Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
Sam Sloan
Queen Victoria, next to Queen Elizabeth I, is regarded as the greatest
British monarch ever. However, her great tragedy is that she carried
with her the gene for hemophilia. Hemophilia is a blood clotting
disease which is caused by a defective X chromosome. Women have two
chromosomes. Men have only one. For this reason, men are much more
likely to have hemophilia than women, because if one X chromosome in a
woman is defective and the other is OK, she will not get hemophilia.
Victims of hemophilia often die at an early age, so men with this
disease rarely live long enough to reproduce.
A woman has two X-chromosomes but only one of them goes to each child.
This means that half of the male children of a female hemophilia
carrier will have the disease and half of the female children will
carry the disease but will not get it.
The only way a woman can suffer from hemophilia is to get the
defective gene from both of her parents. By far the most likely way
for this to happen would be for her parents to be related to each
other. For this reason, almost all societies have incest taboos that
brothers and sisters cannot marry each other, because of the
possibility of hemophilia and other genetic diseases.
It is also not a good idea for cousins to marry each other. However,
in Middle Eastern Countries like India it is still common for cousins
to marry. This is done because of the dowry system and to keep the
money in the family. It was also common until recently in Europe and
in Colonial America. For example, Thomas Jefferson married both of his
white daughters to their cousins. This was done because it was thought
to strengthen the purity of the blood.
The Royal Families of Europe at that time were almost required to
marry each other. For example, if a girl was a princess, she had to
marry a prince. He did not have to be a prince from her own country,
however. For example, a princess of England could marry a prince of
Spain, of France, of Germany or of any other place. It did not matter
what he was a prince of, as long as he was a prince of something.
Disaster struck when Queen Victoria turned out to be a carrier of the
defective X-chromosome which carries a gene for hemophilia. Queen
Victoria had nine children and all of them married into the royal
families of various countries of Europe. In this way, all of the Royal
Families of Europe caught the gene for hemophilia.
For example, Queen Victoria had a daughter named Alice Maud Mary,
Princess of SAXE-COBURG. Her daughter was Alexandre Fedorovna, Czarina
of Russia. She married Czar Nicholas II of Russia and their son was
Alexis Nicolaievich Romanov, who had hemophilia.
As can be seen from this example, the defective X-chromosome can be
carried hidden down an unbroken line of females until a male child is
born who is afflicted with the disease.
It has often been stated that hemophilia hit the Royal Families of
Europe because of inbreeding. However, this was not really true.
First, it was a common practice among all families of Europe, both
high and low, to marry cousins. Also, the royal families of Europe
were not really that inbred. The fact that a princess from Germany
could marry a prince from Russia provided more diversification than
perhaps could be enjoyed by common people, who usually married within
their own town or village.
An often unnoticed fact about the case of Queen Victoria is that she
was the first member of European Royalty to carry the gene of
hemophilia. The question then arises: From where did she get that
gene?
The inescapable conclusion is that, since no other member of European
Royalty prior to Queen Victoria had hemophilia, this must mean that
some unknown man who was not royalty popped her mother. In other
words, stated differently, Queen Victoria was a bastard! More than
that, since virtually the entire European royalty is descended from
Queen Victoria, this means that all of the Royal Families of Europe
are bastards! (Of course, we already knew that!)
Now, the question is: From where did this bastard gene originate?
While the defective X-chromosome could have come from a long way up
the female line, it turns out that we do not have to look far to find
a likely suspect, because something seems to be strange or irregular
about Queen Victoria's father. Her supposed father was Edward
Augustus, son of King George III. (You remember him. He was the one
who lost the colonies.) Edward Augustus was born 2 November 1767 and
died 23 January 1820. He married only once. That was to Victoria Mary
Louisa of SAXE-COBURG, whom he married on 11 July 1818. She was the
mother of Queen Victoria, who was born on 24 May 1819. She was the
only child.
Doesn't this seem a bit strange? Edward Augustus was the son of the
King of England. He presumably could have had any woman he wanted.
King George I, King George II and King George III were all known to
have had many mistresses and illegitimate children. Yet, Edward
Augustus, who would have been the King of England had he lived longer,
did not get married until age 51, and then fathered a child who was
born only ten months after he got married, and then he died only eight
months after Victoria, the future queen, was born.
What do I think? I think that Edward Augustus was a gay blade who got
married as a cover up and that he was not Queen Victoria's real
father. I think that Queen Victoria's real father was an unknown
hemophiliac who died probably very soon after fathering Victoria and
almost certainly was dead by the time that Queen Victoria was born.
What do you think?
Sam Sloan
http://www.samsloan.com/secret.htm
http://www.ishipress.com/royalfam/pafg18.htm#34
http://www.shamema.com/tatjana.htm
d wilcox
about Thomas Jefferson and Bonnie Prince Charlie and all those other
totally fascinating (yawn) subjects? (yawn)
canberra
My apologies to sound horrible, but you asked what we think. Altogether your
message is so obviously coming from someone who is a Johnny-come-lately,
thinking he has all the details. Also you should not have sent this message
to gen-medieval as this is way out of our topics. Therefor I will address
only one aspect :
Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent, being a gay blade who married to cover up?
He had a mistress, Julie de Saint Laurent, for some 25 years. In the last
twenty years the archives of a European bank found in their archives the
proof that this Duke had fathered at least one illegitimate child and,
through this bank, had mad provisions to provide for this child.
Edward Augustus suffered from porphyria, not as badly as his father, and it
is also recently suggested that Victoria suffered from it as well.
Enough said, please, go the the correct forum.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Origiinal Message -----
From: "Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
William Addams Reitwiesner
>Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
<chomp>
>What do I think? I think that Edward Augustus was a gay blade who got
>married as a cover up and that he was not Queen Victoria's real
>father. I think that Queen Victoria's real father was an unknown
>hemophiliac who died probably very soon after fathering Victoria and
>almost certainly was dead by the time that Queen Victoria was born.
>
>What do you think?
I think you haven't looked at the entries in the parish registers and in
the Hausarchives for what is said in the death records of the brothers of
Queen Victoria's maternal grandmother.
Since they're not too hard to find (and not too relevant to
soc.genealogy.medieval), I won't say more about them here :)
--
Ceterum censeo DSH delendam esse.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
mikelongworth
>
> Is this the same sam sloan who started that unbelievably stupid thread
> about Thomas Jefferson and Bonnie Prince Charlie and all those other
> totally fascinating (yawn) subjects? (yawn)
<
So why on earth did you then post the whole of the offending message?
Don't you know net etiquette suggests you should only quote enough of a
previous posting to make sense of your reply!
--
Mike LONGWORTH, Yateley, Hampshire, UK
Sam Sloan
>
>>What do I think? I think that Edward Augustus was a gay blade who got
>>married as a cover up and that he was not Queen Victoria's real
>>father. I think that Queen Victoria's real father was an unknown
>>hemophiliac who died probably very soon after fathering Victoria and
>>almost certainly was dead by the time that Queen Victoria was born.
>>
>>What do you think?
>
>the Hausarchives for what is said in the death records of the brothers of
>Queen Victoria's maternal grandmother.
>
>Since they're not too hard to find (and not too relevant to
>soc.genealogy.medieval), I won't say more about them here :)
>
>
>
>--
>Ceterum censeo DSH delendam esse.
>
>William Addams Reitwiesner
>wr...@erols.com
You are absolutely correct. I have not looked at the entries in the
parish registers and in the Hausarchives for what is said in the death
records of the brothers of Queen Victoria's maternal grandmother.
The maternal grandmother of Queen Victoria was Augusta Carolina
(1757-1831). Her father was Henry XXIV.
I take it from your comment that the brothers of Augusta Carolina died
from hemophilia related diseases. I do not have any brothers for her
in my database, so I will have to search. That would certainly solve
the question of where Queen Victoria got the gene for hemophilia from.
To those of you who do not know, William Addams Reitwiesner works for
the Library of Congress and is presently writing a book on the
genealogy of that poor, unfortunate, mentally retarded moron in the
White House, so he tends to know what he is talking and his comments
are deserving of the highest respect.
Sam Sloan
G. Leisen
hemophilia, then how do you conclude that Victoria was a bastard? If
Victoria was a carrier of the hemphilia x-gene, then it can be concluded
that her mother was also a carrier. A better theory to pursue is to trace
the female ancestors of Victoria and determine whether there were any early,
unexplained deaths of young boys among one of the ancestor's brothers. For,
in those days, the males born with this defect, freqientlydid not live to an
adult age.
Gretchen L.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Sloan <sl...@ishipress.com>
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:51 AM
Subject: Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
>Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
>
>What do I think? I think that Edward Augustus was a gay blade who got
>married as a cover up and that he was not Queen Victoria's real
>father. I think that Queen Victoria's real father was an unknown
>hemophiliac who died probably very soon after fathering Victoria and
>almost certainly was dead by the time that Queen Victoria was born.
>
>What do you think?
>
>Sam Sloan
>http://www.samsloan.com/secret.htm
>http://www.ishipress.com/royalfam/pafg18.htm#34
>http://www.shamema.com/tatjana.htm
>
>______________________________
Renia
> Dear Sam,
> My apologies to sound horrible, but you asked what we think. Altogether your
> message is so obviously coming from someone who is a Johnny-come-lately,
> thinking he has all the details. Also you should not have sent this message
> to gen-medieval as this is way out of our topics. Therefor I will address
> only one aspect :
>
> Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent, being a gay blade who married to cover up?
> He had a mistress, Julie de Saint Laurent, for some 25 years. In the last
> twenty years the archives of a European bank found in their archives the
> proof that this Duke had fathered at least one illegitimate child and,
> through this bank, had mad provisions to provide for this child.
>
> Edward Augustus suffered from porphyria, not as badly as his father, and it
> is also recently suggested that Victoria suffered from it as well.
As do and did some of her descendants, and others of her ancestors.
> Enough said, please, go the the correct forum.
> Best wishes
> Leo van de Pas
Quite.
Renia
Sam Sloan
>Dear Sam,
>My apologies to sound horrible, but you asked what we think. Altogether your
>message is so obviously coming from someone who is a Johnny-come-lately,
>thinking he has all the details.
I do not think that I have all the details. I am a beginner at this. I
do not know. I am just asking a question.
I am not in high school, either, but most of what I know about this
subject comes from high school history, which I studied 40 years ago.
I have a good memory and rarely forget anything.
So, I am just asking. I want to learn. For example, in my inquiry
about Bonnie Prince Charlie, I found out that there is a body of
opinion that he was entirely a fake and that he was not Bonnie, nor
was he a Prince, nor was his name Charlie.
So, I am only asking a question, hoping that somebody else has the
answer.
Sam Sloan
Stavros
> Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
>
>>
> >
> >
> defective X-chromosome which carries a gene for hemophilia. Queen
> Victoria had nine children and all of them married into the royal
> families of various countries of Europe. In this way, all of the Royal
> Families of Europe caught the gene for hemophilia.
Not all of the Royal Families received the disease.
Greece did not.
canberra
Subject: Re: Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
> At 12:19 PM 11/13/2001 GMT, William Addams Reitwiesner wrote:
> >sl...@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote:
> >
<Chomp again>
> To those of you who do not know, William Addams Reitwiesner works for
> the Library of Congress and is presently writing a book on the
> genealogy of that poor, unfortunate, mentally retarded moron in the
> White House, so he tends to know what he is talking and his comments
> are deserving of the highest respect.
>
> Sam Sloan
.............Sam, what a way to talk about the President of the USA. I find
your remarks quite offensive and I am not an American. You may disagree with
him, disapprove of him but by no way of the imagination should you describe
him the way you have. After several of your subjects, I can only see that
you waste an awful lot of time for many people.
Leo van de Pas
d wilcox
Roz Griston
Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's
big snip
What do I think? I think that Edward Augustus was a gay blade who got
married as a cover up and that he was not Queen Victoria's real
father. I think that Queen Victoria's real father was an unknown
hemophiliac who died probably very soon after fathering Victoria and
almost certainly was dead by the time that Queen Victoria was born.
What do you think?
Sam Sloan
sam, i think you are way off topic..THINK 1600's and earlier.
i also think you should be applying for a job at the national enquirer.
if you want to investigate a scandal and stay on topic..there are
several "cover-ups" prior to 1600.
here's some good leads..dateline 1603 and before..
should james i have succeeded elizabeth i? she didn't have a will. she
never publically named an heir to the throne and it was traitorous to
discuss who would succeed her.
was elizabeth i really a woman? rumour has it she was the castrated
illegimate son of henry viii.
who murdered the princes in the tower richard iii or henry vii?
i'm sure other members of this forum can give you lots and lots of
leads to medieval scandals.
solve the mystery of amy gaveston's mother. prove richard the lion
heart was queer or at least had bisexual tendencies. lots of troll bait
available in the medieval mysteries department.
or THINK and then put into action a colonial era rootsweb list and you
won't be off topic..or out of time frame.
there is a demand for a colonial list. if you build it they will
come.:-))
have fun.
roz
Sam Sloan
How did you know who I was writing about? I never mentioned "the
President of the USA".
If the shoe fits, wear it!
Here in New York City, when I talk about "Our Beloved Fascist
Dictator", every New York City resident knows exactly who I am talking
about. I do not have to say his name. If somebody even has to ask who
that is, we all know that that person does not live in New York City.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
>See in between
>Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 12:50 AM
>Subject: Re: Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
>
>
>> At 06:21 PM 11/13/2001 +0800, canberra <leov...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> >Dear Sam,
>> >My apologies to sound horrible, but you asked what we think. Altogether
>your
>> >message is so obviously coming from someone who is a Johnny-come-lately,
>> >thinking he has all the details.
>>
>> I do not think that I have all the details. I am a beginner at this. I do
>> not know. I am just asking a question.
>>
>> I am not in high school, either, but most of what I know about this
>subject
>> comes from high school history, which I studied 40 years ago.
>==========Are you American? I am surprised if Victoria was mentioned in any
>detail in an American school. And surely in an English school they would not
>have mentioned any of "that kind" of details.
Yes. I am American. When I was in tenth grade in Boonesboro School in
Bedford County Virginia, when I was 14 years old, I read a book on the
British Monarchy. It may have been for a book report. It was for Miss
Carrie Brokenboro's class. After reading the book, I could recite the
name and order of every monarch in British History, including Alerfort
the Unready (my favorite British monarch, of course).
> I have a good
>> memory and rarely forget anything.
>>
>> So, I am just asking. I want to learn. For example, in my inquiry about
>> Bonnie Prince Charlie, I found out that there is a body of opinion that he
>> was entirely a fake and that he was not Bonnie, nor was he a Prince, nor
>> was his name Charlie.
>========The name of Doris Day is not Doris Day, the name of John Wayne is
>not John Wayne, the name of Cary Grant is not Cary Grant; those names are
>only the names they became famous by, and so did Bonnie Prince Charlie.
>
>> So, I am only asking a question, hoping that somebody else has the answer.
>========Again go to the correct place for such a query.
>Leo van de Pas
By the way, in creating my family trees, I found out that President
Ronald Reagan was never married to a woman named Nancy Davis, nor was
he ever married to Jane Wyman.
President Reagan was married to first to Sarah Jane Mayfield and then
to Anne Frances Robbins.
Sam Sloan
http://www.ishipress.com/pafx2.htm
Barry Ruck
<dwi...@lightage.demon.co.uk> sharpened a new quill and wrote ...
>Is this the same sam sloan who started that unbelievably stupid thread
>about Thomas Jefferson and Bonnie Prince Charlie and all those other
>totally fascinating (yawn) subjects? (yawn)
>
Thanks for reposting the whole diatribe. I had him killfiled.
--
Regards,
Barry Ruck. Harlow, Essex. U.K.
Ruck,(Glos. & Lincs) Gostelow,Goddard & Eley (Lincs)
1881 Census, 1851 Devon/Norfolk/Warwick Census & British Vital Records Lookups
1851 2% sample and Gloucestershire Census lookups
email: loo...@peterswoodharlow.freeserve.co.uk
James P. Robinson III
the killfile to make a return.
Jim
--
=================================================
James P. Robinson III jpro...@ix.netcom.com
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with
an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given in writing.
=================================================
James P. Robinson III
off-topic drivel.
Jim
As the clock struck 09:51 AM 11/13/2001 +0000, d wilcox took pen in hand
and wrote:
>Is this the same sam sloan who started that unbelievably stupid thread
>about Thomas Jefferson and Bonnie Prince Charlie and all those other
>totally fascinating (yawn) subjects? (yawn)
>
>Sam Sloan wrote:
li...@orc.net
> How did you know who I was writing about? I never mentioned "the
> President of the USA".
> If the shoe fits, wear it!
> Here in New York City, when I talk about "Our Beloved Fascist
> Dictator", every New York City resident knows exactly who I am talking
> about. I do not have to say his name. If somebody even has to ask who
> that is, we all know that that person does not live in New York City.
> Sam Sloan
You know, that's an interesting point.
For example, if I were to refer to "the resident pedophiliac on the chess
newsgroups" do you think there would be substantial doubt as to whom I'm
referring?
Hank C
subject comes from high school history, which I studied 40 years ago.
I have a good memory and rarely forget anything.>
And if he DOES forget anything, he forgets the fact that he forgot it !!
Sam Sloan wrote:
--
Hank C
Boston
USA
Sam Sloan
This is a very good list. Thank you so very much.
Sam Sloan
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> What do I think?
I think you need to stop this idiotic crossposting.
I also think you shouldn't dabble in genetics as a playtoy for
your overactive imagination. But this too is OFF TOPIC.
taf
li...@orc.net
> In nyc.politics li...@orc.net wrote:
> # In rec.games.chess.politics Sam Sloan <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote:
> #
> # > How did you know who I was writing about? I never mentioned "the
> # > President of the USA".
> #
> # > If the shoe fits, wear it!
> #
> # > Here in New York City, when I talk about "Our Beloved Fascist
> # > Dictator", every New York City resident knows exactly who I am talking
> # > about. I do not have to say his name. If somebody even has to ask who
> # > that is, we all know that that person does not live in New York City.
> #
> # > Sam Sloan
> #
> # You know, that's an interesting point.
> #
> # For example, if I were to refer to "the resident pedophiliac on the chess
> # newsgroups" do you think there would be substantial doubt as to whom I'm
> # referring?
> Who would that be?
You know...
Roz Griston
>or THINK and then put into action a colonial era rootsweb list and you
>won't be off topic..or out of time frame.
>
>there is a demand for a colonial list. if you build it they will
>come.:-))
>
>have fun.
>
>roz
This is a very good list. Thank you so very much.
Sam Sloan
yes it is sam..but you are off topic/era. a colonial era list will draw
a percentage of ppl who already participate here..but, currently
respect the guidelines of..medieval era.
i lack tech/computer skills..or i would have started a colonial list a
while back when ppl were calling for you to drop the jefferson issue
because it was out of era/off topic. there needs to be a venue for
discussion. as you keep graviating towards it..perhaps, you or someone
else can start it.
roz
li...@orc.net
> # > In nyc.politics li...@orc.net wrote:
> # > #
> # > # referring?
> #
> # > Who would that be?
> #
> # You know...
> Nope. I only see the chess group when SammyBoy crossposts
> to totally unrelated groups. He's wacky alright.
> But "pedophiliac"?
> Of course, you're the person afflicted with the mental
> condition of never admitting when you're wrong.
> You both deserve each other.
I did not say that I was referring to Sammy.
William Addams Reitwiesner
<chomp>
>You are absolutely correct. I have not looked at the entries in the
>parish registers and in the Hausarchives for what is said in the death
>records of the brothers of Queen Victoria's maternal grandmother.
>
>The maternal grandmother of Queen Victoria was Augusta Carolina
>(1757-1831). Her father was Henry XXIV.
>
>I take it from your comment that the brothers of Augusta Carolina died
>from hemophilia related diseases. I do not have any brothers for her
>in my database, so I will have to search. That would certainly solve
>the question of where Queen Victoria got the gene for hemophilia from.
Notice that I did not say that Augusta Carolina's brothers died from
hemophilia-related diseases. I just stated that you haven't seen their
death records. From what you said, I could tell that you were doing
nothing more than parroting someone else's derivative works. That activity
(parroting the derivative works of others) is what leads to messes like the
Ancestral File.
>To those of you who do not know, William Addams Reitwiesner works for
>the Library of Congress and is presently writing a book on the
>genealogy of that poor, unfortunate, mentally retarded moron in the
>White House, so he tends to know what he is talking and his comments
>are deserving of the highest respect.
Wow. In addition to parroting the derivative works of others, you just
make stuff up. It's true that in the past I was employed by the Library of
Congress, but as for where I'm working now, I'd rather not say.
And what does my employer (if any) have to do with my abilities (if any)?
I don't know which mental defective in the White House you're referring to,
but the book I'm writing now has nothing to do with any USAian.
And neither this alleged White House moron nor I lived in the Medieval time
period.
Arthur Murata
example, genes for hemophelia and other genetic disorders
might arise spontaneously as mutations - they have to begin
somewhere. I am not a geneticist by any means, but I seem
to recall such things from grade school biology.
Secondly, perhaps someone knows at what point hemophilia
would have been described as such. When would such a death
be correctly diagnosed in European history? Perhaps young
hemophiliacs were simply regarded as "sickly" or "weak";
after all, one cannot see potentially lethal internal
bleeding, as from a bruise to the torso, in a hemophiliac.
Third, the royal families of Europe had been marrying one
another for a very long time, long before Victoria's day.
The gene for hemophilia may have been traveling around the
Western and Eastern empires long ago, eventually getting
too close to one another in blood. I vaguely recall hearing
comments about pre-medieval cases of hemophilia that were
diagnosed in retrospect.
Finally, a geneticist might be able to shed some light on
this since my recollections are entirely superficial, but I
recall hearing in college that sickle-cell anemia gave some
degree of protection against malaria where it was endemic
and only began to kill the carriers of the gene when they
were no longer in an area where malaria was common. The
professor theorized that many of the gene pool-specific
maladies - sickle-cell, Tay-Sachs, etc. - originally
functioned to protect and only became lethal out of
context.
Could this be the case for hemophilia as well?
I don't know the answer to "Victoria's Secret" (and it is
possible that she did not know the answer herself), but
these are just some thoughts about whether or not Victoria
being born a bastard is the inescapable conclusion .
Best, Bronwen Edwards
> Disaster struck when Queen Victoria turned out to be a
> carrier of the
> defective X-chromosome which carries a gene for
> hemophilia. Queen
> Victoria had nine children and all of them married into
> the royal
> families of various countries of Europe. In this way, all
> of the Royal
> Families of Europe caught the gene for hemophilia.
>
> For example, Queen Victoria had a daughter named Alice
> Maud Mary,
> Princess of SAXE-COBURG. Her daughter was Alexandre
> Fedorovna, Czarina
> of Russia. She married Czar Nicholas II of Russia and
> their son was
> Alexis Nicolaievich Romanov, who had hemophilia.
>
> As can be seen from this example, the defective
> X-chromosome can be
> carried hidden down an unbroken line of females until a
> male child is
> born who is afflicted with the disease.
>
> It has often been stated that hemophilia hit the Royal
> Families of
> Queen Victoria, this means that all of the Royal Families
> of Europe
> What do I think? I think that Edward Augustus was a gay
> blade who got
> married as a cover up and that he was not Queen
> Victoria's real
> father. I think that Queen Victoria's real father was an
> unknown
> hemophiliac who died probably very soon after fathering
> Victoria and
> almost certainly was dead by the time that Queen Victoria
> was born.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Sam Sloan
> http://www.samsloan.com/secret.htm
> http://www.ishipress.com/royalfam/pafg18.htm#34
> http://www.shamema.com/tatjana.htm
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com
canberra
think William Addams Reitwiesner is collecting information? A Secretary?
This is not a case of if the shoe fits.............you clearly spelled out
about whom you were talking. Stop this crap, it is off-topic and a waste of
time.
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
> At 01:11 AM 11/14/2001 +0800, canberra <leov...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >Sam Sloan this time you have done it, see below.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com>
> >To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:02 PM
> >Subject: Re: Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
> >
> >
> >> At 12:19 PM 11/13/2001 GMT, William Addams Reitwiesner wrote:
> >> >sl...@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote:
> >> >
> ><Chomp again>
> >
> >> To those of you who do not know, William Addams Reitwiesner works for
> >> the Library of Congress and is presently writing a book on the
> >> genealogy of that poor, unfortunate, mentally retarded moron in the
> >> White House, so he tends to know what he is talking and his comments
> >> are deserving of the highest respect.
> >>
> >> Sam Sloan
> >.............Sam, what a way to talk about the President of the USA. I
find
> >your remarks quite offensive and I am not an American. You may disagree
with
> >him, disapprove of him but by no way of the imagination should you
describe
> >him the way you have. After several of your subjects, I can only see that
> >you waste an awful lot of time for many people.
> >Leo van de Pas
>
> How did you know who I was writing about? I never mentioned "the
> President of the USA".
>
> If the shoe fits, wear it!
>
> Here in New York City, when I talk about "Our Beloved Fascist
> Dictator", every New York City resident knows exactly who I am talking
> about. I do not have to say his name. If somebody even has to ask who
> that is, we all know that that person does not live in New York City.
>
> Sam Sloan
>
A Tsar Is Born
news:3bf0df03...@ca.news.verio.net...
> Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
>
> British monarch ever.
By whom? Not by anyone I ever met, on this ng or elsewhere.
(My own candidates: Henry II, Edward I.)
> men with this
> disease rarely live long enough to reproduce.
Precisely. And if the only way it came into existence were by inheritance
from a parent, it would long since have vanished from the world. But it's
not. It comes into existence by genetic mutation. You've never read an
elementary text on heredity, have you, Sam?
> It has often been stated that hemophilia hit the Royal Families of
> Europe because of inbreeding.
No it hasn't. It's stated that they got it from marrying granddaughters of
Queen Victoria. In Alfonso XIII's case, he was only very very very very
distantly related to his wife.
> An often unnoticed fact about the case of Queen Victoria is that she
> was the first member of European Royalty to carry the gene of
> hemophilia. The question then arises: From where did she get that
> gene?
Actually it's often noticed.
> The inescapable conclusion is that, since no other member of European
> Royalty prior to Queen Victoria had hemophilia, this must mean that
> some unknown man who was not royalty popped her mother.
No, it means that she was a mutant or her mother was a mutant. This is quite
normal.
> While the defective X-chromosome could have come from a long way up
> the female line, it turns out that we do not have to look far to find
> a likely suspect, because something seems to be strange or irregular
> about Queen Victoria's father. Her supposed father was Edward
> Augustus, son of King George III. (You remember him. He was the one
> who lost the colonies.) Edward Augustus was born 2 November 1767 and
> died 23 January 1820. He married only once. That was to Victoria Mary
> Louisa of SAXE-COBURG, whom he married on 11 July 1818. She was the
> mother of Queen Victoria, who was born on 24 May 1819. She was the
> only child.
>
> Doesn't this seem a bit strange?
No. Four of his six brothers were also unmarried at that time and got
married then, for the same reason he did: Parliament wouldn't give them
allowances unless they did. In Edward's case, this meant the end of a long
and happy love affair with a French lady.
>Edward Augustus was the son of the
> King of England. He presumably could have had any woman he wanted.
No. Only a Protestant princess. There weren't many. His father would have
forbidden him any other bride.
> King George I, King George II and King George III were all known to
> have had many mistresses and illegitimate children.
Yeah? Name one.
George I had one mistress and no children by her. (He was quite monogamous.)
George II had many mistresses but no recorded bastards.
George III never had a mistress or a bastard. (He was entirely monagamous.)
> What do I think?
Do you actually think?
> What do you think?
I think you're an idiot. Everyone here thinks that.
Read a book, Sam. It wouldn't kill you. Even if you're hemophiliac.
Jean Coeur de Lapin
atsar...@hotmail.com
mikelongworth
>
> Ooohh pardon me for breathing!!!
>
How nice of you to take it so graciously.
Sam Sloan
someone else. I am not copying anybody else. I thought of this myself.
If you get to know me better you will learn as most chess players will
tell you that I virtually never copy anybody. If somebody else has
already said something, I will let him say it, and I will give him
credit for the idea if the occasion arises.
PS I did actually copy your genealogy of our great and fearless
leader, which is probably where you got this idea, but that is a
different situation.
Sam Sloan
At 11:12 PM 11/13/2001 GMT, William Addams Reitwiesner wrote:
>Notice that I did not say that Augusta Carolina's brothers died from
>hemophilia-related diseases. I just stated that you haven't seen their
>death records. From what you said, I could tell that you were doing
>nothing more than parroting someone else's derivative works. That activity
>(parroting the derivative works of others) is what leads to messes like the
>Ancestral File.
[snip]
Charles Ellson
sl...@ishipress.com "Sam Sloan" wrote:
> Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
>
> Queen Victoria, next to Queen Elizabeth I, is regarded as the greatest
> British monarch ever.
>
Queen Elizabeth I a British monarch?
Fallen at the first fence.
<snip>
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson:E-mail charlesATellson.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
Kevan L. Barton
You are correct in all that you say, at least from my meager understanding
of the topic. There is an outstanding book on the broader subject which
does cover the relationship between malaria and anemia. And it reads
extremely well despite the topic. I highly recommend it. Anyway, here it
is:
Edward O. Wilson, "The Diversity of Life" (Cambridge, Mass.: The Belknap
Press of Harvard University Press, 1991) ISBN: 0-674-21298-3
Good reading! By the way the author is a double Pulitzer prize winner.
Kevan
LED
welcome back liam......so when are you taking me out to dinner
......by the way...you still owe me that $10 money order.......
li...@orc.net
For what? Deja, please. If I owe you, I owe you. I've forgotten.
William Addams Reitwiesner
>I just want to correct your one point where you say that I am copying
>someone else. I am not copying anybody else. I thought of this myself.
>
>If you get to know me better you will learn as most chess players will
>tell you that I virtually never copy anybody. If somebody else has
>already said something, I will let him say it, and I will give him
>credit for the idea if the occasion arises.
The book "Queen Victoria's Gene", by the Potts brothers, published in July
1995 and republished in paperback in March 1999, describes an identical
scenario to what you suggest, and names the alleged father. At both times,
most major media outlets worldwide mentioned the story as "filler", because
suggesting illegitimacies in Royal families is always tittilating.
Sam Sloan
mistaken but I
think he is referring to another of his favorite targets.
The person he is referring to is a well known chess personality. For
obvious reasons, I cannot say more than that.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
Thank you for pointing this out. However, I never heard of this book.
It is of course entirely possible that somebody else could come up
with the same idea that I had, before I had it.
Checking my own website, I just discovered that back in 1997 I had an
online debate with Mr. Censored concerning the related issue of
hemophilia by the son of Czar Nicholas II. Take a look at
http://www.samsloan.com/anastasi.htm and the links thereto. You will
see the name of Mr. Censored there. I have more than two thousand
pages on my website and I had forgotten all about Mr. Censored, but
obviously he had not forgotten me.
Also, you will see that back in 1997 I was writing about this general
topic, although what I posted here was written by me last night. I
suppose that it is even possible that the author of the 1999 book you
mention got some of his ideas from me.
Sam Sloan
d wilcox
William Addams Reitwiesner
Yes, I can see how the authors of a 1999 book could get their ideas from a
1997 discussion of yours, especially when their 1999 book was a re-issue in
paperback of the same book which had been published in hardback in 1995
(see my earlier message above). Suuuuuure.
Do you know what a "meme" is?
Amanda Jones
Sloan) wrote:
> Also, you will see that back in 1997 I was writing about this general
> topic, although what I posted here was written by me last night. I
> suppose that it is even possible that the author of the 1999 book you
> mention got some of his ideas from me.
Drop the arrogance, and read where it says "published in July
>1995 and republished in paperback in March 1999,"
Amanda
LED
<li...@orc.net> wrote in message news:t%lI7.8833$0N4.3...@news.shore.net...
just kidding liam,....it was for my emailing you during that little incident
weeks ago......
KHF...@aol.com
I am for giving the benifit of the doubt to Sam -- because this is a very
simple thought that can occurr to different people independently at different
times. All one has to know is that Victoria exhibited the first occurance of
a hemophilia (which is know to be genetically inherited) in the royal family.
The next thought would certainly be -- well then her real father is probably
the origin. That thought would come to practically anyone.
In a message dated 11/14/01 3:51:43 AM, reitw...@stop.mail-abuse.org
writes:
Cdunn3
more likely that the gene would come
from Victoria's mother ?
>ubject: Re: Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
>From: KHF...@aol.com
>Date: 11/14/01 9:36 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <15e.3d4287...@aol.com>
CarlDunn
Sam Sloan
wrote:
> For this reason, almost all societies have incest taboos that
>brothers and sisters cannot marry each other, because of the
>possibility of hemophilia and other genetic diseases.
Trivia question: Can you name one society where brothers marry their
sisters and which does not have the incest taboo?
There is one.
Hint: Many of their members now live in California and this practice
causes no end of consternation among California Social Workers.
Sam Sloan
>
>I am for giving the benifit of the doubt to Sam -- because this is a very
>simple thought that can occurr to different people independently at
different
>times. All one has to know is that Victoria exhibited the first occurance of
>a hemophilia (which is know to be genetically inherited) in the royal
family.
>The next thought would certainly be -- well then her real father is probably
>the origin. That thought would come to practically anyone.
>
>
You are exactly right and thank you.
Sam Sloan
JKent...@aol.com
sl...@ishipress.com writes:
> All one has to know is that Victoria exhibited the first occurrence of
> >a hemophilia (which is know to be genetically inherited) in the royal
> family.
> >The next thought would certainly be -- well then her real father is
> probably
> >the origin. That thought would come to practically anyone.
> >
> >
>
> You are exactly right and thank you.
>
>
Oh, really!!!!! Sorry, but that is not the thought that came to me. What
makes you think that it was not some change in her system that made her the
very first person with hemophilia? It apparently did not show up with her
father in his lifetime if I have been following this correctly. Let's quit
beating a dead horse and move on to something productive.
Jno
Amanda Jones
Sloan) wrote:
> Trivia question: Can you name one society where brothers marry their
> sisters and which does not have the incest taboo?
>
> There is one.
>
> Hint: Many of their members now live in California and this practice
> causes no end of consternation among California Social Workers.
>
Ancient Egypt.
Amanda
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> All one has to know is that Victoria exhibited the first
> occurance of a hemophilia (which is know to be genetically
> inherited) in the royal family.
No, she didn't. Her son did.
> The next thought would certainly be -- well then her real
> father is probably the origin.
Until fairly recent times, nearly no hemophiliacs lived long
enough to father children, so the next thought should instead be
that her mother was the source. Then, if that pedigree seems
clear of any signs, the next conclusion should be that it arose
through spontaneous mutation, and a 55 year old father would be
as good a source of such a spontaneous mutation than anyone else
in the pedigree.
> That thought would come to practically anyone.
Not if they understood the genetics and epidemiology of the
disease in the context of 18th century England (when they were
still blistering and bleeding to treat disease).
That being said, with the degree to which Mr. Sloan is plastering
this thread across newsgroups (eight different groups so far),
this group would be best served if this thread were completely
ignored (along with any other post from him because he has taken
to crossposting most responses), while I try to clean up the mess
that he is causing. Unfortunately, there is only one thing that
we can do with someone who misbehaves, and that is to shun them.
This would be an appropriate time to do that.
taf
D. Spencer Hines
enough to father children, so the next thought should instead be that
her mother was the source. Then, if that pedigree seems clear of any
signs, the next conclusion should be that it arose through spontaneous
of such a spontaneous mutation than [sic] anyone else in the pedigree."
Todd A. Farmerie ---- 14 November 2001
-------------------------------------------------
Todd makes several quite worthwhile points, in a very clumsy
paragraph ---- and then shoots himself in the foot ---- through simple
carelessness, inattention to detail and academic sloppiness.
Victoria did not have "a 55-year-old father". Her father died at age
52, in 1820.
Prince Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent and Strathearn, was 51 when
Victoria was born. But, more importantly, he was about 50 when Victoria
was allegedly conceived.
I am not saying that he was too young at 50 to be the source of the
possible genetic mutation. Perhaps he was the source for that possible
mutation.
But, Todd should get his facts straight before posting ---- and he is
off by five years ---- where the facts are quite well-known.
Mistakes of that sort should not be tolerated in serious Genealogy.
Deus Vult.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Warriors ---- "There is much tradition and mystique in the bequest of
personal weapons to a surviving comrade in arms. It has to do with a
continuation of values past individual mortality. People living in a
time made safe for them by others may find this difficult to
understand." _Hannibal_, Thomas Harris, Delacorte Press, [1999], p. 397.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
-------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com> wrote in message
news:3BF2DCD8...@interfold.com...
Bryant Smith
> "Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
> news:3bf0df03...@ca.news.verio.net...
> > Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
> >
> > Queen Victoria, next to Queen Elizabeth I, is regarded as the greatest
> > British monarch ever.
>
> By whom? Not by anyone I ever met, on this ng or elsewhere.
> (My own candidates: Henry II, Edward I.)
>
Welcome, welcome intrusion of something almost on-topic into
this thread! It's almost as juvenile as "what's your favorite
color?" but we might learn something if enchante/Tsar/Jean
would tell us why his candidates are Henry II and Edward I.
From a genealogical point of view and reserving my own choice of
runner-up, I would choose Edward I because he brought Eleanor of
Castile and her very rich pedigree into the English picture.
This thread, when last I looked at it, had 41 articles in two
days and is, er, threadbare of on-topic stuff. It appears to
have been bounced back & forth from Sam's habitual wide cross-posting
to a few strains in which the posts were only to THIS ng. But folks,
when somebody like Sam posts something about non-medieval stuff and
cross-posts to groups where it would be admittedly on-topic, if you
really MUST dignify his post with a reply, why not edit the header?
It's easy, notice that I cut out the chess thing and left only this
group (and this one only to take this opportunity to make a suggestion)
and the two groups in which the discussion might belong.
Saludos
Bryant Smith
Playa Palo Seco
Costa Rica
JKent...@aol.com
farm...@interfold.com writes:
> > All one has to know is that Victoria exhibited the first
> > occurance of a hemophilia (which is know to be genetically
> > inherited) in the royal family.
>
> No, she didn't. Her son did.
>
>
Hemophilia is primarily a MALE disease according to my dictionaries.
Jno
canberra
I thought "men suffered from hemophilia but women passed it on", this means
that thesource is Victoria's mother, never mind who the father is. As it
seems she also suffered from porphyria she would have got that from her
father the Duke of Kent. Neat isn't it? However, as you and I know this is
an off-topic discussion.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: <KHF...@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
A Tsar Is Born
news:a9b2ce02.01111...@posting.google.com...
> "A Tsar Is Born" <ench...@herodotus.com> wrote in message
news:<3bf1a...@news.starnetinc.com>...
> > "Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
> > news:3bf0df03...@ca.news.verio.net...
> > > Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
> > >
> > > Queen Victoria, next to Queen Elizabeth I, is regarded as the greatest
> > > British monarch ever.
> >
> > By whom? Not by anyone I ever met, on this ng or elsewhere.
> > (My own candidates: Henry II, Edward I.)
> >
> [SNIP]
> Welcome, welcome intrusion of something almost on-topic into
> this thread! It's almost as juvenile as "what's your favorite
> color?" but we might learn something if enchante/Tsar/Jean
> would tell us why his candidates are Henry II and Edward I.
> From a genealogical point of view and reserving my own choice of
> runner-up, I would choose Edward I because he brought Eleanor of
> Castile and her very rich pedigree into the English picture.
LOL
At least you're more upfront about your reasons than some people I could
think of.
They got the job done, with a minimum of personal foofaraw. I think they
were the most hardworking, efficient, creative, detail-oriented Kings --
along with the Normans and the Tudors, but a little less inclined to be
tyrannical (at least to their ENGLISH subjects) than either of those sets.
Just an impression.
J C de L
P.S. to Gidzmo: The alternative to Protestant princesses wasn't Catholic
princesses for a son of George III -- no Catholic sovereign would have
permitted his daughter to marry a Protestant prince. Nor would such a
marriage necessarily have excluded their children from the succession, cf.
Frederick and Gabriella Windsor.
The alternative would be any Protestant girl who wasn't a princess. Edward's
brother Augustus, for instance, married a Duke's daughter. Not good enough
for George III (or Victoria). Neither the marriage (a perfectly legal one)
nor its issue was ever recognized as giving succession rights to descendants
of it.
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> I'm noted for my charm, but not for my irascible pedantic nit-picking.
Gentlemen,
Could you please trim the newsgroups to just the one that you are
using.
taf
ofergneezy
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:51:48 GMT, sl...@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan)
> wrote:
>
> > For this reason, almost all societies have incest taboos that
> >brothers and sisters cannot marry each other, because of the
> >possibility of hemophilia and other genetic diseases.
>
> Trivia question: Can you name one society where brothers marry their
> sisters and which does not have the incest taboo?
The Sloan family.
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> Unfortunately, there is only one thing that
> we can do with someone who misbehaves, and that is to shun them.
> This would be an appropriate time to do that.
Actually, there is one other possible action available to s.g.m
participants. If some hypothetical individual is using a news
service at, say, verio.net (the posting server can be determined
by looking at the complete headers) to excessively crosspost
off-topic messages to the group, then one could look at the
Acceptable Use Policy for the provider in question. In this
hypothetical case, Verio forbids:
:Other Activities -- Engaging in activities, whether lawful or
:unlawful, that Verio determines to be harmful to its
subscribers,
:operations, reputation, goodwill, or customer relations.
Now if the continued emission of such violations using (in this
hypothetical case) Verio's server causes one to view Verio in a
negative light, then the action could be seen as harmful to their
goodwill, and thus in violation of their Acceptable Use Policy.
Anyone feeling this way could then send a complaint to (in this
hypothetical case) ab...@verio.net, including in the message the
FULL HEADERS of the offending post.
For those who might prefer an active to a passive response, this
would be an alternative to shunning or kill-filing.
taf
Sam Sloan
wrote:
Since nobody has taken a byte of the one, I will give you the answer.
The answer is American Samoa.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/aq.html
I assume that incest was historically necessary for survival because
of its small population and remote location in the Pacific.
Sam Sloan
Amanda Jones
Sloan) wrote:
> >Hint: Many of their members now live in California and this practice
> >causes no end of consternation among California Social Workers.
>
> Since nobody has taken a byte of the one, I will give you the answer.
>
> The answer is American Samoa.
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/aq.html
>
> I assume that incest was historically necessary for survival because
> of its small population and remote location in the Pacific.
I replied to this message a couple of days ago - possibly on genbrit,
though, and answered that the Ancient Egyptians married siblings.
Amanda
Nicholas Lloyd
Islander. Surely you are not seriously considering to offer such tripe in
search of your own kinky fetishes... my friend your revelation would be far
more productive had you offered the tribes of hillbillies in and around the
Appalachian mountains...
in local venacular.. fair dinkum mate..
"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:3bf3db59...@ca.news.verio.net...
Arthur Murata
openly, particularly the Ptolemy folksin Egypt, and I seem
to recall a number of half-sibling marriages among the
Franks.
Bronwen Edwards
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com
Michael J Field
know of the incredibly strict and very broad incest taboo... it extends much
further out that in even most western societies -- out to around second
cousin...
--
Michael J Field
http://www.michaelfield.org
(64 21) 688438
"ofergneezy" <oferg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6691dfe1.01111...@posting.google.com...
Nathaniel Taylor
lostc...@yahoo.com (Arthur Murata) wrote:
[re: a challenge to identify a [modern] culture which condoned incest]
>If I am not mistaken, the Macedonians did this quite
>openly, particularly the Ptolemy folksin Egypt, and I seem
>to recall a number of half-sibling marriages among the
>Franks.
>Bronwen Edwards
This suprpises me; or maybe I'm just being thick. Can you give examples
of attested Frankish half-sibling marriages?
There do seem to have been some uncle-niece marriages here and there among
Franks or others (though some of them are disputed, such as the one in
tenth-century Catalonia).
Nat Taylor
Kalaninuiana'olekaumaiiluna Mondoy
> The answer is American Samoa.
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/aq.html
>
> I assume that incest was historically necessary for survival because
> of its small population and remote location in the Pacific.
>
Don't know how you see it nor do I care. I'm not
certain about Samoans but this kind of thing
occurred in Europe too among royalty. In Hawai'i,
marrying a brother to a sister would produce one
of the highest rank. And it was reserved for the
ali'i (chiefly) class anyway, not for anyone else
and it wasn't for "survival". It was to produce
highest ranking ali'i. Half sibling marriages
seemed to be the most commonly produced highest
ranking well known chiefs. Uncles, aunts to
nieces & nephews also were done but just didn't
produce a very high ranking ali'i.
RMe...@aol.com
nta...@post.harvard.edu writes:
> There do seem to have been some uncle-niece marriages here and there among
> Franks or others (though some of them are disputed, such as the one in
> tenth-century Catalonia).
>
> Nat Taylor
>
>
There are tons of uncle niece marriage all through Europe and until very very
recently as well. Just take a peak at the Habsburgs of Spain and Austria,
every uncle married his niece as far I can tell.
Loyaulte Me Lie,
Rania
Sam Sloan
<afp...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>What a complete load of garbage.... anybody who has ever lived in Samoa will
>know of the incredibly strict and very broad incest taboo... it extends much
>further out that in even most western societies -- out to around second
>cousin...
>
>--
>Michael J Field
>http://www.michaelfield.org
>(64 21) 688438
One of my souces for this is a California Social Worker, who works in
the East Bay. She says that many American Samoans live there. They
live in very big houses with lots of adults and children living
together. Occasionally, social workers are called. In trying to figure
out who are the parents of who, they have often eventually stumbled on
the fact that the parents of a child are brother and sister. They then
go to court and try to have the children taken away on that ground.
The courts rule against them. Incest is the custom in American Samoa
and you cannot take a child away from the parents on that ground, the
courts say.
Now, when social workers go to American Samoan Families, they just
assume that the real parents are brother and sister and do not let
that concern them.
There is a book which I believe deals with this entitled "The Coming
of Age in Samoa" by Margaret Meade. Margaret Meade was an old friend
of my mother, by the way.
Sam Sloan
Jeff George
>
> Yes. I am American. When I was in tenth grade in Boonesboro School in
> Bedford County Virginia, when I was 14 years old, I read a book on the
> British Monarchy. It may have been for a book report. It was for Miss
> Carrie Brokenboro's class. After reading the book, I could recite the
> name and order of every monarch in British History, including Alerfort
> the Unready (my favorite British monarch, of course).
>
Whoa! Wasn't that Ethelred?
--
=====================================================================
I don't want this anger that's burning in me.
It's something from which it's so hard to be free.
But none of the tears that we cry in sorrow or rage
Can make any difference, or turn back the page.
- David Gilmour
=====================================================================
Jeff George
Graeme Wall
ski...@racsa.co.cr (Bryant Smith) wrote:
[snip]
> if you really MUST dignify his post with a reply, why not edit the header?
> It's easy, notice that I cut out the chess thing and left only this group
> (and this one only to take this opportunity to make a suggestion) and the
> two groups in which the discussion might belong. Saludos Bryant Smith Playa
> Palo Seco Costa Rica
Except that you`ve also cross-posted it to Soc.genealogy.brotain where it
might be on topic if it wasn`t just a load of nonsense by someone who
believes in serving up yesterdays discredited theories as his own ideas.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
D. Spencer Hines
Or _Aethelred II_.
"The Unready" is frequently misunderstood.
Think "Military Readiness" or the "Ready Room" for aviators.
Aethelred 'The Redeless'
Deus Vult.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Warriors ---- "There is much tradition and mystique in the bequest of
personal weapons to a surviving comrade in arms. It has to do with a
continuation of values past individual mortality. People living in a
time made safe for them by others may find this difficult to
understand." _Hannibal_, Thomas Harris, Delacorte Press, [1999], p. 397.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
-------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Jeff George" <jeffge...@DAMNSPAMmsn.com> wrote in message
news:3BF558AE...@DAMNSPAMmsn.com...
Michael J Field
work on Samoan sexuality is almost totally wrong -- try reading Derek
Freeman's Margaret Mead and Samoa. Mead was tricked in Samoa and she
foolishly had another agenda that had nothing to do with Samoa -- but like
you, feeds a particularly piece of prejudice.
Your bigotry is revealed in the fact that while you refer to Mead you don't
even quote what she says -- P.86 on a Samoan girl: "She learns to observe
the brother and sister taboo towards the boys of her relationship group and
household...."
Freeman explores other aspects of Mead's commentary and leaves the
impression that Mead herself was advocating incest in the community.
Freeman, who has had a life time of work in Samoa against a few months by
Mead, writes on P 257 that incest was in Samoa "a heinous offense" and adds
it one of "the strictest prohibitions in Samoan society..."
It seems ashame that your racism and ignorance has to use the internet to
libel a group that on a per capita basis probably does more for the US than
narrow minds even know about -- more American Samoans per capita are in the
US forces than any other state or city in the US....
Grow up...
D. Spencer Hines
Well Said.
Margaret Mead [1901-1978] is one of the greatest academic frauds and
rank charlatans of relatively modern times.
She should have been tarred, feathered and ridden out of the American
Museum of Natural History, in New York City, on a tiki torch ---- or
perhaps a Polynesian phallic image. Yes, that's better.
Millions of supposedly *educated* people still don't know that Margaret
Mead was a fraud, a liar and a rank charlatan.
We note with amusement that _Sloan The Ignorant_ cannot even spell her
name correctly.
Hilarious!
Deus Vult.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Warriors ---- "There is much tradition and mystique in the bequest of
personal weapons to a surviving comrade in arms. It has to do with a
continuation of values past individual mortality. People living in a
time made safe for them by others may find this difficult to
understand." _Hannibal_, Thomas Harris, Delacorte Press, [1999], p. 397.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
-------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Michael J Field" <afp...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3bf5...@clear.net.nz...
Nicholas Lloyd
discredited by a lot of her peers including a well versed Australian
professor here at the Australian National University. There is even a play
written called the Heretic (from memory I think) dedicated to the
misinformation provided by Meade.
Her claims are said to have prompted the free love age of the 60s.
The gist of her book is preposterous and despicably inaccurate. This was
proven by researchers tracing the interviewees for Meade's books. Those
girls who were interviewed revealed that they were just playing along with
what Meade was asking them. They thought it was some kind of fun thing
resembling a joke.
Meade was around 23 years old when she wrote the draft for the book. At 23
years old, filled with romanticism and all the rest of it, how does one
begin to be an authority on this subject let alone begin to write an
anthropological thesis based on her research into the subject. To think that
this gave rise to the hippy era gives me an LSD high without the physical
substance.
With all due respects, Margaret Meade did some fine things in anthropology,
this is not one of them. Not by a long shot.
Sam has it occurred to you that perhaps one swallow does not make a summer.
By golly mate, get a hold of yourself and either get help or seek your local
porn shop.
"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:3bf53ea0...@ca.news.verio.net...
Rick J
would I likely be qualified to assess it.
However, I note that as recently as September this year the NY Academy of
Sciences honoured her with a special exhibition and lecture series.
"D. Spencer Hines" <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> wrote in message
news:6EfJ7.1730$tg4....@eagle.america.net...
Arthur Murata
also a "mixed" marriage of sorts. If I recall correctly,
this was from "Pedigree and Progress" by Wagner and
possibly a little bit from the Southworth website (for
Brunhilda's mother only).
I have that Childebert II, King of the Franks in Burgundy
(c. 570-assassinated 595) married his half-sister,
Faileuba. Their father was Siegebert I, King of the Franks
(c. 535-assassinated 575).
The mother of Childebert II was an unnamed mistress.
The mother of Faileuba was Brunhilda, Regent of the
Austrasian Franks (k. c. 613); she was the daughter of
Athanagild, King of the Visigoths (d. c. 567) and
Golswinth.
I could be entirely misled on this and would be happy to be
corrected. Good thoughts, Bronwen Edwards
Nichol
I can't think of any sibling marriages among the Franks, and have a
hard time believing they would've done such a thing. They were pretty
picky about that stuff.
On the incest side, we have Jean V, Comte de Armagnac, whose illegal
"marriage" to his sister Isabelle still has descendants. They were
cousins-by-marriage to the French kings, and their maternal
grandfather was a Navarese King. There's also Alfonso VI of Castile
and Leon and his sister, Urraca. Some Arab writers accused them of
incest, but no-one really knows if there was any factual basis for it.
I've heard of incestuous marriages among the children of the Duke of
Montbeliard -- anyone care to illuminate further on this?
.:Nichol:.
graham truesdale
A Tsar Is Born wrote in message <3bf34...@news.starnetinc.com>...
>P.S. to Gidzmo: The alternative to Protestant princesses wasn't Catholic
>princesses for a son of George III
>
Edward's
>brother Augustus, for instance, married a Duke's daughter. Not good enough
>for George III (or Victoria). Neither the marriage (a perfectly legal one)
by a Protestant clergyman) under the law of Rome, where it took place.
Nathaniel Taylor
lostc...@yahoo.com (Arthur Murata) wrote:
>I was thinking of one specific example which was
>also a "mixed" marriage of sorts. If I recall correctly,
>this was from "Pedigree and Progress" by Wagner and
>possibly a little bit from the Southworth website (for
>Brunhilda's mother only).
>
>I have that Childebert II, King of the Franks in Burgundy
>(c. 570-assassinated 595) married his half-sister,
>Faileuba. Their father was Siegebert I, King of the Franks
>(c. 535-assassinated 575).
>
>The mother of Childebert II was an unnamed mistress.
>The mother of Faileuba was Brunhilda, Regent of the
>Austrasian Franks (k. c. 613); she was the daughter of
>Athanagild, King of the Visigoths (d. c. 567) and
>Golswinth.
Thanks. Settipani's authoritative _Préhistoire des Capétiens_ shows
Brunhild to be the mother of all of Sigibert's attested children,
including Childebert II and two or three daughters (see his extended
discussion of an unnamed wife of duke Chrodoald). He says of Faileuba,
wife of Childebert II, that there is no source which reveals anything on
her origin.
I don't find this in _Pedigree & Progress_, but I don't have the book (and
its index) handy--only some photocopied portions, including the chapter
'Bridges to Antiquity' and the attendant charts. Chart 27 shows
Childebert II & Faileuba, but doesn't show her as a half-sister of her
husband.
So: still looking for brother-sister marriages. My guess is that there
won't be any found which are unequivocal (some may be genealogists'
guesses).
What's the 'Southworth' website you name?
Nat Taylor
Charles Riordan
> Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
>
> Queen Victoria, next to Queen Elizabeth I, is regarded as the greatest
> with her the gene for hemophilia. Hemophilia is a blood clotting
> disease which is caused by a defective X chromosome> An often unnoticed fact about the case of Queen Victoria is that she
> was the first member of European Royalty to carry the gene of
> hemophilia. The question then arises: From where did she get that
> gene?
[snip]
>
> The inescapable conclusion is that, since no other member of European
> Royalty prior to Queen Victoria had hemophilia, this must mean that
> some unknown man who was not royalty popped her mother.
I believe genetic defects of this sort can result from a spontaneous
mutation of a gene. If the defects depended solely on genetic
transmission from parent to child, they would likely die out.
In other
> words, stated differently, Queen Victoria was a bastard! More than
> that, since virtually the entire European royalty is descended from
> Queen Victoria, this means that all of the Royal Families of Europe
> are bastards! (Of course, we already knew that!)
Bastards (in this sense) are illegitimate children, people whose
parents are not married. All people descended from bastards are not
necessarily themselves bastards. If a bastard marries and has children
born in marriage, the children are legitimate.
>
> Now, the question is: From where did this bastard gene originate?
>
[snip]
She was the
> mother of Queen Victoria, who was born on 24 May 1819. She was the
> only child.
>
> Doesn't this seem a bit strange? Edward Augustus was the son of the
> King of England. He presumably could have had any woman he wanted.
> King George I, King George II and King George III were all known to
> have had many mistresses and illegitimate children. Yet, Edward
> Augustus, who would have been the King of England had he lived longer,
> did not get married until age 51, and then fathered a child who was
> born only ten months after he got married, and then he died only eight
> months after Victoria, the future queen, was born.
>
> What do I think? I think that Edward Augustus was a gay blade who got
> married as a cover up
If a woman to whom he was not yet married was pregnant by another man,
why would he need to marry her as a cover up?
and that he was not Queen Victoria's real
> father. I think that Queen Victoria's real father was an unknown
> hemophiliac who died probably very soon after fathering Victoria and
> almost certainly was dead by the time that Queen Victoria was born.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Sam Sloan
> http://www.samsloan.com/secret.htm
> http://www.ishipress.com/royalfam/pafg18.htm#34
> http://www.shamema.com/tatjana.htm
Arthur Murata
URL handy but that much should let you find it with a
search engine. I would not place great stock in it - the
younger Stevens, Luke, had his own site going for awhile
which was based on the Biblical "begats". If I didn't get
that thing on Faileuba from Wagner, I'm not sure where it
came from. In any case, if it is untrue, it will not serve
very well as an example!
I have had to use the library to find Wagner and I do
recall one amazing chart in his book that I would love to
get ahold of at the moment which purports to show a
connection by marriage between the European aristocracy and
Kublai Khan. It's difficult to get to the library these
days and so if you happen to have a copy of that page (or
if someone else does) I would greatly appreciate a copy.
It's for my brother - I find weird stuff for him that
pertains to our shared pedigree even if it is demonstrably
untrue. I enjoy the quirky pedigrees that pop up from time
to time and find the reasons for their existence to be as
interesting as the real pedigrees. Just different. Good
thoughts, Bronwen Edwards
--- Nathaniel Taylor <nta...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
William Addams Reitwiesner
<bandwidth snip>
>I've heard of incestuous marriages among the children of the Duke of
>Montbeliard -- anyone care to illuminate further on this?
The Duke died in 1723. His daughter by his first wife married his son by
his second wife, while his son by his first wife married his daughter by
his second wife. See ES III:268 for details. There are surviving
descendants of one of the marriages.
--
Ceterum censeo DSH delendam esse.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
P.G. Felton
> On Tuesday, in article <3bf0df03...@ca.news.verio.net>
> sl...@ishipress.com "Sam Sloan" wrote:
>
> > Victoria's Secret: Who was Queen Victoria's real father?
> >
> > Queen Victoria, next to Queen Elizabeth I, is regarded as the greatest
> > British monarch ever.
> >
> Queen Elizabeth I a British monarch?
>
> Fallen at the first fence.
> <snip>
Really, wasn't the 'Great' added upon union with Scotland to differentiate
from
'Britain' which existed before. After all Elizabeth's grandfather was
Welsh!
Phil.
Charles Ellson
fel...@princeton.edu "P.G. Felton" wrote:
> Charles Ellson wrote:
>
<snip>
> > >
> > Queen Elizabeth I a British monarch?
> >
> > Fallen at the first fence.
> > <snip>
>
> Really, wasn't the 'Great' added upon union with Scotland
What has that got to do with a monarch of another country who died
104 years before?
> to differentiate from Britain' which existed before. After all
> Elizabeth's grandfather was Welsh!
>
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson:E-mail charlesATellson.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
Lesley Robertson
"P.G. Felton" <fel...@princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:3BF6E00A...@princeton.edu...
>
> Really, wasn't the 'Great' added upon union with Scotland to differentiate
> from
> 'Britain' which existed before. After all Elizabeth's grandfather was
> Welsh!
>
"large". She was not a british Queen.
Lesley Robertson.
A Tsar Is Born
news:100605...@ellson.demon.co.uk...
> On Saturday, in article <3BF6E00A...@princeton.edu>
> fel...@princeton.edu "P.G. Felton" wrote:
>
> > Charles Ellson wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> > > >
> > > Queen Elizabeth I a British monarch?
> > >
> > > Fallen at the first fence.
> > > <snip>
> >
> > Really, wasn't the 'Great' added upon union with Scotland
>
> What has that got to do with a monarch of another country who died
> 104 years before?
>
> > to differentiate from Britain' which existed before. After all
> > Elizabeth's grandfather was Welsh!
What makes you think so?
He was born in England, lived his entire life in England and France, had an
English mother and a French paternal grandmother.
If he was Welsh, the Swedish and Spanish royal families are French and all
the other reigning royal families in Europe are German (except the
Philadelphia Irish Monegasques).
I think they would dispute that.
Jean Coeur de Lapin
atsar...@hotmail.com
P.G. Felton
The term Great Britain was only used in the title UKofGB&I after the act of
Union with
Scotland in 1707, why would the need be felt to differentiate from Brittany
which ceased
to exist as an independent political entity 200 years previously?
Elizabeth ruled over England, Wales and Ireland, i.e. Britain and Ireland which
became
GB&I after the addition of Scotland.
Phil.
D. Spencer Hines
Wrong.
On 20 October 1604, James I issued a decree proclaiming himself to be
'King of Great-Britain (sic), France and Ireland' as an attempt to
preempt the English and Scottish Parliaments' Joint Commission into his
proposed 'Instrument of Union'.
The French were not amused.
Deus Vult.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Warriors ---- "There is much tradition and mystique in the bequest of
personal weapons to a surviving comrade in arms. It has to do with a
continuation of values past individual mortality. People living in a
time made safe for them by others may find this difficult to
understand." _Hannibal_, Thomas Harris, Delacorte Press, [1999], p. 397.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
-------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"P.G. Felton" <fel...@princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:3BF85B41...@princeton.edu...
| Lesley Robertson wrote:
|
| > "P.G. Felton" <fel...@princeton.edu> wrote in message
| > news:3BF6E00A...@princeton.edu...
| > >
| > > Really, wasn't the 'Great' added upon union with Scotland to
| > > differentiate from 'Britain' which existed before. After all
| > > Elizabeth's grandfather was Welsh!
| > >
| > Nope. It was to differentiate the island from Brittany - it simply
| > means "large". She was not a british [sic] Queen.
P.G. Felton
> "Charles Ellson" <Cha...@ellson.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:100605...@ellson.demon.co.uk...
> > On Saturday, in article <3BF6E00A...@princeton.edu>
> > fel...@princeton.edu "P.G. Felton" wrote:
> >
> > > Charles Ellson wrote:
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > Queen Elizabeth I a British monarch?
> > > >
> > > > Fallen at the first fence.
> > > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Really, wasn't the 'Great' added upon union with Scotland
> >
> > What has that got to do with a monarch of another country who died
> > 104 years before?
>
I would have thought the following made that clear?
> >
> > > to differentiate from 'Britain' which existed before. After all
> > > Elizabeth's grandfather was Welsh!
>
> What makes you think so?
> He was born in England, lived his entire life in England and France, had an
> English mother and a French paternal grandmother.
So his French grandmother counts but his Welsh grandfather doesn't? The Tudor
family was a Welsh one. Note in 'Richard III', King Richard referring to
Tudor:
"You cannot guess wherefore the Welshman comes."
Also Tudor landed in Wales, an indication of where his support lay.
Phil.
The...@aol.com
Hello Phil, et al.,
I think if we track back through the mists of time, the answer lies in
France * .
The colonisation of the area known as Armorica by groups of Celts
(Britons, later Bretons), probably ca. A.D. 400 - 550, gave rise to the area
becoming known as Britannia [actually, Britannia Minor] to the Romanised
population of Gaul [not yet France]. With the evolution of the French
tongue, this then became Bretagne - as a proper map of France (i.e., not one
divided into departments) will still show it today. This became known across
the Channel (in England/Britain, as you prefer) as Brittany.
This left the problem of what to call the island across La Manche -
still full of Britons (well, minus those now in Bretagne, plus assorted
Angles, Saxons & c.). This was solved in a proper Roman [Latin] manner - as
the Briton/Breton occupation of Armorica had caused the renaming to Britannia
Minor, the island must then be called Britannia Major. Rendered in French,
Grande Bretagne. Hence, Great Britain.
This then is not the fault of any Tudor or Stuart (or even Hanoverian)
rewrite of history, or geography. Blame our French cousins (ancestors, even)
!
Bonne chance, et bonne chasse.
John
* Many important answers lie in France, including (A) why do we speak
English and not Sachsen; also (B) how to make a true mille-feuille.
Sam Sloan
>No.
>
>Wrong.
>
>On 20 October 1604, James I issued a decree proclaiming himself to be
>'King of Great-Britain (sic), France and Ireland' as an attempt to
>preempt the English and Scottish Parliaments' Joint Commission into his
>proposed 'Instrument of Union'.
>
>The French were not amused.
Question: What is the most famous quote ever made by any monarch anywhere?
Answer: "We are not amused" by Queen Victoria
Sam Sloan
Charles Ellson
fel...@princeton.edu "P.G. Felton" wrote:
> A Tsar Is Born wrote:
>
> > "Charles Ellson" <Cha...@ellson.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:100605...@ellson.demon.co.uk...
> > > On Saturday, in article <3BF6E00A...@princeton.edu>
> > > fel...@princeton.edu "P.G. Felton" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Charles Ellson wrote:
> > > >
> > > <snip>
> > > > > Queen Elizabeth I a British monarch?
> > > > >
> > > > > Fallen at the first fence.
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > Really, wasn't the 'Great' added upon union with Scotland
> > >
> > > What has that got to do with a monarch of another country who died
> > > 104 years before?
> >
>
> I would have thought the following made that clear?
>
Not at all, as "the following" consists mainly of later replies.
In nationality terms it was not possible to be "British" until 1707;
Queen Elizabeth of England had been dead for some time before that. There
was no "Great Britain" to be monarch of before that, but seperate kingdoms
with the same monarch. A similar arrangement still applies WRT to the UK
and various Channel Islands, where one person is the ruler of separate
entities. Riding two horses doesn't combine the horses into one.
Amanda Jones
sl...@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote:
> Question: What is the most famous quote ever made by any monarch
> anywhere?
>
> Answer: "We are not amused" by Queen Victoria
I don't know - "I may have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have
the heart and stomach of a King, and a King of England too" QEI
or "Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'"
Henry V, via Shakespeare, but who cares?
Amanda
canberra
Victoria never said that.
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Jones" <avj...@cix.compulink.co.uk>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Victoria's Secret: Who Was Queen Victoria's Real Father?
> In article <3.0.6.32.2001111...@ishipress.com>,
> sl...@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote:
>
>
> > Question: What is the most famous quote ever made by any monarch
> > anywhere?
> >
> > Answer: "We are not amused" by Queen Victoria
>
Graeme Wall
"P.G. Felton" <fel...@princeton.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>
> Really, wasn't the 'Great' added upon union with Scotland to differentiate
> from
> 'Britain' which existed before. After all Elizabeth's grandfather was
> Welsh!
>
Great Britain was the large island off the coast of France, Little Britain
was the peninsular west of Normandy.
Greg
please. It no longer has anything to do with genealogy (not that it was ever
really relevant).
Greg
Charles Ellson
g...@acay.com.au "Greg" wrote:
If you wanted your thread elsewhere, why post it here?
Arthur Murata
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
Alex
an example of what goes wrong with inbreeding. For haemophillia to be
used as an example it must eother be caused by or its incidence
increased by inbreeding. This did not happen with the royal families.
Empress Alexandra was related to Em,peror Nicholas true, but this did
not cause her son to be haemophiliac. Nichoplas did not carry the
relevanr genes. The boy was just as likely to be haemophiliac if his
father had been an Australian aboriginal! Thge same foir Eugenie when
she married the King of Spain. In fact because of their different
religons they were only very distantlt related.
D. Spencer Hines
They just don't know what they are talking about ---- but prattle
anyway.
And, the "inbreeding" bit is titillating as well as giving them a
delightful frisson of Schadenfreude.
Deus Vult.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Warriors ---- "There is much tradition and mystique in the bequest of
personal weapons to a surviving comrade in arms. It has to do with a
continuation of values past individual mortality. People living in a
time made safe for them by others may find this difficult to
understand." _Hannibal_, Thomas Harris, Delacorte Press, [1999], p. 397.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
-------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Alex" <ce...@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:d13e2104.01112...@posting.google.com...
Eve McLaughlin
<D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> writes
>Indeed.
>
>They just don't know what they are talking about ---- but prattle
>anyway.
>
have been away from this group for a fortnight, and come back to find
that the Sloan-fomented rubbish is still going on. Can no one rid us of
the turbulent beast? and cohorts like the above?
--
Eve McLaughlin
Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians
Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society
D. Spencer Hines
| the turbulent beast? and cohorts like the above?
| --
| Eve McLaughlin
|
| Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians
| Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society
The four knights are reportedly on their way ---- but not my way.
I understand they are currently in High Wycombe, and are ready to travel
on short notice to wherever their services may be required.
Do take up your complaints with any of them ---- Sir Reginald FitzUrse,
Sir William de Tracy, Sir Hugh de Morville and Sir Richard le Bret.
Reginald would probably be the best bet ---- but watch out for that
sword arm. He can slice a melon in two with just a flick. He was
cutting the tops off coconuts at the Polynesian Cultural Center, when
last he was in Hawai'i. Impressive, impressive indeed.
Please give all four my warm regards. They are all kin. <g>
Good Luck!
Don't call us ---- we'll call you.
Deus Vult.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Warriors ---- "There is much tradition and mystique in the bequest of
personal weapons to a surviving comrade in arms. It has to do with a
continuation of values past individual mortality. People living in a
time made safe for them by others may find this difficult to
understand." _Hannibal_, Thomas Harris, Delacorte Press, [1999], p. 397.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
-------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Eve McLaughlin" <e...@varneys.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Rcm+PGA$ajA8...@varneys.demon.co.uk...