What does Navajo mean (was re: Native American vs. Indian)
Lisa Dorman
Delphine says...
>I prefer the terms people use to identify themselves in their own languages.
>I also prefer "People of Indigenious Descent" over all other terms.
>Therefore, I am of Nihookaa' Dine'e descent. My people are better known by
>an anthropological label that I adamantly oppose-the Navajo.
> Ahxehee' (Thank-you),
> Delphine
I agree, I prefer to call people whatever they prefer to be called,
be it Innu, Dene or Heinz-57 (that's me).
Question - What does the word Navajo mean and where did it come from?
Thanks!
Lisa
Fernando Bitsie
There are probably numerous definition available, so here goes mine.
It came from a phrase "Navajo de Apachu", meaning something like nomadic
planters in either the Tewa or Picurus language. This is just one of
many sources.
You may have been reading the recent posting of what people prefer
to call themselves. I would have to agreed with them and say us "Navajos"
prefer to be called "Dine'", which is what we call ourselves in our own tongue.
Within the Dine', we even go further and
identify ourselves by clans.
Are there any other explanation on the meaning of Navajo ?
Al Aldrich
Hmm.. now this is an interesting thread.. I am really dumbfounded as to the
breadth of my ignorance.. :-) I had always `assumed' that Navaho was the
indigenous name and language. Now I have to wonder about something else I am
complete ignorance of..
So, let me ask a thunderously stupid question. Do the Dine' have a true
written language which is available and translatable to the average ignorant
yokum like me, or has the language, culture, and tradition been handed down
verbally through the centuries ? I don't know much about languages.. so am
a bit perplexed, thinking about how a non-written language might get written
and then translated into Tewa and/or Picurus.. and if I might display my
utter ignorance once again.. what languages are Tewa and Picurus ?
Are there books on this subject that I should go refer to and gain some
knowledge before I ask any more stupid questions?
Thanks
al
Tero . Tommila
>knowledge before I ask any more stupid questions?
You should visit the Smithsonian Institution or consult your nearest
University or library or a good book-seller. For example the 20-volume
"Handbook of North American Indians" is useful...
Greetings from Finland to all
the native peoples of America !
Sincerely Tero T.
Fernando Bitsie
>
>>>> What does Navajo mean ?
>
>>There are probably numerous definition available, so here goes mine.
>>It came from a phrase "Navajo de Apachu", meaning something like nomadic
>>planters in either the Tewa or Picurus language. This is just one of
>>many sources.
>
>>You may have been reading the recent posting of what people prefer
>>to call themselves. I would have to agreed with them and say us "Navajos"
>>prefer to be called "Dine'", which is what we call ourselves in our own tongue.
>>Within the Dine', we even go further and
>>identify ourselves by clans.
>
>Hmm.. now this is an interesting thread.. I am really dumbfounded as to the
>breadth of my ignorance.. :-) I had always `assumed' that Navaho was the
>indigenous name and language. Now I have to wonder about something else I am
>complete ignorance of..
>
>So, let me ask a thunderously stupid question. Do the Dine' have a true
>written language which is available and translatable to the average ignorant
>yokum like me, or has the language, culture, and tradition been handed down
>verbally through the centuries ?
The Dine' language is historically an oral language. There are writings
available mostly done by a school in Rough Rock, Az. for educational
purposes.
The Dine' language, traditions, and culture has been pasted down
verbally at least in my family and immediate community. It could be done
by other means, but I'm not aware of any.
> I don't know much about languages.. so am
>a bit perplexed, thinking about how a non-written language might get written
>and then translated into Tewa and/or Picurus.. and if I might display my
>utter ignorance once again.. what languages are Tewa and Picurus ?
The Picurus and Tewa languages are what is spoken by some
of the Pueblo Indians in New Mexico.
>
>Are there books on this subject that I should go refer to and gain some
>knowledge before I ask any more stupid questions?
>
I'm sure there are but I don't know of any off hand.
>Thanks
>al
Tero . Tommila
>planters in either the Tewa or Picurus language.
a Spanish word but the meaning has escaped my attention. If you want, I can check
my books. Some say it was devised in the early 1600's and means "great planting
fields"...
Zuni (Ashiwi) is a "pueblo" tribe, speaking a unique language with no known
relatives. In this sense it can be compared only to Tonkawa (on the plains),
an equally obscure isolate (now extinct).
Navajo and Apache speak dialects of the same language, sometimes called
"southern Athabascan" (the only divergent speech is the so-called Kiowa-
Apache on the plains). The nearest relatives of this language live in
far-away Canada.
>what languages are Tewa and Picuris ?
These are so-called pueblos or tribes of a people speaking some of the
Tanoan languages (which are Tewa, Tiwa, Towa, Kiowa on the plains and
possibly Piro - and also the ancient Manso-Suma-Jumano along the Rio Grande),
in this case, of course, Tewa. The extinct Towa was composed of the tribes
(villages) "Jemez" (Walatowa) = western Towa and "Pecos" = eastern Towa.
Tiwa is also split into two: northern and southern.
Tewa language is spoken between these, in the "middle".
The Tanoan family itself may be related to the large Ute-Aztecan stock
(which another "pueblo" tribe, Hopi, belongs to)
Zuni, Tanoan and Athabascan are totally distinct families/isolates with
no proven linguistic connection (except the hypothetical "Amerind" which
claims all the native languages of the Americas - except Eskimo-Aleut
which has ties to Siberia and maybe Na-Dene - are related to each other).
In any case, Navajos/Apaches are late-comers and arrived to their present
location in the 14th or 15th century.
Sincerely Tero T.
Ricardo J Salvador
>>It came from a phrase "Navajo de Apachu", meaning something like nomadic
>>planters in either the Tewa or Picurus language.
>
>As I remember, "apachu" is a zuni word meaning "enemy". Navajo is apparently
>a Spanish word but the meaning has escaped my attention.
The word "navaja" (pronounced "nah vah hah") means razor or dagger, according
to context, and in Spanish a "navajo" can easily be construed to be someone
who either carries or manufactures such instruments. Interestingly, even
though it is in fact a "Spanish" word, its etymology traces (as do many
Spanish words) to the Arabic, as a relic of the several hundred years of
Spanish life under Moorish rule.
>Zuni (Ashiwi) is a "pueblo" tribe, speaking a unique language with no known
^^^^^^
And these groups of people were so named by the Spaniards on account of the
fact that they were found to inhabit urban settlements which looked very
much like villages containing the features and amenities that the Spaniards
would have recognized in their own part of the world in the 16th century.
The word 'pueblo' means literally an inhabited or settled place, and thence
its use as a synonym for 'town.'
>>what languages are Tewa and Picuris ?
>
>These are so-called pueblos or tribes of a people speaking some of the
>Tanoan languages (which are Tewa, Tiwa, Towa, Kiowa on the plains and
>possibly Piro - and also the ancient Manso-Suma-Jumano along the Rio Grande),
^^^^^
This is another Spanish designation, meaning literally "tame," as these
folks inhabiting the area of present-day El Paso, Texas and Ciudad Juarez,
Mexico, offered no resistance to the Spaniards. Perhaps significantly,
they are now extinct as a cultural group, though I suspect they are
strongly represented in the population of San Lorenzo and Antonio de
Senecu', former parishes located southeast of present-day Juarez, now
absorbed by the urban sprawl of said city.
>in this case, of course, Tewa. The extinct Towa was composed of the tribes
>(villages) "Jemez" (Walatowa) = western Towa and "Pecos" = eastern Towa.
>Tiwa is also split into two: northern and southern.
The northern stayed in the neighborhood of present-day Albuquerque after
the famous 17th century "Pueblo Rebellion" against the Spanish, while the
Christianized Tiwa's who fled with the Spaniards southward to El Paso
were resettled south of there but lost most of their cultural identity
(and are known to this date by the Spanish rendering of Tiwa: "Tigua.")
Recently, they've tried reviving their culture (mostly for touristic
purposes), and there have been some "reunions" of the northern and
southern groups for the purpose of helping the Tiguas to get reacquainted
with their heritage.
>The Tanoan family itself may be related to the large Ute-Aztecan stock
>(which another "pueblo" tribe, Hopi, belongs to)
Within Mexico, a number of living, dynamic languages are included in
this family, including rara'muri and nahuatl (Aztec).
Hasta moztla
Ricardo
Dan McCoy
>"southern Athabascan" (the only divergent speech is the so-called Kiowa-
>Apache on the plains). The nearest relatives of this language live in
>far-away Canada.
There are tribes which speak languages of the Athabascan group in California.
Dan McCoy mc...@pixar.com
Acee Agoyo
|> >> What does Navajo mean ?
|>
|> There are probably numerous definition available, so here goes mine.
|> It came from a phrase "Navajo de Apachu", meaning something like nomadic
|> planters in either the Tewa or Picurus language. This is just one of
|> many sources.
and for San Carlos Apache, it is "P'in Saveh." I don't think there are
any others.
Acee Agoyo
ago...@athena.mit.edu
Acee Agoyo
|> I don't know much about languages.. so am
|> a bit perplexed, thinking about how a non-written language might get written
|> and then translated into Tewa and/or Picurus.. and if I might display my
|> utter ignorance once again.. what languages are Tewa and Picurus ?
in Northern New Mexico--San Juan, Santa Clara, San Ildefonso, Tesuque, and
Pojaque. Picurus is another pueblo, except farther north. I think they
speak Towa, as does Isleta. It is nearby to Taos, which speaks Tiwa.
Wait, I might be mixed up between Tiwa and Towa. Too many langauges in
New Mexico to remember them all!
Acee Agoyo
ago...@athena.mit.edu
Acee Agoyo
|> The extinct Towa was composed of the tribes
|> (villages) "Jemez" (Walatowa) = western Towa and "Pecos" = eastern Towa.
language that I couldn't understand. It couldn't have been anything but
Towa. It certainly wasn't Keres, spoken by nearby pueblos.
Acee Agoyo
ago...@athena.mit.edu
Agvnige Wohali
>Dan McCoy mc...@pixar.com
I think the Hupa speak an Athabaskan language but I am not 100% certain.
Agvnige Wohali
cher...@cscns.com
Tero . Tommila
Tero . Tommila
>to context, and in Spanish a "navajo" can easily be construed to be someone
>who either carries or manufactures such instruments. Interestingly, even
>though it is in fact a "Spanish" word, its etymology traces (as do many
>Spanish words) to the Arabic, as a relic of the several hundred years of
>Spanish life under Moorish rule.
Thank you, Ricardo, for a valuable response.
I have always wanted to learn some Spanish but haven't had the time for it.
I would very much need it when studying the native peoples of the so-
called Latin America (also it would be nice to know the language when
trying to find ancient Iberian traces in it, i.e. the pre-Roman tongues
that prevailed in the Pyrenaean peninsula).
So Manso means "tame". But what does Jumano mean ? And I suspect that
even Piro could be Spanish...
(Pueblos...)
>The northern stayed in the neighborhood of present-day Albuquerque after
>the famous 17th century "Pueblo Rebellion" against the Spanish
I remember it occurred in 1682, led by a chief called "the Pope"...
(Ute-Aztecan...)
>Within Mexico, a number of living, dynamic languages are included in
>this family, including rara'muri and nahuatl (Aztec).
Yes, Aztec being the most famous "Chicimecas" (dog-eaters ?). Others
are "Cahita" (what does it mean ?) = a group of tribes; "Lagunero"
(pond or lagoon people in Spanish ?), "Concho" (=what ?), Cora,
Huichol, Pima, Opata, Guachichil, Tepehuan, Varohio etc.
Rara'muri ("foot-runners") = Tarahumara.
Tero . Tommila
>language that I couldn't understand. It couldn't have been anything but
>Towa. It certainly wasn't Keres, spoken by nearby pueblos.
"mother tongue" (I saw your name is not very "English" or "Spanish") ?
And Jemez is still spoken ?
And you are right: Keresan is another "pueblo" group speaking two closely
related languages (eastern & western). This group, again, is totally
unrelated to the other "pueblo" languages ! Could it be that the names
of the Keresan languages were Sitsime and Kawaiko ?
Regards
Tero T.
Finland
Acee Agoyo
|> (Pueblos...)
|> >The northern stayed in the neighborhood of present-day Albuquerque after
|> >the famous 17th century "Pueblo Rebellion" against the Spanish
|>
|> I remember it occurred in 1682, led by a chief called "the Pope"...
in 1696. It was led by a man from San Juan Pueblo, NM, named "po?pay",
which means "ripe squash" in Tewa. The Isleta tribe is still located around
present-day Albuquerque, and the Ysleta del Sur (south Isleta) are in
Texas.
|> (Ute-Aztecan...)
|> >Within Mexico, a number of living, dynamic languages are included in
|> >this family, including rara'muri and nahuatl (Aztec).
|>
|> Yes, Aztec being the most famous "Chicimecas" (dog-eaters ?). Others
|> are "Cahita" (what does it mean ?) = a group of tribes; "Lagunero"
|> (pond or lagoon people in Spanish ?), "Concho" (=what ?), Cora,
|> Huichol, Pima, Opata, Guachichil, Tepehuan, Varohio etc.
|> Rara'muri ("foot-runners") = Tarahumara.
My Nahuatl fails me at the moment so I'll check on some of these words.
Acee Agoyo
ag...@athena.mit.edu
Acee Agoyo
|> >language that I couldn't understand. It couldn't have been anything but
|> >Towa. It certainly wasn't Keres, spoken by nearby pueblos.
|>
|> So I was right when guessing you must speak some Tanoan language as your
|> "mother tongue" (I saw your name is not very "English" or "Spanish") ?
northern New Mexico. "acee" comes from a language in Oklahoma and I
recently found out that there are people in Oklahoma with that name. Haven't
found out what it means yet.
|> And Jemez is still spoken ?
Yes. Either that or the people from Jemez have invented a totally new
language. No matter what, it is distinct from the other languages spoken in
New Mexico.
|> And you are right: Keresan is another "pueblo" group speaking two closely
|> related languages (eastern & western). This group, again, is totally
|> unrelated to the other "pueblo" languages ! Could it be that the names
|> of the Keresan languages were Sitsime and Kawaiko ?
My mother speaks Keres and it is different from Tewa, although there are some
similarities here and there. There are variations between Keres in different
pueblos, mostly in how one pronounces it. For example, in Santo Domingo,
it's more "accented" I guess is how one could say it. In Laguna, sometimes
they cut words off.
I have a question for those who know about loan words. I noticed that
Tewa, Keres, Zuni, and Nahuatl have similar words for cat. In Tewa, it
is "muusa", in Keres its "muus", in Zuni, its also "muusa", and in
Nahuatl, its "miztli", close in prononciation to the others. My question
is, when did cats come into contact with various tribes? Why are all
the words similar? Does anybody know what language they might be borrowed
or derived from? Does anybody know the word for cat in other languages?
Hopi? Navajo?
Acee Agoyo
ago...@athena.mit.edu
IC...@asuacad.bitnet
"masi"- (MA-si) and "mosi" (MO-si). The former is in the central Nihookaa'
Dine'e-land dialect and the latter in western ND-land dialect.
Please do not pay attention to my atrocious spelling...it's getting late.
Tero . Tommila
>northern New Mexico. "acee" comes from a language in Oklahoma and I
>recently found out that there are people in Oklahoma with that name. Haven't
>found out what it means yet.
Nice to meet a native american speaker. You are also now conversing with
a "native", i.e. a Finn (our ancestors arrived into present-day Finland
at least 5000 years ago, speaking an Ugric language). Also, in many ways,
Finnish is the most archaic language of the Finno-Ugric-Samoyedic group.
What tongue could "acee" belong to ? There is such a mix-up of Indian
languages in Oklahoma...
>I have a question for those who know about loan words. I noticed that
>Tewa, Keres, Zuni, and Nahuatl have similar words for cat. In Tewa, it
>is "muusa", in Keres its "muus", in Zuni, its also "muusa", and in
>Nahuatl, its "miztli", close in prononciation to the others.
I propose it's originally a Nahuatl word or maybe the south. Athabascans
introduced the word after migrating to the pueblo area ?
Acee Agoyo
|> a "native", i.e. a Finn (our ancestors arrived into present-day Finland
|> at least 5000 years ago, speaking an Ugric language). Also, in many ways,
|> Finnish is the most archaic language of the Finno-Ugric-Samoyedic group.
|> What tongue could "acee" belong to ? There is such a mix-up of Indian
|> languages in Oklahoma...
I forget exactly. The person for whom I am named--Acee Blue Eagle, was
part Pawnee.
|> I propose it's originally a Nahuatl word or maybe the south. Athabascans
|> introduced the word after migrating to the pueblo area ?
If it were a Nahuatl word, the fact that Nahuatl, Hopi and Tewa are in the same
language group would explain that similarity. So the Keres, Zuni, and Navajo
words for cat might be borrowed from Uto-Aztecan languages. Or Athabascan
speakers might have introduced the word and it might have gotten down to
Mexico sooner or later. Its really interesting to see where it might have
come from. I'd guess that the words for cat in Pima, Papago, and Apache are
similar, also. I don't know about Towa or Tiwa, though. . .
Acee Agoyo
ago...@athena.mit.edu
litherland kathryn j
>I have a question for those who know about loan words. I noticed that
>Tewa, Keres, Zuni, and Nahuatl have similar words for cat. In Tewa, it
>is "muusa", in Keres its "muus", in Zuni, its also "muusa", and in
>Nahuatl, its "miztli", close in prononciation to the others. My question
>is, when did cats come into contact with various tribes? Why are all
>the words similar? Does anybody know what language they might be borrowed
>or derived from? Does anybody know the word for cat in other languages?
>Hopi? Navajo?
>Acee Agoyo
>ago...@athena.mit.edu
It is interesting that the word for "cat" in a couple of dialects of Peruvian
dialects of Quechua are mishi and misi--it could be a coincidence, though.
Kathy
Dan McCoy
>
>Yes I know that but I think they are now all extinct...
That's a common misconception about native Californians.
In article <C63oo...@cscns.com> cher...@cscns.com (Agvnige Wohali) writes:
>I think the Hupa speak an Athabaskan language but I am not 100% certain.
They do.
A number of other tribes up in the Northwest corner of California speak
Athabaskan languages: the Tolowa, Chilula, Whilkut, Lassik, Sinkyone, Kato,
Wailaki, Mattole, and Nongatl according to Kroeber's, "Handbook of the
Indians of California".
The Hupa in particular are far from extinct.
They are one of the few Native American tribes to have their ancestral
homeland as their reservation, although some of their neighbors were
displaced onto the Hupa reservation.
Dan McCoy
Agvnige Wohali
>That's a common misconception about native Californians.
WHOA! Hold on a sec! Many people might think all the Indians in
California are gone, but one of my best friends happens to be a Karok from
Happy Camp, waaaaaaay up north east of Eureka, so it would be dumb of me
(dunno about others, though) to assume that the natives of California are
extinct.
Considering, though, that the movie "Last of His Tribe" was about the
Yahi, though, I can kinda see why people would think so.
>The Hupa in particular are far from extinct.
>They are one of the few Native American tribes to have their ancestral
>homeland as their reservation, although some of their neighbors were
>displaced onto the Hupa reservation.
Yurok and Karok, maybe? Who exactly did the Hupa get "stuck" with? Just
curious.
>Dan McCoy
Donadagohv?i,
Agvnige Wohali (Jim Forsyth)
cher...@cscns.com
jfor...@serf.uccs.edu
Chris Newell
mc...@spinach.pixar.com (Dan McCoy) writes:
> >Yes I know that but I think they are now all extinct...
>
> That's a common misconception about native Californians.
You got that right. This is just a little sidenote of information.
What state has the highest American Indian population? I know all you
Oklahomans wanna speak, but it's California. (Oklahoma is the densest
population)
Remember to keep this stuff in mind. I'm a Passamaquoddy from Maine
and I run into a lot of stuff about that. I speak the language and
learned in grade school, but learned most from my father (i'm a
half-breed). Many think that northeastern tribes no longer have any
culture or that there are no full bloods left so I hear a lot from
other people who are uninformed and are amazed when I can greet them in
my own language. Especially being a student at Dartmouth. (seems
nobody knows about Indians here except for the other skins :-).
Anyway, I'm not tryin' to be cruel or nothin'. Actually I just wanted
to say that California has the highest population, but now I've said my
piece.
Later.
Bill Poser
at least in Western North America, often with /b/ instead of /m/.
(For example, in Carrier, an Athapaskan language of British Columbia,
"cat" is boos.) These are generally considered to be loans from
English "puss(y)", with /b/ or /m/ instead of /p/ due to the absence
of /p/ in many of these languages and the absence or rarity of /b/.
Bill
Chris Newell
Christophe...@dartmouth.edu (Chris Newell) writes:
> (Oklahoma is the densest
> population)
I guess I should have clarified things. Please if you're from Oklahoma
don't take offense (i've gotten a few responses to that comment) What
I meant by densest population was the most per square mile. I
should've thought more when I was writing that. I'm sorry if anybody
took what I said the wrong way.
send responses to
Christoph...@dartmouth.edu
"...When sun warms your body thru in the heart of the land
And smiles play on our children's faces
You can see the work of Koluskap's hand."
--Red Hawk
Penobscot
(from the poem Penobscot Home Nation)
Wes Wildcat
First of all I'm a terrible speller, but in a previous post someone asked how
"cat" was translated in different languages. These aren't the correct spellingsbut they sound like this, in Cherokee cat is "wes", if my parents knew this theymay not have given me my name. In Creek it is "beau she".
>
Noodle
wil...@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Wes Wildcat) writes:
> First of all I'm a terrible speller, but in a previous post someone asked how
> "cat" was translated in different languages. These aren't the correct spellingsbut they sound like this, in Cherokee cat is "wes", if my parents knew this theymay not have given me my name. In Creek it is "beau she".
In Passamaquoddy it is "psuwis."
send all responses to
Christoph...@dartmouth.edu
"They speak of my drinking, but never of my thirst."
--Scottish Proverb
Tero . Tommila
>mc...@spinach.pixar.com (Dan McCoy) writes:
>>Dan McCoy
>Donadagohv?i,
>Agvnige Wohali (Jim Forsyth)
>cher...@cscns.com
>jfor...@serf.uccs.edu
Hey guys, are you both Cherokees ? For me Donadagohv?i sounds quite
"Iroquoian"...
Rgds
Tero
Arlen Speights
>>The Hupa in particular are far from extinct.
>>They are one of the few Native American tribes to have their ancestral
>>homeland as their reservation, although some of their neighbors were
>>displaced onto the Hupa reservation.
>Yurok and Karok, maybe? Who exactly did the Hupa get "stuck" with? Just
>curious.
The Hupa have a reservation ("the square") in the five rivers
watershed area in way Northern California. As I understand it,
the Yurok and Karuk had originally lived in the same area, and
there was some general movement around the region but each nation
respected certain boundaries and cultural differences. The Square
is generally where the Hupa say they lived, and I believe that the
Yurok and Karuk were supposed to share the original rez, living on
what was closest to their part. Some legal manipulation recently
allotted much of the land along the Klamath river to Yurok tribal
members, and much of it was grabbed by private timber interests.
The Karuk fared worse, and have very little legal land base.
Each nation maintains a lot of solidarity, although intermarriage
is not uncommon and many of the traditional dances are participated
in by all three. The area is breathtakingly beautiful, and there
is a very high concentration of Indian people living back there--
pretty refreshing!
This of course is the information and impression I got when I
was there earlier this spring; I could be off on a few points.
Arlen
--
:-(-:-(-:-(-:-( spei...@iear.arts.rpi.edu )-:-)-:-)-:-)-:
"Even now, we scarcely feel our hearts beat before they break in protest"
-Stanley Diamond
--
Dan McCoy
>WHOA! Hold on a sec! Many people might think all the Indians in
>California are gone, but one of my best friends happens to be a Karok from
>Happy Camp, waaaaaaay up north east of Eureka, so it would be dumb of me
>(dunno about others, though) to assume that the natives of California are
>extinct.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was replying to two different posts
in one message. The extinction comment I was responding to wasn't yours.
Happy Camp sure is waaaaay up there.
It's so remote, that if it hadn't been for the California gold rush,
which sent hordes of greedy intolerant white people up every river and
stream in California, the Karok might have been able to go about their
lives relatively undisturbed.
(While we're getting rid of offensive "indian" team mascots,
maybe someone should think twice about those 49'ers.)
>Considering, though, that the movie "Last of His Tribe" was about the
>Yahi, though, I can kinda see why people would think so.
Between that film and at least three books about Ishi, the last survivor
of the Yahi, one of which was required reading in a lot of California
schools, not to mention all of the press Ishi receive way back when,
it is easy to see why so many people think California Indians are extinct.
>>[The Hupa] are one of the few Native American tribes to have their ancestral
>>homeland as their reservation, although some of their neighbors were
>>displaced onto the Hupa reservation.
>
>Yurok and Karok, maybe? Who exactly did the Hupa get "stuck" with? Just
>curious.
Probably mostly Yurok and Karok, although many of the other tribes in
that area have no reservation and were depleted to such low numbers that
the Hupa reservation was nearly the only alternative to complete assimilation
into the dominate culture.
The Yurok and Karok cultures are so closely related to the Hupa culture that
there was a lot of historical intermingling anyway. (Although the three
languages could hardly be more diverse: Athabascan, Algonkin and Hokan).
Dan McCoy mc...@pixar.com
Dan McCoy
>Oklahomans wanna speak, but it's California.
True.
I don't know the exact breakdown, but a very large percentage
are from other parts of the country.
Just like a large percentage of white Californians weren't born in California.
I wonder what state has the highest population of Native Americans native
to that state.
My guess would be that it wouldn't be California (but I could be wrong.)
Dan McCoy mc...@pixar.com
Acee Agoyo
|> It is interesting that the word for "cat" in a couple of dialects of Peruvian
|> dialects of Quechua are mishi and misi--it could be a coincidence, though.
the responses to my original question. Does anybody know how long cats have
been present in the Americas?
Acee Agoyo
ago...@athena.mit.edu
Acee Agoyo
often have /p/ and /b/ sounds, such as Tewa and Hopi. Nahuatl doesn't
have /b/, though. The English loan word explanation is very plausible,
considering that so many different languages have similar words.
Acee Agoyo
ago...@athena.mit.edu
Daniel Ammon
>The Hupa have a reservation ("the square") in the five rivers
>watershed area in way Northern California.
The Hoopa Valley Tribe has a 90,000 acre reservation in eastern
Humboldt County, northwestern California. The Trinity River runs
through the square, then joins the Klamath River and goes out to
the ocean.
>As I understand it,
>the Yurok and Karuk had originally lived in the same area, and
>there was some general movement around the region but each nation
>respected certain boundaries and cultural differences.
The aboriginal Yurok territory is down the Klamath River. The
aboriginal Karuk territory is the upper Klamath River. Tribal
boundaries are acknowledged.
>The Square
>is generally where the Hupa say they lived, and I believe that the
>Yurok and Karuk were supposed to share the original rez, living on
>what was closest to their part.
There were different bands (Redwood Creek, Hoopa Valley, South Fork)
of Hupa speaking peoples with minor language dialectical differences.
The Redwood Creek territory and the South Fork/New River territory are
not on the reservation. The area that became a reservation belonged
orginally to the Hupa people of Hoopa Valley.
Many of the Redwood Creeks merged with the people in Hoopa Valley,
and became Hoopa Valley Tribal members. Many of the South Fork/New River
people returned to their homeland (south of the reservation) and have
been living there the last 120 years or so. This is my people and we
call ourselves Tsnungwe. The federal government does not currently
recognize us as a tribe, and we have been actively seeking to have our
recognized status restored.
The 1864 Treaty of Peace set aside the Hoopa Reservation for the
Hoopa, Redwood Creek, South Fork, and Grouse Creek Indians. The Yurok
and Karuk were not supposed to share the original reservation.
> Some legal manipulation recently
>allotted much of the land along the Klamath river to Yurok tribal
>members, and much of it was grabbed by private timber interests.
Many Yuroks allotted along the Klamath sold their allotments along time
ago. Now, they have a reservation that contains about 34,000 acres yet most
of this is privately owned by timber companies (about 30,000 acres).
>The Karuk fared worse, and have very little legal land base.
The Karuk people gained their federal tribal recognition in the 1970s.
Although there land base is tiny, many of their people still reside in
their aboriginal territory and they are able to provide many services
and sustain a strong culture.
>This of course is the information and impression I got when I
>was there earlier this spring; I could be off on a few points.
>
>Arlen
What were you doing in Hoopa?
Danny Ammon
Joseph Warden
This is from memory, but the data is readily available. The states with
the largest indigenous population (according to the census bureau) are
Oklahoma, Arizona and New Mexico. A discussion of this is in the book
edited by Annette Jaimes: "The State of Native America."
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Joseph Warden
Department of Chemistry
Rensselaer
Troy, NY 12180-3590
EMail: war...@rpi.edu or userhay3@rpitsmts (BITNET)
Tel: (518)276-8482
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