I saw a "Russian Mail Order Bride" Live and in Person
mjmo...@hotmail.com
I was waiting in line at an amusement park to go on one of those
virtual reality rides, and behind me in line there was a rather
unlikely looking couple. The girl looked way too young and way
too cute to be with the guy who she was with.
The line I was waiting in was moving REAL slow, i was getting
really bored so I started eavesdropping on this unlikely looking
couple's conversation. I sorta checked 'em out. That's when I
noticed that the girl was talking in a Russian accent and that
the man was not (which made me rule out the possibility that he
was her father).
The man looked to be in his forties,
unattractive but not down right ugly or anything. He was about
average height and weight, he was balding, and he had yucky
posture (and he was dressed in goofy looking slacks (I'm not sure
why that was significant, but it was). To tell ya the truth,
there was something somewhat repulsive about him that i couldn't
quite put my finger on. I found him more unappealing than his
bad-looks alone should have made him. I think he had repulsive
body language or something. He also seemed to have an
unwarranted sense of superiority. I dunno. I did not like him,
but he didn't seem like a miserable tyrant that would beat the girl
up or anything. He was nice enough to bring her to the amusement
park.
The woman looked young (I'd guess late teens or early twenties).
She was cute. Kinda the voluptuous type. She was dressed real
cute, sorta like a typical high school girl would dress, and she
seemed like a rather pleasant person. She was reading some of
the signs for the various rides that were around her, and when
she came across a word she didn't know she'd ask the guy what the
word meant. The guy answered her questions in a VERY ANNOYED
tone of voice (like he thought she was stupid or something). The
questions weren't stupid. The words she was asking about were
words like 'riveting'. She pronounced these words pretty well,
and i was kinda impressed with her phonics ability. I probably
wouldn't have been able to sound out English words i didn't know
as well as she did. I never could do that phonics shit (i was
always more of a math-science chick, but i digress..).
His annoyed attitude did not discourage her. She kept up her
pleasant chatter and she kept asking him about words she didn't
know. She seemed rather intelligent to me. He was very impatient
with her questions, and with her chatter in general, but he did
answer her questions. He seemed embarrassed by her for some
reason.
What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
Monica
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Isaak Roll
(mjmo...@hotmail.com) writes:
>.................. The girl looked way too young and way
> too cute to be with the guy who she was with.
> What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
> seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
> be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
>
> Monica
I bet the yong lady was happy _because_ the man was miserable.
Also possible, but less likely, the man had to entertain her for reasons
unknown to the rest of us and felt he had better things to do.
IR
--
I. Roll, 481 Cumberland|" And now you'd think I had said all, but
Ottawa, ON, K1N-7K1 | ye shall hear yet greater things."
Canada,1(613)236-4666 |
Crash Street Kidd
>
> I saw a "Russian Mail Order Bride" Live and in Person.
>
> I was waiting in line at an amusement park to go on one of those
> virtual reality rides, and behind me in line there was a rather
> too cute to be with the guy who she was with.
Maybe it was Irina.
> The line I was waiting in was moving REAL slow, i was getting
> really bored so I started eavesdropping on this unlikely looking
> couple's conversation. I sorta checked 'em out. That's when I
> noticed that the girl was talking in a Russian accent and that
> the man was not (which made me rule out the possibility that he
> was her father).
What made you think that they were "together"? Perhaps he was her
North American cousin or uncle or father-in-law.
> The man looked to be in his forties,
> unattractive but not down right ugly or anything. He was about
> average height and weight, he was balding, and he had yucky
> posture
Yucky posture? Slouching or cringing, with a hunted look?
>(and he was dressed in goofy looking slacks (I'm not sure
> why that was significant, but it was).
Was he wearing a plaid shirt too? :-)
> To tell ya the truth,
> there was something somewhat repulsive about him that i couldn't
> quite put my finger on.
Perhaps you were projecting some of the characteristics of some
unnamed Gollum we all know and love (well maybe not) on this random
stranger. Perhaps he reminded you of someone that you've had
unpleasant associations with. Anyone who resembled him in your past?
Sometimes I find myself thinking that this person before me reminds
me of someone else I know. The scary part is how often these instant
impressions are right.
> I found him more unappealing than his
> bad-looks alone should have made him. I think he had repulsive
> body language or something.
Repulsive body language? Gollum-like?
> He also seemed to have an
> unwarranted sense of superiority.
Aristocratic bearing? Perhaps he thought of her as uneducated.
A professor or a doctor maybe who had imported this girl who
had perhaps only finished high school. Which may be equivalent
to someone who finished an undergrad degree over here in many
cases.
> I dunno. I did not like him,
> but he didn't seem like a miserable tyrant that would beat the girl
> up or anything. He was nice enough to bring her to the amusement
> park.
Perhaps that was her choice not his. Was there any other sign
of niceness beyond his presence at the amusement park with her?
> The woman looked young (I'd guess late teens or early twenties).
> She was cute. Kinda the voluptuous type. She was dressed real
> cute, sorta like a typical high school girl would dress, and she
> seemed like a rather pleasant person. She was reading some of
> the signs for the various rides that were around her, and when
> she came across a word she didn't know she'd ask the guy what the
> word meant. The guy answered her questions in a VERY ANNOYED
> tone of voice (like he thought she was stupid or something).
He's a psychic vampire. Warming his bones on her fire. Stealing
her energy and light. Leaving her drained eventually. I found a
neat book on such vampires on boxing day at the bookstore
but the lines were so long I hid it among the computer books
and went on to do some shopping in the mall intending to return
and retrieve it later when the crowd thinned out. When I returned
it was scooped by someone else even though I hid it well. It talked
about these types of relationships. I skimmed through it so I
absorbed most of the ideas but it had some neat quotes. Darn.
> The
> questions weren't stupid. The words she was asking about were
> words like 'riveting'. She pronounced these words pretty well,
> and i was kinda impressed with her phonics ability. I probably
> wouldn't have been able to sound out English words i didn't know
> as well as she did. I never could do that phonics shit (i was
> always more of a math-science chick, but i digress..).
>
> His annoyed attitude did not discourage her.
Actually every Russian male that I've met had this air. They also
wore funny looking pants. Maybe she just thought that he was being
a typical male. I haven't met any Russian women curiously. Its one
of the reasons that I so enjoyed beating Russians when I useta play
chess on a regular basis. It so pissed them off to lose to a
non-Russian. Tee hee hee.
> She kept up her
> pleasant chatter and she kept asking him about words she didn't
> know. She seemed rather intelligent to me. He was very impatient
> with her questions, and with her chatter in general,
If he's spent a lot of time alone perhaps the company and
pleasant chatter were getting on his nerves. Perhaps he
married her without falling in love with her. And now
he realizes that he may never love her or anyone else
for he has no love in him and that he has
made a terrible mistake but it is too late to back out
without sending Irina back to the salt mines.
> but he did
> answer her questions. He seemed embarrassed by her for some
> reason.
Perhaps he felt that she was too good for him so he was doing
his unconscious best to sabotage the relationship which he
felt he did not deserve.
> What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
> seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
> be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
Perhaps he discovered that being married to the Russian babe
did nothing to improve his personality or his happiness or
dispel the clinging scent of the loser which is an internally
generated phenomenon and which can only be remedied by doing
the necessary internal work.
<SMOOCHIES!!!>
Crash Street Kidd, speculating about strangers you never met is fun.
>
> Monica
mjmo...@hotmail.com
Crash Street Kidd <CrashSt...@earthling.net> wrote:
> mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I saw a "Russian Mail Order Bride" Live and in Person.
> >
> > I was waiting in line at an amusement park to go on one of those
> > virtual reality rides, and behind me in line there was a rather
> > unlikely looking couple. The girl looked way too young and way
> > too cute to be with the guy who she was with.
>
> Maybe it was Irina.
>
> > The line I was waiting in was moving REAL slow, i was getting
> > really bored so I started eavesdropping on this unlikely looking
> > couple's conversation. I sorta checked 'em out. That's when I
> > noticed that the girl was talking in a Russian accent and that
> > the man was not (which made me rule out the possibility that he
> > was her father).
>
> What made you think that they were "together"? Perhaps he was her
> North American cousin or uncle or father-in-law.
At one point they were holding hands.
> > The man looked to be in his forties,
> > unattractive but not down right ugly or anything. He was about
> > average height and weight, he was balding, and he had yucky
> > posture
>
> Yucky posture? Slouching or cringing, with a hunted look?
I dunno. Sorta slouching *and* cringing.
But that doesn't really explain it. I think the guy held himself
as if he had a deep sense of "inner ill at ease".
Whatever this was, it didn't look comparable to normal
nervousness or to someone who's temporarily uncomfortable or
jittery. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's the
best I can do to explain it.
> >(and he was dressed in goofy looking slacks (I'm not sure
> > why that was significant, but it was).
>
> Was he wearing a plaid shirt too? :-)
I don't remember what kind of shirt he was wearing. And I didn't
even bother to check out his butt :-)
> > To tell ya the truth,
> > there was something somewhat repulsive about him that i couldn't
> > quite put my finger on.
>
> Perhaps you were projecting some of the characteristics of some
> unnamed Gollum we all know and love (well maybe not) on this random
> stranger. Perhaps he reminded you of someone that you've had
> unpleasant associations with.
> Anyone who resembled him in your past?
No.
> Sometimes I find myself thinking that this person before me reminds
> me of someone else I know. The scary part is how often these instant
> impressions are right.
Yeah. I'm often amazed at how accurate a lot of my first
impressions are. Of course, this could be due to some sort of
self-fulfilling prophecy (I expect 'em to be a certain way, and
then I go on to interpret them in that way, even when that
interpretation doesn't quite fit)... but I don't think so.
> > I found him more unappealing than his
> > bad-looks alone should have made him. I think he had repulsive
> > body language or something.
>
> Repulsive body language? Gollum-like?
>
> > He also seemed to have an
> > unwarranted sense of superiority.
>
> Aristocratic bearing? Perhaps he thought of her as uneducated.
> A professor or a doctor maybe who had imported this girl who
> had perhaps only finished high school. Which may be equivalent
> to someone who finished an undergrad degree over here in many
> cases.
I find that an unwarranted sense of superiority is one of the
surest signs of inferiority.
> > I dunno. I did not like him,
> > but he didn't seem like a miserable tyrant that would beat the girl
> > up or anything. He was nice enough to bring her to the amusement
> > park.
>
> Perhaps that was her choice not his. Was there any other sign
> of niceness beyond his presence at the amusement park with her?
No.
> > The woman looked young (I'd guess late teens or early twenties).
> > She was cute. Kinda the voluptuous type. She was dressed real
> > cute, sorta like a typical high school girl would dress, and she
> > seemed like a rather pleasant person. She was reading some of
> > the signs for the various rides that were around her, and when
> > she came across a word she didn't know she'd ask the guy what the
> > word meant. The guy answered her questions in a VERY ANNOYED
> > tone of voice (like he thought she was stupid or something).
>
> He's a psychic vampire. Warming his bones on her fire. Stealing
> her energy and light. Leaving her drained eventually. I found a
> neat book on such vampires on boxing day at the bookstore
> but the lines were so long I hid it among the computer books
> and went on to do some shopping in the mall intending to return
> and retrieve it later when the crowd thinned out. When I returned
> it was scooped by someone else even though I hid it well.
That sucks.
> It talked
> about these types of relationships. I skimmed through it so I
> absorbed most of the ideas but it had some neat quotes. Darn.
>
> > The
> > questions weren't stupid. The words she was asking about were
> > words like 'riveting'. She pronounced these words pretty well,
> > and i was kinda impressed with her phonics ability. I probably
> > wouldn't have been able to sound out English words i didn't know
> > as well as she did. I never could do that phonics shit (i was
> > always more of a math-science chick, but i digress..).
> >
> > His annoyed attitude did not discourage her.
>
> Actually every Russian male that I've met had this air. They also
> wore funny looking pants. Maybe she just thought that he was being
> a typical male. I haven't met any Russian women curiously. Its one
> of the reasons that I so enjoyed beating Russians when I useta play
> chess on a regular basis. It so pissed them off to lose to a
> non-Russian. Tee hee hee.
I used to play chess when I was a kid. I was never very good at
it, but I used to play with this boy who lived down the street and
he was even less good, so I regularly beat him. When my dad
noticed this, he told me that I needed to stop beating boys at
chess cuz this wouldn't be a good habit to continue when I got
older (he basically said that guys can't handle being beaten at
something like chess, by a girl). I was eleven years old when he
told me this. Maybe he was just kidding, but I didn't think so
at the time. I remember this sort of upset me. I kind of
expected him to be proud of me for being good at something.
Anyway, shortly after that I quit playing chess. I couldn't see any
point in playing a competitive game if I didn't play to win WIN WIN!!
I do remember that beating people at chess was pretty damn fun.
This is so true.
> <SMOOCHIES!!!>
>
> Crash Street Kidd, speculating about strangers you never met is fun.
It sure is ;)
John Smith
more linked with her intellectual and emotional level? AND... doesn't this
doofus of a guy realize that he is very lucky?
John Smith
(And yes, it really IS my real name. And I had a girlfriend that some
idiot asked, "So, is this your Pocahantas?" She was quarter Huron. I will
never forget the mouthful that the idiot got. It was poetry to my ears,)
mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I saw a "Russian Mail Order Bride" Live and in Person.
>
> I was waiting in line at an amusement park to go on one of those
> virtual reality rides, and behind me in line there was a rather
> unlikely looking couple. The girl looked way too young and way
> too cute to be with the guy who she was with.
>
> The line I was waiting in was moving REAL slow, i was getting
> really bored so I started eavesdropping on this unlikely looking
> couple's conversation. I sorta checked 'em out. That's when I
> noticed that the girl was talking in a Russian accent and that
> the man was not (which made me rule out the possibility that he
> was her father).
>
> The man looked to be in his forties,
> unattractive but not down right ugly or anything. He was about
> average height and weight, he was balding, and he had yucky
> posture (and he was dressed in goofy looking slacks (I'm not sure
> why that was significant, but it was). To tell ya the truth,
> there was something somewhat repulsive about him that i couldn't
> quite put my finger on. I found him more unappealing than his
> bad-looks alone should have made him. I think he had repulsive
> body language or something. He also seemed to have an
> unwarranted sense of superiority. I dunno. I did not like him,
> but he didn't seem like a miserable tyrant that would beat the girl
> up or anything. He was nice enough to bring her to the amusement
> park.
>
> The woman looked young (I'd guess late teens or early twenties).
> She was cute. Kinda the voluptuous type. She was dressed real
> cute, sorta like a typical high school girl would dress, and she
> seemed like a rather pleasant person. She was reading some of
> the signs for the various rides that were around her, and when
> she came across a word she didn't know she'd ask the guy what the
> word meant. The guy answered her questions in a VERY ANNOYED
> tone of voice (like he thought she was stupid or something). The
> questions weren't stupid. The words she was asking about were
> words like 'riveting'. She pronounced these words pretty well,
> and i was kinda impressed with her phonics ability. I probably
> wouldn't have been able to sound out English words i didn't know
> as well as she did. I never could do that phonics shit (i was
> always more of a math-science chick, but i digress..).
>
> His annoyed attitude did not discourage her. She kept up her
> pleasant chatter and she kept asking him about words she didn't
> know. She seemed rather intelligent to me. He was very impatient
> with her questions, and with her chatter in general, but he did
> answer her questions. He seemed embarrassed by her for some
> reason.
>
> What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
> seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
> be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
>
songbird
mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote in message <76jttm$mgd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
[...] (hope i got the attributions correct :)
> What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
> seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
> be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
she was just probably happy as all get out to have
gotten out of Russia. it's a tough place to be at the
moment. without some recent aid they would have had a
catastrophe there this winter (and they still might be, but
we aren't hearing about it). from what little i do see
i'd be happy as all heck *wave* to get out of such a place.
in a few years maybe things will be different enough that
she'll figure it out and move on. it doesn't sound like he will.
(and i'm thankful i didn't take up my idea for moving there.)
songbird *chirps*
Crash Street Kidd
>
> In article <368AEC84...@earthling.net>,
> Crash Street Kidd <CrashSt...@earthling.net> wrote:
> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I saw a "Russian Mail Order Bride" Live and in Person.
[Snip description of gollum and beautiful Russian girl]
> > What made you think that they were "together"? Perhaps he was her
> > North American cousin or uncle or father-in-law.
>
> At one point they were holding hands.
So it was Beauty and the Beast minus the Beast's inner beauty.
> > > The man looked to be in his forties,
> > > unattractive but not down right ugly or anything. He was about
> > > average height and weight, he was balding, and he had yucky
> > > posture
> >
> > Yucky posture? Slouching or cringing, with a hunted look?
>
> I dunno. Sorta slouching *and* cringing.
> But that doesn't really explain it. I think the guy held himself
> as if he had a deep sense of "inner ill at ease".
Maybe he was fooling around with her and the husband was
even worse than him. And bigger (that would explain the
cringing). More idle speculation...
> Whatever this was, it didn't look comparable to normal
> nervousness or to someone who's temporarily uncomfortable or
> jittery.
So he was someone who looked like he was always nervous
and uncomfortable and jittery.
> I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's the
> best I can do to explain it.
It does make sense, I can picture it.
> > >(and he was dressed in goofy looking slacks (I'm not sure
> > > why that was significant, but it was).
> >
> > Was he wearing a plaid shirt too? :-)
>
> I don't remember what kind of shirt he was wearing. And I didn't
> even bother to check out his butt :-)
That is interesting. If he had a perfect butt it would not have
mattered because you didn't bother to check it out. :-)
> > > To tell ya the truth,
> > > there was something somewhat repulsive about him that i couldn't
> > > quite put my finger on.
> > Sometimes I find myself thinking that this person before me reminds
> > me of someone else I know. The scary part is how often these instant
> > impressions are right.
>
> Yeah. I'm often amazed at how accurate a lot of my first
> impressions are. Of course, this could be due to some sort of
> self-fulfilling prophecy (I expect 'em to be a certain way, and
> then I go on to interpret them in that way, even when that
> interpretation doesn't quite fit)... but I don't think so.
I find when I ignore my first impressions it comes back to bite me
in an unpleasant way. Lately my first impressions have been mostly
good.
> > > I found him more unappealing than his
> > > bad-looks alone should have made him. I think he had repulsive
> > > body language or something.
> >
> > Repulsive body language? Gollum-like?
> >
> > > He also seemed to have an
> > > unwarranted sense of superiority.
> >
> > Aristocratic bearing? Perhaps he thought of her as uneducated.
> > A professor or a doctor maybe who had imported this girl who
> > had perhaps only finished high school. Which may be equivalent
> > to someone who finished an undergrad degree over here in many
> > cases.
>
> I find that an unwarranted sense of superiority is one of the
> surest signs of inferiority.
That is so true. That unwarranted sense of superiority is also
a way to keep people at a distance so they can't see the truth
of that inferiority. Their perceived superiority is a built-in
excuse for the natural dislike such "superior" people generate.
Everyone is just "jealous" of them. We all have our virtues and
our vices.
> > > I dunno. I did not like him,
> > > but he didn't seem like a miserable tyrant that would beat the girl
> > > up or anything. He was nice enough to bring her to the amusement
> > > park.
> >
> > Perhaps that was her choice not his. Was there any other sign
> > of niceness beyond his presence at the amusement park with her?
>
> No.
>
> > > The woman looked young (I'd guess late teens or early twenties).
> > > She was cute. Kinda the voluptuous type. She was dressed real
> > > cute, sorta like a typical high school girl would dress, and she
> > > seemed like a rather pleasant person. She was reading some of
> > > the signs for the various rides that were around her, and when
> > > she came across a word she didn't know she'd ask the guy what the
> > > word meant. The guy answered her questions in a VERY ANNOYED
> > > tone of voice (like he thought she was stupid or something).
> >
> > He's a psychic vampire. Warming his bones on her fire. Stealing
> > her energy and light. Leaving her drained eventually. I found a
> > neat book on such vampires on boxing day at the bookstore
> > but the lines were so long I hid it among the computer books
> > and went on to do some shopping in the mall intending to return
> > and retrieve it later when the crowd thinned out. When I returned
> > it was scooped by someone else even though I hid it well.
>
> That sucks.
I'll find it again eventually. It had some neat sig-file quality
quotes. I tried to find it on Amazon.com but was unsuccessful. Next
time I'm at the mall I'll ask them to order it for me if I remember.
There are more interesting books than there is time to read them.
> > Actually every Russian male that I've met had this air. They also
> > wore funny looking pants. Maybe she just thought that he was being
> > a typical male. I haven't met any Russian women curiously. Its one
> > of the reasons that I so enjoyed beating Russians when I useta play
> > chess on a regular basis. It so pissed them off to lose to a
> > non-Russian. Tee hee hee.
>
> I used to play chess when I was a kid. I was never very good at
> it, but I used to play with this boy who lived down the street and
> he was even less good, so I regularly beat him. When my dad
> noticed this, he told me that I needed to stop beating boys at
> chess cuz this wouldn't be a good habit to continue when I got
> older (he basically said that guys can't handle being beaten at
> something like chess, by a girl).
Too bad he told you that. You coulda destroyed the self-image
of a few bitterboys along the way. ;-)
> I was eleven years old when he
> told me this. Maybe he was just kidding, but I didn't think so
> at the time. I remember this sort of upset me. I kind of
> expected him to be proud of me for being good at something.
> Anyway, shortly after that I quit playing chess. I couldn't see any
> point in playing a competitive game if I didn't play to win WIN WIN!!
Chess is a search for truth. You can't find truth, if you aren't
playing to win WIN WIN!!! :-) Given that choice of playing to lose
I would have quit too. Parents make mistakes sometimes. Any one with
daughters would do well to heed the lesson in your little tale.
> I do remember that beating people at chess was pretty damn fun.
It was and still is fun especially if the opponent is very good.
You can play to win now.
> > > What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
> > > seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
> > > be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
Some people are as incapable of being miserable as others are of
being happy. We should study them carefully.
> > Perhaps he discovered that being married to the Russian babe
> > did nothing to improve his personality or his happiness or
> > dispel the clinging scent of the loser which is an internally
> > generated phenomenon and which can only be remedied by doing
> > the necessary internal work.
>
> This is so true.
>
> > <SMOOCHIES!!!>
> >
> > Crash Street Kidd, speculating about strangers you never met is fun.
>
> It sure is ;)
>
> Monica
<SMOOCHIES!!!> ;-)
Crash Street Kidd
Aaron R Kulkis
By the way...was she shipped by air freight, or general cargo ship?
Curious minds want to know!
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
Cheezits
> mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
[etc.]
> > I used to play chess when I was a kid. I was never very good at
> > it, but I used to play with this boy who lived down the street and
> > he was even less good, so I regularly beat him. When my dad
> > noticed this, he told me that I needed to stop beating boys at
> > chess cuz this wouldn't be a good habit to continue when I got
> > older (he basically said that guys can't handle being beaten at
> > something like chess, by a girl).
> Too bad he told you that. You coulda destroyed the self-image
> of a few bitterboys along the way. ;-)
Wouldn't that be redundant?
> > Anyway, shortly after that I quit playing chess.
Why? Why not just play against girls instead?
I had an ex who I used to beat at Scrabble most of the time. I also used
to beat him sometimes at computer games. He didn't seem to mind in the
least.
Sue
--
----- Before you send me spam, check out www.cauce.org -----
"It's not smart or correct, but it's one of the things that
make us what we are." - Red Green
Crash Street Kidd
>
> On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Crash Street Kidd wrote:
> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> [etc.]
> > > it, but I used to play with this boy who lived down the street and
> > > he was even less good, so I regularly beat him. When my dad
> > > noticed this, he told me that I needed to stop beating boys at
> > > chess cuz this wouldn't be a good habit to continue when I got
> > > older (he basically said that guys can't handle being beaten at
> > > something like chess, by a girl).
> > Too bad he told you that. You coulda destroyed the self-image
> > of a few bitterboys along the way. ;-)
>
Well some of them think they are da juice.
> > > Anyway, shortly after that I quit playing chess.
>
> Why? Why not just play against girls instead?
One of the girls in our club, actually the best chess-playing girl
in the city, just hated to play against girls. (She's a woman now
but she was a girl over the time frame I'm thinking of.) We would
have these big matches where the other side wanted us to play their
girl against ours but she preferred that we line up based on rating
so she could crush some male instead. Her ferocity impressed me.
> I had an ex who I used to beat at Scrabble most of the time.
What is it about cute wimmins and scrabble?
> I also used
> to beat him sometimes at computer games. He didn't seem to mind in the
> least.
>
> Sue
If he minded he probably wouldn't have wanted to play anymore.
Crash Street Kidd
H. McDaniel
>His annoyed attitude did not discourage her. She kept up her
>pleasant chatter and she kept asking him about words she didn't
>know. She seemed rather intelligent to me. He was very impatient
>with her questions, and with her chatter in general, but he did
>answer her questions. He seemed embarrassed by her for some
>reason.
>What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
>seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
>be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
She was happy because she knows she can bring her family to the U.S.
and file for divorce in the not too distant future. Happens all the
time (not just with Russians.)
-McDaniel
citizen
Thank you for sharing this.
A bit about myself - I am a 24 male, I immigrated with my parents
to this country from Russia when I was 13. I have dated very few
American women, was disappointed every time, of course I realize
the mismatch had nothing to do with the nationality, rather
with the fact that I did not emply the right criteria.
Anyway, my opinion on "Mail-order brides". It is potentially a
very bad idea. A lot of women from former Soviet bloc countries
are trying to leave the country and will use an foreigner as a Visa
to US. Not everyone, but a substantial percentage. Get married,
stay married for 2 years (the legal limit to retain citizenship
after divorce), then leave the man for someone else.
I'd like to make it clear that these women aren't necessarily greedy
gold-diggers. They are simply trying to find a better life for
themselves. It is not ethical and it is not right to marry someone
planning to gain "visa" to the country and then citizenship and
the divorce the man. I certainly would not mislead anyone.
I have seen two couples like that. I worked with the first
guy, he was in his 40s, stubborn as hell, a former marine,
worked as a manager, and ultimately moved into technical
computer work. Actually, a very cool guy to work with, very
dedicated. I respect him. He told me he was very disappointed
with American women and went to Russia to find women. Dated
a few, brought home one, who looks about 17-20 years younger than
he is. I talked to her.
The impression I got was that he did not want to use her and that
she did not want to use him, but I honestly doubt that it can work
in the long run. It is the age difference and the cultural
difference. He has seen a lot more in life than she has and
I don't think she is ready to settle down and start a family.
I honestly think that she is going to ... outgrow him, in
a sense, where she will desire more, something that he won't
be able to provide. And I would not really blame either one
of them for that. It is just the way things are. I don't think
either one of them went into this not expecting it to last,
but they will have a reality check.
He already listed his disappointments with her a couple of times.
He told me, I gave her every possible resource of learning. I
got her a computer, software, books, manuals, offered college
courses, and she just does not have the drive that I have to
study, exceed, work and make money. His actual statement
was something like "A good wife helps out financially".
And the whole time I was listening to him, I was saying, man,
you really missed the point. So you are telling me that you
got tired of American crazed-feminist psycho-bitches-gold-diggers
and then you went to Russia to seek a "old-fashioned woman"
and when you marry her, bring her over here, she wants to stay
at home and does not want to work 55 hour weeks?
????
You can't have it both ways.
If you seek an old-fashioned girl, that is what you will
get. I'd rather have someone who chooses me to the same
degree I choose her, someone assertive about life with
very determined goals. Someone who is active, nto passive.
Most Russian women I knew are either actually very agressive,
and run the household, control everything, or very submissive
and passive.
Anyway - the other couple was composed of a "country" type
late 20s early 30s boy and a 22 year old girl from Moscow.
These two, in my opinion, had an ever smaller chance of
making it as a couple. I honestly don't think that she knew
what she was getting into. He came across as someone who spend
his entire life in provincial area in Virginia. He was
a redneck-type, not that I have anything against rednecks.
I myself knew a great deal of people in Southwestern Virginia.
They are good people, they like guns and use them for hunting,
target shooting, like working on cars, building that '79
Chevy Camaro and other things rural people are known to spend
their free time on. I lived in Virginia for ten years and
actually, the rural lifestyle has its own virtues. The simplicity
of country-living, and the fact that you know all your neighbors.
But I don't think that there were on the same page about main
things. Here we have a clash of cultures, a supposedly
"sophisticated" city girl marries a rather less "sophisticated"
country boy whose interests include working on things like cars
and updating his gun collection. Actually, I liked him, he
was a very cool guy, and I would enjoy his friendship. Nothing
wrong with his lifestyle, it is just that she would rather go to
theatre and social events than spend that Saturday night
watching football with friends and drink beer. My guess is she does
not even know what football is - I didn't when I first came here.
My other fairly safe assumption is that he does not care for
fine wines or classic English literature.
But, despite all this, she didn't come here with the explicit
plan to get married, become a citizen, dump him, move on.
I think he wanted something more than a second mattress.
That's what it all boils down in dating. Being on the same page
about things that matter, age, culture, race actually do not
matter theoretically, but do in practice since it is a lot
easier to "be on the same page" with someone who is a product
of the same environment you are.
When I was a kid growing up in Russia, I didn't play sports -
I played chess, a "sport" popular in Russia. I honestly don't
get the point of popular sports in US and I don't think
I ever will. I was never conditioned during my formative
years to care for that stuff and that's the result and I
am OK with that. It is a for instance, there are lots of
other differences.
Like I have indicated, I have dated several women in my life
since I was 21, only 3-4 evolved into something approaching
a relationship. None were successful and I would not blame
either party for it. It is not the issue of "blame", rather
compatibility and being on the same page about money, politics,
children, family, religion, et cetera. People from different
cultures have different ideas about all these. I happen to believe,
coming from a poor country, that saving is a virtue, but in
America that is not devastated by poverty like third-world
countries including Russia compulsive saving might seem close
to insanity to some people, and I accept that. (Besides,
American definition of poverty is far different from
Russian definition. By American definition, 95% of Russians
are poor).
None of this means that the whole idea of bringing someone
from another country invalid. It can work, it is just that one
has to make sure that both parties are on the same wavelength
regarind the stuff that matters like religion and money
and whatnot.
Actually, I myself am currently talking to a Russian person
2 years younger than me, she is also a Moscovite, I don't know
anything about her other than what she listed in a few letters.
Her photo is cute, but I don't know what her values and fundamental
beliefs are. Being Russian, it is possible that they are close
to mine, although it is possible that they are not. I am willing
to investigate this situation and see what happens.
I understand I can be wrong about someone.
mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I saw a "Russian Mail Order Bride" Live and in Person.
> I was waiting in line at an amusement park to go on one of those
> virtual reality rides, and behind me in line there was a rather
> unlikely looking couple. The girl looked way too young and way
> too cute to be with the guy who she was with.
> The line I was waiting in was moving REAL slow, i was getting
> really bored so I started eavesdropping on this unlikely looking
> couple's conversation. I sorta checked 'em out. That's when I
> noticed that the girl was talking in a Russian accent and that
> the man was not (which made me rule out the possibility that he
> was her father).
> The man looked to be in his forties,
> unattractive but not down right ugly or anything. He was about
> average height and weight, he was balding, and he had yucky
> posture (and he was dressed in goofy looking slacks (I'm not sure
> why that was significant, but it was). To tell ya the truth,
> there was something somewhat repulsive about him that i couldn't
> quite put my finger on. I found him more unappealing than his
> bad-looks alone should have made him. I think he had repulsive
> body language or something. He also seemed to have an
> unwarranted sense of superiority. I dunno. I did not like him,
> but he didn't seem like a miserable tyrant that would beat the girl
> up or anything. He was nice enough to bring her to the amusement
> park.
> The woman looked young (I'd guess late teens or early twenties).
> She was cute. Kinda the voluptuous type. She was dressed real
> cute, sorta like a typical high school girl would dress, and she
> seemed like a rather pleasant person. She was reading some of
> the signs for the various rides that were around her, and when
> she came across a word she didn't know she'd ask the guy what the
> word meant. The guy answered her questions in a VERY ANNOYED
> tone of voice (like he thought she was stupid or something). The
> questions weren't stupid. The words she was asking about were
> words like 'riveting'. She pronounced these words pretty well,
> and i was kinda impressed with her phonics ability. I probably
> wouldn't have been able to sound out English words i didn't know
> as well as she did. I never could do that phonics shit (i was
> always more of a math-science chick, but i digress..).
> His annoyed attitude did not discourage her. She kept up her
> pleasant chatter and she kept asking him about words she didn't
> know. She seemed rather intelligent to me. He was very impatient
> with her questions, and with her chatter in general, but he did
> answer her questions. He seemed embarrassed by her for some
> reason.
> What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
> seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
> be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
George Davenport
>
> Thank you for sharing this.
>
> A bit about myself - I am a 24 male, I immigrated with my
>
> Anyway, my opinion on "Mail-order brides". It is potentially
> a very bad idea. A lot of women from former Soviet bloc
> countries are trying to leave the country and will use an
> foreigner as a Visa to US. Not everyone, but a substantial
> percentage. Get married, stay married for 2 years (the legal
> limit to retain citizenship after divorce), then leave the
> man for someone else.
>
> I'd like to make it clear that these women aren't necessarily
> greedy gold-diggers. They are simply trying to find a better
> life for themselves. It is not ethical and it is not right to
> marry someone planning to gain "visa" to the country and then
> citizenship and the divorce the man. I certainly would not
> mislead anyone.
Science fiction has long floated the idea of trial marriages.
Would there be an ethical problem if a man and woman (both of
whom value marriage and family life) find themselves to be
compatible, agree beforehand on a trial period of say two years
after which either person could initiate an amiable split, but
also agree to give it their best shot?
(That might be a real test of a Russian mail-order bride's
motives. i.e. A test of how strongly she believes that marriage
is "til death do us part".)
Among these mail-order brides there could well be women so
hardened as to plan their divorces practically before planning
their marriages. But I think most reasonable people (these
Russian women included) would be very happy to have a marriage
that works. And so would wait to see how it goes before making
any decisions about bailing out.
I think a bigger problem is that Russian women probably have an
exaggerated impression of the average American man's finances,
in part due to unfamiliarity with how we use credit (mortgages,
car loans) to finance a higher standard of living. To someone
who knows nothing of credit, a man's house and a late model car
look like 100% pure unadulterated net asset.
> I have seen two couples like that. I worked with the first
> guy, he was in his 40s, stubborn as hell, a former marine,
> [...] brought home one, who looks about 17-20 years younger
> than he is. I talked to her.
Forget about mail-order brides for a moment, especially the
young ones.
What are the marriage prospects of a single, never married,
35 year old Russian woman? Are they about the same as, or a
lot worse than, a comparable 35 year old American woman?
> Actually, I myself am currently talking to a Russian person
> 2 years younger than me, she is also a Moscovite, I don't know
> anything about her other than what she listed in a few letters.
> Her photo is cute, but I don't know what her values and fundamental
> beliefs are. Being Russian, it is possible that they are close
> to mine, although it is possible that they are not.
Best wishes. It can't be easy, being caught between two cultures.
George
--
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Bluffs/3289/index.html
12/12/98 -- added a couple of friends' photos
-- more New York Mtns photos and revised narrative
mjmo...@hotmail.com
I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
OK, this is kind of an aside, but how would you feel about a
woman who could beat you at chess?
George Davenport
>
> citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> >
> > [...] You can't have it both ways.
> > If you seek an old-fashioned girl, that is what you will
> > get. I'd rather have someone who chooses me to the same
> > degree I choose her, someone assertive about life with
> > very determined goals. Someone who is active, nto passive.
> > Most Russian women I knew are either actually very agressive,
> > and run the household, control everything, or very submissive
> > and passive.
>
> I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
> those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
I knew one man who actually married a mail order bride (Filipina).
He didn't seem to fit your stereotype, as he was a quiet, affable
and seemingly gentle six footer -- just very strongly Catholic. I
met her once or twice, and I'd suppose that she was in it to
fulfill the duties of having marriage and family as well as to bring
her family over here. She was too quiet for me to get any sense of
her feelings. They had a kid about 5 years ago, which was the last
time I saw them.
And I knew a man who went traveling in Eastern Europe as a grad
student and met a comely Bulgarian woman, who not much later married
him and moved here. That was the late 1980s, IIRC. I don't know if
that was a mail order situation or not. They were about 26 yrs old
at the time, he was kind of geeky but hip in that Berkeley sort of
way, and they seemed very happy together. Again, he didn't seem to
fit your stereotype. And she was a knockout, both in looks and in
social flair, sort of the embodiment of what one thinks of as
European sophistication.
Besides which, continental Europeans have been immigrating to the
U.S. -- and intermarrying with those of other European cultural
descent and those of earlier waves of immigration -- for some 300
years. The motivations, problems and satisfactions of intercultural
relationships are not new.
citizen
> I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
> those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
That's a component of the whole picture, yes.
I wonder why you decided to focus on that though?
> OK, this is kind of an aside, but how would you feel about a
> woman who could beat you at chess?
It would bruise my insecure male ego and I would never talk to her again.
Just kidding.
Actually, I would be delighted to associate with someone whose
mental and emotional level was similar to my own. I would be
proud to have a wife who could beat me in chess.
citizen
> Besides which, continental Europeans have been immigrating to the
> U.S. -- and intermarrying with those of other European cultural
> descent and those of earlier waves of immigration -- for some 300
> years. The motivations, problems and satisfactions of intercultural
> relationships are not new.
Good point, I could not agree more.
mjmo...@hotmail.com
citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
> > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
>
> I wonder why you decided to focus on that though?
Maybe cuz the Aaron rants are still fresh in my mind.
> > OK, this is kind of an aside, but how would you feel about a
> > woman who could beat you at chess?
>
> It would bruise my insecure male ego and I would never talk to her again.
> Just kidding.
> Actually, I would be delighted to associate with someone whose
> mental and emotional level was similar to my own. I would be
> proud to have a wife who could beat me in chess.
That's cool ;-)
mjmo...@hotmail.com
ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
> mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > If you seek an old-fashioned girl, that is what you will
> > > get. I'd rather have someone who chooses me to the same
> > > degree I choose her, someone assertive about life with
> > > very determined goals. Someone who is active, nto passive.
> > > Most Russian women I knew are either actually very agressive,
> > > and run the household, control everything, or very submissive
> > > and passive.
> >
> > I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
> > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
>
> He didn't seem to fit your stereotype, as he was a quiet, affable
> and seemingly gentle six footer -- just very strongly Catholic. I
> met her once or twice, and I'd suppose that she was in it to
> fulfill the duties of having marriage and family as well as to bring
> her family over here. She was too quiet for me to get any sense of
> her feelings. They had a kid about 5 years ago, which was the last
> time I saw them.
>
> And I knew a man who went traveling in Eastern Europe as a grad
> student and met a comely Bulgarian woman, who not much later married
> him and moved here. That was the late 1980s, IIRC. I don't know if
> that was a mail order situation or not. They were about 26 yrs old
> at the time, he was kind of geeky but hip in that Berkeley sort of
> way, and they seemed very happy together. Again, he didn't seem to
> fit your stereotype. And she was a knockout, both in looks and in
> social flair, sort of the embodiment of what one thinks of as
> European sophistication.
>
Hmmn, but did these guys complain that they had to go abroad to
find a wife because of the feminists (like the guy in Citizen's
example did)?
I think you are misinterpreting me George. I *never* said that
an american man and a foreign woman couldn't just happen to meet
and fall in love.
But come on... you have to wonder about the guys who purposely shop
the poor nations of the world for a wife. It seems unlikely that it
would be a *coincidence* that the lands where all these supposedly
"superior" foreign women are located are ALWAYS poor nations.
BTW, since I have an admitted hobby of speculating about strangers who
I've never met (a hobby I apparently share with Crash Street Kidd ;)
I'd guess that man-number-one from your examples *did* complain about
feminists. (You know, the guy who married the woman who was too
quiet for you to form an impression on. The man who looked to the
Philippines "cuz he wanted marry a Catholic".)
This is only a guess.
Monica (...who hasn't noticed any shortage of Catholics in the US)
John Fereira
>In article <369969...@pacbell.net>,
> ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
>> mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > If you seek an old-fashioned girl, that is what you will
>> > > get. I'd rather have someone who chooses me to the same
>> > > degree I choose her, someone assertive about life with
>> > > very determined goals. Someone who is active, nto passive.
>> > > Most Russian women I knew are either actually very agressive,
>> > > and run the household, control everything, or very submissive
>> > > and passive.
>> >
>> > I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
>> > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
>> > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
>> > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
>>
Doesn't it also seem kind of coincidental that those that look in
foreign lands for romance are quick to blame American women for
their failure to find a good relationship whereas there are many
men that don't feel the need to bash women and seem to be doing
just fine with the local women they meet?
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org)
Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> citizen wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for sharing this.
> >
> > A bit about myself - I am a 24 male, I immigrated with my
> >
> > Anyway, my opinion on "Mail-order brides". It is potentially
> > a very bad idea. A lot of women from former Soviet bloc
> > countries are trying to leave the country and will use an
> > foreigner as a Visa to US. Not everyone, but a substantial
> > percentage. Get married, stay married for 2 years (the legal
> > limit to retain citizenship after divorce), then leave the
> > man for someone else.
> >
> > I'd like to make it clear that these women aren't necessarily
> > greedy gold-diggers. They are simply trying to find a better
> > life for themselves. It is not ethical and it is not right to
> > marry someone planning to gain "visa" to the country and then
> > citizenship and the divorce the man. I certainly would not
> > mislead anyone.
>
>
> Would there be an ethical problem if a man and woman (both of
> whom value marriage and family life) find themselves to be
> compatible, agree beforehand on a trial period of say two years
> after which either person could initiate an amiable split, but
> also agree to give it their best shot?
>
> (That might be a real test of a Russian mail-order bride's
> motives. i.e. A test of how strongly she believes that marriage
> is "til death do us part".)
>
> Among these mail-order brides there could well be women so
> hardened as to plan their divorces practically before planning
> their marriages. But I think most reasonable people (these
> Russian women included) would be very happy to have a marriage
> that works. And so would wait to see how it goes before making
> any decisions about bailing out.
>
> I think a bigger problem is that Russian women probably have an
> exaggerated impression of the average American man's finances,
> in part due to unfamiliarity with how we use credit (mortgages,
> car loans) to finance a higher standard of living. To someone
> who knows nothing of credit, a man's house and a late model car
> look like 100% pure unadulterated net asset.
>
> > guy, he was in his 40s, stubborn as hell, a former marine,
> > than he is. I talked to her.
>
> young ones.
>
> What are the marriage prospects of a single, never married,
> 35 year old Russian woman? Are they about the same as, or a
> lot worse than, a comparable 35 year old American woman?
Within the context of local men, almost zilch. because there
are so many more 20 year old never-married women who she has to
compete with.
>
> > Actually, I myself am currently talking to a Russian person
> > 2 years younger than me, she is also a Moscovite, I don't know
> > anything about her other than what she listed in a few letters.
> > Her photo is cute, but I don't know what her values and fundamental
> > beliefs are. Being Russian, it is possible that they are close
> > to mine, although it is possible that they are not.
>
> Best wishes. It can't be easy, being caught between two cultures.
>
> George
> --
> http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Bluffs/3289/index.html
> 12/12/98 -- added a couple of friends' photos
> -- more New York Mtns photos and revised narrative
--
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <36999225.0@calwebnnrp>,
> citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> > > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> > > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
> >
> > I wonder why you decided to focus on that though?
>
> Maybe cuz the Aaron rants are still fresh in my mind.
Quit with the slander, MJ...
Anyone can reject anybody else at any time...
What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or
even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
are psychotic.
>
> > > OK, this is kind of an aside, but how would you feel about a
> > > woman who could beat you at chess?
> >
> > It would bruise my insecure male ego and I would never talk to her again.
> > Just kidding.
> > Actually, I would be delighted to associate with someone whose
> > mental and emotional level was similar to my own. I would be
> > proud to have a wife who could beat me in chess.
>
> That's cool ;-)
>
> Monica
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <369969...@pacbell.net>,
> ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If you seek an old-fashioned girl, that is what you will
> > > > get. I'd rather have someone who chooses me to the same
> > > > degree I choose her, someone assertive about life with
> > > > very determined goals. Someone who is active, nto passive.
> > > > Most Russian women I knew are either actually very agressive,
> > > > and run the household, control everything, or very submissive
> > > > and passive.
> > >
> > > I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
> > > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> > > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> > > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
> >
I couldn't care less if Russia is rich or poor. I'm much more
interested in the woman's culture, personal values, and education...
all of which, paradoxically, are better developed in the otherwise
destitute country of Russia.
> It seems unlikely that it
> would be a *coincidence* that the lands where all these supposedly
> "superior" foreign women are located are ALWAYS poor nations.
Compared to the USA, 99% of the world is poor....so, what's your point?
>
> BTW, since I have an admitted hobby of speculating about strangers who
> I've never met (a hobby I apparently share with Crash Street Kidd ;)
> I'd guess that man-number-one from your examples *did* complain about
> feminists. (You know, the guy who married the woman who was too
> quiet for you to form an impression on. The man who looked to the
> Philippines "cuz he wanted marry a Catholic".)
>
> This is only a guess.
>
> Monica (...who hasn't noticed any shortage of Catholics in the US)
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <77d3ta$ljt$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >In article <369969...@pacbell.net>,
> > ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
> >> mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > If you seek an old-fashioned girl, that is what you will
> >> > > get. I'd rather have someone who chooses me to the same
> >> > > degree I choose her, someone assertive about life with
> >> > > very determined goals. Someone who is active, nto passive.
> >> > > Most Russian women I knew are either actually very agressive,
> >> > > and run the household, control everything, or very submissive
> >> > > and passive.
> >> >
> >> > I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
> >> > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> >> > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> >> > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
> >>
> >> He didn't seem to fit your stereotype, as he was a quiet, affable
> >> and seemingly gentle six footer -- just very strongly Catholic. I
> >> met her once or twice, and I'd suppose that she was in it to
> >> fulfill the duties of having marriage and family as well as to bring
> >> her family over here. She was too quiet for me to get any sense of
> >> her feelings. They had a kid about 5 years ago, which was the last
> >> time I saw them.
> >>
> >> And I knew a man who went traveling in Eastern Europe as a grad
> >> student and met a comely Bulgarian woman, who not much later married
> >> him and moved here. That was the late 1980s, IIRC. I don't know if
> >> that was a mail order situation or not. They were about 26 yrs old
> >> at the time, he was kind of geeky but hip in that Berkeley sort of
> >> way, and they seemed very happy together. Again, he didn't seem to
> >> fit your stereotype. And she was a knockout, both in looks and in
> >> social flair, sort of the embodiment of what one thinks of as
> >> European sophistication.
> >>
> >
> >Hmmn, but did these guys complain that they had to go abroad to
> >find a wife because of the feminists (like the guy in Citizen's
> >example did)?
> >
> >I think you are misinterpreting me George. I *never* said that
> >an american man and a foreign woman couldn't just happen to meet
> >and fall in love.
> >
> >But come on... you have to wonder about the guys who purposely shop
> >would be a *coincidence* that the lands where all these supposedly
> >"superior" foreign women are located are ALWAYS poor nations.
>
> foreign lands for romance are quick to blame American women for
> their failure to find a good relationship whereas there are many
> men that don't feel the need to bash women and seem to be doing
> just fine with the local women they meet?
Then PLEASE , PLEASE PLEASE explain why I have had perfectly
satisfactory relationships with foreign girls who are here already.
This annoying little fact completely destroys your theory, John.
I would have NEVER started looking overseas if I had not had these
FANTASTIC dating experiences with some foreign women here, in the
states.
Basically, I found that I *CAN* have a decent relationship with
a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
(that is: 1 for 10 with American women, 3 for 3 with foreign).
American women spend a LOT of time looking for fights. You just
don't realize how much until you've dated a woman who DOESN'T
think that way.
Crash Street Kidd
>
> In article <36999225.0@calwebnnrp>,
> citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > OK, this is kind of an aside, but how would you feel about a
> > > woman who could beat you at chess?
> >
> > It would bruise my insecure male ego and I would never talk to her again.
> > Just kidding.
> > Actually, I would be delighted to associate with someone whose
> > mental and emotional level was similar to my own. I would be
> > proud to have a wife who could beat me in chess.
>
> That's cool ;-)
Any woman who could beat me in chess on a regular basis would
probably be able to make the Canadian Women's Olympic Team if
she moved to Canada. I wouldn't mind. Actually there are some
really cute women chessplayers around. Irina Krush the women's
U.S champion is rilly cute judging from this week's Inside Chess
cover but she looks a bit young.
Crash Street Kidd
> Monica
Zsolt Szabo
>What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
>seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
>be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
Perhaps he had just received the bill from the agency that set them up?
;-)
--
__ || _ |
_/ __ _ |+-(_ __ _ |_ _
/__\ (_)|| __) /(_||_)(_)
George Davenport
>
> George Davenport wrote:
> >
> > Forget about mail-order brides for a moment, especially
> > the young ones.
> >
> > What are the marriage prospects of a single, never married,
> > 35 year old Russian woman? Are they about the same as, or
> > a lot worse than, a comparable 35 year old American woman?
>
> Within the context of local men, almost zilch. because there
> are so many more 20 year old never-married women who she has
> to compete with.
20 year old women aren't normally competing with 35 year old
women for the romantic attentions of a 35 or 40 year old man.
Are you saying that Russia has a lot of big-age-gap marriages
among Russians?
George
--
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Bluffs/3289/index.html
01/10/99 -- me and my nephew, August 1998
-- my English immigrant great grandmother, 1922 & 1972
George Davenport
>
> Doesn't it also seem kind of coincidental that those that
> look in foreign lands for romance
I hope you mean "look by mail". As opposed to someone who is
living in foreign lands.
> are quick to blame American women for their failure to find
> a good relationship
We know Aaron and some soc.singles fly-bys do, anyway. Do you
have any examples of people you've met in real life, to add to
the two I gave and the one Monica gave?
> whereas there are many
> men that don't feel the need to bash women and seem to be
> doing just fine with the local women they meet?
George Davenport
>
> Hmmn, but did these guys complain that they had to go
> abroad to find a wife because of the feminists (like
> the guy in Citizen's example did)?
No. The first guy (w/ Filipina wife) was a cow-orker
some years back. The second guy (grad student) was a
friend of a friend, but IIRC a product of the Berkeley
public school system.
I suppose there might be men here in Berkeley who rant
about feminists, but only in the dead of night at secret
ceremonies and even then only in whispers. ;-)
> I think you are misinterpreting me George. I *never*
> said that an american man and a foreign woman couldn't
> just happen to meet and fall in love.
I didn't say you said that. But you bring up a relevant
point, about the expectation that people will "just happen
to meet and fall in love". (I wonder if that's a Victorian
notion ...) For a number of people the "just happen to meet
and fall in love" is a rare occurrence, which is one reason
why people get into directed efforts to find romance/marriage
such as singles organizations, personals ads, online efforts,
and mail-order brides.
Have you ever given any thought to what your options would be
if you were 35 years old and either still single or divorced,
but not wanting to live alone the rest of your life, childless
but maybe wanting to have a child or two of your own? How
about 40 years old?
> But come on... you have to wonder about the guys who
> purposely shop the poor nations of the world for a wife.
Well, I would guess that some of these guys are looking for
more of a slave than a wife. Mail order brides aside, would
it bother you that someone would be purposely looking for a
spouse? Are you a believer in the idea the idea that only
"one man in a million" is the right one for you to marry?
> It seems unlikely that it would be a *coincidence* that
> the lands where all these supposedly "superior" foreign
> women are located are ALWAYS poor nations.
I've made a similar point myself, back in the days when soc.
singles' menu included Fixxer Spam with Chaney Sauce. The
Philippines and Russia seem to be #1 and #2 for mailorder
brides, and they're certainly poor compared to the U.S.
Aaron's "superiority" issues aside, would you agree that
among women in Russia you'd expect to find about the same
range of desirability as you find among women in the U.S.?
> I'd guess that man-number-one from your examples *did*
> complain about feminists.
Not that I knew about. He wasn't bitter or unpleasant,
either, at least not at work, and I was in the same group
as him for over a year and we were on a couple of special
teams together as well. I don't know about what he was
like in his home life.
> This is only a guess.
>
> Monica (...who hasn't noticed any shortage of Catholics
> in the US)
Since I haven't been to church in 15 years, and even that
was just a token visit just to hear mass in an old Irish
church, I don't have any real idea how marriage-minded Bay
Area Catholic women are.
I was on match.com, which in this area has a high percentage
of Catholic professionals, and overall their criteria (long
lists) were too unrealistic IMO.
John Fereira
>mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> In article <36999225.0@calwebnnrp>,
>> citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
>> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
>> > > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
>> > > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
>> >
>> > I wonder why you decided to focus on that though?
>>
>> Maybe cuz the Aaron rants are still fresh in my mind.
>
>Quit with the slander, MJ...
>
>Anyone can reject anybody else at any time...
>
>What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or
>even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
>but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
>make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
>are psychotic.
Could you describe some of these trivial reasons these feminist
types use to reject their husbands? I'm just trying to get an
idea of what you consider to be trivial. Of course, what really
matters is whether the feminist woman considers it to be trivial.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
Jim Dutton
Aaron R Kulkis <aku...@flash.net> wrote:
>What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or
>even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
>but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
>make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
>are psychotic.
-Jeem, Kooky go back to stretching your monkey.
========================================================================
http://www.mcs.net/~jjd
Steatopygias's 'R' Us. doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot.
Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. DoD#564. tbtw#6. s.s.m#8. There ain't no more
"There are two kinds of people, those who finish what they start
and so on..." -Robert Byrne
========================================================================
John Fereira
>John Fereira wrote:
>>
>> >Hmmn, but did these guys complain that they had to go abroad to
>> >find a wife because of the feminists (like the guy in Citizen's
>> >example did)?
>> >
>> >I think you are misinterpreting me George. I *never* said that
>> >an american man and a foreign woman couldn't just happen to meet
>> >and fall in love.
>> >
>> >But come on... you have to wonder about the guys who purposely shop
>> >the poor nations of the world for a wife. It seems unlikely that it
>> >would be a *coincidence* that the lands where all these supposedly
>> >"superior" foreign women are located are ALWAYS poor nations.
>>
>> Doesn't it also seem kind of coincidental that those that look in
>> foreign lands for romance are quick to blame American women for
>> their failure to find a good relationship whereas there are many
>> men that don't feel the need to bash women and seem to be doing
>> just fine with the local women they meet?
>
>Then PLEASE , PLEASE PLEASE explain why I have had perfectly
>satisfactory relationships with foreign girls who are here already.
Statistical anomaly.
>This annoying little fact completely destroys your theory, John.
Not even close.
>I would have NEVER started looking overseas if I had not had these
>FANTASTIC dating experiences with some foreign women here, in the
>states.
>
>Basically, I found that I *CAN* have a decent relationship with
>a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
>(that is: 1 for 10 with American women, 3 for 3 with foreign).
Basically, I found that I, and a lot of people I know, *CAN* have
a decent relationship with an American woman. This annoying little
fact kind of blows your theory out of the water, doesn't it.
So you've attempted to form relationships with 10 american woman and
there was only one that you found acceptable. Does that mean that
1 in 10 women are "decent"? No, it doesn't because 10 women is not
a significant enough of a percentage of "american women" to make an
accurate prediction. Three foreign women, even if you've had good
relationships with all three is not a significant number to indicate
that all foreign women are decent. What makes your conclusions even
more questionable is that the numbers do not agree with the percentage
of decent relationships I've had with American women. Since the
numbers are vastly different I have to suspect that there is something
that you are doing different then what I am doing that is causing
the disparity.
What you have done is encounter an insignificant sample size and begin
to form a chip on your shoulder about american women. Rather then
consider the possibilty that there might be something that *you* are
doing which is causing any problems you just project the blame upon
all american women. When a foreign woman came along that chip on
your shoulder didn't effect how you related to her because she wasn't
an American woman. Because your behavior to the foreign woman wasn't
influenced by the biases that you've created she was more receptive
to your approaches.
>American women spend a LOT of time looking for fights. You just
>don't realize how much until you've dated a woman who DOESN'T
>think that way.
Since I am 44 years old (45 on Thursday) I would imagine that I
have probably dated more women and had more relationships then
you have. In all my years of experience I can only recall one
woman that i've been in a relationship with that I might admit to
occasionally picking fights with me. Once again your experiences
with American women do not jibe with mine.
John Fereira
>John Fereira wrote:
>>
>> Doesn't it also seem kind of coincidental that those that
>> look in foreign lands for romance
>
>living in foreign lands.
Perhaps I should have phrased it as "seeking romance from someone
that comes from a foreign land".
>> are quick to blame American women for their failure to find
>> a good relationship
>
>We know Aaron and some soc.singles fly-bys do, anyway. Do you
>have any examples of people you've met in real life, to add to
>the two I gave and the one Monica gave?
Examples of what? Examples of someone that has given up on
American women and is seeking romance elsewhere? No, I can't
recall anyone I've met like that. That tells me something in
itself; most of the people that I meet don't seem to have
the problems with American women that Aaron would like us to
believe are so widespread.
Dawn O' The Dead
wrote:
>What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or
>even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
uh huh...
>but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
>make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
>are psychotic.
What reasons for opting out of a marriage do you consider "trivial",
Aaron? And please support your example with an explanation of how
feminism has anything to do with 'em...
Oh, and also provide data as to how many foreign women think American
women are psychotic and what countries they hail from.
Dawn
(inquiring minds, etc.)
-------------------------
"Either you think - or else others have to think for you and
take power from you, pervert and discipline your natural tastes,
civilize and sterilize you ." -- F. Scott Fitzgerald
Mike Given
>>>Doesn't it also seem kind of coincidental that those that look in
>>>their failure to find a good relationship whereas there are many
>>>men that don't feel the need to bash women and seem to be doing
>>>just fine with the local women they meet?
>>Then PLEASE , PLEASE PLEASE explain why I have had perfectly
>>satisfactory relationships with foreign girls who are here already.
>Statistical anomaly.
You're too kind, and probably delegate too much credit. JMHO.
>>This annoying little fact completely destroys your theory, John.
>Not even close.
Serves more to confirm it from what I can see. Unfortunately, only
time will tell.
>>I would have NEVER started looking overseas if I had not had these
>>FANTASTIC dating experiences with some foreign women here, in the
>>states.
>>Basically, I found that I *CAN* have a decent relationship with
>>a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
>>(that is: 1 for 10 with American women, 3 for 3 with foreign).
>Basically, I found that I, and a lot of people I know, *CAN* have
>a decent relationship with an American woman. This annoying little
>fact kind of blows your theory out of the water, doesn't it.
Just to make a bigger hole in the pond, I seem to do as well with both
American(ized) women as well as foreign. Didn't fare too terribly great
with the Brit females; kind of a "feast or famine" in most cases. The
Italian women, well, just - wow. I only met one non-America female when
I was in Saudi Arabia - an Aussie - and she seemed to like me just fine.
I also remember having a *very* nice few days with a visiting Japanese
girl some several years back. None of these encounters served to
convince me that women were all that much different here as anywhere
else save that I thought the exotic accents and attiudes were, umm,
well, you know - exotic. Not a big deal though, as quite a few American
females of my acquaintence have some, er, exotic tendencies as well.
Thinking in that line (not that it'd matter much), I know of at least
one recent immigrant to the US that would think Aaron is as much of a
doofus as any native-born female might.
[...]
>>American women spend a LOT of time looking for fights. You just
>>don't realize how much until you've dated a woman who DOESN'T
>>think that way.
>Since I am 44 years old
Fogey.
>(45 on Thursday)
Happy-in-advance.
>I would imagine that I have probably dated more women and had
>more relationships then you have
..had hot lunch.
>In all my years of experience I can only recall one woman that
>i've been in a relationship with that I might admit to
>occasionally picking fights with me.
I rather like women that have the fortitude for a good brawl; I find I
don't get along well with the more mousey and demure types of people
whether they be female or male. Mebbe when I get a bit more long in the
tooth I'll develop an appreciation for the attitude that would make a
good harim-female but I'm having too much fun with the current
arrangement to bother.
>Once again your experiences with American women do not jibe with
>mine.
Nor mine. Judging from Usenet content, Aaron just doesn't have any
means to deal with conflict either than running away from it or shooting
at it.
Mikey (..and even then he blames his roommate rather than himself..)
--
URL http://linux.onix.com/~wowbaggr
ICQ # 4965610
George Davenport
>
> aku...@flash.net wrote:
> >Basically, I found that I *CAN* have a decent relationship with
> >a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
> >(that is: 1 for 10 with American women, 3 for 3 with foreign)
Past performance is an indicator of future results, barring any
effort at change.
> Since I am 44 years old (45 on Thursday)
Well, Happy Birthday!
George Davenport
>
> ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
[snip to just the mail order situation]
> >We know Aaron and some soc.singles fly-bys do, anyway. Do you
> >have any examples of people you've met in real life, to add to
> >the two I gave and the one Monica gave?
>
> Examples of what?
Any couples where the wife was more or less a mail order bride.
> Examples of someone that has given up on American women and is
> seeking romance elsewhere? No, I can't recall anyone I've met
> like that. That tells me something in itself; most of the people
> that I meet don't seem to have the problems with American women
> that Aaron would like us to believe are so widespread.
Do single people you meet who want to be married have a hard time
finding a spouse?
aogi...@my-dejanews.com
>
> What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
> seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
> be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
>
>
Monica,
I saw something very similar recently. Older guy, not bad looking but heavy
and balding, with a drop-dead gorgeous bombshell. I didn't get a feel for her
nationality; didn't have time to eavesdrop. But they seemed happy enough.
What made me think she was a mail order bride?
1. She didn't look at all like the guy (not his daughter)
2. She was dressed really sexy, like he was showing her off. Some girls don't
look like their fathers, but few fathers would take their daughters out like
this girl was dressed.
As for the couple you describe, it sounds like the girl was really sweet.
Sooner or later if they guy keeps acting like that she'll get tired of him.
Russian girls can be real sweet, but a prick is a prick. She won't put up
with it forever.
-og
Matt Kennel
:I would have NEVER started looking overseas if I had not had these
:FANTASTIC dating experiences with some foreign women here, in the
:states.
:Basically, I found that I *CAN* have a decent relationship with
:a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
Thanks for providing the numbers. This suggests a statistical test
to see whether difference in proportions is significant, the null hypothesis
being that the "Underlying compatibility probability" is independent of
origin.
Set up a 2x2 contingency table
3 1 | success
0 9 | failure
-----------
foreign local
and we can apply "Fisher's exact test", an exact combinatorial
hypothesis test, similar to a chi-squared test, but valid for small
numbers of data.
The above data give a 1-sided likelihood probability of p=1.40%.
Meaning that the probability that he would have observed data like
these or worse under the null that the rate of successes is
independent of origin (and assuming unbiased sampling) is less than
2%.
For 'everyday' human experience, this rejects the null hypothesis.
In plain language, if Joe Netnewser dismissed Aaron as being "just
unlucky", then Joe would be right but 1.4% of the time.
:Aaron R. Kulkis
:Unix Systems Engineer
:ICQ # 3056642
Should this go under the "see how useless is a PhD thread?" ;)
--
* Matthew B. Kennel/Institute for Nonlinear Science, UCSD
*
* "do || !do; try: Command not found"
* /sbin/yoda --help
Angela C. Lukach
Aaron R Kulkis (aku...@flash.net) writes:
> What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or even DO chose
> to reject the same man whom they have married, but, the TRIVIAL reasons
> for which they do so...
oooh, so *now* the kook is claiming that the *women* reject the men
and that he KNOWS the reasons they do so.
why don't you tell us *all* about it?
--
Breed of the Month - Alentejana!
The Cow Palace is moving soon!
Angela C. Lukach
Zsolt Szabo (zsz...@wam.umd.edu) writes:
> In article <76dt89$5d4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <mjmo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
>>be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
>
marry me?
angie
Daniel Mocsny
>
> Zsolt Szabo (zsz...@wam.umd.edu) writes:
> > In article <76dt89$5d4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <mjmo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>What struck me as really weird about the couple was that she
> >>seemed a lot happier than he did. I would have expected him to
> >>be ecstatic and her to be miserable. It was really weird.
> >
> > Perhaps he had just received the bill from the agency that set them up?
>
> marry me?
Can you name an introduction agency, international or domestic,
that does not require advance payment?
--
--- Daniel J. Mocsny
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Hmmn, but did these guys complain that they had to go
> > abroad to find a wife because of the feminists (like
> > the guy in Citizen's example did)?
>
> some years back. The second guy (grad student) was a
> friend of a friend, but IIRC a product of the Berkeley
> public school system.
>
> I suppose there might be men here in Berkeley who rant
> about feminists, but only in the dead of night at secret
> ceremonies and even then only in whispers. ;-)
>
> > said that an american man and a foreign woman couldn't
> > just happen to meet and fall in love.
>
> point, about the expectation that people will "just happen
> to meet and fall in love". (I wonder if that's a Victorian
> and fall in love" is a rare occurrence, which is one reason
> why people get into directed efforts to find romance/marriage
> such as singles organizations, personals ads, online efforts,
> and mail-order brides.
>
> Have you ever given any thought to what your options would be
> if you were 35 years old and either still single or divorced,
> but not wanting to live alone the rest of your life, childless
> but maybe wanting to have a child or two of your own? How
> about 40 years old?
>
> > purposely shop the poor nations of the world for a wife.
>
> more of a slave than a wife. Mail order brides aside, would
> it bother you that someone would be purposely looking for a
> spouse? Are you a believer in the idea the idea that only
> "one man in a million" is the right one for you to marry?
>
> > the lands where all these supposedly "superior" foreign
> > women are located are ALWAYS poor nations.
The women in Russia DON'T consider themselves to be "poor",
any more than your great grandparents considered themselves
to be poor, even though they were without central heating
and TV sets and remote-control autombile locks.
Actually, the BIGGEST factor is that Russia has a severe
shortage of marriage-quality men for the quantity of women.
It's more a matter of demographics.
In the US, I would say that there is a shortage of marriage-
quality women for the quantity of men.
THEREIN lies the rub. Why kill myself playing dating-roulette
here when overseas is virtually a "sure thing".
The guys in Russia, quite frankly, have more women than
they know what to do with..(due to variations in birth-rates,
and a culture where women marry men who are 10-20 years
older than themselves)
>
> I've made a similar point myself, back in the days when soc.
> singles' menu included Fixxer Spam with Chaney Sauce. The
> Philippines and Russia seem to be #1 and #2 for mailorder
> brides, and they're certainly poor compared to the U.S.
>
> Aaron's "superiority" issues aside, would you agree that
> among women in Russia you'd expect to find about the same
> range of desirability as you find among women in the U.S.?
>
> > I'd guess that man-number-one from your examples *did*
> > complain about feminists.
>
> Not that I knew about. He wasn't bitter or unpleasant,
> either, at least not at work, and I was in the same group
> as him for over a year and we were on a couple of special
> teams together as well. I don't know about what he was
> like in his home life.
>
> > This is only a guess.
> >
> > Monica (...who hasn't noticed any shortage of Catholics
> > in the US)
>
> Since I haven't been to church in 15 years, and even that
> was just a token visit just to hear mass in an old Irish
> church, I don't have any real idea how marriage-minded Bay
> Area Catholic women are.
>
> I was on match.com, which in this area has a high percentage
> of Catholic professionals, and overall their criteria (long
> lists) were too unrealistic IMO.
>
> George
> --
> http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Bluffs/3289/index.html
> 01/10/99 -- me and my nephew, August 1998
> -- my English immigrant great grandmother, 1922 & 1972
--
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <369ACE82...@flash.net>,
> >even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
> >are psychotic.
>
Detroit is a veritable United Nations of au pairs (due to the
auto industry). I meet and talk with a LOT of them on a weekend
night in Royal Oak.
I'm just repeating what they say, loser.
Aaron R Kulkis
> :Unix Systems Engineer
> :ICQ # 3056642
>
Thank you, Matthew, for injecting some sense into this thread.
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:23:28 GMT, Aaron R Kulkis <aku...@flash.net>
> wrote:
>
> >What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or
> >even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
>
>
> >but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
> >are psychotic.
>
> Aaron? And please support your example with an explanation of how
> feminism has anything to do with 'em...
I'm sure you can think of many.
>
> Oh, and also provide data as to how many foreign women think American
> women are psychotic and what countries they hail from.
Should I start carrying a notebook every time I go out on the
weekend? No...I don't think I need to do so for YOUR satisfaction.
Aaron R Kulkis
> > for which they do so...
>
> oooh, so *now* the kook is claiming that the *women* reject the men
> and that he KNOWS the reasons they do so.
>
> why don't you tell us *all* about it?
I worked in the Analysis section at GM Powertrain, Warren Tech Center.
Fully 50% of the men were single, despite having MS's and PhD's in
Engineering. I took a poll..."Why, with all of the money, education,
and basic good manners that you have...why are you still single?"
75% of the men in that group said "Afraid of divorce" or some
variation on that theme.
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <369ACE82...@flash.net>, aku...@flash.net wrote:
> >mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <36999225.0@calwebnnrp>,
> >> citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> >> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
> >> > > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> >> > > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> >> > > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
> >> >
> >> > That's a component of the whole picture, yes.
> >> > I wonder why you decided to focus on that though?
> >>
> >> Maybe cuz the Aaron rants are still fresh in my mind.
> >
> >Quit with the slander, MJ...
> >
> >Anyone can reject anybody else at any time...
> >
> >even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
> >are psychotic.
>
> types use to reject their husbands? I'm just trying to get an
> idea of what you consider to be trivial. Of course, what really
> matters is whether the feminist woman considers it to be trivial.
Oh...I woke up one morning, and just wasn't in love anymore.
In MOST of the world, this is considered to be a normal, TEMPORARY
condition in a marriage. Nobody can maintain a "Happy Happy, Joy Joy"
attitude about their spouse EVERY SINGLE DAY for 50 years. EVERY
relationship has it's ups and downs.
Mature people accept this, and deal with it.
American women, on the other hand, run IMMEDIATELY for the
lawyers' offices....no matter to the harm that divorce causes
to the children....
>
> John Fereira
> ja...@cornell.edu
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> Aaron R Kulkis wrote:
> >
> > George Davenport wrote:
> > >
> > > Forget about mail-order brides for a moment, especially
> > > the young ones.
> > >
> > > What are the marriage prospects of a single, never married,
> > > 35 year old Russian woman? Are they about the same as, or
> > > a lot worse than, a comparable 35 year old American woman?
> >
> > Within the context of local men, almost zilch. because there
> > are so many more 20 year old never-married women who she has
> > to compete with.
>
> 20 year old women aren't normally competing with 35 year old
> women for the romantic attentions of a 35 or 40 year old man.
>
> Are you saying that Russia has a lot of big-age-gap marriages
> among Russians?
Yes, it's very common in the culture.
A man with a woman 20 years his junior is not uncommon.
I've seen it first hand.
Dawn O' The Dead
>> >but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
>> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
>> >are psychotic.
So I asked:
>> What reasons for opting out of a marriage do you consider "trivial",
>> Aaron? And please support your example with an explanation of how
>> feminism has anything to do with 'em...
And he responded:
>I'm sure you can think of many.
>
I also asked:
>> Oh, and also provide data as to how many foreign women think American
>> women are psychotic and what countries they hail from.
>
And he replied:
>Should I start carrying a notebook every time I go out on the
>weekend? No...I don't think I need to do so for YOUR satisfaction.
So you refuse to back up your statements then?
Quel surprise.
Dawn
Jim Dutton
>> >even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
>> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
>> >are psychotic.
>>
>
>Detroit is a veritable United Nations of au pairs (due to the
>auto industry). I meet and talk with a LOT of them on a weekend
>night in Royal Oak.
>I'm just repeating what they say, loser.
automobiles.
*snork*
Raving lunatic.
And as far as women of the world...read 18 year old girls out of
the house for there first time.....they set the standards and define
women of the world. Not surprising you'd be sniffing around the
gullible. Aaron Kooky Kulkiss meets and talks with lots of women on
weekend nights. And I have a private jet airplane and a ten foot dick.
By the way parasite I subscribe to RWL so you can drop the bullshit
about Irina.
Don't forget gimpboy. We have a date in may. You can show me your clerk
moves. And I can watch you simper.
-Jeem, Kooky the phoney pals up with welchboy the phoney. Life is so mysterious.
========================================================================
http://www.mcs.net/~jjd
Steatopygias's 'R' Us. doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot.
Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. DoD#564. tbtw#6. s.s.m#8. There ain't no more
"Moral indignation is in most cases 2 percent moral, 48 percent indignat
ion and 50 percent envy." -- Vittorio De Sica
========================================================================
Charlotte L. Blackmer
George Davenport <ging...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>citizen wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for sharing this.
>>
>> A bit about myself - I am a 24 male, I immigrated with my
>> parents to this country from Russia when I was 13. [...]
(SNIP opinion for brevity)
>Science fiction has long floated the idea of trial marriages.
>Would there be an ethical problem if a man and woman (both of
>whom value marriage and family life) find themselves to be
>compatible, agree beforehand on a trial period of say two years
>after which either person could initiate an amiable split, but
>also agree to give it their best shot?
Not just science fiction!
Under Brehon law in Ireland, marriages were renewable year to year. Drove
the RCs crazy, of course. (Especially since the Irish, like the Welsh -
probably other celts as well - didn't get all worked up about
illegitimacy.)
>(That might be a real test of a Russian mail-order bride's
> motives. i.e. A test of how strongly she believes that marriage
> is "til death do us part".)
I didn't get the impression from the Russians I know that divorce was a
big stigma thing in the FSU. Perhaps "citizen" or someone else
knowledgeable can elaborate?
I know I've seen at least one personal ad in here from an American guy
looking for at least that - got the impression he wouldn't have minded if
it worked out for longer but he would have been content with a good
short-term marriage.
>Among these mail-order brides there could well be women so
>hardened as to plan their divorces practically before planning
>their marriages. But I think most reasonable people (these
>Russian women included) would be very happy to have a marriage
>that works. And so would wait to see how it goes before making
>any decisions about bailing out.
Yup.
>I think a bigger problem is that Russian women probably have an
>exaggerated impression of the average American man's finances,
>in part due to unfamiliarity with how we use credit (mortgages,
>car loans) to finance a higher standard of living. To someone
>who knows nothing of credit, a man's house and a late model car
>look like 100% pure unadulterated net asset.
Livin' large...yes, by Russian standards, indeed. But it takes a lot of
hard work.
And most people aren't going to say "I'm in debt up to my eyeballs" to a
hot prospective ;-)
CLB
------------------------------------------------------
Charlotte L. Blackmer http://www.rahul.net/clb
Berkeley Farm and Pleasure Palace (under construction)
Junk (esp. commercial) email review rates: $250 US ea
Charlotte L. Blackmer
>
>Thank you for sharing this.
>
>A bit about myself - I am a 24 male, I immigrated with my parents
>American women, was disappointed every time, of course I realize
>the mismatch had nothing to do with the nationality, rather
>with the fact that I did not emply the right criteria.
You are very perceptive to realize this. My compliments.
>Anyway, my opinion on "Mail-order brides". It is potentially a
>very bad idea. A lot of women from former Soviet bloc countries
>are trying to leave the country and will use an foreigner as a Visa
>to US. Not everyone, but a substantial percentage. Get married,
>stay married for 2 years (the legal limit to retain citizenship
>after divorce), then leave the man for someone else.
>the divorce the man.
I can't really blame them (like you can't).
>I have seen two couples like that. I worked with the first
>guy
(snip deep background)
>He already listed his disappointments with her a couple of times.
>He told me, I gave her every possible resource of learning. I
>got her a computer, software, books, manuals, offered college
>courses, and she just does not have the drive that I have to
>study, exceed, work and make money. His actual statement
>was something like "A good wife helps out financially".
Welcome to the 199Os. ;-)
>And the whole time I was listening to him, I was saying, man,
>you really missed the point. So you are telling me that you
>got tired of American crazed-feminist psycho-bitches-gold-diggers
>and then you went to Russia to seek a "old-fashioned woman"
>and when you marry her, bring her over here, she wants to stay
>at home and does not want to work 55 hour weeks?
Go figure.
>????
>You can't have it both ways.
No kidding. (I had to laugh. He probably doesn't like eeevil feminazi
'murkan career women, huh??? ;-)
Careful what you ask for, you may get it ;-)
>Anyway - the other couple was composed of a "country" type
>late 20s early 30s boy and a 22 year old girl from Moscow.
>These two, in my opinion, had an ever smaller chance of
>making it as a couple. I honestly don't think that she knew
>what she was getting into.
>But I don't think that there were on the same page about main
>things. Here we have a clash of cultures, a supposedly
>"sophisticated" city girl marries a rather less "sophisticated" country
>boy.
[culture clash and why it probably isn't going to work, deleted]
>But, despite all this, she didn't come here with the explicit
>plan to get married, become a citizen, dump him, move on.
Good on her.
>I think he wanted something more than a second mattress.
Beg pardon?
>That's what it all boils down in dating. Being on the same page
>about things that matter, age, culture, race actually do not
>matter theoretically, but do in practice since it is a lot
>easier to "be on the same page" with someone who is a product
>of the same environment you are.
>Like I have indicated, I have dated several women in my life
>since I was 21, only 3-4 evolved into something approaching
>a relationship. None were successful and I would not blame
>either party for it. It is not the issue of "blame", rather
>compatibility and being on the same page about money, politics,
>children, family, religion, et cetera. People from different
>cultures have different ideas about all these.
>
>None of this means that the whole idea of bringing someone
>from another country invalid. It can work, it is just that one
>has to make sure that both parties are on the same wavelength
>regarind the stuff that matters like religion and money
>and whatnot.
Or realize that many cultural aspects are very different and be prepared
to work hard to overcome any difficulties.
For what it's worth, I say I have more in common culturally with a
third-generation Japanese-American or Mexican-American raised in the
Central Valley of California (where I am from) and, say, went to a UC
campus (which I did) than I do with people who have the same skin color,
general ancestry, and religion that I do who happened to go to fancy prep
schools on the East Coast ;-) That's because there are all sorts of
variants within American culture.
What annoys me about the Russian bride boosters is not the fact that they
are interested in not confining themselves to the US to "look" - not only
am I an American with a non-American partner, but I am the descendant of
a "marriage by mail*" - but the fact that many of them feel obligated
to slang all over American women while they're doing so. Charmed, I'm
sure. No wonder they seem to have attracted Psycho Bitches from Hell;
the sane ones know Nature's Warning Signs and tend to stay away.
ObSheesh: Sheesh.
Of course, the "Russian bride" spam that comes into my mailbox is amusing,
especially since I have always posted as "Charlotte L. Blackmer". I have
to think, "are lobbying services included in the fee? what about airfare
to Hawaii?"
* My great-great-grandmother, also named Charlotte, was thirty and
single on the Isle of Jersey. (That was a little long in the tooth by the
standards of the day.) My great-great-grandfather, who was a Jerseyman,
had a ranch in California and had just lost his (American) wife in
childbirth. The families "fixed them up".
Thanks for your perspective and I hope someone "clicks" for you in the not
too distant future. ;-)
John Fereira
>John Fereira wrote:
>>
>> aku...@flash.net wrote:
>> >a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
>
>Past performance is an indicator of future results, barring any
>effort at change.
If I decide to flip a coin 10,000 times what are the odds that
it would come up "tails" all 10,000 times if the first three flips
happened to come up as "tails"?
Aaron is attempting to draw conclusions about hundreds of millions
of women based on a sample size of 13.
>
>> Since I am 44 years old (45 on Thursday)
>
>Well, Happy Birthday!
Thanks.
John Fereira
>
>[snip to just the mail order situation]
>
>> >We know Aaron and some soc.singles fly-bys do, anyway. Do you
>> >have any examples of people you've met in real life, to add to
>> >the two I gave and the one Monica gave?
>>
>> Examples of what?
>
>Any couples where the wife was more or less a mail order bride.
I know of one such couple. She was from the Philipines and met
the guy when he was in the service. I haven't seen them in quite
a few years but after only a year in the states they began to have
marital problems. I'm not about to draw any conclusions about
Philipine women in general from that one case though.
>
>> Examples of someone that has given up on American women and is
>> seeking romance elsewhere? No, I can't recall anyone I've met
>> like that. That tells me something in itself; most of the people
>> that I meet don't seem to have the problems with American women
>> that Aaron would like us to believe are so widespread.
>
>Do single people you meet who want to be married have a hard time
>finding a spouse?
That's not something that I would normally ask someone but I don't
think "finding a spouse", at least the *right* spouse is easy. However,
most of the single people I meet don't bash american women either.
>George
John Fereira
>Matt Kennel wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:28:27 GMT, Aaron R Kulkis <aku...@flash.net> wrote:
>> :I would have NEVER started looking overseas if I had not had these
>> :FANTASTIC dating experiences with some foreign women here, in the
>> :states.
>> :
>> :a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
Probabilty analysis snipped.
>Thank you, Matthew, for injecting some sense into this thread.
Let's see if you can make sense of this:
I could easily come up with 13 women in which my experience vastly
disgrees with yours. Tell me why your 13 women are a more accurate
predictor of the behavior of hundreds of million of women then the
13 women I've encounter are.
A few years ago I went out to a pub to play darts. In one of the
games I played I started of throwing ten bulls eyes in a row. Did
every dart I throw that night hit a bulls eye. No, not even close.
If you threw the same number of darts that I did that night would
you end up hitting the bulls eye with the same percentage that I
did? That's highly unlikely because my skill at throwing darts
is probably different then yours.
Your conclusions are based on a scenario similar to that evening
of dart playing. The fact that you went 1 for 9 dating in quality
experiences with American women is not an accurate predictor of
what kind of experience you'd have when extrapolated to a population of
over 135 million women in the U.S. (based on 1998 U.S. Census
total population predictions).
More importantly it is not an accurate predictor of the kind
of experience that I or any other man would have with American
women. Like different skill levels when throwing darts, how
a woman reacts to you, me or any other men depends significantly
on the man's behavior.
Daniel Mocsny
> I could easily come up with 13 women in which my experience vastly
> disgrees with yours. Tell me why your 13 women are a more accurate
> predictor of the behavior of hundreds of million of women then the
> 13 women I've encounter are.
Are you suggesting that your experiences are useful as a
predictor for *Aaron's* future experiences?
> A few years ago I went out to a pub to play darts. In one of the
> games I played I started of throwing ten bulls eyes in a row. Did
> every dart I throw that night hit a bulls eye. No, not even close.
> If you threw the same number of darts that I did that night would
> you end up hitting the bulls eye with the same percentage that I
> did? That's highly unlikely because my skill at throwing darts
> is probably different then yours.
> Your conclusions are based on a scenario similar to that evening
> of dart playing.
Wrong. You have thrown more than 10 darts in your life. If you
throw a very large number of darts and each throw has a given
probability of scoring a bullseye, then you can calculate the
frequency that "runs" of bullseyes will appear somewhere in
your throwing sequence as a function of run length.
Stephen Jay Gould published an essay where he similarly analyzed
hitting streaks in baseball. Given a batter's average you can
predict the odds that the batter will have a hitting streak of
a given length. Joe DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak is so
long that it is very improbable even for a .400 hitter. Since we
don't even have any .400 hitters now it seems very unlikely that
the 56-game record will fall any time soon.
If you only throw 10 darts and all of them are bullseyes, then
your bullseye rate looks like 1.000 from the available data.
> The fact that you went 1 for 9 dating in quality
> experiences with American women is not an accurate predictor of
> what kind of experience you'd have when extrapolated to a population of
> over 135 million women in the U.S. (based on 1998 U.S. Census
> total population predictions).
You misspelled "females." Not all of them are women yet. And most
of them aren't in Aaron's target age cohort, not to mention a lot
of other demographic variables that he probably selects for.
And Aaron doesn't have much time. He might not date more than
another dozen or two women if he remains single and actively
trying to date until he stops dating. (Whether due to death or
advancing age rendering him "undate-able.")
The Law of Averages suggests that whatever kind of women Aaron
has been attracted to in the past are probably more similar to
than different from the kind of women he will be attracted to
in the future. This is why most people do not experience dramatic
changes in their relationship success unless something equally
dramatic changes their attractiveness to M.O.T.O.S.
> More importantly it is not an accurate predictor of the kind
> of experience that I or any other man would have with American
> women.
But it is possible for any man to get a pretty good idea of
whether his tastes in women are more like yours or more like
Aaron's, judging from the large volumes both of you write.
Also, Aaron has experience dating women from America and Russia,
and you do not (if I recall correctly).
So even if your experiences with American women are satisfactory
to you, you have no idea whether your experiences with Russian women
would be even better. (That is exactly the boat I am in: my experiences
with American women range from outstandingly great down to forgettable,
but I have no idea what sort of reception I would get from Russian
women. However, there seems to be no American man coming forward to
say he did *WORSE* with Russian women.)
> Like different skill levels when throwing darts, how
> a woman reacts to you, me or any other men depends significantly
> on the man's behavior.
With the first behavior variable being how much attractiveness
he demands in the women he pursues.
In my experience, the less attractive a woman is, the better
she treats a given man. The more attractive a man is, the
better a given woman treats him. But a man cannot vary his
own attractiveness as easily as he can vary the attractiveness
of the women he chooses to pursue. Therefore a man who thinks
women aren't nice enough to him can always aim lower on the
attractiveness scale. Or look to a foreign market where his
attractiveness is higher.
John Fereira
>Dawn O' The Dead wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:23:28 GMT, Aaron R Kulkis <aku...@flash.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or
>> >even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
>>
>>
>> >but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
>> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
>> >are psychotic.
>>
>> Aaron? And please support your example with an explanation of how
>> feminism has anything to do with 'em...
>
Both Dawn and I have asked *you* what what those trivial reasons
are. If you're going to claim that American women initiate divorces
for trivial reasons you should be prepared to back it up. To do
this you need to:
1.) I identify some reason which you believe are trivial, and
2.) Provide proof that these reasons actually occur with any
significant frequency by providing documentation from a credible source.
Unless you can do this your assertions remain unsupported and, given
the source, are more likely going to be seen for what they are; delusional
rantings from a bitter little man.
>> Oh, and also provide data as to how many foreign women think American
>> women are psychotic and what countries they hail from.
>
>Should I start carrying a notebook every time I go out on the
>weekend? No...I don't think I need to do so for YOUR satisfaction.
In other words, your claims are based only on the fact that you
want them to be true.
John Fereira
>John Fereira wrote:
>>
>> In article <369ACE82...@flash.net>, aku...@flash.net wrote:
>> >mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In article <36999225.0@calwebnnrp>,
>> >> citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
>> >> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
>> >> > > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
>> >> > > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
>> >> > > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
>> >> >
>> >> > That's a component of the whole picture, yes.
>> >> > I wonder why you decided to focus on that though?
>> >>
>> >> Maybe cuz the Aaron rants are still fresh in my mind.
>> >
>> >Quit with the slander, MJ...
>> >
>> >Anyone can reject anybody else at any time...
>> >
>> >even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
>> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
>> >are psychotic.
>>
>> types use to reject their husbands? I'm just trying to get an
>> idea of what you consider to be trivial. Of course, what really
>> matters is whether the feminist woman considers it to be trivial.
>
>Oh...I woke up one morning, and just wasn't in love anymore.
Prove that this actually happens in real life. I want to
see some actual factual data which indicates that a divorce
is granted for this reason. Since your claim is that a large
percentage of American women are psychotic you're results should
show a signifcant percentage of divorces are granted because a
woman woke up one morning and just wasnt' in love. Unless you
can do so you're just talking out of your ass.
>In MOST of the world, this is considered to be a normal, TEMPORARY
>condition in a marriage. Nobody can maintain a "Happy Happy, Joy Joy"
>attitude about their spouse EVERY SINGLE DAY for 50 years. EVERY
>relationship has it's ups and downs.
>
>Mature people accept this, and deal with it.
>
>American women, on the other hand, run IMMEDIATELY for the
>lawyers' offices....no matter to the harm that divorce causes
>to the children....
Prove it. Provide some factual data from a credible source which
describes the reasons for why divorces occur. Unless you can do
so, you should admit that this claim is based only upon your
own conjecture.
Daniel Mocsny
> In article <3698c0ba.0@calwebnnrp>, citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> >And the whole time I was listening to him, I was saying, man,
> >you really missed the point. So you are telling me that you
> >got tired of American crazed-feminist psycho-bitches-gold-diggers
> >and then you went to Russia to seek a "old-fashioned woman"
> >and when you marry her, bring her over here, she wants to stay
> >at home and does not want to work 55 hour weeks?
>
> Go figure.
>
> >????
>
> >You can't have it both ways.
True. Polygyny is illegal in the U.S.A.
> No kidding. (I had to laugh. He probably doesn't like eeevil feminazi
> 'murkan career women, huh??? ;-)
He might like having a two or three around to make good his
losses on his coterie of Russian concubines.
The arrangement would be win/win for everybody, given that the
eeevil feminazi 'murkan career women need housewives as much as
anybody else. Given that they are probably closet lesbians in
keeping with the stereotype anyway, the stage would be set for
some marvelously productive group gropes.
Perhaps it's time to consider a return to the harem concept.
American women could benefit from Russian women almost as much
as American men can.
> Careful what you ask for, you may get it ;-)
OK, I'm asking. It's not legal, but...if I get just one wish,
a profit-generating harem would be on my short list. I'll value
the worker drones for their personalities and accomplishments
and the sex slaves for the obvious.
> >Anyway - the other couple was composed of a "country" type
> >late 20s early 30s boy and a 22 year old girl from Moscow.
> >These two, in my opinion, had an ever smaller chance of
> >making it as a couple. I honestly don't think that she knew
> >what she was getting into.
Who ever does?
> >But I don't think that there were on the same page about main
> >things. Here we have a clash of cultures, a supposedly
> >"sophisticated" city girl marries a rather less "sophisticated" country
> >boy.
>
> [culture clash and why it probably isn't going to work, deleted]
>
> >But, despite all this, she didn't come here with the explicit
> >plan to get married, become a citizen, dump him, move on.
>
> Good on her.
No, that idea will occur to her later.
In much the same way, a 22 year old man who marries his high
school sweetheart is not necessarily *PLANNING* to cheat on
her when he gets to his midlife crisis.
People can be sincere now and pricks later.
> >None of this means that the whole idea of bringing someone
> >from another country invalid. It can work, it is just that one
> >has to make sure that both parties are on the same wavelength
> >regarind the stuff that matters like religion and money
> >and whatnot.
>
> Or realize that many cultural aspects are very different and be prepared
> to work hard to overcome any difficulties.
I have to wonder if the differences between Russian women and
American women are significant compared to the differences between
American men and either group of women.
Incidentally, can you explain what you mean by "work hard"? It
seems to me that relationships are one area of life where I get
to relax, be myself, and just enjoy another person without having
to "work" to make things happen.
I don't have to "work hard" to enjoy watching a movie.
Does anybody "work hard" to write terrific articles on soc.singles?
Relationships are a recreational activity. Taking them more seriously
than that is the *SOURCE* of relationship problems.
For example, most marital disagreements are about money, if we can
believe the factoid. You don't solve a money problem by "working
hard" on the relationship! No, you solve a money problem by working
hard in your job or business! Or by finding a way to cut costs.
> What annoys me about the Russian bride boosters is not the fact that they
> are interested in not confining themselves to the US to "look" - not only
> am I an American with a non-American partner, but I am the descendant of
> a "marriage by mail*" - but the fact that many of them feel obligated
> to slang all over American women while they're doing so.
Obvious marketing tactic. Before a man is going to part with
significant cash for something, he may need a mix of negative
and positive incentives from the advertisers.
Actually, however, if you look on the foreign introduction Web
sites themselves, you don't see Aaron-style slanging. That is strictly
a Usenet phenom. The Web sites simply let the photos do the talking.
And speaking as a person with the hormones necessary to appreciate
the photos from a purely aesthetic standpoint I can say they are
probably sufficient.
> Charmed, I'm sure.
Well, the simple fact is that American women create the market
for Russian women. Not all of this is the American women's fault,
of course. The lower 50% of American women cannot hope to compete
with the top 10% of Russian woman in terms of physical attractiveness
any more than they can compete with the top 10% of American women.
But to the extent that the sex migration has anything to do with the
life choices and attitudes that various women adopt, the simple fact
is that every woman could choose to be "nicer" in terms of how men
define "nice."
And if you're wondering how men define "nice" Jackie the Tokeman's
take is a very good start. A woman can hardly go wrong with sex,
sex, and more sex. (But don't take my word for it, ladies. Try
running your men ragged for the next couple of months and see if
your relationships improve.)
> No wonder they seem to have attracted Psycho Bitches from Hell;
> the sane ones know Nature's Warning Signs and tend to stay away.
Is that really what you believe? That for no obvious reason they just
came out slanging and only later discovered themselves to be high
and dry?
When I read the endless parade of women here who amuse themselves
by slanging all over loserguys (a handy and safe proxy for men in
general) I will hardly make the mistake of thinking they don't have
reasons. In some cases our femmes fatale come right out and say
where they get their hatred.
On a very deep level, virtually all women hate men for being
superficial and interested primarily in sex with the most attractive
women possible. For a woman who is physically unattractive resentment
is inevitable. For a woman who is physically attractive the same
response is equally inevitable once she understands why men are
attracted to her.
It is very difficult for anyone---men or women---to think kindly
of their opponents. Nobody likes to be evaluated by someone else's
rules even though we all vigorously assert our own right to
evaluate others by our own rules. That's the beauty of self-bias.
aogi...@my-dejanews.com
aku...@flash.net wrote:
> Matt Kennel wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:28:27 GMT, Aaron R Kulkis <aku...@flash.net> wrote:
> > :I would have NEVER started looking overseas if I had not had these
> > :FANTASTIC dating experiences with some foreign women here, in the
> > :states.
> > :
> > :Basically, I found that I *CAN* have a decent relationship with
> > :a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
> > :(that is: 1 for 10 with American women, 3 for 3 with foreign).
> >
> > to see whether difference in proportions is significant, the null hypothesis
> > being that the "Underlying compatibility probability" is independent of
> > origin.
> >
> > Set up a 2x2 contingency table
> >
> > 3 1 | success
> > 0 9 | failure
> > -----------
> > foreign local
> >
> > and we can apply "Fisher's exact test", an exact combinatorial
> > hypothesis test, similar to a chi-squared test, but valid for small
> > numbers of data.
> >
> > The above data give a 1-sided likelihood probability of p=1.40%.
> >
> > Meaning that the probability that he would have observed data like
> > these or worse under the null that the rate of successes is
> > independent of origin (and assuming unbiased sampling) is less than
> > 2%.
> >
Here is the crux of the matter, though. The sampling MUST be unbiased, or all
bets are off. Any change in condition (work here v. vacation in Russia) would
bias the sample.
I'm not saying Aaron is just right or wrong, but his limited observations are
not enough to prove anything. There may be many other factors that
contribute to his success with Russian women that have nothing to do with the
character of the women.
George Davenport
However. Advertising propaganda aside, it would have to be
about money. Women who don't put a guy's money/financial security
as first priority ordinarily aren't going to marry guys who're old
enough to be their fathers.
Under those circumstances, why not look for someone who's about 5
years younger, who has intellect and genuineness, and make her
happier than she has any reason to expect to be?
John Fereira
>John Fereira wrote:
>> I could easily come up with 13 women in which my experience vastly
>> disgrees with yours. Tell me why your 13 women are a more accurate
>> predictor of the behavior of hundreds of million of women then the
>> 13 women I've encounter are.
>
>Are you suggesting that your experiences are useful as a
>predictor for *Aaron's* future experiences?
No. I'm suggesting that his past experiences are no more an
accurate predictor then mine are. Then I'm not the one telling
the men of single so go to Russia to meet a quality woman because
most American women are inferior.
>
>> A few years ago I went out to a pub to play darts. In one of the
>> games I played I started of throwing ten bulls eyes in a row. Did
>> every dart I throw that night hit a bulls eye. No, not even close.
>> If you threw the same number of darts that I did that night would
>> you end up hitting the bulls eye with the same percentage that I
>> did? That's highly unlikely because my skill at throwing darts
>> is probably different then yours.
>
>> Your conclusions are based on a scenario similar to that evening
>> of dart playing.
>
>Wrong. You have thrown more than 10 darts in your life. If you
>throw a very large number of darts and each throw has a given
>probability of scoring a bullseye, then you can calculate the
>frequency that "runs" of bullseyes will appear somewhere in
>your throwing sequence as a function of run length.
>If you only throw 10 darts and all of them are bullseyes, then
>your bullseye rate looks like 1.000 from the available data.
Exactly. The available date is incomplete as a predictor for
future throws. BTW, the best the I've done since then is six
in a row.
>> The fact that you went 1 for 9 dating in quality
>> experiences with American women is not an accurate predictor of
>> what kind of experience you'd have when extrapolated to a population of
>> over 135 million women in the U.S. (based on 1998 U.S. Census
>> total population predictions).
>
>You misspelled "females." Not all of them are women yet. And most
>of them aren't in Aaron's target age cohort, not to mention a lot
>of other demographic variables that he probably selects for.
The only demographics he seems to select for is geographic. I realize
that not all women are in his "target range" (sic). Let's say that
only 10% are in that range. Ten women out of 13.5 million is still
a minute percentage.
>The Law of Averages suggests that whatever kind of women Aaron
>has been attracted to in the past are probably more similar to
>than different from the kind of women he will be attracted to
>in the future.
That tells us more about Aaron then it does about American
women.
>> More importantly it is not an accurate predictor of the kind
>> of experience that I or any other man would have with American
>> women.
>
>But it is possible for any man to get a pretty good idea of
>whether his tastes in women are more like yours or more like
>Aaron's, judging from the large volumes both of you write.
ROFL. Dan sez I write large volumes.
Angela C. Lukach
Aaron R Kulkis (aku...@flash.net) writes:
> Angela C. Lukach wrote:
>> Aaron R Kulkis (aku...@flash.net) writes:
>>
>> > TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so...
>>
>> oooh, so *now* the kook is claiming that the *women* reject the men
>> and that he KNOWS the reasons they do so.
>>
>> why don't you tell us *all* about it?
>
> I worked in the Analysis section at GM Powertrain, Warren Tech Center.
> Fully 50% of the men were single, despite having MS's and PhD's in
> Engineering. I took a poll..."Why, with all of the money, education,
> and basic good manners that you have...why are you still single?"
what does this have to do with what you said above?
> 75% of the men in that group said "Afraid of divorce" or some
> variation on that theme.
what does this have to do with what you said above?
you claimed that "feminist types" have "trivial" reasons for rejecting
the men they married. what are those reasons?
i guess we'll never find out from you, since you'll have to talk to women
to find out, and you know if you dare talk to an american woman she'll sue
you for sexual harrassment...
and what about men who reject the women they married for *trivial* reasons?
Frans Buijsen
> For what it's worth, I say I have more in common culturally with a
> third-generation Japanese-American or Mexican-American raised in the
> Central Valley of California (where I am from) and, say, went to a UC
> campus (which I did) than I do with people who have the same skin color,
> general ancestry, and religion that I do who happened to go to fancy prep
> schools on the East Coast ;-) That's because there are all sorts of
> variants within American culture.
Could you tell me some of those differences?
I have visited the USA in several places, mostly as a tourist. I did,
however, get to meet some people (whom I had met via what was
essentially newsgroup discussion). One of the things that always amazed
me most about Americans is the ease with which they pack up their stuff
and move to the other side of the continent.
For example, there's this couple living north of NY along the Hudson.
Within six months, after dad gets a new job, ma gets a transfer, they
buy a house in Silicon Valley, and ma, pa and two sons (10 and 8 or so)
move to Saratoga.
It took me two years to move 30 miles to Amsterdam (actually, it took
that long for the building to be built, but I digress). When I lived in
the east of this country, a full 90-minute drive from the west, my
friends from the west would complain I lived so far away.
To summarize, it seems to me that the most amazing thing about the USA
is the relative uniformity of the culture over such a vast surface.
Would you have serious trouble living in, say, New Jersey or
Philadelphia?
--
Frans Buijsen
"I would just like to thank my agent, my personal trainer, my analyst
and chaos girl without whom none of this would have been possible."
-- liner notes for a Blue Note CD
Brock Hannibal
> > third-generation Japanese-American or Mexican-American raised in the
> > Central Valley of California (where I am from) and, say, went to a UC
> > campus (which I did) than I do with people who have the same skin color,
> > general ancestry, and religion that I do who happened to go to fancy prep
> > schools on the East Coast ;-) That's because there are all sorts of
> > variants within American culture.
>
> I have visited the USA in several places, mostly as a tourist. I did,
> however, get to meet some people (whom I had met via what was
> essentially newsgroup discussion). One of the things that always amazed
> me most about Americans is the ease with which they pack up their stuff
> and move to the other side of the continent.
>
> For example, there's this couple living north of NY along the Hudson.
> Within six months, after dad gets a new job, ma gets a transfer, they
> buy a house in Silicon Valley, and ma, pa and two sons (10 and 8 or so)
> move to Saratoga.
> It took me two years to move 30 miles to Amsterdam (actually, it took
> that long for the building to be built, but I digress). When I lived in
> the east of this country, a full 90-minute drive from the west, my
> friends from the west would complain I lived so far away.
>
> To summarize, it seems to me that the most amazing thing about the USA
> is the relative uniformity of the culture over such a vast surface.
>
> Would you have serious trouble living in, say, New Jersey or
> Philadelphia?
I think that, yes, America is homogenized to a certain extent. The
common language combined with television and radio have done much.
Before that I think the relative isolation from the predominantly
European roots helped. It was a long ways to go and very expensive to
get there until the last 20 years or so. Now I see more stratification
do to educational level(whether formal or self is irrelevant) and
economic level. Oh, sure there are distinct regional variations but the
trains, then the auto, then the airpanes have cause a blurring of these
variations. Plus there is the kind of tradition here of seeking a new
start by moving(traditionally west) so people aren't as likely to stay
in the area they were raised as even 60 years ago.
No, I wouldn't really have trouble with the culture anywhere in the
urban US or Canada. Rural is another story. I was in Trois Rivieres,
Quebec which isn't a very large city and I found that not nearly as many
people there could speak English as in the larger cities like Quebec or
Montreal. I had to actually try to use my 6 years of high school and
college French. I was pretty bad but smiled a lot and wound up having
many 20 ounce bieres with the French only speaking auto mechanic that
was working on my car.
--
Brock, Wizard of Shining Silicon
Brock Hannibal
> But you'd hang out with an attractive women even if the two of
> you had practically nothing in common. People with little in
> common seem to frustrate the hell out of each other.
I made this very mistake not too long ago. Each relationship is so
unique that it's difficult to say I should have known better. She was
pretty, vibrant, young, slender and smart but she and I came form two
completely different backgrounds as far as families, didn't like the
same entertainment much, didn't like the same music, she'd never read
any of the great literature or philosophy, knew little of history...it
was doomed. I didn't want to admit it for a while but like you say we
soon became frustrated with one another and even though we had thought
ourselves madly in love at first, soon gave it up.
George Davenport
>
> citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> >
> >I think he wanted something more than a second mattress.
>
> Beg pardon?
Think missionary position. Sleep atop the first mattress,
fuck atop the "second mattress". i.e. atop the woman.
(He was looking for more than just sex.)
George, guessing
Clarice
>
> OK, I'm asking. It's not legal, but...if I get just one wish,
> a profit-generating harem would be on my short list. I'll value
> the worker drones for their personalities and accomplishments
> and the sex slaves for the obvious.
You're welcome, Dan.
You did forget to throw in the steel cage, tho.
I'm still waiting for the accessories.
I think they would go well with the sex slave girl imagery.
Since the above was pretty good, I was going to leave the rest of this
alone, but I cannot resist:
> On a very deep level, virtually all women hate men for being
> superficial and interested primarily in sex with the most attractive
> women possible.
At LEAST you said "virtually all women".
But do you *seriously* believe most women are men-haters?
> For a woman who is physically unattractive resentment
> is inevitable.
I suppose...
> For a woman who is physically attractive the same
> response is equally inevitable once she understands why men are
> attracted to her.
I understand that men are attracted to me because they want to fuck me.
Do you really think that I _hate_ men because they find me sexually
attractive?
Seriously. Do you?
Come on: Yes or No. No waffling.
> It is very difficult for anyone---men or women---to think kindly
> of their opponents. Nobody likes to be evaluated by someone else's
> rules even though we all vigorously assert our own right to
> evaluate others by our own rules. That's the beauty of self-bias.
I call it freedom of choice.
It's a great thing if you know what you want and how to get it.
C.
George Davenport
>
> George Davenport <ging...@pacbell.net> wrote:
[sniiiip]
> >Science fiction has long floated the idea of trial marriages.
>
> Not just science fiction!
>
> Under Brehon law in Ireland, marriages were renewable year to
> year. Drove the RCs crazy, of course. (Especially since the
> Irish, like the Welsh - probably other celts as well - didn't
> get all worked up about illegitimacy.)
One of these years I'll get to reading some history! Thanks.
I wonder if any state's law (e.g. Hawaii's) is sufficiently
gray as to admit a prenup clause regarding termination/renewal
of the marriage.
> And most people aren't going to say "I'm in debt up to my
> eyeballs" to a hot prospective ;-)
Not in any culture, normally, but sometimes lurve is blind.
George
George Davenport
> >> >Basically, I found that I *CAN* have a decent relationship with
> >> >a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
> >
> >Past performance is an indicator of future results, barring any
> >effort at change.
>
> If I decide to flip a coin 10,000 times what are the odds that
> it would come up "tails" all 10,000 times if the first three flips
> happened to come up as "tails"?
People remember their earlier efforts. Coins don't. Aaron's next
try with an American woman -- impeded by lots of negative baggage.
His next try with a Russian woman -- aided by the memories of
prior favorable experiences.
Crash Street Kidd
> >> are. If you're going to claim that American women initiate divorces
> >> for trivial reasons you should be prepared to back it up. To do
> >> this you need to:
> >>
> >> 1.) I identify some reason which you believe are trivial, and
> >> 2.) Provide proof that these reasons actually occur with any
> >> significant frequency by providing documentation from a credible source.
> >>
> >> Unless you can do this your assertions remain unsupported and, given
> >> the source, are more likely going to be seen for what they are; delusional
> >> rantings from a bitter little man.
> >
> >
> >*ANY* Relationship goes through times like this. You can't stay
> >"madly in love" with someone, continously, every day, for your
> >entire life. That's completely unrealistic. A MATURE person
> >realizes it, realizes that they made a commitment to their spouse,
> >and rides it out. Remember those little "vows" things...
> >Like, "In good times, and in bad". NOT EVERY DAY of a marriage
> >is going to be absolute ecstasy....that's called "life."
> >
> >
> >I've heard this reported on more occasions than I can count.
> >So, if there IS a real reason, then why aren't the women telling?
> >
> >Either they are divorcing for trivial reasons, or they are liars.
> >
> >You be the judge.
>
> OK. Case dismissed for lack of evidence. Come back when you can
> actually provide evidence other then hearsay. You're statement
> that "I've heard this reported on more occasions then I can count"
> is worthless in this court. Let's see some of these reports.
>
> >> >> Oh, and also provide data as to how many foreign women think American
> >> >> women are psychotic and what countries they hail from.
> >> >
> >> >Should I start carrying a notebook every time I go out on the
> >> >weekend? No...I don't think I need to do so for YOUR satisfaction.
> >>
> >> In other words, your claims are based only on the fact that you
> >> want them to be true.
> >
> >
> >By the way, John... remember this...
> >
> >*I'm* in a relationship which is on course to result in a
> >satisfying marriage.
> >
> >What can YOU say about your approach and your attitude that
> >you aren't getting your needs met to the same level that I am?
>
> Pay attention, Aaron. I've mentioned many times that I have been
> involved in a relationship for several years. Would you consider
> the fact that there is a copy of "Modern Bride" with lots of pages
> bookmarked on my coffee table as evidence that my relationship is
> on a course towards marriage.
>
> There is one major difference between the level on which our
> needs our getting met. I woke up next to my girlfriend this
> morning (as I do every morning). Your bride to be lives 8000
> miles away.
>
> >
> >In other words, WAKE THE HELL UP....
> >
> >Or, you can ignore me, and risk the following fate...
>
> So you're actually saying that if I, or any other man,
> doesn't follow your advice and bash American woman and
> seek romance in Russia this is what we'll have to look
> forward to?
>
> >Picture yourself, years from now...old, and grey....
Hey Aaron's time in alt.seduction.fast is beginning to pay dividends.
> I am already old and grey.
Boy that's scary how AaronDORK,... hey! Happy birthday, isn't it?
> >dying on the
> >couch in front of your TV set....and NOBODY realizes that you are
> >dead until the stench of your rotting flesh, emenating from your
> >living quarters begins to make the neighbors vomit and they finally
> >call the police. Your obituary will list no heirs,
Aaron's obituary will list Irina's and the mailman's progeny.
> because you
> >have none.
>
> Since you missed the mark in terms of my relationship status it
> is more likely that this is merely a projection of your greatest
> fear. The more likely scenario is that you'll marry Irina, she'll
> dump a couple of years after you've moved to the U.S. and you'll
> blow your brains out.
Actually he'll put a shot-gun in his mouth and try to blow his
brains out but he will miss as you can't blow out what does not
exist.
> >Do you want THAT to be the final chapter of your existance?
Nice try at stealing the Tokeman's article. Are you getting all
this anti-American woman stuff from your dad? Get some therapy
for your intense hatred of your mommy.
> >Or are you going to LISTEN to me, and realize that YOU are
> >beating your head into a bloody pulp against a brick wall,
> >as long as YOU agree with Dawn and her line of anti-male
> >bullshit.
>
> Dawn isn't anti-male, she's anti-Aaron. Huge difference.
Yeah. Eunuchs don't count as males.
Crash Street Kidd
Frans Buijsen
> Charlotte L. Blackmer wrote:
> > In article <3698c0ba.0@calwebnnrp>, citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> > Careful what you ask for, you may get it ;-)
>
> OK, I'm asking. It's not legal, but...if I get just one wish,
> a profit-generating harem would be on my short list. I'll value
> the worker drones for their personalities and accomplishments
> and the sex slaves for the obvious.
You want to be a pimp? Or do you just want to be Hugh Hefner?
> > >These two, in my opinion, had an ever smaller chance of
> > >making it as a couple. I honestly don't think that she knew
> > >what she was getting into.
>
> Who ever does?
A valid point. Most people honestly mean well and just try to make the
best of life as it hits them. They may be convincing themselves into
something or another though.
> > >But, despite all this, she didn't come here with the explicit
> > >plan to get married, become a citizen, dump him, move on.
> >
> > Good on her.
>
> No, that idea will occur to her later.
>
> In much the same way, a 22 year old man who marries his high
> school sweetheart is not necessarily *PLANNING* to cheat on
> her when he gets to his midlife crisis.
>
> People can be sincere now and pricks later.
People change. No big surprise indeed.
> > >None of this means that the whole idea of bringing someone
> > >from another country invalid. It can work, it is just that one
> > >has to make sure that both parties are on the same wavelength
> > >regarind the stuff that matters like religion and money
> > >and whatnot.
> >
> > Or realize that many cultural aspects are very different and be prepared
> > to work hard to overcome any difficulties.
[snip]
> I don't have to "work hard" to enjoy watching a movie.
>
> Does anybody "work hard" to write terrific articles on soc.singles?
>
> Relationships are a recreational activity. Taking them more seriously
> than that is the *SOURCE* of relationship problems.
A telling comment. Many people feel decidedly unhappy when not in a
relationship. I'm not one of them, so I'm not the best person to say why
this is so, but I think they need some kind of feedback on an intimate
level ("a family") to confirm or complete their identity [1].
[1] Is this something that just doesn't happen to introverted people?
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> >> >but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
> >> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
> >> >are psychotic.
>
> >> What reasons for opting out of a marriage do you consider "trivial",
> >> Aaron? And please support your example with an explanation of how
>
> And he responded:
> >I'm sure you can think of many.
> >
> >> Oh, and also provide data as to how many foreign women think American
> >> women are psychotic and what countries they hail from.
> >
> >Should I start carrying a notebook every time I go out on the
> >weekend? No...I don't think I need to do so for YOUR satisfaction.
>
No. Not at all.
I'm just challenging you to use that tiny little nerve-ganglion
as if it were a brain..
>
> Quel surprise.
>
> Dawn
>
> -------------------------
> "Either you think - or else others have to think for you and
> take power from you, pervert and discipline your natural tastes,
> civilize and sterilize you ." -- F. Scott Fitzgerald
--
Aaron R Kulkis
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or
> >>
> >> uh huh...
> >>
> >> >but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
> >> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
> >> >are psychotic.
> >>
> >> Aaron? And please support your example with an explanation of how
> >> feminism has anything to do with 'em...
> >
>
> are. If you're going to claim that American women initiate divorces
> for trivial reasons you should be prepared to back it up. To do
> this you need to:
>
> 1.) I identify some reason which you believe are trivial, and
> 2.) Provide proof that these reasons actually occur with any
> significant frequency by providing documentation from a credible source.
>
> Unless you can do this your assertions remain unsupported and, given
> the source, are more likely going to be seen for what they are; delusional
> rantings from a bitter little man.
How about "Oh, I just woke up, and realize I wasn't in love anymore"
*ANY* Relationship goes through times like this. You can't stay
"madly in love" with someone, continously, every day, for your
entire life. That's completely unrealistic. A MATURE person
realizes it, realizes that they made a commitment to their spouse,
and rides it out. Remember those little "vows" things...
Like, "In good times, and in bad". NOT EVERY DAY of a marriage
is going to be absolute ecstasy....that's called "life."
I've heard this reported on more occasions than I can count.
So, if there IS a real reason, then why aren't the women telling?
Either they are divorcing for trivial reasons, or they are liars.
You be the judge.
>
> >> Oh, and also provide data as to how many foreign women think American
> >> women are psychotic and what countries they hail from.
> >
> >Should I start carrying a notebook every time I go out on the
> >weekend? No...I don't think I need to do so for YOUR satisfaction.
>
> In other words, your claims are based only on the fact that you
> want them to be true.
Get a clue, blow hard.
By the way, John... remember this...
*I'm* in a relationship which is on course to result in a
satisfying marriage.
What can YOU say about your approach and your attitude that
you aren't getting your needs met to the same level that I am?
In other words, WAKE THE HELL UP....
Or, you can ignore me, and risk the following fate...
Picture yourself, years from now...old, and grey....dying on the
couch in front of your TV set....and NOBODY realizes that you are
dead until the stench of your rotting flesh, emenating from your
living quarters begins to make the neighbors vomit and they finally
call the police. Your obituary will list no heirs, because you
have none.
Do you want THAT to be the final chapter of your existance?
Or are you going to LISTEN to me, and realize that YOU are
beating your head into a bloody pulp against a brick wall,
as long as YOU agree with Dawn and her line of anti-male
bullshit.
>
> John Fereira
> ja...@cornell.edu
You are soooooo selfless, you qualify as an idiot.
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <369C1F...@pacbell.net>, ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
> >John Fereira wrote:
> >>
> >> aku...@flash.net wrote:
> >> >Basically, I found that I *CAN* have a decent relationship with
> >> >a woman, only that it is not very likely with an American woman
> >> >(that is: 1 for 10 with American women, 3 for 3 with foreign)
> >
> >Past performance is an indicator of future results, barring any
> >effort at change.
>
> If I decide to flip a coin 10,000 times what are the odds that
> it would come up "tails" all 10,000 times if the first three flips
> happened to come up as "tails"?
>
> of women based on a sample size of 13.
I also watch how women treat other men....ESPECIALLY their husbands.
And American women treat men worse than dog droppings.
> >
> >> Since I am 44 years old (45 on Thursday)
And still single. Yep, you OBVIOUSLY have all the answers, John.
You have 45 years of FAILURE to prove it. What a joke
> >
> >Well, Happy Birthday!
>
> Thanks.
>
> John Fereira
Destined to die alone, undiscovered, until the stench makes
the neighbors GAG....
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <369CDB94...@mfm.com>, Daniel Mocsny <dmo...@mfm.com> wrote:
> >John Fereira wrote:
> >> I could easily come up with 13 women in which my experience vastly
> >> disgrees with yours. Tell me why your 13 women are a more accurate
> >> predictor of the behavior of hundreds of million of women then the
> >> 13 women I've encounter are.
> >
> >Are you suggesting that your experiences are useful as a
> >predictor for *Aaron's* future experiences?
>
> No. I'm suggesting that his past experiences are no more an
> accurate predictor then mine are. Then I'm not the one telling
> the men of single so go to Russia to meet a quality woman because
> most American women are inferior.
Do you understand ANYTHING about the interrelationship between
CULTURE and BEHAVIOR?
Obviously not, as I have belabored the point for months.
John, either you're a damned idiot, or you are deliberately
avoiding the central issue....hopeless waste of oxygen.
It is EXACTLY men like you...intelligent, educated, literate, and
maybe "respected" by women, but never respected well enough to
actually marry...for whose benefit I post in this newsgroup...
Well, maybe you AREN'T intelligent. It's obvious that you are
passing the insanity test...that is, continouing to do the same
thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
And I come here, and say that I decided to change what I was
doing, and got a better result...and all you do is try to
discount it, rather than learn from it.
You, Mr. Feriera, are a fool.
mjmo...@hotmail.com
ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
> mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Have you ever given any thought to what your options would be
> if you were 35 years old and either still single or divorced,
> but not wanting to live alone the rest of your life, childless
> but maybe wanting to have a child or two of your own? How
> about 40 years old?
Hmmn, I'll think about this. I imagine if I was 35-40 years old
and never married, and childless, and I wanted to have a child I
would be well aware that I had to hurry up (if I wanted a kid).
This time pressure would probably make my search for a guy harder.
But if there was a group of young guys from Mexico who were
marketing themselves to older US women, and it was pretty well
understood that these men were strongly motivated by US
citizenship, I don't think I'd lie to myself about what was going
on with these men. I doubt I'd pursue these guys through some
sort of a match-up service, or by traveling there to meet them.
I guess if one of these guys lived next door to me or something,
and I was interested in him and he seemed interested in me I would
pursue it (with some degree of speculation). I guess the reason for
this distinction is that I think I would be able to better judge
someone's true motives and his true feelings for me if I could
interact with him personally on a day to day basis for a
long period of time.
Your other comment confused me. The one about not wanting
to live the rest of my life alone. I don't think I'd assume that
I was doomed to spend the rest of my life alone if I hadn't found
someone by age thirty-five. I see older people getting married
all the time. I actually recently went to the wedding of one of my
mom's friends. She's 60 (this was her first time getting
married).
> > But come on... you have to wonder about the guys who
> > purposely shop the poor nations of the world for a wife.
>
> Well, I would guess that some of these guys are looking for
> more of a slave than a wife. Mail order brides aside, would
> it bother you that someone would be purposely looking for a
> spouse?
No, not at all.
I think everyone purposely looks.
> Are you a believer in the idea the idea that only
> "one man in a million" is the right one for you to marry?
I dunno. I haven't really thought about it.
> > It seems unlikely that it would be a *coincidence* that
> > the lands where all these supposedly "superior" foreign
> > women are located are ALWAYS poor nations.
>
> I've made a similar point myself, back in the days when soc.
> singles' menu included Fixxer Spam with Chaney Sauce. The
> Philippines and Russia seem to be #1 and #2 for mailorder
> brides, and they're certainly poor compared to the U.S.
>
> Aaron's "superiority" issues aside, would you agree that
> among women in Russia you'd expect to find about the same
> range of desirability as you find among women in the U.S.?
Sure, probably.
But when you're talking about someone you'd marry, for most
people you seem to be talking about someone you know well, and
who you've spent a considerable amount of time with. Someone
you've gotten to know on a day-to-day basis. You
know how the two of you interact on a personal level because
you've spent a lot of time together. This doesn't seem to
be the case with most "mail-order-bride" situations.
Monica
Annette M. Stroud
Frans Buijsen <F.Bu...@cable.A2000.nl> wrote:
>Charlotte L. Blackmer (c...@rahul.net) said:
>> For what it's worth, I say I have more in common culturally with a
>> third-generation Japanese-American or Mexican-American raised in the
>> Central Valley of California (where I am from) and, say, went to a UC
>> campus (which I did) than I do with people who have the same skin color,
>> general ancestry, and religion that I do who happened to go to fancy prep
>> schools on the East Coast ;-) That's because there are all sorts of
>> variants within American culture.
>
>Could you tell me some of those differences?
>I have visited the USA in several places, mostly as a tourist. I did,
>however, get to meet some people (whom I had met via what was
>essentially newsgroup discussion). One of the things that always amazed
>me most about Americans is the ease with which they pack up their stuff
>and move to the other side of the continent.
[This part of the post no longer lives here.]
>To summarize, it seems to me that the most amazing thing about the USA
>is the relative uniformity of the culture over such a vast surface.
>
>Would you have serious trouble living in, say, New Jersey or
>Philadelphia?
Not that I'm Charlotte, but we move around so much that you're quite
likely to find some people with similar backgrounds wherever you go.
And the further you go, the closer the proximities of the backgrounds you
left behind. In other words, I could have stayed in West Virginia
and never met Vicki who is also from West Virginia but from a town 40
miles away from where I lived. Since I met her in Denver there are all
sorts of common experiences that we share that others do not. Had we met
in West Virginia, we might have had nothing in common at all. (Except
that we were both the type to leave West Virginia).
Not to mention, the more you move, the more backgrounds you have.
In a way.
Annette
mjmo...@hotmail.com
> In my experience, the less attractive a woman is, the better
> she treats a given man.
That's weird. In my experience, less attractive people aren't
nicer than attractive people.
Maybe you think less attractive women treat men kinder because
you wouldn't even bother hanging out with a less attractive woman
unless you two actually had something in common.
But you'd hang out with an attractive women even if the two of
you had practically nothing in common. People with little in
common seem to frustrate the hell out of each other.
mjmo...@hotmail.com
> In my experience, the less attractive a woman is, the better
> she treats a given man. The more attractive a man is, the
> better a given woman treats him. But a man cannot vary his
> own attractiveness as easily as he can vary the attractiveness
> of the women he chooses to pursue. Therefore a man who thinks
> women aren't nice enough to him can always aim lower on the
> attractiveness scale. Or look to a foreign market where his
> attractiveness is higher.
Hmmn. Is his attractiveness higher? Or is citizenship what's attractive?
P. Edward Murray
It is a good deal more difficult then you seem to think.
My Father was in retailing and we made a total of 6 moves during my 24
years. While many people move more ours were sometimes many hundreds of
miles away. While this may build character it also deprives you of
simple things...such as going to school the same people and getting to
know your relatives.
It's not at all that easy...it's just that for many years that's how
businesses operate....the more successful you are...the more you move.
Ed Murray
the tree by the river
>In article <369CDB94...@mfm.com>,
> Daniel Mocsny <dmo...@mfm.com> wrote:
>
>> In my experience, the less attractive a woman is, the better
>> she treats a given man.
>
>nicer than attractive people.
I haven't noticed any obvious correlation.
What I have noticed, however, is how much variation there is in
who and what people find attractive. (And, please, tossing out
an example of the sex-symbol-of-the-week (complete with perfect
makeup, lighting, direction, and background music) versus whoever
you think is an example of a particularly unattractive elderly
woman is not proof that there isn't a whole lot of variation in
real-world groups of people one is much more likely to meet and
interact with.)
>Maybe you think less attractive women treat men kinder because
>you wouldn't even bother hanging out with a less attractive woman
>unless you two actually had something in common.
Or it's another case of finding what you're looking for.
>But you'd hang out with an attractive women even if the two of
>you had practically nothing in common. People with little in
>common seem to frustrate the hell out of each other.
Often. On the other hand, I did have a very enjoyable relationship
with a woman I'd had very little in common with--she was quite
clear at first that she didn't want a serious relationship at that
time and we hung out together when it was fun to do so and didn't
otherwise (or when we would have started getting on each other's
nerves). I think it worked out quite well and eventually she
decided that maybe she did want a romantic relationship with more
potential at the time and we broke up so she could pursue that.
--
Soc.singles FAQ: < http://www.trygve.com/ssfaq.html > || "A minor setback..."
Personal webpage: < http://www.trygve.com > || -- Evil the Cat
Trygve Lode, president, Nyx Net, public access internet < http://www.nyx.net >
"there's nought to see except the straggling green which hides the wood" - ebb
John Fereira
>I'm not saying Aaron is just right or wrong, but his limited observations are
>not enough to prove anything. There may be many other factors that
>contribute to his success with Russian women that have nothing to do with the
>character of the women.
That's what I have been saying all along.
John Fereira
>> Both Dawn and I have asked *you* what what those trivial reasons
>> are. If you're going to claim that American women initiate divorces
>> for trivial reasons you should be prepared to back it up. To do
>> this you need to:
>>
>> 1.) I identify some reason which you believe are trivial, and
>> 2.) Provide proof that these reasons actually occur with any
>> significant frequency by providing documentation from a credible source.
>>
>> Unless you can do this your assertions remain unsupported and, given
>> the source, are more likely going to be seen for what they are; delusional
>> rantings from a bitter little man.
>
>How about "Oh, I just woke up, and realize I wasn't in love anymore"
>
>*ANY* Relationship goes through times like this. You can't stay
>"madly in love" with someone, continously, every day, for your
>entire life. That's completely unrealistic. A MATURE person
>realizes it, realizes that they made a commitment to their spouse,
>and rides it out. Remember those little "vows" things...
>Like, "In good times, and in bad". NOT EVERY DAY of a marriage
>is going to be absolute ecstasy....that's called "life."
>
>
>I've heard this reported on more occasions than I can count.
>So, if there IS a real reason, then why aren't the women telling?
>
>Either they are divorcing for trivial reasons, or they are liars.
>
>You be the judge.
OK. Case dismissed for lack of evidence. Come back when you can
actually provide evidence other then hearsay. You're statement
that "I've heard this reported on more occasions then I can count"
is worthless in this court. Let's see some of these reports.
>> >> Oh, and also provide data as to how many foreign women think American
>> >> women are psychotic and what countries they hail from.
>> >
>> >Should I start carrying a notebook every time I go out on the
>> >weekend? No...I don't think I need to do so for YOUR satisfaction.
>>
>> In other words, your claims are based only on the fact that you
>> want them to be true.
>
>Get a clue, blow hard.
>
>By the way, John... remember this...
>
>*I'm* in a relationship which is on course to result in a
>satisfying marriage.
>
>What can YOU say about your approach and your attitude that
>you aren't getting your needs met to the same level that I am?
Pay attention, Aaron. I've mentioned many times that I have been
involved in a relationship for several years. Would you consider
the fact that there is a copy of "Modern Bride" with lots of pages
bookmarked on my coffee table as evidence that my relationship is
on a course towards marriage.
There is one major difference between the level on which our
needs our getting met. I woke up next to my girlfriend this
morning (as I do every morning). Your bride to be lives 8000
miles away.
>
>In other words, WAKE THE HELL UP....
>
>Or, you can ignore me, and risk the following fate...
So you're actually saying that if I, or any other man,
doesn't follow your advice and bash American woman and
seek romance in Russia this is what we'll have to look
forward to?
>Picture yourself, years from now...old, and grey....
I am already old and grey.
>dying on the
>couch in front of your TV set....and NOBODY realizes that you are
>dead until the stench of your rotting flesh, emenating from your
>living quarters begins to make the neighbors vomit and they finally
>call the police. Your obituary will list no heirs, because you
>have none.
Since you missed the mark in terms of my relationship status it
is more likely that this is merely a projection of your greatest
fear. The more likely scenario is that you'll marry Irina, she'll
dump a couple of years after you've moved to the U.S. and you'll
blow your brains out.
>
>Do you want THAT to be the final chapter of your existance?
>
>Or are you going to LISTEN to me, and realize that YOU are
>beating your head into a bloody pulp against a brick wall,
>as long as YOU agree with Dawn and her line of anti-male
>bullshit.
Dawn isn't anti-male, she's anti-Aaron. Huge difference.
John Fereira
Daniel Mocsny
> Here is the crux of the matter, though. The sampling MUST be unbiased, or all
> bets are off.
It means the bet really is a bet.
Suppose you were in a life or death situation, for example you are
deep inside a large burning building and you have to decide between
(a) running out of the building immediately vs. (b) pausing to put on
a fire suit first.
If you knew that in previous fires in buildings similar to your own,
3 out of 3 people who put on fire suits made it out alive while
10 out of 10 people who tried to run out without a fire suit died,
what would you do?
> Any change in condition (work here v. vacation in Russia) would
> bias the sample.
But if Aaron cannot avoid biasing the sample then what you call
"bias" is actually the condition that the statistical test is
measuring.
> I'm not saying Aaron is just right or wrong, but his limited observations are
> not enough to prove anything.
His observations are enough to prove that if he keeps doing what
he's doing the odds are high that he'll continue to get similar results.
His observations are not as limited as the numbers suggest. The
women he has been able to date probably came from a much larger
sample of women. First Aaron had to find each woman attractive
enough to approach, and then each woman had to find him attractive
enough to date. So the real sample size is probably into the hundreds
when you consider all the women Aaron has gandered his eye
at but failed to approach, or approached but failed to attract.
And given the enormous overall demographic similarities between
the women in Aaron's target age cohort, the safest bet is that his
experiences wouldn't be much different if he repeated his sampling
in other parts of the U.S.A. and Russia, respectively. That is, if
Aaron traveled around the U.S.A. and hit on a lot of women, you'd
probably find a *LOT* of similarity in the kinds of women he could
attract in each area. These women would probably have more in common
with each other than they would have with other women in their own
areas.
> There may be many other factors that
> contribute to his success with Russian women that have nothing to do with the
> character of the women.
But if they have to do with the character of Aaron then the
bet is definitely still on.
--
--- Daniel J. Mocsny
Steve Chaney
>>
>> Yes, it's very common in the culture.
>>
>> A man with a woman 20 years his junior is not uncommon.
>> I've seen it first hand.
>
>However. Advertising propaganda aside, it would have to be
>about money. Women who don't put a guy's money/financial security
>as first priority ordinarily aren't going to marry guys who're old
>enough to be their fathers.
You are forgetting that some women prefer men who can be their teachers and
shortcut them through life's experiences.....a father figure, so to speak.
It's fun to watch, really.
-- Steve
John Fereira
>Charlotte L. Blackmer (c...@rahul.net) said:
>> For what it's worth, I say I have more in common culturally with a
>> third-generation Japanese-American or Mexican-American raised in the
>> Central Valley of California (where I am from) and, say, went to a UC
>> campus (which I did) than I do with people who have the same skin color,
>> general ancestry, and religion that I do who happened to go to fancy prep
>> schools on the East Coast ;-) That's because there are all sorts of
>> variants within American culture.
>
>Could you tell me some of those differences?
>I have visited the USA in several places, mostly as a tourist. I did,
>however, get to meet some people (whom I had met via what was
>essentially newsgroup discussion). One of the things that always amazed
>me most about Americans is the ease with which they pack up their stuff
>and move to the other side of the continent.
>
>Within six months, after dad gets a new job, ma gets a transfer, they
>buy a house in Silicon Valley, and ma, pa and two sons (10 and 8 or so)
>move to Saratoga.
Coincidently, there are cities (towns would be more descriptive) called
Saratoga both north of NY along the Hudson and in Silicon Valley. I
grew up 1/2 a block from the Saratoga (in Ca.) border. Silicon Valley
is geographically pretty large however and there are many different
communities within what are considered it's boundries. The town of
Saratoga is sort of on the outskirts. As far as a general atmosphere
goes living in Saratoga, Ca. would be closer to living in Saratoga, NY
then it would be living in Sunnyvale, Ca (probably 10 miles away). Even
within the state of California there is a wide disparity in geography
and culture. Living in the heart of southern California is nothing
like living in some of the northern counties or in the central valley
(which runs almost the length of the state).
>To summarize, it seems to me that the most amazing thing about the USA
>is the relative uniformity of the culture over such a vast surface.
It really isn't. Although there are large cities on both sides of
the country the range of cultures as one travels across the continent
change significantly. I currently live in a town of less then 30K a little
over 4 hours away from NYC, a city with a population of more then 8 million.
Ten miles outside of where I live it's nothing but dairy farms.
>Would you have serious trouble living in, say, New Jersey or
>Philadelphia?
Although New Jersey isn't that large compared to most U.S. States
there are some places that I could see myself living in. There are
some areas that become quite rural. Although living in Philidelphia
would not be that dissimilar then living in San Jose and they're
3000 miles way.
Daniel Mocsny
> In article <77jvn8$7i9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <mjmo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >In article <369CDB94...@mfm.com>,
> > Daniel Mocsny <dmo...@mfm.com> wrote:
> >> In my experience, the less attractive a woman is, the better
> >> she treats a given man.
> >
> >That's weird.
Admittedly, it is weird when one finds one of those rare occasions
when the behavior of women makes logical sense, but in this case
it does and they do. To some extent.
> >In my experience, less attractive people aren't
> >nicer than attractive people.
Notice how you have not-too-subtly restated my claim in a way that
makes your claim totally different.
I had to specify "a given man" because certainly a given attractive
woman is capable of being nice to a sufficiently attractive man.
Are you a man who has tried hitting on and subsequently relating to
women with a fair range of variation with respect to conventional
definitions of physical attractiveness? If not, then in what way
are you questioning my claim?
Are you a woman who is equally nice to all men? That is, if a man
expresses a desire to have sex with you, do you automatically and
courteously give him what he wants? Or do you reserve your nicest
treatment for the man or men you find most attractive?
> I haven't noticed any obvious correlation.
You might have to look a bit harder to see it, given that with
a net worth above $10 million you probably won't find too many
women who want to go out of their way to be rude to you. So what
you are probably comparing are variations in the intensity
of worship for your bad self.
> What I have noticed, however, is how much variation there is in
> who and what people find attractive. (And, please, tossing out
> an example of the sex-symbol-of-the-week
Here we go with this "week" thing again. You seem to think sex
symbols, sociobiological theories, and everything else you want
to discredit undergoes rapid variation. If I'm grasping your
implication correctly, where did you get this peculiar idea?
Certainly not by observing sex symbols and sociobiological
theories over time.
> (complete with perfect
> makeup, lighting, direction, and background music) versus whoever
> you think is an example of a particularly unattractive elderly
> woman is not proof that there isn't a whole lot of variation in
> real-world groups of people one is much more likely to meet and
> interact with.)
It's interesting that you mentioned elderly women. Do you recall what
Ben Franklin had to say about them?
Does the phrase "grateful as hell" ring a bell?
> >Maybe you think less attractive women treat men kinder because
> >you wouldn't even bother hanging out with a less attractive woman
> >unless you two actually had something in common.
Or maybe, and perhaps more boringly, it's because I have actually
hung out with women who spanned a fairly appreciable range of conformity
with the majority definition of beauty.
But hey, I know it's fun to massacre Occam's Razor so don't let me
stand in the way. Life is so uninteresting when you just take it
for what it is.
> >But you'd hang out with an attractive women even if the two of
> >you had practically nothing in common.
Most men have practically nothing in common with most women, so I
don't see how your observation matters. Are you suggesting that
I would be more likely to have less in common with an attractive woman?
Aside from the fact that she looks better than I do, how do you figure?
> >People with little in
> >common seem to frustrate the hell out of each other.
People with more options tend to appreciate a given option less.
For example, it is quite likely that Trygve experiences less emotional
pain when he accidentally ruins a possession he can replace for $500
than a very poor person would. That gives the poor person a much greater
incentive to take good care of the possession than Trygve has.
I know people for whom a $500 loss is a major life trauma.
If I gave away $500, would it mean as much to Trygve as it would mean
to a homeless person? For Trygve, $500 is a rounding error. For a
homeless person it would be enough to keep him drunk for weeks.
Now consider a very unattractive woman who has never been able
to attract a man even as objectively attractive as I am (according to
her evaluation). If against all odds I were to take a sincere
interest in her, she would clearly have much more incentive to
show interest and treat me with care and consideration than would
an extremely attractive woman who has dozens of men like me, or
better, to choose from.
People naturally value things according to how much benefit they
yield and how much they cost (i.e., how difficult they are to
replace).
We just discussed replaceability. The more attractive a given partner
is, the more difficult (s)he is for a given person to replace. The
more a person realizes this, the more incentive they have to be nice.
Are you trying to convince me that I am overestimating the intelligence
of women? I.e., that they are in the habit of acting against their own
interests?
John Fereira
>> >> I could easily come up with 13 women in which my experience vastly
>> >> disgrees with yours. Tell me why your 13 women are a more accurate
>> >> predictor of the behavior of hundreds of million of women then the
>> >> 13 women I've encounter are.
>> >
>> >Are you suggesting that your experiences are useful as a
>> >predictor for *Aaron's* future experiences?
>>
>> No. I'm suggesting that his past experiences are no more an
>> accurate predictor then mine are. Then I'm not the one telling
>> the men of single so go to Russia to meet a quality woman because
>> most American women are inferior.
>
>Do you understand ANYTHING about the interrelationship between
>CULTURE and BEHAVIOR?
Yes, culture and behavior are not tied together as closely you'd
like us to believe. You seem to think that everyone coming from
the same culture will behave exactly alike. More importantly
you seem to believe how someone behaves is more related to
culture then the behavoir of the person with which they are
interacting. You tell us that you had one good relationship
out of ten with American women. I'm telling you that the
experience that you've had with american women is nothing close
to my experience with american women. What that tells me is
that either the type of american women that you've met is
vastly different then the type of women that I've more *OR*
the difference in how you and I behave towards american different
is causing american women to treat each of us different.
>Obviously not, as I have belabored the point for months.
That doesn't make it any more valid now then it was months
ago.
>John, either you're a damned idiot, or you are deliberately
>avoiding the central issue....hopeless waste of oxygen.
The central issue in my mind is that you have been
undeservedly bashing american women since you arrived here.
If you want to tell us that we can all meet some really
great women if we go to Russia, fine. I'm not argueing
that. I'm am objecting to your attack on american women
and the implication that how you, personally, have been
treated by american women has anything to do whatsoever
with how they treat me, or anyone else that you're "advising".
You make lots of bold claims about how evil american women
are *in general* but have yet to post a single bit of evidence
which supports your claims other then you're own opinion and
hearsay. "I've seen lots of reports" means nothing unless you
can actually provide us with a citation so that anyone that
might disagree with your premise can verify that these "reports"
say what you believe they say. You can call me names and put
them in the article headers but it's not going to change the
fact that you haven't supported your claims.
>It is EXACTLY men like you...intelligent, educated, literate, and
>maybe "respected" by women, but never respected well enough to
>actually marry...for whose benefit I post in this newsgroup...
Why do you presume that I have never been married?
>Well, maybe you AREN'T intelligent. It's obvious that you are
>passing the insanity test...that is, continouing to do the same
>thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
New people subscribe to soc.singles everyday. When you post
the same idiocy regarding american women and I show them that
you're assertions are unsupported the result *is* different.
Several new people have discovered that you're just a bitter
little man (not that they need my help to figure that out).
>
>And I come here, and say that I decided to change what I was
>doing, and got a better result...and all you do is try to
>discount it, rather than learn from it.
I have no problem with someone changing what they are doing
if they are not achieving the results that they want. If
you would have stopped there you wouldn't be getting the
reception that you've recieved since you started posting here.
When you started claiming that american women treat everyone
else the same way that they have treated you, and that every
american women would treat every other men the same way that
they have treated you, people are going to question your
claims. You have yet to support your claims when questioned.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
the tree by the river
>the tree by the river wrote:
>> > Daniel Mocsny <dmo...@mfm.com> wrote:
>> >> In my experience, the less attractive a woman is, the better
>> >> she treats a given man.
>
>
>You might have to look a bit harder to see it, given that with
>a net worth above $10 million you probably won't find too many
>women who want to go out of their way to be rude to you. So what
>you are probably comparing are variations in the intensity
>of worship for your bad self.
Interesting thought, but I do know other men besides myself; I
sometimes meet people who are rude, I meet a lot more who are
nice, and when I'm out socializing or getting into conversations
with people out in public, how would they know anything about my
financial status?
>> What I have noticed, however, is how much variation there is in
>> who and what people find attractive. (And, please, tossing out
>> an example of the sex-symbol-of-the-week
>
>Here we go with this "week" thing again. You seem to think sex
>symbols, sociobiological theories, and everything else you want
>to discredit undergoes rapid variation. If I'm grasping your
>implication correctly, where did you get this peculiar idea?
>Certainly not by observing sex symbols and sociobiological
>theories over time.
I can't claim to observe them very closely--but that's the
impression that I get, all the same. As far as sex symbols go,
I generally have no idea who the various names being tossed
around are, so my impression of ephermerality is probably
greater than if I followed their careers, read "People" magazine,
or anything like that. I don't pay a lot of attention to pop
sociobiology either--maybe it's not so much that it changes, but
that for every theory, there's an equal and opposite theory that
somebody else champions.
>> (complete with perfect
>> makeup, lighting, direction, and background music) versus whoever
>> you think is an example of a particularly unattractive elderly
>> woman is not proof that there isn't a whole lot of variation in
>> real-world groups of people one is much more likely to meet and
>> interact with.)
>
>It's interesting that you mentioned elderly women. Do you recall what
>Ben Franklin had to say about them?
>
>Does the phrase "grateful as hell" ring a bell?
And some rhymes too; so?
>> >Maybe you think less attractive women treat men kinder because
>> >you wouldn't even bother hanging out with a less attractive woman
>> >unless you two actually had something in common.
>
>Or maybe, and perhaps more boringly, it's because I have actually
>hung out with women who spanned a fairly appreciable range of conformity
>with the majority definition of beauty.
And the rest of us don't?
>> >But you'd hang out with an attractive women even if the two of
>> >you had practically nothing in common.
>
>Most men have practically nothing in common with most women, so I
>don't see how your observation matters.
Eh? Maybe *you* have practically nothing in common, but I don't
think that applies to the rest of the known universe.
> Are you suggesting that
>I would be more likely to have less in common with an attractive woman?
I think it's very clear what she said, and that's not it.
>> >People with little in
>> >common seem to frustrate the hell out of each other.
>
>People with more options tend to appreciate a given option less.
>
>People naturally value things according to how much benefit they
>yield and how much they cost (i.e., how difficult they are to
>replace).
>
>We just discussed replaceability. The more attractive a given partner
>is, the more difficult (s)he is for a given person to replace. The
>more a person realizes this, the more incentive they have to be nice.
>
>Are you trying to convince me that I am overestimating the intelligence
>of women? I.e., that they are in the habit of acting against their own
>interests?
Maybe you're building this logical house of cards on a lot of shaky
premises? Not only are people not simply replaceable like that (not
once you've come to know and care about them), there are lots of other
motivations for being nice. I don't worry about how hard people I care
about might be to replace with someone with a similar level of
attractiveness--I like people I care about and who I interact with to
be happy and I enjoy feeling like I've added something to their lives,
that I've helped contribute to a smile here and there. I suspect that
not many people think about the people in their lives the way you're
describing.
Aaron R Kulkis
> >> >mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> In article <36999225.0@calwebnnrp>,
> >> >> citizen <nos...@calweb.com> wrote:
> >> >> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > I don't really think too many guys honestly have a problem with
> >> >> > > those ambitious feminists types per se. They just have a problem
> >> >> > > with what this buys these woman....the freedom to reject them.
> >> >> > > These men seem to have a HUGE problem with that.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That's a component of the whole picture, yes.
> >> >> > I wonder why you decided to focus on that though?
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe cuz the Aaron rants are still fresh in my mind.
> >> >
> >> >Quit with the slander, MJ...
> >> >
> >> >Anyone can reject anybody else at any time...
> >> >
> >> >What's wrong with feminist types is not that they can, or
> >> >even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
> >> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
> >> >are psychotic.
> >>
> >> types use to reject their husbands? I'm just trying to get an
> >> idea of what you consider to be trivial. Of course, what really
> >> matters is whether the feminist woman considers it to be trivial.
> >
> >Oh...I woke up one morning, and just wasn't in love anymore.
>
> Prove that this actually happens in real life. I want to
> see some actual factual data which indicates that a divorce
> is granted for this reason. Since your claim is that a large
> percentage of American women are psychotic you're results should
> show a signifcant percentage of divorces are granted because a
> woman woke up one morning and just wasnt' in love. Unless you
> can do so you're just talking out of your ass.
I'm just going on what they say. If there was something more
substantial, or even if they wanted to LIE and say that there
was something more substantial, they could have said so.
Besides, No matter WHAT the real cause...if women are running around
telling others that that IS the reason that they divorced the guy,
then, OBVIOUSLY, by the very act, they are saying that this is
an "acceptable reason" to do so... or else they would give some
other excuse (like, "he was an alcoholic or drug addict, or
unfaithful). Since I have no way of checking up with the guy
for the answer, why WOULDN'T she lie and tell me one of the
aforementioned reasons of substance, unless she did not TRULY
believe that "falling out of love" is reasonable grounds for
divorce.
Their own words indict them, John.
Remember, this is the age of "NO FAULT" divorce. If one side
petitions for divorce, it's granted. You can't contest it...
the procedures don't even allow for it. All you can contest
is the division of assets.
>
> >In MOST of the world, this is considered to be a normal, TEMPORARY
> >condition in a marriage. Nobody can maintain a "Happy Happy, Joy Joy"
> >attitude about their spouse EVERY SINGLE DAY for 50 years. EVERY
> >relationship has it's ups and downs.
> >
> >Mature people accept this, and deal with it.
> >
> >American women, on the other hand, run IMMEDIATELY for the
> >lawyers' offices....no matter to the harm that divorce causes
> >to the children....
>
> Prove it. Provide some factual data from a credible source which
> describes the reasons for why divorces occur. Unless you can do
> so, you should admit that this claim is based only upon your
> own conjecture.
Try opening your eyes and ears. I don't have to prove anything
to you, John.
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> Aaron R Kulkis wrote:
> >
> > George Davenport wrote:
> > >
> > > 20 year old women aren't normally competing with 35 year old
> > > women for the romantic attentions of a 35 or 40 year old man.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that Russia has a lot of big-age-gap marriages
> > > among Russians?
> >
> > Yes, it's very common in the culture.
> >
> > A man with a woman 20 years his junior is not uncommon.
> > I've seen it first hand.
>
> However. Advertising propaganda aside, it would have to be
> about money. Women who don't put a guy's money/financial security
> as first priority ordinarily aren't going to marry guys who're old
> enough to be their fathers.
>
> years younger, who has intellect and genuineness, and make her
> happier than she has any reason to expect to be?
Go back to reading comprehension and logic classes.
That was never ruled out by my statement above...and it is
common, also.
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <369C44DF...@flash.net>,
> >> >even DO chose to reject the same man whom they have married,
> >> >but, the TRIVIAL reasons for which they do so....reasons which
> >> >make other WOMEN in the rest of the world think that American women
> >> >are psychotic.
> >>
> >
> >Detroit is a veritable United Nations of au pairs (due to the
> >auto industry). I meet and talk with a LOT of them on a weekend
> >night in Royal Oak.
> >I'm just repeating what they say, loser.
>
> Oh yea I forgot how the auto industry depends on au pairs to produce
> automobiles.
> *snork*
> Raving lunatic.
Jim, you're a REAL DOPE!
The big-wig execs hire them to take care of their kids,
because their wives aren't satisfied with the 6+ figure incomes,
and think they need even MORE money....
>
> And as far as women of the world...read 18 year old girls out of
> the house for there first time.....they set the standards and define
> women of the world. Not surprising you'd be sniffing around the
> gullible. Aaron Kooky Kulkiss meets and talks with lots of women on
> weekend nights. And I have a private jet airplane and a ten foot dick.
>
> By the way parasite I subscribe to RWL so you can drop the bullshit
> about Irina.
Your point?
>
> Don't forget gimpboy. We have a date in may. You can show me your clerk
> moves. And I can watch you simper.
Aaron R Kulkis
Doesn't make your blindness more insightful, either.
>
> >John, either you're a damned idiot, or you are deliberately
> >avoiding the central issue....hopeless waste of oxygen.
>
> The central issue in my mind is that you have been
> undeservedly bashing american women since you arrived here.
> If you want to tell us that we can all meet some really
> great women if we go to Russia, fine. I'm not argueing
> that. I'm am objecting to your attack on american women
> and the implication that how you, personally, have been
> treated by american women has anything to do whatsoever
> with how they treat me, or anyone else that you're "advising".
Ok..where is YOUR data concerning YOUR experiences with
foreign girls.
Comparing Peanut Butter to ...(null set) is NOT
the same as comparing Peanut Butter to Steak.
You are saying that I have no idea what I am talking about,
yet I am the one who has sampled both.
You, sir, are an idiot, because you try to argue as if
you have knowledge of both spheres, when, in fact, you
have knowledge of only one sphere.
There are a lot of American girls who I *used* to think
were just great....but after dating Maria, they paled
in comparison.
Get it?
Knowing you, probably not...
>
> You make lots of bold claims about how evil american women
> are *in general* but have yet to post a single bit of evidence
> which supports your claims other then you're own opinion and
> hearsay. "I've seen lots of reports" means nothing unless you
> can actually provide us with a citation so that anyone that
> might disagree with your premise can verify that these "reports"
> say what you believe they say. You can call me names and put
> them in the article headers but it's not going to change the
> fact that you haven't supported your claims.
Yeah, in general they are exactly as described. The existance
of exceptions to a rule does NOT disqualify the rule...in
fact, exceptions serve only to DEMONSTRATE the overal validity
of the rule. Geeze, you are dense.
>
> >It is EXACTLY men like you...intelligent, educated, literate, and
> >maybe "respected" by women, but never respected well enough to
> >actually marry...for whose benefit I post in this newsgroup...
>
> Why do you presume that I have never been married?
Gee, and you didn't learn from THAT experience, either.
>
> >Well, maybe you AREN'T intelligent. It's obvious that you are
> >passing the insanity test...that is, continouing to do the same
> >thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
>
> New people subscribe to soc.singles everyday. When you post
> the same idiocy regarding american women and I show them that
> you're assertions are unsupported the result *is* different.
> Several new people have discovered that you're just a bitter
> little man (not that they need my help to figure that out).
>
> >
> >And I come here, and say that I decided to change what I was
> >doing, and got a better result...and all you do is try to
> >discount it, rather than learn from it.
>
> I have no problem with someone changing what they are doing
> if they are not achieving the results that they want. If
> you would have stopped there you wouldn't be getting the
> reception that you've recieved since you started posting here.
> When you started claiming that american women treat everyone
> else the same way that they have treated you, and that every
> american women would treat every other men the same way that
> they have treated you, people are going to question your
> claims. You have yet to support your claims when questioned.
>
Some people can't handle truth.
> John Fereira
> ja...@cornell.edu
Aaron R Kulkis
>
> In article <77j22t$dpl$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, aogi...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >I'm not saying Aaron is just right or wrong, but his limited observations are
> >contribute to his success with Russian women that have nothing to do with the
> >character of the women.
>
John, I've dated women from all over the country.....
>
> John Fereira
> ja...@cornell.edu
>
> Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org)
> Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
--
Susan T Graul
> >
> > In article <369C466A...@flash.net>, aku...@flash.net wrote:
[american women seek divorce because:]
> > >
> > >Oh...I woke up one morning, and just wasn't in love anymore.
> >
> > Prove that this actually happens in real life. I want to
> > see some actual factual data which indicates that a divorce
> > is granted for this reason. Since your claim is that a large
> > percentage of American women are psychotic you're results should
> > show a signifcant percentage of divorces are granted because a
> > woman woke up one morning and just wasnt' in love. Unless you
> > can do so you're just talking out of your ass.
>
> I'm just going on what they say. If there was something more
> substantial, or even if they wanted to LIE and say that there
> was something more substantial, they could have said so.
To you? Probably not. Not so long ago you were telling a woman that it
was her fault that her husband raped her. That she was insufficiently
loving and giving -- a month after having lost a baby in childbirth.
And you probably can't imagine why an attitude like that would
discourage honesty. I sure as hell wouldn't confide in *you* about the
real reason for a divorce.
But I do want to know what you think *is* a good reason for divorce.
Cheating? Physical abuse? Getting fat? Sterility? Nothing? Let's
have it.
> Besides, No matter WHAT the real cause...if women are running around
> telling others that that IS the reason that they divorced the guy,
> then, OBVIOUSLY, by the very act, they are saying that this is
> an "acceptable reason" to do so... or else they would give some
> other excuse (like, "he was an alcoholic or drug addict, or
> unfaithful). Since I have no way of checking up with the guy
> for the answer, why WOULDN'T she lie and tell me one of the
> aforementioned reasons of substance, unless she did not TRULY
> believe that "falling out of love" is reasonable grounds for
> divorce.
It's an easy out, Aaron. When someone asks an overly personal question,
it's not unnatural to resort to boilerplate. With your kneejerk
tendency to judge women adversely, do you *really* expect any woman to
tell you the real reason for her divorce? Do you really think American
women are so dumb that they can't tell you hate them?
Heck <wave> I might lie just to watch you froth.
Wanna know about my divorce?
> Their own words indict them, John.
Only if you're naive.
> Remember, this is the age of "NO FAULT" divorce. If one side
> petitions for divorce, it's granted. You can't contest it...
> the procedures don't even allow for it. All you can contest
> is the division of assets.
I know a fair number of people who've been through a divorce. Not one
of them has described it as a trivial experience. Every one of them has
been traumatized by it. Every one of them would have preferred to work
it out with their spouse.
There's only one case that I've heard of where the initial reason
offered was something like they fell out of love. (After further
discussion, the reason was a lot more complicated.)
It was the husband who asked for a divorce.
> > >In MOST of the world, this is considered to be a normal, TEMPORARY
> > >condition in a marriage. Nobody can maintain a "Happy Happy, Joy Joy"
> > >attitude about their spouse EVERY SINGLE DAY for 50 years. EVERY
> > >relationship has it's ups and downs.
> > >
> > >Mature people accept this, and deal with it.
> > >
> > >American women, on the other hand, run IMMEDIATELY for the
> > >lawyers' offices....no matter to the harm that divorce causes
> > >to the children....
> >
> > Prove it. Provide some factual data from a credible source which
> > describes the reasons for why divorces occur. Unless you can do
> > so, you should admit that this claim is based only upon your
> > own conjecture.
>
> Try opening your eyes and ears. I don't have to prove anything
> to you, John.
It's a good thing for you that you don't "have to", because you'd have a
hell of a time doing it.
Sue
Crash Street Kidd
>
> In article <369969...@pacbell.net>,
> ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
<SNIP! tales of intercontinental luv>
> Hmmn, but did these guys complain that they had to go abroad to
> find a wife because of the feminists (like the guy in Citizen's
> example did)?
If it weren't the eevil feminists it would be the CIA. The tinfoil
hat brigade must find someone to blame, for the alternative is to
face the awful truth that they themselves are the architects of
all that is not right in their world as you and others have so
kindly pointed out to Aaron.
> I think you are misinterpreting me George. I *never* said that
> an american man and a foreign woman couldn't just happen to meet
> and fall in love.
Unless you are like Aaron evaluating the purchase of a
milk cow cause he doesn't get the milk for free from the
eevil 'mericun beetches.
> But come on... you have to wonder about the guys who purposely shop
> the poor nations of the world for a wife.
Sometimes the would-be wives from the poor nations shop over here.
> It seems unlikely that it
> would be a *coincidence* that the lands where all these supposedly
> "superior" foreign women are located are ALWAYS poor nations.
Imagine the turmoil in Irina's father as he has to encourage his
daughter to run off with the weasel to avoid starvation and to
establish a beachhead in the United States for the eventual
migration of her whole family. Though Aaron's obsession with
hot tubs, sperm-counts and naked games of leap-frog must give
daddy some serious doubts. Perhaps she is just a figment of
Aaron's imagination and his true love is the three donged
donkey. Perhaps Jeem could elaborate on this possibility.
> BTW, since I have an admitted hobby of speculating about strangers who
> I've never met (a hobby I apparently share with Crash Street Kidd ;)
I knew my ears were tingling for a reason and it was not just
the beginnings of frost-bite. :-) <SMOOCHIES!!!>
> I'd guess that man-number-one from your examples *did* complain about
> feminists. (You know, the guy who married the woman who was too
> quiet for you to form an impression on. The man who looked to the
> Philippines "cuz he wanted marry a Catholic".)
>
> This is only a guess.
This is only a guess. If it had been a full speculation there
would have been small craft warnings on both coasts and Aaron's
head would be doing Linda Blair imitations.
> Monica (...who hasn't noticed any shortage of Catholics in the US)
Its that birth control aversion thing. All my married Catholic friends
seem to have lots of lil mischievous rugrats running around getting
into mischief. Presumably they will aleviate any future shortages of
Catholics (though maybe not in the U.S. unless the you-ess does
decide to invade over the split run magazine law).
Crash Street Kidd, little kids are cute but when things get quiet
you know they are up to something.
George Davenport
>
> ging...@pacbell.net wrote:
> > mjmo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> But if there was a group of young guys from Mexico who were
> marketing themselves to older US women, and it was pretty well
> understood that these men were strongly motivated by US
> citizenship, I don't think I'd lie to myself about what was
> going on with these men.
What if some of the guys were doctors, scientists, etc in their
late 20s and early 30s, and insisted that the women be within a few
years of the guys' ages, professionals, and that a photo be sent
with initial correspondence? Then they begin to sound more like
standard personals ads that we see in the U.S.
I wouldn't fault mail-order brides for desiring U.S. citizenship/
residency, but I would wonder about whether or not they're
motivated by other desires as well. Certainly it would be a
major hassle to screen out the ones with "bad" motives.
> I guess the reason for this distinction is that I think I
> would be able to better judge someone's true motives and his
> true feelings for me if I could interact with him personally
> on a day to day basis for a long period of time.
I think it helps to see how someone writes. Years later, when
I've reread cards/notes/letters from a couple of ex gfs, I've
been surprised by how really unappealing their written communications
were. It's made me wonder how close to them I *really* was.
> Your other comment confused me. The one about not wanting
> to live the rest of my life alone. I don't think I'd assume that
> I was doomed to spend the rest of my life alone if I hadn't found
> someone by age thirty-five. I see older people getting married
> all the time. I actually recently went to the wedding of one of my
> mom's friends. She's 60 (this was her first time getting
> married).
True, age doesn't limit the possibility of getting married.
Average age for first marriage in the U.S. is something like 27 for
guys and 26 for women. Let's say you're not married by age 35 or 40,
and you've long expected that it would "just happen" to you like your
parents before you and like many of your friends and family. Then at
some point you're in for a radical reappraisal of your motives, means,
and opportunities. Otherwise whatever kept you from getting married
up until then is likely to continue to keep you from getting married.
Also, if you want your own children, right around age 40 is where
you have to give up on that possibility. (Of course there is
technology, and the possibility of guys marrying younger women, but
a lot of people won't have those options.)
> > Mail order brides aside, would it bother you that someone would
> > be purposely looking for a spouse?
>
> No, not at all.
> I think everyone purposely looks.
How and when do you let a "prospect" know that you find marriage
(and family?) desirable in general, and find out your prospect's
views? (It's usually not regarded as desirable to hear it really
soon after you meet someone, but OTOH letting a relationship go on
for a while without a clear idea of the long term potential can
feel like a waste of time as you get older, for a person who does
see zirself getting married.)
> > Aaron's "superiority" issues aside, would you agree that
> > among women in Russia you'd expect to find about the same
> > range of desirability as you find among women in the U.S.?
>
> Sure, probably.
> But when you're talking about someone you'd marry, for most
> people you seem to be talking about someone you know well, and
> who you've spent a considerable amount of time with. Someone
> you've gotten to know on a day-to-day basis. You
> know how the two of you interact on a personal level because
> you've spent a lot of time together. This doesn't seem to
> be the case with most "mail-order-bride" situations.
I wouldn't think so, because of the distance involved. (But the
same can be said of other LDRs such as found through the net.)
But I also think that if two people like/love each other, aren't
too selfish and egotistical, and are responsible people (things
which I believe can be determined to some extent through
correspondence) ... then it doesn't take years of dating / living
together before marriage to make a marriage that works.
George
--
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Bluffs/3289/index.html
01/10/99 -- me and my nephew, August 1998
-- my English immigrant great grandmother, 1922 & 1972
George Davenport
It was a rhetorical question. Not an attempt to prove you wrong,
merely a redirection away from your focus on the more lurid
aspects of mail order brides.