Is cooking with wine haram?
Pan
frequent a.r.i. I'd be curious to have knowledgeable responses from
anywhere and also to know how Malaysian Muslims answer this question.
So suppose someone wants to cook a chicken in a pot with wine. If the
alcohol all evaporates and the chicken and all other ingredients used
were all halal and cooked in a halal pot with halal utensils and
served on halal plates, is the dish still haram? What if there may be
a trace of alcohol remaining but no possibility of intoxication from
such a small amount?
I look forward to your replies with interest. Thank you very much.
Michael
If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.
azura a.n.
> So suppose someone wants to cook a chicken in a pot with wine. If the
> alcohol all evaporates and the chicken and all other ingredients used
> were all halal and cooked in a halal pot with halal utensils and
> served on halal plates, is the dish still haram? What if there may be
> a trace of alcohol remaining but no possibility of intoxication from
> such a small amount?
>
> I look forward to your replies with interest. Thank you very much.
Hello Pan
Well, God has forbidden us from consuming alcohol in any form.
Unless you require it for medical purpose , but still than only if absolutely
necessary or in emergency or life threatening situation ,survival.
I believe cooking with wine will still be consider haram.
It does not matter whether there are microns of it or a gallon .
Muslim and alcohol should not have any business together in the first place
and personally I would not take like to take that risk .
Can't you use Non-Alcoholic Beer ? :)
have a nice day
azura
Dr Daud Toyo
> Hello Pan
>
> Well, God has forbidden us from consuming alcohol in any form.
> Unless you require it for medical purpose , but still than only if
> absolutely necessary or in emergency or life threatening situation
> ,survival.
Hello Azura,
Besides alcohol, I think there are other things that God has forbidden us
from. They include making lies about others and in making accusations
without backing them up.
But some people are only good at pointing "this and that are wrong" when it
involves others. When it comes to *them* and their wrongful ways, they'd
simply retreat into a shell and be in denial.
Would you agree that these are HYPOCRITES??
Have a nice day and a productive weekend.
Dr. Daud
azura a.n.
> Besides alcohol, I think there are other things that God has forbidden us
> from. They include making lies about others and in making accusations
> without backing them up.
>
> But some people are only good at pointing "this and that are wrong" when it
> involves others. When it comes to *them* and their wrongful ways, they'd
> simply retreat into a shell and be in denial.
>
> Would you agree that these are HYPOCRITES??
>
> Have a nice day and a productive weekend.
>
> Dr. Daud
whatever
GSC
I do not understand your reply, azura a.n.
The good doctor, Dr. Daud had put forward some pertinent questions. But you
had only answered "whatever". Can you clarify it for dear old me, please?
Have a nice day.
Gian Singh Grewal
ardeedee
Jesus turned water into wine for a wedding feast of his mother's friends
just before he started his ministry work.
For this reason I have always considered it non-sinful to drink wine as the
alcohol content is low and makes you healthy and cholesterol free.
Where does it say in the Koran that alcohol in even small quantities is bad?
"azura a.n." <azu...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
news:40179FBA...@streamyx.com...
Dol Meninjau
====
"Pan" <panNO...@musician.org> wrote in message
news:f02f101j9n4554el9...@4ax.com...
> Pardon me for cross-posting. I am a subscriber to s.c.m and don't
> frequent a.r.i. I'd be curious to have knowledgeable responses from
> anywhere and also to know how Malaysian Muslims answer this question.
====
huwiiiiiiih. how pompously presumptious.
Ma Min
act.
"Dol Meninjau" <ras...@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bv8lus$8q4$1...@news4.jaring.my...
Abdul Malek Zakaria
@news4.jaring.my:
Kat STAR dulu depa masak ikan kerisi pakai wine
jafar
To cook with wine is haram as the alcohol is derived from grapes.
--
jafar
Dekoyy
and definitely you will get the perfect answer.....
"jafar" <m...@home.fr> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.28....@home.fr...
jay
>Yes.
we'll leave this to the ones most knowledgable.
>To cook with wine is haram as the alcohol is derived from grapes.
you are mixing wine-alcohol-grapes.
alcochol can be dreived from many sources not just grapes.
wines can be made from not just grapes. there is wine made from
apples, crab apples, banana, plum, and most fruits that have a
resaonable amount of sugar. it is that is found in these fruits that
gets fermented and converted to alcohol by the yeast.
here is one definition of wine:
a beverage made of the fermented juice of any of various other fruits
or plants.
jafar
similar question.
Q: Yeast produces carbon dioxide and ethanol (AKA alcohol) in the
bread-making process. However, the alcohol boils and/or evaporates off
while it is being baked. So the question is whether or not it is okay to
use alcohol for cooking if it will evaporate or boil off during the
cooking process, leaving the taste?
A: It is not permissible to cook in alcohol even if it evaporates in the
process. and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai
--
jafar
jay
and where in the koran is that quoted?
Dol Meninjau
news:Xns947F2E78F...@202.188.95.17...
> "Dol Meninjau" <ras...@pd.jaring.my> wrote in news:bv8lus$8q4$1
> @news4.jaring.my:
>
> > sure why not. as long as the wine is kosher. there, satisfied?
> >
> > ====
> > "Pan" <panNO...@musician.org> wrote in message
question.
> > ====
> >
> > huwiiiiiiih. how pompously presumptious.
> >
> Kat STAR dulu depa masak ikan kerisi pakai wine
heeeeh. heeeeh. heh. ikan kerisi, ikan jeket keluli ikan keronge, gulai
ikan kembong hanyir, semuanya di masak pakai wine yang dibuat dari air
seluar dalam "pot" anak dara saibon.
yang hang telan selepas membanjiri pinggan nasi dengan setengah botol kicap
cap ayam kicap mohd nor bekas perajurit. sesudah itu membuang rasa gatal di
lidah dan loya di tekak dengan sesedut dua rokok benson kongsi 5 orang,
kalau tak 10, dalam stor dorm black house?
heh heh heh. tak sangka jadi orang jugak hang ni yerk?
Confused
haram (but there are a lot of Muslim bartenders and even MAS sterwardess are
Muslims), selling, manufacturing and getting involved directly or indirectly
is such acts is also haram. And we are all involved as we are paying taxes
to a government that promotes and legalised the manufacturing, selling and
distribution of alcoholic drinks? Aren't we?
"azura a.n." <azu...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
news:40179FBA...@streamyx.com...
>
>
mn
+++
"Pan" <panNO...@musician.org> wrote in message
news:f02f101j9n4554el9...@4ax.com...
...
>
> So suppose someone wants to cook a chicken in a pot with wine. If the
...
mn
the tolerance level for muslim's comsumption?
+++
"azura a.n." <azu...@streamyx.com> wrote in message
news:40179FBA...@streamyx.com...
...
> Well, God has forbidden us from consuming alcohol in any form.
> Unless you require it for medical purpose , but still than only if
absolutely
> necessary or in emergency or life threatening situation ,survival.
...
Ahmad Sayuthi
> "Abdul Malek Zakaria" <mal...@softhome.net> wrote in message
> heeeeh. heeeeh. heh. ikan kerisi, ikan jeket keluli ikan keronge,
> gulai ikan kembong hanyir, semuanya di masak pakai wine yang dibuat
> dari air seluar dalam "pot" anak dara saibon.
Ikan jeket ni (ikan kongae ke?) rupa-rupanya all-time favourite bagi
kontraktor-kontraktor asrama sejak beberapa generasi. Kalau masak kat
rumah, memang sedap jugak kalau taruh sambal dan nyior goreng kat dalam.
Tapi kalau setakat goreng aje... tambah pulak bila dah sejuk...
Masa aku jadi warden asrama 20 tahun dulu, TERPAKSA makan jugak apa yang
bebudak makan. Yang sorang lagi warden tu cerdik betul - time dekat makan
malam, dia pergi rumah relative-relative dia kat sekitar Pasir Mas. Masa tu
budget atas satu kepala RM3. Rasa sedih betul aku kena telan lauk-lauk yang
tak sedap ni. "Ayam goreng masak pedas" - kalau baca menu memang sedap.
Tapi bila makan, dengan dia punya kulit yang boleh buat getah SMR...
Ada satu kali tu, budak check kendi air sirap tersumbat... tengok punya
tengok, ada sekor katak puru mampus dok blocking. Uwerkkk!!
Ahmad Sayuthi
> "Dol Meninjau" <ras...@pd.jaring.my> wrote in news:bv8lus$8q4$1
Kalau nak kira dulu punya cerita, aku ada ingat masa sports day sekolah
aku, diorang buat minuman "light refreshments" campur dengan beer:)
Pan
I am frankly baffled by your response. What did you think was pompous
or presumptuous? I'm curious to know, but I also know it was a
misunderstanding on your part.
Pan
wrote:
>dear Pan, it's best if you refer to the Quran and Hadis about your question
>and definitely you will get the perfect answer.....
I'm sure some Hadis or other deals with this question, but I don't
know whether the Qur'an deals with it in the detail that I asked for.
If there happens to be a web site where I can find Hadis in accurate
English translations, categorized in some way that I can have a decent
idea how reliable they are considered to be (as we all know that some
are considered more reliable than others), I would love to bookmark
it.
Best,
Pan
>try www.islamqa.com for clues.
Thanks for that link. I have bookmarked it and will look through it.
Best,
Pan
Thank you very much, Jafar, and thanks to the others who answered my
question.
Best,
Pan
I want to add that this is perfect because the friend I was asking
this question for is South African, and so is Mufti Ebrahim.
bob day
therefore plenty of alcohol in it? This is supposed to be a Malay delicacynews:6p6h10107bhohksuo...@4ax.com...
Observer
Does this Mufti speak to God?
So why the hell is his answer relevant?
Observer
"Confused" <id_...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:40187796$1...@news.tm.net.my...
> Not only cooking or consuming alcohol is haram, but serving alcohol is
also
> haram (but there are a lot of Muslim bartenders and even MAS sterwardess
are
> Muslims),
So will you be giving them jobs if they are
FIRED or resign from their jobs because
they do not serve alcohol?
How about those Arab BONGOK in the planes?
Should these stewardess still serve them
alcohol......?
> selling, manufacturing and getting involved directly or indirectly
> is such acts is also haram.
So WHAT THE HELL ARE MUSLIMS
suppose to live on MORON?
Tell us where you live so that all these Muslims
can ask you for money..
> And we are all involved as we are paying taxes
> to a government that promotes and legalised the manufacturing, selling and
> distribution of alcoholic drinks? Aren't we?
So the answer is to be like the Taliban
where they do not drink or serve alcohol
but they start killing their own citizens over
petty stuffs?
Observer
> I'm sure some Hadis or other deals with this question, but I don't
> know whether the Qur'an deals with it in the detail that I asked for.
The Quran forbids "khamar" or alcohol.
> If there happens to be a web site where I can find Hadis in accurate
> English translations, categorized in some way that I can have a decent
> idea how reliable they are considered to be (as we all know that some
> are considered more reliable than others), I would love to bookmark
> it.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
jafar
> If there happens to be a web site where I can find Hadis in accurate
> English translations, categorized in some way that I can have a decent
> idea how reliable they are considered to be (as we all know that some
> are considered more reliable than others), I would love to bookmark
> it.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
I have that one in my bookmarks. :)
--
jafar
JS
doesn't have grapes - so they ban it for Muslims - clever ! sour grapes !
JS
"jafar" <m...@home.fr> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.28....@home.fr...
The Department of Defense
> I want to add that this is perfect because the friend I was asking
> this question for is South African, and so is Mufti Ebrahim.
Mufti Ebrahim is a vile and disgusting man....here is what he has to say
about FGM... The jerk endorces it....
Question:
What does Islam (Holy Quran, Shariah, Hadith) say , if at all, about the
female circucision or FGM - Female Genital Mutilation? Is it permissible or
not permissible? Thank you
Answer:
Assalaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuhu
1. Circumcision for males is Waajib (compulsory) according to Imaam Abu
Hanifa. If circumcision will hinder a person from accepting Islam then
accepting Islam should be given preference over circumcision.
2. It is Mustahabb (commendable) for females to circumcise. It is narrated
in an authentic Hadith quoted from Abu Dawood Shareef that during the
Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)'s time there was a woman in Madinah
who used to perform circumsicion for women (Fathul Bari vol. 16 p. 353)
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.
ir. hj. othman bin hj. ahmad
>
> Well, God has forbidden us from consuming alcohol in any form.
It is true finally but not in the early stages of Islam.
> Unless you require it for medical purpose , but still than only if absolutely
> necessary or in emergency or life threatening situation ,survival.
>
> I believe cooking with wine will still be consider haram.
> It does not matter whether there are microns of it or a gallon .
> Muslim and alcohol should not have any business together in the first place
> and personally I would not take like to take that risk .
This is an extremist view and overly cautions. It is not wrong and is
prudent.
Most Malaysian muslims already use alcohol in their cooking especially
bread.
They use yeast fermented in rice and use it to cook bread and sold
openly.
They also sell tapi nasi(fermented rice) and pulut(fermented glutinous
rice),
which has a high alcohol content but never enough to intoxicate
because of the
large amount of rice mixed with it. Separated and distilled, it
becomes
tuak, or just tapai(rice wine). I love tapi nasi.
Our religious officers never forbid these fermented stuff, not only
rice, but
fruits.
The quran never forbid alcohol strongly unlike murder, thefts etc.
The conclusion is simple, as long as the alcohol appear in very minute
quantities, not enough to intoxicate no matter how much you eat, it
does not
matter but we cannot take these food while praying. Even alcohol in
perfumes
is forbidden to be used when praying although wearing perfumes is
encouraged.
So cooking food marinated with alcohol should be alright, provided it
is
well cooked later on.
jay
hj. ahmad) wrote:
>"azura a.n." <azu...@streamyx.com> wrote in message news:<40179FBA...@streamyx.com>...
>...
>>
>> Hello Pan
>>
>> Well, God has forbidden us from consuming alcohol in any form.
>
>It is true finally but not in the early stages of Islam.
what, god changed her mind in the later stages? aiyo, othman the only
time you open you mouth is to take one foot out and put the other in.
keep working, soon you'll evolve to be able to put both of them in.
lol.
btw, when you heat wine, as you would in cooking, all the alcohol
evaporates. ok?
>
>> Unless you require it for medical purpose , but still than only if absolutely
>> necessary or in emergency or life threatening situation ,survival.
>>
>> I believe cooking with wine will still be consider haram.
>> It does not matter whether there are microns of it or a gallon .
>> Muslim and alcohol should not have any business together in the first place
>> and personally I would not take like to take that risk .
>
>This is an extremist view and overly cautions. It is not wrong and is
>prudent.
>Most Malaysian muslims already use alcohol in their cooking especially
>bread.
they do?????? how?
>They use yeast fermented in rice and use it to cook bread and sold
>openly.
>They also sell tapi nasi(fermented rice) and pulut(fermented glutinous
>rice),
>which has a high alcohol content but never enough to intoxicate
>because of the
>large amount of rice mixed with it. Separated and distilled, it
>becomes
>tuak, or just tapai(rice wine). I love tapi nasi.
you are truly stoopid. high alcochol but not enough to intoxicate?
lol.
>
>Our religious officers never forbid these fermented stuff, not only
>rice, but
>fruits.
your religious officers are more interested in peeping into other
people's bedroom and toilets.
>
>The quran never forbid alcohol strongly unlike murder, thefts etc.
>
>The conclusion is simple, as long as the alcohol appear in very minute
>quantities, not enough to intoxicate no matter how much you eat, it
>does not
>matter but we cannot take these food while praying. Even alcohol in
>perfumes
>is forbidden to be used when praying although wearing perfumes is
>encouraged.
>So cooking food marinated with alcohol should be alright, provided it
>is
>well cooked later on.
well cooked? lol. the minute you heat alcochol above certain
tempreature (well below boiling point) it starts to evaporate. even
at room tempreature it starts to evaporate lah.
>
>
>
Abdul Malek Zakaria
news:j8jj10hsf25bdu5j9...@4ax.com:
Read Umar Khayyam's Rubaiyat then you would understand why wine is good for
health. Since I consider Umar Khayyam an Islamic hero, I find wine as
tasteful as beer. An excerpt from Rubaiyat:-
1) How much more of the mosque, of prayer and fasting?
Better go drunk and begging round the taverns.
Khayyam, drink wine, for soon this clay of yours
Will make a cup, bowl, one day a jar.
3) Drink wine, for long you’ll sleep beneath the soil,
Without companion, lover, friend or mate.
But keep this sorry secret to yourself:
The withered tulip never blooms again.
michael
>
>
>"jafar" <m...@home.fr> wrote in message
>news:pan.2004.01.28...@home.fr...
>> Ok, here is what Mufti Ebrahim Desai had to say at www.islam.tc on a
>> similar question.
>
>
>Does this Mufti speak to God?
>So why the hell is his answer relevant?
I am surprised that the faithfuls do not refer to their
Holy Book for an answer to Pan's question.
Or is it because no answer to this can be found in the
Holy Koran ?
regards,
michael ... afn2...@afn.org
Pan
<obser...@yahoo1.com> wrote:
[snip]
>So the answer is to be like the Taliban
>where they do not drink or serve alcohol
>but they start killing their own citizens over
>petty stuffs?
Surely not, but just to argue the other side of this with you, there
are many occupations that don't necessarily involve serving alcohol,
and if someone believes it's haram to serve alcohol, they'll look for
employment in any of those numerous occupations.
Best,
Pan
[snip]
>btw, when you heat wine, as you would in cooking, all the alcohol
>evaporates. ok?
[snip]
Depends how long you cook.
Pan
wrote:
>What about the rice cake called tapir which is actually fermented rice and
>therefore plenty of alcohol in it? This is supposed to be a Malay delicacy
And it is. And I got high once when I ate the tapai from the bottom of
the bag at the age of 10. But my friend is in South Africa, and he
also would rather avoid any possibility of creating a problem for his
Muslim friends when they come for dinner at his house.
Do the Cape Malays make tapai?
Best,
Pan
<obser...@yahoo1.com> wrote:
>
>"jafar" <m...@home.fr> wrote in message
>news:pan.2004.01.28...@home.fr...
>> Ok, here is what Mufti Ebrahim Desai had to say at www.islam.tc on a
>> similar question.
>
>
>Does this Mufti speak to God?
>So why the hell is his answer relevant?
[snip]
It's relevant to a non-Muslim's consideration for his Muslim friends
in the same country where Mufti Ebrahim is - South Africa.
Pan
<obser...@yahoo1.com> wrote:
>
>"Pan" <panNO...@musician.org> wrote in message
>news:586h105p296shueu1...@4ax.com...
>> I'm sure some Hadis or other deals with this question, but I don't
>> know whether the Qur'an deals with it in the detail that I asked for.
>
>
>The Quran forbids "khamar" or alcohol.
Right. The question was about using wine in cooking, if the alcohol
all boiled off or boiled off to the extent that intoxication is
impossible. But there are clearly enough "No"s to this question for it
to be advisable for my friend to use no alcohol in any cooking for his
Muslim friends.
>> If there happens to be a web site where I can find Hadis in accurate
>> English translations, categorized in some way that I can have a decent
>> idea how reliable they are considered to be (as we all know that some
>> are considered more reliable than others), I would love to bookmark
>> it.
>
>
>http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
Thanks a lot!
Pan
>Wine is a common drink in Europe and Middle East ! Perhaps Saudi Arabia
>doesn't have grapes - so they ban it for Muslims - clever ! sour grapes !
>
>JS
I don't see your point here. Drunkenness and alcoholism are certainly
very harmful, and Islam is by no means unique in mandating abstention
from drinking alcohol. You probably know that there have been plenty
of Christians who have considered alcohol the most effective tool of
the Devil and preached abstention.
Observer
"michael" <d1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bvd3uo$r1aoo$2...@ID-170766.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >Does this Mufti speak to God?
> >So why the hell is his answer relevant?
>
> I am surprised that the faithfuls do not refer to their
> Holy Book for an answer to Pan's question.
You should be alarmed.
That there are possibly billions of zombies
who claim to be Muslims but can't answer
a very fundamental question about their religion
and need some idiot to tell them what their
God wants.
> Or is it because no answer to this can be found in the
> Holy Koran ?
Yes there is.
jay
>On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:18:56 -0600, jay <j...@lake.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>btw, when you heat wine, as you would in cooking, all the alcohol
>>evaporates. ok?
>[snip]
>
>Depends how long you cook.
i think once you get it to certain tempreature, all the acochol
evaporates. it would be a good high school experiment to see the
tempreature at wihich all alcohol evaporates completely from wine.
and most of the recipes i've seen that uses wine, calls for it to be
added when the dish is quite hot or heat the dish with the wine in it
for quite some time.
Observer
"ir. hj. othman bin hj. ahmad" <oth...@tm.net.my> wrote in message
news:b40b33dc.04012...@posting.google.com...
> Most Malaysian muslims already use alcohol in their cooking especially
> bread.
That do not make it right...dumbo.
> They use yeast fermented in rice and use it to cook bread and sold
> openly.
> They also sell tapi nasi(fermented rice) and pulut(fermented glutinous
> rice),
> which has a high alcohol content but never enough to intoxicate
> because of the
> large amount of rice mixed with it. Separated and distilled, it
> becomes
> tuak, or just tapai(rice wine). I love tapi nasi.
Which explains why you try to very
hard to justify it...dumbo
> Our religious officers never forbid these fermented stuff, not only
> rice, but
> fruits.
Your religious officers are also PEEPING TOMS.
> The quran never forbid alcohol strongly unlike murder, thefts etc.
So now you claim to be an expert in
the Quran?.....LOL
> The conclusion is simple, as long as the alcohol appear in very minute
> quantities, not enough to intoxicate no matter how much you eat, it
> does not
> matter but we cannot take these food while praying.
And you have God's words with
you to prove it?
> Even alcohol in
> perfumes
> is forbidden to be used when praying although wearing perfumes is
> encouraged.
> So cooking food marinated with alcohol should be alright, provided it
> is
> well cooked later on.
"Should be alright"?
Wow.....you must be a "scientist" too eh?...LOL
Observer
> >The Quran forbids "khamar" or alcohol.
>
> Right. The question was about using wine in cooking, if the alcohol
> all boiled off or boiled off to the extent that intoxication is
> impossible. But there are clearly enough "No"s to this question for it
> to be advisable for my friend to use no alcohol in any cooking for his
> Muslim friends.
The wording in the Quran is:
3. AL BAQARAH (2:219)
They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is
great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than
their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say: that
which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that
haply ye may reflect
6. AL MAA-IDAH (5:90)
O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining
arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that
ye may succeed.
So based on the above...my take is that its up to
individual how they want to interpret the verses and
practice this abstention for themselves.
I believe the verses are self explanatory as to how
one should handle the situation.
Just like smoking...we can only tell the smokers
that its bad for their health....but if they insist on
smoking cigarettes and run the risk of cancer and
other ailments.....then its for them to suffer the
consequences...if any.
Observer
> >Does this Mufti speak to God?
> >So why the hell is his answer relevant?
> [snip]
>
> It's relevant to a non-Muslim's consideration for his Muslim friends
> in the same country where Mufti Ebrahim is - South Africa.
Then perhap the question should be:
"Do Muftis THINK that wine is haram?"
Muftis have no power to make anything haram...
Nor are their words absolute in the correctness of
whether anything is actually forbidden by God.....though
they may give their own learned opinion for those that
want to use and follow their advice.....just like we heed the words
of scientists when we think it makes sense.
But then...are their opinions absolutely correct?
Definitely not!
So thats the distinction I tried to make.
Kabah Wabah
was started by an evil, murdering, raping, thieving, child molesting
sub human BASTARD called mohammad.
Pan wrote:
> Pardon me for cross-posting. I am a subscriber to s.c.m and don't
> frequent a.r.i. I'd be curious to have knowledgeable responses from
> anywhere and also to know how Malaysian Muslims answer this question.
>
> So suppose someone wants to cook a chicken in a pot with wine. If the
> alcohol all evaporates and the chicken and all other ingredients used
> were all halal and cooked in a halal pot with halal utensils and
> served on halal plates, is the dish still haram? What if there may be
> a trace of alcohol remaining but no possibility of intoxication from
> such a small amount?
>
> I look forward to your replies with interest. Thank you very much.
jay
<obser...@yahoo1.com> wrote:
>
>> Our religious officers never forbid these fermented stuff, not only
>> rice, but
>> fruits.
>
>Your religious officers are also PEEPING TOMS.
wait, didn't i just say that? lol.
>
Pan
>On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:12:08 GMT, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:18:56 -0600, jay <j...@lake.com> wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>>btw, when you heat wine, as you would in cooking, all the alcohol
>>>evaporates. ok?
>>[snip]
>>
>>Depends how long you cook.
>
>
>i think once you get it to certain tempreature, all the acochol
>evaporates. it would be a good high school experiment to see the
>tempreature at wihich all alcohol evaporates completely from wine.
[snip]
Someone did a study recently on a web site I participate in. I don't
have a link handy but if I find it, I'll post it.
Apparently, different percentages of alcohol remain depending on how
much is added, how long it cooks, etc., but there is often a good deal
more remaining than one would expect.
Pan
As always, it's a valid distinction, though not for my friend's
purposes.
Pan
Seems like a valid interpretation, on the face of it. And I note that
what's referenced is strong drink, not wine used in cooking and no
longer in an intoxicating form. However, wouldn't you agree that a
non-Muslim cooking for a Muslim should avoid any ambiguous things like
cooking with wine, purely out of consideration, unless s/he knows
her/his Muslim guest would feel fine about it?
Best,
fairplay
>
> Apparently, different percentages of alcohol remain depending on how
> much is added, how long it cooks, etc., but there is often a good deal
> more remaining than one would expect.
Never heard of anyone getting drunk eating food cooked with wine.
So is it alcohol or the result of it ( drunkenness ) that bothers the
muslim in food. Good mustard like GREY POUPON is made with wine.
ir. hj. othman bin hj. ahmad
> "ir. hj. othman bin hj. ahmad" <oth...@tm.net.my> wrote in message
> news:b40b33dc.04012...@posting.google.com...
> > Most Malaysian muslims already use alcohol in their cooking especially
> > bread.
...
>
> > The quran never forbid alcohol strongly unlike murder, thefts etc.
>
> So now you claim to be an expert in
> the Quran?.....LOL
Anyone can quote the quran. You don't need to be an expert to be able
to explain and spread the words of the quran, unlike Christianity or
other religions. Please do not confuse Islam with the other religions.
...
>
> "Should be alright"?
> Wow.....you must be a "scientist" too eh?...LOL
I am indeed a scientist, you idiot.
ir. hj. othman bin hj. ahmad
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:00:28 +0000, jafar <m...@home.fr> wrote:
>
...
> alcochol can be dreived from many sources not just grapes.
They forget about vinegar and soya sauce.
ir. hj. othman bin hj. ahmad
...
>
> Or is it because no answer to this can be found in the
> Holy Koran ?
It is there but we have to find it.
>
> regards,
> michael ... afn2...@afn.org
Pan
hj. ahmad) wrote:
>Anyone can quote the quran. You don't need to be an expert to be able
>to explain and spread the words of the quran, unlike Christianity or
>other religions. Please do not confuse Islam with the other religions.
[snip]
Digging yourself a hole, eh? What are you saying about Christianity
and the Bible?
larry kim
What about the air that is contaminated by pigs and dogs through their
breathing in and out. Shouldn't the 'good' muslims stop inhaling this
haram air also!!!!
jay
hj. ahmad) wrote:
>d1...@hotmail.com (michael) wrote in message news:<bvd3uo$r1aoo$2...@ID-170766.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> In article <4018...@news.starhub.net.sg>, obser...@yahoo1.com says...
>
>...
>>
>> Or is it because no answer to this can be found in the
>> Holy Koran ?
>
>It is there but we have to find it.
that means, if you shine the light just right you may just find it.
lol.
>
>>
>> regards,
>> michael ... afn2...@afn.org
Pan
>What about the air that is contaminated by pigs and dogs through their
>breathing in and out. Shouldn't the 'good' muslims stop inhaling this
>haram air also!!!!
Don't be silly. People can live very easily without drinking alcohol,
but can't live without breathing.
Religious laws are often logical, _providing_ that one accepts the
opening premises. Even then, sometimes the logic behind them is
incomprehensible and believers resort to the explanation that "We
observe these laws because God told us to; God knows best and must
have had a reason, even if we can't understand it." Clearly, anyone
who doesn't accept the opening premise of a religion's laws will find
them - or at any rate, many of them - absurd. So be it. Live and let
live.
michael
>
>"Observer" <obser...@yahoo1.com> wrote in message news:<401a65da$1...@news.starhub.net.sg>...
>> "ir. hj. othman bin hj. ahmad" <oth...@tm.net.my> wrote in message
>> news:b40b33dc.04012...@posting.google.com...
>> > Most Malaysian muslims already use alcohol in their cooking especially
>> > bread.
>
>...
>>
>> > The quran never forbid alcohol strongly unlike murder, thefts etc.
>>
>> So now you claim to be an expert in
>> the Quran?.....LOL
>
>Anyone can quote the quran. You don't need to be an expert to be able
>to explain and spread the words of the quran, unlike Christianity
Since you mischievously mentioned Christianity ....
I am not an expert and yet I give my interpretations
according to what I understand from the Bible.
Interpretations are never bidding between all believers
and God since we can all read and reason.
Ultimately, it's the individual who must answer to God.
Unlike some fatwas.. :)
>other religions. Please do not confuse Islam with the other religions.
Yes .. we should never confuse Islam with others.
regards,
michael ... afn2...@afn.org
michael
>
>d1...@hotmail.com (michael) wrote in message news:<bvd3uo$r1aoo$2...@ID-170766.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> In article <4018...@news.starhub.net.sg>, obser...@yahoo1.com says...
>
>...
>>
>> Or is it because no answer to this can be found in the
>> Holy Koran ?
>
>It is there but we have to find it.
If it's there, how come you answer without reference to the relevant
verses in your Holy Book ?
regards,
michael ... afn2...@afn.org
Observer
> >> Or is it because no answer to this can be found in the
> >> Holy Koran ?
> >
> >It is there but we have to find it.
>
> If it's there, how come you answer without reference to the relevant
> verses in your Holy Book ?
Ouch.
Now ..now...don't be too hard on him
ok....LOL
Observer
> > > The quran never forbid alcohol strongly unlike murder, thefts etc.
> >
> > So now you claim to be an expert in
> > the Quran?.....LOL
>
> Anyone can quote the quran. You don't need to be an expert to be able
> to explain and spread the words of the quran,
Ahh...but you're NOT quoting the Quran..
You're making a statement that requires you
to actually KNOW the content of the whole
Quran for it to be valid.
How do you know "quran never forbid alcohol"?
Have you actually read it?
Have you actually read EVERY sentence that
you were able to conclude "quran never forbid alcohol "?
Hehe...
>unlike Christianity or
> other religions. Please do not confuse Islam with the other religions.
> >
> > "Should be alright"?
> > Wow.....you must be a "scientist" too eh?...LOL
>
> I am indeed a scientist, you idiot.
Hehe.....than its WORST than I thought.
What kind of scientist makes a statement
that he provides no evidence of?
Scientist kucing kurap yer?....
Are you the Gomen scientist from Malaysia
who's only there for show whilst its the Mat Salleh
scientists that provide the real direction?....
BTW how many research papers have you
published?
How many patents do you hold?
NONE?
LOL
mark
>On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:12:08 GMT, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:18:56 -0600, jay <j...@lake.com> wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>>btw, when you heat wine, as you would in cooking, all the alcohol
>>>evaporates. ok?
>>[snip]
>>
>>Depends how long you cook.
>
>
>i think once you get it to certain tempreature, all the acochol
>evaporates. it would be a good high school experiment to see the
>tempreature at wihich all alcohol evaporates completely from wine.
tsk, tsk, I knew you failed science classes, that is not a secret.
First of all it is not the temperature which determines if alcohol
evaporates but the surface and pressure (actually saturation grade).
The temperature only determines the rate (speed) of evaporation.
And if you really had some chemistry at school you must know
that alcohol binds on some molecules.
Unless the food itself disintegrates.
I advice you better to stick with that course on that cheap
institution in the US.
>and most of the recipes i've seen that uses wine, calls for it to be
>added when the dish is quite hot or heat the dish with the wine in it
>for quite some time.
Huh? What nonense, what recipes is that, hominide?
>
>
>
>
>
>
mark
wrote:
>Pan wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Apparently, different percentages of alcohol remain depending on how
>> much is added, how long it cooks, etc., but there is often a good deal
>> more remaining than one would expect.
>Never heard of anyone getting drunk eating food cooked with wine.
Of course not, you do not put 1.2 liter wine in food meant for one
person.
>So is it alcohol or the result of it ( drunkenness ) that bothers the
>muslim in food. Good mustard like GREY POUPON is made with wine.
delicicious.
Observer
> >Your religious officers are also PEEPING TOMS.
>
> wait, didn't i just say that? lol.
Did you?
Aw...shucks...
Now I have to come up with another original
insult......
LOL
Observer
> >6. AL MAA-IDAH (5:90)
> >O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining
> >arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order
that
> >ye may succeed.
> Seems like a valid interpretation, on the face of it. And I note that
> what's referenced is strong drink,
Maybe the translation I chose was not clear
enough ...(laziness on my part). The Arabic
word that was translated into "strong drink"
is "khamar" which Muslims usually take as alcohol.
Contrast this with another translation from
another source:
[2.219] They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of
them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is
greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend.
Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the
communications, that you may ponder
[5.90] O you who believe! intoxicants and games of chance and (sacrificing
to) stones set up and (dividing by) arrows are only an uncleanness, the
Shaitan's work; shun it therefore that you may be successful.
So there you are...as I said its up to the individual to
interpret the verses to what he/she thinks is the most
accurate as to what they think their God wants them
to do. Afterall who's going to know what you
do in the privacy of your own home.
But if your interest here is to what would be the
best practice when cooking for Muslim friends
in general...it would be wise not to use any alcohol
at all as it would be considered inhospitable if they
are ones that decide to go for the strictest interpretation
for themselves. Thats my take on this issue.
>not wine used in cooking and no
> longer in an intoxicating form.
You have to make that decision yourself based
on the verses I just gave you. Strong drink...or
intoxicants...used in cooking ...or neat....you decide
what would be most applicable for yourself.....or
anyone for that matter ....as each is responsible for
their own interpretation and have to bear the consequences
, if any.
> However, wouldn't you agree that a
> non-Muslim cooking for a Muslim should avoid any ambiguous things like
> cooking with wine, purely out of consideration, unless s/he knows
> her/his Muslim guest would feel fine about it?
Thats would absolutely be a very wise
standpoint to take IMO....ie...being more on the
safe side when unsure.
Norma
scientist and a wonderful cook, I can tell you that the alcohol evaporates
at a very low level of heat. Use any text or book you wish to consult, but
that is the fact. Physical properties were put into place by the creator,
so let's use them. What you do get in cooking with wine, is the wonderful
taste of the fruit to enhance many a fine dish. Norma
"Observer" <obser...@yahoo1.com> wrote in message
news:401c...@news.starhub.net.sg...
Observer
"Norma" <norm...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:101p6l5...@corp.supernews.com...
> I'll simply top-post my reply, because the answer is so obvious. As a
> scientist and a wonderful cook, I can tell you that the alcohol evaporates
> at a very low level of heat. Use any text or book you wish to consult,
but
> that is the fact.
Yes Norma...call it whatever you want.
Its the practioners' decision as to what
abstention means to them. Its their life.
The thread is about whether "cooking with
wine is haram". I have given my take on what
the Quran has to say about this. I do not tell others
how they should run their life based on my interpretation.
I have gave them a direction for them to consider.
Thats all.
> Physical properties were put into place by the creator,
> so let's use them.
Unfortunately...this is NOT a fact.
It is your interpretation.
As a civilized society...we do not force
our interpretation upon others....we may share
our views...but we must never confuse our
views as facts and then insist others treat them
as facts.
Don't you agree?
>What you do get in cooking with wine, is the wonderful
> taste of the fruit to enhance many a fine dish. Norma
Thanks for you input though.
jay
wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:21:51 -0600, fairplay <fair...@hiwaay.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Pan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Apparently, different percentages of alcohol remain depending on how
>>> much is added, how long it cooks, etc., but there is often a good deal
>>> more remaining than one would expect.
>>Never heard of anyone getting drunk eating food cooked with wine.
>Of course not, you do not put 1.2 liter wine in food meant for one
>person.
>>So is it alcohol or the result of it ( drunkenness ) that bothers the
>>muslim in food. Good mustard like GREY POUPON is made with wine.
>delicicious.
it is grey poupon monkey. not grey poopon that you are so fond of
when cleaning toilets. lol.
jay
wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:43:31 -0600, jay <j...@lake.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:12:08 GMT, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:18:56 -0600, jay <j...@lake.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>btw, when you heat wine, as you would in cooking, all the alcohol
>>>>evaporates. ok?
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>Depends how long you cook.
>>
>>
>>i think once you get it to certain tempreature, all the acochol
>>evaporates. it would be a good high school experiment to see the
>>tempreature at wihich all alcohol evaporates completely from wine.
>tsk, tsk, I knew you failed science classes, that is not a secret.
>
>First of all it is not the temperature which determines if alcohol
>evaporates but the surface and pressure (actually saturation grade).
>The temperature only determines the rate (speed) of evaporation.
>And if you really had some chemistry at school you must know
>that alcohol binds on some molecules.
>Unless the food itself disintegrates.
>I advice you better to stick with that course on that cheap
>institution in the US.
saturation grade? lol. trying to be a scientist again monkey.
monkey, if you don't know about alcochol or wine ask me ok. don't go
on about binding of alcohol to food. lol. the only one that is
disintergrating is you.
have you had your grey poop-on?
>
>
>>and most of the recipes i've seen that uses wine, calls for it to be
>>added when the dish is quite hot or heat the dish with the wine in it
>>for quite some time.
>Huh? What nonense, what recipes is that, hominide?
for you, grey poop-on. lol.
intruder
>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:00:04 +0100, mark <mark_i...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:43:31 -0600, jay <j...@lake.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:12:08 GMT, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:18:56 -0600, jay <j...@lake.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>>btw, when you heat wine, as you would in cooking, all the alcohol
>>>>>evaporates. ok?
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>Depends how long you cook.
>>>
>>>
>>>i think once you get it to certain tempreature, all the acochol
>>>evaporates. it would be a good high school experiment to see the
>>>tempreature at wihich all alcohol evaporates completely from wine.
>>tsk, tsk, I knew you failed science classes, that is not a secret.
>>
>>First of all it is not the temperature which determines if alcohol
>>evaporates but the surface and pressure (actually saturation grade).
>>The temperature only determines the rate (speed) of evaporation.
>>And if you really had some chemistry at school you must know
>>that alcohol binds on some molecules.
>>Unless the food itself disintegrates.
>>I advice you better to stick with that course on that cheap
>>institution in the US.
>saturation grade? lol. trying to be a scientist again monkey.
What is the use of explaining to idiots who underpormed intellectually
at school in Malaysia. Getting no descent job in Malaysia, so visit
some cheap US institution?
>
>monkey, if you don't know about alcochol or wine ask me ok. don't go
>on about binding of alcohol to food. lol. the only one that is
>disintergrating is you.
English please!
jay
well, shit eater.... i mean grey poop-on eater, how is the toilet
cleaning coming along. will you be going back to your zoo soon?
>
>>
>>monkey, if you don't know about alcochol or wine ask me ok. don't go
>>on about binding of alcohol to food. lol. the only one that is
>>disintergrating is you.
>English please!
english? sure: you are stupid and you like to eat shit.
>>have you had your grey poop-on?
have you? lol.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>and most of the recipes i've seen that uses wine, calls for it to be
>>>>added when the dish is quite hot or heat the dish with the wine in it
>>>>for quite some time.
>>>Huh? What nonense, what recipes is that, hominide?
>>
>>for you, grey poop-on. lol.
lick any toilet bowls for your daily dose of grey poop-on, monkey?
lol.
xtmprs...@erols.com
Pan wrote:
>
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:28:30 +0800, "Dekoyy" <hyp...@streamyx.com>
> wrote:
>
> >dear Pan, it's best if you refer to the Quran and Hadis about your question
> >and definitely you will get the perfect answer.....
>
> I'm sure some Hadis or other deals with this question, but I don't
> know whether the Qur'an deals with it in the detail that I asked for.
>
> If there happens to be a web site where I can find Hadis in accurate
> English translations, categorized in some way that I can have a decent
> idea how reliable they are considered to be (as we all know that some
> are considered more reliable than others), I would love to bookmark
> it.
>
> Best,
>
> Michael
>
> If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.
At arabnews.com there is a section for asking questions like this.
manusia
>
> "jafar" <m...@home.fr> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.01.28...@home.fr...
> > Ok, here is what Mufti Ebrahim Desai had to say at www.islam.tc on a
> > similar question.
>
>
> Does this Mufti speak to God?
> So why the hell is his answer relevant?
tidak pernah lagi aku berjumpa orang yang bodoh lagi tak ada akal macam
Obsrver nin...
ninlah baru pertama kali...
Observer bercakap penuh dengan hujah- yang didasrkan kepada al Quran
tetapi menolak pandangan dan pendapat ulamak
tidakkah bodoh si Observer tu
entah dari mana lah dia mendapat makna-makna bagi ayat Quran tu
entah betul entah tidak
kat dalam group nin ( news://sg.singnet.language.malay ) dia bagitau dia
seorang yang anti hadis
tapi berlagak alim kat sini pulak
sakitlah tu !!!!!
>
>
>
>
> > Q: Yeast produces carbon dioxide and ethanol (AKA alcohol) in the
> > bread-making process. However, the alcohol boils and/or evaporates off
> > while it is being baked. So the question is whether or not it is okay to
> > use alcohol for cooking if it will evaporate or boil off during the
> > cooking process, leaving the taste?
>
>
Observer
"manusia" <man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40893c61$1...@news.tm.net.my...
> > Does this Mufti speak to God?
> > So why the hell is his answer relevant?
>
> tidak pernah lagi aku berjumpa orang yang bodoh lagi tak ada akal macam
> Obsrver nin...
> ninlah baru pertama kali...
> Observer bercakap penuh dengan hujah- yang didasrkan kepada al Quran
> tetapi menolak pandangan dan pendapat ulamak
Hehe...hai sang BONGOK.
Aku cuma tanya....ulamak BONGOK engko
tu pernah bercakap dengan Tuhan atau tidak.
Kenapa tak jawab?
LOL.
> tidakkah bodoh si Observer tu
> entah dari mana lah dia mendapat makna-makna bagi ayat Quran tu
> entah betul entah tidak
Wah...hebatnya hujjah BODOH engko.
Jadi dari mana engko tahu innya tak betul?
Engko pun bercakap dengan Tuhan yer?
LOL.
> kat dalam group nin ( news://sg.singnet.language.malay ) dia bagitau dia
> seorang yang anti hadis
Yer ker?
Cuba tunjukkan bukti sikit.
Oh ya...are BONGOK takkan faham apa
makna buktikan....
LOL.
> tapi berlagak alim kat sini pulak
> sakitlah tu !!!!!
Bila yang aku berlagak.
Yang aku tengok...banyak yang nak berlagak
macam hero Islam...tapi bila disoal fasal ayat
mana mereka buat dalil....terus GELABAH
macam MONYET....LOL.
William S. Hubbard
Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad
> news:4018...@news.starhub.net.sg...
...
Jangan tertipu dengan Observer ini, dia bukannya orang Islam.
> Observer bercakap penuh dengan hujah- yang didasrkan kepada al Quran
Dia suka memetik Quran cebis-cebis sahaja, tanpa mengira yang lainnya.
> tetapi menolak pandangan dan pendapat ulamak
> tidakkah bodoh si Observer tu
> entah dari mana lah dia mendapat makna-makna bagi ayat Quran tu
> entah betul entah tidak
> kat dalam group nin ( news://sg.singnet.language.malay ) dia bagitau dia
> seorang yang anti hadis
Dia itu bukan sahaja anti hadis, tetapi anti-Muhamad, yang betul menunjukkan
bahawa dia bukannya orang Islam.
Dia juga tidak tahu beberapa prinsip Islam yang lain seperti Nabi Isa, Musa
dll. dan pengikut-pengikut mereka.
> tapi berlagak alim kat sini pulak
Alim macam mana kalau anti arab, anti muhammad.
> sakitlah tu !!!!!
Dalam perkara masakan, lebih baik kita merujuk kepada ulama kita di Malaysia
dan Indonesia. Mereka lebih memahami cara kita memasak dan keadaan semasa
dan setempat dari Ulama dari Afrika Selatan. Mazab mereka juga berlainan.
Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad
> "manusia" <man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40893c61$1...@news.tm.net.my...
> > > Does this Mufti speak to God?
> > > So why the hell is his answer relevant?
...
> > Observer bercakap penuh dengan hujah- yang didasrkan kepada al Quran
> > tetapi menolak pandangan dan pendapat ulamak
>
> Hehe...hai sang BONGOK.
> Aku cuma tanya....ulamak BONGOK engko
> tu pernah bercakap dengan Tuhan atau tidak.
> Kenapa tak jawab?
Sebab engkau terlalu bodoh. seorang Islam akan faham tentang konsep Islam.
...
> Wah...hebatnya hujjah BODOH engko.
> Jadi dari mana engko tahu innya tak betul?
> Engko pun bercakap dengan Tuhan yer?
Orang Islam sejati, cakap tentang bercakap dengan Tuhan pun tidak berani,
apatah lagi bertanya tentang hal ini.
Ini bukti bahawa engkau tidak faham tentang konsep Islam lagi.
...
> Yer ker?
> Cuba tunjukkan bukti sikit.
> Oh ya...are BONGOK takkan faham apa
> makna buktikan....
Orang tunjuk bukti pun engkau tidak percaya. Tanya pula yang
bukan-bukan seperti "bercakap dengan tuhan".
Tuhan beri kita akal untuk berfikir, bukan untuk becakap dengan tuhan, bodoh.
...
> macam hero Islam...tapi bila disoal fasal ayat
> mana mereka buat dalil....terus GELABAH
> macam MONYET....LOL.
Siapa yang mengelabah? Engkau yang mengelabah dengan berbagai alasan dan
soalan-soalan yang tidak masuk akal. Seperti telah bercakap dengan tuhan kah?
Orang Islam tidak akan tanya perkara begini.
manusia
>
> "manusia" <man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40893c61$1...@news.tm.net.my...
> > > Does this Mufti speak to God?
> > > So why the hell is his answer relevant?
> >
> > tidak pernah lagi aku berjumpa orang yang bodoh lagi tak ada akal macam
> > Obsrver nin...
> > ninlah baru pertama kali...
> > Observer bercakap penuh dengan hujah- yang didasrkan kepada al Quran
> > tetapi menolak pandangan dan pendapat ulamak
>
> Hehe...hai sang BONGOK.
> Aku cuma tanya....ulamak BONGOK engko
> tu pernah bercakap dengan Tuhan atau tidak.
> Kenapa tak jawab?
> LOL.
>
Aku tiap- tiap hari bercakap ngan Tuhan
kamu je yang jahil tapi tak atu
bongok tapi tak tau bongok
>
>
> > tidakkah bodoh si Observer tu
> > entah dari mana lah dia mendapat makna-makna bagi ayat Quran tu
> > entah betul entah tidak
>
> Wah...hebatnya hujjah BODOH engko.
> Jadi dari mana engko tahu innya tak betul?
> Engko pun bercakap dengan Tuhan yer?
> LOL.
>
Yelah engkao cuma beri makna dan nombor ayat saja
tapi ayatnya mana?
jadi bagaimana kita orang nak tau yang makna yang engko beri tu menepati
ayat yang kat dalam Quran
ntah-ntah kau dah tokok tambah ayat tu
alahai bongoknya kau Observer
> > kat dalam group nin ( news://sg.singnet.language.malay ) dia bagitau dia
> > seorang yang anti hadis
>
> Yer ker?
> Cuba tunjukkan bukti sikit.
> Oh ya...are BONGOK takkan faham apa
> makna buktikan....
> LOL.
Yelah kat dalam group sana kau cakap nabi tak kata itu tak nin
habis apa yang nabi kata
kau nak bukti orang dah bagi bukti
tapi bebal kau tu yang taknak terima
kau kata ulamak pakai topeng
topeng apa dia pakai
kau kata ulamak takut mati
kau tidak lihat ke bagaimana sheikh Ahmad Yassin pengasas Hamas tu mati
begitu bermaruah kau tau
apalah bebal sangat kau nin
kau kata hadis dah diubah
dengan sebab dah banyak peredaran zaman
cuba kau buktikan makna yang kau berikan itu betul
tak diubah
kau tentu tidak tau apa itu "makna"
sebab kau bebal
>
> > tapi berlagak alim kat sini pulak
> > sakitlah tu !!!!!
>
> Bila yang aku berlagak.
> Yang aku tengok...banyak yang nak berlagak
> macam hero Islam...tapi bila disoal fasal ayat
> mana mereka buat dalil....terus GELABAH
> macam MONYET....LOL.
>
>
Kakakakah......
kau pulak cakap macam ulamak
tapi tak percayakan ulamak
kalau Observer nak tau
bahawa orang yang tak percayakan ulamak sebenarnya dia adalah orang tidak
percaya apa yang dikata dan dibawa oleh nabi Mohammad sallallohu 'alaihi
wasallam.
Mengapa kau bebal sangat????
manusia
"William S. Hubbard" <bi...@islamsucks.org> wrote in message
news:qCbic.8542$0u6.1611556@attbi_s03...
> Go back to cooking with camel piss.
Mungkin kamu yang terlebih layak masak pakai air kencing unta
kami orang Islam diharamkan memakan najis...
belajarlah agama Islam
mungkin kamu akan tertarik dengan agama Islam
Observer
> > Aku cuma tanya....ulamak BONGOK engko
> > tu pernah bercakap dengan Tuhan atau tidak.
> > Kenapa tak jawab?
> > LOL.
> >
>
> Aku tiap- tiap hari bercakap ngan Tuhan
> kamu je yang jahil tapi tak atu
> bongok tapi tak tau bongok
Hehe...betul ker?
Tapi Tuhan ader bercakap dengan engko
dan ulamak BONGOK engko ke tidak?
Kalu takder...macam mana engko tahu pendapat
engko dan ulamak BONGOK engko tu disetujui
oleh Tuhan?
Nak MENIPU yer?
LOL.
> > Wah...hebatnya hujjah BODOH engko.
> > Jadi dari mana engko tahu innya tak betul?
> > Engko pun bercakap dengan Tuhan yer?
> > LOL.
> >
>
> Yelah engkao cuma beri makna dan nombor ayat saja
> tapi ayatnya mana?
> jadi bagaimana kita orang nak tau yang makna yang engko beri tu menepati
> ayat yang kat dalam Quran
> ntah-ntah kau dah tokok tambah ayat tu
Yer ker?
Bila yang aku tokok tambah?
Macam perkataan "tudung" tu yer...yang
ulamak BONGOK engko kata boleh dilihat
dalam Quran....
Alahai...sang BONGOK....
> alahai bongoknya kau Observer
> > > kat dalam group nin ( news://sg.singnet.language.malay ) dia bagitau
dia
> > > seorang yang anti hadis
> >
> > Yer ker?
> > Cuba tunjukkan bukti sikit.
> > Oh ya...are BONGOK takkan faham apa
> > makna buktikan....
> > LOL.
>
> Yelah kat dalam group sana kau cakap nabi tak kata itu tak nin
> habis apa yang nabi kata
Kah..kah..kah..
Kan aku dah cakap....si PENIPU dah gelabah
apabila diminta bukti. Engko cakap aku ada
"dia bagitau dia seorang yang anti hadis"
Mana dia?
Mana posting aku?
PENIPU....LOL.
> kau nak bukti orang dah bagi bukti
> tapi bebal kau tu yang taknak terima
> kau kata ulamak pakai topeng
> topeng apa dia pakai
> kau kata ulamak takut mati
Hehe...ini dah nampak PENIPU besar.
Cuba nunjukkan posting aku yang ada hujjah
macam yang engko cakap nih...
PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
LOL.
> kau tidak lihat ke bagaimana sheikh Ahmad Yassin pengasas Hamas tu mati
> begitu bermaruah kau tau
Yer ker...
Jadi bila engko nak ganti tempat dia?
PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
LOL.
> apalah bebal sangat kau nin
> kau kata hadis dah diubah
Hehe...bila?
Cuba tunjukkan posting aku yang
berkata gitu...
Alahai sang BONGOK...
LOL.
> dengan sebab dah banyak peredaran zaman
> cuba kau buktikan makna yang kau berikan itu betul
> tak diubah
Eh...nak buat apa?
Ore BONGOK macam engko yang perlu
buktikan yang ianya tak pernah berubah...seperti
ulamak BONGOK engko tu...
> kalau Observer nak tau
> bahawa orang yang tak percayakan ulamak sebenarnya dia adalah orang tidak
> percaya apa yang dikata dan dibawa oleh nabi Mohammad sallallohu 'alaihi
> wasallam.
Haha..bila yang nabi cakap gitu?
Ini karangan engko sendiri yer?
Cuba tunjukkan hadis atau ayat yang
cakap gitu.
PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
LOL.
Observer
> > Go back to cooking with camel piss.
>
> Mungkin kamu yang terlebih layak masak pakai air kencing unta
> kami orang Islam diharamkan memakan najis...
Tu lah..nak berlagak alim...
Alim tai kucing.
Yang dimaksudkan "air kencing unta" tu...ada tertera dalam
hadis yang dianggap Sahih oleh ulamak BONGOK
engko tu.
Sekarang engko nak cakap aper pulak?
Lekas pi minum air kencing unta seperti yang
dianjurkan oleh ulamak BONGOK engko.
(hehe ..kan engko kata hadis Sahih mustahil
pernah diubah....dan ulamak BONGOK engko
tak pernah silap...jadi..lekas lekas lah engko
pi pelihara akan unta kat reban engko tu...supaya
cukup air kencing untuk buat sarapan...LOL.)
> belajarlah agama Islam
> mungkin kamu akan tertarik dengan agama Islam
Hehe...melainkan terjumpa BERUK macam
engko yang terus buat semua ore ketawakan
"Islam" yang engko bawa.
Betul punya BONGOK hero Islam kan
scm nih...
LOL.
Rodrigo Diaz
manusia
>
> "manusia" <man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:408a6...@news.tm.net.my...
> > > Aku cuma tanya....ulamak BONGOK engko
> > > tu pernah bercakap dengan Tuhan atau tidak.
> > > Kenapa tak jawab?
> > > LOL.
> > >
> >
> > Aku tiap- tiap hari bercakap ngan Tuhan
> > kamu je yang jahil tapi tak atu
> > bongok tapi tak tau bongok
>
> Hehe...betul ker?
> Tapi Tuhan ader bercakap dengan engko
> dan ulamak BONGOK engko ke tidak?
>
apalah yang bebal sangat si observer nin
dah nyatalah yang si oserver sekarang nin tak pernah baca alQuran
dan makna dari surah yang diberi juga semuanya tipu dan meragukan
mengapalah aku jumpa orang bongok macam obsrver kat group nin
> Kalu takder...macam mana engko tahu pendapat
> engko dan ulamak BONGOK engko tu disetujui
> oleh Tuhan?
> Nak MENIPU yer?
> LOL.
>
mana pulak engkau tau takda
apalah yang bebal sangat observer nin
dahlah bebal bongok pulak tu
> > > Wah...hebatnya hujjah BODOH engko.
> > > Jadi dari mana engko tahu innya tak betul?
> > > Engko pun bercakap dengan Tuhan yer?
> > > LOL.
> > >
> >
> > Yelah engkao cuma beri makna dan nombor ayat saja
> > tapi ayatnya mana?
> > jadi bagaimana kita orang nak tau yang makna yang engko beri tu menepati
> > ayat yang kat dalam Quran
> > ntah-ntah kau dah tokok tambah ayat tu
>
> Yer ker?
> Bila yang aku tokok tambah?
> Macam perkataan "tudung" tu yer...yang
> ulamak BONGOK engko kata boleh dilihat
> dalam Quran....
> Alahai...sang BONGOK....
>
Kan dah jelas tu sekarang yang engkau menterjemahkan ayat alQuran ikut nafsu
kalau tak ade hukum kat quran buat apa dia orang susah- susah nak pakai
tengok kat perancis sekarang diaorang buat tunjuk perasaan kerana
kerajaannya tak benarkan pelajar sekolah pakai tudung
kalau tak ada kat dalam quran mengapa nak buat tunjuk perasaan?
buat apa nak lawan
apalah bebal sangat observer nin?
>
> > alahai bongoknya kau Observer
>
> > > > kat dalam group nin ( news://sg.singnet.language.malay ) dia bagitau
> dia
> > > > seorang yang anti hadis
> > >
> > > Yer ker?
> > > Cuba tunjukkan bukti sikit.
> > > Oh ya...are BONGOK takkan faham apa
> > > makna buktikan....
> > > LOL.
> >
> > Yelah kat dalam group sana kau cakap nabi tak kata itu tak nin
> > habis apa yang nabi kata
>
>
> Kah..kah..kah..
> Kan aku dah cakap....si PENIPU dah gelabah
> apabila diminta bukti. Engko cakap aku ada
> "dia bagitau dia seorang yang anti hadis"
>
> Mana dia?
> Mana posting aku?
> PENIPU....LOL.
>
>
posting kau tu dah lapuk
macam kau jugak dah lapuk
orang cakap kau tu tokok tambah makna dari alQuran
kau cakap masih lagi macam katak bawah tempurung
alahai bebalnya kau observer
> > kau nak bukti orang dah bagi bukti
> > tapi bebal kau tu yang taknak terima
> > kau kata ulamak pakai topeng
> > topeng apa dia pakai
> > kau kata ulamak takut mati
>
> Hehe...ini dah nampak PENIPU besar.
> Cuba nunjukkan posting aku yang ada hujjah
> macam yang engko cakap nih...
> PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
> LOL.
>
sebab apa aku?
engkao yang patut tunjukkan kat kami
mana satu ayat yang engkao terjemahkan itu
betul ke tidak
apalah yang bebal sangat engkau nin?
>
> > kau tidak lihat ke bagaimana sheikh Ahmad Yassin pengasas Hamas tu mati
> > begitu bermaruah kau tau
>
> Yer ker...
> Jadi bila engko nak ganti tempat dia?
> PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
> LOL.
>
Insya Allah
>
> > apalah bebal sangat kau nin
> > kau kata hadis dah diubah
>
> Hehe...bila?
> Cuba tunjukkan posting aku yang
> berkata gitu...
> Alahai sang BONGOK...
> LOL.
>
posting kau tu dah lapuk
dah tak laku lagi kau tau?
>
> > dengan sebab dah banyak peredaran zaman
> > cuba kau buktikan makna yang kau berikan itu betul
> > tak diubah
>
> Eh...nak buat apa?
> Ore BONGOK macam engko yang perlu
> buktikan yang ianya tak pernah berubah...seperti
> ulamak BONGOK engko tu...
>
engkao yang buat perkara mengapa kami kena buktikan
aku ayat yang engkao terjemahkan tu mana
engkau dah bongok ke observer
hai apalah yang bebal sangat awak nin observer
>
>
>
> > kalau Observer nak tau
> > bahawa orang yang tak percayakan ulamak sebenarnya dia adalah orang
tidak
> > percaya apa yang dikata dan dibawa oleh nabi Mohammad sallallohu 'alaihi
> > wasallam.
>
> Haha..bila yang nabi cakap gitu?
> Ini karangan engko sendiri yer?
> Cuba tunjukkan hadis atau ayat yang
> cakap gitu.
> PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
> LOL.
>
kakakkakah.......
gila ke hapa engkau nin
engkau tu anti-hadis
kalau diberi apa pun engkau macam tu jugak
tak ada perubahan apa pun
baik tak payah
baiklah aku bagi tau kat orang yang sudi terima
daripada bagitau kat berok macam engkau
kakakakakakh
apalah yang bebal sangat observer nin?
manusia
>
> "manusia" <man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:408a6...@news.tm.net.my...
> > > Go back to cooking with camel piss.
> >
> > Mungkin kamu yang terlebih layak masak pakai air kencing unta
> > kami orang Islam diharamkan memakan najis...
>
>
> Tu lah..nak berlagak alim...
> Alim tai kucing.
kakakah
gila ke apa awak nin
yang berlagak alim tu awaklah
seorang yang anti- hadis tapi cakap mengalahkan ulamak pulak
alahai bebal sungguh siberok nin sekor
> Yang dimaksudkan "air kencing unta" tu...ada tertera dalam
> hadis yang dianggap Sahih oleh ulamak BONGOK
> engko tu.
> Sekarang engko nak cakap aper pulak?
yelah memang ader tertera
tapi bukan untuk buat masakan
tulah .... kan aku dah kata
engkau telah menterjemah Quran dan hadis untuk ikut nafsu kamu yang gila tu
> Lekas pi minum air kencing unta seperti yang
> dianjurkan oleh ulamak BONGOK engko.
kakakah.....
bodohnya engkau nin
engkau faham bahasa arab ke
mungkin kitab kau baca kitab lama
sebab apa tak baca kitab modern yang lebih menepati bahasa hari ini
alahai sang bebal
> (hehe ..kan engko kata hadis Sahih mustahil
> pernah diubah....
amat benar .......
tapi kamu tau ke apa makna sahih tu hah sang bebal
dan ulamak BONGOK engko
> tak pernah silap...jadi..lekas lekas lah engko
jadi kamu tak mau mengaku silap ke?
kamu para ulamak ilmunya macam kamu
sekarang tunjukkan hadis sahih yang engkau baca kat sini
kami nak baca
alahai sang bebal
> pi pelihara akan unta kat reban engko tu...supaya
> cukup air kencing untuk buat sarapan...LOL.)
>
yang suruh buat sarapan tu ialah engkau
bukannya nabi
> > belajarlah agama Islam
> > mungkin kamu akan tertarik dengan agama Islam
>
> Hehe...melainkan terjumpa BERUK macam
> engko yang terus buat semua ore ketawakan
> "Islam" yang engko bawa.
> Betul punya BONGOK hero Islam kan
> scm nih...
> LOL.
>
alahai sang bebal
masih tak faham- faham jugak
berikan sepuluh atau dua puluh sebab
mengapa dia orang nak ketawakan kita orang
Makna Islam pun engkau tak tau
apalagi mau beriman
kalau tau taklah engkau tu jadi macam berok kena belacan bila berjumpa aje
ngan aku kat group nin
alahai sang bebal
>
> > > "manusia" <man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:40893c61$1...@news.tm.net.my...
> > > >
> > > > "Observer" <obser...@yahoo1.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:4018...@news.starhub.net.sg...
> > > > >
> > > > > "jafar" <m...@home.fr> wrote in message
> > > > > news:pan.2004.01.28...@home.fr...
> > > > > > Ok, here is what Mufti Ebrahim Desai had to say at
www.islam.tc
> on
> > a
> > > > > > similar question.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Does this Mufti speak to God?
> > > > > So why the hell is his answer relevant?
Orang buat jahat masuklah neraka
alahai bebal sungguh engkau nin
manusia
Observer
> > Hehe...betul ker?
> > Tapi Tuhan ader bercakap dengan engko
> > dan ulamak BONGOK engko ke tidak?
> >
>
> apalah yang bebal sangat si observer nin
> dah nyatalah yang si oserver sekarang nin tak pernah baca alQuran
> dan makna dari surah yang diberi juga semuanya tipu dan meragukan
> mengapalah aku jumpa orang bongok macam obsrver kat group nin
Hehe...merapu nampak...
Dah takde modal nak buat tipu yer.
Tuhan ader bercakap dengan engko atau
ulamak BONGOK engko ker tidak?
LOL.
> > Kalu takder...macam mana engko tahu pendapat
> > engko dan ulamak BONGOK engko tu disetujui
> > oleh Tuhan?
> > Nak MENIPU yer?
> > LOL.
> >
>
> mana pulak engkau tau takda
> apalah yang bebal sangat observer nin
> dahlah bebal bongok pulak tu
Kah..kah..kah..
Oh..jadi engko sekarang mengaku yang
Tuhan becakap dengon engko yer?
PENIPU....LOL.
>> > Yer ker?
> > Bila yang aku tokok tambah?
> > Macam perkataan "tudung" tu yer...yang
> > ulamak BONGOK engko kata boleh dilihat
> > dalam Quran....
> > Alahai...sang BONGOK....
> >
>
> Kan dah jelas tu sekarang yang engkau menterjemahkan ayat alQuran ikut
nafsu
> kalau tak ade hukum kat quran buat apa dia orang susah- susah nak pakai
> tengok kat perancis sekarang diaorang buat tunjuk perasaan kerana
> kerajaannya tak benarkan pelajar sekolah pakai tudung
> kalau tak ada kat dalam quran mengapa nak buat tunjuk perasaan?
> buat apa nak lawan
Eh..buat banyak nah cakap?
Cuba tunjukkan ayat Quran yang ader
perkataan "tudung" dalamnya.
Amacam...boleh atau tidak..
PENIPU....LOL.
> > Mana dia?
> > Mana posting aku?
> > PENIPU....LOL.
>
> posting kau tu dah lapuk
> macam kau jugak dah lapuk
> orang cakap kau tu tokok tambah makna dari alQuran
> kau cakap masih lagi macam katak bawah tempurung
> alahai bebalnya kau observer
Hehe...buat helah supaya tak payah
jawab apabila disuruh tunjukkan bukti.
PENIPU...LOL.
> > Hehe...ini dah nampak PENIPU besar.
> > Cuba nunjukkan posting aku yang ada hujjah
> > macam yang engko cakap nih...
> > PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
> > LOL.
> >
>
> sebab apa aku?
> engkao yang patut tunjukkan kat kami
> mana satu ayat yang engkao terjemahkan itu
> betul ke tidak
> apalah yang bebal sangat engkau nin?
Kah..kah..kah..
PENIPU...LOL.
> > > kau tidak lihat ke bagaimana sheikh Ahmad Yassin pengasas Hamas tu
mati
> > > begitu bermaruah kau tau
> >
> > Yer ker...
> > Jadi bila engko nak ganti tempat dia?
> > PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
> > LOL.
> >
>
> Insya Allah
Eh?
Apasal pulak kalu yang merbahaya engko
nak tunggu Tuhan pulak?
Sejak bila engko perlu Tuhan punya untuk
naik kapal terbang pi kat Palestine.
Ini tak lain helah apabila disuruh tunjukkan
engko punya tera.
Tunggu doa lah...tunggu ilham lah...
PENIPU...LOL.
> > > apalah bebal sangat kau nin
> > > kau kata hadis dah diubah
> >
> > Hehe...bila?
> > Cuba tunjukkan posting aku yang
> > berkata gitu...
> > Alahai sang BONGOK...
> > LOL.
> >
>
> posting kau tu dah lapuk
> dah tak laku lagi kau tau?
Hehe....satu lagi helah dari si
PENIPU...LOL.
> > Eh...nak buat apa?
> > Ore BONGOK macam engko yang perlu
> > buktikan yang ianya tak pernah berubah...seperti
> > ulamak BONGOK engko tu...
> >
>
> engkao yang buat perkara mengapa kami kena buktikan
> aku ayat yang engkao terjemahkan tu mana
Hehe...kerana ore BONGOK mace engko
ler yang mengaku yang Tuhan yang suruh buat
ini dan itu...dan nak memaksa manusia lain
turut engko punya tafsir.
Nah sekarang engko punya penipuan hendak
diuji...
Mana dia ayat tudung yang engko cakap ada
dalam Quran?
PENIPU...LOL.
> engkau dah bongok ke observer
> hai apalah yang bebal sangat awak nin observer
Hehe....makin banyak engko punya
helah...makin nampak PENIPUAN
engko....LOL.
> > > kalau Observer nak tau
> > > bahawa orang yang tak percayakan ulamak sebenarnya dia adalah orang
> tidak
> > > percaya apa yang dikata dan dibawa oleh nabi Mohammad sallallohu
'alaihi
> > > wasallam.
> >
> > Haha..bila yang nabi cakap gitu?
> > Ini karangan engko sendiri yer?
> > Cuba tunjukkan hadis atau ayat yang
> > cakap gitu.
> > PENIPU lagi BONGOK...
> > LOL.
> >
>
> kakakkakah.......
> gila ke hapa engkau nin
> engkau tu anti-hadis
> kalau diberi apa pun engkau macam tu jugak
Hehe...kenapa..takut nak berikan
hadis yang engko reka yer?
Takut tembelang engko pecah yer?
Sekarang buktikan bahaw engko tidak
berbohong dengan menggunakan nama
nabi....BERUK.
> tak ada perubahan apa pun
> baik tak payah
Kah..kah..kah..
Tak payah atau langsung terus takde
hadis yang engko reka?
LOL.
> baiklah aku bagi tau kat orang yang sudi terima
> daripada bagitau kat berok macam engkau
Oh...jadi engko masih cari mangso untuk
PENIPUAN engko yer?
BERUK murtad....LOL.
> kakakakakakh
> apalah yang bebal sangat observer nin?
Kah..kah..kah...
Beruk PENIPU....LOL.
Observer
> > > > Go back to cooking with camel piss.
> > >
> > > Mungkin kamu yang terlebih layak masak pakai air kencing unta
> > > kami orang Islam diharamkan memakan najis...
> yelah memang ader tertera
> tapi bukan untuk buat masakan
> tulah .... kan aku dah kata
> engkau telah menterjemah Quran dan hadis untuk ikut nafsu kamu yang gila
tu
Yer ker?
Cuba tunjukkan hadis yang ulamak
BONGOK engko cakap Sahih.
Kenapa macam malu ajer?
Kata engko engko haram makan najis...
Cuba tunjukkan apa yang disuruh dalam
hadis tersebut?
PENIPU....LOL.
> > Lekas pi minum air kencing unta seperti yang
> > dianjurkan oleh ulamak BONGOK engko.
>
> kakakah.....
> bodohnya engkau nin
> engkau faham bahasa arab ke
> mungkin kitab kau baca kitab lama
> sebab apa tak baca kitab modern yang lebih menepati bahasa hari ini
> alahai sang bebal
Oh?
Ada kitab lama dan kitab moden yer?
Jadi selama ini..ulamak BONGOK engko yang
pakai kitab lama tu....salah yer?
Jadi semua ulamak BONGOK engko yang dahulu
tu semua sesat yer...?
Cuba tunjukkan terjemahan kitab baru engko nih?
Nak tengok juga apa yang membuatkan ianya
moden sehingga beruk macam engko ni tergila gila..
Agaknya buat macam dialog kat Chow kit yer...?
Ader perkataan "Jom" dan "brader" yer..?
LOL.
> > (hehe ..kan engko kata hadis Sahih mustahil
> > pernah diubah....
>
>
> amat benar .......
> tapi kamu tau ke apa makna sahih tu hah sang bebal
Yer ker...?
Cuba buktikan bahawa hadis hadis ini
tak pernah diubah.
Cuba buktikan bahawa setiap hadis
yang engko anjurkan sekarang datang
dari nabi..
PENIPU...LOL.
> dan ulamak BONGOK engko
> > tak pernah silap...jadi..lekas lekas lah engko
>
> jadi kamu tak mau mengaku silap ke?
> kamu para ulamak ilmunya macam kamu
> sekarang tunjukkan hadis sahih yang engkau baca kat sini
> kami nak baca
> alahai sang bebal
Hehe...itu engko dan ulamak BONGOK engko yang
cakap sahih...ler beruk..
Bukan aku...
Engko yang nak suruh ore lain ikut hadis
engko....cuba buktikan bahawa hadis hadis
tu bukan karangan ore gila macam engko...
PENIPU...LOL.
> > pi pelihara akan unta kat reban engko tu...supaya
> > cukup air kencing untuk buat sarapan...LOL.)
> >
>
> yang suruh buat sarapan tu ialah engkau
> bukannya nabi
Hehe...bila yang aku cakap nabi yang suruh?
Ore mace engko yang percaya akan hadis
yang agak songsang maknanya kerana patuh
dengan ajaran ulamak BONGOK engko...
memang patut pi minum air kencing unta untuk
sarapan.
> > Hehe...melainkan terjumpa BERUK macam
> > engko yang terus buat semua ore ketawakan
> > "Islam" yang engko bawa.
> > Betul punya BONGOK hero Islam kan
> > scm nih...
> > LOL.
> kalau tau taklah engkau tu jadi macam berok kena belacan bila berjumpa aje
> ngan aku kat group nin
> alahai sang bebal
Apa pulak yang engko MERAPU nih..
BERUK...
PENIPU...LOL.
> > > > > "Observer" <obser...@yahoo1.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:4018...@news.starhub.net.sg...
Observer
"manusia" <man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:408bc...@news.tm.net.my...
"Rodrigo Diaz" <rod...@elcid.com> wrote in message news:3awic.20328$aQ6.1237243@attbi_s51...> Kuss emeq, ya kalb!كوس ....كوس ايه.... كلب من ؟ ....تدرى ....هو انت كلب .... لعنة الله عليك
Wa a'laika, ya PENIPU....LOL.Marah betul yer....bagus bagus...Engko ingat senang nak menipu manusiayer?
yhcheam
> > >The Quran forbids "khamar" or alcohol.
> >
> > Right. The question was about using wine in cooking, if the alcohol
> > all boiled off or boiled off to the extent that intoxication is
> > impossible. But there are clearly enough "No"s to this question for it
> > to be advisable for my friend to use no alcohol in any cooking for his
> > Muslim friends.
>
> The wording in the Quran is:
> 3. AL BAQARAH (2:219)
> They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is
> great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than
> their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say: that
> which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations,
that
> haply ye may reflect
>
> 6. AL MAA-IDAH (5:90)
> O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining
> arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order
that
> ye may succeed.
>
Where's the dalil from hadis explain that khamr or alcohol is forbidden by
religion?
I can't beleive you !!!!
I think you're not a muslim people because of your "kafir" for the "hadis".
>
> So based on the above...my take is that its up to
> individual how they want to interpret the verses and
> practice this abstention for themselves.
>
> I believe the verses are self explanatory as to how
> one should handle the situation.
> Just like smoking...we can only tell the smokers
> that its bad for their health....but if they insist on
> smoking cigarettes and run the risk of cancer and
> other ailments.....then its for them to suffer the
> consequences...if any.
>
>
>
>
>
yhcheam
>
> "michael" <d1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bvd3uo$r1aoo$2...@ID-170766.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >Does this Mufti speak to God?
> >
> > Holy Book for an answer to Pan's question.
>
>
> You should be alarmed.
> That there are possibly billions of zombies
> who claim to be Muslims but can't answer
> a very fundamental question about their religion
> and need some idiot to tell them what their
> God wants.
>
The zombies in the statement above is Observer himself. He can't to answer
this very fundamental question about Allah and Mohammad. I said to him : Can
you give me an explanation and interpretation to this "I bear witness that
there is no God except Allah and Mohammad is the messenger of Allah" ?
He said : when I claim to be a moslim?
From this question and answer i am sure now that that he is a kafir and not
muslim a people.
> > Or is it because no answer to this can be found in the
> > Holy Koran ?
>
>
> Yes there is.
>
>
yhcheam
> In article <b40b33dc.04013...@posting.google.com>,
oth...@tm.net.my says...
> >
> >d1...@hotmail.com (michael) wrote in message
news:<bvd3uo$r1aoo$2...@ID-170766.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >> In article <4018...@news.starhub.net.sg>, obser...@yahoo1.com
says...
> >
> >...
> >>
> >> Or is it because no answer to this can be found in the
> >> Holy Koran ?
> >
>
> If it's there, how come you answer without reference to the relevant
> verses in your Holy Book ?
>
basically, in islamic religion there had had four thing when you need to
refer to any problem, way of life and etc:
1- al Quran
2- al Hadis
3- Ijma' ulama
4- Qias
not just the Quran only.
> regards,
> michael ... afn2...@afn.org
>
yhcheam
you are evil
and you are satan!!!!
"Kabah Wabah" <pissingonmecca&thebla...@fgi.net> wrote in message
news:401A8D78...@fgi.net...
> It doesn't matter how you cook it, since islam is a false evil cult that
> was started by an evil, murdering, raping, thieving, child molesting
> sub human BASTARD called mohammad.
>
> Pan wrote:
> > Pardon me for cross-posting. I am a subscriber to s.c.m and don't
> > frequent a.r.i. I'd be curious to have knowledgeable responses from
> > anywhere and also to know how Malaysian Muslims answer this question.
> >
> > So suppose someone wants to cook a chicken in a pot with wine. If the
> > alcohol all evaporates and the chicken and all other ingredients used
> > were all halal and cooked in a halal pot with halal utensils and
> > served on halal plates, is the dish still haram? What if there may be
> > a trace of alcohol remaining but no possibility of intoxication from
> > such a small amount?
> >
> > I look forward to your replies with interest. Thank you very much.
yhcheam
"Pan" <panNO...@musician.org> wrote in message
news:1tfm105k9m85bm1o1...@4ax.com...
> On 30 Jan 2004 20:34:55 -0800, yous...@yahoo.com (larry kim) wrote:
>
> >What about the air that is contaminated by pigs and dogs through their
> >breathing in and out. Shouldn't the 'good' muslims stop inhaling this
> >haram air also!!!!
>
> Don't be silly. People can live very easily without drinking alcohol,
> but can't live without breathing.
>
> Religious laws are often logical, _providing_ that one accepts the
> opening premises. Even then, sometimes the logic behind them is
> incomprehensible and believers resort to the explanation that "We
> observe these laws because God told us to; God knows best and must
> have had a reason, even if we can't understand it." Clearly, anyone
> who doesn't accept the opening premise of a religion's laws will find
> them - or at any rate, many of them - absurd. So be it. Live and let
> live.
Observer
"yhcheam" <yhc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:408fc...@news.tm.net.my...
>
> > 6. AL MAA-IDAH (5:90)
> > O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and
divining
> > arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order
> that
> > ye may succeed.
> >
>
> Where's the dalil from hadis explain that khamr or alcohol is forbidden by
> religion?
Where's the dalil from the Quran, you moron?
Is the hadis more authoritative that the Quran?
MORON.
> I can't beleive you !!!!
Neither can we believe you...LOL.
> I think you're not a muslim people because of your "kafir" for the
"hadis".
I think you're kufur for your insult to the
Quran.
Observer
> > verses in your Holy Book ?
> >
>
> basically, in islamic religion there had had four thing when you need to
> refer to any problem, way of life and etc:
> 1- al Quran
> 2- al Hadis
> 3- Ijma' ulama
> 4- Qias
>
> not just the Quran only.
BULL.
Then why do all your past ulamas say
that if their works contradict the Quran,
then the Quran should prevail.
MORON...and LIAR...
LOL.
Observer
> > That there are possibly billions of zombies
> > who claim to be Muslims but can't answer
> > a very fundamental question about their religion
> > and need some idiot to tell them what their
> > God wants.
> >
>
> The zombies in the statement above is Observer himself. He can't to answer
> this very fundamental question about Allah and Mohammad. I said to him :
Can
> you give me an explanation and interpretation to this "I bear witness
that
> there is no God except Allah and Mohammad is the messenger of Allah" ?
> He said : when I claim to be a moslim?
Haha....Is this the best Islamic hero we
have now?
Resorting to LYING as usual.
When and where did I say that?
LIAR.....LOL.
> From this question and answer i am sure now that that he is a kafir and
not
> muslim a people.
From this we can conclude that you are
a blasphemous LIAR...
LOL.
Observer
And you are a MORON who claim
to be a Muslim?
LOL.
>
> "Pan" <panNO...@musician.org> wrote in message
> news:1tfm105k9m85bm1o1...@4ax.com...