Interesting Goring quote

[a425couple]

From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
Göring's comments
The Mosquito famously annoyed the Commander in Chief of the
Luftwaffe, Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring, when, on 20 January 1943,
the 10th anniversary of the Nazis' seizure of power, a Mosquito attack
knocked out the main Berlin broadcasting station, putting his speech off
air.
Göring complained about the high speed of the aircraft and its wooden
structure, built by a nation he considered to have large metal reserves,
while Germany had shortages of such materials and could not produce
such a design.[90]

"In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft,
but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green
and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than
we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano
factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have
now increased yet again. What do you make of that? There is nothing
the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the
nincompoops. After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set -
then at least I'll own something that has always worked."
- Hermann Göring, 1943.[91][92]

Wait a minute. A long long time ago, (and quite recently also)
this yank delt with some British cars.....
Anyone recall the Lucas jokes?

Why didn't the Germans bomb the Lucas plants during WWII?
The Germans considered Lucas an ally.
Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices.
The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."
"And the Lord said 'let there be light'...Joseph Lucas replied 'no way,
Lord, no way'."
Lucas denies having invented darkness. But they still claim "sudden,
unexpected darkness".
Lucas--inventor of the first intermittent wiper.
Lucas--inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.
The three-position Lucas switch--DIM, FLICKER and OFF. The other three
switch settings--SMOKE, SMOLDER and IGNITE.
The original anti-theft devices--Lucas Electric products.
"I've had a Lucas pacemaker for years and have never experienced any
prob..."
If Lucas made guns, wars would not start either.
Did you hear about the Lucas powered torpedo? It sank.
It's not true that Lucas, in 1947, tried to get Parliament to repeal Ohm's
Law.
They withdrew their efforts when they met too much resistance.
Why do the English drink warm beer? Lucas made the refrigerators, too.
Alexander Graham Bell invented the Telephone. Thomas Edison invented
the Light Bulb. Joseph Lucas invented the Short Circuit.
Recommended procedure before taking on a repair of Lucas equipment:
check the position of the stars, kill a chicken and walk three times
clockwise around your car chanting: "Oh mighty Prince of Darkness
protect your unworthy servant."
Lucas Factory motto, put in a good day's work then home before dark.

[Don Phillipson]

"a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kafd8...@news1.newsguy.com...

> From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
> Göring's comments . . . "In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in

> most of my aircraft,
> but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green
> and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than
> we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano
> factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have
> now increased yet again. What do you make of that? There is nothing
> the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the
> nincompoops. After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set -
> then at least I'll own something that has always worked."
> - Hermann Göring, 1943.[91][92]

Alas, neither of these citations confirms the alleged quotation.
The latter is to a German web site no longer in operation. The former
purports to cite a PDF at www.raf.mod.uk that is no longer on line
and is not found by searching on keywords Goering, Mosquito, piano,
Brampton, Wyton (in the URL) etc. We should remain skeptical.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[a425couple]

"Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message...
> "a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
>> From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
>> G�ring's comments . . . "In 1940 I could ----

>
> Alas, neither of these citations confirms the alleged quotation.
> The latter is to a German web site no longer in operation. The former
> purports to cite a PDF at www.raf.mod.uk that is no longer on line
> and is not found by searching on keywords Goering, Mosquito, piano,
> Brampton, Wyton (in the URL) etc. We should remain skeptical.

You are right. I should have been more skeptical.
I am sorry.

Meanwhile on this I have tried using the "edit" feature
on wikipedia, to put in a warning. It shows up on
the "edit", but not on the viewing site.
Does anyone have experience doing this?

I have seen a fair number of wikipedia articles, especially
related to WWII, that have had clear errors.
So, my "gaining this skill", could help others.

[wjho...@aol.com]

On Dec 14, 10:15 am, "a425couple" wrote:
> Fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
> Göring's comments,,,,,

Goering also made a number of quotable shorter remarks.
One which a former business partner of mine who was a
German navy veteran mentioned to me was the following,
which he said was frequently used later by the German people
to throw back at Goering when Germany was on the verge of
collapse:
"No enemy bomber can reach the Ruhr. If one reaches
the Ruhr, my name is not Goering. You may call me Meyer."
The quote can be verified at "Wikiquotes--Hermann
Goring." which notes that the statement was made by
Goering in a speech to the Luftwaffe in September 1939
and that "Meyer" (or "Meier") was a common name in
Germany.
Wiki further notes: "...the statement came back to haunt
him as Allied bombers devastated Germany; many ordinary
Germans, especially in Berlin, took to calling him "Meier". It
is said that he once himself introduced himself as "Meier" when
taking refuge in an air-raid shelter in Berlin."

WJH

[wjho...@aol.com]

On Dec 15, 8:33 pm, "a425couple" wrote:
>
> ....I have tried using the "edit" feature

> on wikipedia, to put in a warning. It
> shows up on the "edit", but not on the
> viewing site.
> Does anyone have experience doing this?

Yes.I have and ite takes time and patience.
After you register, create an account, and go through the security
check, you can type your
entry and, IIRC, there can be a delay before
it shows up in the appropriate place in the
Wiki blog. It is a tedious process but with
a little trial and error you can figure it
out.

> I have seen a fair number of wikipedia

> articles...related to WWII, that have had
> clear errors.

You are certainly right there. But I believe
those who operate Wiki are helpful and make
every effort to be balanced in their
presentation. So don't give up trying. You
will eventually get there but it does take
patience.

WJH

[Mario]

a425couple, 02:33, domenica 16 dicembre 2012:

>
> Meanwhile on this I have tried using the "edit" feature
> on wikipedia, to put in a warning. It shows up on
> the "edit", but not on the viewing site.
> Does anyone have experience doing this?

I have edited many W. pages both as a registered user and as
an "anonymous" user (they register the IP affress instead).

IIRC there are a few pages on certain "hot" topics that
are "locked" and subject to some form of review to avoid "wars"
between factions.


--
H

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

"Don Phillipson" <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message

news:kaht4o$5qu$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

The RAF Air Historical Branch translated a number of conferences
where Goering was present and I believe the quote comes from one
of those documents. Indeed a number of his more famous quotes
seem to be sourced to these translations. Strangely enough quotes
saying nice things about the British seem to have been then passed
around.

I cannot find the above quote, the following comes from an address
by Goering to representatives of the German aircraft industry on 13
September 1942.

"Look at the enemy. I should really like to know what you would have
said if I had given you the task two years ago of producing a fast bomber
out of wood. You would probably have asked: "How can such a thing
be built of wood?" The British are building one out of wood today. It
is naturally much less complicated, but it is fast and a constant annoyance
to me. It is quite a primitive thing, and there is not much aluminium in
it,
but it has such a high speed that our aircraft can only attack it from
favourable positions. God knows how happy I should have been if one
of you gentlemen could have built me a wooden aircraft capable of the
performance we demanded."

Goering at a conference on problems of aircraft production, on 18
March 1943,

"the British .... built a wooden aircraft at the right moment, which,
moreover, is almost incredibly superior and unrivalled in speed. Today
these aircraft stooge back and forth over Germany, sometimes on
reconnaissance, but at others not hesitating to carry out very heavy
attacks without incurring the slightest loss."

The Glasgow quote does fit a pattern, we do know the Luftwaffe command
became quite obsessed with shooting down Mosquitoes.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

[emmanue...@gmail.com]

The "nincompoop" part of the quote appears to be lifted from another speech.
According the Pritchard, in "The Radar War", p.217 (who in turn references it
to Irving, "The rise and fall of the Luftwaffe, p.247) it comes from a speech
on 8 October 1943 in which G�ring complained about the devastating effect
of "Window" on the German nightfighter defenses:

"In the field of radar they must have the world's greatest genius. They have
the geniuses and we have the nincompoops... The British would never have
dared to use the metal foil here if they had not worked out one hundred
percent what the antidote is. I hate the rogues like the plague, but in one
respect I am obliged to doff my cap to them. After the war is over I am going
to buy myself a British radio set, as a token of my regard for their high
frequency work. Then at last I'll have the luxury of owning something
that has always worked."

Ironically, although G�ring was right about the increasing superiority of
British radar, he was wrong about Window. The RAF had no antidote,
but Leigh-Mallory at Fighter Command was willing to accept the risk,
as it was agreed that at this stage in the war, the benefits to Bomber
Command were more important. G�ring was projecting his own
unwillingness to allow even a discussion of the use of "D�ppel" onto
the RAF.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

<emmanue...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:72f5cef2-7c5f-4b2c...@googlegroups.com...

> The "nincompoop" part of the quote appears to be lifted from another
> speech.
> According the Pritchard, in "The Radar War", p.217 (who in turn references
> it
> to Irving, "The rise and fall of the Luftwaffe, p.247) it comes from a
> speech

> on 8 October 1943 in which Göring complained about the devastating effect

> of "Window" on the German nightfighter defenses:
>
> "In the field of radar they must have the world's greatest genius. They
> have
> the geniuses and we have the nincompoops... The British would never have
> dared to use the metal foil here if they had not worked out one hundred
> percent what the antidote is. I hate the rogues like the plague, but in
> one
> respect I am obliged to doff my cap to them. After the war is over I am
> going
> to buy myself a British radio set, as a token of my regard for their high
> frequency work. Then at last I'll have the luxury of owning something
> that has always worked."
>

> Ironically, although Göring was right about the increasing superiority of

> British radar, he was wrong about Window. The RAF had no antidote,
> but Leigh-Mallory at Fighter Command was willing to accept the risk,
> as it was agreed that at this stage in the war, the benefits to Bomber

> Command were more important. Göring was projecting his own
> unwillingness to allow even a discussion of the use of "Düppel" onto
> the RAF.

I think you will find as of mid 1943 the RAF did have some radar sets,
both ground and airborne that could cope to an extent with Window
but they were a minority.

As the year progressed more of the better sets were built and they certainly
improved the situation. The first Mosquito XIII with the AI mark VIII were
built in September 1943 while the first Mosquito XVII with AI mark X or
rather the US set SCR720/729 was built in May 1943. So the centimetric
sets were arriving and they had more resistance to jamming.

By end September 1943 all 100 Mosquito XVII had been built, plus 13
mark XIII. Not enough for the entire night fighter force in England but a
good start. Ultimately 270 mark XIII were built.

Of course the continued use of the technique today shows there was no
radar set truly immune to the correct sized reflectors.

The Germans used Window during the baby blitz and it caused problems
but they did not achieve the large concentrations the allies used. The
night
fighters with the newer sets did well, given the better radar performance
and resistance to jamming.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Addition time.
"Geoffrey Sinclair" <gsinc...@froggy.com.au> wrote in message
news:M5idnVej8ZHZqnnN...@westnet.com.au...

> The first Mosquito XIII with the AI mark VIII were
> built in September 1943 while the first Mosquito XVII with AI mark X or
> rather the US set SCR720/729 was built in May 1943. So the centimetric
> sets were arriving and they had more resistance to jamming.
>
> By end September 1943 all 100 Mosquito XVII had been built, plus 13
> mark XIII. Not enough for the entire night fighter force in England but a
> good start. Ultimately 270 mark XIII were built.

What I failed to mention were the mark XII, which also had AI mark VIII,
all up 97 built, starting with 1 in October 1942 then 1 in December 1942
then the rest between January and June 1943.

[a425couple]

<emmanue...@gmail.com> wrote in message...

> The "nincompoop" part of the quote appears to be lifted from another
> speech.
> According the Pritchard, in "The Radar War", p.217 (who in turn references
> it
> to Irving, "The rise and fall of the Luftwaffe, p.247) it comes from a
> speech

> on 8 October 1943 in which Göring complained ---

Thank you very much for providing something
that appears very well cited and reliable.

[Emmanuel Gustin]

It is true that the British centimetric radar sets, with their better resolution
and "clutter" suppression, were less vulnerable to "Window." But Derek
Jackson, a physicist "boffin" who was a wartime Wing Commander, and
who was tasked with studying the subject, nevertheless confirmed that
British night defenses were vulnerable in two reports in 1942.

The development that changed Jackson's view was AI Mk.X, i.e. the
American SCR720 radar. An evaluation of a prototype set in early 1943
convinced Jackson that it enabled intercepts in the presence of Window,
mostly because of its superior display unit with one tube showing range
and azimuth, and another elevation and azimuth. (AI Mk.VIII used
a single tube combining all three.) Jackson personally flew the first
operational patrol of a Mosquito equipped with AI Mk.X, in May 43.

The RAF decided to risk the operational use of "Window" a few months
later. AI Mk.X, a fortunate combination of British technology and
American engineering, would be used by the RAF well in the 1950s.
But even if the AI radars were now less vulnerable to this form of
jamming, the vital CGI radars on the ground still were.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

"Emmanuel Gustin" <emmanue...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a3496749-a6ee-481b...@googlegroups.com...

> But even if the AI radars were now less vulnerable to this form of
> jamming, the vital CGI radars on the ground still were.

Agreed the AI radars were in fact making greater strides in dealing
with window. Also the AA radar sets. I thought the ground based
sets were also being upgraded, but of course cannot find the details
at the moment.

Essentially there was an upgrade of all radar sets from 1942 on, and
things were better in 1944 than 1943. As noted before window can
still fool modern radars, and in 1944 the Germans failed to achieve
concentrations needed.

[Bay Man]

<wjho...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:27074710-6194-436a...@k6g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

> You are certainly right there. But I believe
> those who operate Wiki are helpful and make
> every effort to be balanced in their
> presentation. So don't give up trying. You
> will eventually get there but it does take
> patience.

Wiki? Treat with caution.