CHARLIE HEBDO ATTACK IN PARIS, FRANCE

[CASALAO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65PcC35cARs#t=27
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/07/europe/france-satire-magazine-gunfire/

this is very fucked up. how can people kill others in the name of a religion? i kept hearing and reading that ISLAM is a peaceful religion. so what the fuck is going on here?

[Her Lao]

++++++++++++++++++++

This is the problem when people do things ACCORDING to, they say, the DIRECTIVES of some MAN FROM BEYOND THE CLOUD... directives that are HOLY and DIVINE.

As we know, the people of the Middle East, ONCE A LONG TIME AGO, gave all of us humanity, for the very first time in human history, reading and writing and mathematics and the plow and giant and sophisticated civilization.

They WERE NOT MUSLIMS. They were the Mesopotamians, the Sumerians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Egyptians, the Phoenicians, the Carthaginians, et al.

Nowadays, we hear this utter nonsense of the "Islamic civilization."

There is was really no such a thing. Muslims, like Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists, like to believe their tribal shit to such a degree, they make things up and, after generations of reading and memorizing and regurgitating, they believe in such total inventions without doubt.

Yes, there WERE a few very brilliant architects and mathematicians and astronomers and poets BORN DURING THE CENTURIES that Islam was on the march across the Middle East, towards both Southeast Asia and southern Europe.

But the problem with these religious nuts, and ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE NUTS, it's just that some are nuttier than others...

The problem with these primitive tribes is... they thought/think WITHOUT ISLAM those few extremely bright architects, mathematicians, astronomers, and poets ---- BORN IN THE MIDDLE EAST DURING THE ERAS ISLAM WAS ON THE MOVE, as a dominating superstition so big and power, no one could question it and went on to live ---- could not have been born or nurtured.

Of course, they CONVENIENTLY forget that FACT that their ANCESTORS WHO WERE NOT MUSLIMS gave birth to CIVILIZATION ITSELF, per the groups I mentioned above here.

That is the problem of RELIGIONS: they make individuals and groups see, think, live, and understand the world and reality in a way that DOES NOT COMPORT WITH REALITY AS OTHERS (who are NOT into the same tribal shit) see, think, live, and understand reality to be.

And so you have endless individuals and groups of these religious nuts, from the "normal" to the very mentally crazy, running around spewing utter nonsense about magical and holy and divine bullshit and ASSERTING, DECLARING, THREATENING THAT WHOEVER THAT INSULT THEM, ridicule them, satirize them or their holy and divine prophet, holy men, velveteen rabbit creator... that SUCH PEOPLE SHOULD BE AND MUST BE KILLED...

That is the GENERAL problem with religious people.

They operate using imaginary subscriptions, proscriptions, directives, and other holy and divine information, from some guy or creator who knows every beating pulse of every virtual particles in the known cosmos AND BEYOND...

I have no problem when very ignorant and uneducated people believe in shit like this.

The problem is, when people with PhDs, MDs, JD, etc. subscribe to these primitive BS... they give credence, FALSE CREDENCE, to these Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived mindless nonsense...

[CASALAO]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/charlie-hebdo-rally-photos_n_6430144.html?1420651965

right away, huge crowds have gathered in paris and elsewhere to show support for free speech.

as a free speech lover myself, i am with the crowd. we can't let a few rightwing nuts dictate our speech.

now here's what i see is gonna happen on the next round of presidential election in france: the rise of the front national(FN), a rightwing french political party. the french people will have many reasons to vote for FN and that will make Marine Le Pen a very happy woman. she might even get the top job for the current french president is not that great.

[Her Lao]

++++++++++++++++

That is one of the tragedies that WILL come out, as a direct result of this.

You have right wing Cons in the Muslim world (who want to take the whole fuckin' damn world and RETURN IT TO THE 7TH CENTURY, when their WINGED HORSE RIDING illiterate MOHAMMED was still procuring dozens of wives across the Middle East).... stirring up right wing Con people, politicians, and values in France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Norway, England, Italy, Hungary, Poland, Russia, etc. amassing in the tens of thousands, calling for A RETURN TO THE GLORIOUS DAYS in the early 1900s, when racial minorities in all over Europe were treated like cattle and other animals.

Guess who's gonna be at the short end of the stick, during regional and societal struggle in Europe?

Minorities in general and Muslims in specific!

[CASALAO]

to be fair to the muslim communities in france, many such as tariq ramadan have come out condemning this atrocity. i mean... who in the right mind can condone such a barbaric act?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[Her Lao]

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 3:28:52 PM UTC-6, CASALAO wrote:
> to be fair to the muslim communities in france, many such as tariq ramadan have come out condemning this atrocity. i mean... who in the right mind can condone such a barbaric act?
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Of course, I expect every decent human being to come out in support of the French people and the families of these dead writers and journalists and all other free speech proponents. And that includes most Muslims.

What I said was about educated people BELIEVING IN FAIRY TALES.... Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived fairy tales about magical ideas, holy creators and prophets, divine beings, angels and arch angels and virgin mothers, etc.

There is no reason why grown up adults who are avail with modernity's best education should be believing in and practicing these Stone, Iron, and Bronze age BS that purport to be DICTATED word for word from some Man from Beyond the Oort Cloud... beliefs and practices that are CONTRARY to common sense, history, logic, reason, science, mathematics, and every other possible and grown up understanding of reality...

[little FAT BigFOOT,BigHEAD2]

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:44:41 PM UTC-6, CASALAO wrote:

HEIR GOD is the WEAKEST of the BUNCH OF GOD so to get STRONGER it needs more WORSHIPPERS and to achieve more POWER the believer has to SPREAD and CONVERT MORE PEOPLE to join and worship their GOD. the GOOD GOD DOESN'T CARE FOR MORE WORSHIPPER SO NO NEED to CONVERT MORE PEOPLE to believe him WHICHEVER RELIGION that SPREAD and CONVERTING OTHER PEOPLE and claim their GOD is the BEST. GO AWAY PREACH the GOD to do the CONVERTING HIMSELF IF HE IS THAT MUCH POWERFUL AS THEY CLAIM. I SAY THOSE ARE THE WEAKEST WHIP of the BUNCH. the TRUE POWER IS ONLY EXIST in the FATHER of those so call GOD. all they can do is BEGG their FATHER to allow them to use a little POWER TEMPORARY, just as the RICH SPOIL KIDS ASK THEIR FATHER to drive the MOST FAMOUS CAR for a day to date his GIRL FRIEND just to show off for a day.some of them EVEN try to STEAL the key while the father was BZ. there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD the REST are buch of kids in HEAVEN trying to impersonate the true GOD ONLY. soon the GOD will Remove all PASSPORT to come down to EARTH so those kiddies will be LIMIT TO HEAVEN ONLY no more jiddy GOD to make a mess on EARTH. those seeking to gain more worshiper are ONLY KIDDY GOD. BEWARE OF JEHOVAH WITNESS GROUP once they are allow to step into the HOUSE THEY REFUSE to go away. did to me once. MY LAST SOLUTION I IMITATE A 911 CALL to POLICE to REMOVE JEHOVAH from my house. once the group saw my imitation they drove off quickly. NEXT TIME THEY KNOCK on your door NEVER OPEN for them at least I HAD NOT OPEN MY DOOR to JEHOVAH group since 1993. they usually BEG to allow 30-45 minutes for them to teach their believe. once that time slot the asked was done. they will ask fore 30-40 minutes more REPEAT just like that UNTIL I CAN NOT GIVE MORE TIME BECAUSE I GOT HOMEWORK to be hand to my classes at the UNIVERSITY. thats when i was fed up with REPEATED ASKING fore more time where the U will NOT ALLOW me to turn my homework LATE. NOW they can't step unto my house any more.

[CASALAO]

JE SUIS CHARLIE has become the rallying cry for freedom of expression around the globe now.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2015/01/07/world-cartoonists-je-suis-charlie-photos.html

[nottoo...@yahoo.com]

On Thursday, January 8, 2015 10:29:40 AM UTC+7, CASALAO wrote:
> JE SUIS CHARLIE has become the rallying cry for freedom of expression around the globe now.
>
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2015/01/07/world-cartoonists-je-suis-charlie-photos.html

All the extremist mullahs/preachers who preach hate and violence must be put in jail for good in solitary and do not let them see the face of the earth again!

[pizone]

i condemn this kind of stupid killing, but what exactly free speech or freedom of expression is?

does "free speech" means "free to insult people"?

pizone

[CASALAO]

the ultimate ironic sacrifice... here was this police officer confronting the two terrorists and paid with his life. only thing is that he's an arab like them.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/08/ahmed-merabet-mourned-charlie-hebdo-paris-attack

charlie hebdo is notorious in its satire poking fun at anything that it has its sight on. the chief editor, stephane charbonnier, has said that he preferred to die than to live like a rat without freedom of expression(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-kmc4xNLpU). so he really lived by his words.

throughout the modern time, many political activists of all stripes have sought refuge in france because of its defense of free speech.

now the question that's been asked is: is it worth the ultimate price to draw cartoons on other religions such as islam, a religion that promises 72 virgins if one is a martyred jihad? personally i am too chicken for that stuff but go tell that to them parisians.

[Her Lao]

Yes, that's EXACTLY part of what we mean "freedom of speech."

"Insulting" somebody IS AN INTEGRAL part of that phrase.

If you must except Satan, Santa Claus, Kim Jong-Un, the Pope, Saddam, Obama, the Holy and Divine King of Thailand, the Benevolent King of Saudi Arabia, the Holy Baby Mohammed, Jesus, Her Lao, Pizone, Casalao, Bush, Cheney, Charlie Brown, The COMMUNIST PARTY, the CORRECT LEACERSHIP, THE CORRECT IDEA, etc, et., et al ---- and if you don't make an exception for those "very important, powerful, polite, correct, wise, and holy humans and creators and angels, then you shouldn't complain if ONE OF THEIR FOLLOWERS is angry enough to kill you for having insulted them ----- then pretty soon the ONLY THING LEFT to say written, to be said, to be allowed to be criticized, insulted, or written about is a situation captured succinctly and sublimely by cartoonist Michael Shaw:

A blank rectangular box with the heading:

"PLEASE ENJOY THIS CULTURALLY, ETHNICALLY, RELIGIOUSLY, AND POLITICALLY CORRECT CARTOON RESPONSBILY. THANK YOU."

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[pizone]

her lao

how do you know what you insult people is so right?

should they have the same right to insult you back?

if they have no way to insult you back with words/cartoon, the same magnitude you do to them, what else can they do to play this so-called "freedom of speech" game?

if you think racism&discrimination against minorities still exist in the US, then in France, there're 10 times more.

don't get me wrong, i don't support any kind of violence and extremism!

i'm just a free man loving peace and freedom!

pizone

[Her Lao]

That's the whole idea behind FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I can say, "Fuck you, you moron... Not only are you a moron, you mommy and pappy and imaginary creator of the universe and his holy velveteen rabbit prophet... you are all morons, savages, and ignorant Stone, Iron, and Bronze age primitives" and you can return the insult: "No, fuck you, you moron."

What is so wrong or illegal or morally unsupportable about that?

The DISPUTE is not about people having the RIGHT to say NASTY or even untrue things about each other. THAT IS CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

That dispute YOU silly people who pretend to be so nice, courteous, morally superior people have is WHETHER or not we should be so nasty towards each other.

Two very different stories.

In a modern society, you CAN NOT --- NO ONE HAS TO ---- tolerate A GROUP OF PEOPLE who make A SPECIAL or HOLY list of ideas, men, women, things, creators, rulers, thinkers, et al. OF WHOM NO ONE CAN OR SHOULD INSULT, with the penalty being DEATH, if such a decree is violated.

Only primitive morons and savages make such a list.

Hence, they don't belong with others in the 21st century.

And the only time they are able to make such prohibition is when they collect themselves to live in small, isolated community or society where the rest of humanity hardly intrude.... THAT should be the only places, situation, or existence where these morons and savages PRETEND to be so nice, courteous, and righteous that they see no need to insult one another...

[pizone]

her lao,

if you don't have power/money to build big co. to say/draw "fuck you" back, then would you just give up your "freedom of speech" and listen to your "fuck you" day in day out?

As a science's beleiver, i have to ask everything.

again, don't get me wrong, i don't support any kind of violence and extremism!

i'm just a free man loving peace and freedom!

pizone

[Her Lao]

Lest that is thought to be the only thing some of us like to engage in, in every one of our waking hours, I should go ahead and say the opposite:

I could also easily compliment people: "Sir, you are one of the most decent human beings I've ever come across. If the world had more people like you, we'd all be better off."

THAT is also PART of what we called FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Freedom of speech is NOT ONLY ABOUT NICE, POSITIVE, UPLIFTING, RIGHTEOUS, TRUE, etc. things, ideas, people....

It is about the ABILITY ---- CODIFIED in modern jurisprudence, with legal protection ---- to say ANY THING, be it positive or negative.

The LAW would only, SHOULD ONLY, stipulate that if I go out of my way, for whatever reason (justified or not, in MY OWN VIEW) to MALICIOUSLY malign you, to create FALSE THINGS about you that is PROVABLE in a court of law, THEN you have the right to take me to court, to sue me and put me in prison for the DAMAGES you suffer.

Let's say you're a successful real estate developing, flipping lands and properties right and left, making millions a year... and I get jealous of you, or feel you've tricked me into selling my land to you, for a penny, when you turn around and sell it for tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousand... and let's say I came up with a scheme to infect you computer with CHILD PORNOGRAPHY and clever call the police on you, quietly....

SITUATIONS like that are the only things that should be LEGALLY not supportable, and if done, it needs to be caught and exposed and I, the one who hurt you, your business, or family or reputation... I should be punished over it.

Nothing else, however, should be collected onto a list of DON'T AND CAN'T DO.

If I considered myself a highly intelligent person and boast about my high intelligence, ANYONE ELSE could listen to me and check on what I am saying and put my on the spot, if they see flaws or nonsense in my claims about myself.

If I want to be a leader, a politician, I CAN NOT then make rules that say I can not be criticized, since I am such a great person and I am gonna be an awesome leader, and to criticize me is to violate my rights and truth and all those goody stuff...

If I am gonna invent some childish fairy tales storie about some holy or divine man, or woman, or creator giving me a whole bunch of deep, holy, or divine knowledge, can't just o stipulate:

"And if you stupid people don't believe me or my holy prophet and our CREATOR, who told us about these things, and you say untrue or nasty things about me, my holy prophet or our creator, or HIS HOLY BOOK, you deserve to die, and I am warning you ahead of time."

NO HUMANS should have to live among people or individuals who behave in such manners.

"The reason I want to kill, the reason I will kill you, is because you've hurt my feelings too much, you've insulted me, my dad, my mom, my holy prophet, my holy book, which is THE CREATOR HOLY BOOK given to us humans.... you must understand and accept that... so I need to warn you and all others, that if they don't want to die, they must not insult me, my holy ideas and holy prophet and holy book... Very easy, okay?


THAT IS NOT PERMISSIBLE. Why? Because it just can not work.

How? Because if you have your special list, I too will have one, and WE ARE BACK TO SQUARE ONE.... because our outwardly concentric circles of holy and sacred and inviolable BS will eventually cross path, in mutually exclusive manners, and I will piss you with my special claims and you will piss me with your special claims...

There are close to 8B of us humans today, living very close, and we all have nasty habits, thoughts, activities.... IN ADDITION TO ALL THOSE THINGS, we can NOT allow someone or some group to have SPECIAL IDEAS, thoughts, beliefs, characters that CAN NOT BE INSULTED with the death penalty being given immediately by "the insulted themselves, needing no police or the law or any one else."

[Her Lao]

Pizone, you don't seem to understand basic thoughts, do you?

It is NOT my mission in life to call everyone names, all the time. (And even if I did, it should make NO DIFFERENCE! That would simply mean there is SOMETHING WRONG in my head; it has NOTHING to do with all those I randomly call names.)

The point is, NO ONE --- not as individuals and not as groups ---- should be accorded a SPECIAL SET OF RIGHTS, rights that RESTRICT others from speaking out their minds.

You people don't seem to understand that IF I choose to be nice, courteous, intelligent, humane, moral, ethical, etc. IT IS BECAUES I CHOOSE TO...

And if I choose to be nasty, cruel, horrible, vulgar... IT IS BECAUSE I CHOOSE TO.

NO LAW should compel me to be THE ONE OR THE OTHER!

No group should be given rights to RESTRICT me from saying what THEY THINK I should or should NOT be allow to say... about X, Y, or Z.

That is a very simple thing to understand.

[pizone]

her lao,

if you change "business" to "colonizing" in your example, that would be more realistic and you might see the bigger picture of the real world we're living in.

instead of you develop/flipping land, makinf it more valuable to sell for profit..., you develop war ships, canons, and guns, then sail far away to take over other people's land or countries.... that's the root cause of the problem the new world is facing.

you have to fix the root of the problem and not giving "fuck you" or "love you" to the people who don't think/beleive like you.

pizone

[pizone]

On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 11:17:06 AM UTC-8, Her Lao wrote:
> Pizone, you don't seem to understand basic thoughts, do you?
>
> It is NOT my mission in life to call everyone names, all the time. (And even if I did, it should make NO DIFFERENCE! That would simply mean there is SOMETHING WRONG in my head; it has NOTHING to do with all those I randomly call names.)

do you really beleive those cartoons are "Random"????

> The point is, NO ONE --- not as individuals and not as groups ---- should be accorded a SPECIAL SET OF RIGHTS, rights that RESTRICT others from speaking out their minds.

i don't think they RESTRICT your right, they just SHUT-UP your mouth forever. these people don't care much about their own life any way, like you already know why, so if you're 'smart' you should use the 'freedom of speech' in a smarter way.

> You people don't seem to understand that IF I choose to be nice, courteous, intelligent, humane, moral, ethical, etc. IT IS BECAUES I CHOOSE TO...

this is the 21st century. what you beleive in now might become true in the next century or next millenium. you have to live in this world, not in the NEXT world!

pizone

[CASALAO]

the terrorists in paris, france have been killed along with hostages. at least that's the end for now.

now france is home to the largest muslim community in europe with more than five million emigrated from places like morocco, algeria, tunisia and others mostly former french colonies. there's a real disconnect and a sense of not belonging between a good portion of the french muslim with the rest of france.

[Her Lao]

On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 2:25:57 PM UTC-6, pizone wrote:
> On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 11:17:06 AM UTC-8, Her Lao wrote:
> > Pizone, you don't seem to understand basic thoughts, do you?
> >
> > It is NOT my mission in life to call everyone names, all the time. (And even if I did, it should make NO DIFFERENCE! That would simply mean there is SOMETHING WRONG in my head; it has NOTHING to do with all those I randomly call names.)
>
> do you really beleive those cartoons are "Random"????

Not random in the way you mean; random in that ANY THING is not beyond reproach, beyond criticism, beyond debates.

>
> > The point is, NO ONE --- not as individuals and not as groups ---- should be accorded a SPECIAL SET OF RIGHTS, rights that RESTRICT others from speaking out their minds.
>
> i don't think they RESTRICT your right, they just SHUT-UP your mouth forever. these people don't care much about their own life any way, like you already know why, so if you're 'smart' you should use the 'freedom of speech' in a smarter way.

You sound as if you think the "smarter" people all live in Laos, Thailand, North Korea, Cuba, China, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, etc.

Anyway, NO SOCIETY CAN OR SHOULD ALLOW savages who simply walk into an office full of journalists, cartoonists, writers, editors, etc. and mow them down with AK47s, for the "insult" of their imaginary holy man on a WINGED HORSE and Allah, the Creator of the universe.

No civilized humans could or should allow such primitives running around.

Using "freedom of speech" in a "smart way" is the way COMMUNISTS AND AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES use... yet YOU bitch about that, as much as I do.

"Smart" to you MAY NOT BE SMART TO ME or to someone else.

Vulgarity and stupidity ARE NOT CRIMES; certainly not crimes punishable by death.

If you want to live in a society where the majority AND THE GREAT LEADERS in politics and in religions DEFINED EXACTLY HOW SMART PEOPLE SHOULD THINK, or say things... which ideas and things and people are NOT allowed to be criticized or ridiculed or insulted.... there are PLENTY of such societies... I don't see you or any right wing and religious people clamoring to MOVE to such societies...

Laos, under the "correct leadership" of the Communist Party, Thailand, Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Pakistan, etc.,,, societies that either have very long sentences for people who insult religions, the great leaders, or holy books.... or put to death for insulting the said things... we have such "enlightened" societies.... again, I wonder why you people who know how to use "smart in the right way" are not clamoring to go living among those people, in those societies?

Indeed, if STUPIDITY and VULGARITY were crimes punishable by death, then, THINK: shouldn't these primitive ignoramus --- who are worshiping childish Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived characters and books and other such nonsense ---- have been put to death already?

Of course not!

That's because in MORE ENLIGHTENED and LIBERAL and PROGRESSIVE SOCIETIES, in PLURALISTIC and MORE TOLERANT societies ----- the societies WE LIVE IN and in which HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS from around the world WANT TO COME TO LIVE IN ---- we don't threaten stupid or vulgar people with death!

[KC]

Charlie - updates


http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jan/09/charlie-hebdo-manhunt-kouachi-terrorist-links-live-updates

[CASALAO]

out of this carnage, i see two distinct narratives:

1. disenfranchised young french muslims who got nothing to fuck around(foutre) so they become radicalized and do stupid stuff like this

2. french muslims in general who are law-abiding citizens who also put their life on the line like this police officer who was killed early on when he confronted the two terrorist brothers and also the french muslim guy who hid other shoppers at the grocery store held hostage by the other black muslim terrorist.

[CASALAO]

a show of democracy in paris today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co2DfhilSs8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HphcFqYrZM

[Her Lao]

+++++++++++++

And people say, how come our Messiah, the Great Kenyan-born Muslim Leader Brother Barack Obama didn't go?

Well, if he had gone, do you think there would be space for these ordinary millions, since the Greatest Leader of Pax Americana requires a security "detail" of many thousands of plain clothes and sharp shooters and uniformed police officers, with every street ADJACENT to the one he's to walk on must be close, with no airplanes, large and small, flying within 10 minutes in radius....

If our Messiah, who has ruined our economy and who has crashed the oil industry, Dick Cheney and Co's bread and butter... if he had gone, ordinary French would be very pissed indeed, since NO ONE could be close to him without having been background-checked 5 months in advance!

But if John McCain, or Michelle Bachmann, or Sarah Palin, or Mitt Romney had won, I am sure they would have gone, and they would NOT have required all the security "detail" the Messiah requires!

I almost forgot: If the ECONOMICALLY knowledgeable Mitt Romney HAD BEEN elected, right now the DOW would have been over 25,000!, as opposed to just the measly 18,000 it is today.

But don't worry, Mitt Romney is not gonna be allowed to quit, by the "correct" and "smart" and "polite" people from the Right. They will make him president one of these latter days!

Three is, or should be, the lucky number for el Presidente Mitt Romney!

[CASALAO]

a look into how these fucking guys did what they did in paris a few days ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/12/world/europe/jihadism-born-in-a-paris-park-and-fueled-in-the-prison-yard.html?_r=0

[Her Lao]

https://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday

One of the reasons I like, sometimes, watching RT, Mr. Vladimir Putin's personal channel.

Sometimes they just turn their cameras on and it goes for hours without these idiotic talking heads, one after another, making idiotic remarks touted as "expertise" in the subjects...

For Comrade KC:

What do you see, when you go to the time frame of roughly 1:01:30 minute mark....

You see a whole bunch of national FLAGS... Israeli, French, Spaniards, etc. What other large prominent flag you see?

That's right: The flag of the Country of California, the 213th country at the UN!

We've broken away, we've seceded from Iowa and the rest of other non-producing states of the Union!

Californians produce roughly 1/4 of the foodstuffs we eat in America and we are tired of our disproportionate contribution to the rest of the non-producing states!

[Her Lao]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gov-jerry-brown-pulling-california-back-from-the-brink/?google_editors_picks=true

Gerry Brown, President of California, the 8th largest economy in the world, having crawled out of a hole of $27B in debt ---- after some years under the GOP of "small government" of Arnold the Terminator ---- into a state surplus in about 4 years.

[pizone]

her lao

> > do you really beleive those cartoons are "Random"????
>
> Not random in the way you mean; random in that ANY THING is not beyond reproach, beyond criticism, beyond debates.

yeah right, even the word "random" you're the one who use it, you have it in 2 definitions, your-random and my-random! then how many definitions you have for the term "freedom of speech"?

> You sound as if you think the "smarter" people all live in Laos, Thailand, North Korea, Cuba, China, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, etc.

No, i didn't say the people living in Laos, Thailand, China, Vietnam, etc, nor the ethnic one who live in these countries are "smarter". I talked to you and no one else in regard to what you keep said, "fuck you, fuck you, fuck you....", to anyone who don't beleive like you. That's why I quoted the word "smart" in my replying to you. Take a look if you don't notice it. but never mind. you (we) have the right to say anything...

i condemn any kind of violence. if i were in paris like i used to be i would join those million peace&freedom&justice-loving people. i'm glad 3 of those terrorists are dead, so they couldn't kill more innocent people.

freedom of speech? yes, charlie is the freedom of speech fighter. they know what they're doing/fighting. i salute Charb, the fight, who said "je prefere mourir debout que vivre a genoux"

i condemn the terrorists who kill police officers who do their job to serve and protect the people, and

i condemn the terrorists who kill innocent people just because they pay tax to their governemnt.

it's good to see million of people walked on the streets of Paris holding signs, "i'm charlie, i'm musulman", "je suis juif, je suis charlie", "Not in My Name".....

people demonstrate in hope to fix the root cause of the problem, and not to say "fuck you" to anyone.

pizone

[Her Lao]

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 11:45:27 AM UTC-6, pizone wrote:
> her lao
>
> > > do you really beleive those cartoons are "Random"????
> >
> > Not random in the way you mean; random in that ANY THING is not beyond reproach, beyond criticism, beyond debates.
>
> yeah right, even the word "random" you're the one who use it, you have it in 2 definitions, your-random and my-random! then how many definitions you have for the term "freedom of speech"?

Freedom of speech means freedom of speech: you say whatever you want; you target people; you randomly pick targets; you selective research it for "special" occasions; you selectively reserve it for only "the smart people who know how to use freedom of speech."

How hard is it to understand, really? Not complex at all.

And I have no idea why you are now stuck to my usage of that word "random" in my posting above here, when I said this:


"""".... It is NOT my mission in life to call everyone names, all the time. (And even if I did, it should make NO DIFFERENCE! That would simply mean there is SOMETHING WRONG in my head; it has NOTHING to do with all those I randomly call names.) ....""""

It has NO BEARING on what happened in Paris, when a whole bunch of Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-figure/holy-book worshippers walked into work places and started mowing down people who RIDICULED and SATIRIZED their Holy Man on a Winged Horse and the Man from Beyond the Oort Cloud...

AGAIN AND AGAIN: If you or anyone else, like these savages, like to hear and see and live in "smart societies where the people are smart and use their smart more appropriately, intelligently" live, there's SAUDI ARABIA, LAOS, NORTH KOREA, CHINA, IRAN, PAKISTAN, EGYPT, IRAQ, etc. THESE ARE societies that have severe PUNISHMENT for stupid people like me and those French and other Europeans who are TOO STUPID to conform to YOUR DEFINITION OF SMART.

That is WHY these stupid Europeans and people like I am ARE NOT LIVING IN THOSE smart and proper and appropriate and correct leadership societies. That's why we live in WESTERN SOCIETIES, where all kinds of people live, the smart and the not-so-smart.

It is NOT that difficult to understand, is it?

But if you're gonna MOVE from Laos, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, etc., TO LIVE AMONG DUMB PEOPLE HERE IN THE WEST who don't know when or how to control their stupid brains or mouths, THEN YOU CAN'T BITCH about them making fun of you, ridiculing you, satirizing you, and so on and so forth.

THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THAT to and with each other FOR CENTURIES and they're not gonna stop just because YOU NOW HAVE MOVED HERE to the West, to be living among them!

Not very difficult to understand, is it?

>
> > You sound as if you think the "smarter" people all live in Laos, Thailand, North Korea, Cuba, China, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, etc.
>
> No, i didn't say the people living in Laos, Thailand, China, Vietnam, etc, nor the ethnic one who live in these countries are "smarter". I talked to you and no one else in regard to what you keep said, "fuck you, fuck you, fuck you....", to anyone who don't beleive like you. That's why I quoted the word "smart" in my replying to you. Take a look if you don't notice it. but never mind. you (we) have the right to say anything...
>
> i condemn any kind of violence. if i were in paris like i used to be i would join those million peace&freedom&justice-loving people. i'm glad 3 of those terrorists are dead, so they couldn't kill more innocent people.

So, there. Those savages who worshipped Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived terrorists are dead. And WESTERN PEOPLE will continue to RANDOMLY and SELECTIVELY say, "Fuck you, Cameron. Fuck you, Pope Francis. Fuck you, Obama. Fuck you Merkel. Fuck you, Putin. Fuck you, Her Lao. Fuck you, Pizone. Fuck you, Buddha. Fuck you, Mohammed. Fuck you, God. Fuck you, Allah. Fuck you, Santa Claus. Fuck you, Satan. Fuck you, Mr. Devil. Fuck you, Mr. Darwin, you don't know SHIT; it's Jesus and his Dad, God, who did IT, whatever the fuck it is... you name it..."

AGAIN, here in the WEST, it should be UP TO THE MARKETS, the AUDIENCES, the CONSUMERS who exercise THE RIGHT whether or not to buy what people write, or HOW they write what they write.

HERE IN THE WEST, you don't grab a knife or a gun and go into someone home or office and kill them JUST BECAUSE they've written something about you or your beliefs, WHICH YOU SAY IS HOLY AND CAN'T BE RIDICULED OR INSULTED.

Again, who the FUCK ARE YOU to come to live in a DIVERSE, INDUSTRIALIZED, LIBERALIZED, PROGRESSIVE, PLURALISTIC society where different people live WHERE THERE IS NO LAW prohibiting people from INSULTING politicians, religious leaders, teachers, lawyers, holy and divine ideas and figures and books, AND TELL THEM NOW THAT YOU'VE ARRIVED TO LIVE AMONG THEM, THEY CAN NO LONGER SAY WHATEVER THEY... OR YOU GONNA GO AND MOW THEM DOWN with AK47s?

"YOU" here, is NOT just "Pizone" or "Her Lao" or others we may know. "YOU" here is a GENERAL and NEUTRAL term, just so YOU, PIZONE KNOW!

>
> freedom of speech? yes, charlie is the freedom of speech fighter. they know what they're doing/fighting. i salute Charb, the fight, who said "je prefere mourir debout que vivre a genoux"

It doesn't matter. FREEDO OF SPEECH means a writer, or thinker, or ANY ONE ELSE can say whatever THE FUCK THEY WANT, on religions, politics, politicians, religious leaders, teachers, doctors, laywers, presidents, prime ministers, general in the army, holy men and women, gods, goddesses, santa claus.

THAT'S what "freedom of speech" means.

Again and again: ------ there are MANY SOCIETIES IN THE WORLD where SPECIFIC religions, holy books, political leaders, kings and queens, religious leaders, SOME CORRECT IDEAS/IDEOLOGIES, some figures, some SACRED IDEAS or BOOKS, etc. ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE INSULTED OR RIDICULED, with very severe punishments... ranging from thousands of slashes to death via decapitation.

America, Canada, Australia, and WESTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, as YOU KNOW, are NOT among those countries.

>
> i condemn the terrorists who kill police officers who do their job to serve and protect the people, and
>
> i condemn the terrorists who kill innocent people just because they pay tax to their governemnt.
>
> it's good to see million of people walked on the streets of Paris holding signs, "i'm charlie, i'm musulman", "je suis juif, je suis charlie", "Not in My Name".....
>
> people demonstrate in hope to fix the root cause of the problem, and not to say "fuck you" to anyone.

Sorry, saying "FUCK YOU," just like saying, "YOU ARE A GREAT, HUMBLE, COURTEOUS, AND WISE PERSON"... THEY ARE ALL PART OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Neither you, nor I, nor those savages get to dictate what OTHERS can or can not say, when people think, when they write, when they make observations about themselves, others, and the world around them.

Again:

If you prefer to live in SOCIETIES that are run on CORRECT and COURTEOUS and RIGHT ideas, leaders, holy books, holy/divine belief systems, etc. THE WEST IS NOT YOUR CUP OF TEA.

But if you decide to come to live here in the West, you don't get to demand that OTHERS CONFORM to your sensitivity, your courteous or holy beliefs, your particular wants and needs.... when it comes to HOW they talk or WHAT they talk about... just because you are now living here in the West among THOSE people who WILL say and do and write as they want, leaving only up to THE MARKETS, CONSUMERS, AUDIENCES to decide what they will or will not support, with their money, time, and attention.
>
> pizone

[pizone]

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 1:20:50 PM UTC-8, Her Lao wrote:
> On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 11:45:27 AM UTC-6, pizone wrote:
> > her lao
> >
> > > > do you really beleive those cartoons are "Random"????
> > >
> > > Not random in the way you mean; random in that ANY THING is not beyond reproach, beyond criticism, beyond debates.
> >
> > yeah right, even the word "random" you're the one who use it, you have it in 2 definitions, your-random and my-random! then how many definitions you have for the term "freedom of speech"?

> And I have no idea why you are now stuck to my usage of that word "random" in my posting above here, ...>

her lao, it's you who stuck to the word you used, "random", not me. Charb had the gut to stand up for his cause and announced clearly long before the shotting, "Je prefere mourir debout que vivre a genoux",

that means he's not randomly doing things he's fighting for. he didn't play with the word "random" like you, that's why i salute him even i don't agree with what's doing.


pizone

[CASALAO]

On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 10:45:46 PM UTC-8, Her Lao wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday

> For Comrade KC:
>
> What do you see, when you go to the time frame of roughly 1:01:30 minute mark....
>
> You see a whole bunch of national FLAGS... Israeli, French, Spaniards, etc. What other large prominent flag you see?
>
> That's right: The flag of the Country of California, the 213th country at the UN!
>
> We've broken away, we've seceded from Iowa and the rest of other non-producing states of the Union!

YEAH... SOMEBODY WAVED THE CALIFORNIA FLAG THERE AT THE RALLY, PLACE DE LA REPUBLIQUE, IN PARIS. NOT SURE WHY OBAMA DIDN'T GO.

[Her Lao]

So, I see LINGUISTICS is the issue here, with you, not issues dealing with the NOTION of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.


And, to remind everyone, FREEDOM OF SPEECH means you can say WHATEVER YOU WANT, including words and phrases like: "You are a fuckin' moron; and your Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived nonsense are nothing but childish nonsense."

And SUCH WORDS AND PHRASES can be used, IF ANYONE WANTS TO USE IT, anywhere in a multiple party political system, in a society of plurality and diversity, in which citizens are NOT being dictated by religious leaders, political leaders, AND CORRECT LEADERSHIP, and the well connected and powerful.... in terms of WHAT we may or may not say, where we may or may not say a certain things, which person we may or may not ridicule or criticized.

That is what we mean, when we use words and phrases like FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

And if we can not tolerate many "stupid people" running around giving us the middle finger, or telling us our beliefs and practices are primitive nonsense, WITH THE GOVERNMENT NOT PASSING A LAW PROHITING SUCH STUPID PEOPLE from insulting or ridiculing us... then it is OUR RIGHT TO MOVE THE FUCK AWAY from such a society.... into OTHER SOCIETIES that, like Laos, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, China, etc. that RUN BY NICE LEADERS WITH CORRECT IDEOLOGIES AND THOUGHTS, leaders and people who are ALWAYS NICE TO EACH OTHER, with, as Comrade "Thanouxay" et al. say, CORRECT and SMART and COURTEOUS ideas....

Again, there are PLENTY of societies run by GREAT and CORRECT leaders and courteous and smart and correct leadership and ideas.

WESTERN COUNTRIES, AND PEOPLE, are not those societies.

[Her Lao]

+++++++++++++

I rather he not go. Do you know how much to fly his specially equipped Boeing 747, per hour?

Do you know how many sharp shooters, uniformed and non-uniformed SS agents must be deploy every time the Almighty US President goes anywhere in the world?

It's too freakin' much to count; they usually give us TENS OF THOUSANDS by the HOUR... but I am sure in reality, it's too embarrassed for them to tell us the real numbers, so they give "ball park" estimates.

If it costs close to $100,000 to run just ONE OSPREY plane in the US armed forces, PER ONE HOUR, I am very certain Obama's presidential jets plus the THOUSANDS soldiers, agents, and support staff that must be put in play, every time he goes somewhere around the world.... THAT must cost at least $2M to $5M a day, in reality, for such a large contingency to move around...

So I am glad the Messiah didn't go! But they should have sent Biden or Kerry. It's not like Biden has any real job to do. The guy is just standing there to take the Messiah's place SHOULD the Messiah met an "unexpected" death...

[pizone]

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 4:32:36 PM UTC-8, Her Lao wrote:
> So, I see LINGUISTICS is the issue here, with you, not issues dealing with the NOTION of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
>

it's not the language or linguistics. you don't have to be a language teacher to understand the meaning of the word "random" or the concept of the term "freedom of speech". you just bla bla about "freedom of speech" showing your writing skill most people don't care to read. we talk about substance here not about english language.

in this Google area, even people living on the top of the mountain can find the meaning, definition, notion, concept... of any english word or term.


pizone

[Her Lao]

Dude, at a certain point you must admit you're grasping at straws. And you ARE grasping at straws.

There is really NO EVIDENCE to suggest that, per the way I used the word RANDOM in that sentence I used there, AND PER the phrase FREEDOM OF SPEECH... that I can not understand the difference between the two.

You are SUGGESTING that that is the case, of course.

I mean, are you really a dunce? Or are you just pretending to be?

It DOES SEEM that you're really not a dunce.

But once you FOUND that your fence straddling was really not supportable or comfortable ---- "I love freedom of speech, like everyone, including those at the weekly satire Charlie Hebdo... BUT I am a smarter person who uses his smartness to know WHEN and WHERE not to say stupid things about people who say they WOULD KILL ME if I satirized or ridiculed them," etc. ad nauseam ----- you TURNED the whole argument into MY USAGE of the term RANDOM, and JUXTAPOSED that word with the phrase FREEDOM OF SPEECH, and concluded that I didn't really know the meaning of FREEDOM OF SPEECH, since I used the word RANDOM in a sentence.... to indicate that a person, if he's truly free, truly enjoying freedom of speech... that he MUST BE ABLE TO RANDOMLY PICK ANY TOPIC, including one that deals with PROHIBITIVE leaders, ideas, holy/divine figures, etc.

I mean, seriously, you ARE constipating and grasping at straws; and it doesn't look very cute or appropriate.

[pizone]

dude i didn't say anything you blabla here. i even don't read all of your blabla about "freedom of speech" simply most people know what it is.

there's nothing to learn or to teach here. just talk straigh to the point would you. don't put your words in people's mouth. i didn't say anything like you blablabla or suggest that i've said.

pizone

[Her Lao]

Funny how grown up and educated men could act strangely childish, when they are caught with a hand stuck in the cookie jar.

They blame it on Santa Claus, Ai Moke Daeng, Spider Man, Ghosts, their opponents, Satan, and everyone else they could think of...

AGAIN:

FREEDOM OF SPEECH means you could ----- from a list of ENDLESS topics & issues & ideas & humans & figures ----- RANDOMLY PICK ANY TOPIC to write about, to bitch about, to critique.

JUST BECAUSE writers, cartoonists, & editors at CHARLIE HEBDO, or anywhere else, PICKED the MAN ON A WINGED HORSE to write about, to critique, to ridicule, THIS TIME ... IT DOES NOT MEAN the picking is not random from A LIST OF ENDLESS IDEAS....

Writers and satirists and editors, at both Charlie Hebdo & other organizations, HAVE been writing about, critiquing, satirizing, and ridiculing ideas, people, organizations, figures, etc. for AGES...

There is NO BUT in FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

In societies like Laos, under the CORRECT LEADERSHIP, in Saudi Arabia, in Iran, in North Korea, in China, etc. THERE IS A BUT, yes.

That's because THOSE ARE NOT SOCIETIES that permit FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

In those societies, THEREFORE, you CAN'T and SHOULDN'T criticize or ridicule THE LEADERS, both religious and political, or anyone else the LEADERS say you can not and should not criticize or ridicule.

How COMPLEX is that to understand, for a grown-up man of 30, 40, 50, 60, or 70 years of age?

[CASALAO]

a forceful speech at the french national assembly by prime minister manuel valls
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2enlmd_manuel-valls-ovationne-rend-hommage-aux-forces-de-l-ordre-et-vise-dieudonne-dans-son-discours-a-l-as_news

the entire speech in french
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcX1iQ9TLPI

[Her Lao]

One last clarification, for those for whom elementary statistics isn't a subject they deal with or like to deal with:

From a list of ENDLESS items, ideas, people, events, etc., IT IS NOT RANDOM if every time you pick one topic to write about, to critique, or to ridicule... IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME EXACT ONE YOU'VE PICKED THE LAST TIME.... and that's all you do: pick the SAME TOPIC/ISSUE/PERSON/IDEA to write about, to critique, to ridicule ----- from a LIST OF ENDLESS topics & issues & ideas & names & figures ---- each and every time you write or talk or bitch or blah....

Yes, THAT would NOT be something we would call being "random." That would be VERY UNIQUELY SELECTIVE (targeted).

[CASALAO]

goddamn, buddhadamn, allahdamn... charlie hebdo has sold out all of its three million copies of this week's edition in minutes early this wednesday morning and is printing two more million for tomorrow. this is a statement about freedom of speech and democracy.

http://www.thanhniennews.com/world/charlie-hebdo-all-is-forgiven-edition-sells-out-in-minutes-37611.html

[CASALAO]

https://vine.co/v/ODtJQrM5Mva

[pizone]

Yeah really funny! But who's the kid who got caught with both hands stuck in the cookie jar?

here's how it starts:

I simple questioned the use of freedom of speech by asking.
"does "free speech" means "free to insult people"? "

You replied,
"Yes, that's EXACTLY part of what we mean "freedom of speech." And blablabla...

Since you said you have the right to insult people, I then asked,
"should they have the same right to insult you back?".

(My question is about fairness and justice for all, not about the definition of freedom of speech you kept and keep blablabla...)

You replied,
"That's the whole idea behind FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I can say, "Fuck you, you moron... Not only are you a moron, you mommy and pappy and imaginary creator of the universe and ...."

I asked,
"if you don't have power/money to build big co. to say/draw "fuck you" back, then would you just give up your "freedom of speech" and listen to your "fuck you" day in day out?".

(Again, my question is about "fairness & justice for all", and not the "definition" of freedom of speech you keep blablabla...)

You replied about what you mean by freedom of speech..., then gave example,
"Let's say you're a successful real estate developing, flipping lands and properties right and left, making millions a year..." following by insulting me of not having basic thought by saying,

"Pizone, you don't seem to understand basic thoughts, do you?"

Here's my reply,
"her lao,
If you change "business" to "colonizing" in your example, that would be more realistic and you might see the bigger picture of the real world we're living in.

Instead of you develop/flipping land, making it more valuable to sell for profit..., you develop war ships, canons, and guns, then sail far away to take over other people's land or countries.... that's the root cause of the problem the new world is facing.

You have to fix the root of the problem and not giving "fuck you" or "love you" to the people who don't think/beleive like you."

(Again, you're incapable of understanding what you read. I talked about fairness & justice for all, and the root cause of the problem France is facing now, not the definition of freedom of speech you kept blablabla.)

then you started to use the word "random"

I asked you,
"do you really believe those cartoons are "Random"????"

(you can go back and read the whole email exchanges and figure out who is the kid who got caught hands stuck in the cookie jar?

Pizone

[Her Lao]

Pizone, you are talking in complete gibberish.

You are, it is clear, NOT bright enough to understand that FREEDO OF SPEECH means having the right to insult, having the right to compliment, having the right to say ANY THING.

There is NO BUT in having FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Not here in the West.

Again, if YOU or any one who KNOW HOW TO USE the correct or smart kind of freedom of speech ---- knowing when NOT to insult, etc. ---- like what they mean in COUNTRIES like Laos, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. where ONE WRONG WORD against a politician, a royal family, a cleric, etc. CAN GET YOU 10 YEARS OF HARD LABOR, hundreds of thousands of dollars in fine, and hundreds to thousands of PUBLIC SLASHES or whipping..... YOU SHOULD MOVE TO THOSE COUNTRIES.

It is NOT that complicated.

In these WESTERN SOCIETIES, independent thinkers and writers WILL NOT BOW to your request for, or demand of, submission.

Talking in gibberish about ME TELLING YOU THAT VERY SMALL REALITY, which you don't like, is not going to get you anywhere.

I WILL REPEAT as many times as needed:

FREEDOM OF SPEECH in Western societies --- and THAT'S WHERE WE LIVE IN ---- has no BUT in it.

ANY ONE or GROUP that demands that A BUT BE PUT INTO OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH ---- when it comes to some special or holy idea or man of theirs, and if we don't conform or submit to or abide by that request and demand, that it is their right to grab an AK47 and walk into a local newspaper, coffee shop, school, or office and mow down everyone in sight ---- DOES NOT BELONG IN WESTERN SOCIETIES.

I will repeat that for as long, & as often, as needed.

[pizone]

her lao,

you might be good in writing, but as far as reading skill is concerned you're so behind. you don't try to understand what people try to say, you just jump to conclusion blaming, insulting, assuming people said this, suggesting that....

either you're incapable of understanding what you read or you're pretending to be dumb after people found your hand in the jar. keep on blablabla about what you can do freely to other people with the "freedom of speech", and stupidly assuming that people won't do the same to you as much as they can and in any way they can.

pizone

pizone

[Her Lao]

I will repeat: FREEDOM OF SPEECH in WESTERN COUNTRIES does not have a BUT in it.

YOU or I or ANY ONE ELSE who would show up at the large French rally for the victims of Charlie Hebdo, as well as for the IDEALS underpinned in FREEDOM OF SPEECH would look buffoonery, if we went with the sign:

"I AM CHARLIE HEBDO BUT..."

You only go there if you believe FREEDOM OF SPEECH HAS NO BUT in it.

Walking with millions of people in a RALLY whose ideological underpinning you DON'T BELIEVE IN --- or it is a MODIFIED AND/OR DIFFERENT VERSION YOU BELIEVE IN ----- is not only a hypocritical thing to do, it is also a waste of time.

For some reason, you older and conservative people are stuck with things like INSULT. Yeah, I like freedom of speech, like the next guy, but I WON'T INSULT NOBODY. Why would you insult somebody, or their beliefs, JUST TO EXPRESS YOUR STUPID FREEDOM OF SPEECH? You must not be very bright...

THAT is the attitude of small-minded, conservative people who are into some alternative reality of what it means to have FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

They always focus on ONE THING, usually a thing they take it to be "bad" or "negative" or "stupidity" and they say IF YOU DO IT, then it shows you are not smart enough to have FREEDOM OF SPEECH, because "if you were smart enough, even with freedom of speech, you DON'T insult or ridicule people, especially if THOSE people say they're gonna kill you, to shut your stupid and vulgar mouth..."

THAT kind of attitude and disposition is the one most conservative and elder people use, when they are not educated or naturally intelligent enough to understand that FREEDOM OF SPEECH means MORE THAN JUST INSULTING and RIDICULING people, ALTHOUGH, indeed, insulting and ridiculing people IS AN INTEGRAL PART AND PARCEL of that notion, that ideal of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Again:

CONDITIONAL FREEDOM OF SPEECH ---- "Yes, we have ALL THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH HERE, BUT we just can't or shouldn't insult each other, or insult the Great Leader or HIS CORRECT LEADERSHIP, or his families, or the Holy Book, or the King and Queen, or ANY OTHER ideas or figures THE AUTHORITIES AND LEADERS say we can't insult or ridicule... but, otherwise, we do indeed have freedom of speech here, THE SMART KIND of freedom of speech...."

Do YOU see how utterly RIDICULOUS such babbling is?

How could ANY slightly intelligent person take that as a serious argument?

Answer: there are BILLIONS of people who aren't very bright, so THEY ASSERT that kind of bullshit, as arguments, is the best, the smartest, and the most correct and appropriate KIND of FREEDOM OF SPEECH...

Sorry, that is NOT how FREEDOM OF SPEECH is understood or used or practiced our Western societies here.

You don't like it ---- and if you think YOUR FAIRY TALE HOLY MAN, DIVINE CREATOR, HOLY BOOK, SACRED BOOK, SACRED IDEA, KING, CLERIC, etc. should not and must not be insulted or ridiculed or drawn or criticized; and if people, here, don't listen to your nice request, that you OR OTHERS WHO ARE ALSO INTO YOUR STONE, IRON, AND BRONZE AGE FAIRY TALES could grab a gun and go mow down people in schools, offices, theaters, parks, hospitals, etc. ---- you HAVE WILLING COME TO THE WRONG SOCIETY... You need to return to A COUNTRY, OR A PLACE, where the majority OR EVERYONE believes and acts and behaves THE WAY YOU WANT.

WESTERN SOCIETIES ARE NOT FOR YOU.

Harsh but let's keep it simple, so even mediocre people, of which there are plenty, don't have any problem grasping...

[CASALAO]

disturbing video from the ISIS front
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFepbdqKVl8

[pizone]

i didn't see your "BUT..." sign on the streets of Paris. where do you see it? what is following your "but"?

i only see other phrases representing others issues france is facing other than just "Je suis Charlie"

freedom of speech is the same everywhere, only people use it differently. it's a tool just like pencil, gun, car....

it's a waste of time to talk to people who don't know or can't differentiate 'right' from 'wrong'.

pizone

[CASALAO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujn7SK-wJQY

the belgium police ratted out muslim terrorists in verviers this evening. the AK47 used by the terrorists in paris were bought in belgium.

all in all, it is a clash of two civilizations: one that is very open with free expression in the form of satire and the other still lives in the middle ages and believing in crap like if one dies in the name of allah, one goes to heaven with 72 virgins waiting at the heaven's gate.

[Her Lao]

On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 1:28:01 PM UTC-6, pizone wrote:
> i didn't see your "BUT..." sign on the streets of Paris. where do you see it? what is following your "but"?
>
> i only see other phrases representing others issues france is facing other than just "Je suis Charlie"
>
> freedom of speech is the same everywhere, only people use it differently. it's a tool just like pencil, gun, car....
>
> it's a waste of time to talk to people who don't know or can't differentiate 'right' from 'wrong'.
>
> pizone
>
>

+++++++++++

Of course you're not going to see my "But..." sign. Perhaps you are, again, pretending to be really dense; or perhaps you really are a dunce.


In any event, personal views on each other NOTWITHSTANDING, that is the whole disagreement here: In FREEDOM OF SPEECH I don't see and don't need a "BUT" attached to it.

You, on the other hand, you say you do:

E.g., I like FREEDOM OF SPEECH... just like the next guy... BUT... I know right from wrong. And to insult and to ridicule Muslim's Holy Prophent is wrong... And I would never get an AK47 and go mow down cartoonists, editors, writers, et al. who do those things... BUT I UNDERSTAND WHY MUSLIMS DO IT....

THAT IS YOUR POSITION, no?

Again, it is more than obvious you bit more than you could chew; there is a substantial lack of intellectual understanding going on here.

Perhaps it is due to the fact that all of us learned English as a second, or third, or fourth language, so there is a communication problem.

THE CRUX OF THE MATTER, in Charlie Hebdo, AGAIN, deals with FREEDOM OF SPEECH.... FREEDOM OF SPEECH as we Westerners ---- and those who've come live and to be a PART of the West ---- define, honor, and go by HERE IN THE WEST.

It is NOT about your notion, or Muslim's notion, of "right" and "wrong"... and whether someone who is "smart" like you know how to distinguish them from one another, on the one hand, and someone like me who does not, on the other...

[CASALAO]

a clash of two civilizations:

http://news.yahoo.com/washington-condemns-anti-charlie-hebdo-protests-224254737.html

[CASALAO]

http://www.lemonde.fr/actualite-medias/article/2015/01/19/la-une-de-fluide-glacial-irrite-le-global-times_4558670_3236.html

obviously there is no limit to what the french satire can say. now this magazine is tackling the YELLOW PERIL under its current edition perhaps imitating CHARLIE HEBDO to boost its sale.

[CASALAO]

i know FOX NEWS spread FAUX NEWS but this bad? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-tTHmrsXB8

[pizone]

her lao,

You need a mirror to look at yourself before accusing other. You aren't different from those terrorists, who blindly believe in their absolute God, and for you, the only difference is the direction. You blindly believe in your absolute "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" as a wonna be Westerner.

What make you different from them, the terrorist, if they're extremists to the left and you're extremist to the right?

It's NOT the level of English or how fancy the words you used that matter here. It's the level of understanding, thinking, and believing concerning this issue that most people pay attention to. And so far, people who read this thread already know what I've said and what you've blablablaed.

It clearly showed who am I and who are you a person as far as personal thinking or believing is concerned toward this issue.

Even CNN and many big media co. in the US see and use your "BUT" by NOT showing the front cover of "Charlie" publication first published right after the attack. Are they NOT Westerners? Are they NOT freedom of speech believers?

People aren't born to be the same, not physically nor spiritually. No one believes exactly the same way, and definitely not of the same "thing".

Everything changes. It all depends on the "space and time". We, as human being, change too. Even science as far as Human knows of it, changes with "space and time".

When I said (you) don't know the difference between right and wrong, I mean you're too stupid not to know where you stand in "space and time. It doesn't mean I'm smart to know what is right or what is wrong.

In another words, if you still can't see it, it also means there's NO absolutely right, nor absolutely wrong if you don't define where you stand in "space and time"


Pizone

[CASALAO]

hilarious stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRV2kUL1c8s

[Her Lao]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 1:00:11 PM UTC-6, pizone wrote:
> her lao,
>
> You need a mirror to look at yourself before accusing other. You aren't different from those terrorists, who blindly believe in their absolute God, and for you, the only difference is the direction. You blindly believe in your absolute "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" as a wonna be Westerner.

No, Pizone. YOU ARE more like those terrorists than I.

I don't believe in guns; I don't believe in fairy tale nonsense about some divine or holy man on a winged horse, or someone who walks on water.

I am NOT a wannabe westerner. I AM one.

I grew up and live here in the West and will die here, as a westerner. I don't wish to be elsewhere. I don't believe Laos system, or Saudi Arabia's, or Iran's or China's or North Korea's.... I KNOW I WILL NEVER SURVIVE IN ANY OF THOSE SYSTEMS, based on the kind of "smart" you apparently have or believe in.

My BIRTH in Laos was purely AN ACCIDENTAL EVENT OF HISTORY, of tiny, local, northern Luangprabang history. It is NOT about me, or who I am.

My ideas and the ideas of OTHER PEOPLE, here in the West, JUST HAPPEN TO OVER-LAPPED; I don't adopt theirs, pretending to be like them, LIKE YOU. Of course, you meant to say you don't try to be. I am sure you're right.

You are in the wrong place!, since deep down, you don't hold the same values and norms and beliefs and world views as others of us here in the WEST do... from America, to Canada, to France, to England, to Germany, to Sweden....

>
> What make you different from them, the terrorist, if they're extremists to the left and you're extremist to the right?

Nonsense.

>
> It's NOT the level of English or how fancy the words you used that matter here. It's the level of understanding, thinking, and believing concerning this issue that most people pay attention to. And so far, people who read this thread already know what I've said and what you've blablablaed.

Gibberish nonsense.

>
> It clearly showed who am I and who are you a person as far as personal thinking or believing is concerned toward this issue.
>
> Even CNN and many big media co. in the US see and use your "BUT" by NOT showing the front cover of "Charlie" publication first published right after the attack. Are they NOT Westerners? Are they NOT freedom of speech believers?

Isn't THAT what FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS ABOUT?

You, time and time, fail to understand a SIMPLE NOTION OF "freedom of speech."

You insist that there is BUT attached to it: "I believe in freedom of speech, BUT I KNOW WHEN TO BE SMART..."

Isn't THAT you position?

Who the fuck that gets to say that whatever CNN, or the NY Times, or You, or ANY OTHER entity or person or people do... that I TOO HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING.. and that if you shut your mouth ON A CERTAIN TOPIC, that I too must do it?

Who the fuck get to decide that? You? The terrorists who could and would do it via AK47s? Or is it I, who gets to decide what I can or cannot, should or should not, say?

Is that THAT complex for you to grasp?

>
> People aren't born to be the same, not physically nor spiritually. No one believes exactly the same way, and definitely not of the same "thing".

Exactly. So NO ONE SHOULD TELL YOU, OR ME, OR CHARLIE HEBDO what to draw, or not to draw, what to write or not to write, what to say, or not to say, EVEN AT THE THREAT OF DEATHS...

Isn't that what FREEDOM OF SPEECH means?

Apparently not for you and these fairy tale worshippers who say their holy prophet and holy velveteen rabbit creator of the universe are somehow in need of their vigilant and help.

Imagine such utter nonsense: the Creator of the Universe and his HOLY PROPHET, WHO RIDES A WINGED HORSE, need to help of some gun toting psychopatholocally dangerous nuts running around decapitating heads and displaying them in public squares.... as HELPERS!

>
> Everything changes. It all depends on the "space and time". We, as human being, change too. Even science as far as Human knows of it, changes with "space and time".
>

Sorry, it is apparently I don't have the "smart" you have to understand such deep and irrelevant observation.

> When I said (you) don't know the difference between right and wrong, I mean you're too stupid not to know where you stand in "space and time. It doesn't mean I'm smart to know what is right or what is wrong.

Again, I am way too stupid, not smart enough, to have a grasp of your gibberish there.

>
> In another words, if you still can't see it, it also means there's NO absolutely right, nor absolutely wrong if you don't define where you stand in "space and time"
>

Sure, man, whatever you "smart" people say! You, after all, like Laos leaders, like those Islamists, like China's leaders and North Korea's leaders, and Iran's leaders and Saudi Arabia's leaders.... you SMART AND CORRECT PEOPLE know bests and the deepest, when it comes to space-time and other deep stuff!

[pizone]

her lao,

again, you still stick on the definition of 'freedom of speech', which I don't care much about it. It's too simple thing, anyone can't find it everywhere in books or in the web, if they don't know it.

i told you before, "freedom of speech" is a tool just like a pen, gun, car, sickle, hummer, .... it's made for people to use it. It's the "use" of it that is more important than its definition because it can tell how smart or dumb you're by "how and when" you use it.

Any tool has side-effect if you don't use it properly. You use your car to go somewhere and not to run over some people property, right?

BUT in a special circumstance like when you're in front of the coming Tsunami, running your car over some people property to get out of the way of that monster wave would be a SMART thing to do, wouldn't you think so?

That's why I said "it all depends on space and time" in my last post.

I'm talking about the use of freedom of speech, and not its definition you keep blablabla until now.

To me, just to know what freedom of speech is and know how to describe it in good English writing might only make you look high educated, BUT it doesn't tell how smart, dumb, or so-so you are.

Contrarily, "knowing how and when to use this tool" can tell you if you're smart or not. That's what I meant when I use the word "smart", I DIDN'T say you, I, all the people you mentioned, as a person, is smart or dumb, get it?

pizone

[Her Lao]

On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 1:07:19 PM UTC-6, pizone wrote:
> her lao,
>

> again, you still stick on the definition of 'freedom of speech', which I don't care much about it. It's too simple thing, anyone can't find it everywhere in books or in the web, if they don't know it.

I know, that's the crux of all these postings: that you DON'T CARE ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH as we westerners take IT TO BE.

You don't care HOW Western societies, values, norms, etc. came to be, AS IT IS THESE DAYS.... values and norms that have made western society TAKE YOU AND ME IN, to save us from whatever the fuck OTHER KINDS OF SOCIETIES WE COULD NOT HAVE LIVED IN and lived in in a HAPPY WAY like we are now...

I know you don't care about that.

All you care is that smart people, THOSE LIKE YOU, use "freedom of speech" in the SMART and CORRECT WAY... as Muslims demand, with guns.

I don't understand why you need to remind me on something BOTH you and I have agreed to...

>
> i told you before, "freedom of speech" is a tool just like a pen, gun, car, sickle, hummer, .... it's made for people to use it. It's the "use" of it that is more important than its definition because it can tell how smart or dumb you're by "how and when" you use it.

I told you: you are not intelligent enough to grasp what FREEDOM OF SPEECH means, so you add on a whole bunch gibberish you think SMART PEOPLE should know and should abide by... I know that. You don't seem to know that I know that you know that, and I am okay with it. I am just saying you're in the WRONG SOCIETY.

If you or conservatives don't like to be insulted, for your fairy tale beliefs ---- fairy tales that many other believe and many others are also insulted ---- you and Conservative Muslims should find a society so smart people like you all, WHO ARE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW "RIGHT" FROM "WRONG," won't have to live with stupid, big-mouthed LIBERALS like me and other Westerners, WHO DO NOT LIKE TO ABIDE BY OTHERS TELLING THEM what they can or can not write, say, draw, insult, etc.

>
> Any tool has side-effect if you don't use it properly. You use your car to go somewhere and not to run over some people property, right?

You are talking gibberish.

>
> BUT in a special circumstance like when you're in front of the coming Tsunami, running your car over some people property to get out of the way of that monster wave would be a SMART thing to do, wouldn't you think so?

More gibberish.

>
> That's why I said "it all depends on space and time" in my last post.

More gibberish.

>
> I'm talking about the use of freedom of speech, and not its definition you keep blablabla until now.

You are talking in gibberish. I know, you think it's really deep, philosophical, sophisticated, and smart.

To me, to Westerners and Liberals, what you and these CLERICS and WISEMEN AND SMART AND CORRECT LEADERS of THIRD WORLD SOCIETIES ARE SAYING are just mindless gibberish.... it's just gibberish only religious and conservative and people like you talk and believe in...

[pizone]

On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 3:52:32 PM UTC-8, Her Lao wrote:

> If you or conservatives don't like to be insulted, for your fairy tale beliefs ---- fairy tales that many other believe and many others are also insulted ---- you and Conservative Muslims should find a society so smart people like you all, WHO ARE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW "RIGHT" FROM "WRONG," won't have to live with stupid, big-mouthed LIBERALS like me and other Westerners, WHO DO NOT LIKE TO ABIDE BY OTHERS TELLING THEM what they can or can not write, say, draw, insult, etc.
>

The more you talk, the more you show yourself to be NOT different from those extremist terrorists. Now, just because i DON'T think like you, don't believe like you, then you want to chase me and conservatives out of your liberal westerners society.

you want to live wit people like you, the big-mounted liberals and westerners as you said, the people who believe in non-fairy-tale like you. anyone else who don't share your view must pack and leave.

doesn't it sound like those terrorists who don't want christians and people who aren't like them to live with them in their country?

what kind of "freedom of speech" you keep preaching if you want people who aren't like you to find another society to live? to get out of your way, to leave your Liberal Westerner society?

keep on blablabla your non-gibberish sh*t

pizone

[Her Lao]

It has NOTHING to do with me personally not liking you, personally... Or vice versa.

That is IRRELEVANT, true or false. Although YOU, Pizone, don't seem to understand it...

The issue, to repeat and I will repeat as many times as needed, is this:

YOU are not intelligent enough to understand ---- or, AT BEST, you DON'T believe in ----- the BASIC & FUNDAMENTAL principle of FREEDOM OF SPEECH WE HERE IN THE WEST use & abide by & believe in.... a basic & fundamental principle that underpins our notion & our understanding of DEMOCRACY, pluralism, separation of religion and state.

You either don't understand ---- due to EITHER a lack of sufficient intelligence or a mental disposition that makes you YEARN to be somewhere else where YOUR NOTION OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH reigns supreme ---- that in a FREE SOCIETY, like the West here, ONE OF THE PRICES OF BEING FREE means you HAD TO ENDURE INSULTS.

That, in a free society, YOU CAN ALSO INSULT.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO INSULT, Pizone. No one can or should make you insult others! That is the whole fuckin' deal, to live in a FREE SOCIETY, with FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

You don't have to USE EVERY FUCKIN' RIGHT YOU ARE ACCORDED, LEGALLY OR OTHERWISE, in a free society of plurality, with freedom of speech and the press!

::::::::

But you, Pizone, ON THE OTHER HAND... This is how your little rigid mind works:

You want FREEDOM OF SPEECH & freedom of the press... like anyone else... BUT YOU ALSO WANT, AS AN ATTACHEMENT TO THAT, a "BUT"...

1. BUT... Muslims & their holy and/or divine books & holy figures & ideas & holy and/or sacred properties like Mosques, etc, must not be insulted.

There needs to be, there must be, A LAW AGAINST INSULTS against Muslims, Muslim Martyrs, Islam, the Quran & other Islamic Holy books, other holy ideas, Allah, his Holy Prophet Mohammed & Families... with HEAVY & APPROPRIATE PENALTY so as to stop stupid idiots whose job is always to insult others...

2. BUT ... Jews & the holy books & holy ideas & figures & holy properties must not be insulted.

There needs to be, there must be, A LAW AGAINST INSULTS against Judaism, Jews, Moses, their holy books and revered figures, their God, and Jewish holy properties... with severe enough consequences if violated by idiots whose only purpose in life is to insult people and their beliefs and holy ideas and books and properties...

3. BUT.... Christians & their holy ideas & holy books & holy figures & holy properties must not be insulted.

There needs to be and there must be A LAW AGAINST INSULTS against Christianity, Christians, Jesus, his DADM, GOD, and Churches, the Vatican and the current Pope and ALL THE PREVIOUS POPES, saint or not, Martin Luther, and all other saints and important figures of Christianity...with heavy & appropriate consequences, to discourage idiots with big mouths...

4. BUT... Buddhists & their holy ideas & books, and holy figures and properties must not be insulted.

There needs to be, there must be, A LAW AGAINST INSULTS when it comes to Buddhists, Buddhism, the Buddha and Buddhist sacred and holy books, monks, temples, properties of Buddhists.... with the appropriately heavy penalty, so as to stop idiots with big mouths from yap-yap-yap against Buddhists & Buddhism & and their sacred books and figures & temples...

5. BUT... Hindus & their holy and/or sacred books, figures & properties must not be insulted.

There needs to be, there must be, A LAW AGAINST INSULT when it comes to Hinduism, Hindus, their sacred texts, properties, & figures... with the appropriately HEAVY PENALTY, so as to make sure stupid people don't run their big, trashy mouths...

6. __________________________________________________________________

7. __________________________________________________________________

8. __________________________________________________________________

.

.

.

Etc.



THAT is your understanding of FREEDOM OF SPEECH, no, Mr. Pizone?

WHO, then, is more like these Muslims extremists: Her Lao or Pizone?

[pizone]

you're funny and funnier Her Lao! you accuse people of believing in fairy tale. BUT you, yourself, not just believe in fairy tale, you create your own fairy tales and you believe in all of them, all in your list here.

i didn't say i am, nor i believe in any of your fairy tales in your BUT list. cammon wake up her lao. don't make up your own fairy tales, then believe in them as real. you're close to become a person who talk to oneseld like many living on street in downtown.

pizone

[Her Lao]

On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 11:50:06 AM UTC-6, pizone wrote:
> you're funny and funnier Her Lao! you accuse people of believing in fairy tale. BUT you, yourself, not just believe in fairy tale, you create your own fairy tales and you believe in all of them, all in your list here.

That is because you are not bright enough to understand that ONCE you put a BUT to the notion of FREEDOM OF SPEECH, you get AN ENDLESS LIST like I did that, AS EXAMPLES.

Are you fancying yourself, now, smart enough to DISPROVE any of what I said?

Should Hmong and their animist beliefs and their "sacred" rituals be EXEMPT from that list? (that is, should people be able to INSULT Hmong?)

Should Lao and Buddhism and their "sacred" rituals be EXEMPT from that list? (That is, should we be able to insult Lao, Buddhism, and their rituals?)

OR ARE YOU SAYING ONLY MUSLIMS AND THEIR WINGED HORSE RIDING HOLY PROPHET BE EXEMPT... should Mohammed and the Quran be the ONLY TWO THINGS with a SPECIAL LAW, as many Muslims, INCLUDING THE VERY EXTREME as well as hundreds of millions of the AVERAGE Muslims...

What the fuck are you saying?

Is your English so poor, you're not able to understand basic things like that?

I have already told you your "I am for FREEDOM OF SPEECH just like the next buy BUT I AM SMART ENOUGH TO USE IT CORRECTLY" is a nonsensical statement.

It is EXACTLY like a Communist Leader in Laos or China, or a ruling class in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. would say: --- and that is

"We are for FREEDOM OF SPEECH, like any one else, BUT WE HAVE LAWS HERE, in our cultures and countries that PROHIBIT BAD PEOPLE, BIG MOUTHED IDIOTS from INSULTING our holy leaders, creator of the universe, and THE CORRECT PARTY that wisely and harmoniously rule the country."

Are you saying you are THAT STUPID not to understand basic things like that, Pizone?, when you put a BUT after the notion of FREEDOM OF SPEECH...

[Her Lao]

Remember Her Lao's NOTION OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH:

You can say ANY THING..... including insulting ANY ONE, culture, idea, things, entity, political leaders, philosophy, political ideology, politics, rulers, servants, etc.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO, if you don't want to. NO ONE DEMANDS that you spend your day insulting people, ideas, leaders, fairy tale creators, holy books, etc. If you want, you are free to do so, IN A PLURALISTIC, FREE, WESTERN SOCIETY like the one we live here in the WEST.

THAT, remember, is Her Lao's FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Let's hear and see what "smart" Pizone's understanding and notion of FREEDOM OF SPEECH, sine Pizone, like SOME Muslims, says the Holy Prophet Mohammed, the Quran, Allah, etc. ARE NOT TO BE INSULTED ---- and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, there should be a LAW PROHIBITING SUCH INSULTS ---- and although he, Pizone, would likely not get a gun and go mow down those who do insult, THAT HE, PIZONE, UNDERSTANDD ANS SYMPATHIZE WHY these Muslims did it, in Paris.

Isn't that what Pizone has been saying ALL ALONG?

I understand that your English is not as good as, say, your Lao or French, Pizone.

But that is NOT "putting words" in your mouth.

That is what we called, in the English speaking world, a LOGICAL, REASONABLE INFERENCE.

Should that INFERENCE be wrong, LET US HEAR PIZONE's own and exact words, on his notion of what FREEDOM OF SPEECH ought to be like, here in the West......


And be very precise and exact:

(#1)

Should Pizone's exact words, exact take, on FREEDOM OF SPEECH here in the West be JUST A PERSONAL THING, like.... "If it's me, I won't insult nobody, even though I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH, like any other"?

Or Should it be:

(#2) "There HAD TO BE A LAW PROHIBITING stupid idiots with big mouth from insulting religions, people, rulers, creators of the universe, holy spirits, holy books, holy prophets, etc.... BECAUSE SUCH INSULTS ARE JUST AS DANGEROUS AS USING A GUN TO MOW DOWN people in offices, on the street, in their homes, etc"?


You would notice, if you were minimally intelligent enough, that #1, is THE STATUS QUO.

But if your notion, your understanding of FREEDOM OF SPEECH is #2, that you MUST articulate for us WHAT THE LAW SHOULD BE, on the one level.....

And, on another level, what THINGS, POLITICAL IDEAS, RELIGIOUS IDEAS, POLITICAL LEADERS, POLITICAL PARTIES, RELIGIOUS LEADERS, HOLY MEN AND/OR WOMEN, WHICH HOLY BOOK (or all of them, once someone proclaimed that theirs is a holy book), groups of people, ruling families, etc., etc.............. WHAT EXACTLY that you propose that NEED A LAW PROHIBITING STUPID PEOPLE FROM INSULTING....

Don't just babble about how smart you are, someone so smart, he knows his space and time and circumstances... and he won't do shits like stupid Her Lao or other dangerous idiots.

That is IRRELEVANT. Western societies DO NOT CARE what Pizone PERSONALLY believes, in his personal conducts or beliefs...

Pizone is talking about ---- like the Muslims who use AK47s to mow down cartoonists, writers, editors, et al. in a news paper ---- A LAW PROHIBITING PEOPLE FROM INSULTING SPECIAL OR HOLY IDEAS, PEOPLE, CREATORS, BOOKS, LEADERS, etc.... saying insulting IS JUST AS DANGEROUS AN ACT as using guns mowing down people in offices, in the streets, etc.

Let's hear Pizone's LAW, or proposal for such a law, #1.

And, #2, let's hear his LIST of, again, the people, rulers, ideas, holy or divine ideas, individuals, creators, ideologies, etc. that SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT SPECIAL LIST... that Pizone's LAW would cover...

Let's hear it from the smart man's mouth.

[pizone]

her lao,

you're now even funnier than before. keep talking to yourself, pretty soon you find lots of friends walking on street and talking to themselve.

keep on believing in what you make up, your endless fairy tales. you can imagine and assuming/suggesting anything you like. you can insult anyone, lick anybody's ass is your free to do that, who care?

but assuming i'm this or that and keep blablabla insulting people based only on your imagination is NOT a nice educated person would do, don't you think so?

if you're real good in english, prove it to me and to the readers here, that where&when i said things like in your fairy tale #1 or #2 or any # of your endless stupid fairy tales.

pizone

[KC]

Each of you has a different viewpoint of the meaning of the "Freedom of Speech". You can debate all year long and I believe neither Pizone nor Her Lao is correct. Therefore, I'm exercising my freedom of speech to move a motion to end your freedom of speech on this topic. Please do not ask me, if I do understand the Freedom of Speech. Thank you.

[Her Lao]

You truly are really grasping at straw, Pizone.

Again, I will repeat it, as many times as necessary, since you are not very bright.

The issue is NOT about whether Her Lao is funny or not.

Who gives fuck about that?

The issue is:

Let's SEE "smart" Pizone's NOTION of FREEDOM OF SPEECH, the one that he wants WESTERN SOCIETIES LIKE OURS TO ADOPT, with LAWS.

Are you going to articulate THAT?, or are you going to keep talking about how funny or hilarious or stupid Her Lao iss, that he is not smart enough to understand FREEDOM OF SPEECH like you do?

Remember, Pizone and these MUSLIMS want A FUCKIN' LAW TO PROHIBIT WESTERN SOCIETIES AND PEOPLE from insulting ISLAM, MOHAMMED, ALLAH, the QURAN, and other such fairy tale nonsense.

I assume, of course, that the "smart pizone" would ALSO WANT A LAW THAT IS BROAD ENOUGH TO COVER INSULTS when it comes to Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Animism, AND ALL OTHER HOLY, SACRED, DIVINE, OR ENLGTENED things, person, gods, spirits, entities, AS WELL AS "correct ideas" and "correct leadership" and "correct" political parties......

Again, if THAT ASSUMPTION IS NOT CORRECT, please, correct me and TELL ME EXACTLY HOW NARROW PIZONE'S PROPOSED LAW IS, when it comes to insults against holy, divine, sacred, or other such fairy tale nonsense....

Again, whether the "smart" Pizone THINKS HER LAO IS FUNNY, or more funnier every time, is IRRELEVANT.

It is PIZONE'S PROPOSED LAW prohibiting people like Her Lao, those at Charlie Hebdo, etc. from insulting things, ideas, person, holy prophets, holy books, etc. THAT IS IMPORTANT.

So, let's see the "smart" Pizone's PROPOSE LAW in that regard...

[Her Lao]

KC:

#1. It is a given different people believe in different notions of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Under the LPDR, in Saudi Arabia, they have SPECIFIC LAWS about FREEDOM OF SPEECH in their particular societies. AND THE EXACT PUNISHMENT meted out when, in the running of one's big mouth, one violates those LAWS.

#2. WESTERN SOCIETIES do NOT have a LAW PRESCRIBING ANY PROHIBITION against insulting Allah, God, Jesus, Mohammed, the Bible, the Quran, Buddhists and Buddhism, Hindus and Hinduism, Judaism and Jews, Animists and Ancestor worshippers.

We do NOT HAVE SUCH LAWS.... like Laos does, like Saudi Arabia does, like Pakistan does, like Iran does, like China does, like North Korea does... IN THEIR PARTICULAR BELIEFS, CULTURES, AND TRADITIONS and POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES and ROYAL FAMILIES AND KINGS AND QUEENS.

You can, I can, and ANY ELSE CAN ---- if we wanted to --- go to Washington, DC., of London, and CARRY A PLACARD or SIGN saying:

THE HOLY BIBLE IS SHIT

THE QUEEN IS A LESTIAN IDIOT

OBAMA IS A HITLER AND A MONKEY

CAMERON IS A RETARDED IDIOT

Etc.

Etc.

ANY NO POLICE MEN OR WOMEN WOULD ARREST YOU or me... much less give us 10 years of imprisonment and 1,000 lashes, and a fine of $250,000... like it is in some OTHER COUNTRIES, which, again, have LAWS AGAINST INSULTING holy prophets, holy books, holy religions, rulers and their families, etc.

THAT IS THE CRUX of the issue here.

It is NOT about how Her Lao is funny or not. Or how "smart" Pizone is, in his knowledge of the CORRECT or SMART kind of FREEDOM OF SPEECH, etc.

Person feelings or thoughts or wants and needs HAVE NO RELEVANCE in the issue.

But if someone, like Pizone and Muslims, said THEY THINK THERE MUST BE A LAW, IN AMERICA, FRANCE, ENGLAND, GERMANY, SWEDEN, CANADA, etc. PROHIBITING people from insulting Islam, Mohammed, the holy Quran, Allah, Mohammed's ideas and descendants, etc. OR ANY OTHER RELIGION OR HOLY BOOK OR HOLY IDEAS..... if someone or some people, HERE IN THE WESTERN WORLD, said that... then THEY MUST ARTICULATE WHAT KIND OF LAWS --- how broad or narrow such laws must be, in order to cover ALL THAT NEEDED TO BE COVER ---- we must pass, HERE IN THE WEST, in order to ensure THEIR NOTION OF THE RIGHT OR CORRECT OR BETTER FREEDOM OF SPEECH and PRESS...

(Of course, we all know, THOSE ARE PIPE DREAMS for Pizone and those Muslims, since NO SUCH LAWS would likely ever be passed here in the WEST... but it doesn't hurt to see their idiocy on paper, on-line... people who insist OTHERS MUST LIVE AND BELIEVE AND ACT AS THEY DO, here in the West...)

[pizone]

hey kc, that's a good freedom of speech in your part, it's annoying to me too to listen to a guy who talks to himself endlessly...

he's suppose to be good in english, but he even doesn't know or understand the meaning of the word "prove".

pizone

[Her Lao]

In short:

1. Her Lao believes in our CURRENT and WESTERN notion of FREEDOM OF SPEECH... where there is NO SACRD COWS, no holy man, no divine creator, no correct ideologies, no ruling families, etc. which are PROHIBITED FROM BEING INSULTED.

(This is the STUPID position stupid people like Her Lao, Charlie Hebdo, et al. with big stupid mouths, believe in.)

2. Pizone, Peace Loving Muslims, et al (& the truly SMART people who know when or where to keep their smart mind and mouth shut) say:

"Yes, we believe in FREEDOM OF SPEECH, TOO, even here in the West, or anywhere else...

"BUT THERE MUST BE A LAW --- with serious consequences, ranging from public flogging, to long imprisonment to death by hanging or torture or AK-147s, in public and in offices --- AGAINST INSULTING HOLY BOOKS, DIVINE CREATORS, HOLY PROPHETS, ENLIGHTENED INDIVIDUALS, CORRECT IDEOLOGIES AND POLTIICAL PARTIES, KINGS AND QUEENS & OTHER RULING FAMILIES, AS WELL AS, ALL RELIGIONS...."

[pizone]

On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 10:45:18 PM UTC-8, Her Lao wrote:
> In short:
>
> 1. Her Lao believes in our CURRENT and WESTERN notion of FREEDOM OF SPEECH... where there is NO SACRD COWS, no holy man, no divine creator, no correct ideologies, no ruling families, etc. which are PROHIBITED FROM BEING INSULTED.

yeah right, you're what you are, who care. the fact is there're many kinds of people, who still believe in different things living together in this planet called the world. 'freedom of speech' is universal, any kind of people can use it. it's not made for your kind of people only to use it.

> 2. Pizone, Peace Loving Muslims, et al (& the truly SMART people who know when or where to keep their smart mind and mouth shut) say:

To me, i think not just SMART people, but "normal" people too know when-and-where to shut up and when-and-where to open it. Only stupid people like you open your mouth all the time no matter when-and-where.

> "Yes, we believe in FREEDOM OF SPEECH, TOO, even here in the West, or anywhere else...
>
> "BUT THERE MUST BE A LAW --- with serious consequences, ranging from public flogging, to long imprisonment to death by hanging or torture or AK-147s, in public and in offices --- AGAINST INSULTING HOLY BOOKS, DIVINE CREATORS, HOLY PROPHETS, ENLIGHTENED INDIVIDUALS, CORRECT IDEOLOGIES AND POLTIICAL PARTIES, KINGS AND QUEENS & OTHER RULING FAMILIES, AS WELL AS, ALL RELIGIONS...."

WHERE and WHEN i said this? PROVE it. keep on believing in your stupid imagination and talking to yourself. again, who care!

pizone

[CASALAO]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/29/marine-le-pen-president-poll-_n_6573356.html

ok... while HL and PIZONE are duking out who's more right than whom, i am reading the above article with strong interest in the sense that if Marine LePen of the Front National gets elected to be the next French president in 2017 then a lot of things will change in france such as in order to visit marseille one has to know the marseillaise by heart and recite it on the spot or else can't go into the city or to climb the eiffel tower, one has to know the meaning of the three colors of the french flag and to visit versaille one has to know who charles martel is.

[Her Lao]

> To me, i think not just SMART people, but "normal" people too know when-and-where to shut up and when-and-where to open it. Only stupid people like you open your mouth all the time no matter when-and-where.

No doubt, Pizone is more intelligent than those stupid AND DEAD Charlie Hebdo cartoonists, writers, editors and journalists.

No doubt, if it is up to free speech loving and SMART people like Pizone AND the peace-loving "Islam is a religion of peace" Muslims who used AK47s to mow down those writers and cartoonists and editors... no doubt, MORE stupid people with big mouths like Her Lao AND others like those stupid big mouthed Charlie Hebdo writers and Cartoonists and editors... no doubt about it... THEY WILL DIE, too!

Stupid people who don't known WHEN to keep their big stupid mouths shut should all die, that's right.

That is Pizone and freedom loving Muslim Jihidists' NOTION of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

[Her Lao]

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:19:02 PM UTC-6, CASALAO wrote:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/29/marine-le-pen-president-poll-_n_6573356.html
>
> ok... while HL and PIZONE are duking out who's more right than whom, i am reading the above article with strong interest in the sense that if Marine LePen of the Front National gets elected to be the next French president in 2017 then a lot of things will change in france such as in order to visit marseille one has to know the marseillaise by heart and recite it on the spot or else can't go into the city or to climb the eiffel tower, one has to know the meaning of the three colors of the french flag and to visit versaille one has to know who charles martel is.

And who is Charles Martel?

Is he, was he, the symbolic name for which Charlie Hebdo was named after?

That argument of these right wing French nuts, in the Le Pen crowds, assume if people knew enough French to recite those mindless, patriotic jingoism nonsense, that they'd not harm others!

As Pizone and other naturally SMART people like those Muslim jihadists say, stupidity can't be ameliorated, much less fixed!

[CASALAO]

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 7:27:36 PM UTC-8, Her Lao wrote:
> And who is Charles Martel?

555... i don't know who charles martel is until now.

jean-marie le pen the elder has said 'je suis charles martel' instead of 'je suis charlie hebdo'

the Front National(FN) under marine le pen, daughter of jean-marie le pen, uses historic figures like jeanne d'arc and charles martel as their mascots to show who's the real french and who's not(les vrais français)

[CASALAO]

an insightful report on the KOUACHI brothers, the two terrorists who killed many charlie hebdo employees: http://www.reporterre.net/L-enfance-miserable-des-freres

[CASALAO]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31118020

[CASALAO]

finally got my charlie hebdo. goddamn... each costs 3 euros. the mag is doing good. 7 millions copies sold. you do the math.
http://s269.photobucket.com/user/casalao/media/IMG_3650.jpg.html

[Her Lao]

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 11:53:36 AM UTC-6, CASALAO wrote:
> finally got my charlie hebdo. goddamn... each costs 3 euros. the mag is doing good. 7 millions copies sold. you do the math.
> http://s269.photobucket.com/user/casalao/media/IMG_3650.jpg.html

++++++++++++

Me, I don't need to read the words of stupid, big mouth idiots who got what they deserved... justice from Allah's faithful who could only be so nice and polite, for so long, before they got their AK47s and went into the work places of these stupid idiots like those at Charlie Hebdo and mowed them down like the stupid idiots they were!

All stupid idiots who never know how to use FREEDOM OF SPEECH in a correct and smart way should face the same justice these Charlie Hebdo idiots did.

I am sure Jesus, the Buddha, and Mohammed all said the same thing, and condoned whatever acts necessary, to shut the mouths of idiots... since THEY ARE the targets/victims of these idiots with big mouths and no brains...

[Her Lao]

http://news.yahoo.com/seattle-muslims-demand-teacher-canned-showing-muhammad-cartoons-130143081.html

The lesson topic for that day's workshop was religious pluralism and freedom of speech.

The protest against Bhandaru occurred late Friday afternoon. Perhaps 15 to 20 people attended. A man named Hassan Diis was passing around pre-printed signs in English, according to a journalist on the scene.

Diis, who describes himself as a Somali community activist and a devout Muslim, said he was angered after he heard that the teacher showed cartoon images of Muhammad to Somali teens.

"We don't want someone to brainwash our children," he told The Daily Caller. "The prophet is very important for us."

Diis added that he believes that Bhandaru, who he says is not a Muslim, should no longer instruct Somali students at the Refugee Women's Alliance.

+++++++++++++++

Here, in America, you have illiterate parents who read and believe in little more than Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived fairy tales (of holy books, holy prophet, divine creator of the universe) wanting to dictate as to which teacher or educator should be fired or hired.

I have no idea why this man and those who think like him didn't just stay in Somalia and worked with OTHER MUSLIMS, majority of the country, and not move to America, a country that has DIFFERENT VALUES, DIFFERENT NOTION AND UNDERSTANDING when it comes to education, freedom of speech and press, the constitution and its clear annunciation on the separation of church and state, etc.

Even as an immigrant, I am starting to have intolerance for other immigrants who come here, with the host country welcoming and helping out, and THEN make demands that they do things, including the CHANGING OF THE LAW, to fit the newly immigrant's wishes and wants, something EVEN THEY DIDN'T GET IN THEIR ORIGINAL country.... indeed, wasn't that disagreement, in some serious manner, that got them to get the hell out of their original country IN THE FIRST FUCKIN' PLACE?

If your original ideas, people, superstitious beliefs, and laws were so great, AGAIN, why come to America or France or Britain or Canada or Germany or Australia or Sweden or Norway?

[Her Lao]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/burned-alive-isis-video-purports-show-murder-jordanian-pilot-n299361

http://news.yahoo.com/abbas-orders-probe-west-bank-mohammed-cartoon-165315584.html

http://news.yahoo.com/iraqi-libraries-ransacked-islamic-state-group-mosul-070110723.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/03/isis-video-jordanian-hostage-burdning-death-muadh-al-kasabeh

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/30/saudi-arabia-postpones-flogging-raef-badawi

A loud-and-clear message from THE RELIGION OF PEACE (pieces, they really mean).

But, of course, we know SMART PEOPLE like Pizone and all these nice Islamists and Muslims... they love these actions a lot, since these SMART and CORRECT LEADERSHIP-BASED actions, thoughts, and laws only make their societies the advanced, technological, egalitarian and justice-oriented that they are.... which are the envy of all other people and nations, all wishing they too could be exactly like these smart Muslim societies, as well as, other societies run by CORRECT LEADERS and smart& correct leadership who always rule wisely, fairy, and democratically, with all kinds of smart people who know how to use freedom of speech smartly and correctly, benefiting all in societies who are also smart and who think of only correct thoughts like them!

[CASALAO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMJcndnprM0

the savagery and barbarism of ISIS have no bounds. they killed people in firing squads. they sold young women into slavery. they cut throats of westerners and japanese. and now they burned this jordanian alive.

it looks like they do this in the name of islam. one can argue that islam is not a violent religion but facts proved otherwise.

of all the fucking religions in the world today that people believe and sometimes fanatically believe, islam and christianity have to be the two most violent religions.

is there a real peaceful religion without tainted past? i doubt it.

[Her Lao]

+++++++++++++++++

Indeed, Christianity and Islam, founded around 100-200AD and 600-700AD, respectively, BOTH going back to Abraham, an immigrant, ironically, from southern Iraq (this was real history, not Bible or Quranic nonsense), who moved to the area around present day Lebanon, I think...

And the FLOODS and other fairy tale nonsense that had been CAREFULLY POLISHED by inventive, creative, fictional writers and WEAVED into the various old testament/Jewish/Hebrew writings, which came to serve as the foundation for the various Christian biblical underpinning... all were derived from the stories of Abraham and his southern Iraqi ancestors various creation stories of Babylon, Garden of Eve, etc.

Anyway, point is, these two ABRAHAMIC superstitions have seen probably the greatest human persecutions under their reign from shortly after their founding to the present, with Christianity, being around 400-500 years older, having only stopped their public torture, killing, stoning, and burning towards the end of the 1600s.

Remember the infamous Spaniard and Portuguese and other European INQUISITIONS when tens of thousands of Jews and other racial and/or religious minorities as well as atheists and pagans were burnt alive in public squares, forcibly (through torture) to convert, or killed as they're being driven off their homes and countries, in the 1400 and 1500s?

Yeah, Christians, like Muslims, also have SELECTIVE memories! But Christianity and Christians ABSOLUTE BARBARITY lasted much longer than Islam and Muslim's barbarity have, so far.

Remember that the first known woman mathematician and genius, Hypatia, was the first well known victim of Christians public stoning, in early 400AD, bringing a real end to Rome SECULAR and the official collapse of 476AD was just a formality?

Well, the burning to death of ANOTHER EDUCATOR, Giordano Bruno, in ROME, in 1600, was not the end of Christianity's barbarity, as I just said. That 17th century was filled with human burning and torture, in public and in dark dungeons, with another genius, Galileo no less, BEING one of the most famous victims of the CHURCH and Christianity...

THE CRIME:

saying stuff --- about the CHURCH, Jesus and/or His Dad, God, which is also Jesus himself; about any Pope or Saint; about our earth and our sun being just two of endless earths and suns in the visible cosmos, NOT BEING AT THE CENTER OF THE COSMOS in a special way as the Bible and other FAIRY TALE BOOKS asserted, by primitive writers ---- they're not supposed to... stuff they're TOO STUPID, as our smart comrade Pizone reminds us, to know NOT to say...

[Her Lao]

A lot of times I just go on and on, truncating hundreds to thousands of years of information into what I am typing, in 3-5 improvisational paragraphs, here, so some people who are not into history think I am pulling things out of my ass, or something.

Anyway, Abraham --- the "founding father" of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam --- was originally from southern Iraq; and he moved to what would become present day Lebanon-Israel-Palestine region.

Iraq was and is really humanity first cradle of civilization, with the two most well known empires being the Sumerians and the Babylonians, southern and central Iraq, respectively. These were true and great human civilizations, as they invented reading, writing, and mathematics and built great cities that are still visible today, through mostly ruined and buried many feet under the ever-shifting desert of the Middle East.

These were among the VERY FIRST of human civilizations and they were the biggest and most successful; THEY WERE NOT JEWISH/JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY, OR ISLAMIC. They were intermixes between "semitic people" and non-semitic.

They were NOT imaginary fairy tale kingdoms and empires like "The Islamic Civilization" and "Christendom" that SECONDARY and THIRTIERY writings & stories found in the Jewish old testaments, biblical writing, and the newest Islamic/Quranic writing.

The non-Hebrew/Judaism, non-Christian, non-Islamic SUMERIANS and BABYLONIANS and their civilizations and activities and stories WERE THE BLUE PRINTS for these other derivative writings and stories were BASED ON, as, again, found in Hebrew old testaments, Christianity biblical, and Islamic holy Quranic writings.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam ---- adopted children of Sumerian and Babylonian people and their stories --- SIMPLY INSERTED THEMSELVES INTO THE THICK OF THINGS and fashioned old Sumerian and Babylonian tales, half truth and half false, and lots of imagination and ignorance.... into THEIR OWN "Abrahamic" (Noah, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, et al) FAIRY TALES when these latter three got encoded and systematized into what we would now called RELIGIONS... hundreds to thousands of years AFTER the passing of the Sumerians and Babylonians...

So, when I say the Hebrew/Jewish old writings, the Bible, the Quran, and their RESPECTIVE CENTER-OF-THE-UNIVERSE stories of creation WERE NOT ONLY FAIRY TALES BUT WERE ACTUALLY BASED ON OLDER FAIRY TALES... I am NOT pulling things out of my ass! I am merely talking about 6th grade world history.

Just because YOU or someone doesn't personally like MY NOT BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT or COURTEOUS to your FALSE sense of reality, your ignorance of REAL history in preference for IMAGINARY THINGS, EVENTS, AND PEOPLE.... as fabricated in BOTH Christianity and Islam.... it does not, therefore, mean that I am wrong.

"Mean," yes, if you still pout like little children, upon hearing a mean uncle telling you SANTA CLAUS is not real... but not wrong.... when the phrase FAIRY TALES is used to describe these RELIGIOUS nonsense of people, whether they are from the Middle East, India, Southeast Asian, Far East Asia, Africa, the Americas, what-not...

[CASALAO]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/islamic-states-killing-of-jordanian-pilot-sparks-mideast-outrage-1423066903

so now the muslim world is coming out against this barbarity. what about the folks who got beheaded?

[Her Lao]

On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 12:27:23 PM UTC-6, CASALAO wrote:
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/islamic-states-killing-of-jordanian-pilot-sparks-mideast-outrage-1423066903
>
> so now the muslim world is coming out against this barbarity. what about the folks who got beheaded?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

One of the better opinion-essays, by an Arab, on Arabic/Middle Eastern/Islam/Muslim issues... that I've come across in a long time... I am actually surprised this was allowed to be printed, since it is put out by an Arab newspapers published/broadcast in Saudi Arabia, I believe...

Perhaps the guy who opined this piece had influence, or is connected to the ruling clans of the Saud families... which have been accused by some Al Qaida in US prison right now AS HAVING FUNDED AL QAIDA operations, which included the 9/11...

"WHO BROUGHT THE ARABS TO THIS NADIR"

++++++

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/2014/09/27/Who-brought-the-Arabs-to-this-nadir-.html

[Her Lao]

"WHO BROUGHT THE ARABS TO THIS NADIR"
++++++
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/2014/09/27/Who-brought-the-Arabs-to-this-nadir-.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Another good essay on why MOST Arabs --- not unlike most Asians --- have this predictable authoritarian mentality, where one man, or one family, or one ideology is SEEN, PERCEIVED, or DECREED as THE CORRECT one (and criticism of it or challenging it IS SEEN AS VERY, VERY BAD to moral, ethics, politics, education, tradition, law and order, etc and such criticism or challenge MUST BE DEALT WITH RIGHT AWAY, with very harsh punishment, so as to prevent further and future criticism or challenge to THAT "CORRECT" idea, ideology, man, or family)...

+++

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/2/western-education-democratic-reforms-saudi-arabia.html