Real Americans are creationists
George
church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
WE ARE AMERICANS!
By Dr. Sam Gipp
We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known. Some
are jealous of our greatness, others are thankful for it. But, what
made America rise above every other country in history in greatness?
Was it our vast reserve of natural resources? No. Africa has far more
natural resources than we do yet it is a desperately poor continent.
Is it our form of government? No. Numerous countries have instituted
our form of government and yet failed to prosper as we have. Is it
free enterprise? No, numerous Eastern European countries have tried
free enterprise and have not excelled. So just what has made America
the greatest nation on earth? In a word, God.
Liberals would have us believe that America was founded with a
dedication to "free enterprise". That it was founded to be a "God
neutral", multi-cultural society. They teach little children that
America wasn't founded by Christians, but by "faith neutral" deists.
This simply isn't true. But, rather than claim America was founded on
the Bible by Christians, we will simply review the very words of the
founding Fathers themselves. (From Sam Gipp's booklet, We Are
Americans, Daystar Publishing,1-800-311-1823) Archived Newsletters
The Founding Fathers
Their Faith
Were they deists? In an attempt to hide the Christian founding of
America, many teachers and college professors claim that the founders
of the United States were not Christians but rather deist who believed
in an impersonal Deity but rejected the divinity of Jesus Christ and
the inspiration of the Bible. This simply isn�t true. Although both
Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were what may be referred to as
deists, the vast majority of the remaining founders were unapologetic,
born-again Christians. Let�s let them speak for themselves.
JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, the Sixth President of the United States, said, "My
hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ..."
JOHN JAY, Fist Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, said, "Unto Him who
is the Author and Giver of all good, I render sincere and humble
thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings and especially for our
redemption and salvation by His beloved Son...Blessed be his holy
name!" (John Jay's last will and testament)
GEORGE MASON, the Father of the Bill of Rights: "My soul I resign into
the hands of my Almighty Creator. Whose tender mercies are all over
His works, humbly hoping from His unbounded mercy and benevolence
through the merits of my blessed Savior, a remission of my sins?"
SAMUEL ADAMS, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, said,
"Principally and first of all, I recommend my soul to that Almighty
Being who gave it and my body I commit to dust, relying upon the
merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins." (Samuel Adam's
last will and testament.)
JOSIAH BARLETT, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, also said
"Firstly I commit my Soul into the hands of God, its great and
benevolent author."
DAVID BREARLEY, Signer of the Constitution, stated, "First and
principally, I commit my Soul unto Almighty God."
CHARLES CARROL, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, said, "On
the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits; not
on the works which I have done in obedience to His precepts."
GABRIEL DUVALL, selected as a Delegate to the Constitution Convention
and a U.S. Supreme Court Justice, boldly declared, "I resign my soul
into the hands of the Almighty who gave it in humble hopes of his
mercy through our Lord Jesus Christ."
JOHN HART, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, said, "[T]hanks
be given unto Almighty God therefore, and knowing that it is appointed
for all men once to die and after that the judgment [Hebrews 9:27] ...
principally, I give and recommend my soul into the hands of Almighty
God who gave it and my body to the earth to be buried in a decent and
Christian like manner ... to receive the same again at the general
resurrection by the mighty power of God."
JOHN DICKINSON, a General during the American Revolution and a signer
of the Constitution, declared: Rendering thanks to my Creator...for my
birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel...to Him I resign myself,
humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ
for the events of eternity. (John Dickinsons last will and testament.)
RODGER SHERMAN, Signer of both the Declaration and the Constitution,
"I believe that there is only one living and true God, existing in
three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy ghost, the same
substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and
new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct
us how we may glorify and enjoy Him."
ROBERT TREAT PAINE, Signer of the Declaration declared: "I am
constrained to express my adoration of the Supreme Being - the Author
of my existence - in full belief of...His forgiving mercy revealed to
the world through Jesus Christ, through Whom I hope for never ending
happiness in a future state." (From the Last Will and Testament of
Robert Treat Paine, attested May 11, 1814)
GUNNING BEDFORD, Signer of the Constitution declared: "To the triune
Dod - Teh Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost - be ascribed all honer
and dominion, forevermore - Amen."
RICHARD STOCKTON, Signer of the Declaration stated: [I] subscribe to
the entire belief of the great and leading doctrines of the Christian
religion...[and I exhort] that the course of life held up in the
Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness that
can be enjoyed in this mortal state." (From the Last Will & Testament
of Richard Stockton, attested May 20, 1780)
DR. BENJAMIN RUSH, Signer of the Declaration said, "My only hope of
salvation is in the infinite transcent love of God manifested to the
world by the death of His Son upon the Cross. Nothing but His blood
will wash away my sins [Acts 22:16]. I rely exclusively upon it. Come,
Lord Jesus! Come quickly!" [Revelation 22:20]
GEORGE WASHINGTON prayed, "Almighty God,...I beseech thee, my sins,
remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west,
and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I
come into thy temple, and compass thine alter, my prayer may come
before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee
in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling upon me in thy
Word...for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and rose again for us,
Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen."
The following inscription is found on a granite memorial at the grave
of George Washington in Mount Vernon. It was written by Mrs. John
Washington, the wife of George's nephew.
*** A sincere Christian***
Doing in all things the will of his Master***
And resting his hope of eternal happiness***
Alone on the righteousness of Jesus Christ. ***
Even THOMAS JEFFERSON, called a deist by many, called himself a
Christian. He stated that his views were, "the result of a life of
inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian
system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the
corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the
genuine precepts of Jesus Himself. I am a Christian in the true sense
in which He wished anyone to be, sincerely attached to His doctrines
in preference to all others..."
Notice several important things about Mr. Jefferson's statement.
First, that it stands in contrast to what some today claim of him.
Second, during those days in which this country was founded, Jefferson
saw nothing negative attached to be considered a Christian, unlike
some of today's politicians and teachers. Third, he not only saw no
negative stigma to Christianity, but he himself wanted to be included
with those who wore that label. This is not the Thomas Jefferson of
the average college political science class.
Their esteem for the Bible and Christian principles
Today many politicians, educators and entertainers have little regard
for the Bible or Christianity. They mock it, disdain it or try to
raise the writing of heathen religions to equal status in hopes of
being considered "political correct". But the Founding Fathers would
not be found among them if they were alive today. They were open and
shameless concerning their reverence for God, Jesus Christ and the
Bible and the conviction that to turn to the Bible and Christianity
would be beneficial to anyone.
Our first president, GEORGE WASHINGTON said, "It is impossible to
rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political
prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports."
JOHN ADAMS, our second president said, "The Bible is the best book in
the world." He also believed, "Suppose a nation in some distant region
should take the Bible for their own law book, and every member should
regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited... what a utopia;
what a paradise this region would be."
Our third president, THOMAS JEFFERSON, our second president said, "The
Bible is the source of liberty." He further stated. "The Bible makes
the best people in the world."
JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, our sixth president said, So great is my veneration
of the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read it, the more
confident will be my hope that they will prove useful citizens to
their country and respectable members of society. I have for many
years made it a practice to read through the Bible once a year."
If a president, politician or anyone else made any of these statements
today the liberal bullies in the News Media would viciously attack
them. But it is they who are wrong, not our Founding Fathers and not
those who would espouse Christianity today. The intolerant tyrants in
the News Media are to be ignored and chastened for their shameless
bigoted hatred for the faith of the founders of this great nation.
But these views were not limited to just our early presidents. ROBERT
TREAT PAINE said, "I believe the Bible to be the written word of God
and to contain in it the whole rule of faith and manners."
Chief Justice, JOHN JAY urged, "The Bible is the best of all books,
for it is the Word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this
world and the next. Continue, therefore, to read it and to regulate
your life by its precepts."
ABRAHAM BALDWIN, a Signer of the Constitution advised, "It should
therefore be among the first objects of those who wish well to the
national prosperity to encourage and support the principles of
religion and morality."
OLIVER ELLSWORTH a member of the Constitutional Convention and the
third Chief-Justice of the Supreme Court, declared, "The primary
objects of government are the peace, order, and prosperity of
society...To the promotion of these objects, particularly in a
republican government, good morals are essential. Institutions for the
promotion of good morals are therefore objects of legislative
provision and support: and among these...religious institutions are
eminently useful and important."
So we see that the views of our Founders were that the Bible and its
teachings were superior to any and every belief system on earth.
Having no television through which to be intimidated and cowered, they
did not feel at all bigoted or intolerant about their views. The fact
is, if they were alive today the News Media would protray them as
intolerant, higher education would declare them religious extremists
and tyrannic liberal judges would accuse them of violating the very
Constitution that they wrote!
*******************************THEIR EVANGELISTIC
FERVOR************************************
The argument may be put forth by those who are desperate to obliterate
the Christian history of the United States that, although these men
were indeed Christians, they had too much character to propagate their
faith to others. That simply isn�t true.
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN desired to start a colony in Ohio with the Rev.
George Whitefield to facilitate the introduction of pure religion
among the heathen in order to show the Indians a better sample of
Christians than they commonly see in our Indian traders.
GEORGE WASHINGTON told a gathering of Indians, "You do well to wish to
learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus
Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you
are."
JOHN JAY the first Chief-Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court stated,
"I...recommend a general and public return of praise and thanksgiving
to Him from whose goodness these blessings descend. The most effectual
means of securing the continuance of our civil and religious liberties
is always to remember with reverence and gratitude the source from
which they flow."
If a public official made such a statement, today the slave masters in
the News Media would go through the roof criticizing him for his
freedom of speech.
JOHN WITHERSPOON, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, said, "I
shall now entreat...you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus
Christ, for there is no salvation in any other [Acts 4:12]...(I)f you
are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must
forever perish."
JACOB BROOM, Signer of the Constitution, "Dont forget to be a
Christian. I have said much to you on this head and I hope an
indelible impression is made."
JOHN JAY, the original Chief-Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, stated
"I have long been of the opinion that the evidence of the truth of
Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce
conviction in candid minds, and I think they who undertake that task
will derive advantages. . . ."
THE FOUNDING OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
So, was this great nation founded to advance multi-culturalism, enjoy
free enterprise or pretend that there was no God to answer to for our
actions? The Founding Fathers can explain it best.
JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, the Sixth President of the United States, said
concerning the founding of the United States, The highest glory of the
American Revolution was this: that it connected in one indissoluble
bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of
Christianity..."
The greatest thing PATRICK HENRY said was not, "Give me liberty or
give me death." Outstanding though that courageous statement was, the
greatest thing Patrick Henry ever said was, 'It cannot be emphasized
too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by
religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel
of Jesus Christ."
Even those in Congress recognized that America was founded to be
distinctly Christian rather than multi-cultural.
In 1853 THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE of the United States declared:
"We are Christians, not because the law demands it... but from choice
and education...But they [the Founders] had no fear or jealousy of
religion itself, nor did they wish to see us an irreligious
people...they did not intend to spread over all the public authorities
and the whole public action of the nation the dead and revolting
spectacle of atheistic apathy."
In 1854 THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE of the United States affirmed
the same thing: "Had the people during the revolution had any
suspicion of an attempt to war against Christianity, that revolution
would have been strangled in its cradle...At the time of the adoption
of the constitution and its amendments the universal sentiment was
that Christianity should be encouraged...That was the religion of the
founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion
of their decedents."
America's founding was so steeped in Bible that even that fountain of
disinformation, Newsweek, couldn�t deny it. In the December 27, 1982
edition in an article entitled "How the Bible Made America", this
bastion of anti-Americanism had to admit that the Bible "has exerted
an unrivaled influence on American culture, politics and social life,
now historians are discovering that the Bible, perhaps even more than
the Constitution, is our founding document...Bible study was the core
of public education and nearly every literate family not only owned a
Bible but read it regularly and reverently...Because of this Biblical
influence, the United States seemed to Europeans (sic) to be one vast
public congregation- a nation with the soul of a church."
Are people of other faiths welcome here? Yes, they�re welcome here.
But once they get here they are to forsake their inferior religion and
join up with the Christianity of America. The god of their ancestors
wasn�t able to make their country as great as the God of the Bible
made America. So why stick with a loser god? Come to America and
accept Americas God and enjoy the blessings of that God. Think about
it. The god/s of the Hindus have certainly not made India greater than
the USA. Why would we or even Indian emigrants want to stick with
those impotent gods? Buddha has not produced any great nations. Why
stick with Buddha? The god of Islam thinks murdering school children
on a bus is a virtuous act and Heaven is an orgy. Who would keep such
a god once they have access to the true, living and loving God of the
Bible? America was never intended to be a nation of many faiths. It
was intended to be a nation of one God, the God of the Bible.
Was the United States of America intended to be a "Christian" nation?
Not only was that the intention, but it was universally accepted that
it was a Christian nation. In 1892, the U.S. Supreme Court, after
conducting a thorough and unbiased review of American history
declared, "There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a
universal language pervading them all, having one meaning; they affirm
and reaffirm that this is a religious nation....this is a Christian
nation."
Today, the bullies in academia and the News Media have forced us to
allow atheists and God-haters as an integral part of our society. But
it was not always so. None other than BENJAMIN FRANKLIN wrote in a
tract encouraging immigration to the United States, "Bad examples to
youth are more rare in America, which must be a com�fortable
consideration to parents. To this may be truly added, that serious
religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but
respect�ed and practiced. Atheism is unknown there; infidelity rare
and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country
without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist
or an Infidel."
***************************************GOD WINS! 50 to 0!
*****************************************
The facts of history illustrate the this nation never intended to be
"God neutral." Public displays of worship and subservience to the God
of creation have always been made matter-of-factly. There can be no
greater example of this than casual and unapologetic declarations
concerning God in the constitutions of every one of the fifty states!
Alabama 1901, Preamble, "We the people of the State of Alabama,
invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and
establish the following Constitution..."
Alaska 1956, Preamble, "We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and
to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land..."
Arizona 1911, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Arizona,
grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this
Constitution..."
Arkansas 1874, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Arkansas,
grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of
government..."
California 1879, Preamble, " We, the People of the State of
California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom..."
Colorado 1876, Preamble, "We, the people of Colorado, with profound
reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe..."
Connecticut 1818, Preamble, "The People of Connecticut, acknowledging
with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to
enjoy..."
Delaware 1897, Preamble, "Through Divine Goodness all men have, by
nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according
to the dictates of their consciences."
Florida 1885, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Florida,
grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty establish this
Constitution..."
Georgia 1777, Preamble, "We, the people of Georgia, relying upon
protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this
Constitution..."
Hawaii 1959, Preamble, "We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine
Guidance...establish this Constitution."
Idaho 1889, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful
to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings..."
Illinois 1870, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Illinois,
grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious
liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him
for a blessing on our endeavors."
Indiana 1851, Preamble, "We, the People of the State of Indiana,
grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose
our form of government."
Iowa 1857, Preamble, "We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to
the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our
dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings... establish
this Constitution..."
Kansas 1859, Preamble, "We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty
God for our civil and religious privileges...establish this
Constitution."
Kentucky 1891, Preamble, "We, the people of the Commonwealth of
Kentucky grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and
religious liberties..."
Louisiana 1921, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Louisiana,
grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious
liberties we enjoy."
Maine 1820, Preamble, "We the People of Maine...acknowledging with
grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in
affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction."
Maryland 1776, Preamble, "We, the people of the state of Maryland,
grateful to Almighty God or our civil and religious liberty..."
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble, "We...the people of Massachusetts,
acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great
Legislator of the Universe . in the course of His Providence, an
opportunity ..and devoutly imploring His direction."
Michigan 1908, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Michigan,
grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom...establish this
Constitution..."
Minnesota 1857, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Minnesota,
grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to
perpetuate its blessings..."
Mississippi 1890, Preamble, "We, the people of Mississippi in
convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His
blessing on our work."
Missouri 1845, Preamble, "We, the people of Missouri, with profound
reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His
goodness...establish this Constitution .."
Montana 1889, Preamble, "We, the people of Montana, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of liberty. establish this
Constitution..."
Nebraska 1875, Preamble, "We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for
our freedom...establish this Constitution."
Nevada 1864, Preamble, "We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful
to Almighty God for our freedom establish this Constitution..."
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V., "Every individual has a
natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates
of his own conscience."
New Jersey 1844, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of New Jersey,
grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath
so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on
our endeavors..."
New Mexico 1911, Preamble, "We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..."
New York 1846, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of New York,
grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its
blessings."
North Carolina 1868, Preamble, "We the people of the State of North
Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations,
for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging
our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those..."
North Dakota 1889, Preamble, "We, the people of North Dakota, grateful
to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do
ordain..."
Ohio 1852, Preamble, "We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote
our common."
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble, "Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in
order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty..."
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2., "All men shall be
secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the
dictates of their consciences..."
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble, "We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful
to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and
humbly invoking His guidance."
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble, "We the People of the State of Rhode
Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty
which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a
blessing."
South Carolina, 1778, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of South
Carolina, grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish
this Constitution."
South Dakota 1889, Preamble, "We, the people of South Dakota, grateful
to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties...establish
this..."
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III., "That all men have a natural and
indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates
of their conscience..."
Texas 1845, Preamble, "We the People of the Republic of Texas,
acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God."
Utah 1896, Preamble, "Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty,
we establish this Constitution..."
Vermont 1777, Preamble, "Whereas all government ought to...enable the
individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other
blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man..."
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI, "Religion, or the Duty which we
owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason...and that it is
the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and
Charity towards each other..."
Washington 1889, Preamble, "We the People of the State of Washington,
grateful! to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do
ordain this Constitution."
West Virginia 1872, Preamble, "Since through Divine Providence we
enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the
people of West Virginia...reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance
upon God..."
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble, "We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility..."
Wyoming 1890, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Wyoming,
grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious
liberties...establish this Constitution..."
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO AMERICA
The question begs to be asked, how did the only nation in history
founded on the Bible and its God become so "tolerant" of paganism,
heathenism and atheism? The answer is as simple as it is sad.
The United States of America is the only nation in history that was
Christian from its founding. Every other nation (with the exception of
Israel) was pagan and had to be "Christianized." The United States was
Christian and had to be "paganized." Powers that hated God, His Book
and His country set about to do that very thing.
There have always been people in this country who hated God and
resented Him being the God of this country. For most of our history,
these people have been ignored and kept on the sideline while those
who were true to the founding of this country ran it. Occasionally
they made attempts to gain control of the helm but they were always
thwarted by God-conscious Americans who, in spite of shortcomings in
their personal lives, acknowledged the preeminence of God.
But slowly, the attention of Americans was carefully steered to less
important, but all-consuming pursuits. Slowly, sports, education,
money, and world acceptance absorbed all of the attention of Americas
citizenry. They became more interested in this months new movie than
the voting record of their congressional representative. It wasnt a
matter of supreme trust in their representatives as much a supreme
disinterest - supreme preoccupation.
Then, ever-so-slowly, dishonest educators fooled a generation into
believing that the United States was intended to be a land of multiple
faiths. These mini-dictators hid their hatred for the God of America
behind their insincere demand for "tolerance", all the while being
intolerant of the God upon which this great nation was founded.
The God that made it the greatest nation in the world. It has been
said that, Americans quit thinking the day after they got their
television sets". That is a sadly realistic evaluation. "Americans
quit thinking and instead simply believed every television special
that falsely declared that our founders were really deists, and that
America was founded to establish free enterprise and it was intended
to be "multi-cultural". Then, the facts of American history were
replaced with "revisionist" (read that false) fairy tales. Soon, the
God-haters were using our public school system to reproduce citizens
after their own image.
SAMUEL ADAMS` referred to these people as "internal invaders", as
deadly and dangerous as any invading army sent to our shores to
destroy our country. "A general dissolution of the principles and
manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the
whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous, they
cannot be subdued, but when once they lose their virtue, they will be
ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal
invader."
These "internal invaders" have taken over the teaching duties in our
schools, colleges and universities. They ruthlessly run the nations
newsrooms and many of them are our favorite entertainers. When an army
invades and conquers a country they change its social fabric. That is
exactly what these invaders have done. They have rewritten our
history, thrown God out of our schools, set up clinics to murder our
babies and generally demanded subservience to their gods and their
social ideals. We are victims of an occupying army that wish to
eradicate every visage of our country just as thoroughly as if we had
been conquered by a communist or Muslim country.
**************************************PROPAGATING
"ADDICTIONS"*******************************
The invaders took over our schools and replaced academic excellence
with courses based on their immoral social values. Once the citizens
of the United States were sufficiently dumbed-down there was another
necessary step to be taken. The movers & shakers of paganist teaching
had to gain absolute, iron-clad control of their lives. The only way
to control someone is to get them addicted to something and then
control the source of their personal drug. Thus, public schools boldly
introduced drugs to children to control them. Through movies, public
schools and the new morality sex, alcohol, gambling, environmentalism,
pornography and other addictive, destructive actions were introduced
into the lives of unsuspecting Americans. The very victims of these
acts knew these things were wrong but, they were so enjoyable that
they allowed themselves to be swept up and corrupted until now, if
anyone calls for a curbing of such actions, they foolishly stand
against it.
[Give Us the Young (Control of Science and Religion) -
If you have a tattoo, body piercing, drug habit, morality problem, it
is not because you are exceedingly wicked. It is because you have been
duped. Someone smarter, and far more wicked than you, has corrupted
you and is now confident you will do their bidding for fear of having
the source of your addiction dry up. Hollywood, public education and
the News Media want your children to be homosexual, drug-addicted,
alcoholics who are so given to the desires of the flesh that they will
never take any action that might reduce the availability of their
favored vice.
The result of this wicked practice is a nation of seemingly selfish,
carnal, vile, immoral pagans who want to know nothing more than the
location of the next party.
Thus we now see a generation whose sole goal in life seems to be a
minor part in Girls Gone Wild. Over two hundred years ago our Founders
knew a populace without God and morality would lead to the end of our
nation.
JOHN ADAMS our second President observed, "Our Constitution was made
only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the
government of any other."
WILLIAM PATERSON, a signer of the Constitution and a Justice on the
U.S. Supreme Court, castigated his own generation when he saw them
turning away from God to frolic and sensualism, "Infatuated Americans,
why renounce your country, your religion, and your God? Oh shame,
where is thy blush? Is this the way to continue independent, and to
render the 4th of July immortal in memory and song?" (July 4th was
originally set aside as a national day of fasting and prayer to thank
God for the countries victory in the War of Independence. My, my
hasn�t it changed?)
WILLIAM PENN warned, "Those people who will not be governed by God
will be ruled by tyrants."
The poor character of our leaders is a direct reflection of the poor
character of our citizenry. PRESIDENT JAMES GARFIELD reminded
Americans at our nation�s one hundredth birthday, "Now, more than ever
before, the people are responsible for the character of their
Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt, it is
because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption.
If it be intelligent, brave, and pure, it is because the people demand
these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature...
[I]f the next centennial does not find us a great nation...it will be
because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the
morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political
forces."
ROBERT WINTHROP, Speaker of the House of Representatives (1847-1849)
explained it this way, "Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled
either by a power within them or a power without them, either by the
Word of God or by the strong arm of man, either by the Bible or the
bayonet."
Christianity instills and empowers the power within a person to resist
and overcome the forces of evil. As our young people are trained to be
totally unrestrained, they lose all "power within." They think they
don�t want to resist evil but what they do not realize is that they do
not possess the power to do so even if they did wish to resist. They
are slaves and their masters in the media are giving the commands that
they do not have the power within to resist...to their own
destruction.
Among others, NOAH WEBSTER, educator and the author of the first
American dictionary, plainly saw the danger in this unrestricted
wantonness. "The principles of all genuine liberty and of wise laws
and administrations are to be drawn from the Bible and sustained by
its authority. The man therefore who weakens or destroys the divine
authority of that book may be accessory to all the public disorders
which society is doomed to suffer."
Thus, according to Webster, the disorder, hedonism and immorality that
is rampant in our country is to be laid directly on the doorstep of
the Bible rejecters who have permeated the upper echelons of our
society.
Even Thomas Paine, not one who was ever considered a "paragon" of
Christianity, saw the real culprit in the corruption of American
youth." When we study the elements of geometry, we think of Euclid.
When we speak of gravitation, we think of Newton. How is it then, that
when we study the works of God in the creation, we stop short, and do
not think of God? It is from the error of the schools in having taught
those subjects as accomplishments only and thereby separated the study
of them from the Being who is the Author of them....
"The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools in teaching
natural philosophy as an accomplishment only has been that of
generating in the pupils a species of atheism.
"Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator
Himself, they stop short and employ the knowledge they acquire to
create doubts of His existence. They labor with studied ingenuity to
ascribe everything they behold to innate properties of matter and jump
over all the rest by saying that matter is eternal....
"And when we speak of looking through nature up to natures God we
speak philosophically the same rational language as when we speak of
looking through human laws up to the Power that ordained them.
"God is the power of first cause, nature is the law, and matter is the
subject acted upon.
"But infidelity, by ascribing every phenomenon to properties of
matter, conceives a system for which it cannot account, and yet it
pretends to demonstrate."
WHAT CAN YOU DO
your country is in grave danger. Are in grave danger. Your children
and their children are in grave danger. If the slide away from God
continues, and that small, vicious minority who hate Him are allowed
to continue to hold sway over the will of the majority, then this
country stands to end up like all great pagan civilizations of the
past. It will fall. Freedom will cease to exist. Blood will flow in
the streets. Terror and grief will be everyday acquaintances. If you
count yourself a patriot and love this country then what can you do to
stop the slide?
Who better to go to for advice than to the man ever known as "The
Father of Our Country?" Our very first president, GEORGE WASHINGTON,
would tell you, "To the distinguished character of patriot, it should
be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of
Christian."
Even as you read this booklet you may realize your own moral
weaknesses and the danger you are in because of them. No one is
judging or berating you for this. Rather, someone is trying to rescue
you. Do you want to be rescued? Here�s what to do:
1. Apologize to God - It takes honesty to admit you�re wrong. It take
real character go humble yourself and apologize. You know God has been
good to you. Not only have your sins been against Him, but your self-
serving nature has caused you to place yourself in a position superior
to God. It isn�t wise to compete with God. Why don�t you simply bow
your head and apologize to God for what you know to be your
shortcomings?
Wait! It you�re about to excuse your actions by blaming someone else,
save your breath. Any cheap, intellectual midget can play the "Blame
Game". If you�re going to claim that its one of your parents fault,
your spouse, your boss or anyone else then you�re not really taking
responsibility for your actions.
bpuharic
<gbur...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
>church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
>will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
>it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
> WE ARE AMERICANS!
>
>By Dr. Sam Gipp
>
>We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known. Some
>are jealous of our greatness, others are thankful for it. But, what
>made America rise above every other country in history in greatness?
>Was it our vast reserve of natural resources? No. Africa has far more
>natural resources than we do yet it is a desperately poor continent.
>Is it our form of government? No. Numerous countries have instituted
>our form of government and yet failed to prosper as we have. Is it
>free enterprise? No, numerous Eastern European countries have tried
>free enterprise and have not excelled. So just what has made America
>the greatest nation on earth? In a word, God.
That's true. no nation ever tried god.
>
>Liberals would have us believe that America was founded with a
>dedication to "free enterprise"
really? ask dick cheney if he thinks liberals believe in 'free
enterprise'.
.. That it was founded to be a "God
>neutral", multi-cultural society. They teach little children that
>America wasn't founded by Christians, but by "faith neutral" deists.
>This simply isn't true. But, rather than claim America was founded on
>the Bible by Christians, we will simply review the very words of the
>founding Fathers themselves. (From Sam Gipp's booklet, We Are
>Americans, Daystar Publishing,1-800-311-1823) Archived Newsletters
check, instead, conservative presidential historian richard
brookhiser. he states that about 10% of the founding fathers were
atheists or agnostics.
>
>The Founding Fathers
>
>Their Faith
>
>Were they deists? In an attempt to hide the Christian founding of
>America, many teachers and college professors claim that the founders
>of the United States were not Christians but rather deist who believed
>in an impersonal Deity but rejected the divinity of Jesus Christ and
>the inspiration of the Bible. This simply isn�t true. Although both
>Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were what may be referred to as
>deists, the vast majority of the remaining founders were unapologetic,
>born-again Christians. Let�s let them speak for themselves.
ah. the MAJORITY were...but not ALL of them were.
kind of like the difference between lightening and lightening bug...
>Even THOMAS JEFFERSON, called a deist by many, called himself a
>Christian. He stated that his views were, "the result of a life of
>inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian
>system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the
>corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the
>genuine precepts of Jesus Himself. I am a Christian in the true sense
>in which He wished anyone to be, sincerely attached to His doctrines
>in preference to all others..."
i suggest you get a copy of the 'jeffereson bible'. he took a razor
blade to the bible, removing any mention of miracles, the divinity of
jesus, etc.
not much comfort there for creationists. in addition, he wrote the 1st
amendment. not much comfort there, either.
>
>Notice several important things about Mr. Jefferson's statement.
>First, that it stands in contrast to what some today claim of him.
>Second, during those days in which this country was founded, Jefferson
>saw nothing negative attached to be considered a Christian, unlike
>some of today's politicians and teachers. Third, he not only saw no
>negative stigma to Christianity, but he himself wanted to be included
>with those who wore that label. This is not the Thomas Jefferson of
>the average college political science class.
>
>Their esteem for the Bible and Christian principles
>
>Today many politicians, educators and entertainers have little regard
>for the Bible or Christianity. They mock it, disdain it or try to
>raise the writing of heathen religions to equal status in hopes of
>being considered "political correct". But the Founding Fathers would
>not be found among them if they were alive today. They were open and
>shameless concerning their reverence for God, Jesus Christ and the
>Bible and the conviction that to turn to the Bible and Christianity
>would be beneficial to anyone.
really? like who? it's political suicide to be non-religious. care to
name names?
>
>The facts of history illustrate the this nation never intended to be
>"God neutral."
really?
care to find god in the constitution? if so, please cite the
reference.
when john adams was asked why god wasn't in the constitution, he joked
'we forgot'.
seems the founding fathers thought god was so essential to america
that when they wrote the constitution they didn't mention him at
all...EXCEPT to say religion couldn't be used as a test for govt
officials AND to say that the govt couldn't establish a religion
so your point is....irrelevant
>
>WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO AMERICA
>
>The question begs to be asked, how did the only nation in history
>founded on the Bible and its God become so "tolerant" of paganism,
>heathenism and atheism? The answer is as simple as it is sad.
yeah, i guess the jews moved in,eh?
>
>The United States of America is the only nation in history that was
>Christian from its founding.
funny that washington wrote to the president of a synagogue in rhode
island stating exactly the opposite.
and you realize that none of this matters.
the ONLY thing that matters is the constitution.
Every other nation (with the exception of
>Israel) was pagan and had to be "Christianized."
i'm sure that'll come as a surprise to the islamic republic of iran,
the islamic republic of pakistan, the islamic republic of saudi
arabia, etc etc etc
and, of course, the UK which, to this day, has a state church...as
does italy...
both of which are christian
T
>
>There have always been people in this country who hated God
or hated the idea of a state religion...like the virginia baptists who
protested at being taxed to support the anglican religion of virginia.
>
>Then, ever-so-slowly, dishonest educators fooled a generation into
>believing that the United States was intended to be a land of multiple
>faiths.
kind of shows you what the creationist view of america is, doesn't it?
no religious freedom. no jews. no muslims. no mormons. if you're in an
area where protestants are dominant, the catholic church would be
outlawed...
as it was in many places in the US.
>
>The invaders took over our schools and replaced academic excellence
>with courses based on their immoral social values. Once the citizens
>of the United States were sufficiently dumbed-down there was another
>necessary step to be taken. The movers & shakers of paganist teaching
>had to gain absolute, iron-clad control of their lives. The only way
>to control someone is to get them addicted to something and then
>control the source of their personal drug. Thus, public schools boldly
>introduced drugs to children to control them.
really? schools push drugs? can we say 'paranoia'?
Through movies, public
>schools and the new morality sex, alcohol, gambling, environmentalism,
environmentalism is evil??
>
>If you have a tattoo, body piercing, drug habit, morality problem, it
>is not because you are exceedingly wicked. It is because you have been
>duped. Someone smarter, and far more wicked than you, has corrupted
>you and is now confident you will do their bidding for fear of having
>the source of your addiction dry up. Hollywood, public education and
>the News Media want your children to be homosexual, drug-addicted,
>alcoholics who are so given to the desires of the flesh that they will
>never take any action that might reduce the availability of their
>favored vice.
>
>The result of this wicked practice is a nation of seemingly selfish,
>carnal, vile, immoral pagans who want to know nothing more than the
>location of the next party.
yeah, i guess when slavery was legal in the US, and it was a christian
nation, everything was fine.
>Thus we now see a generation whose sole goal in life seems to be a
>minor part in Girls Gone Wild. Over two hundred years ago our Founders
>knew a populace without God and morality would lead to the end of our
>nation.
>
>JOHN ADAMS our second President observed, "Our Constitution was made
>only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the
>government of any other."
and slaves counted as 3/5th of a person
>
>Christianity instills and empowers the power within a person to resist
>and overcome the forces of evil.
as christians are doing TODAY...this very day in uganda where they're
debating a christian bill to commit genocide against gays??
>
>Wait! It you�re about to excuse your actions by blaming someone else,
>save your breath. Any cheap, intellectual midget can play the "Blame
>Game". If you�re going to claim that its one of your parents fault,
>your spouse, your boss or anyone else then you�re not really taking
>responsibility for your actions.
bin laden would be proud of this post. especially the part about
allowing only 1 religion
this is the creationist view of america
Desertphile
<gbur...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> If young people do not know where they have come from....
... then the parents should educate them, including condom use.
> We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known.
What nation would that be? Sweeden?
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
John Harshman
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
Thank you so much for cutting and pasting this tract, which in fact has
no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await your
favorable reply before proceeding.
[snip]
raven1
<gbur...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>Were they deists? In an attempt to hide the Christian founding of
>America, many teachers and college professors claim that the founders
>of the United States were not Christians but rather deist who believed
>in an impersonal Deity but rejected the divinity of Jesus Christ and
>the inspiration of the Bible. This simply isn�t true. Although both
>Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were what may be referred to as
>deists, the vast majority of the remaining founders were unapologetic,
>born-again Christians.
The contemporary idea of a "born-again Christian" is a late 19th
century invention. The Founding Fathers wouldn't have understood what
the hell you were talking about if you had asked them if they were
"born again".
R. Baldwin
news:be4dd83f-6259-452e...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
[snip]
George, it may surprise you, but this is an international newsgroup, and
many people who post here are citizens of the United Kingdom, Australia,
Canada, the Netherlands, or other places. In other words, this is not an
American newsgroup.
You are also greatly deceived both about what liberals think, and about
what the founders of the United States thought.
Some liberals are interested in history, and some are not. Those that
are tend to be interested in how history actually happened, regardless
as to whether historical viewpoints match their own.
In regards to the founders, their views varied widely, with some
desiring state religion and others opposing it. Those that desired state
religion tended to want the state religion of the former colony in which
they dwelt. Since the pre-U.S. colonies were founded at different times
by different sects, this did not reflect common ground. Virginian
Anglicans would never have accepted a state religion promulgated by
Massachussetts Puritans, or Pennsylvanian Quakers, and vice versa.
Many of the founders opposed state religion, either out of concern that
a different state's religion would prevail, or because they saw how
European tyrants abused religion for state purposes and did not desire
that for America.
Very few politicians of that era would admit to atheism, agnosticism, or
deism, because it would have been political suicide. Thomas Paine was an
exception, with his notable attack on Religion in "Age of Reason."
Your post was mistaken in citing Franklin and Jefferson as supporting
the founding of American government on the Bible. They clearly did not.
Benjamin Franklin appears to have been fairly indifferent to relgion on
a personal basis, using its language when it suited his political
purposes, and at other times discarding it. For example, in his 1745
article to John Franklin he makes a cynical calculation about the
"forty-five millions of prayers" made for British success against the
French at Cape Breton, and notes that he has "more dependance on works,
than on faith" in such military matters.
In a 1780 letter to Richard Price, Franklin writes "When a Religion is
good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support
itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors
are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I
apprehend, of its being a bad one." This is hardly support for founding
a Government on the Bible.
Thomas Jefferson in 1786 authored an Act for establishing Religions
Freedom in Virginia. Its opening words are "Well aware that Almighty God
hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by
temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only
to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the
plan of the Holy Author of our religion, who, being Lord both of body
and of mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as
was in his Almighty power to do, that the impious presumption of
legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being
themselves but fallible and uninspired men have assumed dominion over
the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking
as the only ture and infallible, and as such endeavouring to impose them
on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the
greatest part of the world, and through all time..."
In Notes on the Commonwealth of Virginia, Jefferson wrote "The
legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are
injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say
there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks
my leg."
Thurisaz the Einherjer
might have a brain after all.
--
Romans 2:24 revised:
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you
cretinists, as it is written on aig."
My personal judgment of monotheism: http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
Eric Root
Never mind him! Post the mating habits of the mustelids! Pleeeeeeze.
Eric Root
Eric Root
>
Yes, America was founded by Christians, but where creationists are
being dishonest, is that our country was founded by normal, mentally-
healthy mainstream Christians, dedicated to religious freedom , and
_not_ by extremist, crackpot, holy-roller, right-wing anti-American
science-haters such as fill the ranks of the creationists.
For one thing, Biblical inerrancy is an, in all due respect,
ridiculous conceit with no more conceivable mechanism ( and no more
deserving of respect) than a flat earth or a moon made of green
cheese. Christianity doesn't need it, it doesn't belong. You might
as well conduct your church services in a clown suit.
George, please take this as constructive criticism and try to fix your
life before you stab any more of your fellow Americans and Christians,
let alone folks from other countries, in the back.
Eric Root
John Wilkins
<039628a2-1985-45f0...@s20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Eric Root <er...@swva.net> wrote:
I suspect he's referring to the mating habits of the sociocultural
mustelids...
VoiceOfReason
themselves "real" Americans? Usually, they're the ones that express
contempt for the Constitution and the democratic process
VoiceOfReason
> In article
> <039628a2-1985-45f0-8a7f-fabc89bd1...@s20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
As long as he doesn't mention the Irish.
chris thompson
Quit weaseling and do it. Or at least consider your otter options. Or
are you a fisher of men?
Chris
Stephen
Regards,
Stephen
guscubed
You don't think there are enough fucking weasels on TO?
Jim
So, George, what would you do to those of us who are not only American
citizens but also religiously tolerant non-Christians and liberals to
boot? How would you change the Constitution to make this country the
'real America'? Would the 'real America' be a Christian republic like
the Islamic republics? How would your America differ from Saudi
Arabia or Iran (aside from the name of the religion, of course)?
Davej
> [...]
> We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known.
I think that is actually a rather silly claim. I also don't care what
the founding fathers thought about God or what they thought about
phrenology or the medical usefulness of leeches.
Burkhard
Leaving ta anachronism aside (the whole "born again" movement is much
later, you might be on there to something. it would explain why the US
were basically founded on genocide, continuing the biblical tradition.
<snip irrelevance to ToE>
>
richardal...@googlemail.com
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
>
> read more �
Note that the sources you are using are in some cases blatantly lying
about the views of the founding fathers of the USA.
What do you think that tells us about their moral values?
RF
Ilas
0dd8bf...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> WE ARE AMERICANS!
>
> By Dr. Sam Gipp
>
> We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known.
I'm not trying to start a Europe/rest of the world vs USA thing here, but
I've heard that claim made many a time. Other than militarily (which
certainly makes the USA the strongest nation the world has ever known, if
not the greatest), how on Earth can that be quantified? I asked somebody
that very thing in a bar in Wyoming one night, then after some back and
forth, I thought perhaps it wasn't the place for erudite discussion of
what's essentially a philosophical question. And besides, if I didn't shut
up it was looking like I'd get my Euro-weenie ass handed to me by several
big men with mullets and guns.
Personally, I've always thought of all the nations in the world, I'd live
in Denmark, or possibly the north of Norway (I like Tromso). So does that
make Denmark and Norway my personal "greatest nation the world has ever
known"? I must admit, I've never heard a Dane or a Norwegian claim that.
Garamond Lethe
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
> WE ARE AMERICANS!
>
> By Dr. Sam Gipp
Hi, George.
Thanks for providing the attribution this time. This allowed me to
track down Dr. Gipp's website.
He's a looney.
<q>
I am sure you consider yourself superior to a homosexual, and you
are...morally. Morally homosexuals are the lowest form of human life. That is
not a hate-filled rant. It is a simple truth. They are vile and repulsive and
horribly intolerant.
</q>
http://samgipp.com/essays/?page=46.htm
<q>
As of November 4, 2008, for all practical purposes, the United States of
America ceased to exist. This nation willingly elected a freedom-hating
Communist. On November 5, for the first time in 20 years, I quit praying for
God to pardon & revive the United States. I feel that putting "Obammie, the
Commie" in office was His answer and I refuse to resist His will in that
respect. Even if we throw Obammie out in four years he will have installed so
many liberals in Federal & the Supreme Court that they will rule overwhelmingly
against God, free speech and life in general. Also, Obammie will have weakened
our military to the point that we may be vulnerable to conquest by any one of
several godless nations that hate us. They may attack and we will be destroyed
simply because our military is too weak.
</q>
http://samgipp.com/essays/?page=70.htm
<q>
Never in the history of our country has it been in such peril. There are so
many threats lined up against it that is seems one of them has to succeed in
destroying it. Many of these threats show the wisdom of the wicked as opposed
to the selfish shallowness of Christians. What do I mean?
.....
Floating dollar - Years ago we visited a gold mine in California that had been
closed in 1956. I figured there had to be some gold left when they turned off
the pumps and let the mine fill with water so I asked our guide how much gold
was still in the mine. He said, "Eighty percent." I was shocked! I asked why
they closed down a gold mine that still had 80 percent of its gold still
untouched. He said, "President Franklin Delano Roosevelt set the price of gold
at $35 an ounce. By 1956 it cost $48 an ounce to mine it. So they shut it
down."
Then in 1969 President Richard Nixon took our dollar off the gold standard and
"let it float" (or sink) on the world market.
Today our dollar is worthless. Missionaries have lost half the value of their
support because of the devaluation of the dollar. The object of all this was to
make another currency other than the dollar the world currency. We now know
this currency as the Euro. Mark my words! The day the world goes to the Euro
instead of the US dollar as the currency of international trade, the U.S. will
be a third world nation in a year.
</q>
http://samgipp.com/essays/?page=67.htm
richardal...@googlemail.com
> George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in news:be4dd83f-6259-452e-abc5-
> 0dd8bfef2...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > � WE ARE AMERICANS!
Surely "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is
the greatest nation on earth - it must be, it's the only one with
"Great" in it's name.
Of course, Denmark *is* the happiest nation on earth, and as the
research which led to that conclusion was carried out at the
University of Leicester where I am registered it must be reliable.
All completely objective, of course.
RF
richardal...@googlemail.com
> George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in news:be4dd83f-6259-452e-abc5-
> 0dd8bfef2...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
On a rather more serious note, I think that the best claim to
greatness of the Danes is how they responded as a nation to Hitler's
the order to round up and deport the Jews. Over 99% of Denmark's Jews
survived the holocaust thanks largely to the uncoordinated collective
resistance of the Danes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews
Mind you, I'm sad that the story of the yellow star turns out to be a
myth.
Given the anti-semitic feeling common in the UK before WWII, I doubt
that my own nation would have responded in the same way.
RF
Ilas
wrote in
news:33ba37ce-2ad9-4230...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> Surely "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is
> the greatest nation on earth - it must be, it's the only one with
> "Great" in it's name.
That's something that really gets on my nerves - let's put the "Great" back
into Britain, the "Great" British summer, etc. (for those who don't know,
it's Great Britain because Brittany is Lesser Britain, not because we think
we're fantastic. Although I wonder how many Brits even know that).
Ilas
wrote in
news:cd10faee-fd91-4497...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
> On a rather more serious note, I think that the best claim to
> greatness of the Danes is how they responded as a nation to Hitler's
> the order to round up and deport the Jews. Over 99% of Denmark's Jews
> survived the holocaust thanks largely to the uncoordinated collective
> resistance of the Danes.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews
> Mind you, I'm sad that the story of the yellow star turns out to be a
> myth.
>
> Given the anti-semitic feeling common in the UK before WWII, I doubt
> that my own nation would have responded in the same way.
I've also heard that the Norwegian resistance was the most effective and
widespread (based on population) of all the occupied countries. Given that
the Nazis saw Norwegians as pure Aryans and didn't give them nearly such a
hard time as, say, the Poles, I've always thought that admirable. So well
done to our tall, blonde, chunky knitwear wearing cousins. It's almost
enough to forgive them their raping and pillaging up and down the
Northumbrian coast.
Erwin Moller
Great posting.
But don't expect that George will let facts confuse him.
He simply ignores what you say, or, if you are really lucky, he will
respond with a bible quote.
But I enjoyed reading your posting: Many Americans have this twisted,
incorrect ideas about the founding of their own country.
Now, if they drop that, and their extreme nationalistic propaganda,
there may be hope for them yet.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare
Erwin Moller
Wow...
Thanks for looking that up.
Mr. Gipp is a great example of what makes USA very very small.
What a dangerous SOAB.
I am not easily impressed by idiots, but this Gipp gives a whole new
dimension to right winged bastards.
I wouldn't be surprised if the KKC would not accept him because he is
too extreme.
This also says a lot about George. He enjoys reading that hatemonger's crap.
All-seeing-I
wrote:
Well. I guess I am not suprised by your 'spin' this topic and on the
above quotes.
Benjamin Franklin was NOT indifferent to relgion. In the
Constitutional Convention of 1787, (from the original manuscript of
this speech) <quote>
� God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to
the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise
without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that
except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I
firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid,
we shall succeed in this political building no better than the
builders of Babel"
This quote clearly shows Frankiln had intimate knowledge of the bible
because he draws from several places throughout the old and new
testement to qualify his statement.
It also shows he thought that a new country could not rise without
the aid of God and would be doomed to fall like Babel with out it.
Refering to the book of Job (12:23) that says:
"He makes nations great, and destroys them; he enlarges nations, and
disperses them," although there are several places in the bible that
reference nations rising and falling by God's grace." (does this sound
like someone who does not have full support for biblical principals?).
Franklin's quote starts with: "God governs in the affairs of man."
This is one on the most famous quotations ever. In all honesty, I do
not see how one can be a teacher and not know this historically famous
quote.
Next. Nebuchadnezzar was specifically allowed to rise to power to
capture and enslave the Hebrews and he was latter removed from power
by Darius the Meed around October 539 B.C.. Darius allowed the Hebrews
to return home. All done by the will of God and for told ahead of time
by the prophet Daniel.
Franklin could not make his statement above without having read
Daniel's prophesy and understood it because the names,
"Nebuchadnezzar" and Babylon" were not used, Daniel used metaphors..
He could also not make the statement about the "sparrows" without
having read the words of Jesus and understood them either.
Franklin was NOT indifferent to relgion. Quite the opposite in fact,
because there are dozens of examples by him like this.
----
Thomas Jefferson.
�God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a
nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a
conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift
from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed
I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His
justice cannot sleep forever.� (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of
the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D.
Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the
United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson�s Notes on
the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
If you can read the above and then gather that Jefferson did not
support the idea that " liberties are a gift from God", then you have
brain damage.
But just in case that is not enough to convince you:
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of
Jesus�
�Thomas Jefferson to Charles Thomson, 9 Jan. 1816
--
George Washington in his farewell address:
reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality
can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."
--
Now, here is a quote for all you teachers...
Thomas Paine:
� It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the
other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments
only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference
to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of
science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive
principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through
the discovery to the Author.�
� The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in
teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that
of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking
through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short,
and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his
existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing
they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest
by saying, that matter is eternal.� �The Existence of God--1810�
--
There are litterly HUNDREDS of quotations from the founding fathers
that clearly show their support for bible principals. Even the non
believers understood the principals in the bible would support their
endevors to be free humans.
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
Here is a final quote to ponder although this quote is not from a
famous person:
"The very freedoms that protect Atheisim are being underminded by
Atheism in America today. --AllSeeingI
richardal...@googlemail.com
> "richardalanforr...@googlemail.com" <richardalanforr...@googlemail.com>
Bearing in mind that my family comes from the North-east of England,
I'm sure that I carry many Viking genes. Not that I'm tall and blond-
haired, of course, but then neither were many of the Vikings.
RF
bpuharic
<ap...@email.com> wrote:
>
>Well. I guess I am not suprised by your 'spin' this topic and on the
>above quotes.
>
>Benjamin Franklin was NOT indifferent to relgion.
i'm not indifferent to religion and i'm an atheist.
franklin said he had 'doubts' about the divinity of christ. and
jefferson excised the resurrection from the bible with a razor
how's that for not believing it?
In the
>Constitutional Convention of 1787, (from the original manuscript of
>this speech) <quote>
>
>� God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to
>the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise
>without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that
>except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I
>firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid,
>we shall succeed in this political building no better than the
>builders of Babel"
>
>This quote clearly shows Frankiln had intimate knowledge of the bible
every educated person has intimate knowledge of the bible
>
>"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of
>Jesus�
>�Thomas Jefferson to Charles Thomson, 9 Jan. 1816
who did n ot believe jesus was god. quite a bit different than the
creationsits
>
>Thomas Paine:
was the one founding father we know was an atheist
All-seeing-I
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
>
> By Dr. Sam Gipp
>
America is the mystery Babylon described in the book of Revelation
that is surrounded by waters which every nation will weep for when it
no longer buys their goods.
Being the largest consumer nation to ever have risen in the history of
mankind, indeed, all nations on earth will weep when America
collapses. We caught a glimpse of what happens around the world when
America is in a recession recently. the ripples are felt around the
world.
The undermining of America's founding principals has to take place.
Atheistic ideas foisted onto the American people by a rabid and out of
control mass media is part of the collapse process. So the popularity
today that America was not founded as a Christian nation is just part
of what must take place.
This is inevitable. It is unavoidable. Nebuchadnezzar could not stop
Babylon's demise and neither will any American president be able to
stop the fall of America.
It's happened before. It will happen again. Because nothing is new
under the sun.
alextangent
Plagiarist. You stole that from Hovind's excellent PhD dissertation.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article
<be4dd83f-6259-452e...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>):
[snip it all]
Thank God that I'm not a bleedin' Yankee.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
All-seeing-I
evidence?
VoiceOfReason
Thomas Jefferson
VoiceOfReason
<Since_humans_read_this_I_am_spammed_too_m...@spamyourself.com> wrote:
> R. Baldwin schreef:
>
>
>
> > George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in
Some people say that this is a "Christian nation" because the majority
were Christian. By that reasoning, one could claim that this is a
white protestant nation... although most of today's creationists won't
admit to that.
Ye Old One
Well I do for starters.
I would make that point that only know state, relative to its size,
exerts greater influence on the world than the UK today. And that is
the Vatican City.
--
Bob.
Ye Old One
"richardal...@googlemail.com"
<richardal...@googlemail.com> enriched this group when s/he
wrote:
>On Dec 11, 9:10�am, Ilas <nob...@this.address.com> wrote:
However, we were responsible for brining many thousands to the UK
before the outbreak of war.
--
Bob.
Tim Norfolk
>
> - Show quoted text -
The English side comes from Norfolk, so they got slammed by the
Vikings. I tell my boys that we are derived from the men who hid until
the looting was done.
Kermit
<snip>
"Saying 'My country right or wrong' is like saying 'My mother, drunk
or sober'."
-- recent guest on NPR
The US *was founded partly on the bible. That would be the Jefferson
bible, to be specific.
Kermit
Steven Litvintchouk
> has
> no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
> the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await
> your
> favorable reply before proceeding.
Gee, I'd like to see that.
Or just post a link.
-- Steven L.
Ilas
news:9b3e1beb-b6a1-489b...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
I'm from Northumberland, although my family is Irish-Italian when you get
past one generation. I've always understood that the biggest legacy here
from the Vikings is the language. There are a lot of words that are only
used here and in South East Scotland.
RMcBane
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
I suspect that many would prefer to discuss it here rather than on your
website. But then you would have to give us the correct url anyway.
Looks like there is a missing l in biblical.
So which is your site?
http://www.thebiblicalview.com/
http://www.biblicalview.com/
but then
http://www.biblicalview.org takes you somewhere else
--
Richard McBane
John Harshman
> On Dec 10, 10:07 pm, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> George wrote:
>>> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
>>> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
>>> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
>>> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>> no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
>> the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await your
>> favorable reply before proceeding.
>>
>
> Never mind him! Post the mating habits of the mustelids! Pleeeeeeze.
I would love to, but I will have to put it into bad poetry form first,
as it will be part of my PhD dissertation in Christesian Edumacation.
What rhymes with "wolverine"?
Desertphile
<papa...@cybertown.com> wrote:
> Why is it that it's always some right-wing splinter group that calls
> themselves "real" Americans? Usually, they're the ones that express
> contempt for the Constitution and the democratic process
The "patriot" nuts have contempt for the letter and spirit of the
USA Constitution, but they do not have contempt for what they
believe the USA Constitution says and means. That "Teapot"
gathering had several nutcases demanding that the Obama
agministration "Obey the Constitution," yet many of them
interviewed couldn't say what the 6th Amendment mandates.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Desertphile
<jimwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 10, 7:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> So, George, what would you do to those of us who are not only American
> citizens but also religiously tolerant non-Christians and liberals to
> boot? How would you change the Constitution to make this country the
> 'real America'? Would the 'real America' be a Christian republic like
> the Islamic republics? How would your America differ from Saudi
> Arabia or Iran (aside from the name of the religion, of course)?
The answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War
raven1
"Vaseline" comes immediately to mind.
Dan Listermann
"Desertphile" <deser...@invalid-address.net> wrote in message
news:v1s4i513guot5h2c4...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:39:34 -0800 (PST), VoiceOfReason
> <papa...@cybertown.com> wrote:
>
>> Why is it that it's always some right-wing splinter group that calls
>> themselves "real" Americans? Usually, they're the ones that express
>> contempt for the Constitution and the democratic process
>
> The "patriot" nuts have contempt for the letter and spirit of the
> USA Constitution, but they do not have contempt for what they
> believe the USA Constitution says and means. That "Teapot"
> gathering had several nutcases demanding that the Obama
> agministration "Obey the Constitution," yet many of them
> interviewed couldn't say what the 6th Amendment mandates.
>
Obama is not white, in their minds, he can't "obey the Constitution."
.
Steven Litvintchouk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ne...@darwin.ediacara.org [mailto:ne...@darwin.ediacara.org] On
> Behalf Of Jim
> Posted At: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:13 AM
> Posted To: talk.origins
> Conversation: Real Americans are creationists
> Subject: Re: Real Americans are creationists
>
> On Dec 10, 7:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> So, George, what would you do to those of us who are not only
American
> citizens but also religiously tolerant non-Christians and liberals to
> boot? How would you change the Constitution to make this country the
> 'real America'?
To borrow an idea from Senator Joseph Lieberman:
Amend the First Amendment to make it clear that it guarantees freedom
*of* religion, not freedom *from* religion.
-- Steven L.
richardal...@googlemail.com
> <richardalanforr...@googlemail.com> enriched this group when s/he
We turned away a lot more, and didn't treat many of those we did bring
over very well. My mother's best friendwas sent to England as a child
(ten years old, and speaking only German) and had an awful time. She
wrote a book about her experiences:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QERUFGPaqZwC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false
RF
>
> --
> Bob.
Dan Listermann
"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3EC4AF8535E14668BEEE08AA6A7D8484@userPC...
I say amend it to guarantee freedom of superstition, both of and from.
.
Desertphile
wrote:
> George <gbur...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in news:be4dd83f-6259-452e-abc5-
> 0dd8bf...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>> We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known.
Assyria was the greatest nation the world has ever known
> I'm not trying to start a Europe/rest of the world vs USA thing here, but
> I've heard that claim made many a time. Other than militarily (which
> certainly makes the USA the strongest nation the world has ever known, if
> not the greatest), how on Earth can that be quantified?
The USA falls far behind in greatness compared to 16 comparable
countries based upon the Successful Societies Scale. In fact the
USA is the worse out of 17 countries studied:
1) The most homicides
2) The most crime
3) The most income inequality
4) The worse life satisfaction
5) The third most poverty
6) The most suicides
7) The most infant mortality
8) The most alcoholic
9) The most hours worked
10) The worse life expectancy in years
The greatest country in the world at the moment is Norway,
followed by Denmark, then Sweden, then Holland. These are
countries that the pseudo-conservatives in the USA would absurdly
call "socialist" or "communist" yet these countries are
consistantly superior to the USA in quality of life.
> I asked somebody
> that very thing in a bar in Wyoming one night, then after some back and
> forth, I thought perhaps it wasn't the place for erudite discussion of
> what's essentially a philosophical question. And besides, if I didn't shut
> up it was looking like I'd get my Euro-weenie ass handed to me by several
> big men with mullets and guns.
Never, ever ask a Texan what the best country in the world is, or
the best state in the USA is: if you show even the slightest doubt
about the CORRECT ANSWER, you stand a good chance of being hurt.
It is much like asking a Mexican which soccer team is the best, or
a Canadian which ice hockey team is the best.
> Personally, I've always thought of all the nations in the world, I'd live
> in Denmark, or possibly the north of Norway (I like Tromso). So does that
> make Denmark and Norway my personal "greatest nation the world has ever
> known"? I must admit, I've never heard a Dane or a Norwegian claim that.
Desertphile
<ap...@email.com> wrote:
> America is the mystery Babylon described in the book of Revelation
Nut.
Desertphile
<try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:20:31 -0500, George wrote
> (in article
> <be4dd83f-6259-452e...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>):
> [snip it all]
> Thank god that I'm not a bleedin' Yankee.
But god *IS* a bleedin' Yankee, you infidel scum!
Desertphile
<cartogr...@gFNORDmail.com> wrote:
> On 2009-12-11, George <gbur...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> > will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> > it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
> >
> > WE ARE AMERICANS!
> >
> > By Dr. Sam Gipp
> Hi, George.
>
> Thanks for providing the attribution this time. This allowed me to
> track down Dr. Gipp's website.
>
> He's a looney.
He is a "Doctor of Theology," which is equal to the study of
nothing by nobodies.
> <q>
> I am sure you consider yourself superior to a homosexual, and you
> are...morally. Morally homosexuals are the lowest form of human life. That is
> not a hate-filled rant. It is a simple truth. They are vile and repulsive and
> horribly intolerant.
> </q>
> http://samgipp.com/essays/?page=46.htm
This goes for Jews, black people, and American Injuns as well, for
the same reasons.
> <q>
> As of November 4, 2008, for all practical purposes, the United States of
> America ceased to exist. This nation willingly elected a freedom-hating
> Communist. On November 5, for the first time in 20 years, I quit praying for
> God to pardon & revive the United States. I feel that putting "Obammie, the
> Commie" in office was His answer and I refuse to resist His will in that
> respect. Even if we throw Obammie out in four years he will have installed so
> many liberals in Federal & the Supreme Court that they will rule overwhelmingly
> against God, free speech and life in general. Also, Obammie will have weakened
> our military to the point that we may be vulnerable to conquest by any one of
> several godless nations that hate us. They may attack and we will be destroyed
> simply because our military is too weak.
> </q>
> http://samgipp.com/essays/?page=70.htm
"Our" military? This clown has a military?!
The USA's military is the strongest (i.e., most homicidal and
dangerous) in the world, and shows no sign of being "weak" except
that it is becoming the largest Fundamentalist Christian
organization in the world.
> <q>
> Never in the history of our country has it been in such peril. There are so
> many threats lined up against it that is seems one of them has to succeed in
> destroying it. Many of these threats show the wisdom of the wicked as opposed
> to the selfish shallowness of Christians....
> </q>
Due to the Christian George W Bush2.
Tim DeLaney
>
> - Show quoted text -
How about "smithereen"? Of course, it's not easy to
use the word in its singular. :(
Tim
Mike Dworetsky
So, Let's stoke up the bonfires now, and hunt down and burn all those
atheists and agnostics who refuse to bow down to the current religious
flavour of the month.
The First Amendment (something America is fortunate to have) guarantees no
government interference in the free practice of religion. This includes the
guarantee of a person's right to have no religion at all, or to adhere to a
religion without a supreme being or beings, and not have someone else's
religion preached at them when they can't avoid it, e.g., during a classroom
session.
I don't know who Lieberman was trying to impress with his ludicrous remark,
but I can guess.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <f305i5p11l47j7q6r...@4ax.com>):
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:11:23 -0500, "J.J. O'Shea"
> <try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:20:31 -0500, George wrote
>> (in article
>> <be4dd83f-6259-452e...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> [snip it all]
>> Thank god that I'm not a bleedin' Yankee.
>
>
> But god *IS* a bleedin' Yankee, you infidel scum!
>
You mean that he's not an Englishman? Damn. Gotta go rip up a whole lot of
old stories...
Dan Listermann
"Mike Dworetsky" <plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:H4-dnWkItbWkGb_W...@bt.com...
Freedom of Superstition, do we have it?
.
Rodjk #613
> In article
> <039628a2-1985-45f0-8a7f-fabc89bd1...@s20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> Eric Root <er...@swva.net> wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 10:07 pm, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > George wrote:
> > > > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> > > > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> > > > will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> > > > it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
> > > Thank you so much for cutting and pasting this tract, which in fact has
> > > no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
> > > the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await your
> > > favorable reply before proceeding.
>
> > > [snip]
>
> > Never mind him! �Post the mating habits of the mustelids! �Pleeeeeeze.
>
>
> I suspect he's referring to the mating habits of the sociocultural
> mustelids...
Is it the African mustelid or the European mustelid?
Rodjk #613
Bob Berger
hersheyh
<richardalanforr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 11, 9:10�am, Ilas <nob...@this.address.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in news:be4dd83f-6259-452e-abc5-
> > 0dd8bfef2...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> > > By Dr. Sam Gipp
>
> > > We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known.
>
> > I've heard that claim made many a time. Other than militarily (which
> > certainly makes the USA the strongest nation the world has ever known, if
> > that very thing in a bar in Wyoming one night, then after some back and
> > forth, I thought perhaps it wasn't the place for erudite discussion of
> > what's essentially a philosophical question. And besides, if I didn't shut
> > up it was looking like I'd get my Euro-weenie ass handed to me by several
> > big men with mullets and guns.
>
> > in Denmark, or possibly the north of Norway (I like Tromso). So does that
> > make Denmark and Norway my personal "greatest nation the world has ever
> > known"? I must admit, I've never heard a Dane or a Norwegian claim that.
>
> greatness of the Danes is how they responded as a nation to Hitler's
> the order to round up and deport the Jews. Over 99% of Denmark's Jews
> survived the holocaust thanks largely to the uncoordinated collective
> Mind you, I'm sad that the story of the yellow star turns out to be a
> myth.
>
> Given the anti-semitic feeling common in the UK before WWII, I doubt
> that my own nation would have responded in the same way.
>
> RF
If Uganda passes, effectively, the death penalty for homosexuality,
will the Christians (often fundamentalist) in Uganda stand up for
them? Will they work hard to prevent these laws from passing? Help
homosexuals escape if the law passes? Hide them in their homes? Or
will they turn them in to authorities because otherwise they might be
sent to jail or even suffer the death penalty themselves (and, after
all, they are homosexuals and chose that)? This could be a real test
of what Christian morality, as defined by the Christian Right, means.
So far there has been a lot of hemming and hawing among the publicly
homophobic right wing preachers, with begrudging wet-noodle opposition
to these proposed laws. And evidence that that bastion of "family
values" on C-Street in Washington is at least indirectly involved in
encouraging such laws.
alextangent
> On Dec 11, 4:49�am, "richardalanforr...@googlemail.com"
>
>
>
> <richardalanforr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 11, 9:10�am, Ilas <nob...@this.address.com> wrote:
>
> > > George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in news:be4dd83f-6259-452e-abc5-
> > > 0dd8bfef2...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> > > > By Dr. Sam Gipp
>
> > > > We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known.
>
> > > I'm not trying to start a Europe/rest of the world vs USA thing here, but
> > > I've heard that claim made many a time. Other than militarily (which
> > > certainly makes the USA the strongest nation the world has ever known, if
> > > not the greatest), how on Earth can that be quantified? I asked somebody
> > > that very thing in a bar in Wyoming one night, then after some back and
> > > forth, I thought perhaps it wasn't the place for erudite discussion of
> > > what's essentially a philosophical question. And besides, if I didn't shut
> > > up it was looking like I'd get my Euro-weenie ass handed to me by several
> > > big men with mullets and guns.
>
> > > Personally, I've always thought of all the nations in the world, I'd live
> > > in Denmark, or possibly the north of Norway (I like Tromso). So does that
> > > make Denmark and Norway my personal "greatest nation the world has ever
> > > known"? I must admit, I've never heard a Dane or a Norwegian claim that.
>
> > greatness of the Danes is how they responded as a nation to Hitler's
> > the order to round up and deport the Jews. Over 99% of Denmark's Jews
> > survived the holocaust thanks largely to the uncoordinated collective
> > resistance of the Danes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews
> > Mind you, I'm sad that the story of the yellow star turns out to be a
> > myth.
>
> > Given the anti-semitic feeling common in the UK before WWII, I doubt
> > that my own nation would have responded in the same way.
>
> > RF
>
> If Uganda passes, effectively, the death penalty for homosexuality,
> will the Christians (often fundamentalist) in Uganda stand up for
> homosexuals escape if the law passes? �Hide them in their homes? �Or
> will they turn them in to authorities because otherwise they might be
> sent to jail or even suffer the death penalty themselves (and, after
> of what Christian morality, as defined by the Christian Right, means.
> So far there has been a lot of hemming and hawing among the publicly
> homophobic right wing preachers, with begrudging wet-noodle opposition
> values" on C-Street in Washington is at least indirectly involved in
> encouraging such laws.
They'd turn them in.
<quote from http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/11/13/feedback-righteous-lie>
Consider this carefully. In the situation of a Nazi beating on the
door, we have assumed a lie would save a life, but really we don�t
know. So, one would be opting to lie and disobey God without the
certainty of saving a life�keeping in mind that all are ultimately
condemned to die physically. Besides, whether one lied or not may not
have stopped the Nazi solders from searching the house anyway.
</quote>
Debated in detail http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/11/a_moral_conundrum_resolved_wit.php
Boikat
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist ...
<snip insult>
This is one of the few things in life, if told to my face, would get a
serious invitation to meet me behind the barn for a little
"discussion".
"American" is *not* defined by one's religious belief.
Boikat
richardal...@googlemail.com
> Consider this carefully. In the situation of a Nazi beating on the
> door, we have assumed a lie would save a life, but really we don�t
> know. So, one would be opting to lie and disobey God without the
> certainty of saving a life�keeping in mind that all are ultimately
> condemned to die physically. Besides, whether one lied or not may not
> have stopped the Nazi solders from searching the house anyway.
> </quote>
>
So, according to creationists, it's wrong to lie even if someone
else's life is at stake, but it's fine to lie to promote their anti-
science cause - even under oath, as the Dover trial revealed.
And these are the people who claim the moral high ground.
It disgusts me.
RF
SkyEyes
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> it is?
George, there are quite a number of people on this newsgroup who don't
*care* what makes a "real" American, for the simple reason that
they're NOT FROM THE US. Have you not noticed that people from other
countries post here?
Go away, George. You are not going to make any converts here. We
consider you to be ignorant, dishonest, and pathetic. Our opinion of
you is becoming worse every time you post.
Evolution *happens*. We've got the evidence to support that
statement. Get over it.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
RAM
> On Dec 10, 6:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> > will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
>
> > By Dr. Sam Gipp
>
> > are jealous of our greatness, others are thankful for it. But, what
> > made America rise above every other country in history in greatness?
> > Was it our vast reserve of natural resources? No. Africa has far more
> > natural resources than we do yet it is a desperately poor continent.
> > Is it our form of government? No. Numerous countries have instituted
> > our form of government and yet failed to prosper as we have. Is it
> > free enterprise? No, numerous Eastern European countries have tried
> > free enterprise and have not excelled. So just what has made America
> > the greatest nation on earth? In a word, God.
>
> > Liberals would have us believe that America was founded with a
> > dedication to "free enterprise". That it was founded to be a "God
> > neutral", multi-cultural society. They teach little children that
> > America wasn't founded by Christians, but by "faith neutral" deists.
> > This simply isn't true. But, rather than claim America was founded on
> > the Bible by Christians, we will simply review the very words of the
> > founding Fathers themselves. (From Sam Gipp's booklet, We Are
> > Americans, Daystar Publishing,1-800-311-1823) Archived Newsletters
>
> > The Founding Fathers
>
> > Their Faith
>
> > Were they deists? In an attempt to hide the Christian founding of
> > America, many teachers and college professors claim that the founders
> > of the United States were not Christians but rather deist who believed
> > in an impersonal Deity but rejected the divinity of Jesus Christ and
> > the inspiration of the Bible. This simply isn�t true. Although both
> > Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were what may be referred to as
> > deists, the vast majority of the remaining founders were unapologetic,
> > born-again Christians. Let�s let them speak for themselves.
>
> > JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, the Sixth President of the United States, said, "My
> > hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ..."
>
> > JOHN JAY, Fist Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, said, "Unto Him who
> > is the Author and Giver of all good, I render sincere and humble
> > thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings and especially for our
> > redemption and salvation by His beloved Son...Blessed be his holy
> > name!" (John Jay's last will and testament)
>
> > GEORGE MASON, the Father of the Bill of Rights: "My soul I resign into
> > the hands of my Almighty Creator. Whose tender mercies are all over
> > His works, humbly hoping from His unbounded mercy and benevolence
> > through the merits of my blessed Savior, a remission of my sins?"
>
> > SAMUEL ADAMS, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, said,
> > "Principally and first of all, I recommend my soul to that Almighty
> > Being who gave it and my body I commit to dust, relying upon the
> > merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins." (Samuel Adam's
> > last will and testament.)
>
> > JOSIAH BARLETT, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, also said
> > "Firstly I commit my Soul into the hands of God, its great and
> > benevolent author."
>
> > DAVID BREARLEY, Signer of the Constitution, stated, "First and
> > principally, I commit my Soul unto Almighty God."
>
> > CHARLES CARROL, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, said, "On
> > the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits; not
> > on the works which I have done in obedience to His precepts."
>
> > GABRIEL DUVALL, selected as a Delegate to the Constitution Convention
> > and a U.S. Supreme Court Justice, boldly declared, "I resign my soul
> > into the hands of the Almighty who gave it in humble hopes of his
> > mercy through our Lord Jesus Christ."
>
> > JOHN HART, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, said, "[T]hanks
> > be given unto Almighty God therefore, and knowing that it is appointed
> > for all men once to die and after that the judgment [Hebrews 9:27] ...
> > principally, I give and recommend my soul into the hands of Almighty
> > God who gave it and my body to the earth to be buried in a decent and
> > Christian like manner ... to receive the same again at the general
> > resurrection by the mighty power of God."
>
> > JOHN DICKINSON, a General during the American Revolution and a signer
> > of the Constitution, declared: Rendering thanks to my Creator...for my
> > birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel...to Him I resign myself,
> > humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ
> > for the events of eternity. (John Dickinsons last will and testament.)
>
> > RODGER SHERMAN, Signer of both the Declaration and the Constitution,
> > "I believe that there is only one living and true God, existing in
> > three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy ghost, the same
> > substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and
> > new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct
> > us how we may glorify and enjoy Him."
>
> > ROBERT TREAT PAINE, Signer of the Declaration declared: "I am
> > constrained to express my adoration of the Supreme Being - the Author
> > of my existence - in full belief of...His forgiving mercy revealed to
> > the world through Jesus Christ, through Whom I hope for never ending
> > happiness in a future state." (From the Last Will and Testament of
> > Robert Treat Paine, attested May 11, 1814)
>
> > GUNNING BEDFORD, Signer of the Constitution declared: "To the triune
> > Dod - Teh Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost - be ascribed all honer
> > and dominion, forevermore - Amen."
>
> > RICHARD STOCKTON, Signer of the Declaration stated: [I] subscribe to
> > the entire belief of the great and leading doctrines of the Christian
> > religion...[and I exhort] that the course of life held up in the
> > Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness that
> > can be enjoyed in this mortal state." (From the Last Will & Testament
> > of Richard Stockton, attested May 20, 1780)
>
> > DR. BENJAMIN RUSH, Signer of the Declaration said, "My only hope of
> > salvation is in the infinite transcent love of God manifested to the
> > world by the death of His Son upon the Cross. Nothing but His blood
> > will wash away my sins [Acts 22:16]. I rely exclusively upon it. Come,
> > Lord Jesus! Come quickly!" [Revelation 22:20]
>
> > GEORGE WASHINGTON prayed, "Almighty God,...I beseech thee, my sins,
> > remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west,
> > and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I
> > come into thy temple, and compass thine alter, my prayer may come
> > before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee
> > in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling upon me in thy
> > Word...for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and rose again for us,
> > Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen."
>
> > The following inscription is found on a granite memorial at the grave
> > of George Washington in Mount Vernon. It was written by Mrs. John
> > Washington, the wife of George's nephew.
>
> > *** A sincere Christian***
> > Doing in all things the will of his Master***
> > And resting his hope of eternal happiness***
> > Alone on the righteousness of Jesus Christ. ***
>
> > Even THOMAS JEFFERSON, called a deist by many, called himself a
> > Christian. He stated that his views were, "the result of a life of
> > inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian
> > system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the
> > corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the
> > genuine precepts of Jesus Himself. I am a Christian in the true sense
> > in which He wished anyone to be, sincerely attached to His doctrines
> > in preference to all others..."
>
> > Notice several important things about Mr. Jefferson's statement.
> > First, that it stands in contrast to what some today claim of him.
> > Second, during those days in which this country was founded, Jefferson
> > saw nothing negative attached to be considered a Christian, unlike
> > some of today's politicians and teachers. Third, he not only saw no
> > negative stigma to Christianity, but he himself wanted to be included
> > with those who wore that label. This is not the Thomas Jefferson of
> > the average college political science class.
>
> > Their esteem for the Bible and Christian principles
>
> > Today many politicians, educators and entertainers have little regard
> > for the Bible or Christianity. They mock it, disdain it or try to
> > raise the writing of heathen religions to equal status in hopes of
> > being considered "political correct". But the Founding Fathers would
> > not be found among them if they were alive today. They were open and
> > shameless concerning their reverence for God, Jesus Christ and the
> > Bible and the conviction that to turn to the Bible and Christianity
> > would be beneficial to anyone.
>
> > Our first president, GEORGE WASHINGTON said, "It is impossible to
> > rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."
>
> > "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political
> > prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports."
>
> > JOHN ADAMS, our second president said, "The Bible is the best book in
> > the world." He also believed, "Suppose a nation in some distant region
> > should take the Bible for their own law book, and every member should
> > regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited... what a utopia;
> > what a paradise this region would be."
>
> > Our third president, THOMAS JEFFERSON, our second president said, "The
> > Bible is the source of liberty." He further stated. "The Bible makes
> > the best people in the world."
>
> > JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, our sixth president said, So great is my veneration
> > of the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read it, the more
> > confident will be my hope that they will prove useful citizens to
> > their country and respectable members of society. I have for many
> > years made it a practice to read through the Bible once a year."
>
> > If a president, politician or anyone else made any of these statements
> > today the liberal bullies in the News Media would viciously attack
> > them. But it is they who are wrong, not our Founding Fathers and ...
>
> > read more �
>
> �America is the mystery Babylon described in the book of Revelation
> that is surrounded by waters which every nation will weep for when it
> no longer buys their goods.
>
> Being the largest consumer nation to ever have risen in the history of
> mankind, indeed, all nations on earth will weep when America
> collapses. We caught a glimpse of what happens around the world when
> America is in a recession recently. the ripples are felt around the
> world.
>
> The undermining of America's founding principals has to take place.
> Atheistic ideas foisted onto the American people by a rabid and out of
> control mass media is part of the collapse process. So the popularity
> today that America was not founded as a Christian nation is just part
> of what must take place.
>
> This is inevitable. It is unavoidable. Nebuchadnezzar could not stop
> Babylon's demise and neither will any American president be able to
> stop the fall of America.
>
> It's happened before. It will happen again. Because nothing is new
> under the sun.
Really! Computers were used in Sumerian in vitro fertilization? In
vitro fertilization has been around since the beginning of time?
Even your kookie ideas will evolve to something dramatically different
1000 years from now. Thank God for that eh me laddie?
SkyEyes
> > > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> > > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> > > will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> > > it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
> > no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
> > the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await your
> > favorable reply before proceeding.
>
> > [snip]
>
> are you a fisher of men?
I hope you're not expecting him to ferret out the answer to that,
Chris.
Jim
> On Dec 10, 5:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> > will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> > it is?
>
> George, there are quite a number of people on this newsgroup who don't
> *care* what makes a "real" American, for the simple reason that
> they're NOT FROM THE US. �Have you not noticed that people from other
> countries post here?
>
> Go away, George. �You are not going to make any converts here. �We
> consider you to be ignorant, dishonest, and pathetic. �Our opinion of
> you is becoming worse every time you post.
>
doctrine, he is aiding and abetting treason (an attempt to overthrow
the Constitution of the US).
John Stockwell
some form or
other of what we would call Christians, but who might not have been
viewed as Christians
by members of other sects. Several of the original colonies were
religious exiles (Puritans,
Quakers, Catholics, etc...) who were seeking religious freedom.
The founding fathers were smart enough to rise about their particular
relgious persuasion,
and put the following in the US Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the
press; or the right of the
people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a
redress of grievances.
The United States was founded with the notion of freedom of religion.
The US is not
a "Christian country" but rather a "free country".
As to your claim that the founding fathers were "creationists", the
term "creationist" as
used on this newsgroup refers exclusively to those individuals who
espouse the anti-science
philosophy of "scientific creationism", a collection of unscientific
materials that are intended
to refute, replace, or to confound science education, with regard to
scientific results and theories
that do not conform to the expectations derived from a particular
interpretation of the Bible.
-John
PS. You should admit you are wrong (about evolution) and ask God for
forgiveness.
On Dec 10, 5:20 pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
> them. But it is they who are wrong, not our Founding Fathers and not
> those who would espouse Christianity today. The intolerant tyrants in
> the News Media are to be ignored and chastened for their shameless
> bigoted hatred for the faith of the founders of this great nation.
>
> But these views were not limited to just our early presidents. ROBERT
> TREAT PAINE said, "I believe the Bible to be the written word of God
> and to contain in it the whole rule of faith and manners."
>
> Chief Justice, JOHN JAY urged, "The Bible is the best of all books,
> for it is the Word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this
> world and the next. Continue, therefore, to read it and to regulate
> your life by its precepts."
>
> ABRAHAM BALDWIN, a Signer of the Constitution advised, "It should
> therefore be among the first objects of those who wish well to the
> national prosperity to encourage and support the principles of
> religion and morality."
>
> OLIVER ELLSWORTH a member of the Constitutional Convention and the
> third Chief-Justice of the Supreme Court, declared, "The primary
> objects of government are the peace, order, and prosperity of
> society...To the promotion of these objects, particularly in a
> republican government, good morals are essential. Institutions for the
> promotion of good morals are therefore objects of legislative
> provision and support: and among these...religious institutions are
> eminently useful and important."
>
> So we see that the views of our Founders were that the Bible and its
> teachings were superior to any and every belief system on earth.
> Having no television through which to be intimidated and cowered, they
> did not feel at all bigoted or intolerant about their views. The fact
> is, if they were alive today the News Media would protray them as
> intolerant, higher education would declare them religious extremists
> and tyrannic liberal judges would accuse them of violating the very
> Constitution that they wrote!
>
> *******************************THEIR EVANGELISTIC
> FERVOR************************************
>
> The argument may be put forth by those who are desperate to obliterate
> the Christian history of the United States that, although these men
> were indeed Christians, they had too much character to propagate their
> faith to others. That simply isn�t true.
>
> BENJAMIN FRANKLIN desired to start a colony in Ohio with the Rev.
> George Whitefield to facilitate the introduction of pure religion
> among the heathen in order to show the Indians a better sample of
> Christians than they commonly see in our Indian traders.
>
> GEORGE WASHINGTON told a gathering of Indians, "You do well to wish to
> learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus
> Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you
> are."
>
> JOHN JAY the first Chief-Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court stated,
> "I...recommend a general and public return of praise and thanksgiving
> to Him from whose goodness these blessings descend. The most effectual
> means of securing the continuance of our civil and religious liberties
> is always to remember with reverence and gratitude the source from
> which they flow."
>
> If a public official made such a statement, today the slave masters in
> the News Media would go through the roof criticizing him for his
> freedom of speech.
>
> JOHN WITHERSPOON, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, said, "I
> shall now entreat...you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus
> Christ, for there is no salvation in any other [Acts 4:12]...(I)f you
> are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must
> forever perish."
>
> JACOB BROOM, Signer of the Constitution, "Dont forget to be a
> Christian. I have said much to you on this head and I hope an
> indelible impression is made."
>
> JOHN JAY, the original Chief-Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, stated
> "I have long been of the opinion that the evidence of the truth of
> Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce
> conviction in candid minds, and I think they who undertake that task
> will derive advantages. . . ."
>
> THE FOUNDING OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
>
> So, was this great nation founded to advance multi-culturalism, enjoy
> free enterprise or pretend that there was no God to answer to for our
> actions? The Founding Fathers can explain it best.
>
> JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, the Sixth President of the United States, said
> concerning the founding of the United States, The highest glory of the
> American Revolution was this: that it connected in one indissoluble
> bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of
> Christianity..."
>
> The greatest thing PATRICK HENRY said was not, "Give me liberty or
> give me death." Outstanding though that courageous statement was, the
> greatest thing Patrick Henry ever said was, 'It cannot be emphasized
> too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by
> religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel
> of Jesus Christ."
>
> Even those in Congress recognized that America was founded to be
> distinctly Christian rather than multi-cultural.
> In 1853 THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE of the United States declared:
> "We are Christians, not because the law demands it... but from choice
> and education...But they [the Founders] had no fear or jealousy of
> religion itself, nor did they wish to see us an irreligious
> people...they did not intend to spread over all the public authorities
> and the whole public action of the nation the dead and revolting
> spectacle of atheistic apathy."
>
> In 1854 THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE of the United States affirmed
> the same thing: "Had the people during the revolution had any
> suspicion of an attempt to war against Christianity, that revolution
> would have been strangled in its cradle...At the time of the adoption
> of the constitution and its amendments the universal sentiment was
> that Christianity should be encouraged...That was the religion of the
> founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion
> of their decedents."
>
> America's founding was so steeped in Bible that even that fountain of
> disinformation, Newsweek, couldn�t deny it. In the December 27, 1982
> edition in an article entitled "How the Bible Made America", this
> bastion of anti-Americanism had to admit that the Bible "has exerted
> an unrivaled influence on American culture, politics and social life,
> now historians are discovering that the Bible, perhaps even more than
> the Constitution, is our founding document...Bible study was the core
> of public education and nearly every literate family not only owned a
> Bible but read it regularly and reverently...Because of this Biblical
> influence, the United States seemed to Europeans (sic) to be one vast
> public congregation- a nation with the soul of a church."
>
> Are people of other faiths welcome here? Yes, they�re welcome here.
> But once they get here they are to forsake their inferior religion and
> join up with the Christianity of America. The god of their ancestors
> wasn�t able to make their country as great as the God of the Bible
> made America. So why stick with a loser god? Come to America and
> accept Americas God and enjoy the blessings of that God. Think about
> it. The god/s of the Hindus have certainly not made India greater than
> the USA. Why would we or even Indian emigrants want to stick with
> those impotent gods? Buddha has not produced any great nations. Why
> stick with Buddha? The god of Islam thinks murdering school children
> on a bus is a virtuous act and Heaven is an orgy. Who would keep such
> a god once they have access to the true, living and loving God of the
> Bible? America was never intended to be a nation of many faiths. It
> was intended to be a nation of one God, the God of the Bible.
>
> Was the United States of America intended to be a "Christian" nation?
> Not only was that the intention, but it was universally accepted that
> it was a Christian nation. In 1892, the U.S. Supreme Court, after
> conducting a thorough and unbiased review of American history
> declared, "There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a
> universal language pervading them all, having one meaning; they affirm
> and reaffirm that this is a religious nation....this is a Christian
> nation."
>
> Today, the bullies in academia and the News Media have forced us to
> allow atheists and God-haters as an integral part of our society. But
> it was not always so. None other than BENJAMIN FRANKLIN wrote in a
> tract encouraging immigration to the United States, "Bad examples to
> youth are more rare in America, which must be a com�fortable
> consideration to parents. To this may be truly added, that serious
> religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but
> respect�ed and practiced. Atheism is unknown there; infidelity rare
> and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country
> without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist
> or an Infidel."
>
> ***************************************GOD WINS! 50 to 0!
> *****************************************
>
> The facts of history illustrate the this nation never intended to be
> "God neutral." Public displays of worship and subservience to the God
> of creation have always been made matter-of-factly. There can be no
> greater example of this than casual and unapologetic declarations
> concerning God in the constitutions of every one of the fifty states!
>
> Alabama 1901, Preamble, "We the people of the State of Alabama,
> invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and
> establish the following Constitution..."
> Alaska 1956, Preamble, "We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and
> to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land..."
> Arizona 1911, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Arizona,
> grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this
> Constitution..."
> Arkansas 1874, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Arkansas,
> grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of
> government..."
> California 1879, Preamble, " We, the People of the State of
> California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom..."
> Colorado 1876, Preamble, "We, the people of Colorado, with profound
> reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe..."
> Connecticut 1818, Preamble, "The People of Connecticut, acknowledging
> with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to
> enjoy..."
> Delaware 1897, Preamble, "Through Divine Goodness all men have, by
> nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according
> to the dictates of their consciences."
> Florida 1885, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Florida,
> grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty establish this
> Constitution..."
> Georgia 1777, Preamble, "We, the people of Georgia, relying upon
> protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this
> Constitution..."
> Hawaii 1959, Preamble, "We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine
> Guidance...establish this Constitution."
> Idaho 1889, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful
> to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings..."
> Illinois 1870, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Illinois,
> grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious
> liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him
> for a blessing on our endeavors."
> Indiana 1851, Preamble, "We, the People of the State of Indiana,
> grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose
> our form of government."
> Iowa 1857, Preamble, "We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to
> the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our
> dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings... establish
> this Constitution..."
> Kansas 1859, Preamble, "We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty
> God for our civil and religious privileges...establish this
> Constitution."
> Kentucky 1891, Preamble, "We, the people of the Commonwealth of
> Kentucky grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and
> religious liberties..."
> Louisiana 1921, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Louisiana,
> grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious
> liberties we enjoy."
> Maine 1820, Preamble, "We the People of Maine...acknowledging with
> grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in
> affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction."
> Maryland 1776, Preamble, "We, the people of the state of Maryland,
> grateful to Almighty God or our civil and religious liberty..."
> Massachusetts 1780, Preamble, "We...the people of Massachusetts,
> acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great
> Legislator of the Universe . in the course of His Providence, an
> opportunity ..and devoutly imploring His direction."
> Michigan 1908, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Michigan,
> grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom...establish this
> Constitution..."
> Minnesota 1857, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Minnesota,
> grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to
> perpetuate its blessings..."
> Mississippi 1890, Preamble, "We, the people of Mississippi in
> convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His
> blessing on our work."
> Missouri 1845, Preamble, "We, the people of Missouri, with profound
> reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His
> goodness...establish this Constitution .."
> Montana 1889, Preamble, "We, the people of Montana, grateful to
> Almighty God for the blessings of liberty. establish this
> Constitution..."
> Nebraska 1875, Preamble, "We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for
> our freedom...establish this Constitution."
> Nevada 1864, Preamble, "We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful
> to Almighty God for our freedom establish this Constitution..."
> New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V., "Every individual has a
> natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates
> of his own conscience."
> New Jersey 1844, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of New Jersey,
> grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath
> so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on
> our endeavors..."
> New Mexico 1911, Preamble, "We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to
> Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..."
>
> New York 1846, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of New York,
> grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its
> blessings."
> North Carolina 1868, Preamble, "We the people of the State of North
> Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations,
> for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging
> our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those..."
> North Dakota 1889, Preamble, "We, the people of North Dakota, grateful
> to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do
> ordain..."
> Ohio 1852, Preamble, "We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to
> Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote
> our common."
> Oklahoma 1907, Preamble, "Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in
> order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty..."
> Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2., "All men shall be
> secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the
> dictates of their consciences..."
> Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble, "We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful
> to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and
> humbly invoking His guidance."
> Rhode Island 1842, Preamble, "We the People of the State of Rhode
> Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty
> which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a
> blessing."
> South Carolina, 1778, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of South
> Carolina, grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish
> this Constitution."
> South Dakota 1889, Preamble, "We, the people of South Dakota, grateful
> to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties...establish
> this..."
>
> Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III., "That all men have a natural and
> indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates
> of their conscience..."
> Texas 1845, Preamble, "We the People of the Republic of Texas,
> acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God."
> Utah 1896, Preamble, "Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty,
> we establish this Constitution..."
> Vermont 1777, Preamble, "Whereas all government ought to...enable the
> individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other
> blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man..."
> Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI, "Religion, or the Duty which we
> owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason...and that it is
> the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and
> Charity towards each other..."
> Washington 1889, Preamble, "We the People of the State of Washington,
> grateful! to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do
> ordain this Constitution."
> West Virginia 1872, Preamble, "Since through Divine Providence we
> enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the
> people of West Virginia...reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance
> upon God..."
> Wisconsin 1848, Preamble, "We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to
> Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility..."
> Wyoming 1890, Preamble, "We, the people of the State of Wyoming,
> grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious
> liberties...establish this Constitution..."
>
> WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO AMERICA
>
> The question begs to be asked, how did the only nation in history
> founded on the Bible and its God become so "tolerant" of paganism,
> heathenism and atheism? The answer is as simple as it is sad.
>
> The United States of America is the only nation in history that was
> Christian from its founding. Every other nation (with the exception of
> Israel) was pagan and had to be "Christianized." The United States was
> Christian and had to be "paganized." Powers that hated God, His Book
> and His country set about to do that very thing.
>
> There have always been people in this country who hated God and
> resented Him being the God of this country. For most of our history,
> these people have been ignored and kept on the sideline while those
> who were true to the founding of this country ran it. Occasionally
> they made attempts to gain control of the helm but they were always
> thwarted by God-conscious Americans who, in spite of shortcomings in
> their personal lives, acknowledged the preeminence of God.
>
> But slowly, the attention of Americans was carefully steered to less
> important, but all-consuming pursuits. Slowly, sports, education,
> money, and world acceptance absorbed all of the attention of Americas
> citizenry. They became more interested in this months new movie than
> the voting record of their congressional representative. It wasnt a
> matter of supreme trust in their representatives as much a supreme
> disinterest - supreme preoccupation.
>
> Then, ever-so-slowly, dishonest educators fooled a generation into
> believing that the United States was intended to be a land of multiple
> faiths. These mini-dictators hid their hatred for the God of America
> behind their insincere demand for "tolerance", all the while being
> intolerant of the God upon which this great nation was founded.
> The God that made it the greatest nation in the world. It has been
> said that, Americans quit thinking the day after they got their
> television sets". That is a sadly realistic evaluation. "Americans
> quit thinking and instead simply believed every television special
> that falsely declared that our founders were really deists, and that
> America was founded to establish free enterprise and it was intended
> to be "multi-cultural". Then, the facts of American history were
> replaced with "revisionist" (read that false) fairy tales. Soon, the
> God-haters were using our public school system to reproduce citizens
> after their own image.
>
> SAMUEL ADAMS` referred to these people as "internal invaders", as
> deadly and dangerous as any invading army sent to our shores to
> destroy our country. "A general dissolution of the principles and
> manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the
> whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous, they
> cannot be subdued, but when once they lose their virtue, they will be
> ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal
> invader."
>
> These "internal invaders" have taken over the teaching duties in our
> schools, colleges and universities. They ruthlessly run the nations
> newsrooms and many of them are our favorite entertainers. When an army
> invades and conquers a country they change its social fabric. That is
> exactly what these invaders have done. They have rewritten our
> history, thrown God out of our schools, set up clinics to murder our
> babies and generally demanded subservience to their gods and their
> social ideals. We are victims of an occupying army that wish to
> eradicate every visage of our country just as thoroughly as if we had
> been conquered by a communist or Muslim country.
>
> **************************************PROPAGATING
> "ADDICTIONS"*******************************
>
> The invaders took over our schools and replaced academic excellence
> with courses based on their immoral social values. Once the citizens
> of the United States were sufficiently dumbed-down there was another
> necessary step to be taken. The movers & shakers of paganist teaching
> had to gain absolute, iron-clad control of their lives. The only way
> to control someone is to get them addicted to something and then
> control the source of their personal drug. Thus, public schools boldly
> introduced drugs to children to control them. Through movies, public
> schools and the new morality sex, alcohol, gambling, environmentalism,
> pornography and other addictive, destructive actions were introduced
> into the lives of unsuspecting Americans. The very victims of these
> acts knew these things were wrong but, they were so enjoyable that
> they allowed themselves to be swept up and corrupted until now, if
> anyone calls for a curbing of such actions, they foolishly stand
> against it.
>
> [Give Us the Young (Control of Science and Religion) -
>
> If you have a tattoo, body piercing, drug habit, morality problem, it
> is not because you are exceedingly wicked. It is because you have been
> duped. Someone smarter, and far more wicked than you, has corrupted
> you and is now confident you will do their bidding for fear of having
> the source of your addiction dry up. Hollywood, public education and
> the News Media want your children to be homosexual, drug-addicted,
> alcoholics who are so given to the desires of the flesh that they will
> never take any action that might reduce the availability of their
> favored vice.
>
> The result of this wicked practice is a nation of seemingly selfish,
> carnal, vile, immoral pagans who want to know nothing more than the
> location of the next party.
> Thus we now see a generation whose sole goal in life seems to be a
> minor part in Girls Gone Wild. Over two hundred years ago our Founders
> knew a populace without God and morality would lead to the end of our
> nation.
>
> JOHN ADAMS our second President observed, "Our Constitution was made
> only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the
> government of any other."
>
> WILLIAM PATERSON, a signer of the Constitution and a Justice on the
> U.S. Supreme Court, castigated his own generation when he saw them
> turning away from God to frolic and sensualism, "Infatuated Americans,
> why renounce your country, your religion, and your God? Oh shame,
> where is thy blush? Is this the way to continue independent, and to
> render the 4th of July immortal in memory and song?" (July 4th was
> originally set aside as a national day of fasting and prayer to thank
> God for the countries victory in the War of Independence. My, my
> hasn�t it changed?)
>
> WILLIAM PENN warned, "Those people who will not be governed by God
> will be ruled by tyrants."
>
> The poor character of our leaders is a direct reflection of the poor
> character of our citizenry. PRESIDENT JAMES GARFIELD reminded
> Americans at our nation�s one hundredth birthday, "Now, more than ever
> before, the people are responsible for the character of their
> Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt, it is
> because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption.
> If it be intelligent, brave, and pure, it is because the people demand
> these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature...
> [I]f the next centennial does not find us a great nation...it will be
> because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the
> morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political
> forces."
>
> ROBERT WINTHROP, Speaker of the House of Representatives (1847-1849)
> explained it this way, "Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled
> either by a power within them or a power without them, either by the
> Word of God or by the strong arm of man, either by the Bible or the
> bayonet."
>
> Christianity instills and empowers the power within a person to resist
> and overcome the forces of evil. As our young people are trained to be
> totally unrestrained, they lose all "power within." They think they
> don�t want to resist evil but what they do not realize is that they do
> not possess the power to do so even if they did wish to resist. They
> are slaves and their masters in the media are giving the commands that
> they do not have the power within to resist...to their own
> destruction.
>
> Among others, NOAH WEBSTER, educator and the author of the first
> American dictionary, plainly saw the danger in this unrestricted
> wantonness. "The principles of all genuine liberty and of wise laws
> and administrations are to be drawn from the Bible and sustained by
> its authority. The man therefore who weakens or destroys the divine
> authority of that book may be accessory to all the public disorders
> which society is doomed to suffer."
>
> Thus, according to Webster, the disorder, hedonism and immorality that
> is rampant in our country is to be laid directly on the doorstep of
> the Bible rejecters who have permeated the upper echelons of our
> society.
>
> Even Thomas Paine, not one who was ever considered a "paragon" of
> Christianity, saw the real culprit in the corruption of American
> youth." When we study the elements of geometry, we think of Euclid.
> When we speak of gravitation, we think of Newton. How is it then, that
> when we study the works of God in the creation, we stop short, and do
> not think of God? It is from the error of the schools in having taught
> those subjects as accomplishments only and thereby separated the study
> of them from the Being who is the Author of them....
>
> "The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools in teaching
> natural philosophy as an accomplishment only has been that of
> generating in the pupils a species of atheism.
>
> "Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator
> Himself, they stop short and employ the knowledge they acquire to
> create doubts of His existence. They labor with studied ingenuity to
> ascribe everything they behold to innate properties of matter and jump
> over all the rest by saying that matter is eternal....
>
> "And when we speak of looking through nature up to natures God we
> speak philosophically the same rational language as when we speak of
> looking through human laws up to the Power that ordained them.
>
> "God is the power of first cause, nature is the law, and matter is the
> subject acted upon.
>
> "But infidelity, by ascribing every phenomenon to properties of
> matter, conceives a system for which it cannot account, and yet it
> pretends to demonstrate."
>
> WHAT CAN YOU DO
> your country is in grave danger. Are in grave danger. Your children
> and their children are in grave danger. If the slide away from God
> continues, and that small, vicious minority who hate Him are allowed
> to continue to hold sway over the will of the majority, then this
> country stands to end up like all great pagan civilizations of the
> past. It will fall. Freedom will cease to exist. Blood will flow in
> the streets. Terror and grief will be everyday acquaintances. If you
> count yourself a patriot and love this country then what can you do to
> stop the slide?
>
> Who better to go to for advice than to the man ever known as "The
> Father of Our Country?" Our very first president, GEORGE WASHINGTON,
> would tell you, "To the distinguished character of patriot, it should
> be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of
> Christian."
>
> Even as you read this booklet you may realize your own moral
> weaknesses and the danger you are in because of them. No one is
> judging or berating you for this. Rather, someone is trying to rescue
> you. Do you want to be rescued? Here�s what to do:
>
> 1. Apologize to God - It takes honesty to admit you�re wrong. It take
> real character go humble yourself and apologize. You know God has been
> good to you. Not only have your sins been against Him, but your self-
> serving nature has caused you to place yourself in a position superior
> to God. It isn�t wise to compete with God. Why don�t you simply bow
> your head and apologize to God for what you know to be your
> shortcomings?
>
> Wait! It you�re about to excuse your actions by blaming someone else,
> save your breath. Any cheap, intellectual midget can play the "Blame
> Game". If you�re going to claim that its one of your parents fault,
> your spouse, your boss or anyone else then you�re not really taking
> responsibility for your actions.
Desertphile
Freedom from religion *IS* freedom of religion.
Desertphile
"I don't know... Ahhhhhhhhhh *SPLAT!*"
Tim Norfolk
Since I had to take a test on US culture and history, and was sworn in
by a federal judge, I was under the impression that I was a 'real
American'.
Stephen
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:25:29 -0500, Desertphile wrote
> (in article <f305i5p11l47j7q6r...@4ax.com>):
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:11:23 -0500, "J.J. O'Shea"
> > <try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:20:31 -0500, George wrote
> >> (in article
> >>
> <be4dd83f-6259-452e...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>):
> >
> >> [snip it all]
> >> Thank god that I'm not a bleedin' Yankee.
> >
> >
> > But god IS a bleedin' Yankee, you infidel scum!
> >
>
> You mean that he's not an Englishman? Damn. Gotta go rip up a whole
> lot of old stories...
That would be premature ... you see, He *is* an Englishman ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQE3GfkrOo
--
Burkhard
wrote:
> On 2009-12-11, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> > will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> > it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
>
> > By Dr. Sam Gipp
>
> Hi, George.
>
> Thanks for providing the attribution this time. �This allowed me to
> track down Dr. Gipp's website.
>
>
Thanks, excellent detective work! A looney indeed
heekster
wrote:
He'll probably badger him til he gets what he wants.
half...@bfe.inc
<bl...@rivadpm.com> wrote:
>On Dec 11, 12:01�pm, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 10, 6:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
>> > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
>> > will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
>> > it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>>
>> > � WE ARE AMERICANS!
>>
>> > By Dr. Sam Gipp
On Dr. Sam Gipp
Sam Gipp is a graduate of Ruckman's Bible institute, and a few years
ago Sam Gipp's website contained an announcement that he had been
awarded an honorary doctorate by Ruckman's Bible institute
http://www.ruckmanism.org/?q=trio
In 1965 Ruckman founded Pensacola Bible Institute (PBI), in part,
because of his disagreements with other institutions in regard to
Biblical translations. Pensacola Bible Institute�unrelated to
Pensacola Christian College�is not accreditedAn by any agency
recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation or the
United States Department of Education.[22] It does not accept
government funding nor participate in the student loan program. The
school has no website other than the Bible Baptist Bookstore site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Ruckman
Another bogus doc. I can get a Doctor of Divinity D.D. for $29.00 at
http://www.themonastery.org/catalog/drofdivinitydd-p-68.html
This is not an honorary one but a real one. For $29.00 it has to be
good.
Halfstop
Eric Root
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:40:08 -0800, John Harshman
>
>
>
> <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >>>> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> >>>> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> >>>> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> >>>> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
> >>> no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
> >>> the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await your
> >>> favorable reply before proceeding.
>
> >>> [snip]
>
>
> >as it will be part of my PhD dissertation in Christesian Edumacation.
> >What rhymes with "wolverine"?
>
I would never admit it if vaseline were the first thing to come to
mind.
Eric Root
Earle Jones
<03a8743f-391d-4790...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
Tim Norfolk <tims...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Dec 11, 2:43?pm, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 6:20?pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist ...
> >
> > <snip insult>
> >
> > This is one of the few things in life, if told to my face, would get a
> > serious invitation to meet me behind the barn for a little
> > "discussion".
> >
> > "American" is *not* defined by one's religious belief.
> >
> > Boikat
>
> Since I had to take a test on US culture and history, and was sworn in
> by a federal judge, I was under the impression that I was a 'real
> American'.
*
Tim: In a sense, you are more of an American than I am. You made a
choice and did the work required, whereas I am an American by whim of
birth.
earle
*
Earle Jones
<be4dd83f-6259-452e...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
George <gbur...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>
> WE ARE AMERICANS!
>
> By Dr. Sam Gipp
>
> We are citizens of the greatest nation the world has ever known. Some
> are jealous of our greatness, others are thankful for it. But, what
> made America rise above every other country in history in greatness?
> Was it our vast reserve of natural resources? No. Africa has far more
> natural resources than we do yet it is a desperately poor continent.
> Is it our form of government? No. Numerous countries have instituted
> our form of government and yet failed to prosper as we have. Is it
> free enterprise? No, numerous Eastern European countries have tried
> free enterprise and have not excelled. So just what has made America
> the greatest nation on earth? In a word, God...
*
So someone named Sam Gipp says we are a Christian nation, founded by
Christians.
Thomas Jefferson and I disagree:
"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful and
capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed
beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who
say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact,
every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of
reason, than that of blindfolded fear. Do not be frightened from
this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a
belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in
the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the
love of others it will procure for you."
--Thomas Jefferson
"I never told my religion, nor scrutinized that of another. I never
attempted to make a convert, or wished to change another's creed. I
have judged of other's religion by their lives, for it is from our
lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read."
--Thomas Jefferson
"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first
example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and
if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of
artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider
this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the
formation of the American governments is at present little known or
regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an
object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons
employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any
degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon
ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will
forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely
by the use of reason and the senses.
". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on
the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of
miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern
part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in
favor of the rights of mankind."
--John Adams
Adams, a Unitarian, flatly denied the doctrine of eternal damnation.
In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, he wrote:
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example
of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved --
the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has
produced!"
--John Adams, letter to Abigail, 1797
"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature
shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and
kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles."
--John Adams
As Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the
Virginia Act for Religious Freedom:
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the
plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by
inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the
plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion
was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to
comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the
Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every
denomination."
"The priests of the different religious sects ... dread the advance
of science as witches do the approach of daylight, and scowl on the
fatal harbinger announcing the subdivision of the duperies on which
they live."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Correa de Serra April 11, 1820,
quoted from James A. Haught "2000 Years of Disbelief"
"Because religious belief, or non-belief is such as important part of
every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual.
State churches that use government power to support themselves and
force their views on persons of other faiths undermine our civil
rights, Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the
clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within
religion. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state,"
therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society."
--Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), speech 1808
"...the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans,
at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ
pronounced or that such a character existed."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Major John Cartwright June 5,
1824 (see Positive Atheism's Historical section)
"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted
into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine
against the civil and religious rights of man."
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Jeremiah Moor, 1800
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people
maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of
ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will
always avail themselves for their own purposes."
--Thomas Jefferson, to Alexander von Humboldt December 6, 1813
"His [Calvin's] religion was demonism. If ever a man worshiped a
false god, he did. The being described in his five points is ... a
demon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in
no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of
Calvin."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Works, 1829 edition vol. 4, p. 322, quoted
from Franklin Steiner
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against
unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason
can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the
trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling
themselves the priests of Jesus."
-- Thomas Jefferson Letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp July
30, 1816 denouncing the doctrine of the Trinity and suggesting
it to be so riddled in falsehood that only an authoritarian
figure could decipher its meaning and, with a firm grip on
people's spiritual and mental freedoms, thus convince the
people of its truthfulness.
To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that
the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are
nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason
otherwise ... without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and
phantasms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things
which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which
may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence.
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, August 15, 1820
[On the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John on Jesus]
"We find in the writings of his biographers...a groundwork of vulgar
ignorance, of things impossible, of superstitions, fanaticisms and
fabrications."
--Thomas Jefferson, to William Short, August 4, 1822 (referring to
Jesus's biographers, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.)
A professorship of theology should have no place in our institution.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper
October 7, 1814, (referring to the University of Virginia)
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if
there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that
of blindfolded fear."
--Thomas Jefferson Letter to Peter Carr (his ward), August
10, 1787
"Farewell to 'the free exercise of Religion,' if civil Rulers go so
far out of their sphere as to take the Care and management of
religious Affairs upon them!"
--Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of the Virginia
Association of Baptists, Dec. 25, 1776
"He is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he
who believes what is wrong."
--Thomas Jefferson
"I consider the Government of the United States as interdicted by
the Constitution of the United States from meddling with religious
institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises."
--Thomas Jefferson
Read what Thomas Jefferson said about Jesus and Paul:
"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to Him (Jesus) by His
biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct
morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of
so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism
and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such
contradictions should have proceeded from the same Being. I
separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore to Him the
former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery
of others of His disciples. Of this band of dupes and impostors,
Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corruptor of the doctrines
of Jesus."
--Letter To William Short. Monticello, April 13, 1820.
"I ... do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one
redeeming feature. They [religions] are all alike, founded upon
fables and mythologies." (letter to Dr. Woods)
"The Christian God is a being of terrific character �� cruel,
vindictive, capricious and unjust. ... I read the Apocalypse and
considered it merely the rantings and ravings of a maniac. ... What
has not meaning admits no explanation."
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the
Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin will be
classified with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of
Jupiter."
--Thomas Jefferson (letter to John Adams)
"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is
no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more
repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this
thing called Christianity."
--Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries,
the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness,
with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more
consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God.
It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and
brutalize mankind."
--Thomas Paine (1737-1809)
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of
Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less
in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and
servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and
persecution."
--James Madison
"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every
past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in
greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
--James Madison (letter to Edward Livingston, 10 July 1822)
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to
be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge
gives. A popular government without popular information or the means
of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or
perhaps both."
--James Madison (Fourth President of the United States)
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on
society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual
tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they
have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no
instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the
people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found
an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
--James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
earle
*
Earle Jones
<8d9c5e97-ceff-43ba...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
Kermit <unrestra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 10, 4:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> "Saying 'My country right or wrong' is like saying 'My mother, drunk
> or sober'."
>
> -- recent guest on NPR
>
>
> The US *was founded partly on the bible. That would be the Jefferson
> bible, to be specific.
>
> Kermit
*
Do you mean this Jefferson?
"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful and
capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed
beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who
say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson
earle
*
bpuharic
<ap...@email.com> wrote:
>
>
> America is the mystery Babylon described in the book of Revelation
>that is surrounded by waters which every nation will weep for when it
>no longer buys their goods.
uh, what?
>
>Being the largest consumer nation to ever have risen in the history of
>mankind, indeed, all nations on earth will weep when America
>collapses. We caught a glimpse of what happens around the world when
>America is in a recession recently. the ripples are felt around the
>world.
and tomorrow a new nation will take our place, as we took the UK's
place and as the UK took china's place when china had the biggest
economy in the 19th century
>
>The undermining of America's founding principals has to take place.
>Atheistic ideas foisted onto the American people by a rabid and out of
>control mass media is part of the collapse process. So the popularity
>today that America was not founded as a Christian nation is just part
>of what must take place.
fine. go find proof that the US was a christian nation. cuz it never
was
>
>This is inevitable. It is unavoidable. Nebuchadnezzar could not stop
>Babylon's demise and neither will any American president be able to
>stop the fall of America.
>
>It's happened before. It will happen again. Because nothing is new
>under the sun.
paranoia and wizard of oz history
John Wilkins
<plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> Steven Litvintchouk wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ne...@darwin.ediacara.org [mailto:ne...@darwin.ediacara.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Jim
> >> Posted At: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:13 AM
> >> Posted To: talk.origins
> >> Conversation: Real Americans are creationists
> >> Subject: Re: Real Americans are creationists
> >>
> >> On Dec 10, 7:20 pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> So, George, what would you do to those of us who are not only
> >> American citizens but also religiously tolerant non-Christians and
> >> liberals to boot? How would you change the Constitution to make
> >> this country the 'real America'?
> >
> > To borrow an idea from Senator Joseph Lieberman:
> >
> > Amend the First Amendment to make it clear that it guarantees freedom
> > *of* religion, not freedom *from* religion.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Steven L.
>
> So, Let's stoke up the bonfires now, and hunt down and burn all those
> atheists and agnostics who refuse to bow down to the current religious
> flavour of the month.
>
> The First Amendment (something America is fortunate to have) guarantees no
> government interference in the free practice of religion. This includes the
> guarantee of a person's right to have no religion at all, or to adhere to a
> religion without a supreme being or beings, and not have someone else's
> religion preached at them when they can't avoid it, e.g., during a classroom
> session.
>
> I don't know who Lieberman was trying to impress with his ludicrous remark,
> but I can guess.
Very clearly, America's constitution protects only Protestant
Christianity, so Joe had better watch out.
chris thompson
wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:01:58 -0500, "Steven Litvintchouk"
>
>
>
>
> > > �-----Original Message-----
> > > �From: n...@darwin.ediacara.org [mailto:n...@darwin.ediacara.org] On
> > > �Behalf Of Jim
> > > �Posted At: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:13 AM
> > > �Posted To: talk.origins
> > > �Conversation: Real Americans are creationists
> > > �Subject: Re: Real Americans are creationists
>
> > > �On Dec 10, 7:20 pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> > > �<snip>
>
> > > �So, George, what would you do to those of us who are not only American
> > > �citizens but also religiously tolerant non-Christians and liberals to
> > > �boot? �How would you change the Constitution to make this country the
> > > �'real America'?
> > To borrow an idea from Senator Joseph Lieberman:
> > Amend the First Amendment to make it clear that it guarantees freedom
> > *of* religion, not freedom *from* religion.
>
> Freedom from religion *IS* freedom of religion.
That is possibly- probably- the single most succinct, sensible and
correct assessment of the Establishment Clause I have ever read. Thank
you.
Chris
chris thompson
wrote:
> > �-----Original Message-----
> > �From: n...@darwin.ediacara.org [mailto:n...@darwin.ediacara.org] On
> > �Behalf Of Jim
> > �Posted At: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:13 AM
> > �Posted To: talk.origins
> > �Conversation: Real Americans are creationists
> > �Subject: Re: Real Americans are creationists
>
> > �On Dec 10, 7:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> > �<snip>
>
> > �So, George, what would you do to those of us who are not only
> American
> > �citizens but also religiously tolerant non-Christians and liberals to
> > �boot? �How would you change the Constitution to make this country the
> > �'real America'?
>
> To borrow an idea from Senator Joseph Lieberman:
>
> Amend the First Amendment to make it clear that it guarantees freedom
> *of* religion, not freedom *from* religion.
>
I would fight and kill and die to prevent that change.
Chris
Mark Evans
> Eric Root wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 10:07 pm, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >>> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> >>> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> >>> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> >>> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
> >> no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
> >> the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await your
> >> favorable reply before proceeding.
>
> >> [snip]
>
> > Never mind him! �Post the mating habits of the mustelids! �Pleeeeeeze.
>
> I would love to, but I will have to put it into bad poetry form first,
> as it will be part of my PhD dissertation in Christesian Edumacation.
> What rhymes with "wolverine"?
Titomititholine? Or it used to.
Mark Evans
Mark Isaak
No; the mink shall inherit the earth.
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
R. Baldwin
news:pan.2009.12.12....@earthlink.net:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:46:41 -0600, heekster wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:04:03 -0800 (PST), SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 10, 9:48�pm, chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 10, 10:07�pm, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > George wrote:
>>>> > > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
>>>> > > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
>>>> > > will not know where they are going do you know what made America
>>>> > > what it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>>>>
>>>> > Thank you so much for cutting and pasting this tract, which in fact
>>>> > has no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my
>>>> > disquisition on the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable
>>>> > response, but I await your favorable reply before proceeding.
>>>>
>>>> > [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Quit weaseling and do it. Or at least consider your otter options. Or
>>>> are you a fisher of men?
>>>
>>>I hope you're not expecting him to ferret out the answer to that, Chris.
>>>
>> He'll probably badger him til he gets what he wants.
>
> No; the mink shall inherit the earth.
>
Skunked again!
R. Baldwin
news:ab8a6c9e-b161-4d2f...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 11, 11:57�am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:40:08 -0800, John Harshman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >Eric Root wrote:
>> >> On Dec 10, 10:07 pm, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >>> George wrote:
>> >>>> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to
>> >>>> our church. If young people do not know where they have come
>> >>>> from they will not know where they are going do you know what
>> >>>> made America what it is? We can further discuss this at the
>> >>>> bibicalview.com
>> >>> Thank you so much for cutting and pasting this tract, which in
>> >>> fact has no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my
>> >>> disquisition on the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable
>> >>> response, but I await your favorable reply before proceeding.
>>
>> >>> [snip]
>>
>> >> Never mind him! �Post the mating habits of the mustelids!
>> >> �Pleeeeeeze.
>>
>> >I would love to, but I will have to put it into bad poetry form
>> >first, as it will be part of my PhD dissertation in Christesian
>> >Edumacation. What rhymes with "wolverine"?
>>
>> "Vaseline" comes immediately to mind.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> How about "smithereen"? Of course, it's not easy to
> use the word in its singular. :(
>
> Tim
>
Tureen.
heekster
<jhar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Eric Root wrote:
>> On Dec 10, 10:07 pm, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> George wrote:
>>>> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
>>>> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
>>>> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
>>>> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
>>> Thank you so much for cutting and pasting this tract, which in fact has
>>> no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
>>> the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await your
>>> favorable reply before proceeding.
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>
>> Never mind him! Post the mating habits of the mustelids! Pleeeeeeze.
>
>I would love to, but I will have to put it into bad poetry form first,
>as it will be part of my PhD dissertation in Christesian Edumacation.
>What rhymes with "wolverine"?
Ruptured spleen,
Quite obscene,
Damascene,
Nazarene,
Visqueen,
Aberdeen,
Idi Amin,
Limousine
begin the Beguine,
Marine,
brigantine,
careen,
Essene
Byzantine,
Moline,
Palanquin
Sardine,
Figurine,
Latrine
baleen,
Jethro Bodine
Langoustine
Ben Vereen
Hallowe'en
mujahedeen
submarine
tambourine
stoat
heekster
Indeed.
A weasel is weasily recognised but a stoat is stoatally different.
heekster
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ne...@darwin.ediacara.org [mailto:ne...@darwin.ediacara.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jim
>> Posted At: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:13 AM
>> Posted To: talk.origins
>> Conversation: Real Americans are creationists
>> Subject: Re: Real Americans are creationists
>>
>> On Dec 10, 7:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> So, George, what would you do to those of us who are not only
>American
>> citizens but also religiously tolerant non-Christians and liberals to
>> boot? How would you change the Constitution to make this country the
>> 'real America'?
>
>To borrow an idea from Senator Joseph Lieberman:
>
>Amend the First Amendment to make it clear that it guarantees freedom
>*of* religion, not freedom *from* religion.
Lieberman is wrong.
R. Baldwin
news:9ebbf342-e995-434d...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 10, 9:31�pm, "R. Baldwin" <res0k...@nozirevBACKWARDS.net>
> wrote:
>> George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote
>> innews:be4dd83f-6259-452e...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.c
>> om:
>>
[snip]
>
> Well. I guess I am not suprised by your 'spin' this topic and on the
> above quotes.
There was no spin here.
>
> Benjamin Franklin was NOT indifferent to relgion.
I didn't say Franklin was indifferent to religion (generally). Try reading
for comprehension. Franklin was a politician, and quite savvy about
religion. I wrote, specifically, "Benjamin Franklin appears to have been
fairly indifferent to religion on a personal basis, using its language when
it suited his political purposes, and at other times discarding it." That
means he was indiferrent toward it in his personal life, as an individual.
He was certainly not indifferent toward the effects of religion on
political or social affairs.
> In the
> Constitutional Convention of 1787, (from the original manuscript of
> this speech) <quote>
>
> � God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to
> the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise
> without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that
> except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I
> firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid,
> we shall succeed in this political building no better than the
> builders of Babel"
>
> This quote clearly shows Frankiln had intimate knowledge of the bible
> because he draws from several places throughout the old and new
> testement to qualify his statement.
Of course he had intimate knowledge of the Bible. All educated Westerners
of his era did.
>
> It also shows he thought that a new country could not rise without
> the aid of God and would be doomed to fall like Babel with out it.
No, it shows that he knew referring to God was a good thing to do
politically.
> Refering to the book of Job (12:23) that says:
>
> "He makes nations great, and destroys them; he enlarges nations, and
> disperses them," although there are several places in the bible that
> reference nations rising and falling by God's grace." (does this sound
> like someone who does not have full support for biblical principals?).
>
> Franklin's quote starts with: "God governs in the affairs of man."
> This is one on the most famous quotations ever. In all honesty, I do
> not see how one can be a teacher and not know this historically famous
> quote.
Well, I could think of many reasons a teacher might not know one particular
quote. I'm not a teacher, so I'm not sure why this was relevant anyway.
I've read Franklin's writings extensively, and several biographies about
him. He has many famous quotes. I don't memorize them.
>
> Next. Nebuchadnezzar was specifically allowed to rise to power to
> capture and enslave the Hebrews and he was latter removed from power
> by Darius the Meed around October 539 B.C.. Darius allowed the Hebrews
> to return home. All done by the will of God and for told ahead of time
> by the prophet Daniel.
Did you perhaps mean Darius the MEAD?
>
> Franklin could not make his statement above without having read
> Daniel's prophesy and understood it because the names,
> "Nebuchadnezzar" and Babylon" were not used, Daniel used metaphors..
> He could also not make the statement about the "sparrows" without
> having read the words of Jesus and understood them either.
>
> Franklin was NOT indifferent to relgion. Quite the opposite in fact,
> because there are dozens of examples by him like this.
Franklin led his life with personal indifference to religion. He paid it
sufficent heed not to harm his political interests.
[snip rest]
Desertphile
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:46:46 -0800 (PST), alextangent
> <bl...@rivadpm.com> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 11, 12:01�pm, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 10, 6:20�pm, George <gburk...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> >> > church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> >> > will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> >> > it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
> >>
> >> > � WE ARE AMERICANS!
> >>
> >> > By Dr. Sam Gipp
> On Dr. Sam Gipp
>
> Sam Gipp is a graduate of Ruckman's Bible institute, and a few years
> ago Sam Gipp's website contained an announcement that he had been
> awarded an honorary doctorate by Ruckman's Bible institute
> http://www.ruckmanism.org/?q=trio
A fake doctorate from a church?! Good gods that's hilarious!
> In 1965 Ruckman founded Pensacola Bible Institute (PBI), in part,
> because of his disagreements with other institutions in regard to
> Biblical translations. Pensacola Bible Institute�unrelated to
> Pensacola Christian College�is not accreditedAn by any agency
> recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation or the
> United States Department of Education.[22] It does not accept
> government funding nor participate in the student loan program. The
> school has no website other than the Bible Baptist Bookstore site.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Ruckman
>
> Another bogus doc. I can get a Doctor of Divinity D.D. for $29.00 at
> http://www.themonastery.org/catalog/drofdivinitydd-p-68.html
>
> This is not an honorary one but a real one. For $29.00 it has to be
> good.
>
> Halfstop
>
>
--
John Wilkins
<res0...@nozirevBACKWARDS.net> wrote:
> All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote in
> news:9ebbf342-e995-434d...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>
...
> > Next. Nebuchadnezzar was specifically allowed to rise to power to
> > capture and enslave the Hebrews and he was latter removed from power
> > by Darius the Meed around October 539 B.C.. Darius allowed the Hebrews
> > to return home. All done by the will of God and for told ahead of time
> > by the prophet Daniel.
>
> Did you perhaps mean Darius the MEAD?
The moving finger writes in the beer, and having writ
The barmaid cleans it up...
Mede?
Menny, menny--tickle your parson!
Desertphile
> I would fight and kill and die to prevent that change.
Millions of American women and men have done so (Lincoln's war).
Walter Bushell
<ab8a6c9e-b161-4d2f...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Tim DeLaney <delaney...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Dec 11, 11:57�am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:40:08 -0800, John Harshman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > >Eric Root wrote:
> > >> On Dec 10, 10:07 pm, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > >>> George wrote:
> > >>>> This is a booklet is published by an evangelist that comes to our
> > >>>> church. If young people do not know where they have come from they
> > >>>> will not know where they are going do you know what made America what
> > >>>> it is? We can further discuss this at the bibicalview.com
> > >>> Thank you so much for cutting and pasting this tract, which in fact has
> > >>> no relevance to talk.origins. I would like to post my disquisition on
> > >>> the mating habits of mustelids as a suitable response, but I await your
> > >>> favorable reply before proceeding.
> >
> > >>> [snip]
> >
> > >> Never mind him! �Post the mating habits of the mustelids! �Pleeeeeeze.
> >
> > >I would love to, but I will have to put it into bad poetry form first,
> > >as it will be part of my PhD dissertation in Christesian Edumacation.
> > >What rhymes with "wolverine"?
> >
> > "Vaseline" comes immediately to mind.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> How about "smithereen"? Of course, it's not easy to
> use the word in its singular. :(
>
> Tim
lean, mean, bean, seen, green, tureen, scene, glean, dean
And of curse, wolverines rhymes with New Orleans.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
Walter Bushell
<931424df-1f9f-4a7e...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Eric Root <er...@swva.net> wrote:
> For one thing, Biblical inerrancy is an, in all due respect,
> ridiculous conceit with no more conceivable mechanism ( and no more
> deserving of respect) than a flat earth or a moon made of green
> cheese. Christianity doesn't need it, it doesn't belong. You might
> as well conduct your church services in a clown suit.
Actually not a bad idea. Would go well with some forms of Buddhism that
stress for example, Crazy Wisdom.
William Morse
Responding to the thread title, Real Americans were mostly wiped out by
disease and European invaders, who all too often committed genocide in
the name of God. Many of these Real Americans had their own creation
stories, but they are not the kind of creationists you refer to.
And the rest of your post is as false as the thread title, but others
have already critiqued the post.
Yours,
Bill Morse
William Morse
Guinness stoat, but now it will have to be a dry marteni.