On 3/3/15 4:36 PM, Ray Martinez wrote:
> On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 7:39:51 PM UTC-8, Dana Tweedy wrote:
>> On 3/2/15 1:39 PM, Ray Martinez wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 1, 2015 at 3:49:55 PM UTC-8,
czeba...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> So now you have to imagine demons to prop up your pathetic cause. You are one sad case Rayray...
>>>>
>>>> gregwrld
>>>
>>> Just pointing out that the Biblical claim concerning existence of an invisible Deceiver is well supported by the sad facts of the Clergy Letter Project. Your inability understand is the only pathetic thing.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>> The Bible doesn't say that any deceiver is invisible, Ray. It's not a
>> Biblical claim, but your own.
>
> Imagine that; suddenly the Bible makes no claims about the existence of Satan.
that is not what I said, Ray. For someone who whines about being
"misrepresented", you certainly don't have any qualms about
misrepresenting others.
> I, Ray Martinez, originated the idea!
No, you seized on the idea of an "invisible deceiver", when the Bible
doesn't mention an invisible one. That is your own error.
>
> Here we have an EXCELLENT example of the brazen dishonesty of Evolutionists like Dana Tweedy and Burkhard.
Actually, Ray, you offer an excellent example of dishonesty above. My
statement, as well as Burkhard's statements were true, and honest.
> Every Atheist scholar in the world knows and agrees that the Bible makes CLAIMS about an invisible Deceiver known as Satan.
Would you please present a single "atheist scholar" who makes such a
claim?
>
>
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/dictionary-of-bible-themes/4123-Satan-as-deceiver
Ray, "bible gateway" is not an "atheist scholar", and it doesn't say
that Satan is invisible.
>
>>
>> In any case, you are the one who has been deceived, and you can't see
>> it. You are the one opposing Christians, and opposing God's work.
>>
>>
>> DJT
>
> Suddenly evolution is "God's work" (Dana Tweedy).
Of course evolution is God's work, Ray. All of nature is God's work,
and evolution is a big part of it. Why would it not be?
> If that were true Atheists would not be Evolutionists.
That doesn't follow, Ray. Atheists accept evolution because it's the
best scientific explanation for the evidence. That's the same reason
why Christians, and people of every religious belief also accept
evolution.
You seem to imagine that everyone is as irrational as yourself when
it comes to acceptance of evidence.
>
> Dana is enraged because I've identified the Clergy Letter Project as the best possible evidence supporting the Biblical claims about Satan.
Ray, you really bad at discerning people's moods through their writing.
I'm not "enraged". I am saddened that you are seemingly hell bent on
rejecting God's work, and you are fleeing as fast as you can toward the
side of evil, and hatred. You've turned your back of God and worship
ignorance, fear, and lies. I'm hoping you will turn back before it's
too late.
> So what does Dana our Evolutionist do?
I point out you are wrong, and that your hatred is evidence you reject
God.
> He denies the premise!
No, I point out where you are wrong. I don't deny the Bible talks
about a deceiver, but your insistence the being is invisible is
unsupported, and wrongheaded.
> But everyone agrees with the premise.
Ray, your "premise" is that the Bible makes a particular claim, when it
makes no such claim.
> Everyone understands that the Bible advocates an invisible supernatural being known as a Satan who exists to deceive people.
No, that's your own mistaken idea. You can't support it, and you won't
admit you are wrong. Therefore you keep trying to distract others from
your own error by spewing accusations.
It's a standard tactic you use whenever you get cornered, and it's quite
boring.
>
> The secular world rejects the existence of Satan BECAUSE they can't see him!
Actually, the "secular world" is not particularly interested in
religious claims without any verification. Whether or not Satan exists
has nothing to do with visibility.
> The secular world makes fun of the Bible for postulating the existence of an invisible Devil!
Actually, Ray, people make fun of you, because you claim something on
behalf of the Bible, that anyone who's even remotely familiar with the
book knows is not true. People who make outlandish claims about things
that they know little ,or nothing about tend to be seen as foolish, and
get teased about it.
> The secular world thinks we are crazy for believing in the existence of an invisible Deceiver!
Again, Ray, people think you are crazy, not for believing in an
"invisible deceiver", even though the Bible doesn't make any claim of
invisibility for that being. People mock you because you keep making
silly, unfounded claims, without a shred of evidence, and expect
everyone to just accept them as fact.
> All of these secular beliefs presuppose the Biblical CLAIM of an invisible Deceiver. (Yet the secular world has no problem believing in a host of invisible things as well.)
The point, you keep dancing around, Ray, is that the claim here is not
Biblical, it's your own claim. The Bible itself doesn't support your
assertion. You aren't capable of seeing the distinction between the
Bible referring to a deceiver, with your silly insistence the deceiver
being "invisible".
>
> Yet we have 13,000 "Christian" Ministers who claim to be following Christ and claim to speak for Christ in behalf of their congregations.
Those ministers have much more education, and training in understanding
the Bible, and the words of Christ than you do. You imagine yourself to
be "smarter" than them, simply because you reject a well established
scientific theory.
> Yet without any awareness of anything horribly wrong, or amiss, and without any conscience, these "Shepherds" stand with Atheists and reject the Biblical explanation of life.
In reality, those clergy members aren't aware that an uneducated, hate
filled, openly deluded internet stranger thinks they are wrong. Of
course they aren't going to have any conception they are doing wrong,
because they are not.
Opposing Ray Martinez's beliefs is not standing with atheists.
Rejecting a naive, and poorly thought out interpretation of the Bible is
not rejecting God's word. Seeing that God creates through natural laws
and processes is not rejecting the message that God created the
diversity of life.
>
> Again, there exists no better evidence supporting the existence of an invisible Deceiver than the Clergy Letter Project.
Yet it's Ray himself that supports the existence of a deceiver, as he is
so thoroughly deceived. He was deceived by false prophets, deceived by
liars, and deceived by his own ego. The clergy who accept evolution
are not deceived by those who deceived Ray. That is probably why Ray is
so resentful of those godly men and women.
>
> Judas was an original Apostle who saw Jesus perform mind-boggling miracles. Yet in the Garden of Gethsemane he betrayed his Master to His enemies. HOW could Judas do such a thing?
Probably for the same reason you have betrayed any Christian who opposes
your delusion.
>
> Here is the answer:
>
> LUKE 22 (KJV):
>
> "Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
>
> And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
>
> Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
>
> And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
>
> And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
>
> And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude."
>
> Except for a handful of Evolutionists here at Talk.Origins, everyone else understands that these verses say an invisible Deceiver possessed Judas----that's how and why Judas betrayed his Master.
What is your excuse for betraying Christ, Ray?
> So with Satan inside of him Judas delivered the infamous "Judas kiss" on the face of Christ without any awareness of anything horribly wrong or amiss.
Just as you, Ray have no idea that you are betraying others.
>
> So no one is exempt from the possibility of being deceived, not Apostles, not Pastors and Shepherds, not ordinary Christians.
Somehow, Ray can't imagine himself to be deceived.... why is that?
>
> What happened when Satan was through with Judas and left his body?
>
> He suddenly obtained a conscience, went out and hanged himself (verses available upon request).
>
> I guess Satan isn't through with the 13,000 Ministers of the Clergy Letter Project.
The ministers of the Clergy Letter Project aren't the ones being used,
Ray. Look to the log in your own eye.
DJT