Banner based Arena walls

[Tyler Ward]

Hi

At Smallpiece while pondering arena simplification the idea of
replacing the whiteboard with signage banners with arena
markings/arena outer designs preprinted was suggested.

This would provide several advantages over the current whiteboard designs.

Speed of construction/takedown (the banners would just need
cabletieing to the scaff rather than being drilled and screwed on, in
addition the koki markers would already be on the banners so that they
wouldn't need measuring out and attaching afterwards, takedown would
be equally quick as the cable ties can be cut and the banners just
need rolling up)
Ease of transport (the banners can be rolled up making them a lot
easier to transport and move around than sheets of whiteboard)
Outer Arena Designs/colour coding (the outer arena walls can have
designs/logos added to them in addition the arena walls can be colour
coded for easy identification by teams)

some quick initial price investigations gave prices between £60 and
£100 per banner (one banner per arena side), giving a cost of between
£960 and £1600 for two arenas (with both inside and outside walls)
although we might be able to get discounts for having a large order

As a very rough comparison hardboard is about £8 per sqm so would cost
around £512 for 2 arenas worth.

Tyler

[Sophia Maria]

#2548

Tyler

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[Andrew Cottrell]

How well will this handle impact from a robot?

--

Andrew Cottrell

http://ultimationee.blogspot.com

[Thomas Scarsbrook]

Hi,

In principal, I really like this idea! It solves many issues.

However, I think it's rather likely that a robot could run into one and damage it. Under those circumstances, hardboard costs very little to replace, whereas a new banner would be rather expensive.

Scarzy

Tyler

[Sophia Maria]

Hi,

However, I think it's rather likely that a robot could run into one and damage it.

really?

The robot has to pass the safety test. Linesmen are around to switch robots off.

The only 'damage' I would expect is removing black colour from the libkoki markers.

We should test how well the colour sticks (can a robot scratch it off?)

Small scratches can probably still be fixed with a high quality marker pen, but if they are too easily generated banners are not worth it.

Thinking about libkoki, reflectivity could be an issue, too.

Tyler, do you happen to have some print samples?

Cheers
lilafisch

[Jeremy Morse]

Hi,

I enjoy the idea.

On the whole, I think low-tech low-dependency solutions are superior in
the field. Damage to a banner (I'm assuming it's vinyl or canvas or
something) that causes it to lose tension means the arena is unsafe and
can't be fixed without there being a spare, identical banner. Anything
constructed from raw materials is eminently swappable.

Would the eyelets in the banner be rated for a slightly oversized
teenager putting their weight on the centre of the banner? (To date we
haven't managed to fully enforce getting people to not enter through the
arena walls, AFAIK).

--
Thanks,
Jeremy

[Andrew Cottrell]

I do like the idea too - the banner is just going to have to be pretty tough but that's very plausible.

I can also imagine sponsors loving the possibility of sticking some of their logos there, and thus in any videos/photos of the arena. Much like a football stadium around the edges. 

[Rob Spanton]

Hey,

On Thu, 2014-08-21 at 14:48 +0100, Tyler Ward wrote:
> At Smallpiece while pondering arena simplification the idea of
> replacing the whiteboard with signage banners with arena
> markings/arena outer designs preprinted was suggested.

My general aim for this year's competition is to make an arena that is
more compatible with large numbers of people watching a match. This
means that people will need to be moved back from the arena, and that
the walls will need to be much lower (see [1]).

Another aspect of the situation is that moving towards a more standard
approach from the events industry will make things easier.

As an example, the wall could be constructed using some simple carpentry
(e.g. in a similar manner to the slot walls from sr2014), and
wood-backed arena markers can simply slot into the top of this.

Cheers,

Rob

[1] https://www.studentrobotics.org/gerrit/#/c/1649/

[Olly Smith]

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:52:40 PM UTC+1, Rob Spanton wrote:

Hey,

On Thu, 2014-08-21 at 14:48 +0100, Tyler Ward wrote:
> At Smallpiece while pondering arena simplification the idea of
> replacing the whiteboard with signage banners with arena
> markings/arena outer designs preprinted was suggested.

> quick shoutout that this was my idea, I thought of it on the train home from the competition, mentioned it to Tyler & Alistair at Smallpeice. Alistair mentioned already prototyping his woodboard design, Tyler suggested the word banner over tarpaulin. Anyway

My general aim for this year's competition is to make an arena that is
more compatible with large numbers of people watching a match.  This
means that people will need to be moved back from the arena, and that
the walls will need to be much lower (see [1]).

If this was an SC decision then that's cool, as it's steering_the_competition. Was it mentioned in SCminutes or SRWAN or anything? This is first i've heard of it.

Regardless, the above statement doesn't mean to say that banner walls wouldn't be a smart space_saving_&_reusable option. My thinking was the banner would have some of those metal ring holes in it, which would then be cable tied to the arena. Assuming Rob wants a smaller wall height, the wall markers could be printed onto card, and stuck onto the wall banner using double sided tape, provided the banner has been properly secured to the scaffolding, they'll be fine.

Another aspect of the situation is that moving towards a more standard
approach from the events industry will make things easier.

Can you go into more detail on this? It sounds good, but very vague, and considering the ambition is likely worth a separate discussion of how you plan to implement the ideas you have for event industry standard homologation.

As an example, the wall could be constructed using some simple carpentry
(e.g. in a similar manner to the slot walls from sr2014), and
wood-backed arena markers can simply slot into the top of this.

Plywood/wood variants have always resulted in a lot of dusty mess, time spent in construction, and have always been thrown away afterwards. To reiterate, the wall markers could be printed onto card, and stuck onto the wall banner using double sided tape, provided the banner has been properly secured to the scaffolding, they'll be fine.

[Rob Spanton]

Hey Olly,

Olly wrote:
> Assuming Rob wants a smaller wall height,

No need to assume, it's exactly what I said ;)

> the wall markers could be printed onto card, and stuck onto the wall
> banner using double sided tape, provided the banner has been properly
> secured to the scaffolding, they'll be fine.

Once the wall has gone, there is also little need for the scaff. The
scaff is generally ugly, inconvenient from a delivery and installation
perspective, and also gets in the way of the view of the arena.

I wrote:
> Another aspect of the situation is that moving towards a more standard
> approach from the events industry will make things easier.

Olly wrote:
> Can you go into more detail on this? It sounds good, but very vague, and
> considering the ambition is likely worth a separate discussion of how you
> plan to implement the ideas you have for event industry standard
> homologation.

Yes, much of the point of this at this moment is to keep it vague: we
are currently working towards shipping for SR2015, and can delay
thinking about the arena construction until later!

Cheers,

Rob

[Olly Smith]

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 11:31:02 PM UTC+1, Rob Spanton wrote:

< explains the desire to fully redesign the arena, in light of a new, spectator oriented purpose >

That all makes sense, again, i wish i'd have found out about this from SC minutes or SRAWN, not off the cuff. 

Olly wrote:
> Can you go into more detail on this? It sounds good, but very vague, and
> considering the ambition is likely worth a separate discussion of how you
> plan to implement the ideas you have for event industry standard
> homologation.

Yes, much of the point of this at this moment is to keep it vague: we
are currently working towards shipping for SR2015, and can delay
thinking about the arena construction until later!

That's understandable, as long as we're not leaving blueshirts_in_the_dark about big descisions 

[Sophia Maria]

Since it is currently unclear how the arena is going to be built, we should keep the idea of printed panels in the back of our minds.

At least I am not at all convinced of the plans as rob laid them out just now.

I do agree with rob, that right now Kickstart is a more important focus point.

That all makes sense, again, i wish i'd have found out about this from SC minutes or SRAWN, not off the cuff. 

This was in no SC meeting. The gerrit patch is the first I heard about this plan.

I agree that, just like Tyler shared the idea of printed panels it would be nice to hear about other ideas/plans earlier.

cheers
lilafisch

[Olly Smith]

On Friday, August 22, 2014 10:20:23 PM UTC+1, lilafisch wrote:

Since it is currently unclear how the arena is going to be built, we should keep the idea of printed panels in the back of our minds.

At least I am not at all convinced of the plans as rob laid them out just now.

I do agree with rob, that right now Kickstart is a more important focus point.

That all makes sense, again, i wish i'd have found out about this from SC minutes or SRAWN, not off the cuff. 

This was in no SC meeting. The gerrit patch is the first I heard about this plan.

Yeah, it's a prudent move, and the SC doing it's job of steering, but should be treated as such. Otherwise it's Rob having an idea and making it so. (No offense, it's a good idea) 

I agree that, just like Tyler shared the idea of printed panels it would be nice to hear about other ideas/plans earlier.

I mentioned it first at Smallpeice, just as a "hey what do you think of this" idea. 
 

[Sophia Maria]

I agree that, just like Tyler shared the idea of printed panels it would be nice to hear about other ideas/plans earlier.

I mentioned it first at Smallpeice, just as a "hey what do you think of this" idea. 
 

I don't care who get's the 'first' badge. Tyler brought it to the list for everyone to read.

[Olly Smith]

Whatever. I mentioned it at Smallpeice in passing to various Blueshirts, I figured i'd have mentioned it to you as well. I didn't bring it to the list now because i figured like Rob that the arena design is less important than Kickstart at the moment.