M A D O N N A
Donald Andrew Agarrat
you something ...
By the way, has anybody seen the "Erotic" video? I saw a clip and Madonna
reminded me of Annie Lennox 10 years ago in the video for "Sweet Dreams (Are
Made Of This)" ...
Donald - Nigger Stompin' African
Eamonn McManus
>By the way, has anybody seen the "Erotic" video? I saw a clip and Madonna
>reminded me of Annie Lennox 10 years ago in the video for "Sweet Dreams (Are
>Made Of This)" ...
I saw the video on MTV Europe last Saturday. It is *very* explicit,
not in bare bodies, but in things S&M. Even the French people present
(i.e., everybody except me) were pretty startled. We are placing bets
for how long it will last. Previous history (Prince's "Sexy
Motherfucker" becoming "Sexy [ridiculous scream]") does not bode well.
,
Eamonn
Matthew Melmon
Andrew Agarrat) wrote:
>
> Just the fact that Madonna is being discussed so thouroughly here should tell you something ...
More than that, that Adolphson is talking to *me* about Madonna here
should tell you something. Shameless Cabal baiting, I admit it...
> By the way, has anybody seen the "Erotic" video? I saw a clip and Madonna
> reminded me of Annie Lennox 10 years ago in the video for "Sweet Dreams (Are
> Made Of This)" ...
So the hair question has been answered? Short carrot top? Or was that
a poste Sweet Dreams Lennox?
Melmothra, ACC
Donald Andrew Agarrat
Nah, remember that "Love Is A Stranger" was the first single off of that album,
and Annie was a redhead then ... Madonna just has her blonde tresses slicked
down. Why is it that I like a lot a women with no hair?
Annie Lennox
Grace Jones
Sinead O'Connor
k. d. lang
Phranc
By the way, I used to have locks past my shoulders to my buttocks (well, not
quite). I suppose it was just a phase, but it was quite a feat for a black boy
to be galavanting the streets with ALL THAT HAIR! Last year(after about three
years of processing), I kinda went to the extreme and cut it into a VERY short
page boy ...
Bob Donahue
>you something ...
>By the way, has anybody seen the "Erotic" video? I saw a clip and Madonna
>reminded me of Annie Lennox 10 years ago in the video for "Sweet Dreams (Are
>Made Of This)" ...
Surprised? I don' think I've ever seen Madonna do anything
original - it's all rehash from someone else, with a little trash
thrown in for media flash.
Entertaining? Probably for many people. And that's just fine.
But in all seriousness sliced bread is still one great thing.
I once got into this ridiculous e-mail war with someone who
had a "quote" from Madonna in his .sig file, that really was in one
of Marilyn Monroe's movies. He insisted that even if someone said it
first, the fact that *she* said it meant it was more important... (Gack).
I suppose th Gettysburg address might become instantly memorized if she did
it - though I could see that being a very funny shtick...
BBC
(and since it seems that quotable material doesn't need to be original)
---- "The" --- BBC
OK OK 0 on the motss scale... how about
"Either this wallpaper goes, or I do."
(No, I can't bring myself to plagarize... my committee will be proud.)
Matthew Melmon
Donahue) wrote:
> Surprised? I don' think I've ever seen Madonna do anything
> original - it's all rehash from someone else, with a little trash
> thrown in for media flash.
Amazing. Yes, Donna Who has summed up the secrets of pulling in eighty
million dollars a year! Yes, folks, that's right! Just grab all you
can get from has-beens and throw in a little trash and *you* *too* can
be the highest paid working girl in the world...
*Bullshit*
But that's just Bob.
Melmothra, ACC
abe...@enh.nist.gov
again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again...
One would get the impression this were *important.*
(I never know whether to keep the period inside the asterisk, or outside.)
Sim Aberson Ft. Lauderdale, FL aberson%3328...@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie.... That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life. Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?" - Roseanne Arnold
Bob Donahue
>> Surprised? I don' think I've ever seen Madonna do anything
>> original - it's all rehash from someone else, with a little trash
>> thrown in for media flash.
>Amazing. Yes, Donna Who has summed up the secrets of pulling in eighty
>million dollars a year! Yes, folks, that's right! Just grab all you
>can get from has-beens and throw in a little trash and *you* *too* can
>be the highest paid working girl in the world...
Well, it worked for you...
Lap it all up... good doggie...
So, what is the lifetime of each successive "it" girl?
Most of them died before they fell out of the public eye, though
certainly Mae West kept it going for much longer. I suppose in Madonna;s
case we're seeing the combination of 25 years of feminism combined
with that schtick - she has more leeway to determine projects, etc
outside of a studio or other manipulative group. Not that they ain't
making their $$$ off her... But somehow I just don't see people
raving over "Who's that Girl?" or "Dick TRacy" in comparison to,
oh, "Some Like it Hot.", 10, 15, 20 years from now (or even now).
OK well then music maybe - but even then, we have legends
going back 20-30 years in rock now - I just can't see people going
gaga over the material girl in 2010AD. (As opposed to Tina Turner,
Cher, Aretha Franklin , etc. who have been performing since the 60's.)
Now of course here, Melmutt will interject some sort of ranking criteria
based upon $$$, asserting that none of the other made as much $$$.
I'm sure that the creator of the Pet Rock made a tidy sum the 20
minutes it was in vogue, it doesn't mean it outdoes a dog or a cat.
Of course if $$$ does mean that much, then it's obvious our
heroes will travel in different circles.
BBC
Loren I. Petrich
Well, Madonna has something coming up that some of you people
may be interested in, a book of her sexual fantasies called _Sex_. In
it, she makes out with people of both sexes, among other antics. For
example, there is reportedly a picture of her sucking one of model
Naomi Campbell's toes. She also will be coming out with a rather
raunchy album called "Erotica."
She has admitting to fantasizing about sex with women, but her
preferences are more on the hetero side. However, she is a confirmed
"fag hag", a straight woman who likes gay men. On "Truth or Dare", she
encourages two of her dancers to French kiss, and she once promised to
show up on Geraldo Rivera's show if only he would make out with MTV
reporter Kurt Loder.
She has had a long history of being gay-friendly, starting
with her ballet teacher Christopher Flynn (who died of AIDS not long
ago), who used to take her to gay bars, where the men were much more
in touch with themselves than the high-school football players.
She has had a taste for surrounding herself with handsome men
in her videos; she once confessed that she likes making men into sex
objects. Not that she doesn't make _herself_ into a sex object also :-)
Some of her co-workers are known gays; six of the seven
dancers on the "Blonde Ambition" tour were gay.
A summary of her career:
1958 or 1959: Born in Bay City, MI
1960's: Raised a strict Catholic in suburbs of Detroit, MI. Mother dies.
Early 1970's: Quits piano for dance lessons
~1976: Studies ballet on a scholarship in the University of Michigan
~1978: Goes to New York City with only $35 and studies modern dance
with several troupes.
~1979: Meets struggling rock musician Dan Gilroy. Goes to Paris,
invited by some French disco producers, whose best-known work is "Born
to be Alive" by Patrick Hernandez. Returns after going nowhere there.
Plays drums in Gilroy's band for awhile, then goes solo after Gilroy
doesn't appreciate competition for being the vocalist.
~1980: Fronts a series of bands; goes nowhere.
late 1981: Signed to Sire Records. Its head, Seymour Stein, invites
her to hospital bed for an interview.
1982: Early singles, "Everybody", "Physical Attraction" released. Some
think Madonna is black from her vocal style.
1983: Releases first album. "Burning Up" her first appearance on MTV.
"Holiday" does pretty well.
1984: Videos for "Borderline" and "Lucky Star" released. She releases
her second album, "Like a Virgin", and its video late that year. It is
about then that she is starting to become well-known.
1985: Releases video for "Material Girl", goes on "Virgin Tour". Movie
"Desperately Seeking Susan", with her as co-star, released to critical
acclaim. She marries Sean Penn.
1986: Movie "Shanghai Surprise", made with Sean and her as costars,
released. It flops miserably. She also releases her album "True Blue".
Her video "Papa Don't Preach" criticized as supposedly anti-abortion
by feminists.
1987: Goes on "Who's That Girl" tour; the movie of the same name
flops. Starts divorce proceedings, but withdraws them.
1988: Appears as a secretary in Broadway play "Speed the Plow"; the
other two characters are two sleazy Hollywood studio executives.
Sensational stories at the end of the year about Sean roughing her up.
1989: She divorces Sean early that year, then signs endorsement deal
with Pepsi. Releases "Like a Prayer" album and video, Pepsi pulls out
after video attacked for blasphemy.
1990: Goes on "Blond Ambition" tour, which gets denounced as
blasphemous by the Vatican. "Dick Tracy", with her costarring with
then-boyfriend Warren Beatty as the detective, released.
1991: Concert movie "Truth or Dare" released. Late that year, "The
Immaculate Collection" of her greatest hits released. Extra single on
it, "Justify my Love", has video made that MTV rejects as too raunchy
for its tastes.
1992 [so far]: "The Beast Within" remix of "Justify my Love" called
anti-Semitic. Movie, "A League of their Own", released, with Madonna
appearing as an outfielder, the limit of her interest in professional
sports. New album, "Erotica", and new book, _Sex_, still to come as I
write this.
/Loren
Crucifixes are sexy because there's a naked man on them -- Madonna
adolphson
rdon...@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> So, what is the lifetime of each successive "it" girl?
> Most of them died before they fell out of the public eye, though
> certainly Mae West kept it going for much longer.
The career of the It Girl herself, Clara Bow, lasted about 8 years
before she slid into schizophrenia. I suppose I should note for
our friend from Apple with the mind of an accountant that Clara Bow
received more fan mail (according to the Postmaster of Los Angeles,
she received 33,727 fan letters in May 1928) than any other star in
Hollywood history.
Dietrich's active film career lasted about 30 years (1923-1952),
but then she appeared all over the world in her nightclub act
until the mid 1970s. Do you think Madonna will still be jiggling
her titties before appreciative audiences all over the world 40 years
from now? I, for one, can't wait to see the 70 year old Madonna
reprise, for the 100,000th time, Express Yourself or Open Your Heart
or Justify My Love or Like a Virgin.
Arne
Jess Anderson
In article <1b3h51...@mizar.usc.edu>
adol...@mizar.usc.edu (Arne Adolphson) writes:
>The career of the It Girl herself, Clara Bow, lasted about 8
>years before she slid into schizophrenia. I suppose I
>should note for our friend from Apple with the mind of an
>accountant that Clara Bow received more fan mail (according
>to the Postmaster of Los Angeles, she received 33,727 fan
>letters in May 1928) than any other star in Hollywood
>history.
Your mind is obviously a Cesspool of Incidental Fact (this
is a compliment!).
>Dietrich's active film career lasted about 30 years
>(1923-1952), but then she appeared all over the world in her
>nightclub act until the mid 1970s. Do you think Madonna
>will still be jiggling her titties before appreciative
>audiences all over the world 40 years from now?
We can virtually guarantee that the trademark costumes will
have been left behind long before. I sincerely hope she
does have appreciative audiences 40 years from now. If she
does, she will necessarily have to have changed no small
amount in the interval and brought her audience through all
that intact. What she does now, I think, will not appeal to
the then new audience, though it's a precarious kind of
prediction to make.
In contrast, Dietrich did not have to change, for she
reached deeper (I think much deeper) into the human psyche
and found a self-expression with more nearly universal and
I'm sure more lasting resonances. The 70-year woman was
every bit as appealing -- including sex-appeal -- as she
had been 40 years before.
This not having to change, of course, is part of the dynamic
of becoming an icon, a real one, I mean. Indeed, the "with
it" kind of imagery that substitutes mere popularity for
fame in the age of MTV (I mean, is Vanilla Ice still alive
and why would anybody other than his mother care?) is
anti-iconic, supporting (wasn't it David Carleton's?) view
of Madonna as iconoclastic, actually.
>I, for one, can't wait to see the 70 year old Madonna
>reprise, for the 100,000th time, Express Yourself or Open
>Your Heart or Justify My Love or Like a Virgin.
That *music* isn't very likely to last. But contrast "Lili
Marlene" or "La Vie en Rose." And the latter song brings to
mind another quite different icon, Edith Piaf, about whom
much of the same sorts of arguments could be advanced, in
quite another context.
To pick a star who's less iconic than Piaf and considerably
more so than Madonna, I think (if you're a certain age and
used to gay bars, you might now wince) Barbra Streisand will
still appeal iconically a long time yet.
<> We shall not cease from exploration/ And the end of our exploring
<> Will be to arrive where we started/ And know the place for the first time.
<> -- T.S. Eliot
--
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: ande...@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: ande...@yak.macc.wisc.edu Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
>
[deletions]
>
>1992 [so far]: "The Beast Within" remix of "Justify my Love" called
>anti-Semitic. Movie, "A League of their Own", released, with Madonna
>appearing as an outfielder, the limit of her interest in professional
>sports. New album, "Erotica", and new book, _Sex_, still to come as I
>write this.
>
You left out her appearance in Woody Allen's SHADOWS AND
FOG, as, if memory serves, a circus performer who puts the
moves on John Malkovich. Minor role, creditably performed.
--
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Matthew Melmon
wrote:
> 1992 [so far]: "The Beast Within" remix of "Justify my Love" called
> anti-Semitic. Movie, "A League of their Own", released, with Madonna
> appearing as an outfielder, the limit of her interest in professional
> sports. New album, "Erotica", and new book, _Sex_, still to come as I
> write this.
She also appeared as a circus performer in a movie by another of this
year's "sex fiends..."
Melmothra, ACC
Rod Williams
>> 1992 [so far]: "The Beast Within" remix of "Justify my Love" called
>> anti-Semitic. Movie, "A League of their Own", released, with Madonna
>> appearing as an outfielder, the limit of her interest in professional
>> sports. New album, "Erotica", and new book, _Sex_, still to come as I
>> write this.
>
>She also appeared as a circus performer in a movie by another of this
>year's "sex fiends..."
...and will shortly appear as a sex fiend *and* circus performer
in a $50 book, tastefully wrapped in opaque mylar to protect the
delicate sensibilities of the average bookstore browser...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjw...@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
John Dorrance
>making their $$$ off her... But somehow I just don't see people
>raving over "Who's that Girl?" or "Dick TRacy" in comparison to,
>oh, "Some Like it Hot.", 10, 15, 20 years from now (or even now).
Noone says she can act.
> OK well then music maybe - but even then, we have legends
>going back 20-30 years in rock now - I just can't see people going
>gaga over the material girl in 2010AD.
(I've often heard this kind of thing said about modern music forms;
'Is anyone going to be listening to this noise 20 years from now?'
Well, duh. Sinatra hasn't disappeared; neither have the Beatles or
the Rolling Stones or the motherfucking Eagles. It's just fear of
change that makes people say shit like that. It's not what *I*
listened to; how *can* it be good?)
>(As opposed to Tina Turner,
>Cher, Aretha Franklin , etc. who have been performing since the 60's.)
Fuck that noise. You seem to think everyone still likes TT & Cher &
Aretha, but that's just nostalgia talking. Most young people could
care less about them (except maybe Cher, because she's doing the
Madonna thing). And you can betcher ass *I'll* be nostalgic about
Madonna 20 years from now (not that she's not halfway there already;
She's been pretty consistently hot for *10* *years*. Does that not
mean anything?).
People probly had these same conversations about the Beatles or about
Marilyn Monroe too back when the youths loved them and the adults
just couldn't understand. Let's just wait and see and quit wasting
our breaths, shall we?
--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * tha...@cwis.unomaha.edu
Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
Bob Donahue
>>making their $$$ off her... But somehow I just don't see people
>>raving over "Who's that Girl?" or "Dick TRacy" in comparison to,
>>oh, "Some Like it Hot.", 10, 15, 20 years from now (or even now).
>Noone says she can act.
>> OK well then music maybe - but even then, we have legends
>>going back 20-30 years in rock now - I just can't see people going
>>gaga over the material girl in 2010AD.
>(I've often heard this kind of thing said about modern music forms;
>'Is anyone going to be listening to this noise 20 years from now?'
>Well, duh. Sinatra hasn't disappeared; neither have the Beatles or
>the Rolling Stones or the motherfucking Eagles. It's just fear of
>change that makes people say shit like that. It's not what *I*
>listened to; how *can* it be good?)
Read it again. I wasn't referring to some specific work, I was
referring to her as the "performer who masturbates on stage", etc.
After 25 years, the novelty will wear off. Now, people might still
like the music then (as you've said with your examples above), and
putting the stage show events in context to the late-80's, OK.
>>(As opposed to Tina Turner,
>>Cher, Aretha Franklin , etc. who have been performing since the 60's.)
>Fuck that noise. You seem to think everyone still likes TT & Cher &
>Aretha, but that's just nostalgia talking. Most young people could
>care less about them (except maybe Cher, because she's doing the
>Madonna thing). And you can betcher ass *I'll* be nostalgic about
>Madonna 20 years from now (not that she's not halfway there already;
>She's been pretty consistently hot for *10* *years*. Does that not
>mean anything?).
Who cares about young people in this regard? Some of the
"hottest thing to hit the planet" acts have been, oh Duran Duran,
New Kids on the Block, the Osmonds, the list goes on forever.
What I meant was that Madonna is not the only womon to hit it big
in the pop-music industry and that some of the other womyn have
been around and not relegated to the cocktail lounge at the
Holiday Inn for over 20 years. She might grab a lot of limelight now,
but that's not a given it will be so in 2005. And while I'm no
great fan of Cher (I don't dislike her or anything) I really really
doubt that she woke up one morning and said "you know I bet I could
have a comeback if I was more like Madonna".
>People probly had these same conversations about the Beatles or about
>Marilyn Monroe too back when the youths loved them and the adults
>just couldn't understand. Let's just wait and see and quit wasting
>our breaths, shall we?
I don't deny that, but it's funny that at the same time we
have people making the claims that Madonna is the mostest icon
ever, when at the same time there is no evidence that in the
long run she won't be (as Steve Dyer well put it) the Debbie Harry
of the early-90's.
BBC
Jess Anderson
In article <1992Oct10.1...@spdcc.com>
rdon...@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>Who cares about young people in this regard?
Tsk.
Ron Buckmire
>I saw the video on MTV Europe last Saturday. It is *very* explicit,
>not in bare bodies, but in things S&M. Even the French people present
>(i.e., everybody except me) were pretty startled. We are placing bets
>for how long it will last. Previous history (Prince's "Sexy
>Motherfucker" becoming "Sexy [ridiculous scream]") does not bode well.
Well, MTV is only playing "EROTICA" after midnight, and the song itself is not
explicit in any wa so that it can be played on Top40 stations all over America..
--
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buc...@rpitsmts.bitnet||buc...@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Samuel R. Delany, Jodie Foster, Barry Diller, Martina Navratilova, k. d. lang,
Audre Lorde, David Geffen, Bob Jackson-Paris, Greg Louganis, Whitney Houston.
Ron Buckmire
>> By the way, has anybody seen the "Erotic" video? I saw a clip and Madonna
>> reminded me of Annie Lennox 10 years ago in the video for "Sweet Dreams (Are
>> Made Of This)" ...
>So the hair question has been answered? Short carrot top? Or was that
>a poste Sweet Dreams Lennox?
Well, actually the resemblance is in the eye-makeup moreso than the hairstyle.
--
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. **Clinton-Gore '92!**
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buc...@rpi.edu buc...@rpitsmts.bitnet
"If a bullet should enter my brain, let that bullet destroy every closet door."
-Harvey Milk
Ron Buckmire
Does anyone else find this Madonna discussion just a little bit RIDICULOUS?
I feel like I've channeled into talk.abortion. Pro and anti people just ranting
and raving at each other with no real hope of changing the other's position
on the issue at hand.
GIVE IT UP, girlz! :-)
adolphson
buc...@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
> Does anyone else find this Madonna discussion just a
> little bit RIDICULOUS?
Oh, I'm sure there are people who find it ridiculous.
They can hit their "n" or "k" keys and follow other,
less ridiculous threads instead. Such as the one that
seems to confuse good tailoring with haute couture.
(Haute couture is *always* well tailored. The best
tailor in the world can sew you up an absolutely marvy
self-belted leisure suit in lime green plaid.)
> I feel like I've channeled into talk.abortion. Pro and anti people
> just ranting and raving at each other with no real hope of changing
> the other's position on the issue at hand.
My mission here is to expound on faggy cultural issues.
If you're not interested in following a discussion that
touches on Mary Pickford's megalomania, Ella Fitzgerald's
cruddy TV show, Jane Russell's slutty outfit in _The French
Line_, and Renee Falconetti, then you can always read about
someone else's culinary habits. Or you can follow the
horrors taking place in Oregon and Colorado.
> GIVE IT UP, girlz! :-)
When someone claims that Mary Pickford was the model for
Norma Desmond? Not on your life!
Arne
Jess Anderson
>Does anyone else find this Madonna discussion just a little
>bit RIDICULOUS?
Au contraire, big guy. It started out being ridiculous,
but it's just now getting interesting, which ...
>GIVE IT UP, girlz! :-)
... is the hardly the time to do that.
Steve Dyer
Barring Melmon's occasional articles, no, I don't.
>I feel like I've channeled into talk.abortion. Pro and anti people just ranting
>and raving at each other with no real hope of changing the other's position
>on the issue at hand.
And pray tell, my man, just what is "the issue at hand?" I don't think
it's about Madonna at all, past a certain superficial point, and I think
many of the points raised have been quite insightful.
>GIVE IT UP, girlz! :-)
Yeah, let's get back to more interesting things, whatever they might be...
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Bob Donahue
>>Who cares about young people in this regard?
>Tsk.
Oops! Mea culpa --- a zillion pardons.
BBC
Ron Buckmire
>Yeah, let's get back to more interesting things, whatever they might be...
Umm, Steve, there is a rather important election occurring on November 3 in
the United States.
But I'm not saying that MADONNA is not more important than whoever the next
President of the United States-- perish the thought!
:-)
--
Matthew Melmon
Donahue) wrote:
> I don't deny that, but it's funny that at the same time we
> have people making the claims that Madonna is the mostest icon
> ever, when at the same time there is no evidence that in the
> long run she won't be (as Steve Dyer well put it) the Debbie Harry
> of the early-90's.
Bullshit. Nobody has claimed Madonna is the 'mostest icon ever.' The
claim is simply that Madonna *is* an icon. Furthermore, you yourself,
in a fit of profound wit, having provided evidence to the very effect
that Madonna will *not* be the Debbie Harry of the early 90's: Duran
Duran. New Kids on the Block. Tiffany. These bands have come and *gone*
within the span of Madonna's career. She has *already* proven to
be of a different ilk. Furthermore, her vast wealth guarantees her
media presence whenever and wherever she wishes. It was with a *snort*
that Dolphie responded to my contention that Madonna was 'a Major.'
But with a personal income of nearly *100* million dollars, Madonna
herself has the net revenues of a large studio. She's not going
to disappear "in the early 90's" (which is where we are right *now*, yes?)
And while *wealth* seems to be viewed as a relatively minor accomplishment
around here - irrespective of Bob Donohue's opinion of it, *wealth*
is a wonderful tool when it comes to getting what you want. And Madonna
*wants* to be famous.
Melmothra, ACC
Matthew Melmon
wrote:
> (Haute couture is *always* well tailored. The best
> tailor in the world can sew you up an absolutely marvy
> self-belted leisure suit in lime green plaid.)
How true, how true.
> My mission here is to expound on faggy cultural issues.
> If you're not interested in following a discussion that
> touches on Mary Pickford's megalomania, Ella Fitzgerald's
> cruddy TV show, Jane Russell's slutty outfit in _The French
> Line_, and Renee Falconetti
Who is Renee Falconetti?
>
> > GIVE IT UP, girlz! :-)
>
> When someone claims that Mary Pickford was the model for
> Norma Desmond? Not on your life!
And I'm right... *smooch*
Melmothra, ACC
Steve Dyer
>>Yeah, let's get back to more interesting things, whatever they might be...
>Umm, Steve, there is a rather important election occurring on November 3 in
>the United States.
Um, sarcasm again. It *is* possible to discuss both simultaneously,
y'know!
>But I'm not saying that MADONNA is not more important than whoever the next
>President of the United States-- perish the thought!
Well, just the idea of watching the debates last night nauseated me.
So let me tell you what I did (really): watched BBC's tape of the
season premiere of STtNG (ick, such drek after such a cliffhanger), followed
by the rereleased EMI video of Callas' 1958 gala at the Paris Opera.
Jake Coughlin
> I, for one, can't wait to see the 70 year old Madonna
> reprise, for the 100,000th time, Express Yourself or Open Your Heart
> or Justify My Love or Like a Virgin.
reprise? don't you mean "rewrite"?
--
Queer Without A Cause!
Jason Coughlin ( ja...@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Matthew Melmon
wrote:
> But I'm not saying that MADONNA is not more important than whoever the next
> President of the United States-- perish the thought!
Specifically, no. It would be silly. However, the thread is really
about more than Madonna. As are the other threads where she has been
a central topic. The woman Madonna is interesting. But the cultural
force she represents - or has wrapped around her finger - is more than
interesting. And *it* is more important than this farce of an
election. Indeed, much that makes the election a farce parallels
what has made Madonna, in my view, an icon. (As an aside, I would
rate Madonna's savvy higher - *much* higher - than that of our two
Presidential candidates combined).
Contrary to popular opinion, I am not thrilled with the reduction of
cultural to an MTV soundbite. Where the person's entire being is
honestly portrayed as an MTV soudbite - as is the case with Madonna -
I have no problem. More power to them. Where the person is running
for the office of President, I have a problem. In national politics,
we could use a lot more of Perot's half-hour informercials and a lot
less of the crap coming out of both 'major' parties. Perot has a
knack for manipulating statistics. That's fine. At least he's
talking about statistics. At least he's talking about the economy.
There was a political cartoon - the cartoonist thinking himself
*very* clever, I'm sure - where Bush and Clinton both speak one
word: Trust and Change respectivley. Perot is ridiculed for going
on and on.
When we're talking about the future of the nation, perhaps *one* word
is not sufficient?
Perot, I think, would not make for a very fine President. But I
do wish some elements of his campaign would be mirrored by the
others.
Both Bush and Clinton are *pretending* to be Madonna - or like her.
They're going for short, attention getting orgasms of negative
political advertising. I prefer it if those seeking to run the
nation leave the short, attention getting orgasms to people who
are both better at it, and who make no claim to be anything other
than what they are.
Melmothra, ACC
Bob Donahue
>Both Bush and Clinton are *pretending* to be Madonna - or like her.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
OK, OK I admit I nearly fell off my chair after reading this.
Jess - this is the quote du semaine perhaps de siecle.
At the moment I can't recall something as stupid compressed into
something less than 80 characters. Hmmmm.. "Melmon: the concentrate
cluelessness comes from - now available in spray cans".
I've finally figured out who MElmon reminds me of: think
along the lines of the bitchy-queen wannabe version of the surfer
guy in "Ruthless People"...
[oooooh, and that reminds me of portable vacuum cleaners --- ObMotss]
BBC
Bob Donahue
>But with a personal income of nearly *100* million dollars, Madonna
>herself has the net revenues of a large studio. She's not going
>to disappear "in the early 90's" (which is where we are right *now*, yes?)
>And while *wealth* seems to be viewed as a relatively minor accomplishment
>around here - irrespective of Bob Donohue's opinion of it, *wealth*
>is a wonderful tool when it comes to getting what you want. And Madonna
>*wants* to be famous.
Fame != wealth. In fact I would state that most famous people
were not wealthy in their lifetimes, especially in the art world.
Otherwise we cwould not have the icon of the talented person who
lives fast and squanders all to die a pauper.
`
At the other end of the scale, wealth does not fame.
From your formula, Leona Helmsley could cut an album in prison,
and after 10 years of doing so, become an icon because she is famous,
she cut an album and she is wealthy.
On the *other* hand, I have to admit that I can equally
find an example that completely supports this! -Florence Foster Jennings.
A womon who was 1) *wealthy* 2) musical, and 3) an icon, within the
confines of those she, um, touched. Certainly she had few if any
peers. :-) [FredBear got me this CD for my birthday - I was
quite, um, overwhelmed!] Who elkse would have the bravada to sing
the Bell Song from Lakme legato? Sheer genius. Inspirational.
One has to question the morals of someone who would use
the phrase "wealth is apwerful tool when it comes to getting
what you want". I only hope that is not so in the long run.
Otherwise we are in for a rude shock (well more like another rude
shock, though some of us MM have been too intellectually comatose to notice).
[In part I am referring here to the lates OR polls. The
support for/against 9 is *****very***** partisan! One guess which
party supports 9 close to 2:1 - hint: it's the same party that
generally has the people with more *wealth* trying to use such
to get what they want.]
Oh - sorry to drag reality back into things.
BBC
Jess Anderson
In article <1992Oct13.1...@spdcc.com>
rdon...@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>ma...@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>>Both Bush and Clinton are *pretending* to be Madonna - or
>>like her.
>At the moment I can't recall something as stupid compressed
>into something less than 80 characters.
Well, I think it's the most nearly correct thing he's ever
said. You forget that he's illiterate. What he means is
that Pres and Pres-to-be would like to market themselves to
a gullible public as successfully as Madonna does.
Content is irrelevant, form is everything. Though it's a
pitiful fact, Madonna more content than either candidate
does.
However, I will admit that the idea of Bush cavorting around
the debate platform in a cone-tit bustiere *is* hilarious.
Might as well give Clinton a nose job and dye/perm his hair
and let 'im be the Michael Jackson clone. This could be the
seed of a good political cartoon.
Steve Dyer
and wit that Madonna is the Mary Pickford of the 90's.
Wow, I'm glad we can get off THAT topic!
Jess Anderson
In article <1992Oct13....@spdcc.com> dy...@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:
>Matthew has finally convinced me by the inexorable force of argument
>and wit that Madonna is the Mary Pickford of the 90's.
Was that the *force* of Matthew's argument, or just the
*weight* of it?
Matthew Melmon
Donahue) wrote:
>
> ma...@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> >Both Bush and Clinton are *pretending* to be Madonna - or like her.
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>
> OK, OK I admit I nearly fell off my chair after reading this.
God, you are pathetic. First, there was the screaching cries of
outrage over my contention that "Family Values" was a ploy. Heard
a lot about "Family Values" lately? There was even that ridiculous
'apology' to Murphy Brown.
A ploy.
Now, I'm pointing out that Bush and Clinton are trying to be media
celebrities. Whhsssshs! Right over your head (the one you *can*
get up in the morning). Perhaps I can remind you of a few campaign
events: Clinton on Arsenio Hall. Clinton on MTV.
MTV, Donahue. That prestigious bastion of hard-core journalism.
Yes, Clinton, aging, plump, nasal... but hip! Vote for me! I was on
MTV! Me!
I wouldn't have thought it likely, Donna, but you really *are* an
idiot.
Melmothra, ACC
Matthew Melmon
(Jess Anderson) wrote:
> Well, I think it's the most nearly correct thing he's ever
> said. You forget that he's illiterate. What he means is
> that Pres and Pres-to-be would like to market themselves to
> a gullible public as successfully as Madonna does.
>
> Content is irrelevant, form is everything. Though it's a
> pitiful fact, Madonna more content than either candidate
> does.
>
> However, I will admit that the idea of Bush cavorting around
> the debate platform in a cone-tit bustiere *is* hilarious.
> Might as well give Clinton a nose job and dye/perm his hair
> and let 'im be the Michael Jackson clone. This could be the
> seed of a good political cartoon.
In a shockingly cruel twist of fate, I am forced to admit that
I agree with everything here. Including the political cartoon.
But political cartoonists would probably have much the same
reaction that Donahue had: Like Madonna? Are you crazy?
But it is the case. More sad: Madonna does have more content
than either candidate. She is certainly a vocal champion of
the gay and lesbian community. Clinton can't say the words fast
enough to get them off his tongue. Madonna is always in the company
of an ethnically diverse crowd. Madonna puts her personal fame
and fortune behind causes like the war against AIDS. And, of course,
she *is* a she...
Madonna is not *all* hype, and probably less so than either of the
major candidates.
Melmothra, ACC
Terrance Heath
>emcm...@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>
>>I saw the video on MTV Europe last Saturday. It is *very* explicit,
>>not in bare bodies, but in things S&M. Even the French people present
>>(i.e., everybody except me) were pretty startled. We are placing bets
>>for how long it will last. Previous history (Prince's "Sexy
>>Motherfucker" becoming "Sexy [ridiculous scream]") does not bode well.
>
>Well, MTV is only playing "EROTICA" after midnight, and the song itself is not
>explicit in any wa so that it can be played on Top40 stations all over America..
>
I heard the song for the first time today, on MTV. It was during one
of their dance parties, around 5pm this evening. They got away with
it by showing abut two seconds of the video. I've been staying up late
to get to see the whole thing, but I've been missing it. Anyway, the
song had me dancing around my room, but then I love everything the
woman does.
I just want that album when it comes out...OCTOBER 20!!!!!!
--
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath
he...@athena.cs.uga.edu
Bob Donahue
>> ma...@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>> >Both Bush and Clinton are *pretending* to be Madonna - or like her.
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>> OK, OK I admit I nearly fell off my chair after reading this.
>God, you are pathetic.
>Now, I'm pointing out that Bush and Clinton are trying to be media
>celebrities. Whhsssshs! Right over your head (the one you *can*
>get up in the morning).
Haven't heard any complaints... What run out of stoopid
things to say that land anywhere near the topic at hand? No, don't
react, I don't really care.
>I wouldn't have thought it likely, Donna, but you really *are* an
>idiot.
Coming from you, this doesn't move me. In fact, it probably
does more for my reputation than anything else.
Pooooooooor Matthew. No one paid attention to him as a tyke
and now we have this. How dull.
*But* I think I've figured out who Matthew is: Anyone read
"The Best Little Boy in the World?"
BBC
FJ!!
night. Guess what the new look really is: not early Annie Lennox, but
Twiggy.
That's right, the hair is short and blond and slicked back around the
head with two small plastic flowers in it, both upper and lower
eye-lashes are very prominenent, eye-liner is black and heavy,
eye-shadow is uniform and grey, cheekbones are hardly there.
She pulls it off, except for that ridiculous gold front tooth.
FJ!!
John Flanagan
>In article <rax...@rpi.edu> buc...@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>emcm...@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>>
>>>I saw the video on MTV Europe last Saturday. It is *very* explicit,
>>>not in bare bodies, but in things S&M. Even the French people present
>>>(i.e., everybody except me) were pretty startled.
>>
>>itself is not
>>explicit in any wa so that it can be played on Top40 stations all
>>over America..
>
>I heard the song for the first time today, on MTV. It was during one
>of their dance parties, around 5pm this evening. They got away with
>it by showing abut two seconds of the video.
I saw the whole video the other day at a nightclub. What's the big
deal? There's no explicit sex in it, and the SM is pretty stylized.
Boring song, to boot.
She's trying too hard.
--John
--
John Flanagan ||"Pretty boys
jo...@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822 || -- My Bloody Valentine
Michael O Thomas
quoting Nicholas Winterton, Tory M.P. and guardian of public morals,
on the new book by Maddona:
"This is a vile, obscene and pornographic book which features
explicit sexual references and sado-masochistic scenes. It is quite
wrong that material of this kind should be available, particularly
to young children, for whom this individual may be considered
something of an icon."
^^^^
Say no more.
Mike.
m...@uk.ac.aber "When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro." - HST
Jess Anderson
In article <1992Oct19.1...@aber.ac.uk>
m...@aber.ac.uk (Michael O Thomas) writes:
]Reprinted without permission from Fridays Independant (typos mine),
]quoting Nicholas Winterton, Tory M.P. and guardian of public morals,
]on the new book by Maddona:
]"This is a vile, obscene and pornographic book which features
]explicit sexual references and sado-masochistic scenes. It is quite
]wrong that material of this kind should be available, particularly
]to young children, for whom this individual may be considered
]something of an icon."
] ^^^^
] Say no more.
Say no more to young children, anyway...
John Dorrance
>In article <1992Oct19.1...@aber.ac.uk>
>m...@aber.ac.uk (Michael O Thomas) writes:
>]Reprinted without permission from Fridays Independant (typos mine),
>]quoting Nicholas Winterton, Tory M.P. and guardian of public morals,
>]on the new book by Maddona:
>
>]"This is a vile, obscene and pornographic book which features
>]explicit sexual references and sado-masochistic scenes. It is quite
>]wrong that material of this kind should be available, particularly
>]to young children, for whom this individual may be considered
>]something of an icon."
>] ^^^^
>] Say no more.
>Say no more to young children, anyway...
Yeah. Wait until they're at least 6.
--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * tha...@cwis.unomaha.edu
Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!