What do you think of the news of Microsofts 3MF format?

[Mick Percy]

Jut been reading the following article about Microsofts plans to develop a new file format to replace STL - http://3dprintingindustry.com/2013/09/25/microsoft-update-8-1-reveals-development-new-3d-print-output-format/

I'm not a massive Microsoft fan when it comes to their ability to follow standards. They have a very bad track record for implementing standards compliant code, (we are still paying the price for internet explorer 6 some 12 years later.) I personally think that this is not a good idea.

What are your thoughts?

[Charles Overy]

I think a really good first step for Microsoft would be NOT having .stl in the registry as Certificate Trust List.

Lets start with the basics Redmond... 

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[Markus Hitter]

Having a spooler which depends on a specific file format is a
non-starter to begin with.

There are so many different printing technologies, it's simply
impossible to cover them all with a single file format. Current
Stereolitography printers ask for STL (and hopefully AMF soon),
RepRaps (biggest market share) ask for G-code, subtractive printers
ask for a different flavour of G-code, laser cutters often ask for
DXF, projector based printers ask for PNGs or video formats ...
and so on.

Just like there are many file formats for 2D printers, too. And as we
know here, 3D is quite a bit more complex than just describing pixel
locations on paper.

That said, I've never seen AMF as something which should be pushed to a
device as-is. It's a format to describe models. What to do with these
models depends entirely on the specific application. A sane operating
system would allow the model data to be processed by a device-specific,
third party (software) driver, no matter what kind of data that is.


Markus

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Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter
http://www.reprap-diy.com/
http://www.jump-ing.de/

[Jesse McGatha]

I think a really good first step for Microsoft would be NOT having .stl in the registry as Certificate Trust List.

Lets start with the basics Redmond... 

 

Charles, you'll find if you install Windows 8.1 that a Signed Trust List is no longer associated with the .stl file extension.

 

-Jesse

 

[Jesse McGatha]

"Having a spooler which depends on a specific file format is a
non-starter to begin with.

There are so many different printing technologies, it's simply
impossible to cover them all with a single file format. Current
Stereolitography printers ask for STL (and hopefully AMF soon),
RepRaps (biggest market share) ask for G-code, subtractive printers
ask for a different flavour of G-code, laser cutters often ask for
DXF, projector based printers ask for PNGs or video formats ...
and so on. "

 

Actually, having more than 1 spool file format for 3D would be a non-starter for the exact same reason. The entire purpose of the OS support is to provide a clean way for any app to hand off content to any device, within the context of the OS. Now, as you've said, each device wants data in a specific format, so it is up to that driver to convert the spool file format into whatever that specific device needs, be it GCode, DXF, PNG files, etc. You need the apps to be able to hand off data in a well-defined format blind of a specific device, and you need to limit the number of conversions a device has to implement to just the spool file format to what their device needs.

"That said, I've never seen AMF as something which should be pushed to a
device as-is. It's a format to describe models. What to do with these
models depends entirely on the specific application."

 

I agree. As previously reported in issues to the AMF body, AMF is not suited to the needs of a pipeline process like printing, although in theory it could be, with some changes. As Markus points out, this may not even be a priority. All the print pipeline takes is a description of a model, for example. Ultimately, it was necessary to create a suitable spool file format for Windows 8.1 since there was no suitable standard (STL was viewed as unsuitable by device partners given its limitations). I don't think this is surprising, given a little thought about the problem space.

 

"A sane operating
system would allow the model data to be processed by a device-specific,
third party (software) driver, no matter what kind of data that is. "

I'm not sure whether you are saying that OS support for devices needs to support myriad devices with different PDLs (a 2D term analogous to 3D; the Windows 8.1 support does this through device drivers) or whether the print subsystem must be able to take any kind of data whatsoever (30 years of history shows this is not true for 2D and the OS requirements for 3D are not any different; plus it would be an interoperability, security, and supportability nightmare). I agree with the first interpretation and disagree with the second, obviously.

 

(For transparency, I'm on the 3D printing team at Microsoft.)

 

-Jesse

[Leonid Raiz]

Hi Jesse,

Where can I find the 3MF spec? I didn't find it on Microsoft web site.

- LR

[Jesse McGatha]

It is available via the 3D printing SDK. You can request via ask3dprint at microsoft dot com. There is an update in progress currently.