Ten Thousand Swedes
Aadu Pilt
I think, "I remember Mama." From that, I appear to recall a couple of
lines of "poetry" that went something like:
Ten thousand Swedes went through the weeds
Chasing one Norwegian.
Can anyone tell me what this is all about? Does it have to do with
Norwegian independence from the Swedish kingdom in ?1895?
Thank you. "Tack so mycket".
--
Aadu Pilt
aadu...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca
Stein J. Rypern
ab...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Aadu Pilt) writes:
>There was a play about Norwegians in the U.S. in the early 1900s called,
>I think, "I remember Mama." From that, I appear to recall a couple of
>lines of "poetry" that went something like:
>Ten thousand Swedes went through the weeds
>Chasing one Norwegian.
>Can anyone tell me what this is all about? Does it have to do with
>Norwegian independence from the Swedish kingdom in ?1895?
Haven't got the faintest what it was about, but it is very unlikely that
it was about the dissolution of the union on 7 june 1905. That happened
rather peacefully, despite (or possibly because of) partial mobilization
on both both sides.
The worst fight of that episode was the infamous "admiral's battle" - a
professional quarrel between two norwegian vice admirals about the best
way of taking on the bigger swedish navy, if and when.
It might have something to do with the swedish invasion in the summer of
1814, when they came over to take over Norway, or it might be from one of
the many wars between Norway and Sweden during the years prior to 1814.
But I can't say it really rings a bell for me, and I have read my share
of norwegian military history.
>Thank you. "Tack so mycket".
You are welcome.
Smile
Stein
--
Stein J. Rypern I "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir,
Ostbyvn 21 I what do we do ?"
N1920 SORUMSAND I "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet
NORWAY I in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
Henrik Ernoe
>There was a play about Norwegians in the U.S. in the early 1900s called,
>I think, "I remember Mama." From that, I appear to recall a couple of
>lines of "poetry" that went something like:
>
>Ten thousand Swedes went through the weeds
>Chasing one Norwegian.
>
>Can anyone tell me what this is all about? Does it have to do with
>Norwegian independence from the Swedish kingdom in ?1895?
I don`t think so. In fact I know another version that goes:
At the battle of Copenhagen ten thousand Swedes ran trough the weeds
chasen by one Norwegian.
And if the play you refer to was done by a Norwegian (N-american)
then I think that my version is far more likely to be the correct one.
regards Henrik ernoe
C:DEMONSPOOLMAIL
>>Norwegian independence from the Swedish kingdom in ?1895?
Just a little note : The norwegians took their independence from the
Swedes in 1905, not 1895. Although some like to think that they faught
long and hard for this, it wasn't until 1904 the question of
independence was put on to the main-stream political agendas.
--
___________________________________________________________________________
"Life is not a mystery to solve, but a puzzle to play"
___________________________________________________________________________
Alexander Johannesen (alex...@intelsec.demon.co.uk)
Amblik Pilt
: ab...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Aadu Pilt) wrote:
: >There was a play about Norwegians in the U.S. in the early 1900s called,
: >I think, "I remember Mama." From that, I appear to recall a couple of
: >lines of "poetry" that went something like:
: >
: >Ten thousand Swedes went through the weeds
: >Chasing one Norwegian.
: >Can anyone tell me what this is all about? Does it have to do with
: I don`t think so. In fact I know another version that goes:
: At the battle of Copenhagen ten thousand Swedes ran trough the weeds
: chasen by one Norwegian.
You're probably right. Thanks.
But that leads me to another question ... what was the "battle of
Copenhagen and what were the Norwegians doing there?
(I'm not an historian.)
Thinking too of midsummers nights eve (even tho it's snowing in Toronto!)
did other Nordic countries (I still think Eesti is more Nordic than
Baltic!) also have something similar to the Jaanio"o" Ma"ss (June 21,
1343); Peasants' Revolt?
: And if the play you refer to was done by a Norwegian (N-american)
Henrik Ernoe
>Henrik Ernoe (er...@wotan.ens.fr) wrote:
>: ab...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Aadu Pilt) wrote:
>: >There was a play about Norwegians in the U.S. in the early 1900s called,
>: >I think, "I remember Mama." From that, I appear to recall a couple of
>: >lines of "poetry" that went something like:
>: >
>: >Ten thousand Swedes went through the weeds
>: >Chasing one Norwegian.
>: >
>: >Can anyone tell me what this is all about? Does it have to do with
>: >Norwegian independence from the Swedish kingdom in ?1895?
>
>: I don`t think so. In fact I know another version that goes:
>
>: At the battle of Copenhagen ten thousand Swedes ran trough the weeds
>: chasen by one Norwegian.
>
>You're probably right. Thanks.
>
>But that leads me to another question ... what was the "battle of
>Copenhagen and what were the Norwegians doing there?
The battle of Copenhagen the verse refers to is probably the
Swedish siege of 1656 (?, i`m not sure of the year and have
no way of checking it here), a siege which lead to the Swedish
defeat and the peace settlement in Roskilde.
At the time Denmark and Norway was one Kingdom (stayed as such
as until 1814). Therefore many Norwegians would serve in the
Army, Navy at the court or simply live in Copenhagen as
citizens of the Twin-monarchy.
This particular battle have always been the origin of fancifull
history writing.
In Danish history books the battle was won by the regiments
formed by "burghers and students" although the student
regiment only numbered 121 combattants and conveniently
forgetting the 12000 soldiers and marines, not to mention
the regiment formed by porters, waiters and noble pages.
But then history books were written by academics.
In Swedish history it was often claimed that the battle was
won by the 3000 Dutch soldiers serving as allies to the Danes, Holsteiners and Norwegians.
And in norwegian tales, well that you already know.
>Thinking too of midsummers nights eve (even tho it's snowing in Toronto!)
>did other Nordic countries (I still think Eesti is more Nordic than
>Baltic!) also have something similar to the Jaanio"o" Ma"ss (June 21,
>1343); Peasants' Revolt?
Well, Denmark had several peasants revolts during the Middle Ages,
so it depends on what the Jaanio"o" Ma"ss Revolt was.
>: regards Henrik ernoe
John E. Foggitt
> : >Norwegian independence from the Swedish kingdom in ?1895?
>
> : I don`t think so. In fact I know another version that goes:
>
> : At the battle of Copenhagen ten thousand Swedes ran trough the weeds
> : chasen by one Norwegian.
>
> You're probably right. Thanks.
>
> But that leads me to another question ... what was the "battle of
> Copenhagen and what were the Norwegians doing there?
Well, I'm not a historian too, but there are two battles of Copenhagen that springs to mind :
The first one was somewhere in the 1890's where the English army faught a battle against
the danes, and stole all their ship. This put a stop to overseas trading with Norway (we were
"owned" by Denmark at this time), and made Denmark an allied with France and Napoleon.
The second "battle" was in 1814-1815 when the swedes, that had faught bravely in the
Napoleon war AGAINST Napoleon so that they could get Norway as a present, came
to Copenhagen to make sure their claim would not have been forgotten. (This is actually
how Norway ended up as a part of Sweden)
As to who this one norwegian might be, my wild guess might be Tordenskiold, that dreaded
dane admiral. There has always been a fight between norwegians and danes as to where
Tordenskiold came from. His parents were danes, but he was born in Norway. (I also think
he grew up in Norway, but I have to check)
Without detailed assurance,
Alexander Johannesen (alex...@intelsec.demon.co.uk)
Bill Ahlstrom
at the battle of Copenhagen
10,000 Swedes ran through the weeds
Chased by one Norwegian
sometimes this last line was rendered as "Chasing one
Norwegioan"
Bill Ahlstrom
S.W.
[snip]
=>>But that leads me to another question ... what was the "battle of
=>>Copenhagen and what were the Norwegians doing there?
=>
=>The battle of Copenhagen the verse refers to is probably the
=>Swedish siege of 1656 (?, i`m not sure of the year and have
=>no way of checking it here), a siege which lead to the Swedish
=>defeat and the peace settlement in Roskilde.
I suggest you take another look in the history books.... :-)
In 1657, while the Swedish king Charles X Gustav was busy fighting a war in
Poland Denmark declared war on Sweden. King Charles decided to take on the
Danes and quickly marched toward Denmark invading from the south. He
captured Jutland then marched his armies over the ice across the straits of
the Belts capturing Sealand (Själland) except for the capital Copenhagen,
meaning that virtually all of Denmark except for the capital were captured
by the Swedes. The resulting peace treaty in Roskilde in 1658 resulted in
Denmark losing the provinces of Scania, Blekinge and Halland (permanently)
then belonging to Denmark proper, as well as Bohuslän, Jämtland and
Härjedalen then belonging to Norway, all of which still belong to Sweden.
The loss of Scania was a severe blow since the province was one of the most
important Danish provinces, with ancestral homes for much of the Danish
nobility, the cathedral of Lund (once the seat of the archbishop for all of
Scandinavia) and so on. All in all a resounding victory for Sweden.
After the peace treaty was signed king Charles, apparently displeased by
the result of the treaty and the work of the negotiators, decided to try to
capture _all_ of Denmark and decided to lay siege to Copenhagen
(1658-1659). The attempt to storm the city was beaten back by the Danes
(helped by the Dutch). King Charles withdrew to Gothenburg, planning a new
attack on both Denmark and Norway. Unfortunately he was taken ill and died
there in 1660 meaning that the plans were cancelled.
The Danes made a number of attempts to recapture their lost provinces but
were decisively beaten at Lund in 1676 and Helsingborg in 1710.
So Denmark may have won the battle of Copenhagen in 1659 but lost the wars
preceding it and all the wars following it (the last war being fought
between Sweden and Denmark was part of the Napoleonic wars, ending with the
Danish loss of Norway in 1814). One of the battle honors of my old regiment
was the battle of Bornhöft (Bornhoeved), in Holstein south of Kiel, in 1813
where a Swedish cavalry detachment routed the rear guard of the Danish
army, which was retreating north chased by the Swedish forces in Germany.
=>At the time Denmark and Norway was one Kingdom (stayed as such
=> as until 1814). Therefore many Norwegians would serve in the
=>Army, Navy at the court or simply live in Copenhagen as
=>citizens of the Twin-monarchy.
=>
=>This particular battle have always been the origin of fancifull
=> history writing.
=>
=>In Danish history books the battle was won by the regiments
=>formed by "burghers and students" although the student
=>regiment only numbered 121 combattants and conveniently
=>forgetting the 12000 soldiers and marines, not to mention
=>the regiment formed by porters, waiters and noble pages.
=>But then history books were written by academics.
=>
=>In Swedish history it was often claimed that the battle was
=>won by the 3000 Dutch soldiers serving as allies to the Danes, Holsteiners and Norwegians.
Swedish history books also stress the importance of all the local "militia"
companies formed by the "burghers" of Copenhagen.
[snip]
--
Svante Wendel - wen...@kuai.se - wen...@wendel.se
Visit my unofficial Royal Swedish Army web page at
http://www.kuai.se/%7Ewendel/home2.html
Every country has an army, their own or someone else's
Henrik Ernoe
>Den 27 Mar 1996 11:21:02 GMT skrev Henrik Ernoe <er...@wotan.ens.fr> :
>
>[snip]
>
>=>>But that leads me to another question ... what was the "battle of
>=>>Copenhagen and what were the Norwegians doing there?
>=>
>=>no way of checking it here), a siege which lead to the Swedish
>=>defeat and the peace settlement in Roskilde.
Svante responds with a nice summary of the Danish-Swedish
Wars of 1657-1659. Pointing out that these wars were a
catastrophe for Denmark.
This no-one can dispute, however the Danish victory at
Copenhagen was a defeat for King Charles and the Swedes.
Without that victory Denmark would have become a part of
Sweden, as was the goal of King Charles. (As he put it "what
does it matter to the Danes whether their King is called
Frederik or Charles"). It was a defeat for Charles that
forced the Swedes to accept the peace treaty. A treaty that
btw was forced down the Swedish and Danish throats by the Dutch,
English and French -all of whom were fed up with having their
trade disrupted by the wars.
Furthermore, the real reason by the Danish provinces east of
the Sound did not return to Denmark is very simple: the
maritime powers in Europe did not want to have *one* state
controlling both sides of the Sound since it thereby would
be able to impose tariffs on trade as the Danes had done before
1657. It is very interesting to read the diplomatic instructions
given to the Dutch envoys in Copenhagen which clearly states
that the Dutch, despite their being "allied" with the Danes,
wanted to preserve the new status quo in the Sound
regardless of the military gains from either side.
regards Henrik Ernoe.
Karin
when I went to school in Rødovre (Copenhagen). This is facinating, I
will be back for more.
Karin Brandt-Koch
Aadu Pilt
: i remember it as 10,000 Swedes ran through the weeds
Wow. Thanks to all for the responses. So which was it ... 10,000 Swedes
chased by, or chasing, the Norwegian? Seems to me to be a difference. May
be the Swedes see it as one and the Norwegians as the other? And is this
verse well known to both Swedes and Norwegians (or even Danes)? Is it
something that every "school child" knows? [like London Bridge is falling
down which also commemorates something or other from English history]. Is
there more to the "poem" than just the 2-4 lines under discussion?
--
Aadu Pilt
aadu...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca
Geir Jarle Str›m
>There was a play about Norwegians in the U.S. in the early 1900s called,
>I think, "I remember Mama." From that, I appear to recall a couple of
>lines of "poetry" that went something like:
>
>Ten thousand Swedes went through the weeds
>Chasing one Norwegian.
>
The play "I remember Mama" by John van Druten (circa 1945) was loosely based
upon the book "Mama's bank account" by Kathryn Forbes, a pseudonume for
Kathryn McLean (1909- ). The book is about growing up in a immigrant family in
San Francisco in the early 1900s, seen from a young girls viewpoint. The Mama of the
title is Norwegian, but her ancestry is not really important to the text. There's
no songs in the book: These must have been added for the play, and I would not
really expect them to be based on either Norwegian history or Norwegian songs.
Geir
Kari Yli-Kuha
: Wow... how come this is so much more fun, learning about history, than
: will be back for more.
Yes, wars are fascinating, aren't they - especially seen from a safe
distance, either in time or space, preferably both.
What's more fascinating, IMO, is to see how people from different
countries interpret the events differently and mostly according
to the respective (respected?) country - although those people hardly
have much to do with the crazy kings of 1600's :-)
: Karin Brandt-Koch
--
_ , Kari Yli-Kuha (male, btw.)
' ) / SQ Consulting, Tampere, Finland
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> There was a play about Norwegians in the U.S. in the early 1900s called,
> I think, "I remember Mama." From that, I appear to recall a couple of
> lines of "poetry" that went something like:
>
> Ten thousand Swedes went through the weeds
> Chasing one Norwegian.
>
> Norwegian independence from the Swedish kingdom in ?1895?
>
>
> Aadu Pilt
> aadu...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca
Dad said this in swedish ,i remember 44 svedes ver chased thru the veeds by
von lone norvegian. This was in Swedish.
bob...@comcast.net
> There was a play about Norwegians in the U.S. in the early 1900s called,
> I think, "I remember Mama." From that, I appear to recall a couple of
> lines of "poetry" that went something like:
>
> Ten thousand Swedes went through the weeds
> Chasing one Norwegian.
>
> Can anyone tell me what this is all about? Does it have to do with
> Norwegian independence from the Swedish kingdom in ?1895?
>
> Thank you. "Tack so mycket".
>
> --
> Aadu Pilt
> aadu...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca
10,000 more were held at the door
by one Norwegian whore
It was mixed marriage (swede and Norwegian, some of the arguments were interesting . . .