the cost of the proceedings regularly
running near half a million dollars, many districts choose to shuffle
problem employees around rather than try to fire them.
Even outright offenses are no guarantee of removal, thanks to CTA
influence. When a fired teacher appeals his case beyond the school
board, it goes to the Commission on Professional Competence�two of whose
three members are also teachers, one of them chosen by the educator
whose case is being heard. The CTA has stacked this process as well by
bargaining to require evidentiary standards equal to those used in
civil-court procedures and coaching the teachers on the panels. One
veteran school-district lawyer calls the appeals process �one of the
most complicated civil legal matters anywhere.� As the Times noted, �The
district wanted to fire a high school teacher who kept a stash of
pornography, marijuana and vials with cocaine residue at school, but
[the Commission on Professional Competence] balked, suggesting that
firing was too harsh.� The commission was also the reason that, as the
newspaper continued, the district was �unsuccessful in firing a male
middle school teacher spotted lying on top of a female colleague in the
metal shop�; the district had failed to �prove that the two were having
sex.�
Another regulatory body dominated by CTA influence is the state�s
Commission on Teacher Credentialing (CTC), the institution responsible
for removing the credentials of misbehaving teachers. A report released
in 2011 by California state auditor Elaine Howle found that the
commission had a backlog of approximately 12,600 cases, with responses
sometimes taking as long as three years. Because the CTC�which was
created by an act sponsored by the CTA�is made up of members appointed
by the governor, the CTA is able to bring its political pressure to bear
on determining the commission�s makeup. In September 2011, for instance,
one of Governor Jerry Brown�s appointments to the CTC was Kathy Harris,
who had previously been a CTA lobbyist to the body.
The CTA�s most recent crusade for job security made clear that the union
was prepared to jeopardize the financial future of California�s schools.
Last June, it vigorously pushed (and Governor Brown hastily signed)
Assembly Bill 114, which prevented any teacher layoffs or program cuts
in the coming fiscal year and removed the requirement that school
districts present balanced budget plans. The bill also forced public
schools to prepare budget estimates that didn�t take into account the
state�s downturn in revenues�meaning that schools could budget for
activities even though there wasn�t money to pay for them. Since then,
state officials have forecast that revenues for the 2012 fiscal year
will be $3.2 billion lower than they were when the schools were making
their budgets. Eventually, accommodations to reality will have to be
made�at which time the CTA will, of course, use them to plead hardship.
Such pleas seem impudent coming from the highest-paid teachers in the
nation, with an average annual salary of $68,000. For a bit of
perspective, if two California teachers get married (not an unusual
occurrence) and each makes the average salary, their combined annual
income would be $136,000, nearly $80,000 more than what the state�s
median household pulls down. That�s for an average annual workload of
180 days, only two-thirds of the average total in the private sector.
Don�t forget retirement benefits: after 30 years, a California teacher
may retire with a pension equal to about 75 percent of his working
salary. That pension averages more than $51,000 a year�more than working
teachers earn in more than half the states in the nation. And that�s
just an average; from 2005 to 2011, the number of education employees
pulling down more than $100,000 a year in pensions skyrocketed from 700
to 5,400.
With the state�s economy in tumult, however, prospects for the teachers�
retirement fund look grim. CalSTRS is now officially estimated to have
about $56 billion in liabilities and about 30 years left before it runs
dry, though many outside analysts think that those numbers are too
optimistic. A report by the Legislative Analyst�s Office in November
2011 estimated that restoring full funding to CalSTRS would require
finding an extra $3.9 billion a year for at least 30 years.
If California is to generate the economic growth necessary to mitigate
its coming fiscal reckoning, it will need to retain its historical role
as a leading site for innovation and entrepreneurship. But that won�t be
possible if its next generation of would-be entrepreneurs attends one of
the Golden State�s many mediocre or failing schools. And what little
economic dynamism is left in California will be impeded if the union
gets its way and the state increases its already weighty tax burden.
Meaningful change probably won�t come from elected officials, at least
for now. The CTA�s size, financial resources, and influence with the
state�s regnant Democratic Party are enough to kill most pieces of
hostile legislation. For years, school reformers fantasized about a
transformative figure who could shift the balance of power from the
union through force of charisma and personality, taking his case
directly to the people. Yet when that figure seemed to emerge in
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, even he proved unable to alter the
status quo, with his 2005 ballot initiatives to reform tenure, school
financing, and political spending by unions all going down to decisive
defeat. It�s unlikely that salvation will come from Governor Brown,
either. The man who originally opened the door for the CTA�s collective
bargaining has remained a steadfast ally of the union, firing four
pro-reform members of the state board of education in his first few days
in office and appointing a new group that included Patricia Ann Rucker,
the CTA�s top lobbyist. Brown also avoided including any changes to
CalSTRS in his October announcement of proposed pension reforms,
probably because he had learned Schwarzenegger�s lesson that irking the
CTA can lead to the demise of a broader agenda.
Parents, however, are starting to revolt against CTA orthodoxy. Unlike
elected officials, parents�who want nothing more than a good education
for their kids�are hard for the union to demonize. In early 2010, a Los
Angeles�based nonprofit called Parent Revolution shocked California�s
pundit class by getting the state legislature to pass the nation�s first
�parent trigger� law, which lets parents at failing schools force
districts to undertake certain reforms, including converting schools
into independent charters. The law caps the number of schools eligible
for reform at 75, but if early results are successful, it will become
hard for Californians to avoid comparing thriving charter schools with
failing traditional ones.
The CTA is fighting back, of course. In 2010, when 61 percent of parents
at McKinley Elementary School in the blighted L.A. neighborhood of
Compton opted to pull the trigger, the CTA claimed that �parents were
never given the full picture . . . [or] informed of the great progress
already being made��despite the fact that McKinley�s performance was
ranked beneath nearly all other inner-city schools in the state. Several
Hispanic parents in the district also said that members of the union had
threatened to report them to immigration authorities if they signed the
petition. Eventually, the Compton Unified school board�heavily lobbied
by the CTA�dismissed the petition signatures, with no discussion, as
�insufficient� on a handful of technicalities, such as missing dates and
typos. Though the union�s power had proved too much for the McKinley
parents, an enterprising charter school operator opened two new campuses
in the neighborhood anyway.
Institutions like Locke High School, Green Dot, Parent Revolution, and
the Compton charters are glimmers of hope for California�s public school
system. Despite their inferior resources, they have fought the CTA not
by participating in direct political conflict but by undermining the
union�s moral standing. These organizations reframe the education
question in starkly humanitarian terms: In the California public school
system, are anyone�s interests more important than the students�? It was
a question that the CTA itself might have asked back when teachers
entered the classroom to �teach good citizenship.�
Harold Burton
Jul 17, 2012, 7:50:36 PM7/17/12
to
In article
<7cd135d2-9e55-417d...@fi17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Of course none of them are from liberals, you've purposely ignored the
many hate messages from liberals.
Leftards, batshit crazy and dogshit stupid, every single last one of you.
BTW Ramon, why do you like to spam newsqroups like
rec.crafts.metalworking with off-topic political rants? Isn't that a
form of abuse? So much for liberals and their concern for social
justice.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
<7cd135d2-9e55-417d...@fi17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
many hate messages from liberals.
Leftards, batshit crazy and dogshit stupid, every single last one of you.
BTW Ramon, why do you like to spam newsqroups like
rec.crafts.metalworking with off-topic political rants? Isn't that a
form of abuse? So much for liberals and their concern for social
justice.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Harold Burton
Jul 17, 2012, 7:52:32 PM7/17/12
to
In article
<ed616032-0d54-44e2...@m3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Too_Many_Drools <too_man...@yahoo.com> blathered:
> On Jul 17, 3:36�pm, Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 17, 3:12�pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
> > > >On Jul 17, 1:58�am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> > > > > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> > > > > He plagiarized his work.
> >
> > > >Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
> > > >stick together against your hatred.
> >
> > > More racist spew from Ramon.
> >
> > Klaus:
> >
> > Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn" (a fellow
> > conservative of yours). Let's say that I am trying to decide which
> > party to vote for.
> >
> > Please take a position on the message from Mr. azjohn, would you???
> >
> > I can provide dozen, if not hundreds of similar messages, and none of
> > them are from liberals.
Of course you can Ramey, you've edited out all the hate messages from
leftards.
> Well said.
Stupidly said, actually, but no surprise that you couldn't figure that
out.
<ed616032-0d54-44e2...@m3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Too_Many_Drools <too_man...@yahoo.com> blathered:
> On Jul 17, 3:36�pm, Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 17, 3:12�pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
> > > >On Jul 17, 1:58�am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> > > > > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> > > > > He plagiarized his work.
> >
> > > >Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
> > > >stick together against your hatred.
> >
> > > More racist spew from Ramon.
> >
> > Klaus:
> >
> > Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn" (a fellow
> > conservative of yours). Let's say that I am trying to decide which
> > party to vote for.
> >
> > Please take a position on the message from Mr. azjohn, would you???
> >
> > I can provide dozen, if not hundreds of similar messages, and none of
> > them are from liberals.
leftards.
> Well said.
Stupidly said, actually, but no surprise that you couldn't figure that
out.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 17, 2012, 9:38:36 PM7/17/12
to
>deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
><klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>>Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
>>>just supposed to let them.
>>
>>here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>>
>>
>>“Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
>>line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
>>Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
>
>Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
Starting with your suicide would be a good choice.
>On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
><klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>
>>>On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>><too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>>>>
>>>On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>><too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>>>>
>>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>>>>>
>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>>>
>>>>If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>>>Presidental candidate he had better.
>>>>
>>>>Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>>>>voting for him.
>>>>
>>>>Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>>>
>>>The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
>>>>>
>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>>>
>>>>If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>>>Presidental candidate he had better.
>>>>
>>>>Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>>>>voting for him.
>>>>
>>>>Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>>>
>>>Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
>>>just supposed to let them.
>>
>>here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>>
>>
>>“Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
>>line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
>>Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
>
>Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
Starting with your suicide would be a good choice.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 17, 2012, 9:39:53 PM7/17/12
to
>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
felon: A person who has been convicted of a felony.
But you only have one, lonely brain cell.
[chuckle\
>How do you know that he is not a felon..
If you had two brain cells to rub together you would know a felon is
felon: A person who has been convicted of a felony.
But you only have one, lonely brain cell.
[chuckle\
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 17, 2012, 9:40:32 PM7/17/12
to
>Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>On Jul 17, 3:12 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
you racist dog.
>On Jul 17, 3:12 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>> >On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>> > > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>> > > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>> > > He plagiarized his work.
>>
>> >Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
>> >stick together against your hatred.
>>
>> More racist spew from Ramon.
>
>Klaus:
>
>Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn"
Ramon. Fuck off. Try responding honestly to what's in front of you,
>>
>> >Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
>> >stick together against your hatred.
>>
>> More racist spew from Ramon.
>
>Klaus:
>
>Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn"
you racist dog.
Scout
Jul 17, 2012, 9:56:41 PM7/17/12
to
"Ramon F Herrera" <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in message
news:666462ad-9365-4d7b...@z19g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 17, 4:33 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Probably. Except I look at it coming from both sides.
> > You seem to look in only one direction.
>
> Hold it right there!!
>
> I am white AND Hispanic (while you are not!) and am therefore offended
> by any attacks against those groups. I am in fact, pissed at attacks
> to ANY group based on IMMUTABLE (inborn) characteristics: race,
> ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation. Even religion which is
> mutable.
>
> Having said that...
You can explain how being opposed to illegal immigration, as opposed to
> wrote:
>
> > Probably. Except I look at it coming from both sides.
> > You seem to look in only one direction.
>
> Hold it right there!!
>
> I am white AND Hispanic (while you are not!) and am therefore offended
> by any attacks against those groups. I am in fact, pissed at attacks
> to ANY group based on IMMUTABLE (inborn) characteristics: race,
> ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation. Even religion which is
> mutable.
>
> Having said that...
legal immigration, is an attack based on race, ethnicity, national origin,
and/or sexual orientation.
Then when you fail to show that it is any of these, you can explain why you
always assert that opposition to illegal immigration is a matter of racism.
If I'm opposed to murder is that racist?
If I'm opposed to insurance fraud is that racist?
Why is being opposed to those violating this law that suddenly makes one
racist according to you.
Oh, and it's interesting how you start off by making an issue of your race
and ethnicity. Seems you feel that those are most critical elements for
people to know about you rather than your character, values, views, etc.
Scout
Jul 17, 2012, 9:57:18 PM7/17/12
to
"Ramon F Herrera" <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in message
news:573e1c6a-d957-4733...@q29g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jul 17, 2012, 9:59:31 PM7/17/12
to
"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> fired this volley in
news:ju5556$9p4$1...@dont-email.me:
> Seems you feel that those are most critical elements for
> people to know about you rather than your character, values, views, etc.
>
>
It's possible that he does not _have_ any of those other things by which to
characterize himself. It may be that his race is his _only_
"discriminating" quality.
LLoyd
news:ju5556$9p4$1...@dont-email.me:
> Seems you feel that those are most critical elements for
> people to know about you rather than your character, values, views, etc.
>
>
characterize himself. It may be that his race is his _only_
"discriminating" quality.
LLoyd
RD Sandman
Jul 18, 2012, 1:51:04 PM7/18/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:573e1c6a-d957-4733-
8f45-c1a...@q29g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 5:04 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > You have absolutely no idea of what I am or what I am not.
> > Quit blowing smoke.
>
> That can be solved VERY easily (like Romney's tax returns).
And like Romney, I have no need to.
> You are NOT dual-ethnicity.
Another statement for which you don't know the truth.
8f45-c1a...@q29g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 5:04 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > You have absolutely no idea of what I am or what I am not.
> > Quit blowing smoke.
>
> That can be solved VERY easily (like Romney's tax returns).
> You are NOT dual-ethnicity.
Another statement for which you don't know the truth.
RD Sandman
Jul 18, 2012, 1:55:25 PM7/18/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:9a08ec44-557f-42cc-
b9ee-697...@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
>
> On Jul 17, 5:05 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp?
> > They are both duly elected presidents of the country.
>
> You just answered your own question.
I don't call either one a chimp. Apparently, you do and have no problem
calling Bush one.
> When you step on a soap box, you risk receiving accolades AND rotten
> tomatoes. That is THE price you pay.
And ignorance is the price you pay, Ramon. You try to portray yourself
as a good guy completely above the fray but when the target is a
conservative, you lower yourself as much into the dirt as those you rail
against.
b9ee-697...@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
>
> On Jul 17, 5:05 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp?
> > They are both duly elected presidents of the country.
>
> You just answered your own question.
calling Bush one.
> When you step on a soap box, you risk receiving accolades AND rotten
> tomatoes. That is THE price you pay.
as a good guy completely above the fray but when the target is a
conservative, you lower yourself as much into the dirt as those you rail
against.
RD Sandman
Jul 18, 2012, 1:57:58 PM7/18/12
to
Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:b7c05ff2-f8dd-498d-
af9c-721...@l5g2000vbo.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 5:05 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp?
> > They are both duly elected presidents of the country.
>
> I wonder whether you are aware that you just called for the
> elimination of SNL, political cartoons, elephants and donkeys that can
> talk, etc.
Actually, no, I didn't. Donkeys and Elephants are symbols the parties
took for themselves. I doubt Bush volunteered to be called a chimp.
What is surprising is that you can't tell the difference.
> Calling Bush "a chimp" is legally and morally correct.
> Calling Obama "a chimp" is legally correct.
Why call either one of them a chimp? What makes you think that calling
Bush a chimp is "morally" correct while in Obama's case it is not?
af9c-721...@l5g2000vbo.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 17, 5:05 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp?
> > They are both duly elected presidents of the country.
>
> I wonder whether you are aware that you just called for the
> elimination of SNL, political cartoons, elephants and donkeys that can
> talk, etc.
took for themselves. I doubt Bush volunteered to be called a chimp.
What is surprising is that you can't tell the difference.
> Calling Bush "a chimp" is legally and morally correct.
> Calling Obama "a chimp" is legally correct.
Bush a chimp is "morally" correct while in Obama's case it is not?
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 18, 2012, 2:10:20 PM7/18/12
to
On Jul 17, 8:40 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
you.
TMT
wrote:
> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
> >On Jul 17, 3:12 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
> >wrote:
> >> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
> >> >On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> >> > > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> >> > > He plagiarized his work.
>
> >> >Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
> >> >stick together against your hatred.
>
> >> More racist spew from Ramon.
>
> >Klaus:
>
> >Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn"
>
> Ramon. Fuck off. Try responding honestly to what's in front of you,
> you racist dog.- Hide quoted text -
> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
> >On Jul 17, 3:12 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
> >wrote:
> >> >Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
> >> >On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> >> > > Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
> >> > > He plagiarized his work.
>
> >> >Then you wonder why Blacks and Latino folks (plus Asians, Jews, Gays)
> >> >stick together against your hatred.
>
> >> More racist spew from Ramon.
>
> >Klaus:
>
> >Do me a favor: Scroll down a read the post by "azjohn"
>
> Ramon. Fuck off. Try responding honestly to what's in front of you,
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL...sounds like Ramon is a honest intelligent decent person...unlike
> - Show quoted text -
you.
TMT
Michael A. Terrell
Jul 18, 2012, 3:44:58 PM7/18/12
to
RD Sandman wrote:
>
> Ramon F Herrera <gopo...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:9a08ec44-557f-42cc-
> b9ee-697...@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
>
> >
> > On Jul 17, 5:05 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > And just what reason is there to call either one a chimp?
> > > They are both duly elected presidents of the country.
> >
> > You just answered your own question.
>
> I don't call either one a chimp. Apparently, you do and have no problem
> calling Bush one.
>
> > When you step on a soap box, you risk receiving accolades AND rotten
> > tomatoes. That is THE price you pay.
>
> And ignorance is the price you pay, Ramon. You try to portray yourself
> as a good guy completely above the fray but when the target is a
> conservative, you lower yourself as much into the dirt as those you rail
> against.
it's OK to call Bush a chimp. ;-)
Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E
Jul 18, 2012, 3:54:31 PM7/18/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sounds like you to want to eat Ramon's chalupa, Too_Many_Stools
> - Show quoted text -
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 18, 2012, 4:06:09 PM7/18/12
to
On Jul 18, 12:51 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:573e1c6a-d957-4733-
> 8f45-c1ac43dec...@q29g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
released.
Otherwise I and millions of American voters will wonder....WHAT IS
MITT HIDING?...and not vote for him.
So...does Romney want a shot at the Presidency or not?
He already is a proven liar by the Bain SEC signature issue.
TMT
wrote:
> Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:573e1c6a-d957-4733-
> 8f45-c1ac43dec...@q29g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Jul 17, 5:04 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > You have absolutely no idea of what I am or what I am not.
> > > Quit blowing smoke.
>
> > That can be solved VERY easily (like Romney's tax returns).
>
> And like Romney, I have no need to.
>
> > You are NOT dual-ethnicity.
>
> Another statement for which you don't know the truth.
>
> --
>
> If you hear me yell, "Eject! Eject! Eject!"
> The last two will be echoes......
>
> If you stop to ask "Why?" You will be talking to
> yourself because you just became the pilot.
>
> Sleep well, tonight.....
LOL...if Romney wants to be President, the tax returns will need to be
> > On Jul 17, 5:04 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > You have absolutely no idea of what I am or what I am not.
> > > Quit blowing smoke.
>
> > That can be solved VERY easily (like Romney's tax returns).
>
> And like Romney, I have no need to.
>
> > You are NOT dual-ethnicity.
>
> Another statement for which you don't know the truth.
>
> --
>
> If you hear me yell, "Eject! Eject! Eject!"
> The last two will be echoes......
>
> If you stop to ask "Why?" You will be talking to
> yourself because you just became the pilot.
>
> Sleep well, tonight.....
released.
Otherwise I and millions of American voters will wonder....WHAT IS
MITT HIDING?...and not vote for him.
So...does Romney want a shot at the Presidency or not?
He already is a proven liar by the Bain SEC signature issue.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 18, 2012, 4:08:26 PM7/18/12
to
On Jul 18, 2:54 pm, "Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E"
> Sounds like you to want to eat Ramon's chalupa, Too_Many_Stools- Hide quoted text -
Now how about getting back on subject...WHY WON'T MITT RELEASE HIS TAX
RETURNS?
WHAT IS HE HIDING?
TMT
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL..sounds like you already have.
> - Show quoted text -
Now how about getting back on subject...WHY WON'T MITT RELEASE HIS TAX
RETURNS?
WHAT IS HE HIDING?
TMT
Harold Burton
Jul 18, 2012, 6:10:03 PM7/18/12
to
In article
<6342c031-7173-4a3d...@z11g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
he holds off for a while longer.
snicker
<6342c031-7173-4a3d...@z11g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 18, 12:51�pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:573e1c6a-d957-4733-
> > 8f45-c1ac43dec...@q29g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > > On Jul 17, 5:04�pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > You have absolutely no idea of what I am or what I am not.
> > > > Quit blowing smoke.
> >
> > > That can be solved VERY easily (like Romney's tax returns).
> >
> > And like Romney, I have no need to.
> >
> > > You are NOT dual-ethnicity.
> >
> > Another statement for which you don't know the truth.
> >
> > --
> >
> > If you hear me yell, "Eject! �Eject! �Eject!"
> > The last two will be echoes......
> >
> > If you stop to ask "Why?" You will be talking to
> > yourself because you just became the pilot.
> >
> > Sleep well, tonight.....
>
> LOL...if Romney wants to be President, the tax returns will need to be
> released.
And they will be, but for now it's fun watching you whining, so I hope
> On Jul 18, 12:51�pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > Ramon F Herrera <gopos...@jonjay.com> wrote in news:573e1c6a-d957-4733-
> > 8f45-c1ac43dec...@q29g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > > On Jul 17, 5:04�pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > You have absolutely no idea of what I am or what I am not.
> > > > Quit blowing smoke.
> >
> > > That can be solved VERY easily (like Romney's tax returns).
> >
> > And like Romney, I have no need to.
> >
> > > You are NOT dual-ethnicity.
> >
> > Another statement for which you don't know the truth.
> >
> > --
> >
> > If you hear me yell, "Eject! �Eject! �Eject!"
> > The last two will be echoes......
> >
> > If you stop to ask "Why?" You will be talking to
> > yourself because you just became the pilot.
> >
> > Sleep well, tonight.....
>
> LOL...if Romney wants to be President, the tax returns will need to be
> released.
he holds off for a while longer.
snicker
Harold Burton
Jul 18, 2012, 6:19:10 PM7/18/12
to
In article
<6342c031-7173-4a3d...@z11g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Too_Many_Drools <too_man...@yahoo.com> blathered:
> LOL...if Romney wants to be President, the tax returns will need to be
> released.
>
> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will wonder....WHAT IS
> MITT HIDING?...and not vote for him.
>
> So...does Romney want a shot at the Presidency or not?
>
> He already is a proven liar by the Bain SEC signature issue.
LOL...if Hussein wants to be President, the transcripts will need to be
So...does Hussein want a shot at the Presidency or not?
He already is a proven liar by not shutting down Gitmo as he promised.
snicker
<6342c031-7173-4a3d...@z11g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Too_Many_Drools <too_man...@yahoo.com> blathered:
> LOL...if Romney wants to be President, the tax returns will need to be
> released.
>
> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will wonder....WHAT IS
> MITT HIDING?...and not vote for him.
>
> So...does Romney want a shot at the Presidency or not?
>
> He already is a proven liar by the Bain SEC signature issue.
released.
Otherwise I and millions of American voters will wonder....WHAT IS
THE CURRENT RESIDENT HIDING?...and not vote for him.
Otherwise I and millions of American voters will wonder....WHAT IS
So...does Hussein want a shot at the Presidency or not?
He already is a proven liar by not shutting down Gitmo as he promised.
snicker
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 18, 2012, 8:17:41 PM7/18/12
to
>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
That's because you have a problem with "reading compression."
[chuckle]
______
"Your reading compression sucks."
— mrLookout, Tue, March 22, 2011
[chuckle]
______
"Your reading compression sucks."
— mrLookout, Tue, March 22, 2011
Hawke
Jul 18, 2012, 8:27:44 PM7/18/12
to
On 7/17/2012 1:29 PM, deep wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> <klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>
>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>> <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> <klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>
>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>> <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>>>>
>>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>>>>>
>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>>>
>>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>>>
>>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>>>> voting for him.
>>>>
>>>> voting for him.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>>>
>>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
>>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
>>> just supposed to let them.
>>
>> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>>
>>
>> �Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
>>>
>>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
>>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
>>> just supposed to let them.
>>
>> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>>
>>
>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
>> Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
>
> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>
The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>
Hawke
Hawke
Jul 18, 2012, 8:29:53 PM7/18/12
to
On 7/17/2012 1:06 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Jul 17, 2:57 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
>
They'd vote for a homosexual serial killer as long as he was a
republican. They would say with a straight face, at least I'd rather
have him than Obama.
Hawke
> On Jul 17, 2:57 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>
>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>>
>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>> didn't.
>>
>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>
>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>>
>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>
>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>>
>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>> didn't.
>>
>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>
>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>>
>> Too late. He will be nominated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>>> voting for him.
>>
>>> voting for him.
>>
>> Did you get your voting rights reinstated?
>
> LOL...nominated doesn't mean elected to the office of President.
>
>
> LOL...nominated doesn't mean elected to the office of President.
>
> And it is an interesting insight into the Repubulican Party that they
> would nominate a possilble felon to be their candidate for President.
>
> would nominate a possilble felon to be their candidate for President.
>
> You folks really are desperate, aren't you?
>
> TMT
>
>
They'd vote for a homosexual serial killer as long as he was a
republican. They would say with a straight face, at least I'd rather
have him than Obama.
Hawke
Harold Burton
Jul 18, 2012, 10:55:33 PM7/18/12
to
In article
<7096e29f-af71-4f54...@b20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
Too_Many_Drools <too_man...@yahoo.com> blathered:
> LOL...sounds like Ramon is a honest intelligent decent person...
<7096e29f-af71-4f54...@b20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
Too_Many_Drools <too_man...@yahoo.com> blathered:
> LOL...sounds like Ramon is a honest intelligent decent person...
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 18, 2012, 11:49:59 PM7/18/12
to
On Jul 18, 7:27 pm, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
> On 7/17/2012 1:29 PM, deep wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> > <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 7/17/2012 1:29 PM, deep wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>
> >>> deep <d...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>
> >>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
> >>> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> >>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>
> >>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>
> >>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
> >>>>> didn't.
>
> >>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>
> >>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
> >>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>
> >>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
> >>>> voting for him.
>
> >>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>
> >>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
> >>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
> >>> just supposed to let them.
>
> >> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>
> >> “Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
> >>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
> >>> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> >>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>
> >>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>
> >>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
> >>>>> didn't.
>
> >>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>
> >>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
> >>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>
> >>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
> >>>> voting for him.
>
> >>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>
> >>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
> >>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
> >>> just supposed to let them.
>
> >> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>
> >> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
> >> Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn548tmj6oc97uj2...@4ax.com>
>
> > Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>
> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
> Hawke- Hide quoted text -
> > Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>
> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
And right wingers are usually the ones in front of excution squads
> - Show quoted text -
after the dust settles.
TMT
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jul 19, 2012, 7:15:02 AM7/19/12
to
>And right wingers are usually the ones in front of excution squads
>after the dust settles.
“If you people don't fucking wise up soon we are going to have to
>after the dust settles.
start shooting you."
-Deep Dudu
Message-ID: <v1e8r6pijl5btcjas...@4ax.com>
“Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
Oglethorpe
Jul 19, 2012, 8:44:35 PM7/19/12
to
"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:ju7ka0$qke$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On 7/17/2012 1:29 PM, deep wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>> <klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>>> <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>>>>
>>>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>>>>> voting for him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>>>>
>>>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
>>>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
>>>> just supposed to let them.
>>>
>>> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>>>
>>>
>>> �Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>> <klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>>> <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>>>>
>>>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>>>>> voting for him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>>>>
>>>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
>>>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
>>>> just supposed to let them.
>>>
>>> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>>>
>>>
>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
>>> Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
>>
>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>>
>
> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
>
No CITES.
>>
>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>>
>
> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
>
Too_Many_Tools
Jul 19, 2012, 7:19:09 PM7/19/12
to
> Hawke- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I would say that they would vote for a rock as long as it is
>
> - Show quoted text -
Republican.
George Bush was their latest attempt to achieve that goal.
TMT
Message has been deleted
Hawke
Jul 20, 2012, 3:45:00 PM7/20/12
to
On 7/19/2012 5:44 PM, Oglethorpe wrote:
> "Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
> news:ju7ka0$qke$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> On 7/17/2012 1:29 PM, deep wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> <klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>>>> <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>>>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>>>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>>>>>> voting for him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>>>>>
>>>>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
>>>>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
>>>>> just supposed to let them.
>>>>
>>>> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> �Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
> "Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
> news:ju7ka0$qke$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> On 7/17/2012 1:29 PM, deep wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> <klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> deep <de...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>>>> <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
>>>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
>>>>>>> didn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
>>>>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
>>>>>> voting for him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>>>>>
>>>>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
>>>>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
>>>>> just supposed to let them.
>>>>
>>>> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
>>>> Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
>>>
>>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>>>
>>
>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>>
>>
>
> No CITES.
That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
>>>
>>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>>>
>>
>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>>
>>
>
> No CITES.
progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
Hawke
PaxPerPoten
Jul 20, 2012, 4:55:40 PM7/20/12
to
>
Alim Nassor
Jul 20, 2012, 7:31:34 PM7/20/12
to
On Jul 20, 2:45 pm, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
> On 7/19/2012 5:44 PM, Oglethorpe wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Hawke" <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
> On 7/19/2012 5:44 PM, Oglethorpe wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >news:ju7ka0$qke$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >> On 7/17/2012 1:29 PM, deep wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> >>> <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On 7/17/2012 1:29 PM, deep wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:10:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>
> >>>>> deep <d...@dudu.org> wrote in talk.politics.guns :
>
> >>>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
> >>>>> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>
> >>>>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>
> >>>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
> >>>>>>> didn't.
>
> >>>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>
> >>>>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
> >>>>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>
> >>>>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
> >>>>>> voting for him.
>
> >>>>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>
> >>>>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
> >>>>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
> >>>>> just supposed to let them.
>
> >>>> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>
> >>>> “Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
> >>>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
> >>>>> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On Jul 17, 1:58 am, "Bill Gaffney" <bgaff...@earthlink.nut> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Maybe Obama got his "degree" the same way Martin Luther King did.
>
> >>>>>>> He palgiarized his work.
>
> >>>>>>> At least Romney filed his tax returns. All of Obama's czars
> >>>>>>> didn't.
>
> >>>>>>> Laugh...laugh...laugh!
>
> >>>>>> If "Flip Flop" Mitt wants to be seriously considered as a possible
> >>>>>> Presidental candidate he had better.
>
> >>>>>> Otherwise I and millions of American voters will not even consider
> >>>>>> voting for him.
>
> >>>>>> Isn't freedom of choice a bitch for a conservative?
>
> >>>>> The conservative's idea of freedom of choice means that wealthy
> >>>>> Christian white men get to do whatever they want and everyone else is
> >>>>> just supposed to let them.
>
> >>>> here's the leftist's idea of freedom......
>
> >>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
> >>>> Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn548tmj6oc97uj2...@4ax.com>
>
> >>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>
> >> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
> > No CITES.
>
> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>
> Hawke
You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
> >>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>
> >> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
> > No CITES.
>
> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>
> Hawke
famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
both famous right wingers?
Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
famous Left Wingers, no?
Jim Wilkins
Jul 20, 2012, 10:05:39 PM7/20/12
to
"Alim Nassor" <alimn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f442fe3-e64b-45ce-bd27-
>
> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up
> of
> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is
> left
> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death
> squads.
>
> Hawke
You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
both famous right wingers?
Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up
> of
> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is
> left
> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death
> squads.
>
> Hawke
You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
both famous right wingers?
Hawke
Jul 21, 2012, 1:55:01 PM7/21/12
to
eliminating me is much harder to do than to say.
Hawke
Hawke
Jul 21, 2012, 2:24:40 PM7/21/12
to
>>>>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
>>>>>> Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn548tmj6oc97uj2...@4ax.com>
>>
>>>>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>>
>>>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>>
>>> No CITES.
>>
>> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
>> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
>> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
> famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
> famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
> both famous right wingers?
>
> Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
> famous Left Wingers, no?
Funny that you can remember all the left wing death squads but not any
>>
>>>>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>>
>>>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>>
>>> No CITES.
>>
>> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
>> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
>> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
> famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
> famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
> both famous right wingers?
>
> Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
> famous Left Wingers, no?
of the right wing ones. There are more on the right than on the left.
But you're counting authoritarian dictators as being "left". They're
not. I said you won't find any progressive death squads. You going to
call Castro, Pol Pot, and Mao, progressives? I don't think so. Not by a
country mile. Those are dictatorships and if anything they look a lot
more like right wingers than progressives.
Hawke
David R. Birch
Jul 21, 2012, 2:45:56 PM7/21/12
to
David
Jim Yanik
Jul 21, 2012, 2:49:31 PM7/21/12
to
"David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> wrote in
news:juetd...@news4.newsguy.com:
Che Guevara,definitely not "right-wing".
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
news:juetd...@news4.newsguy.com:
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Gunner Asch
Jul 21, 2012, 5:44:26 PM7/21/12
to
On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:44:35 -0700, "Oglethorpe" <anti...@go.com>
wrote:
>>
>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>>
>>
>
>No CITES.
How about contrary cites?
�Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
-Deep Dudu
Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"
She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
wrote:
>>
>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>>
>>
>
>No CITES.
�Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn...@4ax.com>
--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"
She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
Alim Nassor
Jul 21, 2012, 5:51:46 PM7/21/12
to
> >>>>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
> >>>>>> Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn548tmj6oc97uj2...@4ax.com>
>
> >>>>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>
> >>>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
> >>> No CITES.
>
> >> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
> >> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
> >> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>
> >> Hawke
>
> > You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
> > famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
> > famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
> > both famous right wingers?
>
> > Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
> > famous Left Wingers, no?
>
> Funny that you can remember all the left wing death squads but not any
> of the right wing ones. There are more on the right than on the left.
> But you're counting authoritarian dictators as being "left". They're
> not. I said you won't find any progressive death squads. You going to
> call Castro, Pol Pot, and Mao, progressives? I don't think so. Not by a
> country mile. Those are dictatorships and if anything they look a lot
> more like right wingers than progressives.
>
> Hawke
I know the right wing ones too, but then I wasn't the guys spouting
>
> >>>>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>
> >>>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>
> >>> No CITES.
>
> >> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
> >> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
> >> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>
> >> Hawke
>
> > You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
> > famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
> > famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
> > both famous right wingers?
>
> > Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
> > famous Left Wingers, no?
>
> Funny that you can remember all the left wing death squads but not any
> of the right wing ones. There are more on the right than on the left.
> But you're counting authoritarian dictators as being "left". They're
> not. I said you won't find any progressive death squads. You going to
> call Castro, Pol Pot, and Mao, progressives? I don't think so. Not by a
> country mile. Those are dictatorships and if anything they look a lot
> more like right wingers than progressives.
>
> Hawke
the nonsense about only the right had death squads. Those guys are
leftists, you can deny it all you want, but they are leftists. And
yeah, they are progressives. Did they not advocate social reforms?
You lefties decided "liberal" had a bad connotation to it, so you
became "progressives" Doesn't matter what you call it, a pile of dung
is still a pile of dung.
Hawke
Jul 21, 2012, 7:25:13 PM7/21/12
to
>>>>>>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
by people who don't play by the rule of law, kill and imprison people
without trials, and don't let the people vote, are dictators no matter
what they call themselves. Progressives oppose anyone in power that acts
like that. So none of the dictators that like to call themselves
"leftists" really are. They are run of the mill dictators. There's
nothing liberal or progressive about them. Saying you're a liberal and
running a country like Cuba the way Castro did are the opposites of each
other.
The death squads have never been from a true progressive. Dictators that
pretend they are progressive have death squads and right wing
governments have death squads but truly progressive regimes never do.
It's totally against progressive values to hunt down and kill innocent
people. I hear conservatives talk about doing all the time. I know
you've heard them too. We all have.
Hawke
Alim Nassor
Jul 21, 2012, 7:28:55 PM7/21/12
to
> >>>>>>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.”
government, less government intrusion in our lives, yet you proclaim
that the right is composed of murderous death squads and power hungry
dictators.
SaPeIsMa
Jul 21, 2012, 7:46:15 PM7/21/12
to
"David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:juetd...@news4.newsguy.com...
Oglethorpe
Jul 22, 2012, 12:41:17 AM7/22/12
to
news:jues57$6q9$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>>> �Best part of when we become a communist country is we will get to
>>>>>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
>>>>>>> line trash like you up against a wall and shoot you.�
>>>>>>> Message-ID: <l4dqc7l9s4fqk35rn548tmj6oc97uj2...@4ax.com>
>>>
>>>>>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>>>
>>>>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>>>
>>>> No CITES.
>>>
>>> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
>>> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
>>> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>>>
>>> Hawke
>>
>> You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
>> famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
>> famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
>> both famous right wingers?
>>
>> Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
>> famous Left Wingers, no?
>
>
> Funny that you can remember all the left wing death squads but not any of
> the right wing ones. There are more on the right than on the left.
Yety you can't name ONE.
>>>
>>>>>> Whatever it takes so that decent people can be free again.
>>>
>>>>> The death squads are always filled with nothing but right wingers.
>>>
>>>> No CITES.
>>>
>>> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
>>> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
>>> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>>>
>>> Hawke
>>
>> You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
>> famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
>> famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
>> both famous right wingers?
>>
>> Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
>> famous Left Wingers, no?
>
>
> Funny that you can remember all the left wing death squads but not any of
> the right wing ones. There are more on the right than on the left.
David R. Birch
Jul 22, 2012, 6:54:03 AM7/22/12
to
involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
David
Gunner Asch
Jul 22, 2012, 11:10:06 AM7/22/12
to
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 05:54:03 -0500, "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com>
wrote:
Thrown out? They killed him over it.
wrote:
Gunner Asch
Jul 22, 2012, 12:23:14 PM7/22/12
to
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 08:10:06 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>> deposed
>>
>>I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>>involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>>thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>>kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>
>>David
>
>Thrown out? They killed him over it.
Aug 20, 1940:
Trotsky assassinated in Mexico
Previous Day August 20 Calendar Next Day
0
Exiled Russian revolutionary Leon Trotsky is fatally wounded by an
ice-ax-wielding assassin at his compound outside Mexico City. The
killer--Ram�n Mercader--was a Spanish communist and probable agent of
Soviet leader Joseph Stalin. Trotsky died from his wounds the next day.
Born in the Ukraine of Russian-Jewish parents in 1879, Trotsky embraced
Marxism as a teenager and later dropped out of the University of Odessa
to help organize the underground South Russian Workers' Union. In 1898,
he was arrested for his revolutionary activities and sent to prison. In
1900, he was exiled to Siberia.
In 1902, he escaped to England using a forged passport under the name of
Leon Trotsky (his original name was Lev Davidovich Bronshtein). In
London, he collaborated with Bolshevik revolutionary Vladimir Ilyich
Lenin but later sided with the Menshevik factions that advocated a
democratic approach to socialism. With the outbreak of the Russian
Revolution of 1905, Trotsky returned to Russia and was again exiled to
Siberia when the revolution collapsed. In 1907, he again escaped.
During the next decade, he was expelled from a series of countries
because of his radicalism, living in Switzerland, Paris, Spain, and New
York City before returning to Russia at the outbreak of the revolution
in 1917. Trotsky played a leading role in the Bolsheviks' seizure of
power, conquering most of Petrograd before Lenin's triumphant return in
November. Appointed Lenin's secretary of foreign affairs, he negotiated
with the Germans for an end to Russian involvement in World War I. In
1918, he became war commissioner and set about building up the Red Army,
which succeeded in defeating anti-communist opposition in the Russian
Civil War. In the early 1920s, Trotsky seemed the heir apparent of
Lenin, but he lost out in the struggle of succession after Lenin fell
ill in 1922.
In 1924, Lenin died, and Joseph Stalin emerged as leader of the USSR.
Against Stalin's stated policies, Trotsky called for a continuing world
revolution that would inevitably result in the dismantling of the
increasingly bureaucratic Soviet state. He also criticized the new
regime for suppressing democracy in the Communist Party and for failing
to develop adequate economic planning. In response, Stalin and his
supporters launched a propaganda counterattack against Trotsky. In 1925,
he was removed from his post in the war commissariat. One year later, he
was expelled from the Politburo and in 1927 from the Communist Party. In
January 1928, Trotsky was deported by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin to
Alma-Ata in remote Soviet Central Asia. He lived there in internal exile
for a year before being banished from the USSR forever by Stalin.
He was received by the government of Turkey and settled on the island of
Prinkipo, where he worked on finishing his autobiography and history of
the Russian Revolution. After four years in Turkey, Trotsky lived in
France and then Norway and in 1936 was granted asylum in Mexico.
Settling with his family in a suburb of Mexico City, he was found guilty
of treason in absentia during Stalin's purges of his political foes. He
survived a machine gun attack carried out by Stalinist agents, but on
August 20, 1940, fell prey to Ram�n Mercader, a Spanish communist who
had won the confidence of the Trotsky household. The Soviet government
denied responsibility, and Mercader was sentenced to 20 years in prison
by Mexican authorities.
wrote:
>>>
>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>> deposed
>>
>>I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>>involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>>thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>>kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>
>>David
>
>Thrown out? They killed him over it.
Trotsky assassinated in Mexico
Previous Day August 20 Calendar Next Day
0
Exiled Russian revolutionary Leon Trotsky is fatally wounded by an
ice-ax-wielding assassin at his compound outside Mexico City. The
killer--Ram�n Mercader--was a Spanish communist and probable agent of
Soviet leader Joseph Stalin. Trotsky died from his wounds the next day.
Born in the Ukraine of Russian-Jewish parents in 1879, Trotsky embraced
Marxism as a teenager and later dropped out of the University of Odessa
to help organize the underground South Russian Workers' Union. In 1898,
he was arrested for his revolutionary activities and sent to prison. In
1900, he was exiled to Siberia.
In 1902, he escaped to England using a forged passport under the name of
Leon Trotsky (his original name was Lev Davidovich Bronshtein). In
London, he collaborated with Bolshevik revolutionary Vladimir Ilyich
Lenin but later sided with the Menshevik factions that advocated a
democratic approach to socialism. With the outbreak of the Russian
Revolution of 1905, Trotsky returned to Russia and was again exiled to
Siberia when the revolution collapsed. In 1907, he again escaped.
During the next decade, he was expelled from a series of countries
because of his radicalism, living in Switzerland, Paris, Spain, and New
York City before returning to Russia at the outbreak of the revolution
in 1917. Trotsky played a leading role in the Bolsheviks' seizure of
power, conquering most of Petrograd before Lenin's triumphant return in
November. Appointed Lenin's secretary of foreign affairs, he negotiated
with the Germans for an end to Russian involvement in World War I. In
1918, he became war commissioner and set about building up the Red Army,
which succeeded in defeating anti-communist opposition in the Russian
Civil War. In the early 1920s, Trotsky seemed the heir apparent of
Lenin, but he lost out in the struggle of succession after Lenin fell
ill in 1922.
In 1924, Lenin died, and Joseph Stalin emerged as leader of the USSR.
Against Stalin's stated policies, Trotsky called for a continuing world
revolution that would inevitably result in the dismantling of the
increasingly bureaucratic Soviet state. He also criticized the new
regime for suppressing democracy in the Communist Party and for failing
to develop adequate economic planning. In response, Stalin and his
supporters launched a propaganda counterattack against Trotsky. In 1925,
he was removed from his post in the war commissariat. One year later, he
was expelled from the Politburo and in 1927 from the Communist Party. In
January 1928, Trotsky was deported by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin to
Alma-Ata in remote Soviet Central Asia. He lived there in internal exile
for a year before being banished from the USSR forever by Stalin.
He was received by the government of Turkey and settled on the island of
Prinkipo, where he worked on finishing his autobiography and history of
the Russian Revolution. After four years in Turkey, Trotsky lived in
France and then Norway and in 1936 was granted asylum in Mexico.
Settling with his family in a suburb of Mexico City, he was found guilty
of treason in absentia during Stalin's purges of his political foes. He
survived a machine gun attack carried out by Stalinist agents, but on
August 20, 1940, fell prey to Ram�n Mercader, a Spanish communist who
had won the confidence of the Trotsky household. The Soviet government
denied responsibility, and Mercader was sentenced to 20 years in prison
by Mexican authorities.
Hawke
Jul 22, 2012, 4:37:19 PM7/22/12
to
On 7/21/2012 4:28 PM, Alim Nassor wrote:
> And I know that you know that true conservatives favor smaller limited
> government, less government intrusion in our lives, yet you proclaim
> that the right is composed of murderous death squads and power hungry
> dictators.
I can't help it. I read about all the right wing death squads in central
> And I know that you know that true conservatives favor smaller limited
> government, less government intrusion in our lives, yet you proclaim
> that the right is composed of murderous death squads and power hungry
> dictators.
and south America. The governments that fostered them were not
progressive ones, they were right wing/conservative regimes. Just about
every time it happens it's a right wing government or a dictator. Look
at what Bashar Assad is doing in Syria. He's not a progressive, that's
for sure. He's either a conservative or a dictator or both. He's killing
his own people by the thousands. I can't recall any progressive regimes
that have done that.
Hawke
Hawke
Jul 22, 2012, 4:39:45 PM7/22/12
to
On 7/21/2012 9:41 PM, Oglethorpe wrote:
>>>> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
>>>> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
>>>> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>>>>
>>>> Hawke
>>>
>>> You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
>>> famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
>>> famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
>>> both famous right wingers?
>>>
>>> Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
>>> famous Left Wingers, no?
>>
>>
>> Funny that you can remember all the left wing death squads but not any of
>> the right wing ones. There are more on the right than on the left.
>
>
> Yety you can't name ONE.
They were common in Nicaragua, Honduras, and throughout central and
>>>> That's because no one ever heard of a death squad that was made up of
>>>> progressives. That means it has to be somebody else. Nobody else is left
>>>> except right wingers and we have all heard of right wing death squads.
>>>>
>>>> Hawke
>>>
>>> You mean like Hugo Chavez, that famous right winger? Or another
>>> famous right winger, Castro? Those guys death squads? Or another
>>> famous right winger, Pol Pot? Guys like him? Or Stalin and Mao,
>>> both famous right wingers?
>>>
>>> Or could it be I'm mistaken? Seems like those guys were really all
>>> famous Left Wingers, no?
>>
>>
>> Funny that you can remember all the left wing death squads but not any of
>> the right wing ones. There are more on the right than on the left.
>
>
> Yety you can't name ONE.
south America. You don't know of any? Remember Ollie North? He was
instrumental in arming them.
Hawke
Alim Nassor
Jul 22, 2012, 5:24:22 PM7/22/12
to
David R. Birch
Jul 22, 2012, 6:25:59 PM7/22/12
to
On 7/22/2012 10:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>> Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
>>>>
>>>> I remember him, AKA Trotsky, but why do you associate him with death
>>>> squads?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>> deposed
>>
>> I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>> involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>> thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>> kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>
>> David
>
> Thrown out? They killed him over it.
Stalin was apparently too paranoid to accept him being only several
>>>>> Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
>>>>
>>>> I remember him, AKA Trotsky, but why do you associate him with death
>>>> squads?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>> deposed
>>
>> I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>> involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>> thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>> kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>
>> David
>
> Thrown out? They killed him over it.
thousand miles away.
David
Gunner Asch
Jul 22, 2012, 7:56:52 PM7/22/12
to
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0500, "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com>
wrote:
ayup. And Lenin was killed pretty early on as well.
Gunner
wrote:
Gunner
David R. Birch
Jul 22, 2012, 9:50:37 PM7/22/12
to
On 7/22/2012 6:56 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0500, "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/22/2012 10:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember him, AKA Trotsky, but why do you associate him with death
>>>>>> squads?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>>>> deposed
>>>>
>>>> I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>>>> involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>>>> thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>>>> kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
>>> Thrown out? They killed him over it.
>>
>> Stalin was apparently too paranoid to accept him being only several
>> thousand miles away.
>>
>> David
>
> ayup. And Lenin was killed pretty early on as well.
>
> Gunner
Only indirectly, as he had several strokes and finally died after the
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0500, "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/22/2012 10:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember him, AKA Trotsky, but why do you associate him with death
>>>>>> squads?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>>>> deposed
>>>>
>>>> I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>>>> involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>>>> thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>>>> kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
>>> Thrown out? They killed him over it.
>>
>> Stalin was apparently too paranoid to accept him being only several
>> thousand miles away.
>>
>> David
>
> ayup. And Lenin was killed pretty early on as well.
>
> Gunner
second assassination attempt. His assassin was well known and not a
Stalinist tool.
David
pyotr filipivich
Jul 23, 2012, 1:07:59 AM7/23/12
to
"David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> on Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0500
typed in misc.survivalism the following:
Not so much "paranoid", as intolerant of Heretics, and those who
strayed from the True Path. Especially those right deviationists,
like the Trotskites, the National Socialists, and the Italian Fascist
movement.
Gots to be keeping the faith, pure and undefiled.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Most journalists these days couldn't investigate a missing chocolate cake
at a pre-school without a Democrat office holder telling them what to look for,
where, and why it is Geroge Bush's fault.
typed in misc.survivalism the following:
strayed from the True Path. Especially those right deviationists,
like the Trotskites, the National Socialists, and the Italian Fascist
movement.
Gots to be keeping the faith, pure and undefiled.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Most journalists these days couldn't investigate a missing chocolate cake
at a pre-school without a Democrat office holder telling them what to look for,
where, and why it is Geroge Bush's fault.
Gunner Asch
Jul 23, 2012, 2:51:19 AM7/23/12
to
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 20:50:37 -0500, "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com>
Disinformation was an invention of the Soviet. Think hard before making
such singular statements.
such singular statements.
Hawke
Jul 23, 2012, 2:07:46 PM7/23/12
to
Castro he had plenty of people killed like all dictators do. But death
squads? When was this and who was being killed? You're not referring to
the normal killings of the opposition during the revolution, are you?
Getting rid of the former leaders and their close followers is normal
and not what death squads are normally known for. Nazi death squads are
a prime example of how they work. They have specific targets they want
eliminated and that's what they do. I don't remember Chavez doing that
kind of thing. He was elected by wide margins. So who was he sending the
death squads to kill?
Hawke
David R. Birch
Jul 23, 2012, 7:44:33 PM7/23/12
to
On 7/23/2012 12:07 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> on Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0500
> typed in misc.survivalism the following:
>> On 7/22/2012 10:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember him, AKA Trotsky, but why do you associate him with death
>>>>>> squads?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>>>> deposed
>>>>
>>>> I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>>>> involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>>>> thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>>>> kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
>>> Thrown out? They killed him over it.
>>
>> Stalin was apparently too paranoid to accept him being only several
>> thousand miles away.
>
> Not so much "paranoid", as intolerant of Heretics, and those who
> strayed from the True Path. Especially those right deviationists,
> like the Trotskites, the National Socialists, and the Italian Fascist
> movement.
>
> Gots to be keeping the faith, pure and undefiled.
Intolerance got him thrown out of the Party and Russia.
> "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> on Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0500
> typed in misc.survivalism the following:
>> On 7/22/2012 10:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember him, AKA Trotsky, but why do you associate him with death
>>>>>> squads?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>>>> deposed
>>>>
>>>> I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>>>> involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>>>> thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>>>> kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
>>> Thrown out? They killed him over it.
>>
>> Stalin was apparently too paranoid to accept him being only several
>> thousand miles away.
>
> Not so much "paranoid", as intolerant of Heretics, and those who
> strayed from the True Path. Especially those right deviationists,
> like the Trotskites, the National Socialists, and the Italian Fascist
> movement.
>
> Gots to be keeping the faith, pure and undefiled.
Paranoia got him killed.
David
David R. Birch
Jul 23, 2012, 7:47:28 PM7/23/12
to
On 7/23/2012 1:51 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> ayup. And Lenin was killed pretty early on as well.
>>>
>>> Gunner
>>
>> Only indirectly, as he had several strokes and finally died after the
>> second assassination attempt. His assassin was well known and not a
>> Stalinist tool.
>>
>> David
>
> Disinformation was an invention of the Soviet. Think hard before making
> such singular statements.
>
> Gunner
I did, and I am already very well informed on this particular subject.
>>> ayup. And Lenin was killed pretty early on as well.
>>>
>>> Gunner
>>
>> Only indirectly, as he had several strokes and finally died after the
>> second assassination attempt. His assassin was well known and not a
>> Stalinist tool.
>>
>> David
>
> Disinformation was an invention of the Soviet. Think hard before making
> such singular statements.
>
> Gunner
David
SaPeIsMa
Jul 23, 2012, 10:05:49 PM7/23/12
to
news:juknl...@news4.newsguy.com...
Riiiight
His alleged paranoia made the ice pick slam into his head.
His alleged paranoia made the ice pick slam into his head.
pyotr filipivich
Jul 24, 2012, 3:00:18 AM7/24/12
to
"David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> on Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:44:33 -0500
>
>Paranoia got him killed.
Religious fervor, masquerading as "paranoia". Only in Stalin's de
fence, he really did have people out to get him.
>
>David
typed in misc.survivalism the following:
>On 7/23/2012 12:07 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> on Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0500
>> typed in misc.survivalism the following:
>>> On 7/22/2012 10:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I remember him, AKA Trotsky, but why do you associate him with death
>>>>>>> squads?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>>>>> deposed
>>>>>
>>>>> I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>>>>> involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>>>>> thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>>>>> kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Thrown out? They killed him over it.
>>>
>>> Stalin was apparently too paranoid to accept him being only several
>>> thousand miles away.
>>
>> Not so much "paranoid", as intolerant of Heretics, and those who
>> strayed from the True Path. Especially those right deviationists,
>> like the Trotskites, the National Socialists, and the Italian Fascist
>> movement.
>>
>> Gots to be keeping the faith, pure and undefiled.
>
>Intolerance got him thrown out of the Party and Russia.
Got Trotsky, yes.
>On 7/23/2012 12:07 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> "David R. Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> on Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0500
>> typed in misc.survivalism the following:
>>> On 7/22/2012 10:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't forget Lev Davidovich Bronshtein!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I remember him, AKA Trotsky, but why do you associate him with death
>>>>>>> squads?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read up on the history of Secret Police in Russia after the Tsar was
>>>>>> deposed
>>>>>
>>>>> I already have, but Trotsky did not have direct control of or
>>>>> involvement with death squads. Mainly, he formed the Red Army. He was
>>>>> thrown out of the Party for not supporting Stalin who engaged in that
>>>>> kind of activity through Felix Dzerzhinsky, who formed and headed the Cheka.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Thrown out? They killed him over it.
>>>
>>> Stalin was apparently too paranoid to accept him being only several
>>> thousand miles away.
>>
>> Not so much "paranoid", as intolerant of Heretics, and those who
>> strayed from the True Path. Especially those right deviationists,
>> like the Trotskites, the National Socialists, and the Italian Fascist
>> movement.
>>
>> Gots to be keeping the faith, pure and undefiled.
>
>Intolerance got him thrown out of the Party and Russia.
>
>Paranoia got him killed.
Religious fervor, masquerading as "paranoia". Only in Stalin's de
fence, he really did have people out to get him.
>
>David
Gunner Asch
Jul 24, 2012, 3:34:05 AM7/24/12
to
On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:05:49 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" <Sape...@gmail.com>
Ice AX...not ice pick.
Rather an ugly way to go.
Gunner
Rather an ugly way to go.
Gunner
David R. Birch
Jul 24, 2012, 7:38:47 PM7/24/12
to
David
David R. Birch
Jul 24, 2012, 7:42:59 PM7/24/12
to
On 7/24/2012 2:00 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>> Not so much "paranoid", as intolerant of Heretics, and those who
>>> strayed from the True Path. Especially those right deviationists,
>>> like the Trotskites, the National Socialists, and the Italian Fascist
>>> movement.
>>>
>>> Gots to be keeping the faith, pure and undefiled.
>>
>> Intolerance got him thrown out of the Party and Russia.
>
> Got Trotsky, yes.
>>
>> Paranoia got him killed.
>
> Religious fervor, masquerading as "paranoia". Only in Stalin's de
> fence, he really did have people out to get him.
Yes, paranoids are often right, there are people out to get them.
>>> Not so much "paranoid", as intolerant of Heretics, and those who
>>> strayed from the True Path. Especially those right deviationists,
>>> like the Trotskites, the National Socialists, and the Italian Fascist
>>> movement.
>>>
>>> Gots to be keeping the faith, pure and undefiled.
>>
>> Intolerance got him thrown out of the Party and Russia.
>
> Got Trotsky, yes.
>>
>> Paranoia got him killed.
>
> Religious fervor, masquerading as "paranoia". Only in Stalin's de
> fence, he really did have people out to get him.
And Stalin was also seriously paranoid, he had thousands, if not
millions, killed because he thought they MIGHT be conspiring against him.
David
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