Life on Mars, before or in the future?

Rolf

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Oct 20, 2017, 5:25:02 PM10/20/17

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The subject of OOL is dicussed on Greg Laden's blog:

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2016/06/21/humanity-may-be-alone-in-the-universe-synopsis/

My personal opinion: I believe we may be alone in the universe. That's why
ET doesn't check in.

Will we ever know for certain, one way or another?

I am curious about Mars. Having looked at a lot of pictures taken by the
rover, I am left with wondering about what story lies behind all the
seemingly non-natural objects and structures we find there. Are they the
result of nuclear warfare? We cant know anything definite before we go there
"in person", robots are not sufficient. But colonization, I say no. Elon
Musk better spend his talent on more relevant things.

---
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Sean Dillon

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Oct 20, 2017, 5:40:03 PM10/20/17

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My (hopeful) position is that the odds of us being alone in the universe are pretty low. My (pessimistic) suspicious, however, is that we will never encounter or interact with any non-Terran-originating life. The universe is just too vast.

Pro Plyd

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Nov 22, 2017, 1:05:03 AM11/22/17

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Rolf wrote:
> The subject of OOL is dicussed on Greg Laden's blog:
>
> http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2016/06/21/humanity-may-be-alone-in-the-universe-synopsis/
>
> My personal opinion: I believe we may be alone in the universe. That's why
> ET doesn't check in.
>
> Will we ever know for certain, one way or another?
>
> I am curious about Mars. Having looked at a lot of pictures taken by the
> rover, I am left with wondering about what story lies behind all the
> seemingly non-natural objects and structures we find there. Are they

ummm... non natural? Examples?

jonathan

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Nov 22, 2017, 11:45:03 PM11/22/17

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On 11/22/2017 1:01 AM, Pro Plyd wrote:
> Rolf wrote:
>> The subject of OOL is dicussed on Greg Laden's blog:
>>
>> http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2016/06/21/humanity-may-be-alone-in-the-universe-synopsis/
>>
>>
>> My personal opinion: I believe we may be alone in the universe. That's
>> why
>> ET doesn't check in.
>>
>> Will we ever know for certain, one way or another?
>>
>> I am curious about Mars. Having looked at a lot of pictures taken by the
>> rover, I am left with wondering about what story lies behind all the
>> seemingly non-natural objects and structures we find there. Are they
>
> ummm... non natural? Examples?
>
>

> the
>> result of nuclear warfare? We cant know anything definite before we go
>> there
>> "in person", robots are not sufficient. But colonization, I say no. Elon
>> Musk better spend his talent on more relevant things.
>
>

> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>

Pro Plyd

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Dec 3, 2017, 9:35:02 PM12/3/17

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jonathan wrote:
> On 11/22/2017 1:01 AM, Pro Plyd wrote:
>> Rolf wrote:
>>> The subject of OOL is dicussed on Greg Laden's blog:
>>>
>>> http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2016/06/21/humanity-may-be-alone-in-the-universe-synopsis/
>>>
>>>
>>> My personal opinion: I believe we may be alone in the universe. That's why
>>> ET doesn't check in.
>>>
>>> Will we ever know for certain, one way or another?
>>>
>>> I am curious about Mars. Having looked at a lot of pictures taken by the
>>> rover, I am left with wondering about what story lies behind all the
>>> seemingly non-natural objects and structures we find there. Are they
>>
>> ummm... non natural? Examples?
>>
>>
>
>
> How about structures only microbial life could explain?
>
> Some context first, Opportunity landed on the floor
> of a dried up underground shallow sea, protected
> from evaporating away in the thin atmosphere
> by several meters of sand covering it.
>
> The underground body of water dried up, the
> overcoat of sand eroded away and this is
> what's left.

If evidence of microbial life had been found, wouldn't it have
been announced by now?

JTEM is my hero

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Dec 5, 2017, 2:30:03 AM12/5/17

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Pro Plyd wrote:

> If evidence of microbial life had been found, wouldn't it have
> been announced by now?

"Evidence" is not a French word meaning
"Proof."

Evidence has been found. It's been announced.

Besides the Mars Rock, besides the spheres,
besides the original Viking experiments there
is also the curious example of methane in
Mars' atmosphere. It's getting replenished.

So there's "Evidence," and there has been for
a very long time. There's just no proof, no
confirmation.

...I will say what seems obvious to me:

If Mars DID have life at any point in the
last [Blah Blah] million years, Mars has
life right now. Life is just too diverse,
too adaptable to not cling on, even after
a drastic change to the environment.

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/168172070268

JTEM is my bitch

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Dec 16, 2017, 3:55:03 PM12/16/17

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JTEM is my hero wrote:
> Pro Plyd wrote:
>
>> If evidence of microbial life had been found, wouldn't it have
>> been announced by now?
>
> "Evidence" is not a French word meaning
> "Proof."
>
> Evidence has been found. It's been announced.

Then you will have no problem providing a cite to this ->

J.LyonLayden

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Dec 16, 2017, 9:30:02 PM12/16/17

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I once played with an acid jazz saxophonist who said he was from Mars. Kind of looked like a Martian too.

JTEM is my hero

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Dec 16, 2017, 11:20:02 PM12/16/17

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I'm so important to you that you've
incorporated me into your identity.

Nobody is capable of returning the
favor.

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/168621557518

Jonathan

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Dec 17, 2017, 11:50:05 AM12/17/17

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Whatever you say Mr Cryptozoology-boy

I heard Bigfoot might be a dino, maybe
you should do some studies, ask some
'questions'?

s

--

"To paraphrase the Buddha — Three things cannot be long hidden:
the sun; the moon; and the truth. ‬

“But let justice roll down like waters and righteousness
like an ever-flowing stream” Amos 5:24

~ Former FBI Director James Comey (12-1-17)

s

J.LyonLayden

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Dec 17, 2017, 12:05:05 PM12/17/17

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Bigfoot and I cruise for chicks together. He's definitely not a dinosaur.

Jonathan

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Dec 17, 2017, 12:15:04 PM12/17/17

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The first MER rovers were designed to find
signs of water, not life.

The current MSL is designed to find signs
of habitability, not life.

The rovers were deliberately designed not to
have the ability to prove life on Mars in
order to protect their wish for a sample
return mission or ultimately a manned
mission.

A discovery of life too soon would short
circuit those future missions as the
big goal would be already accomplished.

Why send men to Mars to find life if
life is already proven?

AND MORE TELLING, before the MER rovers arrived
the astrobiology field comprised a handful
of graduate students pushing pie in the sky
research few took seriously.

The field exploded like few fields ever have
shortly after the rovers, and the latest
astrobiology conference was attended by some
800 researchers from the most prestigious
institutions of the world.

That doesn't happen if the results
are negative or just show a dead
dry Mars.

It's a race to be the first to prove life
elsewhere and everyone is falling all over
each other for the Big Prize they believe
is coming soon.

This is clear evidence of what
the scientific community thinks
about life elsewhere.

ABISCON 2017

Session Topics
Sixty-three diverse session topics within five themes
have been selected for presentation at the conference.

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/abscicon2017/program-abstracts/topics/

JTEM is my hero

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Dec 17, 2017, 3:25:04 PM12/17/17

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Jonathan wrote:

> The first MER rovers were designed to find
> signs of water, not life.

Viking found a sign of life, but it was
inconclusive.

> The rovers were deliberately designed not to
> have the ability to prove life on Mars in
> order to protect their wish for a sample
> return mission or ultimately a manned
> mission.

There's other issues, "Contamination" being the
most obvious. Unless you can absolutely-positively
rule out contamination without so much as a
shred of doubt, you want to hold off on declaring
what would be the greatest scientific discovery
since DNA or splitting the atom.

This is a biggie... "Life" elsewhere. It's something
of a Holy Grail.

You don't mess with it.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs."

> A discovery of life too soon would short
> circuit those future missions as the
> big goal would be already accomplished.

True, but there are other factors.

We could probably rule out contamination STATISTICALLY.

At least onboard the probe.

But what about interplanetary contamination?
What about some variation on Panspermia where
Toba or the K.T. impact send life-bearing rocks
into space and some of them landed on Mars, where
that life flourished?

...that would be an issue, would it not?

I honestly believe that nothing short of a RETURN
TRIP can confirm "Life" and explain what it is...
whether it is indigenous to Mars and spread to
earth, indigenous to Earth and spread to Mars or
was spawned separately on the two planets.

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/168621671858

JTEM is my hero

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Dec 17, 2017, 3:25:04 PM12/17/17

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J.LyonLayden wrote:

> Bigfoot and I cruise for chicks together. He's definitely not a dinosaur.

I saw a documentary that proved Bigfoot was
real. It was called "Harry and the Hendersons."

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/168621671858

J.LyonLayden

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Dec 17, 2017, 3:35:04 PM12/17/17

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On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 3:25:04 PM UTC-5, JTEM is my hero wrote:
> J.LyonLayden wrote:
>
> > Bigfoot and I cruise for chicks together. He's definitely not a dinosaur.
>
> I saw a documentary that proved Bigfoot was
> real. It was called "Harry and the Hendersons."

That's exactly who I'm talking about! My friend was the same Harry! he told me they staged some of that documentary though....

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/168621671858

JTEM is my hero

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Dec 17, 2017, 4:10:05 PM12/17/17

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J.LyonLayden wrote:

> JTEM is my hero wrote:
> > J.LyonLayden wrote:
> >
> > > Bigfoot and I cruise for chicks together. He's definitely not a dinosaur.
> >
> > I saw a documentary that proved Bigfoot was
> > real. It was called "Harry and the Hendersons."

> That's exactly who I'm talking about! My friend was the
> same Harry! he told me they staged some of that
> documentary though....

I knew it! It was that DMV scene, right? No
visit is ever *That* quick or inexpensive!

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/168588373663

Jonathan

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Dec 17, 2017, 6:55:02 PM12/17/17

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On 12/17/2017 3:21 PM, JTEM is my hero wrote:
> Jonathan wrote:
>
>> The first MER rovers were designed to find
>> signs of water, not life.
>
> Viking found a sign of life, but it was
> inconclusive.
>

Viking was designed to look for evidence
for life, the rovers were not. And more
recent interpretations of the Viking
data favor life.

>> The rovers were deliberately designed not to
>> have the ability to prove life on Mars in
>> order to protect their wish for a sample
>> return mission or ultimately a manned
>> mission.

>
> There's other issues, "Contamination" being the
> most obvious. Unless you can absolutely-positively
> rule out contamination without so much as a
> shred of doubt, you want to hold off on declaring
> what would be the greatest scientific discovery
> since DNA or splitting the atom.
>

Decontaminating the rovers are to prevent
spores from infecting Mars, not to prevent
the experiments from being contaminated.

The science packages were not able to prove
life even if the rovers happened to land
in the middle of a field of moss.

And those capabilities were left off by
design.

> This is a biggie... "Life" elsewhere. It's something
> of a Holy Grail.
>
> You don't mess with it.
>
> "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs."
>
>> A discovery of life too soon would short
>> circuit those future missions as the
>> big goal would be already accomplished.
>
> True, but there are other factors.
>
> We could probably rule out contamination STATISTICALLY.
>
> At least onboard the probe.
>
> But what about interplanetary contamination?
> What about some variation on Panspermia where
> Toba or the K.T. impact send life-bearing rocks
> into space and some of them landed on Mars, where
> that life flourished?
>
> ...that would be an issue, would it not?
>

Do you really think an impact could send debris
to Mars?

Since Mars is outside the orbit of Earth that's
rather unlikely. It's far more likely Mars
life infected Earth.

> I honestly believe that nothing short of a RETURN
> TRIP can confirm "Life" and explain what it is...
> whether it is indigenous to Mars and spread to
> earth, indigenous to Earth and spread to Mars or
> was spawned separately on the two planets.
>

If you were to read the latest Astrobiology
Conference summaries, you'd see that the current
focus is on biosignatures, especially concerning
structural biosignatures. That wouldn't require
a decades long sample return or the immensely
costly and decades longer manned mission.

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/abscicon2017/program-abstracts/topics/

>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/168621671858

JTEM is my hero

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Dec 17, 2017, 7:40:03 PM12/17/17

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Jonathan wrote:

> Do you really think an impact could send debris
> to Mars?

Oh, this much is fact.

And traveling at escape velocity, it's a fact
that life could survive, lying dormant, for long
enough to reach the nearest solar systems... plural.

Again, this much is fact.

What isn't a fact is that life could survive the
eruption or impact, being hurled into space.

That's it. That is the one and only factor not
yet confirmed or falsified.

> Since Mars is outside the orbit of Earth that's
> rather unlikely.

Not really, no.

> It's far more likely Mars
> life infected Earth.

Either way, it's an issue that can really only be
addressed with a return trip from Mars.

> > I honestly believe that nothing short of a RETURN
> > TRIP can confirm "Life" and explain what it is...
> > whether it is indigenous to Mars and spread to
> > earth, indigenous to Earth and spread to Mars or
> > was spawned separately on the two planets.

> If you were to read the latest Astrobiology
> Conference summaries, you'd see that the current
> focus is on biosignatures, especially concerning
> structural biosignatures. That wouldn't require
> a decades long sample return or the immensely
> costly and decades longer manned mission.

If you read the post you were replying to, you'd
see that this tells us nothing about origins.

Quite frankly, "Life" is spectacular news but
"Alien Life that arose with no connection to the
earth" is orders of magnitude more important.

...and we'd need a return visit to study such
life -- or even to confirm that it is indeed such
life.

This might not be true in 100 years but neither of
us will be around to find out. See we just have to
accept that it's true right now.

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/167971863023

Pro Plyd

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Dec 25, 2017, 12:10:02 AM12/25/17

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What he said.

JTEM is my hero

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Dec 27, 2017, 2:35:02 PM12/27/17

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Rolf wrote:

> I am curious about Mars.

....apparently not THAT curious!

We have a martian meteorite displaying what
looks an awful lot like fossilized life. So
why don't we take the hyper definitive,
guaranteed-to-end-all-arguments testing that
was recently used to confirm that the oldest
known fossils are indeed fossils & use it
on the Mars rock?

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/168932391593