Kapton Tape for heated bed?

[josh smith]

Hello... Just a few questions about kapton tape... Is it still the
recommended method for printing on heated beds with the Solidoodle?
Is there a size that is used by default (width, thickness, temp
tolerances)? How is it recommended to degrease the tape? How often
should the tape be replaced? I've found differing opinions across the
Internet and am wondering what the experience has been here... Thanks
for any suggestions.

[Ian Johnson]

You can get 100mm or 200mm Kapton tape on Ebay for around $35.  I would recommend getting 200mm and trimming the excess rather than trying to match up 2 strips.  For degreasing, I just wiped it down with some Windex, but I don't do that often because I usually need to replace it sooner.  It's easy to tear the tape trying to get parts off while the bed is hot.  They come off easily enough when the bed is cool, but I often would want to print something else right away rather than wait for the bed to cool down and heat back up.

[Kendall]

Josh,
Solidoodle told me that there will be a starter roll of kapton tape shipped with the Gen II Printer (though this is not listed in the "Whats in the box", so I do question this.  I am assuming that this also means; that we would be able to re-order from them, but I don't see it listed, or a price on it, on there website; as of yet...
Regards, Ken

Solidoodle,
If your monitoring this; please give us an update on supplies, replacement parts, and etc. for the Gen II (other than what is on your website presently (the filament only)), that we will be able to purchase direct from you, and their related cost.  Please also give a list of tools that we should have on hand, for using, adjusting, and cleaning-up the printer.
Thanks...

Ian,
Since your the closest thing of being an 'expert' with a 'Solidoodle', that is active in communications with us, maybe you could offer suggestions of what we should have on hand, for all the printing related functions; tools for tuning the machine, tools related to running the machine, tools & supplies for cleaning up the model, tools & cleaners for cleaning up after printing, and if/when the tape has to be changed, how to get the old tape and tape residue off easily, without damaging anything...

I see people saying we will need; dental picks, tweezers, putty knifes, wrenches, dykes, needle-nose pliers, exacto knives, heat guns, etc...  Sizes, shapes, and a little better description, sure would be nice; "What is needed", "When its needed", "How to use", & "What to watch out for"...

[josh smith]

Ian,

Thanks for the advice...i have seen that tape on ebay. Do you know
what thickness you use? I was under the impression it comes in 1,2,
and 5 mm thicknesses.

Ken,

On the website it mentions that;

"The machine should not need maintenance in the short term, but over
time, you will want to have multi-purpose grease on hand to lube the
rods and keep your prints smoothe.

You will also want to have replacement Kapton tape.  This is a
specialty tape that comes attached to the Solidoodle 2’s print bed and
keeps your prints sticking to the print bed.  Kapton tape is fragile
and may get torn or scraped – so keep extra on hand.

Both grease and Kapton tape will soon be made available for purchase
through our website."

Not sure when soon is but I would imagine soon. :)

I have a decent bit of experience working with 3d printed parts for
robotics, astrophotography and astronomy accessories, and scaled
models... I can list what I keep on hand to finish up pieces...

1.5" , 3", 4", and 6" putty knife for removing objects

A sharp 1" and 2" chisel rarely used for removing objects

A dremmel tool with assorted discs for smoothing corners and holes and
buffing off excess strands

Sand paper ranging from 100~400 grit more for finishing appearance and
cleaning rough flat surfaces... It takes a looong time to hand sand to
remove material but not too long to remove a stepped appearance on
angled and curved surfaces.

A full set of drill bits for cleaning out holes and I prefer to tap my
own threads by hand but print clearance holes

Abs cement homemade and store bought ( homemade allows more control of
consistency) generally used for gluing parts and polishing finishes

Always calipers

Several exacto and utility knives

Tweezers

Several sizes of needle nosed pliers just dependent on what can hold
the pieces I'm printing

A cookie rack to place cooling parts on

I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting, but that is what is sitting on
my work bench right now to clean up parts I've just printed. I've
always printed with soluble support material so removing abs support
material will be a new experience but from rep rap users I've seen
little jigs made that hold the model at stable points so that support
can be broken off/ cut off/ sanded off. Hope this helps and would
love to hear more from Ian and others about their finishing
techniques.

Perhaps we should create a new thread focused more on tools and
finishing techniques... Since the other active discussion members seem
to be reading this post, I also had one more suggestion or question...
Can we share a google doc spreadsheet in this forum? It seems like a
spreadsheet would be a good way to list essential tools and their
functions in an organized manner... Another good spreadsheet idea
would be to share print software settings, pictures of prints, time
for prints, and maybe general comments. Just my 2 cents and curious
if anyone else is interested.

[Ian Johnson]

Here is my toolkit-

Digital calipers are a must.  You will want to use them to check the dimensions of your parts, and also measure the filament.  Sometimes 1.75mm filament is actually 1.64 or 1.80, and you will want to input the exact size into the slicer settings for best results.

You need something to trim the filament, since the end is long and stringy when you pull it out of the extruder and it needs a clean cut on the end before you feed it back in.  The trimmer I have was in the beading section at Michaels, and is designed to cut flush with a surface.  I thought that would be good for trimming strings.  A very sharp exacto is the best cleanup tool.

The tweezers are for pulling extruded plastic off of the nozzle, which you will be doing all the time.  Plastic tends to ooze out on its own, so when you are about to start a print, the nozzle is a little bit empty.  Right before you start it is a good idea to run it manually a little to prime it.  While it is homing, it tends to drip a little so I like to swipe it with the tweezers one more time just before it reaches the bed to insure a clean line at the start.  Slic3r has an option to print a few outlines a short distance from the part to prime the nozzle, but sometimes there isn't enough room to do this.  The tweezers are also good for gripping nuts in tight spaces.

I have 2mm and 2.5mm hex screwdrivers, since these are the sizes used on the printer.  You will use these to take the case on and off (if you got the Pro), adjusting the level of the bed, adjusting the screw that determines how close the bed gets to the nozzle, and taking the extruder apart.  Sometimes the filament gets jammed, maybe due to a tangle or too much dust accumulating in the teeth of the gear.  You will need to take off the idler arm (the part that pushes the filament against the gear) to get the filament out.  I also like to take the acrylic portion of the extruder off the motor because it makes it easier to brush the plastic dust out of the gear and acrylic.  A kid sized toothbrush is best for this (maybe you can find a good Star Wars one rather than Dora the Explorer).  If the filament gets jammed, the gear will scrape against it, and the ground up plastic needs to be cleared out before it's used again.

I like to use a feeler gauge to measure the distance between the nozzle and bed while leveling, though you can use a piece of paper (usually .1mm thick) for this instead.  I like having something metal, and a known thickness.  However the metal sucks which trying to level a bed that is hot.  I think it is best to do the leveling while the bed is heated, because the expansion of the metal bed can affect its distance to the nozzle.

I use a spreading knife to pry parts from the bed.  Some people use a chisel, but it's easier to rip the kapton with one.  If I can't get the knife under the edge of the part, I will use the exacto to carefully lift it enough to get the spreader under it.  I don't know how thick my Kapton is, but I don't think it matters all that much.  .5mm is probably too much, .1mm or less is more normal for tape.  The tape peels off clean, there is no residue.

I use a heat gun sometimes to warm the bed if I am too impatient to wait for it to heat up on its own.  I don't know how much of an issue that would be for the Gen 2.  My heated bed was added on as a beta test, with the existing power supply, but I believe the Gen 2 has a beefier power supply so the bed probably gets hotter, quicker.  Before I got the heated bed I used the heat gun to warm up the inside of the printer to combat warping.  If you have the model with the case, and have trouble with warping on upper layers, you can try this.  None of the hobby printers has a heated chamber, but the Solidoodle's case makes it possible to experiment with at least a gently heated chamber.  You wouldn't want to go too hot due to the acrylic and electronics inside.

For cleaning up the print, you will want an exacto and sandpaper.  A quick acetone wash can dissolve small strings almost instantly, though only for ABS.  For really smoothing out a print, there still isn't any alternative to the traditional sanding routine.  You can mix up some acetone with abs and use it to fill in the texture a bit, but you might still end up sanding in the end.  Plenty of stuff you want to print might not need to look so smooth, and if something needs a really nice finish, you can consider iterating on the Solidoodle and sending the final version to Shapeways.

.

[Ian Johnson]

I haven't had much luck making my own ABS cement.  The filament I've used seems to have some additives that don't dissolve, so it always comes out lumpy.  Instead I get cement from the store, and then thin it with acetone.  Unfortunately this limits to color to black.    

[josh smith]

Ya... I've had mixed success with making my own abs cement as well. I
had a couple of big old prints that I made on a Stratasys a while back
and just ground them up to make my cement. Fortunately, a little
cement goes a long ways so I'm still working off that. I've found the
thicker cement works well for glueing pieces and thinner cement for
finishing pieces, filling in holes, and polishing. Ian, are you
saying the filament from the solidoodle site is not pure abs then or
did you get you abs somewhere else?

[Ian Johnson]

The ABS I dissolved was the natural from Solidoodle.  I also have ABS from Ultimachine and a supplier on Amazon.  Whether it is pure ABS or not, it still prints just fine.  I haven't tried dissolving the others since I have pretty good luck with the store bought cement.

[Kendall]

Josh, Thanks; this will help me get prepared...

[Kendall]

Thanks Ian & Josh; as we get more organized, bet we all will be able to add to some type of Living Document (spread-sheet) for Solidoodle owners to share technology...

I am retired but still self employed, I'm not sure just where I'm going with this 3d printer purchase, but in the back of my mind, rolling around, is a vision of either converting this machine or creating a new one; that the hot bed will just drop on to a CNC Mills bed and self locate, on my (or anyone's) existing CNC Mill, the extruder would just be installed into a standard collet (with the center of the extruder on the center of the spindle), filament just be feed down the Spindle hole, create a new [TAB] 'Screen Page' in the existing controller software (MACH3) to handle the machine, and create a portable 3d printer that anyone can just add to their existing CNC.  In other words; this may just be a tinkering, on going, project that I am just doing for fun...  I have accomplish other projects like this, the last one was using a webcam inserted into a collet as an accurate inspection device, and by adding and running a screen (set up by a [Menu] pick inside MACH3, that runs a wizard creating a new [window] for the webcam picture that has angular adjustable cross-hairs) and utilizing the controller software as the DRO for accurate readings...

My vision may just be a blurred one right now, but the owner of MACH3 software claims his software is capable of handling a 3d printer scenario by utilizing the A axis (4th axis) for the extruder controls (you would need a motor for the extruder).  Other people are messing around with this idea presently.  Think about it, no X-Y-Z motors or sliding mechanizes needed, you would have a solid working existing base where all three directions are square to each other.  Homing, part of the existing controller; no adjustments for flatness would be needed; the Part X-Y location would be a constant, Z could be set with a Z setter then adjusted for the start gap that you wanted (this could be a manual or automatic function); motor ramp up/down built-in; motor tuning built-in (accuracy for steps per unit of movement (RE: that 10,00 MM = 10,00 MM)); so on; and on...

[Support Tech]

We are still developing options for replacement Kapton tape. We want
to develop the best options for our customers. We have talked about
the option of a roll before, but we are still in the process of
crafting the final solution. Currently the Solidoodle 2 is not
shipping with a replacement roll, but soon there will a Kapton tape
option in the store. In terms of tools, the only tool we foresee the
user needing is some sort of scraper to remove the object from the
bed. Any flat angled object, such as a wood chisel will work for this.
Something as sharp and flat as a hobby knife is a bad choice because
it has high risk of cutting the Kapton tape. Whatever tool is used
must have an angle to avoid cutting the tape.
User will eventually want to oil the rods on the machine. Any kind of
grease should do the job. Let us know if you guys have any questions -
we'd be happy to answer them.

Regards,
John

On Jun 10, 4:56 pm, Kendall <fd2...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kendall]

Thanks Support Tech:

Understand that a lot of us are new to this process.  Also, you have given us 6 to 8 weeks to do as much research as possible to get up to speed (before expecting delivery of our new toy) and help us  get through this new learning experience that we are all so anxiously awaiting...

A lot of reading and asking questions shows me that maybe, just maybe, we might need a little more in the way of tools and supplies (and specific specified types of supplies)...

Sounds (by what I am reading (with a grain of salt of course, I do understand that most of the post that we read are not monitored for accuracy; but I do try, to read in logic when absorbing them).  Maybe, just maybe; we may also will need some specialized type of tweezers, a small brush (maybe a little hand held vacuum; like we use on our computers), and if we are like others, that Kapton Tape or whatever your new recommendation might be, are items that should be on-hand (just encase we do something stupid; like damage it, when trying to remove a built model, or do have some extruder feed shavings build up)...

As far as just any old oil/lube, this is a dangerous suggestion for some of us, I have some personal experience with this; oils/greases (any lubes) are made up of different chemicals, some of these chemicals attack plastic parts, making them break down and/or prematurely age (make them go though a hardening or dissolving process, leaving the structure of the plastic resin part waiting for failure).  So, if your not there yet, this is something that you should also be investigating, specificly which lube will work properly without shortening life expectancy.  Very few plastics resin types have  good chemical resistance! (quote by Ken Miller, Fun Dimensional, Inc, Leander, Texas (approaching near 45 years with the development of plastic products, in the 'Product Development world')...

Please don't take this as an attack, only meaning to point things out, for the betterment of all our futures...

Ken

[Support Tech]

Ken,
We have thought about providing tweezers in the past, and they wouldn't be a bad idea. We've never had to use any in the shop, but we keep some around for general purpose use. I don't think any specialized tweezers are necessary though. For some users, smaller may be better. If you plan on using supports for your creations, you may think of some tools to "finish" your item after the supports have been removed. A brush for the excess plastic would be nice to have around, but is not strictly necessary. In the past the excess plastic has been pretty manageable. Your concerns about tools are great to know, and I'm sure this information will influence what accessories are placed in the store. Please let us know if there is anything else you think of.
In Terms of the grease, we use general purpose grease in the shop. You are correct to point out that grease dissolves many plastics, but properly applied, the grease should never touch any plastic part of the machine. Remember, only the rods need greasing, and only infrequently. We have never had problems with printed items, or internal parts dissolving. That said, we will be on the look out for any grease-related defects in the product.

While I'm here, I'd like to announce that Solidoodle is opening an IRC channel. If you would ever like live support over chat, head over to irc:freenode and join #solidoodle. I'm on there every day 9am-6pm answering user questions.