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Apr 10, 2010, 5:52:14 PM4/10/10

Caste Cast in Stone: Sid Harth

Jat people
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"Jat" redirects here. For other uses, see Jat (disambiguation).

जाट جاٹ ਜੱਟ
Maharaja Churaman • Bhagat Singh • Gurdas Mann • Bobby Deol
Bhagat Dhanna • Foolabai • Maharaja Kishan Singh • Simi Garewal
Total population
33 million[1]
Regions with significant populations
• India • Pakistan
Languages
• Punjabi • Hindi • Urdu

Religion
• Hinduism • Sikhism • Islam

Related ethnic groups
other Indo-Aryan peoples

The Jat people (Hindi: जाट Jāṭ, Punjabi: ਜੱਟ Jaṭṭ) are a historical
Indo-Aryan tribal group native to the Punjab region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_region

The Jats rose to prominence following the 1669 Jat uprising against
Mughal rule, and they ruled various princely states throughout the
18th century. After 1858, under the British Raj, the Jats were known
for their service in the Indian Army, being categorized as a "martial
race" by the British, specifically in the Jat Regiment, the Punjab
Regiment and the Sikh Regiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1669_Jat_uprising
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_history_(1669-1858)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Raj
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_Regiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_Regiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Regiment

In 1931, the date of the last census of the British Raj before the
abolition of caste, they were distributed throughout North India,
mostly in the Punjab and Rajputana. Today, they form a social group in
both India and Pakistan, organized in numerous clans, with an
estimated total population of roughly 33 million.

Name

A Scythian horseman from the general area of the Ili river, Pazyryk, c
300 BCE.The name Jat has frequently been connected to the names of the
Getae and Massagetae, beginning with James Tod in 1829.[2] This
suggests an ultimate origin of the Jat tribal group in the Indo-
Scythian period of roughly 200 BC to AD 400. Alexander Cunningham
connected it with the name of the Xanthii.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massagetae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tod
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Cunningham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthii

The tribal name Jat is first mentioned in the Mahabharata. Jat
historian Thakur Deshraj suggested that Jat is a Prakrit derivation
from Sanskrit jñāta, based on Panini's mention of Aṣṭādhyāyī in the
form of shloka as जट झट सङ्घाते jat jhat sanghate.[4][5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thakur_Deshraj
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prakrit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astadhyayi

Deshraj further supposes that the name originates with the jñātisaṃgha
(ज्ञातिसंघ) that according to the Mahabharata was formed by Krishna as
a federation of Vrishni and Andhaka clans.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrishni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andhaka

Jats are further mentioned in a 5th century grammar treatise by
Chandra, in the phrase अजय जर्टो हुणान ajaya jarto huṇān”, which
refers to the defeat of Huns by two Jat rulers under the leadership of
Yasodharman.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyakarana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasodharman

G. C. Dwivedi writes that the Persian Majmal-ut-Tawarikh mentions Jats
and Meds as the descendants of Ham (son of Noah), living in Sind on
the banks of the river Bahar.[8][9] S.M. Yunus Jaffery believes that
the Jat people have been mentioned in Shāhnāma, a well-known Persian
epic.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majmal_al-tawarikh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Med
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham_(son_of_Noah)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_people_in_Sh%C4%81hn%C4%81ma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language

The Jats have apparently formed during the centuries following the
collapse of the Kushan Empire, during the early medieval period. They
are assumed to be the product of admixture of Indo-Scythian elements
to local Indo-Aryan groups.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire

In 2007 a limited medical survey of Haplotypes frequently found in the
Jat Sikhs and Jats of Haryana, and the Romani populations resulted in
no matches.[12] However, the recent discovery in 2009 of the "Jat
mutation" that causes a type of glaucoma in Romani people. The press
release from Leeds University states:

"An international collaboration led by Manir Ali of the Leeds
Institute of Molecular Medicine, first identified the ‘Jatt’ mutation
in one of four Pakistani families. Further study amongst Roma
populations in Europe showed that the same mutation accounted for
nearly half of all cases of PCG [Primary congenital glaucoma] in that
community. Manir Ali’s research also confirms the widely accepted view
that the Roma originated from the Jatt clan of Northern India and
Pakistan and not from Eastern Europe as previously believed."[13][14]
[15]

There is some evidence connecting the Jats and the Romani people, the
descendants of Indo-Aryan groups which emigrated from India towards
Central Asia during the medieval period.[16] There are serological[17]
similarities shared with several populations that linked the two
people in a 1992 study.[18][19]

History

Medieval period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jats_in_the_pre-Aurangzeb_period

Maharaja Suraj Mal
Maharaja Ranjit Singh
Maharaja Bhim Singh Rana
Maharaja Bhupinder Singh

Maharaja ChuramanMain article: Jats in the pre-Aurangzeb period
There are very few records concerning Jats prior to the 17th century.
There are records of Jat states in Rajasthan (the north Rajasthan
region, then known as Jangladesh).[20] It is not known when Jat people
established themselves in the Indian desert. By the 4th century they
had spread to the Punjab. After this, foreign invaders had to
encounter with the Jats of this region.[21] The whole of the region
was composed of seven cantons namely Punia, Sihag, Godara, Saran,
Beniwal, Johiya and Kaswan[20][22]. Besides these cantons there were
several clans of Jats, simultaneously wrested from Rajput proprietors
for instance Bagor, Kharipatta, Mohila or Mehila,[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_states_in_Rajasthan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangladesh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punia_(Hinduism)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sihag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godara_(clan)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saharan_(gotra)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beniwal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johiya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaswan

K.R. Qanungo writes that when Muhammad bin Qasim invaded Sindh, the
Kaikan region in Sindh was in independent possession of the Jat people.
[24] In addition to frequent interaction with Jats (who for them
represented Indians), the first Arab invasions of Persia and Sindh
were met by the Jat people. According to Thakur Deshraj and
Cunningham, Jat people of the Panwhar clan ruled Umerkot in Sindh
prior to Mughal ruler Humayun.[25][26]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umerkot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humayun

Thakur Deshraj also mentions that the Susthan region in Sindh was
ruled by Chandra Ram, a Jat of Hala clan. Chandra Ram lost his kingdom
(known as Halakhandi) to the Muslim invaders sent by Muhammad bin
Qasim.[27][28]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hala

There is no information of any important Jat state during the two
centuries following Kushan rule. However, in the beginning of the
fifth century, there is evidence of the Jat ruler Maharaja Shalinder
ruling from "Shalpur" (the present-day Sialkot); his territory
extended from Punjab to Malwa and Rajasthan. This is indicated by the
Pali inscription obtained by James Tod from village Kanswa[29] in Kota
state in year 1820 AD.[30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharaja_Shalinder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malwa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanswa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kota,_Rajasthan

Jat uprising and aftermath

Main articles: 1669 Jat uprising and Jat history (1669-1858)'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1669_Jat_uprising
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_history_(1669-1858)

In 1699, the Jat people of the Gokula region around Mathura rebelled
against the powerful Mughal rulers (see 1669 Jat uprising).[31] The
rebellion resulted from political provocation aggravated by the
economic discontent, and further aggravated by the religious
persecution and discrimination.[32]

In the disorder following Aurangzeb's death in 1707, the Jat
resistance resumed, organized under the leadership of Churaman (1695–
1721). Churaman's nephew, Badan Singh (1722–1756), established a
kingdom centered at Deeg, from which he extended his rule over Agra
and Mathura. Badan Singh's eldest son and successor, Maharaja Suraj
Mal (1707–1763), extended his kingdom to include Agra, Mathura,
Dholpur, Mainpuri, Hathras, Aligarh, Etawah, Meerut, Rohtak (including
Bhiwani), Farrukhnagar, Mewat, Rewari and Gurgaon. He has been
described as one of the greatest Jat rulers.[33][34] Suraj Mal moved
the capital from Deeg to Bharatpur in 1733. Rustam, a Jat king of the
Sogariya clan, had previously laid the foundation of the modern city
of Bharatpur. During the British Raj, the princely state of Bharatpur
covered an area of 5,123 km2, and its rulers enjoyed a salute of 17
guns. The state acceded to the dominion of India in 1947.

Jat states of the 18th century

According to Cunningham and William Cook, the city of Gohad was
founded in 1505 by the Jats of Bamraulia village, who had been forced
to leave Bamraulia by a satrap of Firuz Shah Tughluq. Gohad developed
into an important Jat state, and was later captured by the Marathas.
The Jat people of Gohad signed a treaty with the British and helped
them capture Gwalior and Gohad from the Marathas. The British kept
Gwalior and handed control of Gohad to Jat people in 1804.[35] Gohad
was handed over to the Marathas under a revised treaty dated 22
November 1805 between the Marathas and the British. As a compensation
for Gohad, the Jat ruler Rana Kirat Singh was given Dhaulpur, Badi and
Rajakheda; Kirat Singh moved to Dhaulpur in December 1805.[35]

In the 10th century, the Jat people took control of Dholpur, which had
earlier been ruled by the Rajputs and the Yadavs. Dholpur was taken by
Sikandar Lodhi in 1501, who transferred it to a Muslim governor in
1504. In 1527, the Dholpur fort fell to Babur and continued to be
ruled by the Mughals until 1707. After the death of the Mughal emperor
Aurangzeb, Raja Kalyan Singh Bhadauria obtained possession of Dholpur,
and his family retained it until 1761. After that, Dholpur was taken
successively by the Jat ruler Maharaja Suraj Mal of Bharatpur; by
Mirza Najaf Khan in 1775; by the Scindia ruler of Gwalior in 1782; and
finally, by the British East India Company in 1803. It was restored by
the British to the Scindias under the Treaty of Sarji Anjangaon, but
in consequence of new arrangements, was again occupied by the British.
In 1806, Dholpur again came under the Jat rulers, when it was handed
over to Kirat Singh of Gohad. Dholpur thus became a princely state, a
vassal of the British during the Raj.

Ballabhgarh was another important princely state established by the
Jat people of the Tewatia clan, who had come from Janauli village.
Balram Singh, the brother-in-law of Maharaja Suraj Mal was the first
powerful ruler of Ballabhgarh. Raja Nahar Singh (1823–1858) was
another notable king of this princely state.

Other Jat states of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries included
Kuchesar (ruled by the Dalal Jat clan of Mandoti, Haryana), and the
Mursan state (the present-day Hathras district in Uttar Pradesh) ruled
by the Thenua Jats.

The Jat people also briefly ruled at Gwalior and Agra. The Jat rulers
Maharaja Bhim Singh Rana (1707–1756) and Maharaja Chhatar Singh Rana
(1757–1782) occupied the Gwalior fort twice, Maharaja Bhim Singh Rana
from 1740 to 1756, and Maharaja Chhatra Singh Rana from 1780 to 1783.
Maharaja Suraj Mal captured Agra Fort on 12 June 1761 and it remained
in the possession of Bharatpur rulers till 1774.[36] After Maharaja
Suraj Mal, Maharaja Jawahar Singh, Maharaja Ratan Singh and Maharaja
Kehri Singh (minor) under resident ship of Maharaja Nawal Singh ruled
over Agra Fort.

Sikh States

Patiala and Nabha were two important Sikh[37][38] states in Punjab,
ruled by the Jat-Sikh [39] people of the Siddhu clan.[40] The Jind
state in present-day Haryana was founded by the descendants of Phul
Jat of Siddhu ancestry.[40] These states were formed with the Military
assistance of the 6th Sikh Guru, known as Guru Har Gobind.[41] The
rulers of Faridkot were Brar Jat Sikhs.[42] The princely state of
Kalsia was ruled by Sandhu Jat Sikhs.[43]

Maharaja Ranjit Singh (1780–1839) of the Sandhawalia[40] Jat clan
(other historians assert a Sansi Caste lineage to Maharaja Ranjit
Singh[44]) of Punjab became the Sikh emperor of the sovereign country
of Punjab and the Sikh Empire. He united the Sikh factions into one
state, and conquered vast tracts of territory on all sides of his
kingdom. From the capture of Lahore in 1799, he rapidly annexed the
rest of the Punjab. To secure his empire, he invaded Afghanistan, and
defeated the Pathan militias and tribes. Ranjit Singh took the title
of "Maharaja" on April 12, 1801 (to coincide with Baisakhi day).
Lahore served as his capital from 1799. In 1802 he took the city of
Amritsar. In the year 1802, Ranjit Singh successfully invaded Kashmir.

Demographics

Today, the largest population centre is located in the Punjab region,
Haryana and Rajasthan; there are smaller distributions across the
world, due to the large immigrant diaspora. In the immigrant diaspora
major populations centres include the U.K., U.S., Canada, New Zealand,
Singapore, Japan, Indonesia, Russia, Belgium and Australia.

Census under the British Raj

The census in 1931 in India recorded population on the basis of
ethnicity. In 1925, the population of Jatts was around nine million in
South Asia and was made up of followers of three major religions as
shown below.[45]

Religion Jat Population %
Hinduism 47%
Islam 33%
Sikhism 20%

According to earlier censuses, the Jat people accounted for
approximately 25% of the entire Sindhi-Punjabi speaking area, making
it the "largest single socially distinctive group" in the region.[46]

According to Hukum Singh Pawar (Pauria), adequate statistics about
India's Jat population are available in the Census Report of India of
1931, which is the last and the most comprehensive source of
information on the Jat people, who were estimated to be approximately
ten million in number at that time.[47]

The region-wise breakdown of the total Jatt people population in 1931
(including Jat Hindus, Jat Sikhs and Jat Muslims) is given in the
following table. The Jat people, approximately 73%, were located
mainly in the Punjab region.[48]

Name of region Jat population 1931 Approx
Percentage

Punjab (British India) 6,068,302 73 %
Rajputana 1,043,153 12 %
United Provinces of Agra and Oudh 810,114 9.2 %
Kashmir and Jammu 148,993 2 %
Balochistan 93,726 1.2 %
NWFP 76,327 1 %
Bombay Presidency 54,362 0.7 %
Delhi 53,271 0.6 %
Central Provinces and Berar 28,135 0.3 %
Ajmer-Merwara 29,992 0.3 %
Total 8,406,375 100 %

Post-independence estimates

Dhillon (1988) states that by taking population statistical analysis
into consideration the Jatt population growth of both India and
Pakistan since 1925, Quanungo's figure of nine million could be
translated into a minimum population statistic (1988) of 30 million.
[49]

From 1931 to 1988 the estimated increase in the Jat people population
of the Indian subcontinent including Pakistan respectively is 3.5%
Hindu, 3.5% Sikh and 4.0% Muslim.[50] Sukhbir Singh estimates that the
population of Hindu Jatts, numbered at 2,210,945 in the 1931 census,
rose to about 7,738,308 by 1988, whereas Muslim Jatts, numbered at
3,287,875 in 1931, would have risen to about 13,151,500 in 1988. The
total population of Jatts was given as 8,406,375 in 1931, and
estimated to have been about 31,066,253 in 1988.

Republic of India

Jat people are considered a forward class in all the states of India
with those of Punjabi or Haryana origin. Some specific clans of Jat
people are classified as OBC in some states, e.g. Jat Muslim in
Gujarat[51] and Mirdha Jat people (except Jat Muslims) in Madhya
Pradesh.[52] Land reforms, particularly the abolition of Jagirdari and
Zamindari systems, Panchayati Raj and Green Revolution, to which Jat
people have been major contributors, have immensely contributed to the
economic betterment of the Jat people.

The Jat people are one of the most prosperous groups in India on a per-
capita basis (Punjab, Haryana, and Gujarat are the wealthiest of
Indian states).[53].Haryana has the largest number of rural crorepatis
in India,all of whome are Jats.[54]

Traditionally Jats have dominated as the political class in
Haryana[55] and Punjab.[56] A number of Jat people belonging to the
political classes have produced many political leaders, including the
6th Prime Minister of India, Prime Minister Chaudhary Charan Singh.

Adult franchise has created enormous social and political awakening
among Jat people. Consolidation of economic gains and participation in
the electoral process are two visible outcomes of the post-
independence situation. Through this participation they have been able
to significantly influence the politics of North India. Economic
differentiation, migration and mobility could be clearly noticed
amongst the Jat people.[57]

Pakistan

See also: Jats of Azad Kashmir, Jats of Jammu & Kashmir State, and
Muslim Jat of Punjab

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jats_of_Azad_Kashmir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jats_of_Jammu_%26_Kashmir_State#Demographics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Jat_of_Punjab

A large number of the Jat Muslim people live in Pakistan[58] and have
dominant roles in public life in the Punjab and Pakistan in general.
[59][60] In addition to the Punjab, Jat communities are also found in
Pakistani-administered Kashmir, in Sindh, particularly the Indus delta
and among Seraiki-speaking communities in southern Punjab, the Kachhi
region of Balochistan and the Dera Ismail Khan District of the North
West Frontier Province.

North American diaspora communities

The Association of Jats of America (AJATA) is the main Jat people
organization of North America.[61] It serves as the main body, forum
and lobby for Jat people issues in North America.

The North American Jat Charities (NAJC) is one of the main Jat people
charities of North America. It serves as a charity for the welfare of
Jat people in North America.[62]

Culture and society

Tejaji fairs are organized in all areas inhabited by Jats
Main article: Life and culture of Jat people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_culture_of_Jat_people

The life and culture of Jats is full of diversity and approaches most
closely to that ascribed to the traditional Central Asian colonists of
South Asia.[45][63] The Jat lifestyle was designed to foster a martial
spirit.[64] Whenever they lost their kingdoms, Jat people retired to
the country-side and became landed barons and the landlords with their
swords girded round their waists.[45] They would draw the sword out of
the scabbard at the command of their panchayat to fight with the
invaders. Jat people have a history of being brave and ready fighters.
[45] They are fiercely independent in character and value their self
respect more than anything, which is why they offered heavy resistance
against any foreign force that treated them unjustly.[45] They are
known for their pride, bravery and readyness to sacrifice their lives
in battle for their people and kinsmen.[63] In the government of their
villages, they appear much more democratic. They have less reverence
for hereditary right and a preference for elected headmen.[45]

Military

14th Murrays Jat Lancers (Risaldar Major) by AC Lovett
(1862-1919).jpg
A WW1 (1914-1918) Jat Army Officer's Brass Button - from the famous
9th Jat Regiment an elite-fighting Unit of the Jat RegimentA large
number of Jat people serve in the Indian Army, including the Jat
Regiment, Sikh Regiment, Rajputana Rifles and the Grenadiers, where
they have won many of the highest military awards for gallantry and
bravery. Jat people also serve in the Pakistan Army especially in the
Punjab Regiment, where they have also been highly decorated. The Jat
Regiment is an infantry regiment of the Indian Army, it is one of the
longest serving and most decorated regiments of the Indian Army.[65]
The regiment won 19 battle honours between 1839 and 1947[66] and post
independence 5 battle honours, eight Mahavir Chakra, eight Kirti
Chakra, 32 Shaurya Chakra, 39 Vir Chakra and 170 Sena Medals.[65]
Major Hoshiar Singh of Rohtak won the Param Vir Chakra during Indo-Pak
war of 1971. Rohtak district in Haryana, which has a high density of
Jat people, has the distinction of producing the highest number of
Victoria Cross winners of any district in India.

The Jat people were designated by British officials as a "martial
race", a designation created by officials of British India to describe
peoples that were thought to be naturally warlike and aggressive in
battle. The British recruited heavily from these martial races for
service in the colonial army.[67]

Religion

Historically, the Jat people have sent a very high percentage of their
eligible men to the army.Jat people are followers of many faiths.
Today they mostly follow Hinduism, Islam, or Sikhism, with a minority
following Christianity[citation needed].

In 1925, the population of the Jat people was around nine million in
British India, made up of followers of three major religions, Hinduism
(47%), Islam (33%) and Sikhism (20%).[45] During the early 1900s, four
million Jats of present-day Pakistan were mainly Muslim by faith and
the nearly six million Jats of present-day India were mostly divided
into two large groups: Hindus concentrated in Haryana and Rajasthan
and Sikhs, concentrated in Punjab.

The Hindu varna system is unclear on Jat status within the caste
system. Some sources state that Jats are regarded as "Kshatriyas"[68]
[69][70] or "degraded Kshatriyas" who, as they did not observe
Brahmanic rites and rituals, had fallen to the status of Sudra.[71]

Most Sikh Jats were converted from Hindu Jats[72][73] so they would
join forces with the Khalsa to fight against the Mughal monarchy.

Social customs

Main article: Social customs of Jat people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_customs_of_Jat_people

It has been suggested that Social customs of Jat people be merged
into this article or section. (Discuss)

Language

Jat people usually speak Punjabi Urdu, Gojri, Dogri, Sindhi, Hindi and
its dialects (Rajasthani, Haryanvi, Malvi). Hindu Jats from Haryana
and Rajasthan mostly speak Haryanvi and Rajasthani specially their
dialects Bangaru or Jatu(literary meaning the language of Jats) and
Bagri language. Sikh and Muslim Jat people from the Punjab mostly
speak Punjabi and its various dialects (such as Maajhi, Malwi, Doabi,
Saraiki, Pothohari, and Jhangochi).

Clan system

See also: Jat clan system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_clan_system

All India Jat Mahasabha Centenary Celebrations 2007, Seen in the image
are Dharmendra, Dara Singh, Kamal PatelThe Jat people have always
organized themselves into hundreds of patrilineage clans, Panchayat
system or Khap. A clan was based on one small gotra or a number of
related gotras under one elected leader whose word was law.[74] The
big Jat clans now are so big that many individuals in them are only
related to each other by individuals that lived typically hundreds of
years ago. Mutual quarrels of any intensity could be settled by orders
of Jat elders. In times of danger, the whole clan rallied under the
banner of the leader. The Jat Khap or Panchayat system is territorial
and highly democratic. A number of Khaps form a Sarva Khap embracing a
full province or state. Negotiations were done at Sarva Khap level.

In addition to the conventional Sarva Khap Panchayat, there are
regional Jat Mahasabhas affiliated to the All India Jat Mahasabha to
organize and safeguard the interests of the community, which held its
meeting at regional and national levels to take stock of their
activities and devise practical ways and means for the amelioration of
the community.[75]

The Jat people clan names are unique in South Asia. However, some of
their clan names do overlap with the Rajputs and Gujjars.[76] List of
Jat Clans have been compiled by many Jat historians like Ompal Singh
Tugania,[77] Bhaleram Beniwal.[78][79] Mahendra Singh Arya and others,
[80] Thakur Deshraj,[81] Dilip Singh Ahlawat,[82] Ram Swarup Joon[83]
etc. The above lists have more than 2700 Jat gotras. Thakur Deshraj,
Ram Swarup Joon and Dilip Singh Ahlawat have mentioned history of some
of Jat gotras. Some websites of Jats have also prepared list of Jat
Gotras with details of history and distriburion.[84]

navanavonmilita

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Apr 11, 2010, 1:53:34 AM4/11/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth

Kunbi

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Castes of India

Maratha Kunbi
Classification Hindu Kshatriya
Religions Hinduism

Language Hindi, Chhattisgarhi, Marathi, Konkani, Gujrati, South Indian
languages and dialects
Populated States Northern India, Western India, Central India, South
India
People from the Kunbi (also called Kurmi) community in India belong to
a sub-caste of the Kshatriya varna.[citation needed] The word kunabi
is a generic term equivalent to farmer in English. According to the
great Indian mythology God Rama had two sons one Luv and other Kush.
Luv's successors came to known as lavyas who settled in Kashmir and
later moved towardsTother parts of the country mentioned below .
Successors of kush came to be known as Kushwahas, who basically
setteled in northern plains of India. Ancient Kurmis (then known as
Patidars) formed governing bodies in Gujarat, Maharastra, Sindh,
Kashmir, The Eastern Afghanistan Plains, Indus River Valley, and parts
of Pakistan in pre-mughal times. They became owners of land, and
issued it for farming in pattas. Owners of pattas were called
Patildars or Patidars >> Patel & Patil. Later, they further sub-
divided into many other sub-castes.

In India, societies like Kshatriyas Maratha, Rajput, Yadav, Gujjar,
Raju, and others possess ruling powers but later due to population
expansion and other causes they also worked or lived as farmers and
formed corresponding societies.

Kshatriyas and agriculture

“ "A Kshatriya who has fallen into distress, may subsist by all these
means..." ”
— Laws of Manu, X:95 [1]

As per ancient Hindu texts, agriculture is permissible to Kshatriyas
under special circumstances [1] in the absence of opportunities in the
military and feudal apparatus of a righteous Aryan king. Indeed, the
service in the army of an unrighteous, or a 'Yavana', or a 'Maleccha',
king was the biggest imaginable anathema for a concentious and
observant vedic kshatriya in ancient India. A vedic kshatriya was not
a mercenary soldier but a defender of faith and righteous order
(dharma).

Culture

Some Hindu-Kunbis perform the Upanayana[citation needed] Samskara as
per their family traditions which is as per the original clan they
follow,though it is not a compulsion & at places not considered right
amongst themselves. In the past Kunbis have larger houses - some were
called WADA, some were GADHI (fortressed complex) and some also had
KEELLA (a fort). Most of the historical evidences are managed and
maintained by National (India) and State (Maharashtra) level
government departments, although there are many families who maintain
their own set of documents or evidences as a mark of family assets.
Large scale Kunbi farmers generally maintain large herds of dairy
cattle and a number of horses.

List of famous Maratha Saints

Saint Tukaram A 17th Century popular poet.
Siddharameshwar Maharaj A guru of Nondualism, a saint of Solapur and
guru of Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ranjith Maharaj.
Nisargadatta Maharaj One of the world famous disciples of
Siddharameshwar Maharaj and author of book I Am That.He has many
international disciples who are famous and preach in USA, Europe &
Australia. Some of his disciples are John Wheeler & Bob Adamson.
Rashtra Saint Tukdoji Maharaj A national saint, musician and social
reformer. He wrote Gramgeeta for rural development.

Maratha Kunabi Society

Kunabi Maratha is Cluster of Royal 96 clans and Peasantry Class of
Maharashtra and also Maratha Royalties Proclaimed themeselves farmer
as they were landlords.Royal 96 clans marry among only Maratha Farmers
i.e.Maratha Kunabi ,not other Kunabi's from non-maratha cast.

Kunbis, also known as Kunbi Marathas, are a Maratha sub-caste residing
primarily in provinces of India such as Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh,
Gujarat, Karnataka etc.

Betul District (Madhya Pradesh) is one of the higher kunbi population
place.

List of other Saints

Shree Saint Gulabrao Maharaj was blind from birth. He preached Vedas
to the Brahmins.
Shree Sant Gadaji Maharaj A saint, visionary leader and social
reformer in 1700. He saved his own village from the mughal occupation
and became famous for his extraordinary leadership and visionary
speeches. Nearly 20 thousand people gather on holy occasions to
remember him.

List of famous Kunbi Marathi Women

Lalita Pawar was a Bollywood actor known as the The Mother of all
mothers-in-law in films. She was born into a rich Yevle family of
Nashik and was married to Raj Prakash Gupta and lived in Pune. She
started her career in silent films in 1928 and acted in more than 500
Hindi and Marathi films.
Smita Patil was a Bollywood actor who was the first Asian cine-star to
have the unique honor of Retrospectives in Paris and La Rochelle, (at
the promptings of no less a film luminary than Director Costa Gavras),
a two-time Best Actress award winner at the National Film Festival
(Bhumika and Chakra) and a Padmashree. She was a keen photographer and
died at the age of 31.
Smt Prabha Rau is now the Governor of Himachal Pradesh and is the
former president of Maharashtra Pradesh Congress Committie. She is a
sports person and has represented Maharashtra in the long jump, high
jump, hurdles, discus throw and running. She is also a musician, and
holds a Masters degree in Politics and Music.
Smt Kumud Pawade was a renowned Sanskrit scholar, author and a
professor. She was born in Nagpur in 1938 into a Mahar family
considered to be untouchable before the 1950s. She married Motiram
Pawade a social worker who was from a Maratha family. She was also the
president of All India Progressive Woman's Organization.
Mrs Ujjwala Raut-Sterry is India's most accomplished supermodel now
settled in the US. She has won awards in both India and
internationally for her performance as a model. Born and brought up in
Mumbai, she is married to British film producer Craig Maxwell Sterry.
She has also been on the cover of Time magazine.
'Miss India Sayali Bhagat', A famous bollywood actress is from Nasik

List of famous Kunbi Men

Yashaskara, King of KashmirDynasties of Ancient Kashmir. After the
Utpala dynasty, a Yashaskara became king. (V 469). He was a great-
grandson of a Viradeva, a Kutumbi (V 469). He was from the kutumbi
group (also known as kurmis of UP and Kunbis of Gujarat/Maharashtra)
and the son of a treasurer of Karkota Shamkaravarman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_of_Ancient_Kashmir#The_Dynasties
Shri Shivajirao Adhalrao Patil His father was a small scale farmer and
Shivajirao as a child used to sell vegetables in Mumbai. At one time
he even struggled to get daily bread. He got his first job as a peon
in Zenith Computers a software company based in Mumbai. With his
company owner's support, he started taking part time classes in
English. This company was a turning point for him and later on he
started his own company Dynalog Limited, that supplies electronics
good to Defense, Education and Industries. Shivajirao's company has
now grown into famous venture well known in India and Internationally.
Shivajirao has won numerous awards for his achievement both at state
and national level. Due to trouble faced him in getting education
during his childhood, he started a school for kids. Besides being a
Industrialist he is a Member of Parliament from Shiv Sena.
Dr Shrikant Jichkar, MP, Member of Rajya Sabha, Cabinet Minister of
Maharashtra holds 20 postgraduate degrees. He has obtained 28 Gold
Medals. Between 1972 and 1990 he wrote 42 University Examinations. He
was also IPS officer and IAS officer. At 25 years of age, he became
the Youngest MLA in India. He was also leading Indian delegations on
several forums including the UNO, UNESCO. He is founder of Kavi
Kulaguru Kalidas (India's firstSanskrit University). He is Managing
Editor of Nagpur Times and Nagpur Patrika and Founding Chairman of
National Institute of Amateur Radio. (The Guinness World Records lists
him as 'Politician with most qualifications'. He was the first Non-
Brahmin to be awarded the Dixit Title)
Sandeep Patil is a cricket player and former coach of the Kenya
Cricket Team that reached World Cup Semi-Finals in 2003. He had a
record for six fours in a cricket over.
Barrister S. K. Wankhede is a former BCCI President and State
Minister. He was married to the late Smt Kusumtai (from a Brahmin
family) who greatly contributed to his career success. Due to his
contribution to Indian cricket a stadium was named after him.
Shri Anant Geete is a Member of Parliament and former Union Minister
of Power. He is involved in power reforms that started during orthodox
BJP Led-NDA central government. He belongs to Konkan Region.
Shri Datta Meghe is Educationists, Member of Parliament, Rajya Sabha.
He runs several educational institutes in Mumbai and Central India.
Dr Atul Gawande is a second generation Harvard professor and doctor,
who is also a columnist in US. He was a student at Stanford and Oxford.
[1]
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/faculty/atul-gawande/
Late Dwarkanath Laxman Mhaskar known as Dadasaheb was the President of
Tillori Kunbi Maratha Samaj (Mumbai). He has worked with his father
Late Laxman Krishnaji Mhaskar in Govt central press, Mumbai when the
freedom movement started, he later gave his resignation and got
involved in to the movement. He was even attached with various school
and colleges, as donor and committee member. He was vice president of
Mumbai Sharirik Shikshan Mandal Headed by Late Appa Samant(Fanas wadi
Koliwadi). Also he had formed Maharashtara Rajya Hu-tu-tu Maha Mandal.
He has arranged many tournaments in Mumbai and Rest of the state. He
had formed Shreerang Co-operative Housing Society Limited, with help
of Late S K Wankhede,(Former State Finance Minister) and Sumati Devi
Dhanavte (M.L.A.)frm Nagpur. This was the biggest Housing Society in
India. He even participated in the separation of Mumbai region from
Sanyukta Maharashtra. He even went to jail during this movement. Govt
of Maharashtra awarded him as Justice of Peace for 35 years. He has
traveled abroad for many social seminar in many countries. He died in
May 88 in Thane. Facts by Anant Dwarkanath Mhaskar and Amar Anant
Mhaskar.
Rajnikanth (Birth Name:Shivaji Rao Gaekwad) also known as Super star
is a famous Indian film actor. He is the second highest paid actor in
Asia after Jackie Chan. He is a follower of Raghavendra Swami.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajnikanth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raghavendra_Swami
Harish Raut (1925–2002) was born in Bordi. He was one of the best
painters and his paintings appear in national galleries, government
offices, museums in India and abroad and on greeting cards. He has won
several state and national awards for his painting. His paintings
mainly focus on rural life in India. His natural skill was identified
and furthered by Government of Maharashtra.

Anil Mahajan Pandagre A Youngest person a famous Socialworkar &
Administer kunbi community webparchayika ...[2] At present he is
active kunbi,s Data collection in India.
http://www.lonarikunbi.in/
Dr. R B Thakare Former adviser to World Bank and Asian Development
Bank. He obtained his PhD from University of California, Berkly. He is
a widely recognized expert in the field of [Agriculture]. He has
number of publications in international journals and is a Board of
Member on various universities and institutes in India. At present he
is active in India solving farmers problems.
Dr. Panjabrao Deshmukh was a famous social reformer, educationists and
freedom fighter in Vidarbha. He was the founder of Shivaji Education
Society at Amravati and was a Union Minister of Agriculture in Pandit
Nehru's government. He completed his Ph.D at University of Cambridge.
He returned to India was involved in reforms and was also associated
with Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjabrao_Deshmukh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhimrao_Ambedkar

Sanjay Raut A famous Shiv Sena member and a journalist by profession.
He is the Editor of Shiv Sena daily news paper Saamna. He is also a
Member of Parliament.
Aditya Raut Youngest person in the world to swim across five
continental channels [3]
Shaheed Major Manishi Pitambare recipient of Kranti Chakra, died in
Kashmir valley while fighting with militants was from Murabad in Thane
District

[edit] Demographics

Historical social Structure in Central India

Kunbis of Maharashtra are known as Marathas as they form the farming
section of Marathas. Kunbis from Maharashtra have a 12 and 1/2 (also
known as Saade Bara) clan system. The 12 clans predominantly consist
of Indo-Aryan races and 1/2 part consists of other clans. Names of
clans are listed below [4]

Dhanoje - Located in Vidarbha region. Mainly farming. Few Dhanoje
kunbi's are very rich in Chandrapur region. Many of them have started
education institutes in vidarbha region. They are mainly into farming
and but with time youth of this caste is now well educated and settled
in other parts of country and in foreign countries. Strong presence in
the politics of Vidarbha region especially Amarawati, Chandrapur,
Yeotmal.
Tirale, most prosperous caste in number of parts of Maharashtra and
now dominant in politics in Vidarbha and Khandesh. (Tirale is the most
ancient of all the sub castes and represents the Rajputs from Therol
from Rajputana)[5][6]
Lonari (Farming,business)
Vandhekars (i.e Deshmukhs) and Jadhav (administration, business,
farming and now politically dominant)
Ahire,
Bawne:located in Bhandara and Nagpur district. Mainly farmer community
and well learned and works in govt. and private firms. Dominant as
population wise in most of the villages in Bhandara and Kuhi tahsil,
Ramtek and Umred tahsil villages.
Vanjari and Dhanoje (money lenders, business and farming)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanjari_(caste)
Lonare, Zade, Beldar, Ghatole, Killedar and Dhakane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beldar
Mana, Kare, Karadi and Khedule and Dait
Khaire and Jungli (tribals involved in farming)
Jadhavs with surnames Sonar, sonare, khapare, dhuldhar, bhurkunde,
Tatte, Bhad, Deshmukh reside mainly in Vidharbha specially in western
regions like Amaravati.
Valte:Located in Vijapur (Duparepada)in Wada Tehsil & Thane
District...Have only one family byt now it is distributed into the 4-5
families at Duparepada,Kudus,Sarshi & supegaon...Mahesh Valte
Bhowad, sud

navanavonmilita

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Apr 14, 2010, 8:39:09 AM4/14/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth

Gotra

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Part of a series on
Hinduism

Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (November 2009)

A gotra is the lineage or clan assigned to a Hindu at birth. In most
cases, the system is patrilineal and the gotra assigned is that of the
person's father. Other terms for it are vansh, vanshaj, bedagu,
purvik, purvajan, pitru. An individual may decide to identify his
lineage by a different gotra, or combination of gotras.

According to strict Hindu tradition, the term gotra is used only for
the lineages of Brahmin, Kshatriya and Vaishya varnas[citation
needed]. Brahminical gotra relates directly to the original seven or
eight rishis of the Vedas[citation needed]. Later, the term gotra was
expanded beyond Brahmin[citation needed].

A gotra must be distinguished from a kula. A kula is a set of people
following similar cultural rituals, often worshiping the same divinity
(the Kula-Devata, god of the clan). Kula does not relate to lineage or
caste. In fact, it is possible to change one's kula, based on one's
faith or Iṣṭa-devatā.

It is common practice in preparation for Hindu marriage to inquire
about the kula-gotra (meaning clan lineage) of the bride and groom
before approving the marriage. In almost all Hindu families, marriage
within the same gotra is prohibited, since people with same gotra are
considered to be siblings. But marriage within the kula is allowed and
even preferred.

Shudras also have gotras, and follow them in marriages[citation
needed]. For example a weaver falls under Markandeya gotra. Markandeya
was known be a Maharishi and had 60 sons. Marriages are held within
Markandeya but never in same family name. So, every weaver falls under
one of these gotra. The family name is given by the Brahmin or Guru's
name[citation needed].

Origin of gotra

In Vedic Sanskrit, the word "gotra" originally meant "cow-pen." [1]
Cows were at the time (which time?) the most valuable possession of a
family group, so with time, the term "gotra" began to refer to the
family group who owned a particular pen of cows[citation needed]. The
term was associated eventually with just the family group and its
lineage.

Gotra is the Sanskrit term for a much older system of tribal
clans[citation needed]. The Sanskrit term "Gotra" was initially used
by the Vedic people [citation needed] for the identification of the
lineages. Generally, these lineages mean patrilineal descent from the
sages or rishis in Brahmins, warriors and administrators in Kshatriyas
and ancestral trademen in Vaisyas[citation needed].

The lineage system, either patrilineal or matrilineal, was followed by
the South Asian people. In present-day Hinduism, Gotra is applied to
all the lineage systems. Many Hindu castes have lineages that do not
follow Vedic classification.

A brahmin, though solely eligible to be regarded as such by virtue of
being born of, at the least, A male brahmin and a female Brahmin, or a
female who is seven parts out of eight Brahmin and in no part a Shudra
or non-dwija lineage (Manu-Smriti)[citation needed], must nevertheless
be reborn by the rite of the thread ceremony at an age earlier than
that permissible to the Kshatriya and Vaisya classes and is
traditionally expected to display learning and intellect befitting a
Brahmin[citation needed]. Those born low could become a Brahmin in
their next life[citation needed] by elevating his learning and conduct
and similarly one who had achieved Brahmanical status could be pushed
to a lower strata if his conduct came to demand such
relegation[citation needed]. A Brahmin must be "Re-born" and that is
why he is called "Dwija- twice born".

The case of sage Vishwamitra is the example. Thus the gotra must have
been of the lineage of the learning one chose rather than the lineage
of one's birth. Rama is stated to be the descendant of Ikshwaku, but
the lineage was broken when Kalmashpada got his son through Niyoga of
Vasishta with Kalmashapad's wife Madayanthi, and not through a
biological liaison. Yet Rama is said to be Ikshwaku's descendant and
not of Vasishta. Some claim of a continuous biological linkage with
the moola purusha [or most significant personality] of the Gothra,
where as it need not be the case. Some times, a Gotra is based on the
Guru for the family or one of the ancestors. Many of the Niyogi
Brahmins have descended from a Niyoga liaison, but not a marital
liaison[citation needed].

Marriages and gotras

In a patrilineal Hindu society (most common), the bride belongs to her
father's gotra before the marriage, and to her husband's gotra after
the marriage. The groom on the other hand only belongs to his father's
gotra throughout his life.

Marriages within the gotra ('sagotra' marriages) are not permitted
under the rule of exogamy in the traditional matrimonial system. The
word 'sagotra' is union the words 'saga' + gotra, where 'saga' means
same or similar. People within the gotra are regarded as kin and
marrying such a person would be thought of as incest. The Tamil words
'sagotharan' (brother) and 'sagothari' (sister) derive their roots
from the word 'sagotra'. In communities where gotra membership passed
from father to children, marriages were allowed between maternal uncle
and niece[2], while such marriages were forbidden in matrilineal
communities, like Malayalis and Tuluvas, where gotra membership was
passed down from the mother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exogamy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayali
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuluva

A much more common characteristic of south Indian Hindu society is
permission for marriage between cross-cousins (children of brother and
sister). Thus, a man is allowed to marry his maternal uncle's daughter
or his paternal aunt's daughter, but is not allowed to marry his
father's brother's daughter. She would be considered a parallel cousin
who is treated as a sister.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-cousin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_cousin

North Indian Hindu society not only follows the rules of gotra for
marriages, but also had many regulations which went beyond the basic
definition of gotra and had a broader definition of incestuousness.[4]
Some communities in North India do not allow marriage with some other
communities on the lines that both the Communities are having
brotherhood.[5]

An acceptable social workaround for sagotra marriages is to perform a
'Dathu' (adoption) of the bride to a family of different gotra
(usually dathu is given to the bride's maternal uncle who obviously
belongs to different gotra by the same rule) and let them perform the
'kanniyadhanam' ('kanni' (virgin) + 'dhanam' (gift)). However, this is
easier said as it would be quite difficult for the bride's father to
watch another man give his daughter's hand away in marriage in his own
presence.

List of gotras

Main article: List of gotras
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gotras

navanavonmilita

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May 16, 2010, 8:56:37 AM5/16/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-2/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-3/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-4/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-5/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-6/

Child marriages solemnised on Akshaya Tritiya
STAFF WRITER 13:39 HRS IST

Bundi (Rajasthan), May 16 (PTI) Several minor boys and girls were
reportedly married on Akshaya Tritiya despite administrative alert and
close vigil by non-government agencies to prevent child marriages in
the state.

The marriages were solemnised secretly in mass marriage ceremonies
organised by Mali, Meena, Gujjar and Nai (barber) communities at
different places in Bundi district.

However, district authorities have denied reports of such incidents
here.

According to sources, about two dozen minors from Mali community were
brought for marriage in early hours on Saturday at Gothera village in
Hindoli block, about 30 kms from here.

Lady Supervisor of Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS)
Jareena Khan in Gothera village confirmed the child marriages in Mali
community, saying "They performed the marriages two days before Akha
Teej on late night of May 14".

http://www.ptinews.com/news/655095_Child-marriages-solemnised-on-Akshaya-Tritiya

Couple defies Khap panchayat's diktat, gets married
STAFF WRITER 20:37 HRS IST

Greater Noida (UP), May 15 (PTI) Defying a death threat from a Khap
Panchayat or self-styled caste council, a couple today got married
under police protection here.

The panchayat had barred Jaivinder, a resident of Chithera village,
from marrying Manisha of Bisnoli village claiming their marriage will
be against local societal norms.

Although the boy and the girl belong to different gotras or subcastes,
the panchayat ruled that as residents of Chithera consider girls
belonging to Bhatti gotra as their sisters, Jaivinder could not marry
Manisha who belongs to Bhatti subcaste. Javinder belongs to Bainsla
gotra.

The panchayat had threatened to kill them if they went ahead with the
marriage.

Jaivinder's wedding procession left Chithera under police protection
for Manisha's house where the marriage was solemnised, police sources
said.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/654633_Couple-defies-Khap-panchayat-s-diktat--gets-married

HP HC orders CBI probe into girl's suicide case
STAFF WRITER 19:36 HRS IST

Shimla, May 15 (PTI) The Himachal Pradesh High Court today ordered a
CBI inquiry into the suicide by a girl here in which a senior IPS
officer has been booked.

A division bench comprising Chief Justice Kurian Joseph and Justice
Deepak Gupta accepted prayer of family members of the girl and
recommended a CBI probe for "fair and impartial" inquiry into the
matter.

The girl Ritu Kalmatia (28) committed suicide in her house here on
March 28 this year after her marriage with the son of IG (law and
order) Pardeep Sarpal was turned down by the officer.

His son Sidarth Sarpal is a judicial officer in the state and had an
affair with her for past 15 years.

On the complaint of father of the girl, an FIR was lodged with
Boileaganj police station against the IG, his wife and son.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/654522_HP-HC-orders-CBI-probe-into-girl-s-suicide-case

Khap panchayats an 'illness' to society:Sharad Yadav
STAFF WRITER 16:55 HRS IST

New Delhi, May 15 (PTI) Criticising Congress MP Naveen Jindal's recent
statement on 'Khap' Panchayats, JD(U) chief Sharad Yadav today said
that the institution had no sanctity and was an "illness".

"I criticise Naveen Jindal's statement in support of Khap Panchayats.
Such institutions suppress fundamental rights of every citizen to
marry a person of his or her own choice," Yadav told reporters here.

He further said "Khap panchayats are nothing but an illness to
society".

http://www.ptinews.com/news/654292_Khap-panchayats-an--illness--to-society-Sharad-Yadav

Guj stands 5th in atrocity cases against SCs: Buta
STAFF WRITER 22:0 HRS IST

Gandhinagar, May 14 (PTI) Gujarat stands fifth in atrocities against
scheduled castes while UP, Madhya Pradesh, Bihar and Rajasthan are
ahead of the state, Chairman of National Commission for Scheduled
Castes said today.

"In Gujarat, SCs account for 7.5 per cent of population and given this
proportion, the number of atrocity cases is considered very high,"
Buta Singh, who is on a visit here, said.

1106 atrocity cases were registered in 2003 while in 2009 the number
was marginally down at 1082, he added.

"In Gujarat, conviction rate is very low in atrocity cases with only
six per cent cases ending in conviction in 2009," he said.

Singh also held a meeting with the state government officials to
review the implementation of Atrocity Act and discussed issues
pertaining to the scheduled castes in the state.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/653689_Guj-stands-5th-in-atrocity-cases-against-SCs--Buta

BJP for consensus among political parties on Khaps
STAFF WRITER 17:2 HRS IST

Chandigarh, May 13 (PTI) Amid the raging debate over the authority of
Khap panchayats, BJP today chose to tread cautiously on the issue,
favouring a consensus among political parties to deal with the self-
styled caste councils.

"I think consensus among parties on how to deal with the issue would
be better. It would be better if there is unanimity in dealing with
such delicate issues," BJP chief Nitin Gadkari told reporters here.

His remarks came when asked about his party's stand on various Khaps
demanding amendments in the Hindu Marriage Act to ban same sub-caste
(gotra) marriages.

When reminded that some leaders including Congress MP Navin Jindal and
INLD chief Om Prakash Chautala had already come out in support of the
Khaps, he said in a healthy society it is better to have a consesus to
tackle delicate issues like this.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/651340_BJP-for-consensus-among-political-parties-on-Khaps

Rival gujjar factions threaten agitation from June 13
STAFF WRITER 19:14 HRS IST

Jaipur, May 13 (PTI) Rejecting the one per cent additional quota
extended by Rajasthan government to the community, a rebel Gujjar
faction today threatened to launch an agitation from June 13 if their
demand of five per cent reservation was not met by next month.

Addressing a Mahapanchayat, a grand council meeting, at Sikandra town
of Dausa district, chief patron of All India Gujjar Aarakshan Sangarsh
Samiti Ramvir Singh Bidhuri slammed Gujjar leader Kirorisingh Bainsla
for the agreement arrived with the state government.

"Gujjars have openly rejected the accord which is a mere eyewash," he
said and alleged that Bainsala had withdrawn the agitation to secure a
Rajya Sabha ticket for his daughter.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/651839_Rival-gujjar-factions-threaten-agitation-from-June-13

cogitoergosum

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May 19, 2010, 11:42:14 AM5/19/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-2/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-3/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-4/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-5/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-6/

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-7/

In India caste matters not merit
Arpita Mukherjee | Apr 26 2008

Five thousand years ago when the Aryans came to India and divided the
Indian society on the basis of four castes – the Brahmin, Kshatrya,
Vaishya and Sudra, caste was determined according to the occupation of
the person. There are a number of stories in the Hindu scriptures
where a person born to parents of a lower caste had moved up in the
caste ladder with his work. The Kshatrya Vishwamitra became a Brahmin
and Vyas the author of Mahabharata became a sage despite being born to
a mother who came from the fisher folk community. It was in the later
Vedic Age that caste became the birth right of a person. Inter-caste
marriages however continued giving rise to thousands of sub-castes.
With the passage of time, caste system became rigid and atrocities on
the lower castes and untouchability became rampant in the Hindu
society. India on the eve of Independence in 1947 was a country that
was not only economically backward but had hundreds of divisions in
the society.
To lift the untouchables or the Dalits from their deplorable position
steeped in illiteracy and poverty the Indian Constitution granted 22
percent quota in government jobs and government educational
institutions to the Dalits along with the tribals. However, Dr B.R.
Ambedkar, the first Indian Law Minister who was a champion of the
Dalit rights, did not consider reservations in jobs as a panacea for
all the social woes. After a lot of persuasion, Ambedkar agreed to
include the quota system in the Constitution but wanted it to be
scraped after 10 years. However, the compulsion of electoral politics
had kept on extending quotas during Constitutional amendments that
take place every 10 years.

The quota system has extended in the recent decades including a new
category – the Other Backward Castes (OBC) within its fold. The
implementation of the Mandal Commission recommendations that gave the
OBC 27 percent reservation in government jobs created a lot of fury
among the Indian youths belonging to the upper castes in the 90s. In a
recent judgment, the Supreme Court of India upheld the law to extend
OBC reservations in top institutions of higher learning. Total
reservation in educational institutions has touched 49.5 percent.
Talent has been badly hit by this decision. The compulsion of
electoral politics had made all political parties in India, despite
their ideological differences, support the prevalence of quota system.
In fact, the total votes of the people covered by the quota system is
greater than the upper caste votes.

If we take a closer look at the reason of backwardness in modern India
then we see that it has more to do with poverty and less with the
caste structure. In the north Indian states, the Dalits are largely
victims of atrocities in the hands of people belonging to the
politically powerful OBCs. The lower castes now have their own leaders
who have become their Messiah. Miss Mayawati and Ram Vilas Paswan have
amassed huge wealth while consolidating their hold as the leaders of
the Dalits. A vested interest group has sprung up among the backward
classes communities who despite their strong financial and political
position continue to enjoy the fruits of quota system. The Supreme
Court had excluded the creamy layer of the OBC from the quota system
but for unknown reasons had remained mute on the creamy layers among
the Dalits and the tribals.

The next step of the caste politics in India is to carry it to the
private sector.

Source:Gulf News
Image226489

Tags: India, Mandal Commission, Reservation, Caste System, Global

Comments

Sameer Kumar | Apr 27 2008
It is interesting to note that Ambedkar wanted the reservation
scrapped after the first 10 years yet political constraints made sure
that they continued. If that is indeed true then I just do not
understand what constraints INC had in 1957 as they were unchallenged
and almost the only single party in the country well until 1970. They
did not need any votes at that point based on caste politics. I could
be wrong, but this is a bit perplexing.

But it is very true that talent is basically suffering in modern India
with these reservations. This becomes all the more tougher when you
are trying to gain a seat in top institutes of higher education. I
just hope that this nonsense never touches the private sector

Desh | Apr 27 2008
Never wanted to be critical of the likes of Ambedkar ji, the script
writer of our constitution, but...... Reservation is gaping large and
wide upon the intelligentsia of modern India. Merit has become a
courtesan to be molested time and again in the hands of quota-holders.
Times have changed, hence a sense of urgency to eliminate reservation
is so very imminent.

Jayaprashanth | Apr 27 2008
i couldn’t agree more with that. Though Mr Ambedkar made laws that
were relevant then, they are unfortunately not so in the present day.
Meritocracy has taken a back seat with politicians ever eager to play
the caste card to garner more support. Though the recent supreme court
decision has veered towards a reservation system based on economic
lines, only time will tell how effectively this ruling is
implemented.

Grace Calderon | Apr 27 2008
Segregation is something that will implode, over time. Anything
essentially unnecessary shall be its own undoing.

History will dilute it. Although history fundamentally implies a
certain(sometimes unbearable)length of time, you can’t stop osmosis.

Reply to this comment
Brij Lal Gupta | Apr 27 2008

This is true that cast system made by aryans in our society. i.e.
brahmin kshatrya vaishya & sudra, its divided our society and became
the untouchability. Now the Government of india made some new caste
i.e. general, S.C., S.T., O.B.C., BC and others for the segregated to
the country

Prashobh Karunakaran | Mar 20 2010

As the human beings evolved, they segregated into the four castes as
was advised by the highly evolved sages. All the castes are equal and
necessary part of one body. Just as the legs are as important to the
functioning of a body as the head, the caste system segregates people
by employment:

1) The head represent the Brahmins, the spiritual educators or
seekers.
2) The shoulders represent the Kshatriya, needed for protection of the
community.
3) The stomach represent the Vaisya, the entrepreneurs and business
executives.
4) The legs represent the Sudras, the instruction followers who go
through life obeying

instructions.

Thus the four castes are the limbs of one body of society. The
justification for the caste system is similar to the justification for
democracy, in that, it has problems but it is better than the
alternative. In a democracy, certain segments of populations go to
poverty and others become filthy rich, and there is associated
corruption. The right to fail and face the consequences, so as to
learn, is its greatest advantage, making it much better than the
alternative. Similarly, the power abuse of one caste over the others
will happen from time to time. Sometimes it may even get bad enough
for God himself to correct it, but the caste system is the best way to
ensure excellence is maintained in the various professions. It is just
like Darwin’s theory of evolution, where animals get specialized in
acquiring a certain set of food. In this case, humans get specialized
in their job functions so that they excel in it over time, therefore
increasing their spiritual level. God had to incarnate as Parashurama
to solve one of these cases of imbalance of power among the castes.
The Kshatriyas had become too powerful and were abusing the other
castes. The logic behind the caste system can be visualized in the
present scenario of any country. Every country, whatever the stages of
progress, must have three requisites:

1) Material resources - provided for by:

i) The workforce who follow instruction
ii) The entrepreneurs who give the instructions

2) Protective power - provided for by the Security personnel

3) A proper education system - provided for by the spiritually
inclined people.
The peace and prosperity of the world depends on the work of these
four classes of people. They form the legs of a table. Even if one leg
is weak, the other three cannot support the table. When production is
plentiful, it has to be guarded against loot and plunder. When
soldiers and security men become powerful, they turn into a menace to
the country, while production declines. When production and protection
are adequate, if the educational system takes a wrong track, the
country is weakened. The development of material resources and the
defense of the country ultimately depend on the education that is
imparted. The table is not only “four legs”! How can one use a table
of four legs? There should be a plank of love that is to say, love for
the country. A country does not mean a specified area on the map, the
soil. It means the human community inhabiting the territory. And
‘love’ means the sense of inter-relationships and involvement of the
individuals within that community. Without all the five aspects, there
will be a breakdown in society. For example, today the degree of love
is absent in many highly educated and highly placed persons. As a
result, the process of education too is suffering from misuse and the
billions of dollars set aside for education goes to waste. Since
education affects the other three sections, even the money spent on
instruction-followers, entrepreneurs, and protectors does not yield
the full fruit. Each caste is not supposed to be inferior to another.
The superiority and inferiority of castes developed in the current day
India is due to the weakened plank of love. There are various ages
when different castes seem prominent or prosperous on earth. Humans
who were teachers or spiritual seekers (Brahmins) since ancient times
will have some mental and physical characteristics, which can be
inherited by their children. This inheritance could be biological or
via education passed from parents to children. In the very ancient
times, Brahmins with their mantras seemed to have most of the power.
They commanded the most respect because they could get anything people
wanted through their mantras; rain, good crop yields, and weapons.
Even the movements of materials for the construction of buildings
depended upon their mantras. Great sages like sage Satyavarta, sage
Durvasa and sage Agastya and others were like the leaders of
civilizations the world over. Humans, who were fighting (Kshatriyas)
since millions of years ago will have developed strengths in certain
areas of their bodies and have mental skills to dodge enemy attacks
and to kill when necessary. These abilities can be passed down
biologically or through education within families over the ages. The
Kshatriyas became the most powerful leaders of society during the next
age, with their fighting skills and weapons. During these times, kings
like Alexander, King Arthur, Ashoka, Ghengis Khan and numerous others
became respected and powerful leaders of society. If entrepreneurial
producers (Vaisas), which include most professions of today (engineer,
doctors, artisans, businessmen and farmers) descended from ancestors
who were entrepreneurs since millions of years ago, they will have the
correct skills as negotiators, who constantly weigh the profit
potential. In recent times, success in business made people and
countries great. Vaisyas have become the most prominent people today.
People today respect business leaders like Thomas Edison, Rockefeller,
Bill Gates, Micheal Dell and Jack Welch, for what they have
accomplished. The instruction-following producers (Sudras – current
day factory operators and clerks are in this category) whose ancestors
were following instructions will be able to handle the orders given by
others. When computers take over most jobs, it will be the Sudras, who
willingly follow instructions of computers the best, who will have the
most power. They will be the ones, who can get things done for the
rest of the human population. Using their instruction-following
skills, they will be the most respected people because they will get
people things from computer controlled farms, factories and even
construction (food, clothing and shelter). Other people will have to
wait on these instruction-followers for their livelihood. In the
opinion of this author, India was conquered for a thousand years by
foreigners (firstly by the Muslims and then the Christians), so that
she can finally overcome this fault of the different castes
disrespecting each other. The different castes were supposed to be
equal parts of one body but with different jobs. Would a person not
allow his head (Brahmin) to touch his feet (Sudra or instruction
follower)? Would a person not allow his feet (Sudra) to touch his
shoulders/hands (Kshatriya or warrior group)? Or would a person not
allow his hands to touch his stomach (Viasya or producer group)?
Karunakaran, Prashobh. The History of Earth The Indian Version.
Bloomington: Authorhouse, 2010.

http://www.indiadaily.org/entry/in-india-caste-matters-not-merit/#comment-649380

10 million Prostitutes in India!
Puja | Jun 29 2006

Prostitution is one of the oldest industries in the world, existing in
almost every society but still Prostitution is considered illegal in
many countries - India is one of them.

However, this does not mean by any way that it does not exist here.

The shocking factor reveled by daily India is that there are four
million prostitutes in India and the number will probably increase to
10 million in few years’ span.

About 35 percent of prostitutes in India are forcibly put into this
trade and are below 18 years of age. Most disgusting thing is that
most of the girls in this profession are between 12 and 15 years of
age.

Still we drum that Prostitution is illegal in India whereas realty is
that it’s really hard to find one single area in India where this
profession is not prevailing.25796

Tags: Prostitues, 4 million, Sex trade, Global, India

Comments

Arvind | Jul 1 2006
Will legalising this trade give the women their rights ?

Arvind | Aug 23 2006
Has anybody calculated the number of pimps ? Just imagine this
industry is a source of livlihood to so many people and a source of
entertainment to an equally grat number. If these prostitutes did not
exist so many families and children would go to sleep hungry and so
many men would go home angry where they would either trouble their
already harrassed wives or they would go and rape some innocent
girls.

Sagar | Oct 9 2006
hiiiiiiiiii
i want a p number of a rand in ajmer

Faheem | Apr 26 2010
Most of the prostitute are the only bread-winners for their families
and have no other source of income.If same-sex marriage is legal in
India then why not the oldest profession of the world?Granting legal
status to the profession will help the Indian government in generating
revenues and also in promoting safe-sex practices.

http://www.indiadaily.org/entry/10-million-prostitutes-in-india/#comment-652607

India's secular roots are deep
Balbhadra Rana | Mar 20 2008

We don’t need the U.N. freedom of religion investigator, Asma
Jahangir, to tell us that religious strife is a perennial problem for
India. Coming from Jahangir, a Pakistan national, robs some of the
gravity of the statement. Pakistan’s record on religious rights is
nothing special to write home about. It has been a blatantly Islamic
nation since its birth.
But the warning that Jahangir has given cannot be wished away. Hindu-
Muslim riots have been a recurring feature even before partition. The
rule of the strictly secular Nehru and Indira Gandhi had put somewhat
a lid on the phenomenon. Communal incidents also did occur during this
period, but timely police action had prevented a larger conflagration.
But the rise of the Hindutva parties and the organization in the late
1980s has stoked the flames again. The weak governmental stand on the
Shah Bano case only strengthened these forces.

The ultimate threat to Indian secularism arose in the shape of
Narendra Modi. His blatantly majority-biased ideology and success in
projecting an image of clean and strong governance has found many
takers not only in Gujarat, but all over the country.

The problem has been partly because the Indian Muslim community has
not been able to bring itself instep with the Hindus, partly because
of its poor leadership and partly because of confusion of identity.

The problem of communalism has spread to conflict between the hardline
Hindu elements and the Christian missionaries. Just a few months back
there was much unrest in Orissa.

Whatever the cynics and doomsayers may say about the secularism in
India, one thing is certain - it has withstood the test of time. Its
roots are deep, being watered by greats like Gandhi and Nehru. Also
the tradition of tolerance and peaceful co-existence with all is one
of the basic tenets of Hinduism. Many say India is secular because
India is largely Hindu. This belief is true to a large extent.

Reuters202979

Tags: India, Secularism, Global

Comments

Jayaprashanth | Mar 20 2008
Ofcourse our great country, India has withstood the test of time and
has managed to stay secular against all odds but yet again, religious
fundamentalists are trying to create animosites between people of
different communities and the U.N study is a just a warning to
restrain these fundamental forces. I agree with you on almost all your
views but not with the ones in the last paragraph. I beleive India’s
secularism is not only due to the Hindu community, but also due to the
other religions that make India tick.

Gibson | Mar 21 2008
Absolutely disagreed with you on your writing - ‘The ultimate threat
to Indian secularism arose in the shape of Narendra Modi.’ Are you a
Congress worker or Sonia-Rahul Loyalist? Do you know what does
secularism mean or believe in blindly follow the definitions and
examples of secularism often given by Congress, Samajwadi Party,
RJD...

Arsalan | Mar 21 2008
INdia secular?? It is the funniest thing I have ever heard in my life.
Its like reading the words ‘honest’ and ‘Indian politician’ in the
same sentence. If you want to say India as secular you can surely say
dog is as strong as elephant.

If you say a young India is different from the India of 1950 but I
can’t accept the country has groomed itself as a secular state.

Brajesh | Mar 21 2008
Modi...threat to secularism? Then You should call Sonia Gandhi, Lalu
Prasad, Mulayam Singh, Abu Azami as communal leaders because they can
do anything in the name of welfare of Muslims in India. Don’t call the
most popular CM of India as threat to secularism in India.

Sweta | Mar 21 2008
@ Balbhadra...I request you to define the word ‘Indian secularism’ and
the incidents done by Narendra Modi who made him as the ultimate
threat to Indian secularism. I hope I can expect a balanced view from
writer like you.

Prasad | Mar 21 2008
India was not a secular state till 1976. The people who contributed in
drafting the constitution was not in favor to make India a secular
state so, the word ‘Secular’ was missed from 1950 to 1976, when the
word ’secular’ was inducted through 42nd amendment in 1976. Despite
the communal clash in pre-independence and post-independence days the
killing of Mahatma Gandhi by an fanatic Hindu ideologue, Indian
leaders didn’t think to made India a secular country. Can you name
them as threat to India’s religious unity?

Ketul | Mar 21 2008
Minorities have their own personal law boards and they rate their
religious writings over the constitution of India and the government
can do nothing in this matter. If Modi practice such things you run to
call him communal but anyone from minority does it, you call it
religious freedom. What kind secularism is this? India is not secular
but pseudo-secular country. I am sorry to say this as Indian but this
is true...

Faheem | Mar 21 2008
Secularism in India is not able to stop communal riots in past three
decades. Since 1947, thousands of communal riots took place across
India and millions of Muslims were killed. Hindu religious leaders say
that India is for Hindus only. For us, secular India is a big joke.
Leaders in India talk about secularism to hide their hatred for
Muslims and other minorities. Modi is just an example.

Shahneela | Mar 21 2008
2002 Gujarat riot was the ugly face of secularism in India. The weekly
News Week of USA published the article written as - ‘The Hindu
extremists fueled the bloody riots in Gujarat.’Are you talking about
this secularism?

Ketul | Mar 21 2008
We Indians can’t think on lines separate from the thinking of caste
and religion even after 32 years of secularism in India. We still
believe in caste, religion and color. We cannot say our country
secular because there is lot to learn.

Maruf | Mar 21 2008
India has failed to defined the country as secular because it couldn’t
protect the lives and property of the thousands of minorities across
the country. Muslims alone are not the victim but Shikhs and Dalits
are also victims of Hindu extremists. 1984 Sikh riots and and 2002
Gujarat riots are just examples, lot more stories are hidden.

Arjun | Mar 21 2008
It is a matter of shame that we Indians are forced to have identities
related with our caste, religion and other imaginary things. Because
of this we really don’t see each other as Indians but as Hindu ,
Muslims, SC, etc.

I can only hope that Indians stop being such narrow-minded and start
making their identity than adopting it.

Anil | Mar 21 2008
Regrettably, we Indians and Pakistanis consciously fail to shed our
inhibitions. This peculiar phenomenon is reflected in the post and the
comments on it. Notwithstanding aberrations, such as post-Godhara
communal riots in Gujarat, which have been unequivocally condemned by
the majority of Indians, steeped in secular traditions for centuries,
India, by and large remains a democratic country where secularism is a
part of the constitution. The plural traditions are the part of her
history. Deplorable is the ’secular travesty’, being practised by the
ruling class at present in India, as has been exposed in the case of
Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreen who has been hounded out of India.

Sumit | Mar 21 2008
Who on the earth is saying India is not secular country? I can bet
that No country actually take care of the minorities living on the
soil better than India. In which country, a minority get top most
chair in the governance? It happens in India only where minorities
have the enough space.

Sumit | Mar 21 2008
AND I wonder how Indians are refusing to call their own country a
secular country? This is matter of real shame...Muslims are more safe
in India than Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Sumit | Mar 21 2008
India is secular by nature but the Indian politicians have divided the
country on religions. Leave the political leaders/Mullahs behind and
refuse their say in religious matter and then see the emergence of new
secular India...

Suryasnata | Mar 21 2008
Taslima Nasreen was first thrown out of West Bengal by CPM government
and then out of the country by the so-called champion of secularism
UPA government. Is this the secularism we are talking about? I ashamed
to call my country a secular one.

Ankita | Mar 21 2008
I think we Indians are born and told we are Hindus or Muslims or
whatever. Most of us follow the religion what our forefathers follow
without giving any thought on religious beliefs. In India everyone
enjoys freedom of religion because it is officially allowed.
Secularism in India is an idea, not a rule.

Somya | Mar 21 2008
I fail to agree as much I’d like to try. No matter how your upbringing
is or whatever religion you belong to, secularism is not about not
knowing what religion do you belong to, it is about accepting others.
In India that is done in plenty, sure there are more movies about us
doing otherwise and more media attention to the riots, but if media
were to ever cover the enormous numbers in which hindus eat sewai on
Eid and muslims celebrating diwali, the 22 reams of newspaper will not
be enough. It is here that I would love for the media to create a more
realistic picture of India, rather than concentrating on just what is
so terribly wrong with India they should for a change bring out a more
positive side, which believe me is abundant.

Maynard | Mar 21 2008
The issue of secularism in India is a matter of accepting diversity
and co-existence.

Differences among people whether you are Indian or you are coming from
another nation are always debatable.

Our upbringing will always dictate what we believe in. But if we will
only open our eyes and hearts toward the reality of existing variation
of cultural identity, whether you are a Hindu, Muslim or Christian you
will try to understand each other’s beliefs and traditions.

Without respect for each other comes the thousands of misgivings and
conflicts.

One group will always contest its dominance over the other. So expect
more wars and riots in the generations to come if such
misunderstandings are not given a resolution.

Sweta | Mar 21 2008
Secularism has different meaning and implications in India and in
western countries have different implications. In western countries,
it has been used in Western countries in the sense of atheism. India
is the country where religion takes the central place in the life of
the people. India’s age-old philosophy’ sarva dharma samabhava’ which
has the meaning - equal respect for all religions. How many of us are
practicing it?

Chintan | Mar 21 2008
We have to blame Hindus and Muslims equally even in the case Muslims
mostly become victims of riots. However, they must be blamed equally
if people blame Hindus to be more secular than its actual meaning.

Arefa | Mar 21 2008
The demolition of the disputed structure in Ayodhya shocked the
country and, if it was properly handled and controlled, the situation
could have been used to control the growing communalism in India as
the the rising Hindu communalism was controlled after Gandhi’s killing
in 1948.

Darrin | Mar 21 2008
No one can stop Obama, Hillary and Bill would see another downfall in
US politics just before the beginning of actual race for the
presidency. Obama is enjoying great support in US and the world is
watching Obama show.

Somya | Mar 22 2008
If you are looking for resolution then you are only wishing for moons
and stars, when two people in a marriage and very much in love can
never resolve their differences and over the course of a lifetime
fight innumerable times, then how can you possibly expect two sects of
human beings ever getting along without any hassles? Such riots will
continue to happen as perfect harmony in such a case is impossible,
their basic differences being the reason for it.. however, the
assurance that I have is that people are coming off age and more
important issues will replace these. However much they may fight, this
will only strengthen the moral and secular fabric of the country, call
me mad, but this has been true over the years and it will remain so..
longer than you can think of right now.

Atul | Mar 22 2008
If India is a secular country it must reveal itself to the world at
large. It is a country simmering on political violence. The monster of
violence could be ignited anywhere, anytime in the country. Staines, a
Christian missionary who devoted his entire life for the downtrodden
sick lepers, sacrificed his life at the altar of religious
fanaticism.

The minorities must be given their due in society, high positions in
the judiciary, legislature and the executive. Provisions must be made
so that they are educated. Please, someone must set the ball rolling.

Justice related matters must be taken up in the fast track courts and
where we have seen that the state politicians are involved in
hampering the judicial system, the matter should be taken beyond the
jurisdiction of the state.

The Human Rights Commission should have a crucial role to play in this
regard. The recommendations of the Selchar Committee should be made
known to the minorities at large.

The crucial predicament which seems to bother us at present is the
conflict in the society between the haves and the have nots’. The
politicians want to sell their ideas based on communal sentiments by
relegating the hard-working people in the society to darkness. Such an
idea can strike anywhere in the country; as off late was seen in
Maharashtra.

http://www.indiadaily.org/entry/indias-secular-roots-are-deep/

cogitoergosum

unread,

May 20, 2010, 2:57:32 PM5/20/10

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-8/

Volume 27 - Issue 11 :: May. 22-Jun. 04, 2010
INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE
from the publishers of THE HINDU

SOCIAL ISSUES

Outside the law
T.K. RAJALAKSHMI

Khap panchayats want the Hindu Marriage Act amended to prevent same-
gotra marriages.

SHANKER CHAKRAVARTY

Naveen Jindal. Underpressure, the young Congress Member of Parliament
from Kurukshetra made certain pronouncements that indirectly supported
the demands of the khap panchayats, but the party has described his
opinions as personal.

ON May 9, Naveen Jindal, the young and highly educated Member of
Parliament from Kurukshetra in Haryana, was in a dilemma over having
to take a stand on the issue of same- gotra marriages after khap
panchayats, or caste councils, threatened to lay siege to his
residence. The next day, in order to avoid an impending political
embarrassment, he attended a meeting of the sarva khap panchayat at
Kaithal district as if to extend support to their demands. That
ruffled a few feathers.

Of late, khap panchayats have been demanding an amendment to certain
sections of the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955, in order to prohibit same-
gotra marriages. The immediate context is the March 30 verdict in the
sensational two-and-a-half-year-old Manoj-Babli murder case in which a
Karnal court awarded the death sentence to five persons. The court
also sentenced to life imprisonment two others, one of whom was a khap
panchayat leader of the Barwala gotra. Manoj and Babli, both Jats, had
apparently violated the norms of village and gotra exogamy and were
brutally done to death. A dominant khap in the area had ordered that
the couple be killed.

Ever since the judgment, khap panchayats have been on the offensive,
perhaps fearing similar verdicts in other cases of honour killing. On
April 13, representatives of over 20 khaps met at Kurukshetra and
demanded a ban on same- gotra marriages.

Section 29 of the Hindu Marriage Act validates same- gotra marriages.
The section, titled “Savings”, says that “a marriage solemnised
between Hindus before the commencement of this Act, which is otherwise
valid, shall not be deemed to be invalid or ever to have been invalid
by reason only of the fact that the parties thereto belonged to the
same gotra or pravara or belonged to different religions, castes or
subdivisions of the same caste”. Though the Act lists degrees of
prohibited relationships, it accepts that under customary law certain
marriages are valid. For instance, in certain parts of South India,
marriages between cousins (children of a brother and sister) and
between a man and his sister's daughter are common and valid by
custom.

Also, recognising the plurality of customs in the country, Section 5
(Sub-section 4) of the Act says that a marriage between two Hindus can
be solemnised if the parties are not sapindas (meaning, of the same
body) of each other, unless the custom or usage governing each of them
permits of a marriage between the two. The sapinda relationship with
reference to any person extends as far as the third generation in the
line of ascent through the mother and fifth in the line of ascent
through the father. Khap panchayats want the Act to be amended to
disallow same- gotra marriages and it is in this context that they met
their elected representative.

A cornered Jindal, in a letter to the khap representatives,
acknowledged the existence of khap panchayats since the time of rulers
such as Asoka and Harshavardhana and said they had always given a “new
direction” to society. He declared his support to them by saying that
the panchayats had been rendering yeoman service to society by
resolving people's problems even before the present-day legal system
came into existence. As if to balance his unqualified support of their
undemocratic diktats, he urged them to take up issues such as female
foeticide and dowry.

The young MP made certain pronouncements that indirectly supported the
actions of such panchayats. What is shocking in the entire episode is
that while khap panchayats have been known to impose their cruel writ
on young couples going for inter-caste, inter- gotra or even inter-
religious marriages, enforce social and economic boycotts and
humiliate families – more so if they happened to be poor as well –
this was the first time that an elected representative was bulldozed
into taking a position on same- gotra marriages.

Significantly, no one in the Congress party to which Jindal belongs
condemned or protested when the khap panchayats threatened to lay
siege to his house. It was as if Jindal had to fight his own battle.

However, Chief Minister Bhupinder Singh Hooda broke his silence a few
days later, clarifying that khaps would not be allowed to take the law
into their own hands. But he remained non-committal on the issue of
same- gotra marriages.

The central leadership of the Congress took a more radical view of the
matter and broke its silence when confronted with Jindal's stance. It
claimed that his statements were an “expression of opinion by an
honourable Member of Parliament” and that there was no change in the
party's stand on the matter, which, according to party spokesperson
Abhishek Manu Singhvi, was that “no customary law or practice can be
excused or condoned in any manner if it involves killing of any kind
in the name of honour, tradition or heritage”.

AKHILESH KUMAR

A KHAP MAHA panchayat discussion on issues relating to same-gotra
marriages in progress at Kurukshetra on April 13. It was attended by
hundreds of representatives of khaps from Haryana, Rajasthan and
western Uttar Pradesh.

The Union Law Ministry has refrained from taking a head-on position
regarding the banning of khap panchayats. But, in what seems to a
progressive move, in line with what women's organisations have been
demanding for long, the Ministry appears to be seriously contemplating
to do away with the 30-day notice period required to register
marriages, including inter-caste, inter-community and inter-religious
ones, solemnised under the Special Marriage Act, 1954.

The one-month time was often used to track down and harass couples.
Union Law Minister M. Veerappa Moily has overruled the question of
making any change to the Hindu Marriage Act, and indicated that a
strong deterrent against khaps issuing death diktats would be set in
place. However, khap panchayats have been aggressive in their demand
to amend the Act. The representatives of 20 khaps who met at
Kurukshetra on April 13 challenged the Karnal court judgment and
declared that they would collect money on behalf of those who had been
sentenced to death and life imprisonment.

Observers feel that the forthcoming panchayat and municipal elections
are one reason for the sudden caste-based mobilisation. On May 2, khap
panchayats, in a meeting held at Pai in Kaithal district, gave all
elected representatives in the State a month's notice to support their
demand.

On May 4, Satbir Chahal, the organiser of the Akhil Bharatiya Jat
Swabhimaan Sangathan and the Sarvajatiya Committee (all-caste
committee), said that if the demand to amend the Act was not met,
tough decisions would be taken at the all-caste panchayat meeting at
Jind on May 23. He also announced that the panchayat would not allow
the hanging of those who had been sentenced to death in the Manoj-
Babli case. According to newspaper reports, representatives from 84
khaps attended the meeting.

The organisation also expressed annoyance with the Congress leadership
for labelling Jindal's views as personal. It has asked the Congress to
clarify its position on same- gotra marriages.

Not surprisingly, former Chief Minister and Indian National Lok Dal
leader Om Prakash Chautala has taken up the issue. He not only
supported the demand for amendments to the Hindu Marriage Act but
opined that such marriages were not right “medically or
scientifically”. His stand is surprising as his own village, Chautala,
has witnessed such marriages.

Om Prakash Chautala also said that he would bring up a proposal in the
Assembly regarding the same. He has found an ally in Congress Rajya
Sabha member Shadilal Batra, who has supported the demand for an
amendment to the Act.

That leaders of the two mainstream parties in the State have taken a
stand favouring khap panchayats is a matter of concern. This will have
repercussions in neighbouring States such as Rajasthan and Punjab and
in western Uttar Pradesh, where Jats as a caste group are dominant.

“It is ridiculous. If couples in love are willing to give up their
lives to get married, they will find ways of marrying one way or the
other, including outside the Hindu Marriage Act. I don't know what
these groups and political parties are trying to prove,” said Inderjit
Singh, State secretary of the Communist Party of India (Marxist),
adding that the current trajectory of caste identity politics was
worrisome.

Parallel system

It maybe recalled that soon after the infamous Mirchpur incident on
April 21, where 18 Dalit homes were torched and a physically
challenged girl and her father killed, khaps rallied in support of
those arrested in the arson. Many quarters view with concern the
attempt to create a parallel law and order system that goes beyond
honour killings.

“After a long history of struggles, the Special Marriage Act was
amended to allow for inter-caste, inter-religious and inter-community
marriages. Under the Hindu Marriage Act too, the consent of a person
to get married became essential and gotra marriages were not included
within the degrees of relationships that were prohibited. It was
recognised that a gotra involved a large number of people – their
numbers running into lakhs – who were not necessarily direct or
indirect relations of each other. Section 29 of the Act specifically
provided that marriages between persons of the same gotra or pravara
would not be invalidated,” said Kirti Singh, senior lawyer in the
Supreme Court of India.

Formerly a member of the Law Commission of India, Kirti Singh said
that the issues at stake included the rights of young people to get
married according to their choice and to decide when they should get
married. Khaps, she said, wanted the Act amended in order to justify
their violent acts against young couples in the name of protecting
custom and tradition.

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20100604271111800.htm

Volume 27 - Issue 11 :: May. 22-Jun. 04, 2010
INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE
from the publishers of THE HINDU

SOCIAL ISSUES

Deeper malaise
R.V. MOORTHY

IIMC alumni and friends of journalist Nirupama Pathak participating in
a candlelight march demanding justice for her, at Jantar Mantar in New
Delhi on May 8.

IN a case of suspected honour killing, Nirupama Pathak, a 22-year-old
journalist employed with a prominent English daily, was found dead on
April 29 at her home in Jhumri Tilaiya, Koderma district, Jharkhand.
Nirupama, a former student of the Indian Institute of Mass
Communication (IIMC), Delhi, was in a relationship with her colleague
and fellow journalist, Priyabanshu Ranjan. Her parents were known to
be opposed to the alliance as the boy was a non-Brahmin. The post-
mortem done on Nirupama's body established that the death was from
“asphyxia as a result of smothering” and confirmed ligature marks on
her neck, pointing to strangulation with a rope. She was reportedly
pregnant at the time of her death.

The police arrested Nirupama's mother, Subha Pathak, who was later
sent to judicial custody. According to the Koderma police, the family
had tried to mislead them by claiming that she had died of
electrocution. The police were also informed of the death only in the
evening though the incident had reportedly taken place in the morning.

Even as police investigations pointed to at least three persons being
involved in Nirupama's death, only the mother was taken into custody.
And, strangely, following a petition by Subha Pathak, the Chief
Judicial Magistrate of Koderma directed the police to register first
information reports (FIRs) against Priyabanshu under various non-
bailable sections of the Indian Penal Code, including 376 (rape), 306
(abetment to suicide), 586 (criminal intimidation) and 420 (cheating).

Friends and colleagues of Nirupama and Priyabanshu, and faculty
members of the IIMC, have gone on record as saying that the couple
wanted to get married. They have produced cell phone messages to prove
that nothing had gone wrong in the relationship and that Nirupama had
not committed suicide as the family later alleged. Realising that the
Jharkhand Police might not do justice to both the slain girl and her
friend, they have demanded an inquiry by the Central Bureau of
Investigation into the case.

Referring to the court's intervention, the All India Democratic
Women's Association (AIDWA) said: “The orders passed by the District
Judge are unjust and totally unwarranted. Since the relationship
between Nirupama and Priyabanshu was of a voluntary nature and
occurred with the consent of Nirupama, the question of rape or
cheating does not arise. There is no basis for initiating proceedings
against Priyabanshu when there is clear evidence that Nirupama was
killed in Jharkhand and her family is clearly involved. No
investigation has been ordered or conducted by the magistrate before
levelling these charges [against Priyabanshu]. The court should re-
examine the matter and issue orders for the arrest of the culprits,
who have committed a very barbaric and heinous crime.”

As the tendency to assert democratic rights, including marriage out of
choice, is on the rise, the backlash from individuals and communities
is equally strong.

The pressure to amend existing marriage laws such as the Hindu
Marriage Act is a symptom of this backlash and the deep desire to
maintain the status quo at any cost. To dismiss this as an expression
of mediaeval and feudal backwardness alone would be incorrect. It is
the challenge posed to the existing unequal social order in the form
of constitutional rights and the conferring of the right to property
on women that seems to be at the root of the current disquiet.

T.K. Rajalakshmi

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20100604271112000.htm

Volume 27 - Issue 11 :: May. 22-Jun. 04, 2010
INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE
from the publishers of THE HINDU

CENSUS 2011

The caste factor
VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN

An intense debate is on on the desirability and feasibility of
including caste as a parameter in the enumeration exercise.

PTI

A census official collects details of a family near Siliguri in West
Bengal in April during the first phase of Census 2011.

WHEN Prime Minister Manmohan Singh stood up in the Lok Sabha on May 7
to assure the House that the United Progressive Alliance (UPA)
government would “take a decision shortly” on caste-based census, his
statement essentially signified the fact that the politics of Other
Backward Classes (OBCs) continues to assert itself in India, despite
recent trends pointing to its reduced influence.

It was the persistent campaign of leaders and parties representing the
politics of OBC assertion – such as Mulayam Singh Yadav of the
Samajwadi Party (S.P.), Lalu Prasad of the Rashtriya Janata Dal (RJD)
and Sharad Yadav of the Janata Dal (United) – that changed the
dominant anti-caste census mindsets in the principal parties of the
country, the ruling Congress and the main opposition Bharatiya Janata
Party (BJP).

The OBC leaders and their parties had raised the issue consistently in
Parliament generating debate in the two big parties and forcing a
rethink. It was the BJP that first fell in line, with Sushma Swaraj,
Leader of the Opposition in the Lok Sabha, supporting the demand for
caste-based census on the floor of the House. Congress president Sonia
Gandhi and Manmohan Singh followed suit, in spite of persisting
differences within the party and the Union Cabinet.

In fact, barely two days before the Prime Minister's announcement,
Home Minister P. Chidambaram and senior officials in the Home Ministry
– which oversees the census operations carried out by the Registrar
General and Census Commissioner of India (RGI) – had stated that there
was no scope for including in Census 2011 enumeration of castes and
sections other than the Scheduled Castes (S.Cs) and Scheduled Tribes
(S.Ts), which has been a permanent feature in census exercises.

Just before Manmohan Singh's intervention in the Lok Sabha,
Chidambaram had laid emphasis on the logistical difficulties in
undertaking the task. He also pointed out that there was a proposal to
include caste as one of the parameters in Census 2001, but that the
then BJP-led National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government did not
favour it and continued to follow the policy that was in force since
1951.

However, all these contentions had to change in the face of persistent
pressure from the parties that bank on OBC mobilisation. Political
observers see a connection between the government's “change of heart”
on this issue and the precipitous realpolitik situations that the
Congress has had to face from time to time in Parliament on account of
its many mercurial alliance partners. The “help” that the S.P. and the
RJD rendered to the government recently in defeating the cut motions
moved by the BJP and the Left parties was also perceived as a factor
that inspired the change of stance.

However, votaries of caste-based census, including those in the BJP,
aver that the government – at least its top leadership as represented
by Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh – is motivated not merely by
realpolitik considerations. Analysing the change in the government's
stance, S.P. president Mulayam Singh Yadav told Frontline:

“It is a demand that has been raised systematically for over two
decades by parties from all parts of the country, including the S.P.
and the RJD as well as South Indian parties like the Dravida Munnetra
Kazhakam [DMK] and the Pattali Makkal Katchi [PMK]. However, the
Congress and the BJP had not been able to understand the importance
and relevance of the demand. Now, they too have realised its relevance
and the government has decided to take appropriate measures. As stated
often, nobody can stop an idea whose time has come and caste-based
census is certainly an idea whose time has come.”

Mulayam Singh Yadav went on to add that all the theoretical and
technical reasons cited against caste census have been exposed as
irrational over the past two decades. “The primary theoretical
argument against caste-based census was that it promoted casteism in
society and promoted caste divide. You have refrained from having
caste-based census for over six decades. Has this brought down
casteism or caste divide?

“Our contemporary society is such, that even educated girls are
subjected to honour killings for the crime of falling in love with
lower-caste boys. In fact, it is those who are against caste census
who want to perpetuate inequalities in society. They do not want to
confront the real size of backward people in the country and take
remedial measures to uplift them. It is this mental block that has
been obliterated now through the government's readiness for caste-
based census.”

Notwithstanding such assertions, it is still not clear how the
government would go about the exercise. To start with, the process of
Census 2011 has already begun and its first phase is nearing
completion in many of the smaller States. Secondly, despite the Prime
Minister's assurance in Parliament, the government has not taken the
formal steps to go ahead with caste-based census. Even a week after
the Prime Minister's announcement, the RGI's office has not received
any notification about the government's intent. Of course, senior UPA
leaders such as Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee have said that it is
not difficult to incorporate caste enumeration in the present census,
but how exactly this would be carried out is to be seen.

SHUBHAV SHUKLA/PTI

SAMAJWADI PARTY CHIEF Mulayam Singh Yadav and RJD supremo Lalu Prasad.
The OBC leaders and their parties raised consistently in Parliament
the demand for caste-based census, generating a debate in the Lok
Sabha and forcing a rethink on the issue.

The broad plan for Census 2011 – before the Prime Minister's
announcement of May 7 – was to get it done in two phases. The first
phase would involve housing surveys, while the second phase would
involve actual headcount. The housing surveys are being conducted in
several States and the headcount is expected to begin from February
2011.

As per the original plan, data on 15 demographic and socio-economic
parameters such as age, sex, religion, literacy, mother tongues/
languages known, economic activity and status, migration and S.C./S.T.
status were to be collected. According to Home Ministry officials
working closely with the RGI, the task in the second phase would
become harder if the government's May 7 promise in Parliament is to be
kept. Chidambaram himself had drawn attention to this aspect during
the debate in the Lok Sabha when he said that the census enumerator is
not an investigator or verifier and that the person has no training or
expertise to classify a citizen as a member of the OBC or otherwise.

Tricky dimensions

Another tricky dimension highlighted by a Home Ministry official
associated with the RGI is the lack of uniformity in caste
specifications across the country.

He said: “To start with, there is a central list of OBCs and State-
specific lists of OBCs. Some States do not have a list of OBCs at all,
while some other States have both OBCs and a subset of Most Backward
Castes [MBCs]. And again a caste would be in the OBC list in one State
and may not be in the list in another. There are several castes like
that. Names of some castes are found in the lists of S.Cs and OBCs.
S.C. members who have converted to Christianity or Islam are also
treated differently in different States. The status of migrants from
one State to another and that of children of inter-caste marriages in
terms of caste classification are also problematic.

“Enumerators do not have specialised skills to handle such
contradictions and this would certainly make matters difficult. Of
course, one could think in terms of giving detailed directions, but
these would be open to multifarious interpretations at the ground
level leading to more complications and sometimes even social strife.”

PMK appeal

Similar arguments were made by the Supreme Court in April 2009 when it
rejected an appeal by the PMK to introduce caste-based census. The
apex court Bench headed by the then Chief Justice K.G. Balakrishnan
refused to accede to the PMK appeal and give a direction to the
government to conduct a caste-based census. The Bench pointed out that
it was a policy decision left completely to the government and that
the government would have enough reasons not to do it. The court also
pointed out that one of these reasons is the fear in some sections
that the move could cause immense social strife.

Critics of the Prime Minister's assurance, including some social
activists and politicians, have raised questions about the overall
social and political implications of caste-based census. These critics
fear that the results of the census would strengthen reservation-
oriented OBC politics.

“There is every possibility of caste census throwing up such figures
that OBC politicians of different hues would start arguing for a
breach of the 50 per cent limit set by the Supreme Court for
reservation. These parties have been championing the cause of social
justice for the past two decades from public platforms but have failed
to ensure any real social justice. In this context a demand to raise
the reservation quota for the OBCs would be the first thing they would
do using the caste-based census figures. That would indeed come in
handy,” said a senior Congress politician.

Some social activists have raised the rhetorical question whether the
government would succumb to a demand for reservation in proportion to
population if the census proves that OBCs are more than 70 per cent of
the population.

Fallacious arguments

According to P.S. Krishnan, former Secretary to the Government of
India, who had played an important role in the Mandal Commission, most
of the arguments against caste-based census are fallacious and do not
stand up to rational scrutiny.

“In the first place it is a clear fact borne out by earlier censuses
that the S.C./ S.T. population in the country is close to 25 per cent.
There are also indicators to show that the several upper castes put
together would comprise about 20 to 25 per cent. So, under any
circumstances the OBC population would be between 50 and 55 per cent.
So nobody need have any fears about OBC population figures surging
through the roof. What this exercise would do, if the government
carries it out properly and diligently, would be to provide all
official agencies with authentic figures on different social strata in
the country.

“Moreover, census only provides base figures and it does not preclude
legitimate information and certification required for inclusion of
castes in an OBC list. So, there is no basis for fearing a caste-based
census and the data it would throw up,” he said.

The question is whether the UPA government, which in its second
innings, has been characterised by a kind of ad hocism, would be able
to put in place an infrastructure that can carry out the exercise
diligently.

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/20100604271113200.htm

navanavonmilita

unread,

May 23, 2010, 7:44:04 AM5/23/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-9/

RSS formally opposes caste census, BJP still divided

NDTV Correspondent, Sunday May 23, 2010, New Delhi

In the latest development on the caste census issue, the Rashtriya
Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS) has formally opposed the caste in census.

This development is contrary to the BJP stand, which the sources say
indicates a rift with the party.

However, the BJP too battles a huge dilemma - one faction, including
party president Nitin Gadkari is against caste census. The other
faction, fearing political isolation, does want caste in the census.

This dilemma was highlighted best by BJP general secretary Ananth
Kumar's recent angry outburst against Mandalites in Parliament. "You
decide if you are with India, Bangladesh or Pakistan," Ananth Kumar
had said to Lalu Yadav. Another senior BJP leader, Gopinath Munde,
argues, "What's wrong if a person writes his caste during the census?"

The Sangh's top leaders worry that the focus on caste will create new
fissures and work against the Sangh's nationalist agenda.

Privately, the BJP fears that the census could eventually create new
caste satraps, especially among Most Backward Castes (MBCs). Their
rise could upset the BJP's core support base - the upper caste. But
the party also worries that if it lags behind in finding those
leaders, it may lose the MBC vote.

In the 1990s, the party saw the rise of backward caste leaders like
Kalyan Singh and Uma Bharati. Though the BJP's upper caste lobby
eventually edged them out, the political landscape has changed now.
Nearly 40 per cent of the BJP's MPs today are from backward castes. So
are many of its leaders - Narendra Modi, Shivraj Singh Chauhan, and
Sushil Modi.

The BJP recalls that those who opposed Mandal One lost out
politically.

http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/rss-bjp-rift-on-caste-census-27281.php?u=1401&cp

navanavonmilita

unread,

May 23, 2010, 8:53:18 AM5/23/10

Funny thing that Murlidhar Devidas Amte, popularly called as Baba
Amte, a selfless social worker and a Hindu saint and Hindu fascist,
Keshav Baliram Hedgevar, the founder of Brahmin terrorist group,
Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, RSS come from the same region of
Maharashtra, Varhad.

It is also very interesting that Mahatma Gandhi established an Ashram
at Wardha to bring peace between not only all fractured groups of
Hindu society but making a strong effort to accept all religions,
including Islam and Christianity for peaceful regeneration of Indian
society.

Mahatma Gandhi looked at former untouchables, Dalits in newer parlance
as "Harijans." Literally meaning children of God. Leaders of Hindu
society were all high caste Hindus. Mahatma Gandhi was a Vaishya and
brahmins hated his guts for being an usurper.

One Brahmin hoodlum, Nathuram Godse, actually assassinated Mahatma
Gandhi. The conspiracy to kill Mahatma Gandhi was hatched by
Hindumahasabha. Vinayak Damodar Savarkar was consulted. Savarkar and
Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar of RSS were accused in conspiracy but held
innocent for lack of solid evidence. RSS was banned. Brahmins were
beaten-up and their homes were vandalized/burned in Maharashtra.

That is history. Brahmins recovered, RSS prospered and with the help
of another Hindu Mahasabha leader, Dr Shyamaprasad Mukherji, entered
into politics. That is also a history.

The point I am making is that some noble Brahmins gave up their entire
lives to the service of society/humanity, whereas, the current Brahmin/
Bania leadership, aka Sangh Parivar, is stoking the fuel of castism
and igniting the hatred of other religions. These bastards are
entering into unholy political/power alliances and totally fucking-up
the political process. How sad it is. Brahmins are the root cause of
Indian socio-political malaise/evil.

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-9/

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-10/

Govt to present 'Dalit mitra' awards after 3-year wait
Ramu Bhagwat, TNN, May 3, 2010, 06.21am IST

Tags:Nagpur|Dalit mitra

NAGPUR: The three-year-long wait for recipients of the ‘Dalit mitra’
award in the state will end on Tuesday. Every year, the state presents
the Dr Babsaheb Ambedkar Dalit Mitra Puraskar to 50 individuals and 10
institutions for exemplary work in service of the socially depressed.
For some unknown reason, the awards have not been distributed for
three years. Now, chief minister Ashok Chavan and deputy CM Chhagan
Bhujbal will distribute the prizes at a function in Mumbai on
Tuesday.

Soon after taking over charge of the social justice and empowerment
ministry, Shivajirao Moghe, the seniormost minister in the Chavan
cabinet, noticed that his predecessor Chandrakant Handore could not
arrange the ‘Dalit mitra’ award function for three years though the
list of winners was finalised. The award comprises Rs 15,000 cash,
certificate and memento in case of individuals and Rs 25,000 for
institutions. Moghe organised the award function on Tuesday.

“No doubt it will be a happy occasion for about 180 prizewinners. But,
sadly, at least a couple of winners are no more,” Moghe told TOI.
Moghe noticed a similar delay in distribution of prizes for the
handicapped and disabled persons for the last three years. On last
December 3, the day dedicated to the disabled, he organised a function
and formally gave the prizes.

The senior Congress leader from Vidarbha also found that beneficiaries
of the postmatric scholarships in the state were suffering as they
often did not get the scholarship money on time. There are 18 lakh
such beneficiaries in the state and the total scholarship amount
distributed is to the tune of Rs 1,600 crore. While the Scheduled
Caste candidates get 100% amount from government of India, for the
OBCs, state and the Centre contribute half each. As the funds were
routed through the educational institutions, they got them at the fag
end of the academic year.

Now, Moghe’s ministry has cleared the way for electronic transfer of
money to every student’s bank account. IT company Mascom will
facilitate the electronic transfer of money. It is also proposed to
give the scholarship amount on monthly basis to help students instead
of the lump sum given at the end of the year, said Moghe.

Readers' opinions (1)

Dr Shubhada Khaire Coventry,UK 05/05/2010 at 08:48 pm
Dear Sir...Please publish names of all the awardees with their details/
work. They need to be applauded. India will rise more with social rise
and uplift.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5884820.cms

govt institutes Dalit Ratna & Dalit Mitra awards
Digital Goa News Service

Panaji, April 14 - Chief Minister Shri Digambar Kamat announced today
that the Government will institute a Dalit Ratna and Dalit Mitra state
awards from this year for the persons who dedicate their services for
the betterment of Dalit people in the state.

Shri Kamat was speaking at the State level function organized by
Directorate of Social Welfare and Goa State SC and OBC Finance and
Development Corporation on the occasion 119 Birth Anniversary of
Bharat Ratna Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar in the city. The function was
presided by the Minister for Social Welfare Shri Ramkrishna Dhavlikar,
Shri Manohar Ajagaonkar, Minister for Sports was guest of honour. Shri
Vishnu Wagh, Chairman of Goa State SC and OBC Finance and Development
Corporation was key note speaker of the function.

Earlier Chief Minister Shri Digambar Kamat lead the people of Goa
paying tribute to Bharat Ratna Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar on his 119th
birth anniversary by offering garland to the Statue of Dr. Ambedkar.
He was followed by Minister for Social Welfare Shri Ramkrishna
Dhavlikar, Minister for Panchayat Shri Manohar Ajgaonkar and other
dignitaries.

Speaking further, Chief Minister said, today Science has advanced
tremendously but great personalities can not be put to birth with the
help of Science. Dr. Ambedkar's work has made him great and champion
of down trodden people of India he added.

He said, Dr. Ambedkar dedicated his life for the upliftment of Dalit
Community and make them strong. The people of all communities should
emulate Dr. Ambedkar to work for the welfare of poorest poor in the
society. This will make India strong in real sense, the Chief Minister
said.

Chief Minister assured that the Government will look in to the demands
of Dalit community regarding reservation percentage and beautification
of Dr. Ambedkar parles.

Transport Minister Shri Ramkrishna Davlikar highlighted the work of
Dr. Ambedkar for the humanity he said, he made special provision in
our constitution that gave an opportunities to the Dalit communities
to stand on their own feets. He said, all Indian's should respect the
Indian constitution and provision therein for the upliftment of Dalit
communities. This will make India united, strong and prosperous , he
added.

Minister for Sports Shri, Manohar Azgaonkar paid rich tributes to the
memory of Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar and his dedicated work towards
welfare of the Dalit Communities in India. He said, Dr. Ambedkar has
protected the interest of Dalit communities while preparing the Indian
constitutions. He said, Hindu organisations should come forward to
protect the interest of Dalit communities. They should fight for entry
to temples, crematoriums for Dalit such action of Hindu organizations
will help implementation of various provisions in Indian constitutions
for the betterment of Dalit communities.

He also demanded that the Government should consider the demand to
increase in reservation for SC communities in the State.

Shri Shambhu Bhau Babdekar Former Dy. Speaker and Leader of Dalit
community in his address stated that Dr. Ambedkar work was not limited
to the upliftment of Dalit communities but also was to make India
politically and economically strong . He was famous in America and
other Countries as economist this idea and thoughts of social reforms
should be emulated by the present generation to make India united and
superpower, he said.

Shri Chandrakant Jadhav, President of Andhashradha Nirmulan Samiti
demanded increase in percentage in reservation for SC community and
crematorium in every village in the state for SC community.

Shri Vishnu Surya Wagh while delivering keynote address said, Dr.
Ambedkar and Goa had a special relation. He was aware political and
social conditions of the people of Goa. He visited Goa in the year
1925 and stayes for two days in Goa an invitation of his friend. After
Independence to India in the year 1954, he wrote to Indian Government
about Goa's liberation. He told the Indian Government to liberate Goa
from the clutches of Portuguese. He also wrote a letter to the
Portuguese Governor in the year 1935 and demanded to stop the
harassment of Masurashram Swami and his followers, who were harassed
by the Portuguese Government in connection with reconversion of Hindu
people in Goa.

Referring to the quality, work and life of Dr. Ambedkar, Shri Wagh
said, he suffered lot due to social order of his time and therefore
decided to fight against this social order and establish a new social
order where all Indian can live with equal Status and equal
opportunities for their progress.

He said, Dr. Ambedkar was great in many ways. There are many leaders
and Social reformers in world's history of last ten thousand years.
But there is no single leader who experienced the suffering of social
order of his own society and fought against it.

He said, to earn more and more knowledge is a real tribute to the
memory of this great leader.

The function was attended by Mayor of CCP, Smt. Corolina Po, Secretary
Shri Ganesh Koyu, Director of Information and Publicity Shri Menino
Peres, President of Konkani Academy Shri N. Shivdas, Freedom fighter
Shri Bhayya Desai and large number of people.

Shri J.B. Bhingi, Joint Secretary welcomed the guest and Shri Santan
Fernandes, Dy. Director Social Welfare proposed a vote of thanks.
Artist of Kala Academy presented invocation Song, Shri Govind Bhagat
compared the function

http://www.digitalgoa.com/ca_disp.php?id=1051

Baba Amte - A messiah

Posted Date: 14 Jan 2010

Author: N K Ravishankara Member Level: Diamond
Rating: Points: 25 (Rs 20)

Murlidhar Devidas Amte better known as Baba Amte, dedicated his life
for the eradication of social evils like untouchability and worked for
his life for the rehabilitation of leprosy patients.

Baba Amte – About early life

Baba Amte, the very familiar name when it comes to the topic of
service to mankind, Murlidhar Devidas Amte was born on 26th December,
1914, he was an emissary to lead social problems, the legendary social
activist, the most known factor about his social service is the
empowerment of the poor people who suffered from the deadly disease
Leprosy.

He was born to Devidas and Lakshmibai in a town called Hinganghat in
Wardha district of Maharashtra State, in fact they were a very wealthy
Jagirdars and born in a Brahmin family, his father Devidas was serving
as an British official and who is also responsible for the
administration of the district and also for revenue collection.

As he was trained in the Law, he became a successful lawyer at Wardha,
later he left that practice and joined the freedom struggle against
the British rule, he started his new career working as an defense
lawyer to the leaders who involved in the freedom struggle and also
who fought against Britishers in the 1942 Quit India movement, later
he spent some of his time at Sevagram ashram which was started by
Mahathma Gandhi and this place influenced him to become the follower
of Gandhian movement for the rest of his life.

Trained in law, Amte developed a successful legal practice at Wardha.
He soon got involved in the Indian struggle for freedom from the
British Raj, and started acting as a defense lawyer for leaders of the
Indian freedom movement whom the British authorities had imprisoned in
the 1942 Quit India movement. He spent some time at Sevagram ashram of
Mahatma Gandhi, and became a follower of Gandhism for the rest of his
life. He practiced various aspects of Gandhism, including yarn
spinning using a charkha and wearing khadi.

Amte founded three ashrams for treatment and rehabilitation of leprosy
patients, disabled people, and people from marginalized sections of
the society in Maharashtra, India.

In 1973, Amte founded the Lok Biradari Prakalp to work among the Madia
Gond tribal people of Gadchiroli District.

Amte devoted his life to many other social causes, the most notable
among which were generating public awareness of importance of
ecological balance, wildlife preservation, and the Narmada Bachao
Andolan.

Baba Amte – Personal and family life

Baba Amte married Sadhana Guleshastri in the year 1946, she also took
an active part in Baba Amte’s movements with great and an equal
dedication, they have two sons Vikas and Prakash and Baba Amte’s
daughters-in-law were Mandakini and Bharathi and both of them were
doctors by profession, incidentally all his members actively
participated and dedicated their lives in Baba Amte’s social work.

Baba Amte’s eldest son Prakash runs an Leprosy Service Society called
‘Maharogi Sewa Samithi, he and his wife Mandakini simultaneously runs
an school and hospital near Hemalkasa village in Gadchiroli in
Maharashtra for the sake of underprivileged and people belongs to a
tribal community Madia Gond, earlier Baba Amte’s son Prakash was in
government service, both of them left their jobs to start a hospital
and school and also an orphanage for injured wild animals, they had
nurtured a lion and few leopards.

Baba Amte’s grandson Digant who is also an doctor by profession and
another grandson Aniket who is an engineer too dedicated their lives
for the mission undertook by Baba Amte, for their outstanding concern
and for the noble cause Baba Amte’s son Prakash and his wife Mandakini
awarded the prestigious Magasay Award in recognition of their
dedicated community service and leadership.

Baba Amte’s another som Vikas and his wife runs an hospital near
Anandwan and they are in the service of coordinate operations between
satellite projects and Anandwan.

In the days of Baba Amte the deadly disease Leprosy had more effect
from society than the disease as this disease had an social stigma,
moreover this disease had an myth and disbelief that leprosy is an
contagious disease, Baba Amte shown to the world that by citing an
incident by injecting the bacilli from infected patient to himself, by
this way he eradicated and dispel the disbelief that leprosy is not an
contagious disease.

Due to his relentless efforts and service Anandwan and Hamalkasa
village saw an hospital in both the places, Anandwan got an
university, orphanage and a school for the blind, which is self
sufficient to maintain the residents which is over 5000, his community
development was recognized through the world.

Baba Amte – His principles on par with Gandhi

Baba Amte is staunch supporter of Gandhi in following principles, only
khadi clothes were worn by him which were made out of looms in
Anandwan, he is a firm believer of self sufficiency, through the
helpless people he saw life to his movements by developing village
industries which brought his ideas into practice.

Baba Amte is against social evils like corruption, mismanagement and
policies projected and shortsighted against the poor, he has followed
only non violent moves to fight against all these evils, but unlike
Gandhi he is an atheist, his principle ‘service to mankind is like
worshipping god’ made him an atheist.

Baba Amte and Narmada Bachao Andolan

He joined Narmada Bachao Ahdolan along with another social worker
Medha Patkar in the year 1990, for this cause he left Anandwan and
started living along side of Narmada river, he fought against unjust
displacement of local residents and more over the cause and effects of
damage caused to environment, as the construction of Sardar Sarovar
was the main cause for this movement.

Baba Amte and his death

He was not in good health due to his relentless and restless struggle
against several evils, he was forced to lie down on bed on most of the
time due to a severe spondylosis condition, unfortunately in the year
2007 he was diagnosed with leukemia, ultimately this disease took him
away from all his movements on 9th of February, 2008, though according
to Hindu traditions his body was not burnt but buried as this was his
last wish.

Baba Amte – Awards

Baba Amte conferred with Padmashree in the year 1971, Padma Vibhushana
in 1986 and welfare of the disabled award in the year 1986 all three
conferred on him by the Government of India.

Other awards includes Dalit Mitra in the year 1974 from Maharashtra
Government, Rashtriya Bhushan in 1978 from F.I.E. [India] Foundation,
Jamnalal Bajaj award in 1979, N.D.Diwan award in 1980 by National
Society for Equal Opportunities for the 'Handicapped' (NASEOH),
Bombay, Ramanashree award from Maharashtra, Indira Gandhi Memorial
Award from Madhya Pradesh Government, Raja Ram Mohan Roy award from
New Delhi in the year 1986, Fr. Maschio Platinum Award in the year
1988, G.D. Birla International Award in the year 1988, for his
outstanding contribution to humanism, Mahdeo Balwant Natu Puraskar in
1991, Adivasi Sewak Award in 1991, from Government of Maharashtra,
Kusumagraj Puraskar in the year 1991, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar Dalit
Mitra Award in 1992, from Government of Maharashtra, Shri Nemichand
Shrishrimal Award in 1994, Fr. Tong Memorial Award in the year 1995,
from Voluntary Health Association of India, Kushta Mitra Puraskar in
1995 from Vidarbha Maharogi Sewa Mandal in Amravati, Maharashtra, Bhai
Kanhaiya Award, in the year 1997 from Sri Guru Harkrishan Education
Trust, Bhatinda in Punjab, Manav Sewa Award in the year 1997 from
Young Men's Gandhian Association, Rajkot in Gujarat, Sarthi Award in
1997, Mahatma Gandhi Charitable Trust Award in the year 1997, Gruhini
Sakhi Sachiv Puraskar in 1997 from Gadima Pratishthan in Maharashtra,
Kumar Gandharva Puraskar in the year 1998, Apang Mitra Puraskar in
1998 from Helpers of the Handicapped, Kolhapur in Maharashtra, Bhagwan
Mahaveer Award in the year 1998 from Chennai, Diwaliben Mohanlal Mehta
Award in 1998, Justice K. S. Hegde Award in the year 1998 from
Karnataka Government, Baya Karve Award in 1998, Savitribai Phule Award
in 1998 from Government of Maharashtra, Federation of Indian Chambers
of Commerce and Industry Award in the year 1988 from FICCI for
outstanding achievements in training and placement of disabled
persons, Satpaul Mittal Award in 1998, from Nehru Sidhant Kendra Trust
in Ludhiana, Punjab, Adivasi Sevak Puraskar in the year 1998 from
Government of Maharashtra, Gandhi Peace Prize, in the year 1999, Dr.
Ambedkar International Award for Social Change in the year 1999,
Maharashtra Bhushan Award in the year 2004 from Government of
Maharastra, Bharathvasa award in 2008.

Other honorary titles includes D.Litt., in the year 1980 from Nagpur
University, Nagpur, Maharashtra, Krishi Ratna in the year 1981, Hon.
Doctorate from P.K.V. Agricultural University in Akola of Maharashtra,
D.Litt., in the year 1985-86 from Pune University, Pune, Desikottama
in the year 1988, Honorary Doctorate from Visva-Bharati University,
Santiniketan, West Bengal

Mahathma Gandhi himself had conferred on Baba Amte the title
‘Abhayasadhak’ which literally means ‘A Fearless Aspirant’ for his
fight against leprosy.

http://www.indiastudychannel.com/resources/102591-Baba-Amte-A-messiah.aspx

ABOUT US

Shikshan Maharshi Dr. Panjabrao alias Bhausaheb Deshmukh established
Shri Shivji Education Siciety in 1931. The society started with Shri
Shivaji Maharaj School and Shri Shivaji Maratha Hostel. Today there
are 271 various branches of the society such as School, Colleges,
Hostels, Montessori, Primary School, Workshops, Supporting Services,
Printing Press, Gymnasium, Health Centre. Shri Shivaji Education
Society has become the greatest institution in the central India.

Today various courses are going on in the various branches of the
society such as Arts, Commerce, Engineering, Low, Medical, Physical,
Education, Information Technology, Bio – Technology etc. The society
was honored with Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar Dalit Mitra award, in 1993-94,
Maharashtra Government honored the society on 5th September, 2000 with
the greatest Educational Society’s award and gave the prize of one
lakh rupees. On this the occasion the State Government praised the
society for its educational and cultural contribution.
This College was established in 1961 by Late J.D. alias Babasaheb
Sangludkar who was the famous social worker of this region as well as
ex member of legislative assembly. Late Babasaheb was born on 16th
October, 1915. While working as the President Janpad Sabha he provided
educational facilities in the rural area. In the beginning this
college start ed in the old building of janpad sabha. The College was
developed from the amount, which had been collected from the farmers
and teachers of this region. It was possible only due to the efforts
of Babasaheb. It was will of Late Babasaheb to make this college the
center of all the educational activities. This college works under the
guidance of Shri Shivaji Education Society.

Government gave 13 acres land to this college. The building of college
has been constructed on this land. The college started in 1961 with
Arts and Commerce faculties, Alongwith these tow faculties there are
Junior College, Minimum Competency Vocational Courses, Science faculty
of Senior College, Music, Home – Economics, MS-CIT, Research Lab etc.
in the college. All the credit goes to the efforts of Late Babasaheb
Sangrudkar. Unfortunately he died on 13th Janury, 1969, in his memory
the college was named as J. D. Patil Sangludkar Mahavidayala,
Daryapur.

In the college the science faculty came into existence in 1989 and
credit goes to Late. Smt. Kokilabai Gawande alias Dadiji. It was her
dream that students of rural area should acquire knowledge of Science
and she fulfilled her dreams by starting science faculty in the
college. Her work was not only restricted up to educational field but
she devoted her life in social and political field. She was the first
Lady MLA in Vidarbha.
In the Science Faculty there are two research laboratories i.e in
Zoology & Chemistry, besides there are two Career Oriented Course in
the College in the College viz. Fresh Water Fish Culture & Soil
Quality and Water Testing. Both these courses are sanctioned by
University Grants Commission New Delhi.

The College has got legacy of skilled and trained teachers. Honesty in
teaching is the characteristic of this teacher of this college Various
activities always take place In the college to provide advanced
knowledge to the students. All teaching and Non – teaching staff of
the college work under the guidance of Shri Shivaji Education Society
and Local Management Committee.

http://jdpsd.org/pages/aboutus.htm

cogitoergosum

unread,

May 27, 2010, 5:19:09 AM5/27/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-9/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-10/

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone/

Amar loses last friend as Jaya takes SP ticket to RS
TNN, May 27, 2010, 02.33am IST

NEW DELHI: Of all the blows inflicted on him by his friends-turned-
foes in Samajwadi Party, this one is going to hurt Amar Singh the
most. On Wednesday, SP renominated cinestar Jaya Bachchan to Rajya
Sabha, in a decision aimed at driving a wedge between the Bachchans
and their conduit to Mulayam Singh Yadav.

The expelled Amar Singh has always laid great store in his friendship
with Amitabh Bachchan and industrialist Anil Ambani, proudly pointing
to the bond among what he called the 'triple As' - the chief reason
why he, after having fallen out with Mulayam, refused to sue for
peace.

Singh became close to the Bachchans when Amitabh had fallen on bad
times, with his films bombing at the box office and his corporate
venture ABCL running aground. The Bachchans embraced him with great
zeal, brushing aside the controversies that have always shadowed the
colourful politician.

Jaya's acceptance of the RS nomination will put his famed ties under
severe strain.

In deciding to renominate Jaya, the Samajwadi leadership seems to have
been guided by the sole consideration of committing "emotional
atyachar" on Amar Singh. Jaya brings little political advantage to
Samajwadis which, given their weakening hold over UP, could have used
the RS berth ^ one of just two that they are going to have ^ for
better electoral returns.

The party has chosen Rashid Masood, former Union minister, for the
other RS seat.

Jaya had started distancing herself from Singh soon after he was
expelled from the party, much to the disappointment of the former
general secretary who had expected loyalists like Jaya Bachchan and
Jaya Prada to stick with him.

While Jaya Prada, who is a Lok Sabha MP, did stick her neck out and
was expelled along with Singh, Jaya
Bachchan sought to continue in SP. She refused to criticize Mulayam
and, at least on one occasion, shocked Singh and many others by
calling the SP chief a "father-like" figure. Any hope that she would
turn her back on SP after retiring from RS has also been dashed with
SP extending her parliamentary innings.

The rival reactions told the tale. Akhilesh Yadav, son of Mulayam,
said, "SP has nominated Bachchan... as she has been a party loyalist
and has worked hard to strengthen the party." It was in marked
contrast to Amar Singh who said that he was not surprised. "After all,
she has done the ideal act of choosing party over devar (brother-in-
law, as she calls Amar Singh)," he sighed, while complimenting Jaya on
her "successful politics".

Samajwadis were happy for having retained the SP tag on Jaya, and
ensured their continued access to 'Big B' independently of Singh.

But observers feel that the split with the Bachchans may not be such a
bad deal for the ousted leader who is pursuing Congress as his post-SP
refuge. "The removal of links with the Bachchans will help with
Congress where they evoke strong feelings," a leader said.

Singh's close relations with the Bachchan family conflicted with his
objective of wooing Congress. A public divorce from the Bachchans may
remove at least one irritant in his political pursuit.

Singh's supporters also took satisfaction from the fact that by
renominating Jaya, SP had "wasted" a seat.

As the decision was announced from the SP headquarters in Lucknow,
there were raised eyebrows that the SP had plumped for an "apolitical"
Bachchan. Mulayam was expected to nominate a political person to the
Upper House with 2012 assembly challenge in mind. A leader
representing a social bloc may have fitted UP's identity politics.

Like the nomination of a Rajput could have been used to dent Amar
Singh's campaign who is touring the state to polarise the community
against SP. The community plumped for SP in recent times with Mulayam
making Singh the face of the 'woo Thakur' campaign.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Amar-loses-last-friend-as-Jaya-takes-SP-ticket-to-RS/articleshow/5978897.cms

Caste census on, GoM to decide when and how
Subodh Ghildiyal, TNN, May 27, 2010, 01.28am IST
ArticleComments Post a commentEmail this articlePrint this articleSave
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Tags:Census|UPA government|Kapil Sibal|Union Cabinet|mandal commission|
hrd minister|caste based census
NEW DELHI: The UPA government has decided to go for caste census, with
the Union Cabinet on Wednesday entrusting a group of ministers with
the task of fleshing out the modalities of enumerating caste in the
ongoing decennial census operations.

The GoM, likely to be headed by finance minister Pranab Mukherjee who
has come out in favour of the demand raised by OBC leaders, will see
if caste enumeration is to be done in the second stage of the
headcount from February, or at the last stage when biometric signs of
citizens are to be collected. The PM handed over the issue to the GoM,
concurring with the view that modalities had to be worked out before
hand.

Though no formal decision in favour of caste census was taken at the
Cabinet, the ministers appeared to debate on the assumption that the
issue had been clinched. It was in contrast to PM's statement at a
press conference on Monday that the Cabinet would decide on caste
census.

Once again, the Cabinet saw strong support pouring in for caste
census, though with three holdouts in Kapil Sibal, M S Gill and Anand
Sharma.

Sources said it was law minister Veerappa Moily who set the tone by
arguing that the call for caste census was an opportunity for Congress
to make up for the loss in the political war of credits over Mandal
commission.

In what appeared a warning directed at his party, Moily said Congress
in many states lost OBC support because it was not seen as party to
implementation of Mandal report. He said the mistake should not be
repeated.

Moily countered the argument that restoration of caste count would
give a fillip to casteism, saying that the very existence of a
ministry (social justice), which is tasked with OBC welfare, showed
that caste was already a determinant in decision making.

The opposition, which held up a decision last time, did not disappear
but was decidedly muted. HRD minister Kapil Sibal and sports minister
M S Gill were most vocal. Sibal said being a national party, Congress
should decide only after great circumspection and debate, and sought
wide-ranging consultations.
Gill counselled caution as the matter would have a bearing on demands
for reducing and increasing quotas.

He cited the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee's diktat to
people of Punjab not to mention caste in the census and wondered how
it would be done in the state. Commerce minister Anand Sharma put on
record his opposition but was not as vocal as the last time.

However, coming against the backdrop of a powerful campaign by OBC
satraps for revival of caste-based census, Moily's argument on its
political implications appeared to have resonated well. DMK minister
Dayanidhi Maran said if caste count was being done, it should not be
delayed and be included in both the stages - February headcount and
the biometric stage.

Crucially, key ministers like A K Antony and Pranab Mukherjee
emphasised only on the process of doing it. Even those who are
considered to be "neutrals" like Kamal Nath chipped in to say that
caste was a fact of life.

As the demand for caste census appeared clinched, there was a push for
going beyond mere identification of OBCs to enumerating sub-castes.
Sources said while Sibal asked if there was a consensus on enumerating
caste or sub-caste, Sushil Kumar Shinde said there was need to
identify sub-castes.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Caste-census-on-GoM-to-decide-when-and-how/articleshow/5978778.cms

India
Events of 2007
India claims an abiding commitment to human rights, but its record is
marred by continuing violations by security forces in
counterinsurgency operations and by government failure to rigorously
implement laws and policies to protect marginalized communities. A
vibrant media and civil society continue to press for improvements,
but without tangible signs of success in 2007.

Related Material

India
Country Page

Download Chapter (PDF)
World Report Chapter, January 31, 2008

World Report
Report, January 31, 2008

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India faces serious insurgencies and armed political movements in
several states. Armed groups have been responsible for attacks on
civilians, killings, torture, and extortion. In response, however,
Indian security forces have repeatedly engaged in abusive tactics. The
government has yet to root out the policies responsible for the
violations, and continues to grant virtual impunity to perpetrators.
Despite signing a new United Nations treaty to combat forced
disappearances in February 2007, the Indian government is yet to
launch a credible independent investigation into alleged
disappearances and fake “encounter killings” throughout the country.

There is continuing failure to protect the rights of women, children,
Dalits, tribal groups, religious minorities, and those living with HIV/
AIDS. Authorities have introduced significant legal and policy reforms
in many of these areas, but implementation has lagged, exacerbating
popular discontent over widening economic and social disparities.

Armed Conflicts and Security Force Impunity
India’s diverse ethnic and regional identities, coupled with deeply
rooted economic and social grievances, have fueled violent
insurgencies and armed campaigns. Militants often target civilians and
engage in torture and extortion. While a number of regional conflicts
pose serious threats, counterinsurgency operations by Indian security
forces have led to large-scale violations including arbitrary
detention, torture, and extrajudicial killings. Perpetrators are
rarely prosecuted and the Indian government has not acknowledged or
addressed institutional shortcomings that foster such impunity.

Conflict in Jammu and Kashmir
While the violence which began in 1989 has abated slightly since talks
were initiated between India, Pakistan, and some separatist groups in
2005, abuses by all parties continue.

In February 2007, police investigations into a “missing persons” case
in Jammu and Kashmir exposed a problem long alleged by human rights
groups: people were being killed in custody by security forces who
constructed fake armed encounters, staging executions to look like
acts of defense.

In April 2007, a working group on Jammu and Kashmir recommended the
repeal of laws sanctioning impunity, such as the Armed Forces Special
Powers Act, but the government has failed to act.

Violence in the Northeast
Ethnic separatist tensions in some northeastern states ignited again
in 2007. Based on newspaper reports, the South Asia Terrorism Portal
recorded 640 deaths in 2006; as of November 2007, 880 people had
already died.

In Assam, alleged members of the United Liberation Front of Asom
(ULFA), a militant group, attacked and killed scores of Hindi-speaking
migrants, most of them from Bihar state. Over 200 civilians had been
killed in the violence as of late November.

Manipur remains among the most violent states in the northeast, with
militants blamed for widespread extortion and targeted killings and
security forces accused of violations such as torture, arbitrary
detention, and custodial killings.

Combating Maoist Extremists
An ongoing campaign by leftwing extremists called Maoists or Naxalites
has gained momentum in several Indian states. The Maoists find support
among the rural poor, who feel left out by India's modernization
process and surging economic growth. Unfortunately, these same
vulnerable groups also suffer at the hand of the Maoists because of
the latter’s illegal taxes and demands for food and shelter.
Succumbing to such extortion puts civilians at risk of retaliation by
security forces.

According to the Ministry of Home Affairs, 950 people died in 2006 in
Maoist-related violence and as of November 2007, according to data
gathered by the South Asia Terrorism Portal, more than 550 people had
died, including 200 civilians.

Violent attacks, whether perpetuated by the Maoists or security
forces, take place in remote areas, making it difficult to
independently monitor the situation.

Justice for Past Abuses in Punjab
In 2007 there was still no progress in investigating thousands of
secret cremations in the northern state of Punjab. Following a spate
of violent attacks by Sikh militants starting in the early 1980s,
security forces illegally detained, tortured, executed, or
“disappeared” thousands of people during counterinsurgency operations.
None of the security officials who bear substantial responsibility for
these violations has been brought to justice. The National Human
Rights Commission in 2007 prepared for final hearings to determine
compensation in a small number of cases, but the government still has
not investigated how people died and who was responsible.

Failure of Relocation and Rehabilitation Policies
Tremendous economic growth and plans for industrial development and
infrastructure building have uprooted millions of traders, farmers,
and landless laborers. Protests by affected groups are ignored and
often brutally curbed through excessive use of force.

On March 14, violence in Nandigram in West Bengal state during
protests against state-sponsored land acquisition claimed at least 14
lives. In November, the ruling Communist Party of India (Marxist)
(CPM) allowed its cadre to forcefully evict the Nandigram protestors.
The National Human Rights Commission, political parties, and civil
society activists condemned the violence that followed. The state
government, which had advance notice of the evictions, failed to
deploy adequate security forces to ensure law and order.

There have also been protests in several other states including
Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh, and Orissa.

Rights of Dalits and Indigenous Tribal Groups
In March 2007, the Committee on the Elimination of Racial
Discrimination (CERD) urged the government to take effective measures
to protect Dalits and tribal groups. Dalits and indigenous peoples
(known as Scheduled Tribes or adivasis) continue to face
discrimination, exclusion, and acts of communal violence. Laws and
policies adopted by the Indian government provide a strong basis for
protection, but are not being faithfully implemented by local
authorities. Instead of addressing these concerns, the Indian
government insists that caste is not the same as race and therefore
discrimination based on caste and tribe falls outside the mandate of
CERD.

Legacy of Communal Violence
A number of attacks occurred on places of religious worship in 2007,
including a bomb blast at the revered Sufi shrine in Ajmer in October.
The Indian government succeeded in preventing communal riots following
this and other attacks. The Indian government, however, has failed to
prosecute most of those who instigate or participate in religious mob
violence.

Despite national and international condemnation, the Gujarat state
government continues to protect those responsible for the killing of
Muslims during the 2002 riots.

After more than a decade of hearings, a special court convicted 100
people for their involvement in the 1993 serial bomb attacks in
Mumbai. However, the individuals believed responsible for attacks upon
Muslims in January 1993 which preceded the bomb blasts are yet to be
prosecuted and punished.

Despite promises made by the prime minister in 2005, there was also no
progress in justice for victims of the 1984 anti-Sikh riots.

Death Penalty
There were no executions in 2007 but the death penalty remains on the
books. Over 40 people were sentenced to death for the 1993 Mumbai
bombings.

Human Rights Defenders
In Chattisgarh state, which experienced more Maoist violence than any
other state in 2007, civil society organizations have come under
attack in a classic example of “punishing the messenger.” Prominent
human rights defender Dr. Binayak Sen was detained for his alleged
contact with the Maoist groups. Several journalists and other human
rights activists said that they had been threatened by government
officials.

Failure to Protect Children’s Rights
Despite a scheme launched three years ago to provide universal
education, millions of children in India still have no access to
education and work long hours, many as bonded laborers. Many children
continue to be forced into becoming soldiers in areas where there are
armed conflicts, or are trafficked for marriage, sex work, or
employment. Others languish in substandard orphanages or detention
centers. In 2007, the National Children’s Commission began operations
to ensure protection of children’s rights.

Rights of Those Living with HIV/AIDS
New estimates of people living with HIV/AIDS place the number at
around 2.5 million, excluding children under age 15. Children and
adults living with HIV/AIDS, as well as those whose marginalized
status puts them at highest risk—sex workers, injection drug users,
and men who have sex with men—face widespread stigmatization and
discrimination, including denial of employment, access to education,
orphan care, and healthcare. A promised law that would ban
discrimination against people living with HIV had still not been
presented to parliament at this writing, and sodomy laws have not been
repealed. Although the number of people on anti-retroviral treatment
increased, including over 6,000 children, India at this writing still
fell short of the 100,000 people that a government minister promised
to put on treatment in 2002.

Rights of Women
India has a mixed record on women’s rights: despite recent
improvements in legal protections, gender-based discrimination and
violence remain deeply entrenched. The low status of women and girls
is revealed by the skewed sex ratio of 933 females for every 1,000
males and the high rate of preventable maternal deaths, with one woman
dying in childbirth every five minutes.

Key International Actors
India claims that its growing economic power should give it more clout
in global diplomacy, seeking a permanent seat on the UN Security
Council and a leading role in the Commonwealth and the Non Aligned
Movement. However, it has yet to show that it can play a serious
global role in pushing for greater adherence to international human
rights standards.

While India has strong economic and strategic ties with the United
States and the European Union, it has refused to engage in
constructive dialogue on its own failures in protecting human rights.
Governments have been reluctant to challenge India in part because
they do not want to risk upsetting relations with an important
economic and trade partner.

India’s regional policies are often determined by strategic concerns
over China’s increasing influence in South Asia, and this often
contributes to decisions by officials to avoid proactive engagement on
human rights issues.

While India has continued peace talks with Pakistan to settle Kashmir
and other disputed issues, it has failed to actively promote democracy
and human rights in response to crises in Sri Lanka, Burma, Bhutan,
and Bangladesh.

India has been engaged in discussions to encourage a political
settlement in Sri Lanka and says it has privately expressed concern
about human rights abuses by government forces. However, India has yet
to urge the government of Sri Lanka to take positive steps to ensure
greater protection of civilians, including agreeing to the deployment
of a United Nations human rights monitoring mission.

Over 100,000 Bhutanese remain refugees in Nepal because of the
Bhutanese government’s discriminatory policies against its citizens of
Nepali origin. In 2007, the United States offered to resettle 60,000
of the refugees, a step which many believe will allow Bhutan to
continue its policy of exclusion. The Indian government has not
publicly encouraged the Bhutanese government to end these
discriminatory polices and allow the repatriation of the refugees.

After the Burmese junta’s brutal crackdown on pro-democracy activists
in September 2007, India simply issued statements calling for a
peaceful settlement of the issue. India at this writing had not used
its military sales and business dealings with the junta to press for
accountability and respect for human rights standards.

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/englishwr2k8/docs/2008/01/31/india17605.htm

Caste politics in India

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Caste is one of the major factors in politics of India. Independent
India has seen intense debates over reverse discrimination, caste-
based quotas and reservations.

According to a report by Human Rights Watch, "Dalits and indigenous
peoples (known as Scheduled Tribes or adivasis) continue to face
discrimination, exclusion, and acts of communal violence. Laws and
policies adopted by the Indian government provide a strong basis for
protection, but are not being faithfully implemented by local
authorities."[1]

Before 1980s

Mahatma Gandhi and B. R. Ambedkar had radically different approaches
to caste esp. over constitutional politics and the status of
"untouchables"[2]. Till the mid-1970s, the politics of independent
India was largely dominated by economic issues and questions of
corruption. But since 1980s, caste has emerged as a major issue[3].

Mandal Commission

Main article: Mandal commission
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandal_commission

The Mandal Commission was established in 1979 by the Janata Party
government under Prime Minister Morarji Desai with a mandate to
"identify the socially or educationally backward"[4]. The Commission
was set up to consider the question of seat reservations and quotas
for people to redress caste discrimination, and used eleven social,
economic, and educational indicators to determine "backwardness." In
1980, the commission's report affirmed the affirmative action practice
under Indian law whereby members of lower castes (known as Other
Backward Classes and Scheduled Castes and Tribes) were given exclusive
access to a certain portion of government jobs and slots in public
universities, and recommended changes to these quotas, increasing them
by 27% to 49.5%. L R Naik, the only Dalit member in the Mandal
Commission refused to sign the Mandal recommendations[5], as he feared
that well-to-do OBCs would corner all the benefits of reservation.

A decade after the commission gave its report, V. P. Singh, the Prime
Minister at the time, tried to implement its recommendations in 1989.
The criticism was sharp and colleges across the country held massive
protests against it. Many alleged that the politicians were trying to
cash on caste-based reservations for purely pragmatic electoral
purposes. Rajiv Goswami, student of Delhi University, threatened self-
immolation in protest of the government's actions. His act further
sparked a series of self-immolations by other college students and led
to a formidable movement against job reservations for Backward Castes
in India.

Votebank politics

The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion
on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute
is resolved. (August 2009)

Many political parties in India have openly indulged in caste-based
votebank politics.

In 1990s, many parties Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP), the Samajwadi Party
and the Janata Dal started claiming that they are representing the
backward castes. Many such parties, relying primarily on Backward
Classes' support, often in alliance with Dalits and Muslims, rose to
power in Indian states[6]. At the same time, many Dalit leaders and
intellectuals started realizing that the main Dalit oppressors were so-
called Other Backward Classes[3], and formed their own parties, such
as the Indian Justice Party. The Congress (I) in Maharashtra long
relied on OBCs' backing for its political success[6]. Bharatiya Janata
Party has also showcased its Dalit and OBC leaders to prove that it is
not an upper-caste party. Bangaru Laxman, the former BJP president
(2001-2002) was a former Dalit. Sanyasin Uma Bharati, former CM of
Madhya Pradesh , who belongs to OBC caste, was a former BJP leader. In
2006 Arjun Singh cabinet minister for MHRD of the United Progressive
Alliance (UPA) government was accused of playing caste politics when
he introduced reservations for OBCs in educational institutions all
around.

In Tamil Nadu, Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (DMK) party rose to power
under the canard of "Brahmin oppression", resulting in reverse
discrimination against the upper caste Brahmins. Many Brahmins have
alleged that Tamil Brahmins (Iyers, Iyengars, etc.) have left the
state, due to a "hostile atmosphere" prevalent against upper castes in
the region[7][8].

Criticism

Back in 1950s, B. R. Ambedkar had criticized the use of caste as a
political plank[9]. He anticipated the limitations of using caste as a
political resource and instead, emphasized on eliminating the concept
of caste from the society.

References

^ "India Events of 2007". Human Rights Watch.
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/englishwr2k8/docs/2008/01/31/india17605.htm.
^ Danny Yee. "Book review of Caste, Society and Politics in India:
From the Eighteenth Century to the Modern Age". http://dannyreviews.com/h/Caste_India.html.
Retrieved 2006-12-11.
^ a b Aditya Nigam. "Caste Politics in India".
http://www.southasianmedia.net/Magazine/Journal/castepolitics_india.htm.
Retrieved 2006-12-11.
^ Bhattacharya, Amit. ""Who are the OBCs?"".
http://www.theotherindia.org/caste/who-are-the-obcs.html. Retrieved
2006-04-19. Times of India, April 8, 2006.
^ "Mandal's True Inheritors". The Times of India. 2006-12-12.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1486250.cms. Retrieved
2006-12-12.
^ a b "Caste-Based Parties". Country Studies US. http://countrystudies.us/india/116.htm.
Retrieved 2006-12-12.
^ Are Brahmins the Dalits of today?
^ 'We Are Like The Jews: Politics apart, Brahmin-bashing is rampant in
literary and cultural worlds too'
^ Dipankar Gupta. "Caste, race, politics".
http://www.india-seminar.com/2001/508/508%20dipankar%20gupta.htm.
Retrieved 2006-12-12.

cogitoergosum

unread,

May 27, 2010, 12:17:52 PM5/27/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-9/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-10/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone/

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/castecast-in-stone-sid-harth/

India Inc no more caste blind; 150 firms profile SC/ST data
27 May 2010, 1818 hrs IST,PTI

Topics:CIISCTata GroupIndia IncST

NEW DELHI: At least 150 companies, including some from the Tata Group,
have started collecting data about their SC/ST employees, as India Inc
is noCorporate leaders' musings on power

more "caste blind", according to a CII paper on affirmative action.

"CII's sponsored Code of Conduct for affirmative action, which commits
the company to no discrimination in its employment policies, has been
signed by 690 companies of which 150 have started collecting data on
SC/ST employees," the paper said.

It said that the Tata firms have committed themselves to a policy of
positive discrimination whereby they will "actively favour" SC/ST
candidates for employment.

"We are convinced that we need to play a pro-active role in inclusive
growth which is in the industry's interest itself," CII President Hari
S Bhartia said.

In his interaction with top industry leaders yesterday, Prime Minister
Manmohan Singh had asked them to reach out to the rural economy and
the underprevileged sections of the society through affirmative
action.

Tata Group companies like Tata Teleservices and New Delhi Power
Limited favour SC/ST candidates in their recruitment, provided they
meet competency threshold and "more importantly show the desire to
learn", the CII compendium on affirmative action said.

It said while the private sector was "caste blind" till early 2007,
the industry responded to the Prime Minsiter's call for a positive
discrimination through the SC/ST communities in their HR policies and
business processes.

The chamber which had set up a Council on Affirmative Action under
chairmanship of Jamshed J Irani is pursuing the agenda under four
major initiatives: Employability, Entrepreneurship, Education and
Employment.

It said the initiatives "have made a difference to the lives of over
37,435 SC/ST youth in all regions of country.

"We wanted to show measurable results," Bhartia Said. The companies
which are involved the vocational training programmes for
underprivileged include Infosys, Thermax, HSBC, Mahindra and Mahindra,
Crompton Greaves, Cummins India, Godrej and Boyce, Forbes Marshall and
Hero Group.

In terms of job preferences, Bannari Amman Apparel has employed only
members of backward class in its weaving unit in Kanchipuram district
in Tamil Nadu. Of 1300 socially disadvantaged women employed with the
company, 65 per cent belong to SC/ST communities.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5981645.cms

cogitoergosum

unread,

May 27, 2010, 5:08:20 PM5/27/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-11/

Centre Studying K'taka, Kerala Models for Muslim Quota
Lucknow | May 27, 2010

Union Minister Salman Khursheed today said the Centre was studying
Karnataka and Kerala models for extending the reservation to backward
Muslims.

"The government is studying Karnataka and Kerala models as these
appear more or less acceptable to all," the Minister of State for
Minority Affairs said.

The Centre was also looking into the recommendations made by Ranganath
and Sachar committees before taking a final decision, Khursheed said.

Karnataka had granted 4% reservation in 1995 and Kerala 12%, the
Minister, here to take part in a party convention, said.

To a question, he said the proposal for a Central Madarsa Board had
been put on hold.

Khursheed said plans were afoot to include 21 more Muslim concentrated
districts of UP in the multi-sectoral development scheme in the 12th
five-year plan.

In the 11th plan, 22 districts benefitted from the scheme, he said.

In all, 90 districts country-wide were benefiting from the scheme, the
Minister said.

On caste-based census, Khursheed said there were no differences in the
party on the issue.

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reservations: jnu

Standard Deviation

A faculty spat over quotas subtracts from JNU’s inclusive ethos
Anuradha Raman

“Some castes are genetically malnourished and so very little can be
achieved in raising them up; and if they are, it would be undoing
excellence and merit.”

—Prof B.N. Mallick, Dept of Life Sciences, Jawaharlal Nehru
University, at the March 31 academic council meeting on reservations
in the faculty

This learned professor would have continued to offer his warped
genetic theories had his comment not been greeted with protests from
other JNU academicians. Prof Kamal A. Mitra Chenoy of the School of
International Studies requested him to pipe down. Other academicians
persuaded vice-chancellor B.B. Bhattacharya, who was presiding over
the meeting, to stop Mallick from speaking.

“It was an unsavoury, sordid meeting of the JNU executive council. It
should have been stewarded better.”Rohan D’Souza, Asst professor

Clearly, there is much heartburn, fissure, and even open defiance in
the faculty over the constitutional provision mandating 22.5 per cent
reservation at the professor and associate professor level for the
scheduled castes, scheduled tribes and the physically handicapped. In
fact, the pro- and anti-quota lobbies have been fighting it out since
the university placed an advertisement in November last year for 149
faculty positions with 22.5 per cent reservation. If events of the
last two months are anything to go by, many at this university, which
has set high standards for debates on inclusiveness and justice, seem
to have abandoned the moral high ground.

At the heart of the debate is the vice- chancellor. Some faculty
members say he has failed in his responsibility of setting a personal
example. “Unfortunately, he is not able to communicate his sentiments
or ideas on the issue effectively,” says Rohan D’Souza, an assistant
professor at JNU’s Centre for Studies in Science Policy. Of faculty
members who were worried the events would reach the media, D’Souza
says, “We had to remind them this is not a police station. Even
cabinet notes make news. We are an educational institution. The public
must know.”

“The academic council could discuss anything —even climate change—
but it can’t overturn the executive council.”P. Sainath, Member,
executive council

Given Bhattacharya’s ambivalence on reservation—amply demonstrated,
faculty members say, in two meetings of the academic council and the
last executive council meeting of April 6—many at the university think
his continuance will thwart any effort to introduce reservations in
the faculty. In fact, the meeting of the executive council—the highest
body in the university—was marked by a vicious debate. It was even
decided to refer the matter to the solicitor-general of India,
prompting executive council member P. Sainath to ask why the highest
legal officer of the country should opine on the administrative
matters of a university, especially when the university had submitted
to the Supreme Court in 2008 that it would implement faculty quotas in
two years.

“We have succeeded in setting right the minutes of the previous
executive council meeting, held in March, that sought to give the
impression that the JNU faculty was opposed to quotas and that it
wanted to seek the solicitor-general’s opinion,” says Prof Daya
Krishna Lobiyal, of the School of Computers & System Sciences. The
truth is that of the 400-odd faculty members, 102 have given in
writing that they support reservation; 33 are opposed to it; the
majority haven’t yet expressed their opinion.

“JNU has submitted on affidavit in the SC that it’s implementing
reservation. We need seek no other view.”Daya Krishan Lobiyal,
Professor, computer sciences

Bhattacharya is abroad and could not be contacted. But that hasn’t
prevented students from seeking an April 20 referendum on whether he
should demit office when his term ends.

In a letter to the vice-chancellor, Sainath had expressed concern that
the academic council even discussed the matter of reservations when
the executive council had already decided to implement quotas three
years ago. “The academic council,” he wrote, “could discuss what it
wanted—climate change, if it wished—but it has no right to overturn a
decision of the executive council.”

The rigmarole of academic and executive council meetings debating
again what an executive council meeting had decided on three years ago
seems like nothing more than a ploy to stall reservations in the
faculty.

“Can anyone be rewarded or punished when the reality today is
different than what was there in the past?”B.N. Mallick, Professor,
life sciences

So much so, the academic council meeting of March 31, at which the
genetic theory of malnourishment and the futility of trying to raise
certain castes was expounded, went on till well past midnight, while
many of those present pressed for a quick decision. Insiders say the
majority was in favour of reservation, but the decision was termed
“inconclusive”, necessitating a legal opinion.

In another tack to the issue, the JNU Teachers Association sought the
opinion of Rajeev Dhawan, a constitutional expert and senior advocate
at the Supreme Court. In his 14-page note to the association, Dhawan
has said the University Grants Commission’s (UGC) guidelines on
reservation, as directed by the Centre, are mandatory, even if they
are described as recommendations; in any event, they require strict,
if not substantial, compliance. Failure to comply, he has said, could
jeopardise the grants JNU receives from the UGC.

As for the guidelines, they are very clear: “Reservation is applicable
to all teaching posts, such as the posts of lecturers, readers,
professors, or, by whatever nomenclature the posts are known....” The
association could well have done without consulting lawyers.

“The Centre has given directions to the UGC and the UGC has passed it
to the universities—they are mandatory.”Rajeev Dhawan, Advocate,
Supreme Court

While the battle over reservations rages, another development had led
to sharp exchanges between executive council members who met on April
6. This was over what some teachers thought were “desperate attempts”
by the vice-chancellor to seek a second term through an hrd ministry
directive that does not bar a vice-chancellor from seeking a second
term. The JNU statute, however, prohibits a second term. There was an
attempt to have the statute amended. That the vice-chancellor presided
over that discussion has raised eyebrows.

“I think if the next meeting and discussions on this matter are to
have any authenticity, any executive council member standing to gain
from such an amendment must recuse himself from the meeting,” says an
executive council member. “This is no special measure, just a normal
ethical practice. Otherwise, the discussion would lack legitimacy and
propriety.”

Many academicians say that all they can do is openly lament about the
plummeting ethics and standards in this once prestigious university.

Filed In:

Authors: Anuradha Raman
Tags: Jawaharlal Nehru University|Quota- Reservations|Education
Section: National

May 15, 2010 01:35 PM

9 I was shocked to read the opening quotation attributed to me “Some
castes are genetically malnourished and so very little can be achieved
in raising them up; and if they are, it would be undoing excellence
and merit” in this article. I NEVER, EVER made the statement, nor do I
subscribe to such irrational and unsubstantiated views. I am unaware
of its source and its authenticity. Also, I completely fail to
understand the motive it being attributed to me, particularly when the
reporter, Ms. Anuradha Raman, was not even present in the referred
Academic Council Meeting being attended by about one hundred invitees.
The readers at large and I in particular should know the truth. I
sincerely hope and look forward that OUTLOOK brings out the reality
without further delay.

One may ask why is this delay in my response. Honestly, I thought, the
report was a genuine mistake by OUTLOOK. In my opinion Organization/
Institution (Media/OUTLOOK and Educational Institute/JNU in this case)
are larger than an individual (the reporter, Ms. Raman and myself, in
this case). Therefore, past one month, ever since the article was
published, I had several exchange of notes with the OUTLOOK requesting
them to rectify their error in their own way respecting both the
parties (myself and OUTLOOK) honour and credentials. However, now
after publication of four issues of OUTLOOK not carrying any such
statement, I am convinced that OUTLOOK does not even care to publish
at least my view (above paragraph) on the wrong statement attributed
to me. Is it freedom of speech or big brother attitude of OUTLOOK to
falsely and baselessly defame an individual (myself)?
B N MALLICK
New Delhi, India
May 15, 2010 11:36 AM

8 I guess there are plenty of B.N Mallicks among the Indian academia
and intelligentsia. Coming from mostly upper caste households, they
harbour deep-seated prejudice and contempt against dalits and backward
caste students and colleagues, whom they look upon as some sort of
inferior people, genetically handicapped from receiving higher
education. Ironically, they are ready to distort scientific theories
in order to "prove" that lower caste people have no potential for
advanced studies in science and humanities. With so many closet
racists around us, the future of Indian academia looks bleak indeed.
Kalobaran Singh
Kolkata, India

May 01, 2010 10:59 AM
7 These knocker-walas (aka RSS, ABVP) have polluted an excellent
institution like JNU. They are like Taliban and should be banned from
all campuses.
V.N.Venugopal
New Delhi, India

Apr 23, 2010 07:30 PM
6 It's mere stupidity for this Govt to even think of handicapping this
madrassa from breeding more and more intellectual terrorists, who
ultimately will end up cheerleading the current regime by hook or
crook.
Narayan
Zurich, Switzerland

Apr 23, 2010 01:17 AM
5 The two-faced JNU scoundrels come out in numbers when it is their
private club that has to let the "riff-raff" in! What is that they say
about people who live in glass houses again?
Adi
XXXXX, USA

Apr 20, 2010 02:31 PM
4 Prof B.N. Mallick's comment is very surprising....difficult to
believe ! After Charles Darwin’s The Origin of Species was published
in 1859, the British philosopher Herbert
Spencer immortalized natural selection in the
phrase “survival of the fittest,” one of the most misleading
descriptions in the history of science and one that has been embraced
by social Darwinists ever since, applying it inappropriately to racial
theory, national politics, and economic doctrines.
If biological evolution in nature, and market capitalism in society,
were really founded on and sustained by nothing more than a winner-
take-all strategy, life on earth would have been snuffed out hundreds
of millions of years ago and market capitalism would have collapsed
centuries ago !!
O P SUMAN
new delhi, India

Apr 18, 2010 11:02 AM
3 Common sense and a degree of articulation are all that are required
in the field of humanities. Thats why reservations are not going to
lower whatever standards JNU has. But there are studies indicating
that SC/STs are less likely to embrace left ideology. No wonder
progressive JNU professors are agitating.
Vishwanath Rao
Bangalore, India

Apr 17, 2010 07:16 PM
2 BAN ALL RESERVATIONS ( INCLUDING TO PARLIAMENT )!
CELEBRATE LIFE!
Male unblocked
Chennai, India

Apr 17, 2010 02:38 PM
1 Lets thank the politicians, including the "honest" Manmohan Singh,
for pushing us into this caste politics. No insitution is able to rise
above it.
Dinesh Kumar
Chandigarh, India

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?265074

National / Opinion Polls Magazine | Mar 29, 2010

Outlook-MDRA opinion poll

68% Muslim Women Say They Will Support The Reservation Bill Even If It
Does Not Have A Quota For Them

Are you aware of the Women's Reservation Bill passed in the Rajya
Sabha?
Yes 57.7
No 42.3

Do you think reservation of seats for women is a good move?
Yes 71.4
No 27.4
Don't Know 1.2

Does the bill make you feel that you can stand in an election now?
Yes 61.2
No 29.5
Don't Know 9.3

Should there be reservation within reservation for OBC/ Muslim women?
Yes 64.5
No 29.9
Don't Know 5.6

Are political parties/Muslim MPs taking advantage of you to block the
bill?
Yes 64.7
No 22.8
Don't Know 12.5

What factors lie behind the Muslim woman’s negligible presence in
Indian politics?
Islamic norms 28
Muslim men 25.5
Lack of education and poverty 20.8
Muslim clergy 13.1
Not interested in politics 7.7
Other 4.9

After the bill, will Muslim men permit Muslim women to step into
politics?
Yes 64.7
No 26.1
Don't Know 9.2

Do you think non-Muslims will vote for Muslim women candidates?
Yes 66.8
No 24.7
Don't Know 8.5

What is the most important political demand you would have as a
woman?
Better social status 44.2
Gender equality 31.9
Economic empowerment 23.7
Other 0.2

Will rich Muslim women corner seats in the Lok Sabha and state
assemblies after the passing of the bill?
Yes 67.2
No 21.4
Don't Know 11.4

Muslim male MPs are saying that Muslim women will not be able to take
advantage of reservation. Do you agree?
Yes 52.5
No 36.1
Don't Know 11.4

Should Muslims get a special quota in jobs as suggested by the
Ranganath Mishra Commission Report?
Yes 60.4
No 22.6
Don't Know 17

Methodology Outlook-MDRA held a poll of Muslim women between 18 and 60
years in Delhi, Hyderabad, Calcutta, Lucknow and Mumbai on March
16-17. Sample size: 518; margin of error +/- 4.30%

All figures in percentage

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264747

National Magazine | Mar 29, 2010

Sandipan Chatterjee
“Women’s reservation is also a victory for Muslim women.”

Farzana Choudhury, CPI councillor, Calcutta
reservation Bill: Muslim women

A Veil Is Lifted

Muslim women representatives are all for the reservation bill
Anuradha Raman, Pushpa Iyengar, John Mary, Madhavi Tata, Dola Mitra
PRINT Share COMMENTS

Through the tumultuous week leading to the passage of the Women’s
Reservation Bill in the Rajya Sabha, the Yadav troika of Mulayam
Singh, Laloo and Sharad had made it a point to focus on “the thousands
of hapless Muslim women who would not benefit” from it. The argument,
of course, is that if the bill becomes codified law, poor Muslim women
and those from other backward classes would be left behind, ignored as
the political space in Parliament and state assemblies gets usurped by
the rapacious ‘bahu-beti-parkati’ brigade.

And you couldn’t blame them, for the threat of losing nearly 181 seats
in the Lok Sabha and 1,370-odd seats in state assemblies loomed large.
While they shouted and obstructed Parliament functioning, their
equally vociferous charges were being bundled out of the Rajya Sabha,
a spectacle closely chronicled by the media. From all accounts, all
these men were speaking on behalf of the countless women who had no
voice.

As the votaries and the naysayers debate the bill on the now familiar
caste/religious community lines, what about the women themselves from,
say, the Muslim community? Do Muslim women aspiring for a role in
public life want a separate quota? And if so, does it have to conform
to the same philosophy which guided reservations for scheduled castes/
tribes and other backward classes? Does it make sense to speak of a
sub-quota?

Well, Outlook spoke to some elected representatives among Muslim women
and they were hardly amused at how they are being used as shields by
political leaders opposed to the bill. Most of them said the concerns
expressed have to be debated, but “let us take the first step”. As
senior Congress leader and Rajya Sabha MP Mohsina Kidwai says, “Don’t
speak for us. And don’t divide us. Let us speak for ourselves.”

“What have these men who oppose it done for women in their own
parties?”
Najma Heptullah, Rajya Sabha MP, BJP

Most of the women are not oblivious to the fact that despite 62 years
of free democracy, political space remains a scarce resource. “As for
the men expressing concern on our behalf, how many of them have
actually worked towards ensuring our participation?” asks Najma
Heptullah, now Rajya Sabha MP from the BJP which played a crucial role
in the passage of the bill.

Kidwai and her sister MPs are aware of their dismal numbers in
Parliament and assemblies. As the accompanying infographic shows,
their presence ranges between none and three. While the Muslim
community is a coveted votebank for the Yadav troika, what of the
women? Do they have a voice? In the present Lok Sabha, there are three
Muslim women—all from political families. It’s the same pattern in the
Rajya Sabha. Their numbers have averaged between 3-5 in both houses in
the last 14 years.

The first step towards making women baghidars (partners) in governance
was taken in the Panchayati Raj Bill in 1994, which made provisions
for a 33 per cent reservation of women in the three tiers of local
governance. That was at the executive level where women took
decisions. Women sarpanches have now become common even among the most
patriarchal societies. The Women’s Reservation Bill, on the other
hand, is seen as filling a crucial gap in legislatures—at the Centre
and the state—to make allowance for 50 per cent of the population to
have a say in the decision-making process.

Some of the women from the zilla parishads are now looking at the bill
as a political ladder to state assemblies, and from there to
Parliament. Can they aspire for something bigger? Safia Khan, the
zilla pramukh from Alwar, Rajasthan, says it is natural for women too
to desire for higher political positions. Bader Sayeed, AIADMK MLA and
the lone Muslim woman in the Tamil Nadu assembly, is a bit more
impatient, “Quotas or no quotas for Muslims can wait, and be decided
by the powers that be. Let Muslim women voters come out in big numbers
to vote first before the issue of quota comes up. When they do that,
the feeling will seep in that today I can vote and tomorrow I can even
stand for elections. So I say, let’s take power, grab power as a first
step.”

“The bill, in its present form, won’t help. I’m from a backward
caste...but not all women are.”
Tabassum Hasan, BSP MP, Kairana

Still, there are also women who think the bill has to be debated
first, before being passed. Tabassum Hasan of the BSP says there will
be an actual power shift only with the entry of women from backward
classes and communities like hers. “The bill, in its present form,
does not help. I am from a backward caste but not all women are
backward,” she reasons. Tabassum fought from Kairana on a seat held by
her husband for more than 22 years. She finds nothing unusual in women
from political families aspiring for political office. “If a
bureaucrat’s son or an architect’s son takes to his father’s work,
does anyone object? Why single out the political class?” she asks.

Tabassum, like others, is echoing the sentiments of her political boss
Mayawati. But she is not alone. Both Yasmeen Sultana, a corporator
from Hyderabad and representing the Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen
(MIM), and Mallika Begum from the Congress feel reservations will
benefit only upper-caste and rich women who can afford to spend crores
in an election. Both of them assert that it makes sense to introduce a
quota within this quota for Muslim and OBC women. Only then can
elections be fought on an equal footing. Mallika Begum is categorical
that the bill will hit the progress of Muslim women unless the
government acts to formally reserve seats for them.

“Unless there is reservation, there’s no way women will be elected to
Parliament....”
Mausam Noor, Congress MP, Malda

On the other hand, Mausam Noor, Congress MP from red bastion Bengal,
says there is no provision for a sub-quota in a secular country. “I
represent Malda constituency in West Bengal where the population is a
mixed one with scheduled castes, Muslims and Hindus in equal number.
But I am aware that unless there is reservation, there is no way women
can come up.” Malda has traditionally been a Congress bastion (with
one exception when the CPI(M) broke Mausam’s uncle A.B.A. Ghani Khan
Chaudhury’s sway) but is not critical of the provision for rotation in
the seats.

“Even the Constitution says no separate Muslim reservation. Why make a
fuss?”
Mafuja Khatun, CPI(M) MLA, Kumarganj, WB

Others like Mafuja Khatun, a CPI(M) MLA from West Bengal, says, “I’ll
support the bill even if it doesn’t have a quota for Muslim women.
Even the Constitution does not permit separate Muslim reservation.
Then why make a fuss about it?”

Fuss over it or not, numbers do tell a dismal story. Even in
progressive Kerala with its high literacy levels, only one out of the
total seven women in the 140-member assembly is a Muslim. As K.
Saleekha, CPI(M) MLA from Sreekrishnapuram in Palakkad district, puts
it, “Religious orthodoxy and the bigotry of the clerics are to blame
for the poor representation of Muslim women in state politics. If the
bill is passed all parties, including the Indian Union Muslim League,
would have to field women in the reserved constituencies...and those
who still renege on the legislative commitment would stand exposed.”

In the Maharashtra state legislative assembly, convened in October
2009 after a fiercely fought election, there is no Muslim woman MLA.
There is a Muslim woman mlc (legislative council) though, Fauzia Khan,
who is now a minister of state. Khan doesn’t boast of a typical
political family background, instead she was handpicked by ncp leader
R.R. Patil and groomed by Sharad Pawar to be an mlc thanks to her
grasp of women and education issues. But the point to note is that
even she was not elected—as an mlc, she was nominated.

“Don’t speak for us women... and don’t divide us. Let us speak for
ourselves.”
Mohsina Kidwai, RS MP, Congress

Within the state Congress now, there is some degree of contrition that
assembly elections did not bring forth a single Muslim woman into the
Maharashtra legislature. Some effort is being made now to see if
attempts were made to give Muslim and OBC women tickets, even whether
women from these communities had approached the party for
representation. Sources say the party high command has asked for
details.

Meanwhile, thanks to the 33 per cent reservation for women in local
government bodies, the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (bmc), the
country’s largest and richest civic body with 227 councillors and an
annual budget of Rs 17,000 crore, now has 90 women sitting and
debating in the grand central hall. Of these, 12 are Muslim women,
elected from Muslim-dominated areas of Mumbai.

Waquarunissa Ansari, corporator/ councillor elected from Umarkhadi,
says the bill should be passed. “I don’t think we need reservation
within reservation. It’s the quality of the women that matters, not
just the caste or religion,” she says. On the other hand, Asma Shaikh,
corporator elected from Bainganwadi (Govandi), is seeking a quota
within quota. “I am here only thanks to the reservation in urban self-
government bodies. We Muslims get elected only from Muslim areas
because we are less educated than others. We may not stand a chance in
general areas....also, the community and families believe that if we
work alongside other women, we too will become modern.”

It’s difficult to predict the course of events once the bill is put to
vote in the Lok Sabha. But for many women, the Upper House passing it
itself has been a first step towards equality. With time, they say
they will be able to assert themselves. And reservation holds the key
for their assertion.

(Anuradha Raman with Pushpa Iyengar, John Mary, Madhavi Tata, Dola
Mitra and the Mumbai bureau)

Filed In:

Mar 26, 2010 04:44 PM
16 Liberalism as I understand stands for fundamental ideas: human
rights, constitutions, liberal democracy, free/fair elections, free
trade, secularism, and the market economy.

John Locke, who is often regarded as the founder of liberalism as a
distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural
rights and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should
replace autocratic government, that rulers were subject to the consent
of the governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right
to life, liberty, and property.

The American and the French Revolutions used liberal philosophy to
justify the violent overthrow of autocratic rule. In the 19th century
liberal governments were established in nations across Europe and
North America. In the 20th century liberal democracies triumphed in
two world wars and have survived major ideological challenges from
fascism and communism.

Now it is facing the same challenges from the religious fundamentalism
fanned by organizations that are supported by states for their own
political agendas. US did that in Afghanistan to oust Russians which
has now spread to rest of the world. For Pakistani establishment it
has become a convenient instrument of state polcy in its own agenda in
the sub-continent in particular. The oil money from the Gulf openly
funds the extreme Islamic philosophy of the Wahabism and the rule of
Sharia.

The liberal democracies of the West and India are in practise
Plutocracies - rule by the wealthy, or power provided by that wealth.
In a plutocracy, the degree of economic inequality is high while the
level of social mobility is low.

So we see in J&K, as well as in India too, the liberal concepts are
systematically destroyed while the hapless and poor continuously
harassed and persecuted winked on by the ruling plutarchy.
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom

Mar 25, 2010 08:09 PM
15 'NO liberal voice is speaking out inclusing the so called women
political leaders.'

Liberas are speaking.Liberal Secular Congress and equally Liberal
Secular Abdullah's National Congress are Piolting the bill .
ram prasn haryanvi
Ambala Cantt, India

Mar 25, 2010 05:34 PM
14 JK govt is passing a law disenfranchising women who are marrying
outside JK.

NO liberal voice is speaking out inclusing the so called women
political leaders. Only the BJP has spoken against it

What a shame.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom

Mar 24, 2010 04:01 PM
13 Gayatri

Thanks ... but let me tell you ... I came to UK to get my Masters,
went back to India and found a mediocre job (only on a relative's
recommendation - sifarish) in Mumbai (then Bombay in 70's) ... but to
my utter frustration was treated like an outcaste by fellow colleagues
being a UP wallah. So, I went to Delhi and sought work in a govt deptt
where there was no work to do and Babus virtually slept whole day ...

These were the reason why I left India and sought a sort of economic
refuge in UK where I carved out a brilliant career in IT/Finance
despite being an Indian ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom

Mar 24, 2010 03:04 PM
12 vijay aggarwal.

mayawati is corrupt and her language is limited ,

she is fat, boorish, gauche and awful to look at.

what next- up has a poor future if dalits get to decide
its leadership. you are fortunate you moved to britain.

up should be devided. one 100 percent dalit and muslim
state. the other for educated and savvy other castes.

dalits are behaveing like blacks in the o.j.simpson trial.
a bad lot.
gayatri devi
delhi, India

Mar 24, 2010 12:55 PM
11 >>> So what's your problem?

... the problem is visible for every one to see in the dalit state of
UP ... not among my "clan" ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom

Mar 24, 2010 09:01 AM
10 I on't know how authors came to this conclusion:

But for many women, the Upper House passing it itself has been a first
step towards equality. With time, they say they will be able to assert
themselves. And reservation holds the key for their assertion.

I think both men and women of the OBC, Muslim and SC/ST communities
have a valid concern. We have had Indiras and Benazir ruling South
Asia way before America can find a woman candidate to run for
president. I don't think gender equality in South Asia is caste/
community/religion-blind.

When we became independent, we thought we would all progress but then
60 yrs later society is as petrified as ever. It wasn't all that rosy
for those who did not carry upper-caste hindu passport; men or women.

In short, I believe increasing women's political representation is
very critical and reservations are essential but we should just move
to proportional representation and avoid all these sugar-coating non-
sense of unity-in-diversity. Every Indian is made aware of what caste/
community/group he or she belongs to way before he/she leave high
school (lot sooner in the rural areas) and to ignore it during the
crucial social engineering undertakings like this is oxymoron.
hitesh brahmbhatt
san diego, United States

Mar 24, 2010 08:33 AM
9 >> a corrupt Dalit leader who adorns herself with fine silk and
diamonds, spends thousands of crores of tax payers's money on her
statues, ugly monuments and her "haveli" in posh Lucknow, while the
dalits of UP live in the wretched filth unfit for humans ...

So what's your problem? Accepting donation is not crime. Let Dalits
decide if Mayawati remains their leader. She did not become the chief
minister on yours or your clan's vote.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
Mar 23, 2010 08:51 PM

8 >>> UK is in urgent need of putting an Equality Bill in place to
fight such discriminatory tendencies. The British island has been
plagued with the virus of inequality, discrimination and
untouchability thanks to people who have emigrated to that country.

Indeed, a "shining illustration" of prejudice, agnostic casteism and
just sheer apologetic balderdash ... in defence of a corrupt Dalit
leader who adorns herself with fine silk and diamonds, spends
thousands of crores of tax payers's money on her statues, ugly
monuments and her "haveli" in posh Lucknow, while the dalits of UP
live in the wretched filth unfit for humans ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom

Mar 23, 2010 06:14 PM
7 To
Vijay Agarwal,
Northampton, United Kingdom

Your pointed reference saying "Mayawati is one good example how an
unscrupulous politician in India can amass a vast amount of wealth and
property beguiling poor and downtrodden on religion/caste based vote-
bank politics by just sheer bluff and fraud ..." too is a shinning
illustration of prejudice marked by arrogance of the supremacists. And
this leads me to guess why UK is in urgent need of putting an Equality
Bill in place to fight such discriminatory tendencies. The British
island has been plagued with the virus of inequality, discrimination
and untouchability thanks to people who have emigrated to that
country. They did not forget to carry their baggage, which is unfit
for liberal world in the western hemisphere.

Immediately after Mayawati resigned as the Chief Minister following
Taj corridor controversies, I recall, learned Ajay Agarwal, a
government advocate addressed a press conference and declared he would
file FIR against the ex-CM as he know many secrets of the CM. He was
appointed by Mayawati as government lawyer, who forgot the very
fundamental code of conduct of his profession. Communication between
doctor and his patient, a lawyer and his client are privileged
communications and are not admissible in Evidence Act against them.
But no lawyer or Bar association or any sane person denounced the
lawyer. IS it morality or ethics of the lawyer?

The Allahabad High Court has yesterday rejected a public petition for
CBI enquiry against Mayawati. Let Income Tax Department conduct
enquiry and come out with findings of the currency notes of the
garland she was given by the party men on the 15th March.

Sukhram Sharma, the Telecom Minister under Narshuma Rao was raided by
CBI and 3-4 crores of rupees in cash were recovered from his puja room
alone. One reputed journalist had disclosed then in the columns of THE
TELEGRAPH, Calcutta that media was shy to highlight at all that the
raid brought to light a huge box containing Hindustan latex too in the
puja room. Certainly in an era marked by raging AIDS the deities did
not need them.

Narshima Rao enjoyed his full tenure as Prime Minister by bribing MPs
e. g. Shibu Soren and two other tribal leaders were incarcerated in
jail. How lovely and fair the high moral standard of Indians per se.
Sanket Biswas
Kolkata, India

Mar 22, 2010 05:28 PM
6 While talking about the Woman's Reservation Bill the media by &
large has glossed over, obfuscated, supressed the following :

* The Woman's Resevation Bill is an Constitution Amendment Bill &
needs two third majority in both Chambers of the Parliament.

* Nomally Bills are first introduced in the Lower House & then sent to
the Upper House for passing. Even if the Upper House do not approve
the bill, it will be deemed to have been passed by the Parliament if
the Lower House vote & pass it for the second time. It need not go to
the Upper House again. It is obvious that in converting a bill in to
an Act , role of the Upper House is that of a moderator & not
decisive.

* Being passed by the Parliament majority of the state assemblies must
pass/approve the the bill for it to be signed by the President &
become an act.

In this case for obvious reason the ruling party did not even
introduce bill in the in the Lower House. In a move that smacks of a
little trickery they suddenly introduced the bill in the Upper House
got two third of the votes - that too after evicting about a dozen MPs
with the help Marshals on the pretext that they are creating a ruckus
in the well. MPs moving in to the well & creating a noise happens
every day in both housed of the Parliament & one of the seniormost
member of this Cabinet is famous for her expertise in snatching &
tearing off parliamentary papers. But one cannot recall an occassion
when MPs bodily lifted by Marshals MPs out of either of the Houses.

So when media without exception went to town with huge raazmataaz
about the 'historic' Women's Reservation Bill has been 'passed'
without contextualising it- at best they are telling the nation half-
truth, at worst lies.

The Congress Party in it's first year of the second term has been
performing abyssmally. What with 18% price rise of essentials
( knowlegeble people will tell you that's almost 30% on the ground)
it's feeling the heat even in their blissful isolation with a
hopelessly people-insensitive government head.

Mrs. Gandhi had to provide the government with succour with some smoke-
screen & diversion. The Women's Reservation Bill is the vehicle.

The sad part of this sculduggery is that media across the board -
possibly willingly - went along in this devious manouvre intsread of
providing proper perspective of this news event.
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India

Mar 22, 2010 02:33 PM
5 The general upliftment of Muslims from poverty, religious
bewilderment and nescience can only come from leaders in their own
community. Just as among the Dalits, there are some good sincere ones
among Muslims too but they are either bogged down by incessant party
politics, hardliner antediluvian mullah/moulvis, or their own self-
interest and greed ...

Mayawati is one good example how an unscrupulous politician in India
can amass a vast amount of wealth and property beguiling poor and
downtrodden on religion/caste based vote-bank politics by just sheer
bluff and fraud ...

However, reservation for women in the national legislatures without
minority/dalit quotas is an encouraging step in the right
direction ... but, instead of getting dissipated by the vote-bank
party politics, how does it empower the fair sex especially among the
Muslim community and the Dalits would be interesting to watch ...
Vijay Agarwal
Northampton, United Kingdom

Mar 21, 2010 01:03 PM
4 60 years have passed and the indian muslim is where he was
at that time.

he or she is a confused person.

sometimes the maulvis he knows say that he is a loyal indian and he
considers india to be a home.

at other times he is told that he is being discriminated
against, and that he will never get justice.

when members of his community are caught breaking the law
even in terrorist cases he is told that this is a conspiracy
by the evil hindu brahmin or bania.

liberalism, equal rights are taboo. if sania mirza plays
tennis in short skirts then the entire muslim community
is on edge. the length of their pyjamas, the right size
of their beards, and whether children should be allowed
to see cartoons on tv is a point of controversey.

yasmin alibahai-brown has written about the absurdities
of muslim dilemnas on this.

in sudan a english teacher about 60 years of age was arrested for
nameing a teddy bear mohammed , at the request
of her class.she was saved from death because a british
muslim delegation arrived in khartoum to plead for her.
they returned back bringing the confused teacher home, and
were photographed smileing in triumph . what a lot of crazy
people.

in my travels in india i found that many muslims were
liveing in a isolated island, with weird ideas.

what ever the maulvis of islam say, everyone includeing
muslims themselves are confused. are muslims indian, pakistani,s or
people from another world, with whom we have no common values.

this is what europeans ask themselves.
gayatri devi
delhi, India

Mar 20, 2010 11:46 PM
3 It seems a majority of Muslim women legislators do not support
"quota within a quota". That is good. A Muslim woman corporator said,
"We Muslims get elected only from Muslim areas because we are less
educated than others." The answer to that is simple. Get educated!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Mar 20, 2010 02:50 PM
2 Bravo! Now women are being ghettoed thanks to Useless Political
Asses(UPA)govt. Why not 23 per cent for prostitutes and eunuchs. Are
they not being discriminated.
vishal malhotra
Dehradun, India

Mar 20, 2010 01:47 PM
1 "Muslim women’s exuberance over women’s bill is like ‘Decorated
Broom’ which looks good in Up-market Malls but ‘Floored’ as soon as
entered the household"
Rajneesh Batra
New Delhi, India

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264746

View From UK

Universal Cure

A way to ensure that the top universities are no longer the enclaves
of the privileged: working class children could feel that they have
just as much right to be there as the scions of the posh.
George Monbiot

None of them work. The elaborate schemes supposed to widen access to
the UK’s top universities - the summer schools, the mentoring
programmes, the taster days, the bursaries and scholarships - have
failed. The proportion of poor students these universities accept has
fallen over the past 15 years.

A new report by the Office for Fair Access (OFFA) shows that
intelligent children from the 20% of richest homes in England are
seven times more likely to attend a high-ranking university than
intelligent children from the poorest 40% (1). In the mid-1990s they
were six times more likely (2). The better the college, the worse it
becomes. The Higher Education Statistics Agency publishes the figures
for individual universities. I’ve just been through the spreadsheets.
In 2002-3, when the data begin (3), 5.4% of students at Cambridge and
5.8% of students at Oxford came from “low participation
neighbourhoods”(4). By 2008-9, the proportion had fallen to 3.7% and
2.7%(5). This has happened despite thirteen years of a Labour
government which listed its priorities as “education, education,
education”, and tens of millions spent - particularly by Oxford and
Cambridge - on outreach and encouragement.

People of my social background (upper middle class, public school)
dominate every economic sector except those - such as sport and hard
science - in which only raw ability counts. Through networking,
confidence, unpaid internships, most importantly through our
attendance at the top universities, we run the media, politics, the
civil service, the arts, the City, law, medicine, big business, the
armed forces, even, in many cases, the protest movements challenging
these powers. The Milburn report, published last year, shows that 45%
of top civil servants, 53% of top journalists, 32% of MPs, 70% of
finance directors and 75% of judges come from the 7% of the population
who went to private schools(6). Even the beneficiaries should be able
to see that this system is grotesque, invidious and socially
destructive.

Children from privileged homes begin to creep ahead of their peers
long before school begins: the link between background and attainment,
OFFA says, is evident at 22 months(7). But schooling widens the gap.
By the time they sit GCSEs, the children of higher professionals are
nearly three times as likely to get five good grades as the children
of people in routine work(8). Fewer working class children take A-
levels and those who do get lower scores. Pupils at private schools
account for some 15% of entries but take around 30% of A grades(9).

But this isn’t just about grades. Even when children from poorer homes
do well, they are less likely to apply to the top universities. Going
by grades alone, there’s a shortfall of some 4500 state sector pupils
who should, all else being equal, enrol on the UK’s top courses(10).
These students aren’t applying partly because their schools don’t
encourage them to do so; partly because they feel that the top
universities aren’t for the likes of them.

Private schools, by comparison, groom their pupils for Oxford and
Cambridge. They pass from the quadrangles of Eton to the quadrangles
of Oxford with a sense of entitlement. (Many of them spend the rest of
their lives nannied in quadrangles, at the Bar and the Palace of
Westminster. They then instruct everyone else to stand on their own
two feet).

So what is to be done? The Offa report is coherent and persuasive -
until it starts making recommendations. It documents the utter failure
of existing measures to redress the problem. It makes the startling
observation that “there is no clear correlation” between the efforts a
university makes to widen admission and the results of those
efforts(11). It then proposes a radical and dynamic programme of, er,
more of the same. More summer schools, more outreach, better bursaries
and scholarships, more “promoting good practice”, even though we know
this good practice doesn’t work. These complex and expensive measures
are necessary, it says, because “the solution was never going to be
short or simple.”(12) It is wrong.

There is a short and simple solution, first proposed 11 years ago by
the journalist Peter Wilby(13). Oxford and Cambridge, he suggested,
should offer places to the top one or two pupils from every school,
regardless of grades. The next-best universities would offer places to
the pupils who come third and fourth, and so on downwards. There would
be some adjustment for the size of the school, but the brutal logic
holds.

Sit back for a moment and let the implications sink in. The system
wouldn’t be perfectly fair, because of the advantages privileged
children enjoy from the beginning, though it would be a heck of a lot
fairer than the current arrangement. Instead of scrambling to insert
their children into the best state schools, pushy parents would seek
to enrol them in the worst. As Nick Davies’s investigation of the
schools crisis in the Guardian showed, the overwhelming reason why
some schools fail is that “the bright middle-class children are being
siphoned off into private schools and a minority of state schools …
The system fails because it is segregated.”(14) Under Wilby’s
programme, no longer.

Private schools would collapse overnight: the last place you’d want to
put your child is where other ambitious parents have sent theirs. The
top universities would no longer be enclaves of the privileged:
working class children would feel that they have just as much right to
be there as the scions of the posh. The middle class flight to good
catchment areas would screech into reverse as wealthy families extract
themselves from their comfortable ghettos. Social mixing begins both
in and out of school.

It is not quite the end of the matter. There would still be a need for
outreach programmes, taster days and bursaries, but this time they
would work, as bright students of all backgrounds would know that they
stood an equal chance. There would still be a need for Sure Start and
other means of tackling disadvantage from birth. Rich parents would
still seek to help their children get to the top by buying them extra
tuition. There are two answers to this. The expensive one is to offer
extra tuition, free of charge, to everyone. The cheap one is to dock
the positions of those who receive it.

Wilby’s revolutionary idea was greeted by government and educational
reformers with a momentous thunderclap of … silence. Governments can
do what they like to help the disadvantaged, as long as they don’t
threaten the privileges of the ruling classes. This programme has not
been adopted for one obvious reason: it would work. The far safer
course is the one promoted in the OFFA report: wring your hands, spend
some money, but for God’s sake don’t solve the problem, unless you
want the most powerful classes in open revolt.

When this idea was first published, the government could at least
claim that it was trying something else. The something else didn’t
work. Let’s make the real solution impossible to ignore.

www.monbiot.com

References:

1. Martin Harris, April 2010. Released May 2010. What more can be done
to widen access to highly selective universities? Office for Fair
Access.

2. ibid.

3. http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=2&id=32&Itemid=141

4. http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php/content/view/455/141/

5. http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1684&Itemid=141

6. The Panel on Fair Access to the Professions, 2009. Unleashing
Aspiration. Figure 1f, p18.

7. Martin Harris, ibid. Page 18.

8. 76% vs 28%. Page 19.

9. Page 20.

10. Page 24.

11. Page 34.

12. Page 9.

13. Peter Wilby, 26th March 1999. Give every school an Oxbridge place.
The New Statesman.

14. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/sep/15/nickdavies

Filed In:

Authors: George Monbiot
Tags: Education|Quota- Reservations|UK
Section: International|Society
Subsection: Opinion

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?265602

cogitoergosum

unread,

May 27, 2010, 7:48:40 PM5/27/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-11/

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-12/

GoM to decide on caste-based census
NEW DELHI: With consensus eluding, the government on Wednesday decided
to set up a Group of Ministers (GoM) to take a view on the
controversial issue of whether there should be a caste-based census.

The Union Cabinet, chaired by Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh,
discussed the issue over which various ministers are divided, official
sources said.

The Cabinet then decided that a GoM should take a view on the issue,
they said. The GoM is likely to be headed by Finance Minister Mr
Pranab Mukherjee.

The Cabinet, which first discussed the issue at length on May 4, has
been divided on it. While Law Minister Mr Veerappa Moily and some
others are pushing for caste-based census, Home Minister Mr P
Chidambaram has reservations on it.

The Home Ministry is understood to have opined that the present
exercise of enumeration should go on and caste could be included later
at the time of taking biometric samples.

Several political parties, including Samajwadi Party, RJD and JD(U),
have been pressing for caste-based census but the government is moving
cautiously on the politically-sensitive matter.

The issue had figured prominently in the just-concluded Budget Session
of Parliament when the Prime Minister had assured the members that
government would take their views into account before deciding on the
matter.

Political parties, including the Samajwadi Party, RJD and JD-U have
been strongly demanding inclusion of caste in the census exercise.

The Prime Minister, during his press conference on Monday, said the
decision would be taken by the Cabinet.

“I made a statement in Parliament in which I said that we shall take
into account the views expressed in Parliament by various
sections ...and that I will ask the Cabinet to consider them. That
process is on,” Dr Singh said.

He said “discussion on the issue will take place in the Cabinet and
whatever decision is taken it will be brought before the people.”
Caste-based census was last conducted in the country in the year 1931.
- PTI

http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessline/blnus/14261521.htm

BJP may have second thoughts on caste census?
Neena Vyas

NEW DELHI:The Bharatiya Janata Party seems to be hoping to paper over
its differences with its parent body, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh,
on the issue of recording caste during the ongoing census exercise,
now that the government has put off a decision by asking a Group of
Ministers (GoM) to look into it and give its recommendation.

After having clearly articulated its view during the last days of the
budget session that the BJP favours a caste census — a line opposed to
its decades-old stance against a caste census — it now seems it would
tweak its response based on the government's recommendation.

“We will give our response to the issue of caste-based census after
the government finalises its stance. Till then what we said in
Parliament stands,” said party spokesperson Rajiv Pratap Rudy when
asked to comment on the setting up of a GoM on the issue.

The problem for the BJP arose after the RSS made very clear it was
opposed to a caste-based census. The BJP's stand in Parliament was
against one of the basic RSS projects — uniting Hindus on the basis of
religion and not dividing them by emphasising caste.

During the last days of the budget session, several parties, including
the BJP, spoke in favour of a caste enumeration during the census
exercise, although clearly the BJP, when in government, had preferred
not to record caste during the 2001 census. Both leaders of the
Opposition in the two Houses of Parliament Sushma Swaraj and Arun
Jaitley spoke in favour of a caste-based census, giving the same
argument as Lalu Prasad of the Rashtriya Janata Dal and Mulayam Singh
of the Samajwadi Party that gathering of correct data will help
governments formulate policies that are apt for the situation.

The BJP decided to do what the other parties were doing, and, perhaps,
it had in mind the importance of caste politics in Bihar — due for an
assembly election in a few months — and Uttar Pradesh, where the party
is desperately trying to revive its falling electoral fortunes.

However, the editorial of the May 16 issue of the RSS mouthpiece, The
Organiser, attacked the very idea of enumeration of caste during the
census, describing it as a retrograde step, as the last caste census
was taken in 1931, and strongly opposed since then. “For four decades
after independence national leaders taught us to forget caste,
religion, language and provincialism to develop a national psyche.
India is one, Indians are one. Our only identity is that Indian
nationality.”

The RSS, in fact, said it favoured the view expressed by the Home
Ministry that there would also be “operational difficulties” in caste
enumeration during the census exercise. “The Ministry is right… a
caste census is divisive…” Those critical of the RSS were of the view
that ‘the only identity is the Indian line' was a convenient cover for
the fact that the organisation was basically Brahmanical in its
attitude and approach.

It became clear after this the RSS was less than pleased with the
parliamentary party leadership of the BJP which had quickly embraced
the idea of a caste census out of political opportunism.

For the BJP, it will be helpful if the GoM decides against a caste
census. The BJP can then quietly come back to the path shown by the
RSS in its editorial by not complaining about the government decision.

http://www.thehindu.com/2010/05/28/stories/2010052861571500.htm

Opinion - Editorials

Census and caste

Should the Census of India 2011 be tasked with the collection of caste
data, returning in a sense to the practice of the pre-Independence,
colonial era? Let us start by recognising that the question is
arguable. Opponents of caste enumeration tend to hark back to the
ideals of the freedom struggle and the Constitution, which treat caste
as illegitimate and see Census enumeration of caste as a tool of
‘divide and rule.' By not collecting caste data, the Census, a great
national undertaking, strikes a blow for social equality. Supporters
of caste enumeration tend to argue the opposite, namely that by
collecting data on the caste-inequality link, the Census could become
a promoter of progressive social change, chiefly by strengthening the
case for compensatory discrimination policies across the land. As the
sociologist Nandini Sundar points out, India in the past couple of
decades has entered “a new era of caste relations” and while there has
been heated debate on the political consequences of doing or not doing
caste enumeration in the Census, little thought has been given to “how
this is to be done, if at all; the nature of data generated; the level
and form of tabulations in which data would be useful; who would gain
from this knowledge at different levels; or the concrete ways in which
caste data might or might not help to design government programmes to
offset caste disabilities.”

Whether the collection of caste data, other than for the Scheduled
Castes and the Scheduled Tribes, will be socially divisive or will
help in the quest for equality can be left aside for the purposes of
settling the remit of the forthcoming decennial exercise. The short
answer is that the Census is a great demographic endeavour that must
not be confused with social science field work. As it is meant to
collect observational data, and not information based on the
perceptions of the respondents or self-categorisation, it cannot be
the vehicle for capturing caste-wise population data. Besides, India
is home to a humungous number of sub-castes with nomenclature
variations across regions: aggregating them across villages will be
too complex for the Census to handle. The enumerators, as Union Home
Minister P. Chidambaram has pointed out, lack the sociological
sensitivity to record and classify the population on the basis of
castes and sub-castes. But this shortcoming applies also to the
trainers and indeed to the whole Census system. If backward class
commissions or socio-political movements need up-to-date measurement
of caste and better data on the caste-inequality link, there are other
ways of gaining this information. The government certainly did the
right thing in resisting pressure from some political parties and
regional groupings to task Census 2011 with doing something it just
cannot handle.

http://www.hindu.com/2010/05/07/stories/2010050751481000.htm

Opinion - Letters to the Editor

Caste census

Many argue against the inclusion of caste in census for 2011stating
that this would help perpetuate the caste system. The reasoning is not
correct. Has the non-inclusion of caste in earlier census helped
eradicate it? On the contrary, its inclusion will help in getting
clear data on the socio-economic parameters of various castes. This,
in turn, would help the government to formulate policies to benefit
the deprived lot. The wide social, economic, educational and health
disparities among various groups cannot be wished away by the non-
inclusion of caste in census.

B. Devadas,

Palakkad

One doesn't have to be scared of the so-called ‘caste census.' It is a
reality and that just cannot be wished away. The argument that the
data will give a new lease of life to ‘the horrendous system' will not
wash as the system is very much alive and kicking. Once we have the
numbers in the official survey, the so-called champions of social
justice cannot anymore make unfair demands. The government can
formulate schemes to help those in real need.

I.S. Kanthimathinathan,

Tirunelveli

Caste-based census fulfils more of political motive and less of
welfare motive. Caste-based politics is deep-rooted in India and the
move against a caste-based census will certainly help eliminate the
vexed problem. In a country where more than 26 per cent of the
population lives below the poverty line, welfare schemes should be
aimed at benefiting the economically weaker strata of society and not
any caste or creed.

Sachin Kumar,

Pantnagar

The government should display the same firmness while dealing with
demands for caste-based reservation as these can only entrench the
caste system further.

G.N. Misra,

Dehra Dun

http://www.hindu.com/2010/05/07/stories/2010050751471003.htm

Thackeray ridicules cricketers, opposes caste census
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Rajendra Aklekar, Hindustan Times
Email Author
Mumbai, May 28, 2010
First Published: 01:24 IST(28/5/2010)
Last Updated: 01:25 IST(28/5/2010)

Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray on Thursday ridiculed the Indian
cricketers, saying they became “zeroes” in the Twenty20 World Cup when
they were heroes at the IPL.

“Our players play well during the IPL T20 matches but came a cropper
during the World Cup,” Thackeray told reporters at Matoshree, his
residence in suburban Bandra, after releasing the Sena Diary — a book
containing contact numbers of all party members.

“Why can’t these players play well for their country?” asked
Thackeray.

The Sena chief reiterated that his party would win two Legislative
Council seats in next month’s elections.

He also opposed the caste-based census, saying it was detrimental to
the interest of the country. “Caste-based census would be
detrimental... there would be fissures in the country.”

Thackeray’s stance is in contrast to that of senior leaders of his
party’s 25-year-old ally, the Bharatiya Janta Party (BJP), including
MP Gopinath Munde.

Supporting the caste census, Munde had earlier said it would not
divide people but help estimate actual population of Other Backward
Classes (OBCs) in the country and highlight plight of the poor.

“Caste census will not divide the people but give justice to the poor
and also help estimate the real population of the OBCs.”

Thackeray’s opposition to the BJP’s stand is yet another example of
the widening rift in their views.

The BJP and the Sena also have opposite stands on creation of the
separate state of Vidarbha.

While the Sena is pitching for a united Maharashtra, the BJP has been
a believer of smaller states.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Thackeray-ridicules-cricketers-opposes-caste-census/Article1-549587.aspx

Volume 18 - Issue 05, Mar. 03 - 16, 2001
India's National Magazine

from the publishers of THE HINDU

Table of Contents CENSUS 2001

The head-count and some gaps

Census 2001, which is expected to make significant additions to the
existing data on several counts, raises some controversies too,
particularly in the matter of recording the caste identity of people
belonging to the Scheduled Castes and the Sc heduled Tribes.

V.VENKATESAN
in New Delhi

THE official website of India's Registrar-General and Census
Commissioner (http://www.censusindia.net) claims that the "rich
diversity of the people of India is truly reflected through the
decennial Census, which is one of the basic tools to understand a nd
study India." However, the enumeration in connection with Census of
India 2001, which was undertaken from February 9 to February 28 and
which will be followed by a revisional round from March 1 to March 5,
has raised several questions about the validi ty of this claim.

The significance of Census 2001, the 14th since 1872 and the sixth
since Independence, lies in the fact that it is the first Census of
the 21st century and the third millennium. Will Census 2001 give a
"complete account of the socio-economic development and demographic
health of the ever-burgeoning population of India", as the first press
note issued by the Office of the Registrar-General and Census
Commissioner of India promises?

On the face of it, Census 2001 has not made any radical departure from
the past decennial censuses in the matter of eliciting information
from the people. Thus, when serious questions are raised about some
aspects of Census 2001, they need to be understo od in terms of the
socio-political changes that took place during the past decade.

Among the various aberrations that have come to light since the
launching of the population enumeration on February 9 is the inability
of the enumerators to record accurately the identity of people
belonging to the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Trib es. Under the
Household Schedule, question number 8 requires the enumerator to
record whether the respondent belongs to a Scheduled Caste, and the
name of the Scheduled Caste from the list supplied to him or her. This
list includes only those castes that are declared as Scheduled Castes
in that particular State or Union Territory. As a result, if a
Scheduled Caste respondent migrates from one State to another in
search of employment or livelihood or better career prospects, he or
she is not counted as b elonging to a Scheduled Caste.

Ridiculous though it might look, officials in the Office of the R.G.
and Census Commissioner plead helplessness as they are guided by the
provisions of the Census Act, 1948, as followed over the decades. This
aberration was glaringly evident when Registr ar-General and Census
Commissioner J.K. Banthia met President K.R. Narayanan on February 9
to launch the month-long enumeration drive. The President's
enumerators found that they could not correctly list his caste status
in the form supplied to him, as h is caste, Paravan, is a Scheduled
Caste in Kerala but not in Delhi. Even though Census officials and the
Rashtrapati Bhavan refuse to reveal how the matter was finally sorted
out, under the plea that information collected through the Census is
confidenti al, it is evident that in such cases enumerators have no
option but to leave the column empty and not count the respondent as
belonging to a Scheduled Caste.

Para 67 of the Census Manual (a set of instructions for the
enumerators prepared by the Registrar-General of India) says: "You
have been furnished with a list of the Scheduled Castes/Scheduled
Tribes in relation to your State or Union Territory. Ascertai n if the
person enumerated belongs to a Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe and if
he or she does, write the name of the Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe
under the appropriate question. For a person who is not a member of
any Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe, put a 'dash' (-) under both the
questions 8 and 9."

Para 67.1 goes on to say that if the person (respondent) merely claims
to belong to a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe, but says that he/
she does not belong to any of the notified communities applicable to
the area, as reflected in the list supplied to you, he/she will not be
reckoned as belonging to a Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe."

Worse, Frontline learnt that in a few cases the enumerators, contrary
to the requirement, did not have even the list of Scheduled Castes of
the State where they did the head-count (there is reason to believe
that their number could be large). If a respondent claims to belong to
a Scheduled Caste, his or her claim is accepted and the caste declared
is duly recorded in the Schedule. "It is for our superiors to find out
whether the caste declared by a person claiming to belong to a
Scheduled Caste i s in the list or not, and decide whether to count
the respondent as belonging to an S.C.," an enumerator told Frontline.
He said: "When even the Delhi S.C. list is not supplied to us, how can
you expect us to carry all-India SC/ST lists?" Delhi, f or instance,
has no S.T. list.

Para 67.3 of the Census Manual and Question 9 in the Schedule say that
a Scheduled Tribe can belong to any religion. However, a Scheduled
Caste person can belong to only the Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist religion
as per Question 8 in the Schedule. Here, Hindus or Sikhs or Buddhists
would also include their sects and beliefs, the Manual explains.
Judicial interpretations and legislative amendments have clarified
that the list of Scheduled Castes would include only those following
the Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist re ligions among the notified castes in
every State, the upshot being that members of S.Cs who convert to
religions other than Sikhism and Buddhism would lose their S.C.
status. While the rights of Dalits among Sikhs were recognised in the
1960s, those of D alit Buddhists were recognised only in the 1990s,
after a sustained struggle.

However, for Dalit Christians, who have been seeking inclusion among
the Scheduled Castes, the Census Schedule and the Manual appear to be
a major disappointment. The Bill to confer the S.C. status on Dalit
Christians was to be passed in Parliament in 19 96. But it was
abandoned on technical grounds, as it was introduced without giving
the statutory notice period. The Bharatiya Janata Party opposed the
Bill, arguing that it would cut into the benefits enjoyed by other
S.Cs and that the Christian converts , who abandoned Hinduism, should
not be entitled to the benefits that go with the S.C. status. The Bill
has not yet seen the light of the day, even though it had raised hopes
among Dalit Christians, who have been fighting for S.C. status for
long.

John Dayal, secretary-general of the All India Christian Council,
said: "This is a Census operation and not an application for
government jobs. No downstream benefits will accrue from the Census.
There is admittedly no caste in Christianity, Sikhism, Bud dhism and
Islam. But there is Christianity, Sikhism, Buddhism and Islam among
Dalits. That is a fact."

The Council served a legal notice on the Registrar-General of India
demanding that secondary questions on religion not be put to members
of the S.Cs. According to the Council, tribal leaders from Madhya
Pradesh and certain other States have complained th at local
enumerators were not listing tribal Christians as belonging to the
S.Ts, even though the Schedule and the Manual say that they can belong
to any religion. It felt that there were ulterior political motives in
several questions and that a blatant attempt was made to communalise
the Census operation, thereby vitiating the exercise and seriously
compromising its scientific-demographic character and development-
oriented statistical utility.

The Communist Party of India (Marxist) has expressed its concern over
the fact that a person belonging to a Scheduled Caste has been made to
choose from among Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist faiths to declare his or
her religious faith, and wanted the Census Co mmissioner to ensure
that persons belonging to the S.Cs who had converted to other
religions or chose to remain animists or agnostics are also counted as
belonging to S.Cs.

Muslim activist and former Member of Parliament Syed Shahabuddin
pointed out in a letter to the Registrar-General that it was not just
Christians who were aggrieved. He wrote: "Many Muslim Indians are
descendants of untouchables who are now classified as Scheduled Castes
and some of them still engage in the same vocation and form biradris
(brotherhood) like Halalkhor, (scavenger community) which is akin to
the Hindu group "Dom", recognised as a Scheduled Caste." Union
Communications Minister Ram Vilas Paswan, president of the Lok Jan
Shakthi, who heads the All India Dalit Sena, is also supportive of the
demand that Dalits converted to religions other than Sikhism and
Buddhism should be classified as belonging to Scheduled Castes.

Common to all these protests is the perception that Census data should
not be construed as a licence or a facilitator for positive
discrimination. Even if the Constitution confers Scheduled Caste
status only on those professing faith in three religions f or the
purpose of reservation in Parliament and State Assemblies and in
public employment, it does not prohibit the Registrar-General and
Census Commissioner from following the same criteria for the head-
count. The issue here is whether members of the Sc heduled Castes
could enjoy the same freedom as other citizens in recording their
religion. After all, no proof of identity is being insisted on by the
enumerators; so why restrict the freedom of choice of religion to
those who consider themselves as Dali ts or members of Scheduled
Castes? According to Article 341, for instance, if there is no proof
of conversion to a religion other than the Hindu religion but mere
acceptance of certain ideological tenets, a person does not lose his
or her status as the m ember of a Scheduled Caste (Chaturbhuj vs
Moreswar, 1954, S.C.R.816 (841).

The crux of the controversy is the Constitution (Scheduled Castes)
Order, 1950, issued by the President under Article 341. In this Order,
the President, exercising the authority conferred upon him by Article
341, specifies which of the castes are S.Cs. T he Order includes the
lists of S.Cs. for each State. In its third paragraph, it says that no
person who professes a religion different from the Hindu or Sikh
religion shall be deemed to be a member of a Scheduled Caste. This
Order was amended in 1990 to include Buddhism as the third religion to
which an S.C. person could belong. The 1996 Bill sought to add
Christianity to the list. Christian groups have been agitating against
this paragraph in the Order.

Fr. S. Lourduswamy, executive secretary of the Commission for
Scheduled Castes and Tribes and Backward Classes of the Catholic
Bishops' Conference of India, said that the additions in Columns 8 and
9 of the Census Schedule were striking and that they poi nted to
certain ulterior motives of the present government. He claimed that
the addition, given within parentheses in Column 8, that there could
be S.Cs only among Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists was not there in the
1991 Census Schedule. The clarification g iven in Column 9 that S.Ts
could be from any religion was also not there in the 1991 Schedule.
The only inference, he said, was that there was scope of misuse by
enumerators who could be biased for various reasons. Can one belonging
to an S.C. or an S.T. not declare oneself as an atheist or an animist?
he asked.

Protests from other sections brought to light more inconsistencies.
The Jharkhand Mukti Morcha (JMM) has warned that if the Census is held
as scheduled in Jharkhand, a large number of tribal people living away
from their homelands would be left out. The Registrar-General assured
the party that a fool-proof system had been evolved to deal with such
cases.

Other anomalies and aberrations include the categorisation of sex
workers as beggars and the grouping of eunuchs as men. The new
questions in the Schedule on fertility particulars seek details only
of married, widowed, divorced or separated women. It doe s not, for
instance, consider the possibility that fertility particulars could be
obtained from unmarried women.

NOTWITHSTANDING these questions, Census 2001 would make a significant
addition to the existing data on several counts. There are now
questions on the age of marriage for males, disability by type and the
mode of travel to the place of work, and a questio n for a household
engaged in cultivation and plantation. In addition, to ensure accuracy
and authenticity of the information collected, a provision has been
made in the Schedule to record the name of the respondent and her/his
relationship to the head of the family, and his/her signature or thumb
impression with date.

Over two million enumerators and supervisors have visited about 200
million households in about 6.5 lakh villages and more than 5,500
towns and cities, and covering about a billion people. Despite the
gaps, the Census will provide a snapshot of the popul ation of the
country as on March 1. The first phase involving house-listing was
completed between April and September 2000. Population enumeration in
the entire State of Jammu and Kashmir and the snow-bound areas of
Uttar Pradesh and Himachal Pradesh wer e completed in advance. The
preliminary results of the Census, expected to be released towards the
end of March, should throw more light on the effectiveness of this
gigantic exercise.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1805/18051220.htm

Volume 17 - Issue 18, Sep. 02 - 15, 2000
India's National Magazine
from the publishers of THE HINDU

Caste and the Census

Suggestions of caste-based enumeration in the 2001 Census have
provoked a serious debate.

ASHA KRISHNAKUMAR

CASTE-BASED enumeration of the population has not been carried out in
India since 1931. In the last 70 years, some caste names have changed,
quite a few new ones have emerged, several castes have merged with
others or have moved up or down the social hie rarchy, and many have
become politically active.

Caste being a sensitive issue, the proposition of caste-based census
naturally provoked serious debate. Social scientists such as Marc
Galanter have argued that the census recording of social precedence is
a device of colonial domination, designed to und ermine as well as to
disprove Indian nationhood. They contend that even assuming that caste
data are relevant, enumeration of the population on the basis of caste
is bound to be vitiated by vote-bank and reservation politics, leading
to the inflation of population figures and the suppression or
distortion of vital information on employment, education and economic
status, among other things (Frontline, September 25, 1998). They hail
the announcement of the Registrar-General of Census, J.K. Bantia, that
castes would not be enumerated in the 2001 Census. The decision,
according to those opposed to caste enumeration, reflects a clear
commitment to eliminate inequality of status and invidious treatment
and to establish a society in which the governme nt takes minimal
account of ascriptive ties.

An argument in favour of caste enumeration is that if the complexity
of castes, which have a significant bearing on society and the polity,
is to be understood, authentic data on castes should be available.
This was the general opinion of academics, poli ticians, government
officials, representatives of various Backward Classes Commissions and
mediapersons who gathered in Mysore in July for a seminar on "Caste
Enumeration in the Census". The seminar, organised by the Madras
Institute of Development Studi es (MIDS), Chennai, in collaboration
with Mysore University, the Institute for Social and Economic Change,
Bangalore, and the National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore,
also discussed alternative systems of data collection to obtain
authentic inf ormation on castes.

The need to enumerate castes was emphasised by representatives of
various Backward Classes Commissions. Their argument primarily centred
on the problems of identification of B.Cs and providing reservation
for them.

According to the Chairman of the Karnataka Backward Classes
Commission, Prof. Ravivarma Kumar, the first National Commission on
Backward Classes (appointed in 1953) and also the various State
Commissions have recorded the difficulty they faced in impleme nting
reservation for want of caste-related Census data. The Constitution,
while providing for reservation in professional institutions and State
services for the Scheduled Castes (S.Cs) and the Scheduled Tribes
(S.Ts), which are known to be historically disadvantaged, has
provisions in Article 15(4) (reservation in professional courses) and
Article 16 (4) (reservation of jobs in state services) for reservation
"for the advancement of socially and educationally backward classes of
citizens, known as Oth er Backward Classes (OBCs), in proportion to
their population". (However, the C in the OBC began to be referred to
as denoting ''castes'' instead of "classes", which denotes a
collection of individuals satisfying specified criteria.)

While Census enumerators continue to collect caste data of all castes
and tribes listed in the Schedules to Articles 341 and 342, they do
not collect data on OBCs. Hence, for want of data, the Backward
Classes Commissions resort to indirect methods to ar rive at a head
count of the OBCs, whose classification the judiciary most often
invalidates.

On the recommendation of these commissions, the National Commission
for Backward Classes Act, 1993, was enacted to revise the B.Cs list
periodically for "the deletion of castes that have ceased to be
backward classes or for inclusion in such lists new ba ckward
classes". Again, this cannot be done without caste data.

J.K. Bantia defended the government's decision not to have caste
enumeration during the head-count planned for 2001, saying: "The
Census as it is is overloaded. Over five million tables are generated
and analysed even without caste enumeration."

Andhra Pradesh Backward Classes Commission Chairman K.S. Puttaswamy
built up a case for a well-designed, rigorous sample survey by an
independent agency. He based his arguments on the path-breaking
experiment of his Commission, which appointed T.V. Hanur av to conduct
one of the largest independent statistical sample surveys in the
country on the socio-economic and educational conditions of caste
groups.

THE reasons which were laid out against enumerating castes in the
Census broadly fell into three categories - moral, pragmatic and
technical. A vigorous moral argument against the collection of caste
data is that it would "increase casteism" , "legitimis e castes",
"perpetuate castes" and "create cleavages in society". But most of the
participants felt that these apprehensions were baseless as non-
collection of caste data in the last 70 years had neither eliminated
caste distinctions nor ended caste ineq uality.

A pragmatic argument was that there was a tendency to misreport and
misrepresent data in order to garner benefits and privileges or to
incite caste clashes. But then, non-collection of data has not helped
reduce the frequency of caste clashes, which hav e become a reality
especially in Bihar. Atrocities against Dalits occur with alarming
frequency and intensity in many parts of the country. In fact, some
experts argue that in order to address the issue of caste clashes
there is a need for authentic data on the socio-economic and political
conditions of caste groups.

In the absence of authentic caste data, either the 1931 figures are
extrapolated with some modifications or estimates by caste groups
themselves are relied upon. Either of these can be misleading,
Puttaswamy says. For instance, the population of Andhra P radesh,
according to the 1991 Census, was 6.65 crores and the Central
Statistical Organisation's (CSO) estimation for 2001 is 7.69 crores.
Almost all castes barring Kammas, Jains, Anglo-Indians and Buddhists
have claimed B.C. status, arguing that they ar e the most backward on
social, educational and economic grounds and that they are under-
represented in government services and in political institutions.
These castes have come out with estimations of their own numbers; the
trouble is that only that they add up to 25 crores, or four times the
State's actual population.

That the Census cannot enumerate castes for technical reasons, given
the socio-economic complexities and political dimensions, was
elaborated by Prof. K. Nagaraj of the MIDS and Prof. P.K. Misra and
Suresh Patil of the Anthropological Survey of India. Ba sed on a
statistical analysis of the size and spatial distribution of castes in
the 1881 Census, Nagaraj argued that "there are broad dimensions to
the caste structure which make it extremely difficult to capture the
phenomenon of caste through a massive , one-time, quick operation like
the Census." He said the complexity arose primarily because of the
fragmentation, localisation, fluidity and ambiguity of castes.

Fragmentation: Of the 1,929 castes aggregated in the 1881 Census,
1,126 (58 per cent) had a population of less than 1,000; 556 (29 per
cent) less than 100; and 275 (14 per cent) less than 10. There are a
large number of single-member castes. At the other extreme, three
caste groups - Brahmins, Kunbis and Chamars - accounted for more than
a crore each. These three accounted for as many people as the bottom
1,848 (96 per cent) castes.

Localisation: Of the 1,929 caste groups, 1,432 (74 per cent) were
found only in one locality (out of 17); 1,780 (92 per cent) were
spread across four localities; and only two, Brahmins and the so-
called Rajputs, had an all-India presence. The pattern of localisation
also seemed to vary across space. For example, while the eastern and
southern regions had high localisation of the big caste groups, in the
northern and western regions they were spatially spread.

Thus there is a need for knowledge of the local caste systems. Even
such statistical techniques as sampling would vary across space.
"Decentralised data collection rather than a uniform all-India
approach appears essential," Nagaraj said.

The Census, while aggregating caste groups across the country,
predicates the exercise on 'varna' or on the caste-occupation nexus.
This has resulted in disparate caste groups being clubbed together. If
castes could not be grouped in 1881, it would be th at much more
difficult to do so today because a number of changes have taken place
in the caste system over the years.

Fluidity and ambiguity: Socio-economic and political changes,
particularly those since Independence, have introduced a number of
ambiguities in the structure and conception of castes, posing enormous
problems in enumerating them through a Census-type pro cedure. For
example, the changes in migration patterns and caste agglomerations,
the caste-occupation nexus and the mix of sacral and secular
dimensions in the nature of the caste groups vary widely across space
and castes. This introduces ambiguities in the very perception of
caste at various levels - legal, official, local and so on.

Misra and Suresh Patil argued that a centralised census operation was
not the appropriate way to enumerate castes for several reasons,
including change of nomenclature (for instance, Edagai and Balagai,
two depressed communities in Karnataka, were entere d as Holeya and
Madiga respectively until the 1921 Census, while they became Adi
Karnataka and Adi Dravida in the 1931 Census); phonetic resemblance in
names (for instance, the Gonds of Karnataka's Uttara Kannada district
have nothing to do with the Gond tribals of Madhya Pradesh); religious
movements and change of faith (the Veerasaiva religious movement in
northern Karnataka drew many artisan castes such as the Kammara
(blacksmith), Badiga (carpenter), Kumbara (potter) and Nekara (weaver)
into its fol d, while not accepting some other artisan castes such as
Bestha (fishermen), Machegara (cobbler) and Dhor (tanner), making it
difficult to get separate figures for different artisan groups); and
encroachment into another community's identity (the Nayaka community
of Karnataka got into the S.T. list as there is a Nayaka tribe in
Gujarat. Also its numbers swelled from 4,041 in 1931 to 1,37,410 in
1981).

There is thus the need for a decentralised, multi-disciplinary
approach to caste enumeration involving all the stakeholders in the
process. Thus the Census, which is centralised on several counts, is
not the appropriate agency to enumerate something as complex as
castes.

While Ravivarma Kumar argued that the Census could collect caste data
by simply introducing a few parameters in the schedule, Prof V.K.
Natraj of the MIDS said that it could at best give a head count of
various caste groups but would not capture the soci o-economic and
political complexities of caste in the country. A head count must be
supplemented by an independent, decentralised study, which should then
be made transparent, he said.

Among the various alternative methods of caste enumeration discussed
at the seminar, the Andhra Pradesh experience, it was felt, was worth
considering and replicating in other parts of the country.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1718/17180910.htm

Volume 17 - Issue 18, Sep. 02 - 15, 2000
India's National Magazine

from the publishers of THE HINDU

Lessons from a survey

On the question of including data on the caste identities in Census
enumeration, a survey conducted in Andhra Pradesh is instructive,
especially in terms of the mechanics of its design and conduct. This
sample survey, which covered 75,000 households in t he rural and urban
areas of the State, is one of the largest such surveys undertaken in
the country.

Dr. T.V. Hanurav, a former Dean of the Indian Statistical Institute
(ISI), Calcutta, was the principal investigator of the rigorous survey
pertaining to caste-related data. Conceived, conducted and analysed
strictly on statistical principles, the survey has been hailed as a
model that must be replicated across the country.

Hanurav was trained in the University of Sheffield, United Kingdom and
at the Michigan State University, the Texas A&M and the University of
Minnesota in the United States besides the University of Waterloo in
Belgium. He was senior adviser to the United Nations Educational
Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) in Belgrade.

A special invitee to the seminar on 'Caste Enumeration in the Census'
held in Mysore, Hanurav spoke to Asha Krishnakumar about the sample
survey, the results of which were submitted to the State Backward
Classes Commission in 1998.

Excerpts from the interview:

What is the background of the socio-economic and educational caste
survey in Andhra Pradesh?

In 1994, a leader from the rich Kappu community went on a fast
demanding the inclusion of his caste in the backward caste (B.C.)
list. Chief Minister K. Vijayabhaskara Reddy approached the
chairperson of the State Backward Classes Commission, Justice K.S .
Puttaswamy, to go into the issue. But due to lack of data, the
government decided to do a survey not only to enumerate the numbers
but also understand the socio-economic and educational profile of the
Kappus.

However, as there were likely to be similar demands from other castes
and as none could be labelled forward or backward, except in
comparison, I suggested that one omnibus survey be done to get an
unbiased profile of various castes and their social, educ ational and
economic parameters.

The survey was conducted and the data scrutinised and analysed in
accordance with rigorous statistical principles. An advisory committee
of sociologists, economists and statisticians was consulted in
designing the schedules to make it as objective as pos sible. As caste
is a sensitive issue, the respondents were assured that the primary
data would not be given to the government and that they would not be
forced to respond (statistical techniques were used to deal with non-
response). Although Rs.40 lakhs was budgeted, only Rs.30.42 lakhs was
spent.

A pilot survey was done in November 1994 and the formal survey was
launched in January 1995. The report was submitted to the BC
Commission in April 1998. It is, however, yet to see the light of
day.

What was the survey design?

The survey was done scientifically. I adopted a stratified random
sampling method. We adopted the sample survey (and not the Census)
method because of its advantage as, apart from saving on time and
cost, it has been proved that a rigorous and scientific survey is much
better than even a Census. This was established by the late P.C.
Mahalanobis more than 60 years ago, after which was set up the Central
Statistical Organisation (CSO), the National Sample Survey
Organisation (NSSO) and the State Statistic al Bureaux.

The survey covered all the 23 districts from which 3,600 urban
enumerator blocks and 2,000 villages were statistically chosen. Out of
these, 50,000 rural households and 25,000 urban households were
statistically shortlisted. The choice of even the ultima te sampling
unit, that is, a household, was made, and not left to field personnel.
Care was taken to include, as far as possible, castes with small
numbers.

Nearly 90 parameters on housing, education, occupation, income,
expenditure, assets, family size and so on, were collected and
scrutinised, and an Index of Forwardness (or Backwardness) worked
out.

A novel concept to measure the coefficient of friendship (between
castes) was also included. Both qualitative and quantitative data were
collected. Each of the qualitative classification was graded. For
instance, 'structure of the house' had five classif ications, each
superior to its successor; 'location of the house', four and so on.
All the qualitative variables were then indexed using well-proven
statistical techniques with coefficients ranging from 0 (most
backward) to 1 (most forward).

Broadly, four basic indices (of social, education and economic status
and of political empowerment) were worked out to calculate the Index
of Forwardness.

The Index of Social Status is a weighted average of such indices as
quality of housing, ownership of agricultural land and equipment and
gender-specific job security and job levels. The relative status of
women measures the progress towards gender equali ty.

Each of these components has sub-components. For instance, the
'quality of housing' has nine components, eight qualitative, with 10
per cent weight each, and a quantitative parameter (structure of the
house) with a weight of 20 per cent.

Finally, each component index is normalised over castes to make it
comparable and then assigned weights to obtain the weighted average.
This is the Index of Social Status, which gives the relative rank of
each caste in the overall social status.

Similar is the calculation of the Index of Education Status (computed
from six components, including adult male and female literacy and
indices of school-going children). An Index of Economic Status was
computed from five components including ownership o f assets, per
capita income, value of consumer durables and proportion of
expenditure on non-food items. An Index of Political Empowerment was
computed from an 'auxiliary sample' of households of members of
randomly chosen elected bodies, such as gram pa nchayats,
municipalities and corporations, mandal praja parishads and zilla
parishads, and the district cooperative central banks. A statistical
measure using grades of elected bodies and designations gives the
index.

What were the results of the survey?

The Index of Forwardness was calculated with 40 per cent weight for
social status, 30 per cent for education status, 20 per cent for
economic status and 10 per cent for political empowerment. This value,
normalised for various castes, gives the composite Index of
Forwardness, 'F', which like other indices, falls between 0 and 1. For
each of the five indices, the castes are ranked in the descending
order. Ranks are given bypassing the non-Telugu population.

The 'F' distribution is divided into five: Central 25 per cent average
castes; 25 per cent on either side, forward and backward; and 12.5 per
cent on either end, most forward and most backward castes. This is
only a guide and if need be the scale can be divided into seven.

There were 369 castes listed in the households. In the sample there
were no households for 63 castes, 104 had less than 10 households; and
30 castes had non-Telugu households. Ultimately, 172 castes/caste-
groups were identified and studied in detail. The tables were prepared
in alphabetical order and the castes ranked according to the index and
population percentage. The index ranged between 0 and 1.

This index apart, we also worked out the coefficient of friendship. At
the end of the schedule, we asked each respondent to name their five
closest friends. Castes were grouped into 25 broad categories of
single caste or homogeneous groups of castes and a 25x25 matrix was
worked out, which was used to obtain the index coefficient which, if
closer to 1 denotes high inter-caste friendship. Interestingly, the
lower and higher castes were found to mix well.

Why is the report not being discussed or used?

The report, in all probability, has some embarrassing and difficult
results for the Andhra Pradesh government. It may have to derecognise
some castes that are now in the B.C. list. For instance, converted
Christians are ranked 34th (out of 172) and have 81 per cent of the
population below them. How can they be called backward? Similarly, the
Kappu community, which has 77 per cent of the population below them,
cannot be called backward. The B.C. Commission wants me to provide the
primary data. I will not give them as I have made a commitment to my
respondents.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1718/17180920.htm

India's National Magazine
From the publishers of THE HINDU
Vol. 15 :: No. 19 :: Sep. 12 - 25, 1998

CENSUS

A costly digression
The proposal to include caste in the "millennium census" is ill-
conceived.

P.RADHAKRISHNAN

IF H. H. Risley politicised caste in relation to census in British
India, the celebration of the centenary of this event by the Advanis
and the Malkanis of the Bharatiya Janata Party through what the Census
Commissioner has pompously called the "millennium census" may push
India into the 21st century as a new-fangled caste society.

Risley was not the first in British India to do what he did; but the
dramatis personae in the BJP will be the first in independent India to
do what they may. Understanding the real import of this is
understanding the nexus between caste and colonialism, caste and the
Constitution, and of course, caste and the "millennium census".

The colonial construction of caste, which preceded the long saga of
decennial censuses in British India, was the working out of several
intricate processes of gathering, processing, and using materials on
Indian society, which at the ideational and pragmatic levels were
functional imperatives of the colonial administration. These processes
involved the British concern for creating an overarching
administrative machinery reflecting the established structures of the
country, and for incorporating into its colonial framework the
traditionally well-entrenched, and from its viewpoint, strategically
placed, social groups, as its compradors, the related policies and
politics of patronage, concessions, conciliations, counterpoises, and
so on.

These processes had a direct bearing on the decennial censuses
conducted by the British, and reinforced the nexus between caste and
colonialism, reflecting what has often been characterised as the
British passion for labels and pigeonholes.

"The castes were entered," wrote W. R. Cornish in his report on the
1871 Census in Madras Presidency, "in the order in which native
authorities are pretty generally agreed of their relative importance."
The fallacies and fallout of the use of caste and its classifications,
that is, the grouping or arrangement of the various castes for
administrative, political, and social purposes, in successive censuses
from 1871-72 to 1931, are still debated. However, as Ghurye (1979:
278) mentioned, "this procedure reached its culmination in the Census
of 1901 under the guidance of Sir Herbert Risley of ethnographic
fame."

Among those highly critical of what Risley did was Hutton (1986: 433),
Commissioner of the 1931 Census:

"All subsequent census officers in India must have cursed the day when
it occurred to Sir Herbert Risley, no doubt in order to test his
admirable theory of the relative nasal index, to attempt to draw up a
list of castes according to their rank in society. He failed, but the
results of his attempt are almost as troublesome as if he had
succeeded, for every census gives rise to a pestiferous deluge of
representations, accompanied by highly problematical histories, asking
for recognition of some alleged fact or hypothesis of which the census
as a department is not legally competent to judge and of which its
recognition, if accorded, would be socially valueless. Moreover, as
often as not, direct action is requested against the corresponding
hypotheses of other castes. For the caste that desires to improve its
social position seems to regard the natural attempts of others to go
up with it as an infringement of its own prerogative; its standing is
in fact to be attained by standing upon others rather than with
them."

Among others, Ghurye (1979: 279) dwelt at length on Risley's caste
ranking in the heat of the controversy itself:

"It is difficult to see any valid public reason for this elaborate
treatment of caste in the Census Report... The conclusion is
unavoidable that the intellectual curiosity of some of the early
officials is mostly responsible for the treatment of caste given to it
in the Census, which has become progressively elaborate in each
successive Census since 1872. The total result has been a livening up
of the caste-spirit."

Elaborating this "livening up", Ghurye (1979: 278) observed:

"Various ambitious castes quickly perceived the chances of raising
their status. They invited conferences of their members, and formed
councils to take steps to see that their status was recorded in the
way they thought was honourable to them. Other castes that could not
but resent this "stealthy" procedure to advance, equally eagerly began
to controvert their claims. Thus a campaign of mutual recrimination
was set afoot."

This "livening up", as implicit in Ghurye's statement, was also
mobility within the caste system as elaborated by M. N. Srinivas
(1970: 18):

"The decennial census, introduced by the British, recorded caste, and
it unwittingly came to the aid of social mobility.Prosperous low
castes, and even those which were not prosperous, sought to call
themselves by new and high-sounding Sanskrit names. Getting the names
recorded in the census was part of the struggle to achieve a higher
status than before."

Going by K. S. Singh's Foreword to the 1986 reprint of Hutton's
report, in the 1931 Census, 175 claims to higher rank were registered,
out of which 80 were to Kshatriya status, 33 to Brahmin, and 15 to
Vaisya in the four census regions (United Provinces, Bengal and
Sikkim, Bihar and Orissa, and Central Provinces and Berar). There were
similar claims in the rest of the country as well, many of them since
the 1871 Census itself.

Thus, the claims in Madras Presidency to the status of Brahmins by the
Kammalas alias Kamasalas, and the Patnulkar, of Kshatriyas by the
Vanniyar, Nadar, and some of the Balijas, and of Vaisyas by the
Komatis, and some of the Vellalar.

The British policies and politics of patronage and counterpoise and
the use of caste in censuses introduced a strong caste idiom into the
fast emerging bargaining culture among the socially assertive,
aspiring, and upwardly mobile castes, and strengthened the nexus
between caste and colonialism. Seen from this perspective, the use of
caste in censuses under the British dispensation was seen in the
affirmative by several castes. In fact, they waited eagerly for each
census to stake their claims for higher and more respectable ranks.
However, "there was revulsion at the unseemly scramble to use census
listings to upgrade caste status and to inflate numbers for political
advantage. (Galanter 1984: 260). Stated differently, the use of caste
in censuses was also seen as socially divisive and hence undesirable,
especially by the nationalists since the early 20th century, and there
were protests against it. On the protests in general Hutton (1986:
430) wrote:

"As on the occasion of each successive census since 1901, a certain
amount of criticism had been directed at the census for taking any
note at all of the fact of caste. It has been alleged that the mere
act of labelling persons as belonging to a caste tends to perpetuate
the system and on this excuse a campaign against any record of caste
was attempted in 1931 by those who objected to any such returns being
made."

When, for reasons evident from his criticism of Risley, Hutton (1986:
433) wrote that "an abandonment of the return of caste would be viewed
with relief by census officers" and "this question is one which it
will only be possible to determine when time comes," little would he
have realised that the Census under his guidance was the last to
include caste. In fact, that Census itself saw the "contraction of
caste sorting", the first breach in the tradition of recording
faithfully all castes returned. Owing to retrenchment necessities, the
scope of this in regard to the coverage of caste was restricted, and
it enumerated only a dozen or so of selected castes of wide
distribution. The 1941 Census, the last to be conducted by the
British, was constrained by the War-time economies, and did not
tabulate any data except the basic population totals and community
totals.

As "abandonment of caste enumeration seemed a step toward the
deestablishment of caste" (Galanter 1984: 260), after India attained
independence, enumeration of caste in censuses was dispensed with, as
part of national policy, since 1951.

"In one respect ... a departure from precedent was clearly stipulated
from the outset. The 1951 Census was not to concern itself with
questions regarding races, castes and tribes - except insofar as the
necessary statistical material relating to "special groups" was to be
published and certain other material relating to backward classes
collected and made over to the Backward Classes Commission. (Census of
India, 1951, Vol. 1, India, Part 1A, Pp. x.)"

The special groups were primarily the Scheduled Castes and the
Scheduled Tribes, the data regarding whose numbers was essential to
ensure their representation in Parliament and legislatures as required
by the Constitution. While the enumeration of these groups has
continued without break, as Galanter pointed out (1984), the data on
backward classes collected as part of the 1951 Census were not fully
tabulated and were never published.

INDIA has had five decennial censuses since 1951. None of them has
collected caste data despite demands for it, especially from the first
All-India Backward Classes (Kaka Kalelkar) Commission appointed in
1953. In its "Summary of Conclusions and Recommendations", the report
of this Commission (Government of India 1955: 159) suggested the
following:

"Before the disease of caste is destroyed all facts about it have to
be noted and classified in a scientific manner as in a clinical
record. To this end we suggest that the 1961 Census be remodelled and
reorganised so as to secure the required information... If possible,
Census should be carried out in 1957 instead of in 1961."

Seen against the Centre's consistent stand of five decades that
reflects its abiding concern for preventing caste from coming into
play in the public sphere, and the fact that "caste enumeration would
aggravate caste consciousness and undermine modernisation has remained
the received view" (Galanter 1984: 260), the BJP's proposal to use
caste in the next Census is ill-conceived for at least eight reasons.

One, the policy of dispensing with caste was in keeping with the new
social order envisaged by the Constitution, as evident from various
related writings, especially by Galanter (1968: 299):

"It is a commonplace that the Constitution of India envisages a new
order with regard to both the place of caste in Indian life and the
role of law in regulating it. There is a clear commitment to eliminate
inequality of status and invidious treatment, and to have a society in
which the government takes minimal account of ascriptive ties."

In his speech of November 25, 1949 on his motion for the adoption of
the Constitution, Dr. B. R. Ambedkar, the chief architect of the
Constitution, observed (Rao 1968, IV: 945):

"I am of opinion that in believing that we are a nation, we are
cherishing a great delusion. How can people divided into several
thousands of castes be a nation? ... These castes are anti-national:
in the first place because they bring about separation in social life.
They are anti-national also because they generate jealousy and
antipathy between caste and caste. But we must overcome all these
difficulties if we wish to become a nation in reality. For fraternity
can be a fact only when there is a nation. Without fraternity,
equality and liberty will be no deeper than coats of paint."

The concern of the framers of the Constitution for ushering in a
casteless society is evident from the treatment of caste in the
Constitution. Galanter (1968: 325-26) has brought this out clearly:

While there are guarantees to preserve the integrity of religious and
linguistic groups, there is none for the caste group. It would not
seem to enjoy any constitutional protection as such. This silence may
represent an anticipation that caste will wither away and have no
important place in the new India, or it may represent an implicit
ratification of the old policy of non-interference.

There is a desire to minimise the impact of caste groupings in public
life. The government has discouraged the use of caste as a means of
legal identification. Appeals to caste loyalty in electoral
campaigning are forbidden. Promotion of enmity between castes is a
serious criminal offence.

Apart from explicit restrictions on caste discrimination, there is a
tendency to discourage any arrangements which promote the coherence
and integrity of the caste groups as such."

The judicial interpretations of the Constitution have also been too
liberal and optimistic: the Constitution has completely obliterated
the caste system; reference to caste in Articles 15(2) and 16(2) is
only to obliterate it; prohibition on the ground of caste is total;
the mandate is that never again in this country caste shall raise its
head, and so run these interpretations, as evident from the Supreme
Court's judgments of November 16, 1992 on the two notifications
relating to the partial implementation of the Mandal Commission's
recommendations.

Two, "the caste enumeration and the census recording of social
precedence was perceived as a device of colonial domination, designed
to undermine as well as to disprove Indian nationhood." (Galanter
1984: 260). Even if the BJP has a "hidden agenda" of introducing its
own version of imperialism, the so-called "Hindu imperialism", the
changes in the caste system since the early 20th century will make it
impossible to do so by means of using caste.

Briefly, starting from the late 19th century, colonial rule
accelerated the processes at work in the interaction between society,
the economy, and the polity. These processes included the interface
between British rule and local society; expansion of the economic
frontier; emergence of new professions which were not ascriptive or
prescribed by caste; and urban growth. They helped the historically
disabled and disprivileged bottom groups gain at least some access to
society's opportunity structure from which they were excluded through
a series of "social closures"; led to new forms of caste solidarity;
and the transition of caste from an "organic" system to a "segmentary"
one, that is, from a structure to a juxtaposition of substances;
spread of social movements, some of which gave a certain militancy to
their anti-caste thrust, while some others which sought to nestle
under the caste system through efforts to move up in its hierarchy,
also weakened caste, at least insofar as they affected Brahmins, by
sapping their prestige and depriving them of their dominance in
administration; the broad-basing of the nationalist movement, which
provided the much-needed socio-political basis for the articulation of
the rights of the bottom groups of society, though importantly enough
it was also "subversive" of the caste system.

T.L. PRABHAKAR
Enumeration work in Bangalore during the 1991 Census.

The change in the caste system over the last 100 years or so and the
shift in emphasis from religious factors to politics in matters
relating to caste make the collection of caste data through census is
a costly digression into the irrelevant and irrational.

Three, the BJP's plea that the implementation of the Mandal
Commission's recommendations has made enumeration on the basis of
caste imperative is disingenuous. For much of the data for this
purpose was collected by this Commission itself, and the commissions
appointed by the Centre and the States at the instance of the Supreme
Court are expected to correct the lapses, if any, in the OBCs' lists
prepared by it, by deciding on complaints of exclusion and/or over-
inclusion of castes and communities.

Four, the need for population figures of the OBCs for their political
representation in Parliament and the legislatures, as claimed by the
present Census Commissioner, is both presumptuous and preposterous,
inasmuch as the Constitution does not envisage such representation;
nor has there been any enabling by Parliament.

Five, assuming that collection of caste data is still relevant, this
task is bound to be vitiated by vote-bank and reservation politics,
which may inflate population figures and suppress or distort vital
information such as that on education, employment and economic
status.

Six, India's compensatory policy is probably the most important of its
social policies to be so deeply embedded in its political rhetoric. M.
N. Srinivas said (1970: 15, 75) in the 1950s that with the
introduction of adult franchise and constitutional safeguards to the
backward sections of the population, especially the Scheduled Castes
and the Scheduled Tribes, caste has got a new lease of life. This is
being said now with greater vehemence mainly because of the increasing
importance of this policy.

As social discrimination is the essence of the caste system of which
the bulk of Indians have been victims, it is only to be expected that
this policy, aimed at helping such victims, should also lead to much
populist rhetoric, and have a close nexus with caste constituencies
which are its principal claimants and beneficiaries, and vote-bank
politics. So the clamour for inclusion in the lists of the beneficiary
groups, the scramble for cornering the benefits, and the abuse of this
policy as well as its actual, aspiring, and potential beneficiary
groups for political gains will only intensify with the passage of
time, unless of course the implementation of this policy is closely
monitored by the administration and the judiciary.

What happened in Tamil Nadu during 1988-89 should be an eye-opener.
Following are some observations made in a write-up (Radhakrishnan
1989: 506) prepared before the DMK Ministry assumed office in 1989:

"The vociferous claims and counter-claims of just a few of the
communities in Tamil Nadu about their numerical strength give the
impression that this "model State" of family planning is now in the
throes of a massive population explosion.

The 1981 Census estimated the State's population at 4.8 crores with
the S.C.s, S.T.s, Muslims, and Christians alone accounting for about
1.5 crores (30 per cent). But if these claims are any indication, the
State now has more than two crore Vanniyars, 2 crore Thevars, 1.5
crore Vellalars, 1.5 crore Kongu Vellala Gounders, more than 75 lakh
Senai Thalaivars, 65 lakh Kammas, 65 lakh Muslims, 35 lakh Reddys, 20
lakh Arya Vysyas, plus, of course, the population of 300 and odd other
communities which have not yet made a parade of their prowess in
numerical terms."

These hyperboles were for nestling under the State's much hackneyed
OBCs' list for cornering more and more of its much coveted reservation
benefits, through agitations, threats, violence, and what have you:

"The Vanniyar Sangam, the most aggrieved of all the caste
organisations in the State, has been struggling for over a year now
for reservation of 20 per cent jobs and educational admissions in the
State and 2 per cent jobs in the Centre for Vanniyars. Less ingenuous
are the demands of some of the supposedly "forward" castes: of the
Federation of Vellalar Associations for 35 per cent and 5 per cent
reservations (in the State and Centre respectively) for the Vellalars;
of the Thuluva Vellalar Sangam for 30 per cent and 3 per cent for the
Thuluva Vellalars; of the Kongu Vellala Gounders Peravai (Federation)
for 25 per cent and 2.5 per cent for the Kongu Velala Gounders: of the
Vysya Mahasabha for 10 per cent and 1 per cent for the Arya Vysyas; of
the Kamma Mahajana Sangam for 15 per cent (in the State alone) for the
Kammas; and of the Reddy Welfare Association for an appropriate
percentage for all the 24 Reddy sub-sects depending on the
Government's assessment of their number. Among the runners-up for
exclusive reservations in the State alone are the Thevar Peravai for
30 per cent (along with S.T. status) for the Thevar or the Agamudayar-
Kallar-Maravar combine of castes; the Mutharayar Sangam for 25 per
cent for the Mutharayars; the Nadar Mahajana Sangam for 20 per cent
(along with SC benefits) for the Nadars; and the Yadava Mahasabha for
10 per cent for the Yadavas." (ibid.)

Virtually all the above castes and communities, and quite a few others
for that matter, whose claims and counter-claims during British rule
were for moving up in the traditional caste hierarchy, have persisted
with their claims about their numerical strength and for exclusive or
increased reservation even after 1989.

If the various caste groups sought mobility within the caste system by
inventing "copper plates", "palm-leaf writings" and so on to clinch
their claims in the past, assuming that quite a few of them are still
backward, others have been inventing numerical strength, poverty,
backwardness, and other relevant factors for claiming the benefits of
the compensatory policy. So inclusion of caste in the census is bound
to be potentially explosive, an invitation to further chaotic
proliferation of caste and communal organisations, further realignment
of castes for forming what has been called the "horizontal stretch" to
ensure numerical strength for political mobilisation and articulation,
and intensification of competitive communalism centring around caste.
The effects of these and related developments on caste as an
institution, compensatory policy, census and electoral politics, can
be unsavoury and detrimental to pursuing the constitutional commitment
to secularism, egalitarianism and a casteless society.

Seven, the decennial Indian census is a massive undertaking even
without the inclusion of caste data in it. If the Census Department
cannot complete the data collected on S.Cs and S.Ts, even as late as
1998, that is, nearly a decade after its collection in the 1991
Census, that too with enormous manpower and computer technology at its
command, it is inconceivable that it will process in the foreseeable
future additional data which will be at least three times more than
the data on the S.C.s and S.T.s. So, apart from politicising the
census and vitiating the enumeration on caste and communal
considerations, inclusion of caste data in the census is not likely to
serve any useful purpose.

Eight, the BJP catapulted itself to political limelight by its attack
of the V. P. Singh Government for its decision to implement the Mandal
Commission's recommendations, on the ground that it will encourage
casteism and caste-based social divisions. Seen against this, and the
rabid concept of Hindutva of the Sangh Parivar, as a group known for
its forced homogenisation, procrustean postures and predilections,
there ought to be some sinister design if the BJP suddenly proposes
the use of caste in the census on the pretext of helping the OBCs.

OPPOSING the use of caste in the census should not be construed as
opposing the compensatory policy. In this sense, the argument in a
section of the press that if we have caste-based reservations we
cannot escape from caste-based census is inane; for after the Supreme
Court's rulings in the so-called Mandal case, reservation is not caste-
based in the real sense of the term, as once the creamy layer is
excluded as directed by the judiciary, the unit for consideration is
not caste per se, but individual members of specified social groups,
which may be castes or corresponding sections of other religious
communities; and implicit in such elimination is the gradual phasing
out of the compensatory policy. It is one thing to have reservation
and the relevant data for it through commissions appointed by the
judiciary; it is quite another to inject the caste virus into the
census, ignoring with impunity a well-conceived social policy that has
been pursued for 50 years.

Stating that caste is the greatest Indian mystery known to modern
writers, Vincent Smith (1919: 33-41) wrote in his 1918 critique of the
report of the Indian Constitutional Reforms:

"The caste of an Indian is not to him a matter of insignia to be worn
or doffed at pleasure. It is bone of his bone and flesh of flesh...
Prophecies or hopes of the weakening or disappearance of caste within
a measurable period are futile. So long as Hindus continue to be
Hindus, caste cannot be destroyed or even materially modified."

That Smith's observations have been prophetic is stating the obvious;
and like the proverbial cat with nine lives, caste may continue to be
on the prowl with or without its inclusion in the census. What is
implicit in caste is social division, which militates against social
integration. While caste may continue to be fundamental to Indian
life, and the most convenient category for political mobilisation, the
state as the upholder and defender of the constitutional values ought
to ensure that it does what is expected of it by the Constitution
because institutions cannot be changed without changing their
underlying values. It would have been impossible to abolish caste as
an institution, which has survived for about 3,000 years, by
legislation and at a stroke. So, as a testimony to constitutional
pragmatism, the mandate was to ignore it in public life, make its
socially inequitous, outrageous, stigmatic, and seemingly
discriminatory aspects illegal, and allow it to have a natural, albeit
slow, death. The inclusion of caste in the census will not serve this
purpose.

P. Radhakrishnan is Professor of Sociology at the Madras Institute of
Development Studies, Chennai.

REFERENCES

Galanter, Marc. 1984. Competing Equalities: Law and the Backward
Classes in India. New Delhi: OUP.

Galanter, Marc. 1968. "Changing Legal Conceptions of Caste". In Milton
Singer and Bernard S. Cohn ed., Structure and Change in Indian
Society. Chicago: Aldine Publishing Company.

Ghurye, G.S. 1979 (first published 1932). Caste and Race in India.
Bombay: Popular Prakashan.

Hutton, J.H. 1986 (first published 1933). Census of India, 1931, Vol.
1. Delhi: Gian Publishing House.

Government of India. 1955. Report of the Backward Classes Commission,
Vol. 1.

Radhakrishnan, P. 1989. "Tamil Nadu Backward Classes", Bulletin,
Madras Development Seminar Series (MIDS Bulletin), Vol. XIX, No. 10,
October.

Rao, Shiva B. 1968. The Framing of Indian Constitution: A Study. New
Delhi: The Indian Institute of Public Administration.

Smith, Vincent A. 1919. Indian Constitutional Reform Viewed in the
Light of History. London: OUP.

Srinivas, M.N. 1970 (first published 1962). Caste in Modern India and
Other Essays. Bombay: Asia Publishing House.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1519/15191010.htm

Volume 24 - Issue 07 :: Apr. 07-20, 2007

INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE
from the publishers of THE HINDU

COVER STORY

`Petitioners were wrong in history'
V. VENKATESAN

Interview with P.S. Krishnan, former Secretary, Ministry of Welfare.

P.S. Krishnan. He has contributed significantly to the preparation of
the Central government's affidavits in the Indra Sawhney case.

P.S. Krishnan, Honorary Adviser to Human Resource Development Minister
Arjun Singh on the reservation issue, has decades of experience in
handling matters related to the backward classes movement. As Joint
Secretary, Ministry of Home Affairs, and later in 1990, as Secretary,
Ministry of Welfare, his imprint was there at each stage of the
evolution of the Mandal Commission - in its appointment and
functioning and in processing its recommendations in 1979-80. He also
contributed significantly to the preparation of the Central
government's affidavits in the Indra Sawhney case in 1992, which
resulted in the Supreme Court upholding the reservation of government
posts for the Other Backward Classes (OBCs). As a Member of the Expert
Committee on Backward Classes in 1993, he facilitated the adoption of
the creamy layer concept in accordance with the Supreme Court's
directions and thereafter led the first phase of the process of
preparing Central (Common) Lists of Backward Classes. Again his
presence as Member-Secretary of the National Commission for Backward
Classes (NCBC) from 1993 to February 2000 and his encyclopaedic
knowledge of the caste system have helped ensure that genuinely
backward communities that were left out in the first phase Central
Lists were brought into the lists and that efforts to bring in
communities that are not socially backward, were barred. Krishnan has
formulated hundreds of Statutory Advices and Findings on behalf of the
Commission.

He has brought out a book titled Three Historical Addresses of Dr.
Babasaheb Ambedkar in the Constituent Assembly in which his Preface
underlines the link between Ambedkar's diagnosis of the Indian polity
in 1949 and its current fragility. He spoke to Frontline on the
implications of the Supreme Court's stay of Section 6 of the Central
Educational Institutions (Reservation in Admission) Act, 2007 with
regard to OBCs. Excerpts from the interview:

There is a perception that the Union government could have handled the
case better than it did before the Supreme Court. as it is clear that
the court is not convinced about the merits of not staying the
operation of Section 6 of the Central Educational Institutions
(Reservation in Admission) Act, 2007.

Rarely did the Government of India fight any case involving
reservation as well as this time. What have we done? We have
identified the major issues that have arisen in each writ petition.
They are repetitive - not only now but during the last 40 years. The
Supreme Court had held that listing of backward classes in terms of
units of caste is constitutionally valid, in Minor P. Rajendran v.
State of Tamil Nadu in 1968. A crucial part of this judgment was that
caste is also a class. If a whole caste is socially and educationally
backward, then there is nothing wrong in classifying that caste as a
backward class even if some individuals in that caste might have moved
up [socially].

What are the issues that have arisen as a result of the Supreme
Court's interim order on March 29 in the Ashoka Kumar Thakur case?

There are two issues with reference to which the interim order has
been passed. They are: lack of up-to-date data and the non-exclusion
of creamy layer. So far as the non-exclusion of creamy layer is
concerned, the order itself acknowledges that the government has given
certain reasons why the creamy layer formula is not applicable to
reservation in educational institutions. This has to be considered. So
far as data are concerned, in my view, they are required for different
details and different purposes. Suppose I am going to organise a
project for backward classes belonging to the fishermen community,
then I will need data not only about their population but also their
age distribution, number of workers, level of education, the kits
available, what infrastructure would be required, etc. I would require
much more data, if it is a project.

For reservation, only two things are required. One is what the
appropriate percentage of reservation should be. The second
requirement is a properly prepared, and constitutionally valid, list
of the backward classes who would be eligible for reservations.

Is it proper to rely on the 1931 Census data?

There is an incorrect impression that the 1931 Census is the basis on
which the backward classes were identified, and that they were
identified according to the conditions 80 years back. The backward
classes had been identified before the 1931 Census. The current list
was prepared not on the basis of the 1931 Census but through multiple
procedures in the contemporary context. The Mandal Commission held its
investigations in 1979-80. So it pertains to the conditions at that
time. And what were these multiple procedures?

First was the evidence placed before the Commission by the communities
saying that they were backward, and their [the members of the
Commission] own tours to gain first-hand knowledge of the conditions
of the backward classes. Secondly, the Commission had gone through the
1961 Census, where there are some figures pertaining to nomadic
communities, and special groups.

Third, the Commission also studied the lists prepared by various State
governments of backward classes in their States. Lastly, the sample
survey that resulted in the preparation of Statewise lists. The
government did not accept the Mandal Commission report in toto. The
procedure the government adopted was of double distillation. This
process brought about 2,000 communities and castes into the list of
backward classes as against the 3,743 in the Mandal list.

THE HINDU PHOTO LIBRARY

December 1980: Bindhyeshwari Prasad Mandal presents his report to
Union Home Minister Zail Singh. During his tenure as Chairman of the
Second Backward Classes Commission, constituted on December 20, 1978,
Mandal wrote to three successive Home Ministers requesting an up-to-
date census with a caste dimension.

As per the direction of the Supreme Court in the Indra Sawhney case, a
permanent mechanism was created, namely, the National Commission for
Backward Classes under an Act. This Commission had the responsibility
and the power to consider requests for inclusion in the lists of
backward classes, and complaints of over-inclusion or under-inclusion.
In the process, some of the communities that were in one list, and not
in the other , were not included. Those who were in neither list also
came up. A number of them were rejected. The Commission advises the
government and the government invariably complies with the
Commission's advice, because the Act says that the advice of the
Commission is ordinarily binding on the government, which is what the
Supreme Court laid down. The Commission then advised the inclusion of
200-odd communities, making up a total of 2,200-odd communities. The
Supreme Court rightly observed in the Indra Sawhney case that the
Central government did not accept the whole Mandal list. They have
only included those communities that are common to both the Mandal
list and the State lists. Thus it is virtually the State lists [that
prevailed]. All the State lists had withstood the test of time and
judicial scrutiny. Many of them had gone to the Supreme Court in
different cases. In all these cases, the Supreme Court had upheld all
these lists. All the criticisms now being made were also raised at
that time. All these arguments were repeated in the Mandal case (Indra
Sawhney) but were rejected by the Supreme Court.

It appears from the interim judgment that the Central government's
list of OBCs has not been revised as required under the National
Commission for Backward Classes Act, 1993.

It has been done. The Ministry of Social Justice wrote to the NCBC in
2003 in terms of Section 11 of the Act, and it advised the government
that no community should be deleted from the list under that section
at that stage. Logically, is there anything wrong in that because
Central reservation started only in 1993? In 10 years, will the
consequence of hundreds of years of denials, deprivations and
oppressions disappear? Now, it is quite possible that there are
question marks over the inclusion of certain communities in these 10
years; it might have even been the case earlier. Does it remain
backward? Was it backward at the time it was included? For that also,
the Supreme Court has created a procedure. It is as simple as the
Right to Information Act. Anyone is free to complain to the Commission
that certain castes or communities in the Central list within a State
are not socially and educationally backward for certain reasons. The
Commission is bound to consider the complaint and give its advice to
the government. The government is bound by its advice. If there is a
deficit in this duty and responsibility, then the complainant can go
to the Supreme Court.

The petitioners in the latest case have raised a number of issues that
have a bearing on the effectiveness of the reservation. Is there any
merit in their plea?

Many of the claims in the writ petitions are wrong. We have pointed
out every one of them. The Union of India's counter-affidavit to the
writ petition filed by the Resident Doctors' Welfare Association is
the most exhaustive. There are so many errors. For example, one of the
writ petitions says that reservation policy was started by the British
as part of their divide-and-rule policy, and what is being done now is
the continuation of that. We pointed out that reservation policy was
started first by the Maharaja of Kolhapur in 1902. There was no
politician active at that time, because there was no question of vote-
bank politics. The Maharaja of Mysore started reservation in 1921. In
all these cases, there was a long history of social movements,
agitations against monopolies. In the case of the Mysore [princely]
state, the Maharaja of Mysore appointed the Chief Judge of Mysore,
Justice Miller as the chairman of the committee to examine who the
backward classes and what should be done to bring their representation
to a better level. And on the basis of the committee's report, which
was submitted three years later, the Maharaja passed the order. Like
that, we have shown how the petitioners were wrong in history, and
sociology.

Is the March 29 interim order contrary to the letter and spirit of the
earlier judgments of the Supreme Court?

We have said that all those writ petitions and stay petitions pertain
to the same subject and the issues therein are similar. Each of the
contentions raised in the petitions already stand negatived by the
Supreme Court. There are mainly two issues: one, the lack of up-to-
date data. In the Indra Sawhney case also this issue was raised. The
Supreme Court said that the Mandal Commission had gone by the 1931
Census for listing the backward classes. But these classes were
identified on the basis of the Commission's inquiry and investigation.
Whatever evidence they got, there was nothing wrong about it. We also
refuted the allegation of the petitioners that reservation for the
backward classes is disintegrative. We answered it by citing the Indra
Sawhney judgment, which says that reservation is one of the means of
integrating society, fractured by the caste system over hundreds of
years.

How will the government plead for the vacation of the stay order?

In the Indra Sawhney judgment, the nine-Judge Bench bemoaned that 43
years had passed without OBC reservation in Services. In the case of
OBC reservation in educational institutions, 55 to 57 years have
passed without the reservation policy. We are now set to lose one more
year because of the stay. We will also point to the balance of
convenience. In all matters of interim orders, the balance of
convenience is considered.

This is a unique Act where while providing for reservation for
backward classes, the government has taken a policy decision and
incorporated in the Act that while doing this, the expansion will be
done in the seats in such a manner that the present number of
unreserved seats(the general category seats) will not come down.
Suppose the Act is not stayed, there is no loss to the general
category. Suppose it is stayed, backward classes will lose one more
year - over and above 57 years. It was pointed out to the Bench.

The Bench was not convinced?

We cannot say it was not convinced because it has not dealt with it.
People can draw their own conclusions. I can only say that there is
enough data. The nine-Judge Bench in 1992 found that the data were
adequate to arrive at 27 per cent reservation, and upheld the manner
in which we drew up the list of backward classes, that is, by
including entries common to the Mandal list and the State lists.

THE HINDU PHOTO LIBRARY

KAKASAHEB KALELKAR, CHAIRMAN, First Backward Classes Commission, which
was constituted on January 29, 1953.

The Supreme Court has also pointed out the discrepancies in the data
on OBC population released by different agencies.

Let us take the NSSO [National Sample Survey Organisation]. The NSSO
has for the first time come out with the figures of the SEBCs
[Socially and Economically Backward Communities] in 1999-2000. At that
time, the backward classes in the Central context were six years old.

The methodology followed by the NSSO was something like this: The NSSO
volunteer would ask the head of the family whether he belonged to the
backward class. If the respondent said yes, then he would record the
whole family as the backward class. If he said no, then it would not
be recorded. In 1999, many members of backward classes did not know
that they belonged to backward classes. Secondly, the NSSO has no
knowledge of backward classes. The NSSO has experience in matters like
unemployment. But it does not have experience in social dimension,
except in the case of the Scheduled Castes and Tribes. So it came up
with a figure of 36 per cent. Five years later, the same NSSO has
found them to be 42 per cent. Now, both 36 and 42 are much more than
27 per cent. Whether whatever the NSSO said is right or wrong and
whatever Mandal said is right or wrong, how does it affect 27 per cent
reservation? This has been pointed out by the Supreme Court in the
Indra Sawhney judgment.

The National Commission for Backward Classes, headed by Justice S.
Ratnavel Pandian (third left) at a public hearing in Hyderabad on
November 18, 2006.

Do you think a caste census is required?

For reservation, it is not required. It may turn out that the Mandal
figure is an underestimate. Even if a caste census is taken, the last
laugh may not be that of anti-reservationists. The Chairman of the
Mandal Commission, Bindhyeshwari Prasad Mandal, wrote three D.O.
letters to three Home Ministers, one after the other, because there
were three successive governments in quick succession until 1980: H.M.
Patel of Janata government, Charan Singh in the caretaker government
headed by him, and Zail Singh in the Indira Gandhi government,
requesting an up-to-date census with a caste dimension. Before Mandal,
many commissions had bemoaned the absence of caste census because of
the Government of India's policy after Independence to discontinue the
British policy. Right or wrong, you cannot blame the backward classes
for this decision, and deny them their reservation. Caste census is
required to plan how development should proceed, where we should
concentrate, etc.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2407/stories/20070420003901900.htm

PMK for caste-wide census in 2011
Special Correspondent

Ramadoss says it will help to argue case for reservation effectively

— Photo: R. Ragu

FOR A SOCIAL CAUSE: PMK founder S. Ramadoss (centre) with CPI leader
R. Nallakannu (left) and Viduthlai Chiruthaigal Katchi leader Thol.
Thirumavalavan at a function on Sunday.

CHENNAI: Pattali Makkal Katchi leader S. Ramadoss on Sunday demanded a
caste-wise census in 2011 and proportionate reservation for all
communities according to their strength.

Addressing a meeting organised by the Advocates Forum for Social
Justice to felicitate him for his efforts in getting 27 per cent
reservations for OBCs in higher educational institutions run by the
Centre, Dr. Ramadoss said though he had been making the demand for a
caste-wise census for the last 15 years, no one in Tamil Nadu was
supporting him.

“Whenever a case related to the reservation was heard in the Supreme
Court, the Judges questioned the basis for our claim to more
reservation. A caste-based census will help us argue our case
effectively,” he said.

Residential schools

Dr. Ramadoss also urged the State government to set up residential
schools in every district for Backward Class and students belonging to
Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes.

“These schools are necessary to prepare the students to face
competitive examinations and entrance examinations to IITs and IIMs,”
he said. “Brain drain can be stopped only by ensuring the entry of
more and more BC and SC/ST into IITs, IIMs and other higher
educational institutions,” he added.

“A ploy”

Communist Party of India leader R. Nallakannu said the creamy layer
concept was only a ploy to deprive the backward communities and SC/STs
of their chance for access higher education.

“Even after so many years, the government is not able to fill
vacancies in various departments and the backlog is piling up.

The creamy layer would not only deny higher education to the children
of the first generation graduates among the BC and SC/STs, but would
also defeat the very concept of reservation,” he cautioned.

Law needed

Supporting Dr. Ramadoss’ demand for the census, Viduthalai
Chiruthaikal Katchi president Thol Thirumavalavan said there was a
need to enact a law to ensure that courts did not interfere with
reservation related policy issues of governments.

In an era of liberalisation, when 85 per cent of the jobs were in the
private sector, reservation in the sector was the need of the hour. We
should fight to get it, he added. Congress MP E.M. Sudarsana
Natchiappan; P.S. Krishnan, an adviser to the human resource
development (HRD) ministry; PMK president G.K. Mani and Advocate Balu
of the Advocates Forum for Social Justice spoke about the various
aspects of reservations.

Online edition of India's National Newspaper
Monday, Apr 28, 2008
ePaper | Mobile/PDA Version

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/04/28/stories/2008042859611000.htm

Volume 24 - Issue 07 :: Apr. 07-20, 2007

INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE
from the publishers of THE HINDU

COVER STORY

Doubts over data

T.K. RAJALAKSHMI

Surveys by the NSSO and the NFHS classify people on the basis of their
broad responses and do not enumerate the caste categories.

R.V. MOORTHY

In New Delhi, members of the Pattali Makkal Katchi from Tamil Nadu
protest against the Supreme Court verdict.
THE recent Supreme Court order staying the 27 per cent reservation for
Other Backward Classes in admissions to Central higher educational
institutions has raised the issue of the validity of the data
regarding the proportion of OBCs in the population. It was contended
that the 61st round of the National Sample Survey Organisation (NSSO)
placed the OBC population at 41 per cent as against 52 per cent
calculated by the Mandal Commission. The NSSO survey placed the
population of Scheduled Tribes (S.T.s) at 8 per cent and that of the
Scheduled Castes (S.C.s) at 20 per cent.

The court order stated: "The State has to show quantifiable data
showing backwardness of the class and inadequacy of representation of
that class in public employment and existence of compelling reasons,
namely, backwardness, inadequacy of representation and overall
administrative efficiency before making provisions for reservations."

The NSSO has, since its 55th round (1999-2000), been collecting data
on social groupings, covering parameters such as sex ratio, employment
statistics, land-holdings, per capita expenditure and educational
levels. In its 61st round (NSS Report 516, 2004-05), the NSSO
collected information on various facets of the employment and
unemployment situation at the national and State levels through a
schedule of inquiry.

It also collected information on social groups, namely, the S.T.s, the
S.C.s, the OBCs and others, to study specifically the employment or
unemployment situation among them. Given the unequal geographical
dispersal of social groups, barring the S.Ts, who are considered a
more settled community, the population data were only estimates and
not an enumeration of a social group as a percentage of the
population.

In its report, the NSSO stated categorically that the reliability of
State-level results depended critically on sample size. It cautioned
that it used only estimated aggregates as compared with the Census
data on population or projections thereof. The NSSO survey differed
from the Census operations both in coverage and in the methods
adopted. It also pointed out that the scope of the survey was all
households, without special focus on social groups. Besides, its
sample design was not tailored to netting special social groups such
as the S.C.s and the S.Ts.

In fact, even as it lists the proportion of S.T.s, S.C.s and OBCs, the
report points out in a footnote that the NSSO estimates of S.T. and
S.C. households are strictly not comparable with the corresponding
figures available in the Census data on account of the difference in
the definitions adopted. The NSSO classifies a household (and all
persons in it) as S.T., S.C. or OBC entirely on the basis of the
informant's response and not on the basis of any State-level list of
social groups, which is what the Census depends on. Also, the NSSO has
stated that its use of estimated aggregates are, in general, on the
lower side when compared with the Census data.

Differentials of progress

So, what the NSSO prepared in its 61st round was estimates based on
data relating to key indicators of employment and unemployment
collected from people belonging to different social groups. The survey
was done in 8,128 villages and 4,660 urban blocks selected across
States and Union Territories and across rural and urban centres in
proportion to the population as per Census 2001. Significantly, the
survey revealed differentials of progress in socio-economic or
educational indicators among social groups. These differentials, which
reveal the causative factors, are unlikely to be different within the
social group as a whole and can be extrapolated for the entire
population.

The household monthly per capita consumer expenditure (MPCE) was one
of the many indicators the NSSO used to reflect the standard of living
of a household. It calculated that the MPCE was less than Rs.410 in 49
per cent of S.T. households, 40 per cent of S.T. households, 30 per
cent of OBC households and 20 per cent of households categorised as
`others'.

The MPCE was over Rs.1,155 in more `other' households (12 per cent)
than OBC (5 per cent), S.C. (3 per cent) and S.T. (2 per cent)
households. The proportion of households with an MPCE of more than Rs.
2,540 was 13 per cent among `others', 3 per cent each among the S.T.s
and the OBCs and 1 per cent among the S.C.s.

Education levels

As for educational levels, the proportion of persons reporting their
education level as graduate and above was higher among `others' than
among the other categories of persons, irrespective of whether male or
female or rural or urban. The current attendance rate in educational
institutions, that is, the number of persons currently attending
educational institutions per 1,000 persons of the respective social
group and age group, is considered an important social indicator to
assess the state of progress of any particular group of people. The
survey showed that the rate was much higher among children and youth
belonging to the `others' category of households, except among urban
males in the age group of 20 to 24, for whom the rate was the highest
among the S.T.s followed by `others'. Evidently, it was much lower
among the OBCs and the S.C.s.

In the 55th round (1999-2000) of the NSSO, which was one of the
biggest five-yearly surveys, more explicit data emerged on the
proportion of social groups in higher education. Upper-caste Hindus
(UCHs), who make up 37 per cent of the urban population, accounted for
66 per cent of all non-technical subject graduates, 65 per cent of
medical graduates, 67 per cent of engineering and technical graduates
and 62 per cent of graduates in agricultural sciences.

In the total sample of 2.24 lakh persons, 1,359 had engineering
degrees, 908 of them upper-caste Hindus and 202 OBCs (Hindu). Of the
535 doctors in the sample, 350 were upper-caste Hindus and only 56
were Hindu OBCs. Among the 17,501 non-technical graduates, 11,529 were
upper-caste Hindus and 2,402 were OBCs.

The 55th round also collected data, both rural and urban, on the
consumption levels of social groups. Among S.T.s, S.C.s and OBCs, the
level was far less than the accepted average.

Sample surveys by organisations such as the National Family Health
Survey (NFHS) and the NSSO, instead of doing a Census-like headcount,
point out differentials in the progress of socio-economic indicators.
The NFHS and the NSSO surveys classify people on the basis of their
broad responses (in codes) and do not enumerate the caste categories.
This has been pointed out as one of the handicaps of relying on NSSO
and NFHS data to determine the OBC population.

"It is not easy to do an OBC census," said a former Census official
requesting anonymity. For an OBC census, nothing short of a full caste
census would be required in a population of over one billion people.
It has been estimated that this would take not less than five years.
"But if one wants to know the disaggregated OBC population in, say,
Jalgaon, only the Census can give it."

Mandal method

The last time a caste-wise enumeration was done was in 1881 and the
practice was discontinued in 1931. Based on the assumption that the
inter se rate of growth of the population of the various castes,
communities and religious groups over the past half a century has
remained more or less the same, the Mandal Commission worked out the
percentage of these groups constituted as part of the total
population. (Report of the Backward Classes Commission, First Part,
Volumes I and II, 1980.)

The Commission culled out caste/community-wise population figures from
the Census records of 1931 and grouped them into broad caste clusters
and religious groups. These were further aggregated under five heads -
S.C.s and S.T.s; non-Hindu communities, religious groups; forward
Hindu castes and communities; backward Hindu castes and communities;
and backward non-Hindu communities. The population of Hindu OBCs was
derived by subtracting from the total population of Hindus, the
populations of S.C.s, S.T.s and forward Hindu castes and communities.
This worked out to 52 per cent.

In its recommendations, the Commission observed that it was not its
contention that by offering a few thousand jobs to OBC candidates, it
would be possible to take 52 per cent of the population forward. It
was more from the point of view of instilling a sense of participation
that an argument for reservation was made. The NSSO and NFHS data
point out the disparities that exist even today; the data, if
anything, are a desperate call for policy intervention, including
affirmative action.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2407/stories/20070420004301600.htm

cogitoergosum

unread,

May 29, 2010, 8:20:51 PM5/29/10

Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-11/
http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-12/

http://navanavonmilita.wordpress.com/caste-cast-in-stone-sid-harth-13/

A Dangerous Step Backwards
Mary E John, May 28, 2010, 12.00am IST

Tags:panchayat|caste|Caste System|Khap panchayat

The recent notoriety of khap panchayats, the 'community courts' of the
Jats of Haryana and western UP, is easy to understand. Sensational
events like families killing their children in the name of community
honour and being sentenced to death for their crime are obvious media
magnets inviting phrases like "medieval barbarism". But their legal
setbacks and media infamy have only emboldened the khaps, who are now
demanding legal sanction for their caste customs. They want the Hindu
Marriage Act (HMA) to prohibit marriages where both bride and groom
belong to the same gotra.

How should a liberal state that is sensitive to plural traditions
respond to such a demand? Answers depend on an analysis of
implications and stakes.

Far from being a rarity confined to a few 'timeless' Jat villages, the
prohibition on sagotra matches is part of a wider set of rules
regulating marriage practices across the country. Indeed, the
prohibition only makes sense within caste endogamy or the rule that
both partners must be from the same caste. This rule has many sub-
clauses, one of them being the sagotra prohibition, which exclude
specific groups and persons from the marriageable group. In large
parts of north India, caste endogamy is paired with village exogamy,
or the rule that the bride must not be from the same village as the
groom. In fact, most recent incidents of 'honour killings' were
provoked by the violation of the same-caste and different-village
rules rather than the sagotra prohibition.

If the khaps have nevertheless chosen to highlight the gotra issue,
the reasons are strategic. The gotra issue can combine ancient
tradition and modern science, a potent combination in India. It can be
claimed that not marrying within your gotra is the traditional
expression of the rational-scientific need to avoid genetic
inbreeding. Such plausible motives help to deflect attention from what
is really at stake the struggle to regulate everything from community
identities and property rights to the norms of gender and sexuality.
There is nothing medieval about this struggle. The khaps are trying to
cope with the combined effects of a flailing rural economy, changing
caste relations, and emerging youth cultures. The gotra issue becomes
a means for gaining legal sanction, something that the khaps
desperately need to regain their waning power.

The law the khaps want changed, the HMA, is remarkably permissive.
Though it forbids marriages among immediate family members and
descendants, the HMA has no social prohibitions of any kind, certainly
none based on caste, clan or geography. On the contrary, the Act even
allows local customs to override its own prohibitions, stipulating
only that such customs should not be unreasonable or opposed to public
policy.

Should an Act that shuns all social prohibitions be amended to
legalise the prohibitions the khaps insist on? Commentators like Madhu
Kishwar have argued that it should, because this allows the khaps to
exercise legitimate community rights; dissenters can always use the
Special Marriages Act (SMA) instead of the HMA. Despite seeming
reasonable, such proposals harbour undesirable consequences.

The first worrisome consequence concerns the possible legalisation of
caste divisions. Since gotras presuppose caste they exist only within
and not across castes a ban on sagotra marriage presumes that both
partners are from the same caste. Legal manoeuvrings that we cannot
foresee today could lead to a situation where inter-caste marriages
are rendered illegal under the HMA. This would, of course, grossly
violate the vision of Babasaheb Ambedkar, the main architect of the
HMA.

A second troubling possibility is that by bending the HMA to fit their
doctrines, the khaps could gain the right to define Hindu marriage.
This is what is implied when dissenters are offered the SMA in place
of the HMA, because the only substantial difference between the two is
the lack of religious identification in the SMA, which is closely
modelled on the HMA, including similar lists of prohibited relations,
and similar clauses deferring to custom.

Any strategy for positive change must certainly avoid giving legal
sanction to caste-based prohibitions, whatever their claims to
tradition or custom. Nor should we fall into the trap of defining
'honour killings' in order to oppose them. Rather, the challenge is to
break out of these frameworks while enabling communities to face
change with dignity and compassion. Communities acquire authority by
practising the values of custodianship and winning the trust of the
young. This authority is undermined rather than asserted when they
react as the khaps have to eloping couples with boycotts and
harassment, followed by physical violence and murder. It is to shore
up their eroding authority that the khaps are seeking further legal
reinforcement for the enormous extra-legal powers that they already
wield.

Rather than give in to such demands, the law must limit itself to
protecting fundamental freedoms, and minimising the logic of
prohibitions. In the world beyond the law, it is for civil society to
help create an ethos where young people are empowered not only to
choose their life-partners, but also to acquire the resources
necessary to sustain their choices, and above all, the maturity to
choose wisely.

The writer is senior fellow and director at the Centre for Women's
Development Studies.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/A-Dangerous-Step-Backwards/articleshow/5982066.cms

Being Muslim in India means Syeds spit on Julahas in an 'egalitarian
community'
Mohammed Wajihuddin , TNN, May 16, 2010, 12.45am IST

Tags:India|muslim

There is no escape from caste in India. Even the Indian Muslim
practises it. Mohammed Shabbir Ansari of Jalna, Maharashtra, should
know. He founded the All-India Muslim OBC Front, which is leading the
battle against Ashraaf or upper-caste discrimination against Ajlaaf or
lower-caste Muslims.

Ansari recalls how the "Jamaat-e-Islami and other Muslim bodies would
attack me when I said casteism existed among Muslims a decade ago." He
says even highly-educated Muslims practise caste. "A syed family from
Hyderabad called off my second daughter's marriage proposal once the
boy's mother learnt that I belonged to the julaha (weaver's
community)," Ansari says.

Ansari's experience illustrates the basic truths in the seminal study
"Hindustan Mein Zaat-Paat Aur Musalman" (Casteism in India and
Muslims) written by the Lucknow-based scholar Masood Alam Falahi in
2008. Falahi traced the origin of caste practices among Muslims and
named the noted ulema who winked at it. He said the caste system took
root among Indian Muslims after Qutbuddin Aibak founded the Delhi
Sultanate in the 13th century. Sultanate scholars divided Muslims into
Ashraaf and Ajlaaf.

The Ashraaf are Syed, Shaikh, Mughal and Pathan and the Ajlaaf are
Qasai (butcher), Nai (barber), Julaha (weaver). The very lowest
Ajlaafs were Arzaals (sweepers, shoe-makers, etc). Hundreds of years
later, the Sultanate's categorization would be given extra legitimacy
by respected 20th century clerics such as Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi,
who extolled the supremacy of Syeds.

In fact, Muslims' caste-consciousness runs so deep Allama Iqbal
reprimanded them in a couplet: "Yun to Syed bhi ho, Mirza bhi ho
Afghan bhi ho/Tum sabhi kuchch ho batao ke Musalman bhi ho (You are
Syed, Mirza and Afghan/You are everything but Muslim)".

The paradox of Muslim casteism can give rise to extraordinary
situations. Falahi recalls Muslim speakers asking dalit Hindus in
Azamgarh to embrace Islam a few years ago because "everyone is treated
equally here. But a man stood up and said 'there might be no castes in
Islam, there are castes among Indian Muslims'. The speakers had no
answer to that."

Comments (3)

syed pune 17 May, 2010 09:02 PM

the Ajlaafs may say the syeds spit on them but this is not true.caste
among muslims only means that they do not marry below their
caste,otherwise we live as friends,go to each others houses etc. the
point is that they themselves do not marry below their caste then how
can they accuse the syeds of casteismAgree (2)
Disagree (5)

Firoz Chandigarh 17 May, 2010 11:09 PM

I am fully agree with Mr. Sayed that inter-caste marriage (Ashraf-
Ajlaf) is not possible. Here marriage is not a major issue. However,
claim that ashraf-ajlaf live as friend is totally wrong. I have seen
most of ashrafs (not all) always make derogatory remarks before their
ajlaf brothers. Some time they do not hesitate to use abusive
language. In a nut shell Ashraf do not give any respect to the feeling
of their ajlaf brothers.Agree (5)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (4)

Naushad ansari Bangalore 17 May, 2010 05:38 PM

Though Islam is the most egalitarian religion, unfortunately, because
of close contact between Muslims

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/special-report/Being-Muslim-in-India-means-Syeds-spit-on-Julahas-in-an-egalitarian-community/articleshow/5935797.cms

A gene called caste
Atul Sethi & Divya A, May 16, 2010, 12.39am IST

Tags:India|caste

Ideas are fatal to caste

–E M Forster, in A Passage to India

Vineet Mittal is often teased by his friends for being "a baniya".
Kripashankar Pandey's colleagues show their reverence by calling him
'Panditji'. Vishal Singh Rathore's employees always address him as
'Thakur sahab', a clear recognition of his authority. And then there
are people who use caste names to hurl insults at others, particularly
those at the bottom of the pile. India may be an emerging economy but
caste identities remain our mindset. Most "modern" Indians won't admit
it but our conversations and behaviour is peppered with caste
references.

Listen in on the urban, the middle-class, the upwardly-mobile Indian.
Typically, there are jokes that reinforce caste stereotypes. "My
friends who are Sharmas and Guptas often remark — 'We should live like
Ahluwalia (Jats are considered casual and carefree), while I tell them
one should study like Sharma (Brahmins are supposed to be scholars)
and take care of money like Gupta (baniyas are perceived as wealthy
but miserly)," agrees Patiala psychology professor Jasbir Singh
Ahluwalia.

The caste system has existed since the Vedic Age, but it was during
British rule that the census enumerated Indians by caste. The founding
fathers of newly independent India wanted to build a "casteless
society" and decided to do away with it as a category. But it didn't
go away.

India may have changed but Indians have not. Psychologist Nirmal
Sharma in Chandigarh says that India's modernization and cosmopolitan
culture have failed to abolish caste, which is a constant presence in
our lives. "Marriage is the most important decision in an Indian's
life. Look at all the matrimonial ads in newspapers. They are
classified caste wise. Brahmins seek Brahmins and Kshatriyas seek
their own."

Sharma adds that even the New Age media could not break down caste
barriers.

"A host of matrimonial websites cater exclusively to one caste or the
other."

Then there is the proliferation of caste-based organizations such as
the Kshatriya Sabha, Aggarwal Mahasabha, which are ostensibly
"community organizations" but are really no more than caste cliques.
They are patronized by large sections of the middle class, including
politicians and bureaucrats. Sasheej Hegde, professor of sociology at
the University of Hyderabad says this reflects the pattern of social
transformation in India — castes are being transformed into
communities. "This is much more in the political domain than in the
social domain but the tendency could undermine the pluralist basis of
our socio-political order in the long term," says Hegde.

Does that mean that the Indian essentially has the caste gene? "The
fact that we live in a social set-up defined by caste does not mean we
are a casteist society. In fact, not every appeal to caste need
translate into casteism," says Hegde.

Not everyone is so sanguine. A Ramaiah, professor at the Centre for
Study of Social Exclusion & Inclusive Policies at Mumbai's Tata
Institute of Social Sciences, insists that most Indians "are always
conscious of our caste and the nature of our interaction with fellow
Indians depend on the caste he/she belongs to".

Admittedly, this does not always mean all of us discriminate outright
all the time. But it does mean that a study by Indian economist
Sukhdeo Thorat and Princeton University sociologist Katherine Newman a
few years ago found a low-caste surname a great disadvantage when
applying for a job. Applicants with lower-caste surnames would mostly
not even be interviewed.

The casteism affects even the affluent dalit. Rashmi Venkatesan,
daughter of an IAS officer, recounts her nightmarish search for a
house in an upper-caste dominated locality in Bangalore. "I found one
house but the landlord put a condition that I won't cook non-
vegetarian meals on the premises. I agreed and paid some token money.
As I was getting ready to move in, the landlord discovered that I was
a dalit. He immediately returned the advance and said I couldn't have
the house."

But it is the inter-caste marriage — the actual event and its
aftermath — that often reveals the caste gene most starkly.
Psychologist Sharma says that even families that allow such unions,
generally consider the new (out of caste) member of the family "the
outsider and he or she has to make extra effort to mix in...Caste bias
is so deeply entrenched in our psyche that we can't shed it for at
least another 200 years."

Perhaps. But Javeed Alam, Chairman, Indian Council of Social Science
Research, says there is reason to hope Indians' caste gene won't be a
chromosomal cancer for the country. "Caste today is no longer what it
was a few decades ago. Even though caste discrimination is present,
the caste system has died out. In fact, the struggles of the lower
castes have led to the expansion of democracy and the greater
democratization of society."

(With reports from Senthalir S in Bangalore)

Comments (71)

INDIAN INDIA 22 May, 2010 07:11 AM

i think casteism can only be demolished if the quota or privilege
system given to dalits and other castes removed by government and and
the privilege system should be made in accordance with economic
standards of people without any reference to caste or creedAgree (2)
Disagree (3)

Prem Kodali Vijayawada 22 May, 2010 06:47 AM

Do away with the surnames. Just use the name of the father and mother
for identification. Thats the only way you get rid of caste
discrimination. If the government wants caste enumeration, let it be
confined to government records and unidentifiable numbered codes.Agree
(3)
Disagree (2)

Lakshmi Hyderabad 23 May, 2010 10:06 PM
You are from Kamma Community . I know from your last name..Agree (0)

she us 22 May, 2010 06:40 AM
Caste is discussed a lot more in India than in US where it is just as
much, if not more, prevalent in practice. My wife of 40 years is from
an Irish catholic caste and they never accepted me as a part of the
family. Not only that, they never were or are curious about learning
their daughter's husband's heritage. I call it insular caste system
and it is as prevalent in practice here as in India. US politicians do
not talk about it at all but protect it by saying it does not
exist.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)

SR AUH 20 May, 2010 02:51 PM
I would say its the current day government is holding the caste system
to bank upon its votes. If we really want to see a country without
caste system, we should remove the caste and religion columns from
every forms. It is engraved in our system in such a way, that you see
them from birth certificates to play school\KG application form and
moved down till the birth certificate. Remove it from everywhere and
give concession to the ones who are financial poor. I bet no party
will do it as everyone is afraid of their votes.Agree (5)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

AbhaySharma Darlington, U.K 20 May, 2010 12:32 PM
I am not sure that article is non-biased. See, I don't agree with
caste discrimination. But i still believe people belong to same castes
have more things in common. And very truely, castes have their own
genes and traits. Its not a crude generalisation that Baniyas are
truley good with money. Its not fair to call cast system wrong coz i
think most of the times only Dalits seem to complain about it. No
other caste. And i am not saying they are always wrong in their
complaints, but now they get so many concessions from government, they
dont have a write to complain all the time, on every single
issue.Agree (5)
Disagree (5)

Chandra Sekhar Banagalore 20 May, 2010 02:12 PM
Check your last name. Don't you see that you are not mentioning your
caste and get the advantage on situation, the moment you introduce
yourself?. It is other way round for someone from lower caste (I am
not calling as Dalits, because you and your grandpas named them like
that) will be a challenge to overcome your advantage and cross your
performance either in studies or any social event. Just put a question
yourself how many times you gained advantage like this.Agree (5)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (3)

K.S.Ramanujam Sundarnagar - Gokula - Mathikere - Bangalore 20 May,
2010 11:45 AM
Where is the casteless society ? So called casteless torchbearers, the
congress party did not adopt it . In elections, ticket distribution is
on caste base! In reservations, it is on caste basis ! and so on...
The same party has not come out with caste based sensus !! What a
turnabout ! Pseudo behavioural personnel ! The JD(S) chief talks about
non secular and he tiesup with congress, which has gone now with Caste
based senses!!Agree (2)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

M Jalem USA 20 May, 2010 04:58 AM
The British did not try to create a casteless society..They were more
interested in desroying the culture and traditions of ancient India.
Their own class ridden society (read the class analysis of the 3 PM
candidates in the recent election) mkade them the epitomes of the
divide and rule policy. Strength in social cohesion is the more likely
reason of our caste propensities. Remember that upper castes in some
states become the lower castes in others. Western societies are no
less immune to the need to maintain their class/caste distinctions.
The British had a humourous way of putting it. "Sleep wher you can but
marry where you must"Agree (3)
Disagree (2)

Cyber Gurudev Earth 20 May, 2010 02:42 AM
What about every women has child by Artificial
Insemination(Anonymous).No one know child's father identity.We will
have no caste,no race we would be One.Np caste war,no religios war.

Farsighted Maharastra,India. 20 May, 2010 12:57 AM
What the high castes have and the low castes don't.If the low castes
be given equal opportunities,they will do better than the
discriminating high castes.When I was at school I often
heard,"..stupid as an Irishman,,,"Agree (2)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

Roy Mumbai 18 May, 2010 04:46 PM
The downtrodden in our country want the caste system to be abolished,
but reservations to stay. On the other hand, the upper castes do not
want the caste system to be abolished per se but they favour
reservations to be abolished or be granted reservation benefits. Going
by this, we can assume that 'caste system' is here to stay, but
'Casteism' the prejudicial cousin may loose its venom over a period of
time.Agree (4)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

Nitin Bahrain 18 May, 2010 11:47 AM
I do not think there is anything seriously wrong other than the narrow
minded racism. As a learned society, we need to understand what is
caste in real sense beyond the carried over mindsets. In my
views:Agree (2)
Disagree (5)

Nitin Bahrain 18 May, 2010 12:22 PM
To ToI - You have posted only 2-3 initial sentences I wrote. Missing
next 10 lines lead to an altogether different meaning to this message.
Why don't you post the full message if you want to. Else please do not
publish at all.Agree (4)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Viswanath Cochin 18 May, 2010 09:38 AM
The caste system is a catalyst to our politicians in their ever ending
greed. With growing number of regional chauvinism, our country is
heading for a catastrophe. Unfortunately, the leaders are not
realizing the impending danger under the illusion of power
politicking ! It is true that the founding fathers visualized a
casteless society. But their followers had forgotten them long ago.
May better sense prevail.Agree (4)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

Vijay Rajurs USA 18 May, 2010 06:18 AM
Breeding within a community, caste or linguistic group within a
community over many centuries evolved into distinct gene pools that
resulted into accumulation of certain characteristics having genetic
basis. Thus evolved cultural differences within a community. Out bree/
ding became a taboo and continues to be so in communities at large It
will be too naive to expect a sea change in a short period of 60
years. Sociologists need to base their research on these lines.Agree
(3)
Disagree (1)

mini_mathur Perth 18 May, 2010 05:45 AM
Yes caste is bane for our society, I have seen me and my friends face
bias one way or the other( some face advantage while others face
crtical unwarrented comments) due to their surname, the logic is
supposed to be the family conditons their thinking and behaviour so if
you are from such and such a family then u must be liek this,
"Education can expand horizon but cannot straigten the narrow
mind"Agree (4)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Karuna Pune 17 May, 2010 10:30 PM
If we keep religion based census and gender based census, Why
should'n't we keep caste based census?Agree (2)
Disagree (3)

uct hyd 17 May, 2010 04:42 PM
Whether caste base census is required or not required that is separate
issue. But without casteism, many more political leaders like
MAYAVATI, RAMVILAS PASWAN, MULAYAM SINGH YADAV, LALU PRASAD YADAV have
to retire from politics. They have not any idealogy to change or
reform the society. They are doing politics in the name of caste only
for their own benefits. As long as these types of leaders are in
India, India can't be freed from, casteism system as well as
povertyAgree (3)
Disagree (3)

Shweta Subhedar Pune 17 May, 2010 02:59 PM
I think this caste discrimination resides even in the Indian
constitution in the form of reservation.Agree (4)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (1)

biplop Delhi 17 May, 2010 11:17 AM
Those who are the victim of the system will definitely try to demolish
it and no doubt one day they will be success.Agree (3)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

INDU Noida 17 May, 2010 10:11 AM
I think it is basic nature of human beings to form groups of
similarities in what they do, behave, speak, how they live etc. And
that is how countries, kingdoms, caste, race, etc formed. There is
nothing wrong or right about this. But when it comes to census taken
by a Govt or a ruling body, they shld not include this as there is a
possibility that people are discriminated as afterall Govt is also a
group of humans. this is ensure all the people get equal rights and
services of Govt in a country. India is miles far from this with the
kind of political set up in out Country.Agree (2)
Disagree (2)

R.a.j.i.v. B'lore 17 May, 2010 10:09 AM
India is going straight to DOGS....Agree (4)
Disagree (2)

ishnu bangalore 17 May, 2010 10:05 AM
Caste discrimination exists in India, till cast based reservations
exist. To eradicate this, there should be a caste refining system, by
which the caste of person changes with his profession, because
profession is basis for Hindu caste system.Agree (4)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

Karthik Singapore 17 May, 2010 10:03 AM
Caste is intertwined with food and living style, and also physical
appearance. Brahminism means Vegetarianism, Giving priority to
Education and being religious. Baniya means giving priority to money
and building a mansion. Dalits are hard core non vegetarians and have
a life style of their own.Agree (2)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (1)

Prasad Tate London 18 May, 2010 08:08 AM
You got issues man, I am a Kshatriya (not that I care) but I eat beef.
So do several of my friends who are bramhins. and I know several of my
so called "lower caste"Agree (4)
Disagree (1)

Ritesh Kharagpur 17 May, 2010 03:18 PM
What's the logic to say about food habits of different castes?It's
just ridiculous. I know many dalits who are vegeterian, on the other
hand, many upper caste persons who are hard core non-vegeterians.
Please don't conclude anything without any logical arguement. People
with such illogical arguements are like living in a well, not willing
to come out and see the world.Agree (4)

ravi Hyderabad 17 May, 2010 02:05 PM
Please read History. Brahmins used to delight in eating all kinds of
non-veg including cows. Only after the Buddhidt revolution which
destroyed Brahminism, did the Brahmins stop eating cows and even other
animals to prove themselves better. Does physiacl appearnce show a
persons caste? Please leave the company of the upper-castes and
someday venture into the real India. Interact with "lower caste"Agree
(5)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (3)

Jay K Kolkata 17 May, 2010 09:20 AM
The British colonists have subverted Indian brains, by forcibly
imposing 4 Varna categories on the entire population from 1901 census.
This has led to the erroneous belief that the whole Indian society was
always divided rigidly and hierarchically into the 4 or 5 categories.
Indian society has thousands of economically, socially and politically
mobile Jatis, which have given it great stability and economic
advantage. Thanks to this, India was the wealthiest country in the
world, with a dominating share of world trade, right upto 1750, till
the British took over. Jati is the best thing that ever happened to
India and we should all be proud of it and encourage this celebration
of diversity. Caste is dead. Long live Jati!Agree (2)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (1)

Nitin Bahrain 18 May, 2010 12:52 PM
I agree with you. Castes were actually a scientific way of studying
human behaviour, consumption, genetic developement however British
took advantage. We, now a s a learned society, need to understand what
is good in it rather than what is bad. "Jati"Agree (0)
Disagree (2)

VN india 17 May, 2010 09:19 AM
I dont know in which age you guys all are in , come to cities , every
second marriage happens out of caste , even inter-religion marriages
are picking up , caste in our country will surely dissappear within
one or two generations. thats the beauty of us indians , we accept
anything good without thinking muchAgree (4)
Disagree (3)

ravi hyderabad 17 May, 2010 02:00 PM
I dont know why U deny the realty of today. Please go thru any
matrimonial column even the NRI's. Even the so-called cosmopolitan
category qualify their "cosmopoltianism"Agree (4)
Disagree (1)

SUJ Canada 17 May, 2010 08:44 AM
It is a sad tragic side of our so called proud Indian heritage we have
inherited thru our blood.Agree (3)

Tiloo Toronto 17 May, 2010 08:18 AM
Casteism / Racism are unique to human race and are creation of
nature / manipulation of politicians / bureaucrates/ Game of Haves
ruling the Haves not. It is a irreversible time tested process.Agree
(2)
Disagree (1)

Ram Sydney 17 May, 2010 07:59 AM
The Caste System was probably born out of people's professions and
then certain sections that were politically more powerful took
advantage of the situation to carve a niche caste out for themselves.
However, we will not achieve anything by caste system bashing. There
is nothing wrong if people have a certain preference when it comes to
marriage or renting a house. It is wrong only when the State
discriminates between different sections. Today I see the Indian
government as the biggest discriminator, because it recognizes caste
on all its official forms, statements etc. If the State is really
interested in a casteless system, lets rephrase our approach towards
empowerment and then revisit this article.Agree (1)
Disagree (4)

ravi hyderabad 17 May, 2010 01:57 PM
Casteism is not a question of mere preferences. It is an exploitative
system at least for majority at the bottom. Please ask them who is the
real negative discriminator. It is the society not the government
(which is a positive discriminator)Agree (3)
Disagree (1)

A.M.Elangovan Chennai 17 May, 2010 01:29 PM
If you feel it is okay to have preference in marraige or renting
house, which will lead to isolation of the oppressed people from
mixing with others, then caste system can never be eradicated.Agree
(3)
Disagree (1)

adk 17 May, 2010 07:45 AMPlease research yourselves... (copy paste in
your browser):Agree (0)

Madhava Rao Puducherry 17 May, 2010 07:32 AM
Casts still prevail in almost all the areas except perhapsAgree (1)

Sam USA 17 May, 2010 05:49 AM
it is not the caste, it is human nature. In a research in america,
most white female preferred only white male for online dating
websites. The arabs consider iranians and other muslims as lesser and
not that "pure"Agree (1)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (1)

ravi hyderabad 17 May, 2010 09:18 AM
This is a false analogy. Dating is based on physical and other
preferences.On the other hand, caste is hereditary. One is born into a
caste and thus there is no relation to one's looks, manners etc.Agree
(4)
Disagree (1)

Antra California 17 May, 2010 01:44 AM
Caste system is the only reason that indian could never climb up the
ladder of being a developed country . .Agree (4)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (2)

Bangalore Bangalore 16 May, 2010 11:28 PM
Caste is based on aptitude and vocation but not on gene:Agree (2)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (3)

ravi hyderabad 17 May, 2010 09:35 AM
Who said caste is based on aptitude and vocation but not gene? Does a
dalit student who acquires a PhD become a Brahmin. Has the Kanchi
Shankaracharya Shri Jayendra Saraswati - accused of murder and
definetly guilty of maintaining ilicit realtions with a divorcee -
lost his Caste or even lost his status as Kanchi Shankaracharya?Agree
(6)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (3)

Komal Prasad Gupta Patiala 16 May, 2010 10:40 PM
Caste system is cancer to the society and eradication of system needs
surgical approach. Though India is playing vital role in shaping up
the future of global economicy but our society is still living in
medieval world. I agree with the columnist that Caste bias is so
deeply entrenched in our psyche that we can't shed it for at least
another 200 years.Agree (4)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (2)

wisdom of india mumbai, india 16 May, 2010 10:13 PM
Our ancestors designed the caste system to make it easier for children
to make career decisions and help families ensure purity in lineages.
Discrimination against caste and joking about it is a fallacy.Agree
(2)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (1)

ravi hyderabad 17 May, 2010 08:57 AM
Yes. The caste system may be a career decsion for the upper-castes who
form the minority in India. However fr the majority (the bahujans) -
the so called lower castes - it was and still is, a pure system of
exploitation. This exploitation is physical, mental, financial. The
career decsions of the so-caled "upper castes"Agree (4)
Disagree (2)

K India 22 May, 2010 01:34 AM
Those days of exploitations are long gone. It happens the other way
round now. Huge Reservations in almost every sector on the basis of
surname is disgraceful.Agree (0)
Disagree (1)

Gautam USA 17 May, 2010 06:22 AM
Urs is wisdom of assholes, not of India.Agree (4)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)

Born Free India 17 May, 2010 09:42 AM
That is a bit offensive. Brahmins cannot do manual labour -- they are
weak people. Dalits are strong.Agree (2)
Disagree (2)

Born Strong India 20 May, 2010 02:35 PM
Then Brahmins can take help in many areas like giving births etc.Agree
(2)
Disagree (0)
Recommend (1)

Tanya India 17 May, 2010 02:37 AM
Every individual has a right to choose and make his/her career
decision and should not be imposed or made based on caste. The whole
caste system itself is a cruel and injustice done on certain section
of the society in indian history. It took away an individual's freedom
to live there own life. "ABOLISH CASTE SYSTEM"Agree (3)

Amol Bangalore 16 May, 2010 09:57 PM
I completely disagree with author here, the caste system in India is
very much alive and it has not died. This all is alive because we are
categorized based on it since the time a child is admitted to school.
Later we realize at every stage that we belong to certain caste and
system treats us accordingly. This is very evident every stage -
admission to educational institutes, Govt jobs, promotions and most
importantly for marriage alliances. The system really sucks and should
be stopped. You go to smaller towns or villages, people are even
killed on this basis. We might say stuff and try to create impression
that we are a free society but when it comes to caste, we have a very
formal system in place which honors the caste system with upmost
importance. Until the day this goes away, we are a stupid caste based
society and thats the real truth and should be accepted.Agree (4)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)

Ska Hyd 16 May, 2010 05:32 PM
How did the landlord discover that Rashmi Venkatesan was a dalit? The
name certainly does not reveal anything. Such conversations shouldn't
be allowed to be brought up. There should be no Govt record of any
individual's caste. A person should only be judged by how he behaves
with others and his hygienic habits. Community should only be
considered if he comes from one which encourages terrorism and killing
of others. I don't think you can attribute the 'No Non-veg meals'
condition to caste discrimination.Agree (1)
Disagree (3)

Shail Delhi 17 May, 2010 09:34 AM
Acctually she is right... People overthere do such kinds of crap...
dont believe it, go to chennai n b'lore, u'l find plenty..Agree (1)

prodeep meerut 16 May, 2010 04:22 PM
these teasers are universal in nature which is inherent in expression
in australia they refer people from punjab these ponjobis should be
dealt with and ,in north india dirty fish eating bengali,if happen to
eat non veg on tuesday in north india then he is for sure a shudra so
for them it seems that every south guy or a bong guy is a lower caste
person tuesdays may not be having much significance india or bengal or
north east so they are not bhakt ,they are asuri(demonish) shakti as
they are not abiding tuesday restriction on non- veg items.face wise
mongloid looking north east people are maltreated ,harrased,calling
them dog eating chinkies but i feel india is represented by north
indians only rest are rank outsiders caste,creed race have their
illeffects when a person /family resides outside.fellow feeling is
overemphasized and so is aversion and hatred.or else you become like
them so every time there is some element of force teasing you.Agree
(3)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (0)
OffensiveBorn Free India 16 May, 2010 03:58 PM
Caste sucks - unless you are interviewing Sharma. Mayawati should
support the abolition of casteism. Isn't she a true leader of Dalit?
Isn't she working for the upliftment of the downtrodden? Doesn't she
know what is right for them? Why should we continue the caste idiocy?
It will work against all the ideals of Baba Ambedkar. It is a setback
to social reform. When will India ever learn. Do you want to see a
better India?Agree (4)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (2)

tipu Lusaka 16 May, 2010 03:54 PM
I like the article, being proud of your caste does not mean that one
descriminate against each other caste. I donot think that caste system
will ever go, because Indian is a democratic country and the caste
system does not interfere with the democracy, infact it is insync with
it. During a marraige when all long distnce relative assemble, they
have plenty to talk about but an other caste boy/gal who has joined
because of marraige has nothing to talk about and feel aleinated and
makes his/her sspouse also uncomfortable and are unable to mix and
bond.And todays day a upper caste has less chance to get admission in
engg/medical/IAS etc than the so called lower class. Our arranged
marraige has greater success because our boy/gals go to similar
culture and instantly feel at home. We should try to preserve what is
unique to us rather than follow some western idiology, who also have
their own us and them system, something like those who have and those
who have not, which is very discrimnating.Agree (2)
Disagree (5)

sawant pune 16 May, 2010 03:40 PM
Caste system has been reinforced by our political system. Our founding
fathers failed to see what they are doing to future generations of
this country by introducing caste based reservations. The learned
persons of India may refuse to accept this. But let me narrate my own
example. As a middle class Indian growing in Mumbai in the 60s, caste
was never an issue. It was never discussed or mentioned in our house
and I believe it wasn't in the houses of all my friends. We were all
very happy in our caste ignorance. In the 70s, all of us young men and
women appeared for our inter-science exams. Some did well and some did
not do so well. Some of us did not get admission to courses they
wished inspite of doing fairly well while others got in though they
did not do well enough. This is when we realised that there is a caste
system at work. And believe it or not, some of our friends drifted
apart and we started discussing caste again. I have made a conscious
effort not to discuss caste with my child but it is difficult with the
media constantly talking about caste equations at every opportunity. I
will leave it to the readers decide what is best for our country.Agree
(3)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

Rajesh UK 16 May, 2010 02:36 PM
I have been out of India for some time now. The Caste in India is one
form of discremination. The other countries like UK, which we suppose
have no casts, have different form of discremination. They are also
fighting to get rid of this.Agree (1)
Disagree (0)
Recommend (1)

.krishna usa 16 May, 2010 11:23 AM
The book available in Chennai libraries, Native life of Travancore by
Rev. Samuel Mateer F L S lived in Kerala, published in 1883 in London,
ISBN 8120605144 has a chapter called Syrian Christians from page 158.
Mateer found that none of the converts known as Kerala Syrian
christians have heard of Jesus Christ and does not know why a cross
was being worshiped and they all still following Hindu gods and even
bury their leaders vertically, a practice the Syrian Christian follow
to bury their bishops even today. So these converts moved in to
Chennai and created the fake St Thomas story for social upliftment. We
should come out of our fixation with all religions. Congress already
submitted that there is no evidence of Lord Rama existence. There is
no historical evidence for Mohammad and the fiction was created and
the mantle of Prophet was fitted on an unknown who lived150 years
earlier. Jesus Christ was created by writer Esubius in AD325 and
divinity was given by a committee.Agree (2)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

n.krishna usa 16 May, 2010 10:55 AM
For India to progress we should have Common civil code.Either all
religious structures including church and church properties, mosque
and mosque properties should be under the government control, or
totally all including hindu temples should be given back to Hindus.
Scrap all reservations based on caste and religion and in its place
have only financial based reservation for jobs and education. Ban all
type of religious conversions. Religion is an outdated concept that
trapped humans to become slaves in some imaginary gods, for a group
that enjoy the labour of these slaves. The present day example is the
life of nuns and priests who waste their precious one time life for an
imaginary non existent heaven after death. Availability of free
education upto post graduate level for all deserving and economically
weaker sections. All inflow of foreign funds should be transparent.
Scrap the Haj and Betheleham subsidyAgree (5)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (1)

.krishna usa 16 May, 2010 10:43 AM
The caste is a word coined by the british, instead of profession, like
they did with the fake Aryan invasion theory was to degrade and
convert Hindus to Christianity. The caste census beingmooted at
present is with this view. The younger generation,have hardly anything
to do with castes, whether they are Hindus, Christians, or muslims.
The word caste is being used today for votes and conversion. Mariamman
and Aiyappan are two Deities, of ST SCs, as evidenced by the
Sabarimala pilgrimage and Melmaruvaththur pilgrimage. ST SCs are the
targeted for conversion, the Churches come out with literatures,
pamphlets and books denigrating Goddess Amman and Swami Aiyappan and
ridiculing their worship. A converter, Theivanayagam founded Diravida
Aanmeega Iyakkam or Movement of Dravidian Spiritualism to convert SC
STs. The genetic and archilogical studies have proved that there was
no Aryan invasion and the main Arayans are the Tamils who celebrate
the Jallikkattu or bull fight even today.Agree (3)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

.P.G. Vallabhan Cochin 16 May, 2010 10:32 AM
Cast consideratons have infected Indian political and Governmental
system like cancer through the process of communal reservatons. No
forward community person can aspire for any of the top positions in
Indian Government. The forward communities face stark discrimination
in goverment jobs and nomination to high offices. Caste nowadays has
become more than a gene; it is a full chromosome.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

.krishna usa 16 May, 2010 10:24 AM
The unfortunate thing was that Mahatma Gandhi was also British
educated, trained as a lawyer and had little or no knowledge about the
ancient Vedic philosophy, history or culture. What little Gandhi knew
about Vedic philosophy was mostly thought to him by Vinoba Bhave, an
avid freedom fighter, a devoted supporter of the Mahatma who was a
Hindu monk and a highly educated Brahman who among other things spoke
14 languages. It was Vinoba Bhave who connected GandhiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s
political views with Vedic values and philosophy that gained such a
wide appeal and the support of the Indian masses. If Gandhi would have
had a better grasp of Vedic Philosophy he would have been able to
counter many of these British myths and instead of being an apologist
he could have challenged and defeated the British, the most classist
society, at their own game.Agree (3)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (1)

n.krishna usa 16 May, 2010 10:23 AM
The word caste is an English word. The Sanskrit word for caste is
Varna and it means vocation or occupation and does not mean caste as
it does in the English interpretation or translation of the term.
Likewise, untouchable meant not to go near them, dont touch them, dont
intermarry with them and dont corrupt their culture dont try to
conform them. Leave them alone. Indian Social Structure as it was
depicted in the Vedas Millenniums ago, made it an edict to leave
Tribals and Adivasis alone and not to impose Hindu religion, culture
or values on them and that is the reason why we have tribals and
adivasis with their own social structure and habitats unlike in
nations invaded by the Christian missionaries, that eliminated the red
Indians, aborgines of Australaia in the nake of civilization.Agree (3)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (1)

Gautam USA 17 May, 2010 06:24 AM
If millennium old Hindu scripture says untouchables should not be
touched, I would rather not touch Hindu scriptures and touch them and
piss you, corrupt, bigot - shame of human race. You should be hanged
for crime against humanity.Agree (6)
Disagree (2)

Offensiven.krishna usa 16 May, 2010 10:18 AM
Caste system in the British and some European societies, where the
nobility still exist, is much worse than it is in India today, where
all noble titles have been abolished. There is birthright inheritance
of title, social status for the British Nobility and the Landed Gentry
and they are guaranteed perpetual political power by inheriting a peer
ship and a seat in the British House of Lords, the highest legislative
body of UK. There is no truly egalitarian society in the christian
west today or anywhere for that matter. No ordinary Britain can drink
at the local pub with any Lord or can have tea with Prince Phillip.
English nobility are distinctly noticeable by their education and
grooming in institutions such as Wetherby, Ludgrove, and Eton or the
Royal Academy at Sandhurst. They even speak a different language, the
Kings English, free from colloquialism and dialects distinctly
separating them, and distinguishing them from ordinary commoners, as
soon as they open their mouths.Agree (2)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (1)

n.krishna usa 16 May, 2010 10:16 AM
India should ban all types of caste surmames. Classifying people on
the basis of castes whether it is in Hinduism, among christianity or
in Islam should be banned. We should not use the word Dalit. All types
of reservations should be abolished. As the education is a fundamental
right there is no need for reservation. Higher education should be
based on merit and no reservation of any kind should be given. All
benifits to a student should be based on financial condition. Complete
food subsidy for anyone below poverty level should be provided. Job
guarantee for BPL families to be provided. Resevation of all types
including that based on religion should be banned for elections.
Initially the reservation was meant for a very short duration but it
is still going on. Every one wants reservation including muslims and
Christians. In its the Hindu SC ST reservation is fully occupied by
Christians by submitting the SC ST certificates.Agree (5)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

Gautam USA 16 May, 2010 09:44 AM
Root cause is Brahmins, who, for centuries treated the rest as Hitlar
used to treat Jews. But that is past. Main problem in India is that,
our Founding Fathers did not do enough to remove caste-system.
Afterwards the intellectual level of leaders is so low, you cannot
expect them to remove any social malaise. While mind cannot be
controlled by law, acts certainly can be. If India could have honest
and proper law and order, any discrimination could have been
immediately reported to the police for a solution. I have seen my
Indian friend calling police in California, when a white man called
him 'Hail Hitlar'Agree (5)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (2)

Sanket Mumbai 16 May, 2010 09:35 AM
On deputation to a commodity promotion council at Calcutta as CEO
under the Government of India in 1980s, I initiated process to recruit
some hands in C

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/special-report/A-gene-called-caste/articleshow/5935778.cms

My caste is Indian, says Amitabh Bachchan
IANS, May 12, 2010, 01.01pm IST
ArticleComments (431)Post a commentEmail this articlePrint this

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Tags:Aishwarya Rai|amitabh bachchan|Harivansh Rai Bachchan
Amitabh Bachchan More Pics

MUMBAI: While the debate over caste census intensifies with most
parties rooting for it, Bollywood star Amitabh Bachchan is clear where
he stands on the controversial issue. If ever asked to mention his
caste, he says categorically, he would be ready with the answer --
Indian.

Census enumerators came calling on the Bachchan household, prompting
Amitabh to express his views on the issue of caste census.

"Wary of the sensitivity that this has raised recently by politicians,
they keep away from it. They reason that they would wait for some
government decision on this. I tell them irrespective of what the
system decides, my answer is ready - caste, Indian," he wrote on his
blog bigb.bigadda.com.

Big B says that his father, Harivansh Rai Bachchan, a noted Hindi poet
and litterateur, never believed in caste system.

"My Father never believed in caste and neither do any of us. He
married a Sikh (Teji Bachchan), I married a Bengali (Jaya Bhaduri), my
brother a Sindhi (Ramola), my daughter (Shweta) a Punjabi (Nikhil
Nanda), my son (Abhishek) a Mangalorean (Aishwarya Rai)... in his
autobiography he (Harivansh Rai) had expressed that future generations
of his family should marry into different parts of the country. So far
that tradition has been kept alive!!"

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has said the government will soon take a
decision on caste-based census in the country.

Amitabh recounts the morning the enumerators came to his house.

"From the morning a consensus on the census. Officials from the BMC,
the Bombay Municipal Corporation, troop into Prateeksha to detail in
on information that shall for the first time in India develop for
every citizen the UID - a Unique Identity Card.

"All kinds of information is sought name, place, age, dependents,
place of birth, house, residence years and on. I wait for them to come
to the crucial controversial one - caste. They don't."

Deputy leader of opposition in the Lok Sabha Gopinath Munde, Rashtriya
Janata Dal (RJD) chief Lalu Prasad, Samajwadi Party (SP) chief Mulayam
Singh Yadav and Janata Dal-United (JDU) president Sharad Yadav are
amongst those demanding that caste be registered during the census
exercise.

Comments (431)

|Recommended (91)|

Jugnu Sharma Portugal 14 May, 2010 06:08 PM
What Mr.Amitabh bachchan is sayin all Indians must feel it instead of
making fun of what he has said.Those who are laughing they don't know
how stupid they look.Agree (3)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

M M Khan Dammam 14 May, 2010 11:53 AM
Dear Mr. Bachchan start writing "Amitabh Indian"Agree (3)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)
Offensivesundaresan chennai 14 May, 2010 10:32 AM
Fantastic thought and hats off Mr. Big 'B', when even the political
leaders bowed on the pressure and not even dared to question, it came
off from such a big personality and a welcome not.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

RAMAN LAL RANIGA VANCOUVER 13 May, 2010 10:31 PM
WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS NOT YET BHAGWAAN BUT EVERY HUMAN DOES HAVE SOME
FRAILTY SO HUMANLIFE IS A JOURNEY TO CORRECT OUR FRAILTY AND BECOME
SABBHO KA PREMMEEAgree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Shantanu USA 13 May, 2010 10:06 PM
Even the most rudimentary of understandings of the Scriptures shows
that caste, in the Western sense (no social mobility etc) does not
actually exist! Unfortunately years of Muslim and British oppression
have created a community where accepting of things not even existent
has become the norm. Hopefully we'll see progress from this backwards
practice introduced by these oppressive foreigners.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

lightning bolt space time 13 May, 2010 08:25 PM
I dont care what amitabh has to say. he is just an ordinary person.
all these so called celebrities are extremely ordinary people who are
only creation of media. we should not look up to them. they have the
same frailties and weaknesses of everyday people. amitabh was silent
like the rest of bollywood when raj thackeray and his gundas were
attacking north indians. in any other civilized country, this criminal
thackeray would be rotting behind bars. sachin tendulkar was also
silent and recently attended some function on raj thackerays request.
so, these people like sachin etc. are extremely ordinary with no real
guts or anything to stand up against violence or assault or anything.
sachin is anyway 10th class fail and just hitting ball with bat does
not make anyone great person. so they are good in their profession
maybe, but otherwise they are pretty much extremely ordinary, weak
with a thousand faults just like anyway. so i consider people who look
up to them as stupid people. thats all. oh and by the way i consider
india to be a failed country with no sense of national identity, not
to mention the corruption and illteracy and filth and lack of human
rights and dignity all round.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

LUSHALA INDIA 13 May, 2010 12:23 PM
EVOLVE HUMAN TO PERFECT PREMMEE LIKE OUR MAKER BHAGWAAN SABBHO KA
JEEVAN JYOTIAgree (2)

Recommend (1)

Deepak Nagpur 13 May, 2010 12:01 PM
We also declared us as Indian (Bhartiya) when asked about caste by
Census enumeratorsAgree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Mannu Guj 13 May, 2010 10:36 AM
Lalu and Mulayam are the biggest enemy of this country. They created
ruckus in the parliament for caste based census to prove himself
messiah of OBCs. What kind of messiah... they are just
traitor...weakening India day by day...Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Haseeb US 13 May, 2010 09:58 AM
Every Indian's caste is "arrogant"Agree (2)
Disagree (2)

sandeep TX, US 13 May, 2010 11:45 AM
Arrogant is better than terrorist!!!Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Vikram Bangalore 13 May, 2010 11:16 AM
Every Pakistani's caste is Terrorist.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

SC Delhi 13 May, 2010 09:47 AM
this guy Amitabh Bacchan was responsible for instigating 1984 anti
sikh riots. He may not believe in caste but surely that black mark and
his recent alignment with Narendra Modi leave a lot of
questions .Agree (1)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (1)

SG AU 13 May, 2010 06:29 AM
I do agree.Agree (2)
Disagree (0)
Recommend (1)

RK Patna, Bihar 13 May, 2010 05:16 AM
60 years passed, instead of moving to a casteless society, we are
exacerbating such differences. No injustice can justify another
injustice, we must understand.Agree (2)

Recommend (1)

kshitij kota,india 13 May, 2010 04:59 AM
My cast is humanAgree (2)

Recommend (1)

Hites London 13 May, 2010 03:43 AM
I am a Brahmin with three brothers. We were taught by our father that
be proud of what we are. Also taught us that being Brahmin means learn
and learn to respect all human being irrespective of who they are. If
any one who studies well and respect other will/should automatically
becomes Brahmins. What's wrong being Brahmin and thus other caste.
Just respect others. That's the caste syetm, and I am proud of
it.Agree (1)
Disagree (2)

An Indian Hyd 13 May, 2010 01:02 PM
But did'nt you give it a class status and declared some of them as
untouchables and you say what's wrong with being other caste,
common.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Albert gangtok 13 May, 2010 03:14 AM
My Caste is India too. I am a Catholic from Kerala, born and brought
up in Sikkim, studied my college in Kolkata and will work and live in
Bangalore. And it may come as a surprise to many, but I really dont
know my caste. I ma an Indian.Agree (3)

Recommend (1)

Nabeel Canada 13 May, 2010 03:05 AM
I request Mr. Amitabh Bachan to go one step ahead in the right
direction (in which he is in), remove his last name Bachan and change
it to Amitabh s/o Harivansh. I dream of a day when there will be no
names with Gupta, Sharma, Khan, Siddiqui, Singh, Kaur, Goyal, Qureshi
anymore. The names should be <first name> s/o <father's/mother's first
name>. When this happen, we may truly eradicate caste system from our
racist nation. These last names are reason for the false pride that
people carry and not look at the other human with one eye.Agree (3)
Disagree (1)

Raju Hyderabad 13 May, 2010 09:30 PM
Let Mr. Bachan go a little further and open his gates to all, who may
wish to visit him. Let us observe what happens. Many people in his
household married people of different regions because of love and this
is common in Film field, nothng great about it.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Anil Gafoor Bombay 12 May, 2010 11:30 PM
Amitabh is untouchable..Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Ushnish Dasgupta Delhi 12 May, 2010 11:24 PM
He is right. Our politicians are ready to divide this country in terms
of caste for their own gain.My caste is INDIAN.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

P.V.Namjoshi Ujjain. 12 May, 2010 10:39 PM
He is right. We had pledged ourself to casteless society but now we
shall have caste based society and there after class war. This is all
done to appease SC_ST_OBC and Muslims.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

aditya mumbai 13 May, 2010 01:42 PM
im an obc and im not pleased.every indian worth his salt must be
against this census.Agree (2)

Recommend (1)

Dr.Zubair bangalore 13 May, 2010 06:01 AM
Mr.Namjoshi please dont cry muslims cause as a matter of fact in
comparison to the hindu caste reservation muslims get a meagre obc
(tat too is economically backward). who else can say this than me who
had to suffer seeing students with poor ranks getting a seat in med
councelling cause of reservation while i having a fantastic rank in
comparison had to wait for my turn finally ending up taking a seat
away from home--- all cause i was a general merit candidate.Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

lsekhar seattle, USA 12 May, 2010 10:30 PM
It is an incorrect statement. His caste, as is mine is "Human"Agree
(2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Capt.Guru Bangalore 12 May, 2010 10:07 PM
I second what Amitabh has stated. I am a proud Indian first, then
anything else.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

R.Bhatia Haridwar-India 12 May, 2010 10:03 PM
"If ever asked to mention his caste, he says categorically, he would
be ready with the answer -- Indian. "Agree (1)
Disagree (0)
Recommend (1)

Human India 12 May, 2010 10:01 PM
Its high time the Uniform Civil Code gets implemented so that all
caste / religion/ gender based thinking come to an end. This act of
Amitabh should be emulated by fellow Indians. Indian Government should
reward him for this.Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

OffensiveBhaskar Dallas 12 May, 2010 09:40 PM
In all those cross cultural marriages that the Bachchan family is
rightfully proud of, did they invite a "Brahmin"Agree (1)
Disagree (2)

Abhi Abhi 12 May, 2010 10:56 PM
Why the f should he invite a Brahmin? He does not believe in caste
system....you dudAgree (1)

Recommend (1)

Aadarsh bangalore 13 May, 2010 10:29 AM
Your profanities aside, i'm sure they invited a brahmin to officiate
as a priest at the weddings. But that still doesn't paint the bacchan
family as casteist...becuase, they felt the need for a 'priest' at
their weddings, and the only ones that understood their rituals were
'brahmins'....if in the future there come to be priests of a non-
brahmin origin that can just as well conduct all the rituals, i don't
see any reason for the Bacchans, or anybody else, to have an issue
with it.Agree (2)

Recommend (1)

Roger Toronto 12 May, 2010 09:40 PM
Mr. Bachchan has shown patriotism and leadership by clearly declaring
that he and his family do not believe in caste. He needs to be
cogratulated for it. No one has control over what caste they are born
in and no one can easily change it. Individuals should be recognized
by contents of their characters not their caste. I wish other
prominent Indian come out and take leadership in this regard and work
towards eliminating such practices that unnecessarily devide the
society. Hinduism need to continue to be eveolved and get rid of the
oudated caste system.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

GB US 12 May, 2010 09:34 PM
I long for the day when every government forms in every state will
remove the caste and religion questions for an applicant. We will
remain mired in caste/religion divide till then. Young Indians do not
care - so let the politicians and babus take note of it.Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Duleep EARTH 12 May, 2010 09:27 PM
63 years into our growth and we are still stuck on the age old
derogatory dehumanizing demeaning caste system! India, the new
generation: Rise above this or it will destroy us all!Agree (2)

Recommend (2)

Anil Thane 12 May, 2010 09:23 PM
Mr Bachchan has said what every Indian should say.Agree (2)

Recommend (1)

Rahul India 12 May, 2010 09:08 PM
I am not sure why the govt needs to know if a poor person is of what
caste before helping him? is it not enough for the govt to know the
economic situation of an individual to decide if he needs govt help
(read reservation) or not !Agree (2)

Recommend (1)

Sandip Bangalore 12 May, 2010 10:02 PM
Hi Rahul, you are wrong, goverment doesnt want to help the poor it
wants the vote from the dpecific caste by displaying the caste card.
Anyway its not the government, its us who have not taken drastic steps
to stop caste sytem starting from our homes to our nearest
localityAgree (1)

Recommend (1)

Rahul India 12 May, 2010 11:40 PM
Yes, agreed. What i don't get is as politicians, why not help
everyone, and not just a particular caste and get all votes (anyway
they are doing it from govt money not their own) rather than help a
section and create a rift in the society for short term benefit. Lalu
and likes of him are too opportunistic, and look for their own good.
He was sure to be wiped out of Bihar, because he did no one any good
only created caste divide, but then he comes back with this new game
of divide and rule ! The basic that every Indian should realize is
that govt is for welfare of people, and for doing that job they do not
have to divide the section on caste, creed, gender or race. Pakistan
is the output of a reservation policy, where division was on religion,
how many more boundaries are we looking to draw in India ?Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

stats USA 12 May, 2010 08:51 PM
Although I don't believe anyone should be marked by virtue of their
birth to a caste/tribe, measuring it in the census is important. This
is the only way to understand the social and economic situations of
different groups of people, which can then inform programs directed to
citizen's needs. If its not measured there is no way to know
statistically which groups are underserved (although we all know
annecdotally), and where services are needed. Once we have a more
equitable society, perhaps we won't need it.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

gurbally Canada 12 May, 2010 08:38 PM
Hats off, Big B. That's what every educated Indian should do.Agree (2)

Recommend (1)

Prem. Washington,USA 12 May, 2010 08:30 PM
Mr.Big B.A very good Title.But he forgets that all or most Indians of
high casts (if they are really of high castes) their children,grand
children,great grand children in high casts (again if they are really
of high casts.)No matter where live the Indians,they carry their casts
with them.In canada,the Uk,france,USA the so-called high casts say I
am of high casts....-Nonesense.Check their DNA it will show that do
not belong to any High cast .They are so stupid these illiterate high
casts.I don't give them no damn.I belong to Bramin casts( so say my
parents)but am no proud to be a bramin.I am Indian and an Indian with
good heart.I look and care for patients whether they be of low casts
or high casts.In my eyes they are Indians,and are my brothers and
sisters.My wife comes from a dallit family and she is a doctor too in
the USA.Agree (2)

Recommend (2)

mritunjay glasgow 12 May, 2010 08:22 PM
Mr. Bachhan has done the right thing and his statement is a slap for
the society and our so called respected politician who favours caste
system.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Girish USA 12 May, 2010 08:21 PM
OK, let us put this issue before the Indian Public. Lets put up this
important issue (at this cross road for India) for special national
vote, and let the Citizens Of India decide. Let us not succumb to
Yadavs and Mundes only. Hence onwards, let us address all important
national issues like this for a vote acrross India. Everybody should
have a say on matters like this. Please support me if I am right.Agree
(1)

Recommend (1)

Pyarelal New Jersey 12 May, 2010 08:04 PM
I am not a Bollywood fan and seldom watch Hindi movies. However, I
must say that Amitabhji you are a king on the screen and off. You have
the courage to be a true Indian. Caste system is a curse we have
inherited and everyone is free to use it to his or her advantage. This
will only weaken our society.Agree (1)
Disagree (0)
Recommend (1)

Indian India 12 May, 2010 07:27 PM
You Mr Ramnath.... you just stay in malayia and please don't talk
about our country.......we indian will work hard and take our country
to greater heights...we are united and only talk about future and want
this country to be better place to live..... you just stay
away....Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

uthamanarayanan chenni 12 May, 2010 07:23 PM
very funny and sad to have read all the comments on Bachan's view
which is laudable and every self respecting man who believes in
himself can, if want to, emulate him .Calling him a hypocrite or an
Aryan or claiming to be a Dravidian are all of feudal mindset. Okay if
one wants to get the benefits from the Govt for the accident of birth
in a so-called depressed or oppressed or downtrodden community, he can
register himself or herself so. But calling one' progressive thought
as something inferior is and commenting him with various indecent
epithets are not decent . If need be anyone can debate , if
intelligent enough. I have friends in all the communities although I
never ask anyone of his or her caste when meeting. In Tamil Nadu using
one's caste name after his name seems indecent although in all other
states it is not thought to be so. This precedent is set by all those
in public life and those in bureaucracy if they are from south. Those
from north, almost all bureaucracy personnel use their caste names,
this is not to find fault with them. The good practice of tamil nadu
can be emulated in rest of IndiaAgree (2)

Recommend (1)

Art Canada 12 May, 2010 06:52 PM
India has its core of idiots. Exploiting the caste system. Chinese
must be smiling on the circus going on in India. All countries and all
societies have been practicing these caste systems. Some on the basis
of money and some on religion. India is no different. But to exploit
this by the politicians is very old game. I am with Great Abhitabh
Bachan who is a pure Indian and proud of it.Agree (2)

Recommend (1)

Indian Dallas, TX 12 May, 2010 06:52 PM
well said, its time to sacrifice caste identity for national
integrity.Agree (1)

sanchi pune 13 May, 2010 11:32 AM
True said . I born as a brahmin and always feel suffocated with the so
called higher caste mentalitity prevaling back at my home. I studied
and working with people of different (so called)castenevr feltany how
different from any one. and i think this is most with all of modern
day educated youths. Definitely when i will became a parent i will
always teach my children the lesson of equality and cooperationAgree
(1)

Recommend (1)

Hazoor Singh Canada 12 May, 2010 06:48 PM
Caste system is the very basis of Hindu society. Are you denying that,
if so, then you should stand up and say it boldly that you are not
"Hindu"Agree (0)
Disagree (2)

aditya mumbai 13 May, 2010 01:48 PM
if the caste system is hinduism, then for people like you, so is sati,
child marriage and untouchabilityAgree (1)

Recommend (1)

Neil Aust 13 May, 2010 04:33 AM
You are confusing society with religion here and it appears with
malice intended. I am a hindu and I do not find any mention of the
caste system at all in the Bhagvad Gita, the sweet song of life. Dont
have to follow anything else. BTW, Big B is saying he is Indian. That
not enuf for you?Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Anilsuman FALNA 12 May, 2010 06:17 PM
dear sir,the cast system is our anciant system,we can not change it in
overnight yes we should correct the drawbacs of this system.i
appreciat big Bs idea.we can add INDIAN as cast(with other casts) in
where ever the cast identity is requried but it should be
optional.Agree (0)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

L.C.Prasad Surat 12 May, 2010 06:14 PM
Mr.Big is a hypocrate.He claims, he and his family is not beleive in
Cast system. Then Why he and all his family memebers seletcted only to
marry upper castes memebers all over India why not even one from lower
caste. He is the man to side with left and right for money. He is good
ACTOR IN real life also. Mr.B make money and enjoy yourselves, but not
try to befool other ordinary Indians.Agree (1)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (1)

Dips Gurgaon 12 May, 2010 08:23 PM
Mr. Prasad when you fall in love, u dnt ask caste first, Mr.B's family
from his dad's time married out of caste, if they were a strong
believer of castesim den dat wud not have happnd,anyways im sure u wud
not mind partying / hanging around with an sc / st wen u get to know
his caste later :)Agree (2)

Recommend (1)

Thomas George Trivandrum 12 May, 2010 08:09 PM
There is such a thing as personal choice. I am sure that no one
expects an individual to seek out partners of a certain caste just to
prove a point.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Saurabh Manipal 12 May, 2010 07:45 PM
Mr. Prasad.. u r a really stupid person.. no one falls in luv looking
into the caste of the other person.. main problem with india is that
we are being led by people like u e.g.lalu yadavAgree (2)

Recommend (1)

Ach Pune 12 May, 2010 07:01 PM
I think you have got some wrong info in there.His daughter in law
Aishwarya Rai does not belong to a upper caste but belongs to the
Bunts community which comes under backward/lower caste.So i guess you
have to accept that Mr.Bachan has not selected his family members
based on caste/creed etc.Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Gurpreet Toronto 12 May, 2010 06:43 PM
Idiot cuz all those were love marriages.. and we dont fall in love by
checking onto the caste of the other person.. stay away loser!!Agree
(1)

Recommend (1)

Moti Dubai 12 May, 2010 06:09 PM
First, we must delete surname indicating individual caste i.e Gupta,
Aggarwal,Sharma,Verma..etc.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

GG MN 12 May, 2010 06:01 PM
you want to know the caste Census visit www.projectjoshua.com.Agree
(0)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Sharad C. Misra Mumbai 12 May, 2010 05:53 PM
We could not have agreed more with Amitabh. But more than Mandal and
V.P. Singh, the vicious progenitors casteism, we would blame the apex
court for its judgment in the Indira Sawhney case (1992) which affixed
its seal of approval on caste system. This legitimized the birth of
monstrous OBC which in its wake spawned numerous castest leaders in
the country. This has divided the nation. What has motivated this
short-sighted anti-national policy is sheer vote-bank politics.Now,
caste system having been accepted as irreversible this country is
domed !Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Ramnath malaysia 12 May, 2010 05:50 PM
He can claim all he want . He is a North Indian of aryan ancestry . He
is not a dravidian south indian. Meaning he is of not indian origin.
Money can't buy DNA.Barrack Obama is american but african origin.By
origin he can claim all he wants but he is not indian.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

ramnath India 12 May, 2010 08:23 PM
any one born in India is an Indian, moronAgree (1)

Recommend (1)

peterpan US 12 May, 2010 08:19 PM
totally disagree!!!Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

sanat bengaluru 12 May, 2010 08:17 PM
dude get ur history right!!Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Amar Mumbai 12 May, 2010 08:13 PM
Hi Ramnath, this north indians being aryans and south indians being
dravidians is complete myth and has been proven by genetic
engineers.This myth was mainly spread by europions who wanted to prove
their supremacy and were not ready to accept the superior race of
indus valley.We have been tought same in our schools and still not
corrected it.Please google and get these facts right.Please do not
belive in those rubbish claims.We all are Indians.I agree with
AB.Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Sai hyderabad 12 May, 2010 07:57 PM
Sir, With all respect. Where does the Aryan race end and Dravidian
race start in India? Please know your facts b4 u put up some crap. And
recent studies show that the concept of Aryan and Dravidian race is
another divide line without any proof. Amitabh is an Indian (whether
corrupt or not). P.N: I am from Hyderabad(According to u a dravidian)
but in fact Indian.Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Mritunjoy Botswana 12 May, 2010 07:37 PM
sitting in Malaysia its easy to pass a comment. If you feel so
strongly for India why dont you go and stay there. As if caste system
was not enough you have started debating on dravidian and aryan. Wake
up kid think of one country and one nationality.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

AK47 anil 12 May, 2010 07:24 PM
Dont really understand aryan, dravidian, southindian, northindian.
These people who talk like this are like beggars. They keep hindu
names like Ram who was born in UP(north india).Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Dev USA 12 May, 2010 06:44 PM
It is scientifically proven that so called Aryans did not migrate to
Bharath, it is myth created by British to prove bible is correct.Both
Aryans and Dravidians are of the same origin.We shamelessly still
believe follow what Britih thought us.Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Ankit India 12 May, 2010 06:23 PM
I am overwhelmed, you gave your location as Mayasia, that might
indicate that you are educated and your comments indicate that you may
be elder too, i was thinking, what good is an education if it cannot
cure people of such diseased state of mind. He is not and Indian and
only you are, wow, bravo!Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Pankaj Kumar Kolkata 12 May, 2010 05:49 PM
Well said!!! Atleast there is one person who can think beyond caste
and can proudly say that "India is not all about caste"Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

jones john mumbai 12 May, 2010 05:43 PM
AB needs to pay all his Taxes before claiming to be an indian by
caste.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

rohit jaipur 12 May, 2010 05:34 PM
well the only point i see in registering caste during census is we can
know the number of reserved category people which is very important to
know as reservation is a bigger evil. rather than being emotional on
the issue look at the positive side. the results just might indicate
the percentage population of reserved category..Agree (1)

Recommend (1)
OffensiveTushar Mumbai 12 May, 2010 05:19 PM
It is again proved by our politicians that they are worst than the
Britishers who have ruled the country. They are using the same method
of divide and rule. It is unfortunate that a few such people take such
decision aginst the wishes of all others. I feel that people of India
should put caste as "Indian"Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Dominic Nicholas Madras 12 May, 2010 05:17 PM
Dear Times of India, Are we ready to delete from our society
everything that projects the caste identity from all records including
the sirnames eg: shinde, iyer, parrayer, nair, nadar, pillais,
patnayak, misra,sharma, tendulkar, kelkar, rai, bachan, rao, nehru,
ganthi and so on. Are we prepared to take a pledge not to take the
name of any caste by tongue ? Let us not be hypocrites, don't put the
blame on politicians, but the educated class should take the full
responsibility for the promotion of castes in every walk of life.Agree
(2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)

Deepak Rana Dubai UAE 12 May, 2010 04:23 PM
This is the right time to say bye bye to caste.All Indian should agree
with the Mr Big B.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Amit Sharma Delhi 12 May, 2010 04:23 PM
TRUE..well said...i m in same line...my caste is INDIAN too...say
loudly..our caste is INDIAN...only INDIANAgree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

Peter Dsouza Mumbai 12 May, 2010 04:22 PM
Divide and rule was invented in India. And ended in the British
dividing and ruling us. BewareAgree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

jayaraj kolkata 12 May, 2010 04:20 PM
Amithabh Bachchan has been and is always the true Ambassador of India.
It is the ugly face of congress which could not stand his iconic
status has always attempted to pull him down without any success.I
hope and request all right thinking people to follow Mr Bachchan's
example.Agree (1)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

HINDUSTANI HINDUSTANI 12 May, 2010 04:15 PM
RELIGION IS PART OF OUR LIFE. BUT CASTE WORD SHOULD BE DELETE FROM ALL
THE OFFICIAL FORMS. CASTE BRINGS DIVISION IN THEIR OWN RELIGION. CASTE
BRINGS HATRED IN THEIR OWN RELIGION. CASTE DIVIDES THEIR OWN RELIGION
PEOPLE.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (1)

moiz Hyd 12 May, 2010 04:08 PM
His comments are hypocrites; he can say anything which appeases media
and general public. But the fact is Amitabh is disbelieving person,
when it was known that Ash is Maglik he took her to many places and
get married first with Tree and some person advised Amitabh that
muslim should not present during second marriage of Ash with Abishek.
So, he did not invited any muslim friends nor allowed any media
personal inside marriage function.Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
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siddharth ahmedabad 12 May, 2010 03:57 PM
Caste politics is invidious and dangerous. Hats off to Amitabh
BachchanAgree (1)

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Yamini Bangalore 12 May, 2010 03:55 PM
I might be wrong but dont you think Big B has mistaken 'regionalism'
for 'casteism'? Even in that case, his comments are laudable. Very
well said and very well done too!Agree (1)
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Ramu Kallepalli Hyderabad, India 12 May, 2010 03:45 PM
I will do the same. My caste is Indian.Agree (1)
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Poorvi New Delhi 12 May, 2010 03:42 PM
Not believing in the caste system does not mean that one can discount
its existence in the Indian social fabric. While to most it may seem
that the government and political parties are trying to divide the
country on the lines of caste, the fact is India is already divided in
such a fashion, and beyond repair. It would be worthwhile to go back
to Ambedkarite discourse on caste before we completely denounce the
caste system on individual basis.Agree (2)
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Ashish Monroe, USA 12 May, 2010 03:35 PM
This is the first time he has made a most sensible and respected
statement.Agree (1)
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slohani india 12 May, 2010 03:14 PM
well said, big b. caste based census is done for fueling political
ambitions. Reservations in academic institutions in higher level
should go to promote quality.Agree (1)

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OffensiveJKM Kerala 12 May, 2010 02:52 PM
If he is so broad-minded, would he marry off any of his family members
to a Muslim or a Christian ? He may be averse to the caste system in
Hinduism, but that does'nt mean that he is very broad-minded. Enough
of all this drama !!Agree (1)
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Jagga london 12 May, 2010 02:37 PM
Amitab Bachan You are involved in 1984 sikh killing. You are Indian
But a killer.Agree (1)
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anand united states 12 May, 2010 05:10 PM
and you are involved in killing indira gandhi, you should be
hangedAgree (1)

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V.Seshadri Mumbai 12 May, 2010 02:27 PM
Agree with Big B wholeheartedly. I will also do likewise.Agree (0)
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Bharatiya 12 May, 2010 01:50 PM
Amit ji, all kudos to you for having such a mindset. Infact majority
of modern India believes in the same philosophy. It is only the
Congress Govt which time and again forces us to think about
"Caste"Agree (1)

Recommend (1)

Prabhat Boston 12 May, 2010 05:34 PM
Don't blame UP and Bihar for all the shit. Your next neighborhood
Haryana..there are killings going on for Gotra. so please open your
eyes and start observing things. There are many ravidas temples in
Delhi...what are those for? You have just simplified a very
complicated problemAgree (1)
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VJ Aust 13 May, 2010 05:02 AM
Even in an egalitarian society like Australia it is the blue collar,
white collar, rich, poor, northern suburbs, westie etc. But this gives
no excuse for the caste system that India practices. Ged rid of
it.Agree (1)
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/My-caste-is-Indian-says-Amitabh-Bachchan/articleshow/5920912.cms

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