Can you stream DVD-A Audio Object Files with a DLNA server?

[citysoundman]

I have a bunch of DVD-A discs stored as .iso files. I mount them on my
desktop (Mac), and I would like to stream the hi res DVD-A files
(Audio Object Files, or AOB's) to my Oppo BDP-93. Currently I am using
Twonky, and I can only stream the VOB Dolby Surround files in the
VIDEO_TS folder, not the AOB files in the AUDIO_TS folder. It seems
that Twonky does not support AOB streaming.

Is it possible to stream the AOB files? Or is it standard practice to
convert the files to Flac and stream them as Flac? I would love to be
able to stream the AOB's if possible.

Thanks in advance!

[grill]

I've heard that Oppo with the latest firmware can play DVD isos.
However, I'm not sure this would also apply to DVDA isos, especially
for the case of streaming the hi-res part from Mac. And not talking
about SACD-R isos..... Unfortunately, I don't have Oppo to give it a
try :-(

[realafrica]

Most people I know convert all to flac for streaming, but there may be
new ways especially with the Oppo.
Why not talk to Oppo about it?
For myself, I am just now coming to such a hurdle, & yet need to get
my server sorted out first.

[scolumbo]

I use Twonky to stream to my Oppo 93. Unfortunately, the Oppo supports
the VOB container format, but not AOB. I have FLAC files ripped from
most of my DVD-A's so they can be streamed via Twonky. No problem
streaming multichannel or stereo FLAC files ripped from DVD-A's.
However, since Oppo began supporting ISO's from attached storage, I
now play my DVD-A ISO's on the Oppo from an attached hard drive. It's
nice to have full menu control and access to any videos and the hi-rez
stereo tracks from the ISO's. The hard drive attached to the Oppo
also serves as a back-up to the ISO's on my PC hard drive. The only
hassle is disconnecting the attached hard drive and lugging it the PC
to synch/add files. There is currently no way to stream ISO's via
DLNA, supposedly because the DLNA protocol doesn't support it.

[August Bleed]

You can't stream an iso but you can most definitely play an iso of a DVD-A, a DVD, a BluRay, a 3dBluray, and the ability to play AVCHD files by just selecting the BDMV file folder and it will treat the folder as a disc image as well with the expected menus and DTS-HD MSTR support and the like.  As per the other person, you can stream VOB depending on your media server, but AOB can't be streamed either.  One program, Playback media server on the mac provides playback of m2ts music files with DTS   HD MSTR support over DLNA believe it or not.  However the performance was a little spotty streaming that particular kind of encoding.  If you allow the Oppo to convert it to LPCM it sometimes will aid some of the hiccups that you get over the network without compromising the sound quality all that much.  Hope that helps.  I started a thread at computer audiophile.com for oppo bdp 93/95 users to chime in about how to get things to play on the mac side.  It also serves as a place to ask questions and provides some basic info.  best to you!

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August
Bleed, Inc.
Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog

[citysoundman]

Thanks for the reply. BTW I see you are on The Hub, I am now a member
there.

So since the Oppo doesn't support AOB's then that rules out the idea
of AOB streaming. Not a bad thing actually, since I realize that there
are many options that I am sorting through in order to figure out how
best to organize and play material. Knowing that the Oppo plays iso's
on attached storage might help me figure things out. But it seems that
Flac is really the most flexible file type - it can be streamed
easily, can hold multichannel and hi res media, and it doesn't take up
tons of storage.

So is the idea of keeping a "complete" Flac collection (ALL of my
audio, both hi res/multichannel and stereo CD audio) a good one? If
so, I guess I will be keeping multiple file types of the same album -
I want the iso's for backup/disc burning and the flacs for streaming/
playback. Or perhaps once I burn the DVD-A disc I can keep this as my
backup, have the flac for playback, and in theory I wouldn't need the
iso anymore...some food for thought.

I believe a 4-bay NAS device is next on my list.

[August Bleed]

a sorta hub member how bout that?  I am operating my network in bridge mode from my roommates network so the accessing the hub and vice versa isn't possible.  Also my roommates router is a serious POS and doesn't even have advanced features so I am unable to share or sample.  But I like multichannel music and have figured it out despite it's best efforts to keep me from all of it's channels.  You know flacs are extremely flexible in terms of dlna support you are absolutely correct.  depending on your os PS3 media server and Playback are both excellent in terms of providing not only MC PCM support but dts flac support as well.  It is aslso adept at handling your wavs too no matter their idiosyncrasies as well...like dts encoding or PCM encoding of more than 2 channels.  Flac seems to win out on the oppo tho.  Have yet to have problems if the DLNA supports native streaming.

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[August Bleed]

Oh Drobos are slow as molasses but they are rock solid in terms of protecting your data.  Had several drives fail but never lost any data.  It will even tell you to put a drive back in if you take too many out at once before you lose data.  Not very fast, but not too expensive and the features are pretty worthy if you value your data.

[citysoundman]

I just re-read your post, and now I see the advantage to iso attached
playback on the Oppo - menu control/video playback, etc. This makes me
wonder: what are the specific differences/limitations of ripped flacs
vs. the original DVD-A besides not having menu control and access to
videos?

And can you rip flacs from both the hi-res/lossless AOB's as well as
the VOB's? (of course the AOB's are what you want.)

Thanks!

On Aug 1, 5:28 pm, scolumbo <sacolu...@gmail.com> wrote:

[August Bleed]

yes you can....Well basically the iso is the same as the disc...the flacs aren't...so if you like menu support, the ability to flip between 2 and 5 channels, that kind of thing, the iso is the way to go.  Plus its one file.  It does take more room.  But I would much rather have the source than a simile of the source even if the two are bit perfect identical...much easier for archiving and playback.

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[citysoundman]

Thanks so much for the info. Would you mind just clarifying for me:

> You can't stream an iso but you can most definitely play an iso of
a DVD-A,
> a DVD, a BluRay, a 3dBluray, and the ability to play AVCHD files by just
> selecting the BDMV file folder and it will treat the folder as a disc image
> as well with the expected menus and DTS-HD MSTR support and the like.

Do you mean specifically playing an iso from the Oppo BDP93 attached
storage?
The BDP93 can access any of these file types if they are iso's?
If so, then would it make sense to keep my iso collection on a drive
attached to the Oppo, while keeping my flacs on a streaming server?
That sounds like a good arrangement.

[August Bleed]

yes i meant precisely what I wrote.  You can access all your discs by making images of them and attaching an ntfs formatted drive to the oppo and pressing a disk image to play it.  You need to have the latest firmware installed for this to work.

[August Bleed]

If you need further instructions go to computer audiophile dot com under forums under music servers and look for the oppo 93 thread.

[citysoundman]

Thanks, that is a very good thread, and a good forum as well!

On Aug 1, 10:19 pm, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you need further instructions go to computer audiophile dot com under
> forums under music servers and look for the oppo 93 thread.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > yes i meant precisely what I wrote.  You can access all your discs by
> > making images of them and attaching an ntfs formatted drive to the oppo and
> > pressing a disk image to play it.  You need to have the latest firmware
> > installed for this to work.
>

[scolumbo]

I end up keeping both the FLAC's and the ISO. The FLAC's stay on my
network drive for streaming purposes, and the ISO's reside on the hard
drive attached to the Oppo. I like the flexibility of playing FLAC's
using Twonky, especially the ability to easily select tracks by genre,
artist, etc. or set up playlists. Also, one of the recent firmware
revisions made selecting and retrieving FLAC files via Twonky very
fast compared to the original firmware in the Oppo. The ISO is nice
to have if you want to burn a backup copy to a disc or access the
other material such as videos, etc. It requires more hard drive space
to keep both the ISO and FLAC files, but each serves it's purpose.

Be aware that there have been reports of some multi-bay enclosures not
working with the Oppo. The Oppo also does not currently support hard
drives larger than 2TB's. I have been in contact with Oppo and they
are supposed to be investigating this and hopefully there will be a
firmware update to support 3TB and larger hard drives in the future.

[scolumbo]

I am currently creating ISO's of all my disc media, including DVD-V's
and Blu-rays, as well as my DVD-A's which are already completed. I am
quickly filling up lots of hard drive space, especially with the Blu-
rays.

Be aware that the one ISO that will not currently play on the Oppo are
the SACD-R ISO's. They will play on burned DVD-R discs, but not from
the ISO.

On Aug 1, 10:19 pm, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yes i meant precisely what I wrote.  You can access all your discs by making
> images of them and attaching an ntfs formatted drive to the oppo and
> pressing a disk image to play it.  You need to have the latest firmware
> installed for this to work.
>

[August Bleed]

You said that the oppo won't play sacd iso's from the attached HDD right?  But you said it would play the resultant file ripped to a DVD?  Have you tried taking the ripped DVD and making an .iso out of that?  It sounds counterintuitive because they should be the same file.  But Im thinking that may be the workaround.  Would ya try it and lemme know?  We are really hoping this support pans out somehow.  I'd like to share this information with some others if you can confirm for me.  Thanks.  Oh and thanks for the compliment on the thread.  Hoping it helps.

[scolumbo]

Tab,
I've been able to get foobar to stream FLAC files to the Oppo, but not
ISO or AOB.

I believe DLNA is needed to stream to the Oppo because Samba isn't
supported. It will read local files on an attached hard drive, but not
network shares. Thus, you need a DLNA server to serve up the files to
the Oppo.

There is a Twonky I-phone and Android app but I don't know about
foobar. I've tried the Twonky I-phone app and it's very buggy
currently. Hopefully, future revisons will improve on it.


On Aug 2, 10:00 am, Tab Cursor <tabcur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone tried playing around with FOO UP & PEE?
>
> Foobar2000 playsback AOB files. The UPnP / DLNA media streaming
> component is here:
>
> http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_upnp
>
> I don't have an OPPO, but I am evaluating a DLNA streaming receiver.
> I'll see if Foobar will stream to it using this component.
>
> Tell me again, why do we need DLNA? What was so bad about Windows File
> Sharing? Was anyone created a Foobar App for portable devices yet?

> > > Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

[scolumbo]

hmmm.... interesting, I'll try it and see what happens.

[August Bleed]

Thanks so much feel free to email me personally as well.  Like I said I would like to report the results so that others who are attempting to do this have an idea if it is going to work...we are all sorta holding our breaths...and I can't get on the hub to grab an sacd iso to try this stuff out myself...I don't need to confirm that your receiver decodes DSD and all that right?  I'm trying to be certain if it indeed does not work that it is not some hardware limitation...but if you got the DVD to work...then i guess I answered my own question!!!  Anyway let us know!!!!

[scolumbo]

In answer to your question, yes you can rip FLAC's from VOB's or
AOB's. Just be sure to label the source of these FLAC files if you
decide to share FLAC's ripped from a VOB container (lossy DTS or DD)
so that someone doesn't mistake these lossy files as lossless. There
was a discussion of this in another thread at SSGG awhile back.

The FLAC files should be identical to the original source, just
compressed losslessly.

[scolumbo]

Unfortunately, it didn't work. I tested using the E. Power Biggs SACD-
R ISO that I had previously burned to a DVD and which I had played on
the Oppo several times. I used DVDFab to create an ISO from the DVD
disc. I get the same "File Not Supported" message on the Oppo. I can
play the ISO ripped from the DVD disc on my pc using foobar so the ISO
is not the problem.

I have SACD output set to PCM on the Oppo to let it do the decoding,
but my AVR can also decode DSD (Denon 3808). So, I changed the setting
in Oppo to send the DSD directly to my Denon, but that made no
difference. The Oppo just can't read the SACD-R ISO.

By the way, the Oppo can can play FLAC files created from the SACD-R
ISO, just not the ISO directly. Either a DVD disc has to be burned, or
FLAC files created from the ISO.

[August Bleed]

So then those files undergo some kind of PCM conversion right? I'm assuming the flacs don't carry the DSD signal? And what is the conversion tool? BTW thanks for testing that. I don't have any iso's of sacd's. Also any effect on sound quality to flac vs just playing a burnt disc? And by sacd-r I am thinking you mean iso to DVD?

August
Bleed Inc.
Selling art is tying your ego to a leash and walking it like a dog.

Sent from the BleedPod.

[scolumbo]

Someone more knowledgeable than me should explain the conversion
process, but I believe the end result is a PCM to FLAC. If I
understand correctly, scarletbook is used to extract the individual
DFF files and then a tool such as Saracon converts these to FLAC.
However, there are some necessary intermediary steps. I haven't done
the conversion myself but there are folks around here that have. There
appears to be some debate whether there is a negative effect on sound
quality with the conversion. I think the generally accepted opinion is
the burnt DVD disc represents the highest quality. Foobar can also
play the ISO without any additional extraction or conversion with the
SACD plug-in.

On Aug 2, 6:41 pm, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So then those files undergo some kind of PCM conversion right?  I'm assuming the flacs don't carry the DSD signal?  And what is the conversion tool?  BTW thanks for testing that.  I don't have any iso's of sacd's.  Also any effect on sound quality to flac vs just playing a burnt disc?  And by sacd-r I am thinking you mean iso to DVD?
>
> August
> Bleed Inc.
> Selling art is tying your ego to a leash and walking it like a dog.
>
> Sent from the BleedPod.
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[scolumbo]

My last statement is not worded correctly. Foobar plays the ISO
natively without the need for additional extraction or conversion, but
the Foobar plug-in itself does the conversion to PCM. That's why it
requires such a high CPU demand.

> ...
>
> read more »

[citysoundman]

Thanks for the info about the 2TB drive limit for the Oppo. I can see
how 2TB can easily get filled! To get around the 2TB limit, can you
connect multiple 2TB drives?

And I was wondering something...a drive connected to the Oppo would
need to be disconnected from the Oppo and connected to a computer to
copy iso's to it - not very convenient. Would it be possible to use a
NAS drive, rather than a standard drive? This way file copying could
be done over the network cable while the NAS drive remains connected
to the Oppo via ESATA or USB?

Lastly, I know the attached drive needs to be NTSF format. I am using
a MacBook Pro...but the Mac shouldn't have a problem connecting to a
NTSF-formatted NAS drive...would it?

[citysoundman]

Thanks, and yes I can see how labeling the FLAC properly is important.

BTW can a FLAC be checked to see what it's original source file format
was?

[citysoundman]

Again, thanks for your input here. This is extremely helpful.

Just curious - what drive types/drive capacities are you using?

And how do you backup your data?

My thought would be to get a 4-bay NAS drive for the FLAC-drive, using
RAID 5 for backup. But backing up the Oppo drive might require a
duplicate drive?

[August Bleed]

I would assume you can connect multiple drives as I have a multiple drive bay and it is filled with more than one HDD.  I haven't tried it with the bays filled but why not?  Yes you are going to have problems if you transfer to an NTFS volume with a Mac unless you use a bootcamp thing.  For some reason the journaling system in the OS makes these shadow copies all over the place.  These are visible to the Oppo and you have to scroll thru these normally hidden files to get to the actual files that play.  Twice the work!  They cannot be deleted by normal means.  Use windows in bootcamp.  And no matter how you have your drives attached to the NAS the Oppo won't see it the same way.  You can't play iso's over the network.  Nobody likes it.  But that's as they say the way it is.  

I use a Drobo.  They are slow as molasses but they do a great job of backing up your data in their weird RAID thing.  I even had 2 drives out of 4 out at the same time and it merely asked me to put one back in and the data was intact.  Pretty kewl.  Makes up for the fact that it is SLOW.  You can still stream just about anything no prob.  I find it an elegant solution sorta a la apple.  Plug it in, just works.  This also eliminates the headaches of backing up your external drives which isn't real ez to do.

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[scolumbo]

I know there are multi-bay enclosures that will work with Oppo but
there are reports that some brands won't work. One that has been
confirmed to work is the Hotway probox 4-bay enclosure. I'm looking to
add a multi-bay enclosure soon as I'm filling up the two 2TB HDD I'm
currently using. I have to manually switch the hard drives on the Oppo
which is not the best solution.

My current setup consists of a 2TB WD network drive that contains all
my FLAC files (stereo and multichannel). I use this to stream to the
Oppo via Twonky, and I can also stream these to a PS3 in another room
using PS3 Media Server which transcodes the FLAC files.

I have two 2TB Seagate GoFlex drives that are attached to the Oppo
(but not at the same time), one of which contains all of my DVD-A and
DVD-V ISO's. The second 2TB drive contains my Blu-ray ISO's which are
mostly concert videos and a few movie Blu-rays. As I rip more movie
Blu-rays, this 2TB drive will fill up fast. That's why I need at least
a 4-bay or maybe larger enclosure.

These drives are all backups to the two 3TB drives on my pc. I use a
synch program (Synchronize It) to basically clone these drives with
the pc drives containing my digitial media. Again, not the most
elegant solution but it has been cobbled together over time.

On Aug 3, 11:39 am, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would assume you can connect multiple drives as I have a multiple drive
> bay and it is filled with more than one HDD.  I haven't tried it with the
> bays filled but why not?  Yes you are going to have problems if you transfer
> to an NTFS volume with a Mac unless you use a bootcamp thing.  For some
> reason the journaling system in the OS makes these shadow copies all over
> the place.  These are visible to the Oppo and you have to scroll thru these
> normally hidden files to get to the actual files that play.  Twice the work!
>  They cannot be deleted by normal means.  Use windows in bootcamp.  And no
> matter how you have your drives attached to the NAS the Oppo won't see it
> the same way.  You can't play iso's over the network.  Nobody likes it.  But
> that's as they say the way it is.
> I use a Drobo.  They are slow as molasses but they do a great job of backing
> up your data in their weird RAID thing.  I even had 2 drives out of 4 out at
> the same time and it merely asked me to put one back in and the data was
> intact.  Pretty kewl.  Makes up for the fact that it is SLOW.  You can still
> stream just about anything no prob.  I find it an elegant solution sorta a
> la apple.  Plug it in, just works.  This also eliminates the headaches of
> backing up your external drives which isn't real ez to do.
>

[citysoundman]

I called Oppo and asked a few of these questions regarding the BDP-93.
They said -

Hard drives need to be directly connected to the player. So it is not
possible to daisy-chain drives to a single port. Since there are two
USB ports, two USB drives can be connected, while only one eSATA port/
drive can be connected. I forgot to ask about multi-bay enclosures
though...

My other question was regarding using a NAS drive for attached
storage. I asked about connecting a NAS drive directly with either USB
or eSATA, and using the network connection for file copying. They said
it MIGHT work, but that a NAS drive is more meant as a 'hub' and so it
may not work directly connected. I wonder if anyone here has ever
tried thus? I think I will post this question on the AVS forum.

On Aug 3, 11:39 am, August Bleed <bleed...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would assume you can connect multiple drives as I have a multiple drive
> bay and it is filled with more than one HDD.  I haven't tried it with the
> bays filled but why not?  Yes you are going to have problems if you transfer
> to an NTFS volume with a Mac unless you use a bootcamp thing.  For some
> reason the journaling system in the OS makes these shadow copies all over
> the place.  These are visible to the Oppo and you have to scroll thru these
> normally hidden files to get to the actual files that play.  Twice the work!
>  They cannot be deleted by normal means.  Use windows in bootcamp.  And no
> matter how you have your drives attached to the NAS the Oppo won't see it
> the same way.  You can't play iso's over the network.  Nobody likes it.  But
> that's as they say the way it is.
> I use a Drobo.  They are slow as molasses but they do a great job of backing
> up your data in their weird RAID thing.  I even had 2 drives out of 4 out at
> the same time and it merely asked me to put one back in and the data was
> intact.  Pretty kewl.  Makes up for the fact that it is SLOW.  You can still
> stream just about anything no prob.  I find it an elegant solution sorta a
> la apple.  Plug it in, just works.  This also eliminates the headaches of
> backing up your external drives which isn't real ez to do.
>

[citysoundman]

Thank you for describing your setup - again, very helpful!

So how exactly does a multi-bay enclosure work with the Oppo? Does it
connect to a single port? Let's say you have multiple 2TB drives in
one enclosure. Will the Oppo recognize all the drives at the same
time?

[scolumbo]

I've been following the Oppo 93 thread on AVSForum from the beginning
and I don't think anyone has yet found a NAS that will work as
attached storage to the Oppo and also connect to a network for copying
files. If there is one, it would make a lot of Oppo owners very happy
because we're all looking for a solution to simplify the file copying.
If you find one that works, you should definitely post this on
AVSForum.

I tried connecting my WD network drive to the Oppo because it has a
second USB port for daisy-chaining another hard drive thinking maybe I
could accomplish this but the Oppo didn't recognize it.

With a multi-bay enclosure, it will connect to the Oppo through a
single USB or eSata connection and it's my understanding that the Oppo
will "see" the different drives in the enclosure. Again, some multi-
bay enclosures have worked and others have had problems where the Oppo
will only see one of the drives.

[citysoundman]

I'm looking into the Hotway 4-bay enclosure - there's a newer 'Raid'
version for $189
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=14115&cPath=1266#myshopping&utm_source=myshopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=HDD+Accessories&utm_term=Hotway+ProRAID+HFR2+SU2S2+USB2+0+eSATA+4+Bay+Enclosure

I'll probably start with two 2TB drives and RAID mirror them for
backup.

I just posted a question about using this, on the AVS thread, in case
you're interested...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291855&page=448