Where have the Genealogists gone?

[Graham Ward via]

Alternatively "Why don't we use mailing lists any more?"

In the period 2000-2007 there was a very active community of enquiries on
Rootsweb Mailing lists, both general ones like this and the County lists
were particularly popular.

Now the number of messages a month is in some cases only 2% of what it was
at its peak. If there has been an increase in interest over the last 10
years, why has the interaction between genealogists apparently declined?

Perhaps we are using other tools - Facebook and other mailing list
platforms have come along.

Are we using too many different communication tools that we do not hear
each other now?

What do you use and how do you see the future?

Graham

[Justin York via]

This is relevant and just came out today:
http://lisalouisecooke.com/2014/10/random-acts-of-genealogical-kindness/

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> GENCMP-...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>

[singhals via]

Graham Ward via wrote:
> Alternatively "Why don't we use mailing lists any more?"
>
> In the period 2000-2007 there was a very active community of enquiries on
> Rootsweb Mailing lists, both general ones like this and the County lists
> were particularly popular.
>
> Now the number of messages a month is in some cases only 2% of what it was
> at its peak. If there has been an increase in interest over the last 10
> years, why has the interaction between genealogists apparently declined?
>
> Perhaps we are using other tools - Facebook and other mailing list
> platforms have come along.
>
> Are we using too many different communication tools that we do not hear
> each other now?
>
> What do you use and how do you see the future?

As a list-admin for several lists at Rootsweb, I'll share my
experiences for the common pond of knowledge. :^)

First, user error has made a dent in the numbers. A
newcomer signs up for the gencmp list and gets messages
about "Some program I never heard of" and marks it S**M.
User's ISP decides Rootsweb is a spammer and blocks it. The
first hundred times, the other subscribers to gencmp can
handle; after that, they get just quit trying.

Then S**M controls have gotten so tight it's a wonder any of
us get any email from an ISP not our own. You'll have
noticed the word via in the From displays? That's because
without it, none of the RW's list mail was getting through
the filters -- the sender after all wasn't who the headers
SAID it was from.

A great many people migrated to surname boards, not lists.
Boards have their own set of problems, but at least
everyone's talking about the right families. The benefits
of reading something you didn't already know seem to be
unappreciated these days.

As you suggest, evidently the instant-gratification
generation prefer Facebook, et al. I'm unclear, myself, on
the mechanics of how reading 40 or 50 messages in your
in-box is more time-consuming than spending hours every day
on Facebook, but there it is. Younger family assures me
that having a video of 16-yr-old Callie blowing out birthday
candles is SOOOOO much more interesting than reading that
she did blow out the candles ...

Worse -- now that those TV programs have made it look so
easy, everybody and his dawg is a "genealogist" who can find
a name on the 'net. Big whoop.

In my jaundice opinion, of course. Could be we're just past
our Use-By date, like this box of candy ...

Cheryl

[Ian Goddard]

On 08/10/14 15:54, singhals via wrote:
>
> As a list-admin for several lists at Rootsweb, I'll share my experiences
> for the common pond of knowledge. :^)
>
> First, user error has made a dent in the numbers. A newcomer signs up
> for the gencmp list and gets messages about "Some program I never heard
> of" and marks it S**M. User's ISP decides Rootsweb is a spammer and
> blocks it. The first hundred times, the other subscribers to gencmp can
> handle; after that, they get just quit trying.
>
> Then S**M controls have gotten so tight it's a wonder any of us get any
> email from an ISP not our own. You'll have noticed the word via in the
> From displays? That's because without it, none of the RW's list mail
> was getting through the filters -- the sender after all wasn't who the
> headers SAID it was from.

Maybe mail lists as opposed to newsgroups are part of the problem (and
gateways between the two are a problem in their own right - see below).
And accessing messages via the web may be another.

Using a client which accesses both (Seamonkey but Thunderbird is the
stand-alone equivalent) I have an inbox for each *mail* service and
separate boxes for each *newsgroup* service. That keeps the two types
of service out of each other's hair. It would also make it impossible
for anyone to label a message as spam & feed that back to the server.
In fact I'm not sure it's even possible to use a mail client to feed a
spam marking back to the ISP. If I find spam in the news feed I have to
take the trouble to email my news-server who will then review it
themselves before blacklisting the sender. And none of this via stuff
visible on nntp-to-nntp messages.

Maybe the solution for the specific gencmp problem is to send a welcome
message to every new sign-up explaining what they might see and warning
them of the problems they might cause by marking messages as spam; if
they want to change their minds just unsubscribe.

The gateway, however, is a problem in terms of threading. F'rinstance
Cheryls reply here is threaded under Justin's but Justin's isn't
threaded under Graham. Reason? The message ID of Graham's OP comes
through to nntp as mailman.49.14127...@rootsweb.com.
Justin's and Cheryl's messages come through as replying to message
CAE+ryquvmUm8T6GTy0y7VBSF...@mail.gmail.com but
each has their own rootsweb ID.

> A great many people migrated to surname boards, not lists. Boards have
> their own set of problems, but at least everyone's talking about the
> right families. The benefits of reading something you didn't already
> know seem to be unappreciated these days.

Shudder. Yes, I use a few surname specific sites or boards. But unless
you have pedigree collapse you double the number of surnames with each
generation you get back - that would get unwieldy pretty quickly. (I
suppose in practice having 5 lines back to the same mid C17th couple
would mitigate that as does the fact the so many lines are blunted by a
Kaye marriage half of which seem to fall into a black hole in the C17th
& the other half into an undifferentiated pile.)

But "does anybody have any good ideas?" posts on s.g.britain are
regularly answered by folk who don't share the same surname. Surname
specific sights wouldn't be able to muster the breadth of knowledge that
a general site brings.

> As you suggest, evidently the instant-gratification generation prefer
> Facebook, et al.

And the social networking generation have given us the hordes who've
discovered Google Groups but not discovered what it actually is.

>
> In my jaundice opinion, of course. Could be we're just past our Use-By
> date, like this box of candy ...

Maybe it's the past-use-by candy that gave you the jaundice?

--
Ian

The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang
at austonley org uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:31:20 +0100, Graham Ward via <gen...@rootsweb.com>
wrote:

Yes, and some people have a compulsion to use the wrong tool for the job, I've
seen many say that Facebook is an improvement on mailing lists and newsgroups,
but it isn't. A few years ago half the participants in the rec.arts.books
newsgroup hived off to Facebook, where they called themselves the prancing
half wits. The result is that there is little worth reading in either place
now.

Also, there was fragmentation among mailing lists and newsgroups.

There was one from South African genealogy, and then someone made one dealing
for one province, and then another province, and then a particular period. But
people moved around so much that I put all my queries in the general one.
Recently a Google search revealed a message someone had posted in a provincial
list on people I had an interest in, but I was not a member of that list, and
the family concerned lived in several provinces.

I subscribe to the Cumberland list, and also to the Cumbria list and the UK
NorthWest one. The Cumberland list has a lot of traffic, the others have very
little, yet one of the families in which I am chiefly interested in is a
Cumbrian family -- it originated in Westmorland, but is found in Whitehaven
and Ulverstone as well.

So perhaps after the fragmentation we need a consolidation. It is better to
have 1 mailing list with 100 messages a month than 100 mailinglists each with
one message a month, and where the person who knows the answer to a query in
list 23 only reads list 67.

>
>What do you use and how do you see the future?
>
>Graham

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[singhals via]

Ian Goddard via wrote:
> On 08/10/14 15:54, singhals via wrote:
>>
>> As a list-admin for several lists at Rootsweb, I'll share my experiences
>> for the common pond of knowledge. :^)
>>
>> First, user error has made a dent in the numbers. A newcomer signs up
>> for the gencmp list and gets messages about "Some program I never heard
>> of" and marks it S**M. User's ISP decides Rootsweb is a spammer and
>> blocks it. The first hundred times, the other subscribers to gencmp can
>> handle; after that, they get just quit trying.
>>
>> Then S**M controls have gotten so tight it's a wonder any of us get any
>> email from an ISP not our own. You'll have noticed the word via in the
>> From displays? That's because without it, none of the RW's list mail
>> was getting through the filters -- the sender after all wasn't who the
>> headers SAID it was from.
>
> Maybe mail lists as opposed to newsgroups are part of the problem (and
> gateways between the two are a problem in their own right - see below).
> And accessing messages via the web may be another.

Yeah, I really *DO* miss the newsgroups! But, my ISP
decided it didn't want to get sued because some ya-hoo said
something offensive, so they cut that out several years back.

> Using a client which accesses both (Seamonkey but Thunderbird is the
> stand-alone equivalent) I have an inbox for each *mail* service and
> separate boxes for each *newsgroup* service. That keeps the two types
> of service out of each other's hair. It would also make it impossible

> for anyone to label a message as spam& feed that back to the server.

> In fact I'm not sure it's even possible to use a mail client to feed a
> spam marking back to the ISP. If I find spam in the news feed I have to
> take the trouble to email my news-server who will then review it
> themselves before blacklisting the sender. And none of this via stuff
> visible on nntp-to-nntp messages.
>
> Maybe the solution for the specific gencmp problem is to send a welcome
> message to every new sign-up explaining what they might see and warning
> them of the problems they might cause by marking messages as spam; if
> they want to change their minds just unsubscribe.
>

Oh, please. Nobody reads welcome messages. Especially those
who need the info they contain.

> The gateway, however, is a problem in terms of threading. F'rinstance
> Cheryls reply here is threaded under Justin's but Justin's isn't
> threaded under Graham. Reason? The message ID of Graham's OP comes
> through to nntp as mailman.49.14127...@rootsweb.com.
> Justin's and Cheryl's messages come through as replying to message
> CAE+ryquvmUm8T6GTy0y7VBSF...@mail.gmail.com but
> each has their own rootsweb ID.

Graham's must've been via the group, because I don't see him
on-list.

>
>> A great many people migrated to surname boards, not lists. Boards have
>> their own set of problems, but at least everyone's talking about the
>> right families. The benefits of reading something you didn't already
>> know seem to be unappreciated these days.
>
> Shudder. Yes, I use a few surname specific sites or boards. But unless
> you have pedigree collapse you double the number of surnames with each
> generation you get back - that would get unwieldy pretty quickly. (I
> suppose in practice having 5 lines back to the same mid C17th couple
> would mitigate that as does the fact the so many lines are blunted by a
> Kaye marriage half of which seem to fall into a black hole in the C17th
> & the other half into an undifferentiated pile.)
>
> But "does anybody have any good ideas?" posts on s.g.britain are
> regularly answered by folk who don't share the same surname. Surname
> specific sights wouldn't be able to muster the breadth of knowledge that
> a general site brings.
>

As I argued back in what was it? 1997? when the soc.roots
was being chopped into the soc.gen hierarchy. On a
single-list people read most of it and you can pick up some
extremely useful info about what's available where -- may
not need it today, but next month it sure is handy!

>> As you suggest, evidently the instant-gratification generation prefer
>> Facebook, et al.
>
> And the social networking generation have given us the hordes who've
> discovered Google Groups but not discovered what it actually is.
>
>>
>> In my jaundice opinion, of course. Could be we're just past our Use-By
>> date, like this box of candy ...
>
> Maybe it's the past-use-by candy that gave you the jaundice?
>

I'm beginning to worry about me and my typing. Add the "d"
at the end of that word. :) Still to follow your lead, yah,
prolly -- it's butterscotch.

Cheryl

[Steven Gibbs]

"Graham Ward via" <gen...@rootsweb.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.49.14127...@rootsweb.com...

> Alternatively "Why don't we use mailing lists any more?"

I think that the availability of online records has reduced the need for
mailing lists (and newsgroups and fora) dramatically. People used to ask for
lookups, now they no longer need to. People used to ask for help, now they
just copy someone's tree from Ancestry.

If you ignore the necro-posts, nearly all the traffic on s.g.b. is on
specialist subjects - and that's busy compared to the other newsgroups I'm
subscribed to.

Steven

[Ian Goddard]

On 08/10/14 19:12, singhals via wrote:

> it's butterscotch.

Mmmmm

[Ian Goddard]

On 08/10/14 19:32, Steven Gibbs wrote:

> If you ignore the necro-posts, nearly all the traffic on s.g.b. is on
> specialist subjects - and that's busy compared to the other newsgroups I'm
> subscribed to.

Sadly, much the same thing on other newsgroups. I subscribe to
comp.databases.informix but that's very quiet. There are forums on the
International Informix User Group site where I think most of the traffic
has gone & although I'm a member I don't go there very often; being
retired I have no ongoing professional reason & can't be bothered going
through login.

[Robert Riches]

On 2014-10-08, singhals via <gen...@rootsweb.com> wrote:
> Ian Goddard via wrote:
>> On 08/10/14 15:54, singhals via wrote:
>>>
>>> As a list-admin for several lists at Rootsweb, I'll share my experiences
>>> for the common pond of knowledge. :^)
>>>
>>> First, user error has made a dent in the numbers. A newcomer signs up
>>> for the gencmp list and gets messages about "Some program I never heard
>>> of" and marks it S**M. User's ISP decides Rootsweb is a spammer and
>>> blocks it. The first hundred times, the other subscribers to gencmp can
>>> handle; after that, they get just quit trying.
>>>
>>> Then S**M controls have gotten so tight it's a wonder any of us get any
>>> email from an ISP not our own. You'll have noticed the word via in the
>>> From displays? That's because without it, none of the RW's list mail
>>> was getting through the filters -- the sender after all wasn't who the
>>> headers SAID it was from.
>>
>> Maybe mail lists as opposed to newsgroups are part of the problem (and
>> gateways between the two are a problem in their own right - see below).
>> And accessing messages via the web may be another.
>
> Yeah, I really *DO* miss the newsgroups! But, my ISP
> decided it didn't want to get sued because some ya-hoo said
> something offensive, so they cut that out several years back.

My ISP did the same thing. From experience using them, I
recommend individual.net at 10 EUR per year. They're also in a
different country from me, so I don't have to worry as much about
Andy Cuomo trying to sue them out of existence.

HTH

--
Robert Riches
spamt...@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[Ian Goddard]

My original ISP was repeatedly taken over with no major ill-effects
until it fell into the hands of talktalk who didn't shut down newsgroups
but choked traffic during the day to the point where they were unusable.
After several complaints to their customer service (I think they
probably knew how to spell the term) I subscribed to individual.net and
jumped to another ISP until that was taken over. My current ISP
provides newsgroups but I've kept the individual.net as they have pretty
good spam filtering. 10 EUR with them is brilliant value for money.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 19:32:58 +0100, "Steven Gibbs"
<stev...@sgibbs1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>I think that the availability of online records has reduced the need for
>mailing lists (and newsgroups and fora) dramatically. People used to ask for
>lookups, now they no longer need to. People used to ask for help, now they
>just copy someone's tree from Ancestry.

Bingo!

It has been several years since I found anything on-line (except Find
A Grave) that helped me. At Ancestry I can find 8 or 9 sets of parents
for my GGGrandfather.

Hugh

[PowerPost 2K]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:31:20 +0100, Graham Ward via
<gen...@rootsweb.com> wrote:

>Alternatively "Why don't we use mailing lists any more?"

I've been on the Internet since 1990. At that time email and
newsgroups were the only way to communicate. My rough sense is that
email and newsgroup use peaked around 2000. Today, email (and with
them email distribution groups) is seen as antiquated for general
communication; only geeks know about newsgroups and only diehard geeks
still use them.

I don't believe email will die, but one has to accept that for many
it's no longer the preferred form of communication.

[Steve Hayes]

Well with the postal strike into its xth week, I really don't know what the
alternative to e-mail would be -- carrier pigeon? Does anyone use telex any
more?

[Denis Beauregard]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:29:45 +0200, Steve Hayes
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:

>On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 23:08:43 -0400, PowerPost 2K <no....@noname.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:31:20 +0100, Graham Ward via
>><gen...@rootsweb.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Alternatively "Why don't we use mailing lists any more?"
>>
>>I've been on the Internet since 1990. At that time email and
>>newsgroups were the only way to communicate. My rough sense is that
>>email and newsgroup use peaked around 2000. Today, email (and with
>>them email distribution groups) is seen as antiquated for general
>>communication; only geeks know about newsgroups and only diehard geeks
>>still use them.
>>
>>I don't believe email will die, but one has to accept that for many
>>it's no longer the preferred form of communication.
>
>Well with the postal strike into its xth week, I really don't know what the
>alternative to e-mail would be -- carrier pigeon? Does anyone use telex any
>more?

texting by cell phone or facebook.


Denis

--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:32:41 -0400, Denis Beauregard
<denis.b-at-f...@fr.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:29:45 +0200, Steve Hayes
><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:
>
>>On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 23:08:43 -0400, PowerPost 2K <no....@noname.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:31:20 +0100, Graham Ward via
>>><gen...@rootsweb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Alternatively "Why don't we use mailing lists any more?"
>>>
>>>I've been on the Internet since 1990. At that time email and
>>>newsgroups were the only way to communicate. My rough sense is that
>>>email and newsgroup use peaked around 2000. Today, email (and with
>>>them email distribution groups) is seen as antiquated for general
>>>communication; only geeks know about newsgroups and only diehard geeks
>>>still use them.
>>>
>>>I don't believe email will die, but one has to accept that for many
>>>it's no longer the preferred form of communication.
>>
>>Well with the postal strike into its xth week, I really don't know what the
>>alternative to e-mail would be -- carrier pigeon? Does anyone use telex any
>>more?
>
>texting by cell phone or facebook.

That brings us round full circle.

A bit like saying only diehard geeks know how to use antiquated devices like
tin openers. The rest use hammers and screwdrivers.

[singhals via]

Denis Beauregard via wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:29:45 +0200, Steve Hayes
> <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 23:08:43 -0400, PowerPost 2K<no....@noname.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:31:20 +0100, Graham Ward via
>>> <gen...@rootsweb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alternatively "Why don't we use mailing lists any more?"
>>>
>>> I've been on the Internet since 1990. At that time email and
>>> newsgroups were the only way to communicate. My rough sense is that
>>> email and newsgroup use peaked around 2000. Today, email (and with
>>> them email distribution groups) is seen as antiquated for general
>>> communication; only geeks know about newsgroups and only diehard geeks
>>> still use them.
>>>
>>> I don't believe email will die, but one has to accept that for many
>>> it's no longer the preferred form of communication.
>>
>> Well with the postal strike into its xth week, I really don't know what the
>> alternative to e-mail would be -- carrier pigeon? Does anyone use telex any
>> more?
>
> texting by cell phone or facebook.

But, how do you know WHO to text?

[btw - email me off list if you read Kaskaskia Papers.]

Cheryl

[Steve Hayes]

And the only thing I ever put in direct messages in Facebook is my e-mail
address and ask them to contact me through that.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:32:41 -0400, Denis Beauregard
<denis.b-at-f...@fr.invalid> wrote:

>texting by cell phone or facebook.
>
>
>Denis

I must admit that I pity people whose life is so shallow that they
have to resort to texting, Facebook and Twitter. That includes those
in my direct family who are so limited.

I attend football games where teeny-boppers don't even realize a game
is in progress. While waiting in a dentist office a couple of days ago
a female probably in her 20s stared at her cell phone for more than 5
minutes without using it.

I suppose it could be worse - they could be watching grass grow or
paint dry.

Hugh

[Dennis]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 13:12:52 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
wrote:

>they could be watching grass grow

Don't knock it. I love to sit out on my deck this time of year with an
adult beverage and watch the grass grow. ;-)

I've earned it!

Unfortunately, I still have to mow it for another month.

--

Dennis

[Denis Beauregard]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 15:04:45 -0400, Dennis <nob...@nowhere.invalid>
wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:

Too many leaves on my grass to mow it. But the tree of my neighbour is
losing its leaves about 1 month after mine so I will have to repeat
the cleaning.

[singhals via]

Denis Beauregard via wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 15:04:45 -0400, Dennis<nob...@nowhere.invalid>
> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:
>
>> On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 13:12:52 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> they could be watching grass grow
>>
>> Don't knock it. I love to sit out on my deck this time of year with an
>> adult beverage and watch the grass grow. ;-)
>>
>> I've earned it!
>>
>> Unfortunately, I still have to mow it for another month.
>
> Too many leaves on my grass to mow it. But the tree of my neighbour is
> losing its leaves about 1 month after mine so I will have to repeat
> the cleaning.

Awww, Denis, don't repeat it -- wait until HIS trees are
bare before you do more than shake your head over it. :)

Cheryl

[Ian Goddard]

On 16/10/14 14:12, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:32:41 -0400, Denis Beauregard
> <denis.b-at-f...@fr.invalid> wrote:
>
>> texting by cell phone or facebook.
>>
>>
>> Denis
>
> I must admit that I pity people whose life is so shallow that they
> have to resort to texting, Facebook and Twitter. That includes those
> in my direct family who are so limited.
>
> I attend football games where teeny-boppers don't even realize a game
> is in progress. While waiting in a dentist office a couple of days ago
> a female probably in her 20s stared at her cell phone for more than 5
> minutes without using it.

Living in a slightly touristy area I sometimes see folk wandering about
with tablets. They're not looking at their surroundings, they're
looking at what their tablet's camera is showing them or their
surroundings. Weird.

[Ian Goddard]

They're not looking at their surroundings, they're looking at what

their tablet's camera is showing them *of* their surroundings.

[Denis Beauregard]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:55:33 +0100, Ian Goddard
<godd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:

>Living in a slightly touristy area I sometimes see folk wandering about
>with tablets. They're not looking at their surroundings, they're
>looking at what their tablet's camera is showing them or their
>surroundings. Weird.

I remember hiking I did last year. While near the summit, someone was
using his tablet to take pictures. And I had my own camera. I don't
see what is wrong in taking photos, from camera or tablet they are
souvenirs.

[Ian Goddard]

On 16/10/14 23:06, Denis Beauregard wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:55:33 +0100, Ian Goddard
> <godd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:
>
>> Living in a slightly touristy area I sometimes see folk wandering about
>> with tablets. They're not looking at their surroundings, they're
>> looking at what their tablet's camera is showing them or their
>> surroundings. Weird.
>
> I remember hiking I did last year. While near the summit, someone was
> using his tablet to take pictures. And I had my own camera. I don't
> see what is wrong in taking photos, from camera or tablet they are
> souvenirs.
>

What's odd is when you see folk walking round gazing at their
surroundings via the tablet's camera. Reality ceases to be perceived
directly.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 15:04:45 -0400, Dennis <nob...@nowhere.invalid>

wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 13:12:52 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
>wrote:
>
>>they could be watching grass grow
>
>Don't knock it. I love to sit out on my deck this time of year with an
>adult beverage and watch the grass grow. ;-)

There is no way I can argue with replacing the cell phone with an
adult beverage in such a situation.

Hugh

[Chris J Dixon]

Paul Blair wrote:

>A number of things are in play...
>
>1. Newsgroups are being deprecated by ISP's, or put behind paywalls.

True, ISPs are withdrawing their own service, but it doesn't take
a lot of effort to find free access from the likes of Eternal
September.

>2. Companion devices (iThingies etc) and their partner apps are allowing
>mobility and enhanced connrctivity.

I would say that, increasingly, new users see web forums as much
more visually attractive and accessible. Sadly, they don't
realise how much better usenet is with a good newsreader.

Also, many read via Google Groups, which seems to be gradually
tweaked to make it harder to use properly, and exhibits behaviour
which makes its posts difficult to handle, such as no quoted
text, and extra line feeds. Add to this the unobtrusive display
of original posting date, which leads to lots of responses to
threads from many years ago

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.

[Chris J Dixon]

Steve Hayes wrote:

>On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:48:52 +0000, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

>>True, ISPs are withdrawing their own service, but it doesn't take
>>a lot of effort to find free access from the likes of Eternal
>>September.
>

>It was a little disingenuous of them to advertise "full internet access" and
>then to arbitrarily limit it without reducing their rates accordingly.

They mostly seem to have pretty clever small print, in which
almost everything you actually want out of the service is
provided as a free adjunct, so if it isn't available, they aren't
liable. :-(

[Ian Goddard]

On 07/11/14 08:58, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:48:52 +0000, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>> True, ISPs are withdrawing their own service, but it doesn't take
>>> a lot of effort to find free access from the likes of Eternal
>>> September.
>>
>> It was a little disingenuous of them to advertise "full internet access" and
>> then to arbitrarily limit it without reducing their rates accordingly.
>
> They mostly seem to have pretty clever small print, in which
> almost everything you actually want out of the service is
> provided as a free adjunct, so if it isn't available, they aren't
> liable. :-(

Something odd's going on here. I see neither of the posts Chris is
referencing. Both of his posts are threaded together and then threaded
under my reply of 9th Oct to Robert.

[Robert Riches]

On 2014-11-07, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
> Paul Blair wrote:
>
>>A number of things are in play...
>>
>>1. Newsgroups are being deprecated by ISP's, or put behind paywalls.
>
> True, ISPs are withdrawing their own service, but it doesn't take
> a lot of effort to find free access from the likes of Eternal
> September.

Fwiw, I have been very happy with individual.net since my ISP
became an IAP (Internet Access Provider). It isn't terribly
expensive, and it's outside the USA, so Andy Cuomo can't bully
them. (Most of my subscribed groups are Linux-related in case it
might be relevant to anyone.)

[Paul Blair]

A number of things are in play...

1. Newsgroups are being deprecated by ISP's, or put behind paywalls.

2. Companion devices (iThingies etc) and their partner apps are allowing
mobility and enhanced connrctivity.

Paul

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:48:52 +0000, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

>Paul Blair wrote:
>
>>A number of things are in play...
>>
>>1. Newsgroups are being deprecated by ISP's, or put behind paywalls.
>
>True, ISPs are withdrawing their own service, but it doesn't take
>a lot of effort to find free access from the likes of Eternal
>September.

It was a little disingenuous of them to advertise "full internet access" and
then to arbitrarily limit it without reducing their rates accordingly.

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 09:36:05 +0000, Ian Goddard <godd...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

Chris replied to Paul and I replied to Chris, but though Paul's post shows up
in my reader as a reply to you, he didn't quote anything you wrote, so I
assumed he was just making a general comment on the thread.

[Ian Goddard]

On 07/11/14 14:16, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 09:36:05 +0000, Ian Goddard <godd...@hotmail.co.uk>

>> Something odd's going on here. I see neither of the posts Chris is
>> referencing. Both of his posts are threaded together and then threaded
>> under my reply of 9th Oct to Robert.
>
> Chris replied to Paul and I replied to Chris, but though Paul's post shows up
> in my reader as a reply to you, he didn't quote anything you wrote, so I
> assumed he was just making a general comment on the thread.
>
>

Both your post & Paul's appeared by this morning. It looks as if
something has been slowing down propagation. Maybe a node was out
somewhere. Both individual.net and my own ISP which, IIRC, is a
repackaging of Giginews, were affected.

Not that it helps much at present. I lost my computer specs yesterday &
I'm struggling to read anything :(