KATE AND WILLIAM ARE 15th COUSINS(it's official)
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More options May 1, 12:02 pm
On May 1, 12:37 am, "Leo" <can2...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
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> Thanks to William Addams Reitwiesner and Michael J. Wood, I have been
> able to record some 6,441 ancestors for Kate Middleton.
> Well, with all of that there must be someone at gen-medieval who can
> improve on Leo, and find royalty in the lineage of HRH Catherine,
> Duchess of Cambridge, Countess of Strathearn and Baroness
> Carrickfergus.
> ap
> -------Amongst the 6,441 ancestors there are quite a few monarchs.
> Charles VI of France, Edward III of England, Charles V of France, Edward II of England, Jean II of France, Edward I of England, Philippe IV of France, John the Blind of Bohemia, Henry III of England, Philippe III of France, Enrique I of Navarre, Charles II of Naples, Emperor Heinrich VII, Pedro III of Aragon, Afonso IV of Portugal, John of England, Alfonso IX of Leon, Llywellyn Fawr of Wales, Emperor Jean de Brienne, Louis VIII of France, and many more, don't forget William the Conqueror and Charlemagne..
> As she also descends from Mary Boleyn, there is a chance she also descends from Henry VIII, Henry VII and Edward IV of England.
> A few years ago Ian Fettes and I produced a book "Plantagenet Cousins" a collection of descendants of Geoffrey of Anjou (father of King Henry II) and Catherine Middleton is one of those descendants.
> With best wishes,
> Leo van de Pas,
> Canberra, Australia
Hi Leo....yep, as you said, that group and many, many more. That's
what really annoys me about the term "commoner". For quite sometime,
it's almost been a derogatory term used for people who many in the
aristocracy thought were lower than a gutter snake, in their
opinions.
Even today, it's almost a quaint term of derision, though its
strictest derivation just meant anyone not of royal or noble blood.
Funny how the media played it up with Kate before her marriage to
William and even on the day, yet the lady is William's 15th cousin
and
has just as much "royal" blood flowing through her veins as he has
(albeit a little earlier in her tree than his).
Cheers,
Carl.
ap
> madscientist66 wrote,
> Hi Leo....yep, as you said, that group and many, many more. That's
> what really annoys me about the term "commoner". For quite sometime,
> it's almost been a derogatory term used for people who many in the
> aristocracy thought were lower than a gutter snake, in their
> opinions.
> Even today, it's almost a quaint term of derision, though its
> strictest derivation just meant anyone not of royal or noble blood.
> Funny how the media played it up with Kate before her marriage to
> William and even on the day, yet the lady is William's 15th cousin
> and
> has just as much "royal" blood flowing through her veins as he has
> (albeit a little earlier in her tree than his).
> Cheers,
> Carl.
The sticking point for genealogists is the paper trail. We are not
talking DNA checking. And the paper trail is there for other
genealogists to check out. And the facts (yes, facts) of that paper
trail is that Kate and William are 15th cousins and easily checkable
in paper trails of genealogical ATs independent of what anyone
thinks. What got me was the arrogance of commentators to
pejoratively attack the ancestry of Kate Middleton as if she was
not descent of royalty, when in fact the paper trail of ATs by
professional genealogists clearly shows she is: and accordingly,
descent of William I the Conqueror King of England, Robert the
Bruce King of Scotland and Charlemagne Emperor of the Holy
Roman Empire, which are the abiding hallmarks of European
royalty. Let us be clear on this: Kate Middle has that royal
background,
and now by marriage has joined the current Windsor family
and with her new titles granted by HM the Queen is very much
center stage of ancestral discussions for years to come. Naysayers
cannot undo the facts of ATs or paper trails which is the factual
basis of genealogy. Like it or not, genealogy is what rules
monarchial systems. HM the Queen, then HRH the Prince
of Wales, then HRH the Duke of Cambridge. HRH Catherine
the Duchess of Cambridge stands beside Wills as Kate, and
they are 15th cousins in royal kinship.
ap
PDel...@aol.com
but that of her mother when they said that she was 'common', or better ' a
commoner'! His ancestry is typical of the majority of the English
bourgeoisie, with a large contingent of ancestors who made their money in the
industrial revolution (1780-1850), but before were part of the greater populace -
but then weren't most? Unfortunately the media relies on the 'down' to
make money and they chose, not her paternal ascent but her matrilineal
one.....Could she be related to Oliver goldsmith one asks?
I have a connection, albeit loose, with Kate Middleton, through her
Martineau, Meadows and Taylor antecedents, all from Norwich - a line of mine
which until now has proved elusive, but thanks to the Library of Congress is
proving quite fascinating.
Peter
Sholom Simon
> William and even on the day, yet the lady is William's 15th cousin
> and has just as much "royal" blood flowing through her veins as he has
Just as much? How do you figure? Of her, say, 32 gggp, how many were
royalty? How many were peers? What's the number for William.
> that paper
> trail is that Kate and William are 15th cousins and easily checkable
> in paper trails of genealogical ATs independent of what anyone
> thinks. What got me was the arrogance of commentators to
> pejoratively attack the ancestry of Kate Middleton as if she was
> not descent of royalty, when in fact the paper trail of ATs by
> professional genealogists clearly shows she is:
Again -- I don't understand this complaint. My wife (through Benj Child
and Sarah Shenton) is an 11th cousin of Prince William. Which means that
my wife is more closely related to Prince William than Kate is. Would
anyone in a million years describe my wife, or my kids, as royalty?
Further, through Margaret Fleming and Griffith Bowen, they, too, are
descended from Henry I, Charlemagne, Alfred the Great, Brian Boru, etc.
But so are hundreds of millions of others -- and probably millions who
could able to document it.
So: same question -- how many generations does one have to go back from
Kate to find even one peer? (Compare that to, say, Prince William's
mother -- Princess Diana (daughter of an Earl) and who could count an
Earl, a Duke, and a Baron amongst her four ggf's).
And, so, that's what I think the commentators were noting. Further, many
that I heard were not noting the disparity in a disparaging way. In fact,
what I inferred was that: in our day an age, even someone who is not a
child of nobility can marry into the royal family. That's something that
even Charles couldn't really do back in his younger day.
-- Sholom
(Granted, I did think of my daughter as a princess from time to time, but
that was purely metaphorical! <g>)
ap
Except you miss the point. Newlyweds, Kate and William,
Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are royal cousins!
ap
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WILLS AND KATE ARE 12TH COUSINS
The man who links William and Kate as kith and kin is Sir Thomas
Leighton, an Elizabethan soldier and diplomat, Governor of Guernsey.
Sir Thomas Leighton is William's 12th generation great-grandparent,
and Kate's 11th, making them 12th cousins, once removed.
Sir Thomas Leighton m. Elizabeth Knollys
Elizabeth Leighton m. Sherrington Talbot
Elizabeth Talbot m. Henry Davenport
William Davenport m. Grace Alloway
William Davenport m. Elizabeth Marshall
Sarah Davenport m. Thomas Ashford
Elizabeth Ashford m. Robert Hobbes
Christiana Hobbes m. Thomas Davis
Harriet Albina Davis m. Francis Lupton
Olive Christiana Lupton m. Richard Noel Middleton
Peter Middleton m. Valerie Glassborow
Michael Middleton m. Carole Goldsmith
Catherine Elizabeth Middleton m. Prince William of Wales
---------
Sir Thomas Leighton m. Elizabeth Knollys
Anne Leighton m. Sir John St John, 1 Bt
Anne St John m. Henry Wilmot, 1 Earl Rochester
John Wilmot, 2 E Rochester m. Elizabeth Malet
Lady Malet Wilmot m. John Vaughan, 1 V Lisburne
Wilmot Vaughan, Visc Fethers m. Elizabeth Watson
Wilmot Vaughan, 1 E Lisburne m. Dorothy Shafto
Dorothy Vaughan m. Sir Lawrence Palk, 2 Bt
Elizabeth Malet Palk m. Horace Beauchamp Seymour
Adelaide Horatia Elizabeth Seymour m. Frederick, 4 E Spencer
Charles Robert Spencer, 6 E Spencer m. Margaret Baring
Albert Edward John Spencer, 7 E Spencer m. Cynthia Hamilton
Edward John Spencer, 8 E Spencer m. Frances Ruth Burke Roche
Diana Frances Spencer m. Charles Prince of Walkes
Prince of Wales m. Catherine Elizabeth Middleton
ap