Re: Some Chinese Provinces Forcing Sterilization of Retarded Couples
James
> Demorising wrote:
> > On Sep 4, 9:31 am, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Sep 4, 5:59 am, The Cynic <i.thecy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Sep 4, 7:33 pm, "P. Rajah" <u...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> >>>> Some Chinese Provinces Forcing Sterilization of Retarded Couples
> >>>> By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF,
> >>>> Published: Thursday, August 15, 1991
> >>>> With the aim of improving the "population quality," a number of Chinese
> >>>> provinces are banning mentally retarded people from marrying unless they
> >>>> are sterilized first. If they evade sterilization and become pregnant,
> >>>> abortions are obligatory.
> >>>> Gansu Province in northwestern China in 1988 became the first to adopt a
> >>>> law of eugenics, the study of how to improve a population by limiting
> >>>> reproduction of those who are deemed to be less capable. That law has
> >>>> led to the sterilization of more than 5,000 mentally retarded people in
> >>>> Gansu. Since then several other regions in China have adopted similar
> >>>> eugenics laws and Prime Minister Li Peng has backed such measures. A
> >>>> national eugenics law is also being drafted.
> >>>> The eugenics measures have aroused a ripple of protest abroad, but
> >>>> virtually no opposition in China. In a country where the accent has
> >>>> historically been on the collective interest rather than on individual
> >>>> rights, _where a prime slogan is_ "_limit the population quantity_,
> >>>> _improve the population quality_," eugenics seems natural.
> >>>>http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/15/world/some-chinese-provinces-forcin...
> >>> Come, come. This practice should be enforced by all RESPONSIBLE
> >>> governments. What are the chances of a retarded woman giving birth to
> >>> a normal child? If forced sterilization is not carried out, the
> >>> retarded person, who is already a liability to him/herself, will bring
> >>> forth more retarded offspring. How are they going to earn their keep?
> >>> Depend on charitable organizations?
> >>> In my travels across India, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brazil and
> >>> Philippines, I have seen mentally retarded children and adults along
> >>> streets and places where people gather, pitifully looking at passers
> >>> by and begging for alms. Their misery and suffering would not have
> >>> about had their retarded parents been sterilized.You must accept this
> >>> is a hard world. And this calls for hard decisions.
> >> Wise comment, The Cynic. I agree with you totally.
>
> > Why stop at the retarded? Why not sterilize anyone with IQ under 150?
> > Clearly the "cutoff" is arbitrary in principle, and set to affect a
> > small fraction of the population in practice so it can be "socially
> > acceptable."
>
> Perhaps they would also extend it to gays and people with
> "anti-government" tendencies. Hey, it's an authoritarian regime that has
> China wrapped up tight as a drum, they can do anything they want.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t77bLtIck2g- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
That is a great way to cut down on the Chinkie population! There will
be less Chinks on Earth. The question is, do we want a Chinkland
populated with only super intelligent, no-defect commie Chinks?
Ben
Because the rest of the democratic world cannot do that, in a 100
years Vietnam and China will have the best and most healthy people.
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t77bLtIck2g-Hide quoted text -
wusong
Chinese and Vietnamese be treated likewise? Supposing only one tenth
of the population survives, how many Hmong people would be left on
Earth?
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t77bLtIck2g-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > That is a great way to cut down on the Chinkie population! There will
> > be less Chinks on Earth. The question is, do we want a Chinkland
> > populated with only super intelligent, no-defect commie Chinks?- Hide quoted text -
wusong
Chinese and Vietnamese be treated likewise? Supposing only one tenth
Earth?
On Sep 5, 7:55 am, Ben <pb5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t77bLtIck2g-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > That is a great way to cut down on the Chinkie population! There will
> > be less Chinks on Earth. The question is, do we want a Chinkland
> > populated with only super intelligent, no-defect commie Chinks?- Hide quoted text -
wusong
an elder sister who was mentally retarded; their parents had to agree
to her being sterilized when they put her into an intensive-care home.
Nothing was in writing, but we all knew it, and no one even raised an
eyebrow - everyone knew it was for her own good and the good of the
people around her that she didn't have any children. They were White
Caucasian Americans. Many things are done "under the radar" here in
the U.S., and we must not look down on others with a "Holier than
Thou" attitude, which seems to be the only thing with which you occupy
yourself.
> acceptable."- Hide quoted text -
jupiterean
> I remember when I was studying at UCLA, that one of my classmates had
> an elder sister who was mentally retarded; their parents had to agree
> to her being sterilized when they put her into an intensive-care home.
> Nothing was in writing, but we all knew it, and no one even raised an
> eyebrow - everyone knew it was for her own good and the good of the
> people around her that she didn't have any children. They were White
> Caucasian Americans. Many things are done "under the radar" here in
> the U.S., and we must not look down on others with a "Holier than
> Thou" attitude, which seems to be the only thing with which you occupy
> yourself.
>
You failed to see the difference between the choice of a private
family and
the policy of a government.
wusong
particular incident, only because I knew the family. How many others
were carried out without he knowledge of others outside the operating
rooms?
wusong
carried out without the knowledge of others outside the operating
rooms?
On Sep 5, 10:34 am, jupiterean <jupiter...@gmail.com> wrote:
hotac
entering Heaven, and those who want to get rid of defects, deserve
entering Hell.
Regardless which way you consider, all beings are created by God,
whomever you believe in. If you criticize God's work, you are
subjected to punishment.
jupiterean
> Did you know that this was permitted? I didn't. I knew about that
> particular incident, because I knew the family. How many others were
> carried out without the knowledge of others outside the operating
> rooms?
I pointed out what you missed. The rest is up to you.
wusong
there.
wusong
in the U.S. Until then, I wasn't.
jupiterean
> I responded, and asked whether you were aware of these goings-on here
> in the U.S. Until then, I wasn't.
To answer your question, I was. Personally I agree that mentally
inflicted people should not reproduce, but that choice should be left
to private families, not the government.
wusong
different nations have different, often contradicting, laws and
regulations. What is good and what works for the USA doesn't
necessarily mean that it does for China, and vice versa.
Were you then also aware of this
http://www.javno.com/en-world/usa-continues-to-execute-mentally-retarded_153196
? Again, I certainly wasn't.
jupiterean
> Which necessitates my pointing out how different cultures and
> different nations have different, often contradicting, laws and
> regulations. What is good and what works for the USA doesn't
> necessarily mean that it does for China, and vice versa.
>
nations may be different in customs, but there are universal values
when it comes to basic humanism.
the US has its share of screwing up, but at least here we are free to
criticize and do something positive.
wusong
attitude by saying "but at least here".
xangdi
"But at least here" we are better at covering up and at throwing the
light and attention to those Commie Chinks instead, right?
jupiterean
> So, we return to a variation of the "Holier than Thou" bigoted
> attitude by saying "but at least here".
>
The "Holier Than Thou" accusation is just a weak weapon used by those
who have problems but resent criticism.
Instead of tackling the issue you have resorted to general labeling,
which reveals your caliber.
No longer interested.
jupiterean
>
> "But at least here" we are better at covering up and at throwing the
> light and attention to those Commie Chinks instead, right?
Not at all, but you'll never get it.
xangdi
But of course - you just brush it aside and you will never admit it.
Very convenient. Ostrich, anyone?
Anti-StupidDabianchenVirus
and make them change their laws? Ahem, when was the last time you went
to Capital Hill and changed a bill? Saw your image on the mirror and
fled?
wusong
and make them change their laws? Ahem, when was the last time you went
mirror and fled?
On Sep 5, 12:59 pm, jupiterean <jupiter...@gmail.com> wrote:
ww
> If China do that, Vietnam should do the same to keep up with China.
> Because the rest of the democratic world cannot do that, in a 100
> years Vietnam and China will have the best and most healthy people.
The Germans tried that in the past... slippery slope...
James
They might have succeeded had they just stopped at that.
wusong
and who are not? Don't forget that Einstein failed in maths at school.
How would you personally fare in such a test? Judging from your posts
- not well at all.
On Sep 6, 2:18 am, Penang <kalamb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I find myself agreeing with that Holdren guy
>
> There are just way too many stupid retards around, way too many !
>
> On Sep 5, 12:34 pm, ltlee1 <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 4, 9:40 am, Penang <kalamb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > So?
>
> > The is no "So."
> > The netter dug up a 18 years article for a reason. He was unhappy
> > about the attack on Obama's Sciences Czar, John Holdren, who is an
> > extreme environmentalist favoring the environmnet over human life.
> > According to him, extreme and indiscrimiante measures may one day be
> > necessary.
>
> > "Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control
> > laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be
> > sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis
> > became sufficiently severe to endanger the society."
>
> > > India is filled with idiot pariahs, and they are still breeding like
> > > mad
>
> > > On Sep 4, 4:33 am, "P. Rajah" <u...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Some Chinese Provinces Forcing Sterilization of Retarded Couples
> > > > By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF,
> > > > Published: Thursday, August 15, 1991
>
> > > > With the aim of improving the "population quality," a number of Chinese
> > > > provinces are banning mentally retarded people from marrying unless they
> > > > are sterilized first. If they evade sterilization and become pregnant,
> > > > abortions are obligatory.
>
> > > > Gansu Province in northwestern China in 1988 became the first to adopt a
> > > > law of eugenics, the study of how to improve a population by limiting
> > > > reproduction of those who are deemed to be less capable. That law has
> > > > led to the sterilization of more than 5,000 mentally retarded people in
> > > > Gansu. Since then several other regions in China have adopted similar
> > > > eugenics laws and Prime Minister Li Peng has backed such measures. A
> > > > national eugenics law is also being drafted.
>
> > > > The eugenics measures have aroused a ripple of protest abroad, but
> > > > virtually no opposition in China. In a country where the accent has
> > > > historically been on the collective interest rather than on individual
> > > > rights, _where a prime slogan is_ "_limit the population quantity_,
> > > > _improve the population quality_," eugenics seems natural.
>
> > > >http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/15/world/some-chinese-provinces-forcin...quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
wusong
Ben
The victors wrote the history, so the losers became the bad guys.
Actually, nature put in place the principle of survival of the fittest
only the strongest bull, lions can mate and reproduce, only strongest
animal can survive, but in human race people changed that principle
and allowed the bad gene to reproduce. Eventually, ideologies will
destroy the human race and only animals will survive. The movie series
"Planet of the Apes" pointed out the flaws and hypocrisies of human
race.
Today it is not possible to impose or implement law of nature in the
U.S. but in communist nations like China and Vietnam the government
could implement that law to catch up with the West. They could also
get into mass production (clone) of smart and good looking people. If
a Christian nation such as Nazis Germany could do that, atheist
nations such as Communist Vietnam and China could do whatever they
want.
wusong
On Sep 6, 8:31 am, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 6, 7:48 am, The Cynic <i.thecy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > On Sep 5, 10:53 pm, Free Tibet <freeti...@nym.mixmin.net> wrote:
>
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
>
> > > It's just as sickening on a second read. It's called Eugenics.
>
> > > Wiki defines it thus:
> > > Eugenics is "the study of, or belief in, the possibility of improving
> > > the qualities of the human species or a human population by such means
> > > as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or
> > > presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or
> > > encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable
> > > desirable traits (positive eugenics)."[2] Prominent in the late 19th
> > > century and the Progressive Era, eugenics became a core tenet of some
> > > of the policies behind Adolf Hitler's Nazi regime.
>
> > > Sums it up nicely. Maybe you and the cynic were born a little too late?
>
> > (snipped)
>
> > Now, leave high sounding words like eugenics aside and come down to
> > basics. If you have a mentally retarded daughter/son or sister/
> > brother, would you sterilize them?
>
> A definite yes.
P. Rajah
> Did you know that this was permitted? I didn't. I knew about that
> particular incident, only because I knew the family. How many others
> were carried out without he knowledge of others outside the operating
> rooms?
I don't see the connection between admitting her to an intensive-care
home and sterilising her. The only reason, as far as I can see, is that
the "home" is aware of improper conduct on the part of their staff, and
is preempting lawsuits should she become pregnant. If it was my child, I
would not admit her to a facility that imposes such a condition.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/04/05/doctor_on_trial_in_missed_pregnancy_of_raped_coma_patient/
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=19850919&id=Ju4QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1Y0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6854,2849961
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8222689.stm
http://olympia.injuryboard.com/property-owners-liability-slip-and-fall/state-pays-25-million-for-rape-of-mentally-ill-woman.aspx?googleid=224544
wusong
The fact of the matter remains - you are *not* her parents, and you
are *not* subjected to those pressures and conditions. You are just an
ignoramus, who fantasizes in Cyber Space.
On Sep 6, 9:22 am, "P. Rajah" <u...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> wusong wrote:
> > Did you know that this was permitted? I didn't. I knew about that
> > particular incident, only because I knew the family. How many others
> > were carried out without he knowledge of others outside the operating
> > rooms?
>
> I don't see the connection between admitting her to an intensive-care
> home and sterilising her. The only reason, as far as I can see, is that
> the "home" is aware of improper conduct on the part of their staff, and
> is preempting lawsuits should she become pregnant. If it was my child, I
> would not admit her to a facility that imposes such a condition.
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 5, 10:34 am, jupiterean <jupiter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sep 5, 12:33 pm, wusong <wus...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I remember when I was studying at UCLA, that one of my classmates had
> >>> an elder sister who was mentally retarded; their parents had to agree
> >>> to her being sterilized when they put her into an intensive-care home.
> >>> Nothing was in writing, but we all knew it, and no one even raised an
> >>> eyebrow - everyone knew it was for her own good and the good of the
> >>> people around her that she didn't have any children. They were White
> >>> Caucasian Americans. Many things are done "under the radar" here in
> >>> the U.S., and we must not look down on others with a "Holier than
> >>> Thou" attitude, which seems to be the only thing with which you occupy
> >>> yourself.
> >> You failed to see the difference between the choice of a private
> >> family and
> >> the policy of a government.- Hide quoted text -
James
Why don't you gooks ever get it into your thick heads? Either you do
it The American Way, or you don't get to do it at all, period!
ww
James T. Kirk
Name: James T. Kirk
Location: New Mexico
Title:
Industry: Scientific
Email address: kir...@hotmail.com
P. Rajah
> The inevitable question arises - who are to judge who are intelligent
> and who are not? Don't forget that Einstein failed in maths at school.
> How would you personally fare in such a test? Judging from your posts
> - not well at all.
And how will they deal with the "retards" born not with genetic defects,
but defects created by the rampant unregulated environmental degradation
caused by China's disregard for safety? Should genetically healthy
Chinese not be protected from these effects, so that they may produce
healthy, productive, perhaps even brilliant children instead of "retards"?
James
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'll tell Scotty to beam you up to the Enterprise.
James
> >>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why don't you Chinks and Atjahs just go back to work and supply us
with cheap consumer goods instead of wasting your time in forums you
can't comprehend?
P. Rajah
> No, I don't suppose you would.
>
> The fact of the matter remains - you are *not* her parents, and you
> are *not* subjected to those pressures and conditions. You are just an
> ignoramus, who fantasizes in Cyber Space.
As opposed to a super-smart Chinaman like you who doesn't get the simple
discordance in why a long-term care facility would illegally impose a
condition that has no medically necessary bearing on the treatment of
the patient("nothing was in writing"!!!), and why the parents would
consent to such a bizarre condition? That is giving consent for the
daughter to be raped. Sterilization cannot be performed in any state in
the US without a consent form from either the patient or the legal
guardian/agent, and a report that needs to be filed with Health and
Human Services. No facility will perform the procedure without the
required paperwork, and they could be bankrupted easily if they did. And
how do we know that you didn't just make this sh*t up? You could just be
another "ignoramus, who fantasizes in Cyber Space".
-------------------------------------------------------
California law does not allow the agent to consent to commitment or
placement in a mental health treatment facility. Nor can the agent
consent to psychosurgery, sterilization, abortion, or electroconvulsive
treatment (ECT).
http://www.examiner.com/x-5524-LA-Mental-Health-Examiner~y2009m6d18-Psychaitric-advance-directives-in-California
P. Rajah
James, dear chappie, one does not need to "comprehend" a forum, inasmuch
as a forum is merely an arena or a public square, if you will, and not a
thesis or dissertation. If you would like to post comprehensible remarks
or questions on this thread, I'm quite certain we "Chinks and Atjahs"
would do our best to educate you.
Otoh, it appears that you are a troll, since all the groups that this
thread is posted to are "Chink and Atjah" groups. Bring the car around,
won't you, James?