Re: Dioxins and Dung Washing: [biochar] biochar production model

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Erich Knight

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Jun 17, 2016, 1:37:07 AM6/17/16
to biochar, se-bi...@googlegroups.com, Soil Age
OK....... I have got to chime in,.... Sorry for the politics on this science forum....... But I must.

First to Don;
In my experience, and I have lived overseas, the US Meritocracy is surpassed by no other country.
US Democracy is threatened by an individual's Money being free speech and particularly the interpretation of corporate $s as a form of free speech. 

Trump is but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
 5..4...3..2..1 as the young girl plucks the peddles from a daisy... 0, then a classic 20 Mega ton H-bomb blast, the TV political add that sunk Goldwater in 1964, (which happens to be the dawning of the Intended Anthropocene era). Hill & Bill will clean Trump's clock, just as Lyndon did Barry's.  Bill will be the "Eleanor Roosevelt" of First Gentlemen, setting the bar that high given his charisma, political, diplomatic and philanthropic skills.

At the end of Hill's second term, 8 years of sane policies, climate & energy policies, and hopefully soil policies, if she listens to us, internalizing external carbon costs into soil value, that world will be very different.
Innovation is exponential, my kids will never have to take my car away as i had to do with my parents, wish I could have bought them a self driving car, an automated home or robotic care giver. I'm pretty sure my home will be my "Nursing Home".. If Mercedes were computers they would get 100 MPG & cost $200.

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, speeds in this robust pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time.

Kevin;
WHAT ?..... USA corruption?, you must mean The Corruption of Science by tobacco & Oil interests?...."AGW a Hoax".  Again except for a few Nordic countries we rank quite high, ever try to bribe a cop, don't!, every where I lived in Africa a common every day occurrence. As a small business guy never have I been offered a "Kick Back", again common practice in much of the world.

“New Kid on the Block”, ya...who will blow up the block,


On to Manure; the lowest of the low hanging fruit feedstocks

Context & need dictates use.
CAFOs mostly need to get rid of N, so gasifing it into N2 makes sense. retaining the P in char makes sense.
The need for green electrons makes more than cents.
Add this char as a bulking agent in a composting operation for a perfect storm of nutrients, an organic farmer's wet dream, Compost with a high N & P content.

Cheers,

Erich

Erich J. Knight
Shenandoah Gardens
1047 Dave Berry Rd. McGaheysville, VA. 22840
  540-289-9750   

Policy & Community Chairman
2013 North American Biochar Symposium
Harvesting Hope: The Science & Synergies of Biochar
October 13-16, 2013 at UMASS Amherst
http://pvbiochar.org/2013-symposium/


On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:35 PM, kchi...@seaside.ns.ca [biochar] <bio...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

 

Hi Don

 

From: bio...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bio...@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 8:45 PM
To: bio...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biochar] biochar production model [2 Attachments]

 

 

[Attachment(s) from dgr...@ihug.co.nz included below]

Hi Kevin

Dung may be a valuable fuel in some rural communities, ... but speaking as a plant biologist & soil ecologist with so much other plant biomass readily avaiiable,  ... burning animal manures would truly be a waste!!!

# Yes it is a terrible waste!!  Especially, if it is used to make biochar for the soil…

1: In the charring process, much of the “fertilizer goodness” is destroyed.

2: If the resulting biochar is added to soil, it will almost certainly create poorer yields, in that existing soil nutrients will likely be sequestered by the biochar.

3: People that are so poor that they need to burn dung for fuel certainly cannot afford to purchase fertilizer.

# On the other hand, if the dung was washed, most of the nutrients would be recovered… soluble salts and minerals, hormones, protein, other beneficial organic compounds, etc. The “Dung Washings” or “Manure Tea” is well known for its beneficial fertilizing properties.

I'm not a chemist, nor is pyrolysis my forte, however.... Howevr, my dim dark memory recall is that high temperature kilns (i.e. > 1000 degrees celsius) will destroy dioxins.  

# As I understand it, dioxins are indeed destroyed by very high temperatures, but that they can reform back to dioxins, as the products of combustion cool. The free chlorine can react with the hydrocarbons present from incomplete combustion.

I'm sure there will be literature available on this matter, as PVC & organo-chlorines, & many other halogenated pesticides are routinely destroyed in such high temperature furnaces...  So unless you plan to co-burn dung with wood charcoal or else smelting coke ... or high oxygen furnaces to obtain high temperatures ... don't bother

# OK, but a smoldering dung fire is anything but a “high temperature, high oxygen furnace”.

or as Mike the worm guy may say.... that's my 2 cents worth!!

P.S.  I would like to have heard your feedback about the BS & other combustable gases originating from the latest political season in the US

# It is probably better that I drop you a note off-list….

see ... I like the quote from Brazillian writer & philosopher Paolo Coehlo :

  • "We change the world by our example, not by our opinion"

And here is one from Kevin Chisholm, 16 June, 2016:  “One experiment, and one analysis, trumps 1,000 opinions.” ;-)

Best wishes,

Kevin

& another quote"

·         "Attitude is Everything
Be kinder than necessary
Everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle
Live simply
Love generously
Care deeply
Speak Kindly
And Have respect"
·         Do you have anything to say about these quotes in regard to the appearance or content ofUS politics?
·         Do you want the stereotype of US citizens to be shaped by the attitudes of current US presidential candidates?

 

---
Don Graves
17 Wilkie Street
Motueka
ph.(03)5288918

On 17/06/2016 10:50, kchi...@seaside.ns.ca [biochar] wrote:

 

 

Hi Don

 

I was hoping that you would comment onDung fuels…

“ DRY DUNG is a great fuel!!

#  “Raw dung” contains chloride, whether it is wet or dried. “Raw dung, wet or dry, will thus produce dioxins. “Washed and dried dung” would contain virtually no chloride, and should thus produce virtually no dioxins. Have you (or anyone else) tested the products of raw dung combustion for dioxins? “

# Thanks!

Kevin

 

From: bio...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bio...@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 6:16 PM
To: bio...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biochar] biochar production model [1 Attachment]

 

 

[Attachment(s) from dgr...@ihug.co.nz included below]

Hi Kevin

As I said  previously ... I'm pleased that I'm NOT AMERICAN

  • LEADERSHIP:  RESPECT & TRUST are EARNED .... NOT COMMANDED
  • If US citizens want their global political influence & their nation to be respected or trusted by non-US citizens, .... then they need to have a news media, & to provide & elect political leaders, who reflect these properties of respected & trusted leadership.
  • Trump could hardly be said to have earned respect or trust, he's a cartoon caricature of Family Guy, Homer & Bart Simpson... not a role model, an egocentric 'reality TV' Rentertainment character, ... not someone with thoughtful ideas of how to fix things
  • U.S.$19.6 trillion debt!!!
    • get your heads around that ,... 
    • If America wants to be "great" again, then things will need to change from within
    • Wars on terrorism? wars on drugs.... stop looking at the problems outside your boundaries, or blaming others, ... look within 
    • spending your way out of that much debt??? 
    • the global financial crisis hasn't gone away, the banking & debt problems weren't fixed, just moved in time & place

Take a look in the mirror US!

  • see how global citizens who are non-Americans see your example of "democracy'  ... decadent, dysfunctional & desperate
  • ... lead by example & by political policies that show respect for other nations, genders, religions, races & politics

 

 

---
Don Graves
17 Wilkie Street
Motueka
ph.(03)5288918

On 17/06/2016 00:08, kchi...@seaside.ns.ca [biochar] wrote:

 

 

Hi Don

 

From: bio...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bio...@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 6:58 AM
To: bio...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biochar] biochar production model [3 Attachments]

 

 

[Attachment(s) from dgr...@ihug.co.nz included below]

I agree with you on several points here... there are plenty of avoidable health hazards with inefficient burning practices:

  • breathing in smokey fuels from cooking fires operated within small confined living spaces, 
  • inefficient domestic heating burners, 
  • inadequately dried firewood
  • burning fresh green apple trees or kiwifruit vines is just bloody-mindedness by farmers in combination with timid local authorities, too scared to challenge vested interest farmer groups who are totally determined to do what they've always been able to do, tip diesel fuel on piles of green trees .... 

….del…

DRY DUNG is a great fuel!!

#  “Raw dung” contains chloride, whether it is wet or dried. “Raw dung, wet or dry, will thus produce dioxins. “Washed and dried dung” would contain virtually no chloride, and should thus produce virtually no dioxins. Have you (or anyone else) tested the products of raw dung combustion for dioxins?

I'm just so glad that I'm not American !!!  

Everybody's B.S. detectors are on full alert,  it must be all that hot air or bio-gas mixed with BS, but something stinks!  

  • This bad mannered Uncle Disney Donald Trump dude is a bad taste joke right?, Like Family Guy/ Homer & Bart Simpson on super steroids? ... just not at all funny!! What politician from anywhere else in the world will be able to engage in a serious conversation with him, does Trump have any clues about what diplomacy is for, or how to do it? 
    • The once helpful "KISS" principle (keep it simple stupid) ...seem to have had a recent political make-over for Reality BS-TV "KEEP IT STUPID SIMPLE"
  • Hillary Clinton is not all she'd want us to believe either, I'm all for a voters choosing a Woman President, but will she be any different to Britain's Iron Lady (or should that be Iron Maiden? ... or Maggie Thatcher Jnr. )?  What are they thinking of calling Bill Clinton?  The First Gentleman? NO??   .....  .... ..... oh yeah, The First Phillanderer  now that's a joke!!

GOOD LUCK MARK

 # Trump is a wonderful example of “Democracy at its Finest”. Don’t put Trump down without considering the alternative… an “Establishment President” corrupted by the elite behind the scenes.” Without a “New Kid on the Block”, the only apparent solution to USA corruption and inequity would be another kind of Revolution… a violent one.

Best wishes,

Kevin

---
Don Graves
17 Wilkie Street
Motueka
ph.(03)5288918

On 16/06/2016 20:48, 'Mark Elliott Ludlow' ma...@ludlow.com [biochar] wrote:

 

 

Hi Don,

I think that there are instances where suitable stove fuel is close at hand, but it almost has to be the result of some kind of industrial operation, likely agriculture or wood products processing.

Cooking fires are the number one preventable cause of premature death, as well as respiratory diseases, worldwide, particularly among women who frequently spend a disproportionate amount of time tending to cooking chores in the flume of a smoky, toxic fire.

Unfortunately, the instances where there may be suitable fuel at hand for a modern--say TLUD--stove design may not be as commonplace as one might imagine. Potentially, a great deal of effort must be spent to keep the home fires burning. In many parts of the world, dried dung is a common fuel.

Given the inordinate effort expended on fuel gathering, it may be a little much to expect that people in rural areas would have a great deal of enthusiasm for producing char, except, perhaps, in the instance where the char itself may be used as cooking fuel.

While this may be unfortunate—particularly if the char could increase the productivity of a kitchen garden—I find it totally understandable.

Just out of curiosity: how do clean-burning cookstoves do with dried dung as a fuel? We’re headed into the political season here in the U.S. and already there are great excesses of potential fuel being tossed about!

Mark

 

 

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