Systems Research Within a System

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Aleksandar Malečić

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Apr 22, 2016, 6:00:09 AM4/22/16
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I don't see here anyone mentioning Sunny Auyang except when I mentioned her. She seems to be, quality and contribution-wise, up there with von Bertalanffy's work.

Regardless of whether she is really so great or it just seems to me, the fact is that there is a lot of quality work out there, some of it perhaps from a relatively distant past (How many biologists have heard of Robert Rosen?). Who knows, maybe even all or the majority of relevant fragments of General Systems Theory are out there waiting to be combined. On the other hand, what would an anonymous reviewer do with something that is challenging for a pinnacle scientist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Cantor: The objections to Cantor's work were occasionally fierce: Henri Poincaré referred to his ideas as a "grave disease" infecting the discipline of mathematics, and Leopold Kronecker's public opposition and personal attacks included describing Cantor as a "scientific charlatan", a "renegade" and a "corrupter of youth."


Aleksandar

joseph simpson

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Apr 22, 2016, 2:30:57 PM4/22/16
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Aleksander:

There are many aspects of life that impact any given human value judgement.  Is an idea correct?  Is a statement true? Is a type of thinking valuable? 

It has been my experience that almost all individuals allow their current social and economic condition to impact their logic, science and technical products.

As individuals become invested in a specific pattern of thought and/or specific thinking habits they move away from science and logic and just respond in a conditioned manner.

This type of habitual behavior drives a vast majority of human thought.  I do not believe that this type of behavior will stop any time soon.

Take care, be good to yourself and have fun,

Joe

 



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Joe Simpson

“Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. 

Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. 

All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.”

George Bernard Shaw

Lenard Troncale

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Apr 22, 2016, 3:18:40 PM4/22/16
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I have frequently referred to Auyung. She is on all my lists in papers going back several years. I brought her up specifically at the ISSS pre-conference session in San Jose in 2012 when we endeavored to list as a group all whose work should be incorporated in GST synthesis. I think we came up with a list of 52 lifeworks or so (in 30 min) which I then added to to get 87 or more. [see Table One for a paper rejected by INCOSE at one point whose URL to access from my Dropbox is


 I keep adding to it as I learn of new peoples work that should be included. It is now over 100 in my personal list.

In regard specifically to Auyung, who is a physicist, it is unusual for one so tied into mathematical physics to be involved with a search for isomorphies (she does not call them that). But apparently her brother and his untimely death at a comparatively young age caused her to search for similarities between some of the sciences (namely physics, biology, and economics). BUT there are many more physicists that include valuable systems theory information (true isomorphs) on things never regarded as important to GST like symmetry, supersymmetry, fields, duality, self-criticality etc. etc. where they have a lot to contribute but are ignored completely by ISSS systems theorists.

These ignorances of data and info available are characteristic of this field of GST in modern times. If you look up the NECSI conferences you will find a much better appreciation of some of them but then that group ignores many of the old insights.

Systems Processes Theory takes all of these into account and tries to integrate them. That is its whole purpose.

Len


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