Mahatir spurs diplomatic incident
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
Sinclair) says:
>Mahatir is an isolated, idiosyncratic, autocratic, hyper-sensitive
>dickhead. He is committed to Malaysia's quaint brand of apartheid
Then, what are you? A smartass shithead puppy?
Malaysia's domestic policy (which u labelled as "apartheid") is our problem,
not yours and your ilks. The change will come soon....and it will be done
based on our (the Malaysians) judgements.
>and other forms of xenophobia (which manifest themselves in pointedly
>childish foreign policy). He wouldn't survive ten minutes in an open,
>confrontational, democratic political environment, like Australia's.
That childish foreign policy is the one that made Malaysia as one of the
fastest groing and developing countries in the world. Even your Kanggaroo
(Keating) can't do better than that. I don't think Mahathir can't survive
any confrontations in Australia. In fact, I am afraid that he might kick
your ass before you even know it.
>Mahatir's bizarre rantings about Keating (or is it Australia in general?)
>being like an unruly child who needs to be spanked - there's an example
>of someone with problems.
That bizarre rantings were just to tell you people (indirectly) and your
Kanggaroos that we don't need you. We proposed the EAEC and simply ignored
Australia and New Zealand just because of that. We are better and smarter
than you people. Why should we invite other countries that are stoopider
than us to join in the caucus.
>I don't care if Malaysia goes nutzoid whenever we're forced to point
>out the bleeding obvious. I just wish we'd stop drowning them in
>foreign aid.
Good idea. If u think you can do whatever you want, for the benefit of
your sick disgusting interest on the expense of others (Malaysia), then
take your god damn money back.
-azlan nordin
Penn State
>
>
>--
> Iain Sinclair axo...@socs.uts.edu.au
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
Meglicki) says:
>Hardly true. He is actually a very experienced leader who operates in
>one of most democratic societies in Asia (not that it says much in
>general terms, but as far as Asia is concerned it does). Under his
>management his country made a very remarkable economic progress.
Very true Gustav. The problem is that some of your fellow countrymen/
countrywomen are ignorant about this.
>The "quaint brand of apartheid" introduced by Mahathir was a necessity,
>widely agreed on by Malaysian Chinese population in the first place.
>It prevented further bloodshed and helped to advance the rather lethargic
>Malay population.
I vehemently disagree that Malaysian doemstic policy is a "quanit brand of
apartheid". Ok..why don't you elaborate a little with what u meant with
that statement. I really don't like that word "apartheid" because I know
for the fact that the Malaysian govt. policy is not even close to that
word. So, before I argue about it, why don't you explain the statement.
>Keating's remark was plainly irresponsible. In foreign affairs standards
>of behaviour are very different than in normal life and so it must be.
>We may think privately this or that about Mahathir, and even say so
>in public if we are just a private person. But when you represent a
>nation as Keating does, you've got to weigh every word when you make
>references about foreign leaders.
Very true. But, he already said it. Now, what should he do?
>|> out the bleeding obvious. I just wish we'd stop drowning them in
>|> foreign aid.
>
>I don't think Australia drowns them in foreign aid. They don't need
>it any more. They've got $US 7,208 GDP(PPP) per capita which is not
>all that far from New Zealand. Their students are now required to pay
>a lot of money for attending Australian Universities.
That's true.....
-azlan nordin
Penn State
>--
> Zdzislaw Meglicki, Zdzislaw...@cisr.anu.edu.au,
> Automated Reasoning Program - CISR, and Plasma Theory Group - RSPhysSE,
> The Australian National University, Canberra, A.C.T., 0200,
> Australia, fax: +61-6-249-0747, tel: +61-6-249-0158
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
Sinclair) says:
>Fidel Castro is an experienced leader, too; he has the system of government
>which suits him best.
>
> >It prevented further bloodshed and helped to advance the rather lethargic
> >Malay population.
>
>South Africa was more peaceful under apartheid, too. (BTW, I think
>you'll be rather hard-pressed to find many Malay Chinese who enthusiastically
>support institutionalised Malaysian racism.)
This Ian Sinclair probably doesn't know what "apartheid" means. Check the
disctionary will you? So, fucking stoopid...
>Our PM is entitled to speak his views on trade and regional situations,
>and mollycoddled third-world rulers are allowed to chuck their puerile
>fits about whatever miniscule thing offends them. Last time it was a
>TV program, wasn't it? I'm glad Malaysia was monitoring it; not too
>many Australians were.
Nobody denies the fact that your PM is entitled to speak his views on trade
and regional situations. But, if the views are stoopid and do not conform
to others (in this case, Mahathir), nobody can deny my right to say he (your
PM) is the biggest Kanggaroo after Hawke.
>It wasn't humorous. That was the most detailed analysis of the
>Malaysian-Australian relationship he was able to offer, at least
>this week.
So, my calling of Keating a Kanggaroo and perhaps you too is not humorous
too......
-azlan nordin
Penn State
>
>
>--
> Iain Sinclair axo...@socs.uts.edu.au
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
(John Nash) says:
>invoke an official "Buy British Last" policy to punish the UK for its
>economic strength in Malaysia, and of course, to thank them for saving
>their sorry arses from the communist insurgency problem.
What do you expect if the product "sucksss". You sounded like the
Americans. When the Japanese did not buy any American products, they said
the Japanese were trying to boycott their products. The fact is that
the American products are of low quality. What a cry baby....probably, the
best products that can enter Japan are from the Toy-R-Us (remember this?).
In fact, that only happened after Bush (former US president) puked all
over the place in the restaurant in Japan. Pathetic.
>If they keep on boasting about their relative economic strength
>compared to Australia's, I don't know why we give them a fucking dime.
>Mahathir has a big chip on his shoulder, and you just have to read his
>sorry book to see that.
Because of that book (I assumed u were talking the Malays Dilemma) Malaysia
is one of the fastest growing country. That book opened a lot of Malaysians
eyes to excel in the next century. We learned from our mistakes. And, we
are persistent about that. Perhaps Keating should write his very own book
about the "Australian Dilemma - The Kanggaroo Disease".
-azlan nordin
Penn State
>--
>cheers,
>John (in Ottawa, Canada). "Yet-another-Aussie-in-exile".
>"I'm not responsible..." Ian Gillan, Perfect Strangers, 1984.
Adam Eberbach
[snip]
: Then, what are you? A smartass shithead puppy?
[snip]
: That bizarre rantings were just to tell you people (indirectly) and your
: Kanggaroos that we don't need you. We proposed the EAEC and simply ignored
: Australia and New Zealand just because of that. We are better and smarter
: than you people. Why should we invite other countries that are stoopider
: than us to join in the caucus.
Grow up, sonny. Open your eyes. Learn to spell "Kangaroo".
"WE ARE BETTER AND SMARTER THAN YOU PEOPLE" ??? What a crushing flame!
I see that you've cross-posted to soc.culture.malaysia - I wonder how
many Malaysians there are cringing at your post, lest we think that all
Malaysians are like you?
Adam Eberbach, Computer Science student, RMIT. ad...@arcadia.cs.rmit.edu.au
Munirah Alatas
>In article <2cvq6i$s...@chancho.socs.uts.edu.au>, axo...@socs.uts.EDU.AU (Iain
>Sinclair) says:
>
>>Mahatir is an isolated, idiosyncratic, autocratic, hyper-sensitive
>>dickhead. He is committed to Malaysia's quaint brand of apartheid
*** Please read the Economist Nov. 6-12, pg. 31. Maybe you'll learn
more about Malaysia's "apartheid".
>>and other forms of xenophobia (which manifest themselves in pointedly
>>childish foreign policy). He wouldn't survive ten minutes in an open,
>>confrontational, democratic political environment, like Australia's.
>> Iain Sinclair axo...@socs.uts.edu.au
*** Dr. Mahathir's proposal for an EAEC was precisely to disconnect
SEA from the likes of the US, Europe and other interfering powers
so that the developing countries can expand and grow on our own.
Why is that so hard to accept? When a "small fish" shows it's large
teeth, why do the kiwis and the kangaroos put boxing gloves on?
I think this is a good awakening for those who are used to control
the underdogs; you see, we are no longer going to sit back and
accept your so-called "help". we have learnt and we are capable of
planning our own future. Decades of colonialism has taught us to
learn the hard way. We have come of age.
Alatas
John Nash
>In article <1993Nov26....@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jn...@nyx10.cs.du.edu
>(John Nash) says:
>>invoke an official "Buy British Last" policy to punish the UK for its
>>economic strength in Malaysia, and of course, to thank them for saving
>>their sorry arses from the communist insurgency problem.
>
>What do you expect if the product "sucksss". You sounded like the
>Americans. When the Japanese did not buy any American products, they said
>the Japanese were trying to boycott their products. The fact is that
>the American products are of low quality. What a cry baby....probably, the
>best products that can enter Japan are from the Toy-R-Us (remember this?).
>In fact, that only happened after Bush (former US president) puked all
>over the place in the restaurant in Japan. Pathetic.
Your post is an interesting piece of "mean-nothing", name-calling
rhetoric toeing the bumiputra party line. Instead of blindly raving
off a response (in fact several responses), try saying something of
substance. In short, "What's your fucking point?"
"The product suckss".. what product? Every British product? Without
spec'ing it? Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't or
are you just lapping up the free Bumiputra holiday you've been given
because of a race-lottery, and spouting typical UMNO Youth
Anti-British responses.
As for Japanese, or American marketing practices, neither of them are
spotless, I don't give a shit about their petty little trade war... I
have no problem driving a Corolla, and my local Toy'R'Us also stocks
"PlaySchool" products from New Zealand, so what's your point?
>>If they keep on boasting about their relative economic strength
>>compared to Australia's, I don't know why we give them a fucking dime.
>>Mahathir has a big chip on his shoulder, and you just have to read his
>>sorry book to see that.
>
>Because of that book (I assumed u were talking the Malays Dilemma) Malaysia
>is one of the fastest growing country. That book opened a lot of Malaysians
>eyes to excel in the next century. We learned from our mistakes. And, we
>are persistent about that. Perhaps Keating should write his very own book
>about the "Australian Dilemma - The Kanggaroo Disease".
Yes, the "Malay Dilemma" that the government banned for all those many
years because they were embarrassed by what it said, until Mahathir
came to power. Actually, to be honest, it had some good points, but
the good old doctor still comes across with a chip on his shoulder.
Actually, Mahathir is a canny politician with many good ideas, but his
authoritarian streak still smacks of paternalism, as if he knows
what's best for the people and nothing like democracy should get in
its way. Read "A Malaysian Journey" yet?
How come you guys are still trying to migrate to Australia, and swamp
our universities... and I don't mean those Malaysian Chinese, Indians
or Eurasians who *have* to go to Australia because they didn't meet
the racial quota to get into a local university.
Beng Teck Here...
> *** Dr. Mahathir's proposal for an EAEC was precisely to disconnect
> SEA from the likes of the US, Europe and other interfering powers
> so that the developing countries can expand and grow on our own.
> Why is that so hard to accept? When a "small fish" shows it's large
> teeth, why do the kiwis and the kangaroos put boxing gloves on?
> I think this is a good awakening for those who are used to control
> the underdogs; you see, we are no longer going to sit back and
> accept your so-called "help". we have learnt and we are capable of
> planning our own future. Decades of colonialism has taught us to
> learn the hard way. We have come of age.
right on Munirah! countries like US keep forgetting or neglecting to recall
that the EAEC is a FORUM not a bloody trade bloc/FTZ like NAFTA/EC. It is
unfortunate that Australia and countries like them, US included, Only think
about their own good. If I recall, Australia has a pretty bad racial record...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
__ __ __ __ _ _
\#\ /#/ |##\ /##| |#| |#| Khoo, Beng Teck
\#\ __ /#/ |#\#\/#/#| |#| |#| KBT PSI 1993 <:)
\#\/##\/#/ |#|\##/|#| |#|__|#| Faith, Hope and Love
\##/\##/estern |#| ~~ |#|ichigan \######/niversity "31K...@WMICH.EDU"
~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beng Teck Here...
Look, whatever book you everyone is talking about, Malay Dilema or A Malaysian
Journey, the fact is that Australians have given bad press to Malaysia before.
What about all that stuff about Turtle Beach thingy? And this isn't the first
time that Australia has got on the bad side of Malaysia. And what of all the
racial hapennings in Australia?
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
Eberbach) says:
>Grow up, sonny. Open your eyes. Learn to spell "Kangaroo".
Nope..it should be "open my dictionary". I did, BTW.
Ok....K-A-N-G-A-R-O-O. I sensed that you people are accepting the word
Kangaroo to represent your leader :-))))
>"WE ARE BETTER AND SMARTER THAN YOU PEOPLE" ??? What a crushing flame!
Pardon me Mr. Kangaroo. It was not meant to be a flame. It was just a plain
fact that you people simply couldn't accept. The Asians are smarter than
the Westerners. We are persistent people, we bear the unbearable and you
people are uneasy about that.
>I see that you've cross-posted to soc.culture.malaysia - I wonder how
>many Malaysians there are cringing at your post, lest we think that all
>Malaysians are like you?
I don't care....I asked for the permission to crosspost. Maybe the timing
was not perfect....:-)))
-azlan nordin
Penn State
Joseph Askew
I wonder what this is doing in soc.culture.british?
In article <1993Nov28.1...@gw.wmich.edu> 31k...@gw.wmich.edu (Beng Teck Here...) writes:
>In article <1993Nov28.1...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jn...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (John Nash) writes:
>Look, whatever book you everyone is talking about, Malay Dilema or A Malaysian
>Journey, the fact is that Australians have given bad press to Malaysia before.
So they have. Sometimes even without justification
>What about all that stuff about Turtle Beach thingy?
What about it? Semi-factual at least.
>And this isn't the first
>time that Australia has got on the bad side of Malaysia. And what of all the
>racial hapennings in Australia?
Malays in this country do not suffer from government sponsored
discrimination. Chinese in Malaysia do. You criticise your own
backyard and we will look after our own. Granted Keating is a
total prat and should have kept his mouth shut, being criticised
for racism when compared to Malaysia is a bit much. Even from
someone with a Chinese sounding name. APEC is Keating's chance
to strut the world stage and show what a hero he is. If the
Malaysian government decides to make it look less than totally
successful I think he has a right to feel a little annoyed. Of
course he is an idiot and fool but that is another matter. There
is nothing to suggest racism here. In the past perhaps the Malays
have not got fair treatment from Australias media. I would not
deny it, but the Malays go out of their way to attract such attacks
Joseph Askew
--
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud In the autumn stillness, see the Pleiades,
jas...@spam.maths.adelaide.edu Remote in thorny deserts, feel the grief.
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care North of our tents, the sky must end somwhere,
Actually, I rather like Brenda Beyond the pale, the River murmurs on.
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
(John Nash) says:
>Your post is an interesting piece of "mean-nothing", name-calling
>rhetoric toeing the bumiputra party line. Instead of blindly raving
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this some kind of your rhetoric too?
>off a response (in fact several responses), try saying something of
>substance. In short, "What's your fucking point?"
My fucking point for a stoopid fucking person like you is that:
"Let us be....Let us do whatever deem appropriate for our
national interest, for the people, the region and for the
Asians in general..."
>"The product suckss".. what product? Every British product? Without
>spec'ing it? Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't or
>are you just lapping up the free Bumiputra holiday you've been given
>because of a race-lottery, and spouting typical UMNO Youth
>Anti-British responses.
Compare to the Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese and even the Singaporeans...YES.
The Europeans and Americans products SUCKS!!!
>As for Japanese, or American marketing practices, neither of them are
>spotless, I don't give a shit about their petty little trade war... I
This show how uninformed you are regarding this issue. If u don't give a
shit about it, then you don't give a shit what's happening regarding the
issues in the SEA region. They are inter-related, and to ignore these
interelations is stupid and naive at best.
>have no problem driving a Corolla, and my local Toy'R'Us also stocks
>"PlaySchool" products from New Zealand, so what's your point?
Good for you..."Buy Malaysian Products First" next time....
>Yes, the "Malay Dilemma" that the government banned for all those many
>years because they were embarrassed by what it said, until Mahathir
Nope, I am not embarassed with what Mahathir said in the book. In fact, IMHO
Mahathir was being modest when he wrote that book. I have more ideas. Wait
until I come out with another book...a sequel to the Malay Dilemma :-)
By that time, the Malay Dilemma is over, the dilemma is within you (the
westerners).
The reason the book was banned was that the leaders during that time couldn't
accept the obvious in the Malaysian society. Now, people (the Malaysians) have
changed for the betterment of the country. Without that book, we can't see the
obvious that's happening in our society. For this, I thank Mahathir.
>came to power. Actually, to be honest, it had some good points, but
>the good old doctor still comes across with a chip on his shoulder.
>Actually, Mahathir is a canny politician with many good ideas, but his
>authoritarian streak still smacks of paternalism, as if he knows
>what's best for the people and nothing like democracy should get in
>its way. Read "A Malaysian Journey" yet?
I read too many books and articles, couldn't remember the exact title. I will
check it in my small library...ok.
>How come you guys are still trying to migrate to Australia, and swamp
>our universities... and I don't mean those Malaysian Chinese, Indians
>or Eurasians who *have* to go to Australia because they didn't meet
>the racial quota to get into a local university.
We followed the Japanese. The Japanese sent thousands of its people to
Europe and America during the time of the Meiji Emperor to acquire all the
scientific and technolgical expertise. Now, they become the wordl leader in
these areas of expertise. We will be there eventually.....
-azlan nordin
Penn State
Kenny Choo
By BILL TARRANT
Reuter
KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysia's Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad may have been the odd man out in skipping a Pacific Rim economic summit, but his message still got through, analysts said on Tuesday.
Mahathir boycotted the first summit of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum held at the weekend in the Pacific Northwest city of Seattle, saying it should remain a loose group concerned with helping weaker members develop.
'Clearly what came out of the APEC meeting was that the train has started to move and Malaysia has to choose when it's going to climb aboard,'' one senior Asian diplomat said.
The 14 leaders who met in an Indian longhouse on an island near Seattle issued a collective ''economic vision statement', pledging increased cooperation on trade, education and the environment. They agreed to meet again next year in Indonesia.
'I find it difficult to believe that Mahathir will not go to Indonesia,'' the diplomat said. Malaysia has strong cultural and linguistic ties with its giant Southeast Asian neighbour.
The pro-government Business Times in Kuala Lumpur said in an editorial on Tuesday that U.S. President Bill Clinton had heard Mahathir's message that APEC should evolve slowly.
'Yes, yes we do believe that finally Malaysia is being heard,'' it said. ''That is the best construction we can put on the just-ended Seattle summit...''
The Times said this was illustrated when Clinton, backing away from a Bush administration stand, told reporters at the summit his government did not object to a nascent East Asian Economic Caucus (EAEC).
The EAEC, a Mahathir brainchild still little more than a concept, would
group the newly-emerging economies of Southeast Asia -- Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Brunei -- and their dynamic neighbours in the northeast, includin
g Japan, China and South Korea.
Southeast Asian nations have agreed the EAEC would operate as a caucus within APEC. But the EAEC pointedly excludes the United States, Australia and Canada, which one wag described as as ''a caucus without the Caucasians'.
Mahathir, who has often engaged in ''shoot-from-the-lips'' diplomacy in his 12 years as Malaysia's prime minister, continued to snipe from the sidelines during the summit.
He told reporters he had no regrets about staying home. ''I don't understand why... I mean the condemnation against me as a person just because I didn't go,'' he said.
Mahathir reiterated his disappointment over Washington's cool response to the EAEC, a key tenet of Malaysia's foreign policy since he first suggested it two years ago.
'They don't want to accept EAEC because they (the United States) are not in,'' Mahathir said at the weekend before Clinton's latest remarks on the subject. ''They should not regard Asians as some rather strange group of people who should conform to Wester
n values and cultures.''
Mahathir was personally offended when former U.S. Secretary of State James Baker dismissed the EAEC, saying it would ''draw a line down the Pacific'.
Mahathir recognises that his finely-honed outrageousness is often a ploy to get attention.
'To be better known, sometimes you have to be nasty,'' he told a conference of foreign investors last week. ''What we are doing is wooing foreign businessmen while thumbing our noses at their governments.''
The Asian diplomat said the only real difference among APEC members at the sumit was how fast it should evolve.
'Mahathir may have lost an opportunity to put his hand on the lever controlling the speed, but I don't think there was any great damage to Malaysia.''
APEC groups 17 members -- Australia, Canada, Brunei, China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, the Philippines, Papua New Guinea, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand and the United States.
Its members encompass 40 percent of the world's population and half of global trade.
Transmitted: 93-11-23 18:01:12 EST
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
>MAHATHIR MAY MISS APEC TRAIN, BUT MESSAGE HEARD 11/23/93
>
>By BILL TARRANT
>Reuter
>
>KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysia's Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad may have been the
>odd
>man out in skipping a Pacific Rim economic summit, but his message still got
>through, analysts said on Tuesday.
Good.
>'Clearly what came out of the APEC meeting was that the train has started to
>move and Malaysia has to choose when it's going to climb aboard,'' one senior
>Asian diplomat said.
Yes the train has started, but we have to wait first in order to find out
"where are they going" and "following whose direction".
>The 14 leaders who met in an Indian longhouse on an island near Seattle issueda
>collective ''economic vision statement', pledging increased cooperation on
>trade, education and the environment. They agreed to meet again next year in
>Indonesia.
This is yet to be experienced. It shouldn't be a "compromise", it should be a
"synergism". A "You WIN-I WIN" situation, not a "WIN-LOSE" or "LOSE-WIN"
situations. Then, everybody will be treated as equal partner.
>'I find it difficult to believe that Mahathir will not go to Indonesia,'' the
>diplomat said. Malaysia has strong cultural and linguistic ties with its giant
>Southeast Asian neighbour.
It depends on "where the train is going" and "following whose direction".
If the train is called "Oriental Express" but everything is going in the
Western direction, believe it, Mahathir won't be there again. And, of course
Keating will cry like a baby again.
>'To be better known, sometimes you have to be nasty,'' he told a conference of
>foreign investors last week. ''What we are doing is wooing foreign businessmen
>while thumbing our noses at their governments.''
*ditto* *ditto* *ditto*
>'Mahathir may have lost an opportunity to put his hand on the lever
>controlling
>the speed, but I don't think there was any great damage to Malaysia.''
He will be there when everything is for the benefit of the region (SEA) and
its people. Now, Malaysia is still curious with the implemntation of the
outcomes of the meeting. Slowing the evolution of the process is one way
to make sure that the developing countries can monitor the corporation as a
whole and reduce the risk of being exploited by the developed countries.
Anyway, it is still premature to come out with any conclusions for now. We
will wait and see....
>APEC groups 17 members -- Australia, Canada, Brunei, China, Hong Kong,
>Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, the Philippines,
>Papua New Guinea, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand and the United States.
>
>Its members encompass 40 percent of the world's population and half of global
>trade.
One thing that I don't reaaly feel comfortable is that NAFTA. I still think
that this NAFTA is a major threat to SEA and Asia.
>Transmitted: 93-11-23 18:01:12 EST
-azlan nordin
Penn State
Loo Tatt King
Your efforts at defending the Malaysian government stance is indeed laudable.
I mention only `efforts' as I do not totally agree with everything you say.
However, I do cringe at your misspellings of certain very simple words...
They do nothing to reinforce your already highly dubious points that Asians
are smarter than the rest of the world put together...
Those jumping creatures are KANGAROOS. People with limited intelligence
are not stoopid, they're merely STUPID! :-)
Have a good day! Spank a baby!
Tatt.
Iain Sinclair
>That childish foreign policy is the one that made Malaysia as one of the
>fastest groing and developing countries in the world.
It's true that economic success doesn't have anything to do with
human rights.
>I don't think Mahathir can't survive
>any confrontations in Australia. In fact, I am afraid that he might kick
>your ass before you even know it.
He'd have to improve the spelling and grammar skills of Malaysian
expatriates first.
>Good idea. If u think you can do whatever you want, for the benefit of
>your sick disgusting interest on the expense of others (Malaysia), then
>take your god damn money back.
So you want your abysmal pre-Western-investment living standards back?
Fine with me, though I doubt many Malaysians would be too keen on the
idea.
--
Iain Sinclair axo...@socs.uts.edu.au
SUHAIMI, MANSOR
>In article <2d9va3$8...@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, ad...@arcadia.cs.rmit.EDU.AU (Adam
>Eberbach) says:
>
>
>>"WE ARE BETTER AND SMARTER THAN YOU PEOPLE" ??? What a crushing flame!
>
>Pardon me Mr. Kangaroo. It was not meant to be a flame. It was just a plain
>fact that you people simply couldn't accept. The Asians are smarter than
>the Westerners. We are persistent people, we bear the unbearable and you
>people are uneasy about that.
>
from that flame. I've never known any White race to be smarter than
any Asian race. Never been down under and don't see why I should. FYI
the two designers of the 'Pentium' uP are Asians, from India, which
really anulls that stupid claim above. You must be one of those white
folk who still couldn't assimilate the growing number of non-white
international intellectuals. Get with the times, buddy!!
>>I see that you've cross-posted to soc.culture.malaysia - I wonder how
>>many Malaysians there are cringing at your post, lest we think that all
>>Malaysians are like you?
>
Well, one Malaysian is glad that he's kicking some white-convict-
country grabbing-asses.
Suhaimi Mansor
CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
5031...@wild.ucis.vill.edu (SUHAIMI, MANSOR) writes:
>
>In article <93332.210...@psuvm.psu.edu>, NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu writes...
>>In article <2d9va3$8...@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, ad...@arcadia.cs.rmit.EDU.AU (Adam
>>Eberbach) says:
>>
>>
>>>"WE ARE BETTER AND SMARTER THAN YOU PEOPLE" ??? What a crushing flame!
>>
>>Pardon me Mr. Kangaroo. It was not meant to be a flame. It was just a plain
>>fact that you people simply couldn't accept. The Asians are smarter than
>>the Westerners. We are persistent people, we bear the unbearable and you
>>people are uneasy about that.
>>
> Hello guys, pardon me for butting in, but I do take offense
>from that flame. I've never known any White race to be smarter than
>any Asian race. Never been down under and don't see why I should. FYI
>the two designers of the 'Pentium' uP are Asians, from India, which
>really anulls that stupid claim above. You must be one of those white
>folk who still couldn't assimilate the growing number of non-white
>international intellectuals. Get with the times, buddy!!
Last year, I went from department to department in Monash University. One
thing I did notice was that at least 7 out of 10 of their graduate students
in those more significant departments are Asians. How do I know? They
posted the pictures of those graduate students in front of each main
department office.
Are catching spelling errors all you kangaroos can do? Come on, you can
do better than that, can't you? Don't forget that English is our second
language. You kangaroos should find yourself a hole if you can't write
your own language better than we do.
> Well, one Malaysian is glad that he's kicking some white-convict-
>country grabbing-asses.
See, the 21st century belongs to the Asians. The Asians are going to buy all
your stocks, buildings and beaches. You will be buying beers from the Asian
companies. And you bet the Japanese men will have group tours all over the
land of the Kangaroos buying your women, cheap! Already they are doing it!
-AL
>
> Suhaimi Mansor
John Nash
>In article <1993Nov28.1...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jn...@nyx10.cs.du.edu
>(John Nash) says:
>
>>Your post is an interesting piece of "mean-nothing", name-calling
>>rhetoric toeing the bumiputra party line. Instead of blindly raving
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Is this some kind of your rhetoric too?
Of course it is rhetoric. Stuff I heard in KL lots of times. Pulled
the right lever though, didn't I!!!
>>off a response (in fact several responses), try saying something of
>>substance. In short, "What's your fucking point?"
>
>My fucking point for a stoopid fucking person like you is that:
>
> "Let us be....Let us do whatever deem appropriate for our
> national interest, for the people, the region and for the
> Asians in general..."
By all means do it. My problem is not with much of what Malaysia does
(I actually have a lot of respect for much of Malaysia's
attitudes/actions), it's with thin-skinned Malaysians (often Malays)
cannot take criticism, and have an "iron-glove" attutude to policy.
You're a prime example, and I (like several other s.c.a readers) am
having a bloody good time having a laugh at your expense. Keating
calls Mahathir "recalcitrant", and he gets shitty, and you start
pounding s.c.a with all sorts of defensive anti-Australian postings.
I stir the pot with a few random jibes and watch the frenetic
scribblings posted in reponse as you sit (probably red-faced),
pounding all sorts of angry responses, insults, flames, etc. When
you've calmed down (If?), we'll all sit down and discuss this
rationally.
>>"The product suckss".. what product? Every British product? Without
>>spec'ing it?
>
>Compare to the Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese and even the Singaporeans...YES.
>The Europeans and Americans products SUCKS!!!
Bear with my stoopidity, if you'll get off your high horse. Calm
down, take a deep breath (got any Valium, with your last few posts,
you look like you need it) and calmly and rationally tell me: How do
they suck? What makes them suck? Does EVERY product to come from N.
America or Europe suck (beside vacuum cleaners)? Yoursq is a rather
sweeping generalisation to make. May I have some evidence please?
Don't forget, my original question was why did Mahathir invoke the Buy
British Last policy in the early-80s.. so instead of going on a rabid
tirade agianst non-SEA nations, please couch your answer in those
terms. I say it was for political, not economic or QC reasons. Do
you disagree?
>This show how uninformed you are regarding this issue. If u don't give a
>shit about it, then you don't give a shit what's happening regarding the
>issues in the SEA region. They are inter-related, and to ignore these
>interelations is stupid and naive at best.
You're right... I live in North America and don't give a shit. You
can go on and tell me how ignorant that is, but as I said, it doesn't
really affect me so I don't give a shit. As long as it's cheap and it
works, who cares where a product comes from. I don't see much (any?)
"made in Malaysia" stuff here. Certainly, the cheap
Korean/Phillipines/Taiwanese/ROC clothes here suck, so I tend to buy
US or Canadian or European clothes.
>By that time, the Malay Dilemma is over, the dilemma is within you (the
>westerners).
Fine, that's mere nationalistic pride. Malaysia will probably do well
for itself. To be economically successful, you have to remain
relatively non-isolationist, you have to get on with others, and not
be so bloody thin-skinned. If you're following the NAFTA stuff (and
posting from Penn State, you're probably being exposed to it), the
word "recalcitrant" would probably be shrugged off with a laugh
compared to what folk are calling each other around here. If you
recall, that was the word that started your little tirade. Another
thing, I suppose a market of 17 million is also nothing to you.
>We followed the Japanese. The Japanese sent thousands of its people to
>Europe and America during the time of the Meiji Emperor to acquire all the
>scientific and technolgical expertise. Now, they become the wordl leader in
>these areas of expertise. We will be there eventually.....
I see no smiley, but I assume you're joking! You'll have to elbow out
Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and even those N. Americans
and Europeans you despise, and with the EEC, and NAFTA trade blocks, I
can't see you doing it. Even Mexico has that idea, and you'll have to
compete with them!
Over to you, Mr Nordin.
SAW C
>In article <2d29oc$b...@chancho.socs.uts.edu.au>, axo...@socs.uts.EDU.AU (Iain
>Sinclair) says:
>
>>Fidel Castro is an experienced leader, too; he has the system of government
>>which suits him best.
>>
>> >It prevented further bloodshed and helped to advance the rather lethargic
>> >Malay population.
>>
>>South Africa was more peaceful under apartheid, too. (BTW, I think
>>you'll be rather hard-pressed to find many Malay Chinese who enthusiastically
>>support institutionalised Malaysian racism.)
>
>This Ian Sinclair probably doesn't know what "apartheid" means. Check the
>disctionary will you? So, fucking stoopid...
>
definition of 'apartheid'!? If this guy thinks (still) that S.Africa
is in more peaceful situation, then why should all the countries in
world (almost) boycott S.Arican just because of the policy of the
'apartheid'!!
Does this guy actually know that how this policy work ?
For example : the black peolpe are no allowed to take the same bus,
to eat in the same restaurants, to swim or to play on the same seashore
with the white people !!
In front of some restaurants, seashores, there are sign-boards saying
that " WHITE ONLY "!!!!!
What does this guy think if there is a sign-board on front of a 5-star
hotel or restaurant saying that " Native Only " !? Don't forget,
white people in Australia are not the real native people in Aus.
That's all I can say.
>>Our PM is entitled to speak his views on trade and regional situations,
>>and mollycoddled third-world rulers are allowed to chuck their puerile
>>fits about whatever miniscule thing offends them. Last time it was a
>>TV program, wasn't it? I'm glad Malaysia was monitoring it; not too
>>many Australians were.
>
>Nobody denies the fact that your PM is entitled to speak his views on trade
>and regional situations. But, if the views are stoopid and do not conform
>to others (in this case, Mahathir), nobody can deny my right to say he (your
>PM) is the biggest Kanggaroo after Hawke.
>
>>It wasn't humorous. That was the most detailed analysis of the
>>Malaysian-Australian relationship he was able to offer, at least
>>this week.
>
>So, my calling of Keating a Kanggaroo and perhaps you too is not humorous
>too......
>
>-azlan nordin
> Penn State
>
>>
>>
>>--
>> Iain Sinclair axo...@socs.uts.edu.au
>.
>.
Bunweasel
=]NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
=][snip]
=]: Then, what are you? A smartass shithead puppy?
=][snip]
=]: That bizarre rantings were just to tell you people (indirectly) and your
=]: Kanggaroos that we don't need you. We proposed the EAEC and simply ignored
=]: Australia and New Zealand just because of that. We are better and smarter
=]: than you people. Why should we invite other countries that are stoopider
=]: than us to join in the caucus.
=]
=]Grow up, sonny. Open your eyes. Learn to spell "Kangaroo".
Geez, there are few things lamer than spellflaming someone who speaks
more languages than you do. Correct politely, otherwise you look stupid.
=]"WE ARE BETTER AND SMARTER THAN YOU PEOPLE" ??? What a crushing flame!
=]
=]I see that you've cross-posted to soc.culture.malaysia - I wonder how
=]many Malaysians there are cringing at your post, lest we think that all
=]Malaysians are like you?
Yep, Australia has lots of wallys like this to apologise for. It's a sad
fact that many Australians are politically ignorant, but we're getting
better. At least we can recognise a rainforest when there's less of it
every day, and we're kind of getting better at recognising genocides as
they happen. It shouldn't be too long before we stop accepting wood from
Sarawak - the pressure is on for a boycott here. How do you Malaysians feel
about losing the Penans? - Do they deserve it? How about losing your forests?
Do you care?
-m.
Kin Yan Chung
>Asians are of course smarter than those lazy and stoooopid kangaroooos.
>Last year, I went from department to department in Monash University. One
>thing I did notice was that at least 7 out of 10 of their graduate students
>in those more significant departments are Asians.
First of all, I am an Asian but I am also an Australian. Does that mean
that I am smarter than myself? :-)
So you visited Monash University and noticed that "at least 7 out of 10"
graduate students in the "more significant departments" are Asian. You may
be surprised to find that many of them are also Australian. Anyway, what
do you mean by "more significant"? Graduate study in any subject requires
competence and intelligence; just because one subject requires different
skills does not make it less significant than another subject.
Has it also occurred to you that many Asians from outside Australia choose
to study in Australia because of its better educational facilities combined
with the location? The South East Asian population is much greater than
Australia's, so it shouldn't be surprising to find the demographics
reflected in higher education. Moreover, as someone else has pointed out,
a lot of Chinese Malaysians are forced to study in Australia because of the
quotas imposed by the Malaysian government.
I am now studying at Princeton University, and there is only one Malaysian
graduate student while there are at least seven Aussies. By your argument,
this means that the "stoooopid kangaroooos (sic)" are smarter than
Malaysians. Now I don't believe that you can make such generalisations,
therefore your argument must be invalid.
--
Kin Yan Chung (kin...@math.princeton.edu) O O O Sydney
"Kill Kenny!" "Who's he?" "The Evil One, King of Lies, O O 2000
Prince of Darkness and Confusion." (UWA graffiti)
I've got this vi thing worked out.... :w :q :wq! ZZ ^Z ^D ^[[1^[[1^ ^H ^C^C^C^C
Adam Eberbach
: In article <2d9va3$8...@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, ad...@arcadia.cs.rmit.EDU.AU (Adam
: Eberbach) says:
:
: Ok....K-A-N-G-A-R-O-O. I sensed that you people are accepting the word
: Kangaroo to represent your leader :-))))
I am sure the PM is used to being called lots of names. One more won't
bother him, or me.
:
: >"WE ARE BETTER AND SMARTER THAN YOU PEOPLE" ??? What a crushing flame!
:
: Pardon me Mr. Kangaroo. It was not meant to be a flame. It was just a plain
: fact that you people simply couldn't accept. The Asians are smarter than
: the Westerners. We are persistent people, we bear the unbearable and you
: people are uneasy about that.
You obviously don't bear the unbearable - you jump up and down and scream
"TRADE SANCTIONS!" Perhaps it wasn't a flame, just a racist generalisation.
Well, I apologise for not getting your meaning the first time. You will
note that when I say YOU I mean YOU PERSONALLY - you will find that most
people won't ascribe characteristics to a racial group as a whole because
of one pissant.
Kenny Choo
ecalcitrant" for refusing to attend the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) leaders' meeting in Seattle earlier this month.
Opposition Leader John Hewson said Australian exports, investment and jobs were at stake as a result of threatened trade bans by Malaysia in retaliation for Keating's remarks.
Hewson said Keating's remarks, made in Seattle, had put increasing strain on Australia's relations with Malaysia.
"At the time of Mr. Keating's comments the opposition - in the national interest - did not seek to make the situation any more difficult than it otherwise was," Hewson said in a statement Monday.
"But the matter has clearly moved on," Hewson said. "Australian exports, investment and jobs are increasingly at stake. The consequences of Mr. Keating's comments in Seattle have gone far beyond whatever he may have intended by them.
"The potential for damage as a result of the current situation is clear as exemplified in the recent Malaysian ban on Australian programs, news, information and advertising," he said.
Transmitted: 93-11-29 02:38:00 EST
Brendan Jones
> [re next APEC meeting in Jakarta next year]
> If the train is called "Oriental Express" but everything is going in the
> Western direction, believe it, Mahathir won't be there again. And, of
> course Keating will cry like a baby again.
You may have to eat your words. President Soeharto of Indonesia released a
press statement yesterday saying that he is fully confident that Dr Mahatir
will attend the next APEC leaders' meeting in Jakarta in 1994.
Somehow, I can't imagine Dr Mahatir will snub Soeharto. Not only are Malaysia
and Indonesia realtively close, I understand the two men like and respect each
other. Dr Mahatir will be there.
--
Brendan Jones (PhD Student) | Email: bre...@mpce.mq.edu.au | XXVII Olympiad
Electronics Department | Voice: +61 2 805 9072 | O O O
School of MPC&E | Fax : +61 2 805 9128 | O O
Macquarie University | Snail: +NSW 2109 AUSTRALIA | SYDNEY 2000
CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
something out of it. 8-) Boy, you are boring. Yawn! Yawn! Yawn!
Gregory A. Haverkamp
>>In article <2d9va3$8...@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>,
ad...@arcadia.cs.rmit.EDU.AU (Adam
>>Eberbach) says:
>>
>>
>>>"WE ARE BETTER AND SMARTER THAN YOU PEOPLE" ??? What a crushing flame!
>>
>>Pardon me Mr. Kangaroo. It was not meant to be a flame. It was just a plain
>>fact that you people simply couldn't accept. The Asians are smarter than
>>the Westerners. We are persistent people, we bear the unbearable and you
>>people are uneasy about that.
>>
> Hello guys, pardon me for butting in, but I do take offense
>from that flame. I've never known any White race to be smarter than
>any Asian race. Never been down under and don't see why I should. FYI
>the two designers of the 'Pentium' uP are Asians, from India, which
>really anulls that stupid claim above. You must be one of those white
>folk who still couldn't assimilate the growing number of non-white
>international intellectuals. Get with the times, buddy!!
I think the initial portion was poorly parsed, i.e., I think the author
of the line in caps intended that line to be mocking the points of the
person who originally said that about the Asian folks.
As for this race comparison, it all seems quite silly. There is little
evidence to support any claim that any ethnicity is better than another.
In fact, I would claim that if there are any differences, they are
cultural. It's not ethnicity that breeds work ethic, but one's
environment.
I've known lots of Asians and I've known lots of whites. Problem with
trying to lump either group is that both are quite heterogeneuous in
their cultures. When you speak of Asians, take a look at the large
group of people you are including. Do the same when you speak of
whites. And blacks. And so on... To lump any one group as a
homogenous group is somewhat ludicrous.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia: 29-Nov-93 Re: Mahatir spurs
diplomati.. CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.ed (2329)
> Asians are of course smarter than those lazy and stoooopid kangaroooos.
What Asians are those? If I were to pick a random individual from the
streets of KL, would he/she definitely be smarter than a random
individual picked from the streets of Sydney? And how would we guage
who was smarter?
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia: 29-Nov-93 Re: Mahatir spurs
diplomati.. CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.ed (2329)
> Last year, I went from department to department in Monash University. One
> thing I did notice was that at least 7 out of 10 of their graduate students
> in those more significant departments are Asians. How do I know? They
> posted the pictures of those graduate students in front of each main
> department office.
I don't think this proves anything. I could do the same at my
University, and I would almost assuredly not find that. Either way, I
do not believe that it supports superiority of either race.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia: 29-Nov-93 Re: Mahatir spurs
diplomati.. CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.ed (2329)
> Good job, Azlan! Kick their asses! Those descendants of the criminals!
Any number of derogatory comments, I am sure, could be crafted to attack
those of Chinese descent. Dr. M himself has provided lots of ammunition
with which to attack those of Malay ancestry (e.g., The Malay Dilemma).
In the end, it all gets us nowhere.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia: 29-Nov-93 Re: Mahatir spurs
diplomati.. CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.ed (2329)
> See, the 21st century belongs to the Asians. The Asians are going to buy all
> your stocks, buildings and beaches. You will be buying beers from the Asian
> companies. And you bet the Japanese men will have group tours all over the
> land of the Kangaroos buying your women, cheap! Already they are doing it!
Now is it the Asians or the Japanese? To assume Asian==Japanese is
false. To assume that Japanese => Asian is similarly false. And to
assume that the present state of Japanese prosperity (ahem, for the time
being?) implies the same for others in the region is to make an
assumption on less than a firm foundation.
Perhaps a quick glance through a world history book would allow you to
see the cyclic trend of nations. After all, in 1693, who ever would
have dreamed that a few people who skipped across an ocean would have
become richer and more powerful than those from whom they ran? Not
many, to answer my own question.
In essence, it is important to look at the past to determine the future.
I don't think you've looked far enough back, or at the proper past.
Greg
_____________________
Greg Haverkamp -- gh...@andrew.cmu.edu, diet...@cmu.edu
Industrial Management - '94
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
"Sometimes I think life is just a rodeo. The trick is to ride and make
it to the bell." John Fogerty, "Rock and Roll Girls"
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
>were
>at stake as a result of threatened trade bans by Malaysia in retaliation for
>Keating's remarks.
See, a litte arm-twisting doesn't hurt that much. Is it? :-))
Stoopid...If he (Keating) was more careful earlier, all these self-made
nightmares would not have happened in the first place.
Right John Nash? Brendan? and other Kangaroos?
-azlan nordin
Penn State
Lucas Adamski
>In article <2da6pl$3...@chancho.socs.uts.edu.au>, axo...@socs.uts.EDU.AU (Iain
>Sinclair) says:
>> >I don't think Mahathir can't survive
>> >any confrontations in Australia. In fact, I am afraid that he might kick
>> >your ass before you even know it.
>>
>>He'd have to improve the spelling and grammar skills of Malaysian
>>expatriates first.
>
>After all the heated argument, this stuck-up can only come out with my
>spelling and grammar mistakes. You people (the Australians) are really
>something.
You people? You people? Well, if all Malaysians are have as big a mouth and
small a brain as you do, then I really feel sorry for the world. Fortunately,
I'm sure that's not true. You certainly have a flair for logical arguments
though... "he might kick your ass before you even know it." You've been
hanging around too many American jocks.
>> >Good idea. If u think you can do whatever you want, for the benefit of
>> >your sick disgusting interest on the expense of others (Malaysia), then
>> >take your god damn money back.
>>
>>So you want your abysmal pre-Western-investment living standards back?
>>Fine with me, though I doubt many Malaysians would be too keen on the
>>idea.
>
>What an ignoramus of the year I have found over here. I have never seen
>such a stoopid Adam's family turkey for so long until I found this guy.
>Get a life will you? Find a part time job or something....Get out of
>your coconut shell for a while and smell some Malaysian coffee....
>
>So stoopid. Arguing with you really reduced my IQ for a minute.
Really? Didn't know it could go negative. I suggest you either get a brain
to match your mouth, or shut it.
//Lucas.
Oh yeah.... FLAME OFF
Faruq abd ul-Rafi
reporting:
>"The potential for damage as a result of the current situation is clear as
>exemplified in the recent Malaysian ban on Australian programs, news,
>information and advertising," [Australian Opposition Leader John Hewson] said.
I don't recall ever seeing that much in the way of "Australian programs, news,
information and advertising" in Malaysia in the first place. How can the
Malaysian ban be anything more than symbolic? If the intention were really
to try to do harm to Australia, aren't there other products (e.g., beef) that
would make for a much more effective boycott?
_____
Faruq abd ul-Rafi (R. A. Nelson)
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Department of Philosophy
105 Gregory Hall, 810 S. Wright St., Urbana, IL 61801
Phone: 217/244-2650 (office), 328-6947 (home), 244-8355 (fax)
E-mail: fa...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Weilian Lee
I feel that there needs to be a balancing view from a Malaysian
who isn't quite as intent on Western-bashing. After reading
this thread through I wouldn't be surprised if readers think
that Malaysia is a nest of Aussie-hating Asian supremists and
ethnocentrists. So here is my contribution to the contrary.
I for one don't think our PM should be so sensitive to a
trivial remark that has no bearing on practical matters.
Especially since he has said some pretty nasty things about
leaders of other countries even when uncalled for. Nor do
I think he should isolate Malaysia from the western world
just to prove a point. Taking a stand does not mean being
antagonistic. Nor do I think Asians are any smarter than
Caucasions. I just think that their brains work differently and
that Caucasians and Asians are good at different things. And
while Asia may excel at producing certain consumer goods, America at
least still makes superior aerospace products and computers.
Malaysia can't claim to be anywhere close to the US in research
and development. I don't think the next century will belong to
anyone. It will just be more equitably distributed. The era of
singular domination is over.
There it is. I think there are Malaysians out there who agree
with my points. I hope so anyway.
Wei Lian Lee
The University of Virginia
Bunweasel
=]Look, whatever book you everyone is talking about, Malay Dilema or A Malaysian
=]Journey, the fact is that Australians have given bad press to Malaysia before.
=]What about all that stuff about Turtle Beach thingy? And this isn't the first
=]time that Australia has got on the bad side of Malaysia. And what of all the
=]racial hapennings in Australia?
The racial issue in Australia is about admitting that some nasty stuff went
on and still goes on, and thinking about what to do about it.
The racial issue in Malaysia is about finding ways to do more nasty stuff
and hoping nobody will notice.
From what I hear, people outside Malaysia get more information about what's
going on in their forests than Malaysians in Malaysia do.
Our ancestors have been there and done that. Learn from those mistakes.
Wiping out harmless indigenous cultures is not something to be proud of.
-m.
Brendan Jones
>country grabbing-asses.
>
> Suhaimi Mansor
Zdzislaw, Do we really want to kiss the butts of people such as
Suhaimi Mansor, Azlan Nordin and Mahathir? Gareth Evans policy
of puckering and burying his face between their puffy cheecks
doesn't seem to be doing us any good! Maybe it's time to play
hard ball. Gareth Evans has tried humiliation, and looks at the
sort of response it gets from those he is grovelling to.
"You'll never earn respect from kissing someones ass"
GET A SPINE AUSTRALIA! You make me sick...
cheers
bj
Brendan Jones
>So stoopid. Arguing with you really reduced my IQ for a minute.
Azlan, zero divided by any number is still zero.
>
>-azlan nordin
> Penn State
>
Rubin Dhillon
Iain Sinclair
>Decades of colonialism has taught us to
>learn the hard way. We have come of age.
Centuries of colonialism has taught us not to grovel to people
who don't deserve it, too.
--
Iain Sinclair axo...@socs.uts.edu.au
Iain Sinclair
>This Ian Sinclair probably doesn't know what "apartheid" means. Check the
>disctionary will you? So, fucking stoopid...
Five spelling/grammar errors in two lines. Impressive, but your compatriots
probably don't appreciate gibbering idiots from psu attempting to be
ambassadors for their country.
--
Iain Sinclair axo...@socs.uts.edu.au
Niranjan Ravindran
>In article <1993Nov28.1...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jn...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (John Nash) writes:
>
>Look, whatever book you everyone is talking about, Malay Dilema or A Malaysian
>
The previlage of having a free press is that they are free to print anything
they like - gee - if you compare the US press, it makes the Australian press
look like poor cousins.
Why are people so scared of the printed word - why are the "rulers" so
paranoid of a different point of view. Censorship - a concept invented bu
the few to blind the masses - obviously they do a good job in Malaysia,
Singapore, Russia (thanks to Boris) and .........
Who cares if Malaysia gets bad press in Australia or if Australia get bad
press in Malaysia - i'd rather have a bad press than no press or the
"official press"
Niranjan
Munirah Alatas
Faruq abd ul-Rafi <fa...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>I don't recall ever seeing that much in the way of "Australian programs, news,
>information and advertising" in Malaysia in the first place. How can the
>Malaysian ban be anything more than symbolic? If the intention were really
>to try to do harm to Australia, aren't there other products (e.g., beef) that
>would make for a much more effective boycott?
>Faruq abd ul-Rafi (R. A. Nelson)
>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Department of Philosophy
>105 Gregory Hall, 810 S. Wright St., Urbana, IL 61801
>Phone: 217/244-2650 (office), 328-6947 (home), 244-8355 (fax)
>E-mail: fa...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
*** Good point, but what then, would you say is the primary
objective/motive for PM's "behavior", reaction to this comment?
I mean could he be reacting for world-wide publicity, which he
already has gotten (NYT, Washington Post, Economist, CNN, etc.)?
If it is that publicity, what's the point? Many analysts in the
west are treating this matter as "trivial" in the sense of
dismissing Mahathir as "petty", etc. Do we Malaysians really
cut that image out here in the west?
And as another netter said, what about next years' meetings in
Jakarta? Will Mahathir boycott that one too? I think not. Which
leaves us to specualate that maybe, just maybe, there was more
in his boycott than meets the eye.
sma
Munirah Alatas
**** I agree with you; My post did not imply my
pleasure with "groveling"....
I think you would see that SCM has some
moderates concerning this issue.
Munirah Alatas
CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
b...@hatch.socal.com (Brendan Jones) writes:
>>So stoopid. Arguing with you really reduced my IQ for a minute.
>
>Azlan, zero divided by any number is still zero.
Okay, I take that back. An idiot probably doesn't know that. But don't they
teach that to you in the middle school? I wonder.
-AL
CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
hoco...@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Heath O'Connell) writes:
>mich...@cs.uq.oz.au (Bunweasel) writes:
>>In a previous article , ad...@arcadia.cs.rmit.EDU.AU (Adam Eberbach) writes:
>>=]Grow up, sonny. Open your eyes. Learn to spell "Kangaroo".
>
>>Geez, there are few things lamer than spellflaming someone who speaks
>>more languages than you do.
>
He does. And the majority of Malaysians do.
>>Correct politely.
>
> Good advice.
Just wonder why some of them are still not getting it. I don't know about
you guys, but I just can't quite bring myself to read posts for the sake of
catching grammer and spelling errors. Get a life, my friends!
-AL
>--
> hoco...@dirac.physics.adelaide.edu.au
Shyue Fong Quek
-quek
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All opinions only reflect my personal interest and experience
The University of Texas at Austin, Elec & Comp Engr, ENS 142, Austin, TX 78712
qu...@cs.utexas.edu | quek...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | qu...@cerc.utexas.edu
Lucas Adamski
>In article <2de6lp$4...@huon.itd.adelaide.edu.au>
>hoco...@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Heath O'Connell) writes:
>
>>mich...@cs.uq.oz.au (Bunweasel) writes:
>>>In a previous article , ad...@arcadia.cs.rmit.EDU.AU (Adam Eberbach) writes:
>>>=]Grow up, sonny. Open your eyes. Learn to spell "Kangaroo".
>>
>>>Geez, there are few things lamer than spellflaming someone who speaks
>>>more languages than you do.
>>
>> Does he?
>
>He does. And the majority of Malaysians do.
Hmm... I find it interesting that you _assume_ that someone who is Malaysian
automagically knows more languages that someone from Australia. I grew up
in Australia and I know three... (only two well though).
>>>Correct politely.
>>
>> Good advice.
>
>Just wonder why some of them are still not getting it. I don't know about
>you guys, but I just can't quite bring myself to read posts for the sake of
>catching grammer and spelling errors. Get a life, my friends!
If someone can't say what they mean well, then I doubt they're worth listening
to. In other words, if you expect anyone to take you seriously, you should
at least sound like you graduated high school.
//Lucas.
Adam Eberbach
:
: My fucking point for a stoopid fucking person like you is that:
Trading posts with you is getting to be like poking a yapping dog
with a stick. The noise just gets louder and angrier, but it doesn't say
much. Please just go away? E-mail from several regular readers of
soc.culture.malaysian has said that you're just a moron who likes
to post flamebait. By all means, keep posting - just don't think
for a minute that you will be taken seriously if you can't learn to
talk to people without abusing them.
: Good for you..."Buy Malaysian Products First" next time....
Curry laksa for me, thanks.
Adam Eberbach
: Demands for apology by Australia Prime Minister to Malaysian counterpart CANBERRA (Nov. 29) UPI - Australia's Prime Minister Paul Keating Monday came under mounting pressure to apologize to his Malaysian counterpart Dr. Mahathir Mohamad for calling him "r
: ecalcitrant" for refusing to attend the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) leaders' meeting in Seattle earlier this month.
These demands were certainly not reported in the Australian press. John
Howard, shadow industry minister and former leader of the opposition was
quoted as saying "it was a stupid thing to say" but that Keating "had a right
to say it" and should "not apologize".
Not even the Melbourne "Herald-Sun", an anti-Labor and anti-Keating
newspaper if there ever was one, says that he should apologize. In fact
an article appeared in Monday's edition giving many reasons why he should
not.
Who said that he should? You mention Hewson, but you don't say that he
said that Keating should apologize.
George Antony
>See, the 21st century belongs to the Asians. The Asians are going to buy all
>your stocks, buildings and beaches. You will be buying beers from the Asian
>companies. And you bet the Japanese men will have group tours all over the
>land of the Kangaroos buying your women, cheap! Already they are doing it!
Actually, in this country we do not own "our" women: you should not assume
that all cultures are the same as yours.
"Our" women do whatever they like, and they may even bed you too - only for
a fee, of course, as your dick is too small.
George
John Nash
>In article <kchooCH...@netcom.com>, kc...@netcom.com (Kenny Choo) says:
>>
>>Opposition Leader John Hewson said Australian exports, investment and jobs
>>were
>>at stake as a result of threatened trade bans by Malaysia in retaliation for
>>Keating's remarks.
>
>See, a litte arm-twisting doesn't hurt that much. Is it? :-))
By Hewson??? That jackass?? Forget it (see Aussies also criticise
other Aussies too).
--
cheers,
John (in Ottawa, Canada). "Yet-another-Aussie-in-exile".
"I'm not responsible..." Ian Gillan, Perfect Strangers, 1984.
Brendan Jones
> shit... crap... fucking... fucking... fucking... smartass... pissed...
> dickhead... fucking... shithead... scumbags... fuck... fuck... shit...
> bastards... bastards... shit...
It's interesting that such an advanced, well educated, and rational person
cannot discuss this issue without using profanity. I think that says more
about our friend than anything else.
> If the leader of the country has no respect whatsoever towards his
> neigboring countries policy, and went as far and childish as calling name
> in the Intl. arena, I guess nothing much can be expected from the people
Hmm... "recalictrance" is name calling?
It's interesting that the deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia, Abdullah Fadzil
Che Wan has claimed that "we have never belittled or made personal attacks on
any of the Australian leaders" when Malaysian MPs over the previous week have
called Mr Keating ill-bred, childish, a person with bad manners, an ex-convict
and a social discard. I can provide you with names, dates and references in
the Malaysian press if you wish.
At least now we know these sorts of comments are not personal attacks on the
leader of another nation, and if in the future Dr Mahatir is ever called
ill-bred, childish or a social discard we can be happy in the knowledge that
we are not insulting him, belittling him or making a personal attack.
> How can I discuss rationally with a pompous dickhead like you if your leader
> can't even give a simple example to respect other neigboring leaders in the
> region?
It seems that Dr Mahatir is handling this issue more rationally than you are,
and with more respect towards Australia than you're showing.
Dr Mahatir has not asked for an official apology and seems largely unconcerned
by this incident. It's only some of his MPs that need to shore up their
political base that are making it an issue.
You also didn't comment on President Soeharto of Indonesia saying in a press
release that he expects Dr Mahatir will attend the next APEC Leaders' Meeting
in Jakarta in 1994. Dr Mahatir won't snub Soeharto, and will attend the
meeting, as he's already made his point by non-attendance this time around.
> What stuck-up Kangaroo is Keating if he can't even give Mahathir a chance
> to explain why he refused to go to the APEC meeting?
He and Mahatir have discussed the issue on a number of occasions, and Mr
Keating is fully aware of his reasons for non-attendance. It doesn't change
the fact that his non-attendance was, for want of a better word, a display of
recalcitrance.
> I beg you, vote him out of the Parliament
That's not possible unless you happen to live in the electorate of Bankstown.
> Yeah..of course u don't give a shit because you and your ilks are the
> biggest selfish bastards in the history of mankind.
Your posts hardly exude a mature, well educated predisposition towards a
tolerance of other nations and cultures. You're not exactly making yourself
a good ambassador for your country.
Paul Smith
>
>See, the 21st century belongs to the Asians. The Asians are going to buy all
>your stocks, buildings and beaches. You will be buying beers from the Asian
>companies. And you bet the Japanese men will have group tours all over the
>land of the Kangaroos buying your women, cheap! Already they are doing it!
Interesting point really. I have a question though. If much of
Malaysia's economic boom is coming from overseas investment, what will
happen when foreign profit taking from Malaysia outstrips investment,
especially when the surging ringgit makes labour rates and export prices
internationally uncompetitive? Also, if foreign investment means that
much of the companies within Malaysia are actually foreign owned isn't
it just another case of white colonisation of asia, but this time with
the complete acquiesence of Malaysia?
Sorry, I can't resist this, but buying Asian beer???? I rather think
not. Australians (even our Kangaroos) brew better beer at home than
Malaysians brew in breweries. Also look at the most popular beers in
Malaysia: Tiger (Singapore), Tuborg (Denmark) and Guiness (Ireland). I
think you should look in your own back yard first because it has already
happened to you. Or are you going to be like the majority of Malaysians
I have met who actually think these breweries are Malaysian created and
owned?
Paul Smith
CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
things to show off? Haven't you heard that it is not the size that matter...
-AL
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
In article <1993Dec1.0...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, you say:
>>See, a litte arm-twisting doesn't hurt that much. Is it? :-))
>
>By Hewson??? That jackass?? Forget it (see Aussies also criticise
>other Aussies too).
So do I. I criticize the Malaysian Government too whenever appropriate.
So, what's your point?
-azlan nordin
Penn State
Faruq abd ul-Rafi
>It's interesting that the deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia, Abdullah Fadzil
>Che Wan has claimed that "we have never belittled or made personal attacks on
>any of the Australian leaders" when Malaysian MPs over the previous week have
>called Mr Keating ill-bred, childish, a person with bad manners, an ex-convict
>and a social discard. I can provide you with names, dates and references in
>the Malaysian press if you wish.
"Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia, Abdullah Fadzil Che Wan"? I think not.
Right now, Malaysia has no deputy prime minister--the old one quit and the
new one, Anwar Ibrahim, has yet to be officially appointed to the post.
Maybe Abdullah Fadzil Che Wan is a deputy minister in the Prime Minister's
Department?
Anyway, it would be interesting to see the "names, dates and references" that
you mentioned.
_____
Faruq abd ul-Rafi
>In article <2der5t$6...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
>Faruq abd ul-Rafi <fa...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>I don't recall ever seeing that much in the way of "Australian programs, news,
>>information and advertising" in Malaysia in the first place. How can the
>>Malaysian ban be anything more than symbolic? If the intention were really
>>to try to do harm to Australia, aren't there other products (e.g., beef) that
>>would make for a much more effective boycott?
>*** Good point, but what then, would you say is the primary
>objective/motive for PM's "behavior", reaction to this comment?
Actually, it seems that Mahathir is not the one doing the reacting. Most of
the noise is coming from UMNO Youth and people like Mohamad Rahmat. But it's
hard to tell whether they are fronting for Mahathir or they have their own
agenda.
>I mean could he be reacting for world-wide publicity, which he
>already has gotten (NYT, Washington Post, Economist, CNN, etc.)?
>If it is that publicity, what's the point? Many analysts in the
>west are treating this matter as "trivial" in the sense of
>dismissing Mahathir as "petty", etc.
Regardless of who is the main force behind all this--Mahathir or someone
else--I'm sure that the intended audience is more domestic than international.
If nothing else, the Malaysian government sees it as in its own interest to
reinforce in the minds of the Malaysian people a linkage between government
and media, so that Malaysia's own government-dominated media system doesn't
look all that out of place. That's why Malaysia complains to governments
about the actions of private media and bans private media as a way of
"punishing" governments.
>Do we Malaysians really
>cut that image out here in the west?
Well, I'm afraid that anyone whose primary exposure to Malaysians is through
the soc.culture.malaysia newsgroup would be likely to get that impression.
8-(
>And as another netter said, what about next years' meetings in
>Jakarta? Will Mahathir boycott that one too? I think not.
I'm sure Mahathir will find some way to turn this whole mess to his advantage.
>Which
>leaves us to specualate that maybe, just maybe, there was more
>in his boycott than meets the eye.
Like I said, it's still not clear that it's "his boycott." In fact, it's not
clear that there even IS a boycott--so far the Australian government has yet
to receive any official notification of it. And since, as I mentioned in
my original post, there really isn't that much of an Australian media
presence in Malaysia anyway, how would Malaysians know there was a boycott
on even if it were genuine? Aside from being told about it by Mohamad Rahmat
and friends, of course.
_____
Ron Seto
|> In article <kchooCH...@netcom.com>, kc...@netcom.com (Kenny Choo) says:
|> >
|> >Opposition Leader John Hewson said Australian exports, investment and jobs
|> >were
|> >at stake as a result of threatened trade bans by Malaysia in retaliation for
|> >Keating's remarks.
|>
|>
Don't get too excited about it (if you're not already). John Hewson, being the
economic rationalist he is, would understand that businesses would be very
concerned investing in a country that imposed trade bans for something that this
or that political leader said. John Hewson's playing a different game.
|> Stoopid...If he (Keating) was more careful earlier, all these self-made
|> nightmares would not have happened in the first place.
|>
And miss out on the entertainment?
|> Right John Nash? Brendan? and other Kangaroos?
|>
|> -azlan nordin
|> Penn State
BTW, is this part of the ALP's unstated `Know thy Neighbour' foreign policy?
'ooroo,
Ron Seto
School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics
Macquarie University
Mirek Popkowski
: ... I don't give the shit ...
: crap bragging ...
: ... a cry-baby ...
: ... American cry-baby ...
: ... Australian cry-baby ...
: ... two powerful
: clowns ...
: ...fucking
: stoopid Kangaroo... typical smartass, pompous,
: white caucasian ...
:... childish as calling name ...
:... pissed off ...
: ... a pompous dickhead like you ...
: ... fucking leader ...
: ... pompous shithead ...
: ... What stuck-up Kangaroo...
: ... stuck-up British
: scumbags ... bloodsucking bimbo ...
: ... Get the fuck out...
: ... cry-baby bimbo ...
: ... fuck off ...
: ... don't give a shit ...
: ... selfish bastards ...
: ... racist bastards ...
: ... like shit ...
: ... bloodsucking nations ...
: ... cry-baby behavior ...
: ... "Cry-Baby Uncle Sam"...
: ... kicking your ass ...
: ... kick your ass ...
: -azlan nordin
: Penn State
Calm down, mate. I think you are suffering from a severe case of
inferiority complex.
Mirek Popkowski
Stephen Lim at Dept of Physics,Nat U of S'pore
: In article <93333.030...@psuvm.psu.edu> <NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
: You may have to eat your words. President Soeharto of Indonesia released a
: press statement yesterday saying that he is fully confident that Dr Mahatir
: will attend the next APEC leaders' meeting in Jakarta in 1994.
: Somehow, I can't imagine Dr Mahatir will snub Soeharto. Not only are Malaysia
: and Indonesia realtively close, I understand the two men like and respect each
: other. Dr Mahatir will be there.
It was reported that an editorial of one of Indonesia papers didn't put
it to nicely concerning Dr.Mahatair recent absence at the APEC meeting..
--
***************************************************************************
* Stephen Lim | Keep your ears to the grindstone, your nose *
* National U of S'pore | to the ground, take the bull by the horns of*
* Lower Kent Ridge Rd | a dilemma, and stop mixing your metaphors! *
* Singapore 0511 | *
* ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *
* Internet : sci0...@leonis.nus.sg Bitnet : sci0...@nusvm.bitnet *
===========================================================================
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
(Brendan Jones) says:
>It's interesting that such an advanced, well educated, and rational person
>cannot discuss this issue without using profanity. I think that says more
>about our friend than anything else.
Sometimes, profanity is necessary. It is one way to get your point across.
It doesnot always work, but it is still a way to argue.....Anyway, I think
it is enuff for me to use profanity for now. You sound like a reasonable
person to discuss with :-)
>> If the leader of the country has no respect whatsoever towards his
>> neigboring countries policy, and went as far and childish as calling name
>> in the Intl. arena, I guess nothing much can be expected from the people
>
>Hmm... "recalictrance" is name calling?
The word itself is not name-calling, of course. But, if u call somebody
"recalcitrant", for me, it is a YES.
Look, never, ever judge people by your own standard (this is a disease that
infected many westerners - judging people by their own standard). For the
Australians, caling people "recalcitrant" or any other words of negative
connotation is probably nothing. But that is for Australian, not others.
In the international arena, your can't impose your own cultural standard on
others. It is insensitive and intolerance at best.
>It's interesting that the deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia, Abdullah Fadzil
>Che Wan has claimed that "we have never belittled or made personal attacks on
>any of the Australian leaders" when Malaysian MPs over the previous week have
>called Mr Keating ill-bred, childish, a person with bad manners, an ex-convict
>and a social discard. I can provide you with names, dates and references in
>the Malaysian press if you wish.
I think, that was the natural reaction of the Malaysian politicians as a
result of Keating's misbehavior. Look, if somebody hit you on the face first,
you hit em' back. No matter who wins or loses, the person who hit first is
guilty for starting the fight. Anyway, send me the names, dates and references
etc. about that MPs. Maybe I shoudl flame them too...:-)
>At least now we know these sorts of comments are not personal attacks on the
>leader of another nation, and if in the future Dr Mahatir is ever called
>ill-bred, childish or a social discard we can be happy in the knowledge that
>we are not insulting him, belittling him or making a personal attack.
There aer many ways to take an insult or personal attacks. Mahathir could
ignore it and he could also make a big deal out of it. This is all politics.
It is not absolute. I am making a big deal out of it because I have my own
interest and philosophy concerning world's politics.
>It seems that Dr Mahatir is handling this issue more rationally than you are,
>and with more respect towards Australia than you're showing.
Good for him.
>Dr Mahatir has not asked for an official apology and seems largely unconcerned
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>by this incident. It's only some of his MPs that need to shore up their
>political base that are making it an issue.
This is politics!!! If u think about it more carefully you will find out
why. Just envision that you are Mahathir, what will you do? If I were him,
I would just laugh and ignore Keating's remark. A boss has to maintain his
status, if not it will affect his image.
My previous postings attacking the Australians were not meant to defend
Mahathir. I have my own vision and ideas regarding world politics. The
Mahathir-Keating issue certainly gave me the golden opportunity to express
my ideas (anti-Western racism against Asians, superpower vs. third world
concept which I considered as the most disgusting concept of mental
colonialization by the westerners, etc.).
>You also didn't comment on President Soeharto of Indonesia saying in a press
>release that he expects Dr Mahatir will attend the next APEC Leaders' Meeting
>in Jakarta in 1994. Dr Mahatir won't snub Soeharto, and will attend the
>meeting, as he's already made his point by non-attendance this time around.
An expectation will always remain an expectation untill it is fulfilled.
Just wait and see. If Mahathir's demands are fulfilled and he believes that
the meeting will be fruitful for the benefit of all nations in the group, not
just the westerners, I don't see any reason for him not going to the meeting
next year. I beleived Mahathir wants "economic synergism" not "compromise".
>He and Mahatir have discussed the issue on a number of occasions, and Mr
>Keating is fully aware of his reasons for non-attendance. It doesn't change
>the fact that his non-attendance was, for want of a better word, a display of
>recalcitrance.
Why "recalcitrant"? Mahathir has the right not to go. And, nothing in the
world can challenge his right not to go. Keating knew this well, but why did
he make that bogus remark? Was it necessary to boost his image in the
international arena? Yes, probably this was the reason. But, unfortunately,
it was a bad judgement, and it backfired.
>Your posts hardly exude a mature, well educated predisposition towards a
>tolerance of other nations and cultures. You're not exactly making yourself
>a good ambassador for your country.
Tolerance? You want to tell me about tolerance?..hahahaha....you must be
kidding me....
The Asians are always tolerance to anybody especially to the western countries.
Unfortunately, you people (the Westerners) took our tolerance as an act
of inferiority. This is what really ticked me off!!!! How can we
(the Asians) tolerate this kind of attitude? You people don't even respect
us, then how the hell do you expect us to respect you? The period of
colonialization is long over, the westerners have to learn that fact. We
Asians are proud people with dignity and pride, we always bear the unbearable
when necessary, and if you people want to deal with us in anything, learn to
respect us (the Asians).
To tell you the truth, you people are the ones that need to understand what
tolerance is, not us. We (the Asians) know the meaning of the word "tolerance"
even before the word was introduced in the English Dictionary. So, don't tell
me to be tolerance!!! Tolerance is in every culture in Asia (Malay, Chinese,
Indian, and other ethnic groups in the continent).
The Asians have been waiting for western tolerance towards their cultures for
centuries. So, until you people learn and understand the word "tolerance", we
will never get anywhere in the international and wordl politics except more
misunderstandings and wars. Look, the ball is in your (the westerners)
court.....play the game fair and square, purge your racist attitude and
prejudice towards Asians. Until then, we will never achieve "synergism"
in anything.
This is my last posting about this issue. No apology offered for my
previous postings.
-azlan nordin
Penn State
WADE H.W. CHIA
>In article <93333.114...@psuvm.psu.edu> <NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>[.. Azlan's song of racial hatred was here...]
>>So stoopid. Arguing with you really reduced my IQ for a minute.
>
>Azlan, zero divided by any number is still zero.
Huh? Reducing=dividing? I think the cumulative effects of years
of barbie-smoke and UV rays have done their work on your Aussie brain.
W
"Yes, Yes!! This has been a meaningless exercise in gratuitous flaming"
WADE H.W. CHIA
Azlan might be a tad unpleasant in his language but your harping on
his writing errors is just irritating. May I remind you that
English is a second lang. to most of us? Why don't you try posting
in your second language, you *do* know a second language, don't you?
Stop being a prick, Sinclair. This is getting boring.
John Nash
>
>In article <1993Dec1.0...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, you say:
>
>>>See, a litte arm-twisting doesn't hurt that much. Is it? :-))
>>
>>By Hewson??? That jackass?? Forget it (see Aussies also criticise
>>other Aussies too).
>
>So do I. I criticize the Malaysian Government too whenever appropriate.
>So, what's your point?
My point is that I made an inflammatory statement based on a personal
political viewpoint about a senior Australian politician, and (so far)
haven't received a single tear-stained note from any s.c.a readers
demanding a retraction, or flaming me for my efforts.
Granted, some of them looked at the post and thought "ALP arsehole",
but they were politically mature enough not to get phased by it. That
tends to be our way of life.
CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
<NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>My previous postings attacking the Australians were not meant to defend
>Mahathir. I have my own vision and ideas regarding world politics. The
>Mahathir-Keating issue certainly gave me the golden opportunity to express
>my ideas (anti-Western racism against Asians, superpower vs. third world
>concept which I considered as the most disgusting concept of mental
>colonialization by the westerners, etc.).
for? Anyway, look like the game is over. No more cheerleading work for me.
See, I'm one of you now. Unemployed. But look at the bright side, you still
have a bullet-proof welfare system to parasitize on. Look what have I got?
So, cheer up! Drink a few Foster beer and see if the earth can move fast
enough to put Australia in Europe. Enjoy while you still can.
>This is my last posting about this issue. No apology offered for my
>previous postings.
-AL
>
>-azlan nordin
> Penn State
Lucas Adamski
Well, I wouldn't put it quite so kindly. Maybe he just needs his ass kicked.
//Lucas.
- There's only one way to deal with jerks... treat em like jerks.
Lucas Adamski
>My previous postings attacking the Australians were not meant to defend
>Mahathir. I have my own vision and ideas regarding world politics. The
>Mahathir-Keating issue certainly gave me the golden opportunity to express
>my ideas (anti-Western racism against Asians, superpower vs. third world
>concept which I considered as the most disgusting concept of mental
>colonialization by the westerners, etc.).
"anti-Western racism against Asians"... hmm... my, that's an interesting one...
lesse... that's racism aimed against Asians who are 'westernized'? Or
something? Anyway, this concept of 'mental colonialization' you've come up
with is quite interesting, except for one problem... the receiving cultures
have to accept the 'foreign' culture... and frankly, from what I've seen of the
world, cultures are mixing and adapting from each other just about everywhere.
Is this what you're afraid of?
>Why "recalcitrant"? Mahathir has the right not to go. And, nothing in the
>world can challenge his right not to go. Keating knew this well, but why did
>he make that bogus remark? Was it necessary to boost his image in the
>international arena? Yes, probably this was the reason. But, unfortunately,
>it was a bad judgement, and it backfired.
Mahathir would have the right to do what ever he wants if he were not the
leader of a nation. Since he is, if he just 'does what ever he wants' it
doesn't say much for his sense of responsiblity.
>>Your posts hardly exude a mature, well educated predisposition towards a
>>tolerance of other nations and cultures. You're not exactly making yourself
>>a good ambassador for your country.
>
>Tolerance? You want to tell me about tolerance?..hahahaha....you must be
>kidding me....
>
>The Asians are always tolerance to anybody especially to the western countries.
>Unfortunately, you people (the Westerners) took our tolerance as an act
>of inferiority. This is what really ticked me off!!!! How can we
>(the Asians) tolerate this kind of attitude? You people don't even respect
>us, then how the hell do you expect us to respect you? The period of
>colonialization is long over, the westerners have to learn that fact. We
>Asians are proud people with dignity and pride, we always bear the unbearable
>when necessary, and if you people want to deal with us in anything, learn to
>respect us (the Asians).
Oh I see... since your ancestors were wronged, it now give you the right to
act like a jackass. Not. Judging by your constant use of 'you people', and
we (the Asians), you must be one hell of a racist. What give YOU the right to
make a mindless a statement as "You people don't even respect us". I don't
respect people any more or less because of their race, country, hair color or
anything. There is only one thing... ONE THING that determines the amount of
respect someone gets from me, and that's how they ACT! I believe it what goes
around comes around. I've seen assholes of all races and colors, and heroes
of all races and colors. Judging by the way you are acting, guess which
category you fall into.
>To tell you the truth, you people are the ones that need to understand what
>tolerance is, not us. We (the Asians) know the meaning of the word "tolerance"
>even before the word was introduced in the English Dictionary. So, don't tell
>me to be tolerance!!! Tolerance is in every culture in Asia (Malay, Chinese,
>Indian, and other ethnic groups in the continent).
>
>The Asians have been waiting for western tolerance towards their cultures for
>centuries. So, until you people learn and understand the word "tolerance", we
>will never get anywhere in the international and wordl politics except more
>misunderstandings and wars. Look, the ball is in your (the westerners)
>court.....play the game fair and square, purge your racist attitude and
>prejudice towards Asians. Until then, we will never achieve "synergism"
>in anything.
I love this... you accuse the entire... umm... 'group'? of Westerners of being
racist and prejudiced towards Asians. And then you say that we have to change.
Gee, ain't it just GREAT to meet someone who knows just SOOO much about me?
>This is my last posting about this issue. No apology offered for my
>previous postings.
I wouldn't have accepted it anyway. Its actions, not excuses that count.
>-azlan nordin
> Penn State
//Lucas.
Paul Leong
Hi.... Having a good laugh at all this commotion...... and just wanted to put
my 2 cents in.... hahahaha....
> The Malay, Chinese and other ethnic groups want to live in real
>harmony, not the pseudo one created by the Brits. And, of course, we have
>to work on it like hell.
Live in harmony....... Yeah right.... This net is suppose to be inhabited by
intellectuals from educational institutions around the world.... yeah.... and
for our next trick.....
>Criticism? What criticism are you blurting about? Keatings remark on
>Mahathir was a criticism? Man, what century are we in now?
Hey... Keating was being nice.... Think about it.... Mahathir was boycotting
the summit because he wants to set up his own little Asian trade group with
the SUCCESSFUL nations in asia and exclude some other nations..... of which
America and Australia IS excluded..... Think about it..... What would Mahathir
do if Malaysia was isolated from the world because of its human rights issues?
Or race.... or creed.... or culture.... or just on the type of car you
drive....
>It was a cry-baby kind of outburst only the Australians and Americans can
>manage it.
You serious..... Americans have seen financial successes Malaysians haven't
begun to understand..... And their politics and philosophies have come from
200+ years of experience...... Yes... everycountry has their facinating
historical past....
>Where is your pride as a White Caucasian? Where is your superiority?
Well... that's the wrong attitude..... isn't it.... If we are to learn from
history.... you'd see that empires, nations and great men fall because of
arrogant attitudes.....
>The American cry-baby attitude toward the Japanese regarding the trade
>imbalance, and the Australian cry-baby attitude about Mahathir's refusal to
>go to the APEC meeting reflect the emergence of two powerful clowns in
>shaping the new world order in the 21st century!!!!
Yeah right..... Who was the cry baby to start with......
The person who boycotts a meeting - ie: not ever trying to talk about the
situation OR the person who criticises the person who boycotts....
err...
A philosophical question for all :
Which is wiser.....
The wise person who learns from his/her mistakes
OR
The wise person who learns from other's mistakes.....
>My main concern was not the word itself, but the attitude of your fucking
>stoopid Kangaroo, Keating.
Reduced to cursing.... hmmmm..... intellectuals are we..??..
>Unfortunately, this typical smartass, pompous,
>white caucasian is the leader of your country Australia. If the leader of
>the country has no respect whatsoever towards his neigboring countries policy,
>and went as far and childish as calling name in the Intl. arena, I guess
>nothing much can be expected from the people (including you).
I have to admit that the Australians have a problem about keeping their hands
out of other people's business.... BUT....
What if YOU were black in South Africa....
What is YOU were the people invaded by Indonesia in East Timor...
What if YOU or YOUR relatives were killed in Tianamen....
etc...etc.... the list goes on....
Facinating thing this CIVILISATION......
>I think you are the one who got pissed off with my postings (heheheee..)
HAHAHA.... Hey this is better than any WWF match.... hehe..... And I thought
they were mindless.... hehehe...
>>pounding all sorts of angry responses, insults, flames, etc. When
>>you've calmed down (If?), we'll all sit down and discuss this
>>rationally.
Hehehe... that'll be a first.....
>How can I discuss rationally with a pompous dickhead like you if your leader
>can't even give a simple example to respect other neigboring leaders in the
>region?
tut...tut..... reduced to swearing again..... intellectuals are we....
hmmmm.....
>What fucking leader is Keating if he can't even control his emotion
>and discuss about the issue rationally?
More swearing.... is this rated R yet???...... hehehe... not suitable for
children.....
> What pompous shithead is Keating if
>he can't even agree to disagree with a small matter like that? What stuck-up
>Kangaroo is Keating if he can't even give Mahathir a chance to explain why
>he refused to go to the APEC meeting?
Every economist KNOWS why he didn't go to the meeting..... Words are words....
and humans should be a higher lifeform to rise above words.....
Think about it......
How do animals communicate anger...... Dogs show their teeth and they have a
fight......
Baboons have a howling match and then have a fight.....
Chickens cockel and raise their feathers and then proceed to kill each
other....
Animals communicate and proceed to kill each other..... Humans communicate and
what???.... proceed to ..... yeah right..... real intelligent species..... of
HIGHER BEINGS.......
>These questions shouldn't have come out in the first place if Keating has
>the calibre to lead your country. I beg you John, vote him out of the
>Parliament, give the Aborigine the opportunity of the lifetime to lead your
>nation for once!!!!
Yeah right..... Malaysia has a really good political track record..... lets
call it semi-aparthide..... At least we CAN vote Keating out of office.....
heheh..
>Ok..it was political. We did not like those pompous, stuck-up British
>scumbags products, that's not to mentioned that bloodsucking bimbo,
>Maggie Thatcher. You have any problem with that?
more swearing...... I'm begining to be doubtful of the maturity and
intellectual level here....... maybe I should go and watch some WWF....
>Of course, Maggie Thatcher came to Malaysia to discuss about that issue.
>The first cry-baby bimbo that Malaysia had ever experienced. Nonetheless,
>we still "Buy The British Last". It is our right as an independent nation.
>Respect that or fuck off!!!!
So you would make a decision. And regardless its correct or incorrect you
would not even discuss about it..... Yup... lets reduce ourselves back to the
stoneage......
>>You're right... I live in North America and don't give a shit. You
>>can go on and tell me how ignorant that is, but as I said, it doesn't
>>really affect me so I don't give a shit. As long as it's cheap and it
NOW... That's the wrong attitude again... where is this kind of attitude going
to get the human race.....
>Yeah..of course u don't give a shit because you and your ilks are the
>biggest selfish bastards in the history of mankind.
Well... here's a classic case of self contradiction..... Think about it....
you've just asked the whole world to respect your choices..... and now
you're SWEARING about someone elses...... sigh..... Get my drift.... yet?
>Couldn't agree with u more...But, of course we will never get along with
>those racist bastards that try to exploit the Asians since the beginning
>of time. The legacy of the colonialization era!!!
Sign... more swearing... think about it..... here you are criticizing
Americans about Slavery?? right.... and Malaysia has a semi-aparthide
political structure...... I can see the hands draggin' on the
ground.....hehehe..
>Of course I followed the NAFTA stuff. I am sure that Mexico will be
>exploited like shit by the Americans and the Canadians. I pity them,
>being surrounded by two internationally known bloodsucking nations.
Yeah... right..... here Malaysia wants to isolate the successful nations in
Asia from the less successful nations in Asia and the world, and you are
saying Americans want to exploit Mexico.... yeah right.....
How many Chinese were killed in less than adequate working conditions for how
much money a month in China...... How many people died in Thailand for that
fire????
>Probably, Malaysia wil have a hard time to compete with teh Japanese, Korea,
>Taiwan, etc. But, I am sure not the N.Americans and Europeans. With the
>current cry-baby behavior of the Americans regarding the trade imbalance
>between them and the Japanese, I forsee an easy competition.
Interestingly enough... I agree with you..... but the fact remains that... AT
LEAST they are talking about it.....
>Americans are
>dangerously confused with what competition is all about. Every foreign
>policies they formulated ended up with more ever increasingly trade deficit.
>Then, they blamed the problems on the Japanese.Very funny ain't it? That's why
>I called America a "Cry-Baby Uncle Sam".
Think about it.... its the people ( not even on internet - intellectual
society ) that are crying about it.... not the government.....
Think about it.... its the PEOPLE who buy products not the government......
So who's to blame for trade imbalances..... sigh......
>And, I don't see any problems with that "Pseudo-Peace Crusader" and the
>brethren of yours, Uncle "Old Horse" either.
Why.... that's better than "recalcitrant...." hehehe.....
>With the current percentage
>of Asian students (approx. 50%-60%) pursuing the advanced degrees in this
>country and Malaysians are among the top (number of students), I don't see
>any problems in kicking your ass in 20 years.
Didn't you say that arrogance in Americans in the past was the thing that
reduced them to less than human??? sigh....... what are you now???
Ever heard about...."POT" and "KETTLE"......
>Of course, the rise of Anti-
>Asians-Neo-Nazis in Europe and similar trend in N. America and Canada will
>tremendously help us kick your ass even sooner. Look you people are
>experiencing the Deja Vu of the modern Dark Age only the Europeans know best.
more swearing and arrogance....... Someone did say that being humble is the
greatest test of the human race.....
Someone once said.....
"Know thyself......"..... do you???
>>Over to you, Mr Nordin.
>Over to you, Mr. Nash John.
Oops.... is this a private conversation in lower life forms..... hehehe.....
Finally.....
Think about it people..... We're here for 60 years ave..... is a bit of give
and take sooooo hard?.... maybe a bit of understanding sometimes.....
a little care..... a bit of thinking more.... trying to understand other's
points of view and culture...... a bit of forgiving..... maybe even a bit of
love......
Finally...... what about the saying.... "Do onto others, as you would have
them do onto you..."..
And to disprove any myth.....
I'm Chinese.... from Malaysian.... studying is Australia.... I don't watch
WWF... I'm not religous although I do believe in the philosophies of ALL
religions...
BUT... I do just spend a bit more time to think before doing things.....
especially on the consequences on other people..... because I do let my
concience guide my ways somewhat..... It saves eating humble pie....
( BTW... the more arrogant - usually the bigger the humble pie... )
And.......... what about our children........ ( although I don't have any as
yet... )... what kind of world do we want to give them.....
Sigh.......
Paul......
Disclaimer : All that stuff is my own..... my very own.....
Adam Eberbach
: to. In other words, if you expect anyone to take you seriously, you should
: at least sound like you graduated high school.
Precisely. Especially if you are putting yourself forward as some kind
of "superior" Malaysian, here to teach some "stoooppid Kanggaros" a
lesson. It's easy for "Bunweasel" and others to pick out four words
from a post, and ignore the rest, but it doesn't accomplish much.
SUHAIMI, MANSOR
><NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>
>Your grammar and spelling is right up SHIT CREEK!!!!!!!!
>
>
>Dhillon.
>
Eowwww!!! Where did you come from? Us multilinguals have problems with
Grammar since none are fully compatible with each other
Btw, wipe that lumpy, brownie, smelly stuff off your nose.
Suhaimi Mansor
SUHAIMI, MANSOR
><NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> >This Ian Sinclair probably doesn't know what "apartheid" means. Check the
> >disctionary will you? So, fucking stoopid...
>
>Five spelling/grammar errors in two lines. Impressive, but your compatriots
>probably don't appreciate gibbering idiots from psu attempting to be
>ambassadors for their country.
>
>
>--
> Iain Sinclair axo...@socs.uts.edu.au
Huh? running out of ammo already? Mudslinging now? Oh well.....
Another guy with lumpy, brownie, smelly stuff on the nose.
p/s:- Sorry SCM guys, I couldn't stay away.......
SUHAIMI, MANSOR
>bm...@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu (Munirah Alatas) writes:
> >Decades of colonialism has taught us to
> >learn the hard way. We have come of age.
>
>Centuries of colonialism has taught us not to grovel to people
>who don't deserve it, too.
Oh those poor Aborigines!
SUHAIMI, MANSOR
>In article <CHAr6...@hatch.socal.com>
>b...@hatch.socal.com (Brendan Jones) writes:
>
>>>So stoopid. Arguing with you really reduced my IQ for a minute.
>>
>>Azlan, zero divided by any number is still zero.
>
>Okay, I take that back. An idiot probably doesn't know that. But don't they
>teach that to you in the middle school? I wonder.
>
>-AL
They probably don't teach fractal mechanics Down Under:-|)
Suhaimi Mansor
Lucas Adamski
>In article <2dj7ka$n...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, osp...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas
>Adamski) says:
>
>As I said, I am not going to discuss about Mahathir-Keating issue. So, I will
>keep my words. But, this is a slightly different issue (racism) that need to
>be addressed.....
>
>>"anti-Western racism against Asians"... hmm... my, that's an interesting
>>one...
>>lesse... that's racism aimed against Asians who are 'westernized'? Or
>
>Asians-racist-pigs, but not to the Asians.
Nor to me. So why bring it up?
>Tell me what your leaders have
>done to curb the rising trend of anti-Asians racism in the Europes and America
>and also in Australia?
I don't know. There is hardly a simple way to 'fix' such a problem. In such
a situation, a government doesn't have any power except to declare everyone
equal and pass laws against discrimination... of course, they could pass laws
against racial violence, but then that would be racial legislation. Racism
has always been a problem in countries which receive a large amount of
immigrants... the current society undergoes considerable stress, because
people seem to forget that when a large influx a immigrants arrives, the
current society CHANGES. Becomes something else. Of course this does not
justify in any way racial violence, but Asia as a rule has not had to deal with
large waves of immigrants. You can bet your life that if Japan, or Korea, or
what ever country suddenly received say a million refugees from the former
Yugoslavia, there would be racial problems. The color of your skin does not
make you immune to racism.
>You people, yes...YOU PEOPLE talked too much to end racism on your continents,
>but I have seen nothing until now. In fact, more and more news about killings
>of the Asians. Maybe the Asians should stoop that low and kill all whities
>dwelling in Asia in order to achieve synergism in the region.
Uh-huh... all whites WANT to kill all Asians, Oz is at the end of the rainbow,
and all monsters live in Mideon. Geez, you are one hell of a racist. Tell
me, when you look at a person... a WHITE person... do you say "There goes a
person" or "there goes a White Racism Neo-Nazi... whatever the rest was".
>>something? Anyway, this concept of 'mental colonialization' you've come up
>>with is quite interesting, except for one problem... the receiving cultures
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>have to accept the 'foreign' culture... and frankly, from what I've seen of
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>the
>>world, cultures are mixing and adapting from each other just about everywhere.
>>Is this what you're afraid of?
>
>This is racist, insensitive and intolerant at best. The "receiving culture
>have to accept the foreign culture"? What is this? You talked too much about
>cultures everywhere on this planet are mixing and adapting, but yet you dwelled
>upon the very idea that "the receivng culture have to accept the foreign
>culture". Aren't you contradicting yourself? I guess so...Lucas, I have seen
>so much of these contradicting point of views of yours, and I see no different
>from those hypocritical neo-Nazi views.
Bloody hell, you don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about. And call me
a Nazi one more time and I'll call you a Communist and then we'll have
Typical American Argument #4. What I am saying, is that you claim that
the Western culture is trying to take over and destroy native cultures. The
point is, when the foreign culture comes knocking, in the form of TV programs,
music, etc et al the culture on the receiving end has the choice whether it
wants to accept that foreign element INTO its own culture. Where the hell did
I say that the foreign culture REPLACES the native one? Cultures ultimately
choose (except in the case of armed occupation) which elements of a foreign
culture they wish to accept into their culture. As an example, the Jews in
Europe kept their faith and way of existance... they're culture... alive in
a sea of Christian European culture. They COULD easily have accepted the
Christian doctorines, but they chose not too. You really do have an extremely
narrow minded and destructive view of cultural interaction.
>Nope. I am not afraid of mixing my culture with others. In fact, that's what
>I am trying to do or at least expect in the Malaysians society. The problem
>is that when mixing the cultures, you people tend to impose your cultural
>standards on ours. Don't you think, you are the one that should adjust your
>culture to the local ones? Afterall, you are the one who comes to trade with
>us in the SEA regions, etc. Every country has its customs and policies
>reagrding trade etc. that you need to adjust, not the other way around. If we
>want to deal with you in the USA or Europe, we follow your customs and policies
>right? So, expect the same thing if u want to deal with us in our turfs. Is
>it too much to ask?
Why should we adjust our culture to match anything? Beauty is in variety, and
it will be very interesting to see how Australia and NZ develop, being former
western colonies in Asia. And I'm sick to puking of your 'you people' crap.
How the bloody fucking hell do you know how I act in a foreign country? How
in hell can you ASSUME that I show no respect in a foreign country? You are
one ARROGANT sob.
>>Mahathir would have the right to do what ever he wants if he were not the
>>leader of a nation. Since he is, if he just 'does what ever he wants' it
>>doesn't say much for his sense of responsiblity.
>
>What make u think Mahathir has no sense of responsibility? Elaborate this
>in detail.....I don't see ur points.
I mean that he must put his petty feelings on the side and do his job. Sure,
maybe he got HIS message through, but can you honestly say that Malaysia is
better off now that it missed a chance to have its say in the conference?
>>Oh I see... since your ancestors were wronged, it now give you the right to
>>act like a jackass. Not. Judging by your constant use of 'you people', and
>
>Yes, I am a jackass to people like you who don't know didley about tolerance
>and respect to others. But, yet has the face to talk abt. them..Bah Hambug!!
*sigh* Oh yes, I forget... you know ALL about me. Uh-huh... you don't know
me.. at all. You don't know how tolerant I am, you don't know how respectful
I am. As a matter of fact, I'm taking a Korean martial art right now, and I
bet I know a hell of a lot more about showing respect than you do. As for
tolerance, after having grown up in three different countries, I know plenty
about tolerance. And I know how to recognise a jerk too. And you are one
hell of a jerk. You know nothing about me, yet you just go ahead and make
such a completely inane statement as above. Based upon what? Your
preconceived racial stereotype that you shoved me into. How on earth can you
even CLAIM to be remotely tolerant when you cannot even treat someone as a
human being, rather than just a convenient stereotype you came up with. You
would be amusing if you weren't so incredibly dense.
>>we (the Asians), you must be one hell of a racist. What give YOU the right to
>>make a mindless a statement as "You people don't even respect us". I don't
>>respect people any more or less because of their race, country, hair color or
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>anything. There is only one thing... ONE THING that determines the amount of
>
>That's what the skinhead-neo-nazi-racist-pigs in this country said all the
>time. But, in reality?
They do? REALLY? Wow.. and I always thought they just walked around and
said "We wanna kill all non-whites". What do you know about reality? You
don't even know me in the least bit. You wouldn't know reality if it came
along and kicked your teeth in. Enjoy your little dream world with your
nice black and white, bad and good stereotypes... enjoy it while it lasts.
Cause one day it'll blow up right in your face, and then you'll really
look stupid.
>>respect someone gets from me, and that's how they ACT! I believe it what goes
>>around comes around. I've seen assholes of all races and colors, and heroes
>>of all races and colors. Judging by the way you are acting, guess which
>>category you fall into.
>
>So do I. I have seen all assholes of all races and colors as well as the
>heroes. Judging by the way you are acting, I am sure your are the one of the
>NO-ACTION-TALK-ONLY person concerning the inter-relatinships between races on
>this planet. With that, in what category do you think you fall into?
Oh gee, well if you think that I'm a NO-ACTION-TALK-ONLY type, then I must be.
After all, you know me so much better than I do. And plus, if I was no action
all talk, then I really wouldn't have replied to your inane posts would I?
What do you expect me to do? Spew my entire life history out for you to poke
through? Get real. I don't need to justify myself to you or anyone else...
I know who and what I am. I've had friends from all over the world, and I've
shown them exactly what they showed me... respect. You expect me to respect
you? You come along, spewing racial dogma and idiotic stereotypes every which
way, and you honestly expect respect? You want respect? You do what every
other person out there who has lost it does... you earn it back. You want
action? Well, if I ever bump into you, I'll show you exactly what I do to
racists like yourself.
>>I love this... you accuse the entire... umm... 'group'? of Westerners of being
>>racist and prejudiced towards Asians. And then you say that we have to
>>change.
>>Gee, ain't it just GREAT to meet someone who knows just SOOO much about me?
>
>I have enuff info to write books about Western prejudice towards Asians
>since the beginning of time in almost every aspects of life (politics,
>economics, etc.). I will write the books when the time comes. In the meantime
>read this book by Shintaro Ishihara entitled "The Japan That Can Say No".
Racism is a personal matter... you accuse an entire country or race of being
racist, you insult every person in that race. There is no decree that can
change that, only understanding and respect can. Nice to see you're on the
right track.
>You probably won't get anything from it, but at least educate yourself about
>the issue before we discuss further. I hate discussing issue of this magnitude
>with an ignoramus, mind you.
*YAWN* Grow up.
>>>This is my last posting about this issue. No apology offered for my
>>>previous postings.
>>
>>I wouldn't have accepted it anyway. Its actions, not excuses that count.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>My...my...my.....Just look who is talking.......
Oh really. Well, lets hear your nice long listing of accompishments, shall we?
//Lucas.
Gregory A. Haverkamp
diplomati.. NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu (5424)
> >"anti-Western racism against Asians"... hmm... my, that's an interesting
> >one...
> >lesse... that's racism aimed against Asians who are 'westernized'? Or
> Yes, very interesting indeed. Interesting to the neo-nazi-skinnhead-anti-
> Asians-racist-pigs, but not to the Asians.
So, as I read this, I couldn't help but wondering if Azlan is reading
and understanding the messages prior to responding. It seems that he
has very plainly missed the point the original author was trying to make
in this case.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia: 1-Dec-93 Re: Mahatir spurs
diplomati.. NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu (5424)
> Tell me what your leaders have
> done to curb the rising trend of anti-Asians racism in the Europes and America
> and also in Australia?
It's hardly the job of the leaders to curb anti-anyone racism. It's the
job of the people.
What I find most humorous are the very real parallels that can be drawn
concerning racism in Malayisa, where certainly a great deal exists.
Anyone who thinks that the Bumi privileges do not have profound effects
on the others seem to be fooling themselves. While the press can preach
of the racial harmony that exists, all one needs to do is work around
Indian- and Chinese- Malaysians to know that that is not so. (And I
did, for two years.)
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia:
> You people, yes...YOU PEOPLE talked too much to end racism on your continents,
> but I have seen nothing until now.
And see, remarks get little more racist than this. Azlan loves to speak
of "you" and "us", with both categories based upon race. No wonder he's
so angry. He's carrying a lot of people around with him.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia:
> In fact, more and more news about killings
> of the Asians. Maybe the Asians should stoop that low and kill all whities
> dwelling in Asia in order to achieve synergism in the region.
Well, there were several whites killed while I lived in Malaysia. In
fact, one family was massacred (2 small children and their mother). The
fact that this was carried out by an Asian did not make me lash out at
Asians. Why does the fact that whites somewhere in the world kill
Asians make all of those racial attacks?
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia:
> This is racist, insensitive and intolerant at best. The "receiving culture
> have to accept the foreign culture"? What is this? You talked too much about
> cultures everywhere on this planet are mixing and adapting, but yet you dwelled
> upon the very idea that "the receivng culture have to accept the foreign
> culture". Aren't you contradicting yourself?
Once again, Azlan must be having a difficult time parsing that
statements that are being made.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia:
> The problem
> is that when mixing the cultures, you people tend to impose your cultural
> standards on ours.
There we go... "you people"
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia:
> Don't you think, you are the one that should adjust your
> culture to the local ones?
Not necessarily. In my home in Malaysia, should I have felt obligated
to remove my shoes? No. Should I have felt obligated to eat only the
local food, and leave the Western food on the shelves at the store? No.
Nor, I'm sure, have you been pushed to give up any parts of your culture
that you have brought to the U.S.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia:
> Afterall, you are the one who comes to trade with
> us in the SEA regions, etc. Every country has its customs and policies
> reagrding trade etc. that you need to adjust, not the other way around.
And, of course, those must be done. And they are, I can assure you.
Perhaps you need to learn a little more about international trade law.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia:
> If we
> want to deal with you in the USA or Europe, we follow your customs and policies
> right? So, expect the same thing if u want to deal with us in our turfs. Is
> it too much to ask?
It's not, and again, it's what's done.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia:
> Yes, I am a jackass to people like you who don't know didley about tolerance
> and respect to others. But, yet has the face to talk abt. them..Bah Hambug!!
I am a little confused about who has the knowledge of tolerance and
respect for others. Surely, you're not implying that you do.
Greg
_____________________
Greg Haverkamp -- gh...@andrew.cmu.edu, diet...@cmu.edu
Industrial Management - '94
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
"Sometimes I think life is just a rodeo. The trick is to ride and make
it to the bell." John Fogerty, "Rock and Roll Girls"
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
Adamski) says:
[stuffs deleted]
Just read the book by Shintaro Ishihara "The Japan That Can Say No". Until
then, I guess you and I will keep on arguing about this forever. Read that
book and see what justification can u make about racism in the world
poltics, economics, etc. Look, before you keep on blurting about yourself
etc., let me put this straight, I am talking about a nation/country as a
whole, not a certain individual (which u obviouslyassumed it as YOU). Not
a pretty good judgement, I must say....Anyway, this is my reply.
>Bloody hell, you don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about. And call me
>a Nazi one more time and I'll call you a Communist and then we'll have
>Typical American Argument #4. What I am saying, is that you claim that
>the Western culture is trying to take over and destroy native cultures. The
You bloody hell did not know what I was trying to convey too. Read that book
for god sake. Find it in the library or something. I am getting tired of
arguing with you about this beacuse it is going too far from my original
objective.
I didn't write my previous postings just for the
sake of writing them. It si more than that. You are taking all the things
I wrote as if they were all about you. It's the nation/country that I was
talking about, not an individual isolated cases.
>point is, when the foreign culture comes knocking, in the form of TV programs,
>music, etc et al the culture on the receiving end has the choice whether it
>wants to accept that foreign element INTO its own culture. Where the hell did
>I say that the foreign culture REPLACES the native one? Cultures ultimately
>choose (except in the case of armed occupation) which elements of a foreign
>culture they wish to accept into their culture. As an example, the Jews in
>Europe kept their faith and way of existance... they're culture... alive in
>a sea of Christian European culture. They COULD easily have accepted the
>Christian doctorines, but they chose not too. You really do have an extremely
>narrow minded and destructive view of cultural interaction.
I wish this is the case all the time. But, it is not actually true.
Anyway, read that book again...I don't want to spoil your fun of reading
that book. Pay attention on how the Americans pressured the Japanese to change
their corporate policies and philosophies (traditionally linked to the Japanese
culture), and see why i said the Westerners are asking too much when dealing
with teh Asians (in this case the Japanese). Even the powerful Japanese has to
follow the westreners direction, I could not even imagine other Asian
countries.
Do you think this is fair or not? Just a simple YES or NO.
>How the bloody fucking hell do you know how I act in a foreign country? How
>in hell can you ASSUME that I show no respect in a foreign country? You are
>one ARROGANT sob.
You are ARROGANT too dude. Somebody has asked me before to calm down
(actually, Penn State asked me to calm down..hehehe...). Now, why don't
you calm down too dude....
>I mean that he must put his petty feelings on the side and do his job. Sure,
>maybe he got HIS message through, but can you honestly say that Malaysia is
>better off now that it missed a chance to have its say in the conference?
Yes, for now. FInd out yourself the reason why Mahathir did not go to the
meeting. Until then, don't argue with me about this....It is funny to see
you argue with me about this without knwoing the political and economical
reasons behind it. If you do know, then tell me what is it. So, I will know
whether you are in the same frame of reference as mind or not.
[ stuffs deleted]
>They do? REALLY? Wow.. and I always thought they just walked around and
>said "We wanna kill all non-whites". What do you know about reality? You
Know enuff about it after reading some political books written by non-western
authors regarding racism in the international arena (politics and economics.
Look buddy, you are against me because u think I am a racist. I am against
the westerners which I think did not do anything about racism against the
Asians (leave alone the hard-core racist thermselves). Don't you think, you're
barking at a wrong tree? Don't you think, we have a common enemy. Look, you
have been barking soooo loud lately that I am a racist, but yet you did not
even attack those neo-nazi-skinheads all over this country. The only thing
you said was that "racism is a personal matter". So, that means for the
skinhead it is a personal matter. Is it killing all those non-whites a
personal matter? I am getting confused now unless you explain to me what
the heck do you want......
>don't even know me in the least bit. You wouldn't know reality if it came
>along and kicked your teeth in. Enjoy your little dream world with your
>nice black and white, bad and good stereotypes... enjoy it while it lasts.
>Cause one day it'll blow up right in your face, and then you'll really
>look stupid.
Read the book I mentioned and educate yourself a bit about what I was
trying to convey.
>action? Well, if I ever bump into you, I'll show you exactly what I do to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>racists like yourself.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this a threat? This is getting scary huh? Korean martial arts?
Come on, you can do better than that, can you? Anyway, I don't mind bumping
into you. I don't think you will do anything to me . If u want to solve
this problem on the street, well I guess I have no choice then. Need to
sharpen my Malay-Indo martial art too then :-)
Come on, grow up a little will you? Insults and profanity are part of
discussing and arguing things. But, threatening me is surely even worst
than my insult towards the westerners. Even the skinhead did not get
threatened like this. In fact they have the chance to express their view
on TV over here in America. In fact their views are even worst than mine.
But, they stil have the chance to express their views and not only that it
is on TV nationwide. Now, do I have that chance? The chance that the governt
of the USA given to the skinhead. Nooooo....When I wrote something obscene,
you jumped up sooo quick to shut me up and even threaten me. What is this?
Where is the tolerance? Where is the right of expressing my opinion as an
Asian in this country?
>Racism is a personal matter... you accuse an entire country or race of being
>racist, you insult every person in that race. There is no decree that can
>change that, only understanding and respect can. Nice to see you're on the
>right track.
Racism is not a persoanl matter alone. It is more subtle than that.
When racism reaches at an International level, it becomes more subtle and
complicated because politics involved. Anyway, again I suggest you to read
that book I mentioned earlier. Racism at the international level is a little
different from the racism you see in your everyday life. It is well-planned
and highly professional in its execution.
>Oh really. Well, lets hear your nice long listing of accompishments, shall
>we?
Wait until my book comes out.....I guess I have to write sooner than I
planned...:-))) Will you buy it if u see the author is Nor-Azlan Nordin?
You are buying a book written by a possible PM of Malaysia in the future :-)
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
<diet...@CMU.EDU> says:
>> >"anti-Western racism against Asians"... hmm... my, that's an interesting
>> >one...
>> >lesse... that's racism aimed against Asians who are 'westernized'? Or
>
>> Yes, very interesting indeed. Interesting to the neo-nazi-skinnhead-anti-
>> Asians-racist-pigs, but not to the Asians.
>
>So, as I read this, I couldn't help but wondering if Azlan is reading
>and understanding the messages prior to responding. It seems that he
>has very plainly missed the point the original author was trying to make
>in this case.
I took his question as an act of sarcasm. What I meant with "anti-Western
racism against Asians" was that I am anti westerners that are racist against
Asians. Clear?
>> Tell me what your leaders have
>> done to curb the rising trend of anti-Asians racism in the Europes and a
>Americ
>> and also in Australia?
>
>It's hardly the job of the leaders to curb anti-anyone racism. It's the
>job of the people.
The leader can ban any race related organization (i.e. KKK and
other neo-nazi organizations) for a start.
The leader has a strong influence on the people. If the
leader screams no more racism once and for all (not just for the sake of
politics), people will listen. The leader must be serious in the first
place to curb racism, not just use it as a cheap political slogan to buy
votes from the non-whites in America.
>What I find most humorous are the very real parallels that can be drawn
>concerning racism in Malayisa, where certainly a great deal exists.
>Anyone who thinks that the Bumi privileges do not have profound effects
>on the others seem to be fooling themselves. While the press can preach
>of the racial harmony that exists, all one needs to do is work around
>Indian- and Chinese- Malaysians to know that that is not so. (And I
>did, for two years.)
Yes indeed. This is another thing that is in my head. A somewhat different
approach is necessary over here. Racism for me has two levels (international
and doemstic level). The doemstic one is the one that you see everyday. The
international one is the one I am trying to argue in this forum, at this very
moment.
>And see, remarks get little more racist than this. Azlan loves to speak
>of "you" and "us", with both categories based upon race. No wonder he's
>so angry. He's carrying a lot of people around with him.
I am not angry at all. When I argue, I always use high tone and sometimes
with profanity. For me, it is an art of arguing things. Not always work
though.:-) It si also politics when I used "you" and "us". Politics is
knwoing when to actually push the right button to get into people's nerves
and also to know when to pacify people.
>Well, there were several whites killed while I lived in Malaysia. In
>fact, one family was massacred (2 small children and their mother). The
>fact that this was carried out by an Asian did not make me lash out at
>Asians. Why does the fact that whites somewhere in the world kill
>Asians make all of those racial attacks?
This is an isolated case. I don't think the murder was race related. But,
the killings of Asians by the neo-nazis in Germany are clearly
race related.
If I want to take any isolated case, I have many examples over here
convcerning the killing of Asians in MAerica. Of course, I will not
consider that as race related.
>> Afterall, you are the one who comes to trade with
>> us in the SEA regions, etc. Every country has its customs and policies
>> reagrding trade etc. that you need to adjust, not the other way around.
>
>And, of course, those must be done. And they are, I can assure you.
>Perhaps you need to learn a little more about international trade law.
Then you must read the book by Ishihara "The Japanese That Can Say No".
How the Japanese were pushed around by the Americans? etc. That's why the
title is "The Japanese That Can Say NO".. A very hot book that triggered the
strained Japanese-Americans realtionship a couple of years ago. Read it and
you judge it yourself. The co-author of the book was Morita (Chairman of SONY)
But, he withdrew from being the co-author for the AMerican edition cos' of
u know what..(he is a business man. So, he did not want to jeopradize SONY's
market in America).
>> Yes, I am a jackass to people like you who don't know didley about tolerance
>> and respect to others. But, yet has the face to talk abt. them..Bah !
>Hambug!
>
>I am a little confused about who has the knowledge of tolerance and
>respect for others. Surely, you're not implying that you do.
Ok...it is up to you. I am not looking for popularity over here, it is just
my beliefs and opinion about all these international politics, economics, and
also racism. They are all related (at the international level), and I am
trying to discuss this issue in this forum. Now, with a better tone (in other
words, without profanity). :-)) Penn State has just given me a warning (hehehe)
Somebody really got ticked off with my postings...it is ok...understandable....
-azlan nordin
Penn State
Keith K Wong
: Yes, very interesting indeed. Interesting to the neo-nazi-skinnhead-anti-
: Asians-racist-pigs, but not to the Asians.
Azlan tactic no. 1: Call opponent names in an attempt to scare him into
submission.
: Tell me what your leaders have
: done to curb the rising trend of anti-Asians racism in the Europes and America
: and also in Australia?
Azlan tactic no. 2: From a basis of ignorance, draw conclusions about
other people.
(Note that anti-Asian sentiment in Australia is DECLINING, not
increasing, as you assert. Please provide statistics to back up your
claim, and I will provide mine. Also, the Australian government has
taken many steps to ensure closer ties with our Asian neighbours - that
the leaders of these countries are recalcitrant does not help)
: Maybe the Asians should stoop that low and kill all whities
: dwelling in Asia in order to achieve synergism in the region.
Azlan tactic no. 3: When all else fails, threaten mass genocide.
: ...Lucas, I have seen
: so much of these contradicting point of views of yours, and I see no different
: from those hypocritical neo-Nazi views.
Azlan tactic no.1: Call opponent names to scare him into submission.
:Every country has its customs and policies
:reagrding trade etc. that you need to adjust, not the other way around. If we
:want to deal with you in the USA or Europe, we follow your customs and policies
:right? So, expect the same thing if u want to deal with us in our turfs. Is
:it too much to ask?
Azlan tactic no. 2: From a basis of ignorance, draw conclusions about
other people.
(Australians DO try to adjust to suit its Asian trading partners. That
is why Australian schoolchildren have the opportunity to learn Japanese
and Asian studies in state-run high schools. Asian Studies is also
offered as a course in many tertiary institutions)
: Yes, I am a jackass to people like you who don't know didley about tolerance
: and respect to others. But, yet has the face to talk abt. them..Bah Hambug!!
Azlan tactic no. 4: Pot calling the kettle black.
: That's what the skinhead-neo-nazi-racist-pigs in this country said all the
: time. But, in reality?
Azlan tactic no. 1: Call opponent names to scare him into submission.
:You probably won't get anything from it, but at least educate yourself about
:the issue before we discuss further. I hate discussing issue of this magnitude
:with an ignoramus, mind you.
Azlan tactic no. 5: Underestimate intelligence of opponent.
: >I wouldn't have accepted it anyway. Its actions, not excuses that count.
: My...my...my.....Just look who is talking.......
Azlan tactic no. 4: Pot calling the kettle black.
From repeated observations of Azlan, I propose a new scale - the Azlan
scale. It is a measure of the amount of profanity, hypocrisy, idiocy,
and amount of obfuscation possibly spewed by a netter. Ratings from
0.1 - 1, unit is Azlan. Adjective - azlanish, azlanesque.
Mr. Nordin would rate 1 Azlan.
Someone should keep tracks of the rantings of this guy. Perhaps we could
one day make him as famous as Darius Lecointe, Bobby Mozumder, or Serdar
Argic.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
| KEITH KUM-TUCK WONG - Med3, University of Western Australia ||
| Internet address: tfr...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au ||
| "Arguing with a man who has given up reason is like giving ||
| medicine to the dead" [Robert G Ingersoll] ||
==============================================================
Lucas Adamski
>In article <2dk6u4$3...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, osp...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas
>Adamski) says:
>>point is, when the foreign culture comes knocking, in the form of TV programs,
>>music, etc et al the culture on the receiving end has the choice whether it
>>wants to accept that foreign element INTO its own culture. Where the hell did
>>I say that the foreign culture REPLACES the native one? Cultures ultimately
>>choose (except in the case of armed occupation) which elements of a foreign
>>culture they wish to accept into their culture. As an example, the Jews in
>>Europe kept their faith and way of existance... they're culture... alive in
>>a sea of Christian European culture. They COULD easily have accepted the
>>Christian doctorines, but they chose not too. You really do have an extremely
>>narrow minded and destructive view of cultural interaction.
>
>I wish this is the case all the time. But, it is not actually true.
>Anyway, read that book again...I don't want to spoil your fun of reading
>that book. Pay attention on how the Americans pressured the Japanese to change
>their corporate policies and philosophies (traditionally linked to the Japanese
>culture), and see why i said the Westerners are asking too much when dealing
>with teh Asians (in this case the Japanese). Even the powerful Japanese has to
>follow the westreners direction, I could not even imagine other Asian
>countries.
Well, I'm not at all surprised that America tried to bend the rules to suit
their own needs. When it comes to business, as a rule I don't trust Americans
unless I have them on a rope (ie. they cheat me and they hang themselves). I
have no argument there at all with that. I have been cheated, and heard too
many stories of people being ripped off to believe otherwise. For example,
in the paper less then a week ago there was a story about a guy who put a
$6500 downpayment on a $8000 car... but he couldn't speak english, so the
'salesman' tacked on an extra __$18000__ in charges.. so the guy owned about
$20000 total vs $1500.
>Do you think this is fair or not? Just a simple YES or NO.
Of course not.
>>How the bloody fucking hell do you know how I act in a foreign country? How
>>in hell can you ASSUME that I show no respect in a foreign country? You are
>>one ARROGANT sob.
>
>You are ARROGANT too dude. Somebody has asked me before to calm down
>(actually, Penn State asked me to calm down..hehehe...). Now, why don't
>you calm down too dude....
Sorry, its kinda hard to calm down when someone insults you, your whole family,
nation, etc... You seem to have made the mistake of assuming that all
western countries are essentially the same. They aren't. None of them are.
Its like assuming that China is just like Korea which is just like Japan.
>[ stuff deleted]
>
>>They do? REALLY? Wow.. and I always thought they just walked around and
>>said "We wanna kill all non-whites". What do you know about reality? You
>
>Know enuff about it after reading some political books written by non-western
>authors regarding racism in the international arena (politics and economics.
>Look buddy, you are against me because u think I am a racist. I am against
>the westerners which I think did not do anything about racism against the
>Asians (leave alone the hard-core racist thermselves). Don't you think, you're
>barking at a wrong tree? Don't you think, we have a common enemy. Look, you
>have been barking soooo loud lately that I am a racist, but yet you did not
>even attack those neo-nazi-skinheads all over this country. The only thing
>you said was that "racism is a personal matter". So, that means for the
>skinhead it is a personal matter. Is it killing all those non-whites a
>personal matter? I am getting confused now unless you explain to me what
>the heck do you want......
No, what I meant was that racism is a presonal matter in that you can't force
someone to stop being racist... they themselves have to decide to change. It's
simply a fact of life... you can't ever force anyone to change who they are or
what they believe in... ultimately they have to choose to change. As to the
skinheads, the US in fact has a completely different attitude than many
countries. In the US, you can believe what ever you want, don't matter how
nasty or destructive it is. That's the law. Publically anyway. Many
institutions (such as universities) have their own laws regarding this. Point
is, you can believe what ever you want, so long as you don't break the law.
And even when you do, they can't really force you to give up what you believe
in. Ie, if you go and kill a bunch of asians or whatever, you can still Heil
Hitler all the way to the gas chamber, since you are being tried for your
crimes, not your beliefs. Personally I think that this is an offshoot of
American's Puritan etc root. I'd prefer some sort of a crackdown myself...
Germany for example has very strict laws against racism. Point is, there is
no simple solution, and throwing off the responsiblity for it onto the whole
Western culture won't solve anything. It's simply not that easy.
Of course there is racism in the international arena... although these days
most people keep it quiet, since they can't afford to lose the business by
mouthing off. I expect it has less to do with racism these days and more to
do with business... ie. grab as much as you can, pure and simple.
>>action? Well, if I ever bump into you, I'll show you exactly what I do to
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>racists like yourself.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Is this a threat? This is getting scary huh? Korean martial arts?
>Come on, you can do better than that, can you? Anyway, I don't mind bumping
>into you. I don't think you will do anything to me . If u want to solve
>this problem on the street, well I guess I have no choice then. Need to
>sharpen my Malay-Indo martial art too then :-)
There are things that aren't worth fighting for (childish insults, ego bruising)and there are things that are worth fighting for... racism is one of those
things. No, if I see skinheads walking down the street I'm not gonna walk up
to them and try to tear their heads off. But if I see something like a
racial incident (fight, etc), damn right I'll step in.
>Come on, grow up a little will you? Insults and profanity are part of
>discussing and arguing things. But, threatening me is surely even worst
>than my insult towards the westerners.
Well, I dunno... you did suggest that Asians should go and kill off all whites.
What's that sound like to you?
>Even the skinhead did not get
>threatened like this. In fact they have the chance to express their view
>on TV over here in America. In fact their views are even worst than mine.
>But, they stil have the chance to express their views and not only that it
>is on TV nationwide. Now, do I have that chance? The chance that the governt
>of the USA given to the skinhead. Nooooo....When I wrote something obscene,
>you jumped up sooo quick to shut me up and even threaten me. What is this?
Hehehe... the government had nothing to do with that. The morons were on
Geraldo for chrissake, not exactly a top notch news program there. Yes, I
saw it... it was mildly amusing, although I came away with the strong
impression that the skinhead were little more than cowards who were scared to
death of something they did not understand (other cultures), so they wanted to
destroy them. Kinda of the refuse of American society.
>Where is the tolerance? Where is the right of expressing my opinion as an
>Asian in this country?
You did express your opinion. And they I expressed my opinion of what you
said. :) See, that's how it works... you don't just get to say what ever you
feel like then just vanish into the shadows again. Guess you'd better be
prepared to defend and justify what you say next time. Perhaps you'll pick
your words more carefully, and not insult your entire audience with your
first post. If you believe in respect, you sure have a bizzare way of
showing it. What kind of response did you expect when you came in here and
insulted not only all Australians, but the whole western culture? Geez...
>
>>Racism is a personal matter... you accuse an entire country or race of being
>>racist, you insult every person in that race. There is no decree that can
>>change that, only understanding and respect can. Nice to see you're on the
>>right track.
>
>Racism is not a persoanl matter alone. It is more subtle than that.
>When racism reaches at an International level, it becomes more subtle and
>complicated because politics involved. Anyway, again I suggest you to read
>that book I mentioned earlier. Racism at the international level is a little
>different from the racism you see in your everyday life. It is well-planned
>and highly professional in its execution.
Aye, it is... and its like that because it has a motive behind it. Personal
racism is usually simply hate and fear... international racism usually has a
goal. More often than not, its less simply racism and more a 'policy',
as a Yank would put it.
>>Oh really. Well, lets hear your nice long listing of accompishments, shall
>>we?
>
>Wait until my book comes out.....I guess I have to write sooner than I
>planned...:-))) Will you buy it if u see the author is Nor-Azlan Nordin?
>You are buying a book written by a possible PM of Malaysia in the future :-)
Sure, just out of curiosity if nothing else. Just try not to insult everyone
in the first page or two. Maybe we are on the same side, but you sure have
a very strange way of showing it.
kkw...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
> In article <93333.114...@psuvm.psu.edu> <NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>[.. Azlan's song of racial hatred was here...]
>
> Azlan, zero divided by any number is still zero.
Zero divided by zero is undefined 8-)
>
>
>>
>>-azlan nordin
>> Penn State
>>
George Antony
at it:
>Come on, grow up a little will you? Insults and profanity are part of
>discussing and arguing things.
At least we now know what the grown-up, civilized Asian way is.
But, then, why are you guys so upset about Keating ? Is he too good at
your own game ? He hasn't even started exporting the real thing.
(Before you or your mates start once again barking up the wrong tree, I am no
Anglo-Celtic myself and use English as a second language.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Antony ant...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au
Economic Services, Queensland Dep.of Primary Industries, Brisbane, Australia
Ph: (07)/(+61-7) 2243078 W, 3910363 H. (GMT +10h) Fax: (07)/(+61-7) 2248943
Josef Widjaja
|<NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> (seorang biadab dari hutan-hutan Malaysia) is still
|at it:
There is a shorter name for it: "Orang Utan".
Still a bit soft, try using "Anjing Gila". :-)
--
__________Josef Widjaja___________
| jwid...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au | Juliet says hey it's Romeo
| Macquarie University, Australia | you nearly gimme a heart attack
|__________________________________| - Mark Knopfler
George Antony
>In article <CHFK7...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au> ant...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au (George Antony) writes:
>|<NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> (seorang biadab dari hutan-hutan Malaysia) is still
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|at it:
>There is a shorter name for it: "Orang Utan".
>Still a bit soft, try using "Anjing Gila". :-)
But that would be the crude, non-Asian, big-nose Caucasian way, so we
eager-to-fit-into-Asia-Australians couldn't use that, could we ? ;-)
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
In article <2dl9si$d...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, osp...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas
Adamski) says:
>Well, I'm not at all surprised that America tried to bend the rules to suit
>their own needs. When it comes to business, as a rule I don't trust Americans
>unless I have them on a rope (ie. they cheat me and they hang themselves). I
>have no argument there at all with that. I have been cheated, and heard too
>many stories of people being ripped off to believe otherwise. For example,
>in the paper less then a week ago there was a story about a guy who put a
>$6500 downpayment on a $8000 car... but he couldn't speak english, so the
>'salesman' tacked on an extra __$18000__ in charges.. so the guy owned about
>$20000 total vs $1500.
You see, you are discussing a different thing over here. The example u gave
to me is a common practice everywhere. It is not racism. It is purely
business. If I were a business man, I would do the same thing. Business
transcation is the responsibility of the customers and the sellers. It takes
two to make a deal. You can not expect the salesperson to tell everything to
the customers. Being ripped off
is a common concept in business. I expereinced being ripped off too over here
but I did not consider that the person who ripped me off as RACIST even he is
a White. In fact, I blamed myself for that cos' I think I should have known
better about business transaction.
Now, let's go back to the example I gave about the Japanese-American trade
practice. My main cocern was that the Japanese has to change their management
philosophies and customs because their Americans "partner" asked them to. This
for me is intolerant at best because I know for the very fact that the Japanese
management philosophies are traditionally related to their culture and customs.
Now, shouldn't America the one that should adjust to this local norms and
standard rather than arm-twist the Japanese to adjust to the Americans?
Afterall, the Americans are the ones that need the Japanese products (the
semiconductor, to be precised) and technology.
You might argue that is the Americans way of doing business or perhaps their
policies. However, it is more than that which I think "racism" involved.
Now, before you want to argue with me about my calling the American as
"racist" concerning thier trade with the Japanese, read the book by Ishihara
first. You will see why I said the Americans trading practice with the Japs
are rascist at its best at the international level. Pay attention to the
blatant assertion of several US Congressmen about the end of cold war between
theAmericans and Russians meant the US and Soviet Union have found their mutual
identity as CAUCASIANS. And, one of the Congressmen added that the US might
abandon Japan as its partner in the future as a result of this newly found
CAUCASIAN IDENTITY.
*Thanks God, the Soviet Union broke into pieces.....:)
After reading Ishihara's book and other articles and books convcerning the
issue, I could not help it, but conclude that there is blatant racism from
the westerners towards Asians at the international level. The leaders of the
western countries knew this for a fact (not only the Americans, but also the
Europeans. Afterall they are all allies).
Perhaps the people don't...whose fault is this? If the people are against
racism, the people should know at least this fact (what are their leaders
been doing in the international arena). Afterall, the people voted for their
respective leaders.
>>Do you think this is fair or not? Just a simple YES or NO.
>
>Of course not.
Good. You are on the right track. Then what is your opinion about America
imposing its cultural standard in dealing with the Japanese?
>Sorry, its kinda hard to calm down when someone insults you, your whole
>family,
OK..are you calmed down now? :)
>nation, etc... You seem to have made the mistake of assuming that all
>western countries are essentially the same. They aren't. None of them are.
>Its like assuming that China is just like Korea which is just like Japan.
I don't think I made any mistake except using profanity in my postings.
In fact when I used profanity, I was following one of the art of discussions.
Ok...many people seemed unpleasant about it, I stopped.
>No, what I meant was that racism is a presonal matter in that you can't force
>someone to stop being racist... they themselves have to decide to change.
>It's
>simply a fact of life... you can't ever force anyone to change who they are or
>what they believe in... ultimately they have to choose to change. As to the
>skinheads, the US in fact has a completely different attitude than many
>countries. In the US, you can believe what ever you want, don't matter how
As I said in my postings earlier, there are two levels of racism - doemstic
and international level. What you are discussing so far is the domestic one.
I am talking about racism at the internmational level. That is the interaction
between nations in the areas of politics, economics, etc. I thought I have
clarified this before. Please stick to the subject.
>nasty or destructive it is. That's the law. Publically anyway. Many
>institutions (such as universities) have their own laws regarding this. Point
>is, you can believe what ever you want, so long as you don't break the law.
>And even when you do, they can't really force you to give up what you believe
>in. Ie, if you go and kill a bunch of asians or whatever, you can still Heil
>Hitler all the way to the gas chamber, since you are being tried for your
>crimes, not your beliefs. Personally I think that this is an offshoot of
>American's Puritan etc root. I'd prefer some sort of a crackdown myself...
>Germany for example has very strict laws against racism. Point is, there is
>no simple solution, and throwing off the responsiblity for it onto the whole
>Western culture won't solve anything. It's simply not that easy.
Again, this is domestic racism.
>Of course there is racism in the international arena... although these days
>most people keep it quiet, since they can't afford to lose the business by
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>mouthing off. I expect it has less to do with racism these days and more to
>do with business... ie. grab as much as you can, pure and simple.
Usually, the victors in this kind of transactions are the westerners (the
Americans and the Europeans). Of course, you don't hear people mouth off
about this over here, but you will here that in Asia.
>There are things that aren't worth fighting for (childish insults, ego
>bruising)and there are things that are worth fighting for... racism is one of
>those
>things. No, if I see skinheads walking down the street I'm not gonna walk up
>to them and try to tear their heads off. But if I see something like a
>racial incident (fight, etc), damn right I'll step in.
What racial incident that I created to give you the right to threat
me on this net? I was arguing about racism that exists in the mind of the
westerners towards Asians. Yes, I insulted the westerners when trying to
substantitae my arguments, but that is still part of discussing issue(s).
The reason I stoped using profanity was that because Penn State warned me
not to do so (and of course, somebody felt unpleasant and complained to the
administrator), if not I would still use it. But still, I don't see any
reason why you have to threaten me.
>>Come on, grow up a little will you? Insults and profanity are part of
>>discussing and arguing things. But, threatening me is surely even worst
>>than my insult towards the westerners.
>
>Well, I dunno... you did suggest that Asians should go and kill off all
>whites.
>What's that sound like to you?
Nope, I did not suggest it, I said "Maybe the Asians should kill all Whities.."
It was intended for sarcasm and I guessed you did not get it.
>Hehehe... the government had nothing to do with that. The morons were on
>Geraldo for chrissake, not exactly a top notch news program there. Yes, I
Again this is domestic racism. Nevertheless, let me give you my opinion
reagrding this issue.
Geraldo or not is not the main point here. The fact is that they have the
chance to express their views, no matter how disgusting they are. And,
they keep on going and going and going expressing their views. Nobody
threatened them as far as I know. Even the governemnt gave them the chance
(as u said it has nothing to do with the government).
>saw it... it was mildly amusing, although I came away with the strong
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It was amusing to you because you are not the subject of their violence. We
the Aisans have to experience it. You, as a bystander in this case,
can look and giggle for their (the skinheads) outrageousness, but the
the non-Whites have to deal with the physical and mental abuses by these
racists in Europes and America. You don't see all these things in Asia against
the Whites. Do you? Except the one that I intentionally screamed in my
previous postings. In fact, my screamings were just screamings, nothing more.
Even that you already called me this and that. Compared to what I did, I think
the skinhead deserved more screams from you than me.
You see, that is why I think the westerners are prejudice towards the non-white
or Asians for that matter. When I screamed this and that to the westerners,
you quickly jumped up and screamed RACIST to me. But, when the skinhead white
supremacists screamed this and that to the non-White, the White just keep quite
or at least be amused. What's this? Is it because u still think "racism" is
a personal matter alone?
>impression that the skinhead were little more than cowards who were scared to
>death of something they did not understand (other cultures), so they wanted to
Coward or not is not important to me. The fact that people (the non-white)
die because of their disgusting ideology.
>You did express your opinion. And they I expressed my opinion of what you
>said. :) See, that's how it works... you don't just get to say what ever you
>feel like then just vanish into the shadows again. Guess you'd better be
>first post. If you believe in respect, you sure have a bizzare way of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>showing it. What kind of response did you expect when you came in here and
>insulted not only all Australians, but the whole western culture? Geez...
What I did was just a retaliation of what the westerners have been doing to the
Asians (at least at the international level).
>Aye, it is... and its like that because it has a motive behind it. Personal
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>racism is usually simply hate and fear... international racism usually has a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>goal. More often than not, its less simply racism and more a 'policy',
^^^^
>as a Yank would put it.
What do you mean "international racism" usually has goal? Motive behind?
No matter what, it is still "racism". Don't you agree? To call it as policy
doesn't make it immuned from being "racist"!!!!
>Sure, just out of curiosity if nothing else. Just try not to insult everyone
>in the first page or two. Maybe we are on the same side, but you sure have
>a very strange way of showing it.
This is what I don't understand. Many of your fellow countrymen said that
the insult by Keating calling Mahathir "recalcitrant" is nothing and argued
that in Asutralia it is just a stronger word for "stubborn". And, they
strongly argued that it is part of politics and defended that "recalcitrant"
is the right word to express the behavior of Mahathir for not going to the APEC
meeting.
Ok..let us assume that it is ok to use "recalcitrant" or what have you....
And, also assumed that I accept the word as what it is.....
Now, considering the above, what is the different between what I wrote in my
postings and what Keating said. I called the westerners "stuck-up" and
"pompous" which I think these words are nothing more than a couple of stronger
words for "arrogant" or "boastful". Of course, I have reasons for saying
the westerners as "arrogant" and "boastful" (my previous postings discussed
about this).
Don't u think there is some kind of "double-standard" imposed on me regarding
this?
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
ant...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au (George Antony) says:
>(Before you or your mates start once again barking up the wrong tree, I am no
>Anglo-Celtic myself and use English as a second language.)
Don't worry. You are so innocent. Probably, it is a sin to even ask you:
How are you? :-)))
-azlan nordin
Penn State
CH...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
ant...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au (George Antony) writes:
>>discussing and arguing things.
>
>At least we now know what the grown-up, civilized Asian way is.
thread, and I'm yet to see anyone who complains about them. Why are all the
complaints directed only to Azlan? Do I see a double standard here? I am
shocked and terrified.
-AL
ps: Oh, you double standard bastards!
Brendan Jones
>I don't know. There is hardly a simple way to 'fix' such a problem. In such
>a situation, a government doesn't have any power except to declare everyone
>equal and pass laws against discrimination... of course, they could pass laws
>against racial violence, but then that would be racial legislation.
Violence is violence, whether it is racially motivated or not.
And violence is illegal. The laws to do this are already in
place.
As for Azlan Nordin, pay him no mind. There seems to have been
several background mailings from people on s.c.m saying Azlan
is basically a windbag, to pay him no mind, and to realise just
because him and Mahathir have some right-wing and racist ideas
to realise that not all Malaysians think as they do. The
posting that informed me of that came from a Malaysian.
cheers
bj
Robert Knowles
>FROM: George Antony <ant...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au>
>
>jwid...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Josef Widjaja) writes:
>
>>In article <CHFK7...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au> ant...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au (George Antony) writes:
>>|<NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu> (seorang biadab dari hutan-hutan Malaysia) is still
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rude man from the Malaysian jungle? Sounds like the last cab driver I had.
>>|at it:
>
>>There is a shorter name for it: "Orang Utan".
>>Still a bit soft, try using "Anjing Gila". :-)
Dog Mad/Crazy
>
>But that would be the crude, non-Asian, big-nose Caucasian way, so we
>eager-to-fit-into-Asia-Australians couldn't use that, could we ? ;-)
Oh, this looks like pretty mild stuff (anjing gila=crazy dog).
Couldn't we use a few phrases with babi and pupuk in them?
Come on guys, this may be a prime opportunity to get some
serious insults in Bahasa Melayu.
Or maybe someone can remember that little 3 letter word which describes
the festered yellow pus which oozes from open sores. I know the Indonesians
have a word for it, but I can't remember what it is. I just remember that
it had a fairly nauseating paragraph describing it.
Lucas Adamski
>
>In article <2dl9si$d...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, osp...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas
>Adamski) says:
>You see, you are discussing a different thing over here. The example u gave
>to me is a common practice everywhere. It is not racism. It is purely
>business. If I were a business man, I would do the same thing. Business
>transcation is the responsibility of the customers and the sellers. It takes
>two to make a deal. You can not expect the salesperson to tell everything to
>the customers. Being ripped off
>is a common concept in business. I expereinced being ripped off too over here
>but I did not consider that the person who ripped me off as RACIST even he is
>a White. In fact, I blamed myself for that cos' I think I should have known
>better about business transaction.
>
>Now, let's go back to the example I gave about the Japanese-American trade
>practice. My main cocern was that the Japanese has to change their management
>philosophies and customs because their Americans "partner" asked them to. This
>for me is intolerant at best because I know for the very fact that the Japanese
>management philosophies are traditionally related to their culture and customs.
>Now, shouldn't America the one that should adjust to this local norms and
>standard rather than arm-twist the Japanese to adjust to the Americans?
>Afterall, the Americans are the ones that need the Japanese products (the
>semiconductor, to be precised) and technology.
They did not bother to adjust not because they decided to be racist, but simply
because there was no profit in it. They bent and twisted the rules to suit
themselves, and optimized their advantage. If you wish you can say that
racism was the result of this, but the driving force behind this was simple-
profit. American companies exist purely to make money, and they have very
few qualms (if any) of treading on anybody and everybody's toes to get what
they want. Its not that they are going out of the way to be racist... its
simply a case of them not caring who the walk all over. They saw an
opportunity in Japan, and took it.
>You might argue that is the Americans way of doing business or perhaps their
>policies. However, it is more than that which I think "racism" involved.
>Now, before you want to argue with me about my calling the American as
>"racist" concerning thier trade with the Japanese, read the book by Ishihara
>first. You will see why I said the Americans trading practice with the Japs
>are rascist at its best at the international level. Pay attention to the
>blatant assertion of several US Congressmen about the end of cold war between
>theAmericans and Russians meant the US and Soviet Union have found their mutual
>identity as CAUCASIANS. And, one of the Congressmen added that the US might
>abandon Japan as its partner in the future as a result of this newly found
>CAUCASIAN IDENTITY.
You are talking about the US congress, remember? Not even Americans pay any
attention to it any more.
>*Thanks God, the Soviet Union broke into pieces.....:)
>
>After reading Ishihara's book and other articles and books convcerning the
>issue, I could not help it, but conclude that there is blatant racism from
>the westerners towards Asians at the international level. The leaders of the
>western countries knew this for a fact (not only the Americans, but also the
>Europeans. Afterall they are all allies).
Yes, there is discrimination... but like I said, these days the motive behind
it seems to be profit. Get what you want ASAP. I find it interesting that
you seen to base your entire argument on essentially one book.
>>>Do you think this is fair or not? Just a simple YES or NO.
>>
>>Of course not.
>
>Good. You are on the right track. Then what is your opinion about America
>imposing its cultural standard in dealing with the Japanese?
Really? I'm on the right track? Wow. You know, you'd be a lot more effective
if you didn't continually insult people. It is an insult to assume that the
person you are talking to automagically knows less and comprehends less of the
issue than you do.
>>nation, etc... You seem to have made the mistake of assuming that all
>>western countries are essentially the same. They aren't. None of them are.
>>Its like assuming that China is just like Korea which is just like Japan.
>
>I don't think I made any mistake except using profanity in my postings.
>In fact when I used profanity, I was following one of the art of discussions.
>Ok...many people seemed unpleasant about it, I stopped.
Well, if you don't consider insulting your entire audience a mistake, then no,
you didn't make any mistakes. Unfortunately for you, the vast majority of
people do consider it a mistake. A fatal one. It tends to kill any chance
what so ever of a logical discussion.
>>No, what I meant was that racism is a presonal matter in that you can't force
>>someone to stop being racist... they themselves have to decide to change.
>>It's
>>simply a fact of life... you can't ever force anyone to change who they are or
>>what they believe in... ultimately they have to choose to change. As to the
>>skinheads, the US in fact has a completely different attitude than many
>>countries. In the US, you can believe what ever you want, don't matter how
>
>As I said in my postings earlier, there are two levels of racism - doemstic
>and international level. What you are discussing so far is the domestic one.
>I am talking about racism at the internmational level. That is the interaction
>between nations in the areas of politics, economics, etc. I thought I have
>clarified this before. Please stick to the subject.
The subject of racism on the international scale (aka nationalism) has been
around as long as nations have been. Kings, emperors and all have been
practicing nationalism for countless centuries... Asia has no monopoly on
that subject. For that matter, Asia is not exactly an innocent angel when
it comes to that issue. I do seem to recall that Japan invaded and took over
Korea sometimes in the early 20th century, and proceeded to carry a policy of
cultural genocide... it attempted to erase the Korean culture, and replace it
with the Japanese culture. People in glass houses, and all that.
>>Of course there is racism in the international arena... although these days
>>most people keep it quiet, since they can't afford to lose the business by
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>mouthing off. I expect it has less to do with racism these days and more to
>>do with business... ie. grab as much as you can, pure and simple.
>
>Usually, the victors in this kind of transactions are the westerners (the
>Americans and the Europeans). Of course, you don't hear people mouth off
>about this over here, but you will here that in Asia.
Look, you and I know that the only real difference between domestic and
international racism is that international racism usually has very clearly
set goals. International racism has been around for ever, as part of the
competition between countries... virutally all cultures have practiced it to
some degree or another. The only real reason that the western culture has
caught more flack for it is simply because its been better at it.
>>>Come on, grow up a little will you? Insults and profanity are part of
>>>discussing and arguing things. But, threatening me is surely even worst
>>>than my insult towards the westerners.
>>
>>Well, I dunno... you did suggest that Asians should go and kill off all
>>whites.
>>What's that sound like to you?
>
>Nope, I did not suggest it, I said "Maybe the Asians should kill all Whities.."
>It was intended for sarcasm and I guessed you did not get it.
Maybe the skin heads were just being sarcastic too... saying it to freak people
out for the fun of it.
[snip]
>You see, that is why I think the westerners are prejudice towards the non-white
>or Asians for that matter. When I screamed this and that to the westerners,
>you quickly jumped up and screamed RACIST to me. But, when the skinhead white
>supremacists screamed this and that to the non-White, the White just keep quite
>or at least be amused. What's this? Is it because u still think "racism" is
>a personal matter alone?
You seem to have the dangerous assumption that Asians can't be racist. What
give you the right to assume that I would not respond as violently to a
white supremacist? Arrogance again. The reason you don't see me screaming
at a white supremacist is because there isn't one here, is there? Geez...
>>You did express your opinion. And they I expressed my opinion of what you
>>said. :) See, that's how it works... you don't just get to say what ever you
>>feel like then just vanish into the shadows again. Guess you'd better be
>
>
>>first post. If you believe in respect, you sure have a bizzare way of
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>showing it. What kind of response did you expect when you came in here and
>>insulted not only all Australians, but the whole western culture? Geez...
>
>What I did was just a retaliation of what the westerners have been doing to the
>Asians (at least at the international level).
Oh, now there's an old excuse... and sounding as stale as ever. Nice to see
you're trying to solve the problem, rather than just making it worse.
[snip]
>>Sure, just out of curiosity if nothing else. Just try not to insult everyone
>>in the first page or two. Maybe we are on the same side, but you sure have
>>a very strange way of showing it.
>
>This is what I don't understand. Many of your fellow countrymen said that
>the insult by Keating calling Mahathir "recalcitrant" is nothing and argued
>that in Asutralia it is just a stronger word for "stubborn". And, they
>strongly argued that it is part of politics and defended that "recalcitrant"
>is the right word to express the behavior of Mahathir for not going to the APEC
>meeting.
>
>Ok..let us assume that it is ok to use "recalcitrant" or what have you....
>And, also assumed that I accept the word as what it is.....
>
>Now, considering the above, what is the different between what I wrote in my
>postings and what Keating said. I called the westerners "stuck-up" and
>"pompous" which I think these words are nothing more than a couple of stronger
>words for "arrogant" or "boastful". Of course, I have reasons for saying
>the westerners as "arrogant" and "boastful" (my previous postings discussed
>about this).
>
>Don't u think there is some kind of "double-standard" imposed on me regarding
>this?
Of course not... you're completely missing the point... Keating did not make
a racial remark.. you DID. Keating said that an INDIVIDUAL, was XXX XXX. You
turn around as say the whole western culture is XXX XXX. That IS RACISM.
The only one with a double standard here is you... you claim to be against
racism, but you continually make racist remarks. If you had come here and
called Keating XXX XXX, then that would have been completely different. But
you take Keating as an example, then call the whole western race arrogant and
boastful. How could you expect anyone to listen to you seriously when your
arguments are full of hypocracy and racism???
Lucas Adamski
Ooooh... I think someone feels ignored. Poor thing. There ya go, we hear your
inane insults quite well! Well better now? Next time say something worth
replying to.
//Lucas.
Lucas Adamski
*sigh* I know... OK, OK, I ADMIT IT!! So he just makes such a nice big juicy
target. Everyone needs some target practice every so often. Oh well, I guess
I'll give it a rest. :) A formal apology to all the normal intelligent people
out there in s.c.m.... hope all this crap didn't waste too much of your time.
Just goes to prove (once again) that jerks are the same the world over.
Have a better one!
//Lucas.
Matthew MacIntyre
: I am not angry at all. When I argue, I always use high tone and sometimes
: with profanity. For me, it is an art of arguing things. Not always work
: though.:-) It si also politics when I used "you" and "us". Politics is
: knwoing when to actually push the right button to get into people's nerves
: and also to know when to pacify people.
Dear Sir,
You are a fool.
I hope that wraps up this thread.
Brendan Jones
>Ok...it is up to you. I am not looking for popularity over here, it is just
>my beliefs and opinion about all these international politics, economics, and
>also racism. They are all related (at the international level), and I am
>trying to discuss this issue in this forum. Now, with a better tone (in other
>words, without profanity). :-)) Penn State has just given me a warning (hehehe)
>Somebody really got ticked off with my postings...it is ok...understandable....
What did you expect? You yourself spout hatred and hate along
racial, cultural and national divisions. Your writings have an
air of arrogance, ignorance and contempt punctuated by foul
language, personal abuse, ethnic slurs and racial stereotypes.
You review apartied on a case by case basis; applauding it when
you are the beneficiary and cursing it when you are not. At
best that can be described as opportunistic. At worst it can
be described as plain vile.
Time to take a look in the mirror, and consider taking that
chip off your shoulder...
enjoy,
bj.
>
>-azlan nordin
> Penn State
ncheng@ralvm29|tp|652762|Ngee Cheng
to childish name calling, boasting about Asian intelligence
and calling Australians Kangaroos and the like. For one thing,
Australians do not get as easily offended by negative/critical
press as Malaysians do. They take open criticisms in stride
and try to deal with the issues as they come without getting
all emotional about it. At least they do not resort to
closing down the press that do not tow the ONE and ONLY
government line and jail people with good opposing views
under the primitive pretext of internal security.
If Malaysians are smarter than the Europeans, why aren't we
seeing large numbers of Australians/Americans/Britons/Canadians
studying in Malaysian universities? Have Malaysia ever produced
a Nobel laureate? How many companies outside of Malaysia would
accept a Malaysian educated applicant for highly skilled jobs?
For alot of you that are on the net, how many of you originate
your posts to SCM from the slow to almost primitive 64Kbps Jaring
net? That is no faster than one basic rate ISDN telephone line! I
believe most of you would boast that you got your education in
Australia, England, America or Canada. Few would boast of
having one from Malaysia where special accomodations of major
group(s) of supposedly disadvantaged people (which to Malaysians
and foreigners alike is euphemism for people with dull mental
faculties whose chances for academic success are slim) have
dragged the academic system down to the pits!
Until you are able to sell a Proton Saga in every country in
the world, have a Jaring net that crawls faster than 64 Kbps,
have world-class home-grown engineers, scientists, thinkers,
philosophers and Nobel laureates that can argue and disagree
publicly without going to jail for it, I would not boast of
Malaysian superiority over the other peoples. Until the day
that Malaysians do not grope after the English language for
sophisticated words, ideas, concepts, and new and exploding
number of English terms in physics, medicene, computer science,
etc. I would not, for one moment, think Malaysians are smarter
than any body. For those who say and think so, you only
magnify your great ignorance and stupidity.
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
says:
>Violence is violence, whether it is racially motivated or not.
>And violence is illegal. The laws to do this are already in
>place.
Good.
>As for Azlan Nordin, pay him no mind. There seems to have been
>several background mailings from people on s.c.m saying Azlan
>is basically a windbag, to pay him no mind, and to realise just
I have to be a "windbag" in order to tell you what is going on in the
world politics and economics. There is something wrong which all of us
tend to overlook. No matter what I said or wrote, you have all the right
in the world to disagree with me. Agree to disagree, right?
>because him and Mahathir have some right-wing and racist ideas
>to realise that not all Malaysians think as they do. The
Malaysia is a democratic country. The people have the right to vote for their
leaders. And, Mahathir is agreed upon to be the PM of Malaysia. If people
voted for him to be their leader, and you think he is a right-wing racist, I
it's easy to deduce that all the Malaysians (at least the majority of the
people) are right-wing racists too. This is blatant accusation from you
Brendan. Care to elaborate?
You can't accuse a leader of a nation to be racist and be apologistic about
it by saying "not all Malaysians think as he does". A leader of a democratic
nation is voted fair and square to lead the country, and the majority of the
people agreed with his philosophies and ideas.
>posting that informed me of that came from a Malaysian.
Then the guy who sent you the mail probably is a left-winger, or probably has
no wing at all..:-))))
-azlan nordin
Penn State
>cheers
>bj
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
Adamski) says:
>They did not bother to adjust not because they decided to be racist, but
>simply
>because there was no profit in it. They bent and twisted the rules to suit
>themselves, and optimized their advantage. If you wish you can say that
>racism was the result of this, but the driving force behind this was simple-
>profit. American companies exist purely to make money, and they have very
>few qualms (if any) of treading on anybody and everybody's toes to get what
>they want. Its not that they are going out of the way to be racist... its
>simply a case of them not caring who the walk all over. They saw an
>opportunity in Japan, and took it.
Well, this point of view is well taken. But, don't you think there is another
side of the coin? Which is basically my view regarding this.
>>theAmericans and Russians meant the US and Soviet Union have found their l
>mutua
>>identity as CAUCASIANS. And, one of the Congressmen added that the US might
>>abandon Japan as its partner in the future as a result of this newly found
>>CAUCASIAN IDENTITY.
>
>You are talking about the US congress, remember? Not even Americans pay any
>attention to it any more.
What the heck is going on over here? Who the heck put those people in the
Congress? The people of the country!!! The Congressmen are the poeple that
passed the laws, etc. for the people. I think, I am getting confused with
your argument regarding this. To say that you don't pay attention is the
lamest excuse I have ever heard. I would appreciate it if u could
comment on the Congressmen statement regarding that "newly found CAUACASIAN
identity". I don't think this is nationalism, it is CAUCASIANISM!!!!
>Yes, there is discrimination... but like I said, these days the motive behind
>it seems to be profit. Get what you want ASAP. I find it interesting that
>you seen to base your entire argument on essentially one book.
There are several books written by Asians which I forgot the title. I am going
back to Malaysia by the end of this year. I will find out about that books
if you are interested.
>>Good. You are on the right track. Then what is your opinion about America
>>imposing its cultural standard in dealing with the Japanese?
>
>Really? I'm on the right track? Wow. You know, you'd be a lot more
>effective
>if you didn't continually insult people. It is an insult to assume that the
>person you are talking to automagically knows less and comprehends less of the
>issue than you do.
Come on you sure have a very sensitive soul. Take it easy...ok. I wasn't
insulting you. Just answer the question. You are sidetracking my question
just because I said "you are in the right track"? Come on dude....
You also automagically assumed that I was insulting you. Probably, you got
carried away with Keith Wong (?) postings about Azlan's tactics, etc.
Get to the point, will you? If most people on the net seemed to be on your
side doesn't mean that your opinions are right. Anyway, to make the story
short answer the question.
>Well, if you don't consider insulting your entire audience a mistake, then no,
>you didn't make any mistakes. Unfortunately for you, the vast majority of
>people do consider it a mistake. A fatal one. It tends to kill any chance
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>what so ever of a logical discussion.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are we discussing or insulting right now? If u think every words I wrote,
every ideas I expressed, etc, are insulting, then I guess I shoudl better
stop this. I thought we are going in the right path in discussing this
issue. Unfortunately, you took it differently.
>The subject of racism on the international scale (aka nationalism) has been
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>around as long as nations have been. Kings, emperors and all have been
>practicing nationalism for countless centuries... Asia has no monopoly on
>that subject. For that matter, Asia is not exactly an innocent angel when
>it comes to that issue. I do seem to recall that Japan invaded and took over
>Korea sometimes in the early 20th century, and proceeded to carry a policy of
>cultural genocide... it attempted to erase the Korean culture, and replace it
>with the Japanese culture. People in glass houses, and all that.
"Nationalism" = "International Racism"? Now I know, you don't know what
I meant with International Racism. You won't find that term in any book
on this planet. It is a term I have just coined in this discussion.
Probably, the term International Racism is in any other books, I don't know.
But I have never come acrosss that term before except in this discussion.
Now, let me clarify what I meant with that term..."International Racism".
"Nationalism" is basically defined as "a devotion of interests or culture of
particular nation, i.e. aspirations for national independences, etc.". For
instance, in a multi-cultural country like Malaysia, we have Malay nationalism,
Chinese nationalism, etc. It does not necessarily carries the idea of
racism, does it? Ok..this is the definition given by the American Heritage
Dict.
Now, let me explain to u what I meant with "International Racism". I don't
deny the fact that "nationalism" is a part of "Intenational racism", but to
say (assume?) they're the same and carry the same meanings are a gross mistake.
The "internatinal racism" is broader in its
meaning and encompases many different nationalities (people from different
countries). Unlike "nationalism", "international racism" applies to a group
of people of different races, but similar identities so to speak. Like
Caucasians, Asians, Africans, etc. They are different races, but have
similar identities. Clear???
More examples......
Malay nationalism, Chinese nationalism, Japanese nationalism, etc. are
part of the Asians.
British nationalism, American nationalism, Australian nationalism, ect. are
parts of the Caucasians.
Both are parts of the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. So, if there is any
RACISM between the two groups. It is called "International Racism".
It does not necessarily means between NATION, but between a group of NATIONS.
But, there is also RACISM between Asian and Asian. And, Caucasian and
Caucasian. What do you think about this? Pop Quiz!!!
>Look, you and I know that the only real difference between domestic and
>international racism is that international racism usually has very clearly
>set goals. International racism has been around for ever, as part of the
>competition between countries... virutally all cultures have practiced it to
The clearly set goals are RACIST GOALS no matter what!!! There is no
compromise in RACISM whether it is doemstic or international.
>some degree or another. The only real reason that the western culture has
>caught more flack for it is simply because its been better at it.
Considering the definition of "International Racism", these statement are
simply RACIST!!!
>>Nope, I did not suggest it, I said "Maybe the Asians should kill all "
>people
>out for the fun of it.
But, many non-white died because of that whether it was meant to be sarcastic
or not. Did my sarcasm kill any soul on this planet? Noooo...unless you
have a very sensitive soul. Probably, my insults are dangerous than a
weapon of mass destruction..:-))) My mother is right.."the pen is sharper
the sword".
>You seem to have the dangerous assumption that Asians can't be racist. What
No, I think you assumed that I made the assumption that Asians can't be
racist. I have never said that. Racisms between Asians are widespread too.
Malaysia alone have Malay vs. Chinese racism that I need to take care. It
is doemstic racism (perhaps, Malay nationalism vs. Chinese natiolnalism).
My discussions right now is about "International Racism". Stick to the
subject buddy!!!! Please, for god sake. The doemstic racism can only be
solved by dialogue between the participating races (i.e. Malay and Chinese
in Malaysia) in order to understand each other. The international racism
can only be solved by dialogue between the two groups I mentioned (Caucasiasn
and Asians).
>give you the right to assume that I would not respond as violently to a
>white supremacist?
>white supremacist? Arrogance again. The reason you don't see me screaming
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>at a white supremacist is because there isn't one here, is there? Geez...
Come on, what is this? Probably, I have to start every statements I write
with "My dear sweetheart Lucas..." in order to make you happy when arguing
with you. Get a life will you? Perhaps we should stop this thread once
and for all. I am getting tired of your petty complaint about this and that
about me being arrogant, etc. Argue like a man, will you???
>>What I did was just a retaliation of what the westerners have been doing to e
>th
>>Asians (at least at the international level).
>
>Oh, now there's an old excuse... and sounding as stale as ever. Nice to see
>you're trying to solve the problem, rather than just making it worse.
That's what u think.
>Of course not... you're completely missing the point... Keating did not make
>a racial remark.. you DID. Keating said that an INDIVIDUAL, was XXX XXX. You
>turn around as say the whole western culture is XXX XXX. That IS RACISM.
>The only one with a double standard here is you... you claim to be against
>racism, but you continually make racist remarks. If you had come here and
>called Keating XXX XXX, then that would have been completely different. But
>you take Keating as an example, then call the whole western race arrogant and
>boastful. How could you expect anyone to listen to you seriously when your
>arguments are full of hypocracy and racism???
You are right my dear..It was silly of me not to see that. Maybe, I will
be more careful not to hurt your feeling my dear. Bye..bye now....
Adios Amigo!!! Got to study for my exams...see you after I come back from
Malaysia next year. To the netters, "INTERNATIONAL RACISM", remember that
term, the title of my book......:-)))
Anyway, Lucas Adamski, I appreciate for your discussions but not for your
emotional outcries tho'. I agree with some of your points, not all though.
But, we agree to disagree, right? Anyway, if you seriously want to continue
our discussions, please tell me. I don't mind at all. In fact, it is good
for me because I have the chance to express my opinions. But, not for the
next 6-7 days at least. Don't take this as a retreat ok..because I don't...
never..:-)
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
Adamski) says:
>*sigh* I know... OK, OK, I ADMIT IT!! So he just makes such a nice big juicy
>target. Everyone needs some target practice every so often. Oh well, I guess
>I'll give it a rest. :) A formal apology to all the normal intelligent people
>out there in s.c.m.... hope all this crap didn't waste too much of your time.
>Just goes to prove (once again) that jerks are the same the world over.
Hahahaha...a nice way to get away with an ego in tact huh? Egoistic Jerkazoid
are all the same the world over, my dear. At least be a man in confrontation
like this my dear friend. All Brawn and No Brain is not good for your body.
Adios Amigo. Alegre de discutir contigo. Probablemente nosotros vamos a
discutir otra vez en un futuro cercano. Cuidate....
-azlan nordin
Penn State
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
says:
>: I am not angry at all. When I argue, I always use high tone and sometimes
>: with profanity. For me, it is an art of arguing things. Not always work
>: though.:-) It si also politics when I used "you" and "us". Politics is
>: knwoing when to actually push the right button to get into people's nerves
>: and also to know when to pacify people.
>
>Dear Sir,
> You are a fool.
>
Ok...
>I hope that wraps up this thread.
Thank you for your enlightening contributions.
-azlan nordin
Penn State
NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
says:
>What did you expect? You yourself spout hatred and hate along
>racial, cultural and national divisions. Your writings have an
>air of arrogance, ignorance and contempt punctuated by foul
>language, personal abuse, ethnic slurs and racial stereotypes.
Similar reactions by the Americans readers when they read the book by
Shintaro Ishihara. Also, similar reactions by the Westerners (particularly,
the British) when they read the book by Mahathir Mohamad. Similar reactions
by the wordl when Soekarno (the late Indonesian President) expressed his view
regarding western colonialization of the Asian countries. Similar reaction by
the wests when Gamal Abdun Nasser (the late President of Egypt) expressed his
view concenrning the evil of western colonilaization in the middle-east.
Similar reaction by the westerners when Sekou Toure (the late president of
Guinea expressed his anti-imperialist and anti-colonial views in Africa.
Similar reactions by the wests when Houar Boumedienne (the late President of
Algeria) when expressed his anti-colonial, anti-imperialis and anti-neocolonial
views in Algeria.
The world called all these gentlemen as racist, arrogant and all sorts
of words for what they did (to satnd up and say NO to the West and speak
their mind).
>You review apartied on a case by case basis; applauding it when
>you are the beneficiary and cursing it when you are not. At
>best that can be described as opportunistic. At worst it can
>be described as plain vile.
>Time to take a look in the mirror, and consider taking that
>chip off your shoulder...
Adios amigo!!!! Catch you later (I mean after a week).....
-azlan nordin
Penn State
>Brendan Jones
SUHAIMI, MANSOR
>
>If Malaysians are smarter than the Europeans, why aren't we
>seeing large numbers of Australians/Americans/Britons/Canadians
>studying in Malaysian universities?
The thing that one University better than the other is resources,
both human and material. The thing that makes foreigner come to our
Universities is PR. In both cases Malaysian Universities, due to the
duration of existence have to build up to. You are putting unfair criterions,
comparing institutions which existed in terms of decades to centuries
>Have Malaysia ever produced
>a Nobel laureate?
Not yes, but you'll be seeing a few soon.
>How many companies outside of Malaysia would
>accept a Malaysian educated applicant for highly skilled jobs?
This is another unfair criterion. Companies look for things that
they're familiar with, and for Malaysian Universities should at least
for now tailor its curriculum for Malaysian needs, not any outside
countries' needs.
>
>For alot of you that are on the net, how many of you originate
>your posts to SCM from the slow to almost primitive 64Kbps Jaring
>net?
Hey, you've got to start somewhere, and you have to admit that we
are having one helluva start.
>believe most of you would boast that you got your education in
>Australia, England, America or Canada. Few would boast of
>having one from Malaysia where special accomodations of major
>group(s) of supposedly disadvantaged people (which to Malaysians
>and foreigners alike is euphemism for people with dull mental
>faculties whose chances for academic success are slim) have
>dragged the academic system down to the pits!
Hey, I'm not big on the current quota system either.
However, I don't think our education system is going down the
pits. More and more Malaysian students are taking initiative in
pursuing post-baccalaureate studies, bringing the knowledge back
to the Homeland and increasing the number of Malaysian intellectuals.
>
>Until you are able to sell a Proton Saga in every country in
>the world, have a Jaring net that crawls faster than 64 Kbps,
>have world-class home-grown engineers, scientists, thinkers,
>philosophers and Nobel laureates that can argue and disagree
>publicly without going to jail for it, I would not boast of
>Malaysian superiority over the other peoples.
Here we go again. You are comparing us to the developed
countries. We are working on those materialistic qualifications
that you have imposed on us at out tender age, and you must admit
that we're gaining ground. We are situated on a region that is
destined to become the world economic and industrial leader towards
the end of the next century. No, we probably wont sell Proton Saga
in every country, but we will sell teleporter modules. No, we won't
have 64kb Jaring, but 64Gbaud subspace net. No, we might have
Nobel laureates, but Mansor laureates.
One other thing. You apparently not a student of History.
Malaysia is a nation in synthesis, and the synthesis of any new
nation, even yours are tumultuous. However tumultuous it may seem
to you, we are doing better than most with our diversified people.
Yes, there are a lot of kinks to work out, but hey, we are still
young, and eager to learn, and very proud of our accomplishments.
So, whoever you are, you can bark at us from above, but deep in
your mind you know that someday we'll just ignore you from above.
>Until the day
>that Malaysians do not grope after the English language for
>sophisticated words, ideas, concepts, and new and exploding
>number of English terms in physics, medicene, computer science,
>etc.
No, when the day comes, you will be groping for Malay words.
>I would not, for one moment, think Malaysians are smarter
>than any body. For those who say and think so, you only
>magnify your great ignorance and stupidity.
Never claimed to be smarter. You are getting tangled with
our Pride. You might be better (in very limited terms) than us now,
but our day is not that far off.
I really get the impression that you are not White at all, but
another minority trying to blend into an overglorified and spent culture.
Belive me Bro, they'll never see beyond the color of your skin, no matter
how hard you scrub or bleach your skin, it'll never be white.
If by any chance I'm wrong, you must be some nerdo with bifocals
and tools sticking out your shirt pocket. Go out, get laid, get a life....
Suhaimi Mansor
>
>
>
Kin Yan Chung
>Of course not... you're completely missing the point... Keating did not make
>a racial remark.. you DID. Keating said that an INDIVIDUAL, was XXX XXX. You
>turn around as say the whole western culture is XXX XXX. That IS RACISM.
>The only one with a double standard here is you... you claim to be against
>racism, but you continually make racist remarks. If you had come here and
>called Keating XXX XXX, then that would have been completely different.
Indeed, if Azlan had directed his remarks at Keating only, I wouldn't be
surprised if most of us agreed with him ;)
--
Kin Yan Chung (kin...@math.princeton.edu) O O O Sydney
"Kill Kenny!" "Who's he?" "The Evil One, King of Lies, O O 2000
Prince of Darkness and Confusion." (UWA graffiti)
I've got this vi thing worked out.... :w :q :wq! ZZ ^Z ^D ^[[1^[[1^ ^H ^C^C^C^C
Gregory A. Haverkamp
diplomati.. by NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
>leaders. And, Mahathir is agreed upon to be the PM of Malaysia. If people
>voted for him to be their leader, and you think he is a right-wing racist, I
>it's easy to deduce that all the Malaysians (at least the majority of the
>people) are right-wing racists too. This is blatant accusation from you
>Brendan. Care to elaborate?
No leader is selected for fulfilling all the desires of the people. And
no leader could be, short of a single-minded society. I know of no such
nation.
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.malaysia: 3-Dec-93 Re: Mahatir spurs
diplomati.. by NXN...@psuvm.psu.edu
>You can't accuse a leader of a nation to be racist and be apologistic about
>it by saying "not all Malaysians think as he does". A leader of a democratic
>nation is voted fair and square to lead the country, and the majority of the
>people agreed with his philosophies and ideas.
Hardly. Certainly in no country utilizing a parliamentary system is
this the case. And even the U.S. doesn't require the approval of a
majority of the people (or did you miss the 43% of the popular vote
Clinton received but still became President.)
Hell, the people don't even have to vote for Mahathir.
Jim Gunson
> ... similar reactions by the Westerners (particularly,
> the British) when they read the book by Mahathir Mohamad. Similar reactions
> by the wordl when Soekarno (the late Indonesian President) expressed his view
> regarding western colonialization of the Asian countries. Similar reaction by
> the wests when Gamal Abdun Nasser (the late President of Egypt) expressed his
> view concenrning the evil of western colonilaization in the middle-east.
> Similar reaction by the westerners when Sekou Toure (the late president of
> Guinea expressed his anti-imperialist and anti-colonial views in Africa.
> Similar reactions by the wests when Houar Boumedienne (the late President of
> Algeria) when expressed his anti-colonial, anti-imperialis and anti-neocolonial
> views in Algeria.
>
> The world called all these gentlemen as racist, arrogant and all sorts
> of words for what they did (to satnd up and say NO to the West and speak
> their mind).
>
>
> Penn State
>
The Ayatollah and Saddam Hussein should really be included in the above.
This guy's outpourings about Caucasian racism are, IMO, a front for
Islamic chest-beating.
I think Islam is the finest religion in the world. Too bad "Westerners"
and "Caucasians" only get to hear this sort of invective.
Jim Gunson