My horror experience with Proton Waja
fairplay
Afiq Aziz, Shah
Alam
2:53pm Tue Jan 6th, 2004
I received my Proton Waja in August 2001 after a six months’ wait. I was
looking forward to an enjoyable drive to and from work for the next few
years before I retire. But was I dead wrong!
In the first week, I found the wheels wobble whenever the speedometer
exceeded 80kph. At the first 1,000km service, I complained to the EON
service centre in Glenmarie. After leaving the car overnight, the
service executive told me 'semua sudah check encik, everything OK!"
The next day, on my way to work, I discovered the wobbling was still
there. As I needed the car for work, I have to wait for my next 5,000km
service to lodge another complaint, even though it meant that I had to
be careful not to exceed the 80kph limit. After the second service,
another service executive told me, "OK, encik, sudah check dan test
drive… semua OK, nothing wrong with the wheel, maybe it's the tyres,
please check with Sime tyres."
The next day I went to Sime Tyres in Jalan Tandang and lodged a
complaint. After forwarding the suggestion made by the EON service
executive, the people at Sime Tyres were kind enough to attend to my
complaint and without much question directed me to his agent in Section
20, Subang Jaya to get two new replacement tyres for free!
Unfortunately, I discovered the wobbling persisted. I thought to myself:
"If it’s not the tyres then it must be the wheels!". (I pity Sime Tyres
for taking the blame for Proton's lack of quality control and disposing
two new tyres for free). Two days later, I took my car to a tyre service
centre in Subang Jaya.
The 'trained by experience' mechanic took a look at both the front
wheels and check for any deformation. Sure enough, at first glance he
told me the wheels were deformed. Immediately the mechanic dismantled my
two front wheels for repair and put two temporary wheels so that I don't
have to leave my car behind. The next day, the mechanic took me for a
test drive and walla! the wobbling was gone.
For EON/Proton, to supply a new car with a deformed wheel is bad enough
but being unable to detect the problem when I sent the car twice for
servicing is something that is unacceptable.
After driving the same car for two years I found it has never given me a
peace of mind. The 'search' and 'volume' button on the steering wheel is
easily broken and so far I have to replace them twice.
The digital clock was never accurate. In one week, the clock differed by
10 minutes. Didn't Proton check or calibrate the equipment before
installation? As the clock comes together with the odometer, once it was
replaced, the speedometer will begin from '0' again. Now my odometer
reads 36,000km when the car has actually done 50,000km.
On the third service, I requested EON to change the reading light bulb.
For that simple job, the mechanic broke the whole plastic bracket and
did not bother to inform me. I only realised that the bracket was broken
when I was cleaning the car at home.
The Waja also comes with a flimsy door handle. So far I have changed
three door handles. Of course, these parts replacement are done under
warranty but what about the time wasted to get the replacement done, the
waiting time for parts, and the time I was deprive of using my car?
Now I have a new problem. The alarm triggers itself at very odd times.
Again when I visited the EON service centre, the same answer was given
"Sudah check, encik...tak de apa-apa masaalah'. Even after taking the
car to an EON agent in Bandar Baru Bangi, the problem persisted. To
avoid further hassle and after considering the likelihood that EON will
not be able to rectify the problem, I have decided to use a steering
lock instead.
EON and Proton cannot be global players when even small problems like
those I am facing cannot be fixed. And please, don't blame your parts
vendors.
By the way, I drive a Proton not by choice... It is a company car. I
have another imported 'reconditioned' car manufactured in 1997 and thank
God, after driving it for the last three years, the only problem I have
faced so far (other than normal wear and tear) is when the radiator
stopper broke and that costed RM2 to replace!
autoquartz
and the glove box plastic latch/lock. Was wondering what have we benefitted
from the 20 years of high tariff for import cars if this is how far Proton
can get in all these years. Maybe it is time for us to let go our "Malaysia
Boleh" pride and admit that Proton cannot compete in the international
automobile arena no matter how many more years we give them and let us get
our BMW 318 at the price of Perdana.
--
.autoquartz.
Yap Yok Foo
wrote:
>My horror experience with Proton Waja
>Afiq Aziz, Shah
>looking forward to an enjoyable drive to and from work for the next few
>years before I retire. But was I dead wrong!
I wonder why people like to belittle Malaysian products this way
My wife bought a Proton Waja in March 2002 after waiting for more than
8 months (but then I always believe that the stall where you have to
wait the longest time to be given a table and served the food must
have the best food). Since then, it has become a favourite car of the
family. The aircon is more reliable and colder than my Volvo 850 and
the maintenance costs are very reasonable (in fact any of my service
visits to Federal Auto for my Volvo will cost me more than the entire
annual maintenance costs of BOTH the Waja and the other Malaysian car
in my house, a Perodua Kembara)
I am very happy with the two Malaysian cars in my house. If the truth
be known, every make of car has its own little problems but to
highlight it this way (and to further disseminate it thro the
Internet) seems to me to be the work of probably people who are
against Malaysian products (maybe the work of a staff of a company
marketing another brand of foreign cars or people generally disgrunted
with anything Malaysian and who will waste no time denigrating)
Let's not make too much of a complaint from a person about a
particular car. The only product where the user is totally and
absolutely happy with for ever and ever is the coffin :-)
*************From Uncle Yap**************
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fairplay
I think this person bought a lemon. It happens sometimes.
It would be interesting to a response from the car company if they read
Malaysiakini.
Dave Baker
>For EON/Proton, to supply a new car with a deformed wheel is bad enough
>but being unable to detect the problem when I sent the car twice for
>servicing is something that is unacceptable.
My new 1.8 Wira was supplied with faulty wheel bearings on 3 wheels.
The local service agent refused to fix them under warranty, and I had to take
it to the main service centre at Sungei Besi. I happened to have an
interesting chat with the manager there, finding out that many Wiras had the
same problem cause they had been sitting out in the weather for almost a year
before delivery. He also told me that my local agent should have changed the
bearings, but many agents just want to make money on the services.
So, I spoke to the EON Franchise Manager & got some action, eventually having
a face-to-face meeting with the local agent & the Franchise Manager. After
that I got good service - now if there is a broken part I take the car in,
they verify it, then order the part, Next day I put the car in to have the
part replaced. Many of the smaller agents don't carry the parts, but all of
them SHOULD order & get them within a day.
Dave
Stephen Lim
wrote:
>I wonder why people like to belittle Malaysian products this way
on the contrary uncle yap, people are belittling a malaysian company
who claims the car is "asian answer to BMW" doesn't actually lived up
to that promise. it's a big letdown and as such truly deserve such a
belittlement.
>
>My wife bought a Proton Waja in March 2002 after waiting for more than
>8 months (but then I always believe that the stall where you have to
>wait the longest time to be given a table and served the food must
>have the best food). Since then, it has become a favourite car of the
>family. The aircon is more reliable and colder than my Volvo 850 and
>the maintenance costs are very reasonable (in fact any of my service
>visits to Federal Auto for my Volvo will cost me more than the entire
>annual maintenance costs of BOTH the Waja and the other Malaysian car
>in my house, a Perodua Kembara)
while you wait for 8 months, your long wait was caused by their sales
agent who jump other customers over your head by undertable money.
And if you do come by to Glenmarie or the other proton warehouse area,
the whole place is packed full of Wajas and Wiras...you go figure why
there is still a waiting list?
volvo air con is not a good comparison for the waja. The best air con
makes are done by the japs of which waja buys as OEM product. Some
continental makes are also using the japs (eg the french cars) for OEM
aircon.
and frankly the volvo can be quite a unpredictable car..we have one in
the family..broke down more than my french car.
>
>I am very happy with the two Malaysian cars in my house. If the truth
>be known, every make of car has its own little problems but to
>highlight it this way (and to further disseminate it thro the
>Internet) seems to me to be the work of probably people who are
>against Malaysian products (maybe the work of a staff of a company
>marketing another brand of foreign cars or people generally disgrunted
>with anything Malaysian and who will waste no time denigrating)
may i invite you to www.autoworld.com.my and check out the
"complaints" from a wide range of proton owners and ex owners..
they are certainly not working for companies which sells foreign cars
or are competitors of protons..
>Let's not make too much of a complaint from a person about a
>particular car. The only product where the user is totally and
>absolutely happy with for ever and ever is the coffin :-)
on the contrary - uncle yap
there are few issues which riles up car owners in malaysia
one is we pay a high price to "subsidize" proton market share
secondly , we pay this high price which do not correspond to the
quality it should be
thirdly , our proton here with less safety features and setup is more
expensive than the ones sold in europe
and yet, the CEO of Proton deem it worthy to comment that airbag is
not neccessary for malaysians..
if you drive up to the toll gate, you may notice this interesting
observation..a lot of proton (and proton only mind you) car owners
open their door to take the toll ticket..
one wonder why! :)
to end this, let me give you an example..if you find out for the same
amount of money you pay a proton, you can get a better car like the
toyota or honda in thailand, do you wonder if this is a good thing?
and lastly, proton cannot sell their cars overseas..it's export market
has been a failure...proton is a jaguh kampung.
Stephen Lim
wrote:
>I think this person bought a lemon. It happens sometimes.
>It would be interesting to a response from the car company if they read
>Malaysiakini.
>
the ceo of proton has made a statement that feedback on internet
forums and as such are all rubbish.
so , the answer is no, they won't respond. this is how proton treat
their customers.
Mr_Magoo
> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 09:16:15 -0600, fairplay <fair...@hiwaay.net>
> wrote:
> >My horror experience with Proton Waja
> >Afiq Aziz, Shah
> >years before I retire. But was I dead wrong!
>
> I wonder why people like to belittle Malaysian products this way
Yes. I wonder that too.
I believed the original poster should have take that proton service
executive for a test drive in his car to prove his point. That is what
I would do if I was him.
> My wife bought a Proton Waja in March 2002 after waiting for more than
> 8 months (but then I always believe that the stall where you have to
> wait the longest time to be given a table and served the food must
> have the best food). Since then, it has become a favourite car of the
> family. The aircon is more reliable and colder than my Volvo 850 and
> the maintenance costs are very reasonable (in fact any of my service
> visits to Federal Auto for my Volvo will cost me more than the entire
> annual maintenance costs of BOTH the Waja and the other Malaysian car
> in my house, a Perodua Kembara)
>
> I am very happy with the two Malaysian cars in my house. If the truth
> be known, every make of car has its own little problems but to
> highlight it this way (and to further disseminate it thro the
> Internet) seems to me to be the work of probably people who are
> against Malaysian products (maybe the work of a staff of a company
> marketing another brand of foreign cars or people generally disgrunted
> with anything Malaysian and who will waste no time denigrating)
>
> Let's not make too much of a complaint from a person about a
> particular car. The only product where the user is totally and
> absolutely happy with for ever and ever is the coffin :-)
>
I have one Waja too at home and it has been more than 2 years free
problem so far except for the power window motor which just kaput
recently. And before someone started to flame me, I have also seen my
friend 3 months old Merc which has a problem where his rear break
light becomes a fishing tank. Of cause he had it replace soon after we
point it out to him. :)
I used to own a Satria before, so based from those 2 cars I can say
that Proton quality did improve a lot compared to the car which they
have produced earlier. Of cause that doesn't means that they don't
need a kick on their ass to improve in other areas such as engine
technology etc.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Gerald
2 batteries over a period of 13 months from delivery. Why? No answer.
2 powered windows over 18 months. A replacement is RM400+ mind you and it
takes about 1 hour just to open the damn thing. There area more then 20
screws at very difficult positions. How badly is this constructed?
1 door latch that broke within the 1st year.
1 shock absorber within 24 months - this means changing both of course.
Booth lid that never could close, mind you - this is soon after I took the
car. Ask them and they go "biasa lah encik".
Ongoing rattling noise inside the dashboard. My friend who runs an EON
service centre gave me this advice: "I can open it, as you are the customer,
and check it, but in most cases of insistence, the amount of rattling
increases after opening the whole dashboard". He advice me against it. Other
service centres gives you the famous: "Oh itu! biasa lah encik".
Another family member has a Waja 1.6 Manual, with similar grouses. My close
friend has had her power windows replaced too, now waiting for her steering
wheel noises to be checked on. I was told that quite a number has this wierd
sound and feel when making a full turn on the steering wheel. This is a
known problem which Proton never did a recall. Most service centres avoid
dealing with the issue, saying it is ok to ignorant buyers/users.
I personally saw a Waja 1.6 Auto sitting in my friends service centre with
the whole engine taken apart. Probing (being the kepo I am) I found out that
the engine locked and it was due to a screw or bolt which was left inside
the engine during assembly. This was a 2 month old Waja premium edition and
it has been sitting in the service center for more then a month waiting for
parts. Can you beat that?
If you want to know more, just have a teh tarik with an EON or Proton
service centre owner. You can hear all the horror stories.
I have just passed my 24 months warranty, I dread to think what is in store
for me in the near future.
BTW. My Sime tyre was replaced with a Bridgestone (which cost RM10 more) for
the exact same problem and it is much quieter now, and feels better on the
road.
I am now waiting for the day all protectionism to Proton is removed and they
have to really compete. These guys have no idea what they are doing and they
sit there laughing at the expense of the rakyat, who have no other choice
but to buy these sub standard products which are forced down our throat.
Now tell me, why shouldn't I support AFTA?
-g
"fairplay" <fair...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:vvlka0i...@corp.supernews.com...
Dave Baker
>Here is my Waja 1.6 Auto grievances list:
>2 powered windows over 18 months. A replacement is RM400+ mind you and it
>takes about 1 hour just to open the damn thing.
Don't Wajas come with a warranty longer than 18 months? My Wira came with a 3
year warranty. I had 2 power windows replaced within the first 18 months as
well, but it didn't cost me a sen.
Dave
Yap Yok Foo
wrote:
>on the contrary uncle yap, people are belittling a malaysian company
>who claims the car is "asian answer to BMW" doesn't actually lived up
>to that promise. it's a big letdown and as such truly deserve such a
>belittlement.
We call this advertising licence, a bit of a puff that nobody takes
literally unless one pays the same price for it as a BMW
>while you wait for 8 months, your long wait was caused by their sales
>agent who jump other customers over your head by undertable money.
>And if you do come by to Glenmarie or the other proton warehouse area,
>the whole place is packed full of Wajas and Wiras...you go figure why
>there is still a waiting list?
I was formerly with a motor firm and the truism, like most businesses
run with a view to profit, is that stock is idle capital. Nobody, but
nobody runs a business to stock cars (which must be financed) and
create a long waiting list. Sales agents and sales reps are all agog
and eager to translate commissions into bankable cash and it is to
their common interests to realise a sale and collect money.
If, on the other hand, you are referring to EON's less-than-efficient
distribution system, then that's another subject altogether.
>may i invite you to www.autoworld.com.my and check out the
>"complaints" from a wide range of proton owners and ex owners..
>they are certainly not working for companies which sells foreign cars
>or are competitors of protons..
Aiyah, Stephen, you think I want to waste my time looking at other
people's problems when I still haven't completed my Times crossword
today yet?
There are cars and there are cars.
There are complaints and there are complaints.
Only the coffin remains the only uncomplained-about product :-)
>there are few issues which riles up car owners in malaysia
>one is we pay a high price to "subsidize" proton market share
Yes, I do agree with you. But to me, it is already a fait accompli
So do we continue to bitch or do we get on with life?
>secondly , we pay this high price which do not correspond to the
>quality it should be
...only the coffin ......
>thirdly , our proton here with less safety features and setup is more
>expensive than the ones sold in europe
>and yet, the CEO of Proton deem it worthy to comment that airbag is
>not neccessary for malaysians..
see the first
>if you drive up to the toll gate, you may notice this interesting
>observation..a lot of proton (and proton only mind you) car owners
>open their door to take the toll ticket..
>one wonder why! :)
But my son had a Wira earlier and my wife's Waja both have
auto-power windows that work. Maybe these are drivers who drive too
far from the machine and cannot reach...I don't know
>to end this, let me give you an example..if you find out for the same
>amount of money you pay a proton, you can get a better car like the
>toyota or honda in thailand, do you wonder if this is a good thing?
The way you framed the question is designed to get the response you
are looking for. Not quite cricket, is it, Stephen?
>and lastly, proton cannot sell their cars overseas..it's export market
>has been a failure...proton is a jaguh kampung.
I am not a spokesman for Proton, just a satisfied customer.
Time to go finish my crosswords and let the Proton executives earn
their salaries.
Yap Yok Foo
I have one to add
The Waja comes with 4 normal alloy-rim wheels and a fifth spare wheel
which is thinner and fits into a shallow recess in the boot. I decided
to change the fifth spare wheel to a normal wheel but found out I had
to buy a set of 4 normal wheels.
Now, I have three extra normal wheels (anybody wants to buy? I might
be persuaded to sell one at say RM300) in my house
Now I have a spare wheel in my boot that does not fit into the recess
and the covering board is awry and not flat
fairplay
Then the company is doomed to failure when real competition comes.
Surely there should be some watch dog in the govt.
Stephen Lim
wrote:
>>to end this, let me give you an example..if you find out for the same
>>amount of money you pay a proton, you can get a better car like the
>>toyota or honda in thailand, do you wonder if this is a good thing?
>
>The way you framed the question is designed to get the response you
>are looking for. Not quite cricket, is it, Stephen?
aiyah uncle yap, you are no fun lah..this is similar to what you do
every sunday for us on nuance! :)
Gerald
"Dave Baker" <dpb...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
> Don't Wajas come with a warranty longer than 18 months? My Wira came with
a 3
> year warranty. I had 2 power windows replaced within the first 18 months
as
> well, but it didn't cost me a sen.
It is just a 2 years/24 months warranty.
My fear is the surprises after that, which is now, in my case.
-g
Dave Baker
>"Dave Baker" <dpb...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
>> Don't Wajas come with a warranty longer than 18 months? My Wira came with
>a 3 year warranty.
>It is just a 2 years/24 months warranty.
Strange - I wonder why the old Wira had longer warranty than the Waja -
sounds like EON don't think their Waja will last as long! :-)
>My fear is the surprises after that, which is now, in my case.
Mine still has 5 more months of warranty - I've found that most of the
problems were ironed out in the first year or so. We've had few or no
problems in the last year or so.
Dave
Mr_Magoo
----snip----
> may i invite you to www.autoworld.com.my and check out the
> "complaints" from a wide range of proton owners and ex owners..
Stephen, have it come across your mind that probably the reason why
you will find more complaint about Proton then non-proton cars (say a
BMW) because more people are driving proton in Malaysia? :)
> they are certainly not working for companies which sells foreign cars
> or are competitors of protons..
>
> >Let's not make too much of a complaint from a person about a
> >particular car. The only product where the user is totally and
> >absolutely happy with for ever and ever is the coffin :-)
>
> on the contrary - uncle yap
>
> there are few issues which riles up car owners in malaysia
>
> one is we pay a high price to "subsidize" proton market share
> secondly , we pay this high price which do not correspond to the
> quality it should be
The high price we paid is not only to subsidize proton but instead to
subsidize our government. Remember they need more money to buy Russian
aircraft or Airbus at higher price than other buyers. So this is an
indirect cost we all consumers have to pay as long as we tolerate
bribery :)
Also please remember that Proton higher pricing got something to do
with volume of cars they produced. The other big manufacturer can
reduce their price because of their higher sales volume worldwide.
> thirdly , our proton here with less safety features and setup is more
> expensive than the ones sold in europe
> and yet, the CEO of Proton deem it worthy to comment that airbag is
> not neccessary for malaysians..
This one I agreed with you.
But I believed other car manufacturer also do the same. i.e their
domestic market is used to subsidized for their sales oversea.
> if you drive up to the toll gate, you may notice this interesting
> observation..a lot of proton (and proton only mind you) car owners
> open their door to take the toll ticket..
>
> one wonder why! :)
Don't want to spend money to buy the power window motor?
Come on Stephen... don't tell me you would expect the power window to
work eternally?
FYI, I have drive around couple of my friends from Australia and they
are pretty impressed with Waja. This I have known my Aussie friends
for couple of years which enough for me to know whether they are
trying to pull my leg or they are making a sincere comment. In fact, I
can tell you the character of most Aussies I have met, they are the
type of will tell you straight in the face if they don't like it or if
something is fuck up. Unlike most Malaysian who normally will try to
give face to our host.
Just look at our Aussies friend in this newsgroup. :)
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Reader
Having to travel to the service centre involve costs. Time cost, fuel
cost, leisure lost, etc.....
:(
Stephen Lim
>Stephen, have it come across your mind that probably the reason why
>you will find more complaint about Proton then non-proton cars (say a
>BMW) because more people are driving proton in Malaysia? :)
of course this is one possibility magoo.. but come on....
when i take my former proton wira to respray the roof, the fella says
this is a common problem with the wira..you don't see this with the
toyotas and nissan and hondas..
what is that supposed to mean? if you want to do a controlled test,
sure bring out the equivalent of both numbers of cars and then see if
the percentage of faults per batch is the same. maybe this may
convince you then.
>The high price we paid is not only to subsidize proton but instead to
>subsidize our government. Remember they need more money to buy Russian
>aircraft or Airbus at higher price than other buyers. So this is an
>indirect cost we all consumers have to pay as long as we tolerate
>bribery :)
of course if you :) :) say so :) :)
>Also please remember that Proton higher pricing got something to do
>with volume of cars they produced. The other big manufacturer can
>reduce their price because of their higher sales volume worldwide.
of course so the natural thing to do is to go that direction...but to
keep requesting for protection is not a solution (esp to us who have
to bear with the consequences)
>But I believed other car manufacturer also do the same. i.e their
>domestic market is used to subsidized for their sales oversea.
yes this do happen esp if they can't break into that market for eg the
koreans
>Don't want to spend money to buy the power window motor?
no lah prolong the wear and tear! :)
>Come on Stephen... don't tell me you would expect the power window to
>work eternally?
then dear magoo..how long do you think a reasonable power window
should last? one year? two years on approximate?
>FYI, I have drive around couple of my friends from Australia and they
>are pretty impressed with Waja. This I have known my Aussie friends
>for couple of years which enough for me to know whether they are
>trying to pull my leg or they are making a sincere comment. In fact, I
>can tell you the character of most Aussies I have met, they are the
>type of will tell you straight in the face if they don't like it or if
>something is fuck up. Unlike most Malaysian who normally will try to
>give face to our host.
i am sure they will be impressed. ask them to go back and buy one in
australia. let me know how it turns out ok?
>Just look at our Aussies friend in this newsgroup. :)
you mean dave..nah he has no choice! :) just like all of us here!
autoquartz
have to bare the parts and labours costs after the warranty.
--
.autoquartz.
"Dave Baker" <dpb...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
news:mvtmvv49c3fgu1pki...@4ax.com...
ohara
It is built like an aeroplane or tank. Mind u, Fiat built airplanes and
military vehicles too.
Exccept for the aircond problem and the power steering leakage which only
cropped up recently, there's no problem at all with the car.
And the powerwindow has been working for the past 6 years without any
changes.
And I was involved in an accident in the highway. the car was damaged and
after repairs, still no problem.
The repairmen who took a look at my car told me, he was amazed that my leg
was till there when the door side of the car hit the highway metal
barricade. According to him, if it was a proton, my leg will be gone
already. The fiat door was damaged and twisted. He said the metal
construction was tough, unlike Proton's. The highway metal barricade was
twisted and flew away from the side of the highway during the collision.like
matchstick.
---
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fairplay
going strong.
jay
wrote:
>>
>> then dear magoo..how long do you think a reasonable power window
>> should last? one year? two years on approximate?
>>
>>
>My power window on the nissan ( 200 thousand miles and 10 years)still
>going strong.
i thought you drove a merc (not mercury). ;-) probably your second or
third beater uh?
my last car, prelude had over 210k miles and everything worked fine.
the car could still do 130mph with that much mileage on the engine.
ended up donating it and getting a nice tax break. ;-)
fairplay
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:06:13 -0600, fairplay <fair...@hiwaay.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>then dear magoo..how long do you think a reasonable power window
>>>should last? one year? two years on approximate?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>My power window on the nissan ( 200 thousand miles and 10 years)still
>>going strong.
>
>
>
> i thought you drove a merc (not mercury). ;-) probably your second or
> third beater uh?
That was my spare. But fun to drive ( v6 nissan maxima) The merc still a
family car..
>
> my last car, prelude had over 210k miles and everything worked fine.
> the car could still do 130mph with that much mileage on the engine.
> ended up donating it and getting a nice tax break. ;-)
Is break based on retail , wholesale or average?
April is around the corner..
>
>
Mr_Magoo
> On 6 Jan 2004 22:38:58 -0800, sh...@usa.com (Mr_Magoo) wrote:
>
>
> >Stephen, have it come across your mind that probably the reason why
> >you will find more complaint about Proton then non-proton cars (say a
> >BMW) because more people are driving proton in Malaysia? :)
>
> of course this is one possibility magoo.. but come on....
> when i take my former proton wira to respray the roof, the fella says
> this is a common problem with the wira..you don't see this with the
> toyotas and nissan and hondas..
Stephen. I don't know about Wira. I do believe that some of the
complaint must be true about the QC for previous model. What I can say
based from my personnal experience is that for Waja, Proton QC did
improve a lot compare to my ex-satria. Don't you agree with me on
this?
Remember, I am not saying that Proton car is superior than other car.
Their R&D do need to do lots of homework to get to where other big
players are. No doubt about that.
> what is that supposed to mean? if you want to do a controlled test,
> sure bring out the equivalent of both numbers of cars and then see if
> the percentage of faults per batch is the same. maybe this may
> convince you then.
Sure if only we can do that.
So you think other cars manufacturer don't have problems too? Remember
GM, they also did recall some of their brands to rectify some problem.
> >The high price we paid is not only to subsidize proton but instead to
> >subsidize our government. Remember they need more money to buy Russian
> >aircraft or Airbus at higher price than other buyers. So this is an
> >indirect cost we all consumers have to pay as long as we tolerate
> >bribery :)
>
> of course if you :) :) say so :) :)
Glad you agree with me about this.
> >Also please remember that Proton higher pricing got something to do
> >with volume of cars they produced. The other big manufacturer can
> >reduce their price because of their higher sales volume worldwide.
>
> of course so the natural thing to do is to go that direction...but to
> keep requesting for protection is not a solution (esp to us who have
> to bear with the consequences)
If you read my previous posting about Proton, you will realise that I
do think that Proton should team up with other big players & let them
buy some of their shares so that they can turn out their manufacturing
facialities in Malaysia to built their partner cars instead of just
proton cars. I believed there should be able to come out with win-win
situation for both parties if Proton (govt in this case) is serious
about it.
> >But I believed other car manufacturer also do the same. i.e their
> >domestic market is used to subsidized for their sales oversea.
>
> yes this do happen esp if they can't break into that market for eg the
> koreans
>
> >Don't want to spend money to buy the power window motor?
>
> no lah prolong the wear and tear! :)
>
> >Come on Stephen... don't tell me you would expect the power window to
> >work eternally?
>
> then dear magoo..how long do you think a reasonable power window
> should last? one year? two years on approximate?
I would be happy if it can work up to a couple of years. However, no
matter what the MTBF is, I do believe that sometimes things might fail
just after you use it. It is no different than other products.
> >FYI, I have drive around couple of my friends from Australia and they
> >are pretty impressed with Waja. This I have known my Aussie friends
> >for couple of years which enough for me to know whether they are
> >trying to pull my leg or they are making a sincere comment. In fact, I
> >can tell you the character of most Aussies I have met, they are the
> >type of will tell you straight in the face if they don't like it or if
> >something is fuck up. Unlike most Malaysian who normally will try to
> >give face to our host.
>
> i am sure they will be impressed. ask them to go back and buy one in
> australia. let me know how it turns out ok?
Getting impressed and actually go and buy it is a two different issue
my friend.
FYI, I am pretty impressed with Ferrari. So does it means I am going
to buy it? :)
I believed most of us before they buy something, they will need to
look into other area as well. Such as whether it is easy to find spare
part, spare part prices, fuel economical, cost to service the car & of
cause the car price itself which is the most important factor (I
believed). As I mentioned earlier, price factor will depend on volume.
This is a chicken and egg question. Which I can't help.
> >Just look at our Aussies friend in this newsgroup. :)
>
> you mean dave..nah he has no choice! :) just like all of us here!
No. That is not what I meant. I was not refering to whether Dave have
Proton or not. Heck, how do I know what car he is driving.
I was trying to highlight to you the character of many Aussies that I
have meet before. Where the things they said do come out from their
heart. What this means is that although they are my guest here in
Malaysia, if they see something sucks they won't hessistate to say it
straight in the face and so does when they praise you. This is a
character which is difficult for you to find among Asian especially
Malaysian. Where we do normally give face to our host.
So when they said that the Waja is a good car so what that tells you?
FYI, I have drive them around to Genting and PD. So it is not just a
short drive in the neighbourhood.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Lim PE
petrol pumps & odometer were fine @ even 80000 km.
Rust appeared on bonnet & tailgate & doors & roof, rustiest car
body I know, no match with Nissan / Honda's rustproofing.
Fuse box near driver's door has 2 relays made by Nippondenso (
relay's pin 1&2 connect to a solenoid & resistor inside relay, pin 3
& 4 is the switch to supply current ) : the left relay ( activated when
engine's water is hot enough ) controls radiator's fan, this relay's
wiring is correct. But the right relay's wiring design is bad : pin 2
gets current whenever ignition switch is on, so pin 3&4 are shorted
by solenoid inside to pass a current from pin 4 to 3 & to windows'
motors. When engine is cranked this design wastes 12½ v ÷ 73½
ohm = 0.17 amp of battery's output, after engine starts 14½ v ÷ 73½
ohm = 0.197 amp of alternator's output. Worse still is the heat
produced by this relay.
Incredibly stupid is this design : beside the weight & cost of this
relay, Sagas users' air spaces are made harder to cool, engines cannot
start faster, are noisier ( exhaust noise rises with smaller sparks ) &
torques are lower ( caused by fewer amps available to ignition coil ).
Users can check if a Saga has this flaw, by touching this relay to
feel this unwanted heat. Remedy is pulling out this relay, & use a U
shape nail to short pin 3&4's slots.
Spark plug cables's carbon content must be too low : resistance is
37% higher than honda's. Even thrifty users should replace cables to
@ least a set of used honda ( Sumitomo ) cables.
Distributor & starter solenoid caps have no gasket, dust gets in &
reduce current flow.
Battery terminals use copper, my Saga's +ve terminal was corroded
by acid fume til broken. Users better paint these terminals, to stop
corrosion. Mercedes & Nissan wisely use aluminium.
2yr ago my cousin bought a Perdana on hp : gearbox oil kept leaking
even after 3 free repairs, he said EON in Shah Alam returned his
money.
Waja 1.8 owners better change their *exhaust manifolds ( short 4
into1, cheap, inefficient, real bottleneck ) to e.g. a Marco ( made in
Malacca ) manifold, or engines' torque & mpg will be lower esp @
high rpm. Many car makers ( incl Nissan in sunny 130Y, Hyundai in
sonata 2.4 litre ) save on *, because 99.9% buyers do not [i] test
drive on highways [ii] have experience of the difference between
short & long *.
Johnson Luqaz
"Melayu" product.
thanks.
On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:43:29 +0800, Yap Yok Foo <yfy...@streamyx.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 09:16:15 -0600, fairplay <fair...@hiwaay.net>
> wrote:
>> My horror experience with Proton Waja
>> Afiq Aziz, Shah
>> I received my Proton Waja in August 2001 after a six months’ wait. I was
>> looking forward to an enjoyable drive to and from work for the next few
>> years before I retire. But was I dead wrong!
>
> I wonder why people like to belittle Malaysian products this way
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
AAA
boycott buying any cars until the govt lifts the blooody tax
ohara
taxes are all gone
jay
wrote:
>> i thought you drove a merc (not mercury). ;-) probably your second or
>> third beater uh?
>That was my spare. But fun to drive ( v6 nissan maxima) The merc still a
> family car..
>>
>> my last car, prelude had over 210k miles and everything worked fine.
>> the car could still do 130mph with that much mileage on the engine.
>> ended up donating it and getting a nice tax break. ;-)
>
>Is break based on retail , wholesale or average?
>April is around the corner..
kelly blue book or any one of those books. but it is too late you to
take a deduction for last year. anyting you donate this year would be
counted when you file taxes next year.
jay
<jlu...@pc.jaring.my> wrote:
>As in all things Malaysians, it is forbidden to tell the truth about a
>"Melayu" product.
i don't think its a "melayu" product. more like a barisan or umno
product. all the top people probably have their hands in the proton
cookie jar.
>
DLOs...@yahoo.com
wrote:
>Let's not make too much of a complaint from a person about a
>particular car. The only product where the user is totally and
>absolutely happy with for ever and ever is the coffin :-)
I had got rid of my Proton Wira, which I had considered to be nothing
more than a moving coffin. You guys must have seen on TV or papers how
this unsafe contraption had wrapped itself around lamp post.
The Wira exported to UK had a strengthened doors to meet their minimun
requirement for safety there and cheaper by 35% too.
DLOs...@yahoo.com
<jlu...@pc.jaring.my> wrote:
>As in all things Malaysians, it is forbidden to tell the truth about a
>"Melayu" product.
Its a 'Melayu' product made mostly by chinaman.
DLOs...@yahoo.com
>everybody should switch to riding bicycle and public transport until the
>taxes are all gone
>
Public transport is a joke. Where got enough.
Stephen Lim
>Stephen. I don't know about Wira. I do believe that some of the
>complaint must be true about the QC for previous model. What I can say
>based from my personnal experience is that for Waja, Proton QC did
>improve a lot compare to my ex-satria. Don't you agree with me on
>this?
in actual fact mr magoo, the wira is a better car than waja. it is a
proven model under mistubishi. what was the letdown was the
manufacturing process and the quality control and also the material
used. my problem with my wira was the boils errupting on the roof of
the car - a common problem on the wira due to the way they manufacture
it.
the expectations was high for the waja - since the promises were a lot
for those proton enthuasists. in the end, it was a let down. You may
find that it is better than the satria but a lot of people do not
benchmark against an older proton model but against those in the
market currently - including those thai assembled hondas and toyotas.
If they can do it better up north, what's wrong with ours here?
>Remember, I am not saying that Proton car is superior than other car.
>Their R&D do need to do lots of homework to get to where other big
>players are. No doubt about that.
there is no doubt proton is not a superior car against the other.
Neither was the koreans when they first came out. But over a span of
similar period, do you see a difference among the koreans and the
malaysian cars? do you realise the perception of the korean cars are
getting better even in US , a tough market to penetrate?
>So you think other cars manufacturer don't have problems too? Remember
>GM, they also did recall some of their brands to rectify some problem.
all car manufacturers has problems ..and these bugs has to be
addressed and corrected as soon as possible. that is the hallmark of a
good manufacturer and their distributors.
>If you read my previous posting about Proton, you will realise that I
>do think that Proton should team up with other big players & let them
>buy some of their shares so that they can turn out their manufacturing
>facialities in Malaysia to built their partner cars instead of just
>proton cars. I believed there should be able to come out with win-win
>situation for both parties if Proton (govt in this case) is serious
>about it.
there is too much pride involved. but on the other hand, this is the
model for perodua which has equity from daihatsu. and i am doing my
bit to make enough noise that the government should seriously do
something about the proton situation.
>I would be happy if it can work up to a couple of years. However, no
>matter what the MTBF is, I do believe that sometimes things might fail
>just after you use it. It is no different than other products.
of course everything fails after a period. some longer, some shorter.
some because that stupid design is lousy. open up your power window
and go see for yourself.
>Getting impressed and actually go and buy it is a two different issue
>my friend.
>FYI, I am pretty impressed with Ferrari. So does it means I am going
>to buy it? :)
you missed my point. first off, they are more impressed that there is
a car made in malaysia. secondly it seems decent enough - this car.
the real story can only come about when they own it.
a ferrari is a damn impressive car until you own it. then it will
become a love-hate relationship.
>I believed most of us before they buy something, they will need to
>look into other area as well. Such as whether it is easy to find spare
>part, spare part prices, fuel economical, cost to service the car & of
>cause the car price itself which is the most important factor (I
>believed). As I mentioned earlier, price factor will depend on volume.
>This is a chicken and egg question. Which I can't help.
they priced themselves too high in australia. then they came out with
the tagline " asia answer to BMW" . then they realise no one is buying
it, so they cut the price. even so, it is not a hot item off the
shelf. proton export market is a dismal failure. a jaguh kampung.
if they have a track record like the koreans, then we can beat our
chest a bit more.
have you see the new ad for the arena in australia. a novel way to
sell though i am sure if PAS knew, matilah the government kena
roasted..
>No. That is not what I meant. I was not refering to whether Dave have
>Proton or not. Heck, how do I know what car he is driving.
proton wira 1.8 last i remember
>I was trying to highlight to you the character of many Aussies that I
>have meet before. Where the things they said do come out from their
>heart. What this means is that although they are my guest here in
>Malaysia, if they see something sucks they won't hessistate to say it
>straight in the face and so does when they praise you. This is a
>character which is difficult for you to find among Asian especially
>Malaysian. Where we do normally give face to our host.
of course magoo...and like i said..what if i bring them to thailand
and show them those makes all done up in thailand (all went there
because of proton too) - will this impress them even further?
>
>So when they said that the Waja is a good car so what that tells you?
>FYI, I have drive them around to Genting and PD. So it is not just a
>short drive in the neighbourhood.
this good car thing is subjective. if you need a wheel from A to B
with air con and decent shocks , then it is good enough.
if you own another car like a jap or a continental or a korean and
then you compare it against a proton - then the good becomes
variable...
a jap car is better than a proton but it is expensive..
but in reality it is not and we pay more for imported cars to protect
proton market...for 20 years already..
time to change this - then in an open market let's see if proton car
is as popular as it is because it is a good car. it definitely didn't
do so in the international market and i think the same will happen
likewise in malaysia.
Ir. Hanafi
"Yap Yok Foo" <yfy...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
news:s7olvvc7i6u89h7fp...@4ax.com...
> I wonder why people like to belittle Malaysian products this way
For a very good reason.
> I am very happy with the two Malaysian cars in my house. If the truth
Good for you. Since your family have three cars, chances are those cars
aren't as much used as a family with only one car. Statistically, you see
less problems.
> Let's not make too much of a complaint from a person about a
> particular car. The only product where the user is totally and
That's where you seems to missed the point. It's not just one person. It's
many persons. I myself experienced many problems, to date I own three
Protons, one I have sold off, two Wiras and one Satria.
Also, if one rape is reported, there are many unreported rapes. Malaysians,
either Malays or Chinese, likes to stay silent and mumble only at the back.
Those that dare voice their opinions will almost always get hammered down,
as the Chinese proverbs say: The nail that sticks out will be hammered down.
Madman's Diary
> Its a 'Melayu' product made mostly by chinaman.
what a racist malay bigot!...
go ride your proton to holland!
Mr_Magoo
> On 8 Jan 2004 00:55:37 -0800, sh...@usa.com (Mr_Magoo) wrote:
>
>
> >Stephen. I don't know about Wira. I do believe that some of the
> >complaint must be true about the QC for previous model. What I can say
> >based from my personnal experience is that for Waja, Proton QC did
> >improve a lot compare to my ex-satria. Don't you agree with me on
> >this?
>
> in actual fact mr magoo, the wira is a better car than waja. it is a
> proven model under mistubishi. what was the letdown was the
> manufacturing process and the quality control and also the material
> used. my problem with my wira was the boils errupting on the roof of
> the car - a common problem on the wira due to the way they manufacture
> it.
>
> the expectations was high for the waja - since the promises were a lot
> for those proton enthuasists. in the end, it was a let down. You may
> find that it is better than the satria but a lot of people do not
Actually I compared Waja & Satria because I have owned both cars
before. What I can say is that their QC did improve a lot.
> benchmark against an older proton model but against those in the
> market currently - including those thai assembled hondas and toyotas.
> If they can do it better up north, what's wrong with ours here?
>
> >Remember, I am not saying that Proton car is superior than other car.
> >Their R&D do need to do lots of homework to get to where other big
> >players are. No doubt about that.
>
> there is no doubt proton is not a superior car against the other.
> Neither was the koreans when they first came out. But over a span of
> similar period, do you see a difference among the koreans and the
> malaysian cars? do you realise the perception of the korean cars are
> getting better even in US , a tough market to penetrate?
Depend which Korean car you are trying to compare it with Proton. You
are not comparing Waja with a Sonata aren't you? :)
> >So you think other cars manufacturer don't have problems too? Remember
> >GM, they also did recall some of their brands to rectify some problem.
>
> all car manufacturers has problems ..and these bugs has to be
> addressed and corrected as soon as possible. that is the hallmark of a
> good manufacturer and their distributors.
>
> >If you read my previous posting about Proton, you will realise that I
> >do think that Proton should team up with other big players & let them
> >buy some of their shares so that they can turn out their manufacturing
> >facialities in Malaysia to built their partner cars instead of just
> >proton cars. I believed there should be able to come out with win-win
> >situation for both parties if Proton (govt in this case) is serious
> >about it.
>
> there is too much pride involved. but on the other hand, this is the
> model for perodua which has equity from daihatsu. and i am doing my
> bit to make enough noise that the government should seriously do
> something about the proton situation.
>
> >I would be happy if it can work up to a couple of years. However, no
> >matter what the MTBF is, I do believe that sometimes things might fail
> >just after you use it. It is no different than other products.
>
> of course everything fails after a period. some longer, some shorter.
> some because that stupid design is lousy. open up your power window
> and go see for yourself.
I am. My power window on the driver's side last only 2 years for my
Waja. But again, that is more than what I would expect from my
ex-Satria. Which last only for about 6 months. Since we are talking
about power window, let me tell you of my experience with one of my
client who just bought a new Merc C200 compressor. I found it rather
amuse to see him opening up his door whenever he want to pay aparking
ticket. Of cause I didn't ask him about it knowing that it might be
suicidal for my business relationship with him. So why not you come
out with your own conclusion why he did that? Probably because of his
bad experience with Oroton before? There is a possibility there. But
don't discount on other possibility. Ok? :)
FYI, I have also had some experience with Wira (owned by my parent)
and I would say Waja quality win hands down easily. But bare in mind
that my experience with Wira is not as extensively as with Satria &
Waja. As such, I couldn't draw a conclusion on its quality.
My parent also owned a Merc and I can tell you that its maintenance
cost can easily cover 4 times of the maintenance cost for my Waja.
> >Getting impressed and actually go and buy it is a two different issue
> >my friend.
> >FYI, I am pretty impressed with Ferrari. So does it means I am going
> >to buy it? :)
>
> you missed my point. first off, they are more impressed that there is
> a car made in malaysia. secondly it seems decent enough - this car.
> the real story can only come about when they own it.
Nope. They knew about it long time ago. In fact most of my friends has
been here couple of times even before we are friends and they weren't
impressed with my Satria. (FYI, I just sold off that car couple of
months back) :)
> a ferrari is a damn impressive car until you own it. then it will
> become a love-hate relationship.
>
> >I believed most of us before they buy something, they will need to
> >look into other area as well. Such as whether it is easy to find spare
> >part, spare part prices, fuel economical, cost to service the car & of
> >cause the car price itself which is the most important factor (I
> >believed). As I mentioned earlier, price factor will depend on volume.
> >This is a chicken and egg question. Which I can't help.
>
> they priced themselves too high in australia. then they came out with
> the tagline " asia answer to BMW" . then they realise no one is buying
> it, so they cut the price. even so, it is not a hot item off the
> shelf. proton export market is a dismal failure. a jaguh kampung.
>
> if they have a track record like the koreans, then we can beat our
> chest a bit more.
Some Korean cars are sucks too. I wouldn't think of buying Korean cars
like Kia Sephia or Spectra even if the price go down to 50k or sam
price as Waja. Look carefully when a mechanic open up their door cover
(perhaps when the owner send in their car for tinted film) you will
know what I meant. Waja quality is much more better if not superior
than both cars. I bet its body is much more stronger than these 2
Korean cars.
To be frank, I had a friend (Malaysian of cause) who regretted buying
Kia Sephia. He told me he should have buy Waja instead after I drive
him around in that car. This has happened 2 years back when I first
got that car.
> have you see the new ad for the arena in australia. a novel way to
> sell though i am sure if PAS knew, matilah the government kena
> roasted..
Yes. I have seen them. Pretty innovative I would say. No wonder Arena
is getting pretty famous over there. But actually, I think any SUV
vehicles would have a much better slice of the car market over there
considering many Australians prefer that kind of car.
> >No. That is not what I meant. I was not refering to whether Dave have
> >Proton or not. Heck, how do I know what car he is driving.
>
> proton wira 1.8 last i remember
>
>
> >I was trying to highlight to you the character of many Aussies that I
> >have meet before. Where the things they said do come out from their
> >heart. What this means is that although they are my guest here in
> >Malaysia, if they see something sucks they won't hessistate to say it
> >straight in the face and so does when they praise you. This is a
> >character which is difficult for you to find among Asian especially
> >Malaysian. Where we do normally give face to our host.
>
> of course magoo...and like i said..what if i bring them to thailand
> and show them those makes all done up in thailand (all went there
> because of proton too) - will this impress them even further?
Probably.
Have you ever wonder how well the market going to response if it is
actually proton who did manufacture the new honda city (which I would
rate it at slightly better look than Juara)? :)
> >
> >So when they said that the Waja is a good car so what that tells you?
> >FYI, I have drive them around to Genting and PD. So it is not just a
> >short drive in the neighbourhood.
>
> this good car thing is subjective. if you need a wheel from A to B
> with air con and decent shocks , then it is good enough.
>
> if you own another car like a jap or a continental or a korean and
> then you compare it against a proton - then the good becomes
> variable...
>
> a jap car is better than a proton but it is expensive..
My brother had bought a new Honda Accord last year and I have notice
that the plastic part for its passenger door cover is a bit loose
after just owning the car for 6 months. You can notice it shaking when
it is on the road. So I did ask him what happened to it and why he
didn't get it replace since I assume it is still under warranty. His
stared at me and give me a look that that is not a good question to
ask. Nevertheless, I didn't ask him again about it. So what does that
tells you? Just a very unlucky chap with his Honda?
This is actually what I have been suspecting all the while. Most
Malaysian who owned expensive cars or foreign cars would rather keep
quite about their problem isntead of highlighting it out. Probably out
of embarassment. God knows?
But when it comes to Proton everybody would love to bash it since it
is a Malaysian made. This is the kind of mentality which we should
have to think seriously if we want to survive in the more competing
world.
> but in reality it is not and we pay more for imported cars to protect
> proton market...for 20 years already..
>
> time to change this - then in an open market let's see if proton car
> is as popular as it is because it is a good car. it definitely didn't
> do so in the international market and i think the same will happen
> likewise in malaysia.
I think it didn't do well in the international market probably due to
other factors that buyers have to consider before buying the car like
I have mentioned it earlier (the maintenance cost etc) which certainly
won't go down until the sales volume started to increase for that
market. No matter how good or cheap the car, I would certainly will
factor in the cost of its maintenace in the long run before I buy it.
Lastly I am trying to tell you guys who is very 'anti-proton' is that
based from my experience, I believed Proton QC did improve a lot
compared to its earlier version. Of cause technology wise, they still
need to improve a lot when other car manufacturers has already come
out with gadget that can make their car park on their own, head up
display etc.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Stephen Lim
>Actually I compared Waja & Satria because I have owned both cars
>before. What I can say is that their QC did improve a lot.
magoo you are much easily satisfied.
>Depend which Korean car you are trying to compare it with Proton. You
>are not comparing Waja with a Sonata aren't you? :)
how about hyundai getz? :)
>
>I am. My power window on the driver's side last only 2 years for my
>Waja. But again, that is more than what I would expect from my
>ex-Satria. Which last only for about 6 months. Since we are talking
>about power window, let me tell you of my experience with one of my
>client who just bought a new Merc C200 compressor. I found it rather
>amuse to see him opening up his door whenever he want to pay aparking
>ticket. Of cause I didn't ask him about it knowing that it might be
>suicidal for my business relationship with him. So why not you come
>out with your own conclusion why he did that? Probably because of his
>bad experience with Oroton before? There is a possibility there. But
>don't discount on other possibility. Ok? :)
the merc - you need to check if it is a local unit or a CBU unit. The
local merc has some quality problem. (information coming from a friend
who owned both a local and a CBU unit). But to be fair magoo..just
because one make has a problem with the unit hence it is acceptable
for waja to have one too.
my french cars power window has no problem - 7 years day in day out
toll window operation every working days.. and still going on well.
>FYI, I have also had some experience with Wira (owned by my parent)
>and I would say Waja quality win hands down easily. But bare in mind
>that my experience with Wira is not as extensively as with Satria &
>Waja. As such, I couldn't draw a conclusion on its quality.
i had a wira once. Then my had one too. I sold the two off as soon as
i could.
>My parent also owned a Merc and I can tell you that its maintenance
>cost can easily cover 4 times of the maintenance cost for my Waja.
magoo...what kind of conclusion do you want us to form? that the waja
parts are just as good for 4 times a price of the merc? and this
maintenance ...are you talking about new merc vis a vis against a new
waja?
>Nope. They knew about it long time ago. In fact most of my friends has
>been here couple of times even before we are friends and they weren't
>impressed with my Satria. (FYI, I just sold off that car couple of
>months back) :)
tell them, this is a mistubishi rebadge. maybe they can find it in
australia too. oh yes some 10 years ago! :)
what are they impressed actually about magoo? that malaysia makes a
decent car? that it seems and looks decent? what cars do they drive in
australia by the way? a holden? a ford? why not consider a proton the
next time around?
>Some Korean cars are sucks too. I wouldn't think of buying Korean cars
>like Kia Sephia or Spectra even if the price go down to 50k or sam
>price as Waja. Look carefully when a mechanic open up their door cover
>(perhaps when the owner send in their car for tinted film) you will
>know what I meant. Waja quality is much more better if not superior
>than both cars. I bet its body is much more stronger than these 2
>Korean cars.
yes waja body is "superior" to counter the many complaints (including
me) of the previous wira body. macam tin milo we used to comment. try
not to let the football hit it, it will be dented.
maybe you should also check out waja (or impian as they call it
overseas) crash test results against other makes..
>
>To be frank, I had a friend (Malaysian of cause) who regretted buying
>Kia Sephia. He told me he should have buy Waja instead after I drive
>him around in that car. This has happened 2 years back when I first
>got that car.
sephia was really a car against the wira. in that situation, it was a
better buy against the wira until some mysterious forces "call" in the
distributor and ask them to adjust the prices "higher" than proton.
>Yes. I have seen them. Pretty innovative I would say. No wonder Arena
>is getting pretty famous over there. But actually, I think any SUV
>vehicles would have a much better slice of the car market over there
>considering many Australians prefer that kind of car.
actually no, there are SUV or 4 wheeler off roader..the arena or
jumbrok happens to fit that small niche in that market.
but it is only a small percentage (very very very small) of that
market in australia.
>Probably.
>
>Have you ever wonder how well the market going to response if it is
>actually proton who did manufacture the new honda city (which I would
>rate it at slightly better look than Juara)? :)
i think honda city looks like a joke. but that aside, i am happy for
that element of competition which has been prevented by trying to
protect proton.
but the toyota is a different matter then..and hyundai getz (the 1.6
is blocked at the port, you can go speculate why) and the daewoo /GM
is also in..so in reality you can buy these cars cheaper if not for
that "protection"
>My brother had bought a new Honda Accord last year and I have notice
>that the plastic part for its passenger door cover is a bit loose
>after just owning the car for 6 months. You can notice it shaking when
>it is on the road. So I did ask him what happened to it and why he
>didn't get it replace since I assume it is still under warranty. His
>stared at me and give me a look that that is not a good question to
>ask. Nevertheless, I didn't ask him again about it. So what does that
>tells you? Just a very unlucky chap with his Honda?
if you want to pick on small things like this magoo..why not extend
this to all hondas and vis a vis against the waja...
i mean i am not going to use one single example to point out a picture
for you here..i said go check out the proton waja owners complaint and
their user group and how they bring up issues to proton etc etc..
and then compare with the honda group.
>This is actually what I have been suspecting all the while. Most
>Malaysian who owned expensive cars or foreign cars would rather keep
>quite about their problem isntead of highlighting it out. Probably out
>of embarassment. God knows?
no actual fact is...certain year certain makes are a dud/lemon. no
secret about it. but you ask yourself ..why do people still go and buy
these more expensive cars and why their sales figures are increasing
and proton is not. i mean figures speak.
>But when it comes to Proton everybody would love to bash it since it
>is a Malaysian made. This is the kind of mentality which we should
>have to think seriously if we want to survive in the more competing
>world.
first if proton is good, people will buy and they won't have any
interest in bashing them. you are being defensive for the wrong
reasons.
secondly the CEO has asked for another 20 years of protection.
something doesn't add up here.
thirdly, we all would like to buy cars which is more affordable and
not so expensive like this to support an industry which we hope is now
ready to take on the world market and ramp up some volume
and then we end up accused by folks like you for malaysian made
bashing.
you missed the point magoo. and you do not see the forest for the
trees here.
>I think it didn't do well in the international market probably due to
>other factors that buyers have to consider before buying the car like
>I have mentioned it earlier (the maintenance cost etc) which certainly
>won't go down until the sales volume started to increase for that
>market. No matter how good or cheap the car, I would certainly will
>factor in the cost of its maintenace in the long run before I buy it.
magoo...how do you substanciate statement like this ...if the koreans,
the japs and others can do it..why not us?
we will be like the ambassodor in india for sure going on in this
direction. still trying to sell 20 year old model but with new garang
interior, flashy ah beng spoilers and so on.
>Lastly I am trying to tell you guys who is very 'anti-proton' is that
>based from my experience, I believed Proton QC did improve a lot
>compared to its earlier version. Of cause technology wise, they still
>need to improve a lot when other car manufacturers has already come
>out with gadget that can make their car park on their own, head up
>display etc.
magoo i owned two protons before. and i got fed up and i don't want to
support them. likewise for not flying MAS.
you want to make sure you pay for something which is value for money.
you can continue to support proton with your hard earned money for
patriotic reasons. but the writing is on the wall.
Dave Baker
>you want to make sure you pay for something which is value for money.
>you can continue to support proton with your hard earned money for
>patriotic reasons. but the writing is on the wall.
Did anyone else read a quote from the AAM (MAA?) boss in the paper saying
that Malaysia has the THIRD highest car prices in the world?!!!
My question is - WHY? There is no logical excuse for this, apart from trying
to protect the local car industry, at the expense of ALL our wallets.
I'd be interested if anyone knew where to find the statistics to back up this
statement, as I'd like to see if it is absolute prices, or compared to
average wages, etc.
Dave
Reader
>
> Did anyone else read a quote from the AAM (MAA?) boss in the paper saying
> that Malaysia has the THIRD highest car prices in the world?!!!
>
Wow! Is that true? I hope that Malaysia is not going for the World Record.
> My question is - WHY? There is no logical excuse for this, apart from trying
> to protect the local car industry, at the expense of ALL our wallets.
>
An organisation is like a living thing. If not stressed, it will become
weak. Continuing to protect the "National Car" Industry will only let it
be weak.
> I'd be interested if anyone knew where to find the statistics to back up this
> statement, as I'd like to see if it is absolute prices, or compared to
> average wages, etc.
>
> Dave
Thanks Dave, for the info. I think many people do not know about
Malaysia being No. 3 in world car prices... and prices are expected to
go still going higher!!!
Dave Baker
>Dave Baker wrote:
>> Did anyone else read a quote from the AAM (MAA?) boss in the paper saying
>> that Malaysia has the THIRD highest car prices in the world?!!!
>Wow! Is that true? I hope that Malaysia is not going for the World Record.
Darn, I think I deleted the post. It was in Uncle Yap's daily bmalaysia news,
but it was posted by his partner who doesn't post them to this newsgroup.
Uncle Yap - you have a copy archived? I think it was yesterday or Saturday. I
was pretty stunned to read that statement myself.
Dave
Yap Yok Foo
wrote:
>Darn, I think I deleted the post. It was in Uncle Yap's daily bmalaysia news,
>but it was posted by his partner who doesn't post them to this newsgroup.
>Uncle Yap - you have a copy archived? I think it was yesterday or Saturday. I
>was pretty stunned to read that statement myself.
Here you are, courtesy of beritamalaysia :
http://news.catcha.com/my/content.phtml?1&010&&afpnews.cgi
&cat=malaysia&story=040111102250.dymf8z9y.txt
Malaysians urged by car makers to buy before expected price hike
KUALA LUMPUR, Jan 11 (AFP) - Vehicle prices in Malaysia are expected
to rise because of new motor tariffs, Trade Minister Rafidah Aziz said
Sunday.
Malaysia, which is Southeast Asia's largest car market, has brought in
a complex new tax structure that has seen some import tariffs cut but
introduced excise duty, traditionally reserved for local products, for
all imported cars.
Rafidah was quoted by the national Bernama news agency as saying that
prices were likely to increase but said manufacturers could still cut
prices if they were willing to reduce profit margins.
The Malaysian Automotive Association (MAA) president Aishah Ahmad was
quoted as saying by the Malay-language Berita Minggu that car
manufacturers were still calculating costs.
But vehicle prices are expected to increase because the benefits of
lower import duty will be offset by the excise duties and the stronger
yen and euro, eating into motor companies' profit margins, she said.
"From our initial analysis, prices are expected to increase," she told
the newspaper.
"Many consumers have expressed their disappointment and they should
rightly feel so because car prices in Malaysia are not only the
highest among regional countries but the third highest in the world,"
she said.
She said prices for four-wheel drive models were likely to go up
significantly and urged consumers to buy before the price hikes.
The Sunday Mail said cars below 1,800cc may now cost two to three
percent more, while prices for bigger models may increase by as much
as 10 to 15 percent.
The new tax structure is part of Malaysia's plan to liberalise the
auto sector under the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)
Free Trade Area (AFTA), where import tariffs for most products in the
region were cut to below five percent over the last year.
Malaysia obtained a two-year reprieve for its auto industry until 2005
but it also said it would defer reducing duties until 2008, a move
analysts said reflected deep-seated concerns over the survival of the
local car industry.
*************From Uncle Yap**************
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David A. Allan
<snip>
> "Many consumers have expressed their disappointment and they should
> rightly feel so because car prices in Malaysia are not only the
> highest among regional countries but the third highest in the world,"
> she said.
(1) Singapore
(2) ?
(3) Malaysia
Can anyone fill the blank?
David
Nobody
>On 11 Jan 2004 19:49:41 -0800, sh...@usa.com (Mr_Magoo) wrote:
>
>
>what are they impressed actually about magoo? that malaysia makes a
>decent car? that it seems and looks decent? what cars do they drive in
>australia by the way? a holden? a ford? why not consider a proton the
>next time around?
>
Proton is pushing for mkt share in Australia, but is a minor player
They have the Satria with the Lotus suspension here in Australia and
reports I hear are fairly positive although I have not tested one out yet.
Yes, the Fords and the Holdens are big sellers here, although Toyota
also makes a mark regularly in the charts.
>actually no, there are SUV or 4 wheeler off roader..the arena or
>jumbrok happens to fit that small niche in that market.
>
>but it is only a small percentage (very very very small) of that
>market in australia.
>
Have not seen any advertising here in Australia for the Arena or the
Jumbuk, or whatever it is called, but then considering the Proton mkt
share this is not surprising.
>>Lastly I am trying to tell you guys who is very 'anti-proton' is that
>>based from my experience, I believed Proton QC did improve a lot
>>compared to its earlier version. Of cause technology wise, they still
>>need to improve a lot when other car manufacturers has already come
>>out with gadget that can make their car park on their own, head up
>>display etc.
>>
>>
>
>magoo i owned two protons before. and i got fed up and i don't want to
>support them. likewise for not flying MAS.
>
>you want to make sure you pay for something which is value for money.
>you can continue to support proton with your hard earned money for
>patriotic reasons. but the writing is on the wall.
>
I do hope that Proton will continue to improve their products, a la
Hyundai, and not go bellyup.
The best thing I reckon Proton have done is to sponsor(?) Karamjit
Singh. I am confident that Mr Singh will be able to convey useful
information back to the R & D people at Proton. Hopefully, the R & D
folks at Proton will pay heed to some of his suggestions.
Oh, btw, tariff protection for the auto industry is well and good in the
national interest but is really no substitute for real improvement in
the product offering. Proton has the skills and resources to come up
with a good product so there is no real reason why it cannot be done.
jay
my guess would be one of those scandahoovian countries.
mn
+++
"jay" <j...@lake.com> wrote in message
news:pbg5001rbjrfqpock...@4ax.com...
...
> my guess would be one of those scandahoovian countries.
...
ck_in_sf1
CKSF
David A. Allan
> my guess would be one of those scandahoovian countries.
Nope, not Scandinavian countries. (The UK has some of the most expensive
cars in Europe, surprisingly enough - yet they're still a lot cheaper than
Malaysia.)
David
Mr_Magoo
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:36:22 +0800, Stephen Lim <ker...@deadspam.com> wrote:
>
> >you want to make sure you pay for something which is value for money.
> >you can continue to support proton with your hard earned money for
> >patriotic reasons. but the writing is on the wall.
>
> Did anyone else read a quote from the AAM (MAA?) boss in the paper saying
> that Malaysia has the THIRD highest car prices in the world?!!!
>
> My question is - WHY? There is no logical excuse for this, apart from trying
> to protect the local car industry, at the expense of ALL our wallets.
I think I have already answer that question when I replied to Stephen.
I believed we are paying higher price for car not just to protect
local car industries but also to give more money to our government, so
that they can continue buying Sukhoi, airbus or even sending in a
cosmonout at a much higher cost then the market price. This additional
cost we all have to bear as long as we continue tolerating corruption
in this government. What to do. We all prefer to work with the devil
that we know. :)
> I'd be interested if anyone knew where to find the statistics to back up this
> statement, as I'd like to see if it is absolute prices, or compared to
> average wages, etc.
>
Yes. I would also love to see it.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Mr_Magoo
> On 11 Jan 2004 19:49:41 -0800, sh...@usa.com (Mr_Magoo) wrote:
>
>
> >Actually I compared Waja & Satria because I have owned both cars
> >before. What I can say is that their QC did improve a lot.
>
> magoo you are much easily satisfied.
Not in all area I think :)
> >Depend which Korean car you are trying to compare it with Proton. You
> >are not comparing Waja with a Sonata aren't you? :)
>
> how about hyundai getz? :)
Are you sure you are comparing an apple with an apple?
> >I am. My power window on the driver's side last only 2 years for my
> >Waja. But again, that is more than what I would expect from my
> >ex-Satria. Which last only for about 6 months. Since we are talking
> >about power window, let me tell you of my experience with one of my
> >client who just bought a new Merc C200 compressor. I found it rather
> >amuse to see him opening up his door whenever he want to pay aparking
> >ticket. Of cause I didn't ask him about it knowing that it might be
> >suicidal for my business relationship with him. So why not you come
> >out with your own conclusion why he did that? Probably because of his
> >bad experience with Oroton before? There is a possibility there. But
> >don't discount on other possibility. Ok? :)
>
> the merc - you need to check if it is a local unit or a CBU unit. The
> local merc has some quality problem. (information coming from a friend
Here we go again. This is what I have been trying to highlight all
this while. We Malaysian in general, seems to have this kind of
mentality if it is local then it is sucks.
> who owned both a local and a CBU unit). But to be fair magoo..just
> because one make has a problem with the unit hence it is acceptable
> for waja to have one too.
>
> my french cars power window has no problem - 7 years day in day out
> toll window operation every working days.. and still going on well.
>
> >FYI, I have also had some experience with Wira (owned by my parent)
> >and I would say Waja quality win hands down easily. But bare in mind
> >that my experience with Wira is not as extensively as with Satria &
> >Waja. As such, I couldn't draw a conclusion on its quality.
>
> i had a wira once. Then my had one too. I sold the two off as soon as
> i could.
>
> >My parent also owned a Merc and I can tell you that its maintenance
> >cost can easily cover 4 times of the maintenance cost for my Waja.
>
> magoo...what kind of conclusion do you want us to form? that the waja
> parts are just as good for 4 times a price of the merc? and this
> maintenance ...are you talking about new merc vis a vis against a new
> waja?
I was trying to show you that it is not just about the car price which
I would take into consideration before buying. The maintenace cost is
also pretty much going to affect my decision.
> >Nope. They knew about it long time ago. In fact most of my friends has
> >been here couple of times even before we are friends and they weren't
> >impressed with my Satria. (FYI, I just sold off that car couple of
> >months back) :)
>
> tell them, this is a mistubishi rebadge. maybe they can find it in
> australia too. oh yes some 10 years ago! :)
Yes. They knew it. :)
> what are they impressed actually about magoo? that malaysia makes a
Probably they are impressed that Proton has managed to come out with
their own design and with decent quality? God knows.
> decent car? that it seems and looks decent? what cars do they drive in
> australia by the way? a holden? a ford? why not consider a proton the
> next time around?
One of them drive Holden, another drive Mitsubishi 4wd.
Where I worked before it is not easy to find Proton dealers. That is
something Proton will have to look into. They need to brush up their
marketing strategy etc.
> >Some Korean cars are sucks too. I wouldn't think of buying Korean cars
> >like Kia Sephia or Spectra even if the price go down to 50k or sam
> >price as Waja. Look carefully when a mechanic open up their door cover
> >(perhaps when the owner send in their car for tinted film) you will
> >know what I meant. Waja quality is much more better if not superior
> >than both cars. I bet its body is much more stronger than these 2
> >Korean cars.
>
> yes waja body is "superior" to counter the many complaints (including
> me) of the previous wira body. macam tin milo we used to comment. try
> not to let the football hit it, it will be dented.
Good. This is what I would like more Malaysian will do in future. We
give them credits whenever you have seen them improved in that area
and cursed them in the other area where they didn't. Like I said,
Their QC has improve a lot in Waja (compared to earlier version). But
Proton R&D will surely need to do more homework to come out with a
better gadget like head up display, collision sensor, a technology
that will neable their car to park on its own etc.
> maybe you should also check out waja (or impian as they call it
> overseas) crash test results against other makes..
Yes. I think I have seen it somewhere and Waja is not doing that bad
in that area.
I am not sure about Getz. But I believed I did see it on the road
couple of time. Surely not my type of car, since I prefer a sedan with
big car boot. Since my kids stuff will occupy 1/2 of the boot whenever
we want to go back to our hometown. :)
> >My brother had bought a new Honda Accord last year and I have notice
> >that the plastic part for its passenger door cover is a bit loose
> >after just owning the car for 6 months. You can notice it shaking when
> >it is on the road. So I did ask him what happened to it and why he
> >didn't get it replace since I assume it is still under warranty. His
> >stared at me and give me a look that that is not a good question to
> >ask. Nevertheless, I didn't ask him again about it. So what does that
> >tells you? Just a very unlucky chap with his Honda?
>
> if you want to pick on small things like this magoo..why not extend
> this to all hondas and vis a vis against the waja...
What I am trying to highlight here is attitude among Malaysian. We
don't mind been screwed by foreigners but when it is a local brand, we
tend to expect it to work perfectly.
> i mean i am not going to use one single example to point out a picture
> for you here..i said go check out the proton waja owners complaint and
> their user group and how they bring up issues to proton etc etc..
>
> and then compare with the honda group.
>
> >This is actually what I have been suspecting all the while. Most
> >Malaysian who owned expensive cars or foreign cars would rather keep
> >quite about their problem isntead of highlighting it out. Probably out
> >of embarassment. God knows?
>
> no actual fact is...certain year certain makes are a dud/lemon. no
> secret about it. but you ask yourself ..why do people still go and buy
> these more expensive cars and why their sales figures are increasing
> and proton is not. i mean figures speak.
It is mentality problem I would say.
> >But when it comes to Proton everybody would love to bash it since it
> >is a Malaysian made. This is the kind of mentality which we should
> >have to think seriously if we want to survive in the more competing
> >world.
>
> first if proton is good, people will buy and they won't have any
> interest in bashing them. you are being defensive for the wrong
> reasons.
I am not being defensive ler. I just trying to tell you guys to be
fair to Proton. If you see improvement in them then praise them or if
you see in an area where they are slack then highlight it out in a
constructive manner so that they can improve. Like the example I have
given to you earlier don't be like my friend who shun off Proton
completely and bought Sephia instead and later regret it when he has
test drive my car.
> secondly the CEO has asked for another 20 years of protection.
> something doesn't add up here.
That one is suck. The CEO should asked the government to allow Proton
to team up with big player instead.
> thirdly, we all would like to buy cars which is more affordable and
> not so expensive like this to support an industry which we hope is now
> ready to take on the world market and ramp up some volume
Dream on Stephen. I don't see how car prices will go down drastically
overnight. It is going to be disaster not just for car industry (like
the 2nd hand car dealers) here but also for other industry like
banking industry, insurance etc. Coz we don't want those people who
has bought their car earlier simply default their car loan and go for
a cheaper car instead. Furthermore the higher price we are paying for
cars is because we need to subsidized inefficent in our government.
This is indirect cost we all have to bear.
> and then we end up accused by folks like you for malaysian made
> bashing.
>
> you missed the point magoo. and you do not see the forest for the
> trees here.
>
> >I think it didn't do well in the international market probably due to
> >other factors that buyers have to consider before buying the car like
> >I have mentioned it earlier (the maintenance cost etc) which certainly
> >won't go down until the sales volume started to increase for that
> >market. No matter how good or cheap the car, I would certainly will
> >factor in the cost of its maintenace in the long run before I buy it.
>
> magoo...how do you substanciate statement like this ...if the koreans,
> the japs and others can do it..why not us?
The Korean cars are cheaper oversea because their domestic market is
subsidizing them. That is how they managed to do it. So this is a
totally different area. It is no longer entirely about QC or building
a good car. It is about using the right marketing strategy etc. For
example provide longer free maintenance etc.
> we will be like the ambassodor in india for sure going on in this
> direction. still trying to sell 20 year old model but with new garang
> interior, flashy ah beng spoilers and so on.
Of cause, Proton need to come out with new model and just dump all
those old models like Iswara completely.
> >Lastly I am trying to tell you guys who is very 'anti-proton' is that
> >based from my experience, I believed Proton QC did improve a lot
> >compared to its earlier version. Of cause technology wise, they still
> >need to improve a lot when other car manufacturers has already come
> >out with gadget that can make their car park on their own, head up
> >display etc.
>
> magoo i owned two protons before. and i got fed up and i don't want to
> support them. likewise for not flying MAS.
Up to you. It is your money. What I am trying to say here is do not
streotype thing just because you had bad experience before. They might
have improve. Just go on for a test drive first and do not discard
them completely.
> you want to make sure you pay for something which is value for money.
> you can continue to support proton with your hard earned money for
> patriotic reasons. but the writing is on the wall.
Not because of patriotic reason ler. I not a govt supporter and by
their definition, I am an unpatriotic citizen. :)
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Mr_Magoo
> Stephen Lim wrote:
>
> >On 11 Jan 2004 19:49:41 -0800, sh...@usa.com (Mr_Magoo) wrote:
> >
> >
> >what are they impressed actually about magoo? that malaysia makes a
> >decent car? that it seems and looks decent? what cars do they drive in
> >australia by the way? a holden? a ford? why not consider a proton the
> >next time around?
> >
> Proton is pushing for mkt share in Australia, but is a minor player
I am aware about it. I think yesterday news said something like proton
sales in Australia increased by 60% (something like that) compared to
last year. But they didn't give any figure for it. So it might be
increase from 10 cars to 16? :)
> They have the Satria with the Lotus suspension here in Australia and
> reports I hear are fairly positive although I have not tested one out yet.
My friend test drive it in Australia too and pretty impressed with it.
But the price really turn him down.
> Yes, the Fords and the Holdens are big sellers here, although Toyota
> also makes a mark regularly in the charts.
>
> >actually no, there are SUV or 4 wheeler off roader..the arena or
> >jumbrok happens to fit that small niche in that market.
> >
> >but it is only a small percentage (very very very small) of that
> >market in australia.
> >
> Have not seen any advertising here in Australia for the Arena or the
> Jumbuk, or whatever it is called, but then considering the Proton mkt
> share this is not surprising.
>
> >>Lastly I am trying to tell you guys who is very 'anti-proton' is that
> >>based from my experience, I believed Proton QC did improve a lot
> >>compared to its earlier version. Of cause technology wise, they still
> >>need to improve a lot when other car manufacturers has already come
> >>out with gadget that can make their car park on their own, head up
> >>display etc.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >magoo i owned two protons before. and i got fed up and i don't want to
> >support them. likewise for not flying MAS.
> >
> >you want to make sure you pay for something which is value for money.
> >you can continue to support proton with your hard earned money for
> >patriotic reasons. but the writing is on the wall.
> >
> I do hope that Proton will continue to improve their products, a la
> Hyundai, and not go bellyup.
Yes. That is what I believed they are doing. Although some people
might say it that it is a little too late.
> The best thing I reckon Proton have done is to sponsor(?) Karamjit
> Singh. I am confident that Mr Singh will be able to convey useful
> information back to the R & D people at Proton. Hopefully, the R & D
> folks at Proton will pay heed to some of his suggestions.
Yes. Their R&D will surely need to work extra hours to catch up with
other players in term of technology.
> Oh, btw, tariff protection for the auto industry is well and good in the
> national interest but is really no substitute for real improvement in
> the product offering. Proton has the skills and resources to come up
> with a good product so there is no real reason why it cannot be done.
I reckoned that too. They just need less government inteference. Give
them more powerto decide for themselves or if they think they need to
partner up with anyone etc.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
tru...@notrashmagix.com.sg
wrote:
>
>Wow! Is that true? I hope that Malaysia is not going for the World Record.
That will never happen. Singapore will always want to be number 1.
SIAOGU
The husband is the head of the house. The wife is the neck. And the neck turns the head.
Madman's Diary
jay
the last time i was in norway, the going price of a 30 year old
caddilac was around $30k, and the brand new corvette, which costs
around 40k in the us, was going for around 100k. friends of mine told
me that the taxes for imported cars was around 100%.
i would also look at finland. was chatting to a guy there who paid
160k for a car that sells for around 75k here.
i really don't think uk is that bad.
Stephen Lim
>Not in all area I think :)
good we are getting somewhere then.
>Are you sure you are comparing an apple with an apple?
not an apple with an apple for sure..but it falls into the same engine
size - ie competitors in the same categories. The Getz is a hatchback.
>
>Here we go again. This is what I have been trying to highlight all
>this while. We Malaysian in general, seems to have this kind of
>mentality if it is local then it is sucks.
if you think that the standards for assembly here in malaysia is the
same as in germany/japan, of course we have no issue then.
so do you think the standards are the same for QC and so on?
>I was trying to show you that it is not just about the car price which
>I would take into consideration before buying. The maintenace cost is
>also pretty much going to affect my decision.
of course. but you have not explained if we are comparing two new
cars...and then if the lifespans of the parts are the same ie one last
6 years, the other 2 years and so on. Otherwise the comparison will
not be clear on the overall picture.
>Probably they are impressed that Proton has managed to come out with
>their own design and with decent quality? God knows.
>
you should find out magoo. i hope it is not, gosh you guys can
actually built a car kind of admiration...
>One of them drive Holden, another drive Mitsubishi 4wd.
>
>Where I worked before it is not easy to find Proton dealers. That is
>something Proton will have to look into. They need to brush up their
>marketing strategy etc.
of course and also that bmw thingee..non stop ribbing on that since
then..
>Good. This is what I would like more Malaysian will do in future. We
>give them credits whenever you have seen them improved in that area
>and cursed them in the other area where they didn't. Like I said,
>Their QC has improve a lot in Waja (compared to earlier version). But
>Proton R&D will surely need to do more homework to come out with a
>better gadget like head up display, collision sensor, a technology
>that will neable their car to park on its own etc.
just make a decent car which can sell in any country first. the rest
will come if they are up there with the big boys at the forefront..now
they have yet to play catch up.
>Yes. I think I have seen it somewhere and Waja is not doing that bad
>in that area.
>
to give some proper input for you, please refer to the euroncap report
on proton waja or impian overseas..
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=116
i am sure this is what you mean by not too bad.
oh by the way, those safety features like airbags, prebelt tensioners
(not sure about this) are not included in the local package. The one
above is the export model and if you can get one, it will be better
than the one for local consumption.
>I am not sure about Getz. But I believed I did see it on the road
>couple of time. Surely not my type of car, since I prefer a sedan with
>big car boot. Since my kids stuff will occupy 1/2 of the boot whenever
>we want to go back to our hometown. :)
i wonder if the distributors can bring in a direct competition car to
the waja in this engine size category beside going the indirect way of
the hatchbacks.. but this is another issue lah.
>What I am trying to highlight here is attitude among Malaysian. We
>don't mind been screwed by foreigners but when it is a local brand, we
>tend to expect it to work perfectly.
no i think you misunderstood...people here WILL mind if they get
screwed by both local and overseas car manufacturer. Hence they still
talk about the reliability of the toyotas, the engines of the
hondas..the performance of the germans, the flair of the french..the
passion of the italians etc etc..all long established car makers..and
there is a reason for this - they do make good cars and if for some
reasons , this is not seen, the sales will go down.
>It is mentality problem I would say.
unfortunately no. i disagree with you.
>I am not being defensive ler. I just trying to tell you guys to be
>fair to Proton. If you see improvement in them then praise them or if
>you see in an area where they are slack then highlight it out in a
>constructive manner so that they can improve. Like the example I have
>given to you earlier don't be like my friend who shun off Proton
>completely and bought Sephia instead and later regret it when he has
>test drive my car.
people actually were lenient with proton. which is why i ask you to go
check out the forums on proton. then see how they were treated or how
the problems were addressed ..har biasalah tu..kan ini proton.
whether this is intentional or not..it sounded the death knell.
>That one is suck. The CEO should asked the government to allow Proton
>to team up with big player instead.
wake up magoo..hello!!!
this one doesn't suck..it is the mentality inside that company which
is why people are pissed off with them. otherwise we won't be having
this debate and we will be enjoying our protons which is sold
worldwide.
anyway you can get yourself up and happy once the WRM is revealed this
tomorrow. will we see the new engine campro? i hear the chop shop
fellas are hedging or betting rather that the engine will fail and
have stock up mitsubishi replacement engines for the new WRM.
we shall see.
>Dream on Stephen. I don't see how car prices will go down drastically
>overnight. It is going to be disaster not just for car industry (like
>the 2nd hand car dealers) here but also for other industry like
>banking industry, insurance etc. Coz we don't want those people who
>has bought their car earlier simply default their car loan and go for
>a cheaper car instead. Furthermore the higher price we are paying for
>cars is because we need to subsidized inefficent in our government.
>This is indirect cost we all have to bear.
you are right magoo. but more on this is the fact the delay in
ractifying the tarrifs was to give proton more time ...and we now know
we need another 20 years so this gives you a clear idea where this
company stand in world competition..
20 years..it will find the gap is even wider as car manufacturers
worldwide move to new technology (hybrids etc).
>The Korean cars are cheaper oversea because their domestic market is
>subsidizing them. That is how they managed to do it. So this is a
>totally different area. It is no longer entirely about QC or building
>a good car. It is about using the right marketing strategy etc. For
>example provide longer free maintenance etc.
the koreans are selling everywhere by storm magoo..from in vietnam to
sri lanka ...with that volume, they will be a real serious player in
the future...
and that means one day they can come into malaysia with a cheaper car
even with proton having all the protection (like sephia for eg)
>Of cause, Proton need to come out with new model and just dump all
>those old models like Iswara completely.
they can't yet..because they have so many redundant stocks in the
warehouse..just drive around klang valley and you can see those "open
warehouse"...they will have to keep rolling up new campaign with new
dashboard..flashy dials and god know what else...rear wings..ah beng
lights etc etc just to get rid of them.
>Up to you. It is your money. What I am trying to say here is do not
>streotype thing just because you had bad experience before. They might
>have improve. Just go on for a test drive first and do not discard
>them completely.
i did test drive. i have friends and colleagues who own the waja. it
can never come close to the french car for handling.. :)
>Not because of patriotic reason ler. I not a govt supporter and by
>their definition, I am an unpatriotic citizen. :)
it;s your money ...
Stephen Lim
>I am aware about it. I think yesterday news said something like proton
>sales in Australia increased by 60% (something like that) compared to
>last year. But they didn't give any figure for it. So it might be
>increase from 10 cars to 16? :)
i am glad you are a bit sceptical magoo.
in 2002, 909,000 vehicles were sold in australia, an increase of
85,500 units or 10.5 % from the year 2002.
all in all, proton sold 1,500 cars among the 909,000 vehicles in
australia in 2003.
you go do the maths how much is that in terms of market share.
>My friend test drive it in Australia too and pretty impressed with it.
>But the price really turn him down.
yeah it is priced above even the japs...
>Yes. That is what I believed they are doing. Although some people
>might say it that it is a little too late.
actually it is more like a leopard cannot change its spots..
>
>> The best thing I reckon Proton have done is to sponsor(?) Karamjit
>> Singh. I am confident that Mr Singh will be able to convey useful
>> information back to the R & D people at Proton. Hopefully, the R & D
>> folks at Proton will pay heed to some of his suggestions.
>
>Yes. Their R&D will surely need to work extra hours to catch up with
>other players in term of technology.
do you guys know Karamjit car is actually a mitsubishi evo 6 chasis
with a waja body? they send it down to australia or england(?) to do
the "convert". and the engine is of course an evo 5 engine.
can't use the waja for sure and can't do this in malaysia also (no
expertise). There's nothing to convey to the R&D in proton because
nothing inside that car actually comes from them or that they can work
on it...
>I reckoned that too. They just need less government inteference. Give
>them more powerto decide for themselves or if they think they need to
>partner up with anyone etc.
>
yeah please do it quickly...go let someone buy in and kick out those
hopeless people inside. do a proper restructing and revamp the whole
culture and mentality inside there..
Stephen Lim
>On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:02:13 +0800, Reader <ab2yx...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Wow! Is that true? I hope that Malaysia is not going for the World Record.
>
>That will never happen. Singapore will always want to be number 1.
>
yah you are right siaogu..they are damn kiasu one..this also want to
win
Mr_Magoo
> What a Proton apologist
That is all you can come out with? Hehehe...
> "Mr_Magoo" <sh...@usa.com>
>
>
> I am riding my motorbike and bicyle till 2008.
Good for you. You can go on and ride a camel if you want for all I care.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
tru...@notrashmagix.com.sg
<d...@REMOVETHISstreamyx.com> wrote:
>
>"Yap Yok Foo" <yfy...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
>(1) Singapore
>(2) ?
>(3) Malaysia
>
Japan?
>Can anyone fill the blank?
>
>David
>
SIAOGU
Dave Baker
>On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:57:28 +0800, "David A. Allan"
><d...@REMOVETHISstreamyx.com> wrote:
>>"Yap Yok Foo" <yfy...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
>>(1) Singapore
>>(2) ?
>>(3) Malaysia
>Japan?
No, plenty cheaper than Malaysia. Even BMW & Merc are cheaper than here.
2nd hand cars are almost given away, and are in beautiful condition.
Dave
Stephen Lim
wrote:
>No, plenty cheaper than Malaysia. Even BMW & Merc are cheaper than here.
>
>2nd hand cars are almost given away, and are in beautiful condition.
>
>Dave
most of my spare parts are from these 2nd hand cars in japan when they
scrap it.. :)
David A. Allan
<tru...@notrashmagix.com.sg> wrote in message
news:9ag7009fqp2pf80su...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:57:28 +0800, "David A. Allan"
> Japan?
Nope - I used to live in Japan and cars are relatively cheap there - about
the same price as in EU.
David
Nobody
>Nobody <nob...@n.o.w.h.e.r.e> wrote in message news:<6kxMb.8126$Wa....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
>
>
>>Stephen Lim wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>On 11 Jan 2004 19:49:41 -0800, sh...@usa.com (Mr_Magoo) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>what are they impressed actually about magoo? that malaysia makes a
>>>decent car? that it seems and looks decent? what cars do they drive in
>>>australia by the way? a holden? a ford? why not consider a proton the
>>>next time around?
>>>
>>>
>>Proton is pushing for mkt share in Australia, but is a minor player
>>
>>
>>I do hope that Proton will continue to improve their products, a la
>>Hyundai, and not go bellyup.
>>
>>
>
>Yes. That is what I believed they are doing. Although some people
>might say it that it is a little too late.
>
Never too late, mate :)
>>The best thing I reckon Proton have done is to sponsor(?) Karamjit
>>Singh. I am confident that Mr Singh will be able to convey useful
>>information back to the R & D people at Proton. Hopefully, the R & D
>>folks at Proton will pay heed to some of his suggestions.
>>
>>
>
>Yes. Their R&D will surely need to work extra hours to catch up with
>other players in term of technology.
>
Yeah, extra hours and extra funding always fixes most problems in cases
like these :)
>>Oh, btw, tariff protection for the auto industry is well and good in the
>>national interest but is really no substitute for real improvement in
>>the product offering. Proton has the skills and resources to come up
>>with a good product so there is no real reason why it cannot be done.
>>
>>
>
>I reckoned that too. They just need less government inteference. Give
>them more powerto decide for themselves or if they think they need to
>partner up with anyone etc.
>
Government involvement is best if the end result is a better car with
real export potential.
Of cos, if the involvement is only to protect the cushy jobs which some
Proton executives have got, than, well .... not so good.
Nobody
>On 12 Jan 2004 18:56:17 -0800, sh...@usa.com (Mr_Magoo) wrote:
>
>
>
>>>The best thing I reckon Proton have done is to sponsor(?) Karamjit
>>>Singh. I am confident that Mr Singh will be able to convey useful
>>>information back to the R & D people at Proton. Hopefully, the R & D
>>>folks at Proton will pay heed to some of his suggestions.
>>>
>>>
>>Yes. Their R&D will surely need to work extra hours to catch up with
>>other players in term of technology.
>>
>>
>
>do you guys know Karamjit car is actually a mitsubishi evo 6 chasis
>with a waja body? they send it down to australia or england(?) to do
>the "convert". and the engine is of course an evo 5 engine.
>
>can't use the waja for sure and can't do this in malaysia also (no
>expertise). There's nothing to convey to the R&D in proton because
>nothing inside that car actually comes from them or that they can work
>on it...
>
Hmm, thanks for that bit of info on the Karamjit car.
Well, it still has a Proton badge on the outside, so it counts as a
Proton :) I didn't really expect Mr Singh to be driving a *real* Proton
- he'd probably get around the track quicker if he caught the bus or a
taxi!!!
It would be a real shame if there was nothing to bring back to Proton R
& D to allow a better car to be built.
Golden Snake Gentleman
Mr_Magoo
> maggot is a proton apologist. he loves his proton and proton's pricing too.
Is that the best you can come out with?
You are a very pathetic idiot you know...
Mr Magoo