Governance vs. Governments

[Jack Ring]

Is anyone interested in examining the U.S. Constitution from a system-theoretic point of view, particularly how actions since 1820 have distorted the system and perhaps even rendered it ineffective? This will NOT be a critique of political party platforms.

If so, pls reply directly to me, no need to Reply All.

Thanks,
Jack Ring

[David Ing]

Jack, the topic of governance is one that we should take offline (and you know that my dissertation writing means that my attention is rather divided for the next few months).

My suggestion that that you engage directly with David Hawk, as governance and government has been his primary interest for some time.  (Since David is advising on my dissertation, I've been down to Iowa to seem him frequently, of late).

A distinction that will be important is a differentiation between governance and management.  This was covered in our 2005 SRBS article, "Negotiated Order and Network Form Organizations", see http://coevolving.com/commons/200710_Negotiated_Order_and_Network_Form_Organizations .

In current research, David's view on architectural programming (in contrast to design) led to my exploring the distinction between a teleological and an ateleological design process.  This is written up in section 3.8 (about page 41 in the v1130 version) of "From Environmental Structure to Service Systems Thinking: Wholeness with Centers Described with a Generative Pattern Language" at http://coevolving.com/commons/201409-from-environmental-structure-to-service-systems-thinking .

These days, the preferred mode of sensemaking with David Hawk is probably one or more long phone calls.  He and I are spend so much time typing at keyboards that NOT writing is a relief.  He and I have been missing a biweekly teleconference in another community, where we could plan to hijack the agenda and bring you in for a conversation in January.

[Leonie Solomons]

Jack, yes I would be interested in this examination of the US constitution.

Since last week's Presidency election results in Sri Lanka, we are just commencing a re-think of our constitution and thus the US constitutional examination from a system-theoretic view would be timely and insightful.

During my PhD years, I did a partial review of the SL constitution using Beer's Viable Systems Model (VSM).

Look forward to this exchange, including a discussion of the framework specifics that will inform our thinking.

Leonie

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[Leonie Solomons]

Jack, yes I would be interested in this examination of the US constitution.

Since last week's Presidency election results in Sri Lanka, we are just commencing a re-think of our constitution and thus the US constitutional examination from a system-theoretic view would be timely and insightful.

During my PhD years, I did a partial review of the SL constitution using Beer's Viable Systems Model (VSM).

Look forward to this exchange, including a discussion of the framework specifics that will inform our thinking.

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Jack Ring <jri...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Len Troncale]

Jack and Colleagues....

...interested in examining governance or public policy using systems understanding. You should know that there are already two groups in INCOSE interested in precisely this topic. They were initiated by INCOSE members but are independent of the  professional society. THey have established an Institute and Center, respectively, on the topic. I have urged them to also start up a Working Group in INCOSE to attract more participants. One has already initiated their First Conference (co-sponsored by the San Diego INCOSE Chapter) at which I gave a recent paper. They are also starting a Journal on the topic. Altho' this is beyond the more specific topic of a systems analysis of the U.S. Constitution, that endeavor would certainly be a part of this broader coverage.

To wit specifics. Dr. David Schrunk, a San Diego M.D. and John Wood have established a Science of Laws Institute (has a webpage). Meanwhile, Dr. Franklin D. Nash of Indiana, quite independently and without knowledge of the San Diego effort established the Center for the Analysis of Science in Policy (also has a website). If you are interested in communicating with these individuals or nascent organizations I have emails, website URLs, and phone numbers. Even addresses in some cases.  Len

[Gerhard Chroust]

Quite interesting and challenging!

A constitution is established within the framework of - amongst MANY other aspects - based on the then available/feasible means of

communication (especially in large countries)  - see SWiss with its personal face-to-face voting as compared to the US with a representational set-up

gerhard

 

---------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Gerhard Chroust
J. Kepler University Linz
c/o Donaustr. 101/6,
A-2346 Maria Enzersdorf, Austria
+43 664 28 29 978
Gerhard...@jku.at

www.gerhard-chroust.at

>>> Len Troncale <lentr...@gmail.com> 12.01.2015 17:49 >>>

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