Would love someone to test my quizzes.

[Steven M Nelson]

The first one I wrote a while back, but no one's played it, and I'm wondering if there's a reason.

http://www.sporcle.com/games/Groujo/american-bird-types

The second one I just published.  What do you think?

http://www.sporcle.com/games/Groujo/american-cities-named-after-saints

I'd like to be able to put comments after some hidden answers.  Is there a way to do that?

--Steven

[Chenchilla]

I've got a few comments,

In general: Your quizzes will look better and more professional with color (you can change color in the style sections) Also, with the quiz title, ("Can you name the...") the standard procedures is not to capitalize every word except proper nouns, but there's no problem with the way it is now

Bird Quiz: Right now, if you guess a common bird, you'll likely get a right answer. If I were you, I'd remove a large number of questions (leaving around 10-30) and check the box that says 'force answers in order' to add challenge

Saint City Quiz: Since Puerto Rico is part of the US, you should add San Juan at a pop. of 389,714

[razorz]

Hi Steven,
Welcome to Sporcle. Here's some feedback on the U.S. Cities quiz you made:
1) Use the color function to your advantage. Nobody likes gray and white quizzes.
2) No need to use capital letters in some of the words in your game question. It should read "Can you name the most populous American cities named after saints?" As an ancillary note, I wouldn't say "named after saints" because I think there may be some cities named for saints that don't have the "saint" heading (though I'm not certain of this).
3) Quizzes similar to this - especially on the world scale - have been done before, so make sure to use your search function. This is different enough from all the others out there, that I think it's fine.

[razorz]

And as a response to Chenchilla, San Juan should be a bonus answer (use "ee" in the extra column to make a bonus answer), not a regular answer - unless you want to drive people crazy.

[iglew]

In addition to the other things mentioned, you have misspelled "Bernardino".  Also, you have Saint Louis and Santa Ana swapped in population order.

Los Angeles is arguably named after the Virgin Mary, who was a saint.  I think that warrants a bonus answer.  I can't think of any other U.S. cities above the population thresholds named for saints.  (Louisville was named for King Louis XVI, and Virginia (for Virginia Beach) was named after Queen Elizabeth I.)

[iglew]

I think the bird quiz has a lot of promise, but also needs a lot of work.  On first glance it looks very daunting.  Part of that is that it's just so big.  I would look for ways to make it look less sprawling on the screen. For starters, the answer column should be as narrow as possible to still fit the answers, in order to leave more room for the clue column so that not as many of them break to multiple lines.  Also, though I generally don't like going down to 7pt text, I think it may be warranted for this quiz, so I would at least try that and see how much it improves the fit.  I would also experiment with either two-columns or four-columns to see if either of those improve the fit.  Often it's hard to guess what number of columns works best so you just have to try them all and see.

As for content, if it's possible to trim a couple of the clues that would help a little, but I'm not sure you'll get much out of it.  It would also be good if you could just have fewer answers.  I don't completely understand your methodology for determining what makes the list and what doesn't (for example, I was surprised cardinal wasn't there), but if there's a way to trim the list and still have a logical standard for what is in and what is out, I would encourage that.  The likeliest candidates, it seems to me, are the compound word answers that show up with another answer anyway.  For example, "owl" yields not just owl, but also screech-owl and pygmy-owl.  Could those be omitted and just grouped along with owl?  And likewise for whistling-duck, sage-grouse, ground-dove, etc.  (On the other hand, meadowlark did not come up with "lark".)

Whatever you do, it would be nice if the game note made it more clear what all counts for the list.  It looks like you're only doing birds in the United States, as opposed to the entire American continent(s), but that's not stated anywhere.

In an earlier comment Chenchilla suggests cutting the list to 10-30 and making it forced order.  You could do that, and it would be a fine quiz, too, but it would be a completely different quiz.  I prefer the way it is now, with a relatively long list that is not forced order.  It's true that you can just start typing in every type of bird you can think of and most of them will go, but that's exactly the point.  I enjoyed trying to think of lots of bird types.  When I gave up I had 64, but after I saw the answers there were about 20 that made me say "oh, I should have thought of that!" and about 15 more that I had heard of.  To me, that's a sign of a good quiz, because it means it's not obscure information I just don't know, it was general knowledge that was a challenge to think up and if I had thought harder I might have scored better. I like that.

Something else I would suggest, especially if the total list remains long, is that you make it so that the answers are alphabetical.  As far as I can tell, they're in no particular order now.  Adding alphabetization is a great feature for a long quiz with lots of answers because it keeps the game interesting for longer.  Most players will easily come up with 20 or 30 answers.  Once those answesr appear on the screen they provide additional clues for deducing the remaining ones. If I see a clue and know that it comes somewhere in the alphabet between "eagle" and "goose", then maybe I have a better chance of coming up with egret or eider.

[razorz]

One more thing I just noticed: I think you made your game private. You'll need to reach out to Sporcle (using the Feedback button at the bottom of the home page) to request they change it to a public quiz.

[Quizmaster91]

@iglew: after playing the birds quiz, I started thinking that the order might be by taxonomy (class, family, etc.) instead of by alphabet. See how similar birds (different owls, ducks geese and swans, ravens and crows, etc.) are all adjacent. If this is the case, and I'm no ornithologist so I could be wrong, I like it better this way since you have to think "what bird is like a loon and a grebe?" instead of "what word fits between raven and robin alphabetically?

[Chenchilla]

Another tiny detail, Steven

This isn't really about the quiz, but here at Sporcle, using the word "publish" intends that the quiz has been featured on the main page.

A better word to describe creating a quiz would be "contributed"

Just a bit of Sporcle lingo ;)

[Droxnar]

Hello, there! All of the above advice it good! Here's my 2¢ to add:

As a personal preference, I agree with iglew about the alphabetization. While putting the birds in taxonomical groups is more challenging, an alphabetical list makes an above average score more attainable to the average quiz-taker. However, if the challenge is what you wanted in your quiz, you should mention how they are grouped.

For the cities quiz, if you were wanting the 3rd column (the location) to be an additional clue, make sure "Hide 3rd Column until answered" is unchecked on the Options tab. If you didn't intend for it to be a clue, perhaps you could include it in the answer column i.e. "San Antonio, TX" which would look like "San Antonio, TX/San Antonio" on your Data tab.

Also, "released" is good to use for a contributed quiz. ;)

[Steven M Nelson]

Thanks for catching those errors, iglew.  Misspelling Bernardino is especially embarrassing.  I wonder how long I've been doing that?

I actually do have Los Angeles listed as a bonus answer.  Did it not come up?  

[Steven M Nelson]

razorz-

    Excellent suggestion.  I actually toyed with the idea of making the quiz about all of the North America, but decided there was enough just in the U.S.  Half of me agrees with Chenchilla, but I think making it a hidden answer would be more kind.

[Steven M Nelson]

@Chenchilla -

  

Thanks for the advice.  I'll definitely look into adding color.  I fixed the capitalization issue, too.  

Chenchilla-

Thanks for pointing out that San Juan should be an answer.  I think it's best to make it a bonus answer, though, as iglew suggests.

I'm not sure what you're saying about the bird quiz.  Nothing bothers me at all about guessing common birds.  That's sort of the point.  The question: can you get them all?  The quiz comes out of my wish to have a way to learn all the types of birds in the U.S., just like the periodic table quiz and the countries of the world quiz.  But there were too many to go species by species.  

[Steven M Nelson]

@razorz-

    I made it private?  I had no idea.  Which quiz did you mean, and how can I tell whether a quiz is public or private?

[Steven M Nelson]

@Quizmaster91 (and iglew)

Yes.  The order is taxonomic.  It's exactly the order they're in in Sibley's, and is one most birders would recognize.  Thanks for looking at it.

[Steven M Nelson]

@Chenchilla-

   I appreciate the instruction.  Obviously, I'm a noob.   "Contributed" it is then.  

[Quizmaster91]

The one with the Cities is made private. You can tell by looking at your contributed games in your game dashboard (the orange 'create' button between play and quiz lab will lead you to it). Private games are marked with †. This means only you and people you send the link to (like us here) can play your game but no other people on Sporcle. This might be the reason nobody has played it yet. When you make your quiz, you have the option 'Launch game to the public' and 'Make game private'. If you want everybody to be able to play your game you should always pick launch to public. Once made private, only an admin or moderator can make it public again.

[Steven M Nelson]

@Draxnar-

   Perhaps an alphabetical one without hints?  That might clean up the size and make it look less imposing, too.

   Can you give me a little help with your second suggestion? For San Antonio, "Texas" should appear in the 3rd column when you get that answer.  Is that not what happens?   I intended that the third column will appear after the answer is given, but I can't figure out how to do that with the bonus answers because I already have a "ee" there.  

[Steven M Nelson]

@iglew-

 

    Thanks VERY much for all the great advice here.

    I agree it looks pretty daunting and sprawling.  A lot of that is due to the hints, which take up a lot of room.  I had not known I could fiddle with column width -- that makes it much better.  Take another look! (I also changed font)

    I will improve the game note.  When I wrote it, I was constrained to 250 words, so it was impossible to get all the useful info in.  But I see they allow 500 words now.  

    On my methodology:  I really did give this some thought. Though I agree it is imperfect, it is at least systematic.  Here's how I did it: I combed through Sibley's guide and looked for the last word in a bird's name.  If two or more species used this word, I considered it a "type" rather than just a bird's name.  Since there is only 1 cardinal in North America, (the Northern Cardinal) it didn't make the cut. I think I'll add some of those singleton birds as bonus answers, though. (*I have just added all 93 singletons as bonus answers*)  They include Greater Roadrunner and Whip-poor-will.  Some of these "last words" are hyphenated.  "Sky-lark" is one hyphenated word in Sibley's, so I included it separately from "Lark".  But I decided to be kind to quiztakers who did not know there was a hyphen and let the word "lark" uncover both answers.  "Meadowlark" on the other hand isn't hyphenated, so it's its own word.  

    You ask whether "Pygmy-Owl" and "Screech-Owl could be omitted.  I suppose they could, actually.  But how would I explain it?  A hyphenated word is a word after all.  

     Do you still think alphabetical would be better, given that I've made it clear they are in the standard taxonomic order?  

    Finally, I still wish I could provide hidden information for bonus answers that appear when they guess it.  Any way to do this?

    Anyway, I've made the changes I talked about.  Please take another look!

[Steven M Nelson]

Thanks Quizmaster91.  I noticed the cross but had no idea what it meant.  Let's see if I can fix it.

[DesertSpartan]

Steven,

If you post your link to this thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sporcle-university/kPdE8bQc7os someone should make the quiz public for you.

[iglew]

City quiz:  Now that you mention it, no, I didn't try Los Angeles.  It wasn't until I read razorz's comment that I started trying to think of U.S. cities named for saints that didn't include Saint or San in the name.

You may want to make your bonus answer longer and more explanatory.  Something like, "Los Angeles' full name, 'El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula,' refers to St Mary."

The bird quiz looks much better now.  Excellent work. The only problem I see now is that there's one blank line at the end.  You may have an empty line in your data.

I still think I would enjoy alphabetical more, but that's just a personal preference.  The taxonomic/book order is also fine.

[Steven M Nelson]

Thanks!  I just posted on a similar thread.

[Droxnar]

Unfortunately, there is no way to add additional info in a third column for bonus answers. The way I see it mostly handled is with parenthesis in the answer.

i.e. San Juan (Puerto Rico)

[Steven M Nelson]

@iglew:  

Geez, is that really the full name of Los Angeles?  I'll put it in there.  

And you convinced me about putting the birds in alphabetical order.  Give it a try now!

Steven

[Steven M Nelson]

@Droxnar -

    Yes, that's what I came up with too.

[iglew]

I just copied that from Wikipedia.  I think that was the original name.  I don't know whether it's still the official name. I would guess probably not, but I didn't actually research it.

[zaphenath]

Re: bird quiz -- a few observations:

1.  Alphabetization is not all correct (e.g. you have skua following sparrow)

2.  Not sure why you chose the family divisions that you did.  You spilt warblers into warblers, waterthrushes, parulae, and yellowthroats -- but in that case why not redstarts too (Painted and American)?  Should night herons be separate from other herons?  Should brants be separate from other geese?  Should storm petrels (hydrobatidae) be listed separately from petrels of family proccellariidae?

3.  I don't think meadowlark should appear when 'lark' is entered.  Meadowlarks are icterids (related to blackbirds, grackles, cowbirds, etc.) while larks are in the family alaudidae.  In the same vein, nighthawk (caprimulgidae) should not appear when hawk (accipitridae) is entered.

4.  Prairie chickens are grouse, not chickens.  Probably should not be alphabetized under C.

5.  Not sure why you selected some species examples over others.  For example, Arctic and Dusky warblers are Asian species that stray into Alaska -- much less common than more well-known species in the lower 48 (Blackburnian, Cerulean, Prothonotary, Kentucky, etc.).

Hope that helps!

[Steven M Nelson]

@zaphenath-   thanks for doing my quiz.  And thanks for pointing out the alphabetization problem with skua.  Did you see any others?

   The way I chose to approach the quiz was non-taxonomic.  So you're not really looking at family divisions here.  Rather I wanted a quiz that tested knowledge of the names of the birds: essentially, How many birds do you know?  I completely understand that common names (particularly for warblers and sparrows) apply to different taxonomic groups.  I can imagine a quiz that asks you to name all the families, but I think that would have less appeal.  Please take a look at my description of what a "type" is.  The whole thing is really based on language, not scientific category.  I am simply compiling them by the last words in their common names.

So, you're absolutely right that redstarts should be there (and I've fixed this now).  I don't know how I missed them.

My original version of this quiz did include night-herons, as well as screech-owls, storm-petrels, and rosy-finches, among others as separate answers.  However, I was advised to do what I could to shorten the quiz, and I made the decision to not require these as separate entries.  Instead, they are combined with herons, owls, petrels and finches, respectively (as I stated in the instructions).  If you type a hyphenated name, (e.g., night-heron), you will reveal both the larger category ("heron") and a bonus answer for "night-heron".  The only hyphenated bird type that could not be merged successfully with another type was "prairie-chicken" because there were no other "chickens" in the list.  I know it's scientifically a grouse, but, again, this is really a linguistic quiz.  They are under C because I explicitly told quiztakers that I was considering all hyphens as spaces.  So a prairie-chicken became a prairie chicken (and thus had to be listed under "chicken".  If I listed it under p then I'd have to put all the hyphenated types back in.  

I'll agree with you about meadowlarks and nighthawks (also goldfinches and waterthrushes).  But it's no crime helping users out -- and I think the quiz is pretty hard.

My selection of the species examples were systematic: they were the first 3 in Sibley's for each type, irrespective of their commonness.  I honestly thought of these clues more as justifications for the category name (see!  there are several of these!) rather than real clues.  Maybe I should change that.  I'll think about it.  

Thanks.

Steven

[iglew]

I like the clues.  It's true that for most of the quiz I was just trying to think of as many bird names as I could, but the clues were nice as an occasional helpful hint.

It might be a slight improvement if you were to change the names listed in the clues, using your judgment to guess the three most familiar or most distinctive ones, but I definitely wouldn't delete the clues altogether.