Is Puerto Rico a green field?

[islander]

In the power and telecommunication industries, a green field is an
opportunity to build infrastructure where none existed before. This was
most obvious, but not limited to, introduction of cellular phone service
in regions that had no phone service before.

With the almost complete destruction of the power and telecommunications
systems on Puerto Rico, is it possible that we should be considering a
complete replacement of the power and telecommunication grids?

The impulse will be to patch things together as soon as possible, only
to have it be the same old unreliable system that will be put out of
service again in the next storm.

This might be an ideal opportunity to install a microgrid system with
extensive use of solar and wind energy sources. The island is blessed
with a lot of sunshine with high UV content because of its latitude. In
addition the trade winds are a pretty reliable source of wind power.
Because it has no other source of energy, the cost of importing fuel
makes solar and wind more feasible. A microgrid system also increases
reliability.

I think someone should investigate building a system where most of the
major distribution parts are buried, using conduit so that wires can be
replaced and allow for installation of high performance fiber for
telecommunication at the same time.

This would provide a major stimulus to their economy, something that
they badly need.

But, who would have the vision to do this? Evidently this was being
considered prior to the storm. It should be more feasible now.
http://blog.sandw.com/energyfinancereport/2015/05/puerto-rico-lots-of-sunshine-little-solar-energy-but-a-bright-future/

[El Castor]

I suspect that the replacement system will be largely up to Puerto
Rico. In any event, I have heard discussion that new housing should be
situated and constructed to withstand a hurricane. Claims of
manufacturers aside, solar panels and windmills don't sound very wind
resistant, and in any event, the power grid will still be necessary.

[islander]

A power grid will certainly be needed. The question is whether we
implement the same old vulnerable grid or use new technology to
implement a much more reliable microgrid system.

As to building codes, I would favor rebuilding to codes that assure
hurricane resistance. Florida did that and it was largely successful.
Not that much more expensive.

As to tolerance for wind, solar technology is easier to protect than
more conventional sources of energy supply and distribution.

[jgro...@hotmail.com]

On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 2:14:48 PM UTC-5, islander wrote:

>
> But, who would have the vision to do this? Evidently this was being
> considered prior to the storm. It should be more feasible now.
> http://blog.sandw.com/energyfinancereport/2015/05/puerto-rico-lots-of-sunshine-little-solar-energy-but-a-bright-future/

Its a good time to exchange PR for some better islands like BVI and St. Martin.
Would the Brits, French and Dutch consider a Sec. 1031 Tax Free exchange ??

[Gary]

"....withstand a hurricane... " ?

I don't know anything about the population of Puerto Rico --- but the pictures of a lot of
those houses destroyed looked like middle class housing. If so -- and if the owners are
working class -- I don't see how they can possibly afford to pay for a house that can
withstand a hurricane.

[islander]

I've been to St. Maarten. A pretty place with a spectacular nude beach.
Not much left of it now tho.

[me]

PR is one more Democrat shit hole. This was the case before the hurricane. The hurtricane damage will be a pretext for more money, waste, fraud and abuse. Additional money will likely go to pay existing debts.

[Bill Bowden]

"islander" <no...@priracy.com> wrote in message
news:oqm636$tav$1...@dont-email.me...

Sounds like a good idea. The problem is designing wind and solar systems
that can withstand 185 MPH storms You can't put solar arrays or windmills
underground.

[jgro...@hotmail.com]

Seinfeld or NatGeo "spectacular" ??

[islander]

From what I read, it can be done. More expensive, of course. Still,
merely restoring what they have now clearly will not withstand 185 mph
storms.

[El Castor]

What? A nuclear power plant can't withstand a hurricane?

"According to a study from the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI), nuclear
sites for the production of energy are designed to withstand
hurricanes, and they carry a long history of successes. With the
contention structures of the steel-enforced concrete reactor, energy
producing nuclear sites are the most solid of all of the United
State's sites. Nuclear power point operators, additionally, are
trained every six weeks on how to safely handle external phenomena
such as hurricanes, and there is regular co-ordination with local,
state and federal authorities to prepare for emergencies."
http://www.foronuclear.org/en/ask-the-expert/120060-how-do-nuclear-power-plants-withstand-hurricanes-

"The two nuclear reactors at the South Texas Project plant near
Houston were operating at full capacity despite wind gusts that peaked
at 130 mph as the Hurricane made landfall. The plant implemented its
severe weather protocols as planned and completed hurricane
preparations ahead of Category 4 Hurricane Harvey striking the Texas
Gulf Coast on August 25th. Anyone who knows anything about nuclear was
not surprised. Nuclear is the only energy source immune to all extreme
weather events – by design."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/09/01/hurricane-harvey-makes-the-case-for-nuclear-power/#1274a6e43625

[bfla...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 2:45:22 PM UTC-7, El Castor wrote:
> What? A nuclear power plant can't withstand a hurricane?

Riiiiiiiight! How about an earthquake? Besides that, EC, how are
we to complete the Donald's vision of making America great again
if we don't build more coal fired plants? We can ship coal to
China-to PR would be a piece of cake.

I mean, look how fast we got a hospital ship down to PR.

[bfla...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 4:55:15 PM UTC-7, me wrote:
> PR is one more Democrat shit hole. This was the case before the hurricane. The hurtricane damage will be a pretext for more money, waste, fraud and abuse. Additional money will likely go to pay existing debts.

What is it about brown American people you don't feel like helping.
Werner? Is it OK to help Republican browns or do you just don't
want to help anyone because it costs money?

[Bill Bowden]

"islander" <no...@priracy.com> wrote in message

news:oqr2au$tpq$2...@dont-email.me...

Maybe the solar arrays can be mounted flat against the ground so winds don't
bother them? That would sacrifice some efficiency so we just need more
panels to compensate. I was in hurricane once on the windward side of the
island of Hawaii when I was in the Marine Corps. We had 3 radar systems to
monitor air trafficand usually only one of them worked. They were all
portable systems and could be put in boxes if we had to move. Two of the
systems were housed inside an inflatable balloon type structure. One day we
had a hurricane and several of us were laying on the ground with ropes
attached to the inflatable housing trying to stop the wind from blowing
everything away. The wind finally won and the entire inflatable structure
broke loose and disappeared into the ocean. It just sort of faded away in
the distance and became smaller and smaller as it moved out to sea and
disappeared.

[El Castor]

Lets compromise on oil.

[bfla...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 8:26:45 PM UTC-7, El Castor wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Oct 2017 17:20:29 -0700 (PDT), bflan wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 2:45:22 PM UTC-7, El Castor wrote:
> >> What? A nuclear power plant can't withstand a hurricane?
> >
> >Riiiiiiiight! How about an earthquake? Besides that, EC, how are
> >we to complete the Donald's vision of making America great again
> >if we don't build more coal fired plants? We can ship coal to
> >China-to PR would be a piece of cake.
> >
> >I mean, look how fast we got a hospital ship down to PR.
>
> Lets compromise on oil.

With so many straws stuck in the ground to pump the oil in Ok.
and the waste being pumped back, Ok is experiencing earthquakes.
Those quakes are causing much damage while blasting the tops
off mountains and pushing the garbage into streams just makes
the landscape ugly. Coal is the answer. We need a new crop of
miners with black lung. The oldsters are dying off!

Bottom line: no free lunch. Name your poison.

How's the clean up in Hanford going?

[El Castor]

Why do I bother?

[bfla...@gmail.com]

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 12:32:43 AM UTC-7, El Castor wrote:
> Why do I bother?

It's my guess that you only bother when you have what you believe
is a good rejoinder to the post otherwise you don't bother.

Am I correct?

[islander]

Nuclear plants are especially susceptible to flooding. If only we could
keep some idiot from putting the backup generators in the basement! One
would also need to assure that enough diesel fuel for the backup
generators was kept on hand. How long should you plan for? A week?
Two weeks?

Personally, I tend to favor distributed systems because of their fault
tolerance. One nuclear reactor would probably handle Puerto Rico, but
that creates a single point of failure - never a good plan.

Microgrid power systems are the way to go in the future. Very fault
tolerant.

BTW, I'm seeing a big solar system in the Virgin Islands was pretty well
destroyed, adding credence to your earlier stated concern. In that
area, you really have to plan for really big storms!

[islander]

That is a good suggestion. Puerto Rico is only about a thousand miles
from the equator, so a flat installation would be nearly optimum,
efficiency wise.

My understanding is that most homes in Puerto Rico have flat roofs,
ideal for siting solar panels. Now, if they could just learn how to use
hurricane ties to connect the roofs to the foundations like they have
learned to do in Florida...

[islander]

Libertarians believe in FREEDOM! Everyone is free to be responsible for
themselves. Don't need no damn nanny state!

Cato Institute has put together a scoring system to quantify their view
of Libertarian values. Two thirds of their scoring relates to economic
freedoms. Basically, if it costs money, they are opposed to it.

[islander]

In this morning's mail, it looks like I am not the only person thinking
that Puerto Rico (and the other Caribbean islands) should be thinking
about renewable energy.


Storm-Ravaged Caribbean Is Eyeing Solar, But It Won’t Come Cheap
October 2, 2017
By Emma Ockerman, Bloomberg

For Caribbean islands plunged into darkness after hurricanes Irma and
Maria, more resilient, small-scale electric systems powered by the sun
are looking increasingly attractive. Transforming a grid, though,
doesn’t come cheap.

In making the case for so-called microgrids, environmental nonprofit
Rocky Mountain Institute pointed to solar installations on the Turks and
Caicos islands that remained largely intact while the local utility
reported more than 1,200 poles down. That was the case on Richard
Branson’s Necker Island, too. Even Bruce Walker, the nominee to lead the
Energy Department’s electricity office, hailed Puerto Rico’s devastated
grid as an opportunity to test technologies that’ll make it more
resilient to storms. Gov. Ricardo Rossello said Friday that he’s
considering microgrids.

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2017/10/storm-ravaged-caribbean-is-eyeing-solar-but-it-won-t-come-cheap.html?cmpid=enl_rew_solar_energy_news_2017-10-03&email_address=losl...@snf.stanford.edu&eid=291197832&bid=1883523
or
http://tinyurl.com/ybngyb2f