Fwd: Speak up for Science! - support the March for Science

[James Martin]

fyi

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: International Federation for Systems Research <if...@ofai.at>
Date: Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:39 AM
Subject: Speak up for Science!  - support the March for Science
To: mart...@gmail.com

This IFSR Newsflash informs you of the latest news on the IFSR home-page. To read the complete information please access "www.ifsr.org".   View this email in your browser Inb   View this email in your browser After a long and hard discussion the IFSR Executive Committe decided to send out this appeal to you to join the International March for Science on Earth Day, April 22, 2017 (see: https://www.marchforscience.com/mission/) Dear IFSR Members and Colleagues,   We are writing to you today as a concerned and conscientious scientists about that state of our field globally. As we all are becoming increasingly aware, we live in contentious times and, if you are like us, you are wondering about how to be strategic and effective in any actions you take in advocacy for our field. For several professional and personal reasons, many of us reserve our opinions to our specialties in which we have the most knowledge and authority. We judiciously venture beyond those parameters, especially in the theatre of public opinion, only when absolutely necessary. When we do, it is usually in service to the continuation of our work or until such times that public opinion no longer supports that work. We have been fortunate to have public support in the past; however, with national leadership in many countries questioning the veracity and value of this work and science itself, there are no guarantees that public confidence will prevail. We are now in times in which we are compelled to take action.   Understanding the mission of the IFSR as apolitical, we thought long and hard about sending this appeal to you to join the International March for Science on Earth Day, April 22, 2017 (see: https://www.marchforscience.com/mission/) As leaders in international organizations promoting scientific knowledge and application, your voices are influential in public discourse and can add significant momentum to the success of this event and its mission (learning and education). You can read more about the rationale for joining the fray here: NPR: http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2017/02/12/513873493/why-id-rather-not-march Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/02/09/the-march-for-science-is-gaining-mainstream-momentum/?utm_term=.70a9a1fbd70e   We are not asking that your organization formally endorse this march, although we would not object to it. We are asking you and your members to consider exploring the possibility of becoming involved in this event (either by marching or supporting it) and inviting others in our community to do the same. This link will take you to the site and you can find a local march in your region (https://www.marchforscience.com/satellite-marches/). This is an international event - there are satellite marches in Adelaide, Auckland Berlin, London, Mexico City, Paris, Vienna, and many more cities globally. If there isn't a march in your city, you may want to start organizing one now.   While we encourage you to join our fellow scientists in sending a strong message of unity in the value of scientific inquiry and knowledge, We understand that you may not feel compelled to do so. We appreciate your position and link arms with you whenever we can advance the systems sciences, cybernetics, and systems engineering in other venues. Thank you for considering this appeal to raise conscientious of the value science brings to all.   On behalf of the Executive Committee of the International Federation for Systems Research,   Mary C. Edson, Ph.D., IFSR President Copyright ©ifsr 2016 All rights reserved. Our mailing address is: if...@ofai.at Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list   Copyright ©ifsr 2016 All rights reserved. Our mailing address is: if...@ofai.at Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list

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James

[Jack Ring]

Will there be a parallel march to encourage improving the practice of science including the detection of fake science? 

While championing evidence-based decisions shall we also warn about evidence-based predictions, particularly those that do not estimate the applicable dynamic and integrity limits that are characteristic of all systems and moreso of highly complex systems?

Will the April marchers champion the science of detecting ‘that which is not science’ such as groupthink and clanthink? 

Is our first clue regarding the scientific viability of this march the unbalanced citation of only NPR and the Washington Post?

Jack Ring

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: International Federation for Systems Research <if...@ofai.at>
Date: Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:39 AM
Subject: Speak up for Science!  - support the March for Science
To: mart...@gmail.com

--

James

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[Steven Krane]

4 in 10 of the US population (in one survey) believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.  Is that belief the kind of fake science, groupthink, and clan think you are talking about?  Or is that just an instance of Not Science.  Its an honest question.  I don’t know where those 40% of our population are getting their information.  Given the very low bar we are starting from, I think you first have to become aware of science and develop some interest in it.  Once your head is in the game so to speak, then you can start to discern and discuss fallibility, degrees of belief, settled questions and so on.  Many of us are starting from scratch.  I’d rather not think about what that says about us as a culture.  It does seem dangerous to put the products of science (technology) in the hands of people who think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.  I think the march is about trying to move people from Level 0 to Level 0.1.  Your concerns are for people at a higher level…IMHO

[Jack Ring]

I suspect that the IFSR interested in impressing a segment of society that has more interest (funding) of 'science' than the 40 percent you mention. Regardless my questions are addressed to those promoting the March not to the intended observers.

On the issue of gene editing the age of the earth is not very important.

On Feb 22, 2017 2:13 PM, "Steven Krane" <sk5...@gmail.com> wrote:

4 in 10 of the US population (in one survey) believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.  Is that belief the kind of fake science, groupthink, and clan think you are talking about?  Or is that just an instance of Not Science.  Its an honest question.  I don’t know where those 40% of our population are getting their information.  Given the very low bar we are starting from, I think you first have to become aware of science and develop some interest in it.  Once your head is in the game so to speak, then you can start to discern and discuss fallibility, degrees of belief, settled questions and so on.  Many of us are starting from scratch.  I’d rather not think about what that says about us as a culture.  It does seem dangerous to put the products of science (technology) in the hands of people who think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.  I think the march is about trying to move people from Level 0 to Level 0.1.  Your concerns are for people at a higher level…IMHO

On Feb 22, 2017, at 8:44 AM, Jack Ring <jri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Will there be a parallel march to encourage improving the practice of science including the detection of fake science? 

While championing evidence-based decisions shall we also warn about evidence-based predictions, particularly those that do not estimate the applicable dynamic and integrity limits that are characteristic of all systems and moreso of highly complex systems?

Will the April marchers champion the science of detecting ‘that which is not science’ such as groupthink and clanthink? 

Is our first clue regarding the scientific viability of this march the unbalanced citation of only NPR and the Washington Post?

Jack Ring

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: International Federation for Systems Research <if...@ofai.at>
Date: Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:39 AM
Subject: Speak up for Science!  - support the March for Science
To: mart...@gmail.com

--

James

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[Steven Krane]

I think we are accidentally agreeing.  My mistake ;)

The parallel march to which you are referring is a march of a different population; the population that claims and influences custodianship of the practice of science.  This march is not that.

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[Aleksandar Malečić]

Sometimes one needs to walk the talk and take risks to the point of
being exposed to potential failure (my case and offline activities).
Don't expect from other people to be more enthusiastic about your
ideas and work than you are. A more recent example - This Saturday
there was a webinar. When I ask for that mind map, I (just as anyone
else would be) am ignored. It's more challenging to keep enthusiasm
about systems than some other activities, especially if people working
on that aren't true believers..

Aleksandar

[Curt McNamara]

Thanks for your reminder! My intent is to update the dropbox folder this weekend with the materials sent in. I don't intend to publish my notes right now. It is great to know there is interest in them. 

We will have a webinar on applications using metaphor on March 17th, and i will send a notice of that. 

     Curt

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 5:07 AM James Martin <mart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Aleksandar,

To be fair, the organizer of the webinar is not a member of the SSWG so he likely did not see your request for the mind map ...

James