Omg... I shot and scored

[Charley Jones]

Group needed a vending machine and I found it on the cheap.  Muwahaha... hacking begins

On Apr 27, 2012 10:20 PM, <syn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

[James Cole]

Perfect machine!

--
James Cole

Sent from my Tricorder

[Chris Ainsworth]

Hah, that's great! Is it up and running, or will it need some work first? Does the bill reader accept modern bills?

-- 

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www.driph.com

[Krux]

It accepts modern quarters.

perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

[Chris Ainsworth]

So, next step, change machine?

-- 

C

[Brian Munroe]

You're thinking too conventional!

This thing will be "internet enabled" in which the user submits payment via CC through a web interface, then given a 128 character code to enter via the vending machine keypad.

Or a QR code will be SMSed / emailed to the user that s/he can "show" the vending machine as proof of payment.

-- brian

[eduprey]

LOL, I realize this is a joke, but a smartphone web server interface in which you set up an account and add funds to it, then if logged in can directly charge purchases to it would be handy. 

Even NFC payment could work.

I've seen vending machines like this set up with electronics kits instead of / in addition to snacks.

Eric

[Ian Hayes]

Amateurs. You're thinking too conventionally. The machine mines bitcoins while accepting them for payment.

On Apr 29, 2012 8:41 PM, "eduprey" <edu...@gmail.com> wrote:

LOL, I realize this is a joke, but a smartphone web server interface in which you set up an account and add funds to it, then if logged in can directly charge purchases to it would be handy. 

Even NFC payment could work.

I've seen vending machines like this set up with electronics kits instead of / in addition to snacks.

Eric

On Saturday, April 28, 2012 6:14:05 PM UTC-7, Brian Munroe wrote:
>

> You're thinking too conventi...

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[Andrew Morrow]

I've got a lot of experience setting up internet enabled vending. 

I've even got a pretty slick way of interfacing these older machines to the internet.   It would be good to get a model number, but this unit will LIKELY use MDB or at least have a reasonably modern coin acceptor that can be interfaced with.

Happy to help - I've done it successfully a few times.

[kr...@thcnet.net]

> Amateurs. You're thinking too conventionally. The machine mines bitcoins
> while accepting them for payment.

Bitcoins are worthless these days. Probably because they're not real money.

[Ian Hayes]

Well yeah... I was half expecting a certain alumnus from where you
work to be on this list. He's a pretty hardcore evangelist for bitcoin
and I waste no opportunity to poke at him for it.

[Razoboi Freeman]

I would have to disagree, bitcoins do have value. And gaining more value everyday

[n8]

An actual bitcoin vending machine:

http://www.upstatenetworks.com/researchDev.htm

[Krux]

Hacerspace coins have more value, as they are backed by awesome.

perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

n8 <nathan....@gmail.com> wrote:


An actual bitcoin vending machine:

http://www.upstatenetworks.com/researchDev.htm

[Brian Munroe]

On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 5:41 PM, eduprey <edu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> LOL, I realize this is a joke, but a smartphone web server interface in
> which you set up an account and add funds to it, then if logged in can
> directly charge purchases to it would be handy.
>
> Even NFC payment could work.
>
> I've seen vending machines like this set up with electronics kits instead of
> / in addition to snacks.

Actually I was being serious. We *do* want to have higher priced
items in the machine (kits, arduinos, consumables, weird european
candy, etc) and some kind of payment system hooked up to amazon
payments / paypal / SYN Shop Square / Stripe accounts would be ideal.
We don't have to worry about handling cash at the space AND you don't
have to pump in $15 worth of quarters, dimes and nickels.

I was kidding about the 128 character code on the keypad, but I could
see some kind of NFC / RFID (the membership cards will probably be
RFID) / QR Code / Bitcoin interface.

-- brian

[Andrew Morrow]

All of this is pretty easy, we just need to determine if we're going to have the web interface directly dispense the product, or if the web interface will add credits to the machine so that the user could then press a button to dispense any product at or under the paid amount. 

Adding credits is usually pretty easy, and can be done by hacking into the coin acceptor and just chucking a relay in there.   Actuating the individual screws can be more complex.  If the machine DOES have a good MDB implementation, it can be done no worries, though MDB is a nasty beast.   Otherwise, we can throw some relays in and control the individual screws with a microcontroller connected to the internet.  

[Krux]

I like the idea of adding credits.  And the user can get what they want.  they could badge in to the machine and bring up their account status.  Something else that would be cool is to take credit card payments for donations from the machine.

perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

[Andrew Morrow]

The only issue with adding credits is if the user then selects something of lesser value.   If they pump in $75, then only select a $20 item, it makes for fun reconciliation and refunding.

[shawn looker]

Add a big disclaimer saying that any screw ups will be donated to the synshop :D

[Chris Ainsworth]

How bout this guy? :]

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/bfs/2988441356.html

-- 

Chris Ainsworth

www.driph.com

[Crash]

Why not set up something where they text a number and it charges them through their phone provider? (Kind of like the way people used to buy games and apps on cellphones.)

[Crash]

I like Dave the Dino.

How bout this guy? :]

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[n8]

Just triggering the coin validator is brilliant (quarter tones from a red box, anyone?), but I think that when we were looking at the manual, the pricing of items only went up to a dollar. 

When we were looking at these from the front, the motors looked like stepper motors, but after looking at the pictures Charley put on facebook, I'm not so sure. I've never seen a motor that looks like that before. If you use relays, do you just guess at the time required for a single turn? I figured there would be some kind of position sensor/switch we might have to read. We probably need to do some multiplexing to address 30 motors efficiently.

And since it took me a few minutes to figure out what MDB was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multidrop_bus

[Krismon ongbongan]

the cell companies take 30-40% commission, that's why you only see digital goods on them.

Kris.

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[Andrew Morrow]

The secret is that you don't make anything cost over $1.00.  Then you just shift the values.  If you want to sell a kit for $10, you make the machine think it's $.10.  That way you don't have to get hacky with it. 

The best thing would be to get 1. the model number for  the vending machine and 2. the model number for the coin acceptor.

[Evan Pipho]

As far as payments go I think you guys are overcomplicating it.
Assuming you can hook up direct control of the coils, I would just
hook up to the paypal, google wallet, and possibly amazon payment APIs
and just have an internal webserver trigger the machine when it gets
payment confirmation. You could even build it into a nice touch
panel interface on the front of the machine.

On another note, we (meaning SYN Shop) has a reseller/hackerspace
account with adafruit. This gives us a small discount (~10%) on a
lot of stuff (arduino included) and a larger (up to 30% even on
quantities of 1) on adafruit brand kits and components, including
their in-house arduino shields.

For instance https://www.adafruit.com/products/376 (touch shield) is
$41 instead of 59, minty boosts are $14 instead of $20. The only
restriction is we need to order $250 at a time, which isn't that hard
to do.

I would be more than willing to not only run a group order, but also
front a bit of cash to stock this machine with a handfull of kits and
useful goodies with the extra going to the syn shop fund.

-Evan

[Andrew Morrow]

I've built Android tablets into vending machines before.  It's almost always a better idea to interface with the hardware rather than hack it.  Some of the motors are NOT easy to interface with.   If you can imagine building up the hardware to control 24 steppers, you can see why it's better to just play nice.   Even if not steppers, it's not trivial to drive all those screws.   That said, there are a dozen ways to do it.

[Charley Jones]

I posted more pictures to the Syn Shop facebook page.
Especially pictures of the selector, display, motherboard, and
acceptor.
The system is MARS based,
Which means, it's already plug and play.
Modular, 24v.
Any one of the components can be replaced,
If you just handle the signals properly.
Machine also has a digital display,
One of those 8-12 segment/character LED jobs.

The manual I found in the machine is missing 14 pages,
But the schematics are fully intact.
Will try to track down a full online version.
It's a Vendu 30 Model.

From what I can see,
The machine can take any combination up to $3.15
Currently can take Dollar Coins, Quarters, Nickels, and Dimes.
Does not appear to make touch tones,
But has bundles of cables running to each device.

I think the simplest idea is to post QC codes on the glass for each
item.
Scanning the QR code, you make payment, then machine receives
confirmation and vends the product.
That's basically taking over the selector, display, and acceptor.
Best part, no money in the machine.

Alternatively, purchase a product from the website,
Receive an 8 digit code.
Punch this into the machine and receive your product.
Again, no money in the machine.

We only have to simulate the right peripheral to control the machine.

[Bill Tomiyasu]

From the vendoco.com website:

SandenVendo America, Inc. in Dallas, TX only manufactures vending machines for use in today's marketplace. SandenVendo sells parts for 10 years after the last production date of any modern vending machine model.  The two companies listed below specialize in vintage vending machine equipment. They will be able to assist you in dating, appraising, and finding replacement parts for your machine.  Remember When Collectibles  6570 Memorial Drive  Stone Mountain, GA 30083  770-879-7878  770-870-8803 (fax)  rem...@bellsouth.net  www.fiftiescollectibles.com  Fun-Tronics, Inc.  P.O. Box 448  Middletown, MD 21796  301-371-5246  www.users.conninc.com/photohost/ebners1.htm

--BillT
bi...@synshop.org

[Charley Jones]

Damn Bill.

You're right on it again.

 

Vendu was what I read from a really bad spapshot.

It's think it's a Vendo 30.

Looking for the full manual.

But I did find the meat of the manual, 14 pages missing though, inside the machine.

 

Attaching pictures of the machine tag.

I think most of the info is warn away.

Intentionally or not.

Poor lighting in that area of the garage.

Will light better and try again.

 

Going to look and see if any other tags hidden inside the machine.

[Bill Tomiyasu]

From the quick search I did this morning, the Vendo Model 30 isn't being made anymore.  I couldn't find a manual online for it, but my search wasn't extensive.  I did see a manual for the Vendo Vue 30/40, but the front panel doesn't look like your photos.  It's much more modern.  One of the vintage vending machine websites might have something though.  Just a thought.

--BillT
bi...@synshop.org

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[Andrew Morrow]

Best guess:
http://www.vendnetusa.com/wfdata/files/4020808.pdf

--

[Andrew Morrow]

Yup. That seems to be the one. Model 2042. Name 30H.

[Charley Jones]

Oh Andrew!

You freak'n rock man!

That's exactly the right manual.

I can recognize it from the pages on the Multi Price II Coinage System $3.15

10 bonus points to you.

 

Only real worry I have now is the helixes.

If you look at the photos, I only have 5 without a center rod.

The 25 center rod helixes seems to work with a divider (that I have).

So the package is about cigarette sized.

 

Going to experiment with some of my smt kits.

[Charley Jones]

Of course I grabbed the manual.

Nice one Andrew.

Will send or post to docs if anyone is interested.

[Andrew Morrow]

Best tested with your multimeter, but those look like 24VAC synchronous motors.  If the motor cycle switch just takes a timed connection, you can get away with a few of these and have it easy:
http://www.mdfly.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_138&products_id=800

Check it out with your meter to make sure that's all that's going on and take a look at pages 18 and 19 to see where the wires terminate.   Not at ALL trying to be Mr Smartie - I've just done it before and know some of the pitfalls!

--

[n8]

Yeah, so it looks like the switch mechanically attached to the motor starts in the "open" position. The main controller board feeds the motor a pulse which moves the motor a bit. This movement closes the switch which drives the motor until the movement opens the switch again stopping the motion.

[n8]

So, with the built in system, it sounds like we have 63 different pricing levels. So if we choose $1 as the pricing increment, we can have item prices from $1 to $63. That's not too bad. But, it looks like the machine only supports 4 price zones (Top 2 shelves, next 2 shelves, bottom shelf) which kind of sucks. 

I think we should probably just remove the existing controller board and payment system and hack the rest.  That relay board looks nice. We can use an arduino or something similar to run the machine and shiva plug | rasberry pi | android phone to handle the internet connection and stock on it. It might be good to run some sort of server backend in the cloud as well for higher availability, but that probably introduces extra monthly costs.

For the interface, I like the idea of a QR code. We could just have one for the machine that takes you to a web store, or individual QR codes for each item that take you to a checkout for the item. QR codes would probably need to be put just inside of the glass on the front (instead of on the trays) for scan-ability. There's also the issue of whether to immediately dispense an item or provide some additional method of authenticating yourself at the machine and having it dispense your stored purchase. The first way seems easier. And like Evan said, we can allow all kinds of different payment methods on the web store.