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Self-Censorship: Free Society vs. Fear Society
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Michael Ejercito
Dec 2, 2016, 9:39:47 AM12/2/16
to
Self-Censorship: Free Society vs. Fear Society
by Giulio Meotti
December 2, 2016 at 5:00 am
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9459/self-censorship
"The drama and the tragedy is that the only ones to win are the
jihadists." — Flemming Rose, who published the Mohammed cartoons in 2005, as
cultural editor of Jyllands-Posten newspaper.
"Why the f*ck did you say yes to appear on stage with this terrorist target,
are you stupid? Do you have a secret death wish? You have grandchildren now.
Are you completely out of your mind? It's okay if you want to die yourself,
but why are you taking the company though all this?" — The managers of
Jyllands-Posten, to Flemming Rose.
"We are also aware that we therefore bow to violence and intimidation." —
Editorial, Jyllands-Posten.
"I do not blame them that they care about the safety of employees. I have
bodyguards 24 hours a day. However, I believe that we must stand firm. If
Flemming shuts his mouth, democracy will be lost." — Naser Khader, a liberal
Muslim of Syrian origin who lives in Denmark.
In the summer of 2005, the Danish artist Kåre Bluitgen, when he met a
journalist from the Ritzaus Bureau news agency, said he was unable to find
anyone willing to illustrate his book on Mohammed, the prophet of Islam.
Three illustrators he contacted, Bluitgen said, were too scared. A few
months later, Bluitgen reported that he had found someone willing to
illustrate his book, but only on the condition of anonymity.
Like most Danish newspapers, Jyllands-Posten decided to publish an article
about Bluitgen's case. To test the state of freedom of expression, Flemming
Rose, Jyllands-Posten's cultural editor at the time, called twelve
cartoonists, and offered them $160 each to draw a caricature of Mohammed.
What then happened is a well-known, chilling story.
In the wave of Islamist violence against the cartoons, at least two hundred
people were killed. Danish products vanished from shelves in Bahrain, Qatar,
Yemen, Oman, the UAE and Lebanon. Masked gunmen stormed the offices of the
European Union in Gaza and warned Danes and Norwegians to leave within 48
hours. In the Libyan city of Benghazi, protesters set fire to the Italian
consulate. Political Islam understood what was being achieved and raised the
stakes; the West did not.
An Islamic fatwa also forever changed Flemming Rose's life. In an Islamic
caricature, his head was put on a pike. The Taliban offered a bounty to
anyone who would kill him. Rose's office at the newspaper was repeatedly
evacuated for bomb threats. And Rose's name and face entered ISIS's
blacklist, along with that of the murdered editor of Charlie Hebdo, Stéphane
Charbonnier.
Less known is the "white fatwa" that the journalistic class imposed on Rose.
This brave Danish journalist reveals it in a recently published book, "De
Besatte" ("The Obsessed"). "It is the story of how fear devours souls,
friendships and the professional community," says Rose. The book reveals how
his own newspaper forced Rose to surrender.
"The drama and the tragedy is that the only ones to win are the jihadists,"
Flemming Rose told the Danish newspaper Weekendavisen.
The CEO of Jyllands-Posten, Jørgen Ejbøl, summoned Rose to his office, and
asked, "You have grandchildren, do not you think about them?"
The company that publishes his newspaper, JP/Politikens Hus, said: "It's not
about Rose, but the safety of two thousand employees."
Jorn Mikkelsen, Rose's former director, and the newspaper's business heads,
obliged him to sign a nine-point diktat, in which the Danish journalist
accepted, among other demands, "not participating in radio and television
programs", "not attending conferences", "not commenting on religious
issues", "not writing about the Organization of the Islamic Conference" and
"not commenting on the cartoons".
Rose signed this letter of surrender during the harshest time for the
newspaper, when, in 2010-2011, there were countless attempts on his life by
terrorists, and also attempts on the life of Kurt Westergaard, illustrator
of a cartoon (Mohammed with a bomb in his turban) that was burned in public
squares across the Arab world. Westergaard was then placed on "indefinite
leave" by Jyllands-Posten "for security reasons."
Is democracy lost? Eleven years after Jyllands-Posten published the Mohammed
cartoons, the newspaper has a barbed-wire fence two meters high and one
kilometer long. Kurt Westergaard, the illustrator who drew one of the
cartoons (left), lives in hiding in a fortress, and Flemming Rose (right),
the editor who commissioned the cartoons, has fled to the United States.
In his book, Rose also reveals that two articles were censored by his
newspaper, along with an outburst from the CEO of the company, Lars Munch:
"You have to stop, you're obsessed, on the fourth floor there are people who
ask 'can't he stop?'".
Rose then drew more wrath from his managers when he agreed to participate in
a conference with the equally targeted Dutch parliamentarian, Geert Wilders,
who at this moment is on trial in the Netherlands for "hate speech." Rose
writes:
He starts yelling at me, "Why the f*ck did you say yes to appear on stage
with this terrorist target, are you stupid? Do you have a secret death wish?
You have grandchildren now. Are you completely out of your mind? It's okay
if you want to die yourself, but why are you taking the company though all
this?"
Jyllands-Posten also pressured Rose when he decided to write a book about
the cartoons, "Hymne til Friheden" ("Hymn to Freedom"). His editor told him
that the newspaper would "curb the harmful effects" of the book by keeping
its publication as low-key as possible. Rose was then threatened with
dismissal if he did not cancel two debates for the tenth anniversary of the
Mohammed cartoons (Rose, in fact, did not show up that day at a conference
in Copenhagen).
After the 2015 massacre at Charlie Hebdo, Rose, no longer willing to abide
by the "diktat" he was ordered to sign, resigned as the head of the foreign
desk of Jyllands-Posten, and now works in the U.S. for the Cato Institute
think-tank. The former editor of Jyllands-Posten, Carsten Juste, who was
also blacklisted by ISIS, confirmed Rose's allegations.
Rose writes in the conclusion of his book: "I'm not obsessed with anything.
The fanatics are those who want to attack us, and the possessed are my
former bosses at Jyllands-Posten."
Rose's revelations confirm another familiar story: Jyllands-Posten's
surrender to fear. Since 2006, each time its editors and publishers were
asked if they still would have published the drawings of Mohammed, the
answer has always been "no." This response means that the editors had
effectively tasked Rose with writing the newspaper for fanatics and
terrorists thousands of kilometers away. Even after the January 7, 2015
massacre at the weekly Charlie Hebdo in Paris, targeted precisely because it
had republished the Danish cartoons, Jyllands-Posten announced that, out of
fear, it would not republish the cartoons:
"We have lived with the fear of a terrorist attack for nine years, and yes,
that is the explanation why we do not reprint the cartoons, whether it be
our own or Charlie Hebdo's. We are also aware that we therefore bow to
violence and intimidation."
A Danish comedian, Anders Matthesen, said that the newspaper and the
cartoons were to blame for the Islamist violence -- the same official
position as the entire European political and journalistic mainstream.
A year ago, for the 10th anniversary of the affair, instead of the cartoons,
Jyllands-Posten came out with twelve white spaces. These white spaces
represent what Rose, in his previous book, called "Tavshedens tiranni" ("The
Tyranny of Silence"). Naser Khader, a liberal Muslim of Syrian origin who
lives in Denmark, wrote:
"I do not blame them that they care about the safety of employees. I have
bodyguards 24 hours a day. However, I believe that we must stand firm. If
Flemming shuts his mouth, democracy will be lost."
Is democracy lost? The headquarters of Jyllands-Posten today has a
barbed-wire fence two meters high and one kilometer long, a door with double
lock (as in banks), and employees can only enter one at a time by typing in
a personal code (a measure that did not protect Charlie Hebdo). Meanwhile,
the former editor, Carsten Juste, has withdrawn from journalism; Kurt
Westergaard lives in hiding in a fortress, and Flemming Rose, like Ayaan
Hirsi Ali, fled to the United States.
Much, certainly, looks lost. "We are not living in a 'free society' anymore,
but in a 'fear society'", Rose has said.
Giulio Meotti, Cultural Editor for Il Foglio, is an Italian journalist and
author.
by Giulio Meotti
December 2, 2016 at 5:00 am
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9459/self-censorship
"The drama and the tragedy is that the only ones to win are the
jihadists." — Flemming Rose, who published the Mohammed cartoons in 2005, as
cultural editor of Jyllands-Posten newspaper.
"Why the f*ck did you say yes to appear on stage with this terrorist target,
are you stupid? Do you have a secret death wish? You have grandchildren now.
Are you completely out of your mind? It's okay if you want to die yourself,
but why are you taking the company though all this?" — The managers of
Jyllands-Posten, to Flemming Rose.
"We are also aware that we therefore bow to violence and intimidation." —
Editorial, Jyllands-Posten.
"I do not blame them that they care about the safety of employees. I have
bodyguards 24 hours a day. However, I believe that we must stand firm. If
Flemming shuts his mouth, democracy will be lost." — Naser Khader, a liberal
Muslim of Syrian origin who lives in Denmark.
In the summer of 2005, the Danish artist Kåre Bluitgen, when he met a
journalist from the Ritzaus Bureau news agency, said he was unable to find
anyone willing to illustrate his book on Mohammed, the prophet of Islam.
Three illustrators he contacted, Bluitgen said, were too scared. A few
months later, Bluitgen reported that he had found someone willing to
illustrate his book, but only on the condition of anonymity.
Like most Danish newspapers, Jyllands-Posten decided to publish an article
about Bluitgen's case. To test the state of freedom of expression, Flemming
Rose, Jyllands-Posten's cultural editor at the time, called twelve
cartoonists, and offered them $160 each to draw a caricature of Mohammed.
What then happened is a well-known, chilling story.
In the wave of Islamist violence against the cartoons, at least two hundred
people were killed. Danish products vanished from shelves in Bahrain, Qatar,
Yemen, Oman, the UAE and Lebanon. Masked gunmen stormed the offices of the
European Union in Gaza and warned Danes and Norwegians to leave within 48
hours. In the Libyan city of Benghazi, protesters set fire to the Italian
consulate. Political Islam understood what was being achieved and raised the
stakes; the West did not.
An Islamic fatwa also forever changed Flemming Rose's life. In an Islamic
caricature, his head was put on a pike. The Taliban offered a bounty to
anyone who would kill him. Rose's office at the newspaper was repeatedly
evacuated for bomb threats. And Rose's name and face entered ISIS's
blacklist, along with that of the murdered editor of Charlie Hebdo, Stéphane
Charbonnier.
Less known is the "white fatwa" that the journalistic class imposed on Rose.
This brave Danish journalist reveals it in a recently published book, "De
Besatte" ("The Obsessed"). "It is the story of how fear devours souls,
friendships and the professional community," says Rose. The book reveals how
his own newspaper forced Rose to surrender.
"The drama and the tragedy is that the only ones to win are the jihadists,"
Flemming Rose told the Danish newspaper Weekendavisen.
The CEO of Jyllands-Posten, Jørgen Ejbøl, summoned Rose to his office, and
asked, "You have grandchildren, do not you think about them?"
The company that publishes his newspaper, JP/Politikens Hus, said: "It's not
about Rose, but the safety of two thousand employees."
Jorn Mikkelsen, Rose's former director, and the newspaper's business heads,
obliged him to sign a nine-point diktat, in which the Danish journalist
accepted, among other demands, "not participating in radio and television
programs", "not attending conferences", "not commenting on religious
issues", "not writing about the Organization of the Islamic Conference" and
"not commenting on the cartoons".
Rose signed this letter of surrender during the harshest time for the
newspaper, when, in 2010-2011, there were countless attempts on his life by
terrorists, and also attempts on the life of Kurt Westergaard, illustrator
of a cartoon (Mohammed with a bomb in his turban) that was burned in public
squares across the Arab world. Westergaard was then placed on "indefinite
leave" by Jyllands-Posten "for security reasons."
Is democracy lost? Eleven years after Jyllands-Posten published the Mohammed
cartoons, the newspaper has a barbed-wire fence two meters high and one
kilometer long. Kurt Westergaard, the illustrator who drew one of the
cartoons (left), lives in hiding in a fortress, and Flemming Rose (right),
the editor who commissioned the cartoons, has fled to the United States.
In his book, Rose also reveals that two articles were censored by his
newspaper, along with an outburst from the CEO of the company, Lars Munch:
"You have to stop, you're obsessed, on the fourth floor there are people who
ask 'can't he stop?'".
Rose then drew more wrath from his managers when he agreed to participate in
a conference with the equally targeted Dutch parliamentarian, Geert Wilders,
who at this moment is on trial in the Netherlands for "hate speech." Rose
writes:
He starts yelling at me, "Why the f*ck did you say yes to appear on stage
with this terrorist target, are you stupid? Do you have a secret death wish?
You have grandchildren now. Are you completely out of your mind? It's okay
if you want to die yourself, but why are you taking the company though all
this?"
Jyllands-Posten also pressured Rose when he decided to write a book about
the cartoons, "Hymne til Friheden" ("Hymn to Freedom"). His editor told him
that the newspaper would "curb the harmful effects" of the book by keeping
its publication as low-key as possible. Rose was then threatened with
dismissal if he did not cancel two debates for the tenth anniversary of the
Mohammed cartoons (Rose, in fact, did not show up that day at a conference
in Copenhagen).
After the 2015 massacre at Charlie Hebdo, Rose, no longer willing to abide
by the "diktat" he was ordered to sign, resigned as the head of the foreign
desk of Jyllands-Posten, and now works in the U.S. for the Cato Institute
think-tank. The former editor of Jyllands-Posten, Carsten Juste, who was
also blacklisted by ISIS, confirmed Rose's allegations.
Rose writes in the conclusion of his book: "I'm not obsessed with anything.
The fanatics are those who want to attack us, and the possessed are my
former bosses at Jyllands-Posten."
Rose's revelations confirm another familiar story: Jyllands-Posten's
surrender to fear. Since 2006, each time its editors and publishers were
asked if they still would have published the drawings of Mohammed, the
answer has always been "no." This response means that the editors had
effectively tasked Rose with writing the newspaper for fanatics and
terrorists thousands of kilometers away. Even after the January 7, 2015
massacre at the weekly Charlie Hebdo in Paris, targeted precisely because it
had republished the Danish cartoons, Jyllands-Posten announced that, out of
fear, it would not republish the cartoons:
"We have lived with the fear of a terrorist attack for nine years, and yes,
that is the explanation why we do not reprint the cartoons, whether it be
our own or Charlie Hebdo's. We are also aware that we therefore bow to
violence and intimidation."
A Danish comedian, Anders Matthesen, said that the newspaper and the
cartoons were to blame for the Islamist violence -- the same official
position as the entire European political and journalistic mainstream.
A year ago, for the 10th anniversary of the affair, instead of the cartoons,
Jyllands-Posten came out with twelve white spaces. These white spaces
represent what Rose, in his previous book, called "Tavshedens tiranni" ("The
Tyranny of Silence"). Naser Khader, a liberal Muslim of Syrian origin who
lives in Denmark, wrote:
"I do not blame them that they care about the safety of employees. I have
bodyguards 24 hours a day. However, I believe that we must stand firm. If
Flemming shuts his mouth, democracy will be lost."
Is democracy lost? The headquarters of Jyllands-Posten today has a
barbed-wire fence two meters high and one kilometer long, a door with double
lock (as in banks), and employees can only enter one at a time by typing in
a personal code (a measure that did not protect Charlie Hebdo). Meanwhile,
the former editor, Carsten Juste, has withdrawn from journalism; Kurt
Westergaard lives in hiding in a fortress, and Flemming Rose, like Ayaan
Hirsi Ali, fled to the United States.
Much, certainly, looks lost. "We are not living in a 'free society' anymore,
but in a 'fear society'", Rose has said.
Giulio Meotti, Cultural Editor for Il Foglio, is an Italian journalist and
author.
Mr. B1ack
Dec 2, 2016, 10:13:17 PM12/2/16
to
On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 06:40:51 -0800, "Michael Ejercito"
<meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Self-Censorship: Free Society vs. Fear Society
>by Giulio Meotti
>December 2, 2016 at 5:00 am
>https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9459/self-censorship
>
>
>"The drama and the tragedy is that the only ones to win are the
>jihadists." — Flemming Rose, who published the Mohammed cartoons in 2005, as
>cultural editor of Jyllands-Posten newspaper.
Strictly speaking, "free speech" means the GOVERNMENT
<meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Self-Censorship: Free Society vs. Fear Society
>by Giulio Meotti
>December 2, 2016 at 5:00 am
>https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9459/self-censorship
>
>
>"The drama and the tragedy is that the only ones to win are the
>jihadists." — Flemming Rose, who published the Mohammed cartoons in 2005, as
>cultural editor of Jyllands-Posten newspaper.
can't arrest you, or suppress you, for voicing a political
opinion - no matter how fucked up it may be. It does NOT
mean that Joe Average won't be affected by what you say
and do some amateur cosmetic surgery on your face.
Words MEAN things after all (well, except for campaign
speeches). If German Jews had smashed in a few NAZI
faces early on there'd be a lot more German Jews today.
No, you're not *supposed* to attack people over their
political opinions but silence CAN equal death too ... so
it's a judgement call. If silence only equals "annoyance"
then you've no excuses to go rogue.
Alas we've seen how even our "liberals" aren't keen to
abide by even the most Borkian interpretation of "free
speech". Remember the infamous "Mohammed film"
... the one Obama and HRC blamed for the whole
Benghazi debacle ? They really REALLY tried to find
an excuse to arrest the dumb-ass preacher who
made it ... and DID manage to intimidate him. On the
whole, politicians are all in favor of "free speech" so
long as you're freely speaking what THEY want to hear.
Michael Ejercito
Dec 3, 2016, 12:36:36 PM12/3/16
to
"Mr. B1ack" wrote in message
news:q9d44cl8onsfqqd4j...@4ax.com...
>On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 06:40:51 -0800, "Michael Ejercito"
><meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Self-Censorship: Free Society vs. Fear Society
>>by Giulio Meotti
>>December 2, 2016 at 5:00 am
>>https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9459/self-censorship
>>
>>
>>"The drama and the tragedy is that the only ones to win are the
>>jihadists." — Flemming Rose, who published the Mohammed cartoons in 2005,
>>as
>>cultural editor of Jyllands-Posten newspaper.
> Strictly speaking, "free speech" means the GOVERNMENT
> can't arrest you, or suppress you, for voicing a political
> opinion - no matter how fucked up it may be. It does NOT
> mean that Joe Average won't be affected by what you say
> and do some amateur cosmetic surgery on your face.
> Words MEAN things after all (well, except for campaign
> speeches). If German Jews had smashed in a few NAZI
> faces early on there'd be a lot more German Jews today.
> No, you're not *supposed* to attack people over their
> political opinions but silence CAN equal death too ... so
> it's a judgement call. If silence only equals "annoyance"
> then you've no excuses to go rogue.
> Alas we've seen how even our "liberals" aren't keen to
> abide by even the most Borkian interpretation of "free
> speech". Remember the infamous "Mohammed film"
> ... the one Obama and HRC blamed for the whole
> Benghazi debacle ? They really REALLY tried to find
> an excuse to arrest the dumb-ass preacher who
> made it ... and DID manage to intimidate him.
Michael
Mr. B1ack
Dec 3, 2016, 10:34:06 PM12/3/16
to
On Sat, 3 Dec 2016 09:37:40 -0800, "Michael Ejercito"
Excellent question .... and an unpopular answer. The
judgement call gets made by "whomever", probably
with mere seconds of consideration. If there's some
large and well known concensus on the issue at hand
then it'll take less than a few seconds.
Sorry, we're talking HUMANS here ... not machines.
Somebody gets convinced they're under dire threat
and they'll ACT accordingly. Seeing them act can,
and often does, prompt OTHER people to act the
same way ... a chain-reaction meme, so to speak.
There are probably sound Darwinian reasons for it.
>> Alas we've seen how even our "liberals" aren't keen to
>> abide by even the most Borkian interpretation of "free
>> speech". Remember the infamous "Mohammed film"
>> ... the one Obama and HRC blamed for the whole
>> Benghazi debacle ? They really REALLY tried to find
>> an excuse to arrest the dumb-ass preacher who
>> made it ... and DID manage to intimidate him.
> He became a political prisoner.
Well, not "locked up" political prisoner ... but in
a psychological sense, yes. They've put the
gun to his head and he will never feel free to
say what he thinks anymore. Kind of an
Orwell meets Kafka thing ....
judgement call gets made by "whomever", probably
with mere seconds of consideration. If there's some
large and well known concensus on the issue at hand
then it'll take less than a few seconds.
Sorry, we're talking HUMANS here ... not machines.
Somebody gets convinced they're under dire threat
and they'll ACT accordingly. Seeing them act can,
and often does, prompt OTHER people to act the
same way ... a chain-reaction meme, so to speak.
There are probably sound Darwinian reasons for it.
>> Alas we've seen how even our "liberals" aren't keen to
>> abide by even the most Borkian interpretation of "free
>> speech". Remember the infamous "Mohammed film"
>> ... the one Obama and HRC blamed for the whole
>> Benghazi debacle ? They really REALLY tried to find
>> an excuse to arrest the dumb-ass preacher who
>> made it ... and DID manage to intimidate him.
> He became a political prisoner.
a psychological sense, yes. They've put the
gun to his head and he will never feel free to
say what he thinks anymore. Kind of an
Orwell meets Kafka thing ....
Michael Ejercito
Dec 4, 2016, 12:41:46 PM12/4/16
to
"Mr. B1ack" wrote in message
acceptable reaction to the expression of an unpopular opinion.
Michael
Michael Ejercito
Dec 4, 2016, 1:20:16 PM12/4/16
to
On Sun, 4 Dec 2016 09:42:51 -0800, "NOT Michael Ejercito"
You are going to get dragged onto the next banana boat for Manila,
dreckgook!
Michael
--
The joo 'survivors'®™ sing this song
Doo-dah doo-dah
The Auschwitz®™ train track's five miles long
Oh, de doo-dah day
Gwine to cheat all day
Gwine to scam all night
I put my money on the Madoff plan
And the whole thing turned to shite
Oh, the long nosed jewboi and his big black hat
Doo-dah doo-dah
Come to a shithole and they all love that
Oh, de doo-dah day
Gwine to cheat all day
Gwine to scam all night
I put my money on the Madoff plan
And the whole thing turned to shite
The Foreskin Peeler sings this song
Doo-dah doo-dah
Wait for greeking far too long
Oh, de dooh-dah day
Gwine to peel all day
Gwine to suck all night
I put my money in a big Grik bank
And all all I got was shite
dreckgook!
Michael
--
The joo 'survivors'®™ sing this song
Doo-dah doo-dah
The Auschwitz®™ train track's five miles long
Oh, de doo-dah day
Gwine to cheat all day
Gwine to scam all night
I put my money on the Madoff plan
And the whole thing turned to shite
Oh, the long nosed jewboi and his big black hat
Doo-dah doo-dah
Come to a shithole and they all love that
Oh, de doo-dah day
Gwine to cheat all day
Gwine to scam all night
I put my money on the Madoff plan
And the whole thing turned to shite
The Foreskin Peeler sings this song
Doo-dah doo-dah
Wait for greeking far too long
Oh, de dooh-dah day
Gwine to peel all day
Gwine to suck all night
I put my money in a big Grik bank
And all all I got was shite
Michael Ejercito
Dec 4, 2016, 2:31:10 PM12/4/16
to
"Michael Ejercito" wrote in message
news:nfn84cl3lu2nlq9lm...@4ax.com...
>On Sun, 4 Dec 2016 09:42:51 -0800, "NOT Michael Ejercito"
><meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>"Mr. B1ack" wrote in message
>>news:21374cdu9c98c78rc...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Sat, 3 Dec 2016 09:37:40 -0800, "Michael Ejercito"
>>><meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This begs the question. whom do we trust to make such a judgment
>>>> call?
>>
>>> Excellent question .... and an unpopular answer. The
>>> judgement call gets made by "whomever", probably
>>> with mere seconds of consideration. If there's some
>>> large and well known concensus on the issue at hand
>>> then it'll take less than a few seconds.
>>>
>>> Sorry, we're talking HUMANS here ... not machines.
>>> Somebody gets convinced they're under dire threat
>>> and they'll ACT accordingly. Seeing them act can,
>>> and often does, prompt OTHER people to act the
>>> same way ... a chain-reaction meme, so to speak.
>>> There are probably sound Darwinian reasons for it.
>>
>> I do not want us to be dragged across this line, where violence is an
>>acceptable reaction to the expression of an unpopular opinion.
>>
>>
>>Michael
>You are going to get dragged onto the next banana boat for Manila,
>dreckgook!
I note you had nothing of substance to add to the conversation.
Michael
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