Atheist Jews murdered the Russian Imperial Family

[CLOISTER]

https://russia-insider.com/en/jewish-murder-russian-imperial-family/ri27475

Although an awful blood letting, it is good that the truth
finally came out, that it had nothing to do with politics

[Gary]

> When it comes to racism, you're deep in "hopeless case" territory.
>

Pointing out historical truths is not racist. Please remember the Dred
Scott decision by the Supreme Court in 1857:

At the time the Constitution was adopted, the Chief Justice wrote, blacks
had been "regarded as beings of an inferior order" with "no rights which
the white man was bound to respect."

Were the Founding Fathers "racists" or ...... highly intelligent ?

[wolfbat359]

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2017/11/30/conspiracy-romanovs-murder--alarmed-russia-jews-a59743

Excerpt:

What to read into it?

It is unclear why the conspiracy was brought up in official circles a century after the murders, the spokesperson of the Federation of Jewish Communities of Russia, Boruch Gorin, told The Moscow Times on Wednesday.

Noting that anti-Semitism has long been a running undercurrent in Russia, Gorin said that the re-emergence of the theory was “shocking.”

But, he said, it signals a strong anti-Semitic current in the Orthodox Church and at the highest levels of government, unless the Kremlin denounces it.

“If the government doesn’t strongly denounce this, then it shows that at any moment anti-Semitic propaganda can come back into full force like during the late 1970s in the Soviet Union,” he said. “This can blow up anti-Semitism very forcefully.”

But on Wednesday, the Kremlin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov was cited by state media brushing the controversy aside.

“This is not a matter of our agenda,” he said.

https://newslanc.com/some-seek-to-cast-suspicion-on-jews-for-ritual-killing-the-last-russian-tsar/

excerpt:

One of the most prominent liberal Russian websites Meduza.io wrote:

“What does the term “ritual killing” mean when talking about the murder of the tsar and his family? (…) When talking about the “ritual killing” of the tsar and his family, the term has clear anti-Semitic overtones. Supporters of this theory allege that the Bolsheviks who committed the murder also performed some kind of Jewish blood ritual, as part of a supposed “worldwide Jewish conspiracy.”

Meduza.io gives information on the history of the subject:

“Russian investigators have twice rejected conspiracy theories about the murder of the Romanov family, reopening the case in 1993 and again in 2007. In 1991, seven skeletons were discovered outside Yekaterinburg that were very likely the remains of the tsar’s entire family …

“During the examination of the bones, the Russian Orthodox Church was permitted to raise specific questions, and investigators even expanded their analysis to address the church’s concerns… Experts found no evidence of a ‘ritual killing’ (…) According to lead investigator Solovyov, the murder was carried out by local atheist security officials, almost none of whom were Jewish. The killers’ efforts to ‘conceal and dispose of the bodies,’ Solovyov concluded, were ‘improvised and hurried.’ Vladimir Solovyov dismissed the ritual killing theory as ‘absolutely sensationalist, obscene information.’”

In an interview with the television network Dozhd, Sergey Mironenko (a history professor and State Archives academic advisor who took part in the 1990s investigation) said, “It’s impossible to raise [the question of ritual killing in the Romanovs’ case] either scientifically or morally. It was proven long ago that Jews never committed ritual killings. Why investigate this all over again? Mironenko refused to discuss the matter with Meduza. “Ritual killing is such nonsensical garbage that it’s embarrassing just talking about it,” he explained.

The new investigation was strongly condemned by the Russian Jewish community and many commentators in the media and social networks.

[CLOISTER]

=====================

We are talking about ethnic Jews who are self-described atheists
Marx was ethnically Jewish. His maternal grandfather was a Dutch rabbi, while his paternal line had supplied Trier's rabbis since 1723, a role taken by his grandfather Meier Halevi Marx.[26] His father, as a child known as Herschel, was the first in the line to receive a secular education.

[CLOISTER]

=========================
After his discharge in 1842, Engels met Moses Hess, the man who converted him to communism. Hess, the son of wealthy Jewish parents and a promoter of radical causes and publications, demonstrated to Engels that the logical consequence of the Hegelian philosophy and dialectic was communism. Hess also stressed the role that England, with its advanced industry, burgeoning proletariat, and portents of class conflict, was destined to play in future upheavals. Engels eagerly seized the opportunity to go to England, ostensibly to continue his business training in the family firm in Manchester

==================
Always keep in mind that you can not be a communist unless you are
atheist. None of these folks were Russian.They started THE RUSSIAN
REVOLUTION, that called for the deaths of the Orthodox Christians, and
The Czar being their target for murder.

[Gary]

Quote from article:

"....This relates to the Yom Kippur ritual in which a live fowl is swung about the head
before being slaughtered by the shechita method..."

If I knew that is true --- I would lose all respect for religious Jews. Being cruel to a
bird is not nice.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I agree, though of course torture and ritual sacrifice
are common in theistic religions.

I regard myself as a fake reformed Jew, not a fake
orthodox Jew. I'm a devout atheist of course, but one
can be both an atheist and a fake reformed Jew:
that's one of the beauties of reformed Judaism.

If Jahweh were to appear to me as a burning bush,
as is sometimes his wont, and say that he realized
humans had been mostly a mistake so he was going
to kill them all except for one small sect, and ask me
which small sect would I choose, I'd answer without
much hesitation "Reformed Jews". I expect that
holiest of holies, Jerry Seinfeld, is a reformed Jew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szAjGEoPtY4

[Gary]

On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 03:27:00 -0700, rumpelstiltskin<x...@y.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Aug 2019 07:53:00 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 12:17:46 -0700 (PDT), CLOISTER <free....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>https://russia-insider.com/en/jewish-murder-russian-imperial-family/ri27475
>>>
>>>Although an awful blood letting, it is good that the truth
>>>finally came out, that it had nothing to do with politics
>>
>>Quote from article:
>>
>>"....This relates to the Yom Kippur ritual in which a live fowl is swung about the head
>>before being slaughtered by the shechita method..."
>>
>>If I knew that is true --- I would lose all respect for religious Jews. Being cruel to a
>>bird is not nice.
>
>
> I agree, though of course torture and ritual sacrifice
>are common in theistic religions.

I don't know why, but ever since I was a child -- I have liked animals. Big ones,
little ones, wild, tame -- makes no difference. So I tend to dislike people who
mistreat them.

> I regard myself as a fake reformed Jew, not a fake
>orthodox Jew. I'm a devout atheist of course, but one
>can be both an atheist and a fake reformed Jew:
>that's one of the beauties of reformed Judaism.

I have mixed feelings about Jews. I respect -- and practice -- some of the traditions
they have handed down for 4,000 years. I'm not religious, and I doubt many Jews are.
I suppose they have contributed more to Western Civilization than any other tribe.

Jews are a great tribe and they influence a lot of the modern culture. Like -- movies,
TV, etc.

> If Jahweh were to appear to me as a burning bush,
>as is sometimes his wont, and say that he realized
>humans had been mostly a mistake so he was going
>to kill them all except for one small sect, and ask me
>which small sect would I choose, I'd answer without
>much hesitation "Reformed Jews". I expect that
>holiest of holies, Jerry Seinfeld, is a reformed Jew.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szAjGEoPtY4

If that happened to me -- I'd probably be at a loss for words :-)

Let me mention a religious thought. When I was a kid, I read the Ten Commandments.
And since then -- I always wondered why Jews keep the Fourth Commandment -- "Remember the
Seventh Day" -- but Christians do not.

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:49:28 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 03:27:00 -0700, rumpelstiltskin<x...@y.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 03 Aug 2019 07:53:00 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 12:17:46 -0700 (PDT), CLOISTER <free....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>https://russia-insider.com/en/jewish-murder-russian-imperial-family/ri27475
>>>>
>>>>Although an awful blood letting, it is good that the truth
>>>>finally came out, that it had nothing to do with politics
>>>
>>>Quote from article:
>>>
>>>"....This relates to the Yom Kippur ritual in which a live fowl is swung about the head
>>>before being slaughtered by the shechita method..."
>>>
>>>If I knew that is true --- I would lose all respect for religious Jews. Being cruel to a
>>>bird is not nice.
>>
>>
>> I agree, though of course torture and ritual sacrifice
>>are common in theistic religions.
>
>I don't know why, but ever since I was a child -- I have liked animals. Big ones,
>little ones, wild, tame -- makes no difference. So I tend to dislike people who
>mistreat them.

Join the club, and it's a big club.

>
>> I regard myself as a fake reformed Jew, not a fake
>>orthodox Jew. I'm a devout atheist of course, but one
>>can be both an atheist and a fake reformed Jew:
>>that's one of the beauties of reformed Judaism.
>
>I have mixed feelings about Jews. I respect -- and practice -- some of the traditions
>they have handed down for 4,000 years. I'm not religious, and I doubt many Jews are.
>I suppose they have contributed more to Western Civilization than any other tribe.

I mostly like Reformed Judaism because many of the
"best" (IMV) people I've ever met were Reformed Jews.
I say "were" because I've outlived most of the people
I ever knew now. Religion rarely comes up in
conversation in my world. because everybody from
what used to be a Christian background is secular
now, and regards Christianity as a weird outdated
cult, so bizarre that, like myself, they don't see
how anybody could ever have really believed it.

>
>Jews are a great tribe and they influence a lot of the modern culture. Like -- movies,
>TV, etc.

Screw movies, I haven't gone to a movie theatre more
than 20 times in my life since age 14 or so. In my early
teens, I used to go to horror movies with my best friend
at the time.

>
>> If Jahweh were to appear to me as a burning bush,
>>as is sometimes his wont, and say that he realized
>>humans had been mostly a mistake so he was going
>>to kill them all except for one small sect, and ask me
>>which small sect would I choose, I'd answer without
>>much hesitation "Reformed Jews". I expect that
>>holiest of holies, Jerry Seinfeld, is a reformed Jew.
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szAjGEoPtY4
>
>If that happened to me -- I'd probably be at a loss for words :-)

I'd be pretty amazed. I'd be scared of Jehovah,
though if I weren't so scared I'd have some very
pointed questions to ask "Him".

>Let me mention a religious thought. When I was a kid, I read the Ten Commandments.
>And since then -- I always wondered why Jews keep the Fourth Commandment -- "Remember the
>Seventh Day" -- but Christians do not.

Same reason Religious people used to crucify
people, I suppose - no reason at all except that
it was something fun to do, and life was so
awful in those days compared to our modern
technological wonderland, that people needed
something to relieve the tedium.

We have a new "tallest building" in San
Francisco now, with the unbelievably
prosaic name of "Sales Force Building".
I didn't like the building at first - it looked
like a big dildo to me and I'm definitely
not a dildo person - but it's grown on me.
"Sales Force" is the name of a business,
though I can't imagine why anybody
would pick such an unappealing name
for their business. "Zap Comix" and
"Apple" are examples of more
interesting names.
https://tinyurl.com/y64vmgjn

Here's the Zap Comix magazine
cover I use as my Facebook
picture, though I almost never
visit Facebook.
https://tinyurl.com/y45ahkmb

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 10:46:50 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 05:42:28 -0700, rumpelstiltskin<x...@y.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:49:28 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 03:27:00 -0700, rumpelstiltskin<x...@y.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 03 Aug 2019 07:53:00 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 12:17:46 -0700 (PDT), CLOISTER <free....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>https://russia-insider.com/en/jewish-murder-russian-imperial-family/ri27475
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Although an awful blood letting, it is good that the truth
>>>>>>finally came out, that it had nothing to do with politics
>>>>>
>>>>>Quote from article:
>>>>>
>>>>>"....This relates to the Yom Kippur ritual in which a live fowl is swung about the head
>>>>>before being slaughtered by the shechita method..."
>>>>>
>>>>>If I knew that is true --- I would lose all respect for religious Jews. Being cruel to a
>>>>>bird is not nice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree, though of course torture and ritual sacrifice
>>>>are common in theistic religions.
>>>
>>>I don't know why, but ever since I was a child -- I have liked animals. Big ones,
>>>little ones, wild, tame -- makes no difference. So I tend to dislike people who
>>>mistreat them.
>
>> Join the club, and it's a big club.
>

>I sure hope so. The bigger the better. The little creatures need
>our help.

>
>>>> I regard myself as a fake reformed Jew, not a fake
>>>>orthodox Jew. I'm a devout atheist of course, but one
>>>>can be both an atheist and a fake reformed Jew:
>>>>that's one of the beauties of reformed Judaism.
>>>
>>>I have mixed feelings about Jews. I respect -- and practice -- some of the traditions
>>>they have handed down for 4,000 years. I'm not religious, and I doubt many Jews are.
>>>I suppose they have contributed more to Western Civilization than any other tribe.
>>
>>
>> I mostly like Reformed Judaism because many of the
>>"best" (IMV) people I've ever met were Reformed Jews.
>

>I've known a few Jews -- but I don't know if they were reformed or
>not. And if I were to become religious -- I'd love to become a Jew.
>Problem is -- Jews don't seek (nor allow?) converts like Christians
>do.

Actually, I've only known two Jews who I know for
sure are reformed Jews, and I just assume that the
others are reformed Jews too. I don't know much
about traditional Jewry, but I assume in my
prejudice that, being more tied to the superstitions
of the ancients, traditional Jewry might be a bit
weird, along the lines of Baptists and Presbyterians
who haven't adjusted to the passing of time.
The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons are
even more recent religions though, and they seem
pretty barbarous to me, compared to the other
Protestants and even many Catholics. I know
you like Mormons, but if you were gay you
wouldn't like them nearly as much. Also, although
all theistic religion is fake, the Mormon religion is
so obviously fake that I don't see how the Mormons
can avoid seeing that.


>
>I've never met a Jew who I did not like. I think that is great
>value of their culture.

>
>>I say "were" because I've outlived most of the people
>> I ever knew now. Religion rarely comes up in
>>conversation in my world. because everybody from
>>what used to be a Christian background is secular
>>now, and regards Christianity as a weird outdated
>>cult, so bizarre that, like myself, they don't see
>>how anybody could ever have really believed it.
>

>A lot of my relatives -- and favorite cousins -- are church members.
>But I've not heard any mention of religion in many years. None of
>the people I know socially -- are religious.


Religion is dying out, praise Allah. I probably shouldn't
say that though, because even though Islam is newer
than Christianity, it seems far more backward, doubtless
because Islam suppressed enlightenment more
successfully then Christianity did.

>
>
>>>Jews are a great tribe and they influence a lot of the modern culture. Like -- movies,
>>>TV, etc.

I've read that Jews comprise 0.2% of the
world's population, but 20% of Nobel Laureates!
https://tinyurl.com/yydtfhvf

>>
>>
>> Screw movies, I haven't gone to a movie theatre more
>>than 20 times in my life since age 14 or so. In my early
>>teens, I used to go to horror movies with my best friend
>>at the time.
>

>I use to enjoy going to the local movie theaters when I was younger.
>But things began to get bad sometime in the 1960s-70s. Teenagers
>would come in and walk up and down the aisles. Talk to each other
>instead of watching the movies. And the ushers did not sit them down
>or shut them up. I was not allowed to trip them and slap them -- so I
>quit going to the theaters.
>
>My wife and I went to see -- "Raiders of the Lost Ark" at the local
>movie house in 1982. That was the last time I went into a theater.
>Of course -- I've seen a lot of movies on TV.

>
>>>> If Jahweh were to appear to me as a burning bush,
>>>>as is sometimes his wont, and say that he realized
>>>>humans had been mostly a mistake so he was going
>>>>to kill them all except for one small sect, and ask me
>>>>which small sect would I choose, I'd answer without
>>>>much hesitation "Reformed Jews". I expect that
>>>>holiest of holies, Jerry Seinfeld, is a reformed Jew.
>>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szAjGEoPtY4
>>>
>>>If that happened to me -- I'd probably be at a loss for words :-)
>>
>> I'd be pretty amazed. I'd be scared of Jehovah,
>>though if I weren't so scared I'd have some very
>>pointed questions to ask "Him".
>>

>It sure would be nice to get answers from the creator of all things.
>"how high is up?"

>
>
>>>Let me mention a religious thought. When I was a kid, I read the Ten Commandments.
>>>And since then -- I always wondered why Jews keep the Fourth Commandment -- "Remember the
>>>Seventh Day" -- but Christians do not.
>>
>>
>> Same reason Religious people used to crucify
>>people, I suppose - no reason at all except that
>>it was something fun to do, and life was so
>>awful in those days compared to our modern
>>technological wonderland, that people needed
>>something to relieve the tedium.
>

>People who want to rule and control others -- will use anything to
>bring it about. Physical force or spiritual guidance. I bet the
>folks who rule technology would love to horse-whip people -- but the
>government and laws don't allow it. (like it use to)

>
>> We have a new "tallest building" in San
>>Francisco now, with the unbelievably
>>prosaic name of "Sales Force Building".
>>I didn't like the building at first - it looked
>>like a big dildo to me and I'm definitely
>>not a dildo person - but it's grown on me.
>>"Sales Force" is the name of a business,
>>though I can't imagine why anybody
>>would pick such an unappealing name
>>for their business. "Zap Comix" and
>>"Apple" are examples of more
>>interesting names.
>>https://tinyurl.com/y64vmgjn
>>
>> Here's the Zap Comix magazine
>>cover I use as my Facebook
>>picture, though I almost never
>>visit Facebook.
>>https://tinyurl.com/y45ahkmb
>

>Gruesome looking !! :-)
>
>I love the internet, but I have never joined Facebook.


I joined Facebook, but quickly felt it wasn't
my thing. I got birthday greetings from my
niece and nephew and from my sister's best
friend in February, but didn't realize they
were posted until a couple of weeks ago.

My birthday is February 15, the same
as Galileo and Praetorius and Susan B.
Anthony. The first two are somewhat
questionable, since back in those days
people sometimes used their baptism
day as their "birthday".

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 17:35:54 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 12:19:42 -0700, rumpelstiltskin<x...@y.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 10:46:50 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 05:42:28 -0700, rumpelstiltskin<x...@y.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:49:28 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 03:27:00 -0700, rumpelstiltskin<x...@y.com> wrote:
>

><snip>

>I wouldn't say I "like" Mormons, but I do find their history and
>early leaders to be very interesting. I really think one of them
>might have been a conquerer had he tried. He might very well have
>made a new country in the early 1800s territories.


Do you mean Joseph Smith? He was a convicted
con-artist. Do you mean Brigham Young? He
accepted the proven duplicity of Joseph Smith,
perhaps persuaded into it because he saw it as
a path to power, and he wanted power.

[CLOISTER]

You never watched your grandmother wring a chicken's neck. One of her
neighbors would tie their feet to the clothes line and cut their heads
off with a butch knife. You never watched her gut a chicken and explain
to you what each part was?
My grandfather would butcher pigs and cows. He would shoot them in the forehead to kill them and then hit their heads would a sledge hammer to get them to bleed. It was a concrete floor and he would just hose it off afterwards
You guy are very naive about where hamburger, bacon and fried chicken comes
from.
Do you think a bear, who wanted to eat you for dinner would
hesitate for humanitarian reasons?

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:29:05 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 08:17:11 -0700 (PDT), CLOISTER

><free....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 4:40:51 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 12:17:46 -0700 (PDT), CLOISTER <free....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >https://russia-insider.com/en/jewish-murder-russian-imperial-family/ri27475
>>> >
>>> >Although an awful blood letting, it is good that the truth
>>> >finally came out, that it had nothing to do with politics
>>>
>>> Quote from article:
>>>
>>> "....This relates to the Yom Kippur ritual in which a live fowl is swung about the head
>>> before being slaughtered by the shechita method..."
>>>
>>> If I knew that is true --- I would lose all respect for religious Jews. Being cruel to a
>>> bird is not nice.
>>
>>You never watched your grandmother wring a chicken's neck.
>

>Unfortunately -- yes I did. When I was 9 years old, my father (in
>the army) had been transferred to England. Mother and I were staying
>with her parents waiting for our travel papers.
>
>One day I was sitting in the yard near grandma, watching this chicken
>walk around in the yard, pecking and clucking. Then .. grandma got
>up, picked the chicken up by the head -- and spun him around. She
>put it down, and I saw it was dead. We had fried chicken for
>supper.
>
>We left for England a few days later. I was glad to get out of
>there ! Two years in England -- I never saw any animals murdered.


I just had bacon for breakfast. I didn't murder the
pig myself, but somebody did, and I'm responsible
for supporting the murder of pigs by buying their
meat. Not that humans don't kill for other reasons
too, often just for bloodlust like that dentist who
shot a lion, or that rich b**** who shot a giraffe,
just for fun or for some even more twisted motive.
Mankind lives in "sin" and there doesn't seem to
be anyway to avoid it. It's the way the universe
is structured, or more accurately "not structured".
Other animals of course are just the same,
except that they're not as talented at it as
humans are.

>
>> One of her
>>neighbors would tie their feet to the clothes line and cut their heads
>>off with a butch knife. You never watched her gut a chicken and explain
>>to you what each part was?
>>My grandfather would butcher pigs and cows. He would shoot them in the forehead to kill them and then hit their heads would a sledge hammer to get them to bleed. It was a concrete floor and he would just hose it off afterwards
>>You guy are very naive about where hamburger, bacon and fried chicken comes
>>from.
>

>I don't eat much meat, but I do eat a little. But ... if I was
>expected to kill it myself, I'd be a complete vegetarian.

>
>> Do you think a bear, who wanted to eat you for dinner would
>>hesitate for humanitarian reasons?
>

>No. But he has not been civilized for 5,000 years like us humans
>have.


Humans are "civilized" ???

"Oh how sad it is to give up the Holy Ghost
He is so beautiful, but not when you look close."
-- Stevie Smith
https://tinyurl.com/y3nygkwq

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:20:35 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>I don't care about the morals of historic figures. True those two
>were not real good men. But they had the ability to convince
>thousands of people to do as they said. That takes talent.


Jack the Ripper had talent too: he was never identified.
So did Saint Paul. Jesus himself, if the stories are true
(except for the stories of miracles that seem ridiculous
now) was not as successful - he was crucified. If it
weren't for Paul and Peter, he'd be forgotten today.

>
>Smith started with nothing, and was on his way to being the leader of
>a new nation. His talents for getting money were close to those of
>Al Capone. And he and Al both prospered in Illinois.

Is that cause for admiration or respect?

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 15:12:15 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>Such uncalled for killing.

>
>>just for fun or for some even more twisted motive.
>>Mankind lives in "sin" and there doesn't seem to
>>be anyway to avoid it. It's the way the universe
>>is structured, or more accurately "not structured".
>>Other animals of course are just the same,
>>except that they're not as talented at it as
>>humans are.
>

>So true.

>
>>>> One of her
>>>>neighbors would tie their feet to the clothes line and cut their heads
>>>>off with a butch knife. You never watched her gut a chicken and explain
>>>>to you what each part was?
>>>>My grandfather would butcher pigs and cows. He would shoot them in the forehead to kill them and then hit their heads would a sledge hammer to get them to bleed. It was a concrete floor and he would just hose it off afterwards
>>>>You guy are very naive about where hamburger, bacon and fried chicken comes
>>>>from.
>>>
>>>I don't eat much meat, but I do eat a little. But ... if I was
>>>expected to kill it myself, I'd be a complete vegetarian.
>>>
>>>> Do you think a bear, who wanted to eat you for dinner would
>>>>hesitate for humanitarian reasons?
>>>
>>>No. But he has not been civilized for 5,000 years like us humans
>>>have.
>>
>>
>> Humans are "civilized" ???
>>
>> "Oh how sad it is to give up the Holy Ghost
>> He is so beautiful, but not when you look close."
>> -- Stevie Smith
>>https://tinyurl.com/y3nygkwq
>

>Most humans are civilized. At least -- more so than their ancestors
>were 2,000 years ago.


I'm glad you added the qualification, because I wouldn't
have agreed with the first sentence standing alone.

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 15:13:38 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>No. But it does cause me to wonder what about them attracted
>followers.

They've been doing it for all of recorded history.
There's something about the human race, and I
think I know what it is, that causes them to feel
incomplete if they don't belong to one cockamamie
religious scheme or another. Non-religion is a
new thing - we're finally socially evolving past
sky-monster religion, I hope. Atheism used to
be punishable by death.

[CLOISTER]

How in the hell can you jump from bacon , hamburgers
and pork chops concluding that atheists never go
to a barbeque place.
Every post you made always concludes about how
much you hate religion....so you never go to
a hospital, university or cathedral and
wonder where these institutions came from?
You never see what groups run to help in disasters?

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 11:14:34 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>Maybe I should say that most of us mortals are the "product" of
>civilization. But only a few are actually civilized.


I feel that being "civilized" is an impossibility:
We can only try to be as far from being
"uncivilized" as we can personally, as
individuals, manage. We're just clever
monkeys though, and we have to limit our
expectations to what's feasible within a
given age and set of values.

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 11:11:32 -0400, Gary <w...@wre.com> wrote:

>The modern con-artist understands something the ancient preachers
>never thought of. And that is -- a political doctrine does not have
>to claim a deity in order for the dumb masses to follow it.
>
>That is why the Russians do not think Lenin is sitting in heaven
>listening to their prayers. They have dismissed that much loved and
>feared "sky monster" in favor of a few mortals who are only "godly"
>while they live. So today they treat their political and social
>leaders like gods. One of whom was Martin Luther King Jr. Who
>told them --- "I have a dream !" (and nothing else).


That's true, but it's also true IMV that theistic
religion is already a kind of dumb-assery, even
if somebody like Isaac Newton believes in it,
which to appearances he did. In that wise,
Isaac Newton was a dumbass IMV, though
he certainly was the opposite of a dumbass
in other realms. I think even Einstein
accepted some kind of theistic religion,
though he may have been a bit more shaded
as to whether he really believed it. It was a
necessity for living without persecution in the
past, just as professing loyalty to and love
for your king used to be a necessity unless
you wanted to turn your live a living hell
because of the scorn of the potentially
violent majority "believers" in addition to
exposing yourself to imprisonment or
worse. That's also why very few gay
people in the 19th century could "come
out". Those that did, back then, spent
the rest of their lives fighting the
opposition.

"All men are created equal" is a
fiction. Men are very obviously not all
equal. What the phrase really means
is that "All men should be treated as
though they were equal." That
fiction IMV produces a more livable
society than would be the case if
the fiction were not generally
accepted and everybody was placed
under social pressure to either
believe it or say they belied it. For
that reason I treat it as "true"
myself though I know it isn't. I doubt
that humanity can ever have a decent
society without some form of that
fiction. It's the condition of man,
and I don't see any way of getting
out of it without producing a worse
society than otherwise. That also
used to be the case with gay
people. Humanity in the most
"advanced" societies has gotten
past that now, most or "enough"
of us, though perhaps not in
Georgia, but in general I think
that a livable society inevitably
depends on some kind of "lying".
All we can do is try to make the
lying as un-damaging as
possible, and perhaps trade
one lie for another since we
can't live without lies.

[CLOISTER]

Another thread and another way to show
your hatred for religion. Beating a
dead horse, I think is the term.

[rumpelstiltskin]

In connection with the above, I was thinking
as I was shaving later (at noon!) of a poem of
Houseman's, from "A Shropshire Lad":

The stars have not dealt me the worst they could do:
My pleasures are plenty, my troubles are two.
But oh, my two troubles they reave me of rest,
The brains in my head and the heart in my breast.

Oh, grant me the ease that is granted so free,
The birthright of multitudes, give it to me,
That relish their victuals and rest on their bed
With flint in the bosom and guts in the head.

https://tinyurl.com/yybp4vmr