Whale evolution

[Oxyaena]

This webpage is pretty interesting:

http://darwiniana.org/landtosea.htm

It's mostly a collection of links to sites about whale evolution,
although it includes a diagram of the transition of the archaeocetes
from land to water. One of the many pieces of evidence that indicate
whales evolve from land critters (in the fossil record, at least)
includes the archaeocete *Rodhocetus*, an ancient form of whale that had
four limbs, the nostrils were halfway between the snout and where the
blowhole is today, the hind limbs were weak, and so when the creature
dragged itself onto land, it would've presumably moved about like a
seal, dragging itself along the beach.
--
http://oxyaena.org/

[eridanus]

I had seen some drawings like this not so long ago. It looks quite
likely.
Eri

[Pandora]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 15:47:54 -0400, Oxyaena <oxy...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

The best source on cetacean evolution is currently the book "Cetacean
Paleobiology" by Marx, Lambert and Uhen:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/book/10.1002/9781118561546

Pandora

[RonO]

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2016/10/ark-park-as-obs.html#comments-open

The link at the Panda's Thumb has someone commenting on opening day at
the Ark Park. The commentator notes that pakicetus is on the Ark for
some reason, likely because it is supposed to be some type of original
"kind". The strange thing is that pakicetus is as close to baleen and
toothed whales as their supposed cat kind that gave rise to tabby and
saber toothed cats. It only took around 10 million years to evolve the
baleen whale branch from the time that pakicetus existed, but tabby and
the ice age saber toothed cats are around 15 million years distant from
each other in terms of when they evolved from a common ancestor.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03

So the Ark Park YECers are actually in the same ball park by putting
pakicetus on the Ark. In the same time it took the cat kind to diverge
into all the cats you could evolve whales from pakecetus. The Ark
doesn't need whale tanks to save the whales. Since everything with the
breath of life died if it wasn't on the Ark whales used to be an issue,
but now whales could have evolved after the flood. It is just amazing
how everything seems to be coming together for these guys.

Since we don't know what humans looked like back before the flood (there
are no preflood human fossils), Noah and his family could have
represented Ape kind. If just as much evolution happened to evolve
smilodon and tabby from cat kind you have enough time to evolve all the
great apes including humans from the ape kind. The estimate for the
split between the human lineage and orangutans is 13-18 million years
and smilodon and tabby diverged around 15 million years ago (maybe
closer to 20 million).

Ron Okimoto

[Robert Carnegie]

Surely the Ark people aren't teaching that all the
critters today evolved from the examplesbon their Ark?

Also, do they have live animals, and where did they
get a pakicetus.

[jillery]

At least some of them do:

<https://answersingenesis.org/natural-selection/speciation/do-species-change/>

Short version: species immutability is an Aristotlean concept, which
worldly scholars incorrectly attached to true Biblical teaching of
Separate Creation. Darwin is correct about species mutability but not
about Common Descent.

<http://www.grisda.org/origins/62006.pdf>

"Instead, the concept of limited evolution within basic kinds of
organisms appears to have an intrinsic intellectual appeal to
scientists acquainted with species and taxonomy."

>Also, do they have live animals, and where did they
>get a pakicetus.

Ebay?
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This space is intentionally not blank.

[RonO]

They are claiming that all the species on earth evolved from the "kinds"
that were on the Ark. One of their specific examples is cat "kind"
where all cats from the ice age saber toothed cats to tabby evolved from
one pair of cat "kind" that were on the ark in just a couple thousand
years. Tabby and saber toothed cats are around 3 times the genetic
distance from each other as chimps are from humans, so that is a lot of
evolution in a few thousand years. They claim that there was only one
ice age and that it only lasted for a few centuries after the flood
instead of the last 2 million years.

I have recommended that they put live animals at the density required in
at least one section of the Ark and let people walk through the area
that is maintained by 2 people if they use a quarter section of the Ark.
The waste management and feeding would be something to watch, but my
guess is that the dead animals and manure would be too much for most
visitors. The Bible doesn't say anything about ventilation on the Ark,
but it does claim that there was only one window above the door, so I
don't know what the visitors and animals would be breathing. What is
worse is that the window was closed for at least the worst of the flood
(40 days and 40 nights).

The pakicetus is a replica model that they made to impress the visitors
with the fact that the "kinds" on the ark did not look like the animals
of today, but they may have looked like preflood fossil organisms. If
you follow the pandas thumb links you will see pictures of animals that
I can't identify. Some look like amorphous schmoos ready to morph into
anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geRFKxUDdlo&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

https://ncse.com/library-resource/kentucky-gets-ark-shaped-second-creation-museum

Ron Okimoto

[Oxyaena]

Honest John's Dealership?

--
http://oxyaena.org/

[Steady Eddie]

So you think that's a missing link? Good luck with that.

[jillery]

Nope, his link isn't missing, it's right up there, and takes me right
to the website. Thanks for sharing.