3D printer centering problem using Slic3r via Repetier-Host

[freem...@gmail.com]

I have just documented the source of a problem that may very well be identical to the problem a couple of us have observed when trying to print an object that had been sliced with Slic3r.

1)  I created two identical Slic3r configuration (.ini) files, one with the print center at (0,0), the other with the print center at (75,75),

2) I sliced a small object using each of these and saved the Gcodes under recognizable names.

Using the Solidoodle "Pronterface" software, I opened the one created with the print center at (0,0), and found that the object was centered on the bed.  Doing the same with the one created with the print center at (75,75), I found that the object was centered at the right rear corner -- off the bed.

3) Next I tried similar tests using the Repetier Host to call Slic3r, sliced the object using each configuration, and again saved  the Gcodes under recognizable names.

Using the Solidoodle "pronterface" software, I opened the one created with the print center at (0,0), and found that the object was centered at the right rear corner -- off the bed!  Doing the same with the one created with the print center at (75,75), I found that the object again was centered at the right rear corner -- off the bed - NO DIFFERENCE!

4) In the process of all this, I noticed that the Repetier Host software has an "Object Placement" tab with X, Y, and Z translations that default to approximately (75, 75, 0) when you load an object. 

I therefore changed these values to (0, 0, 0) and was rewarded with the object moving to the front left corner - ON THE REPETIER HOST SCREEN. 

I then sliced this displaced test object using Slic3r, with the (0,0) configuration and saved the result under a recognizable name.. 

When I loaded this using the pronterface software,  I found that the object again was STILL centered at the right rear corner -- off the bed - NO DIFFERENCE!


I conclude that for reasons yet undetermined, the Repetier Host software is the problem here, but that slicing with a freestanding version of Slic3r should work fine. 

[Support Tech]

How widespread is this issue?

Let me know if there is anything else we can do.

Regards,
John

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[Ian Johnson]

Repetier ignores the center coordinate setting in Slic3r and handles the positioning itself.  In RH 0,0 is the front left, and 75,75 is the center.  If you load an STL with the object at 0,0, RH will automatically center it, translating it to 75,75.  If you set the translation back to 0,0 that will place the object at the front left.  The start gcode homes the printer, and the printer knows that when it homes it is at 159,150 which means during a print 0,0 will be the left front.

Pronterface is set up to display 0,0 at the center.  If you open the same gcode in RH and Pronterface with a part at 0,0, RH will show it at the front left, and Pronterface will show it in the center.  However when you print, the homing action will define the coordinates such that it will print a 0,0 object at the front left. 

If you slice a STL in standalone Slic3r, the bed center coordinate setting will be used.  If your part is positioned at 0,0 and you have bed center set at 0,0 it will print at the front left because the start gcode setup 0,0 at that position even though the display in Pronterface will show it in the center.

This all assumes that you are using the same start gcode every time with the G28 (home all) command.

[jon bondy]

You seem to have come up with a way to create a problem with Slic3r and Repetier Host, but I have NEVER had ANY problems with positioning with RH and Slic3r if I just use the integrated RH environment, slice in there, and print.  So, while you problem may be important in a theoretical way, in my experience, I've never run into it during normal operations.

[Bruce .]

That's all very well for you, but we HAVE run into this problem at our
makerspace. It is scarcely a "theoretical" problem.

Two of us, now, have sliced objects on external computers, then loaded
them up in Pronterface on the computer in the makerspace that controls
the Solidoodle, only to find the objects hanging off the edge of the
bed -- on the screen and when real printing was attempted. The
solutions we've come up with so far have been ad hoc and really made
little sense, prompting my investigation.

If we slice the object on the computer that controls the Solidoodle,
we dominate that computer. This is no big deal if you know exactly
what your slicing parameters should be -- so only have to do it once.
But when you need to experiment with parameters before slicing, it
would unfairly dominate that computer.

Unfortunately, I lack full documentation of our experiences, so I
don't know for sure whether our off-center prints came from objects
centered at (0,0) or centered at (75,75). I don't have access right
now to the Solidoodle, and I will not be able to investigate the
veracity of Ian Johnson's assertions until I can again get to that
printer. If he is right, we have a solution. If he is wrong, we'll
likely also have a solution.

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:52 AM, jon bondy <j...@jonbondy.com> wrote:
> You seem to have come up with a way to create a problem with Slic3r and
> Repetier Host, but I have NEVER had ANY problems with positioning with RH
> and Slic3r if I just use the integrated RH environment, slice in there, and
> print. So, while you problem may be important in a theoretical way, in my

--
Bruce
NJ

[Kendall]

Ian description was/is correct, you can bank on that when you create your specific personal solution...

I am like you, I want to know all the facts before making a decision and will test my decision out before committing; and I do not submit like a wiped puppy to criticism.  In business you have to stay (1) step ahead of your mouth :-), or you will find yourself (1) step behind :-(...

[Ian Johnson]

Also double check that all computers are using the same start gcode.  The start code is what sets up the coordinates for the print, and Pronterface/RH take that into account when previewing the gcode.  For instance, Solidoodle used to home the printer by running it 200mm toward the endstops.  As a result RH would show the print happening way off the bed because it didn't know that a endstop would be hit before it finished the 200mm move.

In Pronterface if you go to Options and change Build Dimensions to just "150x150x150" (without the other numbers) it will display the gcodes in the same position as RH.

[jon bondy]

I said that I use Slic3r from within RH.  I was trying to point out that you could make your life easier if you did as I do.  If you want to slice in one place and transmit in another, that's fine, but if you use RH from start to finish, you can reduce your headache.

[Andy c]

Hello all

I am a newbie with a S3 and I am struggling to get my prints centered. 

I am using RH.84 with slicr and the .3mm profile.

If I understand correctly slicr is the main driver of where the the part will be placed which is fine

but it wants to start printing about 10 mm off the table. It does not matter which setting I change or

which file I use they all want to start off the table.

Any Ideas as to why?

Thanks

Andy

[Bruce .]

Sounds familiar, but I'm not actually using RH to control our S2, but
rather Pronterface. (I also tend to use Skeinforge, not Slic3r, but
would gladly move to Slic3r if I could get the problems under control.
So far, I just haven't had enough time on the S2 to work these out.)

Somebody else may have a better answer, but in my limited experience,
I'd suggest you (1) open RH, (2) load your STL or Gcode, and (3) check
the "translation" coordinates under the object placement tab. For the
S2 (150 mm stage), these should be x=~75, y=~75, z=~0. They need not
be exactly these. This is to say, the object should be in the middle
of your bed -- whatever your bed size may be. Check that and post
again with what you find.

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--
Bruce
NJ

[Crzycrzy]

Using a SD3 here, in RH .82b, after running Slic3r, under Object Placement tab, I just change the Translation boxes to center.. little trial and error to get the right numbers to get it "centered"  Watch the colour of the model in the 3D View change when it is within the bed limits.

Does that help ?

[Andy c]

Thanks for the advice but no matter what I change the object placement numbers to it always prints

in the same place. My bed size is 200 by 200 so center should be 100, 100. I have tried from 0,0 to 200, 200 but

the model will always print in the same location. 

[Crzycrzy]

Does the model move in the viewer ?

200 - width of model /'2 ... but it doesn't really seem to work that way   Recent one I had to use -60 to centerish it.

[Bruce .]

Try opening Slic3r independent of RH, slice the object, then pick it
up with RH or whatever you're using to control your S3.

I don't know that this will fix your problem, but I expect the results
might be different from what you're getting now.

We've had fairly good luck using Pronterface and Skeinforge.

[Kendall]

Ok, since we have not had feedback back from freem...@gmail.com, maybe he/she has the problem under control; (but if not, from "Repetier", show us some screen shots; or freem..., if you fixed the problem, please let us know your status; or anyone else with this same problem, please [Post] screen shots and [state the specific goal] your trying to achieve):

--- And ---

_______________________________________________________________________

[Andy c]

Hi Kendall

I am still having issues...yes.

Have I changed both location you show to 200, 200 and 100, 100.

I am not at my machine currently so I can not get a screen shot, I will work on that this evening.

One question I do have is can a update to the firmware cause this kind of issue? I calibrated my feed rate

and updated the firmware, just wondering if that could be a cause.

Andy

[Kendall]

Your the one who want to slice with slic3r and print with Ponterface...

Item #1
Show us screen shots of your Slic3r (stand alone version) settings for the (2) TABs (as per the last [Post]), and a screen shot of your Start G-Code file in Ponterface...

Item #2
Q-1; Does your Ponterface print files created with Skeinforge correctly?
Q-2; Does your Repetier [Manual Control] visually show and print files correctly that were sliced with the Slic3r within Repetier? 

RE: Ian explained in a previous [Post] about the X0-Y0 location differences of printer control software packages; Ponterface vs. Repetier...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kendall]

Opps, your not the person who wanted to slic3r and print from Ponterface, your the one who has a new S3; we still will need your screen shots as shown in my last post...

[Andy c]

I thought this had posted last night....

Just to reduce some back and forth I made a video of the problem and showed my printer settings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sGlylpBiU

I have changed the printer settings and rh settings to try to get the module to move to the left but

every time the skirt prints off the table on the left and then the module will print from the edge or also print out in space on

the left.

Also I read through this post 

http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1598

I realize that it is a different printer but it describes my problems exactly.

So somewhere in the firmware you set the default size of the print area?

This could be a source of the problem because this all started after I updated the firmware after

my first print to adjust the feed rate of the extruder.

Thanks for your help.

[Support Tech]

You shouldn't need to adjust the firmware to adjust the feed rate of the extruder.

--

[andy corp]

that is not what you said in your wiki

http://wiki.solidoodle.com/solidoodle-1

I realize that is for s2 but did not I find a guide for S3?

What to do know? I have s2 firmware on my s3 and do not know how to fix it?

Andy

[Andy c]

Sorry it is not your wiki it is solidoodle's.

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[Support Tech]

Andy: As I said in our personal correspondence, we should be able to fix you up with the official S3 firmware tomorrow or Monday at the latest.

Regards,
John

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[Andy c]

Thanks John

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[Kendall]

Andy, post your results here, after your up and running...  Enjoy the day...

[Support Tech]

Guys,
Just as a heads up to everyone regarding firmware at the moment, please do remember that the S3 firmware is just a little different than the S2 firmware. We haven't released the S3 firmware to the public yet, and at this time it is possible for people to make the mistake of uploading S2 firmware onto the S3. Please be aware of this particular complication should you be giving advice on the forums. The issues associated with the mistake are still be tracked down, but can relate to mysterious functionality deficiencies.

Regards,
John

[Kendall]

Andy, a couple things I did notice that might in the future cause you a problem; 1. your running it from a laptop, most people report that they don't have a problems with the laptops b/c of the power saving features, but some people are (just a beware)...  2. the graphics screen that is graphically is showing the movements and filament being put down does have problems, it will slow the your machines movements, this is a known problem with Repetier, most people just tab click the [Temperature Curve] screen (or) Icon click [Hide Filament] and [Hide Travel]...

[Andy c]

Thanks for the tip kendall :)

I do not think this is related to the problem I have been talking about but now my hotend has stopped working, it will not heat up.

Reading up on what to check

All the images I have seen the extruder assembly look to be the same between the s2 and s3. Is there anything different between these 2

machines that I should be aware of when checking for my hotend not working?

Andy

[Support Tech]

Andy,
No, a hot-end failure is usually related to hardware malfunctions.

--

[Kendall]

this is a new subject, you should start a new thread, we have to be careful not to thread-jack someone's topic...

[Support Tech]

Kendal,
It is sort of off topic, but it's Andy's thread after all.

--

[Andy c]

I will not have a ohm checker until this evening but here is a screen shot

of the temperature curve from Rh. Does this tell me anything about where to start

trouble shooting?

Andy

[Andy c]

actually I am the one doing the thread jacking as this is freem originally thread.

Sorry Freem did not intended to take this over.

Andy

[Ian Johnson]

The problem with the firmware is that it defines the coordinates of the endstops as x159 and y150.  Whenever the printer is homed, it will use those as the current coordinates.  Those coordinates are different for the S3.  

[Kendall]

#1 It's spelled "Kendall"...
#2 and why are you trying to attack me for trying to help?
#3 Look back at who started this thread, what the title was...
#4 then explain to me what I said that was so wrong (and Yes, I caught the earlier comment also)!
#5 look back on any of the conversation from Solidoodle on this forum and show me where the help is.  All I see are questions back to the question asking person, then (maybe) y'all take it off line and we don't find out how it ends.
#6 and this is why I ask people to give a review on how things worked out for them (it's called share the wealth)...

And yes, guess I'm a little sensitive today, but you, try to have a nice day anyway...
___________________________________________________

[Support Tech]

Sorry Kendall.
#1 Kindest apologies
#2 No attack, just mistakenly thought this was Andy's thread.
#3 Oops
#4 ? Seems thing are going rather politely
#5 Andy has been speaking directly with us on-line with us from the start. I think his intention was to report his finding from talking to us directly.
#6 That is never a bad idea.

[sh...@sauropod.org]

I'm the proud new owner of an SD3, using RH on Linux. As apparently mono's serial port implementation is a little broken, I had to change the speed of the serial port, both in RH and on the firmware, which resulted in me uploading Marlin for S2 so I could print. I had this same problem, but tonight discovered that you could change the following define values in Configuration.h to make it more sensible.

//#define X_HOME_POS 159
//#define Y_HOME_POS 150

#define X_HOME_POS 205
#define Y_HOME_POS 205

I'm not a lawyer, but isn't there also some issue with distributing binaries of GPLed software (Marlin) without also making the source available? (Assuming Marlin is the firmware distributed with S3)

-Sharp

[Andy c]

Thanks Sharp :)

That fixed my print area problem.

Somewhere along the line Solidoodle should note on their site what applies to S2 only so this does not

happen again.

Now my extruder will not heat up.

I have the following values in the image that leads me to think I need to take off the

tape and see the values?

The only reason I ask is I do not have any tape yet.

Andy

[Kendall]

Ian & Sharp, are these the only change you see?  If that is all there was too it, then this problem should of been resolved; if not, hopefully [Support] will post here with any other corrections that should be made, I'm sure they record the changes they make & maybe this will also inspire them to update there install instructions to avoid further confusion...

[Support Tech]

I can't say weather or not there are further changes - TJ usually works on the firmware mods. We will be making the firmware available. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the only change, but there may very well be others.

[Kendall]

Thanks for the update...

[sh...@sauropod.org]

That's the only change I made, besides setting BAUDRATE to 115200 so that it would work with RH on buggy mono on Linux. I've also changed the startup gcode to make it respect the temperatures I've set in the slic3r config, and also redefined the position that the print head rests on while the extruder is heating up, but these are more for my convenience than the functionality of the machine. I've made a small handful of prints so far, and some bigger prints now that centering is no longer an issue. My values might be off by a few mm, but nothing that affects printing unless you are really trying to print across the ENTIRE surface. I guess we'll wait for Solidoodle support to see what they should really be.

Sharp

[Support Tech]

I can get the firmware uploaded Monday. Sadly, I don't have access to the terminal we keep the firmware on today. My apologies - we should have had this up when S3 launched.

[sh...@sauropod.org]

Any word on that firmware?

[Andy c]

I heard from them today, I should see it tomorrow.

Andy

[Kendall]

@John
Hopefully, this means that it will be [Posted] on your website...

@Andy
Please give us a review when this Issue has been closed.  And enjoy your printing experience...

___________________ Kendall __________________

[Andy c]

John did send me the firmware and said they would put the firmware up.

I have not had a chance to upload to my printer yet.

Andy

[Andy c]

I did get my printer to print in across the whole bed just like it should :)

I updated the firmware with the correct one for the S3 and it still was not printing in the total area. I then worked through

the printer settings and realized that I had set X,0 and Y,0 as home when it needed to be X, 205 and Y,200. Once I worked from that

point of view my printer started printing across the whole bed.

Thanks to all for helping me through this.

Andy

[Kendall]

Andy; No problem, we all learn from these [Post]'s, just think about all the knowledge you gained, digging around in all the software/hardware features, while looking for your solution, now your one of the experts...

Now, closure come on this thread, when we hear that Solidoodle has the SD3 firmware posted for download on their website...
                                    ____________ Kendall ____________

[Francesco Santini]

On 03/04/2013 12:42 PM, Kendall wrote:

Now, closure come on this thread, when we hear that Solidoodle has the SD3 firmware posted for download on their website...

Solidoodle indeed published the firmware on their help page: http://www.solidoodle.com/how-to-2/how-to-update-firmware/

If you are interested, I made a small review of it here: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/1581/solidoodle3-firmware-unveiled/

There are some surprising things (and the different bed size is not one of them). Actually I'm surprised that the SD3 functionality is not completely broken when the wrong firmware is used.

Francesco

                                    ____________ Kendall ____________

On Sunday, March 3, 2013 8:23:20 PM UTC-6, Andy c wrote:

I did get my printer to print in across the whole bed just like it should :)

I updated the firmware with the correct one for the S3 and it still was not printing in the total area. I then worked through

the printer settings and realized that I had set X,0 and Y,0 as home when it needed to be X, 205 and Y,200. Once I worked from that

point of view my printer started printing across the whole bed.

Thanks to all for helping me through this.

Andy

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:52:15 PM UTC-5, Andy c wrote:

John did send me the firmware and said they would put the firmware up.

I have not had a chance to upload to my printer yet.

Andy

On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:39:30 AM UTC-5, Kendall wrote:

@John
Hopefully, this means that it will be [Posted] on your website...

@Andy
Please give us a review when this Issue has been closed.  And enjoy your printing experience...

___________________ Kendall __________________

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:17:48 PM UTC-6, Andy c wrote:

I heard from them today, I should see it tomorrow.

Andy

--

[Ian Johnson]

The firmware won't work.  The E steps are wrong, and the Marlin Beta this was based on had its homing broken.  That's why using Repetier initially required a firmware update.  Now that the official start gcode uses homing commands prints won't begin properly with this firmware.  The E steps are for an extruder motor that has a gearbox, so rather than get the firmware from github to make changes, they somehow grabbed a pre-production (or SD1) version.

[Francesco Santini]

Ok this would explain a lot. I hope John comments about it and fixes the link in the help page, it is potentially dangerous for SD3 users.

[Francesco Santini]

FYI After some manual browsing of the solidoodle website (I resorted to this since support never commented on any of this), this seems to be the correct firmware: http://www.solidoodle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Marlin__SD3_.zip

[Support Tech]

Francesco,
Fixed.

[waseem.t...@gmail.com]

Hi, Just got my S3 and haveing the same center problem so i guess the firmware is where i need to start but the HOW to on the Solidoodle page has links to Arduino got that and the Marlin S3 got that too unzipped but it does not have the so called SANGUINO Directory to copy in to Arduino Hardware as discribed in the steps on the HOW to page can some one Help with that.

[Kendall]

If you read through the Post's, I believe you should contact Support, sounds to me that your firmware was flashed correctly before leaving the factory...

[Waseem Tariq]

You mean it is the problem with the firmware i have contacted the support but still no reply.
i have all the requirements for the firmware but dont wana change it and then get to know that it was not required.

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[Kendall]

No; I would believe (by what I have read on the forums) you do have the correct Firmware Pre-Installed by SD, and your SD printer came, Firmware ready to go...

If your using Windows; their "All-In-One" software, installs all the software you need and does it for you, it also takes care of windows path problems (of finding Python); then Windows stores the Preferences and any changes you make, in your Users Account, so when you do future software upgrades (Slic3r (or) Repetier), installing upgrades into this directory (where everything got installed by the "All-In-One" package (RE: C:\Program Files\Repetier-Host-Solidoodle)), keeps all your settings and configurations intact, and leaves everything in their correct path...

If your using Linux or Mac, I don't know, maybe someone else can help you with an answer...

                      ___________ Kendall __________

On Tuesday, April 9, 2013 11:01:04 AM UTC-5, Waseem Tariq wrote:

You mean it is the problem with the firmware? i have contacted the support but still no reply.
i have all the requirements for the firmware but dont wana change it and then get to know that it was not required. <- Smart

[Waseem Tariq]

thanks again...this really helps..cause i am using windows n the support had given three links n said this is all i would need for my printer i did install them...will do the reinstalling from basic tomorrow after removing everything i did so far so its more factory default n then s wht issues i have....if any left...thanks for the help