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Some Chicago gangs turning to rifles for added firepower, police say
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Leroy N. Soetoro
Feb 26, 2017, 3:30:12 PM2/26/17
to
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-gang-rifles-chicago-
violence-met-20170223-story.html
The first time 14-year-old Brisa Ramirez remembers hearing rifle fire was
when a man was shot dead on a Sunday afternoon outside a Catholic church
around the corner from her home in Back of the Yards.
She raises her voice to imitate the sharp, metallic bursts. Ta. Ta. Ta.
Ta. Ta. It was a foreign sound even in this neighborhood accustomed to
gunfire.
"It wasn't like a normal (shooting). … It was like something more
terrible," Brisa says. "A noise that you can't really explain."
She and others in Davis Square Park took cover against concrete steps
across the street from Seward Elementary School, where Brisa had just
graduated from eighth grade.
The shooting was one of at least 33 in Back of the Yards and Brighton Park
over the past nine months that police believe are tied to semi-automatic
rifles as several gangs boost their firepower. At least 46 people have
been shot in the attacks, 13 fatally.
Police say this is the only area of the city where rifles styled after AR-
15s and AK-47s are regularly used, a menacing new development in the gang
fights.
It's unclear how many of the high-powered rifles are on the street, but
police suspect they are being passed around by members of four Hispanic
gangs in the Deering police district, which covers parts of the South and
Southwest sides.
Two of the gangs — La Raza near 47th and Loomis streets and the Almighty
Saints near 45th and Wood streets — have been fighting for decades. But
the conflict has expanded to the Satan Disciples and Gangster Two-Sixes in
neighboring Brighton Park, where violence is less frequent.
Police have seized at least three rifles and have recovered rifle casings
at dozens of crime scenes. There is also surveillance video showing rifles
being used, according to investigators.
Police aren't sure why the gangs have suddenly added rifles to their
arsenal, except for the obvious speculation that they are deadlier.
A bullet from a semi-automatic rifle can travel as fast as 3,200 feet per
second, twice the speed from a handgun. That means wounds are more
disabling, experts say.
Rifle bullets can tear through cars and other obstacles, including
standard-issue bulletproof vests worn by Chicago police. Special "rifle
plates" that can stop those rounds are issued to SWAT teams, and some
officers on regular duty also buy them.
Gangs have fired rifles outside elementary schools and churches, a day
care center, in alleys and on residential streets, mostly during the
afternoon and evening hours when streets are often crowded.
The conflict has grown so intense that officers were called to Seward and
Lara elementary schools in Saints territory in December after a Raza gang
member threatened to shoot school-age kids with a rifle, according to
police sources.
"I get worried," said Brisa's mother, Silvia Ramirez. Her family lives in
"Halo City," Almighty Saints territory bounded by 43rd and 47th streets
and Damen and Ashland avenues. "I've seen how all these young people are
dying."
'What did I do wrong?'
Two white candles burn in the Gonzalez family's Brighton Park living room
next to two photos in a red and green Virgin Mary shadowbox.
One burns for Daniel Torres, a 17-year-old shot to death with a rifle just
before Christmas outside Shields Elementary School, at 43rd and Rockwell
streets, as classes were letting out. Two others also were shot, one
fatally.
The other candle commemorates the loss of Torres' close friend, 18-year-
old David Gonzalez, who was fatally shot by rifle fire three weeks later
and only about a block from where Torres was killed. Four other people
were wounded in the shooting.
As young children, Torres and Gonzalez used to scream for each other from
across Fairfield Avenue because their parents wouldn't let them cross the
street.
They became inseparable as their families grew close by marriage. They
lived together for years, and both joined the Satan Disciples.
Their parents think the two turned because they felt backed into a corner.
Torres' mother, Marisa Dominguez, said her son and Gonzalez had been
bullied by Satan Disciples at Kelly Park and by Two-Sixers in high school.
"I think about it every day. Every day I say to myself, what did I do
wrong with my son? Was I a bad mom, was I a bad parent that I didn't do
enough?" Dominguez said. "You think about it now, now that he's not here,
now that I know I'm not going to see him again."
The Satan Disciples — with their turf between about Oakley and California
avenues — and the Two-Sixers — west of there — are as much a part of
Brighton Park as the brown bungalows and iron fences that line the one-way
streets south of Pershing Road.
But residents say it's only in the last three or four years that they've
seen such violence.
The Deering police district is one of four that experienced a lot of
Chicago's violence in 2016, the deadliest year in the city in two decades.
Deering finished the year with about 60 people killed, roughly double the
previous year.
Police started noticing the rifles early last year, mostly in Back of the
Yards, and their use has been increasing. October had three rifle
shootings, November had six and December had nine, about the time the
shootings started in Brighton Park, according to police.
Torres' death on Dec. 16 was only the third rifle shooting in that
neighborhood since March, but there have been five since.
Dominguez was walking to pick up her younger kids from a charter school
when she heard gunfire. Worried, she said she called her son, but he did
not answer.
By the time she made it home, ambulances were lining up on 43rd Street.
Torres' friends ran up and said her son had been shot. She waited at the
scene after telling police her son's name. Officers told her he was taken
to Mount Sinai Hospital, but he died before she got there.
"I was so young when I had him, and God took him from me when he was young
as well," Dominguez said. "I had a very good relationship with him. I did
the best that I could for him."
By the end of December, gangs in the area were using rifles "almost
exclusively," according to several veteran officers interviewed by the
Tribune. The last day of 2016 saw two rifle shootings: one a block from
Brisa Ramirez's home and the other a few blocks west.
The first rifle shooting of the new year was the one that killed Gonzalez
on Jan. 11.
In the weeks before his own death, Gonzalez had been shaken by Torres'
killing. He had built a small memorial in the family's back yard from
cardboard and foil and sat out there, his family said. Others would join
him and light candles.
"He was always back there. Every morning with his coffee, he was back
there," Dominguez said. "He took it hard."
On the day he died, Gonzalez spent the morning at home. It was pouring
rain. He left the house that afternoon after eating a warm meal prepared
by his mother.
The family had scheduled a Mass for what would have been Torres' 18th
birthday on Jan. 12, so Gonzalez texted his friends. He wanted everyone to
show up.
"He couldn't have been outside for more than half an hour when it
happened," said his mother, Juliana Gonzalez. "Because it's not like I can
say he was out all night — it was the afternoon."
Gonzalez was in a car with four others on Talman Avenue, across from
Shields Elementary, when someone stepped from a white van and started
shooting. All five in the car were hit, Gonzalez the most seriously.
His family heard on social media that he had been shot. His mother drove
from hospital to hospital, looking for him. She was desperate for
information, learning little from rumors spreading on social media.
As it turned out, her son had been pronounced dead where the car finally
stopped, about a mile from the shooting. He had been shot in the back of
the head.
Four days later, two people were wounded in a rifle shooting that police
believe was retaliation for Gonzalez's killing.
'The rifle comes out'
The weapon of choice for gangs had long been the revolver, the same kind
of gun carried by police. That began to evolve in the 1980s and early
1990s with the appearance of the TEC-9 and MAC-10 pistols with high-
capacity magazines. Then it was the semi-automatic handgun, the same
weapon Chicago officers now use.
Rifles were briefly used about 10 years ago in a conflict between the New
Breeds and the Traveling Vice Lords, two of the West Side's most violent
street gangs. Former police Superintendent Jody Weis allowed patrol
officers to carry semi-automatic rifles after two officers nearly got shot
by a gunman armed with an AK-47 rifle.
Semi-automatic rifles can be bought by anyone licensed to buy a firearm.
They fire a single round per trigger pull and the magazine can carry 30
rounds.
Police have several theories about how the Hispanic gangs are getting
these rifles — they're buying them in Indiana, where gun laws are more
lax, or they're buying or renting them from other gangs.
"Alliances, sort of," one veteran South Side officer said.
In many of the rifle shootings, gangs send out scout cars in search of
rivals, according to the officer. "The other car comes up, and the rifle
comes out," the officer said.
In Back of the Yards and Brighton Park, rifle fire has come from a black
SUV, a silver Nissan Sentra with tinted windows, a brown minivan with
sliding doors, and a red or maroon Jeep Cherokee, according to police.
Rifle seizures are still rare and didn't crack the list of the 20 most-
seized types of guns in 2014, according to the latest breakdown from the
Police Department.
Police and Cook County sheriff's officers have conducted searches across
the neighborhood over the last few months. At least three rifles have been
seized so far in the Deering District.
One of the rifles was recovered last Labor Day. Police were pursuing two
suspected La Raza gang members after a fatal shooting in Almighty Saints
territory. The two wrapped the rifle in a T-shirt and tried stashing it in
a clothing donation bin, according to a security video from a gas station
on Western Avenue. But it didn't fit, so they kept running and were
arrested in an alley just off Western. The rifle was recovered in a
backyard nearby.
In the most recent seizure, on Feb. 9, officers on patrol spotted gunfire
from a car near 47th Street, not far from where a warrant had come up
empty-handed in January.
As the officers gave chase, a dispatcher said neighbors were flooding 911
to report gunfire.
"Sounded like a machine gun," the dispatcher said. "Just be advised, we
still have hot tickets coming in for shots fired, 47(th) and Loomis,
47(th) and Bishop."
The chase went as far south as Garfield Boulevard before heading back
north toward Almighty Saints territory at 43rd Street and Ashland Avenue.
Two teens deserted the car in an alley and took off on foot, but officers
arrested one within seconds wearing a black face mask and black gloves.
While searching for the other teen, police started hearing gunfire near
45th and Wood, then near 48th and Paulina. One officer wondered if it was
a diversion. "They're not above shooting to just get our attention," he
radioed.
Police found two rifles inside the car — one a Remington, its serial
number defaced, complicating efforts to figure out its origins, and the
other a Norinco AK-47-style rifle made in China, according to law
enforcement sources.
So far, police have linked one of them to a shooting Dec. 30 in the 4700
of South Throop Street that wounded one person.
As the conflict escalates, Marisa Dominguez worries gangs will try to
recruit her 12-year-old son by enticing him to avenge his brother's death.
"This is the time where they start trying to get more kids," she said. "I
fear that they'll grab him ... and pull (him) in little by little. And
that's the biggest fear now."
pnic...@chicagotribune.com
jgo...@chicagotribune.com
nmo...@chicagotribune.com
--
Donald J. Trump, 304 electoral votes to 227, defeated compulsive liar in
denial Hillary Rodham Clinton on December 19th, 2016. The clown car
parade of the democrat party has run out of gas.
Congratulations President Trump. Thank you for ending the disaster of the
Obama presidency.
Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
The World According To Garp.
ObamaCare is a total 100% failure and no lie that can be put forth by its
supporters can dispute that.
Obama jobs, the result of ObamaCare. 12-15 working hours a week at minimum
wage, no benefits and the primary revenue stream for ObamaCare. It can't
be funded with money people don't have, yet liberals lie about how great
it is.
Obama increased total debt from $10 trillion to $20 trillion in the eight
years he was in office, and sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood queer
liberal democrat donors.
violence-met-20170223-story.html
The first time 14-year-old Brisa Ramirez remembers hearing rifle fire was
when a man was shot dead on a Sunday afternoon outside a Catholic church
around the corner from her home in Back of the Yards.
She raises her voice to imitate the sharp, metallic bursts. Ta. Ta. Ta.
Ta. Ta. It was a foreign sound even in this neighborhood accustomed to
gunfire.
"It wasn't like a normal (shooting). … It was like something more
terrible," Brisa says. "A noise that you can't really explain."
She and others in Davis Square Park took cover against concrete steps
across the street from Seward Elementary School, where Brisa had just
graduated from eighth grade.
The shooting was one of at least 33 in Back of the Yards and Brighton Park
over the past nine months that police believe are tied to semi-automatic
rifles as several gangs boost their firepower. At least 46 people have
been shot in the attacks, 13 fatally.
Police say this is the only area of the city where rifles styled after AR-
15s and AK-47s are regularly used, a menacing new development in the gang
fights.
It's unclear how many of the high-powered rifles are on the street, but
police suspect they are being passed around by members of four Hispanic
gangs in the Deering police district, which covers parts of the South and
Southwest sides.
Two of the gangs — La Raza near 47th and Loomis streets and the Almighty
Saints near 45th and Wood streets — have been fighting for decades. But
the conflict has expanded to the Satan Disciples and Gangster Two-Sixes in
neighboring Brighton Park, where violence is less frequent.
Police have seized at least three rifles and have recovered rifle casings
at dozens of crime scenes. There is also surveillance video showing rifles
being used, according to investigators.
Police aren't sure why the gangs have suddenly added rifles to their
arsenal, except for the obvious speculation that they are deadlier.
A bullet from a semi-automatic rifle can travel as fast as 3,200 feet per
second, twice the speed from a handgun. That means wounds are more
disabling, experts say.
Rifle bullets can tear through cars and other obstacles, including
standard-issue bulletproof vests worn by Chicago police. Special "rifle
plates" that can stop those rounds are issued to SWAT teams, and some
officers on regular duty also buy them.
Gangs have fired rifles outside elementary schools and churches, a day
care center, in alleys and on residential streets, mostly during the
afternoon and evening hours when streets are often crowded.
The conflict has grown so intense that officers were called to Seward and
Lara elementary schools in Saints territory in December after a Raza gang
member threatened to shoot school-age kids with a rifle, according to
police sources.
"I get worried," said Brisa's mother, Silvia Ramirez. Her family lives in
"Halo City," Almighty Saints territory bounded by 43rd and 47th streets
and Damen and Ashland avenues. "I've seen how all these young people are
dying."
'What did I do wrong?'
Two white candles burn in the Gonzalez family's Brighton Park living room
next to two photos in a red and green Virgin Mary shadowbox.
One burns for Daniel Torres, a 17-year-old shot to death with a rifle just
before Christmas outside Shields Elementary School, at 43rd and Rockwell
streets, as classes were letting out. Two others also were shot, one
fatally.
The other candle commemorates the loss of Torres' close friend, 18-year-
old David Gonzalez, who was fatally shot by rifle fire three weeks later
and only about a block from where Torres was killed. Four other people
were wounded in the shooting.
As young children, Torres and Gonzalez used to scream for each other from
across Fairfield Avenue because their parents wouldn't let them cross the
street.
They became inseparable as their families grew close by marriage. They
lived together for years, and both joined the Satan Disciples.
Their parents think the two turned because they felt backed into a corner.
Torres' mother, Marisa Dominguez, said her son and Gonzalez had been
bullied by Satan Disciples at Kelly Park and by Two-Sixers in high school.
"I think about it every day. Every day I say to myself, what did I do
wrong with my son? Was I a bad mom, was I a bad parent that I didn't do
enough?" Dominguez said. "You think about it now, now that he's not here,
now that I know I'm not going to see him again."
The Satan Disciples — with their turf between about Oakley and California
avenues — and the Two-Sixers — west of there — are as much a part of
Brighton Park as the brown bungalows and iron fences that line the one-way
streets south of Pershing Road.
But residents say it's only in the last three or four years that they've
seen such violence.
The Deering police district is one of four that experienced a lot of
Chicago's violence in 2016, the deadliest year in the city in two decades.
Deering finished the year with about 60 people killed, roughly double the
previous year.
Police started noticing the rifles early last year, mostly in Back of the
Yards, and their use has been increasing. October had three rifle
shootings, November had six and December had nine, about the time the
shootings started in Brighton Park, according to police.
Torres' death on Dec. 16 was only the third rifle shooting in that
neighborhood since March, but there have been five since.
Dominguez was walking to pick up her younger kids from a charter school
when she heard gunfire. Worried, she said she called her son, but he did
not answer.
By the time she made it home, ambulances were lining up on 43rd Street.
Torres' friends ran up and said her son had been shot. She waited at the
scene after telling police her son's name. Officers told her he was taken
to Mount Sinai Hospital, but he died before she got there.
"I was so young when I had him, and God took him from me when he was young
as well," Dominguez said. "I had a very good relationship with him. I did
the best that I could for him."
By the end of December, gangs in the area were using rifles "almost
exclusively," according to several veteran officers interviewed by the
Tribune. The last day of 2016 saw two rifle shootings: one a block from
Brisa Ramirez's home and the other a few blocks west.
The first rifle shooting of the new year was the one that killed Gonzalez
on Jan. 11.
In the weeks before his own death, Gonzalez had been shaken by Torres'
killing. He had built a small memorial in the family's back yard from
cardboard and foil and sat out there, his family said. Others would join
him and light candles.
"He was always back there. Every morning with his coffee, he was back
there," Dominguez said. "He took it hard."
On the day he died, Gonzalez spent the morning at home. It was pouring
rain. He left the house that afternoon after eating a warm meal prepared
by his mother.
The family had scheduled a Mass for what would have been Torres' 18th
birthday on Jan. 12, so Gonzalez texted his friends. He wanted everyone to
show up.
"He couldn't have been outside for more than half an hour when it
happened," said his mother, Juliana Gonzalez. "Because it's not like I can
say he was out all night — it was the afternoon."
Gonzalez was in a car with four others on Talman Avenue, across from
Shields Elementary, when someone stepped from a white van and started
shooting. All five in the car were hit, Gonzalez the most seriously.
His family heard on social media that he had been shot. His mother drove
from hospital to hospital, looking for him. She was desperate for
information, learning little from rumors spreading on social media.
As it turned out, her son had been pronounced dead where the car finally
stopped, about a mile from the shooting. He had been shot in the back of
the head.
Four days later, two people were wounded in a rifle shooting that police
believe was retaliation for Gonzalez's killing.
'The rifle comes out'
The weapon of choice for gangs had long been the revolver, the same kind
of gun carried by police. That began to evolve in the 1980s and early
1990s with the appearance of the TEC-9 and MAC-10 pistols with high-
capacity magazines. Then it was the semi-automatic handgun, the same
weapon Chicago officers now use.
Rifles were briefly used about 10 years ago in a conflict between the New
Breeds and the Traveling Vice Lords, two of the West Side's most violent
street gangs. Former police Superintendent Jody Weis allowed patrol
officers to carry semi-automatic rifles after two officers nearly got shot
by a gunman armed with an AK-47 rifle.
Semi-automatic rifles can be bought by anyone licensed to buy a firearm.
They fire a single round per trigger pull and the magazine can carry 30
rounds.
Police have several theories about how the Hispanic gangs are getting
these rifles — they're buying them in Indiana, where gun laws are more
lax, or they're buying or renting them from other gangs.
"Alliances, sort of," one veteran South Side officer said.
In many of the rifle shootings, gangs send out scout cars in search of
rivals, according to the officer. "The other car comes up, and the rifle
comes out," the officer said.
In Back of the Yards and Brighton Park, rifle fire has come from a black
SUV, a silver Nissan Sentra with tinted windows, a brown minivan with
sliding doors, and a red or maroon Jeep Cherokee, according to police.
Rifle seizures are still rare and didn't crack the list of the 20 most-
seized types of guns in 2014, according to the latest breakdown from the
Police Department.
Police and Cook County sheriff's officers have conducted searches across
the neighborhood over the last few months. At least three rifles have been
seized so far in the Deering District.
One of the rifles was recovered last Labor Day. Police were pursuing two
suspected La Raza gang members after a fatal shooting in Almighty Saints
territory. The two wrapped the rifle in a T-shirt and tried stashing it in
a clothing donation bin, according to a security video from a gas station
on Western Avenue. But it didn't fit, so they kept running and were
arrested in an alley just off Western. The rifle was recovered in a
backyard nearby.
In the most recent seizure, on Feb. 9, officers on patrol spotted gunfire
from a car near 47th Street, not far from where a warrant had come up
empty-handed in January.
As the officers gave chase, a dispatcher said neighbors were flooding 911
to report gunfire.
"Sounded like a machine gun," the dispatcher said. "Just be advised, we
still have hot tickets coming in for shots fired, 47(th) and Loomis,
47(th) and Bishop."
The chase went as far south as Garfield Boulevard before heading back
north toward Almighty Saints territory at 43rd Street and Ashland Avenue.
Two teens deserted the car in an alley and took off on foot, but officers
arrested one within seconds wearing a black face mask and black gloves.
While searching for the other teen, police started hearing gunfire near
45th and Wood, then near 48th and Paulina. One officer wondered if it was
a diversion. "They're not above shooting to just get our attention," he
radioed.
Police found two rifles inside the car — one a Remington, its serial
number defaced, complicating efforts to figure out its origins, and the
other a Norinco AK-47-style rifle made in China, according to law
enforcement sources.
So far, police have linked one of them to a shooting Dec. 30 in the 4700
of South Throop Street that wounded one person.
As the conflict escalates, Marisa Dominguez worries gangs will try to
recruit her 12-year-old son by enticing him to avenge his brother's death.
"This is the time where they start trying to get more kids," she said. "I
fear that they'll grab him ... and pull (him) in little by little. And
that's the biggest fear now."
pnic...@chicagotribune.com
jgo...@chicagotribune.com
nmo...@chicagotribune.com
--
Donald J. Trump, 304 electoral votes to 227, defeated compulsive liar in
denial Hillary Rodham Clinton on December 19th, 2016. The clown car
parade of the democrat party has run out of gas.
Congratulations President Trump. Thank you for ending the disaster of the
Obama presidency.
Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
The World According To Garp.
ObamaCare is a total 100% failure and no lie that can be put forth by its
supporters can dispute that.
Obama jobs, the result of ObamaCare. 12-15 working hours a week at minimum
wage, no benefits and the primary revenue stream for ObamaCare. It can't
be funded with money people don't have, yet liberals lie about how great
it is.
Obama increased total debt from $10 trillion to $20 trillion in the eight
years he was in office, and sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood queer
liberal democrat donors.
col...@gmail.com
Feb 26, 2017, 6:05:20 PM2/26/17
to
I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
de chucka
Feb 26, 2017, 6:08:24 PM2/26/17
to
On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
col...@gmail.com
Feb 26, 2017, 6:52:43 PM2/26/17
to
Maybe they'll shoot better with rifles, it's not like gang members will ever be worth a damn to society.
Michael Ejercito
Feb 26, 2017, 9:38:58 PM2/26/17
to
wrote in message
news:6ab261f6-f9ad-409f...@googlegroups.com...
>Maybe they'll shoot better with rifles, it's not like gang members will
>ever be worth a damn to society.
do obtaining crack.
Michael
col...@gmail.com
Feb 27, 2017, 7:33:24 AM2/27/17
to
They will steal rifles same as they have stolen pistols.
Kläûs Schädéñfréudê
Feb 27, 2017, 7:38:31 AM2/27/17
to
On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:08:16 +1100, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>
>Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
It doesn't seem to bother the residents much- if it did, they'd do
something about it.
wrote:
>On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>
>Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
something about it.
Wayne
Feb 27, 2017, 11:46:50 AM2/27/17
to
On 2/26/2017 12:30 PM, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-gang-rifles-chicago-
> violence-met-20170223-story.html
>
> The first time 14-year-old Brisa Ramirez remembers hearing rifle fire was
> when a man was shot dead on a Sunday afternoon outside a Catholic church
> around the corner from her home in Back of the Yards.
>
> She raises her voice to imitate the sharp, metallic bursts. Ta. Ta. Ta.
> Ta. Ta. It was a foreign sound even in this neighborhood accustomed to
> gunfire.
>
> "It wasn't like a normal (shooting). … It was like something more
> terrible," Brisa says. "A noise that you can't really explain."
>
There is a very strong suspicion that this story has little basis and is
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-gang-rifles-chicago-
> violence-met-20170223-story.html
>
> The first time 14-year-old Brisa Ramirez remembers hearing rifle fire was
> when a man was shot dead on a Sunday afternoon outside a Catholic church
> around the corner from her home in Back of the Yards.
>
> She raises her voice to imitate the sharp, metallic bursts. Ta. Ta. Ta.
> Ta. Ta. It was a foreign sound even in this neighborhood accustomed to
> gunfire.
>
> "It wasn't like a normal (shooting). … It was like something more
> terrible," Brisa says. "A noise that you can't really explain."
>
being used by anti-gunners to justify banning AR-15 looking rifles.
RD Sandman
Feb 27, 2017, 7:34:56 PM2/27/17
to
de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:oZudnQXYvbl-wi7FnZ2dnUU7-
SGd...@westnet.com.au:
> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>
> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is innocents that I
have a problem.
--
RD Sandman
Airspeed, altitude and brains....two of the three are always
required to complete a mission.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
SGd...@westnet.com.au:
> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>
> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
have a problem.
--
RD Sandman
Airspeed, altitude and brains....two of the three are always
required to complete a mission.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
RD Sandman
Feb 27, 2017, 7:35:59 PM2/27/17
to
col...@gmail.com wrote in
news:6ab261f6-f9ad-409f...@googlegroups.com:
> Maybe they'll shoot better with rifles, it's not like gang members
> will ever be worth a damn to society.
When they hit innocents, that is no longer true.
news:6ab261f6-f9ad-409f...@googlegroups.com:
> Maybe they'll shoot better with rifles, it's not like gang members
> will ever be worth a damn to society.
RD Sandman
Feb 27, 2017, 7:36:59 PM2/27/17
to
Wayne <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:o91l24$2u5$1...@dont-email.me:
Hoving looked at other data on the same area, I can agree with your
statement.
news:o91l24$2u5$1...@dont-email.me:
statement.
de chucka
Feb 27, 2017, 7:46:47 PM2/27/17
to
On 28/02/2017 11:34 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:oZudnQXYvbl-wi7FnZ2dnUU7-
> SGd...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>
>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>
> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is innocents that I
> have a problem.
that is what is being discussed
> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:oZudnQXYvbl-wi7FnZ2dnUU7-
> SGd...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>
>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>
> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is innocents that I
> have a problem.
de chucka
Feb 27, 2017, 7:49:14 PM2/27/17
to
On 28/02/2017 11:36 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
> Wayne <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:o91l24$2u5$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 2/26/2017 12:30 PM, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-gang-rifles-chica
>>> go- violence-met-20170223-story.html
>>>
>>> The first time 14-year-old Brisa Ramirez remembers hearing rifle fire
>>> was when a man was shot dead on a Sunday afternoon outside a Catholic
>>> church around the corner from her home in Back of the Yards.
>>>
>>> She raises her voice to imitate the sharp, metallic bursts. Ta. Ta.
>>> Ta. Ta. Ta. It was a foreign sound even in this neighborhood
>>> accustomed to gunfire.
>>>
>>> "It wasn't like a normal (shooting). … It was like something more
>>> terrible," Brisa says. "A noise that you can't really explain."
>>>
>>
>> There is a very strong suspicion that this story has little basis and
>> is being used by anti-gunners to justify banning AR-15 looking rifles.
>>
>>
>
> Hoving looked at other data on the same area, I can agree with your
> statement.
Fake news?
> Wayne <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:o91l24$2u5$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 2/26/2017 12:30 PM, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-gang-rifles-chica
>>> go- violence-met-20170223-story.html
>>>
>>> The first time 14-year-old Brisa Ramirez remembers hearing rifle fire
>>> was when a man was shot dead on a Sunday afternoon outside a Catholic
>>> church around the corner from her home in Back of the Yards.
>>>
>>> She raises her voice to imitate the sharp, metallic bursts. Ta. Ta.
>>> Ta. Ta. Ta. It was a foreign sound even in this neighborhood
>>> accustomed to gunfire.
>>>
>>> "It wasn't like a normal (shooting). … It was like something more
>>> terrible," Brisa says. "A noise that you can't really explain."
>>>
>>
>> There is a very strong suspicion that this story has little basis and
>> is being used by anti-gunners to justify banning AR-15 looking rifles.
>>
>>
>
> Hoving looked at other data on the same area, I can agree with your
> statement.
Just Wondering
Feb 28, 2017, 5:34:59 AM2/28/17
to
On 2/27/2017 5:34 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
and organize the gang violence out of the communities.
Yeah, that should work Right???
> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>
>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>
> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is
> innocents that I have a problem.
>
Maybe Obama should return to Chicago as a community organizer,
>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>
>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>
> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is
> innocents that I have a problem.
>
and organize the gang violence out of the communities.
Yeah, that should work Right???
Just Wondering
Feb 28, 2017, 5:38:29 AM2/28/17
to
between a shot from a 1911 pistol and a shot from a MSR (that's an AR-15
Modern Sporting Rifle, for those who don't know the difference between a
civilian gun and a MR military rifle).
RD Sandman
Feb 28, 2017, 12:45:47 PM2/28/17
to
de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:iKmdnce7s9bvVSnF...@westnet.com.au:
robots on Mars.
RD Sandman
Feb 28, 2017, 12:46:48 PM2/28/17
to
Just Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> wrote in news:mnctA.2043$y66.520
@fx06.iad:
;)
I find it interesting that with all of Obama's claims...improving Chicago
isn't one of them.
@fx06.iad:
I find it interesting that with all of Obama's claims...improving Chicago
isn't one of them.
RD Sandman
Feb 28, 2017, 12:47:38 PM2/28/17
to
de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:iKmdnca7s9aZVCnFnZ2dnUU7-
e2d...@westnet.com.au:
It is from the liberal side....make your own judgement.
e2d...@westnet.com.au:
Just Wondering
Feb 28, 2017, 12:51:30 PM2/28/17
to
On 2/28/2017 10:45 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
to guns, but not nasty assault weapons and 500 round "clips".
But they should leave Venus alone, because Venus is a woman.
>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>>>
>>> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is
>>> innocents that I have a problem.
>>
>> that is what is being discussed
>
> Comments in this newsgroup tend to wander. It could end up
> being about robots on Mars.
>
I think robots on Mars is a fine idea. They should have access
>>>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>>>
>>> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is
>>> innocents that I have a problem.
>>
>> that is what is being discussed
>
> Comments in this newsgroup tend to wander. It could end up
> being about robots on Mars.
>
to guns, but not nasty assault weapons and 500 round "clips".
But they should leave Venus alone, because Venus is a woman.
RD Sandman
Feb 28, 2017, 12:56:56 PM2/28/17
to
Just Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> wrote in news:BMitA.2486$DM3.410
@fx41.iad:
Damn, I could get in line for that. Venus that is. BTW, that is my
primary doctor's name although it is spelled with an "i". Other than that
she fits the image. ;)
@fx41.iad:
primary doctor's name although it is spelled with an "i". Other than that
she fits the image. ;)
de chucka
Feb 28, 2017, 2:23:14 PM2/28/17
to
On 1/03/2017 4:56 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
> Just Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> wrote in news:BMitA.2486$DM3.410
> @fx41.iad:
>
>> On 2/28/2017 10:45 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 28/02/2017 11:34 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is
>>>>> innocents that I have a problem.
>>>>
>>>> that is what is being discussed
>>>
>>> Comments in this newsgroup tend to wander. It could end up
>>> being about robots on Mars.
>>>
>> I think robots on Mars is a fine idea. They should have access
>> to guns, but not nasty assault weapons and 500 round "clips".
>> But they should leave Venus alone, because Venus is a woman.
>>
>
> Damn, I could get in line for that. Venus that is. BTW, that is my
> primary doctor's name although it is spelled with an "i". Other than that
> she fits the image. ;)
Ienus is a strange name :-)
> Just Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> wrote in news:BMitA.2486$DM3.410
> @fx41.iad:
>
>> On 2/28/2017 10:45 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 28/02/2017 11:34 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is
>>>>> innocents that I have a problem.
>>>>
>>>> that is what is being discussed
>>>
>>> Comments in this newsgroup tend to wander. It could end up
>>> being about robots on Mars.
>>>
>> I think robots on Mars is a fine idea. They should have access
>> to guns, but not nasty assault weapons and 500 round "clips".
>> But they should leave Venus alone, because Venus is a woman.
>>
>
> Damn, I could get in line for that. Venus that is. BTW, that is my
> primary doctor's name although it is spelled with an "i". Other than that
> she fits the image. ;)
de chucka
Feb 28, 2017, 2:24:34 PM2/28/17
to
Just Wondering
Feb 28, 2017, 7:03:23 PM2/28/17
to
On 2/28/2017 10:56 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
> Just Wondering wrote :
> Just Wondering wrote :
>> On 2/28/2017 10:45 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 28/02/2017 11:34 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is
>>>>> innocents that I have a problem.
>>>>
>>>> that is what is being discussed
>>>
>>> Comments in this newsgroup tend to wander. It could end up
>>> being about robots on Mars.
>>>
>> I think robots on Mars is a fine idea. They should have access
>> to guns, but not nasty assault weapons and 500 round "clips".
>> But they should leave Venus alone, because Venus is a woman.
>
> Damn, I could get in line for that. Venus that is. BTW, that
> is my primary doctor's name although it is spelled with an "i".
> Other than that she fits the image. ;)
>
Have we wandered far enough yet?
>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 28/02/2017 11:34 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>>>> de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/02/2017 10:05 AM, col...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I think it's a fine thing for gang members to kill each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about the collateral damage :-( or is that OK with you?
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as it is gang members.....yes. It is when it is
>>>>> innocents that I have a problem.
>>>>
>>>> that is what is being discussed
>>>
>>> Comments in this newsgroup tend to wander. It could end up
>>> being about robots on Mars.
>>>
>> I think robots on Mars is a fine idea. They should have access
>> to guns, but not nasty assault weapons and 500 round "clips".
>> But they should leave Venus alone, because Venus is a woman.
>
> Damn, I could get in line for that. Venus that is. BTW, that
> is my primary doctor's name although it is spelled with an "i".
> Other than that she fits the image. ;)
>
Just Wondering
Feb 28, 2017, 7:03:53 PM2/28/17
to
de chucka
Feb 28, 2017, 7:24:44 PM2/28/17
to
snip
>> Damn, I could get in line for that. Venus that is. BTW, that
>> is my primary doctor's name although it is spelled with an "i".
>> Other than that she fits the image. ;)
>>
> Have we wandered far enough yet?
We could wander over to Venus where all the women come from
>> Damn, I could get in line for that. Venus that is. BTW, that
>> is my primary doctor's name although it is spelled with an "i".
>> Other than that she fits the image. ;)
>>
> Have we wandered far enough yet?
max headroom
Feb 28, 2017, 9:14:38 PM2/28/17
to
In news:edotA.25349$_g7....@fx05.iad, Just Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> typed:
I read the other day that Americans are from Mars and Europeans are from Venus. Is that out in the
weeds far enough?
weeds far enough?
Just Wondering
Mar 1, 2017, 3:15:10 AM3/1/17
to
On 2/28/2017 7:10 PM, max headroom wrote:
> Just Wondering typed:
Are libs and progs from Uranus?
> Just Wondering typed:
RD Sandman
Mar 1, 2017, 1:18:58 PM3/1/17
to
de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:6f-dnZEgC_qAUyjF...@westnet.com.au:
0 new messages