Kosher meat
Susan S
hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
Susan Silberstein
W. Baker
: Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
: hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
: who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
: Susan Silberstein
Wow! We are supposed to get a Trader Joe's in my neighborhood in
Manhattan. I would love that! There is KOL.com which sells grass-fed
kosher meat in large quantities(1/4 amnimal) at large prices.
Wendy Baker
sheldonlg
Wow! I had forgotten what a price differential there is between kosher
and not kosher. I get [Angus] ribeye steaks, not chuck roast, for
$5.99. A chuck roast is in the order of two dollar and something. OK,
these are not hormone and anti-biotic free, and have no hecksher, but
still.....over twice the price?
--
Shelly
Don Levey
regularly goes for $9-16/lb. If the TJs here comes out with $5.99/lb,
it's very attractive to me.
--
Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
(email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: Don't send mail to to sal...@the-leveys.us
GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc
Abe Kohen
"Don Levey" <Don_...@the-leveys.us> wrote in message
news:hnm6ou$g59$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> sheldonlg wrote:
>> Susan S wrote:
>>> Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
>>> hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
>>> who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
>>>
>>> Susan Silberstein
>>
>> Wow! I had forgotten what a price differential there is between kosher
>> and not kosher. I get [Angus] ribeye steaks, not chuck roast, for
>> $5.99. A chuck roast is in the order of two dollar and something. OK,
>> these are not hormone and anti-biotic free, and have no hecksher, but
>> still.....over twice the price?
>>
> Around here, I think, the non-kosher chuck can be $4.50/lb. Angus beef
> regularly goes for $9-16/lb. If the TJs here comes out with $5.99/lb,
> it's very attractive to me.
I haven't bought chuck in ages and cannot remember how to cook it.
Any suggestions?
Cook it like a brisket?
Best,
Abe
cindys
$5.99/pound chuck roast? That's so cheap. I pay $5.99/pound for ground
beef. The brisket costs $8.99/pound, which I guess is based on supply
and demand, since as far as I'm concerned, they should turn it into
ground meat. I know we've talked about this before, but I will never
understand what is the Jewish obsession with wanting brisket when
there are other (better) cuts for less money.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> "Don Levey" <Don_S...@the-leveys.us> wrote in message
Arrgghhhh!!!! (my reaction to the mention of brisket).
Here's are two ways to cook any roast (even brisket):
Method One:
1. Put the roast in a pan which as been lined with aluminum foil
(enough to bring the edges over for a tight seal in Step 5). Put roast
in pan.
2. Rub roast all over with a generous amount of powdered onion soup
mix.
3. Open a can of Rokeach pareve mushroom soup and pour it on.
4. Dump on a carton of fresh mushrooms.
5. Seal the above in the aluminum foil envelope and cook at 350
degrees for several hours.
Method Two:
1. Put the roast in a pan which as been lined with aluminum foil
(enough to bring the edges over for a tight seal in Step 5. Put roast
in pan.
2. Pour on a generous amount of dry red wine (marinate in red wine a
few hours in advance for added tenderness).
3. Rub roast all over with a generous amount of powdered onion soup
mix.
4. Dump on a carton of fresh mushrooms.
5. Seal the above in the aluminum foil envelope and cook at 350
degrees for several hours.
Happy eating! :-)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Steve Goldfarb
>Arrgghhhh!!!! (my reaction to the mention of brisket).
>Here's are two ways to cook any roast (even brisket):
Those will work, I'd keep an eye on the salt content in the onion soup and
mushroom soup, though.
Alton Brown has what looks like a delicious recipe for chuck roast on food
network:
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pot-roast-recipe/index.html
The essential cooking method is the same as what you've outlined, a sort
of braise, but he uses kosher salt & cumin rather than onion soup powder,
and adds chopped onion, garlic, tomato juice, balsamic vinegar, cocktail
olives, and raisins.
He cooks at a lower temperature, as well - 190-200 degrees for 3 to 3 1/2
hours (2 pound roast). Oh, and he browns the meat first, probably
optional.
Sounds awesome...
Using fresh veggies is always nice, though - onions, garlic, and carrots
are pretty traditional.
--s
--
cindys
> In <71c0296a-9211-4db2-9a2b-3d14f9cb5...@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> >Arrgghhhh!!!! (my reaction to the mention of brisket).
> >Here's are two ways to cook any roast (even brisket):
>
> Those will work, I'd keep an eye on the salt content in the onion soup and
> mushroom soup, though.
>
> Alton Brown has what looks like a delicious recipe for chuck roast on food
>
> The essential cooking method is the same as what you've outlined, a sort
> of braise, but he uses kosher salt & cumin rather than onion soup powder,
> and adds chopped onion, garlic, tomato juice, balsamic vinegar, cocktail
> olives, and raisins.
>
> He cooks at a lower temperature, as well - 190-200 degrees for 3 to 3 1/2
> hours (2 pound roast). Oh, and he browns the meat first, probably
> optional.
>
> Sounds awesome...
Yes, it does, but it's way too much work.....(and good luck finding
hechshered tomato juice, at least in my neighborhood, but I'm sure
plain tomato sauce can be substituted).
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
BTW, add a little lemon to the above recipe, use chicken instead of
beef, and you more or less have the Sephardic chicken recipe I often
make from one of Joan Nathan's cookbooks. It is really good. Serve
with couscous.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Mar-2010, cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> > Wow! I had forgotten what a price differential there is between kosher
> > and not kosher. I get [Angus] ribeye steaks, not chuck roast, for
> > $5.99. A chuck roast is in the order of two dollar and something. OK,
> > these are not hormone and anti-biotic free, and have no hecksher, but
> > still.....over twice the price?
> ------
> $5.99/pound chuck roast? That's so cheap. I pay $5.99/pound for ground
> beef. The brisket costs $8.99/pound, which I guess is based on supply
> and demand, since as far as I'm concerned, they should turn it into
> ground meat
That's odd - our ground beef is almost half that,
but the brisket nearly twice.
Are you talking about first cut or 2nd cut?
>. I know we've talked about this before, but I will never
> understand what is the Jewish obsession with wanting brisket when
> there are other (better) cuts for less money.
Maybe it's the fact that our mommies always
cooked them so deliciously....?
Susan
Harry Weiss
> Susan Silberstein
The red meat at Trader Joes under their own label is Hebrew National and
under the Triangle K.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
W. Baker
: "Don Levey" <Don_...@the-leveys.us> wrote in message
: Any suggestions?
: Best,
: Abe
Pot roast. Wet, covered on stovetop or in oven and long.
Wendy Baker
W. Baker
: On Mar 15, 7:18?pm, "Steve Goldfarb" <s...@panix.com> wrote:
: > In <71c0296a-9211-4db2-9a2b-3d14f9cb5...@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
: >
: > >Here's are two ways to cook any roast (even brisket):
: >
: > Those will work, I'd keep an eye on the salt content in the onion soup and
: > mushroom soup, though.
: >
: > Alton Brown has what looks like a delicious recipe for chuck roast on food
: > network:http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pot-roast-recipe/index...
: >
: > The essential cooking method is the same as what you've outlined, a sort
: > of braise, but he uses kosher salt & cumin rather than onion soup powder,
: > and adds chopped onion, garlic, tomato juice, balsamic vinegar, cocktail
: > olives, and raisins.
: >
: > He cooks at a lower temperature, as well - 190-200 degrees for 3 to 3 1/2
: > hours (2 pound roast). Oh, and he browns the meat first, probably
: > optional.
: >
: > Sounds awesome...
: -----
: Yes, it does, but it's way too much work.....(and good luck finding
: hechshered tomato juice, at least in my neighborhood, but I'm sure
: plain tomato sauce can be substituted).
: Best regards,
: ---Cindy S.
: >
: > Using fresh veggies is always nice, though - onions, garlic, and carrots
: > are pretty traditional.
: >
: > --s
: > --
You can make toamto juice quite easily by taking a can of tmato paste and
adding three cans of water and mixing well(o rstick itin the food
processor to mix. Add salt to taste. i use that in my gazpachco which I
try to make low salt.
Wendy Baker
Harry Weiss
> On Mar 15, 5:47?pm, sheldonlg <sheldo...@giganews.com> wrote:
> > Susan S wrote:
> > > Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
> > > hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
> > > who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
> >
> > > Susan Silberstein
> >
> > and not kosher. ?I get [Angus] ribeye steaks, not chuck roast, for
> > $5.99. A chuck roast is in the order of two dollar and something. ?OK,
> > these are not hormone and anti-biotic free, and have no hecksher, but
> > still.....over twice the price?
> ------
> $5.99/pound chuck roast? That's so cheap. I pay $5.99/pound for ground
> beef. The brisket costs $8.99/pound, which I guess is based on supply
> and demand, since as far as I'm concerned, they should turn it into
> ground meat. I know we've talked about this before, but I will never
> understand what is the Jewish obsession with wanting brisket when
> there are other (better) cuts for less money.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
Some of the best deals I find are at Golden West on line
cindys
> On 15-Mar-2010, cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > > Wow! I had forgotten what a price differential there is between kosher
> > > and not kosher. I get [Angus] ribeye steaks, not chuck roast, for
> > > $5.99. A chuck roast is in the order of two dollar and something. OK,
> > > these are not hormone and anti-biotic free, and have no hecksher, but
> > > still.....over twice the price?
> > ------
> > $5.99/pound chuck roast? That's so cheap. I pay $5.99/pound for ground
> > beef. The brisket costs $8.99/pound, which I guess is based on supply
> > and demand, since as far as I'm concerned, they should turn it into
> > ground meat
>
> That's odd - our ground beef is almost half that,
> but the brisket nearly twice.
> Are you talking about first cut or 2nd cut?
I'm not sure because the sign just says "brisket," (I think). The next
time I'm in the butcher, I'll ask. When I have seen it in the case, it
looks like what my mother used to call "single breast." As I said, I
never buy it.
>
> >. I know we've talked about this before, but I will never
> > understand what is the Jewish obsession with wanting brisket when
> > there are other (better) cuts for less money.
>
> Maybe it's the fact that our mommies always
> cooked them so deliciously....?
It wasn't until I was an adult that I discovered that it was desirable
to have a roast that was "pink in the middle." Every brisket my mother
ever cooked was well done and dry. I suspect the reason a lot of
Jewish people are always asking for brisket is because they are not
familiar with other cuts of meat.
Whenever I'm at the butcher, and I ask for the "French roast" or the
"rib end," invariably the (middle-aged female) customer standing next
to me will ask me, "What's that?" On other occasions, I have seen
customers point to one of the various "alien" roasts in the case and
ask "What's that?" (Fer cryin' out loud, it's not like there's such a
vast array of kosher cuts to choose from!)
Sometimes, the butcher will succeed in convincing someone to try a cut
other than brisket and invariably the person gets all nervous, and his/
her eyes start to glaze over, and then s/he asks "How do I cook
it?" (Well, now, it would take a real rocket scientist to figure that
one out. How about sprinkling on some seasonings, adding a little
water and a few vegetables, and putting it in the oven at 350 degrees?
What an idea! Who would have guessed?) Sorry, couldn't resist.
Well, that's my rant for the evening! ;-) Back to work...
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
snip
> You can make toamto juice quite easily by taking a can of tmato paste and
> adding three cans of water and mixing well(o rstick itin the food
> processor to mix. Add salt to taste. i use that in my gazpachco which I
> try to make low salt.
>
> Wendy Baker
The food processor ??? If I used a food processor, then I would have
to wash it afterward, right? Nay, nay...sounds like a lot of work to
me :-0
(I would just use a small can of plain tomato sauce, which is thin and
runny, albeit not quite as thin as tomato juice, but it works. There
too, you can water it down further if you want).
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
maxine in ri
> $5.99/pound chuck roast? That's so cheap. I pay $5.99/pound for ground
> beef. The brisket costs $8.99/pound, which I guess is based on supply
> and demand, since as far as I'm concerned, they should turn it into
> ground meat. I know we've talked about this before, but I will never
> understand what is the Jewish obsession with wanting brisket when
> there are other (better) cuts for less money.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
Brisket survives and thrives on long, slow cooking, which makes it a
good Sabbath and chag food.
maxine in ri
mm
Wendy, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you but isn't that the
way to get gooey gummy fat?
After both my brother and I complained for a few years, my mother
stopped making it that way. Yes, I know, each to his own taste...
--
Meir
"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
Dvora
Re: Kosher meat
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 10:07pm
(EDT+4) From: abek...@gmail.com (Abe Kohen)
YES -- YOU CN COK IT LIKE A BRISKET -- IT IS REALL GOODIN CHOLENT ALSO
-- USULLY I CUBE IT AN ALL DAY COOK IT IN A CROCK POT - WITH POTATOES
AND VEGGIS - MAKES A GOOD STEW---- I ALSO USE IT FOR SOUP ---BU THAN IT
TASTES BETER IF YO ADD BEEF BONES --
-
MAKING MYSELF HUNGRY --- ENJOY YOURS --
I wish you safety -- good health -- and freinds and family to love and
support you -
Shalom From Dvora --
Dvora
Re: Kosher meat
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 4:08am
(EDT+4) From: wee...@gmail.com (maxine in ri)
$5.99/pound chuck roast? That's so cheap. I pay $5.99/pound for ground
beef. The brisket costs $8.99/pound, which I guess is based on supply
and demand, since as far as I'm concerned, they should turn it into
ground meat. I know we've talked about this before, but I will never
understand what is the Jewish obsession with wanting brisket when there
are other (better) cuts for less money. Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Brisket survives and thrives on long, slow cooking, which makes it a
good Sabbath and chag food.
maxine in ri
THANKS FO DEFNDNG BRISKET MAXINE --- LOVEIT SO ---
HAVE NEVER MADE I IN FLOIA BEAUSE HERE THY ONLY SELL THE VRY FLAT PART
-- AND IT IS VER SMALL--
ALL THE YRS IN OHIO IT WAS EASY TO GET AND I MADE IT FOR EVERY HOLIDA
AND IN BETWEE -
--
HRE MY STAPLE HOLIDAY FOOD IS TUKEY BREAST -- OR WHOLE --
-----
Steve Goldfarb
>>
>> Sounds awesome...
>-----
>Yes, it does, but it's way too much work.....(and good luck finding
>hechshered tomato juice, at least in my neighborhood, but I'm sure
>plain tomato sauce can be substituted).
Too much work to chop an onion? Cindy, now we've got a real religious war!
:-) Seriously though for me, if I've got 3 hours to do a roast in the
first place, then chopping up a couple vegetables isn't a big deal.
--s
--
Steve Goldfarb
>The food processor ??? If I used a food processor, then I would have
>to wash it afterward, right? Nay, nay...sounds like a lot of work to
>me :-0
>(I would just use a small can of plain tomato sauce, which is thin and
>runny, albeit not quite as thin as tomato juice, but it works. There
>too, you can water it down further if you want).
Or, if they're reasonably priced, chop up some fresh tomatoes and just
throw them in.
If they're not reasonably priced, never mind. I've heard actual Italian
chefs - I think it was Mario Batali - say that he prefers to use canned
tomatoes most of the time because they're of a much higher quality than
the reddish chunks of plastic you get at the supermarket most of the year.
Of course he uses the real San Marzano tomatoes from Italy, don't know if
you can get those with a hechsher or not.
--s
--
sheldonlg
There is a great little device that I use. It is like a cylindrical
tube. You put the bottom over the onion (cut up in chunks), and slam
down a few times on the top a few times. The innards depress and rotate
and there is a blade that does the chopping. Very quick. Very easy.
Makes nice diced onions. The more times the hit down on the top, the
finer the result. All in all, a fifteen second operation.
--
Shelly
Steve Goldfarb
>There is a great little device that I use. It is like a cylindrical
>tube. You put the bottom over the onion (cut up in chunks), and slam
>down a few times on the top a few times. The innards depress and rotate
>and there is a blade that does the chopping. Very quick. Very easy.
>Makes nice diced onions. The more times the hit down on the top, the
>finer the result. All in all, a fifteen second operation.
I've seen those, they seem handy. Of course, something else to clean :-)
But I can chop and onion with a knife in just a minute or so, it's pretty
easy, and then you can control whether you get a fine dice or big chunks.
I use the method where you cut it in half lengthwise (bisect the stem and
pointy bit at the other end) chop off the pointy bit, peel back the skin,
make series of lengthwise cuts almost but not quite to the root (width of
cuts determines size of chop) then cross-cut to complete the chop.
Easy-peasy. If you're going to throw it into a roast you want a bigger
chop anyway, so it's literally just maybe 4 lengthwise cuts and 4
cross-cuts and you're done.
--s
--
W. Baker
: On Mar 15, 10:55?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
: snip
: > You can make toamto juice quite easily by taking a can of tmato paste and
: > adding three cans of water and mixing well(o rstick itin the food
: > try to make low salt.
: >
: > Wendy Baker
: ------
: The food processor ??? If I used a food processor, then I would have
: to wash it afterward, right? Nay, nay...sounds like a lot of work to
: me :-0
: (I would just use a small can of plain tomato sauce, which is thin and
: runny, albeit not quite as thin as tomato juice, but it works. There
: too, you can water it down further if you want).
: Best regards,
: ---Cindy S.
You can jusst stir it vigorously or use an old fashioned eggbeaer which is
simpler to wash. I use the food processor when I make gazpaco for the
main part of the chopping up vegetables so it is already dirty by tim eI
make the tomato juice.
Wendy
W. Baker
: On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 02:51:38 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker"
: <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
: Meir
That's the basic principle of making pot roast as opposed to roast beef
which is dry roasted(uncovered) in the oven. For pot roast you do have to
use flavorful stuff in the pan like onions, tomatos, wine, herbs,
freshly ground black pepper,etc or
you get kind of gray dull food like school pot roast:-)
You shuld taste my caramelized brisket recipe which cn also be made with
top of the rib. It is an old family one and is availible on the archives
of jewish-food archives at www.jewishfood-list.com
Wendy
cindys
> In <68e1b357-dccf-4ac1-a28f-b76a9735b...@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
>
>
> >> Sounds awesome...
> >-----
> >Yes, it does, but it's way too much work.....(and good luck finding
> >hechshered tomato juice, at least in my neighborhood, but I'm sure
> >plain tomato sauce can be substituted).
>
> Too much work to chop an onion? Cindy, now we've got a real religious war!
> :-) Seriously though for me, if I've got 3 hours to do a roast in the
> first place, then chopping up a couple vegetables isn't a big deal.
It's mostly the *browning* that's a lot of work. The meat has to be
watched while it's browning, and then, there is a greasy pan to wash.
That having been said:
I always/never have three hours to do a roast. Meaning: I work from
home. So, cooking time does not equal time away from work for me, as
food can cook while I work. But preparation (like chopping vegetables
and browning) does require my actual participation. Chopping one onion
isn't so time consuming, but chopping a lot of vegetables is. The last
time we had dinner guests (a few weeks ago), one of the side dishes I
made was a chopped and roasted vegetable mixture. One of the guests
commented that it must have taken me a long time to chop so many
vegetables. In the past, another guest commented that I must have put
a lot of work into my soup because there were so many chopped
vegetables in there. Don't underestimate the amount of time it takes
to chop vegetables.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> : On Mar 15, 10:55?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
> : snip
> : > You can make toamto juice quite easily by taking a can of tmato paste and
> : > adding three cans of water and mixing well(o rstick itin the food
> : > processor to mix. ?Add salt to taste. ?i use that in my gazpachco which I
> : > try to make low salt.
> : >
> : > Wendy Baker
> : ------
> : The food processor ??? If I used a food processor, then I would have
> : to wash it afterward, right? Nay, nay...sounds like a lot of work to
> : me :-0
>
> : (I would just use a small can of plain tomato sauce, which is thin and
> : runny, albeit not quite as thin as tomato juice, but it works. There
> : too, you can water it down further if you want).
> : Best regards,
> : ---Cindy S.
>
> simpler to wash.
-----
A spoon is even simpler to wash ;-)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
> I use the food processor when I make gazpaco for the
Steve Goldfarb
>It's mostly the *browning* that's a lot of work. The meat has to be
>watched while it's browning, and then, there is a greasy pan to wash.
>That having been said:
It's definitely work, I'll give you that - not necessarily "a lot" of
work, though, especially if you brown in the same pan you intend to
braise, but it's work that's true.
>I always/never have three hours to do a roast. Meaning: I work from
>home. So, cooking time does not equal time away from work for me, as
>food can cook while I work. But preparation (like chopping vegetables
>and browning) does require my actual participation. Chopping one onion
>isn't so time consuming, but chopping a lot of vegetables is. The last
>time we had dinner guests (a few weeks ago), one of the side dishes I
>made was a chopped and roasted vegetable mixture. One of the guests
>commented that it must have taken me a long time to chop so many
>vegetables. In the past, another guest commented that I must have put
>a lot of work into my soup because there were so many chopped
>vegetables in there. Don't underestimate the amount of time it takes
>to chop vegetables.
I guess... depends on the vegetables and the quantities, I suppose. For
me, if I'm scheduling a dinner with guests, I'd also schedule the hour or
two needed for prep - if I'm getting home at 7, then I'm not having guests
at 7:30 unless we're having take-out or something. But you're right, with
more guests it does seem like the work increases exponentially, and I
understand that if you're talking about Shabbos guests, then it's not
really the same deal.
Can you get frozen chopped vegetables with a hechscher? Some of them are
quite good, especially in the winter when the quality of the fresh stuff
is questionable anyway.
--s
--
cindys
> In <bfa5b330-1c9e-4214-93f7-18978e753...@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> >It's mostly the *browning* that's a lot of work. The meat has to be
> >watched while it's browning, and then, there is a greasy pan to wash.
> >That having been said:
>
> It's definitely work, I'll give you that - not necessarily "a lot" of
> work, though, especially if you brown in the same pan you intend to
> braise, but it's work that's true.
I don't brown or braise. I just roast.
>
> >I always/never have three hours to do a roast. Meaning: I work from
> >home. So, cooking time does not equal time away from work for me, as
> >food can cook while I work. But preparation (like chopping vegetables
> >and browning) does require my actual participation. Chopping one onion
> >isn't so time consuming, but chopping a lot of vegetables is. The last
> >time we had dinner guests (a few weeks ago), one of the side dishes I
> >made was a chopped and roasted vegetable mixture. One of the guests
> >commented that it must have taken me a long time to chop so many
> >vegetables. In the past, another guest commented that I must have put
> >a lot of work into my soup because there were so many chopped
> >vegetables in there. Don't underestimate the amount of time it takes
> >to chop vegetables.
>
> I guess... depends on the vegetables and the quantities, I suppose. For
> me, if I'm scheduling a dinner with guests, I'd also schedule the hour or
> two needed for prep - if I'm getting home at 7, then I'm not having guests
> at 7:30 unless we're having take-out or something. But you're right, with
> more guests it does seem like the work increases exponentially, and I
> understand that if you're talking about Shabbos guests, then it's not
> really the same deal.
Yes. You would be amazed at how many hours I work, and since I am self-
employed, time = money. When I invite shabbos guests (which I do a lot
less often than I used to), every hour spent in prep translates to
lost wages. I would never even think of inviting guests for any time
other than shabbos (due to time constraints). If we had the option of
kosher takeout (other than pizza) in my city, that would be different,
but we don't. If the time when I'm not working is spent actually
socializing, then I consider my time well spent, but I don't want to
take time off from work to chop vegetables and then more time off work
to socialize. On shabbos, the social time is a freebie since I can't
work anyway.
>
> Can you get frozen chopped vegetables with a hechscher?
To the best of my knowledge, frozen vegetables don't require a
hechsher (assuming there is nothing in the bag other than the
vegetables). Of course, the "froomies" :-) might disagree, and I see
bags of frozen broccoli florets for sale (with a hechsher) at the
local kosher butcher for about $5/bag!
For broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, and other vegetables which are
considered "buggy," most rabbis I know say any brand of frozen is okay
as long as the vegetables are frozen and chopped (fresh would be a
problem) because the freezing and thawing process causes any bugs to
fall apart. The halachic problem is with eating whole bugs. Parts of
bugs are apparently okay. There is at least one well-respected rabbi
who says that even whole frozen vegetables are okay, i.e., they don't
have to be chopped. For myself, I'm okay with any frozen vegetable. If
I'm having guests, I'm stricter about what I serve to them.
>Some of them are
> quite good, especially in the winter when the quality of the fresh stuff
> is questionable anyway.
"The experts" consider frozen vegetables to be superior to fresh
because they are frozen at the height of their perfection (the
vegetables that is), and they cost a lot less money.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
>
> --s
> --
Steve Goldfarb
>> It's definitely work, I'll give you that - not necessarily "a lot" of
>> work, though, especially if you brown in the same pan you intend to
>> braise, but it's work that's true.
>I don't brown or braise. I just roast.
If you added red wine, then I believe technically you're braising.
Roasting == baking == dry heat, i.e., in an oven.
>Yes. You would be amazed at how many hours I work, and since I am self-
>employed, time =3D money. When I invite shabbos guests (which I do a lot
>less often than I used to), every hour spent in prep translates to
>lost wages. I would never even think of inviting guests for any time
>other than shabbos (due to time constraints). If we had the option of
>kosher takeout (other than pizza) in my city, that would be different,
>but we don't. If the time when I'm not working is spent actually
>socializing, then I consider my time well spent, but I don't want to
>take time off from work to chop vegetables and then more time off work
>to socialize. On shabbos, the social time is a freebie since I can't
>work anyway.
I understand - I work long hours myself.
>>
>> Can you get frozen chopped vegetables with a hechscher?
>To the best of my knowledge, frozen vegetables don't require a
>hechsher (assuming there is nothing in the bag other than the
>vegetables). Of course, the "froomies" :-) might disagree, and I see
>bags of frozen broccoli florets for sale (with a hechsher) at the
>local kosher butcher for about $5/bag!
In that case, Trader Joes (if you have one) has some nice bagged mixes, as
does Costco and BJs actually. Couldn't be easier to cook with, no time at
all.
>"The experts" consider frozen vegetables to be superior to fresh
>because they are frozen at the height of their perfection (the
>vegetables that is), and they cost a lot less money.
Yep, for most veggies I find that to be the case, especially your legumes
like peas, green beans, etc. For onions and red peppers I prefer fresh,
but frozen's available there too.
--s
--
cindys
> In <ad98cee3-cdef-4285-b92f-61df456ba...@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> >> It's definitely work, I'll give you that - not necessarily "a lot" of
> >> work, though, especially if you brown in the same pan you intend to
> >> braise, but it's work that's true.
> >I don't brown or braise. I just roast.
>
> If you added red wine, then I believe technically you're braising.
> Roasting == baking == dry heat, i.e., in an oven.
Oh......Then, I guess I braise all the time.
>
> >Yes. You would be amazed at how many hours I work, and since I am self-
> >employed, time =3D money. When I invite shabbos guests (which I do a lot
> >less often than I used to), every hour spent in prep translates to
> >lost wages. I would never even think of inviting guests for any time
> >other than shabbos (due to time constraints). If we had the option of
> >kosher takeout (other than pizza) in my city, that would be different,
> >but we don't. If the time when I'm not working is spent actually
> >socializing, then I consider my time well spent, but I don't want to
> >take time off from work to chop vegetables and then more time off work
> >to socialize. On shabbos, the social time is a freebie since I can't
> >work anyway.
>
> I understand - I work long hours myself.
>
>
>
> >> Can you get frozen chopped vegetables with a hechscher?
> >To the best of my knowledge, frozen vegetables don't require a
> >hechsher (assuming there is nothing in the bag other than the
> >vegetables). Of course, the "froomies" :-) might disagree, and I see
> >bags of frozen broccoli florets for sale (with a hechsher) at the
> >local kosher butcher for about $5/bag!
>
> In that case, Trader Joes (if you have one) has some nice bagged mixes, as
> does Costco and BJs actually. Couldn't be easier to cook with, no time at
> all.
We have *Wegmans*! We don't have a Costco. We do have a BJs, but it's
a shlep, and I never go there due to lack of time. Wegmans is around
the corner, and they have everything I need in one location. I'm
pretty sure I actually save money by not going to BJs (membership fee
+ time + gas + wear and tear on car + buying large quantities of
things I don't need and don't have anywhere to store more than offsets
any money I would save over shopping at Wegmans)
>
> >"The experts" consider frozen vegetables to be superior to fresh
> >because they are frozen at the height of their perfection (the
> >vegetables that is), and they cost a lot less money.
>
> Yep, for most veggies I find that to be the case, especially your legumes
> like peas, green beans, etc. For onions and red peppers I prefer fresh,
> but frozen's available there too.
Agreed. I couldn't imagine buying frozen onions, but I buy bags of
mixed vegetables all the time. I especially like the oriental-type
mixtures (which include broccoli florets BTW ;-). I cut the chicken
breast into strips, dump in the bottle of Thai sweet and hot pepper
sauce (or whatever), dump in the bag of frozen oriental-style
vegetables, cover it, put it in the oven at 350 degrees, and an hour
later... Voila! An instant stir-fry (that is neither stirred nor
fried :-)
Steve Goldfarb
>We have *Wegmans*! We don't have a Costco. We do have a BJs, but it's
>a shlep, and I never go there due to lack of time. Wegmans is around
>the corner, and they have everything I need in one location. I'm
>pretty sure I actually save money by not going to BJs (membership fee
>+ time + gas + wear and tear on car + buying large quantities of
>things I don't need and don't have anywhere to store more than offsets
>any money I would save over shopping at Wegmans)
Don't think I've ever been to a Wegman's, but you may well be right. I
find if I do actually go to BJs I always end up spending at least $300 -
there's always something there that I think I need. Not sure about cost
savings, the stuff seems pretty cheap - but you do have to store it which
is often a pain.
I end up chasing all over town for stuff, it's a pain - I like Stew
Leonards (a small chain of originally dairy stores) for their meat (not
kosher, sorry) and produce, but you don't really want to buy paper towels
there, so that's a trip to Stop and Shop which has reasonably good stuff
but the meat, produce and fish don't compare to Stew's, and then Trader
Joes has lots of very reasonably priced specialty things that you can't
get anywhere else but you can't get everything you need there. So, it's a
pain.
Although when I lived in Brooklyn I'd get off the subway, then buy my fish
at the fish store, produce at the produce store, and meat at the butcher
store, and paper towels at the small, dirty, rip-off grocery store.
>Agreed. I couldn't imagine buying frozen onions, but I buy bags of
>mixed vegetables all the time. I especially like the oriental-type
>mixtures (which include broccoli florets BTW ;-). I cut the chicken
>breast into strips, dump in the bottle of Thai sweet and hot pepper
>sauce (or whatever), dump in the bag of frozen oriental-style
>vegetables, cover it, put it in the oven at 350 degrees, and an hour
>later... Voila! An instant stir-fry (that is neither stirred nor
>fried :-)
Sounds delicious. It really takes an hour to cook, though? That seems like
a long time. I generally do prefer to stir-fry my veggies, though, keeps
them a bit crisper. Or I throw everything on the grill. (or I would, if
it'd ever stop raining)
--s
--
W. Baker
when I make my brisket I do not brown it in a separae pan. I put the
meal, all seasoned(black peper, garlic, ) in a large roasting
pansurrounded by sliced onions, 3-4 fresh squashed tomatoes and a few bay
leave. I then cover it wih teh top of the rorastign pan and put it into a
500F oven. after about 115030 mins I turn the heat down without opening
the oven door or pan to 375-425 and et it cook for 3 hours. It makes its
own liquid as it cooks and it finished when most fof theliquid is gone adn
the met is tender. Gravy is simply water added to all the nice brown fond
in the bottom of the roasting pan boiling it whlie scraping all the stuff
off the pan. Tase and if it is too weak, let it boil down a bit.
Wendy
cindys
> In <5bdb59ec-510a-4463-9f48-56f77612e...@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> >We have *Wegmans*! We don't have a Costco. We do have a BJs, but it's
> >a shlep, and I never go there due to lack of time. Wegmans is around
> >the corner, and they have everything I need in one location. I'm
> >pretty sure I actually save money by not going to BJs (membership fee
> >+ time + gas + wear and tear on car + buying large quantities of
> >things I don't need and don't have anywhere to store more than offsets
> >any money I would save over shopping at Wegmans)
>
> Don't think I've ever been to a Wegman's, but you may well be right.
snip
---
Steve, if you have get a Wegmans, you will never shop anywhere else
again. They are ranked the #1 supermarket chain in the country, and
it's all about their customer service. Not only do they carry regular
groceries, and everything that Trader Joe's carries and much more, but
they have an in-store bakery which could probably rival the best
bakery you've ever been to, at least 50 specialty breads, cakes,
cookies, everything. They have cases and cases of meats and fish,
unbelievable. Cheeses, hundreds of kinds, imported. They have gourmet
prepared foods and ethnic takeout of every kind imaginable. They have
a tea shop. They have a gourmet restaurant which (looking at the menu)
could probably rival any gourmet restaurant in NYC. None of this is
kosher of course, but they have a huge kosher selection as well. But
that's only the tip of the iceberg.
When it rains, they have employees standing outside with umbrellas to
escort the customers to their cars. They have "Helping Hands," which
are people who roam around the parking lot to see if anyone needs help
loading his/her car. And many of these jobs are filled by people with
mental disabilities; Wegmans does this specifically to provide
disabled people with opportunities for employment, so it's a win-win.
On two occasions, I was buying large quantities of kosher cheese
(maybe the equivalent of $30 or $40 dollars' worth), and when I got up
the register, the price didn't scan and the UPC code didn't compute. I
commented to the cashier that I was glad nobody was behind me in line
because they would need to do a price check. A minute or so later,
someone did get in line behind me. The front end manager came over and
said, "I'm not going to make you and the person behind you wait, so
there is no charge for the cheese. Have a good day." (We must have
been waiting all of two minutes) Can you imagine? And then, and then,
he apologized for inconveniencing me!!! And this happened to me not
once, but twice!
One time, my cousin was shopping in bulk foods and he wanted some
nutritional information on a product that didn't have it. They took
down his phone number. The next day, someone phoned him with all the
nutritional information.
On another occasion, I was at the service desk. In front of me was an
elderly couple who had returned some soda bottles for the deposit but
had forgotten to take the slip out of the bottle return machine. The
clerk went over to the machine to see if the slip was still there. It
wasn't. She asked the couples how much the slip had been for. They
told her 80 cents. She just gave them the money out of the register. I
commented to her that that couple was now going to go into the store
and spend at least $100, and not only that, they were going to tell
all their friends how they had been treated at Wegmans.
One time, my friend found that Wegmans had delivered a very large gift
basket to her door, filled with fruit, gourmet chocolates, coffee,
etc. But the card didn't say who it was from. It only said that the
basket had come from Wegmans. So, she phoned Wegmans to tell them that
she hadn't ordered a gift basket and that they had delivered the
basket to her by mistake. They told her it was no mistake, that
periodically, they will randomly send gift baskets to some of their
customers; it was just their way of saying "Thank you for shopping at
Wegmans."
If there is an item you want, and they don't have it, they will do
anything to get it for you. I could just go on and on. And they treat
their employees really well too, and they have even won awards for the
way they treat their employees. I don't think I have ever encountered
a rude employee at Wegmans.
If there are ever more than two people in any checkout line, they
automatically open another register. On any given Sunday, they have at
least 30 cash registers in service.
And the prices at Wegmans are actually much lower than at the rival
supermarket which is a standard chain supermarket, nothing special,
and not customer service oriented at all, and the other supermarket
refuses to open more than a few registers at a time, no matter how
many people are in line.
People all over the country just can't wait for a Wegmans to open up
in their neighborhoods. And this year, our local Wegmans is even
offering full seder dinners for takeout, signed and double-wrapped,
under the supervision of an O rabbi.
I can guarantee there will never be a Trader Joe's in my area; Trader
Joe's could never compete with Wegmans.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Steve Goldfarb
>People all over the country just can't wait for a Wegmans to open up
>in their neighborhoods. And this year, our local Wegmans is even
>offering full seder dinners for takeout, signed and double-wrapped,
>under the supervision of an O rabbi.
>I can guarantee there will never be a Trader Joe's in my area; Trader
>Joe's could never compete with Wegmans.
Sounds awesome, I'm jealous. The grocery stores in my area are OK but not
great. Wish we had more competition. When I lived in suburban Detroit, we
had massive competition in terms of grocery stores, Farmer Jack's,
Kroger's, and I'm blanking out on the other one. Some of the stores were
spectacular. Here in the Northeast, not so much - although I hear there's
a Fairway coming to my part of the world, they have really nice stuff.
Trader Joe's doesn't really compete with grocery stores, though - they
target a different niche. So it's possible they could still compete. They
intentionally have a very limited selection in relatively small stores -
you can run in and out in 15 minutes and get this or that specialty item.
That's the problem with those megamarts- they're great when you're doing a
full shop, but kind of a drag when all you need is a quart of milk or a
nice dessert to bring to dinner.
--s
--
sheldonlg
I've heard nothing but raves about Wegmans. I went into one once in
central New Jersey. The store had everything, including a restaurant.
It was at least double the size of the largest supermarket I had ever
been in.
--
Shelly
cindys
> In <8a5d2836-ebcc-47bc-92c4-9fcc17d37...@i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> >People all over the country just can't wait for a Wegmans to open up
> >in their neighborhoods. And this year, our local Wegmans is even
> >offering full seder dinners for takeout, signed and double-wrapped,
> >under the supervision of an O rabbi.
> >I can guarantee there will never be a Trader Joe's in my area; Trader
> >Joe's could never compete with Wegmans.
>
> Sounds awesome, I'm jealous. The grocery stores in my area are OK but not
> great. Wish we had more competition. When I lived in suburban Detroit, we
> had massive competition in terms of grocery stores, Farmer Jack's,
> Kroger's, and I'm blanking out on the other one. Some of the stores were
> spectacular. Here in the Northeast, not so much - although I hear there's
> a Fairway coming to my part of the world, they have really nice stuff.
>
> Trader Joe's doesn't really compete with grocery stores, though - they
> target a different niche. So it's possible they could still compete.
I promise you, there is NOTHING Trader Joe's carries that Wegmans
doesn't. AIUI, Trader Joe's is a franchise. A person would have to be
a total fool to try to open up a Trader Joe's in my city. In a
different city, where there is maybe only one Wegmans, Trader Joe's
could certainly compete if it's located sufficiently far away from
Wegmans. I'm not sure where you live, Steve, and obviously I'm not
going to ask you publicly, but there are about half a dozen Wegmans'
stores in various locations in New Jersey.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
snip
>
> Trader Joe's doesn't really compete with grocery stores, though - snip
> you can run in and out in 15 minutes and get this or that specialty item.
> That's the problem with those megamarts- they're great when you're doing a
> full shop, but kind of a drag when all you need is a quart of milk or a
> nice dessert to bring to dinner.
You're right about that. It is a drag to go to the big Wegmans for a
quart of milk. Fortunately, I have a much smaller Wegmans down the
street from me, and I can run in there for a quart of milk, but
truthfully, I do most of my full shopping at the smaller Wegmans
anyway. Even in the small store, they pretty much carry everything I
want to buy. The kosher meat and cheese selection is more limited, but
I like to support the local kosher butcher shop anyway, so that's not
really a big deal (to me). Anything I can't find at the small Wegmans,
I can usually pick up at the kosher bakery or butcher. They are
currently in the process of expanding this little Wegmans to maybe
twice its current size, but it still won't be anything even close to
the mega Wegmans, which is fine by me. The mega-Wegmans isn't much
farther away from my house, and I can always go there if I need to.
Speaking of a quart of milk --- The mega-Wegmans features a small
refrigerator case right up front by the registers with quarts of milk,
eggs, and butter. This is for the convenience of someone who only
wants to buy a quart of milk but doesn't want to have to walk all the
way to the dairy department to get it. Unfortunately, there is no cure
for the long walk through the parking lot :-(
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Steve Goldfarb
>I promise you, there is NOTHING Trader Joe's carries that Wegmans
>doesn't. AIUI, Trader Joe's is a franchise. A person would have to be
>a total fool to try to open up a Trader Joe's in my city. In a
>different city, where there is maybe only one Wegmans, Trader Joe's
>could certainly compete if it's located sufficiently far away from
>Wegmans. I'm not sure where you live, Steve, and obviously I'm not
>going to ask you publicly, but there are about half a dozen Wegmans'
>stores in various locations in New Jersey.
Actually I'm sure that's not true - Trader Joe's sources and packages
their own stuff. So Wegmans might have equivalents, but it definitely
doesn't have the exact same stuff. (for all I know it has better stuff,
but it's still would be different) I don't think it's a franchise - as I
said it's filling a different niche, you could put a Trader Joes in the
same shopping center as a supermarket and I expect both would do fine.
Doesn't look like there's a Wegmans within 100 miles of where I live. Too
bad. :-(
--s
--
Steve Goldfarb
>Speaking of a quart of milk --- The mega-Wegmans features a small
>refrigerator case right up front by the registers with quarts of milk,
>eggs, and butter. This is for the convenience of someone who only
>wants to buy a quart of milk but doesn't want to have to walk all the
>way to the dairy department to get it. Unfortunately, there is no cure
>for the long walk through the parking lot :-(
Interesting - that's very user-friendly, but actually the very reason most
stores historically have placed the milk and eggs in the furthest corner
was precisely so that you'd have to walk through the entire store to get
them, and hopefully you'd be enticed into picking up something else on
your trek...
--s
--
W. Baker
: On Mar 16, 3:38?pm, "Steve Goldfarb" <s...@panix.com> wrote:
: > In <5bdb59ec-510a-4463-9f48-56f77612e...@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
: If there is an item you want, and they don't have it, they will do
: anything to get it for you. I could just go on and on. And they treat
: their employees really well too, and they have even won awards for the
: way they treat their employees. I don't think I have ever encountered
: a rude employee at Wegmans.
: If there are ever more than two people in any checkout line, they
: automatically open another register. On any given Sunday, they have at
: least 30 cash registers in service.
: And the prices at Wegmans are actually much lower than at the rival
: supermarket which is a standard chain supermarket, nothing special,
: and not customer service oriented at all, and the other supermarket
: refuses to open more than a few registers at a time, no matter how
: many people are in line.
: People all over the country just can't wait for a Wegmans to open up
: in their neighborhoods. And this year, our local Wegmans is even
: offering full seder dinners for takeout, signed and double-wrapped,
: under the supervision of an O rabbi.
: I can guarantee there will never be a Trader Joe's in my area; Trader
: Joe's could never compete with Wegmans.
: Best regards,
: ---Cindy S.
i snipped much of your posst as it was so long, but very nice to read. I
have heard of Wegmans and my son used to shop there when he was at
Cornell, so I have seen one. Unforutunatly, in NYC with small saces we
don't have nice big supermarakets like Wegmans. Most are small. We do
have Fairway near me which has lots of great stuff particularly produce
adn specialty products te do have some kosher meat and some wonderful
baked goods of their own as well as bakeries like Zomix, etc. In the
summer I am not far enough upstate to have a Wegmans near, but I wish I
did. Neither Kinston nor Oneonta have one and that would be about 50
miles away.
I had not realized that they had such plentiful kosher offerings which is
great for you.
Wendy
cindys
> In <7bf4f23a-d4c6-4209-a215-9627bd9ae...@l40g2000pro.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> >I promise you, there is NOTHING Trader Joe's carries that Wegmans
> >doesn't. AIUI, Trader Joe's is a franchise. A person would have to be
> >a total fool to try to open up a Trader Joe's in my city. In a
> >different city, where there is maybe only one Wegmans, Trader Joe's
> >could certainly compete if it's located sufficiently far away from
> >Wegmans. I'm not sure where you live, Steve, and obviously I'm not
> >going to ask you publicly, but there are about half a dozen Wegmans'
> >stores in various locations in New Jersey.
>
> Actually I'm sure that's not true - Trader Joe's sources and packages
> their own stuff. So Wegmans might have equivalents, but it definitely
> doesn't have the exact same stuff.
Agreed. Wegmans doesn't carry the Trader Joe's brand.
>(for all I know it has better stuff,
> but it's still would be different) I don't think it's a franchise
Yes it is. Do a google search. You'll see. I once looked into it. It
costs hundreds of thousands.
> as I
> said it's filling a different niche, you could put a Trader Joes in the
> same shopping center as a supermarket and I expect both would do fine.
It wouldn't do fine in a shopping center with a Wegmans, I promise
you. But at any rate, that would never happen as Wegmans always owns
the real estate/shopping center where its stores are located...
> Doesn't look like there's a Wegmans within 100 miles of where I live. Too
> bad. :-(
That is too bad, but on the basis of the way Wegmans is growing and
expanding, you never know....
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> great for you.
>
> Wendy
We do. Some of our friends just returned from visiting their daughter
in Baltimore, and they commented that we have access to just about
everything that Baltimore has. Similarly, when we shop at the kosher
supermarket in Chicago, I don't see anything on the shelves that we
don't have. Not all of the brands are necessarily the same, but I
generally don't find myself looking at items and saying "Wow! They
have kosher XYZ! I wish we had that."
At one point, Chicago had kosher jelly beans, and we didn't, but now
Jelly Belly and Just Born jelly beans are OU. One thing they have/had
in Chicago (which we don't have) was the kosher equivalent of Chef-Boy-
R-Dee canned spaghetti. When my sons were little and we visited
Chicago, they kept pestering me that they wanted to try it, so I gave
in. One bite was all it took. I wish I had a camera to record the
looks on their faces. I thought they were going to get sick. So, I
don't think we're missing anything there.
What I would like to have are kosher restaurants, but we just don't
have enough of a kosher-keeping population to support that. Every time
someone tries to open a kosher restaurant, it goes out of business.
The exception is the kosher pizza at Chabad or something like that.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
That's exactly right, but it certainly makes for good customer
relations. I would be surprised to find that anyone actually goes to
mega-Wegmans just for a quart of milk. Wegmans probably generates
millions of dollars in income every year, so if there actually is an
occasional customer who buys only milk, it's really no big deal to
Wegmans. Next time, the same guy will spend $200.
And they're marketing is unbelievable. Four times per year, they mail
out a magazine called _Le Menu_. The magazine features a bunch of
fancy dishes/recipes. You can either buy these dishes pre-made at
Wegmans (sold by the pound) and take them home and eat them. Or
Wegmans provides you with the recipe and the exact ingredients you
need to make the recipes and the instructions so you can make it
yourself. The recipe invariably features some of their expensive
ingredients like "Wegman's pumpkin oil" or something like that. Or
maybe, you want to make the maple-encrusted salmon on the cedar plank.
Well, conveniently, Wegman's sells those cedar planks. And they also
sell the special barbecue tools that you will need if you want to make
it on the grill. Do you like the way the dish is displayed in the
magazine? Do you like the special tablecloth, the charger, the china,
the crystal punch bowl? Well, guess what? All of those items are for
sale at Wegmans too.
And the magazine has interesting stories where they send their
employees to Basel, Switzerland to learn how Farmer Braun makes his
special Swiss cheese the same way his grandfather made it 100 years
ago, and you can buy some of Farmer Braun's special Swiss cheese in
the cheese dept at Wegmans. The marketing is absolutely incredible.
Wegmans also tries to be ethical. They introduced the reusable
shopping bags and save about a billion plastic bags every year. The
reusable bags cost 99 cents each. Wegman's has sold millions of those
reusable bags (and made quite a profit, no doubt).
One of their mottoes is "Strive for Five" (i.e. try to eat five cups
of fruit or vegetables every day for good health).
Another thing they do is lower prices on certain items. And they will
tell you so. They will tell you that last year, because of the dry
spell in California (for example), oranges cost $$, but this year,
California got more rain, so they are passing the savings on to you,
and this year, you only have to pay $.
The marketing dept is really topnotch.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
fla...@verizon.net
On 16-Mar-2010, cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> One thing they have/had
> in Chicago (which we don't have) was the kosher equivalent of Chef-Boy-
> R-Dee canned spaghetti. When my sons were little and we visited
> Chicago, they kept pestering me that they wanted to try it, so I gave
> in. One bite was all it took. I wish I had a camera to record the
> looks on their faces. I thought they were going to get sick. So, I
> don't think we're missing anything there.
FWIU from gentile friends, their disappointment was
not necessarily due to it's being a kosher brand...
Susan
Abe Kohen
"Harry Weiss" <hjw...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hnmnve$cor$1...@reader1.panix.com...
> Susan S <otoerem...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
>> hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
>> who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
>
>> Susan Silberstein
>
> under the Triangle K.
Is that a hechsher which most O trust?
Also why is Tablet-K not considered OK by most O?
Best,
Abe
Abe Kohen
"cindys" <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ad98cee3-cdef-4285...@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
"The experts" consider frozen vegetables to be superior to fresh
because they are frozen at the height of their perfection (the
vegetables that is), and they cost a lot less money.
-------------------------------
I've never found fozen vegetables which are (a) edible, and (b) have the
vitamin content of the fresh vegetables. So my brisket uses only fresh
vegetables (plus various dried spices).
Best,
Abe
Abe Kohen
"Steve Goldfarb" <s...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hnodl1$6el$1...@reader1.panix.com...
> In <ad98cee3-cdef-4285...@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
> cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
>>> It's definitely work, I'll give you that - not necessarily "a lot" of
>>> work, though, especially if you brown in the same pan you intend to
>>> braise, but it's work that's true.
>
>>I don't brown or braise. I just roast.
>
> If you added red wine, then I believe technically you're braising.
> Roasting == baking == dry heat, i.e., in an oven.
With the cost of good kosher wine (and I don't have any bad kosher wine), it
is a lot cheaper, and tastes no different to use beer instead.
Best,
Abe
Abe Kohen
"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hnp031$8lt$2...@reader1.panix.com...
> i snipped much of your posst as it was so long, but very nice to read. I
> have heard of Wegmans and my son used to shop there when he was at
> Cornell, so I have seen one. Unforutunatly, in NYC with small saces we
Yes, I too have helped a Cornell offspring shop at the Ithaca Wegman's. It
was indeed nice, but nowhere near the experience described by Cindy, as I
clearly remember running to my car in the rain, with no Wegman's personnel
carrying umbrellas. ;-)
Now that we have a Costco in Manhattan - with kosher supplies, I don't mind
shopping there, augmented by online orders and small local supermarkets.
FTR, Waldbaum (in the burbs) has free 5lb Israeli matzot with a $25
purchase.
Best,
Abe
cindys
> "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
How do you know they don't have the vitamin content of fresh
vegetables?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> "Harry Weiss" <hjwe...@panix.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hnmnve$cor$1...@reader1.panix.com...
>
> > Susan S <otoeremovet...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
> >> hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
> >> who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
>
> >> Susan Silberstein
>
> > The red meat at Trader Joes under their own label is Hebrew National and
> > under the Triangle K.
>
> Is that a hechsher which most O trust?
>
> Also why is Tablet-K not considered OK by most O?
I think you already know the answers to these questions. If anyone
else wants to know the answers, a private e-mail would be
appropriate.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
When I was growing up, my mother used to buy Franco American canned
spaghetti (it was "kosher" because she bought the variety without the
meatballs). OMG. It was so horrible.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
fla...@verizon.net
Harry Weiss
this is far more than the store Consumer reports has competing the most
with them in quality - Raleys.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
>
> "The experts" consider frozen vegetables to be superior to fresh
> because they are frozen at the height of their perfection (the
> vegetables that is), and they cost a lot less money.
It's a good thing you explained. I was _sure_ you meant
the "experts" are frozen at the height of their perfection!
--
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
Steve Goldfarb
>>(for all I know it has better stuff,
>> but it's still would be different) I don't think it's a franchise
>Yes it is. Do a google search. You'll see. I once looked into it. It
>costs hundreds of thousands.
I think you must be thinking of a different store. According to
traderjoes.com/action_issues.html#Franchise - "11. Do you guys franchise?
No. All our stores are company owned and operated."
>That is too bad, but on the basis of the way Wegmans is growing and
>expanding, you never know....
That would be great.
--s
--
cindys
> In <dc303af6-9aaf-41f2-b54a-85b574d7d...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> >>(for all I know it has better stuff,
> >> but it's still would be different) I don't think it's a franchise
> >Yes it is. Do a google search. You'll see. I once looked into it. It
> >costs hundreds of thousands.
>
> I think you must be thinking of a different store. According to
> traderjoes.com/action_issues.html#Franchise - "11. Do you guys franchise?
> No. All our stores are company owned and operated."
Okay. I stand corrected.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> > "The experts" consider frozen vegetables to be superior to fresh
> > because they are frozen at the height of their perfection (the
> > vegetables that is), and they cost a lot less money.
>
> It's a good thing you explained. I was _sure_ you meant
> the "experts" are frozen at the height of their perfection!
Which is why I clarified. If there's one thing that drives me nuts,
it's writing (or reading) an ambiguous sentence.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
snippage for brevity
> > People all over the country just can't wait for a Wegmans to open up
> > in their neighborhoods. And this year, our local Wegmans is even
> > offering full seder dinners for takeout, signed and double-wrapped,
> > under the supervision of an O rabbi.
> > I can guarantee there will never be a Trader Joe's in my area; Trader
> > Joe's could never compete with Wegmans.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.
>
> this is far more than the store Consumer reports has competing the most
> with them in quality - Raleys.
------
My synopsis of Wegmans is from years of personal experience and the
personal experiences of my friends and family. When Consumer Reports
reports on a product or service, they have different methodology. I
have never heard of Raleys.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
>
> this is far more than the store Consumer reports has competing the most
> with them in quality - Raleys.
Here are some more stories: On one occasion, the same cousin who
inquired about the nutritional ingredients in the bulk food had bought
some produce that was on sale, and when he looked at his receipt, he
thought he had been overcharged for the item, but he wasn't sure. So,
he went back to the produce department to check the price for himself,
and sure enough, he had been overcharged by $1. It so happened that
the store manager was standing there, and so, my cousin went over to
him and said, "You need to make a correction in your scanners. Here,
the price for the peaches (e.g.) is X, but at the register, I was
charged $1 more." The manager said "Thank you for bringing this to my
attention. Go to the Service Desk and they'll give you your dollar
back." Then, he paused, took a dollar out of his own wallet and gave
it my cousin saying, "Here, you take this. I don't want to
inconvenience you by making you wait at the service desk."
At the smaller Wegmans, they used to carry these low-carb (packaged)
pitas that I really liked. One day, I noticed they didn't carry them
anymore. So, I asked the bakery manager about them, and he said they
were generally not a good seller at the smaller Wegmans, and due to
lack of shelf space, they needed to be selective about what they
carried. He told me that I could still get them at mega-Wegmans. I
said, "Except that I shop here, and it's really inconvenient for me to
go to mega-Wegmans every week just because of this one item. If I am
willing to purchase a case of them, paid in advance, will you order
them for me?"
This is what he did: He ordered an entire case of the pita, did not
want/need the money in advance, and stored it in the freezer in the
bakery dept just for me with my name on it (because he didn't have
shelf space and it wasn't a good seller). He told me that every week
when I come to Wegmans, to go to the bakery dept and ask one of the
clerks to get me a package or two of my pitas out of the freezer. It
was unbelievable. We are not talking about mom-and-pop grocery here,
we are talking about a mega-corporation.
This is why Wegmans is so successful. Now, how many people have been
reading my stories? If Wegmans opens in new cities, how many people
who have read my stories will be eager to shop there and over the
years, ultimately spend hundreds and thousands of dollars at Wegmans?
So, they gave me $30 or $40 worth of free cheese, but how much
positive publicity did they get as a result? Wegmans has wonderful
products but the secret of their success is still their customer
service.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
W. Baker
: 500F oven. after about 115030 mins I turn the heat down without opening
: the oven door or pan to 375-425 and et it cook for 3 hours. It makes its
: Wendy
OOPS! That is 15-30 mins before I turn th eheat down. That 115,030 mins
would really dry it out and make it kind of crispy and nasty:-
Wendy
Blind Broccoli
Franco-American Spaghetti and cinnamon toast.
BB
Harry Weiss
Yes, except for a few big chains (and even there they often hae differnt
names) chains are local. There are no Wegmens in the West. Raley is
Sacrmaneto based and is in the Sacramento/San Joaquin Valley and SF Bay
area.
Harry Weiss
> : > In <68e1b357-dccf-4ac1-a28f-b76a9735b...@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : > >> Sounds awesome...
> : > >-----
> : > >Yes, it does, but it's way too much work.....(and good luck finding
> : > >hechshered tomato juice, at least in my neighborhood, but I'm sure
> : > >plain tomato sauce can be substituted).
> : >
> : > Too much work to chop an onion? Cindy, now we've got a real religious war!
> : > :-) Seriously though for me, if I've got 3 hours to do a roast in the
> : > first place, then chopping up a couple vegetables isn't a big deal.
> : ------
> : It's mostly the *browning* that's a lot of work. The meat has to be
> : watched while it's browning, and then, there is a greasy pan to wash.
> : That having been said:
> : I always/never have three hours to do a roast. Meaning: I work from
> : home. So, cooking time does not equal time away from work for me, as
> : food can cook while I work. But preparation (like chopping vegetables
> : and browning) does require my actual participation. Chopping one onion
> : isn't so time consuming, but chopping a lot of vegetables is. The last
> : time we had dinner guests (a few weeks ago), one of the side dishes I
> : made was a chopped and roasted vegetable mixture. One of the guests
> : commented that it must have taken me a long time to chop so many
> : vegetables. In the past, another guest commented that I must have put
> : a lot of work into my soup because there were so many chopped
> : vegetables in there. Don't underestimate the amount of time it takes
> : to chop vegetables.
> : Best regards,
> : ---Cindy S.
> when I make my brisket I do not brown it in a separae pan. I put the
> meal, all seasoned(black peper, garlic, ) in a large roasting
> pansurrounded by sliced onions, 3-4 fresh squashed tomatoes and a few bay
> leave. I then cover it wih teh top of the rorastign pan and put it into a
> 500F oven. after about 115030 mins I turn the heat down without opening
> the oven door or pan to 375-425 and et it cook for 3 hours. It makes its
> own liquid as it cooks and it finished when most fof theliquid is gone adn
> the met is tender. Gravy is simply water added to all the nice brown fond
> in the bottom of the roasting pan boiling it whlie scraping all the stuff
> off the pan. Tase and if it is too weak, let it boil down a bit.
> Wendy
this looks pretty easy. This will be the first year that we are home for
Pesach in a dozen year . It would be crazy to go back to Fl without my
mother alive, with my brother tied up all of chal Hamoed because of Tax
season and not be allowed to do much because of aveilus.
We have quite a few people over for both Sedarim. Many people who used to
come over years ago want to come over, Of course it won't be the same
without Karen.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
The problem with reading these interesting stories, is that they
make me jealous!
> On one occasion, the same cousin who
> inquired about the nutritional ingredients in the bulk food had bought
> some produce that was on sale, and when he looked at his receipt, he
> thought he had been overcharged for the item, but he wasn't sure. So,
> he went back to the produce department to check the price for himself,
> and sure enough, he had been overcharged by $1. It so happened that
> the store manager was standing there, and so, my cousin went over to
> him and said, "You need to make a correction in your scanners. Here,
> the price for the peaches (e.g.) is X, but at the register, I was
> charged $1 more." The manager said "Thank you for bringing this to my
> attention. Go to the Service Desk and they'll give you your dollar
> back." Then, he paused, took a dollar out of his own wallet and gave
> it my cousin saying, "Here, you take this. I don't want to
> inconvenience you by making you wait at the service desk."
And I had the opposite at a bake shop here. The price on the shelf
was X but at the checkout it came to X+Y. I pointed this out to the
checkout girl who refered to the clerk at the shelf. Both realized I
was right but neither would do anything about it! One said to the
other "You don't expect me to pay that out of my pocket, do you?".
If I had a choice, I would stop buying there!
On the other hand, I once needed an empty pie box for my wife to
bring to my daughter in Beitar. I asked a salesperson in that same
store, not either of the ones in the previous story and she gave
me _two_. And wouldn't accept payment.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
>
> This will be the first year that we are home for
> Pesach in a dozen year . It would be crazy to go back to Fl without my
> mother alive, with my brother tied up all of chal Hamoed because of Tax
> season and not be allowed to do much because of aveilus.
I wasn't aware that your mother died. HaMakom y'nachem etchem b'toch
sha'ar aveilei Tziyon v'Yerushalayim.
> We have quite a few people over for both Sedarim. Many people who
> used to come over years ago want to come over, Of course it won't
> be the same without Karen.
Who will be doing the work?
Yisroel Markov
<cst...@rochester.rr.com> said:
>On Mar 16, 6:28 pm, "Steve Goldfarb" <s...@panix.com> wrote:
>> In <24e5ec16-dcfd-4eab-932c-b95859cc8...@v34g2000prm.googlegroups.com> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>>
>> >Speaking of a quart of milk --- The mega-Wegmans features a small
>> >refrigerator case right up front by the registers with quarts of milk,
>> >eggs, and butter. This is for the convenience of someone who only
>> >wants to buy a quart of milk but doesn't want to have to walk all the
>> >way to the dairy department to get it. Unfortunately, there is no cure
>> >for the long walk through the parking lot :-(
>>
>> Interesting - that's very user-friendly, but actually the very reason most
>> stores historically have placed the milk and eggs in the furthest corner
>> was precisely so that you'd have to walk through the entire store to get
>> them, and hopefully you'd be enticed into picking up something else on
>> your trek...
>------
>That's exactly right, but it certainly makes for good customer
>relations. I would be surprised to find that anyone actually goes to
>mega-Wegmans just for a quart of milk. Wegmans probably generates
>millions of dollars in income every year, so if there actually is an
>occasional customer who buys only milk, it's really no big deal to
>Wegmans. Next time, the same guy will spend $200.
This paean got me curious. Turns out that Wegman's is a family-owned
company with over $3.5 billion in annual sales through 75 stores.
Their gross margin (earnings before taxes, interest, and depreciation)
is 7.5%, almost unbelievably high for a supermarket chain. They manage
to maintain that while competing with Walmart, which is crushing
lesser supermarkets, by "doing things that Walmart can't do" (per the
president/CEO). Not being publicly owned helps a lot. Viva capitalism!
The company started in 1916 with a single pushcart in Rochester, NY. I
wonder if Daniel Wegman is Jewish?
[snip]
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Harry Weiss
> Harry Weiss <hjw...@panix.com> writes:
> >
> > This will be the first year that we are home for
> > Pesach in a dozen year . It would be crazy to go back to Fl without my
> > mother alive, with my brother tied up all of chal Hamoed because of Tax
> > season and not be allowed to do much because of aveilus.
> I wasn't aware that your mother died. HaMakom y'nachem etchem b'toch
> sha'ar aveilei Tziyon v'Yerushalayim.
Thanks
> > We have quite a few people over for both Sedarim. Many people who
> > used to come over years ago want to come over, Of course it won't
> > be the same without Karen.
> Who will be doing the work?
I will with the help of my children.
> --
> Moshe Schorr
> It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
> The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
> May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
> btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
> Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
mm
Well, if they can't back out the sale, they could deduct what they owe
you from future sales.
>
>If I had a choice, I would stop buying there!
>
>On the other hand, I once needed an empty pie box for my wife to
>bring to my daughter in Beitar. I asked a salesperson in that same
>store, not either of the ones in the previous story and she gave
>me _two_. And wouldn't accept payment.
Aha! So just keeping getting free pie boxes until you are even.
--
Meir
"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
mm
Danny Wegman probably is Jewsh. I say that because isn't he Cindy's
father-in-law?
>
>[snip]
mm
<ey.m...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>
>This paean got me curious. Turns out that Wegman's is a family-owned
>company with over $3.5 billion in annual sales through 75 stores.
>Their gross margin (earnings before taxes, interest, and depreciation)
>is 7.5%, almost unbelievably high for a supermarket chain. They manage
>to maintain that while competing with Walmart, which is crushing
>lesser supermarkets, by "doing things that Walmart can't do" (per the
>president/CEO). Not being publicly owned helps a lot. Viva capitalism!
>The company started in 1916 with a single pushcart in Rochester, NY. I
>wonder if Daniel Wegman is Jewish?
This isn't just chauvinistic speculation on your part. The
combination of the year, 1916, the pushcart, and that it the location
isn't far from NYC certainly does hint that the grandfather, Walter
Wegman, was a Jew, and there may well be Jews named Wegman.
Actually, if one enters Daniel Wegman in Wikipedia it goes to an entry
for the 2002 Matsa Factory bombing. I would bet that Daniel Carlos
Wegman who was killed there was a Jew.
The current Wegman CEO they call Danny Wegman, and the entry for his
father Robert, the son of the co-founder Walter, says "He was a major
benefactor of the local high school he attended, Aquinas Institute, as
well as other Catholic education at Niagara University. At the
collegiate level, significant gifts from Robert Wegman to St. John
Fisher College helped create the Wegmans School of Pharmacy and the
Wegmans School of Nursing."
If it were just the high school, maybe, but I doubt he was a Jew.
Also I think interesting that if one enters Wegman by itself in a
wikipedia search box it comes up with Daniel Carlos Wegman as the
235th listing, but if one enters Daniel Wegman, it goes straight to
the page about the bombing that mentions him.
>[snip]
>--
>Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov -
--
cindys
Not even close. The Wegman family donates something like 5 million
dollars per year to Catholic schools. And not only do they donate all
of this money, they do so with no strings attached (i.e., the Wegman
family does not demand to sit on the Board of Trustees or have their
say in the operations of these Catholic schools).
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
I'm so sorry, Harry. :-(
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:42:36 +0000 (UTC), Yisroel Markov
>
>
> >This paean got me curious. Turns out that Wegman's is a family-owned
> >company with over $3.5 billion in annual sales through 75 stores.
> >Their gross margin (earnings before taxes, interest, and depreciation)
> >is 7.5%, almost unbelievably high for a supermarket chain. They manage
> >to maintain that while competing with Walmart, which is crushing
> >lesser supermarkets, by "doing things that Walmart can't do" (per the
> >president/CEO). Not being publicly owned helps a lot. Viva capitalism!
> >The company started in 1916 with a single pushcart in Rochester, NY. I
> >wonder if Daniel Wegman is Jewish?
>
> This isn't just chauvinistic speculation on your part. The
> combination of the year, 1916, the pushcart, and that it the location
> isn't far from NYC certainly does hint that the grandfather, Walter
> Wegman, was a Jew,
He wasn't.
snip
>
> The current Wegman CEO they call Danny Wegman, and the entry for his
> father Robert, the son of the co-founder Walter, says "He was a major
> benefactor of the local high school he attended, Aquinas Institute, as
> well as other Catholic education at Niagara University. At the
> collegiate level, significant gifts from Robert Wegman to St. John
> Fisher College helped create the Wegmans School of Pharmacy and the
> Wegmans School of Nursing."
>
> If it were just the high school, maybe, but I doubt he was a Jew.
I promise you that Walter Wegman, Bob Wegman, Danny Wegman etc are
absolutely 100% NOT Jewish.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Abe Kohen
"Harry Weiss" <hjw...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hnsb48$jve$2...@reader1.panix.com...
>
> this looks pretty easy. This will be the first year that we are home for
> Pesach in a dozen year . It would be crazy to go back to Fl without my
> mother alive, with my brother tied up all of chal Hamoed because of Tax
> season and not be allowed to do much because of aveilus.
>
> We have quite a few people over for both Sedarim. Many people who used to
> come over years ago want to come over, Of course it won't be the same
> without Karen.
No, unfortunately, it won't, but if it's any comfort to you, her legacy will
still be there.
May you have as good a Pesach as possible.
Best,
Abe
cindys
>
>
> >This paean got me curious. Turns out that Wegman's is a family-owned
> >company with over $3.5 billion in annual sales through 75 stores.
> >Their gross margin (earnings before taxes, interest, and depreciation)
> >is 7.5%, almost unbelievably high for a supermarket chain. They manage
> >to maintain that while competing with Walmart, which is crushing
> >lesser supermarkets, by "doing things that Walmart can't do" (per the
> >president/CEO). Not being publicly owned helps a lot. Viva capitalism!
Comparing Wegmans to Wal-Mart is like comparing apples to oranges. It
is true that Wal-Mart can try to compete with Wegmans by trying to
undercut Wegmans' prices on basic groceries, but even there, Wal-Mart
succeeds only some of the time. Sometimes Wegmans undercuts Wal-Mart's
prices. Some people think that Wal-Mart is the reason Wegmans' prices
stay reasonable (i.e., Wegmans wants to stay competitive with Wal-
Mart).
Other than cheaper prices on basic groceries (some of the time), Wal-
Mart has absolutely nothing over Wegmans. When was the last time you
wanted to find an employee to help you in Wal-Mart? Let's start with
that. At Wegmans, there are employees all over the place. On one
occasion, the mega-Wegmans decided to re-design the store layout, and
so all of a sudden, the cornflakes that used to be in aisle 11B
weren't there anymore. You can imagine how frustrating this could have
been. But Wegmans anticipated this problem, so for weeks after the re-
design, Wegmans stationed employees in every single aisle of the store
for the sole purpose of redirecting customers to the new locations.
Ask any Wegmans' employee where anything is located in the store, and
he/she knows the answer.
As far as the rest of it is concerned, Wal-Mart does not offer cases
and cases of fresh meats and imported cheeses. I'm not disputing that
Wal-Mart may have a butcher dept or cheese dept (I don't shop there,
so I don't know), but I can guarantee they don't hold a candle to
Wegmans. Does Wal-Mart have a "Nature's Marketplace?" This is aisles
and aisles dedicated to vegetarian and organic foods. Then, there are
the ethnic food aisles, Indian, Spanish, Asian, kosher, etc thousands
of items. Does Wal-Mart have that? Wal-Mart may have an in-store
bakery, but I promise you it doesn't come close to Wegmans. And does
Wal-Mart offer fresh prepared foods of every type, flavor, country,
variety? I think not. Wegman's floral shop could rival the best
florist in town and for a lot less money.
Now, let's compare Wegmans reputation for ethics and excellent
treatment of its employees and employee benefits. Wegmans makes a
point of buying produce from local farmers (and has signs that say
"These apples are from Mason Farms in Seneca Falls, for example). Does
Wal-Mart do that? No. Wal-Mart sets the price and then imports things
from other countries who in turn pay laborers subsistence wages (if
that) in order to be able to turn a profit. Wal-Mart has a reputation
for purchasing cheap products from overseas where laborers make them
in sweatshops. Wegmans philosophy is that they want to provide the
best quality while paying the farmer or supplier a fair price.
If Wegmans imports sausages from Germany that were aged for 12 mos
(for example, I don't know anything about sausages), the German farmer
sets the price for his sausages, and Wegmans (unlike Wal-Mart),
doesn't dictate to him how much they are willing to pay. (I know this
because they had an article about it in their _Le Menu_ magazine.)
Then, Wegmans will mark up the price to give themselves a fair profit.
There are going to be some customers who are willing to pay this price
and others not. The ones who can afford the imported gourmet sausage
will buy it. For the ones who can't afford it, there are dozens and
dozens of other sausages to choose from at Wegmans. There are plenty
of choices for everyone.
Last year, Wegmans got this new style of shopping carts. They must
have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on them. The customers
really disliked them and complained a lot. Within a couple of months,
Wegmans got rid of the new carts and replaced them with carts in the
old style (but with smoother handling and minus the squeaky wheels).
And while the new carts were on order, there were signs in the front
entry that read "You told us that you didn't like the new carts and
preferred the older style. Please be patient, the carts are on order
in the style that you like, but with smoother handling and without
squeaky wheels," and there was a sample display of the carts that were
on order.
Speaking for myself, I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart at all. I think the
whole store reeks of "cheap," and I think they are completely
unethical in the way they deal with companies/workers in other
countries. For Wal-Mart, it's only about making a profit. When it
comes to Wegmans, sure they want to make a profit too (they are a
business, after all), but they have a strong ethical imperative and
try to treat their suppliers and employees fairly and not destroy the
environment either.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> On Mar 18, 2:24 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:42:36 +0000 (UTC), Yisroel Markov
>
> > <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>
> > >This paean got me curious. Turns out that Wegman's is a family-owned
> > >company with over $3.5 billion in annual sales through 75 stores.
> > >Their gross margin (earnings before taxes, interest, and depreciation)
> > >is 7.5%, almost unbelievably high for a supermarket chain. They manage
> > >to maintain that while competing with Walmart, which is crushing
> > >lesser supermarkets, by "doing things that Walmart can't do" (per the
> > >president/CEO). Not being publicly owned helps a lot. Viva capitalism!
>
> ------
their prepared foods, and they really promote this, the Asian bar, the
Indian bar, etc They sell all sorts of tempting prepared hot foods
(like Tilapia French or Chicken Marsala and sweet potatoes with
cranberries or delicata squash in Wegmans finishing butter etc) by the
pound. The margin of profit on prepared foods is very high. Then,
there are all the aforementioned gourmet meats and cheeses and fancy
bakery items. They also sell flowers and expensive dishes and gifts.
Again, these are high profit items.
So, basically, they don't need to make much of a profit on corned
flakes or canned green beans. The regular price of a five-pound bag of
Wegmans flour is 99 cents. The regular price of a can of solid white
albacore tuna packed in water (Wegmans brand) is 99 cents. In other
stores in my area, these would be considered "sale" prices. So,
Wegmans keeps the prices on basic groceries low and competitive with
Wal-Mart and then they make all their profit on the prepared foods and
gourmet items that Wal-Mart doesn't sell. That's how they do it. And
people are willing to pay a lot of money for Wegman's merchandise
because it's perceived as being high-end, whereas Wal-Mart is
perceived as a place to go to buy cheap junk.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
fla...@verizon.net
On 18-Mar-2010, cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> I'm not disputing that
> Wal-Mart may have a butcher dept or cheese dept (I don't shop there,
> so I don't know),
They used to have meat departments, until the
workers in them tried to join the meat packers union.
Then Sam Walton (sp?) closed all the meat counters.
Susan
Yisroel Markov
<cst...@rochester.rr.com> said:
>On Mar 18, 2:24 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:42:36 +0000 (UTC), Yisroel Markov
>>
>> <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>>
>> >This paean got me curious. Turns out that Wegman's is a family-owned
>> >company with over $3.5 billion in annual sales through 75 stores.
>> >Their gross margin (earnings before taxes, interest, and depreciation)
>> >is 7.5%, almost unbelievably high for a supermarket chain. They manage
>> >to maintain that while competing with Walmart, which is crushing
>> >lesser supermarkets, by "doing things that Walmart can't do" (per the
>> >president/CEO). Not being publicly owned helps a lot. Viva capitalism!
>------
>Comparing Wegmans to Wal-Mart is like comparing apples to oranges.
Cindy, I'm not arguing with you. I was merely pointing out that
Wal-mart is what's known as a "category killer," and successfully
competing with it is a major feather in any store owner's cap.
BTW, I've seen a study crediting Wal-mart's relentless drive to lower
prices with adding 1% to the USA's GDP, an enormous number. It may
very well be that in dollar terms Wal-mart has delivered more benefits
to low-income Americans than all contemporary welfare programs.
[snip]
--
cindys
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:57:19 +0000 (UTC), cindys
> <cste...@rochester.rr.com> said:
>
> >On Mar 18, 2:24 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:42:36 +0000 (UTC), Yisroel Markov
>
> >> <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>
> >> >This paean got me curious. Turns out that Wegman's is a family-owned
> >> >company with over $3.5 billion in annual sales through 75 stores.
> >> >Their gross margin (earnings before taxes, interest, and depreciation)
> >> >is 7.5%, almost unbelievably high for a supermarket chain. They manage
> >> >to maintain that while competing with Walmart, which is crushing
> >> >lesser supermarkets, by "doing things that Walmart can't do" (per the
> >> >president/CEO). Not being publicly owned helps a lot. Viva capitalism!
> >------
> >Comparing Wegmans to Wal-Mart is like comparing apples to oranges.
>
> Cindy, I'm not arguing with you. I was merely pointing out that
> Wal-mart is what's known as a "category killer," and successfully
> competing with it is a major feather in any store owner's cap.
I didn't think you were arguing with me. I was offering an explanation
more than anything else.
>
> BTW, I've seen a study crediting Wal-mart's relentless drive to lower
> prices with adding 1% to the USA's GDP, an enormous number. It may
> very well be that in dollar terms Wal-mart has delivered more benefits
> to low-income Americans than all contemporary welfare programs.
Could be, but at the price of forcing workers in other countries to
work for slave wages (if the foreign company wants to provide goods
for Wal-Mart). If the foreign company is unwilling to accept the very
low price that Wal-Mart offers, Wal-Mart goes off and negotiates with
another company. I guess I take this very personally because it could
have been my sons working in one of those factory sweatshops for a few
dollars a day (or whatever they pay) making cheap plastic ducks for
Wal-Mart to sell in its garden department.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>
>>And I had the opposite at a bake shop here. The price on the shelf
>>was X but at the checkout it came to X+Y. I pointed this out to the
>>checkout girl who refered to the clerk at the shelf. Both realized I
>>was right but neither would do anything about it! One said to the
>>other "You don't expect me to pay that out of my pocket, do you?".
>
> Well, if they can't back out the sale, they could deduct what they
> owe you from future sales.
Trouble is, all their prices are determined by computer aitomatically
based on weight.
>>If I had a choice, I would stop buying there!
>>
>>On the other hand, I once needed an empty pie box for my wife to
>>bring to my daughter in Beitar. I asked a salesperson in that same
>>store, not either of the ones in the previous story and she gave
>>me _two_. And wouldn't accept payment.
>
> Aha! So just keeping getting free pie boxes until you are even.
ROTFLOL!
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
>> dozen year . It would be crazy to go back to Fl without my
>> mother alive, with my brother tied up all of chal Hamoed because
>> of Tax season and not be allowed to do much because of aveilus.
>>
>> We have quite a few people over for both Sedarim. Many people
>> won't be the same without Karen.
Harry, I give you much credit for trying to make Pesach on your own.
> No, unfortunately, it won't, but if it's any comfort to you, her
> legacy will still be there.
For sure. I suspect that's part of the rreason Harry is doing it.
> May you have as good a Pesach as possible.
Ditto.
Joe Bruno
> "Don Levey" <Don_S...@the-leveys.us> wrote in message
>
> news:hnm6ou$g59$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > sheldonlg wrote:
> >> Susan S wrote:
> >>> Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
> >>> hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
> >>> who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
>
> >>> Susan Silberstein
>
> >> Wow! I had forgotten what a price differential there is between kosher
> >> and not kosher. I get [Angus] ribeye steaks, not chuck roast, for
> >> $5.99. A chuck roast is in the order of two dollar and something. OK,
> >> these are not hormone and anti-biotic free, and have no hecksher, but
> >> still.....over twice the price?
>
> > Around here, I think, the non-kosher chuck can be $4.50/lb. Angus beef
> > regularly goes for $9-16/lb. If the TJs here comes out with $5.99/lb,
> > it's very attractive to me.
>
> I haven't bought chuck in ages and cannot remember how to cook it.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Cook it like a brisket?
You can do that.
mm
>mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> writes:
>> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>>
>>>And I had the opposite at a bake shop here. The price on the shelf
>>>was X but at the checkout it came to X+Y. I pointed this out to the
>>>checkout girl who refered to the clerk at the shelf. Both realized I
>>>was right but neither would do anything about it! One said to the
>>>other "You don't expect me to pay that out of my pocket, do you?".
>>
>> Well, if they can't back out the sale, they could deduct what they
>> owe you from future sales.
>
>Trouble is, all their prices are determined by computer aitomatically
>based on weight.
A) That's terrible. All computer systems should have manual
overrides. This is not just my view, it's what computer systems
designers say.
But a manual override isn't necessary:
B) If they are weighing the stuff at the store, they can weigh out as
much as you are to be billed for, and then weigh out the the rest,
that equals your refund, but not ring it up. They can put it in the
same package after that.
If it's weighed out elsewhere, they can ring up the one pound package
and hand you the two-pound package. Will that ruin their inventory
count? A) if they're honest, that's their problem, B) No, because
they did the opposite earlier.
I'm reminded of August of 1968 when 4 of us had driven from Chicago to
Boston and we went to the movies, and there was a fire in the basement
and they gave everyone in the theatre rain-checks and told me, that
yes, the office was closed at night but since we were leaving the next
day, we could send in the rainchecks and get money in return. But
they ignored my letters, and my phone call when I was visiting my
brother in the army nearby, so when I was in downtown Boston a couple
years later and had a lunch break, I went to the theatre, and as luck
would have it, the guy passing out rain-checks years earlier was now
the manager. He remembered the incident and we both remembered the
name of the movie. He sent me to the manager of their local chain of
two or more theatres, about 4 blocks away.
Maybe he called the guy to say I was coming, maybe not, but the chain
manager never expressed doubt that we had been given rain-checks
(which I didn't have anymore. I had mailed them in, in days before
there were xerox machines), and never expressed doubt that they told
me we could get a cash refund.
Still, he gave me one excuse after another for not paying me. He said
they split their revenue with the studio, so a refund should come out
of the money they had paid the studio. I said, take it out of the
money that you pay that studio the next time you have a movie from
that studio. He said that some of the profit was given to the star of
the movie. (I didn't and don't believe individual movie theatres have
to worry about that, but I didn't say that. I don't remember what I
said on that particular point). I finally said this is the kind of
treatment I'd expect from a porno theatre, not a reputable downtown
movie theatre. I said give me the money from the account from which
you pay her**! Pay me out of the popcorn money! And that got him, he
reached his hand in his pocket and the first bill he pulled out was
the right amount, he shoved it at me, turned quickly and left quickly.
I figure when he got back to his office, he deducted twice what he
gave me, one part reimbursement to him and the other part to
compensate himself for his aggravation.
**pointing to the secretary. I was amazed that he was willing to have
this argument in front of the secretary. I guess at first he thought
it would be simple, and once he was into it, it didn't occur to him to
stop and move to his office. Or maybe she already knew he was
skinflint.
>
>>>If I had a choice, I would stop buying there!
>>>
>>>On the other hand, I once needed an empty pie box for my wife to
>>>bring to my daughter in Beitar. I asked a salesperson in that same
>>>store, not either of the ones in the previous story and she gave
>>>me _two_. And wouldn't accept payment.
>>
>> Aha! So just keep_ getting free pie boxes until you are even.
>
>ROTFLOL!
--
Meir
mm
<wba...@panix.com> wrote:
>mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>: On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 02:51:38 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker"
>: <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>: >Abe Kohen <abek...@gmail.com> wrote:
>: >
>: >: "Don Levey" <Don_...@the-leveys.us> wrote in message
>: >
>: >: Best,
>: >: Abe
>: >
>: >Pot roast. Wet, covered on stovetop or in oven and long.
>: >
>: >Wendy Baker
>
>: Wendy, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you but isn't that the
>: way to get gooey gummy fat?
>
>: After both my brother and I complained for a few years, my mother
>: stopped making it that way. Yes, I know, each to his own taste...
>: --
>
>: Meir
>
>: "The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
>
>That's the basic principle of making pot roast as opposed to roast beef
>which is dry roasted(uncovered) in the oven. For pot roast you do have to
>use flavorful stuff in the pan like onions, tomatos, wine, herbs,
>freshly ground black pepper,etc or
>you get kind of gray dull food like school pot roast:-)
>
>You shuld taste my caramelized brisket recipe which cn also be made with
I would love to.
>top of the rib. It is an old family one and is availible on the archives
>of jewish-food archives at www.jewishfood-list.com
Oh, I have to make it myself. :(
>Wendy
Yisroel Markov
<cst...@rochester.rr.com> said:
>On Mar 21, 12:21 am, Yisroel Markov <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> BTW, I've seen a study crediting Wal-mart's relentless drive to lower
>> prices with adding 1% to the USA's GDP, an enormous number. It may
>> very well be that in dollar terms Wal-mart has delivered more benefits
>> to low-income Americans than all contemporary welfare programs.
>
>Could be, but at the price of forcing workers in other countries to
>work for slave wages (if the foreign company wants to provide goods
>for Wal-Mart). If the foreign company is unwilling to accept the very
>low price that Wal-Mart offers, Wal-Mart goes off and negotiates with
>another company. I guess I take this very personally because it could
>have been my sons working in one of those factory sweatshops for a few
>dollars a day (or whatever they pay) making cheap plastic ducks for
>Wal-Mart to sell in its garden department.
Personally, as long as no one forces anybody to work in these
sweatshops, I'm OK with that, as it's clearly better than the
alternatives.
American consumption and direct factory investment are a net good for
our trading partners. Witness, e.g., Reebok moving its factories from
country to country: they come for the low wages, but eventually the
extra development their factories bring make the wages not-so-low any
more, so they move. BTW, outsourcing has slowed down greatly in the
past fire years, and many employers (e.g., Caterpillar) are bringing
production back, as the wages in China and elsewhere are starting to
be not low enough to offset the extra transportation and logistics
costs. Not to mention, e.g., Indian firms insourcing here in the USA.
And AFAIK there's no halakhic imperative to pay a living wage, however
defined, only a competitive one, and on time. (Unhealthy working
conditions are another story.)
Susan S
<hjw...@panix.com>:
>Susan S <otoerem...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
>> hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
>> who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
>
>> Susan Silberstein
>
>The red meat at Trader Joes under their own label is Hebrew National and
>under the Triangle K.
The meat I bought is not the Trader Joe's brand (don't remember the
name) and the certification is OU.
Sorry for the delay in response, but one of my sister's-in-law died a
couple of weeks ago and I have not felt like reading or posting. She had
weight loss surgery, the lap band kind (which I advised against). Ten
days later she had a stroke; two days after that she died. She was only
35. The surgery may not have been a contributing factor, but we will
never know.
Susan Silberstein
Abe Kohen
"Susan S" <otoerem...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:ble7r55m3148orj1i...@4ax.com...
Sorry for your loss.
Don't know the stats on the lap band, but we had a friend over for Seder,
who had lap band surgery a few years back, and while he hasn't lost a
significant amount of weight, he also has not gained any since then, which
just might be why he is still with us.
Abe
Harry Weiss
> In soc.culture.jewish.moderated I read this message from Harry Weiss
> <hjw...@panix.com>:
> >Susan S <otoerem...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
> >> hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
> >> who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
> >
> >> Susan Silberstein
> >
> >The red meat at Trader Joes under their own label is Hebrew National and
> >under the Triangle K.
> The meat I bought is not the Trader Joe's brand (don't remember the
> name) and the certification is OU.
They are now carrying Teva brand (made by Goden West out of Denver) which
is OU Glatt.
> Sorry for the delay in response, but one of my sister's-in-law died a
> couple of weeks ago and I have not felt like reading or posting. She had
> weight loss surgery, the lap band kind (which I advised against). Ten
> days later she had a stroke; two days after that she died. She was only
> 35. The surgery may not have been a contributing factor, but we will
> never know.
May G-d comfort you among the other mourners in Jerussalem. It is always
terrible to lose someone, but when someone is only 35 that is so much
worse.
> Susan Silberstein
Susan S
Thank you.
Susan Silberstein
mm
<otoerem...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In soc.culture.jewish.moderated I read this message from Harry Weiss
><hjw...@panix.com>:
>
>>Susan S <otoerem...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>> Trader Joe's in Southern California is selling U.S. produced Kosher,
>>> hormone and antibiotic-free chuck roast for $5.99/lb. I don't remember
>>> who certified it. I saw it yesterday, March 14.
>>
>>> Susan Silberstein
>>
>>The red meat at Trader Joes under their own label is Hebrew National and
>>under the Triangle K.
>
>The meat I bought is not the Trader Joe's brand (don't remember the
>name) and the certification is OU.
They have some of each at the TJ's in Pikesville.
>
>Sorry for the delay in response, but one of my sister's-in-law died a
>couple of weeks ago and I have not felt like reading or posting. She had
>weight loss surgery, the lap band kind (which I advised against). Ten
>days later she had a stroke; two days after that she died. She was only
>35. The surgery may not have been a contributing factor, but we will
>never know.
May HaShem comfort you and your family.
>Susan Silberstein
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
>
> Sorry for the delay in response, but one of my sister's-in-law died a
> couple of weeks ago and I have not felt like reading or posting. She had
> weight loss surgery, the lap band kind (which I advised against). Ten
> days later she had a stroke; two days after that she died. She was only
> 35. The surgery may not have been a contributing factor, but we will
> never know.
How sad. For so _many_ reasons. Why can't people be happy with the
way they look? Or take _natural_ methods (exercise, proper diet, etc)
to change it? What a loss of someone so young. Accept my condolences.
Abe Kohen
<mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:2010Apr...@mm.huji.ac.il...
> Susan S <otoerem...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>
>> Sorry for the delay in response, but one of my sister's-in-law died a
>> couple of weeks ago and I have not felt like reading or posting. She had
>> weight loss surgery, the lap band kind (which I advised against). Ten
>> days later she had a stroke; two days after that she died. She was only
>> 35. The surgery may not have been a contributing factor, but we will
>> never know.
>
> How sad. For so _many_ reasons. Why can't people be happy with the
> way they look? Or take _natural_ methods (exercise, proper diet, etc)
> to change it? What a loss of someone so young. Accept my condolences.
Lap band surgery is not cosmetic. It is for the severely obese who have
typically exhausted other methods. I have a dear friend who had
unsuccesfully tried other methods. Now at least he is no longer gaining more
weight and is able to lead a normal life.
Best,
Abe
Don Levey
I too have a friend who is in a similar position, and she is now down to
a much healthier weight. She was having back and joint problems, at
risk for heart problems, and more.
--
Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
(email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: Don't send mail to to sal...@the-leveys.us
GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
Thanks for the explanation. I regret my rashness. Accept my apologies
if I offended anyone.
Susan S
<abek...@gmail.com>:
She weighed 340 pounds! One of the reasons I objected so strongly is
that she had not even tried anything like Weight Watchers or any kind of
healthy diet and I was very suspicious that the surgeon was willing to
take on a patient given that. Unlike my brother- and sister-in-law, I
did lots of research and, long story short, she just seemed like a bad
candidate for the surgery, at least until she had done some other things
first.
Susan Silberstein
Susan S
>"Abe Kohen" <abek...@gmail.com> writes:
>> <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>>> Susan S <otoerem...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the delay in response, but one of my sister's-in-law died a
>>>> couple of weeks ago and I have not felt like reading or posting. She had
>>>> weight loss surgery, the lap band kind (which I advised against). Ten
>>>> days later she had a stroke; two days after that she died. She was only
>>>> 35. The surgery may not have been a contributing factor, but we will
>>>> never know.
>>>
>>> How sad. For so _many_ reasons. Why can't people be happy with the
>>> way they look? Or take _natural_ methods (exercise, proper diet, etc)
>>> to change it? What a loss of someone so young. Accept my condolences.
>>
>> Lap band surgery is not cosmetic. It is for the severely obese who
>> have typically exhausted other methods. I have a dear friend who had
>> unsuccesfully tried other methods. Now at least he is no longer
>> gaining more weight and is able to lead a normal life.
>
>Thanks for the explanation. I regret my rashness. Accept my apologies
>if I offended anyone.
I am certainly not offended, a chance to learn something, right?
After weight loss surgery, patients are limited to very, very restricted
diets. Some people who have little discipline sometimes welcome a
situation where they do not have to make many choices about what and how
much to eat. Those of us not faced with this can be grateful to sit down
with our families for a big [healthy] dinner Friday night.
Susan Silberstein