Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Contributed
B.H. Cramer
a-little-sanity
B.H. Cramer <ben_a...@beltingyids.com> wrote:
[...]
During the summer of 1944, 437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported
to Auschwitz, as proved e.g. by Veesenmayer's report (see
http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=334,
Braham, op. cit., p. 443. A facsimile of the document can also be found in
Piper, Die Zahl der Opfer, p. 123).
In January 1945, the last roll-call reported 67,000 inmates
in the entire Auschwitz camp.
What happened to these 437,000 Hungarian Jews, and to all the
other hundreds-of-thousands people deported to Auschwitz?
Hint: at exactly the same time as the deportation started,
the number of workers manning the camp's four huge crematoriums
leaped from an already very high 200 to no less than 900
(http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.shtml).
RJ11
(snip)
This is unspecified, unverifiable drivel.
And you're *still* citing the Red Cross, although they have
clearly and unequivocally stated that they never tried to
estimate the number of victims nor did they ever have the
means to do so. Lame, doper. Very lame.
"Consequently the ICRC considers it must make clear the fact that
it has never published -- or even compiled -- statistics of this kind
which are being falsely attributed to it. The work of the ICRC is to
help war victims, not to count them. In any case, how could its
delegates have obtained data for such statistics? They were able to
enter only a few concentration camps, and then only in the final days
of the war. Everything the ICRC tried to do for the inmates of those
camps, and what it finally managed to do, is related in its report
entitled 'The Work of the ICRC for Civilian Detainees in German
Concentration Camps from 1939 to 1945' (available in English, French
and German).
The same propaganda scheme has recently been making use of other
figures, namely the number of deaths recorded by the International
Tracing Service on the basis of documents found when the camps were
closed. Obviously this number bears no relation -- though the authors
of the propaganda pretend otherwise -- to the total deaths in
concentration camps; firstly because a considerable quantity of
documentary material was destroyed before the departure of the Nazi
administration, and secondly because many deaths were never recorded,
such as those which occurred in the extermination camps where records
were generally not kept."
Source: Bulletin No. 25 of the International Committee of the Red
Cross, 1 February 1978.
RJ.
Patrick Keenan
It's interesting that the link that "Mr. Cramer" presents for his nonsense
acknowledges its debt to the Iranian government.
The Adelaide group is happy to accept money from a repressive regime, but
says *nothing* to criticise that regime.
I wonder why. Perhaps that would end the funding?
They promote a "conference" and call for open debate, but don't dare mention
that the "conference" actively prevented the possibility of real open debate
by force of arms.
And so we can know that their calls for "free speech" and "open debate" are
entirely hypocritical, and of no more value than their "scholarship".
-pk
Morbid Fungus
wrote:
> [...]
>
> During the summer of 1944, 437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported
> Braham, op. cit., p. 443. A facsimile of the document can also be found in
> Piper, Die Zahl der Opfer, p. 123).
>
> In January 1945, the last roll-call reported 67,000 inmates
> in the entire Auschwitz camp.
>
> What happened to these 437,000 Hungarian Jews, and to all the
> other hundreds-of-thousands people deported to Auschwitz?
>
> Hint: at exactly the same time as the deportation started,
> the number of workers manning the camp's four huge crematoriums
> leaped from an already very high 200 to no less than 900
Ah, yes, still another variation on the ultimate fall-back position of
the Holocaust crowd: what happened to the "missing Jews?" The
argument goes: records show Jews were located in one place, but Jews
are no longer in that place; therefore, the Jews once in that place
must have been horribly murdered.
In this case, the poster offers a twisted fabrication to support the
proposition that Jews were missing and therefore killed. The lie is
that activity at the crematoriums at Auschwitz increased during the
time the Jews were supposed to have been there. But when we examine
the writings of one of the heroes of the Holocaust legend, Jean-Claude
Pressac, we find that activity did not increase, in at least two of
the major crematoriums, activities stopped entirely.
According to that famous pharmacist Pressac, the heroic historian
of the hokey Holocaust, two of the largest crematoriums, Kremas IV and
V, were not even operating at the time.
Here is a quote from Pressac's illustrious and well illlustrated book
of Holocaust bull:
"At the end of May 1944, most of the Sonderkommando men were
transferred from Block 11 of the Men's Camp to Krematorium IV, which
was converted into a dormitory for them. According to Dragon there
were 700 of them, which would mean that ALL of Krematorium IV except
for the furnace room and its annexes was occupied by the prisoners'
bunks and no homicidal gassings would have been possible there as from
this date."
The mythical homicidal ovens at Krema V were also out of commission.
Another quote from Pressac:
"...As Krematorium V had to handle all the cremations for a period of
almost two months, its furnace must have suffered accordingly,...
However, as it was used more moderately it was still
semi-operational when it was mothballed at the end of June or the
begining of July 1943."
Source: Pressac, _Technique_, pp.386,389.
So, we find that IV was being used as a dormitory and V was mothballed
during the time when all those Hungarian Jews were passing through
Auschwitz. The workers weren't "manning" Krema IV, they were sleeping
there. Krema V was used for storage. Nothing---nothing---was
happening at those facilities. The Hungarian Jews who passed through
Auschwitz were not killed there---they just passed through there on
their way to other work camps where they survived to claim reparations
after the war.
ZuLu
> http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/2006December/contents_numbers.htm
You can add 3 millions as given on the French documentary
"De Nuremberg a Nuremberg", 1994
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0271455/
Frederic Rossif received assistance from a French scholar to make his movie.
a-little-sanity
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> On Mar 22, 2:35 am, a-little-sanity, please <ratio...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>> During the summer of 1944, 437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported
>> to Auschwitz, as proved e.g. by Veesenmayer's report
>> ( see http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i...,
>> Braham, op. cit., p. 443. A facsimile of the document can also be found in
>> Piper, Die Zahl der Opfer, p. 123).
>>
>> In January 1945, the last roll-call reported 67,000 inmates
>> in the entire Auschwitz camp.
>>
>> What happened to these 437,000 Hungarian Jews, and to all the
>> other hundreds-of-thousands people deported to Auschwitz?
>>
>> Hint: at exactly the same time as the deportation started,
>> the number of workers manning the camp's four huge crematoriums
>> leaped from an already very high 200 to no less than 900
>> (http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.s...).
> Ah, yes, still another variation on the ultimate fall-back position of
> the Holocaust crowd: what happened to the "missing Jews?"
Well, what happened to them?
> So, we find that IV was being used as a dormitory and V was mothballed
> during the time when all those Hungarian Jews were passing through
> Auschwitz.
"passing"? Where to?
> The workers weren't "manning" Krema IV, they were sleeping
> there.
That's a lie, for the following two reasons:
1) Numerous corpses were burned in the open, in the crematorium yard.
this is proved by testimonies, as well as aerial and ground photographs.
2) The 900 workers are listed as stokers. Where they slept is irrelevant;
the fact remains that just as the Hungarian Jews began arriving in
Auschwitz, the number of stokers leaped from 200 to 900.
m-weber
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> "...As Krematorium V had to handle all the cremations for a period of
> almost two months, its furnace must have suffered accordingly,...
That's strange. As even your cohort "zulu" agrees, the Gusen
crematorium with its two muffles could burn 122 corpses a day.
And in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS installed 46 muffles. Why
did some of them break down from overuse?
Seems they had to burn a really, really, really huge number
of corpses, huh?
> The Hungarian Jews who passed through
> Auschwitz were not killed there---they just passed through there on
> their way to other work camps
Whoa, bucko, hold it right there. What camps? Where are the
transportation records to these camps? Since entire populations
were deported, a great many of these 437,000 Hungarian Jews
were children and infants. Name the camps from which corresponding
numbers of children and infants were released, please, and
consider that these 437,000 people were just a fraction of the
total number of Jews under Nazi rule.
Morbid Fungus
wrote:
> In article <2a47acac-690a-4ecf-b58d-4e31efa5f...@f41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 22, 2:35 am, a-little-sanity, please <ratio...@nospam.com>
> > wrote:
> >> During the summer of 1944, 437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported
> >> to Auschwitz, as proved e.g. by Veesenmayer's report
> >> Braham, op. cit., p. 443. A facsimile of the document can also be found in
> >> Piper, Die Zahl der Opfer, p. 123).
>
> >> In January 1945, the last roll-call reported 67,000 inmates
> >> in the entire Auschwitz camp.
>
> >> What happened to these 437,000 Hungarian Jews, and to all the
> >> other hundreds-of-thousands people deported to Auschwitz?
>
> >> Hint: at exactly the same time as the deportation started,
> >> the number of workers manning the camp's four huge crematoriums
> >> leaped from an already very high 200 to no less than 900
> >> (http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.s...).
> > Ah, yes, still another variation on the ultimate fall-back position of
> > the Holocaust crowd: what happened to the "missing Jews?"
>
> Well, what happened to them?
>
> > So, we find that IV was being used as a dormitory and V was mothballed
> > during the time when all those Hungarian Jews were passing through
> > Auschwitz.
>
> "passing"? Where to?
>
> > The workers weren't "manning" Krema IV, they were sleeping
> > there.
>
> That's a lie, for the following two reasons:
>
> 1) Numerous corpses were burned in the open, in the crematorium yard.
> this is proved by testimonies, as well as aerial and ground photographs.
Speaking of lies, the "testimonies" that bodies were burned in deep
pits in swampy Auschwitz were exposed as lies when the engineers from
Hydrokop bored over 300 holes searching for those burning pits and
found (wait for it) Nothing!
>
> 2) The 900 workers are listed as stokers. Where they slept is irrelevant;
> the fact remains that just as the Hungarian Jews began arriving in
> Auschwitz, the number of stokers leaped from 200 to 900.- Hide
You forget that the synthetic rubber manufacturing plant at Auschwitz
used coke fired furnaces in production and every single barrack
housing inmates contained large coke heaters for the comfort of the
inmates. Stokers were needed all over the camp. But you can't gas
people when the stokers are sleeping in all the rooms.
Morbid Fungus
> In article <2a47acac-690a-4ecf-b58d-4e31efa5f...@f41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> > "...As Krematorium V had to handle all the cremations for a period of
> > almost two months, its furnace must have suffered accordingly,...
>
> That's strange. As even your cohort "zulu" agrees, the Gusen
> crematorium with its two muffles could burn 122 corpses a day.
> And in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS installed 46 muffles. Why
> did some of them break down from overuse?
I don't know what "Zulu" said, but I know that tests have shown that
it takes a minimum of at least one hour to cremate a human body no
matter how much energy is applied. Under everyday circumstances and
using those crude coke-fired furnaces at Gusen, the most two ovens
could cremate in a 24 hour day would have been about 24.
>
> Seems they had to burn a really, really, really huge number
> of corpses, huh?
>
> > The Hungarian Jews who passed through
> > Auschwitz were not killed there---they just passed through there on
> > their way to other work camps
>
> Whoa, bucko, hold it right there. What camps? Where are the
> transportation records to these camps?
Show us one---just one---order signed by any official, military or
civilian, or one---just one---report of gassings at Auschwitz, or any
other camp for that matter, signed by any person, military or
civilian, at any time.
Since entire populations
> were deported, a great many of these 437,000 Hungarian Jews
> were children and infants. Name the camps from which corresponding
> numbers of children and infants were released, please, and
> consider that these 437,000 people were just a fraction of the
> total number of Jews under Nazi rule.
And 437,000 is just a fraction of the total number of the millions of
Jews who showed up after the war to demand reparations. It seems the
"missing" Jews turned up after all.
I'll Always Be 23-03-09
9f0f-5bf...@v1g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
The buna was produced at Monowitz (Auschwitz III) not Auschwitz II
(Birkenau)
Why was it that suddenly, at that late stage of the game, over four times
as much stoking was required for synthetic rubber
I'll Always Be 23-03-09
83f8-060...@j18g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
> On Mar 22, 4:55 pm, m-weber <m-we...@do-not-spam-me.com> wrote:
>> In article <2a47acac-690a-4ecf-b58d-4e31efa5f...
@f41g2000pra.googlegroups
> .com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "...As Krematorium V had to handle all the cremations for a period of
>> > almost two months, its furnace must have suffered accordingly,...
>>
>> That's strange. As even your cohort "zulu" agrees, the Gusen
>> crematorium with its two muffles could burn 122 corpses a day.
>> And in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS installed 46 muffles. Why
>> did some of them break down from overuse?
>
> I don't know what "Zulu" said, but I know that tests have shown that
> it takes a minimum of at least one hour to cremate a human body no
> matter how much energy is applied.
Could you please provide links to these "tests"?
Under everyday circumstances and
> using those crude coke-fired furnaces at Gusen, the most two ovens
> could cremate in a 24 hour day would have been about 24.
NOt according to zulu. Not according to Topf...and they made the ovens.
>
>
>
>>
>> Seems they had to burn a really, really, really huge number
>> of corpses, huh?
>>
>> > The Hungarian Jews who passed through
>> > Auschwitz were not killed there---they just passed through there on
>> > their way to other work camps
>>
>> Whoa, bucko, hold it right there. What camps? Where are the
>> transportation records to these camps?
>
> Show us one---just one---order signed by any official, military or
> civilian, or one---just one---report of gassings at Auschwitz, or any
> other camp for that matter, signed by any person, military or
> civilian, at any time.
Search T-4
a-little-sanity
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Contributed
Summary:
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Cc:
In article <a30601f3-f794-4cf5...@v1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> On Mar 22, 4:37 pm, a-little-sanity, please <ratio...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>> 1) Numerous corpses were burned in the open, in the crematorium yard.
>> this is proved by testimonies, as well as aerial and ground photographs.
> Speaking of lies, the "testimonies" that bodies were burned in deep
> pits in swampy Auschwitz
It's not that "swampy", especially in the summer, plus there were
drainage canals right by the crematoriums, which are still visible
today:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/auschwitz/trip-2000/drainage-krema5-1.jpg
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/auschwitz/trip-2000/drainage-krema5-2.jpg
> were exposed as lies when the engineers from
> Hydrokop bored over 300 holes searching for those burning pits and
> found (wait for it) Nothing!
Actually, they did find human remains there.
"In 1965, Hydrokop, a chemical mining enterprise based in Krakow, was commissioned by the
Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum to carry out geological tests at Birkenau aimed at
determining the locations of incineration pits and pyres. Specialists of Hydrokop bored 303
holes up to 3 m deep. Traces of human ashes, bones, and hair turned up in 42 sites.
Documentation of all the holes and the diagrams of their distribution are preserved in the
Conservation Department of the Museum." (Franciszek Piper, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death
Camp, p. 179n).
>> 2) The 900 workers are listed as stokers. Where they slept is irrelevant;
>> the fact remains that just as the Hungarian Jews began arriving in
>> Auschwitz, the number of stokers leaped from 200 to 900.- Hide
> You forget that the synthetic rubber manufacturing plant at Auschwitz
> used coke fired furnaces in production and every single barrack
> housing inmates contained large coke heaters for the comfort of the
> inmates.
LOL oh LOL! Heaters "for the comfort of the inmates"! And in July-
August! But anyway, the stokers' workplace is listed as the
crematoriums.
a-little-sanity
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> On Mar 22, 4:37 pm, a-little-sanity, please <ratio...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>> 1) Numerous corpses were burned in the open, in the crematorium yard.
>> this is proved by testimonies, as well as aerial and ground photographs.
> Speaking of lies, the "testimonies" that bodies were burned in deep
> pits in swampy Auschwitz
It's not that "swampy", especially in the summer, plus there were
drainage canals right by the crematoriums, which are still visible
today:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/auschwitz/trip-2000/drainage-krema5-1.jpg
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/auschwitz/trip-2000/drainage-krema5-2.jpg
> were exposed as lies when the engineers from
> Hydrokop bored over 300 holes searching for those burning pits and
> found (wait for it) Nothing!
Actually, they did find human remains there.
"In 1965, Hydrokop, a chemical mining enterprise based in Krakow, was commissioned by the
Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum to carry out geological tests at Birkenau aimed at
determining the locations of incineration pits and pyres. Specialists of Hydrokop bored 303
holes up to 3 m deep. Traces of human ashes, bones, and hair turned up in 42 sites.
Documentation of all the holes and the diagrams of their distribution are preserved in the
Conservation Department of the Museum." (Franciszek Piper, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death
Camp, p. 179n).
>> 2) The 900 workers are listed as stokers. Where they slept is irrelevant;
>> the fact remains that just as the Hungarian Jews began arriving in
>> Auschwitz, the number of stokers leaped from 200 to 900.- Hide
> You forget that the synthetic rubber manufacturing plant at Auschwitz
> used coke fired furnaces in production and every single barrack
> housing inmates contained large coke heaters for the comfort of the
> inmates.
LOL oh LOL! Heaters "for the comfort of the inmates"! And in July-
m-weber
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> On Mar 22, 4:55 pm, m-weber <m-we...@do-not-spam-me.com> wrote:
>> That's strange. As even your cohort "zulu" agrees, the Gusen
>> crematorium with its two muffles could burn 122 corpses a day.
>> And in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS installed 46 muffles. Why
>> did some of them break down from overuse?
> I don't know what "Zulu" said, but I know that tests have shown that
> it takes a minimum of at least one hour to cremate a human body no
> matter how much energy is applied.
Bucko, not even your "revisionist" cohorts claim this. Using
simultaneous cremation, much higher rates can be achieved.
>> Whoa, bucko, hold it right there. What camps? Where are the
>> transportation records to these camps?
> Show us one---just one---order signed by any official, military or
> civilian, or one---just one---report of gassings at Auschwitz, or any
> other camp for that matter, signed by any person, military or
> civilian, at any time.
I showed one -- the Franke-Gricksch report. But this is a diversion.
Tell us where these 430,000 Hungarian Jews went to. Documented replies
only, please.
>> Since entire populations
>> were deported, a great many of these 437,000 Hungarian Jews
>> were children and infants. Name the camps from which corresponding
>> numbers of children and infants were released, please, and
>> consider that these 437,000 people were just a fraction of the
>> total number of Jews under Nazi rule.
> And 437,000 is just a fraction of the total number of the millions of
> Jews who showed up after the war to demand reparations. It seems the
> "missing" Jews turned up after all.
It's well know that some people survived the Holocaust, but that's
not the question. The question is where these 430,000 Hungarian
Jews, among them more than 100,000 children and infants, vanished
to. You claim they were "sent to other camps". Good. Name
these camps.
ZuLu
How do you you if those 900 workers weren't employed to repair failures at the Krema
II and III?
I hope Nizkor could be of some help to find :
1- the register of manpower required at Kremas for ALL days during the period of
1943-1944.
2- the dates of pauses for the reparation and re-lining of the ovens.
3- the coke's consumption at Auschwitz since 1943 to end 1944.
With such data I'll be able to go further on details and give you what happened there
with a good level of accuracy.
ZuLu
> In article <9c072555-0caa-4350...@j18g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 22, 4:55 pm, m-weber <m-we...@do-not-spam-me.com> wrote:
>
>>> That's strange. As even your cohort "zulu" agrees, the Gusen
>>> crematorium with its two muffles could burn 122 corpses a day.
>>> And in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS installed 46 muffles. Why
>>> did some of them break down from overuse?
>
>> I don't know what "Zulu" said, but I know that tests have shown that
>> it takes a minimum of at least one hour to cremate a human body no
>> matter how much energy is applied.
>
> Bucko, not even your "revisionist" cohorts claim this. Using
> simultaneous cremation, much higher rates can be achieved.
I deduced from the time sheet of Gusen that, into 1 muffle, an average time of 23 min
per corpse was needed to burn 61 corpses per day in an hypothesis of extrapolated
continuous performance not recommended by the manufacturer.
However, in my opinion, that factor time is not of major relevance to estimate the
actual activity of the ovens. To me, the coke or wood consumption is the most
relevant parameter to obtain how many corpses could have been burned at that camp.
I used the same time sheet of Gusen which gives an average coke's consumption of
28.72 kg per corpse in a hypothetical condition of continuous use.
The ovens installed by Topf at Gusen (2 furnaces x 2 muffles) were theoretically less
demanding in coke than similar models installed at Birkenau (Krema II and III - 2
furnaces x 2 muffles , Krema IV and V - 2 furnace x 4 muffles) as I explained in
previous posts.
Those furnaces were civilian models, nothing specific to criminal purpose.
On the opposite there were not properly model to industrial burning because, as being
civilian, they were tiny muffles planned to burn corpses by unit and to recuperate
ashes for the family into a receptacle placed below.
The allegation that the cremation's performance could have been improved by burning
several cadavers (simultaneous cremation) instead of one in a muffle's cavity
designed to burn one corpse only (civilian model by Topf & Sohne) is a major absurdity.
In fact, by trying to put several corpses in a small cavity, one would only reduce
the hot air circulation around the material to be burned and, as consequence, would
actually reduce the speed of cremation, thus, obviously the productivity of the
operation. Not to mention the risk of damaging the refractory brick lining on such
tentative.
Since the typhus epidemics occurrence after 1942, all corpses might be cremated at
the camps as a part of prophylactic measures.
The same model of furnaces provided by the manufacturer Topf and Shone can be found
at Gusen, Mauthausen, Dachau, Oranienburg, Gusen or Buchenwald which are not labeled
"extermination camps" on the Dogma. Only the combination [number of furnaces x number
of muffles] could have changed while the basic muffle's design remained the same.
To plan the cremation installation at all main camp, SS have used a standard ratio of
1 muffle installed per 4,500-5,000 inmates hosted. We can observe the ratio of 4,500
at Oranienburg and 5,000 at Birkenau to an expected population of 230,000 which never
was reached.
A blueprint of the standard model of Topf's oven was presented at Nuremberg trial as
an "evidence" of a criminal action. That cannot be sustained anymore.
"Historically, it is no longer possible to present this Nuremberg drawing [drawing of
a furnace] as being “criminal”. Produced entirely without any supporting documentary
context, as were many German documents at that time, this drawing was supposed to
prove “ipso facto” the criminality of KL Buchenwald, whereas in fact it was only a
pictorial representation of a perfectly ordinary piece of “public health” equipment.
Whether used as incriminating evidence or not, the fact that this drawing was
retained, certainly with a covering letter whose content is not known, shows the
stupid way in which the documents of the defeated were “evaluated” by a tribunal of
the victors. It is just as ridiculous as if in the Landru trial the prosecution had
presented a catalogue of harmless kitchen ranges and declared that this brochure was
obvious proof of the crimes of the accused, and had omitted to mention the purchase
of the railway tickets: one return [for Landru] and one single [for his lady victim]. "
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0106.htm
>>> Whoa, bucko, hold it right there. What camps? Where are the
>>> transportation records to these camps?
>
>> Show us one---just one---order signed by any official, military or
>> civilian, or one---just one---report of gassings at Auschwitz, or any
>> other camp for that matter, signed by any person, military or
>> civilian, at any time.
>
> I showed one -- the Franke-Gricksch report. But this is a diversion.
> Tell us where these 430,000 Hungarian Jews went to. Documented replies
> only, please.
Franke-Gricksch report has been yet addressed.
For myself, I am sure of 1 thing:
they WERE NOT GASSED AT BIRKENAU.
Now, if someone could show the following documents:
1- the register of manpower required for ALL days during the period of 1943-1944.
2- the dates of pauses for the reparation and re-lining of the ovens.
3- the coke's consumption at Auschwitz since 1943 to end 1944.
With such data I'll be able to go further on details and give you what happened at
Birkenau with a good level of accuracy.
>>> Since entire populations
>>> were deported, a great many of these 437,000 Hungarian Jews
>>> were children and infants. Name the camps from which corresponding
>>> numbers of children and infants were released, please, and
>>> consider that these 437,000 people were just a fraction of the
>>> total number of Jews under Nazi rule.
>
>> And 437,000 is just a fraction of the total number of the millions of
>> Jews who showed up after the war to demand reparations. It seems the
>> "missing" Jews turned up after all.
>
> It's well know that some people survived the Holocaust, but that's
> not the question. The question is where these 430,000 Hungarian
> Jews, among them more than 100,000 children and infants, vanished
> to. You claim they were "sent to other camps". Good. Name
> these camps.
Have you all the corresponding names?
Did you try to find their tracks at Bad Arolsen first?
Have Bad Arolsen archives showed that all those people left ANY TRACE?
rogercar...@yahoo.com
37 fake names and some of them in this thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.history/msg/24158ea65bea6455?hl=en
Why?
On Mar 23, 5:13 pm, ZuLu <z...@skeptikal.com> wrote:
> a-little-sanity escribió:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <2a47acac-690a-4ecf-b58d-4e31efa5f...@f41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> > Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Mar 22, 2:35 am, a-little-sanity, please <ratio...@nospam.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> During the summer of 1944, 437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported
> >>> to Auschwitz, as proved e.g. by Veesenmayer's report
> >>> ( seehttp://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i...,
> with a good level of accuracy.-
ZuLu
For myself, I am sure of 1 thing:
NOBODY WAS GASSED AT BIRKENAU.
Now, if someone could show the following documents:
1- the register of manpower required for ALL days during the period of 1943-1944.
2- the dates of pauses for the reparation and re-lining of the ovens.
3- the coke's consumption at Auschwitz since 1943 to end 1944.
With such data I'll be able to go further on details and give you what happened at
Birkenau with a good level of accuracy.
ZuLu
> In article <2a47acac-690a-4ecf...@f41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
>> "...As Krematorium V had to handle all the cremations for a period of
>> almost two months, its furnace must have suffered accordingly,...
>
> That's strange. As even your cohort "zulu" agrees, the Gusen
> crematorium with its two muffles could burn 122 corpses a day.
> And in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS installed 46 muffles. Why
> did some of them break down from overuse?
>
> Seems they had to burn a really, really, really huge number
> of corpses, huh?
It is known that the refractory material used at Krema IV and V was not of sufficient
quality but in ware's time you get what you have. Krema I and II had also some
problems like the necessary complete reconstruction of the KI chimney.
It would be interesting to have all the follow-up of the ovens' maintenance and
repairs at Birkenau in order to state their actual activity. Pressac gave some
indications on it but he his nor exhaustive on that topic.
Moreover, to establish the actual cremation activity of the ovens with a good level
of accuracy, I would rely only on coke's consumption and not in vague speculations
about maximum capacity or whatever. Without fuel, any corpse burns so, with the
quantity of fuel burned you get the number of corpses burned.
RJ11
(snip)
A document which mentions a 'gassing cellar' in an Auschwitz-Birkenau
crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Vergasungkeller.shtml
A document requesting cyanide gas detectors for an Auschwitz-Birkenau crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Gas-Detector.shtml
A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas chambers:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
RJ.
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
>> It's well know that some people survived the Holocaust, but that's
>> not the question. The question is where these 430,000 Hungarian
>> Jews, among them more than 100,000 children and infants, vanished
>> to. You claim they were "sent to other camps". Good. Name
>> these camps.
> Have you all the corresponding names?
But this is just a lame, silly evasion, child.
437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to Auschwitz in the summer
of 1944. In January 1945, there were 67,000 inmates in
Auschwitz. All the existing evidence proves that the large
majority of these Hungarian deportees were murdered in Auschwitz.
If you deny that, please tell us where they went? Please tell
us what happened to more than 100,000 of the children and
infants among them? There are no records and no testimonies
of them being transported anywhere. They were not released from
any camp. Where did they go to? That's a simple enough question;
can you answer it? YES or NO?...
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
>> That's strange. As even your cohort "zulu" agrees, the Gusen
>> crematorium with its two muffles could burn 122 corpses a day.
>> And in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS installed 46 muffles. Why
>> did some of them break down from overuse?
>>
>> Seems they had to burn a really, really, really huge number
>> of corpses, huh?
> It is known that the refractory material used at Krema IV and V was
> not of sufficient quality but in ware's time you get what you have.
It is known to who?
> Krema I and II had also some
> problems like the necessary complete reconstruction of the KI chimney.
Why did some of the furnaces break down? From overuse, yes?
> For myself, I am sure of 1 thing:
>
> NOBODY WAS GASSED AT BIRKENAU.
That's a postulate which for some reason -- in all probability
mental illness -- you have decided to adopt.
But then, you also deny the Nazi extermination policy, although
it was proved to you -- time and time again -- that all the
leaders of Nazi Germany, and even the judicial system, were
perfectly aware that such a plan existed. Like all cultist
fanatics, you are not willing to accept reality. That's all;
a certain percentage of the people on this planet are crazy
as bedbugs, and you happen to be one of them. And if I know
anything about human nature, you'll be crazy as a bedbug
for as long as you live. Pray for a miracle, poor child.
Morbid Fungus
The answer is YES, I can answer it. But before we plunge into the
problem of trying to determine what happened to any number of Jews, we
should first ask just how many Jews are we talking about. You start
the debate with a completely unsupported announcement that almost half-
a-million Hungarian Jews were sent to Auschwitz. Where does that
absurd number come from? You certainly have no records of the number
of Jews traveling from Hungary to Auschwitz.
It's a typical trick of the Holocaust hucksters to just throw out a
number and demand to know what happened to them. The number now
settled upon is 437,000. But Raul Hilberg, another Holocaust
promoter, put the number at 180,000. Less than half of the most
popular estimate. And Hilberg can't even substantiate that number
with any concrete or credible evidence. No Holocaust huckster offers
any evidence to support their "estimate."
So let's check with actual records---the German records. Everyone
concedes the Germans were meticulous record keepers. And we find the
old German records records of Auschwitz camp from May, 1940 through
December 1944, now available on microfilm in the Glücks complete
Concentration Camp microfilm records located in the Russian Central
Archives.
If we look at the records of the Germans themselves, the
contemporaneous records kept by the camp administrators at Auschwitz
as the Jews came in, we find that the total number of Jews from
Hungary who arrived at Auschwitz from May through October of 1944
totaled 23,117. Did you get that? Not 437,000 but 23,117. That's
what the records show.
For the same period,May-October, 1944,the Germans recorded that the
total number of Hungarian Jews transferred away from Auschwitz was
21,527. That leaves 1,590 Hungarian Jews unaccounted for. But since
there were 11,839 Jews still at Auschwitz when the Russians took over
the camp, we can safely assume that the Hungarian Jews were among the
remainder.
Without doubt, the Holohuggers will demand to know just where all
those Hungarian Jews were sent when they left Auschwitz. So let's
consider some other information about what happened to the Hungarian
Jews. According to Wallstein, in "Buchenwald Concentration Camp
1937-1945," at p. 165, beginning in May 1944, tens of thousands of
Hungarian Jews in Auschwitz-Birkenau were sent to concentration camps
in the Old Reich as laborers. Everyone agrees that there were no gas
chambers in the Old Reich and none of the camps located there were
"death camps."
In addition, according to Eberhard Kolb, a special section was set up
for the Hungarian Jews at Bergen-Belsen. On July 8, 1944, 1,683
Hungarian Jews arrived at Bergen-Belsen where they were processed and
finally sent to Switzerland. On August 20th, the trainload of
Hungarian Jews arrived in Bregenz and then went on to St. Gallen the
next day. A second group of 1,368 Hungarian Jews left the Bergen-
Belsen detention camp on December 4, 1944 and entered Switzerland just
after midnight on December 7th, according to Yehuda Bauer.
In 1945, between April 6 and April 11, the Hungarian Jews were
evacuated from Bergen-Belsen along with other Jews in three trains
carrying about 7,000 Jews. One of these trains arrived with 1,712 Jews
on April 21, 1945 in the Theresienstadt ghetto in Czechoslovakia. Two
weeks later the Theresienstadt Ghetto was turned over to the Red
Cross, just before Russian troops arrived.
The other two trains never made it to Theresienstadt because they had
to keep making detours due to frequent Allied air attacks. One of the
trains finally stopped on April 14 near Magdeburg in northern Germany;
the guards ran away and the Jews on the train were liberated by the
American troops. The third train halted on April 23, 1945 near the
village of Tröbitz in the Niederlausitz region; they were liberated by
Russian troops after the guards escaped.
So there you have "what happened to all those Hungarian Jews." They
were not gassed, shot, dismembered, cremated, electrocuted, or fed to
mad dogs. The Hungarian Jews were shipped out of Auschwitz to work
camps in the Old Reich and many were shipped to Switzerland and
released.
Happy now?
m-weber
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> The answer is YES, I can answer it. But before we plunge into the
> problem of trying to determine what happened to any number of Jews, we
> should first ask just how many Jews are we talking about. You start
> the debate with a completely unsupported announcement that almost half-
> a-million Hungarian Jews were sent to Auschwitz. Where does that
> absurd number come from?
The reports from Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer. Look him up in Google. Better
yet, type "Edmund Veesenmayer" and "437402" into Google.
You have a lot of catching up to do, child.
snakehawk
> In article <2f000087-581e-4c5c-a97b-516f5f27b...@y34g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> > The answer is YES, I can answer it. But before we plunge into the
> > problem of trying to determine what happened to any number of Jews, we
> > should first ask just how many Jews are we talking about. You start
> > the debate with a completely unsupported announcement that almost half-
> > a-million Hungarian Jews were sent to Auschwitz. Where does that
> > absurd number come from?
>
> The reports from Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer. Look him up in Google. Better
> yet, type "Edmund Veesenmayer" and "437402" into Google.
>
> You have a lot of catching up to do, child.
You mean the Edmund Veesenmayer, the high German official who never
heard of "death camps," or "gas chambers," or mass killings until the
Allies made the claims at Nuremberg? That Edmund Veesenmayer?
Is that the same Veesenmayer who testified about a great demand for
Hungarian laborers badly needed in Germany? That one? The one who
testified he had no idea of how many people were sent from Hungary
into Germany? It seems the first we hear of a Veesenmayer "report" is
from Hilberg. All the quotes thereafter come from Hilberg, not
Veesenmayer.
But whatever, the only records we have---the only real evidence we
have---is that a little over 21,000 Hungarians, including their
children, were sent to Germany to work in German munitions plants.
And they all survived.
Morbid Fungus
> In article <2f000087-581e-4c5c-a97b-516f5f27b...@y34g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> > The answer is YES, I can answer it. But before we plunge into the
> > problem of trying to determine what happened to any number of Jews, we
> > should first ask just how many Jews are we talking about. You start
> > the debate with a completely unsupported announcement that almost half-
> > a-million Hungarian Jews were sent to Auschwitz. Where does that
> > absurd number come from?
>
> The reports from Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer. Look him up in Google. Better
> yet, type "Edmund Veesenmayer" and "437402" into Google.
>
> You have a lot of catching up to do, child.
OK, I looked. I got 437,402 hits of unabashed Holocaust hokum. No
documentary proof, no credible sources, no sensible arguments---just
more Holocaust propaganda. I got to read Hilberg and Danuta Czech, a
host of other holocaust promoters, and a few revisionists. But
nothing but "estimates," and suppositions, and just plain lies. So
what does any of that prove?
george
> OK, I looked. I got 437,402 hits of unabashed Holocaust hokum. No
> documentary proof, no credible sources, no sensible arguments---just
> more Holocaust propaganda. I got to read Hilberg and Danuta Czech, a
> host of other holocaust promoters, and a few revisionists. But
> nothing but "estimates," and suppositions, and just plain lies. So
> what does any of that prove?
Bad Arolsen is where you want to go and read the archived material
there.
Of course you'll have to be able to read and understand the German
language
B.H. Cramer
"george" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message
news:ca7b68de-9744-4dad...@p6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 25, 7:30 am, Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> OK, I looked. I got 437,402 hits of unabashed Holocaust hokum. No
> documentary proof, no credible sources, no sensible arguments---just
> more Holocaust propaganda. I got to read Hilberg and Danuta Czech, a
> host of other holocaust promoters, and a few revisionists. But
> nothing but "estimates," and suppositions, and just plain lies. So
> what does any of that prove?
>Bad Arolsen is where you want to go and read the archived material
>there.
Can't be done, black cunt. The yids control who accesses the archives.
>Of course you'll have to be able to read and understand the German
>language
No you won't. There are services available to assist in this regard.
m-weber
snakehawk <snak...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> On Mar 24, 12:01 pm, m-weber <m-we...@do-not-spam-me.com> wrote:
>> The reports from Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer. Look him up in Google. Better
>> yet, type "Edmund Veesenmayer" and "437402" into Google.
>>
>> You have a lot of catching up to do, child.
> You mean the Edmund Veesenmayer, the high German official who never
> heard of "death camps," or "gas chambers," or mass killings until the
> Allies made the claims at Nuremberg?
Yeh, yeh.
> That Edmund Veesenmayer?
I mean Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer, whose detailed reports prove that
437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to Auschwitz in the summer
of 1944. See for example
http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=334,
Braham, op. cit., p. 443. A facsimile of the document can also be found in
Piper, Die Zahl der Opfer, p. 123.
m-weber
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>> The reports from Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer. Look him up in Google. Better
>> yet, type "Edmund Veesenmayer" and "437402" into Google.
>>
>> You have a lot of catching up to do, child.
> OK, I looked. I got 437,402 hits of unabashed Holocaust hokum. No
> documentary proof,
But the documentary proof does exist. Why are you lying? See
ZuLu
Well, to burn those 437,000 Hungarians at Auschwitz, SS would have needed
at least 12,236 tons of coke.
Show me the piles such quantity on aerial photos.
Show me the BOL for transportation of such quantity, show me the internal papers ,
orders, invoices, etc to manage such quantity.
See how appears piles to a consumption of 50 tons per day of coke on aerial photos
http://www.air-photo.com/english/coalcomp.html
Let see which were the real numbers about coke's consumption at Auschwitz
Some interesting data of coke's consumption at Auschwitz
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0224.htm
PMO microfilm 12,012 contains the coke delivery notes for the Krematorien
(without distinguishing between them) from 16th February 1942 to 25th October 1943, a
period in which Krematorium I was the only one in operation for the first thirteen
months, followed by the completion and bringing into service (between 22nd March and
25th June 1943) of the four Birkenau Krematorien and the abandonment of the cold “old
Krematorium” at the Stammlager. The some two hundred and forty delivery notes
preserved make it possible to determine coke requirements month by month:
1942................. 1943
Feb...22 tons .... Jan...23 tons
(from 16th only)...Feb...40
Mar...39...........Mar..144.5
Apr...39...........Apr...60
May...32...........May...95
Jun...29.5.........Jun...61
Jul...16.5.........Jul...67
Aug...31.5.........Aug...71
Sep...52...........Sep...61
Oct...15...........Oct...82
Nov...17
Dec ..39
----------------------------
Total 332.5 tons........704.5 tons
That gives an estimated consumption of 802 tons in 1943 which correspond to a maximum
of 28,700 copses burned.
Don't you think that a jump in consumption up to 12,000 tons in 3 months wouldn't
have appeared on the papers and on aerial photos?
WE have aerial photos of May, June, August and Sept 1944 and NOTHING APPEARS which
could be piles of such quantity of coke.
So, give me the coke's consumption in 1944 (that must be in Russian archives) and
I'll give you how many people died at Auschwitz.
<zulu>
http://www.holocaust-history.org/gusen-cremation-timesheet/index.shtml
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0106.htm
</zulu>
ZuLu
Where were the 12,000 tons of coke to burn all that people, Wiby?
Show me the trains, the papers, the photos....
WE are talking about a total consumption of 802 tons in 1943 at the Kremas of
Auschwitz, Wiby, so how such jump in consumption couldn't have left ANY TRACES?
Can you realize that?
Don't you think that to pass from an average consumption of 67 tons per month to
3,000 tons per month, if we suppose the cremation of 437,000 people in 4 months, is a
kind of revolution into ALL the organization at that camp?
How couldn't such ORGANIZATIONAL REVOLUTION have left ANY TRACE?
ZuLu
> On Mar 24, 12:01 pm, m-weber <m-we...@do-not-spam-me.com> wrote:
>> In article <2f000087-581e-4c5c-a97b-516f5f27b...@y34g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The answer is YES, I can answer it. But before we plunge into the
>>> problem of trying to determine what happened to any number of Jews, we
>>> should first ask just how many Jews are we talking about. You start
>>> the debate with a completely unsupported announcement that almost half-
>>> a-million Hungarian Jews were sent to Auschwitz. Where does that
>>> absurd number come from?
>> The reports from Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer. Look him up in Google. Better
>> yet, type "Edmund Veesenmayer" and "437402" into Google.
>>
>> You have a lot of catching up to do, child.
>
> You mean the Edmund Veesenmayer, the high German official who never
> heard of "death camps," or "gas chambers," or mass killings until the
> Allies made the claims at Nuremberg? That Edmund Veesenmayer?
How could he have recognized such bunch of idiotic claims about ludicrous "gas chambers"?
He was like more than 300,000 Germans who said the same at Nuremberg: any
extermination plan, any gas chambers or steam chambers or electrical chambers or
whatever so called "industrial way to kill"...
Even an engineer of Huta, the firm which built the Kremas, said that there were any
"gas chambers" because they constructed morgues and it was impossible to hide from
them any strange transformation at those places.
And HUTA delivered the final package of Krema's plans in September 1943, that is SIX
MONTHS AFTER THE BEGINNING OF "GASSINGS OPERATIONS".
But, of course, it is far more convenient to believe in Hoess or some more
unfortunate people who passed through British or Russian hands before a "confession".
The German soldier Arno Diere confessed yo have participated in the Katyn's massacre
with his army. That gives the level of credibility of "confessions" at that time..
> Is that the same Veesenmayer who testified about a great demand for
> Hungarian laborers badly needed in Germany? That one? The one who
> testified he had no idea of how many people were sent from Hungary
> into Germany? It seems the first we hear of a Veesenmayer "report" is
> from Hilberg. All the quotes thereafter come from Hilberg, not
> Veesenmayer.
>
> But whatever, the only records we have---the only real evidence we
> have---is that a little over 21,000 Hungarians, including their
> children, were sent to Germany to work in German munitions plants.
> And they all survived.
<zulu>
Engineer’s Deathbed Confession: We Built Morgues, not Gas Chambers
http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/3/Rademacher296-297.html
1972: A Somewhat Different Auschwitz Trial
Contractors of Auschwitz Tried in Vienna
By Dipl.-Ing. Walter Lüftl
During the years 1964/65, a giant Auschwitz trial took place in Frankfurt, Germany.
Almost all defendants accused of having participated in the crimes claimed to have
been committed in this camp were eventually sentenced.[1] Even though the Frankfurt
court dealt with one of the largest mass murders ever committed in mankind history -
if one believes the charges - the judges of this trial did nothing to find out if the
claims made by witnesses were based on facts; the court did not investigate the
alleged murder weapons, did not try to find any trace of the dead or of its victims,
and did not hear experts to critically assess the witnesses' claims. Not a single
forensic expert report was asked for or provided.
The trial against Walter Dejaco and Fritz Ertl was a little different. It took place
before the Superior Criminal Court in Vienna between January 1 and March 10, 1972,
under the presiding judge Dr. Reisenleitner.[2] Both defendants were officers of the
Waffen-SS during the war and as such were at times involved in the design,
construction, and maintenance of the crematoria of the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp.
Because according to today's official historiography these buildings served for the
mass murder of European Jews, both were accused by the Austrian public prosecutor of
having at least indirectly participated in the planning and execution of this crime.
The trial files are allegedly no longer accessible in the Vienna courthouse. However,
a short review of this trial will be attempted, based on newspaper articles. Judging
by these reports, this trial was in line with the other trials about actual or
alleged violent NS-crimes regarding external circumstances as described by Köhler:[3]
* The accused were prejudged as "contractors of the mass murder,"[4] and the
trial against them was called a "a monster trial."
* The press reported untruthfully:[5]
"A construction drawing by Dejaco of both large gas chambers with his signature
exists."
Plans of the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp were displayed in the courtroom, in which
"clearly the crematoria, the gas chambers, the barracks and the infamous ramp
[...]"[5]
were allegedly drawn, although no plan has yet been found, on which the words "human
gas chamber" are written or from which use as gas chambers could be indirectly construed.
* Several witnesses appeared during the trial to report actual or alleged
horrible conditions in the camp. Thus, they spread an atmosphere of horror and
prejudice against the accused, but they did not contribute to the clarification of
the actual accusations.[6]
* The witness Hermann Langbein, chairman of the International
Auschwitz-Committee and plaintiff against the accused, can be shown to have attempted
to influence witnesses, based on a letter which he sent to potential witnesses:[7]
"Dr. Obenaus, the defense lawyer for Dejaco, submitted part of a letter,
which Langbein allegedly wrote to former inmates of Auschwitz. It says: 'It is in my
opinion unimportant whether an inmate can say anything positive about Dejaco. But
when he can say that he participated in the building of the crematorium, this can be
perceived as participation in the murder, and his punishment can be achieved.' The
attorney explains that several former inmates were upset since they could only say
good things about Dejaco, and several engaged in correspondence with him through
letters."
* The historical expert Dr. Hans Buchheim, who was called by the court, reported
about the organization of the SS and about a possible necessity to obey orders by the
accused; however, the expert was evidently not asked how the allegations of witnesses
about the alleged crimes committed with the claimed murder weapon purportedly built
by the defendants could be in agreement with other types of evidence (documents,
physical evidence).[8]
* In his plea the state's attorney made long statements, apropos of nothing,
about his view of history and the alleged or actual horror of the NS Jewish
persecution in general.[9]
* The accused did not contradict the orthodox historiography about the camp
Auschwitz, which should not be surprising in light of the fact that any attempt to do
so would have been utterly hopeless and would have led to intensified punishment.
However, Walter Dejaco claimed that during the planning and construction of the
crematoria[10], he did not know anything of their alleged future utilization as tools
of mass murder, while Fritz Ertl stated that he attempted to delay the completion of
the crematoria through inner resistance.[11]
Contrary to many other trials against so-called National Socialist violent crimes,
the media's interest in these trials was relatively minor. Thus, the Vienna newspaper
Die Presse evidently did not report about it, and the trial itself took place before
a mostly empty court room.[12]
Several interesting statements by the press, the accused, the witnesses, and the
court should be mentioned in addition:
* The number of murder victims of Auschwitz was stated by the press at the time
to be 3 million,[13] contrary to the fact that the historiography at that time
accepted a total number of about 1 million.
* According to the indictment:[14]
"The gassing of the victims [...] were especially cruel. The killing
procedure in the gas chambers lasted 10 minutes. During this time the victims had to
suffer unspeakable agonies."
"After the gassing, the victims' gold teeth were pulled and their hair cut
in 'Kanada' [correct: in the storage of effects...]."[5]
However, the witnesses mostly agreed in reporting that this was allegedly done
directly inside the crematoria, otherwise the murdered would have to be transported
to the storage part of the camp from the crematoria, and then afterwards returned to
the crematoria to be burned.
* To the notion that four crematoria for 150,000 people in the camp should have
caused suspicion, Dejaco answered that at that time there were typhus epidemics. This
fact sufficiently explains the capacity of the Birkenau crematoria, but is today
mostly neglected.[15]
* The witness Langbein had to register 300 deaths every day in day and night
shifts. This number agrees with the horrendous documented death rate due to the
typhus epidemic in the camp in the summer of 1942.[16]
* The accused Fritz Ertl reported that he was among others working on a plan of
the "garden layout." This highlights the fact that the alleged "extermination camp"
Auschwitz had areas for the recreation of the inmates.
* The "key witness" Kaplonek could not identify Dejaco and admitted to knowing
of him only through hearsay.[17]
* Although several witnesses accuse Dejaco of murder and mistreatment of
inmates,[12] he was acquitted of these accusations based on exonerating testimonies.[18]
* A construction expert testified before the court that the plans submitted
during the indictment are identical to the original construction plans of the
crematoria in Auschwitz from Poland, as submitted to the court.[19]
This last piece of information is quite interesting, since it indicates that the
revisionist allegation that criminal courts never use material evidence is false. At
least in this trial a construction specialist was requested for his expertise. This
construction expert who testified during that trial got in touch with the author of
this article and informed him that he had explained more than just the identity of
the original plans with the copies, which were in the public prosecutor's hands. He
had to answer basically two questions put to him by the court:
1. Do the plans indicate that these were gas chambers? His answer was: No.
2. Could the accused infer from the plans that they could be transformed later
into gas chambers? Here also was the answer: No.
Walter Dejaco and Fritz Ertl were thus acquitted. The public prosecution did announce
an appeal,[20] but did not follow through with it. Despite protests no further
measures against the two acquitted architects were taken. In the Vienna Auschwitz
trial a well known construction specialist prepared an expert opinion. The material
evidence did not indicate mass killings with poison gas.
Question: Is this the reason why the files of the trial described here cannot be found?
Ref. Notes to be found at
http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/3/Lueftl294f.html
4.4.1.3. The 1972 Vienna Auschwitz Trial
Between January 18 and March 10, 1972, two architects responsible for the design and
construction of the crematoria in Auschwitz-Birkenau, Walter Dejaco and Fritz Ertl,
were put on trial in Vienna, Austria.[84] During the trial, an expert report on the
possible interpretation of the blueprints of the alleged gas chambers of the
Auschwitz and Birkenau crematoria was presented to the court. The report concluded
that the rooms in question could not have been gas chambers, nor could they have been
converted into gas chambers.[85] Thanks to this first methodologically sound expert
report on Auschwitz, the defendants were acquitted.
[85] Personal communication from the expert, who must, for the time being, remain
anonymous for fear of persecution and prosecution. See Michael Gärtner, "Vor 25
Jahren: Ein anderer Auschwitzprozess," VffG, 1(1) (1997), pp. 24f. (online:
www.vho.org/VffG/1997/1/Gaertner1.html)
http://www.germarrudolf.com/work/trr/4.html#4.4.1.3.
/<zulu>
ZuLu
Pity he hadn't reported about the corresponding coke delivery of 12,000 tons.
Something far more complicate to cheat about.
ZuLu
> In article <49c7c4bd$1...@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu <zu...@skeptikal.com> wrote:
>
>> m-weber escribi:
>
>>> That's strange. As even your cohort "zulu" agrees, the Gusen
>>> crematorium with its two muffles could burn 122 corpses a day.
>>> And in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS installed 46 muffles. Why
>>> did some of them break down from overuse?
>>>
>>> Seems they had to burn a really, really, really huge number
>>> of corpses, huh?
>
>> It is known that the refractory material used at Krema IV and V was
>> not of sufficient quality but in ware's time you get what you have.
>
> It is known to who?
>
>> Krema I and II had also some
>> problems like the necessary complete reconstruction of the KI chimney.
>
> Why did some of the furnaces break down? From overuse, yes?
Not exactly, mainly construction defects according with Pressac.
However with the consumption of 802 tons of coke for all 1943, that doesn't represent
too much concerning the actual activity of the ovens. I would say a very low activity
in regard of the total capacity installed.
That could be expected because that installation was planed for 230,000 inmates and
the population was about 67,000 in average.
>> For myself, I am sure of 1 thing:
>>
>> NOBODY WAS GASSED AT BIRKENAU.
>
> That's a postulate which for some reason -- in all probability
> mental illness -- you have decided to adopt.
>
> But then, you also deny the Nazi extermination policy, although
> it was proved to you -- time and time again -- that all the
> leaders of Nazi Germany, and even the judicial system, were
> perfectly aware that such a plan existed. Like all cultist
> fanatics, you are not willing to accept reality. That's all;
> a certain percentage of the people on this planet are crazy
> as bedbugs, and you happen to be one of them. And if I know
> anything about human nature, you'll be crazy as a bedbug
> for as long as you live. Pray for a miracle, poor child.
The issue is that nothing was proved. That explains why we have debate between
functionalist and intentionalist historians .
All we have are speculations about some few documents while a lot of documents are
evidences that the Kremas were not "death factories" and weren't even located to
function secretly.
If all was "proved", as you say, such debate shouldn't even take place between
scholars nowadays.
So, if you have some hidden "irrefutable proof" of what you assume, send it to some
scholar intentionalist who will be very pleased in taking it.
<>
Functionalism (or structuralism) versus intentionalism is a historiographical debate
about the origins of the Holocaust as well as most aspects of the Third Reich, such
as foreign policy. The debate on the origins of the Holocaust centers on essentially
two questions:
* Was there a master plan on the part of Adolf Hitler to launch the Holocaust?
Intentionalists argue that there was such a plan, while functionalists argue there
was not.
* Did the initiative for the Holocaust come from above with orders from Adolf
Hitler or from below within the ranks of the German bureaucracy? Intentionalists
argue that the initiative came from above, while functionalists contend it came from
lower ranks within the bureaucracy.
<>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functionalism_versus_intentionalism
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
>> I mean Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer, whose detailed reports prove that
>> 437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to Auschwitz in the summer
>> of 1944. See for example
>> http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=334,
>> Braham, op. cit., p. 443. A facsimile of the document can also be found in
>> Piper, Die Zahl der Opfer, p. 123.
> Pity he hadn't reported about the corresponding coke delivery of 12,000 tons.
Why would Dr. Veesenmayer report about coke delivery?
> Something far more complicate to cheat about.
Any proof that he "cheated"? Why would he? You're not making any
sense, child.
RJ11
> How could he have recognized such bunch of idiotic claims about
> ludicrous "gas chambers"?
A document which mentions a 'gassing cellar' in an Auschwitz-Birkenau
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
>> The reports from Dr. Edmund Veesenmayer. Look him up in Google. Better
>> yet, type "Edmund Veesenmayer" and "437402" into Google.
> Where were the 12,000 tons of coke to burn all that people, Wiby?
The coke (and wood) were in the crematoriums, child.
Now, do try to concentrate, and tell us what happened to 437,000 Hungarian
Jews deported to Auschwitz in the summer of 1944, as proved e.g. by
Veesenmayer's reports.
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
>> But this is just a lame, silly evasion, child.
>>
>> 437,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to Auschwitz in the summer
>> of 1944. In January 1945, there were 67,000 inmates in
>> Auschwitz. All the existing evidence proves that the large
>> majority of these Hungarian deportees were murdered in Auschwitz.
>> If you deny that, please tell us where they went? Please tell
>> us what happened to more than 100,000 of the children and
>> infants among them? There are no records and no testimonies
>> of them being transported anywhere. They were not released from
>> any camp. Where did they go to? That's a simple enough question;
>> can you answer it? YES or NO?...
> Well, to burn those 437,000 Hungarians at Auschwitz, SS would have
> needed at least 12,236 tons of coke.
So you say, so you say. I'll be happy to discuss this, but first
answer my question and tell us where these 437,000 Hungarian Jews,
among them about 100,000 children and infants, vanished to.
Especially, the release of such a large number of children and infants
would be very noticeable. If you claim they were transported out
of Auschwitz, please submit documents proving this, and name
the camps they were released from.
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
>> Why did some of the furnaces break down? From overuse, yes?
> Not exactly, mainly construction defects according with Pressac.
So they could not manufacture good ovens, with all the
experience they had?
> However with the consumption of 802 tons of coke for all 1943,
> that doesn't represent too much concerning the actual activity
> of the ovens. I would say a very low activity in regard of the
> total capacity installed.
But again, child, you're not making any sense. You have
admitted yourself that all crematoriums were operational. If
there was "very low activity", why operate all of them? And
you claim you're an engineer? Pfft.
>> That's a postulate which for some reason -- in all probability
>> mental illness -- you have decided to adopt.
>>
>> But then, you also deny the Nazi extermination policy, although
>> it was proved to you -- time and time again -- that all the
>> leaders of Nazi Germany, and even the judicial system, were
>> perfectly aware that such a plan existed. Like all cultist
>> fanatics, you are not willing to accept reality. That's all;
>> a certain percentage of the people on this planet are crazy
>> as bedbugs, and you happen to be one of them. And if I know
>> anything about human nature, you'll be crazy as a bedbug
>> for as long as you live. Pray for a miracle, poor child.
> The issue is that nothing was proved.
The intent to exterminate was proved, the extermination itself was
proved, the physical and documentary evidence was provided.
Hell, child -- look at this Taubner verdict that is often posted
here. The Supreme SS and Police Court, no less, stated in a
matter-of-factly fashion "The Jews have to be exterminated" and
added "the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos
were set up especially for this purpose".
As someone wrote, there is no evidence you'll accept; that is
the trademark of cultist fanatics.
ZuLu
If you claim that 437,000 Hungarians were gassed and burned, then provide the
corresponding consume of coke or wood.
I don't believe in that 437,000 number neither does Raul Hilberg, he speak about 180,000.
Whatever that number is, show me the corresponding combustible used to burn them.
3.46 miles of trains of coke shouldn't have easily vanished, I suppose.
m-weber
ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
> m-weber escribió:
>> So you say, so you say. I'll be happy to discuss this, but first
>> answer my question and tell us where these 437,000 Hungarian Jews,
>> among them about 100,000 children and infants, vanished to.
>>
>> Especially, the release of such a large number of children and infants
>> would be very noticeable. If you claim they were transported out
>> of Auschwitz, please submit documents proving this, and name
>> the camps they were released from.
> If you claim that 437,000 Hungarians were gassed and burned, then provide
> the corresponding consume of coke or wood.
This has been answered by RJ. Basically, your estimate of the
amount of the required coke/wood is far too high, and moreover,
wood and coal were pretty easy to obtain (there were actually
coal mines in two Auschwitz sub-camps).
> I don't believe in that 437,000 number neither does Raul Hilberg, he
> speak about 180,000.
Are you sure? Did you check this in his book? As I recall, the
discrepancy follows from the fact that some areas, such as
Transylvania, are sometimes considered to be in Romania, and
sometimes in Hungary.
> Whatever that number is, show me the corresponding combustible used to burn
> them. 3.46 miles of trains of coke shouldn't have easily vanished, I suppose.
It does not help to keep repeating these absurd estimates.
Now, please answer my question and tell us where these 437,000 Hungarian
Jews, among them about 100,000 children and infants, vanished to.
Especially, the release of such a large number of children and infants
would be very noticeable. If you claim they were transported out
of Auschwitz, please submit documents proving this, and name
the camps they were released from.
Your inability to answer this does not go unnoticed.
Anonymous
with reparations to worthless kikes.
The second biggest victim is the idea of historical truth and academic
integrity.
Kenneth McVay OBC
Anonymous <nob...@remailer.paranoici.org> wrote:
>The biggest victims of the 'holocaust' are the German people, saddled
>with reparations to worthless kikes.
Ah! Another Noble Aryan Hero bravely vomits from the gutter.
>The second biggest victim is the idea of historical truth and academic
>integrity.
What would you know about integrity, Bubba?
--
"I am not stressed out since I can analyze
your holohoax in my urine." (Kurt Knoll,
Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Scholar)
The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/
Truthseeker
"Kenneth McVay OBC" <kmc...@shell.vex.net> wrote in message
news:vqWdndL4DOAsN0vU...@vex.net...
> In article <f3603577864f4dd0...@remailer.paranoici.org>,
> Anonymous <nob...@remailer.paranoici.org> wrote:
>>The biggest victims of the 'holocaust' are the German people, saddled
>>with reparations to worthless kikes.
>
> Ah! Another Noble Aryan Hero bravely vomits from the gutter.
>
>>The second biggest victim is the idea of historical truth and academic
>>integrity.
And as a holocaust promoter Kenneth you are a profiteer collecting extortion
money.
Kurt Knoll.
Kenneth McVay OBC
Truthavoider <kur...@citywest.ca> wrote:
>"Kenneth McVay OBC" <kmc...@shell.vex.net> wrote in message
>news:vqWdndL4DOAsN0vU...@vex.net...
>> In article <f3603577864f4dd0...@remailer.paranoici.org>,
>> Anonymous <nob...@remailer.paranoici.org> wrote:
>>>The biggest victims of the 'holocaust' are the German people, saddled
>>>with reparations to worthless kikes.
>>
>> Ah! Another Noble Aryan Hero bravely vomits from the gutter.
>>
>>>The second biggest victim is the idea of historical truth and academic
>>>integrity.
>
>And as a holocaust promoter Kenneth you are a profiteer collecting extortion
>money.
ZUNDEL is a Holocaust promoter and profiteer - it made him a millionaire.
IRVING has failed at Holocaust profiteering, but I expect he'll keep
trying.
TORBEN is a Holocaust promoter and profiteer, as are GREG RAVEN, MARK
WEBER and the rest of the racist garbage at the IHR...
Strangely, you never condemn these Holocaust profiteers.
Why is that, Frau Pikelhaube? How much do they pay you to keep you
silent?
YOU have yet to prove that there are Holocaust victims' shoes
with soles made of plastic, as you claimed on April 3, 2009. You
were lying.
YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
claimed on July 3, 2008.
YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
"5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
as you have claimed.
YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
(2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
have claimed.
YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have claimed.
YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
within the treaty.
YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
light" as you have claimed.
YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or not
materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are available.
YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of newspapers
printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim about
gassings at Dachau.
YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque exists
outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever gassed there,
as you have claimed.
YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
claimed.
THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is so
easily revealed as a blatant lie.
YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
"dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
--
Has Edmonton's William Grosvenor obeyed the Court's
orders yet, and paid the $50,000 in damages and
additional substantial costs to Mr. Warman?
Tell it to the Judge: http://william-grosvenor.info
Truthseeker
Kurt Knoll.
"Kenneth McVay OBC" <kmc...@shell.vex.net> wrote in message
news:HaednXKmXNXJW0vU...@vex.net...
Kenneth McVay OBC
Zundel's a multimillionaire, as one of his wives has attested...
apparently, it pays to be a Holocaust promoter. His home in Toronto was
worth a few mil on its own, then there's the property he owns in Europe,
bequests from dead nazis.
Do you send him money, Frau Pikelhaube? Do you feed Facelift while her
Erniepoo's in the joint?
_ G O D _
> In article <%QzBl.19886$Db2.9431@edtnps83>,
> Truthseeker <kur...@citywest.ca> wrote:
>>Show me the money they did make and be truthfully about it.
>
> Zundel's a multimillionaire, as one of his wives has attested...
> apparently, it pays to be a Holocaust promoter. His home in Toronto was
> worth a few mil on its own, then there's the property he owns in Europe,
> bequests from dead nazis.
>
> Do you send him money, Frau Pikelhaube? Do you feed Facelift while her
> Erniepoo's in the joint?
>
> orders yet, and paid the $50,000 in damages and
> additional substantial costs to Mr. Warman?
Shanghai, China
By Li Xinran
Police across the country have been ordered to launch a
three-month campaign to combat the abuse of prisoners in ...
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200904/20090402/article_396301.htm
LGBT prisoner bill clears first hurdle
San Francisco, CA, USA
The measure would amend the Sexual Abuse in
Detention Elimination Act by adding sexual orientation
and gender identity to the current list of factors that ...
http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=3834
Questions, answers about domestic partner abuse
Boston, MA, USA
Should all abusers be sent to prison? Batterers'
intervention programs are really critical for perpetrators
of domestic violence. While [the programs] need ...
http://www.baystatebanner.com/natl20-2009-04-02
Miss Universe: Gitmo An "Interesting" Place
College Station, TX, USA
... shortly after he took office, to shut the prison
that has been the focus of investigation following
accusations of torture and prisoner abuse.
http://www.kbtx.com/national/headlines/42263102.html
ACLU: 'Endemic abuse' of inmates in St. Louis jails
Chicago, IL, United States
Cedric Cross, a former inmate at the Justice Center, contacted the local
chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union for help, alleging that a ...
http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-3677-aclu-lsendemic-abusers-of-inmates-in-st-louis-jails.html
Police records show Tampa woman endured abuse, forgave - until 911 ...
St. Petersburg, FL, USA
...at Orient Road Jail, another inmate stepped forward with details,
according to an account in 700 pages of documents and audio ...
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article989071.ece
Catch and release
Sacramento, CA, USA
The more risk and needs we can address in an inmate,
the lower chance they have to recidivate. In the cavernous
room where Johnson and the other men sleep ...
http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/content?oid=936668
--
_____________________________________________________
I intend to last long enough to put out of business all COck-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--
I'll Always Be 04/04/09
<LAyBl.19877$Db2.16928@edtnps83>,
"Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
wrote:
> "Kenneth McVay OBC" <kmc...@shell.vex.net> wrote in message
> news:vqWdndL4DOAsN0vU...@vex.net...
> > In article <f3603577864f4dd0...@remailer.paranoici.org>,
> > Anonymous <nob...@remailer.paranoici.org> wrote:
> >>The biggest victims of the 'holocaust' are the German people, saddled
> >>with reparations to worthless kikes.
> >
> > Ah! Another Noble Aryan Hero bravely vomits from the gutter.
> >
> >>The second biggest victim is the idea of historical truth and academic
> >>integrity.
>
> And as a holocaust promoter Kenneth you are a profiteer collecting extortion
> money.
> Kurt Knoll.
ZUNDEL is a Holocaust promoter and
profiteer - it made him a millionaire.
IRVING has failed at Holocaust
profiteering, but I expect he'll keep
trying.
TORBEN is a Holocaust promoter and
profiteer, as are GREG RAVEN, MARK
WEBER and the rest of the racist garbage
at the IHR...
Strangely, you never condemn these
Holocaust profiteers. Why is that?
I'll Always Be 04/04/09
> Show me the money they did make and be truthfully about it.
> Kurt Knoll.
Why not just ask zundel, irving and the
others?
Truthseeker
billions to outbid Zundel.
Kurt Knoll.
"Kenneth McVay OBC" <kmc...@shell.vex.net> wrote in message
news:WNydnUGmUcCZRkvU...@vex.net...
Truthseeker
"I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:aussies_suck-7286...@aries.weretis.net...
> In article
> <%QzBl.19886$Db2.9431@edtnps83>,
> "Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Show me the money they did make and be truthfully about it.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>
> Why not just ask zundel, irving and the
> others?
Kurt Knoll.
Truthseeker
back into your snake.
kk
"I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:aussies_suck-CF8A...@aries.weretis.net...
Kenneth McVay OBC
Truthseeker <kur...@citywest.ca> wrote:
>I suppose you are stupid enough to think we are believing you. Why not go
>back into your snake.
Stupid enough? Here is stupid enough:
138 Statements Demonstrating Leading Revisionist Scholar
Kurt Knoll's strict adherence to the high intellectual
standards of Holocaust denial:
(See http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/k/knoll-kurt/ for
the first 128 -- (Honest, Folks, I'm not making them up!)
129. "How is it going you uderedjucatet vegetable."
<2UBjl.10538$PH1.4917@edtnps82>,, Feb. 8, 2009
130. "It stinks like Jewish garlic keep it."
<WcZkl.11257$Db2.10086@edtnps83>, Feb. 12, 2009
131. "We all know you are here to but on a show trusting you we do not."
<yO2ll.11638$PH1.1510@edtnps82>, Feb. 12, 2009
132. "Why is it then American politicians take a trip to Israel and
worship a brick wall called the whaling wall."
<i%Bnl.13516$PH1.5781@edtnps82>, Feb. 20, 2009
133. "Hey you primitive Fuckhead it does not scare you when the
holohoax industrie can take do court people and take them
to a country who executing the will of Israel to punish
people for their opinion to protect Israel at any cost.
This is worse that the middle ages where not believer did
get burnet on the stake for not believing in the holy ghost."
<WeZql.15800$PH1.7826@edtnps82>, March 2, 2009
134. "When was this where did the go first."
<7LArl.15187$Db2.8415@edtnps83>, March 4, 2009
135. "You should talk to some remaking prisoners if Iks camp that
is if you are Men enough." <GXAsl.15738$Db2.9209@edtnps83>,
March 7, 2009
136. "When it is about zundel he is considered a non conforming I
sore for the holocaust industries." <Za%vl.18580$PH1.14520@edtnps82>,
March 17, 2009
137. "One has to look at the Jewish hat mongers. Everyone they say
something they spit out the word Nazi scare mongering is their
main diet. How much longer will he hold the whole world at ransom."
<Me4xl.17865$Db2.17004@edtnps83>, March 21, 2009
138. "Intersting and what is your real name.Ingeneer may invet
something but the people who use it are no vegetaples. You can talk
all you want people with brain will not trust you."
<wgfBl.21277$PH1.14820@edtnps82>, April 2, 2009
I'll Always Be 04/04/09
<qXGBl.21374$PH1.20599@edtnps82>,
"Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
wrote:
> Interesting when will you write a book about it. Who knows you could make
> billions to outbid Zundel.
> Kurt Knoll.
First you ask for proof he is making
money from the holocaust and now you
admit he is making billions. Thank you.
I'll Always Be 04/04/09
<hZGBl.21375$PH1.7454@edtnps82>,
"Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
wrote:
> "I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:aussies_suck-7286...@aries.weretis.net...
> > In article
> > <%QzBl.19886$Db2.9431@edtnps83>,
> > "Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Show me the money they did make and be truthfully about it.
> >> Kurt Knoll.
> >
> > Why not just ask zundel, irving and the
> > others?
> You made the claim where are your facts and not hearsay.
> Kurt Knoll.
>
Prove he isn't.
I'll Always Be 04/04/09
> I suppose you are stupid enough to think we are believing you.
I don't care if you believe me. What I
care about is finding the truth. You say
you are also interested in finding the
truth yet you won't tell us the real
number of people who died in a single
air raid on Nuremberg, nor will you tell
us the names of the german ships YOU
stated were harassed by the british
prior to WW2. What are you hiding?
> Why not go back into your snake.
You are Jewish, you are the snake.
Truthseeker
"I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> In article
> <qXGBl.21374$PH1.20599@edtnps82>,
> "Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Interesting when will you write a book about it. Who knows you could make
>> billions to outbid Zundel.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>
> First you ask for proof he is making
> money from the holocaust and now you
> admit he is making billions. Thank you.
This is what you are claiming you twisted snake.
Kurt Knoll.
Truthseeker
"I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> In article
> <j%GBl.21376$PH1.9872@edtnps82>,
> "Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> I suppose you are stupid enough to think we are believing you.
>
>
> I don't care if you believe me. What I
> care about is finding the truth. You say
> you are also interested in finding the
> truth yet you won't tell us the real
> number of people who died in a single
> air raid on Nuremberg, nor will you tell
> us the names of the german ships YOU
> stated were harassed by the british
> prior to WW2. What are you hiding?
What truth who is butting restriction in place that does not allow the
Germans or international nations nation to conduct their own investigation.
Tell us how many roadblocks are there in place for the Jews to intimate all
others.
Kurt Knoll.
Kenneth McVay OBC
Truthavoider <kur...@citywest.ca> wrote:
>"I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:aussies_suck-F36E...@aries.weretis.net...
[...]
>> I don't care if you believe me. What I
>> care about is finding the truth. You say
>> you are also interested in finding the
>> truth yet you won't tell us the real
>> number of people who died in a single
>> air raid on Nuremberg, nor will you tell
>> us the names of the german ships YOU
>> stated were harassed by the british
>> prior to WW2. What are you hiding?
>
>What truth who is butting restriction in place that does not allow the
>Germans or international nations nation to conduct their own investigation.
>Tell us how many roadblocks are there in place for the Jews to intimate all
>others.
None.
--
"Irving's conclusions were completely untenable. I thought his
scholarship was sloppy and unreliable and did not meet even the
most basic requirements of honest and competent historical
research." (Richard Evans, Lying About Hitler, p.70)
ZuLu
> In article <49ceb920$1...@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu <zu...@skeptikal.com> wrote:
>
>> m-weber escribi:
>
>>> Why did some of the furnaces break down? From overuse, yes?
>
>> Not exactly, mainly construction defects according with Pressac.
>
> So they could not manufacture good ovens, with all the
> experience they had?
Well, they used manpower available at the camp and probably war time material don't
give too much choice. We know that K IV and K V ovens used very poor refractory
material indeed.
>> However with the consumption of 802 tons of coke for all 1943,
>> that doesn't represent too much concerning the actual activity
>> of the ovens. I would say a very low activity in regard of the
>> total capacity installed.
>
> But again, child, you're not making any sense. You have
> admitted yourself that all crematoriums were operational. If
> there was "very low activity", why operate all of them? And
> you claim you're an engineer? Pfft.
The fact that an installation is operational doesn't mean that you will use it
24h/24. That means that it is available if you need to use it.
The "intense activity" you refer to is eventual because 2 turns were needed that day.
Why?
I don't know because more documents are necessary to get a picture of what those 2
turns were supposed to do THAT PRECISE DAY. Maybe they had to burn twice more corpses
than for a normal days...
>>> That's a postulate which for some reason -- in all probability
>>> mental illness -- you have decided to adopt.
>>>
>>> But then, you also deny the Nazi extermination policy, although
>>> it was proved to you -- time and time again -- that all the
>>> leaders of Nazi Germany, and even the judicial system, were
>>> perfectly aware that such a plan existed. Like all cultist
>>> fanatics, you are not willing to accept reality. That's all;
>>> a certain percentage of the people on this planet are crazy
>>> as bedbugs, and you happen to be one of them. And if I know
>>> anything about human nature, you'll be crazy as a bedbug
>>> for as long as you live. Pray for a miracle, poor child.
>
>> The issue is that nothing was proved.
>
> The intent to exterminate was proved, the extermination itself was
> proved, the physical and documentary evidence was provided.
Documentary evidence provided to prove "extermination at gas chambers" at Birkenau?
Documentary evidence for an "extermination plan"?
I hope you have some example to show...
> Hell, child -- look at this Taubner verdict that is often posted
> here. The Supreme SS and Police Court, no less, stated in a
> matter-of-factly fashion "The Jews have to be exterminated" and
> added "the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos
> were set up especially for this purpose".
Taubner verdict reports a sentence and words pronounced by some big nazi similar to
a Lieberman (well, I haven't even seen the genuine text).
I suppose we could find thousands of that sort from that time as Goering himself said
at Nuremberg.
What I am expecting is real proofs of "realization" and "facts" especially concerning
"massive gassing operations" at Birkenau.
Why is so difficult to find it whilst 80,000 files are available to the construction
of the "death factories"?
How can you explain that with that amount of documentation about a "death factory" we
can't find ANY DOCUMENT related with CRIMINAL INTENTION at Birkenau.
Give 80,000 documents about the construction of any factory and ask an engineer if he
wouldn't be able to tell what such factory is for.
That is simply incredible.
In fact, the examen of the plans shows a clear thing: SS planed and built morgues and
ovens at the Kremas based on civilian models of crematorium in use in Germany at that
time.
Why holoks are so reluctant to reject that simple evidence.
> As someone wrote, there is no evidence you'll accept; that is
> the trademark of cultist fanatics.
At the moment you haven't shown any...
ZuLu
1. That number is challenged
2- when you show me the consumption of coke/wood related with the period I'll tell
you the number of cadavers burned. Physics don't lie.
Now, if you insist in that number of 437,000, show me documentary evidences that
at least 12,000 tons of coke were burned in 4 months of 1944.
m-weber
ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
> m-weber escribió:
>> Now, do try to concentrate, and tell us what happened to 437,000 Hungarian
>> Jews deported to Auschwitz in the summer of 1944, as proved e.g. by
>> Veesenmayer's reports.
> 1. That number is challenged
No it's not.
> 2- when you show me the consumption of coke/wood related with the period
> I'll tell you the number of cadavers burned.
It was proved to you -- over and over again -- that you have grossly
exaggerated the coke/wood requirement, and also that coke and wood
were particularly easy to find around Auschwitz (there were coal
mines in two of its sub-camps, actually).
Now, you have yet to explain what happened to the 437,000
Hungarian Jews deported during the summer of 1944.
Where are they? Where are the tens of thousand of infants
and babies among them? Is there a record of them having been
transported anywhere? Of having been released from any camp?
And this was just one deportation.
You just can't answer this, right?
m-weber
ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
> m-weber escribi:
>> Hell, child -- look at this Taubner verdict that is often posted
>> here. The Supreme SS and Police Court, no less, stated in a
>> matter-of-factly fashion "The Jews have to be exterminated" and
>> added "the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos
>> were set up especially for this purpose".
> Taubner verdict reports a sentence and words pronounced by some
> big nazi
The Taubner verdict, issued by top Nazi jurists with ranks of
SS-Standartenfuehrer and SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer, states in a
matter-of-factly manner "The Jews have to be exterminated" and
then adds the part which you keep avoiding, "the accused should
have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty
of Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose".
Just to bring some facts into the discussion.
ZuLu
> In article <49ce...@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu <zu...@skeptikal.com> wrote:
>
>> How could he have recognized such bunch of idiotic claims about
>> ludicrous "gas chambers"?
>
> A document which mentions a 'gassing cellar' in an Auschwitz-Birkenau
> crematorium:
> http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Vergasungkeller.shtml
LOGIC tells morgue in construction are delayed.
> A document requesting cyanide gas detectors for an Auschwitz-Birkenau crematorium:
> http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Gas-Detector.shtml
LOL. SS had a lot of material to detect HCN for fumigations see NI-9912.
To HCN they used "detectors" like paper strips impregnated with a reactive product.
Why should have they required that kind of "detectors" precisely from Topf?
Not to mention that 10 is very little if it is about paper strip.
<quote NI-9912>
5. Gas detecting. The paper strip may not show a darker blue than the lightest
color, even between blankets and mattresses which have been placed on top of each
other, or in rooms that are not easily accessible and which it is difficult to air.
Should this not be the case, airing must be continued and the check for gas repeated
after a few hours.
</quote NI-9912>
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0020.htm
Those "10 detectors" were obviously to other purpose related with CO or other
undesirable gas at the ovens which were the domain of expertize of Topf.
I am curious to compare the exact German words used on that document and NI-9912.
Moreover, it is amazing that usual "eyewitnesses" NEVER REPORTED about that kind of
precaution before entering the "gas chamber". NOBODY told that SS verified the
presence of residual HCN after each "gassing operation".
Did they forget such special care for their lives SS were supposed to take?
A complete debunking with technical details
http://www.germarrudolf.com/work/trr/5.html#5.4.1.
> A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas chambers:
> http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
Morgues were fumigated from time to time, so what?
Anything else?
RJ11
ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
> RJ11 escribi:
>> A document which mentions a 'gassing cellar' in an Auschwitz-Birkenau
>> crematorium:
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Vergasungkeller.shtml
> LOGIC tells morgue in construction are delayed.
LOGIC tells that a a documents which speaks of a "gassing cellar"
is referring to a gassing cellar.
See a doctor, snivel. You're losing it.
RJ.
Truthseeker
Who is Richard Evans how much basic education does he have. I think he
believes his own bullshit.
Kurt Knoll.
Kenneth McVay OBC
He is Regius Professor of Modern History and Chairman of the Falculty of
History at the University of Cambridge, Frau Pikelhaube.
Unlike you, or David "See you, Sue you" Irving, Dr. Evans has a LOT of
credibility.
--
"In the final analysis, one does not refute a closed system, a total
lie that is not refutable to the extent that its conclusions has
preceded any evidence." (Vidal-Naquet, Pierre. Assassins of Memory,
New York: Columbia University Press. p.81)
I'll Always Be 05/04/09
<g5OBl.20010$Db2.8269@edtnps83>,
"Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
wrote:
> "I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:aussies_suck-F36E...@aries.weretis.net...
> > In article
> > <j%GBl.21376$PH1.9872@edtnps82>,
> > "Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I suppose you are stupid enough to think we are believing you.
> >
> >
> > I don't care if you believe me. What I
> > care about is finding the truth. You say
> > you are also interested in finding the
> > truth yet you won't tell us the real
> > number of people who died in a single
> > air raid on Nuremberg, nor will you tell
> > us the names of the german ships YOU
> > stated were harassed by the british
> > prior to WW2. What are you hiding?
>
> What truth
How many truths do you know? What we
want is the real one...you know like
when you say the british harassed german
shipping prior to WW2, we want the names
of the ships...that is the truth we want.
> who is butting restriction in place that does not allow the
> Germans or international nations nation to conduct their own investigation.
That is a very good question. WHO IS
BUTTING RESTRICTIONS? Can you tell us
who these people are? Can you tell us
what restrictions they have put in
place? Are they putting restrictions on
you so you can't tell us the names of
the german ships that YOU say were
harassed by the british prior to WW2?
Are they putting restrictions on you
that prevent you from telling us the
real number of people killed in a single
air raid on Nuremberg? Are they
preventing you from telling us the name
of the Synagogue YOU say was in
Nuremberg when you say the trials took
place?
> Tell us how many roadblocks are there in place for the Jews to intimate all
> others.
> Kurt Knoll.
Much fewer than the roadblocks you
present when asked to tell us the truth.
Zulu
> In article <49d7c...@news.x-privat.org>,
> ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
>
> > m-weber escribió:
> >> Now, do try to concentrate, and tell us what happened to 437,000 Hungarian
> >> Jews deported to Auschwitz in the summer of 1944, as proved e.g. by
> >> Veesenmayer's reports.
> > 1. That number is challenged
>
> No it's not.
>
> > 2- when you show me the consumption of coke/wood related with the period
> > I'll tell you the number of cadavers burned.
>
> It was proved to you -- over and over again -- that you have grossly
> exaggerated the coke/wood requirement,
Well, who proved it actually?
No secret, I based my estimation on actual work of the ovens installed
at Gusen. See the corresponding time sheet.
Do you have better basis to evaluate the actual coke's consumption of
that model of ovens designed and built by Topf & Shoene?
If you allege that "Van Pelt fallcy" about a supposed "higher
productivity" of the ovens installed at Birkenau, I previoulsy
demonstrated that the man could be an architect but he has to learn a
bit on oven's technology to act as a guru on that matter.
He was a complete disaster on addressing that question and I showed
why. Try google.
> and also that coke and wood
> were particularly easy to find around Auschwitz (there were coal
> mines in two of its sub-camps, actually).
Well, big quantities transported, delivered and burned always leave
documentary traces with nazi burocracy, I suppose, no matter where
they come from.
12,000 tons of coke supposedly burned in 4 months represented 15 times
the consumption of ALL 1943. A real REVOLUTION at that camp.
So, where are the documentary evidences of such REVOLUTION in coke's
consumption or whatever was its equivalence in even more wood?
m-weber
Zulu <zu...@volcanomail.com> wrote:
> On 4 abr, 21:47, m-weber <m-we...@do-not-spam-me-please.com> wrote:
>> It was proved to you -- over and over again -- that you have grossly
>> exaggerated the coke/wood requirement,
> Well, who proved it actually?
> No secret, I based my estimation on actual work of the ovens installed
> at Gusen. See the corresponding time sheet.
"Because you ignore the fact that many of the Auschwitz victims
were very young and had a very small body mass; because you vastly
over-estimate the amount of wood required for cremation; because
you ignore the fact that the SS developed techniques to reduce
the required amount of fuel, such as simultaneous cremation,
which are even described in the Topf manual."
"Regarding wood, have a look at how the Germans burned in the
open some of the victims of the Dresden raid:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/dresden.shtml
I don't see the numerous amounts of wood you claim would have
been necessary."
>> and also that coke and wood
>> were particularly easy to find around Auschwitz (there were coal
>> mines in two of its sub-camps, actually).
> Well, big quantities transported, delivered and burned always leave
> documentary traces with nazi burocracy, I suppose, no matter where
> they come from.
How do you know? Numerous records were destroyed.
But -- if you claim that transports always leave records, then
where are the records explaining what happened to these 437,000
Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz? Where are the records
of their alleged "transfers to other camps"? There would be
no reason to destroy these records, right? And moreover --
where are these people? Where are the tens of thousands of
infants and babies among them? Are there any records and
any testimonies of them released from any camp?
I'll Always Be 06/04/09
<g5OBl.20010$Db2.8269@edtnps83>,
"Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
wrote:
> "I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:aussies_suck-F36E...@aries.weretis.net...
> > In article
> > <j%GBl.21376$PH1.9872@edtnps82>,
> > "Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I suppose you are stupid enough to think we are believing you.
> >
> >
> > I don't care if you believe me. What I
> > care about is finding the truth. You say
> > you are also interested in finding the
> > truth yet you won't tell us the real
> > number of people who died in a single
> > air raid on Nuremberg, nor will you tell
> > us the names of the german ships YOU
> > stated were harassed by the british
> > prior to WW2. What are you hiding?
>
> What truth
The truth you are looking for: for
instance we know that you want to know
how many people really died in a single
air raid on Nuremberg and we know you
want to know the truth about the names
of the german ships that YOU say were
harassed by the british prior to WW2.
who is butting restriction in place
that does not allow the
> Germans or international nations nation to conduct their own investigation.
You are. You refuse to tell us the truth
and that is the ultimate restriction on
germans or international nations.
> Tell us how many roadblocks are there in place for the Jews to intimate all
> others.
> Kurt Knoll.
The only roadblocks are the laziness and
stupidity of the knolls of the world
I'll Always Be 06/04/09
<91OBl.20009$Db2.16622@edtnps83>,
"Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
wrote:
> "I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:aussies_suck-3C5B...@aries.weretis.net...
> > In article
> > <qXGBl.21374$PH1.20599@edtnps82>,
> > "Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting when will you write a book about it. Who knows you could make
> >> billions to outbid Zundel.
> >> Kurt Knoll.
> >
> > First you ask for proof he is making
> > money from the holocaust and now you
> > admit he is making billions. Thank you.
>
> This is what you are claiming you twisted snake.
> Kurt Knoll.
>
> >
No, it is what you claimed.
I'll Always Be 06/04/09
> "I'll Always Be 04/04/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:aussies_suck-7286...@aries.weretis.net...
> > In article
> > <%QzBl.19886$Db2.9431@edtnps83>,
> > "Truthseeker" <kur...@citywest.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Show me the money they did make and be truthfully about it.
> >> Kurt Knoll.
> >
> > Why not just ask zundel, irving and the
> > others?
> You made the claim where are your facts and not hearsay.
> Kurt Knoll.
Thank you for admitting that my facts
are the truth.
ZuLu
> In article <49d67a8e$2...@news.x-privat.org>,>> m-weber escribi�:
>
>>> So you say, so you say. I'll be happy to discuss this, but first
>>> answer my question and tell us where these 437,000 Hungarian Jews,
>>> among them about 100,000 children and infants, vanished to.
>>>
>>> Especially, the release of such a large number of children and infants
>>> would be very noticeable. If you claim they were transported out
>>> of Auschwitz, please submit documents proving this, and name
>>> the camps they were released from.
>
>> If you claim that 437,000 Hungarians were gassed and burned, then provide
>> the corresponding consume of coke or wood.
>
> This has been answered by RJ. Basically, your estimate of the
> amount of the required coke/wood is far too high, and moreover,
> wood and coal were pretty easy to obtain (there were actually
> coal mines in two Auschwitz sub-camps).
LOL. Prove that is "far too hight" moron.
That the famous RJ trick!
DO your homework on real basis
ZuLu
> In article <49d7...@news.x-privat.org>,
> ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
>
>> m-weber escribió:
>
>>> Now, do try to concentrate, and tell us what happened to 437,000 Hungarian
>>> Jews deported to Auschwitz in the summer of 1944, as proved e.g. by
>>> Veesenmayer's reports.
>
>> 1. That number is challenged
>
> No it's not.
Well, go back to school moron.
Just one "alternative" with 117,000 "gassed" less on "your number".
"Gerlach and Aly have found that 4 transports with about 15,000 Hungarian Jews were
re-directed to Strasshof. Assuming that Veesenmayer’s figure of 437,402 deported Jews
is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000 Jews not
gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about 320,000
Hungarian Jews were gassed, not about 400,000, as has been assumed by historians."
http://www.actionreinhardcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm
If a part of those always assumed as "gassed" by the holoks were actually sent to
other destinations,
why not the remaining?
>> 2- when you show me the consumption of coke/wood related with the period
>> I'll tell you the number of cadavers burned.
>
> It was proved to you -- over and over again -- that you have grossly
> exaggerated the coke/wood requirement, and also that coke and wood
> were particularly easy to find around Auschwitz (there were coal
> mines in two of its sub-camps, actually).
LOL, Proved by who?
You felt on the RJ trick, did you? LOL.
You don't miss any opportunity to make a fool of yourself, do you?
Don't rely in that moron of RJ, do your homework by yourself idiot, calculate the
coke's consumption on a 2 muffles x 2 furnace built by Topf.
You will find from where I based my calculations.
All is there duly appointed in a real life.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/gusen-cremation-timesheet/
Some young Hungarians jews sent to Auschwitz on the "fatal" period and who survived
-> A 17 year old Jewish Hungarian girl sent to Auschwitz in August 1944 an still alive.
Kate Bernath
"Born 1927, Szikszo, Hungary
After the German invasion of Hungary in 1944, Kate and her family were deported first
to the Kosice ghetto and then to the Auschwitz camp in Poland. Kate and other
prisoners were sent on to the Plaszow camp, also in Poland. As partisan raids
increased and the front drew closer, they were sent back to Auschwitz in August 1944."
-> A 18 year old Jewish Hungarian boy deported to Auschwitz in May 1944
Bart Stern
Born 1926, Hungary
Following the German occupation of Hungary in March 1944, Bart was forced into a
ghetto established in his home town. From May to July 1944, the Germans deported Jews
from Hungary to the Auschwitz extermination camp in occupied Poland. Bart was
deported by cattle car to Auschwitz. At Auschwitz, he was selected to perform forced
labor, drilling and digging in a coal mine.
http://www.projetaladin.org/en/voices-and-faces.html
See the other on the page.
-> A 16 year old Jewish Hungarian boy deported to Auschwitz in May 1944 and alive
Miklos Gruner
In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, he was deported from Hungary to
Auschwitz-Birkenau
http://www.henrymakow.com/translated_from_the_hungarian.html
Aren't they the living proofs that NO PLAN OF EXTERMINATION was running at Auschwitz
including to Jewish Hungarian young people in May or August 1944?
If those few are on that page because they are known, how many more are here and there?
Anyway, we just don't find ANY TRACE of the LARGE AMOUNT OF FUEL needed to burn
several hundred of those supposed "Gassed Hungarians jews"...
ZuLu
> In article <cda2c70b-9e28-4850...@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> Zulu <zu...@volcanomail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4 abr, 21:47, m-weber <m-we...@do-not-spam-me-please.com> wrote:
>
>>> It was proved to you -- over and over again -- that you have grossly
>>> exaggerated the coke/wood requirement,
>
>> Well, who proved it actually?
>> No secret, I based my estimation on actual work of the ovens installed
>> at Gusen. See the corresponding time sheet.
>
> "Because you ignore the fact that many of the Auschwitz victims
> were very young and had a very small body mass; because you vastly
> over-estimate the amount of wood required for cremation; because
> you ignore the fact that the SS developed techniques to reduce
> the required amount of fuel, such as simultaneous cremation,
> which are even described in the Topf manual."
LOL. "simultaneous cremation" that idiocy is already addressed.
BTW, where did you find that I "over-estimate the amount of wood required for
cremation"?
I just speak about coke and eventually its equivalence in wood.
> "Regarding wood, have a look at how the Germans burned in the
> open some of the victims of the Dresden raid:
> http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/dresden.shtml
> I don't see the numerous amounts of wood you claim would have
> been necessary."
What quantity have you calculated?
Only wood or the help of some liquid fuel like benzine?
How about the remains?
Do you think that they made only ashes by that mean?
>>> and also that coke and wood
>>> were particularly easy to find around Auschwitz (there were coal
>>> mines in two of its sub-camps, actually).
>
>> Well, big quantities transported, delivered and burned always leave
>> documentary traces with nazi burocracy, I suppose, no matter where
>> they come from.
>
> How do you know? Numerous records were destroyed.
True, especially on Russians hands...
> But -- if you claim that transports always leave records, then
> where are the records explaining what happened to these 437,000
> Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz? Where are the records
> of their alleged "transfers to other camps"? There would be
> no reason to destroy these records, right? And moreover --
> where are these people? Where are the tens of thousands of
> infants and babies among them? Are there any records and
> any testimonies of them released from any camp?
Well, some have been found, not less than 117,000 of those "gassed".
"Gerlach and Aly have found that 4 transports with about 15,000 Hungarian Jews were
re-directed to Strasshof. Assuming that Veesenmayer’s figure of 437,402 deported Jews
is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000 Jews not
gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about 320,000
Hungarian Jews were gassed, not about 400,000, as has been assumed by historians."
http://www.actionreinhardcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm
If a part of those always assumed as "gassed" by the holoks were actually sent to
other destinations,
Why not the remaining?
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
>> But -- if you claim that transports always leave records, then
>> where are the records explaining what happened to these 437,000
>> Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz? Where are the records
>> of their alleged "transfers to other camps"? There would be
>> no reason to destroy these records, right? And moreover --
>> where are these people? Where are the tens of thousands of
>> infants and babies among them? Are there any records and
>> any testimonies of them released from any camp?
> Well, some have been found, not less than 117,000 of those "gassed".
>
> "Gerlach and Aly have found that 4 transports with about 15,000 Hungarian Jews were
> re-directed to Strasshof. Assuming that Veesenmayer�s figure of 437,402 deported Jews
> is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000 Jews not
> gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about 320,000
> Hungarian Jews were gassed, not about 400,000, as has been assumed by historians."
>
> http://www.actionreinhardcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm
>
> If a part of those always assumed as "gassed" by the holoks were actually sent to
> other destinations, Why not the remaining?
It is well-known that some were sent to other destinations. But
that's a small part. What happened to the rest? Where are the tens
of thousands of infants and babies among them? Are there any records
and any testimonies of them released from any camp?
Let's assume 300,000 people, from this deportation action only.
Where are they? You just can't answer this, can you?
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
> "Gerlach and Aly have found that 4 transports with about 15,000 Hungarian Jews were
> re-directed to Strasshof. Assuming that Veesenmayer’s figure of 437,402 deported Jews
> is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000 Jews not
> gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about 320,000
> Hungarian Jews were gassed, not about 400,000, as has been assumed by historians."
>
> http://www.actionreinhardcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm
>
> If a part of those always assumed as "gassed" by the holoks were actually sent to
> other destinations, why not the remaining?
It is well-known that some were sent to other destinations. But
that's a small part. What happened to the rest? Where are the tens
of thousands of infants and babies among them? Are there any records
and any testimonies of them released from any camp?
Let's assume 300,000 people, from this deportation action only.
Where are they? You just can't answer this, can you?
> Some young Hungarians jews sent to Auschwitz on the "fatal" period and who
> survived
"Some" is not good enough. You listed four teenagers. Very good. You're
still missing over 300,000, among them tens of thousands of infants
and babies. Where are they? Answer the question. Just answer the
question.
RJ11
(snip)
"The accused shall not be punished because of the actions
against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although
the accused should have recognized that the extermination of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
for this purpose, he should be excused for considering himself
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry
himself." -- from the verdict of the Supreme SS and Police Court,
in the case of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943.
Quoted from "The Good Old Days", E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess,
The Free Press, NY, 1988, pages 196-207.
RJ.
RJ11
(snip)
"But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all considerations
of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we find them, and wherever
it is at all possible". From a speech by Hans Frank, Governor of Nazi-occupied
Poland, in a Regierungssitzung (cabinet meeting) 16.12.41, printed in Das
Diensttagebuch des deutschen Generalgouverneurs in Polen 1929-1945 (Stuttgart,
1975), pp. 457-8.
RJ.
RJ11
(snip)
Two of the Birkenau crematoriums:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema3.shtml
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema4.shtml
A document which mentions a "gassing cellar" in an Auschwitz-Birkenau
crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Vergasungkeller.shtml
A document requesting cyanide gas detectors for an Auschwitz-Birkenau crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Gas-Detector.shtml
Cremation furnaces:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnaces.shtml
A report by SS experts, estimating the cremation capacity in Auschwitz-
Birkenau at 4,756 corpses in 24 hours:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnace-capacity.shtml
SS labor deployment report, listing 870 stokers in the Auschwitz-
Birkenau crematoriums:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.shtml
A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas chambers:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
RJ.
Prince Andy
"ZuLu" <zu...@coolrabbits.com> wrote in message
news:49db...@news.x-privat.org...
> m-weber escribi�:
>> In article <49d67a8e$2...@news.x-privat.org>,
>> ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
>>
>>> m-weber escribi�:
>>
>>>> So you say, so you say. I'll be happy to discuss this, but first
>>>> answer my question and tell us where these 437,000 Hungarian Jews,
>>>> among them about 100,000 children and infants, vanished to.
>>>>
>>>> Especially, the release of such a large number of children and infants
>>>> would be very noticeable. If you claim they were transported out
>>>> of Auschwitz, please submit documents proving this, and name
>>>> the camps they were released from.
>>
>>> If you claim that 437,000 Hungarians were gassed and burned, then
>>> provide
>>> the corresponding consume of coke or wood.
>>
>> This has been answered by RJ. Basically, your estimate of the
>> amount of the required coke/wood is far too high, and moreover,
>> wood and coal were pretty easy to obtain (there were actually
>> coal mines in two Auschwitz sub-camps).
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/09/frequently-asked-questions-about.html
Refute this? Instead of refuting the evidence they are constantly trying to
stop any discussion of the facts.
http://www.usajewish.com/downloads/vicki-devil-worship.wmv
http://www.honestmediatoday.com/david_cole.htm
His attorney, Ludwig Bock, said he would appeal.
"What is notable is the iron-hard refusal of the court to allow
consideration of new scientific findings or expert opinions," Bock said.
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/02/15/570024-holocaust-denier-gets-prison-in-germany
sentenced to the maximum five years in prison Thursday for anti-Semitic
activities, including contributing to a Web site dedicated to Holocaust
denial.
An Australian citizen, Dr Fredrick Toben, was arrested in Germany in April
1999 and will go on trial in early November.
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/toben.htm
http://www.usajewish.com/downloads/vicki-devil-worship.wmv
"JimC" <jimco...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1161264254.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > If they could find at least one gas chamber some place, or at least
the
> > > foundations of a gas chamber, they might have something to go by. BUT
> > > THERE IS NONE.
>
> That is absolute nonsense. The Holocaust is one of the most documented
> events in history.
>
And museums and memorials and jews willing to swear on a stack of bibles, er
Torahs, that they saw one in whatever camp they claimed to be in.
What we do know for sure is that the zionists thought it was all a hell of a
good idea for recruiting cannon fodder for Palestine/israel.
No Evidence Of Genocide
One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it
clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in
the camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaotic
condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the
war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed
an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the
German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ...
In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and
General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results.
Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate
was authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).
Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire
situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit
in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied
bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned
Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous
aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October
2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending
collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that
starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming
inevitable.
In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is
important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross
found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of a
deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages the
Report does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admits
that Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours and
privations, but its complete silence on the subject of planned
extermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like the
Vatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross found
itself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocide
which had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortality
rate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewish
doctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the eastern
front, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945
broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) - Incidentally, it is
frequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gas
chambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Report
makes nonsense of this allegation. "Not only the washing places, but
installations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by the
delegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made less
primitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).
Not All Were Interned
Volume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian
Population) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of the
free population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by no
means all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, but
remained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the free
civilian population. This conflicts directly with the "thoroughness"
of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in the
forged H�ss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "every
single Jew he could lay his hands on."
In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wisliceny
was in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of the
Jewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certain
periods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge for
Jews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained in
Slovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end of
August 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. While
it is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about the
internment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in camps
where the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where the
internees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to those
of the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).
Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews
avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued
throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.
Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupied
territories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of the
Polish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jews
from Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits to
the United States were held to be American citizens by the German
occupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity of
about three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates of
South American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).
As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp in
southern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jews
from Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by the
German authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report,
"Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leave
Hungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the Horthy
Government in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the Soviet
Union) with a government more dependent on German authority, the
emigration of Jews continued.
The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the United
States "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews from
Hungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a message
stating that "The Government of the United States ... now specifically
repeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for the
care of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed to
leave" (Vol. I, p . 649).
Casualties in WW2
Not including the documented 5 million non Jewish in concentration camps
who far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims. And this
is without lies and exaggerations about non jewish cassualities. And freedom
for any historian or amateur history buff to examine and point out flaws
without fear of castigation or jail terms.
And no one is going around asking for special favors and sympathy because of
these immense casualities. And certainly don't look like getting anything
from jewish interests who by lies have swollen their numbers to higher than
these.
Soviet Union 25,568,000
China 11,324,000
Germany 7,060,000
Poland 6,850,000
Japan 1,806,000
Yugoslavia 1,700,000
Rumania 985,000
France 810,000
Austria 525,000
Italy 410,000
Great Britain 388,000
USA 295,000
Holland 250,000
Belgium 85,000
Finland 79,000
Canada 42,000
India 36,000
Australia 29,000
Albania 28,000
Spain 22,000
Bulgaria 21,000
New Zealand 12,000
Norway 10,000
South Africa 9,000
Luxembourg 5,000
Denmark 4,000
http://www.heretical.com/miscella/rudolf.html
Official German Record of Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, May
1940 through December 1944
Dr. Germar Rudolf
Table 1: Non-Jewish Prisoners Entering Auschwitz
1940 1941 1942 1943 1944
TOTALS 6769 22632 26561 76310 29513
http://www.ussliberty.org/
"The saving of the Jews in Europe did not figure at the head of the list of
priorities of the ruling class. It was the foundation of the State which was
primordial in their eyes."
http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/books/miscelleneous/the-founding-myths-of-israeli-politics/part3.htm
"The masses of Jews from Hungary's ghettos obediently boarded the
deportation trains without knowing their fate. They were full of
confidence in the false information that they were being transferred to
Kenyermeze.
The Nazis could not have misled the masses of Jews so conclusively had
they not spread their false information through Jewish channels.
The Jews of the ghettos would not have trusted the Nazi or Hungarian
rulers. But they had trust in their Jewish leaders. Eichmann and others
used this known fact as part of their calculated plan to mislead the Jews.
They were able to deport the Jews to their extermination by the help of
Jewish leaders.
The false information was spread by the Jewish leaders. The local leaders
of the Jews of Kluj and Nodvarod knew that other leaders were spreading
such false information and did not protest.
Those of the Jews who tried to warn their friends of the truth were
persecuted by the Jewish leaders in charge of the local 'rescue work'.
A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary
in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily.
She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of "gas
chambers" during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing
stories only later. [15]
Inmates Released
More than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,
and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. In
addition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences were
released, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz had
actually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans have
released inmates who "knew" what was happening there?
Himmler Orders Death Rate Reduced
The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died in
German work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.
Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hunger
caused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of her
infrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realize
that
the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942 until
the end of the war.
That office never reported or recorded any atrocities (Several years ago
international Jewry forced the Red Cross to apologize to the Jews -
apologize for not seeing something that never happened.)
Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation
as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that
food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German
transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on
March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter
Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German
Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation
system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany
were becoming inevitable.
Read the Red Cross reports. Go to the Red Cross museum, headquarters
in your city and pick up the records. Anyway theres a few independent
witnesses.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=293321480
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
During World WarII, Rassinier was a highly decorated member of the French
Resistance. In October of 1943 he was arrested by the Gestapo for various
activities including the smuggling of Jewish refugees over the Franco-Swiss
border. http://www.codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/PORT1RAS.HTML
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2_Letters.html
On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A. Lindbergh
broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that when
Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WW2, he was
told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/lindbergh3.html
As a historical revisionist, in the tradition of Harry Elmer Barnes, Charles
A. Beard, Herman Hesse, Frederick Bausman, his aim is simply "keeping the
record straight."
http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html
I, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are persons
with PhD's in various fields who
also deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Until
recently, there was never a forensic
examination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). Demographic figures
are incomplete. After the fall
of East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled Poland
into the Soviet Union or ended up
behind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many civilians
died in the war, many died in the
concentration camps of louse-born typhus. During World War One, two million
civilians in the Soviet Union died
of typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.
Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a Holocaust
Documentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged victims
of Nazi
extermination. But as you can see HERE
(http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann), nearly
every name is listed at least
twice, some as many as five times!
http://www.yadvashem.org/lwp/workplace/IY_HON_Welcome
Yad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearly
everyone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, including
you can submit a "Page of Testimony".
And of course we have lists duplicated, unconfirmed, but 3m according to our
usual jewish/Zionist sources.
Put your name in, you might be missing out on reparations.
Has been improvements since this, numbers still very dicey.
Name Town District Region
Country Bday Source
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1879 list of victims from Germany
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1879 list of deportation from Berlin
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1905 list of deportation from Berlin
It is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions with
louse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)
or diesel exhaust as alleged by malicious "witnesses" or tortured
confessors. There are no written orders for
extermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration camps
show no smoke and flames
belching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and records
show there was not enough coke or
crematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and confessors
lied about how many minutes it takes
to cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount of
carbon monoxide to kill a human. If
the Nazis wanted to kill millions they could have driven the coal fired
train into a tunnel or quonset hut and gassed
'em with the exhaust from the locomotive or used the exhaust from the
crematoria. At Auschwitz, during a typhus
epidemic, up to 300 people died per day, hence the crematoria, shaving of
heads and requisitions for tons of
Zyklon B louse disinfestant. HCN is a very dangerous, impractical, messy
method for extermination.
http://www.vho.org/
The Holocaust Controversy A Case for open Debate
The Gas Chambers are a fraud, a tourist attraction, slander, demonizing,
impractical/impossible, malicious
atrocity propaganda spread by the communists, who hated Hitler and
perpetrated by Jews, who were always
looking for ways to get to the lands of milk and money. The Jews have
extorted billions from the US Treasury,
Germany, Swiss banks and insurance companies on account of the Holohoax
fraud. The Holohoax also makes
those who fought Hitler feel like they did something good fighting the
demon, Hitler instead of letting Hitler take
on Stalin alone.
A "liberal" person has an open mind. A bigot is irrational and obstinate.
Franciszek Piper, director of the historical committee of the
Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum, said yesterday that, according to recent
research, at least 1.3 million people were deported to the camp, of whom
about 223,000 survived.
The 1.1 million victims included 960,000 Jews, between 70,000 and 75,000
Poles, nearly all of the 23,000 Gypsies sent to the camp and 15,000
Soviet prisoners of war.<<
Official Auschwitz figures!
http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/history/auschwitz-figures.htm
Some indeed died by disease, old age and accidents of war.
Most did at the end of war, thanks to the Allie efficient bombing of
railroad transportation.
But at
least half..at the least, died by the hands of the Turd Reich.
Not true! Jews were put to labor camps, for security reason and later to
move them to Palestine or Madagascar.
Same reason as the US forced some 150,000 Jap-Americans and Germans into
camps.
It
makes no difference if they were machinegunned into mass graves by the
Einsatzgruppen, or the aroma of Zyklon B,
Zyklon-B was a disinfectants, to delouse housing, personal belongings of
inmates.
It was used for to save lives not kill. After the war propaganda lies
changed that.
The Wiesenthal Record
While it is gratifying to note that, in his recent "Revisionist" letter,
Wiesenthal implicitly "denies history" as "established" by the Nuremberg
Tribunal, it must be pointed out that nearly everything else he says is
untrue.
There is not a shred of evidence, for example, that "a gas chamber was
in the process of being built at Dachau, but it was never completed."
(See "The Second Leuchter Report" by American gas chamber expert Fred
Leuchter in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1990.) There is
likewise no proof that "mentally and physically handicapped people were
killed" by gas at any of the four "institutions" Wiesenthal mentions.
This US Army photo was taken at Dachau on April 30, 1945, one day after
the camp's capture. It shows a GI standing in front of a door marked
with a skull and crossbones and the words "Caution! Gas! Life danger! Do
not open!" According to the official caption, "these chambers were used
by Nazi guards for killing prisoners of the infamous Dachau
concentration camp." In fact, this is a small disinfection gas chamber
used for delousing clothes. It was never used to kill people. For
several decades, this photo has been widely reproduced to help keep
alive the notorious Dachau "gas chamber" myth. (US Army photo SC 206194.)
Actually -- and contrary to his highly flattering public image -- the
renowned "Nazi hunter" has a well-documented but little-known record of
deceit, mendacity and prevarication. Some highlights:
Wiesenthal repeatedly lied about his alleged role in locating Adolf
Eichmann, was consistently wrong about Josef Mengele, and falsely
accused Polish-American Frank Walus of having murdered Jews in Poland as
a Gestapo official. Wiesenthal has absurdly charged that the Germans
exterminated Jews in "electrocution chambers," and that they
manufactured bars of soap from the bodies of murdered Jews. His
deception about his own wartime activities prompted Austrian Chancellor
Bruno Kreisky (himself of Jewish ancestry) to accuse the "Nazi hunter"
of having collaborated with his wartime oppressors. (For details about
Wiesenthal's record, see: M. Weber, "Simon Wiesenthal: Bogus Nazi
Hunter," The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1989-90.)
THE CANADIAN JEWISH NEWS, Jan. 30, 1992
Wannsee's importance rejected
London (JTA) - An Israeli Holocaust scholar has debunked the Wannsee
Conference, at which top Nazi officials are said to have gathered at a
villa in a Berlin suburb in 1942 to draw the blueprints of the "Final
Solution."
According to Prof. Yehuda Bauer (photo) of the Hebrew University in
Jerusalem, Wannsee was a meeting, "but hardly a conference", and
"little of what was said there was executed in detail."
"The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at
Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at."
"I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert, nor
have I written books about what is now called the Holocaust."
"I have done my best to prepare the case that follows, but
I respectfully submit that I do not have any duty to become an
expert on the Holocaust, my Lord."
"I have never claimed to be a Holocaust historian. As I have
said, I have no written no book about the Holocaust. I have written
no article about it. If I have spoken about it, it is usually
because somebody has asked me a question, I have been questioned
about it. On such occasions I have emphasised my lack of expertise
and I have expatiated only upon those areas with which I am familiar."
The Jews And The Concentration Camps:
A Factual Appraisal By The Red Cross.
There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe during World War
Two and the conditions of Germany's concentration camps which is
almost unique in its honesty and objectivity, the three-volume Report
of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities
during the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.
This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source
incorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works:
Documents sur l'activit� du CICR en faveur des civils d�tenus dans les
camps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and
Inter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War
(Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Fr�d�ric Siordet,
explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in the
tradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, and
herein lies its great value.
The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention in
order to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and Western
Europe by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable to
gain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify the
Convention. The millions of civilian and military internees held in
the USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, were
completely cut off from any international contact or supervision.
The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies the
legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in
concentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the two
categories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the second
type as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German,
"Schutzh�ftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motives
because their presence was considered a danger to the State or the
occupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues,
"were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisoned
under common law for security reasons." (P.74).
The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permit
supervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating to
security, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained important
concessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute food
parcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and
"from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all other
camps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78). The ICRC soon established
contact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programme
which continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters of
thanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.
Red Cross Recipients Were Jews
The Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily.
From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with a
total weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps"
(Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing and
pharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald,
Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg,
Landsberg-am-Lech, Fl�ha, Ravensbr�ck, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen,
Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and in
Central and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians,
Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews"
(Vol. III, p. 83).
In the course of the war, "The Committee was in a position to transfer
and distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty million
Swiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organisations throughout the
world, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee of
New York" (Vol. I, p. 644). This latter organisation was permitted by
the German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the American
entry into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vast
relief operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans but
from the tight Allied blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases of
relief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.
The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which prevailed
at Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in April
1945. This camp, "where there were about 40,000 Jews deported from
various countries was a relatively privileged ghetto" (Vol. III, p.
75). According to the Report, "'The Committee's delegates were able to
visit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusively
for Jews and was governed by special conditions. From information
gathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experiment
by certain leaders of the Reich ... These men wished to give the Jews
the means of setting up a communal life in a town under their own
administration and possessing almost complete autonomy. . . two
delegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. They
confirmed the favourable impression gained on the first visit" (Vol.
I, p . 642).
The ICRC also had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of Fascist
Rumania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to
183,000 Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation. The aid
then ceased, and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded
"in sending anything whatsoever to Russia" (Vol. II, p. 62). The same
situation applied to many of the German camps after their "liberation"
by the Russians. The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail from
Auschwitz until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of the
internees were evacuated westward. But the efforts of the Red Cross to
send relief to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet control
were futile. However, food parcels continued to be sent to former
Auschwitz inmates transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald and
Oranienburg.
No Evidence Of Genocide
One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it
clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in
the camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaotic
condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the
war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed
an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the
German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ...
In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and
General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results.
Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate
was authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).
Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire
situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit
in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied
bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned
Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous
aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October
2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending
collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that
starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming
inevitable.
In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is
important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross
found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of a
deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages the
Report does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admits
that Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours and
privations, but its complete silence on the subject of planned
extermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like the
Vatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross found
itself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocide
which had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortality
rate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewish
doctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the eastern
front, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945
broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) - Incidentally, it is
frequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gas
chambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Report
makes nonsense of this allegation. "Not only the washing places, but
installations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by the
delegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made less
primitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).
Not All Were Interned
Volume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian
Population) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of the
free population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by no
means all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, but
remained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the free
civilian population. This conflicts directly with the "thoroughness"
of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in the
forged H�ss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "every
single Jew he could lay his hands on."
In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wisliceny
was in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of the
Jewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certain
periods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge for
Jews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained in
Slovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end of
August 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. While
it is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about the
internment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in camps
where the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where the
internees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to those
of the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).
Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews
avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued
throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.
Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupied
territories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of the
Polish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jews
from Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits to
the United States were held to be American citizens by the German
occupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity of
about three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates of
South American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).
As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp in
southern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jews
from Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by the
German authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report,
"Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leave
Hungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the Horthy
Government in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the Soviet
Union) with a government more dependent on German authority, the
emigration of Jews continued.
The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the United
States "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews from
Hungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a message
stating that "The Government of the United States ... now specifically
repeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for the
care of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed to
leave" (Vol. I, p . 649).
Biedermann agreed that in the nineteen instances that "Did Six Million
Really Die?" quoted from the Report of the International Committee of
the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War and Inter
Arma Caritas (this includes the above material), it did so accurately.
A quote from Charles Biedermann (a delegate of the International
Committee of the Red Cross and Director of the Red Cross'
International Tracing Service) under oath at the Z�ndel Trial
(February 9, 10, 11 and 12, 1988).
Let me here commit the new blasphemy while it is still legal. What we know
as the "holocaust" is largely war-time propaganda. Propaganda that, unlike
most war-time propaganda, was not quietly forgotten. Instead it has
continued; grown more fantastic, more hateful, and more dangerous to
question every year since 1945.
The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died in
German work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.
Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hunger
caused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of her
infrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realize
that the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942
until the end of the war. That office never reported or recorded any
atrocities (Several years ago international Jewry forced the Red Cross to
apologize to the Jews - apologize for not seeing something that never
happened.)
Winston Churchill wrote a five volume history of World War II and never
mentioned the holocaust. He never mentioned it because he knew that the
holocaust was just wartime propaganda and he did not want to sully what he
hoped would be the definitive history of the war with propaganda that common
sense alone could refute. I could go on but the evidence I speak of is
available to The Jubilee readers from many patriotic sources even though it
is still widely censored by America's media and libraries.
"JimMcCarthy" <JimMc...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in message
news:vijtv21ngsutc83g5...@4ax.com...
1 On 10 Feb 2007 12:14:16 -0800, in alt.revisionism "thedarkman"
> <A_B...@ABaron.Demon.Co.UK> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't pay much attention to the nutter who appeared on Oprah; I
> remember that, it caused eruptions at the time. So what do we have
> here then? A Jewish academic who admits that hey, maybe Jews had their
> bad guys too, maybe they had their share of bloodthirsty, superstious
> bigots. Like I said before, this really is no big deal for me, but
> watch the shabbez goyim like Mock scream, watch the ADL shriek. Don't
> these people make you wanna laugh?
>
>
> http://www.honestmediatoday.com/professor_admits_jewish_ritual_murder.htm
> http://www.usajewish.com/downloads/vicki-devil-worship.wmv
2
>
> Jewish Professor Admits Jewish Cult Engaged in Past Jewish Ritual
> Murders
>
> According to a recent report by the newspaper "The Guardian," Jewish
> Prof. Ariel Toaff, who is a professor at Bar-Ilan University in Israel
> of Medieval Jewish history but is currently a visiting professor in
> Italy, has written a book,"Pasque di Sangue" (Easter of Blood), which
> describes Jewish ritual murder rites of Jews in the past.
>
> Some details of the book were published in the paper "Corriere Della
> Sera," which also has an online section describing the book.
>
> Prof. Toaff's book reportedly "describes the mutilation and
> crucifixion of a two-year-old boy to recreate Christ's execution at
> Pesach, the Jewish Easter. The festival marks the fleeing of the Jews
> from Egypt and Prof Toaff says Christian blood was used for 'magic and
> therapeutic practices,'" noted the Guardian. Further describing the
> bizarre and hateful customs of Jewish extremists, Prof. Toaff noted
> that Jewish occultists would sometimes mix blood in their matzo balls,
> which was eaten during their religious rites.
>
> He also describes many children who were reportedly crucified on the
> cross.
>
> Unsurprisingly, many Jewish supremacists quickly denied Prof. Toaff's
> accurate findings in an attempt to hide their ancient, bizarre, and
> frightening customs from the general public.
>
> However, Prof. Toaff was hardly the first to acknowledge such crimes
> in recent times. Indeed, in more recent times, a Jewish lady had
> appeared on the Oprah Winfrey show several years ago and described how
> some of her relatives had engaged in similar crimes. The honest and
> brave Jewish lady, Vicki Polin (who used the pseudonym of "Rachel" on
> the Oprah Winfrey show to avoid reprisals), told of how her family had
> engaged in some extremely bizarre Satanic Jewish kabbalistic rites,
> including that of infanticide (video of Oprah's interview with Polin).
>
> In the interview, Oprah asked the young woman, who undoubtedly had
> been traumatized by the ordeal, about what exactly had occurred. Oprah
> opened the discussion, telling of how the poor girl had grown up in a
> family that "participated in human sacrifice," undoubtedly causing
> emotional scars that may never heal.
>
> Here is part of the interview:
>
> OPRAH: ...You come from generations of ritualistic abuse?
>
> POLIN: Yes, my family has an extensive family tree, and they keep
> track of who's been involved and who hasn't been involved, and it's
> gone back to like 1700.
>
> OPRAH: And so you were ritually abused.
>
> POLIN: Right. I was born into a family that believes in this.
>
> OPRAH: Does everyone else think it's a nice Jewish family? From the
> outside, you appear to be a nice Jewish girl?
>
> POLIN: Definitely.
>
> OPRAH: And you all are worshipping the devil inside the home?
>
> POLIN: Right. There's other Jewish families across the country. It's
> not just my own family.
>
> OPRAH: Really? And so who knows about it? Lots of people now.
>
> POLIN: Well, I talked to a police detective in the Chicago area, and
> several of my friends know, and I've spoke publicly before, and...
>
> OPRAH: So when you were brought up in this kind of evilness, did you
> just think it was normal?
>
> RACHEL: I blocked out a lot of the memories I had because of my
> multiple personality disorder, but, yes. I mean, it's like if you grow
> up with something, you think it's normal. I always thought
> something...
>
> OPRAH: So what kinds of things? You don't have to give us the gory
> details, but what kinds of things went on in the family?
>
> POLIN: Well, there would be rituals in which babies would be
> sacrificed, and you would have to, you know...
>
> [end of Oprah excerpt]
>
> You can read more about Polin's ordeal at the website Lukeford.net,
> which also describes many exchanges from Jews about this whole ordeal.
> No doubt, it has caused a big scandal among them, with one of their
> own reportedly acknowledging such grisly crimes.
>
>
> Polin is now the CEO of the Awareness Center, which honorably works to
> prevent ritual abuse and other acts of child cruelty.
>
> In more recent times, the book "Blood Ritual" by Philip DeVier and the
> DVD "Jewish Ritual Murder Revisited: The Hidden Cult Revealed," the
> latter having an interview with noted scholar Dr. Harrell Rhome and
> also being found online in streamable format, have also covered this
> wicked crime committed by Jewish extremists (video).
>
> There is no reason to believe that all Jews commit ritualistic
> infanticide. However, there appears to be too much evidence to neglect
> such crimes altogether in the past. If committed today, it is mostly
> occurring in Israel, where Jewish occults and extremists remain
> rampant, and possibly occurring elsewhere in small numbers, often
> attributed as Satanic acts.
>
"muto2100" <mani...@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:1173545105.5...@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Montreal Gazette Says 'Jew Gassed Six Times, And Lived'
>
> Moshe Peer Gets Recognized By State Of Israel
>
> Just How Dumb Are We?
>
> The fact that a major Canadian newspaper prints this absurd story (11
> yr old kid gassed six times and survives) is just too much. This same
> paper, called for imprisoning an Indian who said he refused to believe
> Moishe.
>
> The Story
>
> Nine yr old Moishe is arrested, and sent to Bergen-Belsen, with his
> family. His mother is gassed and died, but Moshe was gassed six times,
> and lived. Each time he survived, he watched with horror as many of
> the women and children gassed with him. collapsed and died. To this
> day, Peer doesn't know how he was able to survive. "Maybe children
> resist better, I don't know," he said in an interview last week.
>
> Moshe Is Now A Speaker
>
> He tours Canada talking to children, telling them of the horrors of
> the death camps.
>
> Beatings And Cannibalism
>
> Moshe tells stories of how people would faint at morning roll call,
> and Germans would kill them for fainting. He also witnesses Russian
> soldiers barbecuing each other out of starvation. Peer and his
> siblings, all survived, along with their father. The family moved to
> Israel. Peer's four children were born in Israel, and after serving in
> the Israeli army in a number of wars, Peer moved to Montreal in 1974.
>
> Still Has Nightmares
>
> Moshe is often awaken with nightmares, he blames the world for
> standing by as 6,000,000 Jews were gassed.
>
> Moshe Writes A Book
>
> Click to enlarge
>
> Moshe tells of being gassed six times and living. Who in their right
> mind would publish this trash?
>
> An Indian Chief Is Punished For Doubting
>
> Chief David Ahenakew was a Korean a veteran. He was elected as the
> head of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations. During a speech
> he said he didn't believe in the holocaust, and subsequently charged
> with a 'Hate Crime'.
>
> Where Is The Sanity?
>
> A 15 yr Canadian army veteran, who served in Korea, Egypt, and
> elsewhere was tried, convicted, and fined $1000. He was threatened
> with jail if he wouldn't apologize.
Prince Andy
>> In article <49d7...@news.x-privat.org>,
>> ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
>>
>>> m-weber escribió:
>>
>>>> Now, do try to concentrate, and tell us what happened to 437,000
>>>> Hungarian
>>>> Jews deported to Auschwitz in the summer of 1944, as proved e.g. by
>>>> Veesenmayer's reports.
>>
>>> 1. That number is challenged
>>
>> No it's not.
>
> Well, go back to school moron.
>
> Just one "alternative" with 117,000 "gassed" less on "your number".
AND THERE WE GO, WHICH STORY DOYOU PREFER? OR WOULD YOU LIKE THE FACTS? THAT
WOULD BE THE GERMAN RECORDS VOLUMINOUS AND NO MENTION OF THE POLICIES AND
ACTIONS THE JEWS ie JEWS ONLY CLAIM. OTHER THAN A FEW WELL PAID STOOGES. AND
OF COURSE SCHINDLER WITH HIS OBEDIENT HAREM AND INTELLIGENT MONEY MAKING
STANCE AT THE END OF THE WAR.
http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=293321480
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
The Wiesenthal Record
Documents sur l'activité du CICR en faveur des civils détenus dans les
camps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and
Inter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War
(Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet,
explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in the
tradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, and
herein lies its great value.
The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention in
order to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and Western
Europe by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable to
gain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify the
Convention. The millions of civilian and military internees held in
the USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, were
completely cut off from any international contact or supervision.
The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies the
legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in
concentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the two
categories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the second
type as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German,
"Schutzhäftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motives
because their presence was considered a danger to the State or the
occupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues,
"were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisoned
under common law for security reasons." (P.74).
The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permit
supervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating to
security, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained important
concessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute food
parcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and
"from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all other
camps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78). The ICRC soon established
contact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programme
which continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters of
thanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.
Red Cross Recipients Were Jews
The Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily.
From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with a
total weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps"
(Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing and
pharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald,
Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg,
Landsberg-am-Lech, Flöha, Ravensbrück, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen,
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21878.htm
Israeli warlord vows face-off with Iran:
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=84344§ionid=351020104
Keep in mind that the 'A Clean Break' (war for Israel) agenda was
written for Netanyahu (access the 'A Clean Break' link at the upper
right of http://NEOCONZIONISTTHREAT.COM).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62haUNwYIRk
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
A look at these healthy happy jews will make you wonder just a little more
about the hardship claims.
http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/letters/2003oct_nbr01.htm
This is a contribution to your inquiry about the label: "holocaust-denial".
First of all there was NO holocaust, other than those taking place in every
country that is at war.
The incarceration of "enemies of the state" is a world-wide practice. The
primary question here is; what constitutes a holocaust? Camps, depravation,
imprisonment, harsh treatment, executions, hunger etc.?
Those conditions exist in all camps, in all nations, under all regimes.
Remember Andersonville, Manzanar, the Gulags, the British camps in Africa,
the American death-camps in Germany, they all constitute a "holocaust" if
viewed through the lenses of Jewish "holocaust-sufferers".
Read the Red Cross reports. Go to the Red Cross museum, headquarters
in your city and pick up the records. Anyway theres a few independent
witnesses.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html
There are other indications as well that the theory of mass destruction of
the Hungarian Jews is incorrect: the witnesses to this destruction
unanimously claim that during these alleged mass exterminations the limited
capacity of the Birkenau crematoria necessitated the excavation of enormous
pits, in which the bodies were burned. Dark clouds of smoke, they claim,
darkened the sky over Birkenau during this procedure. Fortunately (or
unfortunately, depending on one’s perspective) the aerial reconnaissance
photographs taken by the Allies during this time prove that in the Birkenau
camp, which was not obscured by clouds of smoke when the pictures were
taken, there were neither open fires, nor giant pits, nor smoke activity on
any scale large or small, nor piles of dead bodies, nor great supplies of
firewood, nor anything else of the sort.[45] The Polish Historical Society
concludes that in light of this evidence the number of victims in Auschwitz
must be reduced by another 400,000 plus 74,000 (Polish Jews from the
liquidated ghetto Lodz, who are also claimed to have been gassed around this
time), leaving some 500,000 victims for Auschwitz.[46]
Even allegedly probative documents of the Nuremberg Tribunal cannot change
this, since such documents are by no means always genuine, or true, and only
ever provide evidence for deportations which are not disputed here in the
first place - they never document an extermination. The reader is reminded
of the example of Dachau, the concentration camp where the IMT alleged that
hundreds of thousands were gassed, a claim which in the end turned out to be
nothing more substantial than an atrocity propaganda lie.[47] We shall come
across another case of dubious IMT documents in the discussion of the Soviet
Union.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
http://www.wakeupfro
myourslumber.com/node/5406
Jews will once again subject Robert Faurisson (aged 78) to a trial for
“holocaust denial.” The French judicial police served Faurisson a summons
demanding that he appear in court this Thursday (24 Jan 08). Faurisson is
charged with attending the December 11, 2006 conference in Iran titled,
“Review of the Holocaust: Global Vision.”
This will be the fifteenth time that Jews have hauled Faurisson into court.
Jews have already frozen his bank account, while court officials have
repeatedly visited his home, threatening him and his wife with seizure of
their furniture to pay for financial "damages" caused by his “heretical”
remarks.
Faurisson is arguably the most thorough of all examiners of the holo-hoax.
Ernst Zündel, Gemar Rudolph and others are in prison, but Jews consider
Faurisson enemy #1, because of the meticulousness of his work. And since the
holo-hoax cannot be defended with reason and science, Jews use oppressive
laws and prison sentences to protect it from rational criticism. In many
cases they use extreme violence, as you will see later in this post.
Fortunately the Goyim are too cowardly to resist Jewish terrorism.
At the Iran conference, Faurisson said that for the past 32 years, he has
been waiting for someone to show him one of the chambers where Jews where
supposedly gassed during the holo-hoax.
In July 2006, a Paris court convicted Faurisson of “holocaust denial”
because of remarks made by Faurisson on the Sahar 1 Iranian satellite
channel in February 2005. Faurisson was given a three-month suspended prison
term, and was also fined 7,500 euros.
The former Prime Minister of France, Dominique de Villepin, said, "We [the
French people] are in a democracy. Everyone has the right to express his
views freely.”
Therefore all defamatory remarks against Muslims or Islam are protected as
“free speech.”
However, any questioning of the holo-hoax or Jewish atrocities is illegal.
The Gayssot Act of 1990 – initiated by President Jaques Chirac -- prohibits
any questioning or examination of the holo-hoax.
Faurisson’s specialty is examining documents and manuscripts. In 1991 he was
fired from his university post for questioning the holo-hoax. He was charged
with violating the Gayssot Act, (Loi Gayssot) passed on 13 July 1990 that
makes it illegal in France to question the holo-hoax. The law was proposed
by the communist deputy Jean-Claude Gayssot, and is one of several European
laws that make it illegal to examine the holo-hoax.
Its first article states that "any discrimination founded on the membership
or non-membership to an ethnic group, a nation, a race or a religion is
prohibited."
Discrimination against Muslims, of course, is permissible.
When Faurisson was terminated at the university, he appealed to the ICCPRHRC
(International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and Human Rights
Committee). This is a UN group that polices literature for any questioning
of the holo-hoax. (It is not to be confused with the more high-profile
Commission on Human Rights, a Charter-based mechanism, or its replacement,
the Human Rights Council, which of course is controlled by Jews.)
http://www.von-waldenburg.com/reviews.html
A person who lived in Germany during the war.
http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JNX3
Frederich Born leader of the ICRC in Hungary and honored by the jews.
Of course that strengthens the credibility of the Yad Vashem and who can
say anything about a man being honored and who probably deserved the hnor.
Most of their purchases of
relief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.
Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews
avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued
throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.
But they were living in the best part of Europe as far as food was
concerned. And the terrible reflects the difficulties of keeping people in
camps and all the terribles do not describe genocide, or even conditions as
bad as Israel today.
And the fact that some leaders might have stretched the truth about what
they thought Hitler said or thought about killing of jews, there is no proof
of genocide as a policy and no treatment as there is in Israel today. Of
attacking people with planes, helicopters, and tanks. As happens in Israel
on a daily basis.
The Toben case today:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/17/germany-australia
"Johnny Asia" <bardi...@mypacks.net> wrote in message
news:o_mdnWiesd-_YMrU...@earthlink.com...
>
> Among the fooled, at least the partially fooled, was Berenbaum, former
> director of the United States Holocaust Research Institute at the U.S.
> Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. Berenbaum had been asked to read
> the manuscript by film producer Harris Salomon, who still plans an
> adaptation of the book.
>
> Berenbaum's tentative support - "Crazier things have happened," he told
> The
> Associated Press last fall - was cited by the publisher as it initially
> defended the book. Berenbaum now says he saw factual errors, including
> Rosenblat's description of Theresienstadt, the camp from which he was
> eventually liberated, but didn't think of challenging the love story.
>
> "There's a limit to what I can verify, because I was not there," he says.
> "I
> can verify the general historical narrative, but in my research I rely
> upon
> the survivors to present the specifics of their existence with integrity.
> When they don't, they destroy so much and they ruin so much, and that's
> terrible."
>
> "I was burned," he added. "And I have to read books more skeptically
> because
> I was burned."
>
>
>
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/ap_on_en_ot/books_holocaust_memoir_10
>
>
> Anger, sadness over fabricated Holocaust story
>
>
> By HILLEL ITALIE, AP National Writer - Sun Dec 28, 1:09 pm ET
>
>
> NEW YORK - It's the latest story that touched, and betrayed, the world.
>
> "Herman Rosenblat and his wife are the most gentle, loving, beautiful
> people," literary agent Andrea Hurst said Sunday, anguishing over why she,
> and so many others, were taken by Rosenblat's story of love born on
> opposite
> sides of a barbed-wire fence at a concentration camp.
>
> "I question why I never questioned it. I believed it; it was an
> incredible,
> hope-filled story."
>
> On Saturday, Berkley Books canceled Rosenblat's memoir, "Angel at the
> Fence." Rosenblat acknowledged that he and his wife did not meet, as they
> had said for years, at a sub-camp of Buchenwald, where she allegedly
> sneaked
> him apples and bread. The book was supposed to come out in February.
>
> Rosenblat, 79, has been married to the former Roma Radzicky for 50 years,
> since meeting her on a blind date in New York. In a statement issued
> Saturday through his agent, he described himself as an advocate of love
> and
> tolerance who falsified his past to better spread his message.
>
> "I wanted to bring happiness to people," said Rosenblat, who now lives in
> the Miami area. "I brought hope to a lot of people. My motivation was to
> make good in this world."
>
> Rosenblat's believers included not only his agent and his publisher, but
> Oprah Winfrey, film producers, journalists, family members and strangers
> who
> ignored, or didn't know about, the warnings from scholars that his story
> didn't make sense.
>
> Other Holocaust memoirists have devised greater fantasies. Misha
> Defonseca,
> author of "Misha: A Memoire of the Holocaust Years," pretended she was a
> Jewish girl who lived with wolves during the war, when she was actually a
> non-Jew who lived, without wolves, in Belgium.
>
> Historical records prove Rosenblat was indeed at Buchenwald and other
> camps.
>
> "How sad that he felt he had to embellish a life of surviving the
> Holocaust
> and of being married for half a century," said Holocaust scholar Michael
> Berenbaum.
>
> The damage is broad. Publishing, the most trusting of industries, has
> again
> been burned by a memoir that fact-checking might have prevented. Berkley
> is
> an imprint of Penguin Group (USA), which in March pulled Margaret B.
> Jones'
> "Love and Consequences" after the author acknowledged she had invented her
> story of gang life in Los Angeles. Winfrey fell, as she did with James
> Frey,
> for a narrative of suffering and redemption better suited for television
> than for history.
>
> The damage is deep. Scholars and other skeptics as well as fellow
> survivors
> fear that Rosenblat's fabrications will only encourage doubts about the
> Holocaust.
>
> "I am very worried because many of us speak to thousands of student each
> year," says Sidney Finkel, a longtime friend of Rosenblat's and a fellow
> survivor. "We go before audiences. We tell them a story and now some
> people
> will question what I experienced."
>
>
>
>
> --
> +
>
> Pucker your lips for the Apocalypse!
>
> Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
>
> http://music.download.com/johnnyasia
>
> http://johnnyasia.net
>
> "If you want to know what the future of
> music sounds like..listen to Johnny Asia,
> then you'll know!" - Jazz Guitarist Dom Minasi
>
> +
>
>
And at the bottom see the person who profited from lies and is behind the
false story that is used to put our truth seeking teachers in jail.
These teachers are no more than the plumber Joe's of the acadenic world
being illtreated because of part of out population who want to support the
lies because of the huge incomes derived from these lies.
These sites below show up the huge lies and why.
Libraries, brothels, swimming??IN AUSWICHTZ???
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901#0h53m09s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dyBMuSYLGk
Next we have the German records where no mention of killing of jews has been
found.In fact the documents like this month disprove the huge distortions
and exaggerations made by the jewish contingent.
And as in the country today the numbers actually involved considering that
millions fought with and served Germany against what was jews against their
country of residence.
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/history/zionism/news.php?q=1196891581
http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=888061
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/1966
http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/130513
http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/section_second_world_war?OpenDocumenthttp://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/68zeb2?opendocumenthttp://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/6ayg86Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activitiesduring the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.You will find thousands of jewish funded museums amd so calleduniversitiesthat supposedly have evidence , also the reports themselves havebeen contaminated by jewish academics and supporters continual injectionsthat the Red Cross did not see.The Red Cross is not political or historical so keptrecords of it’s actions,and if astrocities occurred they recorded them just as they do today.And the only evidence offered by holocaust supporters is the usual suspectexaggerations from reparation seeking jews castigated by honest honest jewsfor this horrible use of what suffering there was during this period.Despite the suffering of the jews it was not as much as Europeans as a wholesuffered with over 5 million imprisoned, a much hight number than the realnumber of jews . And free for anyone to investigate without fear ofimprisonment.Not to mention the disrupted lives of Europeans when their homes and townsbecame the battlefields of WW2.To emphasize the determined efforts of the jews to stay in the limelight bypushing all other victims to the back while they bask in the limelight , ina lot of cases undeservedly so. http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Crosses/Crosses.htmlAs an example the Polish who is the one country who had more (3 million –figures you can examine without fear of harassment) wanted to put up crossesfor victims , who were in there mostly for helping and supporting jews inPoland. Were castigated and criticised by jewish groups claiming theremembrances should only be for their victims, and not be over shadowed byChristian victims.http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Crosses/Crosses.htmlhttp://www.holocaustforgotten.com/poland.htmhttp://www.holocaustforgotten.com/All that comes out clearly, whatever the reason that the jews were held incamps, there was great co operation by the jews themselves, this forced themto find excuses for their behavior, and easiest was lying about thecruelties of the Germans that caused this co operation. Rather falls downwhen there is no gassing and if camps were simply holding camps.As their own leaders said.The Jewish ghetto police always had the option, she said, of "throwing offtheir uniforms and joining the rest of us" - a point that Yitzak Zuckerman,a leader of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, made in his memoir.http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=2139There is not a shred of evidence, for example, that "a gas chamber was in the process of being built at Dachau, but it was never completed." (See "The Second Leuchter Report" by American gas chamber expert Fred Leuchter in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1990.) There is likewise no proof that "mentally and physically handicapped people were killed" by gas at any of the four "institutions" Wiesenthal mentions. This US Army photo was taken at Dachau on April 30, 1945, one day after the camp's capture. It shows a GI standing in front of a door marked with a skull and crossbones and the words "Caution! Gas! Life danger! Do not open!" According to the official caption, "these chambers were used by Nazi guards for killing prisoners of the infamous Dachau concentration camp." In fact, this is a small disinfection gas chamber used for delousing clothes. It was never used to kill people. For several decades, this photo has been widely reproduced to help keep alive the notorious Dachau "gas chamber" myth. (US Army photo SC 206194.)Besides the condensation below you can exam the various reviews of the REDCROSS covering WW2 during the time of the jews claimed astrocities commitedby the Germans.Inmates ReleasedMore than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. Inaddition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences werereleased, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz hadactually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans havereleased inmates who "knew" what was happening there?Himmler Orders Death Rate Reducedhttp://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/21.htmlhttp://www.outlawjournalism.com/news/?p=5803http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htmhttp://www.777healthproducts.com/07g.htmhttp://www.intellnet.org/resources/resistance/holocaust/04.htm http://www.icrc.ch/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList418/359CC4EF8A1E5C72C1256B66005B2171A little hard to obtain a report that is not heavily influenced by jewishpressure to includE holocaust AS THEY WOULD LIKE ALL TO SEE IT..So you will notice that holocaust is not denied just a quiet it was badetc.THE JEWS AND THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS:A FACTUAL APPRAISAL BY THE RED CROSS.There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe during World WarTwo and the conditions of Germany's concentration camps which isalmost unique in its honesty and objectivity, the three-volume Reportof the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activitiesduring the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral sourceincorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works:Documents sur l'activité du CICR en faveur des civils détenus dans lescamps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), andInter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War(Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet,explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in thetradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, andherein lies its great value.The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention inorder to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and WesternEurope by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable togain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify theConvention. The millions of civilian and military internees held inthe USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, werecompletely cut off from any international contact or supervision.The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies thelegitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained inconcentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the twocategories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the secondtype as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German,"Schutzhäftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motivesbecause their presence was considered a danger to the State or theoccupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues,"were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisonedunder common law for security reasons." (P.74).The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permitsupervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating tosecurity, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained importantconcessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute foodparcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and"from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all othercamps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78). The ICRC soon establishedcontact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programmewhich continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters ofthanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.Red Cross Recipients Were JewsThe Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily.From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with atotal weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps"(Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing andpharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald,Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg,Landsberg-am-Lech, Flöha, Ravensbrück, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen,Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and inCentral and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians,Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews"(Vol. III, p. 83).In the course of the war, "The Committee was in a position to transferand distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty millionSwiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organisations throughout theworld, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee ofNew York" (Vol. I, p. 644). This latter organisation was permitted bythe German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the Americanentry into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vastrelief operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans butfrom the tight Allied blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases ofrelief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which prevailedat Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in April1945. This camp, "where there were about 40,000 Jews deported fromvarious countries was a relatively privileged ghetto" (Vol. III, p.75). According to the Report, "'The Committee's delegates were able tovisit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusivelyfor Jews and was governed by special conditions. From informationgathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experimentby certain leaders of the Reich ... These men wished to give the Jewsthe means of setting up a communal life in a town under their ownadministration and possessing almost complete autonomy. . . twodelegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. Theyconfirmed the favourable impression gained on the first visit" (Vol.I, p . 642).The ICRC also had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of FascistRumania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to183,000 Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation. The aidthen ceased, and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded"in sending anything whatsoever to Russia" (Vol. II, p. 62). The samesituation applied to many of the German camps after their "liberation"by the Russians. The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail fromAuschwitz until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of theinternees were evacuated westward. But the efforts of the Red Cross tosend relief to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet controlwere futile. However, food parcels continued to be sent to formerAuschwitz inmates transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald andOranienburg.No Evidence Of GenocideOne of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that itclarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred inthe camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaoticcondition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of thewar, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimedan increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, theGerman Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ...In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC andGeneral of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results.Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegatewas authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the diresituation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicitin stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Alliedbombing of German transportation, and in the interests of internedJews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarousaerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impendingcollapse of the German transportation system, declaring thatstarvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becominginevitable.In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it isimportant to stress that the delegates of the International Red Crossfound no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of adeliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages theReport does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admitsthat Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours andprivations, but its complete silence on the subject of plannedextermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like theVatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross founditself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocidewhich had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortalityrate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewishdoctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the easternfront, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) - Incidentally, it isfrequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gaschambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Reportmakes nonsense of this allegation. "Not only the washing places, butinstallations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by thedelegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made lessprimitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).Not All Were InternedVolume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish CivilianPopulation) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of thefree population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by nomeans all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, butremained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the freecivilian population. This conflicts directly with the "thoroughness"of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in theforged Höss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "everysingle Jew he could lay his hands on."In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wislicenywas in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of theJewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certainperiods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge forJews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained inSlovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end ofAugust 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. Whileit is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about theinternment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in campswhere the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where theinternees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to thoseof the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jewsavoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continuedthroughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupiedterritories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of thePolish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jewsfrom Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits tothe United States were held to be American citizens by the Germanoccupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity ofabout three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates ofSouth American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp insouthern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jewsfrom Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by theGerman authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report,"Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leaveHungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the HorthyGovernment in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the SovietUnion) with a government more dependent on German authority, theemigration of Jews continued.The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the UnitedStates "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews fromHungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a messagestating that "The Government of the United States ... now specificallyrepeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for thecare of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed toleave" (Vol. I, p . 649).Biedermann agreed that in the nineteen instances that "Did Six MillionReally Die?" quoted from the Report of the International Committee ofthe Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War and InterArma Caritas (this includes the above material), it did so accurately.A quote from Charles Biedermann (a delegate of the InternationalCommittee of the Red Cross and Director of the Red Cross'International Tracing Service) under oath at the Zündel Trial(February 9, 10, 11 and 12, 1988).http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2735http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/14645862&referer=brief_results ACTUALLY -- AND CONTRARY TO HIS HIGHLY FLATTERING PUBLIC IMAGE -- THE RENOWNED "NAZI HUNTER" HAS A WELL-DOCUMENTED BUT LITTLE-KNOWN RECORD OF DECEIT, MENDACITY AND PREVARICATION. SOME HIGHLIGHTS: Wiesenthal repeatedly lied about his alleged role in locating Adolf Eichmann, was consistently wrong about Josef Mengele, and falsely accused Polish-American Frank Walus of having murdered Jews in Poland as a Gestapo official. Wiesenthal has absurdly charged that the Germans exterminated Jews in "electrocution chambers," and that they manufactured bars of soap from the bodies of murdered Jews. His deception about his own wartime activities prompted Austrian Chancellor Bruno Kreisky (himself of Jewish ancestry) to accuse the "Nazi hunter" of having collaborated with his wartime oppressors. (For details about Wiesenthal's record, see: M. Weber, "Simon Wiesenthal: Bogus Nazi Hunter," The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1989-90.) THE CANADIAN JEWISH NEWS, Jan. 30, 1992 Wannsee's importance rejected London (JTA) - An Israeli Holocaust scholar has debunked the Wannsee Conference, at which top Nazi officials are said to have gathered at a villa in a Berlin suburb in 1942 to draw the blueprints of the "Final Solution." According to Prof. Yehuda Bauer (photo) of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Wannsee was a meeting, "but hardly a conference", and "little of what was said there was executed in detail." "The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at." "I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert, nor have I written books about what is now called the Holocaust." "I have done my best to prepare the case that follows, but I respectfully submit that I do not have any duty to become an expert on the Holocaust, my Lord." "I have never claimed to be a Holocaust historian. As I have said, I have no written no book about the Holocaust. I have written no article about it. If I have spoken about it, it is usually because somebody has asked me a question, I have been questioned about it. On such occasions I have emphasised my lack of expertise and I have expatiated only upon those areas with which I am familiar." http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day002.htm: "Now, you heard me say in my opening statement, Mr Rampton, that I am not an expert on the Holocaust. What I would now say would be a figure without any value whatsoever." "Q. [Rampton] What you do you say about Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzec and Chelmno?" "A. [Irving] Nothing at all. I am not an expert." RJ.Winston Churchill wrote a five volume history of World War II and nevermentioned the holocaust. He never mentioned it because he knew that theholocaust was just wartime propaganda and he did not want to sully what hehoped would be the definitive history of the war with propaganda that commonsense alone could refute. I could go on but the evidence I speak of isavailable to The Jubilee readers from many patriotic sources even though itis still widely censored by America's media and libraries.I once considered the battle over the holocaust as a great political trumpcard allowing us to take back the moral high ground on the censorship issuefrom the left. But I see now that it is much more important than that. Theholocaust is qualitatively different than the silly lies nations tell theircitizens to get them so fired up they will send their children to die inforeign wars. The holocaust is not pre-war propaganda. It is post-warpropaganda.Why do we need post World War II propaganda? Because World War II was thegreatest human catastrophe in two thousand years for the Aryan peoples andwe "gentiles" must not be allowed to see the truth. It was more than theslaughter of our racial kinsmen and the destruction of our racial homeland.World War II was the most significant crossroads the Christian nations havefaced since Herman faced the legions of Rome in the forests of Teutonberg2,000 years ago. But Herman won the battle of Teutonberg Wald. The Christianworld lost World War II. We lost because we came to a crossroads and wentthe wrong way.http://www.nafcash.com/Lest you think there must be some truth to the alleged Treblinka holocaust NAFCASH TM is offering a $250,000.00 REWARD For locating JUST ONE of the alleged "HUGE MASS GRAVES" of Treblinka NAFCASH TM presents THE TREBLINKA CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION CHALLENGE TM You must scientifically - forensically prove the grave's EXACT location,its EXACT dimensions and its EXACT volumetric density. The cremated remains must total AT LEAST one percent of the alleged massmurder. JUST ONE MASS GRAVE! - JUST ONE PERCENT!http://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/6973 HOW TO KEEP ACADEMICS QUIET The Real Issue Is Israel's Human Rights Record: A statement by Norman G. Finkelstein upon publication of Beyond Chutzpah Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard University is currently best known for his advocacy of the "most excruciating" torture against terrorist suspects such as a "needle being shoved under the fingernails." The alleged purpose of this torture is to extract a truthful confession but its real consequence, as human rights organizations have pointed out, is to produce whatever statements are necessary to end the suffering.For 15 months Dershowitz has applied a variant of this truth-seeking technique -- less physically painful but no less excruciating -- to prospective publishers of Beyond Chutzpah, which offers a critical examination of Israel's human rights record and Dershowitz's defense of it. Enlisting one of the most powerful law firms in the country after his personal initiatives proved unsuccessful, Dershowitz has repeatedly threatened to bankrupt highly respected publishers with litigation if they didn't cancel publication of my book. He could then proclaim that the cancellation confirmed the "truth" that Beyond Chutzpah didn't meet scholarly standards. Dershowitz justified these blackmail tactics on the ground that Beyond Chutzpah libels him. Yet, when I first began to expose his gross scholarly misconduct, Dershowitz publicly declared at UCLA (on 21 October 2003) that he wouldn't respond with a libel action because he believed "so strongly in the First Amendment and full freedom of speech." Ironically, just as he was threatening my publishers with expensive and time-consuming lawsuits, Dershowitz denounced Holocaust denier David Irving, who had sued Deborah Lipstadt for libel, with these words: "Before Irving lost his case [against Lipstadt], several publishers had refused to issue books critical of Irving, out of fear of his bringing expensive and time-consuming lawsuits. That was a chilling of free speech" (Afterword to Lipstadt's History on Trial; his emphasis). My publisher, University of California Press, was understandably at great pains to fend off a potential lawsuit by Dershowitz; for an academic publisher the associated costs would have been ruinous, to the point of making certain victory meaningless. On occasion our relationship became strained and at one point it appeared as if we had reached an impasse. However, through the skillful mediation of Nation magazine senior editor Roane Carey (who was the freelance editor of Beyond Chutzpah) and others, a satisfactory compromise was reached that protected the interests of both publisher and author, and, most importantly, preserved the integrity of the book. I would like personally to extend my heartfelt thanks to all who supported me and the press during this difficult period."Another Frenchman, Paul Rassinier, a pre-war communist and later asocialist, had been a member of the French Resistance. He was arrested andinterned in concentration camps, among them Buchenwald. In 1948 he publisheda book Crossing the Line, in which he argued that people might have beenkilled in concentration camps, but that the perpetrators had acted on theirown, not on orders from headquarters.AS WITH ABU GRAIB."The saving of the Jews in Europe did not figure at the head of the list ofpriorities of the ruling class. It was the foundation of the State which wasprimordial in their eyes."http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/books/miscelleneous/the-founding-myths-of-israeli-politics/part3.htm "The masses of Jews from Hungary's ghettos obediently boarded thedeportation trains without knowing their fate. They were full of confidence in the false information that they were being transferred toKenyermeze. The Nazis could not have misled the masses of Jews so conclusively hadthey not spread their false information through Jewish channels. The Jews of the ghettos would not have trusted the Nazi or Hungarianrulers. But they had trust in their Jewish leaders. Eichmann and othersused this known fact as part of their calculated plan to mislead the Jews. They were able to deport the Jews to their extermination by the help ofJewish leaders. The false information was spread by the Jewish leaders. The local leadersof the Jews of Kluj and Nodvarod knew that other leaders were spreadingsuch false information and did not protest. Those of the Jews who tried to warn their friends of the truth werepersecuted by the Jewish leaders in charge of the local 'rescue work'.The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died inGerman work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hungercaused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of herinfrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realizethat the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942 untilthe end of the war. That office never reported or recorded any atrocities (Several years agointernational Jewry forced the Red Cross to apologize to the Jews -apologize for not seeing something that never happened.)Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situationas far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating thatfood supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of Germantransportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested onMarch 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (InterArma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the GermanForeign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportationsystem, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germanywere becoming inevitable.A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungaryin July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily.She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of "gaschambers" during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassingstories only later. [15]Inmates ReleasedMore than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. Inaddition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences werereleased, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz hadactually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans havereleased inmates who "knew" what was happening there?Himmler Orders Death Rate Reduced http://www.ifamericansknew.org/http://www.ussliberty.org/"Asgard" <asg...@home.net> wrote in messagenews:zZadnTJAIc9c0_DY...@giganews.com...Ø What a load of emotive old bollocks, bullshit and lies.>> The narrator states the inmates were "starving' at Bergen Belsen, yet the> vast majority of the inmates look positively fat and shiny.>> He goes on to say those dead, had died of starvation, yet earlier stated> they'd not eaten for only 6 days.>> The images of the dead showed mainly emaciated corpses, nothing like the> people still moving around. If they'd died of "starvation", why had the> vasst majority of the inmates not suffered the same fate. Why, indeed wasit> only the corpses which were emaciated.>> What I found particularly intersting, was significant incidence ofpetachiae> on the bodies of the dead. THIS IS A CLASSIC SIGN OF EPIDEMIC TYPHUS.>> The documentary was made in 2005, by a yid, and I note they're still usingthe mythical 4million figure for deaths at Auschsitz. Haven't corrected thescript. They also state, quite clearly, there were 6m jewish deaths incamps. No mention of the supposed Einzatzgroupen.>> The entire documentary is a farcical attempt heighten the victimhoodstatus of yids.>> Any of the experts like to comment? Keenan? You're an expert oneverything.> Gord, likewise. McFey? Got any answers chaps?>> I look forward to your attempts to shoot this one down.>Russian troops marched into Berlin on April 24, 1945, they found 800 Jewsalive and well in Berlin's Jewish hospital.http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/21/newsid_3560000/3560175.stm51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazishttp://www.wrmea.com/archives/Sept_2004/0409086.html"Topaz" <mars...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:pklr449roj8r6c7uf...@4ax.com...>> "The orthodox holocaust story can not possibly be defended with> rational arguments because its absurdity is overwhelming. We are asked> to believe in the fata morgana of a vast slaughter in killing> factories which left no traces whatsoever - no documents, no bones, no> teeth, no ashes - nothing! We are further asked to believe that the> Allies, who had a large network of informers all over Europe and a spy> in the German leadership (Admiral Canaris, the head of the German> intelligence), did not become aware of this gigantic genocide until> the end of the war, for if they had known about the mass murder, they> would have acted to stop it. Finally, we are asked to believe that the> Jews in Poland, the epicentre of the holocaust, did not know anything> about the Auschwitz gas chambers as late as in August 1944, otherwise> the Jews from the Lodz ghetto would not have gone to Auschwitz> voluntarily - which is precisely what they did, as related by Raul> Hilberg in his standard work about the holocaust (Die Vernichtung der> europaeischen Juden, p. 543/544).>> As the Zionist-controlled system of the "Western democracies" is> woefully unable to counter the revisionists with arguments, it resorts> to censorship and brute force in order to silence the dangerous> heretics. And the Jews are gradually transforming the holocaust into a> religion. This is a very clever strategy, for as Robert Faurisson> aptly remarks, one cannot refute a religion with scientific arguments.> Thus, the holocaust museums and holocaust monuments spreading like> mushrooms all over America and Europe are really temples of the new> religion, whereas professional "holocaust survivors" such as Elie> Wiesel are the priests of the new religion. To prove this assertion,> we only have to quote Wiesel himself: "The Holocaust is a holy> mystery, the secret of which is limited to the circle of the> priesthood of survivors" (Peter Novick, The Holocaust in American> Life, 1999, p. 211, 212, retranslated from the German). Another high> priest of the holocaust cult, Simon Wiesenthal, goes even further:> "When each of us comes before the Six Million, we will be asked what> we did with our lives... I will say: I did not forget you" (Simon> Wiesenthal in Response, Vol. 20, Nr. 1).>> No critical questions about the holocaust are allowed because they are> a blasphemy: They cause immense distress to the eternal victims of> persecution, the Jews, and are an attempt to whitewash National> Socialism - the most evil ideology of all times which made the> holocaust possible! In today's Germany, it is even considered> inadmissible to compare the holocaust with the atrocities of communist> tyrants such as Stalin or Cambodian dictator Pol Pot because this is> regarded as a "relativisation" and "trivialization" of the worst crime> in history.>> French Zionist propagandist Claude Lanzmann, the producer of a long> and unspeakably dull film about the holocaust (the title of this film> is Shoa, the Hebrew word for "catastrophe", which is often used by> Jews as a synonym for "holocaust") makes no effort to conceal that the> holocaust cult is to replace Christianity:>> "If Auschwitz is something other than a horror of history, then> Christianity totters in its foundations. Christ is the Son of God, who> went to the end of the humanely endurable, where he endured the> cruellest suffering. (...) If Auschwitz is true, then there is a human> suffering with which that of Christ simply cannot be compared. (...)> In this case, Christ is false, and salvation will not come from him.> (...) Auschwitz is the refutation of Christ." (Les temps modernes,> Paris, December 1993, p. 132, 133.)>> Nowadays, a large percentage of the Jews do not believe in God any> more, but virtually all of them believe in the Six Million. The> Zionist leadership cunningly exploits the holocaust to unite the> World's Jews by keeping them in a constant state of hysteria and> persecution mania, insinuating that only if the Jews stick together> will they be able to ban the threat of a new holocaust.>> It goes without saying that very few Non-Jews are willing to embrace> the murky holocaust religion. While the overwhelming majority of> people in the West still believe that the official holocaust version> is essentially true (even if they suspect that the figures might me> somewhat inflated), they are thoroughly fed up with the eternal> lamentation about Jewish victims and Jewish suffering. They simply> don't want to hear it any more. In Germany, opinion polls showed that> a vast majority of the population was against the planned holocaust> monument in Berlin (which not a single major party, not a single> leading politician and not a single big newspaper dared to oppose).> Privately, the politicians are probably as profoundly disgusted with> the endless holocaust litany as the rest of the population, but they> cannot possibly afford to let the revisionists win because this would> shatter the very foundations of the "democratic" system to which they> own their careers and their wealth...>> The ultimate weapon against Zionism and the state of Israel>> At the end of the year 2000, Israel is a besieged country, but from> the military point of view, it is still vastly superior to its> neighbours, and it enjoys the unconditional support of the United> States. Should any of the Islamic states grow strong enough to> seriously threaten Israel, it would most probably be attacked and> militarily annihilated by America. Russia is not likely to risk a> confrontation with the USA for the sake of the Palestinians. We can> certainly admire the bravery of the Palestinians resistance fighters> who are willing to sacrifice their lives to liberate their homeland> from the alien intruders, but realistically, they have no chance to> win. The Palestinians have stones and slings. The Israelis have> helicopters and tanks. You can't destroy helicopters and tanks with> stones and slings.>> When fighting one's enemy, one should always look for his weakest> spot. The weakest spot of Israel, its Achilles heel, is the holocaust> lie to which it owes its existence. The revisionists can give the> adversaries of Israel and international Zionism a terrible weapon. It> is quite true that many revisionists are by no means guided by> political considerations. Some of them - Carlo Mattogno is a good> example - are only motivated by intellectual curiosity: They want to> ascertain what really happened to the Jews during the Second World> War. But even if revisionism is not a political movement, its> political implications are tremendous. The revisionists are> endeavouring to find out the truth, and truth is the deadliest enemy> of Israel and international Jewry. Thus, the revisionists objectively> work against Israel and Zionism, even if subjectively their goals are> often purely scientific and devoid of any political ambition. This is,> of course, the reason why they are persecuted and their books burnt in> more and more countries.>> In view of the total Jewish media control and the ever-growing> anti-revisionist repression in many Western countries, it is very> difficult indeed to achieve a revisionist breakthrough. We> revisionists are facing an uphill struggle which can only partly be> explained by our total lack of financial resources. Fortunately the> internet, which the Jews are unable to censure, has greatly improved> our possibilities to make the results of our research known to the> World, but all the same, we should not cherish naive illusions: Not> every citizen of the Western world who is informed about the> revisionist arguments will automatically become revisionist and> anti-Zionist. The average person in the West - and particularly in> Germany - has been so thoroughly brainwashed that a sudden exposure to> the truth can provoke a nervous breakdown or stomach cramps. I have> repeatedly witnessed this myself. Other people would gladly accept the> truth about the holocaust, but as they know that even the slightest> suspicion of revisionism leads to social ostracism, economic ruin and> legal persecution, they understandably prefer not to get involved.> However, if we want to win the war against those whom one of my> Russian friends called "the enemies of God and mankind"..>> The logical consequence of all this is that those countries which are> authentically anti-Zionist and real friends of the oppressed> Palestinian people should make the breakthrough of holocaust> revisionism their foremost priority. A tank costs millions of dollars,> yet one soldier can destroy it with a single missile. The revisionists> can provide anti-Zionist freedom fighters with a weapon not even a> thousand missiles can destroy.">>>> http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com>> http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.nsm88.com/>> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.htmlWell the claim that they were fighting for a homeland might float, howeverif the are still more concerned about jewish aims and dreams than weighingthis of with the requirements of the other non jewish citizens in thecountries in which they reside, then obviously the non jewish citizens havereason to object and ignore their claims at the expense of their own wealth, lives and wellbeing.We have already paid a top price for assisting jews in their selfish selfishself centred aims.Casualties in WW2Not including the documented 5 million non Jewish in concentration campswho far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims. And thisis without lies and exaggerations about non jewish cassualities.Soviet Union 25,568,000China 11,324,000Germany 7,060,000Poland 6,850,000Japan 1,806,000Yugoslavia 1,700,000Rumania 985,000France 810,000Austria 525,000Italy 410,000Great Britain 388,000USA 295,000Holland 250,000Belgium 85,000Finland 79,000Canada 42,000India 36,000Australia 29,000Albania 28,000Spain 22,000Bulgaria 21,000New Zealand 12,000Norway 10,000South Africa 9,000Luxembourg 5,000Denmark 4,000TOTAL 58,353,000The Jewish ghetto police always had the option, she said, of "throwing offtheir uniforms and joining the rest of us" - a point that Yitzak Zuckerman,a leader of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, made in his memoir.http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=2139Without Jewish co operation through the zionists the Germans would neverhave had the resources to herd the Jews into the various camps. And thezionists made it impossible for the underground to trust the jews.Like elsewhere, the only people who had the information and the ear of thefrightened Jewish population were the Judenrat. In this case the Judenratcomprised mainly the Zionist Federation members. Without their help the SS,with 19 officers and less than 90 men, plus a few hundred Hungarian police,could not have collected and controlled a million Jews, when they did noteven know their whereabouts.http://www.geocities.com/chabaan_2000/safad.HTM_____________________________________THE PROBLEM BEING THAT THE ONLY WILD AND WEIRD ACCOUNTS OF UNTRAMMELLEDHORROR CAME FROM ONLY JEWS.NON JEWS COMPLETELY CONTRADICTED THE WILD STORIES FROM THE CONTRACTINGMUSCLES TO THE SOAP AND TATTOOED LAMPSHADES, ALL BS.During World WarII, Rassinier was a highly decorated member of the FrenchResistance. In October of 1943 he was arrested by the Gestapo for variousactivities including the smuggling of Jewish refugees over the Franco-Swissborder took 2 years to publish his book because of persistent resistanceby the jewish clique.http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.htmlhttp://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/A4.htmlhttp://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/articles/HowWarsBegin.htmlhttp://www.anti-rev.org/textes/VidalNaquet92a/part-6.htmlhttp://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_RassinierBut the huge money involved in the reparations won out and we have anothertrue report labeled as a revision against the lies that were spread andapparently plenty of jewish and jewish supporters willing to jump on thebandwagon and build up the stories, supply all sorts of shonky evidence tosupport the lies.And of course the jewish money made it very iffy for experts to testifybecause of the constant arttacks , false ads on the net. in books and byevery jew and his mother of all ages whose chances of being either witnessesof involved were/are slimmer but apparently the courts i n Germany also helpthe cause of falsifying evidence.Although even honest jews could not sway the lies and Finklestein likeRassinier, Harry Elmer Barnes(http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace-Harry-Elmer-Barnes/dp/0939484013 -http://www.courts.fsnet.co.uk/harryelmerbarnes.htm and of course you willfind the jewish supporters here labelling him as a revisionist because hedid not agree with their versionhttp://www.revisionists.com/revisionists/barnes.html -http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/barnes.html), Charles A. Beard(http://www.questia.com/read/6153679?title=Cross%20Currents%20in%20Europe%20To-Day- http://www.questia.com/SM.qst) , Herman Hesse(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Fairy_Tales_of_Hermann_Hesse) ,Frederick Bausman (http://www.thenation.com/archive/detail/13677001) allthe honest teachers and historians were labelled nazi , which of course theywerent, but if you point out the lies the only support you are going to getis from anti semitic groups.And of course there is the decent honest jew tired of the lies.A statement by Norman G. Finkelstein upon publication of Beyond Chutzpahhttp://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/6973http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.htmlI, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are personswith PhD's in various fields whoalso deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Untilrecently, there was never a forensicexamination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). Demographic figuresare incomplete. After the fallof East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled Polandinto the Soviet Union or ended upbehind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many civiliansdied in the war, many died in theconcentration camps of louse-born typhus. During World War One, two millioncivilians in the Soviet Union diedof typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a HolocaustDocumentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged victimsof Naziextermination. But as you can see HERE(http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann), nearlyevery name is listed at leasttwice, some as many as five times!http://www.yadvashem.org/lwp/workplace/IY_HON_WelcomeYad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearlyeveryone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, includingyou can submit a "Page of Testimony".And of course we have lists duplicated, unconfirmed, but 3m according to ourusual jewish/Zionist sources.Put your name in, you might be missing out on reparations.Has been improvements since this, numbers still very dicey.Name Town District RegionCountry Bday SourceFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1879 list of victims from GermanyFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1879 list of deportation from BerlinFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1905 list of deportation from BerlinIt is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions withlouse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)or diesel exhaust as alleged by malicious "witnesses" or torturedconfessors. There are no written orders forextermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration campsshow no smoke and flamesbelching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and recordsshow there was not enough coke orcrematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and confessorslied about how many minutes it takesto cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount ofcarbon monoxide to kill a human. Ifthe Nazis wanted to kill millions they could have driven the coal firedtrain into a tunnel or quonset hut and gassed'em with the exhaust from the locomotive or used the exhaust from thecrematoria. At Auschwitz, during a typhusepidemic, up to 300 people died per day, hence the crematoria, shaving ofheads and requisitions for tons ofZyklon B louse disinfestant. HCN is a very dangerous, impractical, messymethod for extermination.http://www.vho.org/The Holocaust Controversy A Case for open DebateThe Gas Chambers are a fraud, a tourist attraction, slander, demonizing,impractical/impossible, maliciousatrocity propaganda spread by the communists, who hated Hitler andperpetrated by Jews, who were alwayslooking for ways to get to the lands of milk and money. The Jews haveextorted billions from the US Treasury,Germany, Swiss banks and insurance companies on account of the Holohoaxfraud. The Holohoax also makesthose who fought Hitler feel like they did something good fighting thedemon, Hitler instead of letting Hitler takeon Stalin alone.A "liberal" person has an open mind. A bigot is irrational and obstinate.And then we have the honest red cross with no ulterior motives.The New Blasphemyby Tom BlairNews Editor, The JubileeThere was a time when a man did not blaspheme God in America. There weresevere social proscriptions against it. Some communities even had lawsagainst blasphemy. Well blasphemy is still a great sin in America and maysoon be a crime again. But sadly America has a new god and so, a newblasphemy.Let me here commit the new blasphemy while it is still legal. What we knowas the "holocaust" is largely war-time propaganda. Propaganda that, unlikemost war-time propaganda, was not quietly forgotten. Instead it hascontinued; grown more fantastic, more hateful, and more dangerous toquestion every year since 1945.The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died inGerman work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hungercaused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of herinfrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realizethat the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942until the end of the war. That office never reported or recorded anyatrocities (Several years ago international Jewry forced the Red Cross toapologize to the Jews - apologize for not seeing something that neverhappened.)Ø > WARNING To People in Austria; Belgium; France; Germany;> > Israel; Spain and Switzerland. You can be fined,> > imprisoned or both for discussing the topics set> > forth in this article.It was only after I moved to the Los Angeles area several years ago that Irealized that many people were not aware that millions of victims of theHolocaust were NOT Jewish. Outside the Polish community, I heard very littlemention about the five million non-Jewish victims -- usually referred to as"the othersSubject: Israeli rabbi backs Jewish suicide attacks Organization: Copyright1997 by Reuters Lines: 43 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 9:22:44 PDT Kidnappings, Beatings, Murders and HangingsAttacks by the Irgun and Stern Gang - In 1944, with the end the war insight, Irgun, now under the leadership of Menachem Begin , the future PrimeMinister of Israel 1977-83, began to attack the British administration inPalestine, starting with bomb attacks on the immigration offices, taxoffices and police stations. http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/kidnap.htmThe Americans were strongly pro Jewish and very anti British. One Hollywoodmotion picture Mogul declared in the British press that he had a holiday inhis heart every time a British soldier was killed in Palestine. and largesections of the American media echoed this sentiment.November 27 -Eight British soldiers killed in bomb attack on police station Jerusalem,Palestine, in Jewish Irgun terrorist attack.http://www.cdiss.org/terror_1940s.htmJuly 22 - Ninety people killed and forty five wounded after Jewishterrorists blow up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, Palestine, which washome to British government and military offices. The terrorists held workersat pistol point while they planted the explosives in the basement of thehotel.July 12 - Jewish Irgun terrorists kidnap and then hang two British Armysergeants. The terrorists were trying to secure the release of three Irgunmembers who had been sentenced to death by the British authorities inPalestine.September 29 - Jewish Irgun terrorists bomb police station in Haifa,Palestine, killing four British and four Arab policemen, as well as two Arabcivilians. Forty six people injured.HOW ABOUT YOU BETRAYING THE USA AND IT'S ALLIES?????HOW ABOUT YOUR SHIPMATES 0- SORRY GOOD EHOUGH?http://www.ussliberty.com/challenge.htm - $10,000 challenge - The LibertyVeterans Association offers a $10,000 reward to anyone who can establish thetruth of A. Jay Cristol's claim: 1http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.htmlAt 0800 hrs, 8 June, 1967, eight Israeli recon flights flew over 'Liberty,'which was flying a large American flag. At 1400 hrs, waves of low-flyingIsraeli Mystere and Mirage-III fighter-bombers repeatedly attacked theAmerican vessel with rockets, napalm, and cannon. The air attacks lasted 20minutes, concentrating on the ship's electronic antennas and dishes. The'Liberty' was left afire, listing sharply. Eight of her crew lay dead, ahundred seriously wounded, including the captain, Commander WilliamMcGonagle.http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-l/agtr5.htmOn the afternoon of 8 June 1967, while in international waters off the SinaiPeninsula, Liberty, though clearly marked as a U.S. Navy ship, was struck byIsraeli aircraft. After suffering damage and many personnel casualties fromgunfire, rockets and bombs, she was further attacked by three Israeli Navymotor torpedo boats. One torpedo hit her on the starboard side, forward ofthe superstructure, opening a large hole in her hull. In all, thirty-fourmen were killed in the attacks and nearly 170 wounded. Israel subsequentlyapologized for the incident, explaining that its air and naval forces hadmistaken the Liberty for a much smaller Egyptian Navy ship.December 12 - Twenty Arabs, five Jews and two British soldiers killed andthirty wounded in Jewish terrorist bomb attacks on buses in Haifa andRamleh, Palestine. British mandate to rule Palestine ends on 15 May 1948;state of Israel established.December 29 - Jewish Irgun terrorists throw grenades from passing taxi intocafé near the Damascus gate, Jerusalem, Palestine, killing eleven Arabs andtwo British policemen.March 11Headquarters of the Jewish Agency, Jerusalem, Palestine, destroyed by Arabcar bomb killing thirteen and injuring eighty four.April 9Jewish Irgun terrorist group attacks Deir Yassim, Palestine, murdering twohundred and fifty four Arab women and children captured in the remains ofthe village.JEWS APPEAR TO BE THE ONLY ONES WITH VOICES, WHAT HAS HPPENED TO THEPREVIOUSLY VOCIFEROUS WASPS, and other religious and non religious groups.ONE JEWISH HOLLYWOOD MOTION PICTURE MOGULThe the Jewish controlled American media proclaimed Americans were stronglypro Jewish and very anti British. One Hollywood motion picture Moguldeclared in the British press that he had a holiday in his heart every timea British soldier was killed in Palestine. and large sections of theAmerican media echoed this sentiment.http://hnn.us/articles/832.html"The Palestinians are fighting with human suicide bombers, that's all theyhave. The Israelis . . . they've got one of the most powerful militarymachines in the world. The Palestinians have nothing."-- Ted Turner, Founder of CNN"I do not think that in his heart an Israeli would deny that, if your enemyhas taken land that is rightfully yours and occupied it, then not just yourenemy's army but his wife and son and daughter and servants and all who,under his protection, come to live and make their living on the stolen land,are aggressors. By their presence they aid and abet the occupation."-- Matthew Parris, Saturday Times of London, June 22, 2002"David Ben-Gurion never moved against the Irgun and the Stern Gang untilafter the state was established and secured, which is definitely not true inthe case of the Palestinian Authority. Essentially, the Israelis are askingthe Palestinians to do something they themselves refused to do." i-- Hussein Ibish, Communication director of the American ArabAnti-Discrimination Committeehttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mufti.html Zionist Jewish supremacists really hate this kind of article, that is why"Hate Crimes" exist. To protect the highest criminals.Is this Politically Correct??[The very creation of Israel required an act of terror. In 1948, most of thenon-Jewish indigenous people were ethnically cleansed from the part ofPalestine which became Israel. This action was carefully planned. Withoutit, no state with a Jewish majority and character would have been possible.Since 1948, the "Israeli Arabs", those Palestinians who avoided expulsion,have suffered continuous discrimination. Indeed, many have been internallydisplaced, ostensibly for "security reasons", but really to acquire theirlands for Jews.]No, the Zionofreaks want to ban any history but what they write.Isn't it quite glaringly obvious that "The Holocaust" legends would fallapart without laws that make it illegal to question it?Isn't it glaringly obvious that 911 was the "Goy Holocaust" for America,that short circuits critical thinking and creates a victim mentallity thatjustifies all sorts of crimes against "evil"?Without "The Holocaust" and "911", the manipulators of the US and Israelwould not have been able to carry out their "War on Terror" terrorismagainst the Arabs.But with a public that thinks it is persecuted and under attack, anyatrocity is justified.The terrorists have won. For now.http://forum.cari.com.my/archiver/?tid-117974.htmlDecember 4, 1948New Palestine PartyVisit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political Movement DiscussedTO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergencein the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut),a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, politicalphilosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formedout of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, aterrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.Attack on Arab VillageA shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin.This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had takenno part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use thevillage as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bandsattacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in thefighting, killed most of its inhabitants - 240 men, women, and children -and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets ofJerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and theJewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan.But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of thismassacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondentspresent in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc atDeir Yassin.The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of theFreedom Party. (signed)Isidore Abramowitz, Hannah Arendt, Abraham Brick, Rabbi Jessurun Cardozo,Albert Einstein, Herman Eisen, M.D., Hayim Fineman, M. Gallen, M.D., H.H.Harris, Zelig S. Harris, Sidney Hook, Fred Karush, Bruria Kaufman, Irma L.Lindheim, Nachman Maisel, Symour Melman, Myer D. Mendelson, M.D., Harry M.Orlinsky, Samuel Pitlick, Fritz Rohrlich, Louis P. Rocker, Ruth Sager,Itzhak Sankowsky, I.J. Schoenberg, Samuel Shuman, M. Znger, Irma Wolpe,Stefan WolpeNew York, Dec. 2, 1948[/quote]http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article1197235.ece"B.H. Cramer" <benj...@yourservice.com> wrote in messagenews:4MKdnSvnVuD_lmrV...@giganews.com...>> "Jason P" <jas...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:xY6dndIdJenal2rV...@earthlink.com...>>>> "B.H. Cramer" <benj...@yourservice.com> wrote in messagenews:fvmdnZT_ff_ILmnV...@giganews.com...>>>>>> NEVER FORGET: "Deborah Lipstadt, author of the anti-revisionist polemic>>> Denying the Holocaust, has assigned [Binjamin Wilkormiski's book]Fragments>>> in her Emory University class on Holocaust memoirs. When confronted with>>> evidence that it is a fraud [the author spent the war in comfort in>>> Switzerland, not Auschwitz, and was not even a Jew], she commented thatthe>>> new revelations 'might complicate matters somewhat, but [the work] isstill>>> powerful.'" ->>>>>> In other words, who cares about fact or fiction where the Holocaust is>>> concerned?>>>>>>> And she had the classic Jew audacity to discredit David Irving, and thenmake news about it, going on TV with her Jewtardian anti-revisionism soundbites.>>>> Jason P>> Lipstadt is a disgusting, ugly, lying jewess, who is a tad smarter thancohen.>> Here's some questions put to the slag which she has never acknowledged.>> Questions for Lipstadt>> WE ARE often asked for questions to put to Professor Lipstadt in herwell-funded peregrinations around the world.> ________________________________________> . . . here are just a few:> 1. Prof. Lipstadt - why were you afraid to go into the witness box andexpose yourself even to the questioning of an amateur like Mr. Irving? Youeffectively pleaded the Fifth Amendment, which is the traditional route ofthose with something to hide. (Mr. Irving subjected himself voluntarily tothree weeks' cross examination by one of the world's leading trial lawyers,and he voluntarily made available to you his entire private and publicpapers.)>> 2. are you aware that one of your main researchers, Dr. David Cesarani,said that Mr. Irving gave the defence some scary moments, particularly whentheir chief expert witness on the architecture of Auschwitz, Prof. Van Pelt,proved unable to explain what had happened to the bodies (i.e. the logisticsof disposing, for example, of 450,000 Hungarian Jews' bodies in threeweeks - around 50,000 tons of corpses, by a small Sonderkommando in onecrematory building) [Internet link: seehttp://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/trial3/DieZeit120400e.html]>> 3. why did you not accept David Irving's challenge, made three timespublicly in the courtroom, that he would halt the case in mid-trial if youcould find any evidence of the holes in the roof slab of Crematorium II atAuschwitz - which still exists - through which "eye witnesses" in the pay ofwar-crimes prosecution teams claimed to have seen SS officers tipping theZyklon B granules? Your own chief witness Van Pelt said there are no suchholes in the slab, so somebody lied, right?>> 4. why are you afraid of free debate? You have said there is no debate,but when push came to shove your highly paid Queen's Counsel felt itnecessary to fill the courtroom every day for three months with over thirtylawyers, counsel, barristers, assistants, historians, and researchers, justto stand up against Mr. Irving, who appeared in court alone. Was your casereally that weak?>> 5. why have you and your friends done all you can to muzzle Mr. Irving -by putting pressure on publishers, broadcasters, television companies, andgovernments not to allow him to speak or to publish his widely acknowledgedbooks? What are you scared of?>> 6. in a trial which was about a very serious matter, why did you instructyour counsel to resort to smear tactics, branding Mr. Irving as ananti-Semite and a racist (although he, unlike your Counsel, frequentlyemploys ethnic minorities as his personal staff), and although neitherallegation was made in your book or pleaded in your initial Defence? Wereyou frightened of fighting the case on the facts of history?>> 7. how much money have you made out of this trial (articles, speakingfees, etc.) already? That's what it's about, isn't it - money?>> 8. do you think it right that your lawyers paid some of your so called"neutral" expert witnesses a quarter of a million dollars in inducements totestify in your favour? Those six million dollars put up by StevenSpielberg - you are a religious scholar: Have you never heard the Bible say,"Good wine needs no bush"? If your case is rock solid why was so much moneyswilling around that London courtroom? [Internet link:http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/experts/payments.html]>> 9. a new Zealand academic tribunal has just found that Prof. RichardEvans, your chief witness, was guilty of grossly distorting, misquoting,exaggerating, and polemicizing in his similar "expert report" on Dr. JoelHayward, and totally lacking in the objectivity that is expected by a courtof an expert witness. How do you feel about Evans now? [Internet link:http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/experts/Evans/NZReportExtract.html]>> 10. have you read Norman Finkelstein's book, The Holocaust Industry. Is hea racist and anti-Semite too?>> 11. you have argued in your books and articles that Jews should neverstoop to marrying outside their religion and race. Is that not racism in itspurest and most evil form?>> 12. who paid your own multi-million dollar legal expenses, and why did theBritish High Court, unusually, not allow you to reclaim them?>> 13. Judge Gray found in his Judgment that three of the statements you madein your book against Mr Irving are in fact serious lies just as he claimed(the Stockholm terrorist conference, the Hitler painting "above his desk",the stealing or damaging of the Goebbels diaries from the Moscow archives.Have you removed them from the book's latest editions?) (Answer: You havenot).>>>>>>What fraud? Stop trying to divert attention from whats important here. Also,how has David Irving got anything to do w/ 'reactivating the Nazi Party'?He's a historian - also used to be a very famous one too, until he realisedthe truth & stopped writing about the 'Holocaust', THAT was his crime. Ialso believed in it until I started looking at all these reports. Q: Ifthere was a 100% certainty it never happened, what evidence would stop youbelieving? A : NONE while you accept the staus quo.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_dQz86Ve8whttp://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=102884http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/09/frequently-asked-questions-about.htmlRefute this? Instead of refuting the evidence they are constantly trying tostop any discussion of the facts.http://www.usajewish.com/downloads/vicki-devil-worship.wmvhttp://www.honestmediatoday.com/david_cole.htmHis attorney, Ludwig Bock, said he would appeal."What is notable is the iron-hard refusal of the court to allowconsideration of new scientific findings or expert opinions," Bock said.http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/02/15/570024-holocaust-denier-gets-prison-in-germanysentenced to the maximum five years in prison Thursday for anti-Semiticactivities, including contributing to a Web site dedicated to Holocaustdenial.An Australian citizen, Dr Fredrick Toben, was arrested in Germany in April1999 and will go on trial in early November.http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/toben.htmhttp://www.usajewish.com/downloads/vicki-devil-worship.wmv"JimC" <jimco...@juno.com> wrote in messagenews:1161264254.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> > > If they could find at least one gas chamber some place, or at leastthe> > > foundations of a gas chamber, they might have something to go by. BUT> > > THERE IS NONE.>> That is absolute nonsense. The Holocaust is one of the most documented> events in history.>And museums and memorials and jews willing to swear on a stack of bibles, erTorahs, that they saw one in whatever camp they claimed to be in.What we do know for sure is that the zionists thought it was all a hell of agood idea for recruiting cannon fodder for Palestine/israel.No Evidence Of GenocideOne of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that itclarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred inthe camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaoticcondition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of thewar, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimedan increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, theGerman Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ...In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC andGeneral of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results.Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegatewas authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the diresituation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicitin stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Alliedbombing of German transportation, and in the interests of internedJews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarousaerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impendingcollapse of the German transportation system, declaring thatstarvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becominginevitable.In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it isimportant to stress that the delegates of the International Red Crossfound no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of adeliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages theReport does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admitsthat Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours andprivations, but its complete silence on the subject of plannedextermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like theVatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross founditself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocidewhich had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortalityrate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewishdoctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the easternfront, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) - Incidentally, it isfrequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gaschambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Reportmakes nonsense of this allegation. "Not only the washing places, butinstallations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by thedelegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made lessprimitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).Not All Were InternedVolume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish CivilianPopulation) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of thefree population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by nomeans all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, butremained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the freecivilian population. This conflicts directly with the "thoroughness"of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in theforged Höss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "everysingle Jew he could lay his hands on."In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wislicenywas in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of theJewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certainperiods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge forJews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained inSlovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end ofAugust 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. Whileit is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about theinternment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in campswhere the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where theinternees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to thoseof the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jewsavoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continuedthroughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupiedterritories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of thePolish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jewsfrom Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits tothe United States were held to be American citizens by the Germanoccupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity ofabout three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates ofSouth American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp insouthern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jewsfrom Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by theGerman authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report,"Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leaveHungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the HorthyGovernment in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the SovietUnion) with a government more dependent on German authority, theemigration of Jews continued.The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the UnitedStates "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews fromHungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a messagestating that "The Government of the United States ... now specificallyrepeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for thecare of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed toleave" (Vol. I, p . 649).Casualties in WW2Not including the documented 5 million non Jewish in concentration campswho far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims. And thisis without lies and exaggerations about non jewish cassualities. And freedomfor any historian or amateur history buff to examine and point out flawswithout fear of castigation or jail terms.And no one is going around asking for special favors and sympathy because ofthese immense casualities. And certainly don't look like getting anythingfrom jewish interests who by lies have swollen their numbers to higher thanthese.Soviet Union 25,568,000China 11,324,000Germany 7,060,000Poland 6,850,000Japan 1,806,000Yugoslavia 1,700,000Rumania 985,000France 810,000Austria 525,000Italy 410,000Great Britain 388,000USA 295,000Holland 250,000Belgium 85,000Finland 79,000Canada 42,000India 36,000Australia 29,000Albania 28,000Spain 22,000Bulgaria 21,000New Zealand 12,000Norway 10,000South Africa 9,000Luxembourg 5,000Denmark 4,000http://www.heretical.com/miscella/rudolf.htmlOfficial German Record of Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, May1940 through December 1944Dr. Germar RudolfTable 1: Non-Jewish Prisoners Entering Auschwitz 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944TOTALS 6769 22632 26561 76310 29513http://www.ussliberty.org/"The saving of the Jews in Europe did not figure at the head of the list ofpriorities of the ruling class. It was the foundation of the State which wasprimordial in their eyes."http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/books/miscelleneous/the-founding-myths-of-israeli-politics/part3.htm "The masses of Jews from Hungary's ghettos obediently boarded thedeportation trains without knowing their fate. They were full of confidence in the false information that they were being transferred toKenyermeze. The Nazis could not have misled the masses of Jews so conclusively hadthey not spread their false information through Jewish channels. The Jews of the ghettos would not have trusted the Nazi or Hungarianrulers. But they had trust in their Jewish leaders. Eichmann and othersused this known fact as part of their calculated plan to mislead the Jews. They were able to deport the Jews to their extermination by the help ofJewish leaders. The false information was spread by the Jewish leaders. The local leadersof the Jews of Kluj and Nodvarod knew that other leaders were spreadingsuch false information and did not protest. Those of the Jews who tried to warn their friends of the truth werepersecuted by the Jewish leaders in charge of the local 'rescue work'.A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungaryin July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily.She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of "gaschambers" during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassingstories only later. [15]Inmates ReleasedMore than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. Inaddition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences werereleased, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz hadactually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans havereleased inmates who "knew" what was happening there?Himmler Orders Death Rate ReducedThe truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died inGerman work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hungercaused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of herinfrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realizethat the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942 untilthe end of the war. That office never reported or recorded any atrocities (Several years agointernational Jewry forced the Red Cross to apologize to the Jews -apologize for not seeing something that never happened.)Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situationas far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating thatfood supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of Germantransportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested onMarch 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (InterArma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the GermanForeign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportationsystem, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germanywere becoming inevitable.Read the Red Cross reports. Go to the Red Cross museum, headquarters in your city and pick up the records. Anyway theres a few independent witnesses. http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htmRassinier seems to wrap it up. http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.htmlhttp://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=293321480 http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735 http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm Rassinier seems to wrap it up. http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.htmlDuring World WarII, Rassinier was a highly decorated member of the FrenchResistance. In October of 1943 he was arrested by the Gestapo for variousactivities including the smuggling of Jewish refugees over the Franco-Swissborder. http://www.codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/PORT1RAS.HTML http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2_Letters.html On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A. Lindbergh broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that when Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WW2, he was told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/lindbergh3.htmlAs a historical revisionist, in the tradition of Harry Elmer Barnes, CharlesA. Beard, Herman Hesse, Frederick Bausman, his aim is simply "keeping therecord straight."http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.htmlI, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are personswith PhD's in various fields whoalso deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Untilrecently, there was never a forensicexamination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). Demographic figuresare incomplete. After the fallof East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled Polandinto the Soviet Union or ended upbehind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many civiliansdied in the war, many died in theconcentration camps of louse-born typhus. During World War One, two millioncivilians in the Soviet Union diedof typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a HolocaustDocumentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged victimsof Naziextermination. But as you can see HERE(http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann), nearlyevery name is listed at leasttwice, some as many as five times!http://www.yadvashem.org/lwp/workplace/IY_HON_WelcomeYad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearlyeveryone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, includingyou can submit a "Page of Testimony".And of course we have lists duplicated, unconfirmed, but 3m according to ourusual jewish/Zionist sources.Put your name in, you might be missing out on reparations.Has been improvements since this, numbers still very dicey.Name Town District RegionCountry Bday SourceFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1879 list of victims from GermanyFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1879 list of deportation from BerlinFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1905 list of deportation from BerlinIt is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions withlouse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)or diesel exhaust as alleged by malicious "witnesses" or torturedconfessors. There are no written orders forextermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration campsshow no smoke and flamesbelching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and recordsshow there was not enough coke orcrematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and confessorslied about how many minutes it takesto cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount ofcarbon monoxide to kill a human. Ifthe Nazis wanted to kill millions they could have driven the coal firedtrain into a tunnel or quonset hut and gassed'em with the exhaust from the locomotive or used the exhaust from thecrematoria. At Auschwitz, during a typhusepidemic, up to 300 people died per day, hence the crematoria, shaving ofheads and requisitions for tons ofZyklon B louse disinfestant. HCN is a very dangerous, impractical, messymethod for extermination.http://www.vho.org/The Holocaust Controversy A Case for open DebateThe Gas Chambers are a fraud, a tourist attraction, slander, demonizing,impractical/impossible, maliciousatrocity propaganda spread by the communists, who hated Hitler andperpetrated by Jews, who were alwayslooking for ways to get to the lands of milk and money. The Jews haveextorted billions from the US Treasury,Germany, Swiss banks and insurance companies on account of the Holohoaxfraud. The Holohoax also makesthose who fought Hitler feel like they did something good fighting thedemon, Hitler instead of letting Hitler takeon Stalin alone.A "liberal" person has an open mind. A bigot is irrational and obstinate. Franciszek Piper, director of the historical committee of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum, said yesterday that, according to recent research, at least 1.3 million people were deported to the camp, of whom about 223,000 survived. The 1.1 million victims included 960,000 Jews, between 70,000 and 75,000 Poles, nearly all of the 23,000 Gypsies sent to the camp and 15,000 Soviet prisoners of war.<< Official Auschwitz figures! http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/history/auschwitz-figures.htm Some indeed died by disease, old age and accidents of war. Most did at the end of war, thanks to the Allie efficient bombing of railroad transportation. But at least half..at the least, died by the hands of the Turd Reich. Not true! Jews were put to labor camps, for security reason and later to move them to Palestine or Madagascar. Same reason as the US forced some 150,000 Jap-Americans and Germans into camps. It makes no difference if they were machinegunned into mass graves by the Einsatzgruppen, or the aroma of Zyklon B, Zyklon-B was a disinfectants, to delouse housing, personal belongings of inmates. It was used for to save lives not kill. After the war propaganda lies changed that.The Wiesenthal Record While it is gratifying to note that, in his recent "Revisionist" letter, Wiesenthal implicitly "denies history" as "established" by the Nuremberg Tribunal, it must be pointed out that nearly everything else he says is untrue. There is not a shred of evidence, for example, that "a gas chamber was in the process of being built at Dachau, but it was never completed." (See "The Second Leuchter Report" by American gas chamber expert Fred Leuchter in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1990.) There is likewise no proof that "mentally and physically handicapped people were killed" by gas at any of the four "institutions" Wiesenthal mentions. This US Army photo was taken at Dachau on April 30, 1945, one day after the camp's capture. It shows a GI standing in front of a door marked with a skull and crossbones and the words "Caution! Gas! Life danger! Do not open!" According to the official caption, "these chambers were used by Nazi guards for killing prisoners of the infamous Dachau concentration camp." In fact, this is a small disinfection gas chamber used for delousing clothes. It was never used to kill people. For several decades, this photo has been widely reproduced to help keep alive the notorious Dachau "gas chamber" myth. (US Army photo SC 206194.) Actually -- and contrary to his highly flattering public image -- the renowned "Nazi hunter" has a well-documented but little-known record of deceit, mendacity and prevarication. Some highlights: Wiesenthal repeatedly lied about his alleged role in locating Adolf Eichmann, was consistently wrong about Josef Mengele, and falsely accused Polish-American Frank Walus of having murdered Jews in Poland as a Gestapo official. Wiesenthal has absurdly charged that the Germans exterminated Jews in "electrocution chambers," and that they manufactured bars of soap from the bodies of murdered Jews. His deception about his own wartime activities prompted Austrian Chancellor Bruno Kreisky (himself of Jewish ancestry) to accuse the "Nazi hunter" of having collaborated with his wartime oppressors. (For details about Wiesenthal's record, see: M. Weber, "Simon Wiesenthal: Bogus Nazi Hunter," The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1989-90.) THE CANADIAN JEWISH NEWS, Jan. 30, 1992 Wannsee's importance rejected London (JTA) - An Israeli Holocaust scholar has debunked the Wannsee Conference, at which top Nazi officials are said to have gathered at a villa in a Berlin suburb in 1942 to draw the blueprints of the "Final Solution." According to Prof. Yehuda Bauer (photo) of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Wannsee was a meeting, "but hardly a conference", and "little of what was said there was executed in detail." "The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at." "I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert, nor have I written books about what is now called the Holocaust." "I have done my best to prepare the case that follows, but I respectfully submit that I do not have any duty to become an expert on the Holocaust, my Lord." "I have never claimed to be a Holocaust historian. As I have said, I have no written no book about the Holocaust. I have written no article about it. If I have spoken about it, it is usually because somebody has asked me a question, I have been questioned about it. On such occasions I have emphasised my lack of expertise and I have expatiated only upon those areas with which I am familiar."The Jews And The Concentration Camps:A Factual Appraisal By The Red Cross.There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe during World WarTwo and the conditions of Germany's concentration camps which isalmost unique in its honesty and objectivity, the three-volume Reportof the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activitiesduring the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral sourceincorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works:Documents sur l'activité du CICR en faveur des civils détenus dans lescamps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), andInter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War(Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet,explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in thetradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, andherein lies its great value.The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention inorder to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and WesternEurope by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable togain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify theConvention. The millions of civilian and military internees held inthe USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, werecompletely cut off from any international contact or supervision.The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies thelegitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained inconcentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the twocategories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the secondtype as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German,"Schutzhäftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motivesbecause their presence was considered a danger to the State or theoccupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues,"were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisonedunder common law for security reasons." (P.74).The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permitsupervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating tosecurity, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained importantconcessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute foodparcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and"from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all othercamps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78). The ICRC soon establishedcontact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programmewhich continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters ofthanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.Red Cross Recipients Were JewsThe Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily.From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with atotal weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps"(Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing andpharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald,Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg,Landsberg-am-Lech, Flöha, Ravensbrück, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen,Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and inCentral and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians,Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews"(Vol. III, p. 83).In the course of the war, "The Committee was in a position to transferand distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty millionSwiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organisations throughout theworld, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee ofNew York" (Vol. I, p. 644). This latter organisation was permitted bythe German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the Americanentry into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vastrelief operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans butfrom the tight Allied blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases ofrelief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which prevailedat Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in April1945. This camp, "where there were about 40,000 Jews deported fromvarious countries was a relatively privileged ghetto" (Vol. III, p.75). According to the Report, "'The Committee's delegates were able tovisit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusivelyfor Jews and was governed by special conditions. From informationgathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experimentby certain leaders of the Reich ... These men wished to give the Jewsthe means of setting up a communal life in a town under their ownadministration and possessing almost complete autonomy. . . twodelegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. Theyconfirmed the favourable impression gained on the first visit" (Vol.I, p . 642).The ICRC also had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of FascistRumania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to183,000 Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation. The aidthen ceased, and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded"in sending anything whatsoever to Russia" (Vol. II, p. 62). The samesituation applied to many of the German camps after their "liberation"by the Russians. The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail fromAuschwitz until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of theinternees were evacuated westward. But the efforts of the Red Cross tosend relief to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet controlwere futile. However, food parcels continued to be sent to formerAuschwitz inmates transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald andOranienburg.No Evidence Of GenocideOne of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that itclarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred inthe camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaoticcondition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of thewar, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimedan increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, theGerman Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ...In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC andGeneral of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results.Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegatewas authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the diresituation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicitin stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Alliedbombing of German transportation, and in the interests of internedJews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarousaerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impendingcollapse of the German transportation system, declaring thatstarvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becominginevitable.In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it isimportant to stress that the delegates of the International Red Crossfound no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of adeliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages theReport does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admitsthat Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours andprivations, but its complete silence on the subject of plannedextermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like theVatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross founditself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocidewhich had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortalityrate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewishdoctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the easternfront, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) - Incidentally, it isfrequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gaschambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Reportmakes nonsense of this allegation. "Not only the washing places, butinstallations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by thedelegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made lessprimitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).Not All Were InternedVolume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish CivilianPopulation) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of thefree population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by nomeans all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, butremained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the freecivilian population. This conflicts directly with the "thoroughness"of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in theforged Höss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "everysingle Jew he could lay his hands on."In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wislicenywas in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of theJewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certainperiods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge forJews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained inSlovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end ofAugust 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. Whileit is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about theinternment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in campswhere the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where theinternees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to thoseof the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jewsavoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continuedthroughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupiedterritories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of thePolish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jewsfrom Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits tothe United States were held to be American citizens by the Germanoccupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity ofabout three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates ofSouth American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp insouthern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jewsfrom Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by theGerman authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report,"Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leaveHungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the HorthyGovernment in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the SovietUnion) with a government more dependent on German authority, theemigration of Jews continued.The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the UnitedStates "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews fromHungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a messagestating that "The Government of the United States ... now specificallyrepeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for thecare of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed toleave" (Vol. I, p . 649).Biedermann agreed that in the nineteen instances that "Did Six MillionReally Die?" quoted from the Report of the International Committee ofthe Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War and InterArma Caritas (this includes the above material), it did so accurately.A quote from Charles Biedermann (a delegate of the InternationalCommittee of the Red Cross and Director of the Red Cross'International Tracing Service) under oath at the Zündel Trial(February 9, 10, 11 and 12, 1988).Let me here commit the new blasphemy while it is still legal. What we knowas the "holocaust" is largely war-time propaganda. Propaganda that, unlikemost war-time propaganda, was not quietly forgotten. Instead it hascontinued; grown more fantastic, more hateful, and more dangerous toquestion every year since 1945.The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died inGerman work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hungercaused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of herinfrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realizethat the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942until the end of the war. That office never reported or recorded anyatrocities (Several years ago international Jewry forced the Red Cross toapologize to the Jews - apologize for not seeing something that neverhappened.)Winston Churchill wrote a five volume history of World War II and nevermentioned the holocaust. He never mentioned it because he knew that theholocaust was just wartime propaganda and he did not want to sully what hehoped would be the definitive history of the war with propaganda that commonsense alone could refute. I could go on but the evidence I speak of isavailable to The Jubilee readers from many patriotic sources even though itis still widely censored by America's media and libraries."JimMcCarthy" <JimMc...@roc.usenetexchange.com> wrote in messagenews:vijtv21ngsutc83g5...@4ax.com...1 On 10 Feb 2007 12:14:16 -0800, in alt.revisionism "thedarkman"> <A_B...@ABaron.Demon.Co.UK> wrote:>> I wouldn't pay much attention to the nutter who appeared on Oprah; I> remember that, it caused eruptions at the time. So what do we have> here then? A Jewish academic who admits that hey, maybe Jews had their> bad guys too, maybe they had their share of bloodthirsty, superstious> bigots. Like I said before, this really is no big deal for me, but> watch the shabbez goyim like Mock scream, watch the ADL shriek. Don't> these people make you wanna laugh?>>> http://www.honestmediatoday.com/professor_admits_jewish_ritual_murder.htm> http://www.usajewish.com/downloads/vicki-devil-worship.wmv2>> Jewish Professor Admits Jewish Cult Engaged in Past Jewish Ritual> Murders>> According to a recent report by the newspaper "The Guardian," Jewish> Prof. Ariel Toaff, who is a professor at Bar-Ilan University in Israel> of Medieval Jewish history but is currently a visiting professor in> Italy, has written a book,"Pasque di Sangue" (Easter of Blood), which> describes Jewish ritual murder rites of Jews in the past.>> Some details of the book were published in the paper "Corriere Della> Sera," which also has an online section describing the book.>> Prof. Toaff's book reportedly "describes the mutilation and> crucifixion of a two-year-old boy to recreate Christ's execution at> Pesach, the Jewish Easter. The festival marks the fleeing of the Jews> from Egypt and Prof Toaff says Christian blood was used for 'magic and> therapeutic practices,'" noted the Guardian. Further describing the> bizarre and hateful customs of Jewish extremists, Prof. Toaff noted> that Jewish occultists would sometimes mix blood in their matzo balls,> which was eaten during their religious rites.>> He also describes many children who were reportedly crucified on the> cross.>> Unsurprisingly, many Jewish supremacists quickly denied Prof. Toaff's> accurate findings in an attempt to hide their ancient, bizarre, and> frightening customs from the general public.>> However, Prof. Toaff was hardly the first to acknowledge such crimes> in recent times. Indeed, in more recent times, a Jewish lady had> appeared on the Oprah Winfrey show several years ago and described how> some of her relatives had engaged in similar crimes. The honest and> brave Jewish lady, Vicki Polin (who used the pseudonym of "Rachel" on> the Oprah Winfrey show to avoid reprisals), told of how her family had> engaged in some extremely bizarre Satanic Jewish kabbalistic rites,> including that of infanticide (video of Oprah's interview with Polin).>> In the interview, Oprah asked the young woman, who undoubtedly had> been traumatized by the ordeal, about what exactly had occurred. Oprah> opened the discussion, telling of how the poor girl had grown up in a> family that "participated in human sacrifice," undoubtedly causing> emotional scars that may never heal.>> Here is part of the interview:>> OPRAH: ...You come from generations of ritualistic abuse?>> POLIN: Yes, my family has an extensive family tree, and they keep> track of who's been involved and who hasn't been involved, and it's> gone back to like 1700.>> OPRAH: And so you were ritually abused.>> POLIN: Right. I was born into a family that believes in this.>> OPRAH: Does everyone else think it's a nice Jewish family? From the> outside, you appear to be a nice Jewish girl?>> POLIN: Definitely.>> OPRAH: And you all are worshipping the devil inside the home?>> POLIN: Right. There's other Jewish families across the country. It's> not just my own family.>> OPRAH: Really? And so who knows about it? Lots of people now.>> POLIN: Well, I talked to a police detective in the Chicago area, and> several of my friends know, and I've spoke publicly before, and...>> OPRAH: So when you were brought up in this kind of evilness, did you> just think it was normal?>> RACHEL: I blocked out a lot of the memories I had because of my> multiple personality disorder, but, yes. I mean, it's like if you grow> up with something, you think it's normal. I always thought> something...>> OPRAH: So what kinds of things? You don't have to give us the gory> details, but what kinds of things went on in the family?>> POLIN: Well, there would be rituals in which babies would be> sacrificed, and you would have to, you know...>> [end of Oprah excerpt]>> You can read more about Polin's ordeal at the website Lukeford.net,> which also describes many exchanges from Jews about this whole ordeal.> No doubt, it has caused a big scandal among them, with one of their> own reportedly acknowledging such grisly crimes.>>> Polin is now the CEO of the Awareness Center, which honorably works to> prevent ritual abuse and other acts of child cruelty.>> In more recent times, the book "Blood Ritual" by Philip DeVier and the> DVD "Jewish Ritual Murder Revisited: The Hidden Cult Revealed," the> latter having an interview with noted scholar Dr. Harrell Rhome and> also being found online in streamable format, have also covered this> wicked crime committed by Jewish extremists (video).>> There is no reason to believe that all Jews commit ritualistic> infanticide. However, there appears to be too much evidence to neglect> such crimes altogether in the past. If committed today, it is mostly> occurring in Israel, where Jewish occults and extremists remain> rampant, and possibly occurring elsewhere in small numbers, often> attributed as Satanic acts.>>> "Gerlach and Aly have found that 4 transports with about 15,000 HungarianJews were> re-directed to Strasshof. Assuming that Veesenmayer’s figure of 437,402deported Jews> is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000Jews not> gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about320,000> Hungarian Jews were gassed, not about 400,000, as has been assumed byhistorians.">> http://www.actionreinhardcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm>> If a part of those always assumed as "gassed" by the holoks were actuallysent to other destinations,> why not the remaining?>>>>> 2- when you show me the consumption of coke/wood related with the periodI'll tell you the number of cadavers burned.>>>> It was proved to you -- over and over again -- that you have grossly>> exaggerated the coke/wood requirement, and also that coke and wood>> were particularly easy to find around Auschwitz (there were coal>> mines in two of its sub-camps, actually).>> LOL, Proved by who?> You felt on the RJ trick, did you? LOL.> You don't miss any opportunity to make a fool of yourself, do you?>> Don't rely in that moron of RJ, do your homework by yourself idiot,calculate the coke's consumption on a 2 muffles x 2 furnace built by Topf.> You will find from where I based my calculations.> All is there duly appointed in a real life.>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/gusen-cremation-timesheet/>>> Some young Hungarians jews sent to Auschwitz on the "fatal" period and whosurvived>> -> A 17 year old Jewish Hungarian girl sent to Auschwitz in August 1944 anstill alive.>> Kate Bernath>> "Born 1927, Szikszo, Hungary> After the German invasion of Hungary in 1944, Kate and her family weredeported first> to the Kosice ghetto and then to the Auschwitz camp in Poland. Kate andother> prisoners were sent on to the Plaszow camp, also in Poland. As partisanraids> increased and the front drew closer, they were sent back to Auschwitz inAugust 1944.">> -> A 18 year old Jewish Hungarian boy deported to Auschwitz in May 1944>> Bart Stern>> Born 1926, Hungary> Following the German occupation of Hungary in March 1944, Bart was forcedinto a> ghetto established in his home town. From May to July 1944, the Germansdeported Jews> from Hungary to the Auschwitz extermination camp in occupied Poland. Bartwas> deported by cattle car to Auschwitz. At Auschwitz, he was selected toperform forced> labor, drilling and digging in a coal mine.>> http://www.projetaladin.org/en/voices-and-faces.html>> See the other on the page.>> -> A 16 year old Jewish Hungarian boy deported to Auschwitz in May 1944and alive>> Miklos Gruner>> In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, he was deported from Hungary to> Auschwitz-Birkenau>> http://www.henrymakow.com/translated_from_the_hungarian.html>> Aren't they the living proofs that NO PLAN OF EXTERMINATION was running atAuschwitz> including to Jewish Hungarian young people in May or August 1944?>> If those few are on that page because they are known, how many more arehere and there?>> Anyway, we just don't find ANY TRACE of the LARGE AMOUNT OF FUEL needed toburn several hundred of those supposed "Gassed Hungarians jews"...
Prince Andy
"RJ11" <rj...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:grgjbd$mtr$1...@pcls6.std.com...
"Don H" <donlhu...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:9d4mj.6731$421....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "Anarchore" <e...@t.me> wrote in message
> news:mn.c2137d817...@t.me...
> > We need another world-wide krystallnacht against Zionist interests.
> > Let's get the terrorists packing back to Israhell! No more evil scum
> > perverting society from the top. Death to Zionism.
> >
> > http://judicial-inc.biz/Kristallnacht.htm
> > Kristallnacht
> >
> > The real story
> >
> >
> >
> > Some history leading up to Kristallnacht and WW 2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Amschel Rothschild finances the Bolshevik revolution
> >
> > The three Jews Trotsky, Lenin and Stalin kill over twenty million
> > Russians who were opposing the Jewish swindle. Russian artists,
> > teachers, intellectuals, leaders are imprisoned and sent to the Gulags.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In 1933 -34 the Ukraine farmers refused to turn their land over to the
> > communists and Stalin confiscated their crops and starved seven
> > million to death.
> >
> > wpe108.jpg (9124 bytes)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hitler blocks communism and Jews declare war on Germany
> >
> >
> >
> > Hitler is in the way of Communism
> >
> > wpeFE.jpg (2489 bytes)
> >
> >
> >
> > Infuriated Jews declared war on Germany
> >
> > wpeF9.jpg (26368 bytes)
> >
> >
> >
> > Hitler stood alone and defiant against the tidal wave of Jewish
> > organized Communism then sweeping all before it. The Communists had
> > seized Russia and were at the bottom of civil unrest and revolution
> > throughout eastern Europe; Britain, France, - the Spanish Civil War -,
> > the British dominions and the United States.
> >
> > Germany alone repelled and held in check this tidal wave of subversion
> > and insurrection.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Circumstances leading up to Kristallnacht
> >
> >
> > Herschel Grynszpan
> >
> > wpeF5.jpg (3777 bytes)
> > A Jew assassinates a diplomat
> >
> > Grynszpan was an 17 yr old unemployed Jew who was funded by LICRA (
> > Jewish activist group ). His father had been a tailor who had moved
> > from Poland to Germany. Herschel had a reputation for disliking work
> > and he hung out at the homes of his uncles in Brussels and Paris.
> >
> > He checked into an expensive hotel just round the corner from the
> > offices of LICA.
> >
> > On November 7 1938, Herschel Grynszpan walked into the German embassy
> > in Paris and shot Ernst vom Rath, a German diplomat, five times.
> >
> > LICA at once hired one of the foremost barristers in Paris, and paid
> > his legal costs when he was arrested.
> > wpeF8.jpg (3083 bytes) Ernst vom Rath
> >
> > Was a 31 yr old German diplomat in Paris.
> >
> >
> >
> > Grynszpan was arrested
> > wpeF6.jpg (4305 bytes) Grynszpan was arrested at the scene and was
> > taken to a police station. Although he was a totally obscure Polish Jew
> > with no money and no apparent supporters, nevertheless one of France's
> > most famous lawyers, Moro Giafferi, appeared at the police station a
> > few hours after the shooting and told the police that he was
> > Grynszpan's attorney
> >
> >
> >
> > Famous lawyer ( Moro Giafferi ) mysteriously appears
> > wpeF7.jpg (2288 bytes)
> >
> > Moro Giafferi turns out to be the legal counsel of the LICA which was
> > founded in Paris in 1933 by the Jew Bernard Lecache and operated as a
> > militant propaganda organization .
> >
> > Another assassination
> >
> > In February 1936 Giafferi represented the Jew David Frankfurter who had
> > shot and killed Wilhelm Gustloff, the head of the Swiss branch of the
> > German National Socialist Party. During the subsequent trial it was
> > clearly established that Frankfurter had been a hired murderer with
> > backed by LICRA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Grynszpan survives the war and lives in Paris supported by LICRA
> > LICRA
> >
> > wpeF6.jpg (3187 bytes)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Grynszpan survived the war and returned to Paris where he was supported
> > by LICRA and was never charged.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bernard Lecache - LICRA founder
> > wpe100.jpg (2347 bytes) Grynszpan family recieved a vast sum and
> > papers to Palestine from LICRA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What Really Happened During the Crystal Night
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > wpeFC.jpg (11969 bytes)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Provocateurs appear in border towns
> > wpeED.jpg (4105 bytes) On 8 November 1938, one day before the Crystal
> > Night, strange persons who had never been seen there before suddenly
> > appeared in several small towns in Hessen near the French-German
> > border. They went to mayors, Kreisleiters (district Party leaders) and
> > other important officials in these towns and asked them what actions
> > were being planned against the Jews. The officials were rather startled
> > by these questions and replied that they didn't know of any such plans.
> > The strangers acted as if they were shocked to hear this. They shouted
> > and complained that something had to be done against the Jews and then,
> > without further explanation, they disappeared.
> > They usually regarded the strangers as crazy anti-Semites and promptly
> > forgot about the incidents - until the next evening. Some of these
> > apparently crazy individuals really outdid themselves.
> >
> >
> >
> > Provocateurs dress as SS
> > wpeEF.jpg (2292 bytes) In one case two men, dressed as members of the
> > SS, went to an SA Standartenfuehrer (Colonel) and ordered him to
> > destroy the nearby synagogue. To understand the absurdity of this one
> > must know that the SS and SA were completely separate organizations. A
> > real SS member would never have tried to give orders to an SA unit.
> > This case shows that the strangers were foreigners who did not even
> > understand the distinctions of German authority. The SA
> > Standartenfuehrer rejected the demands of the self-styled SS men and
> > reported the incident to his superiors.
> >
> >
> >
> > Strangers giving speeches
> > wpeFB.jpg (5701 bytes) When the provocateurs realized that their
> > efforts were not working with local officials, they changed their
> > tactics. Instead they tried to incite directly the people in the
> > streets. In another town, for example, two men appeared at the market
> > place and began making speeches to the people there, trying to incite
> > them against the Jews. Eventually some people did indeed storm the
> > synagogue, but by then the two provocateurs had, of course,
> > disappeared. Similar incidents occurred in several towns.
> > Unidentified strangers suddenly appeared, gave speeches, started
> > throwing stones at windows, stormed Jewish buildings, schools,
> > hospitals, and synagogues, and then disappeared.
> >
> > These unusual incidents had already started on the 8th of November,
> > that is, before Ernst vom Rath was dead. His death was only reported
> > late on the evening of the 9th. The fact that this strange pattern of
> > incidents had already begun one day earlier proves that the death of
> > vom Rath was not the reason for the Crystal Night outburst. Vom Rath
> > was still alive when the pogrom began.
> >
> >
> >
> > These were methodical thugs and not enraged citizens
> > wpe102.jpg (1793 bytes) Well organized and widespread incidents began
> > on the evening of 9 November. Groups of generally five or six young
> > men, armed with bars and clubs, went down the streets smashing store
> > windows. They were not Jew-hating SA men, enraged over the murder of a
> > German diplomat. They operated too methodically to have been motivated
> > by anger.
> >
> > They carried out their work without any apparent emotion. Nonetheless,
> > it was their destruction
> > that encouraged certain other individuals from the lowest social
> > classes to become a mob and continue the destruction.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > All one can learn from history writers is that "all" synagogues were
> > demolished and that "all" shop windows were destroyed. Aside from this
> > vague description, one is given almost no details.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jews fought off attacks
> >
> >
> > History writers tell us that during the Crystal Night all the Jews were
> > frightened, meekly accepted whatever happened to them and watched the
> > destruction of their property with no resistance. The contrary is true.
> > While going through the files on this subject, I found many documents
> > which report precisely just the opposite of what is claimed. The fact
> > is that in many cases Jews and their German neighbors fought together
> > against the attackers, pushing them down staircases. Street mobs were
> > beaten up and chased away in more than one case.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Police on side of Jews
> >
> > SA officers stood watch preventing attacks
> >
> > Police and Party officials were generally on the side of the Jews. Some
> > Jewish community leaders went to police stations the next morning and
> > asked the police to investigate the damage done to their synagogues.
> > The resulting police reports are still available in the files today.
> > wpeEF.jpg (4518 bytes)
> >
> >
> >
> > Jews weren't phased by attacks
> > wpeF7.jpg (5870 bytes) Also contrary to what we have been told, most
> > Jews were not directly affected by these events. In Berlin, for
> > example, all of the teachers and pupils of the city's largest Jewish
> > school, which served the entire Berlin area, appeared in their classes
> > the next morning without having noticed anything unusual during the
> > previous night.
> >
> > Heinemann Stern, the Jewish principal of that school, wrote in his
> > postwar memoirs that he noticed a burning synagogue on his way to the
> > school on the morning after the Crystal Night, but he thought it was
> > just an accidental fire.
> >
> > It was only after he arrived at the school that he received a telephone
> > call informing him of the destruction of the previous night. He then
> > went on with his classes of the day and only during the first recess
> > did he take the trouble to inform the entire student body about what
> > had happened.
> >
> > Jewish historians rewrote history
> >
> > Historians wrote: "Every single Jew was beaten, chased, robbed,
> > insulted and humiliated. The SA tore the Jews from their beds,
> > mercilessly beat them in their apartments and then ... chased them
> > almost to death ... Blood flowed everywhere."
> >
> > [9] Is it conceivable that thousands of Jewish children would be have
> > been sent to school by their parents on the morning after that fateful
> > night if the attacks against Jews had been so horrific or extensive?
> > Would any parents have let their children go to school if they had
> > thought there was even the slightest danger of them being attacked by
> > roving gangs of SA men? I think the answer is clearly no!
> >
> >
> >
> > Who Could the Provocateurs Have Been?
> >
> > In the wake of the Crystal Night, almost everyone wanted to know who
> > the culprits were. Dr. Goebbels expressed his suspicion that a secret
> > organization must have instigated the entire affair. He simply could
> > not believe that anything so well organized could have been a
> > spontaneous popular outburst.
> >
> > Apparently to avoid internal wrangling and the harm that this would do
> > to their public image, an investigation to determine the instigators
> > never took place. Hitler believed that Dr. Goebbels, his closest
> > confidant and the one man he could never abandon, had been the
> > instigator.
> >
> > The only persons actually punished were individual SA men who had
> > participated directly in the pogrom and been accused in German courts
> > of murder, assault, looting or other criminal acts by Jewish or German
> > witnesses to these crimes. But before any of these cases ever actually
> > came to trail, Hitler issued a special decree ordering the postponement
> > of all such cases until after the accused individuals were first
> > prosecuted by the Supreme Party Court, an internal court concerned with
> > discipline within the National Socialist Party organization.
> >
> >
> > Mystery phone calls to local town officials
> > wpe103.jpg (1679 bytes) Several district and local Party leaders
> > (Kreisleiters and Ortsgruppenleiters) were awakened from their sleep in
> > the middle of the night by telephone calls. Someone claiming to be from
> > the regional Party headquarters or the regional Party propaganda bureau
> > (Gauleitung or Gaupropagandaleitung) would ask what was happening in
> > the official's town or city. If the Party official answered "Nothing,
> > everything is quiet," the telephone caller would then say in German
> > slang that he had received an order to the effect that the Jews were
> > going to get it tonight and that the respective official should carry
> > out the order.
> >
> > In most cases the Party leader, disturbed from his sleep, did not even
> > understand what had happened. Some simply dismissed the call as a joke
> > and went back to bed.
> >
> > Others called back the office from where the telephone voice had
> > pretended to be calling. If they managed to reach someone in charge,
> > they were often told that nobody knew anything about such a call. But
> > if they reached only a lower official they were often told: "Well, if
> > you got that order, you'd better go ahead and do what you were told."
> > These telephone calls caused considerable confusion. All this came out
> > months later during the trials conducted by the Supreme Party Court.
> > The Chief Judge concluded that in every case a misunderstanding had
> > arisen in one link or other of the chain of command. But when they were
> > confronted with apparently genuine orders to organize demonstrations
> > against the Jews that night, most of the Party leaders had simply not
> > known what to do.
> >
> >
> >
> > Obviously a group of centrally organized thugs
> >
> >
> > The pattern of seemingly sporadic anti-Jewish incidents in small towns,
> > followed only later by a carefully planned outburst in many large
> > cities throughout Germany, clearly suggests the work of a centrally
> > organized group of well-trained agents. Even shortly after the Crystal
> > Night, many leading Party officials suspected that the entire affair
> > had been centrally coordinated. Significantly, even Hermann Graml, the
> > only West German historian who has written in detail about the Crystal
> > Night, carefully distinguished between provocateurs and people who were
> > simply carried away by their emotions and spontaneously took part in
> > the riot and destruction.
> >
> >
> >
> > The timing was perfect
> >
> > Most party officials were at a commemoration at the Alte Rathaus in
> > Munich
> >
> > wpeF5.jpg (5381 bytes)
> >
> >
> > Munich on the Ninth of November
> > While all this was happening across the Reich, a special annual
> > commemoration was being held in Munich. Fifteen years earlier, on 9
> > November 1923, a movement led by Adolph Hitler, Erich von Ludendorff (a
> > leading First World War General), and two major figures in the Bavarian
> > government tried to depose the legal government and take responsibility
> > themselves as a new national government. wpeF6.jpg (2743 bytes)
> >
> >
> > Feldherrnhalle
> > wpeF1.jpg (8854 bytes) The uprising or putsch was put down and 16
> > rebels were shot down next to the Feldherrnhalle, a famous old monument
> > building in central Munich. Accordingly, the 9th of November had been
> > commemorated every year since 1933 as the memorial day for the martyred
> > heroes of the National Socialist movement. Adolph Hitler and the Party
> > veterans, as well as all of the Gauleiters (regional Party leaders) met
> > every year in Munich for the occasion. Hitler would usually deliver a
> > speech to a select audience of Party veterans at the famous
> > Buergerbraeukeller restaurant on the evening of the 8th.
> >
> > Hitler and veterans reenact
> >
> > On the morning of the 9th Hitler and his veteran comrades would reenact
> > the 1923 "March to the Feldherrnhalle."
> >
> >
> > wpeF7.jpg (3902 bytes)
> >
> >
> > wpeF0.jpg (3689 bytes) SS ceremony
> >
> > On the evening of the 9th the Fuehrer always held an informal dinner at
> > the Old Town Hall ("Alte Rathaus") with old comrades as well as all the
> > Gauleiters. At midnight young men who were about to enter the SS and
> > the SA were sworn in at the Feldherrnhalle.
> >
> > All of the Gauleiters and other guests participated in this very solemn
> > ceremony. After it was over they left Munich and returned to their
> > homes throughout the Reich.
> >
> >
> > Gaulieters not at posts
> >
> >
> > It is clear that the 9th of November date was chosen very cleverly. The
> > annual commemoration ceremony of that day insured that almost all of
> > the Gauleiters would be away from their home offices when the
> > anti-Jewish demonstrations began. In other words, the actual
> > decision-making responsibilities that were normally carried out by the
> > Gauleiters were temporarily in the hands of lower-ranking individuals
> > with less experience.
> >
> > Between 8 and 10 November, subordinate officials stood in for the
> > Gauleiters who were either in Munich or en route to or from the annual
> > commemoration there. This temporary transfer of decision-making
> > authority is very important because it contributed to much of the
> > subsequent confusion and thus helped the provocateurs. Another
> > contributing factor was the fact that no one expected any trouble. At
> > that time Germany was one of the most peaceful countries in the world.
> >
> >
> > There was no reason to expect any kind of unrest. It was only during
> > dinner at the Old Town Hall that the first sporadic reports of riot and
> > destruction reached Munich from some of the Gauleiter's home offices.
> > At the same time it was learned that Ernst vom Rath had died in Paris
> > from his wounds.
> >
> >
> >
> > What Was Goebbels Doing?
> > wpeF2.jpg (2300 bytes) After the dinner was over, the Fuehrer left at
> > about 9 p.m. and returned to his apartment. Dr. Goebbels then stood up
> > and spoke briefly about the latest news. He informed the audience that
> > vom Rath had died and that, as a result, anti-Jewish demonstrations had
> > spontaneously broken out in two or three places. Goebbels was renowned
> > for his passionate and inspiring speeches. But what he gave that
> > evening was not a speech at all but only a short and very informal
> > announcement.
> >
> >
> >
> > He suggested that the Gauleiters and the head of the SA, Viktor Lutze,
> > should contact their home offices to make sure that peace and order
> > were being maintained.
> >
> >
> > You may have heard the widespread allegation that Goebbels started the
> > Crystal Night pogrom with a fiery speech on that evening of 9 November.
> > This widely accepted story is false. The following facts will clarify
> > this point:
> >
> > As Gauleiter for Berlin, Dr. Goebbels had no authority outside of his
> > Berlin district. Although he was also the Propaganda Minister of the
> > German government, this did not give him any authority over Party
> > officials. Furthermore, he had no authority whatsoever over the SA or
> > the SS.
> >
> >
> > Goebbels understood this damaged the Reich international standing
> > Of all the National Socialist leaders, Dr. Goebbels would have
> > understood better than anyone else the immense damage that an
> > anti-Jewish pogrom would cause for Germany. On the morning of 10
> > November, when he first learned about the extent of the damage and
> > destruction of the previous night, he was furious and shocked at the
> > stupidity of those who had participated.
> >
> > How could a speech given after 9 p.m. on the evening of 9 November have
> > possibly incited a "pogrom" which had already begun the day before when
> > the first provocateurs appeared at municipal and Party offices to
> > persuade officials to take action against the Jews?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gauleiters telephoned subordinates to maintain peace
> > The Gauleiters and the SA commander went to the telephones and called
> > their respective home offices to order their subordinates to do
> > everything necessary to maintain peace and order. They emphasized that
> > under no circumstances must anyone take part in any demonstrations.
> > These telephone instructions were written down at the home offices by
> > whoever was on duty. The orders from each Gauleiter were then passed on
> > by telex to other offices within the Gau or district. These telex
> > messages are still in various records files and are available to anyone
> > who wishes to examine them.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Orders to Stop the Pogrom
> > wpeF5.jpg (3954 bytes) While the Gauleiters were calling their home
> > offices, the head of the SA, Viktor Lutze, ordered all of his immediate
> > subordinates, the SA Gruppenfuehrers, who were together with him in
> > Munich, to call their home offices as well. Lutze ordered that under no
> > circumstances could SA men take part in any demonstrations against
> > Jews, and that furthermore the SA was to intervene to stop any
> > demonstrations already in progress.
> >
> >
> > SA, Viktor Lutze gives orders to protect Jews
> >
> > As a result of these strict orders, SA men began to guard Jewish stores
> > that very night wherever windows had been broken. There is no doubt
> > about this order by Lutze because we have the postwar court testimony
> > of several witnesses confirming it. The SS and the police were given
> > similar orders to restore peace and order.
> > wpeFB.jpg (2954 bytes)
> >
> >
> >
> > Heydrich orders SS to protect Jews
> > wpeFC.jpg (1558 bytes) Himmler ordered Reinhard Heydrich to prevent
> > all destruction of property and to protect Jews against demonstrators.
> > The telex communication of this order still exists. It is in the files
> > of the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg.
> > However, during the Nuremberg trial this telex order was presented in
> > three different forms, with forged amendments to change the original
> > meaning.
> >
> > In my book Feuerzeichen I undertook to restore the original text.
> > wpeED.jpg (6116 bytes)
> >
> >
> > Hitler was furious
> > wpeFE.jpg (2489 bytes) Adolf Hitler joined the midnight celebration at
> > the Feldherrnhalle. It was only after he returned to his apartment
> > about one o'clock in the morning that he learned about the
> > demonstrations which had been taking place in Munich, during which one
> > synagogue had been set on fire. He was furious and immediately ordered
> > the police chief of Munich to come see him. Hitler told him to
> > immediately stop the fire and to make sure that no other outrages took
> > place in Munich. He then called various police and Party officials
> > throughout the Reich to learn the extent of these demonstrations
> >
> > Finally, he ordered a telex message sent to all Gauleiter offices. It
> > read: "By express order from the very highest authority, arson against
> > Jewish businesses or other property must in no case and under no
> > circumstances take place." Synagogues were not specifically mentioned,
> > apparently because Hitler was still unaware of the burning of
> > synagogues, apart from the one in Munich.
> >
> > How Did the SA Get Involved Despite the Orders From Its Own Leaders?
> >
> > According to the records, at least three of the 28 SA Groups did not
> > obey the orders of SA chief Lutze. Instead, they sent out their men to
> > destroy synagogues and Jewish buildings. In effect they did precisely
> > the opposite of what Lutze had ordered. What actually happened is clear
> > from the testimony and evidence presented at postwar trials against
> > former SA men accused of participating in the riot.
> >
> >
> >
> > Provocateurs sent messages to SA Brigade
> > wpeED.jpg (2921 bytes) The trials, held between 1946 and 1952, were
> > based to a large extent on the report of SA Brigade 50 chief Karl Lucke
> > and begins with these words: "On 10 November 1938, at 3 o'clock in the
> > morning, I received the following order: 'By order of the
> > Gruppenfuehrer, all Jewish synagogues within the Brigade district are
> > to be immediately blown up or set on fire'." Lucke then included in his
> > report a listing of synagogues which had been destroyed by members of
> > his Brigade.
> >
> > This report has been cited by the prosecution at the Nuremberg Tribunal
> > and by practically all of the consensus historians ever since as proof
> > that the SA was given orders to destroy Jewish stores and synagogues.
> >
> > Lutze ordered the Group leaders to contact their home offices to stop
> > all anti-Jewish demonstrations, Fust, along with the other SA leaders,
> > did just that. He called his office in Mannheim and passed on the
> > orders he had received from Lutze. The man who was on duty that night
> > at the Mannheim SA office telephone and who received Fust's order
> > confirmed that he understood it and then hung up. But he never passed
> > on the order he had received. Instead, he transmitted precisely the
> > opposite order.
> >
> > Fritsch gets bogus orders
> > wpeF0.jpg (1550 bytes) The normal procedure would have been for the
> > man on duty at the telephone to immediately call the deputy group
> > leader, Lucke, who was in nearby Darmstadt. But instead he called SA
> > Oberfuehrer (senior colonel) Fritsch and asked him to come to the
> > office. Fritsch had a reputation for not being particularly clever.
> > When he arrived, the man who had received the telephone call showed him
> > a small paper slip with a few notes on it which said that the
> > synagogues within the Mannheim SA Group district were to be destroyed.
> >
> > The man who had received the call explained to Fritsch that the order
> > had just arrived from Munich. Slow-minded as he was, Fritsch did not
> > know what to do and called the local Kreisleiter (district Party
> > leader) and his deputy. These two men then arrived at the SA office and
> > discussed the situation, while at the same time the telephone duty man
> > notified other SA leaders, but still not the deputy Group leader Lucke.
> > In the meantime the small paper slip disappeared and the SA men now
> > arriving at the headquarters met only the Kreisleiter, who told them
> > about the order which he thought had come from Munich. No one asked for
> > any further confirmation. The SA men then left to begin the
> > destruction. Hours later, when the whole action was almost finished,
> > the telephone guard finally called Deputy Group Leader Lucke and passed
> > on the false order. He also informed Lucke that the action had already
> > been going on for several hours. Since it was almost all over by this
> > time, Lucke also neglected to ask for confirmation of the order. It was
> > already 3 o'clock in the morning. Lucke then alerted the
> > Standartenfuehrer of his Brigade and carried out the destruction within
> > the Darmstadt district.
> >
> > Mysterious telephone call
> >
> >
> > At 8 o'clock the next morning Lucke sat down and wrote the report which
> > was later cited at the Nuremberg Tribunal. In fact, as already shown,
> > there was no order to commit arson or carry out destruction against any
> > Jewish property from the Gruppenfuehrer in Munich, but only from the
> > telephone guard. Who he was remains a mystery. During the postwar
> > trials against members of this SA unit, none of the judges asked for
> > the name or identity of this telephone guard. This mysterious man was
> > very probably an agent for those who were actually behind the entire
> > Crystal Night Affair.
> >
> >
> > The Fine Imposed on the Jews
> > wpeA9.jpg (11601 bytes) German government and Party officials were
> > furious about what had happened. Hermann Goering, who was responsible
> > for Germany's economy, complained that it would be impossible to
> > replace the special plate glass of the broken store windows because it
> > was not manufactured in Germany. It had to be imported from Belgium and
> > would cost a great deal of precious foreign currency.
> >
> >
> >
> > Reason for fine
> > wpeF8.jpg (3662 bytes) Because of the Jewish boycott against German
> > goods, the Reich was short of foreign exchange currency. Goering
> > therefore decided that because this shortage was caused by the Jews, it
> > was they who would have to pay for the broken glass. He imposed a fine
> > of one billion Reichsmarks on the German Jews.
> >
> > It was certainly unjust to force Jews to pay for damage which they had
> > not caused. Goering understood this. However, in private he justified
> > the fine by citing the fact that the 1933 Jewish declaration of war
> > against Germany was proclaimed in the name of the millions of Jews
> > throughout the world.
> >
> > Therefore they could now help their co-religionists in Germany bear the
> > consequences of the boycott. It should also be pointed out that only
> > German Jews with assets of more than 5,000 Reichsmarks in cash had to
> > contribute to the fine. In 1938, when prices were very low, 5,000
> > Reichsmarks was a small fortune.
> >
> > The Reich confiscated all insurance payments that were to have been
> > paid to Jews whose businesses and homes were looted or destroyed and
> > the Jewish owners were made personally responsible for the cost of all
> > repairs.
> >
> >
> >
> > 'Crystal Night' 1938: The great Anti-German spectacle
> > Ingrid Weckert
> >
> > * Paper Presented to the Sixth International Revisionist
> > Conference.
> >
> >
>
> # Gee, you're really foaming at the mouth with fascist zeal, aren't you?
> So, Jews are vermin who must be eliminated? Start up the gas chambers
> again, as Hitler didn't finish the job?
> Some Russians, Ukrainians, initially welcomed German troops as
> liberators, but soon found out differently, as the Master Race went about
> clearing Slavs out of the way - Jews, communists, gypsies, it didn't
> matter - for Lebensraum.
> As a result, the Soviets so hated the "grey lice" they didn't need
> urging
> to drive them back into the Fatherland.
> The West opened the long-delayed Second Front, and hastened to Berlin -
> but the Russians got there first.
> None of which excuses the crimes of Stalin, and ideological dictatorship
> of those days. But Hitler was a thug off the streets, and seething with
> hatred, for the unilateral Treaty of Versailles, among other things. As a
> Catholic he was already anti-Semitic.
WHAT HEMEANS NOT AS PLIABLE AS OTHER RELIGIONS WITH THEIR PROPAGANDA.
> Hitler and the Nazis got the backing of the Industrialists, who
> preferred
> him to the Communists.
> True, modern-day Israel seems to have learnt its lesson from Hitler, and
> Zionists know God tends to be on the side of the Big Battalions. But they
> forget Hitler's ultimate fate. Those who live by war and hate, die that
> way.
Nuke jap
http://www.helium.com/tm/99996/understand-making-historical-judgements
http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html
http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-brands.html
Boycott Israel baby killers
http://groups.google.com.hk/group/soc.culture.lebanon?start=10hl=zh-TWbefore
"Gnostic" <bardi...@mypacks.net> wrote in message
news:13ncqn7...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Kirk out..." <Blood...@marines.net> wrote in message
> news:pMtdj.113$jJ5...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
> > Creeping Fascism: From Nazi Germany to Post 9/11 America
> >
> > By Ray McGovern, Consortium News.
> >
> > Americans today are seeing the same sheepish submissiveness that
> > characterized Germany after the burning of the Reichstag.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3342999%2C00.html
>
> Sever Plocker - Stalin's Jews
>
> We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were
> Jewish
>
> Published: 12.21.06, 23:35 / Israel Opinion
>
> In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those
> holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of
> Jewish origin. ... In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University
> convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a
> "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil."
> -------------------
>
> Meanwhile,
> The "Jewish world" had a goal of "bringing the Third Reich to its knees",
> in 1933:
>
>
> "Black reconstructs in depressing detail the (Jewish world's) strident
> debates and acrimonious struggles ...while pursuing the increasingly
> unrealistic goal of bringing the Third Reich to its knees. - A.J.
> Sherman,
> New York Times
>
>
>
> The Transfer Agreement is Edwin Black's compelling, award-winning story of
> a
> negotiated arrangement in 1933 between Zionist organizations and the Nazis
> to transfer some 50,000 Jews, and $100 million of their assets, to Jewish
> Palestine in exchange for stopping the worldwide Jewish-led boycott
> threatening to topple the Hitler regime in its first year.
>
>
>
> Edwin Black is the award-winning, New York Times and international
> bestselling investigative author of 56 bestselling editions in 14
> languages
> in 61 countries, as well as scores of newspaper and magazine articles in
> the
> leading publications of the United States, Europe and Israel.
>
>
> http://www.edwinblack.com/
>
> Edward Black ' "The Transfer Agreement."
>
> The boycott of German goods was causing great hardship for the German
> people, but Jews also had to face the possibility of bloody reprisals
> against German Jews, so an agreement [the Haavara Agreement] was made
> between Hitler's government and the Zionists.
>
> The Germans would allow Jews to pay a fee of 15,000 marks to Germany and
> another 15,000 marks to the British colonial government to emigrate to
> Palestine. In return, the Zionists would break the Jewish boycott.
>
> For six years, from 1933 to 1939, German Jews emigrated to Palestine
> through
> this arrangement. Likewise, German goods found markets, and oranges and
> other agricultural products found their way from Palestine to Germany.
>
>
> Edwin Black's research is striking in its dimension and scope. The vast
> uncovering of source material and its extensive use are almost
> overwhelming.
> He succeeds in crystallizing the various aspects of an almost worldwide
> problem into fluid and cohesive analysis. -
> Yoav Gelber, Yad Vashem, Israel Holocaust Memorial
> ------------------------
>
>
> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3342999%2C00.html
>
> Sever Plocker
>
> Stalin's Jews
>
> We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were
> Jewish
>
> Published: 12.21.06, 23:35 / Israel Opinion
>
> Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago,
> between
> the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik
> revolution
> and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The
> All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and
> Sabotage, also known as Cheka.
>
> Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state
> security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few
> years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to
> KGB.
>
> We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible
> for
> in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20
> million,
> including victims of the forced
> collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments,
> executions, and mass death at Gulags.
>
> Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic
> minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers,
> intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who
> were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist
> party itself.
>
> In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall
> Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its
> children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution.
> In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin
> writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed
> internally.
>
> Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds
> without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel
> interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many
> bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were
> deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher
> certificate.
>
> All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the
> former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened to the
> public.
> But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been
> brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The
> Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How
> could
> it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the
> Russians did not settle the score
> with their Stalinist past.
>
> And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever
> hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the
> 20th
> Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander
> of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization
> orders
> and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His
> Jewish
> deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer
> viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as
> chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the
> "bloodthirsty dwarf."
>
> Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his
> Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore
> writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist
> killing
> machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded
> by beautiful, young Jewish women.
>
> Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central
> Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him
> as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in
> Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from
> the
> Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.
>
> Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and
> have
> blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid
> Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's
> chief
> interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.
>
> In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those
> holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of
> Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next
> purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this
> week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of
> mass
> murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews
> too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great
> murderers, among the greatest
> known by modern history.
>
> The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the
> Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this,
> obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet
> people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play
> dumb":
> What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My
> own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be
> considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but
> not
> considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.
>
> Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who
> served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment.
> After all, others will always remind us of their origin.
>
>
>
>
>
And why liberals think we need the new IR laws. -
http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html
http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-brands.html - Boycott Israel baby killers
Keegan is of course, mistaken in the one sense, in that even a cursory study
of Nazi racial laws will have revealed that the Blood Protection Law of 1935
make specific allowances for such cases, and only the general hysteria and
ignorance of what the Nazis actually said and did has allowed people to be
"shocked" by the large number of part Jews serving the Reich.
The phrase "knowing the Nazi regime for what it was" above by Keegan, is
however the real significant part: for indeed, if the Nazis had been mass
murdering, gassing and burning millions of Jews, it is extremely
unlikely that these 150,000 prominent Germans of part Jewish descent, would
have served the Reich at all, never mind having made specific application to
be granted full Aryan status - especially given that there were only
approximately 600,000 full blooded Jews in Nazi Germany.
Very few people realize, that the Warsaw ghetto was polices and administered
by 7,000 Ordnungspolizei, all of whom were Jews. In fact there were no
Germans visible in most of the camps
According to the World Almanach there were 400,000 Jews in germany in 1939.
However thousands of them left for the greener pastures, and it is doubtful
if there were more than 300,000 by the time Hitler started
hounding them.
LINKS THAT WERE BROKEN BY THE HOLOCAUST COSPIRACY OF LIES.
2 SNOWY HAIRED 7 AND 8 YEAR OLD KIDS , A GIRL AND A BOY PLAYING IN THE
CONFUSION THAT WAS EUROPE DURING WWII CAME ACROSS A LARGE BLACK MAN SITTING
VERY QUIETLY AND STARTED TO SPEAK TO HIM AND PLAYFULLY TOUCH HIM.
HE CAME TO LIFE AND CHASED THEM OFF STILL NOT MOVING JUST BY YELLING AND
WAVING HIS ARMS. THE KIDS MOVED TO WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS A SAFE DISTANCE
STILL TEASING HIM AS PLAYFUL STUPID 7 AND 8 YEAROLDS WILL.
THEN THE MAN HAVING APPARENTLY FRIGHTENED THEM OF TO A SAFE DISTANCE BLEW UP
INTO THE AIR SO FRIGHTENING THE 2 KIDS THEY RAN OF IN A PANIC TO TELL THEIR
MOTHER WHO WAS RESTING WITH OTHER REFUGEES .
THAT WAS THE LAST OF THE INCIDENT FOR THE KIDS ANYWAY TILL I WAS TALKING TO
THE RELATIVES NOW GROWN UP ADULTS AND REALISED WHAT HAD POSSIBLY HAPPENED.
WITH AN EXSERVICEMAN FATHER THERE WAS ONE LANDMINE IN WWII THAT I BELIEVE
YOU KNEW YOU HAD TRIGGERED WHEN YOU HEARD THE CLICK. THE NEXT SOUND YOU KNEW
YOU WOULD HEAR WOULD BE THE EXPLOSION WHICH WOULD IN ALL PROBABILITY KILL
YOU.
THAT IS ONE OF A THOUSAND STORIES THAT SHOULD HAVE CEMENTED RELATIONS
BETWEEN AMERICANS AND EUROPEANS IN THAT A LOT OF THE AMERICAN SERVICEMEN
TOOK HOME WIVES FROM EUROPE CEMENTED ON DANGEROUS MEETINGS LIKE THAT
DESCRIBED ABOVE THAT MIGHT HAVE SAVED THE SERVICEMANS LIFE.
HOWEVER THE FIRST THING THE EUROPEAN FOUND ON ARRIVING IN ANY OF THE WESTERN
DEMOCRACIES WAS THAT THE WATER HAD BEEN NICELY MUDDIED SO THAT WHEN YOU
INNOCENTLY CAME OUT WITH THE TRUTH AS YOU KNEW IT IN EUROPE HAVING LIVED
THROUGH IT, YOU WERE TOLD THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
AND HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE NAZIS BECAUSE THE JEWISH GROCERS AUNTY TOLD
HER ALL ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED .
AND YOU WERE IN SOMEONES ELSES COUNTRY INTERMARRIED AND ALL .
YOU
HAD THE SAME FREEDOMS THAT YOU NOW ENJOY IN OUR WESTERN DEMOCRACIES, AND
TURNED ON THE PEOPLE AND COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE, Germans , TO SHOW YOUR
SOLIDARITY WITH JEWS/ZIONISTS.
THERE WERE JEWS WHO WERE LOYAL GERMAN CITIZENS AND WORKED WITH THE GERMANS .
Jews in German army
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html
http://judaism.about.com/b/a/039042.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/675641/posts
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/jewishnazi.html
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERmiltch.htm
http://www.jugendgeschichtswerkstatt.de/strassennamen/fliegerviertel/flieger
viertel.html
http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/gerjews.htm
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/00/03/NSJews.html
Here by a Munich-born historian saluting in moving detail a group of little
known
heroines - the women, nearly all of them German, who opposed Hitler both
before and, more dramatically, during the war.
http://www.new-books-in-german.com/aut2001/book05a.htm
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html
http://www.msnbc.com/news/606092.asp?0si=-&cp1=1
Who has said, America and Israel? I'll pick Israel every time. That is a guy
who was educated, worked in intelligence in the air force in America
http://www.von-waldenburg.com/reviews.html
WOMAN WHO LIVED THROUGH WAR IN GERMANY
HORRORS LET LOOSE BY WAR
http://www.technologyartist.com/unit_731/comments_731.html
http://www.tribalmessenger.org/
PEACE GROUP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
wwii CASUALTIES
TIME ACADEMICS STOPPED JEWS AND SUPPORTERS ENJOYING A GOOD LIVING ON
LIES AND DISHONEST PRACTICES IN CORRUPTING OUR HISTORY WHILE SUPPORTING THE
JAILING OF HONEST ACADEMICS TRYING TO PRESENT AND INCORPORATE THE TRUTH IN
WHAT IS MAINLY OUR HISTORY OF WWII AND NOT THE SOLE PROPERTY OF THE
JEWQW/ZIONIST/ISRAELI CLIQUE TO USE TO SUPPORT FURTHER LIES AND
MISREPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE PRACTICES OF THE ZIONISTS AND SAME GROUP WHO
ARE IN POWER IN ISRAEL.
"Yisroel Markov" <ey.m...@MUNGiname.com> wrote in message
news:c58u72tfjrt2dafgr...@4ax.com...
> UK to Israeli Profs: Class Dismissed
> ------------------------------------
> The weird movement to boycott Israeli academics
> By Ari Paul
NOTHING WEIRD , THE WEIRD IS THE STANDING BACK AND ACTUALLY ALLOWING THE
PAMPERED AND EGOTISTICAL JEWISH/ZIONIST/ISRAELI ACADEMICS BLUFF THEM INTO
NOT CONTRADICTING ALL THE LIES THEY HAVE ACTUALLY MADE A PART OF WWII
HISTORY AND ALLOWED AND SUPPORTED THE JAILING OF JEWISH AND NONJEWISH
HISTORIANS DOING NO MORE THAN THEIR JOB BY MAKING AN HONEST EVALUATION OF
THE HOLOCAUST CLAIMS AS NOT SUPPORTED BY HISTORICAL FACT.
AND IN SO DOING SUPPORTING THE LIES AND PROPAGANDA SPREAD BY ISRAEL AND
SUPPORTERS WHO ARE NOT EITHER LOYAL CITIZENS OR HONEST MEN/WOMEN.
ALLOWING THESE FRAUDS TO ENJOY A GOOD LIVING WHILE ALLOWING HONEST ACADEMICS
TO BE PERSECUTED.
http://www.aldeilis.net/zion/zionhol01.html
The first point to note regarding the appropriation of the history of the
Holocaust by Zionist propaganda is that Zionism without anti-Semitism is
impossible. Zionism agrees with the basic tenet of anti-Semitism, namely
that Jews cannot live with non-Jews.
THE SECOND POINT IS IF THE ZEALOTS ARE SO UNABLE TO ACCEPT CO HABITATION
WITH NONJEWS, THEN THE JEWS /ZIONISTS SHOULD BE OBLIGED TO TAKE THE SAME
ACTION IN SILENCING THEIR AS NON JEWS DO AND ARE CONTINUALLY ASKED TO CHECK
ON THE STRENGHT OF A BIASED INACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF HISTORY TO ELICIT
SYMPATHY AND SUPPORT.
Until the early 1970s two different sets of arithmetic books were used in
Israel. One for the secular schools, employing an inverted "T" sign. In the
early '70's the religious fanatics "converted" the Labor Party to the great
danger of the cross in arithmetic, and from that time, in all Hebrew
elementary schools (and now many high schools as well) the international
plus sign has been forbidden.
Similar development is visible in other areas of education. Teaching the New
Testament was always forbidden, but in the old time conscientious teachers
of history used to circumvent the prohibition, by organizing seminars or
sending the students to libraries (not the school libraries, of course).
About 10 years ago there was a wave of denouncing such teachers. One in
Jerusalem was almost sacked, for advising her history pupils, who were
studying the history of Jews in Palestine around 30-40 AD, that it would be
a good thing if they would read a few chapters of the New Testament as a
historical aid. She retained her post only after humbly promising not to do
this again.
Nonetheless, it came into force on April 1, 1978, prohibiting the offering
of ��material inducement�� for a person to change his religion. A material
inducement could be something as minor as the giving of a Bible
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/rel-christians.html
AND WE ALLOW ACADEMICS WITH THE MOST BARBARIC OF ISRAEL/ZIONIST/JEWISH
PHILOSOPHIES HOLD IMPORTANT POSITIONS IN OUR INSTITUTIONS PASSING ON THIS
OPINION OF HATE AND SUPPRESSION.
The Israel Lobby John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
http://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/6973
HOW TO KEEP ACADEMICS QUIET
The Real Issue Is Israel's Human Rights Record:
A statement by Norman G. Finkelstein upon publication of Beyond Chutzpah
Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard University is currently best known for
his advocacy of the "most excruciating" torture against terrorist suspects
such as a "needle being shoved under the fingernails." The alleged purpose
of this torture is to extract a truthful confession but its real
consequence, as human rights organizations have pointed out, is to produce
whatever statements are necessary to end the suffering. For 15 months
WALK OPENLY OVER OUR , I HOPE, STRONGLY HELD BELIEFS OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH
AND ASSOCIATION. AND RIGHTS THAT THEY HAVE NEVER INCORPORATED OR PRACTISED
IN ANY STATE IN WHICH THEY HAVE HAD A POSITION OF CONTROL.
WARNING To People in Austria; Belgium; France; Germany;
Israel; Spain and Switzerland. You can be fined,imprisoned or both for
discussing the topics set forth in this article.
"torresdD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZQwPh.16870$PL....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
� http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/843805.html
In the service of the Jewish state
By Shraga Elam and Dennis Whitehead
In the late 1940s, Walther (Walter) Rauff, an SS officer who was
responsible for the murder of at least 100,000 people and was wanted by the
Allies as a war criminal, was employed by the Israeli secret service.
Instead of bringing him to justice it paid him for his services and helped
him escape to South America. Documents of the U.S. Central Intelligence
Agency (CIA) that have been released over the past several years show that
the Americans were aware that Rauff's case was not exceptional.
�
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/843805.html
> In the service of the Jewish state
>
> By Shraga Elam and Dennis Whitehead
>
>
> In the late 1940s, Walther (Walter) Rauff,
> an SS officer who was responsible for the
> murder of at least 100,000 people and was
> wanted by the Allies as a war criminal,
> was employed by the Israeli secret service.
>
> Instead of bringing him to justice it
> paid him for his services and helped
> him escape to South America.
>
> Documents of the U.S.
> Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
> that have been released over the past
> several years show that the Americans
> were aware that Rauff's case was not
> exceptional.
>
> A CIA memorandum dated March 24, 1950
> describes the relations between the
> Israel agent Edmond (Ted) Cross,
> whose name is deleted on this document,
> and a Nazi named Janos Walberg:
>
> "Subject's engagement be [sic]
> the Israeli Intelligence Service
> would fit into the picture as
> revealed by talks with X with
> [Edmond (Ted) Cross a.k.a. Magen or Crowder]
> consisting in the utilization of former Nazi
> elements for observation and penetration in
> the Arab countries.
>
> The attempt to send the well-known
> former SS Colonel Walter Rauff to
> Egypt having failed,
>
> the Israeli Service with all
> probability (however this has
> not yet been confirmed) had
> engaged Subject [Walberg],
> whose sentiments and past
> would arouse no suspicions
> in Egypt that he is a
> Jewish agent."
>
> An earlier document,
> from February 1950, states that
> Cross helped Rauff obtain the
> necessary papers for immigration
> to South America,
>
> even though the attempt to
> send him to Egypt had failed.
>
> Why, though, did Israel help Rauff?
>
> This document provides a hint:
>
> "It is not improbable that Subject's
> presence in Syria was in connection
> with a mission for the Israel[i] service."
>
> Rauff was indeed in Syria,
> serving as military adviser
> to President Hosni Zaim,
> who sought a peace agreement with Irsael.
>
> Rauff was forced to leave
> after Zaim was deposed in
> a military coup.
>
> The mission Rauff was to have
> carried out in Egypt is not known,
> but his connection with Cross may
> supply more than a hint.
>
> According to research by Ruth Kimche,
> a former Mossad employee,
> Cross was sent in July 1948,
> as the War of Independence raged,
> to assassinate several key figures
> in Egypt with the help of a group
> of Jews.
>
> At the last minute the mission was called off.
>
> Cross returned to Egypt in September,
> but again the plan was not executed,
> probably because he became entangled
> in a love affair with the Egyptian
> Princess Amina Nur a-Din and had
> to leave the country.
>
> According to Kimche,
> "The whole story is very
> reminiscent of the Lavon
> Affair of the 1950s,
>
> except that fortunately for
> them the 1948 plan was not
> implemented,
>
> apparently thanks to
> the Egyptian princess."
>
> But the plan was not jettisoned, either.
>
> In 1949, as the U.S. documents show,
> Cross wanted to sent Rauff to Egypt.
>
> According to another
> document in Rauff's CIA file,
> Rauff did not reach Egypt,
> but a 1953 memorandum quotes
> the U.S. ambassador to Egypt
> as saying that a man named
> Rauff was in the country.
>
> True,
> the memorandum describes this Rauff as a Pole,
> but it also notes that he organized the
> extermination of Jews in Poland,
> making it very likely that the
> reference is to the famous
> Nazi officer.
>
> Rauff was born in 1906.
>
> He served in the German
> Navy from the age of 18.
>
> In 1937 he was dismissed for
> conduct unbecoming an officer
> due to adultery.
>
>
> A close friend and fellow former naval officer,
> Reinhard Heydrich, who was then deputy commander
> of the SS under Heinrich Himmler,
> helped get him into the Nazi organization.
>
> Initially Rauff served in
> SS headquarters in Berlin.
>
> After the conquest of Norway in 1940
> he headed the security police there
> for three months.
>
> That year he was reinstated in the Navy,
> at his request, and commanded a fleet of
> minesweepers, but in 1941 Heydrich
> summoned him back to SS headquarters.
>
> When Heydrich was appointed
> governor of occupied Czechoslovakia,
> Rauff accompanied him to Prague as
> his technical assistant.
>
> He returned to Berlin in June 1942,
> after Heydrich's assassination by
> the Czech resistance.
>
> Rauff was appointed head of
> the SS Technical Department
> and was responsible for the
> project of extermination using
> gas vans.
>
> After Jews and others were
> herded into the back of a gas van,
> the vehicle was sealed and the
> exhaust pipe introduced into the
> back.
>
> When the engine was turned
> on the fumes killed everyone
> in the back of the vehicle.
>
> Between 97,000 and 200,000 people,
> most of them Jews, were murdered
> in this way.
>
> This method of mass murder
> was too slow and cumbersome
> for the Nazis, however,
> who went on to develop the
> gas chambers using Zyklon B
> as the killing agent.
>
> From July 1942 until May 1943,
> Rauff also commanded the Einsatzkommando
> (a unit of the Einsatzgruppen,
> the mobile killing squads that
> were in charge of annihilating Jews)
> in North Africa and was responsible
> for concentrating the Jews in Tunisia.
>
> In July 1943,
> after a brief stay in Berlin,
> he was made commander of the
> Einsatzkommando in Corsica,
>
> and from September 1943 until
> the end of the war was the SS
> Kommandant in Milan.
>
> As such,
> he took part in the secret
> negotiations that led to the
> surrender of the Nazis in
> northern Italy.
>
> Rauff,
> unlike other Nazis who
> participated in the talks,
> was arrested by the Allies
> on April 30, 1945.
>
> In 1947 he escaped and was
> recruited for Syrian intelligence
> by Captain Akram Tabara,
> who gave his name as
> Dr. John Homsi.
>
> Rauff advised President Hosni Zaim
> in Syria and was arrested on the day
> of the coup against him.
>
> Rauff managed to convince his
> captors that he was only an
> adviser and had no command powers;
> he was released but ordered to
> leave the country.
>
> According to one of the
> versions in the CIA files,
> Rauff was suspected of ties
> to "subversive Communist activity,"
> as the agent of a German named Von Lipkau.
>
> After Rauff's expulsion from Syria,
> he was supposed to accompany Lipkau
> to India to disseminate Communist
> propaganda.
>
> According to one CIA report,
> the mission was aborted because
> Lipkau remained in Tel Aviv due
> to other commitments.
>
> From Damascus Rauff went to Beirut,
> and from there to Italy.
>
> With the assistance of Israeli,
> and apparently also British
> intelligence,
>
> he sailed for South
> America in December 1949.
>
> He settled in Quito, the capital of Ecuador.
>
> A 1953 report put him in Buenos Aires,
> where he probably headed an
> anti-Communist group.
>
> In 1958 Rauff moved to Chile,
> obtaining permanent residency
> status there a year later.
>
> He became a cattle and fish
> merchant and was described
> as a rancher and an industrialist.
>
> His son, also named Walter,
> was accepted to the Chilean
> naval academy and was the
> protege of Chief of Staff
> General Carlos Prats,
>
> a supporter of the socialist
> President Salvador Allende.
>
> The son denies that his
> father ever worked for Israel.
>
> On December 19, 1962,
> Rauff was arrested in Chile
> after West Germany requested
> his extradition.
>
> Chile's Supreme Court refused
> the request and released Rauff.
>
> Allende's election as president
> did not change the situation:
>
> in a friendly letter to Nazi
> hunter Simon Wiesenthal Allende
> wrote that he could not reverse
> the court's 1962 decision.
>
> In September 1973,
> Allende was killed in a military
> coup against his democratically
> elected government.
>
> A few months later,
> the French paper Le Monde
> reported that Rauff was
> appointed head of Chile's
> intelligence service;
>
> the report was denied
> by the Chilean government.
>
> Ten years later, in January 1984,
> Chile turned down an extradition
> request for Rauff from Israel's
> Justice Ministry.
>
> A month later,
> West Germany repeated
> its extradition request.
>
> Chile said the case would
> be reopened only if it were
> presented with evidence of
> new crimes.
>
> Extraditing Rauff would not
> serve any public interest in
> Chile, the court said,
>
> since he had lived in the
> country for many years and
> his behavior was always
> beyond reproach.
>
> The U.S. government got into the act,
> emphasizing to Chile its conviction
> that Nazi criminals must face trial.
>
> The Santiago government came
> under heavy international
> pressure to extradite Rauff.
>
> Both President Ronald Reagan
> and British Prime Minister
> Margaret Thatcher addressed
> the issue in 1984,
>
> but their comments did not
> impress Chilean dictator
> Augusto Pinochet.
>
> The Nazi hunter Beate Klarsfeld
> traveled to Chile to organize
> protests over the issue and was
> arrested twice for disturbing
> the peace.
>
> Then director general of Israel's
> Foreign Ministry, David Kimche,
> visited Santiago in 1984.
>
> The press reported that he
> urged his hosts to deport Rauff,
> whom he described as one of the
> major war criminals living in a
> Western country.
>
> His wife, Ruth Kimche,
> said on behalf of her
> husband that he does
> not recall this;
>
> they were in Chile on a private visit,
> she says.
>
> The sincerity of the Israeli
> efforts toward Rauff's capture
> can be gauged from the fact that
> already in 1979 Israel sold patrol
> boats to Chile and then overhauled
> Chilean war planes,
> and in 1984 was still
> assisting with their
> maintenance.
>
> Rauff died of lung cancer in May 1984.
> The statement issued by the Israeli
> embassy sounded like a sigh of relief:
>
> "The problem with Mr. Rauff
> is now solved. God has tried him."
>
> The fact that Rauff supplied
> intelligence to Israel has
> been published before,
> but for some reason the
> reports did not generate
> a public debate over the
> moral implications of Israel's
> providing protection to a major
> Nazi criminal,
>
> who was the subject of an
> international campaign by
> Nazi hunters Simon Wiesenthal
> and Beate Klarsfeld to bring
> him to trial.
>
> Similarly, the renowned U.S.
> Holocaust researcher Richard
> Breitman,
>
> who as director of historical research
> for the Nazi War Criminal Records
> Interagency Working Group reviewed
> Rauff's CIA file,
>
> chose to ignore information
> indicating that Israeli
> intelligence systematically
> employed Nazis in Arab countries.
>
> According to CIA records
> Rauff's handler was Ted Cross,
> whose Hebrew name was David Magen.
>
> Cross was recruited in 1948 for
> clandestine activity by Asher
> Ben-Natan,
>
> director of operations in the
> Foreign Ministry's Political
> Department,
>
> which served as the precursor to the Mossad.
>
> Cross was fluent in several languages
> and had served in British intelligence
> in World War II.
>
> According to an article by Gil Meltzer
> in the daily Yedioth Ahronoth from
> a year ago, Cross -
>
> who was from a wealthy
> Jewish Budapest family
> named Gross -
>
> was an international adventurer,
> a hedonist and a womanizer.
>
> To pay for his flashy lifestyle,
> he dealt in drugs.
>
> When Israel discovered that he
> had also sold his services as
> an agent to Egypt -
> for the very handsome sum
> of $20,000 -
>
> he was arrested and sentenced
> to a lengthy prison term.
>
> After his release he went into
> the restaurant business and,
> among other things, helped
> found the Wimpy's hamburger
> chain.
>
> Can the Israeli government be
> blamed for the ties between
> Cross and Rauff,
>
> or was this a private initiative
> by the double agent?
>
> The CIA, it turns out,
> did not know some important
> details about Rauff's connections
> with Israeli intelligence.
>
> In Passover of 1993,
> Shlomo Nakdimon published an
> nterview with Shalhevet Freier
> in Yedioth Ahronoth.
>
> In the late 1940s Freier was a
> branch director in the Foreign
> Ministry's Political Department,
> and in the 1970s he chaired the
> Israel Atomic Energy Commission.
>
> He has since died.
>
> In the interview he related
> how he had recruited Rauff in Italy,
> after friends in the Italian Foreign
> Ministry tipped him off about the new
> arrival.
>
> Rauff was using an alias at the time.
>
> According to Freier, then,
> it was the Political Department
> that employed Rauff;
>
> there is no mention of Cross in his interview.
>
>
Israeli stats
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Jews and Palestinians genetically similar.
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html
War without end
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=39590
Yes and you have no quarrel with the US?
They dont have to, they use their army to shoot, run over and mistreat
physically and sexually helpless children. What can a Palestinian do when
the mighty money contributing yanks cannot protect their citizens.
http://www.thenausea.com/elements/thenotforgotten/rachel/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/79400p-72974c.html
One guy gets 10 years, the other gets a raise and promotion??
And the chimp smirks on
_ HYPERLINK "http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print.php?sid=26276" __
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print.php?sid=26276
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/01AA7ECA-7018-447B-A10D-9E4139D4788A.
htm
_
American and Australian shot by Israelis
Chris McGreal talks to the relatives of three British and American victims
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1066817,00.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1066817,00.html
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/
http://www.thenausea.com/elements/thenotforgotten/rachel/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,916299,00.html
http://www.omjp.org/rachelphotos.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8853425952359751341&q=Palestinian+p
eople
http://www.nogw.com/israeliatrocities.html
http://www.palestinefacts.org/index.php
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/story-2003112917164320.htm
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/IsraelsTortureBan.html
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0197/9701007.htm
Christian homes being knocked down???
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/05/1607911.php
(Wanderer, Oct. 12, 1989, p. 7; National Review, March 16, 1992, p. S-5).
Israeli soldiers can beat up a priest on the West Bank, then shoot up his
church during Mass, and only the Catholic press takes note...If Christians
had done such a thing to a synagogue, anywhere, it would have been
front-page news, everywhere. (Wanderer, Oct. 12, 1989, p. 7; National
Review, March 16, 1992, p. S-5).
Farmers harassed and shot in israel
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3757004.stm
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=53042
Zionist settler deliberately hits and kills Palestinian old man
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/article_3293.shtml
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/article_3396.shtml
http://judicial-inc.biz/School_shooting.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.nationalism.white/msg/20deae4bedc378ab?q=&rnum=1
�
In a letter to the conference host, UNESCO Director-General Koichiro
Matsuura,
the protesters said the Wiesenthal center, "under the deceitful cover of the
struggle against anti-Semitism, is on the contrary encouraging intolerance
and
racism in our societies."
Jon and David Kimche
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html
The SS was particularly enthusiastic in its support for Zionism. An internal
June 1934 SS position paper urged active and wide-ranging support for
Zionism by the government and the Party as the best way to encourage
emigration of Germany's Jews to Palestine.
The Jewish Agency delegation headed by Golda Meir (Meirson) ignored a German
offer to allow Jews to emigrate to other countries for $250 a head, and the
other Jewish groups made no effort to influence the United States and the
32 other countries attending the conference to allow immigration of German
and Austrian Jews.
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Jews-not-for-Judaism/Jews-who-helped-nazis-hitler.htm
Marlon Brando.
http://www.theunjustmedia.com/ben%20stein%20on%20jewish%20media%20control.htm
If one wants to exterminate an entire race, one would start with the leaders
first and
Why did Rabbi Baeck never leave the Third Reich
On March 24, 1933, the Jewish World Congress, then under the leadership of
Chaim
Holocaust Calendar
Jewish dominance
Rabbi to Publish Book on Jewish Supremacy
http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/01/20/rabbi-to-publish-book-on-jewish-supremacy.htm
... One is Rabbi Saadya Grama, author of an upcoming book "On the Exalted
Nature of Israel and Understanding ... Written by Rabbi Saadya Grama - an
alumnus of Beth Medrash Govoha, the ...
more hits from:
ttp://atheism.about.com/b/a/057831.htm?terms=published+book - 25 KB
The Jews declared war against Germany
On March 24, 1933, the Jewish World Congress, then under the leadership of
Chaim Weizman, declared war on Germany on behalf of the Jews of the world.
http://www.corax.org/revisionism/misc/encampment.html
http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ds9.htm
http://www.rense.com/general45/zzo.htm
The Zionist Jewish Role In - Causing World War II
"In 1941, a Jewish writer, Theodor N. Kaufman, wrote Germany Must Perish.
Kaufman set out a plan for the total destruction of the German population by
a very simple method: the mass sterilisation of all German men and women
between the age of puberty and sixty years."
From a pre-1993 edition of John Tyndall's Spearhead magazine
12-9-3
http://www.corax.org/revisionism/misc/encampment.html
Immediately after Japan declared war on the United States of America, the
order was issued to round up all Americans of Japanese ancestry and imprison
them in large camps. A declaration of war entitles any nation to imprison
its enemy and their sympathizers.
On March 24, 1933, the Jewish World Congress, then under the leadership of
Chaim Weizman, declared war on Germany on behalf of the Jews of the world.
The basic question arises; what were the Germans supposed to do with their
large Jewish population?
� The Jewish Agency delegation headed by Golda Meir (Meirson) ignored a
German
offer to allow Jews to emigrate to other countries for $250 a head, and the
other Jewish groups made no effort to influence the United States and the
32 other countries attending the conference to allow immigration of German
and Austrian Jews.
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Jews-not-for-Judaism/Jews-who-helped-nazis-hitler.htm
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Dissenters1/Zundel1/transport.htm
� England's Lord Shawcross, her most famous legal mind, stated in
1984. ''I have come to the realization that Hitler did not want war. It was
us who declared war .'', etc. ad nauseum. His admission of historical truth
was subsequently swept under the rug, never to be repeated in public print
again.
http://americandefenseleague.com/whyhitlr.htm Why Hitler Came to Power:
One Rabbi's Explanation - By Rabbi Dr. Manfred Reifer - We played with the
most holy possessions of the people and at times made fun of all that was
sacred to the nation.
http://www.heretical.com/mkilliam/wwii.html
That second war was later made certain, not by the intentions of Hitler but
by the determination of his eternal enemies to destroy the new Germany that
he had created.
By the Treaty of Versailles on 28 June 1919 and the Treaty of St. Germain on
20 September of the same year, the German people were thoroughly humiliated.
The British Prime Minister, Lloyd George, wrote:
'The international bankers swept statesmen, politicians, journalists and
jurists all to one side and issued their orders with the imperiousness of
absolute monarchs.'
However, the Four Nations Pact was not to be. The Jews put an end to this,
for on 7 November 1938, a few weeks after the Munich Agreement and shortly
before the journey to Paris of the German Foreign Minister, Von Ribbentrop,
the Polish Jew, Herschel Feibel Grynszpan murdered the German Third
Secretary of State, Ernst von Rath, in the German Embassy in Paris. The five
bullets fired were the logical result of the Jews' declaration of war on
Germany of March 1933 and put an end to the effort being made to explain and
extend the importance of the Munich Agreement and the revision of the Treaty
of Versailles.
This assassination provoked anti-Jewish riots in Germany, with the burning
of synagogues and the looting and burning of Jewish shops. The anti-Jewish
riots inflamed public opinion in Great Britain and the USA against
Chamberlain's efforts to relieve Anglo-German tension. In the United States
Germans were assaulted and persecuted. The Jews began leaving Germany.
The Paris magazine L'Ami du Peuple wrote about them:
'These people fled from Germany because they attempted to set up a rule of
fire and blood and to let loose the horrors of civil war and universal
chaos.'
The American Secretary of State, James Forrestal, who later died in
mysterious circumstances, wrote in his Forrestal Diaries (Cassel and Co.,
London 1952):
'Have played golf with Joe Kennedy [US Ambassador in Britain, father of
President John Kennedy]. According to him, Chamberlain declared that Zionism
and world Jewry have obliged England to enter the war.'
The Jew, Schlomo Asch, in a pep talk to French troops in the line in Le
Nouvelles Litteraires (10 February 1940) wrote:
'This is our war and you are fighting it for us. Even if we Jews are not
bodily in the trenches we are nevertheless morally with you.'
On 8 October 1942 Sentinel magazine stated unequivocally:
'The Second World War is being fought for the defence and fundamentals of
Judaism.'
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=3&ar=201
NEW YORK, Aug. 29 (JTA) �?" Since 1996, Jewish groups and their lawyers have
gone to the mat with the likes of the Germans, the Swiss and the French,
extracting $9 billion in restitution for the evil wrought in Europe by
Naziforces and their collaborators.
http://www.geocities.com/truth4ever123/41.htm
In the magazine Kefonium ;Jerusalem no 14 Feb 1982 page 49-59
Iraq that country which is rich with its petrol resources and have a lot of
internal struggles is
located in the frontline with Israel and its decomposition is critical for
Israel may more than
defeating Syria as Iraq resembles on short range the biggest threat for
Israel in the area .
No Documentary Evidence
Many thousands of secret German documents dealing with Auschwitz were
confiscated after the war by the Allies. Not a single one refers to a
policy or program of extermination. In fact, the extermination story cannot
be reconciled with the documentary evidence.
Many Jewish Inmates Unable to Work
It is often claimed that all Jews at Auschwitz who were unable to work were
immediately killed. Jews who were too old, young, sick, or weak were
supposedly gassed on arrival, and only those who could be worked to death
were temporarily kept alive.
But the evidence shows that, in fact, a very high percentage of the Jewish
inmates were not able to work, and were nevertheless not killed. For
example, an internal German telex message dated Sept. 4, 1943, from the
chief of the Labor Allocation department of the SS Economic and
Administrative Main Office (WVHA), reported that of 25,000 Jewish inmates
in Auschwitz, only 3,581 were able to work, and that all of the remaining
Jewish inmates -- some 21,500, or about 86 percent -- were unable to work.
[9]
This is also confirmed in a secret report dated April 5, 1944, on "security
measures in Auschwitz" by Oswald Pohl, head of the SS concentration camp
system, to SS chief Heinrich Himmler. Pohl reported that there was a total
of 67,000 inmates in the entire Auschwitz camp complex, of whom 18,000 were
hospitalized or disabled. In the Auschwitz II camp (Birkenau), supposedly
the main extermination center, there were 36,000 inmates, mostly female, of
whom "approximately 15,000 are unable to work." [10]
These two documents simply cannot be reconciled with the Auschwitz
extermination story.
The evidence shows that Auschwitz-Birkenau was established primarily as a
camp for Jews who were not able to work, including the sick and elderly, as
well as for those who were temporarily awaiting assignment to other camps.
That's the considered view of Dr. Arthur Butz of Northwestern University,
who also says that this was the reason for the unusually high death rate
there. [11]
Princeton University history professor Arno Mayer, who is Jewish,
acknowledges in his 1989 book about the "final solution" that more Jews
perished at Auschwitz as a result of typhus and other "natural" causes than
were executed. [12]
Anne Frank
Perhaps the best known Auschwitz inmate was Anne Frank, who is known around
the world for her famous diary. But few people know that thousands of Jews,
including Anne and her father, Otto Frank, "survived" Auschwitz.
The 15-year-old girl and her father were deported from the Netherlands to
Auschwitz in September 1944. Several weeks later, in the face of the
advancing Soviet army, Anne was evacuated along with many other Jews to the
Bergen-Belsen camp, where she died of typhus in March 1945.
Her father came down with typhus in Auschwitz and was sent to the camp
hospital to recover. He was one of thousands of sick and feeble Jews who
were left behind when the Germans abandoned the camp in January 1945,
shortly before it was overrun by the Soviets. He died in Switzerland in
1980.
If the German policy had been to kill Anne Frank and her father, they would
not have survived Auschwitz. Their fate, tragic though it was, cannot be
reconciled with the extermination story.
Allied Propaganda
The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements
of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any evidence of
extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about
gassings at Auschwitz were widespread.
Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and
German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people
were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an
important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast
to Europe by Allied radio stations. [13]
Survivor Testimony
Former inmates have confirmed that they saw no evidence of extermination at
Auschwitz.
An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp experiences
in a Toronto District Court in March 1988. She was interned in
Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having sexual relations with a Polish forced
laborer. On the train trip to the camp, a Gypsy woman told her and the
others that they would all be gassed at Auschwitz.
Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go into
a large concrete room without windows to take a shower. The terrified women
were sure that they were about to die. But then, instead of gas, water came
out of the shower heads.
Auschwitz was no vacation center, Maria confirmed. She witnessed the death
of many fellow inmates by disease, particularly typhus, and quite a few
committed suicide. But she saw no evidence at all of mass killings,
gassings, or of any extermination program. [14]
A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary
in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily.
She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of "gas
chambers" during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing
stories only later. [15]
Inmates Released
More than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,
and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. In
addition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences were
released, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz had
actually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans have
released inmates who "knew" what was happening there?
Himmler Orders Death Rate Reduced
In response to the deaths of many inmates due to disease, especially typhus,
the German authorities responsible for the camps ordered firm
counter-measures.
The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated Dec.
28, 1942, to Auschwitz and the other concentration camps. It sharply
criticized the high death rate of inmates due to disease, and ordered
that "camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly
reduce the death rate in the various camps." Furthermore, it ordered:
"The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the nutrition
of the prisoners and, in cooperation with the administration, submit
improvement recommendations to the camp commandants ... The camp doctors
are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor places
are improved as much as possible."
Finally, the directive stressed that "the Reichsfuhrer SS [Heinrich Himmler]
has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced." [17]
Telltale Aerial Photos
Detailed aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of Auschwitz-Birkenau on
several random days in 1944 (during the height of the alleged extermination
period there) were made public by the CIA in 1979. These photos show no
trace of piles of corpses, smoking crematory chimneys or masses of Jews
awaiting death, things that have been repeatedly alleged, and all of which
would have been clearly visible if Auschwitz had been the extermination
center it is said to have been. [18]
Absurd Cremation Claims
Cremation specialists have confirmed that thousands of corpses could not
possibly have been cremated every day throughout the spring and summer of
1944 at Auschwitz, as commonly alleged.
For example, Mr. Ivan Lagace, manager of a large crematory in Calgary,
Canada, testified in court in April 1988 that the Auschwitz cremation story
is technically impossible. The allegation that 10,000 or even 20,000
corpses were burned every day at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944 in
crematories and open pits is simply "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of
reality," he declared under oath. [19]
Gassing Expert Refutes Extermination Story
America's leading gas chamber expert, Fred A. Leuchter, carefully examined
the supposed "gas chambers" in Poland and concluded that the Auschwitz
gassing story is absurd and technically impossible.
Leuchter is the foremost specialist on the design and installation of gas
chambers used in the United States to execute convicted criminals. For
example, he designed a gas chamber facility for the Missouri state
penitentiary.
In February 1988 he carried out a detailed onsite examination of the "gas
chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek in Poland, which are either
still standing or only partially in ruins. In sworn testimony to a Toronto
court and in a technical report, Leuchter described every aspect of his
investigation.
He concluded by emphatically declaring that the alleged gassing facilities
could not possibly have been used to kill people. Among other things, he
pointed out that the so-called "gas chambers" were not properly sealed or
vented to kill human beings without also killing German camp personnel.
[20]
Dr. William B. Lindsey, a research chemist employed for 33 years by the
Dupont Corporation, likewise testified in a 1985 court case that the
Auschwitz gassing story is technically impossible. Based on a careful
on-site examination of the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau and
Majdanek, and on his years of experience, he declared: "I have come to the
conclusion that no one was willfully or purposefully killed with Zyklon B
[hydrocyanic acid gas] in this manner. I consider it absolutely
impossible." [21]
http://www.solargeneral.com/library/www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.html
since then and Israel consider Iraq an active threat even after it was
disarmed by the American
& British bombing for its military bases during the last decade .
Let the mind to be the judge... who threaten whom ?!
>Mark Weber is director of the Institute for Historical Review. He studied
>history at the University of Illinois (Chicago), the University of Munich,
>Portland State University and Indiana University (M.A., 1977). For nine
>years he served as editor of the IHR's Journal of Historical Review.
>http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml
>
>
>Also see:
>Open Society And Its Enemies - The Story Of Auschwitz
>http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?id=2726
>
>
>Auschwitz: The Final Count
>http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?id=2709
>
>
>The Diminishing Numbers of Alleged Dead in Auschwitz
>http://vancouver.indymedia.org/print.php?id=156377
>
>
>The Liberation of the Camps
>http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?id=55
>
>
>A Factual Appriasal by the Red Cross
>http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?id=2735
Read the Red Cross reports. Go to the Red Cross museum, headquarters
> in your city and pick up the records. Anyway theres a few independent
> witnesses.
> http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html
>
>
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Numbe
> r=293321480
> http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
>
> http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
>
> Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
> http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
During World WarII, Rassinier was a highly decorated member of the French
Resistance. In October of 1943 he was arrested by the Gestapo for various
activities including the smuggling of Jewish refugees over the Franco-Swiss
border. http://www.codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/PORT1RAS.HTML
>
> http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2_Letters.html
> On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A. Lindbergh
> broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that when
> Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WW2, he was
> told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years
> http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/lindbergh3.html
TERROR BOMBING
Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain had given an assurance that:
'The British Government would never resort to the deliberate attack on women
and children and other civilians for the purpose of mere terrorism.'
However, his successor Winston Churchill appointed as his personal adviser
the Jew Professor Lindemann. Lindemann, later Lord Cherwell, suggested the
bombing of German cities and that working class areas were legitimate
targets, and from then onwards the last vestiges of civilised decency in
warfare were abandoned. These bombings began on 10 August 1940 with the
bombing of the small open town of Freiburg on the Swiss frontier.
Fifty-three civilians were killed, including twenty children playing in the
park. It was reported by Mr. Taylor of the American Red Cross in the New
York Times of 3 May 1940. This was before the Germans began bombing British
cities. Mr. J. M. Speight, CBE, Principal Secretary to the Air Ministry,
wrote in his book The Splendid Decision:
'Adolf Hitler only undertook the bombing of British civilian targets
reluctantly after the RAF had commenced bombing German civilian targets...
It gave Coventry, Birmingham, Sheffield and Southampton the right to look
Kiev, Kharkov, Stalingrad and Sebastopol in the face. Our Soviet allies
would have been less critical of our inactivity if they had understood what
we had done... Hitler would have been willing at my time to stop the
slaughter. Hitler was genuinely anxious to reach with Britain an agreement
confining the action of aircraft to battle zones.'
http://www.msnbc.com/news/606092.asp?0si=-&cp1=1
Who has said, America and Israel? I'll pick Israel every time. That is a guy
who was educated, worked in intelligence in the air force in America
ALIEN CONTROL
Is US like Germany of the '30s? Published on Friday, June 11, 2004 by the
Chicago Sun Times by Andrew Greeley
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0611-10.htm
The Daily Mail reported on 10 July 1933:
'The German nation, moreover, was rapidly falling under the control of its
alien elements. In the last days of the pre-Hitler regime there were twenty
times as many Jewish government officials in Germany as had existed before
the war. Israelites of international attachments were insinuating themselves
into key positions in the German administrative machine.'
Resentment and resistance began to build up against the alien horde and in
the year before Adolf Hitler came to power Bernard Lecache, President of the
World Jewish League, stated:
'Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war
without mercy against her.'
On that same day, 24 March 1933, on the front page of the London Daily
Express appeared the main headlines: "Judaea declares war on Germany: Jews
of all the world unite", and followed with:
'The Israelite people of the entire world declare economic and financial war
on Germany. The appearance of the Swastika as the symbol of the new Germany
revives the old war symbol of the Jews. Fourteen million Jews stand as one
body to declare war on Germany. The Jewish wholesale dealer leaves his
business, the banker his bank, the shopkeeper his shop, the beggar his
miserable hut in order to combine forces in the holy war against Hitler's
people.'
The German government was removing Jews from influential positions and
transferring power back to the German people. This declaration of war by the
Jews on Germany was repeated throughout the world. The first boycott of
Jewish business concerns came after this Jewish declaration of war in April
1933.
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/stlouis.html
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/opposition/cannonfodder.htm
We implore and beseech our Jewish brethren to realize that the Zionists are
not the saviours of the Jewish People and guarantors of their safety, but
rather the instigators and original cause of Jewish suffering in the Holy
Land and worldwide.
http://www.aldeilis.net/zion/zionhol01.html
The Zionist Federation of Germany (ZVfD), an organisation representing a
tiny minority of German Jews, was selected by the Nazis as the body to
represent the Jews of the Reich.
The best example of this was the 'Transfer Agreement' of 1934. Immediately
after the Nazi takeover in 1933, Jews all over the world supported or were
organising a world wide boycott of German goods. This campaign hurt the Nazi
regime and the German authorities searched frantically for a way disabling
the boycott. It was clear that if Jews and Jewish organisations were to pull
out, the campaign would collapse.
This problem was solved by the ZVfD. A letter sent to the Nazi party as
early as 21.6.33, outlined the degree of agreement that existed between the
two organisations on the questions of race, nation, and the nature of the
'Jewish problem', and it offered to collaborate with the new regime:
In their eagerness to gain credence and the backing of the new regime, the
Zionist organisation managed to undermine the boycott. The main public act
was the signature of the 'Transfer Agreement' with the Nazi authorities
during the Zionist Congress of 1934. In essence, the agreement was designed
to get Germany's Jews out of the country and into Mandate Palestine. It
provided a possibility for Jews to take a sizeable part of their property
out of the country, through a transfer of German goods to Palestine. This
right was denied to Jews leaving for any other destination (emphasis - ED).
The Zionist Organisation was the acting agent, through its financial
organisations. This agreement operated on a number of fronts 'helping' Jews
to leave the country, breaking the ring of the boycott, exporting German
goods in large quantities to Palestine, and last but not least, enabling the
regime to be seen as humane and reasonable even towards its avowed enemies,
the Jews. After all, they argued, the Jews do not belong in Europe and now
the Jews come and agree with them.
After news of the agreement broke, the boycott was doomed. If the Zionist
Organisation found it possible and necessary to deal with the Nazis, and
import their goods, who could argue for a boycott? This was not the first
time that the interests of both movements were presented to the German
public as complementary. Baron Von Mildenstein, the first head of the Jewish
Department of the SS, later followed by Eichmann, was invited to travel to
Palestine. This he did in early 1933, in the company of a Zionist leader,
Kurt Tuchler. Having spent six months in Palestine, he wrote a series of
favourable articles in Der Sturmer describing the 'new Jew' of Zionism, a
Jew Nazis could accept and understand.
The declared enemy was now right in the middle of their country. Bankers,
industrialists, media moguls, movie producers, merchants, and others,
overnight became enemies of Germany.
No nation in the world would have allowed their declared enemies to freely
roam around the country. The Germans, however, never implemented measures
against the Jews as drastic as the United States did with their Japanese
citizens.
http://www.foitimes.com/internment/
On March 24, 1933, the Jewish World Congress, then under the leadership of
Chaim Weizman, declared war on Germany on behalf of the Jews of the world.
thousands of Jews were not bothered by the Nazis or by the fate of their
"convicted" co-religionists. They went on with their daily lives in Germany
while the world was running amok about the "harsh treatment of Jews in
Germany." To illustrate the true "fate of the Jews," one has to look at some
of the prominent Jewish leaders living in Germany at the time.
These are very important questions, because so many prominent Jews survived
the alleged Holocaust. Simon Wiesenthal, Eli Wiesel, Leo Baeck, Max
Nussbaum, and so many more like them. As a matter of fact, approximately 4.5
million Jews "survived."
Why did Rabbi Baeck never leave the Third Reich, the land of concentration
camps and "gas chambers," with all the other 300,000 German Jews who were
allowed to leave for more lucrative lands?
By all accounts, Rabbi Dr. Leo Baeck must have had a very comfortable
existence under the National Socialist Government in Germany. Born in 1873
in Posen, he became a Rabbi in 1897 in Oppeln/Silesia. Interestingly, he was
a Rabbi in Berlin from 1912 until 1943, when he himself was interned at the
Theresienstadt camp, a camp where most of the prominent Jews and resistance
activists were housed. After the war Leo Baeck immigrated to England.
Why did Rabbi Baeck never leave the Third Reich, the land of concentration
camps and "gas chambers," with all the other 300,000 German Jews who were
allowed to leave for more lucrative lands?
Another question should be put to all those false Holocaust "experts" by
asking them how many Jews were gassed in Dachau? As a matter of fact, no one
was ever "gassed" in Germany, or in territories under German control, as has
been established in court
In Schuld und Schicksal (Guilt and Fate) Burg dealt with the Warsaw and Lodz
ghettos. When the German troops occupied Warsaw, they wanted to concentrate
the Jewish population. Real ghettos had been there for centuries but the
assimilated or emancipated Jews had lived far way from the ghettos. Now the
Germans wanted to have the Jews all together. In a practical sense, the
ghetto was also organized for the protection of the Jewish population.
(26-6885, 6886)
The Zionists were happy with this arrangement. An appointed Jewish Council
was the governing body of the ghetto. They had their own police, jails and
everything else. Naturally, there were some who were cruel. One of these was
the vice president of the police, who was later executed. In Burg's eyes,
this execution was evidence that Jews defended themselves against the
minority of Zionists who were using the majority of Jews for their own
purposes. (26-6886, 6887)
Then, when hundreds of thousands of civilians died in massive Allied bombing
raids against German civilians ... and only then ... Rabbi Baeck got out.
And where did he go? To Theresienstadt, because the concentration camp was
never bombed by the Allies, and was the safest place for a Jew to be.
Why did Rabbi Baeck never leave the Third Reich, the land of concentration
camps and "gas chambers," with all the other 300,000 German Jews who were
allowed to leave for more lucrative lands?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/books/20040228-104600-5293r.htm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618485406/102-0292101-9147327?v=glance&n=283155
http://www.loc.gov/catdir/samples/hm051/2003047896.html
Russian troops marched into Berlin on April 24, 1945, they found 800 Jews
alive and well in Berlin's Jewish hospital.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/21/newsid_3560000/3560175.stm
It must have been relatively easy to leave Germany. Max Nussbaum, Chief
Rabbi of Berlin until 1940 (who later became Chief Rabbi of Beverly Hills,
CA), immigrated to New York at the advice of Rabbi Stephen Wise. Did Rabbi
Wise already know of the coming war between the United States and Germany in
1940?
One must assume that Rabbi Baeck knew about Rabbi Nussbaum's plan to move to
New York, but again Baeck remained in Berlin. A riddle to be sure, unless
the horrors of Nazism were not that horrible for the Jews after all.
� > IS IT TRUE that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo
offered
all
> > European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their
property
> > in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that:
> > a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine;<
YES THAT OFFER WAS MADE. THE JEWS CAN THANK THE ZIONISTS WHO DECLINED FOR
THEIR VARIOUS REASONS.
Under the guise of "love of Israel", the Zionist "statesmen" seduced many
Jews to replace devotion to the Torah and its Sages with devotion to the
scoundrel who founded Zionism
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/tenquestions.htm
The Jewish Agency delegation headed by Golda Meir (Meirson) ignored a German
offer to allow Jews to emigrate to other countries for $250 a head, and the
other Jewish groups made no effort to influence the United States and the
32 other countries attending the conference to allow immigration of German
and Austrian Jews.
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Jews-not-for-Judaism/Jews-who-helped-nazis-hitler.htm
AND YOU WERE IN SOMEONES ELSES COUNTRY INTERMARRIED AND ALL .
YOU HAD THE SAME FREEDOMS THAT YOU NOW ENJOY IN OUR WESTERN DEMOCRACIES, AND
SOME OF YOU TURNED ON THE PEOPLE AND COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE TO SHOW YOUR
SOLIDARITY WITH JEWS/ZIONISTS.
THERE WERE JEWS WHO WERE LOYAL GERMAN CITIZENS AND WORKED WITH THE GERMANS .
Jews in German army
http://judaism.about.com/b/a/039042.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/675641/posts
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/jewishnazi.html
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERmiltch.htm
http://www.jugendgeschichtswerkstatt.de/strassennamen/fliegerviertel/flieger
viertel.html
http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/gerjews.htm
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/00/03/NSJews.html
Here by a Munich-born historian saluting in moving detail a group of little
known
heroines - the women, nearly all of them German, who opposed Hitler both
before and, more dramatically, during the war.
http://www.new-books-in-german.com/aut2001/book05a.htm
http://www.adolfthegreat.com/
http://www.msnbc.com/news/606092.asp?0si=-&cp1=1
Who has said, America and Israel? I'll pick Israel every time. That is a guy
who was educated, worked in intelligence in the air force in America
ALIEN CONTROL
Is US like Germany of the '30s? Published on Friday, June 11, 2004 by the
Chicago Sun Times by Andrew Greeley
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0611-10.htm
The Daily Mail reported on 10 July 1933:
'The German nation, moreover, was rapidly falling under the control of its
alien elements. In the last days of the pre-Hitler regime there were twenty
times as many Jewish government officials in Germany as had existed before
the war. Israelites of international attachments were insinuating themselves
into key positions in the German administrative machine.'
Resentment and resistance began to build up against the alien horde and in
the year before Adolf Hitler came to power Bernard Lecache, President of the
World Jewish League, stated:
'Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war
without mercy against her.'
On that same day, 24 March 1933, on the front page of the London Daily
Express appeared the main headlines: "Judaea declares war on Germany: Jews
of all the world unite", and followed with:
'The Israelite people of the entire world declare economic and financial war
on Germany. The appearance of the Swastika as the symbol of the new Germany
revives the old war symbol of the Jews. Fourteen million Jews stand as one
body to declare war on Germany. The Jewish wholesale dealer leaves his
business, the banker his bank, the shopkeeper his shop, the beggar his
miserable hut in order to combine forces in the holy war against Hitler's
people.'
http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Palast.htm
The following disturbing essay describing how U.S. geopolitics is
subverted, and its military leaders openly co-opted by a foreign country
(Israel) is from the website of Israel Shamir, a Russian Jew
who broke with organized Zionism and who now "tells it like it is" about
Israel (which very un-politically-correct, of course) in widely-read columns
(www.israelshamir.net)
Following an incisive essay about Greg Palast, a "leftist" Jewish-American
writer who laughably maintains that the USA's Israel-First Jewish Lobby and
its operatives in the U.S. government and
corporate media had nothing to do with bringing about the invasion of Iraq
or the drumbeat for an attack against Israel's other major enemy,Iran.
Shamir, himself a descendent of rabbis, pointedly writes:
"I have no idea of Palast's ethnic background, but ideologically,nobody
can be more Judaic than this man ["leftist" Palast, who is, in fact,
Jewish], who worships money, despises the native and wishes to
bomb some place in the Middle East. These are classic Judaic attitudes,so I
was not surprised when Palast emerged as an apologist for the Jewsand an
accuser of greedy WASPs and Arabs. In his 'Was the Invasion of Iraq A
Jewish Conspiracy?' essay published in the Jewish 'progressive'
magazine Tikkun, Pallast pulls usual ropes; for him, whoever thinks that the
Jewish establishment pushed for the war on Iraq (including Mearsheimer and
Walt, apparently) must adhere to the Elders of Zion and Christ-killers
paradigm."
In the following the author discusses Israel's infiltration of the
profoundly compromised and corrupted mainstream U.S. media and high-level
military officers by pro-Israel interests.
"From Jim Dean
"The Jewish Lobby shills are fairly easy to spot in the media. All you
have to do is read about any major problem or controversy where certain
Jewish interests are obviously entwined, and these normally intelligent and
insightful journalists become instantly blind to it. No other issue makes
them instantly braindead.
"For the goyim journalist fear is a major component as they work in a
ghetto type environment when it comes to discussing Israel. And then of
course there is ignorance...no shortage of that around. And last, of
course...prejudice. But there is also the intelligence aspect of it.
"Intelligence agency infiltration of the media is an old old game but you
don't read hardly a word about it in investigative journalism. Our CIA, and
others, have done this for years and so has our wonderfully ally Israel
right here in the land of free speech.
"I am not saying that their shills are graduates of Mossad. That would be
more expensive. They are recruited like most are recruited, some for money
(career assistance) and some purely for ideological
reasons, most often a combination of the two. They got their hooks into the
early teleevangelist the same way. They were in a position to greatly assist
in building them up...as long as they had a good
understanding about a few things. There is one that we have who flew around
on an Israeli Gov. Leat jet for a couple of years.
"It's the perfect infiltration set up. You have protection of sources. And
you are somewhat protected yourself from FBI investigations. Once your
career is 'advanced' high enough (Judith Miller?) you can be a source for
leaks, and you can even reveal your sources to your Israeli handler if you
want to. They do require some payback for the career help they offer.
"They have a separate program for retiring US generals and flag officers
They screen them prior to retirement to determine who is likely to remain in
the public eye. They are approached about their
retirement plans and if they are subservient enough are offered help getting
some 'board directorships' or nice consulting positions 'for such a good
friend of Israel'. This is topped off with a five star deluxe trip to Israel
where they are wined and dined.
"There is a lot of beneath the surface revulsion to this going on by those
below that level of rank. Our top officers are being seduced into the Jewish
Lobby propaganda machine in what many tell me is a classic Intel
infiltration operation. Our own Intel people (the ones who are not
Israel-phobes) are just aghast at the proto dual citizenship compromising
that goes on. God only knows what they turn over to the Israelis, the doors
they open.
"One result of this is nary a critical word from our veteran organizations
regarding the most obvious Israeli security excesses, the biggest being the
massive Israeli Intel operations that have been
running here for decades. I hardly ever meet an military Intel person who is
not aware of this, and most all of them are completely complacent about it.
'Above my pay grade'...and 'that's really a
political issue' are the most common dodges that are trotted out about it.
They won't even discuss the USS Liberty. They just hang their heads in
shame.
"I have no specific information on Mr. Palast, but he is what we would
call in the Intel business 'a person of interest'. Now Judith Miller on the
other hand, she may be on their payroll. After all, she
was able to wiggle her way into the actual interrogations of some of addam
top Lts. while she went around with the Army WMD units in Iraq. My sources
told me this was unprecedented, having a journalist present in such
situations. Her DoD NeoCon buddies got her right in there. They
were there for each other and it wasn't a freak accident.
"And what other country do you think might have had an interest in knowing
what she learned in those interrogations...and quickly? Does anyone think
that her NeoCon buddies who got her on the inside were not getting detailed
reports of everything that she learned?
"This is called 'front door' espionage. No break ins are necessary. You
just make an appointment. The media refuses to cover this, and for very good
reason. They are involved. But when you think of how many Israeli spy
networks that US Intel broke up in the US last year...and the year before
that...and on and on...you can see how the midlevel people could have a
jaded attitude about the whole mess.
"It's a national disgrace.
"Jim Dean
"Heritage TV...Atlanta"
The victims were from Austria, Canada, China and Finland,
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20060726-120144-9661r.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14029827/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205549,00.html
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=66512
<tat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154259325.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
� The shooting of "Solidarity-with-Israel" jews in Seattle by a lone
> American muslim engineer could be just the tip of the iceberg of the
> antipathy developing towards jews in America:
>
> http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SEATTTLE_SHOOTING?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-28-20-03-32
>
> and a more recent analysis:
>
> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/279424_convert30ww.html
>
> While an isolated incident the extreme nature of it indicates all is
> not kosher below the 49th. A week or so earlier a caller to the Art
> Bell all-night talk show (CoasttoCoast) displayed overwhelming
> resignation about intense, widespread disdain for jews, something that
> normally would be precluded by screeners on pro-Israeli mainstream
> media. So the fact that all that Americans are getting for their
> $3-billion-a-year annual gift to Israel is body bags of friends or
> relatives along with many more cripples is not sitting well with
> Americans with no Israeli interests.
>
> Current story from Iraq:
>
> http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=11793
>
> says Iraqis now see the American flag as a symbol of moral decadence.
> Instead of symbolizing liberty, freedom and defence of human rights, US
> flag is now associated with murder, rape, usurping human rights and
> violating international laws, all resulting from Israeli agents and
> lobbies taking political control of America for the defence of Israel.
> An earlier article:
>
> http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_id=11774
>
> talks about No More Democracy Promotion by US in Iraq. My "Good"
> comment is about two-thirds of the way down but also see the
> "Excellent" one from "MeAgain" who endores my contribution and reveals
> even more than I did.
> President Bush, instead of mending fences in South America and
> improving trade and economic opportunities for Americans is forced by
> AIPAC to spend all of his time supporting zionist terrorists who have
> been stealing land from Palestinians and killing them, incurring the
> wrath of Arabs throughtout the ME and the world. While
> industrialization opportunties in Venezula should be the perview of
> American entrapreneurs, this market is not being facilitated by Bush
> for Americans but by Ahmadinejad for Iranians:
>
> http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-17/0607308736011541.htm
>
> The launching of US military forces against against Iraq by Israeli
> neocon agents in the Whitehouse and Pentagon may soon get legal
> scrutiny in a British court where three of England's most senior judges
> will look into the legality of Britiain's entry into the war:
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/uk-court-to-test-legality-of-iraq-war/2006/07/27/1153816320596.html
>
> Families of British soldiers killed in Iraq asked for the court inquiry
> using an EU right-to-life human rights convention.
>
> A more ominous message is in a Herndon survey on Sorcha's somewhat
> mystical What Does It Mean.com site which notes a dramatic trend in the
> US and Germany: a developing wave of potentially violent anti-semitism.
> The survey found jewish and Israeli organizations are in the process
> of rapidly losing control of their PR initiatives:
>
> http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index938.htm
>
> These events together with rumbling's in Blair's cabinet, US State's
> denial that indecision in Rome "allowed" Israel to continue bombing
> Lebanon, Israeli casualties, Russia not including Hizbollah and Hamas
> on its list of (17) "terror" organizations, and more Arab states
> condemning Israel's destruction of Lebanese infrastructure indicate
> zionists would be better off at the negotiating table rather than the
> battlefield, especially since the only purpose of Hizbollah's capture
> of IDF soldiers was to get negotiations going to return their POW's
> Tatarewicz
Lindberg kidnapping Zionist Helter Skelter.
Many writers and the FBI have connected Albert Einstein to the lindberg
kidnapping.
The evidence is sound, but charges have not stuck, because there appears
to be no motive.
Lindberg was an American hero, Idolized by Hitler. who was hated by
Zionists. for his victory over Communism.
Stakes were very high in 1932, the time of the kidnapping. International
Communism was loosing ground, After Hitler kicked the Communists out of
Germany.
Americans hated Communism as much as the Germans. In order to turn the
Country against Hitler. The Zionists in America started a helter skelter
operation . in order to push Hitler into striking back at the Jews in
Germany.
Charles Manson believed he could start a race war between Blacks and
Whites by murdering several White celebrities. His operation was coded
helter skelter.
Helter skelter was nothing new, England use the same tactic to divide
America before the Civil War. with the anti-slavery movement.
America hated Communism, Hitler was destroying Communism, but Americans
spirituality was based on freedom for persecuted minorities..
By turning Hitler against Jews, Zionists hoped to increase Communist
influence in America. And use the US in fighting wars in Europe, against
the Catholic powers.
1 th 5;3''Then when they say ''peace and safety'' sudden destruction
will come upon them'' as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they shall
not escape''
When the UN takes control of the border of Israel and Lebanon Israel
will say ''peace and safety'' then 1th 5;3'' WILL BE FULFILED.
Qana Massacre II
30 July 2006
55 Civilians massacred including 27 children in a shelter (Early reports)
Qana is the place where, according to the Fourth Gospel, Jesus performed his
first miracle, the turning of a large quantity of water into wine at a
wedding feast (John 2:1-11) http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.info/
�
<renab...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156799204.1...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> dontcowerf...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > No coverage of the following either in the Jewish controlled/influenced
> > US press/media which would rather focus on Jon Benet:
>
> SNIP
>
> No doubt due to the total control of the media by the Evil Jewish
> Bankers (tm)
>
>
> >
> > Judge says "ample cause to believe" AIPAC pair were foreign agents
> >
> > http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=57878
> >
> > C-SPAN TO AIR CAIR 'ISRAEL LOBBY' PANEL LIVE:
> >
> > http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=58567
>
�
�
http://www.predatoryaliens.com
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org
http://www.daylaborers.org
http://www.newnation.com/index2.html
"The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave" by Heather Mac Donald
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html
http://idexer.com
www.AmericanPatrol.com
www.SaveOurState.org
Prince Andy
>> In article <49d67a8e$2...@news.x-privat.org>,
>> ZuLu <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
>>
>>> m-weber escribi�:
>>
>>>> So you say, so you say. I'll be happy to discuss this, but first
>>>> answer my question and tell us where these 437,000 Hungarian Jews,
>>>> among them about 100,000 children and infants, vanished to.
WELL FOR A START THEY STILL OWN THE NEWSPAPERS?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/3094033.stm
Reporter: Rosie Goldsmith
Producer: Rosie Goldsmith
Editor: Hugh Levinson
Lest you think there must be some truth to the alleged Treblinka holocaust
NAFCASH TM is offering a $250,000.00 REWARD
For locating JUST ONE of the alleged "HUGE MASS GRAVES" of Treblinka
NAFCASH TM presents
THE TREBLINKA CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION CHALLENGE TM
You must scientifically - forensically prove the grave's EXACT location,
its EXACT dimensions and its EXACT volumetric density.
The cremated remains must total AT LEAST one percent of the alleged mass
murder.
JUST ONE MASS GRAVE! - JUST ONE PERCENT!
There are other indications as well that the theory of mass destruction of
the Hungarian Jews is incorrect: the witnesses to this destruction
unanimously claim that during these alleged mass exterminations the limited
capacity of the Birkenau crematoria necessitated the excavation of enormous
pits, in which the bodies were burned. Dark clouds of smoke, they claim,
darkened the sky over Birkenau during this procedure. Fortunately (or
unfortunately, depending on one's perspective) the aerial reconnaissance
photographs taken by the Allies during this time prove that in the Birkenau
camp, which was not obscured by clouds of smoke when the pictures were
taken, there were neither open fires, nor giant pits, nor smoke activity on
any scale large or small, nor piles of dead bodies, nor great supplies of
firewood, nor anything else of the sort.[45] The Polish Historical Society
concludes that in light of this evidence the number of victims in Auschwitz
must be reduced by another 400,000 plus 74,000 (Polish Jews from the
liquidated ghetto Lodz, who are also claimed to have been gassed around this
time), leaving some 500,000 victims for Auschwitz.[46]
Resistance. In October of 1943 he was arrested by the Gestapo for various
activities including the smuggling of Jewish refugees over the Franco-Swiss
border took 2 years to publish his book because of persistent resistance
by the jewish clique.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/A4.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/articles/HowWarsBegin.html
http://www.anti-rev.org/textes/VidalNaquet92a/part-6.html
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_Rassinier
No Evidence Of Genocide
One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it
clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in
the camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaotic
condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the
war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed
an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the
German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ...
In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and
General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results.
Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate
was authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).
� "If Auschwitz is something other than a horror of history, then
> Christianity totters in its foundations. Christ is the Son of God, who
> went to the end of the humanely endurable, where he endured the
> cruellest suffering. (...) If Auschwitz is true, then there is a human
> suffering with which that of Christ simply cannot be compared. (...)
> In this case, Christ is false, and salvation will not come from him.
> (...) Auschwitz is the refutation of Christ." (Les temps modernes,
> Paris, December 1993, p. 132, 133.)
>
> Nowadays, a large percentage of the Jews do not believe in God any
> more, but virtually all of them believe in the Six Million.
>>
>> In the end, a bit of drama unfolded: Mr. Griffiths, the prosecutor who
>> had himself solicited the presence of this witness numero uno and yet
>> now apparently exasperated by Dr. Vrba's lies, fired off the following
>> question:
>>
>> "You told Mr. Christie several times in discussing your book I Cannot
>> Forgive that you used poetic license in writing that book. Have you
>> used poetic license in your testimony?" (p. 1636).
>>
>> The false witness tried to parry the blow but prosecutor Griffiths hit
>> him with a second question equally treacherous, this time concerning
>> the number of gassing victims which Vrba had given; the witness
>> responded with garrulous nonsense; Griffiths was getting ready to ask
>> him a third and final question when suddenly, the matter was cut short
>> and one heard the prosecutor say to the judge:
>>
>> "I have no further questions for Dr. Vrba" (p. 1643).
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/09/frequently-asked-questions-about.html
The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died in
German work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.
Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hunger
caused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of her
infrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realize
that
the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942 until
the end of the war.
That office never reported or recorded any atrocities (Several years ago
international Jewry forced the Red Cross to apologize to the Jews -
apologize for not seeing something that never happened.)
Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation
as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that
food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German
transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on
March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter
Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German
Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation
system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany
were becoming inevitable.
http://www.jewishmag.com/62mag/redcross/redcross.htm
Double Cross Red Cross for Jews - By Arlene Peck
http://www.liesexposed.net/nfp/issue0111/rcross.htm
Bernadine Healy, American Red Cross president, resigned Friday, October 26,
2001. Healy gave her reason for resignation as disputes with the board
regarding Israel's admission into the International Red Cross. Almost two
hundred nations have membership in the International Red Cross. At a recent
meeting, Healy promised that the American Red Cross would not pay membership
dues to the international association until Israel was allowed official
entrance into the International Red Cross.
]
Patrick Keenan
"ZuLu" <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote in message
news:49d7c303$1...@news.x-privat.org...
> m-weber escribió:
>> In article <49ceb920$1...@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu <zu...@skeptikal.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> m-weber escribi:
>>
>>>> Why did some of the furnaces break down? From overuse, yes?
>>
>>> Not exactly, mainly construction defects according with Pressac.
>>
>> So they could not manufacture good ovens, with all the
>> experience they had?
>
> Well, they used manpower available at the camp and probably war time
> material don't give too much choice. We know that K IV and K V ovens used
> very poor refractory material indeed.
>
>>> However with the consumption of 802 tons of coke for all 1943, that
>>> doesn't represent too much concerning the actual activity
>>> of the ovens. I would say a very low activity in regard of the total
>>> capacity installed.
>>
>> But again, child, you're not making any sense. You have
>> admitted yourself that all crematoriums were operational. If
>> there was "very low activity", why operate all of them? And
>> you claim you're an engineer? Pfft.
>
> The fact that an installation is operational doesn't mean that you will
> use it 24h/24. That means that it is available if you need to use it.
>
> The "intense activity" you refer to is eventual because 2 turns were
> needed that day.
> Why?
> I don't know because more documents are necessary to get a picture of what
> those 2 turns were supposed to do THAT PRECISE DAY. Maybe they had to burn
> twice more corpses than for a normal days...
>
>>>> That's a postulate which for some reason -- in all probability
>>>> mental illness -- you have decided to adopt.
>>>> But then, you also deny the Nazi extermination policy, although
>>>> it was proved to you -- time and time again -- that all the
>>>> leaders of Nazi Germany, and even the judicial system, were
>>>> perfectly aware that such a plan existed. Like all cultist
>>>> fanatics, you are not willing to accept reality. That's all;
>>>> a certain percentage of the people on this planet are crazy
>>>> as bedbugs, and you happen to be one of them. And if I know
>>>> anything about human nature, you'll be crazy as a bedbug
>>>> for as long as you live. Pray for a miracle, poor child.
>>
>>> The issue is that nothing was proved.
>>
>> The intent to exterminate was proved, the extermination itself was
>> proved, the physical and documentary evidence was provided.
>
> Documentary evidence provided to prove "extermination at gas chambers" at
> Birkenau?
> Documentary evidence for an "extermination plan"?
The extermination plan is not just for one camp.
There were thousands of camps, some existing only while the locals were
killed, and millions murdered.
>
> I hope you have some example to show...
You refuse to accept the examples shown to you.
>
>> Hell, child -- look at this Taubner verdict that is often posted
>> here. The Supreme SS and Police Court, no less, stated in a
>> matter-of-factly fashion "The Jews have to be exterminated" and
>> added "the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos
>> were set up especially for this purpose".
>
>
> Taubner verdict reports a sentence and words pronounced by some big nazi
> similar to a Lieberman (well, I haven't even seen the genuine text).
It's interesting that when faced with exactly the evidence you claim you
want, clear statements of purpose from those in charge, you pretend it isn't
what it is.
The "some big nazi" was expressing the stated policy of the Nazi government
and the SS, that Jews were to be exterminated.
> I suppose we could find thousands of that sort from that time as Goering
> himself said at Nuremberg.
Which happens to also be what "big nazis" said when they were *in power*.
Do you think that's somehow just a co-incidence?
>
> What I am expecting is real proofs of "realization" and "facts" especially
> concerning "massive gassing operations" at Birkenau.
You claim that's what you are expecting, but you cannot deal with the clear
statement of purpose by nazis in charge, at the height of their power.
> Why is so difficult to find it whilst 80,000 files are available to the
> construction of the "death factories"?
>
> How can you explain that with that amount of documentation about a "death
> factory" we can't find ANY DOCUMENT related with CRIMINAL INTENTION at
> Birkenau.
So you think that the fact that nobody hands you a document about Birkenau
means anything other than the fact that nobody's doing your work for you, or
that you simply will reject *anything*?
In the Taubner verdict, you have a clear, general statement of purpose made
by those in charge: Jews are to be exterminated.
The statement isn't in any way equivocal.
> Give 80,000 documents about the construction of any factory and ask an
> engineer if he wouldn't be able to tell what such factory is for.
> That is simply incredible.
One notes that Zyklon needs no special structures, as it can be used it
tents.
Elaborate structures are just not needed.
> In fact, the examen of the plans shows a clear thing: SS planed and built
> morgues and ovens at the Kremas based on civilian models of crematorium in
> use in Germany at that time.
>
> Why holoks are so reluctant to reject that simple evidence.
>
>> As someone wrote, there is no evidence you'll accept; that is
>> the trademark of cultist fanatics.
>
> At the moment you haven't shown any...
Actually he has.
When presented with a clear and unequivocal statement of purpose, you
pretend that it isn't what it is.
This is not the behaviour of anyone who is honestly questioning the events.
-pk
Doc Tony
> "ZuLu" <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote in message
> news:49d7c303$1...@news.x-privat.org...
>
Just a word on what Patrick said about Zyklon B and 'tents' --- and I've
mentioned this some years ago where I asked former vets [as I am] or
indeed folks today in law enforcement who go through those academies --
tell me, especially vets, does the acronym "CBR" [Chemical, Biological,
Radiological] ring a bell? And do you recall your exposure to it 'sans'
the gas mask? I do! Guys built like the proverbial brick sh** houses and
BIG [6'2" and over] falling to their knees like flies and retching,
coughing, and the eye sting where you feel like your eyes on on fire and
no amount of rubbing the eyes helps until the stuff, which is to say,
the 'tear gas' finally abates. You walk around [or crawl] like a zombie
until the stuff, and its cessation therein, wears off. Yet I've seen
the stuff, and this for 'training' purposes mind you, dispersed even in
the open, much less the old hardly 'fully sealed' military CBR tent, and
guys again drop like flies and for some, the effects can last for days
with headaches, et al. And this is mere tear gas!
Point two -- go back to World War 'I' and the real nasty shell delivered
gas [mustard, et al] often effecting troops in the complete open much
less when it settled and 'lingered' causing 'many' deaths and/or
permanent lung or related pulmonary damage. My point? It doesn't take
much when it comes to a gas agent. If mere dispersed 'tear' gas [and
I've seen it happen and experienced it as virtually every soldier has at
one time or another in training], anyway, if tear gas can literally
flatten to their knees a whole platoon of men, hey, imagine the effects
when the ante is upped from tear gas to the more deadly stuff, like
Zyklon B.
Further, it's generally been the standard 'revisionist' response that
all those large concrete floor areas in the KZ's, especially the killing
camps, are revisionist relegated to everything from 'storage areas', to
"morgues" to "air-raid shelters" yet when certain doors are found with
"peep holes" -- WHY would a morgue require a peep hole? Sort of like our
old cinematic friend Doc Zaius [** Maurice Evans] in the rather cleverly
written Sci-fi 'culture-reversal' flick, 'Planet of the Apes' [1968],
and he sees Nova [** Linda Harrison] fiddling with the human doll
'artifact' and ready to explain that away too with all the other human
'artifacts' until Nova drops the doll and .... the doll 'SPEAKS' and
says, "Mammmm-Ma, Mammmmmm-Ma." Get it? Like trying to explain away a
'peep-holed' door ... in a "morgue."
Doc Tony
;-)
[And then ... ]
Vangel: "Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! Like, I saw that movie too! So the doll
they found in the ruins says 'Ma-Ma', so what? A lotta' dolls say
"Ma-Ma", what's the big deal? I thought they wrote that wrong and ruined
the whole movie 'cause it was just stupid! Dolls can talk, I've heard them!"
[CAMEO! And well missed!]
Steve Mock: "Mr. Vangel. I happen to be a fan of, among other cinematic
genres, Sci-Fi movies. When the doll SPEAKS "Ma-Ma", it proved that the
prior civilization 'before' the Apes, which is to say humans, could
TALK! They were not just former Ape "pets", they could talk and had
their own civilization, understand? BEFORE the Ape-talking culture
reversal. Doc Zaius 'knew' that too! In fact, Alex, what is it that
Charlton Heston, or rather 'George Taylor' in the movie finds at the end
of the movie? Do you remember?"
Vangel: "He finds this 'chick who can't talk' with the long hair and a
set of huge bazoo... [interrupted] ... "
Mock: "No-No, Alex, I get your meaning, I mean 'AFTER' the, ehhhh,
'chick with the huge bazoons', and the END of the movie, what does
Heston or 'Taylor' SEE partly buried in the sand but easily recognizable
once the camera pans back. Remember that great scene and what it meant?"
Vangel: "Ohhhhhh, yeahhhhhhh! The camera pulls back and there's this
'big iron broad' [!] statute or whatever with some kindda', ummmmm, I
dunno, maybe one them New Orleans 'party hats' [!] with the 'spikes'
shootin' out and all and a sort of Roman 'Tojo' [! -- so much for
'Toga']] looking dress. She kindda' looked like, ummmm, Madonna [!] in
drag or somebody tryin' to hail a cab in one of them big cities and
[interrupted] ... ."
Mock: "Alex, may I ask you a personal question?"
Vangel: "Sure, Mr. Mock."
Mock: "Are you .... married ... or have any children?"
Vangel: "Nahhhhhhhh. The Movement� keeps me pretty busy what with
hau..ehhh...deliverin' Movement� and revisionist information and
material every day [** Ohh yes!] in Usenet newsgroups and not to mention
the phone duties every weekend at the Movement HQ."
Mock: [showing 'visible' relief!]: "I see." [now gazing skyward ...]
THANK YOU! And score a merciful victory for the Gene Pool!"
Vangel: "Huh? You 'swim', Mr. Mock?" [!]
;-)
ZuLu
I can tell that they were neither gassed, neither burned.
If you assume they were gassed and burned at Birkenau, prove first that gas chambers
existed at the camp and that 8,610 tons coke, or the equivalent in wood, were
requested, ordered, transported, delivered, paid and burned.
Not enough tracks to search and find such fantastic quantity of fuel?
Have 8,610 of coke vanished in 4 months?
Or, more logically, 8,610 tons coke, or the equivalent in wood, were never requested,
ordered, transported, delivered, paid and burned at Birkenau during that short period.
Prove I am wrong and show me some documents consistent with your claim about coke
consumption.
ZuLu
Ask you shrink whether a gassing cellar could coexist with 2 morgues.
What is the subject of that letter moron?
ZuLu
> In article <49d7c303$1...@news.x-privat.org>,>> m-weber escribi:
>
>>> Hell, child -- look at this Taubner verdict that is often posted
>>> here. The Supreme SS and Police Court, no less, stated in a
>>> matter-of-factly fashion "The Jews have to be exterminated" and
>>> added "the extermination of the Jews was the duty of Kommandos
>>> were set up especially for this purpose".
>
>> Taubner verdict reports a sentence and words pronounced by some
>> big nazi
>
> SS-Standartenfuehrer and SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer, states in a
> matter-of-factly manner "The Jews have to be exterminated" and
> then adds the part which you keep avoiding, "the accused should
> have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty
> of Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose".
>
> Just to bring some facts into the discussion.
So, as it is usual in courts, such jurists should have referred to some official
text, decree, law etc, to cite that such strong assertion "The Jews have to be
exterminated".
What is the official text cited as reference by those jurists, then?
ZuLu
Which evidence, kiny? I have just seen just a quote from a book.
Show me really the genuine evidence you claim.
Is that so difficult or have you something weird to hide?
Why don-t intentionalist scholars use that so strong "evidence" to shut up definitely
the functionalists?
What is the bug on it?
m-weber
> m-weber escribi:
>> It is well-known that some were sent to other destinations. But
>> that's a small part. What happened to the rest? Where are the tens
>> of thousands of infants and babies among them? Are there any records
>> and any testimonies of them released from any camp?
>>
>> Let's assume 300,000 people, from this deportation action only.
>>
>> Where are they? You just can't answer this, can you?
> I can tell that they were neither gassed, neither burned.
Your assertion above is just the founding myth of the neo-Nazi
cult you belong to. It just makes no sense.
> If you assume they were gassed and burned at Birkenau, prove first
> that gas chambers existed at the camp
A document which mentions a "gassing cellar" in an Auschwitz-Birkenau
crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Vergasungkeller.shtml
RJ11
(snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
Deal with the facts, nazi kook.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
Mass graves found at Nazi camp
Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
death camp in north-eastern Poland.
The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation
in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
</quote>
RJ.
RJ11
> Which evidence, kiny?
This, snivel. The most relevant text is underlined, so
even a retarded nazi chimp like you will be able to follow.
"The accused shall not be punished because of the actions
against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although
the accused should have recognized that the extermination of
RJ11
> Ask you shrink whether a gassing cellar could coexist with 2 morgues.
Ask your feeder whether a "gassing cellar" means a "gassing cellar",
you silly little nazi chimp.
RJ.
ZuLu
Just tell me, smarty:
Did Bischoff really want to store corpses in a "gas chamber" and an "undressing room"
when Krema II is completed?
Was he insane?
Was he deceived by the "camouflage"?
What would he do with that Vergasungkeller once the morgues are finally achieved as
planed?
ZuLu
> In article <49e8...@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu <zu...@coolrabbits.com> wrote:
>
> (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
>
Diversion, focus on the question
"Taubner court"