Driving Alone On A Provisional Licence - Is It Legal?
Bingo Boy
We have heard that there is a major crack down on people driving alone
on a provisonal licence - but it hasn't been made clear (in my mind at
least) when this will take effect.
Now while I agree in principal to what the minister is trying to do -
I just do not feel that the situation in Ireland is ready for an all
out ban. I mean - it's not as if you can apply for a test and get an
appointment within a week or so. I don't think anyone could complain
if that were the case.
I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know everyone
say's this - but I am an excellent driver. I am a 29 year old male and
I have been driving since I was 17 without ever having crashed. I
don't really want to get into the reason why I believe I failed each
test as I don't think anyone would believe me (well maybe some of you
would <g>)
I will say this about two of them though. I failed one test on the
'four mistakes of the same kind' rule. The rule was leaving sufficient
space while overtaking and/or passing parked cars etc. An excellent
rule and one that should be enforced so to speak. However, I failed
this last test beacuse my 'test examiner' said that I was leaving
excessive space while overtaking parked cars and the test that I
failed before this was beacuse I wasn't leaving *enough* room for
parked cars.
Just to clarify - I allways leave the *same* amount of space when
passing parked cars etc - and that is *one doors width* which my uncle
(a driving instructor) say's is sufficent.
Anyway, I'm not bitching about failing tests here - that's life. What
I am bitching about is that the wait for a driving test is crazy and
if provisional drivers are being forced off the road the very least
the goverment should do is provide a decent and fast turnover of
applictaions for the driving test. I thing four weeks is the maxium
anyone should have to wait. It's the goverment's fault that there are
so many provisonal drivers on the roads in the first place - so why
should they be allowed to penalise people for their failure to handle
the root cause of the situation?
BB
Chesney Christ
>I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know everyone
>say's this - but I am an excellent driver.
What did you fail on ?
>Anyway, I'm not bitching about failing tests here - that's life. What
>I am bitching about is that the wait for a driving test is crazy and
>if provisional drivers are being forced off the road the very least
>the goverment should do is provide a decent and fast turnover of
>applictaions for the driving test.
Yup. That'll be a 1% rise in VAT please. chi-ching...
--
George H.W. Bush, as Presidential Nominee for the Republican party;
1987-AUG-27: "No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as
citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation
under God."
Gav
>Hello all,
>
>We have heard that there is a major crack down on people driving alone
>on a provisonal licence - but it hasn't been made clear (in my mind at
>least) when this will take effect.
As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
major hazard on the Republic's roads.
>Now while I agree in principal to what the minister is trying to do -
>I just do not feel that the situation in Ireland is ready for an all
>out ban.
BFD. Get a qualified driver to accompany you if you really want to
get out an about in a car. It isn't THAT difficult surely - after
all, where are you getting the car from?
> I mean - it's not as if you can apply for a test and get an
>appointment within a week or so. I don't think anyone could complain
>if that were the case.
Look, if you can't pass a driving test you shouldn't be driving a
car without a qualified driver to supervise you. It's as simple as
that.
>I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know everyone
>say's this - but I am an excellent driver.
But of course.
> I am a 29 year old male and
>I have been driving since I was 17 without ever having crashed.
Michael Schumacher watch out.
> I
>don't really want to get into the reason why I believe I failed each
>test as I don't think anyone would believe me (well maybe some of you
>would <g>)
>
>I will say this about two of them though. I failed one test on the
>'four mistakes of the same kind' rule. The rule was leaving sufficient
>space while overtaking and/or passing parked cars etc. An excellent
>rule and one that should be enforced so to speak. However, I failed
>this last test beacuse my 'test examiner' said that I was leaving
>excessive space while overtaking parked cars and the test that I
>failed before this was beacuse I wasn't leaving *enough* room for
>parked cars.
So you drove too close one time, and overcompensated the next time.
>Just to clarify - I allways leave the *same* amount of space when
>passing parked cars etc - and that is *one doors width* which my uncle
>(a driving instructor) say's is sufficent.
And you know that this is the case because you are an excellent
driver who couldn't possibly be affected by your own inability to be
objective.
>Anyway, I'm not bitching about failing tests here - that's life.
Er, you just DID bitch about it.
> What
>I am bitching about is that the wait for a driving test is crazy
Yet you seem to have been able to have (and fail) FIVE. Maybe if
more people were able to pass them first or second attempt there
wouldn't be such a backlog due to inept drivers clogging up the
system.
>and
>if provisional drivers are being forced off the road
No-one is 'forcing provisional drivers off the road' .. you can
drive as much as you like if you get someone who has actually got
enough motoring ability to pass a simple test to accompany you.
> the very least
>the goverment should do is provide a decent and fast turnover of
>applictaions for the driving test. I thing four weeks is the maxium
>anyone should have to wait.
Strange, folks in the North have been able to get by with waits of
up to three months and abolutely no question of being able to drive
alone until qualified. You can always keep phoning and ask for
cancellations - you'll usually get one after a week or two.
> It's the goverment's fault that there are
>so many provisonal drivers on the roads in the first place - so why
>should they be allowed to penalise people for their failure to handle
>the root cause of the situation?
Yup, EVERYTHING is the fault of the government, personal
responsibility wouldn't come into it. Now they actually are trying to
do something about the appalling situation (however belatedly) you are
even complaining about that.
Gav
KateH
> A certain Bingo Boy, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
>
> >I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know everyone
> >say's this - but I am an excellent driver.
>
> What did you fail on ?
Forget that, Brendan. What's his car look like ...........so y'all can stay
outa his way!
Kate(5 times? What...is the test THAT hard?)H
Bingo Boy
> >We have heard that there is a major crack down on people driving alone
> >on a provisonal licence - but it hasn't been made clear (in my mind at
> >least) when this will take effect.
>
> As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
> road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
> major hazard on the Republic's roads.
Some? Yes, but not all.
> >Now while I agree in principal to what the minister is trying to do -
> >I just do not feel that the situation in Ireland is ready for an all
> >out ban.
>
> BFD. Get a qualified driver to accompany you if you really want to
> get out an about in a car. It isn't THAT difficult surely - after
> all, where are you getting the car from?
Where did I get the car from? I bought it of course. I'm 29 years old.
The only person that I know with a 'full licence' is my g/f. She has
her own car and can't drive with me to work each day beacuse she has
her own job.
My g/f passed her test the first time she did it (last year). She had
an excellent instructor - me! Of course she belives that it was her
low cut top which actually allowed her to pass with flying colours :)
> > I mean - it's not as if you can apply for a test and get an
> >appointment within a week or so. I don't think anyone could complain
> >if that were the case.
>
> Look, if you can't pass a driving test you shouldn't be driving a
> car without a qualified driver to supervise you. It's as simple as
> that.
If the situation were ideal - then yes (as I stated allready // "I
argree in principal") of course that's what we all want. I don't think
anyone would agree with a situation were someone at 17 can post away
for a licience and then jump into a car. Nor the crazy way that you
can fail and then drive home.
But (and it's a big 'but'), it isn't an ideal situation. The whole
structure of issuing licences and processing the applications for
driving tests in this country is a complete joke. This problem has
being going on for over 40 years and to try and correct it with a
blanket ban is just going to make a bad situation worse. It should be
introduced over a set period of time.
They tried to correct the situation before with a stupid decision. I
am of course refering to the amensty in the 70's when 125,000 people
were granted 'full driving liciences' without ever having sat a test.
I wonder how many of these people went on to die in car accidents or
at least cause car accidents. These a figures that I would like to
see. Of course we will never be allowed to see such figures as it
would be an embarrassment to the goverment.
> >I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know everyone
> >say's this - but I am an excellent driver.
>
> But of course.
Don't be so sarcastic. If you are not going to belive what I say then
why join the disscussion? I mean what's the point in talking to
someone if all you expect are lies? I am being honest here, okay? I
have no reason to lie. I have failed my driving tests due to idiots
not doing the job correctly.
I know people who passed their tests even though they drove up on the
curve. I know one girl who actually passed her test after she drove
out in front of someone on a roundabout causing them to break hard and
skid. So don't talk to me like I am someone who is not a competent
driver and is just obilivious to the fact that he can't drive.
As it happens I live right beisde one of the driving test centres
(Raheny). We (my g/f and I/ sometimes the odd friend) sit and watch
people arriving for their test and then how they then react to the
news that they have failed/passed. You never know though, untill they
walk back out afterwards. But, you can tell then straight away.
We have seen people even refuse to go back into the test centre with
the instructor - most likly convinced that they have failed. We have
seen people wheel-spin off in a rage. But, the craziest thing of all
is to see people who simply cannot drive - pass the test. This happens
every day - if you wanted (or had the time) you could do some sort of
study by folowing these people. We can only see the first 200 yards of
someones test (usually that's funny enough).
I seen one guy (18 0r 19) mount the kerb and knock over a parked
bicycle - and he still passed when he came back. Hugs and kissed from
his foks confirmed this. I can't really say if the people who seemed
to drive fine in the 200 yards or so deserved to fail or pass as I
obviously have no idea how the rest of there test went. But, to see
people drive off and sway all over the road, mounts kerbs - and yet
still pass - is a nonsense.
> >I failed one test on the
> >'four mistakes of the same kind' rule. The rule was leaving sufficient
> >space while overtaking and/or passing parked cars etc. An excellent
> >rule and one that should be enforced so to speak. However, I failed
> >this last test beacuse my 'test examiner' said that I was leaving
> >excessive space while overtaking parked cars and the test that I
> >failed before this was beacuse I wasn't leaving *enough* room for
> >parked cars.
>
> So you drove too close one time, and overcompensated the next time.
Didn't you read the paragraph below that you catually responded too?
Or are you just one of these people who go around doubting what people
say for the fun of it?
> >Just to clarify - I allways leave the *same* amount of space when
> >passing parked cars etc - and that is *one doors width* which my uncle
> >(a driving instructor) say's is sufficent.
I say it again, shall I? The *SAME* amount of space each an every time
- the length of a car door's width. "Three feet" - is is the advice in
99% of driving guides out there.
> Yet you seem to have been able to have (and fail) FIVE. Maybe if
> more people were able to pass them first or second attempt there
> wouldn't be such a backlog due to inept drivers clogging up the
> system.
The "inept" drivers that you say are out there - are not all on
provisional licences. My father and most people his age never had to
sit a driving test and allowed to drive untested as are all the
100,000 plus of the "amnesty" drivers. Most of the instructors that I
have seen are "inept". Of my five instructors - the youngest was about
62 and actually asked me what a sticker on my dashboard said. I told
him it was a seat belt reminder and he mumbled something about his
glasses.
The whole 'test' is a joke anyway. I have to (illeagly)drive my g/f
anywhere there is a motorway beacuse she is afraid of them.
Provisional licence holders can drive on these - full licenced driver
present or not. Yet, without instruction someone who passes their test
can - even though no one (how could they?) has given them some sort of
instruction. We don't even have an "Emergency Stop" as part of the
driving test. That makes alot of sense!
Can anyone actually answer my question? Is there a date on this new
law? Or it being phased in. I have read all the articles on
Ireland.com and none of them clarify this. It seems to me as if they
aren't too sure themselves. I heard that the minister was on The Late
Late Show on Friday (and apprenetly he didn't make it clear there
either). I missed it but it's repeated tomorrow morning - so I'll
record it and see if he made the situation a little clearer (I hope
so).
BB
ps .. If anyone seen the minister on the show - I'd be interested to
hear what you thought about his comments.
wazza
"Bingo Boy" <bing...@ny.com> wrote in message news:11214541.03020...@posting.google.com...
> gavs_...@mungedup.swissonline.ch.invalid (Gav) wrote:
> > As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
> > road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
> > major hazard on the Republic's roads.
>
> Some? Yes, but not all.
No not all, but the few that consider a driving test an optional extra scare the Jimmy Carter outta me.
> > >Now while I agree in principal to what the minister is trying to do -
> > >I just do not feel that the situation in Ireland is ready for an all
> > >out ban.
Oh, don't worry, the all out ban will have about as much effect as banning smoking on busses and trains (and pubs)
and anyone who can administer a 'biteen of cute hoorism' on the roads will always be welcome in the hearts of us
rogue lovin' Oirish.
> > BFD. Get a qualified driver to accompany you if you really want to
> > get out an about in a car. It isn't THAT difficult surely - after
> > all, where are you getting the car from?
>
> Where did I get the car from? I bought it of course. I'm 29 years old.
> The only person that I know with a 'full licence' is my g/f. She has
> her own car and can't drive with me to work each day beacuse she has
> her own job.
I can't drive, I take the bus, it's that simple really. Obviously that's not always possible, and I'm sure you'll
pass the test eventually. Maybe the ban will focus you mind a bit more. Fact is though, that if the law comes in
to effect and you break it, saying it was inconvienient won't get you far.
To be honest I reckon when you do pass the test, you'll be a better driver than most. People who make small
mistakes and still pass are not going to learn from them, you'll know driving like the back of your hand.
> But (and it's a big 'but'), it isn't an ideal situation. The whole
> structure of issuing licences and processing the applications for
> driving tests in this country is a complete joke. This problem has
> being going on for over 40 years and to try and correct it with a
> blanket ban is just going to make a bad situation worse. It should be
> introduced over a set period of time.
I saw a report on the gogglebox last night about a repeat offender with 51 convictions saying that he shouldn't be
sent to prison because in there he would never be rehabilitated and his drug problem would get worse. His argument,
that prison reform hasn't worked, therefore don't send him to prison, is analogous to yours; don't stop you from
driving because the testing centers can't handle the backlog and need to be reformed. It just doesn't sound right.
People who have been judged not fit to drive shouldn't drive regardless of the external factors.
> > >I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know everyone
> > >say's this - but I am an excellent driver.
> >
> > But of course.
>
> Don't be so sarcastic.
It's Usenet. Good God man, everyones sarcastic!
> I have failed my driving tests due to idiots not doing the job correctly.
I don't doubt that there are incompetent people at the test centres. There are incompetent people in all walks of
life, but for you to stumble upon idiot examiners each of the five times is either exceedingly statistically
unfortunate or a bit of a stretch. It's alright to admit you might have made a few mistakes.
> > Yet you seem to have been able to have (and fail) FIVE. Maybe if
> > more people were able to pass them first or second attempt there
> > wouldn't be such a backlog due to inept drivers clogging up the
> > system.
Maybe the problem then is in the driving instructors? Are the current batch not teaching properly, or maybe the
learners are in too much of a hurry to get to the test that they don't take enough lessons?
Either way, bitching about the backlog is an exercise in futility. If you ask me, it's a good sign that a whole
slew of underqualified drivers aren't being unleashed on the roads.
> The whole 'test' is a joke anyway. I have to (illeagly)drive my g/f
> anywhere there is a motorway beacuse she is afraid of them.
> Provisional licence holders can drive on these - full licenced driver
> present or not. Yet, without instruction someone who passes their test
> can - even though no one (how could they?) has given them some sort of
> instruction. We don't even have an "Emergency Stop" as part of the
> driving test. That makes alot of sense!
Not having parallel parking is also a cardinal sin.
BB, you'll pass it eventually. Sweat it not. In the meantime, accept the fact that the rules are there for a
reason, and that safety should come before convenience.
Besides, when you pass, you'll be the one at the traffic lights f-ing and blinding about the 'f@$%ing learner!' in
front of you.
w
a
z
O Siadhail
>Kate(5 times? What...is the test THAT hard?)H
>
Yes, much harder then the one I took when I came back to the states.
When I took mine I had to do a hill start, parrell park, exectue an emergency
stop, 3 point turn and drive a short distance in reverse using only the mirrors
Though it is getting more like a test here in Virginia. when I went for my cdl
I missed on question on air breaks, had to come back the next day to retake
that portion of the test.
ll Ynot Tsaflebx
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have
come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.
Howard Beale
>
> > >We have heard that there is a major crack down on people driving alone
> > >on a provisonal licence - but it hasn't been made clear (in my mind at
> > >least) when this will take effect.
> >
> > As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
> > road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
> > major hazard on the Republic's roads.
>
> Some? Yes, but not all.
So why bother having a driving test
>
> > >Now while I agree in principal to what the minister is trying to do -
> > >I just do not feel that the situation in Ireland is ready for an all
> > >out ban.
> >
> > BFD. Get a qualified driver to accompany you if you really want to
> > get out an about in a car. It isn't THAT difficult surely - after
> > all, where are you getting the car from?
>
> Where did I get the car from? I bought it of course. I'm 29 years old.
Then you've had 12 years in which to get a full license. Stop whining
> The only person that I know with a 'full licence' is my g/f. She has
> her own car and can't drive with me to work each day beacuse she has
> her own job.
No-one anywhere else in Europe has a problem with this, in fact no-where
else would the people tolerate it. Why should we be any different?
> >
> > Look, if you can't pass a driving test you shouldn't be driving a
> > car without a qualified driver to supervise you. It's as simple as
> > that.
>
> If the situation were ideal - then yes (as I stated allready // "I
> argree in principal") of course that's what we all want. I don't think
> anyone would agree with a situation were someone at 17 can post away
> for a licience and then jump into a car. Nor the crazy way that you
> can fail and then drive home.
>
> But (and it's a big 'but'), it isn't an ideal situation. The whole
> structure of issuing licences and processing the applications for
> driving tests in this country is a complete joke. This problem has
> being going on for over 40 years and to try and correct it with a
> blanket ban is just going to make a bad situation worse. It should be
> introduced over a set period of time.
At a cost of how many lives?
> Most of the instructors that I
> have seen are "inept". Of my five instructors - the youngest was about
> 62 and actually asked me what a sticker on my dashboard said. I told
> him it was a seat belt reminder and he mumbled something about his
> glasses.
Mine used to take me in for a pint, before my lesson. Government and voters'
fault for allowing a situation where any Tom, Dick or Paddy can call
themselves an instructor
>
> The whole 'test' is a joke anyway. I have to (illeagly)drive my g/f
> anywhere there is a motorway beacuse she is afraid of them.
Then she shouldn't be on the road. She's a danger to both herself and the
public at large.
> Provisional licence holders can drive on these - full licenced driver
> present or not. Yet, without instruction someone who passes their test
> can - even though no one (how could they?) has given them some sort of
> instruction. We don't even have an "Emergency Stop" as part of the
> driving test. That makes alot of sense!
Given some of the stuff I've heard about the NCT, this may not be such a bad
idea.
>
> Can anyone actually answer my question? Is there a date on this new
> law? Or it being phased in. I have read all the articles on
> Ireland.com and none of them clarify this. It seems to me as if they
> aren't too sure themselves. I heard that the minister was on The Late
> Late Show on Friday (and apprenetly he didn't make it clear there
> either). I missed it but it's repeated tomorrow morning - so I'll
> record it and see if he made the situation a little clearer (I hope
> so).
I had to laugh at the insurance broker who was illegaly insuring provisional
drivers, who complained that he'd lost his license because he'd let his son
drive his car, illegaly on a provo license
>
> BB
>
> ps .. If anyone seen the minister on the show - I'd be interested to
> hear what you thought about his comments.
Typical political bollocks. Waffling on about how special provisions would
be made for *elderly* drivers and utter shite like that.
As far as I'm concerned, everyone's been warned about the impending
legislation. If you believe the government to be telling the truth, take a
few lessons and pass your test. You've been warned, by the time the
legislation comes, you'll have no excuse.
--
Howard Beale
"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"
wazza
"Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message news:b1oukj$44k$8...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
> I had to laugh at the insurance broker who was illegaly insuring provisional
> drivers, who complained that he'd lost his license because he'd let his son
> drive his car, illegaly on a provo license
You need a license to be provo? When did this come in! (Or are the planning to phase it in gently, so I can still
run around the countryside without a qualified terrorist?)
w
a
z
Gav
>gavs_...@mungedup.swissonline.ch.invalid (Gav) wrote:
>
>> >We have heard that there is a major crack down on people driving alone
>> >on a provisonal licence - but it hasn't been made clear (in my mind at
>> >least) when this will take effect.
>>
>> As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
>> road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
>> major hazard on the Republic's roads.
>
>Some? Yes, but not all.
Then why don't they have a driving license to their name?
>> >Now while I agree in principal to what the minister is trying to do -
>> >I just do not feel that the situation in Ireland is ready for an all
>> >out ban.
>>
>> BFD. Get a qualified driver to accompany you if you really want to
>> get out an about in a car. It isn't THAT difficult surely - after
>> all, where are you getting the car from?
>
>Where did I get the car from? I bought it of course.
Great, you've failed five times to pass a rather simple driving
test and still go out and buy a car. Then you complain when you find
out that using it (without a valid drivers licence) is not going to be
possible.....
[..]
>> Look, if you can't pass a driving test you shouldn't be driving a
>> car without a qualified driver to supervise you. It's as simple as
>> that.
>
>If the situation were ideal - then yes (as I stated allready // "I
>argree in principal") of course that's what we all want. I don't think
>anyone would agree with a situation were someone at 17 can post away
>for a licience and then jump into a car. Nor the crazy way that you
>can fail and then drive home.
>
>But (and it's a big 'but'), it isn't an ideal situation. The whole
>structure of issuing licences and processing the applications for
>driving tests in this country is a complete joke. This problem has
>being going on for over 40 years and to try and correct it with a
>blanket ban is just going to make a bad situation worse. It should be
>introduced over a set period of time.
I think I'm seeing your arguement really crystalising here, to
summarise:
"I haven't been able to get a driving license despite taking the
test five times so I feel that I should be allowed to drive anyway and
it's all someone elses fault that I can't pass the test."
>They tried to correct the situation before with a stupid decision. I
>am of course refering to the amensty in the 70's when 125,000 people
>were granted 'full driving liciences' without ever having sat a test.
>I wonder how many of these people went on to die in car accidents or
>at least cause car accidents. These a figures that I would like to
>see. Of course we will never be allowed to see such figures as it
>would be an embarrassment to the goverment.
That just would show that a lot of these 'unable to pass a simple
driving test' drivers really are a danger. Stop undermining your own
arguement!
[..]
>> >I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know everyone
>> >say's this - but I am an excellent driver.
>>
>> But of course.
>
>Don't be so sarcastic. If you are not going to belive what I say then
>why join the disscussion?
I see - to debate any issues with you I have as a precondition to
believe absolutely all your opinions and claims. Good tactic.
By the way, I have amazing psychic powers that allow me to see
people doing their driving tests, hence my disbelief. If you don't
believe that, don't bother debating the point with me.
>I mean what's the point in talking to
>someone if all you expect are lies? I am being honest here, okay? I
>have no reason to lie. I have failed my driving tests due to idiots
>not doing the job correctly.
Ever heard of a little thing called OBJECTIVITY?
Evidently not.
>I know people who passed their tests even though they drove up on the
>curve.
That's KERB (or curb if you prefer). If you don't know simple
driving terms is it any wonder that you've failed the test five times?
> I know one girl who actually passed her test after she drove
>out in front of someone on a roundabout causing them to break hard and
>skid. So don't talk to me like I am someone who is not a competent
>driver and is just obilivious to the fact that he can't drive.
Wow - you know all these disastrous drivers who really screwed up
their tests and still passed yet at the same time you have failed your
own five times because the examiners are too strict to see your silky
smooth driving skills? You do realise you are running around tying
yourself in knots here, right?
[..]
>We have seen people even refuse to go back into the test centre with
>the instructor - most likly convinced that they have failed. We have
>seen people wheel-spin off in a rage. But, the craziest thing of all
>is to see people who simply cannot drive - pass the test. This happens
>every day - if you wanted (or had the time) you could do some sort of
>study by folowing these people. We can only see the first 200 yards of
>someones test (usually that's funny enough).
>
>I seen one guy (18 0r 19) mount the kerb and knock over a parked
>bicycle - and he still passed when he came back. Hugs and kissed from
>his foks confirmed this. I can't really say if the people who seemed
>to drive fine in the 200 yards or so deserved to fail or pass as I
>obviously have no idea how the rest of there test went. But, to see
>people drive off and sway all over the road, mounts kerbs - and yet
>still pass - is a nonsense.
I see. We've got a load of driving examiners who simultaneously
manage to pass complete driving retardates whilst failing a motoring
prodigy like yourself five times. Life sure sucks when the universe
doesn't recognise your true greatness, eh?
>> >I failed one test on the
>> >'four mistakes of the same kind' rule. The rule was leaving sufficient
>> >space while overtaking and/or passing parked cars etc. An excellent
>> >rule and one that should be enforced so to speak. However, I failed
>> >this last test beacuse my 'test examiner' said that I was leaving
>> >excessive space while overtaking parked cars and the test that I
>> >failed before this was beacuse I wasn't leaving *enough* room for
>> >parked cars.
>>
>> So you drove too close one time, and overcompensated the next time.
>
>Didn't you read the paragraph below that you catually responded too?
>Or are you just one of these people who go around doubting what people
>say for the fun of it?
I seriously doubt your sense of objectivity about your own driving
skills, that's for sure.
>> >Just to clarify - I allways leave the *same* amount of space when
>> >passing parked cars etc - and that is *one doors width* which my uncle
>> >(a driving instructor) say's is sufficent.
>
>I say it again, shall I? The *SAME* amount of space each an every time
>- the length of a car door's width. "Three feet" - is is the advice in
>99% of driving guides out there.
Objectivity - look it up in the dictionary sometime.
[..]
>The whole 'test' is a joke anyway. I have to (illeagly)drive my g/f
>anywhere there is a motorway beacuse she is afraid of them.
>Provisional licence holders can drive on these - full licenced driver
>present or not. Yet, without instruction someone who passes their test
>can - even though no one (how could they?) has given them some sort of
>instruction. We don't even have an "Emergency Stop" as part of the
>driving test. That makes alot of sense!
And you STILL can't pass it? <slaps forehead>
>Can anyone actually answer my question? Is there a date on this new
>law?
It's not a "new law". It was only ever legal to drive alone on the
second provisional. Of course, with any luck they'll have done away
with _all_ unsupervised driving by learners like pretty much all of
Western Europe.
> Or it being phased in. I have read all the articles on
>Ireland.com and none of them clarify this. It seems to me as if they
>aren't too sure themselves. I heard that the minister was on The Late
>Late Show on Friday (and apprenetly he didn't make it clear there
>either). I missed it but it's repeated tomorrow morning - so I'll
>record it and see if he made the situation a little clearer (I hope
>so).
Just do yourself (and the other people on the road) a favour and
learn to drive well enough to pass a test before heading out on your
own in the car. You've already told us stories of people having near
accidents through bad driving and still passing it, and complained
that the test is lax, so really you have no excuse.
Gav
Howard Beale
wazza <wga...@orchestream.com> wrote in message
news:1044382411.982266@lave...
Driving a car without the capability of being able to drive safely, is being
in charge of a weapon of mass destruction
Paul Carr
<snip>
> Anyway, I'm not bitching about failing tests here - that's life. What
> I am bitching about is that the wait for a driving test is crazy and
> if provisional drivers are being forced off the road the very least
> the goverment should do is provide a decent and fast turnover of
> applictaions for the driving test. I thing four weeks is the maxium
> anyone should have to wait. It's the goverment's fault that there are
> so many provisonal drivers on the roads in the first place - so why
> should they be allowed to penalise people for their failure to handle
> the root cause of the situation?
I'm sorry to hear that it is taking you a while to get your full licence.
My advice, during the course of the actual test, is to drive carefully. A
Tester is not looking for a Michael Schumacher. All they are looking for is
proof that you can handle the vehicle confidently and competently. It's all
well and good knowing how to operate the machine but you also have to prove
to the Tester that you can behave properly and safely (both to yourself and
others) whilst you operate the machine.
When it comes to making a decision between erring on the side of caution or
driving in a manner which might cause your tester to conclude you are being
a danger to other traffic (where you are unable to strike the balance), I
suggest you err on the side of caution. Personally, I doubt that a Tester
is going to fail you for going too slow or being too slow turning at a
junction as much as he/she will, no doubt, fail you if you turn into a
junction in a manner which might cause or actually cause other traffic to
swerve to avoid you, or stopping too close behind another vehicle on a road
slopping downhill.
Use your head.
Drive confidently and conpetently - and don't give your tester any frights.
Chances are nearly 100% that he/she has never seen you drive before. When
you get into the vehicle, bear in mind, the tester has no idea just how good
a driver you are. You've got 30 minutes or so to prove that you're good
enough.
Paul Carr
KateH
> Driving a car without the capability of being able to drive safely, is
being
> in charge of a weapon of mass destruction
Only if you drive it into church.
Kate(I had to......)H
Bingo Boy
> > Some? Yes, but not all.
>
> No not all, but the few that consider a driving test an optional extra scare the Jimmy Carter outta me.
Me too actually. I know people who avoid the test and boast about it.
At least I have spent my hard earned applying for the thing - time and
again.
> > > >Now while I agree in principal to what the minister is trying to do -
> > > >I just do not feel that the situation in Ireland is ready for an all
> > > >out ban.
> Oh, don't worry, the all out ban will have about as much effect as banning
> smoking on busses and trains (and pubs)
Pubs will be a tough one. I can't see Old Sissy Malone (this woman
doesn't exsist by the way <g>) telling tow huge farmers not to smoke
in her pum down in the arsehole of nowhere :)
> I can't drive, I take the bus, it's that simple really. Obviously that's not > always possible, and I'm sure you'll
> pass the test eventually. Maybe the ban will focus you mind a bit more. Fact > is though, that if the law comes in
> to effect and you break it, saying it was inconvienient won't get you far.
I have no intention of breaking the law (if it's officialy
implimented) on this one. What with the new points system and the risk
of an insurance company saying that they only insured you on the basis
that you would not break the law. I mean insurance companies will use
any excuse not to pay out. So, if they got wind that you hit another
car while driving with a PL and had no full driving licence holder
present - I imagine they wouldn't miss a beat on not paying out.
> To be honest I reckon when you do pass the test, you'll be a better driver
> than most. People who make small
> mistakes and still pass are not going to learn from them, you'll know driving > like the back of your hand.
I allready do :) I didn't want to get into this - for fear of
recognition - but what the hell. I actually teach a special form of
driving. When I said I was an excellent driver - wasn't just being
bigheaded (well maybe a little <g>). I won't say exactly which type of
driving that I teach or in exactly which arena - but safe to say it's
a ver specific type of driving. The fact that I haven't passed my test
has no bearing on my job however (which is another idiotic situation
in this country).
>> > > >I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know
everyone
> > > >say's this - but I am an excellent driver.
> > >
> > > But of course.
> >
> > Don't be so sarcastic.
>
> It's Usenet. Good God man, everyones sarcastic!
Fair enough :)
> > I have failed my driving tests due to idiots not doing the job correctly.
>
> I don't doubt that there are incompetent people at the test centres.
> There are incompetent people in all walks of
> life, but for you to stumble upon idiot examiners each of the five times is > either exceedingly statistically
> unfortunate or a bit of a stretch.
I'd go for 'statistically unfortunate' on this one. Well actually I
have my own toughts on why I fail my tests. No-one seemed to pick up
on this sentence in my original post. I gave the reasons that the
driver instructors *said* that they fail me. I don't want to share my
thoughts on this - for fear of being labelled paranoid :)
> It's alright to admit you might have made a few mistakes.
Okay, okay - I'm crap .. for the love of God someone teach me how to
drive!
Usenet/Sarcasim .. I'm getting the hang of this :)
> > The whole 'test' is a joke anyway. I have to (illeagly)drive my g/f
> > anywhere there is a motorway beacuse she is afraid of them.
> > Provisional licence holders can drive on these - full licenced driver
> > present or not. Yet, without instruction someone who passes their test
> > can - even though no one (how could they?) has given them some sort of
> > instruction. We don't even have an "Emergency Stop" as part of the
> > driving test. That makes alot of sense!
>
> Not having parallel parking is also a cardinal sin.
That's another one, yes.
> BB, you'll pass it eventually. Sweat it not. In the meantime, accept the fact > that the rules are there for a
> reason, and that safety should come before convenience.
Never!
> Besides, when you pass, you'll be the one at the traffic lights f-ing and
> blinding about the 'f@$%ing learner!' in
> front of you.
I allready do. I hate L drivers. They driver me up the wall. Well not
as much as eldery drivers actually. When they drive 40 mile an hour in
the outside lane on the motorway, drives me nuts. I am driving 12
years now. I have driven all over the country many many times. My pet
hate actually - is people who tail gate on the motorways. That drives
me nuts! Of cousre I make sure that I have a full driving licence
holder with me at all times when I venture on to the M50 :)
> w
> a
> z
BB
Bingo Boy
> > > As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
> > > road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
> > > major hazard on the Republic's roads.
> >
> > Some? Yes, but not all.
>
>
> So why bother having a driving test
So people can get a full driving licence in which they will be a fully
qualified driver to drive on all roads. Or are you another one who is
just being sarcastic? If you read my post I agree that no-one should
be allowed to drive on a provisinal licence. I would go far as to say
that people shouldn't even be able to *learn* on public roads. There
should be a special place where all different road conditions can be
faked so that people can learn with inconvience to the public.
But the horse has allready bolted on this issue. My longest wait for a
test was in Finglas for two full years. I am not alone on this. Others
have it worse than me.
> > Where did I get the car from? I bought it of course. I'm 29 years old.
>
> Then you've had 12 years in which to get a full license. Stop whining
I am not "whining" - allright? As I said "That's life". I was just
explaining my situation when I asked if this law has been implimented
yet. I have read 'The Star' that the minister has said to provisional
drivers 'not to panic' that it's mainily aimed at the new provisonal
licence holders. I then read in 'The Independent' that it was across
the board and would affect *all* PL holders.
> > The only person that I know with a 'full licence' is my g/f. She has
> > her own car and can't drive with me to work each day beacuse she has
> > her own job.
No-one anywhere else in Europe has a problem with this, in fact
no-where
else would the people tolerate it. Why should we be any different?
That's *my* point. No where else in Europe has a country given an
amnesty to PL holders. No where else in europe has the waiting list
reached two years and over as it did in the main Irish test centre
(Finglas) in 1998. The goverment fucked up - and they can't correct it
with an all out ban as it will just lead to disaster. You talked about
accidents. How many of the amnesty drivers casused accidents? How many
of the people which this goverment encouraged to drive on a PL will
end up driving without insurance beacuse of this law? Think about it
for a minute. Insurance companies will not allow PL drivers to get
their own insurance if the goverment say's that it's illegal.
> > > Look, if you can't pass a driving test you shouldn't be driving a
> > > car without a qualified driver to supervise you. It's as simple as
> > > that.
I agree. Don't tell me. Go back in time and tell Charlie Haughy and
all the other cronies who stuffed the offshore accounts when they
could of actually solved a simply problem like this.
> > If the situation were ideal - then yes (as I stated allready // "I
> > argree in principal") of course that's what we all want. I don't think
> > anyone would agree with a situation were someone at 17 can post away
> > for a licience and then jump into a car. Nor the crazy way that you
> > can fail and then drive home.
> >
> > But (and it's a big 'but'), it isn't an ideal situation. The whole
> > structure of issuing licences and processing the applications for
> > driving tests in this country is a complete joke. This problem has
> > being going on for over 40 years and to try and correct it with a
> > blanket ban is just going to make a bad situation worse. It should be
> > introduced over a set period of time.
>
> At a cost of how many lives?
Oh get a grip. Are you another one who belives the bullshit figures
that the minister spouted? Pat Kenny has since said on the radio that
these figures were adjusted with smoke and mirror tactics to fool the
foks at home. PL holders are not the ones causing all the accidents on
the roads.
> > Most of the instructors that I
> > have seen are "inept". Of my five instructors - the youngest was about
> > 62 and actually asked me what a sticker on my dashboard said. I told
> > him it was a seat belt reminder and he mumbled something about his
> > glasses.
>
> Mine used to take me in for a pint, before my lesson.
He encouraged you to drink and drive? Nice, very nice.
> > The whole 'test' is a joke anyway. I have to (illeagly)drive my g/f
> > anywhere there is a motorway beacuse she is afraid of them.
> Then she shouldn't be on the road. She's a danger to both herself and the
> public at large.
I know - and she passed her test with flying colours. If only I had
breasts :)
> > Can anyone actually answer my question? Is there a date on this new
> > law? Or it being phased in. I have read all the articles on
> > Ireland.com and none of them clarify this. It seems to me as if they
> > aren't too sure themselves. I heard that the minister was on The Late
> > Late Show on Friday (and apprenetly he didn't make it clear there
> > either). I missed it but it's repeated tomorrow morning - so I'll
> > record it and see if he made the situation a little clearer (I hope
> > so).
> Typical political bollocks. Waffling on about how special provisions would
> be made for *elderly* drivers and utter shite like that.
I'll set the VCR. Allthough I wish we had Gay Byrne back. It's so hard
to watch P Kenny interview people. I just can't seem to relax watching
this guy. He seems so ..... ahh I can't put my finger on it.
> As far as I'm concerned, everyone's been warned about the impending
> legislation. If you believe the government to be telling the truth, take a
> few lessons and pass your test.
What is it with you. I do not need leesons. I have being driving for
12 years (as you have allready noted). I have no bad habits. I am
competent in all areas of driving (you would laugh if you how much
exactly). I approach my test in exactly the right manner. I believe
the driving test to be allmost like a computer game. You must get
everything correct - speed, observation, recation to hazzards etc etc.
It's not my fault that I am failing. You can either belive this fact
and the accept that it's far from a perfect situation or you can
disbelive me and think that I am an incompetent driver.
If it's the latter - well then please do not respond to my posts - as
I have nothing to say to you. I can only be honest and tell it how it
is. I posted here to ask a question and maybe discuss thoughts on what
others feel about the PL situation - or maybe even about others
experineces with driving tests etc. And, if someone states something
that they feel to be true - I will respect their opinion. You have
every right to your opinion on what you feel the situation should be
with regards to PL's etc - but please don't try and make a liar of me
- it's a waste of your time and mine.
BB
Bingo Boy
> >> >We have heard that there is a major crack down on people driving alone
> >> >on a provisonal licence - but it hasn't been made clear (in my mind at
> >> >least) when this will take effect.
> >>
> >> As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
> >> road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
> >> major hazard on the Republic's roads.
> >
> >Some? Yes, but not all.
>
> Then why don't they have a driving license to their name?
(For some)For the reasons that I have mentioned allready (For Others)
Becasue they haven't bothered to apply, just turned 17 etc etc. And as
I have allready stated - no-one should be allowed to drive with a PL
provided that there is an adequte testing structure implemented first
of course.
> >Where did I get the car from? I bought it of course.
>
> Great, you've failed five times to pass a rather simple driving
> test and still go out and buy a car. Then you complain when you find
> out that using it (without a valid drivers licence) is not going to be
> possible.....
Complain when I find out about the new law? Are you kidding? I and
most ever other PL holder who wants to get a full driving licience has
been complaining for years. I would have no problem with this rule if
I could sit the within two weeks of application.
> >> Look, if you can't pass a driving test you shouldn't be driving a
> >> car without a qualified driver to supervise you. It's as simple as
> >> that.
Yes so you (and I for that matter) keep saying. Now please move on to
my reasons for saying that the rule should be phazed in.
> I think I'm seeing your arguement really crystalising here, to
> summarise:
>
> "I haven't been able to get a driving license despite taking the
> test five times so I feel that I should be allowed to drive anyway and
> it's all someone elses fault that I can't pass the test."
No actually, my argument is:
"This goverment allowed the waiting list for driving test to
become so unbelivabily long that people were waiting years for a test.
They then applied an amnesty which has resulted in God knows how many
deaths. The situation just got worse and worse over the next 20 years
which resulted in the crazy situation where the goverment were
virtually encouraging people to drive on PL licinces while not
addressing the root cause of the problem. Then with the problem at
it's worst and the driving testing centers bursting at the seams -
they then decide to make matters worse by declaring the all the PL
holders can no longer drive unaccompanied. Instead of phazing in such
a plan they have no made the waiting lists impossibe and left people
in crazy situations without warning and all beacause they couldn't
sort out the problem earlier. maybe, even open a few temporary driving
testing centres untill such time as the things settle to a more
managable pace. Of course this would have made sense and required
fore-thought. Neither of which this goverment has a strong record in"
> >They tried to correct the situation before with a stupid decision. I
> >am of course refering to the amensty in the 70's when 125,000 people
> >were granted 'full driving liciences' without ever having sat a test.
> >I wonder how many of these people went on to die in car accidents or
> >at least cause car accidents. These a figures that I would like to
> >see. Of course we will never be allowed to see such figures as it
> >would be an embarrassment to the goverment.
>
> That just would show that a lot of these 'unable to pass a simple
> driving test' drivers really are a danger. Stop undermining your own
> arguement!
I am not. Your just not listening. As I have said - I do not belive
anyone should be driving on public roads with a provisonal licence.
Have you got that? My point (which you seem to be unable to
understand) is that this country has allowed PL holders (hell even
awarded some with full licences)to drive legally on our roads. They
have created a situation where some people (me included) have 10 plus
years driving experience. It's an unnatural situation in Ireland at
the moment and so requires some common sense to sort the problem out.
> >> >I recently failed the driving test for the fifth time. I know everyone
> >> >say's this - but I am an excellent driver.
> >>
> >> But of course.
> >
> >Don't be so sarcastic. If you are not going to belive what I say then
> >why join the disscussion?
>
> I see - to debate any issues with you I have as a precondition to
> believe absolutely all your opinions and claims. Good tactic.
What an idiot. No there is no "precondition to belive absolutely all
of [my] opinions and claims". Is sarcasim your speciality? I hope not.
I started this thread with a question -- Driving Alone On A
Provisional Licence - Is It Legal? -- remember that?
The basis of my question was based on my circumstances - to which I
gave a few details. To challenge me on these details is just
nitpicking - as if you have troble beliving them, then what's the
point of the discussion. Hey, why stop there? maybe I'm not from
Ireland at all. Hell, maybe I don't even own a car.
> Ever heard of a little thing called OBJECTIVITY?
Have you? Look mate, I have no intention of doubting what I (and most
everyone I know) is sure of.
> >I know people who passed their tests even though they drove up on the
> >curve.
>
> That's KERB (or curb if you prefer). If you don't know simple
> driving terms is it any wonder that you've failed the test five times?
No actually it's "curve". If I meant Kerb or or CURB - I would have
used those words as I did in a previous post. A "curve" is what we
have come to call those "invisable" mini-rounabouts here in Raheny.
When I say invisable - it's beacuse they have painted them black for
some reason while painting them white elsewhere. I don't call them a
roundabout as no-one seems to use them as such. So a "curve" is what
we call 'em. Of course before you ask - no I didn't drive over them in
my test - I pretended it was a roundabout even though they are only
four foot wide.If you are still not fimiliar with them - a better
description would be a circuliar smooth speed bump. There are three of
em on our road and I would say 98% of drivers drive right over 'em. So
when I said - "I know people who passed their tests even though they
drove up on the curve" - I meant exactly what I said.
So not only have you suggested that I am lying but now you want have a
go about my choice of words. Have you nothing better to do?
> > I know one girl who actually passed her test after she drove
> >out in front of someone on a roundabout causing them to break hard and
> >skid. So don't talk to me like I am someone who is not a competent
> >driver and is just obilivious to the fact that he can't drive.
>
> Wow - you know all these disastrous drivers who really screwed up
> their tests and still passed yet at the same time you have failed your
> own five times
Yes that's right - so you are paying attention to some paragraphs then
- well done!
> because the examiners are too strict to see your silky
> smooth driving skills?
I wouldn't be complaining if I was failed for showing of my 'silky
driving skills' as it's hardly the place to show off, now is it?
> You do realise you are running around tying
> yourself in knots here, right?
Look, what you get up to when your alone - is your business.
> I see. We've got a load of driving examiners who simultaneously
> manage to pass complete driving retardates whilst failing a motoring
> prodigy like yourself five times. Life sure sucks when the universe
> doesn't recognise your true greatness, eh?
You said it!
> I seriously doubt your sense of objectivity about your own driving
> skills, that's for sure.
Yeah, so you keep saying. Change the record will you.
> >> >Just to clarify - I allways leave the *same* amount of space when
> >> >passing parked cars etc - and that is *one doors width* which my uncle
> >> >(a driving instructor) say's is sufficent.
> >
> >I say it again, shall I? The *SAME* amount of space each an every time
> >- the length of a car door's width. "Three feet" - is is the advice in
> >99% of driving guides out there.
>
> Objectivity - look it up in the dictionary sometime.
Don't need to. I am well aware of what "Objectivity" means - and no
where does it state that the meaning has anything to do with doubting
what you know to be true. I leave the same amount of spave each and
every time I have overtaken/passed a parked car etc. I will not say
this again. If you do not belive this to be the case - fine, just run
along now and try not to think too much.
> >We don't even have an "Emergency Stop" as part of the
> >driving test. That makes alot of sense!
>
> And you STILL can't pass it? <slaps forehead>
Ah, we found the problem. It's this slapping yourself on the head
thing. Sorry I didn't know you had a self-harming problem - my
apologies.
> Gav
BB
Paul Carr
<snip>
> > > The whole 'test' is a joke anyway. I have to (illeagly)drive my g/f
> > > anywhere there is a motorway beacuse she is afraid of them.
>
> > Then she shouldn't be on the road. She's a danger to both herself and
the
> > public at large.
>
> I know - and she passed her test with flying colours. If only I had
> breasts :)
She passed with flying colours because not only did she has a technical
competence in driving the car but also because she drove safely. As I've
said Testers are not looking for a Michael Schumacher. They're looking for
careful driving. Just because there is a 30 mile speed limit, doesn't
necessarily mean you do thirty. You could also be entering an area where
there's a school, marked by flashing amber lights. You don't do thirty in
those situations. Maybe 25 in 3rd gear, provided the road ahead is clear.
Maybe even 20 if it's a bad day and pelting rain. When the Tester gets into
a car with you, he/she has no idea how good a driver you are. You have an
opportunity to demonstrate that you are safe as well as competent.
Paul Carr
wazza
> breasts :)
What was it Billy Connolly once said, 'Breast implants are a great idea, they're just giving them to the wrong
sex... A pair of those and a packet of crips and I'd never leave my bedroom'
or something like that.
On a more serious note, women are statistically more competent drivers, and are therefore more likely to pass their
tests earlier. The nipular region has (or should have) nothing to do with it.
> What is it with you. I do not need leesons. I have being driving for
> 12 years (as you have allready noted). I have no bad habits. I am
> competent in all areas of driving (you would laugh if you how much
> exactly). I approach my test in exactly the right manner. I believe
> the driving test to be allmost like a computer game. You must get
> everything correct - speed, observation, recation to hazzards etc etc.
> It's not my fault that I am failing. You can either belive this fact
> and the accept that it's far from a perfect situation or you can
> disbelive me and think that I am an incompetent driver.
Well if you approach it like a computer game I see where you're going wrong, you get more points for the faster
people when you hit them, always drive up the middle of a street to avoid collisions, and don't forget to steal a
new car once you've shaken the coppers.
w
a
z
westprog++
>
> > >We have heard that there is a major crack down on people driving alone
> > >on a provisonal licence - but it hasn't been made clear (in my mind at
> > >least) when this will take effect.
> > As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
> > road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
> > major hazard on the Republic's roads.
> Some? Yes, but not all.
We have a little bit of a problem then, don't we? If the driving test is
unreliable as a way of determining fitness to drive, how do we choose?
We could do as we do at the moment, and just ignore the driving test, and
let people do as they like. Or we could use the driving test as a starting
point, and insist that at least that standard is reached.
What is the downside of insisting that people pass the driving test? Assume
Mr Boy is telling the exact objective truth. Assume that he is a perfectly
able driver who is mistakenly repeatedly failed, while incompetents are
passed. Mr Boy will be an innocent victim.
But look at the situation as it is. We live in a society where it is normal
to hurl a small child through glass onto concrete at thirty miles an hour.
That child's rights should take preference. The roads should be made safer.
It's to the credit of the politicians that they are actually doing something
about this. Perhaps they will in time get to the stage where the life of an
Irish child is worth as much as an English child.
J/
SOTW: "Requiem" - Mozart
Cat
Shhhheeeessssshhh... The cynicism of it ! Come on, Waz, this chappie has
the perfect answer to all our road carnage problems: self-assessment driving
tests.
Cat(h)
--
[Posted at boards.ie]
http://www.boards.ie/
Ireland's Bulletin Boards, News Groups, Chat Rooms
After Hours - Games - Technology - Work - For Sale
wazza
> Shhhheeeessssshhh... The cynicism of it ! Come on, Waz, this chappie has
> the perfect answer to all our road carnage problems: self-assessment driving
> tests.
> Cat(h)
I tried that once, but found out I had a 2 month waiting list for myself. I can be quite in demand you know.
Cynic? Moi?
w
a
z
Bingo Boy
Hello Paul,
Thanks for one of the few intelligent responses to my post.
> I'm sorry to hear that it is taking you a while to get your full licence.
> My advice, during the course of the actual test, is to drive carefully. A
> Tester is not looking for a Michael Schumacher. All they are looking for is
> proof that you can handle the vehicle confidently and competently. It's all
> well and good knowing how to operate the machine but you also have to prove
> to the Tester that you can behave properly and safely (both to yourself and
> others) whilst you operate the machine.
I totally understand and am aware that if someone was to behave like
Michael Schumacher during a test - they would fail it without any
doubt whatsoever. As I have stated allready, I am a driving tutor of
sorts and it is a running joke amoung the people that I work with -
that I have yet to get a pass on the driving test. I have helped many
people pass the driving test actually (this is not what I mean when I
say that I am a tutor - before someone suggests so).
I have actually learned alot from from my failed driving tests. I have
learned that - to say there is an 'Inconsistency' among 'Driving
examiners' would be a massive understatement. The BBC touched on this
a few years back when they followed people that were doing their
driving tests. Some of these people where actually undercover and made
deliberate mistakes to see what would happen. At the end they
approached some examiners with the recorded evidence that they were
not being consistent with how they judged peole's driving abilites.
One of them actually admitted that he was following a quota of fails
vs passes and that it was out of his hands. They even had three fellow
test examiners re-sit their tests - they *all* failed.
> When it comes to making a decision between erring on the side of caution or
> driving in a manner which might cause your tester to conclude you are being
> a danger to other traffic (where you are unable to strike the balance), I
> suggest you err on the side of caution.
I suggest the same to people who are going for the test - so you can
be assured I follow this advice myself.
It seems to me that so far the people who have responded to my post
feel that if sit the test and drive in a 'perfect' manner that there
is no way that you can fail. Driver test examiners are, in my view, no
different to a jugde in a court of law. Two guys could commit the same
crime, have the same background (ie past offences), have the same
remorse etc etc and yet still receive a totally different sentences'
Hell, the two of them could even be seem by the same judge only weeks
apart. So many factors come into it. The guys mood, wheter he is
predijuce to you for some reason (tatoos, skin colour etc).
> Personally, I doubt that a Tester
> is going to fail you for going too slow or being too slow turning at a
> junction as much as he/she will, no doubt, fail you if you turn into a
> junction in a manner which might cause or actually cause other traffic to
> swerve to avoid you, or stopping too close behind another vehicle on a road
> slopping downhill.
I agree, but - some will and some won't. This is my point. People can
belive me or disbelive me - I don't care either way. I drive the same
way on each and every test. I am meiculous about it. Of course people
will jump in here and say "No wonder you failing then if you fail to
correct your driving". his would of course be totall nonsesne. Look,
this is the last time I will explain this. I am being 100% honest here
and if people can't get their heads around it - so be it.
I have *just* failed the test on four occasions. I have no idea about
the first as back in '91 they didn't go into as much detail as they do
now. Since about '94 or so - it's done on grades and I have all four
sheets. You fail when you incurr: 1 or more Grade 3 faults, 4 of the
same Grade two faults, 6 or more grade two faults.
Each of the four times that I failed I was failed on "exatly 4 of the
same grade two faults". Each and every time. Which basically means
that out of the 120 or so possible faults - I was only ever *failed*
on *one* for each test. And, as I have said - they contradicted each
other. I have two shhets which are both marked with four X's on
"Staionary Vehicles". One is for *not* leaving sufficient clearence
and the other is for leaving too much clearance. I left the same each
time. And, I know people's fingers are dying to post "well maybe you
overcompensated"- I didn't! The area in which i am a driving tutor
requires exact precision - so I know what I am doing.
Yes I failed the test five times - but I didn't fail five times in a
month. I don't think it would be possible to be that unlucky. I *just*
(this is not an opinion - it's fact)failed five differnt driving tests
over a 12 year period. On the latter four test I was failed on the
*four of the same grade two faults* rule with no other X's anywhere
out of approx 120 possible faults. You can make up to 8 grade two
faults without failing - so it's the easist way to fail someone. For
instance they couldn't just say that you made a "Grade 3" fault as it
would be obvious that you didn't make any. Grade one faults don't
count on your result (?) So four little X's on the same fault is the
easist way to fail you - and I bet a million dollors is's the most
common.
I am going to wrap this up now as I feel we are getting no where. I
had started this thread in hope that we could discuss whether or not
people believed that the new rule should be introduced straight away
or over a period of time. It's not up for debate whether or not the
rule should be introduced or not - as it not doubt should. It's
criminal that the situation was allowed to get to such a stage.
I know that when (not if) I pass my test that I will not have changed
my driving one little bit. I am a very competent driver and I am fully
aware of every single rule of the road and what manner you muct drive
in order to pass your test. I did state that i had a fair idea why I
passed (I am not not talking about the reasons given) but no-one
seemed to push me on that one :) However, I did briefly mention it as
one of the possible reasons that one might fail - so maybe some of you
can deduce which one it is.
I have said all there is to say on this matter and I see that there is
still the same nonsense being posted as I speak (not Paul's post).
People still saying suggesting that I failed becuase I can't drive and
that I want people to be allowed to drive on PL's for as long as they
wish. Both complete nonsense of course - and they would know this if
they bothered to read my comments and not just pick out little peices
and respond to them out of context. So I am going to leave it at that.
Thanks to all who responded (even those who questioned what I said to
be true - bite me <g>)
Seriously though, all that I have said is in fact true. If people
think that I am just failing because I am not adressing the things
that I am failed on - they are wrong. IMO (and others) I am failed on
errors that I have not made. These errors, as I have said, actually
contradict each other. So think what you like - it makes no differnce
to me. I know the truth and that's all that matters. From dealing with
the public day in the day, and beacuse of my line of work, I come in
contact with a hell of alot of people who have a keen interest in
driving (otherwise they wouldn't be coming to me) and they tell me of
the family horror stories with regards to the driving test and let me
tell you, my story is not uncommon and neither is the reuslt of
someone being over confiedent in their driving. Now, either all the
people here (and their families) have been extremely lucky or they
just simply aren't being honest. Or maybe it's just a case of 'now
that I passed the test - it means that I am an excellent driver'.
These are the worst kind of fools on the road - I should know I deal
with them - day in, day out.
So long folks and thanks for chatting,
BB
Bingo Boy
> > I know - and she passed her test with flying colours. If only I had
> > breasts :)
>
> She passed with flying colours because not only did she has a technical
> competence in driving the car but also because she drove safely. As I've
> said Testers are not looking for a Michael Schumacher.
I was the one taught her how to drive. What's wrong with you? Do you
really think that I go into the test with an attuide of 'wait till you
see my driving skills .. I'll show you some fancy moves".
> They're looking for
> careful driving.
Yes, we all no that. What's your specilist subject - the bleedin'
obvious. I can't believe that I gave you credit for a previous post. I
am a 29 years old male with 12 years driving experience. I also happen
to teach people who to drive in a a differnt arena to the 'public
roads'. I have failed four driving tests on the bare minium that it
takes to fail. These failures even contradicted each other even though
I approached them the same.
Is it really beyond your comprehension to accept that the system is
not perfect and some people (myself included) slip through the cracks?
Accept it or don't accpet it - but stop speaking to me as I were some
17 year old kid who cannot drive. I am a professional driver actually
- and yes I have the papers to prove it. How can I have professional
qualifications in any area of driving without a full driving licience?
(you might ask). Figure it out for yourself - it's not that hard.
Regards,
BB
wazza
> had started this thread in hope that we could discuss whether or not
> people believed that the new rule should be introduced straight away
> or over a period of time.
Oh yeah, forgot there was a point. Quite unusual I must say.
Personally I think it should come in immediatly, it should always have been there and it's a big failing in the
system. Having a parallel investigation on how to reform the current testing procedure as a whole wouldn't go
astray, either.
When you ask would it be introcuded over a period of time, I'm not sure I understand. Did you mean 'after' a period
of time? ie do you mean that it should be phased in, or that the deadline for the change should be further off in
the future? I can't see how you can phase something like this in, so I assume the latter.
As with all things in Government with the exception of voting themselves pay increases, nothing happens overnight,
so I wouldn't worry too much.
w
a
z
Me again.
Paul Carr offered this gem...
<patronising shite snipped>
> Maybe even 20 if it's a bad day and pelting rain. When the Tester gets into
> a car with you, he/she has no idea how good a driver you are. You have an
> opportunity to demonstrate that you are safe as well as competent.
You've obviously never been done for "failing to make progress" in your
driving test.
I got it on my fourth attempt - should have been second, the senile ould
wanker that I had did me for not stopping completely at a yield sign
(this was in Finglas, where I could see about 2k in both directions and
went around the bend at approx. 2.5 k. the book even says in black and
white you don't have to come to a complete halt if visibility is
sufficient).
When I finally did get it, I took a test down the country (well, Naas,
but anyway) and the town was so clogged up, they could neither have done
me for speeding nor failing to make progress.
Then when I passed it, yer wan had me down for a dangerous fault (what
that was at 4 kph I'll never know, cos I asked her after she had passed
me, and she said she couldn't dicuss it - I mean, I'd passed, I was
genuinely interested for the betterment of my driving and the safety of
the general public, but no, instead I got civil-service speak).
The system is a fucking joke.
Paul...
> Paul Carr
--
plinehan__AT__yahoo__dot__com
I would ask that those replying to this (or any other post on usenet)
please reply *_INLINE_*. It makes replies much easier to read and is
a small courtesy towards those who wish to profit from your insight
and wisdom.
Howard Beale
westprog++ <west...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c7dadbe0.03020...@posting.google.com...
>
> It's to the credit of the politicians that they are actually doing
something
> about this.
Bollocks. They were given an ultimatum by the EU
Howard Beale
>
>
> > > Where did I get the car from? I bought it of course. I'm 29 years old.
> >
> > Then you've had 12 years in which to get a full license. Stop whining
>
> I am not "whining" - allright? As I said "That's life". I was just
> explaining my situation when I asked if this law has been implimented
> yet. I have read 'The Star' that the minister has said to provisional
> drivers 'not to panic' that it's mainily aimed at the new provisonal
> licence holders. I then read in 'The Independent' that it was across
> the board and would affect *all* PL holders.
The minister said over and over again, in the Late Late interview, that he'd
accomodate people.
>
> > > The only person that I know with a 'full licence' is my g/f. She has
> > > her own car and can't drive with me to work each day beacuse she has
> > > her own job.
>
> > No-one anywhere else in Europe has a problem with this, in fact
> > no-where
> > else would the people tolerate it. Why should we be any different?
>
> That's *my* point. No where else in Europe has a country given an
> amnesty to PL holders. No where else in europe has the waiting list
> reached two years and over as it did in the main Irish test centre
> (Finglas) in 1998.
Still no excuse to allow dangerous drivers on the road
> The goverment fucked up - and they can't correct it
> with an all out ban as it will just lead to disaster.
If it happens (which is doubtful) we'll just be in the same boat as everyone
else.
> You talked about
> accidents. How many of the amnesty drivers casused accidents? How many
> of the people which this goverment encouraged to drive on a PL will
> end up driving without insurance beacuse of this law? Think about it
> for a minute. Insurance companies will not allow PL drivers to get
> their own insurance if the goverment say's that it's illegal.
Insurance companies have always insured first time provo holders to drive
illegaly. Their nice little earner is far from just coincidental in this
whole affair
> > > > Look, if you can't pass a driving test you shouldn't be driving
a
> > > > car without a qualified driver to supervise you. It's as simple as
> > > > that.
>
> I agree. Don't tell me. Go back in time and tell Charlie Haughy and
> all the other cronies who stuffed the offshore accounts when they
> could of actually solved a simply problem like this.
That's democracy for you. You can't blame Haughey for bowing to the demands
of the voters
>
> > > If the situation were ideal - then yes (as I stated allready // "I
> > > argree in principal") of course that's what we all want. I don't think
> > > anyone would agree with a situation were someone at 17 can post away
> > > for a licience and then jump into a car. Nor the crazy way that you
> > > can fail and then drive home.
> > >
> > > But (and it's a big 'but'), it isn't an ideal situation. The whole
> > > structure of issuing licences and processing the applications for
> > > driving tests in this country is a complete joke. This problem has
> > > being going on for over 40 years and to try and correct it with a
> > > blanket ban is just going to make a bad situation worse. It should be
> > > introduced over a set period of time.
> >
> > At a cost of how many lives?
>
> Oh get a grip. Are you another one who belives the bullshit figures
> that the minister spouted?
I've never read the figures. I don't care about the figures. I see enough
lunatics driving locally, to know what constitutes a lethal danger on the
roads
> Pat Kenny has since said on the radio that
> these figures were adjusted with smoke and mirror tactics to fool the
> foks at home. PL holders are not the ones causing all the accidents on
> the roads.
Of course they aren't, but they aren't improving the situation.
> > > Most of the instructors that I
> > > have seen are "inept". Of my five instructors - the youngest was about
> > > 62 and actually asked me what a sticker on my dashboard said. I told
> > > him it was a seat belt reminder and he mumbled something about his
> > > glasses.
> >
> > Mine used to take me in for a pint, before my lesson.
>
> He encouraged you to drink and drive? Nice, very nice.
One example of how the system cries out for regulation
> > > The whole 'test' is a joke anyway. I have to (illeagly)drive my g/f
> > > anywhere there is a motorway beacuse she is afraid of them.
>
> > Then she shouldn't be on the road. She's a danger to both herself and
the
> > public at large.
>
> I know - and she passed her test with flying colours. If only I had
> breasts :)
If you actually give a shit about your g/f and safety in general, report the
examiner in question
> > > Can anyone actually answer my question? Is there a date on this new
> > > law? Or it being phased in. I have read all the articles on
> > > Ireland.com and none of them clarify this. It seems to me as if they
> > > aren't too sure themselves. I heard that the minister was on The Late
> > > Late Show on Friday (and apprenetly he didn't make it clear there
> > > either). I missed it but it's repeated tomorrow morning - so I'll
> > > record it and see if he made the situation a little clearer (I hope
> > > so).
> > Typical political bollocks. Waffling on about how special provisions
would
> > be made for *elderly* drivers and utter shite like that.
>
> I'll set the VCR. Allthough I wish we had Gay Byrne back. It's so hard
> to watch P Kenny interview people.
Gay Byrne was an overrated, big headed wanker
> I just can't seem to relax watching
> this guy. He seems so ..... ahh I can't put my finger on it.
Professional?
BTW, when you watch the tape, have a think about the minister's statement
that there are 20,000 truckers on the roads without full licenses. Anyone
know if these drivers are also driving abroad?
> > As far as I'm concerned, everyone's been warned about the impending
> > legislation. If you believe the government to be telling the truth, take
a
> > few lessons and pass your test.
>
> What is it with you. I do not need leesons. I have being driving for
> 12 years (as you have allready noted). I have no bad habits. I am
> competent in all areas of driving (you would laugh if you how much
> exactly). I approach my test in exactly the right manner. I believe
> the driving test to be allmost like a computer game. You must get
> everything correct - speed, observation, recation to hazzards etc etc.
> It's not my fault that I am failing. You can either belive this fact
> and the accept that it's far from a perfect situation or you can
> disbelive me and think that I am an incompetent driver.
I don't believe of disbelieve. I'm speaking as a matter of principal. Your
personal situation is insignificant, other than another demonstration of how
the system is corrupt
Howard Beale
> I didn't want to get into this - for fear of
> recognition - but what the hell. I actually teach a special form of
> driving. When I said I was an excellent driver - wasn't just being
> bigheaded (well maybe a little <g>). I won't say exactly which type of
> driving that I teach or in exactly which arena - but safe to say it's
> a ver specific type of driving. The fact that I haven't passed my test
> has no bearing on my job however (which is another idiotic situation
> in this country).
Talk about the blind, leading the f**king blind
Bingo Boy
> the perfect answer to all our road carnage problems: self-assessment driving
> tests.
> Cat(h)
When did I advocate "self-assessment driving tests"? Can't you read? I
am all for PL holders not being on the road. Actually, if you read my
posts correctly you would see that I don't even believe that people
should be allowed to "learn" to drive on our public roads.
As far as my own failure to pass - as I have said - that's life! I am
hardly of the opinion that people should be able to test themselves.
Of course, I feel you knew this but you were just trying to impress
the other post-er with what you most likely felt was a comical quip -
it wasn't. It just shows your ignorance as I have never, nor have I
suggested, a form of "self-assessment driving tests".
The only things that I advocate is a much shorter waiting list for
people who wish to sit the driving test. I also advocate much more
consistency amoung driver instructors as they obviously don't agree on
certain areas of the test (ie sufficent clearance when overtaking
etc).
If they can manage these two things above - then I have no problem
whatsoever with PL holders not being allowed to drive, or learn to
drive for that matter, on public roads. Of course I have said all this
in previous posts.
BB
Bingo Boy
That's beacuse people ignored my question and started accusing me of
having opinions which I do not (or never did) have.
I wasn't going to bother responding to this thread beacuse of all the
nonsense posts. But, then you ask the following question which is bang
on topic and one which I had expected to be asked straight away.
> When you ask would it be introcuded over a period of time, I'm not sure I
> understand. Did you mean 'after' a period
> of time? ie do you mean that it should be phased in, or that the deadline for > the change should be further off in
> the future? I can't see how you can phase something like this in, so I assume > the latter.
I admit I haven't been consistent on this as I have used the term
"phased in" and also "over a period of time". The reason for this is
that it depends on what support structure the goverment plan to
introduce the rule on (if they have one at all). For instance to have
a plan for the ineveitable influx of applications? If they do then Jan
2004 seems to be fair. People could have no excuse for driving on a PL
if tests were available within four to six weeks.
It's not as if we only have a handful of people driving on PL's. The
situation is unbelivable. Irish drivers are just as drivers in any
country worldwide - so the 200,000 plus PL drivers in Ireland has
nothing to do with bad drivers. We have this situation beacuse of an
inept system. So, I guess if they can't implement some sort of 'plan
of action' to back-up the new rule - then to be honest I can only only
see it making a bad situation worse.
Thanks for asking :)
BB
Howard Beale
Me again.
<pa...@learn.to.swim.was.just.an.angry.response.to.a.billy.wright.lover>
wrote in message
>
> The system is a fucking joke.
I failed for 'obstructing a police car'. Now, that was really a joke
Paul Carr
Hmm, you're a formula one racer? Why don't you tell us?
Anyway. I certainly do think that there needs to be reforms in the area of
driver testing. For example, as I understand it, there are in the region of
115 to 120 testers in the country (7 of whom are women) With the enormous
backlog of applicants for their full driving licences now, I don't think
there are enough testers to deal with this. I suggest there be in the
region of 250 or so, of which 125 will be women. I read somewhere that
women have only a 50% first-time pass rate and men a 54% first-time pass
rate. Yet, men, and in particular, men in the 18 to 25 age category,
followed by men in the 25 to 34 age category, are statistically the most
dangerous road-drivers in the country, the most prone to accidents and
killing other innocent people. So what's going on there?
Also, I think eye sight is a key issue. As I understand it, the UK test
requires the candidate to identify a number place from, I think, 21 metres,
before they even get into their car for the test. We should have something
like that in the Republic of Ireland. Except we should make it 25 metres.
As it stands in the Republic of Ireland, a person requires a preliminary
eye-sight test before he/she gets his/her provisional driving licence.
That's okay. But, I suspect that the guidelines that has been laid down, I
presume, by a (previous) Government, are too lax.
I think people with defective eye-sight, particular in the medium to long
range, are getting into the driving seat of a car, armed with a provisional
licence to drive, when they shouldn't be driving at all with out glasses for
the purpose.
I think this is a serious matter. Think about it. People who can't focus
in the medium to long range, may well acquire the technical competence to
move a car from A to B after a few driving lessons, but their *confidence*
will be impaired because their medium to long distance is blurred. They're
too proud to get glasses, and besides, currently, chances are, legally, they
can get away with it. No matter how many lessons, these people have, their
confidence will be shot. Even if they pass the test, which, hopefully, will
be pretty much unlikely, they are going to become either far too cautious on
the road, and potential hazards to other vehicles, or far too hasty and fast
and dangerous. All arising from a lack of confidence.
As I said, confidence as well as competence is an essential component of
passing the test.
Paul Carr
Bingo Boy
LOL
> I got it on my fourth attempt - should have been second, the senile ould
> wanker that I had did me for not stopping completely at a yield sign
> (this was in Finglas, where I could see about 2k in both directions and
> went around the bend at approx. 2.5 k. the book even says in black and
> white you don't have to come to a complete halt if visibility is
> sufficient).
One of my fails was in Finglas also. My exam examinor on the this
particular day was in a very grump mood and was shouting at someone as
he came out to meet me in the waiting room. He just jumped into my
passenger seat and never even checked to see if my break lights etc
were functioning correctly.
> When I finally did get it, I took a test down the country (well, Naas,
> but anyway) and the town was so clogged up, they could neither have done
> me for speeding nor failing to make progress.
A friend of mine who lives in Navan made sure that he would be stuck
in traffic while doing the test. When he filled out his application he
said he would only be available for a 9am test. It was bumper to
bumper and the test examinor actually apologized for the traffic and
then passed him.
> Then when I passed it, yer wan had me down for a dangerous fault (what
> that was at 4 kph I'll never know, cos I asked her after she had passed
> me, and she said she couldn't dicuss it - I mean, I'd passed, I was
> genuinely interested for the betterment of my driving and the safety of
> the general public, but no, instead I got civil-service speak).
Yes, they are all like this. Because they are not *required* to
discuss the test - (some of them) take this to mean that they must
never discuss the test. You see it's an oppurtunity for them to appear
as some sort of authority figure. Traffic wardens, bus drivers etc etc
- all seem to suffer from this problem. Give them a little power and
it goes straight to their head.
Have you ever seen the movie Fargo? It has a great scene were the main
character drives into a praking lot looking for a car and when it's
not there he tries to drive back out - but the attendent won't let him
back out unless he pays for one hour's worth of parking. I won't tell
you what happens to the little Hitler - in case you haven't seen it.
Excellent flick :)
> The system is a fucking joke.
It is indeed.
BB
Bingo Boy
> something
> > about this.
>
> Bollocks. They were given an ultimatum by the EU
Didn't the EU give us an ultimatum on charging VRT on cars bought
within the EU? I bought a car a few years back and had to pay an extra
25% on VRT. It still worked out cheaper that buying the same car here
though :)
BB
Howard Beale
> > something
> > > about this.
> >
> > Bollocks. They were given an ultimatum by the EU
>
> Didn't the EU give us an ultimatum on charging VRT on cars bought
> within the EU?
Slight difference betweeen financial irregularities, and having one of the
worst road safety records in Europe
> I bought a car a few years back and had to pay an extra
> 25% on VRT. It still worked out cheaper that buying the same car here
> though :)
Car dealers here make far to much profit as well. It's not all tax
Bingo Boy
> > with an all out ban as it will just lead to disaster.
>
> If it happens (which is doubtful) we'll just be in the same boat as everyone
> else.
No we will not be in the same boat as everyone else. Nearly 4% of our
population is driving on a PL. No country in europe has 4% of their
population suddenly wanting a driving test. That is ineffect what will
happen if this rule was passed with immediate effect (which I have
just this past five minutes found out is not the case).
> Insurance companies have always insured first time provo holders to drive
> illegaly.
No they have not. All my insuance certs over the years stated that
payments claims would not be paid out if I broke the law in any way.
They also had a section on the back which stated that all PL holders
(except 2nd) must have a full licence holder present while driving or
the policy would not cover me.
> That's democracy for you. You can't blame Haughey for bowing to the demands
> of the voters
Nonsense!
> I've never read the figures. I don't care about the figures. I see enough
> lunatics driving locally, to know what constitutes a lethal danger on the
> roads
The drivers that frighten me the most are the company reps who
overtake me on narrow roads. Or the reps who overtake trucks at speeds
over 100mph and over.
> If you actually give a shit about your g/f and safety in general, report the
> examiner in question
Are you serious? Report the examiner beacuse he passed my g/f and we
believe that he liked her breasts and that this might have swayed the
result in her favour. Are you for real?
> Gay Byrne was an overrated, big headed wanker
Gay Byrne was an excellent interviewer who had the rare ability to put
his guests at ease. People answered questions from Gay Byrne that the
simply would not have answered elsewhere. He never interupped his
guests (unless they were talking bollox that is). Pat Kenny constantly
interupts his guests. He is all about 'Pat Kenny' and not one bit
interested in who he is interviewing. Your comments on Gay Byrne are
however consistent with all your other views though - all bollox with
little if any basis. Well done.
BB
Bingo Boy
> > recognition - but what the hell. I actually teach a special form of
> > driving. When I said I was an excellent driver - wasn't just being
> > bigheaded (well maybe a little <g>). I won't say exactly which type of
> > driving that I teach or in exactly which arena - but safe to say it's
> > a ver specific type of driving. The fact that I haven't passed my test
> > has no bearing on my job however (which is another idiotic situation
> > in this country).
>
Okay. There is this blind guy walking down the road and he hear's this
female voice - "Excuse me, can you help me .. I'm blind and I need to
get across the road". So the blind guy says "here, take my arm" and
proceeds to lead the lady across the street. "Thank you say's the
blind lady". "No problem at all" said the blind man "would you like to
go for a drink". The blind lady agrees and they walk off into the
sunset.
Happy now?
BB
Howard Beale
> > > with an all out ban as it will just lead to disaster.
> >
> > If it happens (which is doubtful) we'll just be in the same boat as
everyone
> > else.
>
> No we will not be in the same boat as everyone else. Nearly 4% of our
> population is driving on a PL. No country in europe has 4% of their
> population suddenly wanting a driving test. That is ineffect what will
> happen if this rule was passed with immediate effect (which I have
> just this past five minutes found out is not the case).
The goverment has stated that it will bring in testers from NI, to help with
the numbers
>
> > Insurance companies have always insured first time provo holders to
drive
> > illegaly.
>
> No they have not. All my insuance certs over the years stated that
> payments claims would not be paid out if I broke the law in any way.
> They also had a section on the back which stated that all PL holders
> (except 2nd) must have a full licence holder present while driving or
> the policy would not cover me.
I can't comment on you certs, other than to say that the official line of
the insurers is different. Even that bollocks of an insurance broker that
was on the Late Late on Friday, said the same. As have representives of the
industry in previous shows.
Insurance companies are a large part of the problem, but the government
won't stand up to them
> > That's democracy for you. You can't blame Haughey for bowing to the
demands
> > of the voters
>
> Nonsense!
How is it nonsense? The government can't even clamp down on drunk drivers,
without a public outcry
>
> > I've never read the figures. I don't care about the figures. I see
enough
> > lunatics driving locally, to know what constitutes a lethal danger on
the
> > roads
>
> The drivers that frighten me the most are the company reps who
> overtake me on narrow roads. Or the reps who overtake trucks at speeds
> over 100mph and over.
Try living amongst a bunch of eejits who think that it's OK to drink and
drive, that the hard shoulder is there for overtaking and that the maximum
speed limit is really the *minimum* (And I'm not kidding)
> > If you actually give a shit about your g/f and safety in general, report
the
> > examiner in question
>
> Are you serious? Report the examiner beacuse he passed my g/f and we
> believe that he liked her breasts and that this might have swayed the
> result in her favour.
You've just said that she's too nervous to drive on the motorway, therefore
she shouldn't have passed her test. You've said that you and her believe
that she was passed because of her knockers. Firstly, that makes him
corrupt. Secondly, it makes him a possible danger to women.
> Are you for real?
No, I don't exist outside cyberspace
> > Gay Byrne was an overrated, big headed wanker
>
> Gay Byrne was an excellent interviewer who had the rare ability to put
> his guests at ease.
And then stab them in the back
> People answered questions from Gay Byrne that the
> simply would not have answered elsewhere.
Right, because he forced them into it on many occasions, despite having made
prior agreements with them? What was it Jan Leeming called him? A rat, IIRC
> He never interupped his
> guests (unless they were talking bollox that is). Pat Kenny constantly
> interupts his guests.
What, you prefer the soft soap style of the likes of Larry (don't mention my
criminal record) King?
> He is all about 'Pat Kenny' and not one bit
> interested in who he is interviewing.
I know he's crap too, but who else is going to front the show? We're not
really snowed under here with pros.
> Your comments on Gay Byrne are
> however consistent with all your other views though - all bollox with
> little if any basis.
At least I've got a full driving license, unlike some who, despite being
exceptional drivers, can't pass a simple driving test, taken several times,
over 12 years
> Well done.
Thank you
Bingo Boy
The minister was just interviewed on the radio (might have been
recorded from earlier).
First off, he admitted he might "have jumped the gun a little". He
said in hindsight he wouldn't have announced this new rule untill
later in the year. He said he had emergency meetings today with the
Dept of Finance to see if they could hire (?) in Examiners from the UK
asap.
He gave the following figures which I scribbled down:
359,000 people on PL's (higher that I thought - so scratch that 4%
that I talked about - make that 7%)
108,000 people have applied for the test (insane)
31,000 of these have recived a date
He then went on to bullshit a little about waiting times which I know
for a fact are a lie (in fairness maybe he doesn't know the true
figures) He admits that the problem is ten times worse than he had
expected when he first made his comments about an immediate ban. He
also, in fairness, said that the test was outdated and needed looking
at.
The interviewer mentioned that he recived a hard time in thew Dail
today over the situation. I bet Bertie is happy though. What's 108,000
by 40 euros?
BB
Gav
> > >> As soon as possible, hopefully. Provisional drivers who are on the
> > >> road on their own despite their inability to pass a driving test are a
> > >> major hazard on the Republic's roads.
> > >
> > >Some? Yes, but not all.
> >
> > Then why don't they have a driving license to their name?
>
> (For some)For the reasons that I have mentioned allready (For Others)
> Becasue they haven't bothered to apply, just turned 17 etc etc. And as
> I have allready stated - no-one should be allowed to drive with a PL
> provided that there is an adequte testing structure implemented first
> of course.
I have to wonder if you'd be taking this stance if YOU actually had
managed to get a proper driving license in your 12 years of driving
without one.
That's the real bottom line, isn't it? You agree in principle that
it's all very well that you should pass a driving test to drive
unaccompanied but since you haven't managed to do so, we should just
let things continue as they are (law left largely unenforced) until
such time as things suit you.
> > >Where did I get the car from? I bought it of course.
> >
> > Great, you've failed five times to pass a rather simple driving
> > test and still go out and buy a car. Then you complain when you find
> > out that using it (without a valid drivers licence) is not going to be
> > possible.....
>
> Complain when I find out about the new law? Are you kidding?
The restrictions about driving with a provisional license aren't
new. It's just that the government have finally decided to crack down
on their enforcement.
If you'd actually BOTHERED to aquaint yourself with the laws before
you got in your car and started ILLEGALLY driving you might have
noticed this. The fact that twelve years later it apparently comes as
a complete surprise to you to find out that you shouldn't be driving
alone on your provisional license says it all.
> I and
> most ever other PL holder who wants to get a full driving licience has
> been complaining for years. I would have no problem with this rule if
> I could sit the within two weeks of application.
What a load of whiney rubbish. If you were able to pass a driving
test it shouldn't matter whether it takes two weeks or two months to
get one after application - YOU'VE HAD TWELVE YEARS OF DRIVING AND
FIVE ATTEMPTS and you still haven't managed to pass the test, despite
claiming that people who have had near-accidents whilst doing the test
managed to pass it.
Stop blaming everyone else and make an objective consideration of
the fact that the fault might be that you are just a crap driver.
You can whine all you like about the fact the YOU THINK you are a
great driver. The OBJECTIVE FACTS are that you failed five times in
an assessment of your driving skill. No amount of bitching about how
the system must be so screwed up that they somehow missed noticing
your fantastic abilities changes that.
> > >> Look, if you can't pass a driving test you shouldn't be driving a
> > >> car without a qualified driver to supervise you. It's as simple as
> > >> that.
>
> Yes so you (and I for that matter) keep saying. Now please move on to
> my reasons for saying that the rule should be phazed in.
Your reasons being that basically YOU haven't been able to get a
full license so you think the law should be implemented in such a way
as to suit your personal situation. Because of course, you are a
great driver who just happens to have been wronged (for twelve years)
by an evil and inadequate system.
> > I think I'm seeing your arguement really crystalising here, to
> > summarise:
> >
> > "I haven't been able to get a driving license despite taking the
> > test five times so I feel that I should be allowed to drive anyway and
> > it's all someone elses fault that I can't pass the test."
>
> No actually, my argument is:
>
> "This goverment allowed the waiting list for driving test to
> become so unbelivabily long that people were waiting years for a test.
> They then applied an amnesty which has resulted in God knows how many
> deaths.
Which basically proves what a stupid idea it is to let people drive
unaccompanied until they have passed a driving test......
You know, I don't give a crap that it doesn't suit your personal
situation for this rule to be enforced. Your whole stance boils down
to a selfish 'I want rules bent to suit me' position and I have no
time for it. It's that sort of rubbish which has lead to Ireland
being so screwed up in so many areas. Politicians let things slide to
avoid upsetting voters and then eventually have to do something really
major to fix the situation because the public abuses the latitude they
have been given by lax enforcement.
> The situation just got worse and worse over the next 20 years
> which resulted in the crazy situation where the goverment were
> virtually encouraging people to drive on PL licinces while not
> addressing the root cause of the problem.
Of course, a responsible driver would have looked at the law and
refrained from driving unaccompanied. Instead we get whining that by
not being tougher in enforcing the law, you were somehow encouraged to
break it.
That's right - it isn't for you to obey the laws that are there and
act reasonably and responsibly, it's for the government to _make_ you
do it or else they are practically responsible for YOUR foolishness!
Of course, when they DO finally enforce the law strictly you whine
that it doesn't suit you and you want them to keep letting it
slide.....presumably until such time as you finally manage to pass a
driving test.
Un-fecking-believable!
> Then with the problem at
> it's worst and the driving testing centers bursting at the seams -
> they then decide to make matters worse by declaring the all the PL
> holders can no longer drive unaccompanied. Instead of phazing in such
> a plan they have no made the waiting lists impossibe and left people
> in crazy situations without warning and all beacause they couldn't
> sort out the problem earlier. maybe, even open a few temporary driving
> testing centres untill such time as the things settle to a more
> managable pace. Of course this would have made sense and required
> fore-thought. Neither of which this goverment has a strong record in"
The reason that crap like this happens is because people like YOU
want the rules bent to suit themselves and successive governments have
let it ride because in Ireland no politician wants to rock the
electoral boat.
Now that the situation on the roads has hit real crisis point the
government is FORCED to finally act to stop dangerous license-less
fools like yourself turning the roads into death traps.
I really haven't got any time to address the rest of your rambling
post. The bottom line is that you want exceptions made to suit your
personal situation and you hold an exaggerated sense of your driving
ability which isn't supported by objective facts.
Too bad - you should have got that driving license in the twelve
years that you've had. The sooner that you're off the road (until you
can objectively prove your ability to drive a car safely) the better
for everyone.
Gav
Howard Beale
>
> The minister was just interviewed on the radio (might have been
> recorded from earlier).
>
> First off, he admitted he might "have jumped the gun a little". He
> said in hindsight he wouldn't have announced this new rule untill
> later in the year.
Pandering to the mob, in other words
> He said he had emergency meetings today with the
> Dept of Finance to see if they could hire (?) in Examiners from the UK
> asap.
>
> He gave the following figures which I scribbled down:
>
> 359,000 people on PL's (higher that I thought - so scratch that 4%
> that I talked about - make that 7%)
That doesn't sound right. How many full licese holders are there?
> 108,000 people have applied for the test (insane)
That's what happens when you close the mental hospitals. The UK should have
learned from the US experience as we should, after the UK's
> 31,000 of these have recived a date
Not bad, it sounds an improvment of hospital waiting lists
> He then went on to bullshit a little
Only a little? This is a politician we're talking about
> about waiting times which I know
> for a fact are a lie (in fairness maybe he doesn't know the true
> figures) He admits that the problem is ten times worse than he had
> expected when he first made his comments about an immediate ban.
The he should resign. He's obviously not fit for office (then again, who is
in the party)
> He also, in fairness, said that the test was outdated and needed looking
> at.
Did he also mention that the sky was blue?
>
> The interviewer mentioned that he recived a hard time in thew Dail
> today over the situation. I bet Bertie is happy though.
Wouldn't you be, if you were in Portugal again?
Bingo Boy
> The goverment has stated that it will bring in testers from NI, to help with
> the numbers
Oh they might acquire the services of say 20 or so - but I don't
belive for one second that they will come close to acquiring the
numbers of new examiners that they will need to accomadate 109,000
applicants. So this means little if any thought went into this
decision.
Actually the minister agrees with me on this - as his speech in the
dail yesterday and his Late Late apperance (which I hae now seen)
confirmed. He regrets having made his speech in December and belives
that the Guards were wrong in prosecuting PL drivers so soon. He has
now stated that he will indeed phase in the new (much needed) rule.
> > Are you serious? Report the examiner beacuse he passed my g/f and we
> > believe that he liked her breasts and that this might have swayed the
> > result in her favour.
>
>
> You've just said that she's too nervous to drive on the motorway, therefore
> she shouldn't have passed her test.
And how exactly is the examiner supposed to judge whether she is
capable or incapable of driving on motorways in order to pass or fail
her? A crystal ball prehaps?
> > Are you for real?
>
> No, I don't exist outside cyberspace
I didn't ask you if you were *real* - I asked if you were "for real".
Have you never come across this expression before? Let me put it
another way so as you can understand what I was getting at. Are you
being serious when you make such nonsensical comments?
> > > Gay Byrne was an overrated, big headed wanker
> >
> > Gay Byrne was an excellent interviewer who had the rare ability to put
> > his guests at ease.
>
> And then stab them in the back
Now if I had your mentality (the cyberspace quip) - I could say 'I
didn't know Gay Bynre stabbed one of his guests in the back, did they
surrive? was he charged?" Of course I won't because I understand what
you imply when you said that he could (and did?) 'stab' some of his
guests in the back. I know who you mean here, and I think the deserved
it.
> > People answered questions from Gay Byrne that the
> > simply would not have answered elsewhere.
>
> Right, because he forced them into it on many occasions, despite having made
> prior agreements with them? What was it Jan Leeming called him? A rat, IIRC
That's his job. He is (was) there to please his audience - not his
guests.
> What, you prefer the soft soap style of the likes of Larry (don't mention my
> criminal record) King?
Eh, now your not making sense (were you ever?). You implied that I
liked Gay Byrne despite him not being 'honest' to his guests prior
demands and then you twist it and say that I like the soft soap style
of the likes of Larry King. Are you for rea ..... ahh forget it.
> I know he's crap too, but who else is going to front the show? We're not
> really snowed under here with pros.
Ireland has lots of pros ... however they usually end up in the UK as
no in RTE couldn't spot talent if they were surronded by it. Look at
the idiots that they do give jobs too. That Moncrief guy even had his
own 'prime time' show. What was that all about?
> > Your comments on Gay Byrne are
> > however consistent with all your other views though - all bollox with
> > little if any basis.
>
>
> At least I've got a full driving license, unlike some who, despite being
> exceptional drivers, can't pass a simple driving test, taken several times,
> over 12 years.
<Whiney voice> "At least I've got a full driving license, unlike some
..."
Grow up you fool!
BB
Howard Beale
>
> > The goverment has stated that it will bring in testers from NI, to help
with
> > the numbers
>
> Oh they might acquire the services of say 20 or so - but I don't
> belive for one second that they will come close to acquiring the
> numbers of new examiners that they will need to accomadate 109,000
> applicants. So this means little if any thought went into this
> decision.
>
> Actually the minister agrees with me on this - as his speech in the
> dail yesterday and his Late Late apperance (which I hae now seen)
> confirmed. He regrets having made his speech in December and belives
> that the Guards were wrong in prosecuting PL drivers so soon.
Wrong to prosecute people breaking the law? Jesus H f**king Christ
> He has
> now stated that he will indeed phase in the new (much needed) rule.
Which I have little doubt, was his original intention
>
> > > Are you serious? Report the examiner beacuse he passed my g/f and we
> > > believe that he liked her breasts and that this might have swayed the
> > > result in her favour.
> >
> >
> > You've just said that she's too nervous to drive on the motorway,
therefore
> > she shouldn't have passed her test.
>
> And how exactly is the examiner supposed to judge whether she is
> capable or incapable of driving on motorways in order to pass or fail
> her? A crystal ball prehaps?
By using his experience, the experience that presumably got him the job in
the first place
>
> > > Are you for real?
> >
> > No, I don't exist outside cyberspace
>
> I didn't ask you if you were *real* - I asked if you were "for real".
> Have you never come across this expression before? Let me put it
> another way so as you can understand what I was getting at. Are you
> being serious when you make such nonsensical comments?
Yes, I am. By taking such action, you could really shake hings up and make a
difference
>
> > > > Gay Byrne was an overrated, big headed wanker
> > >
> > > Gay Byrne was an excellent interviewer who had the rare ability to put
> > > his guests at ease.
> >
> > And then stab them in the back
>
> Now if I had your mentality (the cyberspace quip) - I could say 'I
> didn't know Gay Bynre stabbed one of his guests in the back, did they
> surrive? was he charged?" Of course I won't because I understand what
> you imply when you said that he could (and did?) 'stab' some of his
> guests in the back. I know who you mean here, and I think the deserved
> it.
I was thinking primeraly of Peter Brooks
>
> > > People answered questions from Gay Byrne that the
> > > simply would not have answered elsewhere.
> >
> > Right, because he forced them into it on many occasions, despite having
made
> > prior agreements with them? What was it Jan Leeming called him? A rat,
IIRC
>
> That's his job. He is (was) there to please his audience - not his
> guests.
There are fundamental rules, regarding live interviews. Byrne considered
himself above them. He then went to the States and made a total arse of
himself
> > What, you prefer the soft soap style of the likes of Larry (don't
mention my
> > criminal record) King?
>
> Eh, now your not making sense (were you ever?). You implied that I
> liked Gay Byrne despite him not being 'honest' to his guests prior
> demands and then you twist it and say that I like the soft soap style
> of the likes of Larry King. Are you for rea ..... ahh forget it.
I thought you were on about Kenny..
> > I know he's crap too, but who else is going to front the show? We're not
> > really snowed under here with pros.
>
> Ireland has lots of pros ... however they usually end up in the UK as
> no in RTE couldn't spot talent if they were surronded by it. Look at
> the idiots that they do give jobs too. That Moncrief guy even had his
> own 'prime time' show. What was that all about?
Exactly my point. RTE is being fronted by a bunch of amateurs. The perfect
host for the Late Late would have been Wogan, of course. Pity he's getting
past his sell by date.
>
> > > Your comments on Gay Byrne are
> > > however consistent with all your other views though - all bollox with
> > > little if any basis.
> >
> >
> > At least I've got a full driving license, unlike some who, despite being
> > exceptional drivers, can't pass a simple driving test, taken several
times,
> > over 12 years.
>
> <Whiney voice> "At least I've got a full driving license, unlike some
> ..."
>
> Grow up you fool!
I think that should be my line
Bingo Boy
> I have to wonder if you'd be taking this stance if YOU actually had
> managed to get a proper driving license in your 12 years of driving
> without one.
Well wonder no more - I would of course be taking the same stand as it
affects more that just those on PL's. Parents with their
sons/daughters on PL's for example.
> That's the real bottom line, isn't it?
No.
> You agree in principle that
> it's all very well that you should pass a driving test to drive
> unaccompanied but since you haven't managed to do so. > we should just
> let things continue as they are (law left largely unenforced) until
> such time as things suit you.
Still not reading my posts correctly I see. No I do not have this
point of view beacuse I have a PL and have so far failed the test. I
have stated in this thread that if the waiting times were down to at
least six weeks - I would have no problem with the law being brought
in ten years ago - let alone now. Please read my comments before
putting words in my mouth.
You come from the "I'm allright Jack .. " standpoint while I come from
the 'commonsense' standpoint. You are quite happy to sit back while
309,000 people wait to get tested by 250 examiners. That makes alot of
sense doesn't it? Look, even the minister doesn't agree with you as he
has since said that this problem is beacuse of politicians and that he
was *wrong* to try and implement the rule straight away. Of course, he
also saidc that he was misunderstood and that the gaurds (and one
particular judge) jumped the gun a little.
> If you'd actually BOTHERED to aquaint yourself with the laws before
> you got in your car and started ILLEGALLY driving you might have
> noticed this. The fact that twelve years later it apparently comes as
> a complete surprise to you to find out that you shouldn't be driving
> alone on your provisional license says it all.
You are wrong. These new rules that are bieng implemented are
differnet to the old ones. For starters the second provesional licence
holder will no longer be allowed to drive alone (why should they if
the situation was correct - ie short waiting lists). Two penelty
points will be issued as will possible disqualification. The law
before was a max 50 quid fine in a discreet court for a first offence.
The whole uproar started beacuse of the Insurance broker who was
disqualified for aiding and abetting (took a shot at that spelling
<g>) his son. So people aren't getting annoyed just beacuse there;s
morew notice be paid to a new law. It's a much bigger issue than that.
> > I and
> > most ever other PL holder who wants to get a full driving licience has
> > been complaining for years. I would have no problem with this rule if
> > I could sit the within two weeks of application.
>
> What a load of whiney rubbish.
It's not rubbish - but thanks for resonding to a pragraph which
actually contradicts and opinion that you accused me of having in the
start of this post. Just goes to show that you aware of my views yet
you choose to ignore them when it suits you.
> If you were able to pass a driving
> test it shouldn't matter whether it takes two weeks or two months to
> get one after application - YOU'VE HAD TWELVE YEARS OF DRIVING ..
So?
> AND
> FIVE ATTEMPTS and you still haven't managed to pass the test
That's correct.
> despite
> claiming that people who have had near-accidents whilst doing the test
> managed to pass it.
Also correct. See how inconsistent the test is and how it's pot-luck
on which old todger that you get.
> Stop blaming everyone else and make an objective consideration of
> the fact that the fault might be that you are just a crap driver.
I am not a crap driver. I have driven over 150,000 miles over the past
12 years and I have never been invloved in an accident, nor being
cautioned once by a guard, no speeding tickets etc. I qualified in
1993 as a driving instructor in a different arena. I have won awards
for my driving skills and have even being written about in the Irish
Independent - which incidently mentioned the fact that I have a
provsional licence and must drive on the public roads with a fully
qualified driver. This fact was very much the centre peice of the
article as it is quite ironic considering my job.
> Your reasons being that basically YOU haven't been able to get a
> full license so you think the law should be implemented in such a way
> as to suit your personal situation.
Here we go again. You start of the thread with this point (which I
pointed out was incorrect). You then respond to a paragraph where I
re-stated that this was not my point of you and here you are again
saying the same thing.
> You know, I don't give a crap that it doesn't suit your personal
> situation for this rule to be enforced. Your whole stance boils down
> to a selfish 'I want rules bent to suit me' position and I have no
> time for it.
Ahem! Ahem! Does the figure 309,000 mean anything to you? Hardly "my
personal situation".
> Of course, when they DO finally enforce the law strictly you whine
> that it doesn't suit you and you want them to keep letting it
> slide.....presumably until such time as you finally manage to pass a
> driving test.
No, for the last time - untill such time as there is not 250 examiners
per 309,000 applicants. Listen we will have to disagree on this - you
can't see my point of view and think yours lack commonsense. You have
accused me time and again of having opinions that I do not have. So,
reply to my posts if you wish - just do so in the knowledge that I
will not be reading it, let alone respond to it.
BB
Howard Beale
>
> I am not a crap driver.
That all?
> I have driven over 150,000 miles over the past
> 12 years and I have never been invloved in an accident, nor being
> cautioned once by a guard, no speeding tickets etc. I qualified in
> 1993 as a driving instructor in a different arena.
Please god, not a flying instructor
> I have won awards
> for my driving skills and have even being written about in the Irish
> Independent - which incidently mentioned the fact that I have a
> provsional licence and must drive on the public roads with a fully
> qualified driver.
Did you get a big fine?
(sorry, couldn't resist)
Gav
>gavs_...@swissonline.ch (Gav) wrote:
>
>> I have to wonder if you'd be taking this stance if YOU actually had
>> managed to get a proper driving license in your 12 years of driving
>> without one.
>
>Well wonder no more - I would of course be taking the same stand as it
>affects more that just those on PL's. Parents with their
>sons/daughters on PL's for example.
Why _sure_ you'd have the same position if you actually had managed
to get a license - it's just the same as the 'fact' that you are
really a great driver despite 12 years and five driving test's worth
of failure to objectively prove it.
>> That's the real bottom line, isn't it?
>
>No.
>
>> You agree in principle that
>> it's all very well that you should pass a driving test to drive
>> unaccompanied but since you haven't managed to do so. > we should just
>> let things continue as they are (law left largely unenforced) until
>> such time as things suit you.
>
>Still not reading my posts correctly I see. No I do not have this
>point of view beacuse I have a PL and have so far failed the test. I
>have stated in this thread that if the waiting times were down to at
>least six weeks - I would have no problem with the law being brought
>in ten years ago - let alone now. Please read my comments before
>putting words in my mouth.
Let's see - you've been driving for TWELVE years without a full
driving license and only managed to take (and fail) FIVE tests in
that time. So waits must be something in the order of two and a half
years then.....?
>You come from the "I'm allright Jack .. " standpoint while I come from
>the 'commonsense' standpoint.
Nope, I'm coming from the "It's insane to let people who can't even
pass a fecking driving test (which is supposedly piss easy according
to you anyway) drive cars unaccompanied".
If as a result of implementing the law it means YOU find yourself
inconvenienced - too fecking bad. No-one here is going to give much
of a shit about it so take your whining somewhere else.
> You are quite happy to sit back while
>309,000 people wait to get tested by 250 examiners. That makes alot of
>sense doesn't it?
It makes a lot more sense than allowing over three hundred thousand
people who are unable to prove their competance to drive a car on the
roads on their own.
As usual, money will have to be thrown at the problem because
politicians have caved in to whiners like you and let it slide so
long. Of course, the moment they do something about it, you're
whining because it impinges on YOU.
You've had TWELVE YEARS to get a license. If you haven't got one
by now you deserve to wait as long as it takes for the system to get
around to you.
> Look, even the minister doesn't agree with you as he
>has since said that this problem is beacuse of politicians and that he
>was *wrong* to try and implement the rule straight away. Of course, he
>also saidc that he was misunderstood and that the gaurds (and one
>particular judge) jumped the gun a little.
Good old Irish politics, eh? It was precisely this sort of attitude
that lead to this problem in the first place. Whether it suits your
personal situation or not, it's going to have to be tackled. If as
looks likely the minister gives into the morons who have abused lax
law enforcement to drive around without passing a test it's pretty
clear that the problem will only intensify.
It has to be tackled sooner rather than later and it clearly is long
overdue, but backing down like this is just going to make things
worse.
>> If you'd actually BOTHERED to aquaint yourself with the laws before
>> you got in your car and started ILLEGALLY driving you might have
>> noticed this. The fact that twelve years later it apparently comes as
>> a complete surprise to you to find out that you shouldn't be driving
>> alone on your provisional license says it all.
>
>You are wrong. These new rules that are bieng implemented are
>differnet to the old ones. For starters the second provesional licence
>holder will no longer be allowed to drive alone
Great! That's what I was hoping.
> (why should they if
>the situation was correct - ie short waiting lists).
Why should they, period.
>Two penelty
>points will be issued as will possible disqualification. The law
>before was a max 50 quid fine in a discreet court for a first offence.
>The whole uproar started beacuse of the Insurance broker who was
>disqualified for aiding and abetting (took a shot at that spelling
><g>) his son. So people aren't getting annoyed just beacuse there;s
>morew notice be paid to a new law. It's a much bigger issue than that.
>
>> > I and
>> > most ever other PL holder who wants to get a full driving licience has
>> > been complaining for years. I would have no problem with this rule if
>> > I could sit the within two weeks of application.
>>
>> What a load of whiney rubbish.
>
>It's not rubbish - but thanks for resonding to a pragraph which
>actually contradicts and opinion that you accused me of having in the
>start of this post. Just goes to show that you aware of my views yet
>you choose to ignore them when it suits you.
You're full of 'if's and buts', aren't you. When will you stop
making excuses that you've illegally driven around for over a decade
and singularly failed to get a license in that time?
>> If you were able to pass a driving
>> test it shouldn't matter whether it takes two weeks or two months to
>> get one after application - YOU'VE HAD TWELVE YEARS OF DRIVING ..
>
>So?
So, you're crying about not having enough time to get a license (as
just above) whilst in fact YOU'VE HAD TWELVE YEARS TO GET THE DAMN
THING. But wait, if only the waiting time was two weeks then all
would be OK. You really are unbelievable.
>> AND
>> FIVE ATTEMPTS and you still haven't managed to pass the test
>
>That's correct.
Which is rather at odds with your claim to be a good driver, isn't
it?
>
>> despite
>> claiming that people who have had near-accidents whilst doing the test
>> managed to pass it.
>
>Also correct. See how inconsistent the test is and how it's pot-luck
>on which old todger that you get.
Right, lets see what we've ascertained in the thread so far:
You claim to be a great driver, even though the objective data (five
driving test failures) says you aren't....
Although your great driving skills aren't recognised by the
examiners, they are so inept that they freely give passes to people
who all but have accidents during the test....
Anyone who doesn't believe you in your claims shouldn't argue with
you.
You'd be alright with the enforcement of the law if only there were
short waiting times for tests , yet you've personally had twelve years
of time to get the license yourself and failed.
I originally thought you were a brilliant troll, but following the
thread it's clear that you are a complete raving idiot.
Gav
Howard Beale
Gav <gavs_...@mungedup.swissonline.ch.invalid> wrote in message
news:3e429e86...@news.swissonline.ch...
> >
> You've had TWELVE YEARS to get a license. If you haven't got one
> by now you deserve to wait as long as it takes for the system to get
> around to you.
That's nothing. On the Late Late, the minister said provision would be made
for *pensioners* who are still on provisionals
Bingo Boy
> > He regrets having made his speech in December and belives
> > that the Guards were wrong in prosecuting PL drivers so soon.
>
> Wrong to prosecute people breaking the law? Jesus H f**king Christ
He was refering to the guy who was suspended from driving for a year
and who's father was also suspended for a year. He insists that they
were not supposed to be such a crack down untill his full support
system was in place. Of course this actually contradicts what he said
later in the interview - and that was that he underestimated the
amount of people on PL's. Now if he underestimated the amount why the
need for a support system to accomodate vast numbers of applicants?
He has an awful habit of responding to a question with: yes, yes,
sure, sure ... and then going on to talk about something else. Pat
(Plank as Mr Dunphy would say <g>) Kenny asked him the Guards were
supposed to know when he wanted them to get tough on the PL's - his
response was: "yeah, yes, sure, sure .. we won't be trowing anyone of
the street as of yet". Pat then asked him how the Guards were supposed
to know who the minister wants to prosecute and who is allright to
drive for a while. Again he responds: "Sure, yeah, yeah .. we will
make it clear that some people will be fine for a while .. " He sure
is a slippery one - I'll give him that :)
>> > And how exactly is the examiner supposed to judge whether she is
> > capable or incapable of driving on motorways in order to pass or fail
> > her? A crystal ball prehaps?
>
>
> By using his experience, the experience that presumably got him the job in
> the first place.
Most of these guys have their jobs since the 70's. All they needed was
a full driving licence then and as we know you could buy a liciene in
the 50's without sitting a test. So you actually have the crazy
situation of some examiners that have sat an actually practical
driving test. Sure they did a theory course and were taken and shown
what to watch etc - but they might never have passed a driving test
themselves. Of course I can't talk, now can I? :)
> > That's his job. He is (was) there to please his audience - not his
> > guests.
>
>
> There are fundamental rules, regarding live interviews. Byrne considered
> himself above them. He then went to the States and made a total arse of
> himself
He didn't need to go to the states to do that. I think he is useless
on WWTBAM. He just drags the show out to long. He takes three minutes
to give out the telephone number and makes a big song and dance about
it. Chris Tarrent on the other hand seems to be able to give out the
premeium rate number without you even noticing him doing it. You right
- he is a wanker <g>
>> > Eh, now your not making sense (were you ever?). You implied that
I
> > liked Gay Byrne despite him not being 'honest' to his guests prior
> > demands and then you twist it and say that I like the soft soap style
> > of the likes of Larry King. Are you for rea ..... ahh forget it.
>
> I thought you were on about Kenny..
LOL
> > Ireland has lots of pros ... however they usually end up in the UK as
> > no in RTE couldn't spot talent if they were surronded by it. Look at
> > the idiots that they do give jobs too. That Moncrief guy even had his
> > own 'prime time' show. What was that all about?
>
> Exactly my point. RTE is being fronted by a bunch of amateurs. The perfect
> host for the Late Late would have been Wogan, of course. Pity he's getting
> past his sell by date.
Past his sell by date? The guy must be blue moulded by this stage for
God's sake. Allthough I seen him on Parkinson recently and he was on
top form. Loved that joke he told. I'd repeat it - but I am worse at
telling jokes than I am at driving :))
BB
Bingo Boy
> > You've had TWELVE YEARS to get a license. If you haven't got one
> > by now you deserve to wait as long as it takes for the system to get
> > around to you.
>
> That's nothing. On the Late Late, the minister said provision would be made
> for *pensioners* who are still on provisionals
LOL, yes he did. Then when Pat more or less asked him if the boys in
blue were awrae of this and how it was supposed to work having one law
in rural Ireland and another in the cities, he said: "Sure, sure, yes
.. rest assured we won't be forcing anyone of the road".
He's a hard man to pin down to a question in fairness to Mr Kenny.
Most politicians get angry when they are tyring to avoid a question
and it's so obvious - but this particular minister avoids questions in
a strange way. He even slipped past some tough questions from that guy
on TV3's 'Agenda' - which isn't easy to do as he's usually pretty good
at making politicians answer questions that they so obviously trying
to avoid.
BB
Bingo Boy
> > I have driven over 150,000 miles over the past
> > 12 years and I have never been invloved in an accident, nor being
> > cautioned once by a guard, no speeding tickets etc. I qualified in
> > 1993 as a driving instructor in a different arena.
>
> Please god, not a flying instructor
LOL, no I am colour blind so this rules me out of so much as taken a
flying lesson. And, please no cracks about me failing my driving test
beacause I can't tell the difference between a green and a red light
:)
> > I have won awards
> > for my driving skills and have even being written about in the Irish
> > Independent - which incidently mentioned the fact that I have a
> > provsional licence and must drive on the public roads with a fully
> > qualified driver.
>
> Did you get a big fine?
>
> (sorry, couldn't resist)
LMAO .. now that was funny :)
BB
Paul Carr
<snip>
> I think this is a serious matter. Think about it. People who can't focus
> in the medium to long range, may well acquire the technical competence to
> move a car from A to B after a few driving lessons, but their *confidence*
> will be impaired because their medium to long distance is blurred.
They're
> too proud to get glasses, and besides, currently, chances are, legally,
they
> can get away with it. No matter how many lessons, these people have,
their
> confidence will be shot. Even if they pass the test, which, hopefully,
will
> be pretty much unlikely, they are going to become either far too cautious
on
> the road, and potential hazards to other vehicles, or far too hasty and
fast
> and dangerous. All arising from a lack of confidence.
>
> As I said, confidence as well as competence is an essential component of
> passing the test.
Also, a worse situation to a person have two bad eyes is the person who has
one bad eye. Because he/she still have a reasonably functioning eye, the
brain can trick the person into thinking that his/her vision is okay, when
it is far from it. Without two properly functioning eyes, a sense of
distance and perspective will be impaired. With regard to driving, this has
implications for road positioning, for avoiding hazards or not, and, indeed,
for general confident navigating of the road.
It doesn't matter how many driving lessons that person has had. He/she'll
never be a confident driver without glasses. But, because of the reasonable
patch-up job that the brain performs, he/she thinks that his/her eye-sight
is good enough for the task. This is where the Government can come in and
put in legislation to ensure and compel, if necessary, these people to get
glasses or contact lenses for driving.
Whilst it appears our friend, Bingo Boy, is not a Formula 1 racer, it has
occurred to me that racing is actually very easy compared to driving a car
in real conditions. When racing, chances are there is a circuit. The racer
will be acquainted with that circuit, the severity of the corners et cetera,
and, in any case, he/she'll be allowed practice before a race. Also, she/he
will not have to contend with on-coming traffic most of the time, unless
there is a quite fantastic crash at very high speed. If he/she is put in
danger, it would be of her/his own making most of the time.
Now, driving a car, different story. There are all sorts of variables at
work, even in one's regular route to work and back. What is this pedestrian
on the pavement, looking across the street, going to do next. What about
this group of children behind the vehicle on the left-hand side up ahead.
What are they going to do next? What about the on-coming car crossing the
middle line in the road up ahead.
Paul Carr
Gav
> Gav <gavs_...@mungedup.swissonline.ch.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3e429e86...@news.swissonline.ch...
> > >
> > You've had TWELVE YEARS to get a license. If you haven't got one
> > by now you deserve to wait as long as it takes for the system to get
> > around to you.
>
> That's nothing. On the Late Late, the minister said provision would be made
> for *pensioners* who are still on provisionals
FFS - why bother doing anything at all then? The way it's being
watered down to avoid upsetting someone and losing a FF TD somewhere
some votes means that effectively the status quo will not change -
people who can't pass a driving test will still be driving around for
years without one. Even though it's technically illegal to drive
without a full license the lack of a ministerial will to prosecute
will be taken by a section of the public as a sign that they can
continue to break the law with impunity. What's the betting that
twelve years from now this 'Bingo Boy' guy will still be driving
around on a provisional license and whining that the government is
making him do it?
Good old Irish politics strikes again. Did they ever get plans to
build those much needed new power plants through? The last I heard,
every time they tried to build one the locals at the proposed location
put up such a stink that the minister backed down and the plan got
kicked into the long grass with a 'public enquiry'. Likewise with
desperately needed new dumps and incineration facilities. Few in
Ireland want to recycle their rubbish (too much personal effort) but
nor are they willing to have the extra dumps and incineration
factilities needed as a result of this short-sightedness anywhere near
them.
This whole fuss reminds me of one of the reasons I got out of
Ireland - the place is chock full of stupid, lazy people with no
foresight who hold the country as a whole back and no one in politics
is willing to make hard decisions lest they lose votes from some
sizeable group affected by the unpopular decision. I'm all for
consensus politics but the way it's done in Ireland makes dictatorship
look like a pretty tempting way forward.
Gav
wazza
>
> > > I have driven over 150,000 miles over the past
> > > 12 years and I have never been invloved in an accident, nor being
> > > cautioned once by a guard, no speeding tickets etc. I qualified in
> > > 1993 as a driving instructor in a different arena.
> >
> > Please god, not a flying instructor
>
> LOL, no I am colour blind so this rules me out of so much as taken a
> flying lesson. And, please no cracks about me failing my driving test
> beacause I can't tell the difference between a green and a red light
> :)
Yup, I'm colour blind as well, and that green/red light question pisses me off. Even if I couldn't see the
difference the red one is always on top :-)
Seeing as we're guessing, I'd say fork-lift truck instructor!
w
a
z
Bingo Boy
"..racing is actually very easy compared to driving a car in real
conditions.."
Now isn't that strange - suddenly you start talking about how racing
is "very easy" compared to driving on public roads. I see you have
been to the 'Irish Independent's' online archives. Look Paul, you
beleve that it's impossible for a good driver to fail his driver test
five times - fair enough. To be honest if I had of been passed the
first or second time that I did the test - then I to might have been
so cocky as to believe that the test is easy (which I have never said
even though I have been accused of, by the way) and that no-one should
continiuosly fail it if there are competent drivers.
But, I have the experience of been failed five times on this driving
test. Sure, it was only one fault each and every time out of the 120
plus faults that are listed - but it's still 'my' experience. Actually
now that I think of it, I wouldn't have your opinion if I had of
passed the first and second time because I have heard so many horror
stories from people that I have witnessed as being excellent drivers.
(And if you were watching Top Gear three weeks ago (the highlights
show) you would have seen that Quentin Wilson and their in-house rally
driver failed driver tests that the show set up). You can think it
impossible if you like - I can only tell you how it is.
I have no problem actually with this test rules if just in-case
someone suggests that my opinion is that you should be able to fail on
'one fault' if it's repeated four times. My problem is not with the
rules of the tests - just with 'some' of these idiots that they have
'Interpreting' people's driving ability. Hand on heart, some of these
people are wacko and I honestly believe that 'sometimes' they fail
people for reasons other than their skills.
I read an article (I wish I could find the link) that reccomended
(based on a study that they did) that people should actually act
nervous during a test and also that they should say things to suggest
that they have no hope in passing. There contention was that this
somehow worked on the 'reverse psychology' principal. Apprentely,
examiners were much more prone to pass people when they did this as
the examiner would then be surprised how well they drove compared to
how they acted and they would feel they need to express this feeling
and the only outlet available to them would be to pass them.
Obviuosily it worked both ways - and so the people who acted
confiedent and at ease (no nerves) would get failed as the examiner
would feel that they drove less that they appeared capable of - and
the only wa to express this feeling was to fail them.
And so, back to your suggestion that:
"..racing is actually very easy compared to driving a car in real
conditions.."
Different? Yes, but "very easy"? Not even close.
The different forms of Motorsport all employ slightly varied core
skills that make drivers successful, the constants of communication,
mechanical skill, hand-eye coordination. Some even require the driver
to be bombared with information from the person sitting in their
passenger seat (and I don't mean Hacney Drivers <g>) in order to stay
in one peice while travelling at over 100mph on twisting narrow roads
with only a small stone wall between them and a 1000 foot drop. Now, I
wouldn't call that "very easy".
> When racing, chances are there is a circuit. The racer
> will be acquainted with that circuit, the severity of the corners et cetera,
> and, in any case, he/she'll be allowed practice before a race.
Practice? Depends on which type of Motorsport. Drive around at a 1/4
of the speed they will be racing at? Usually.
> Also, she/he
> will not have to contend with on-coming traffic most of the time, unless
> there is a quite fantastic crash at very high speed. If he/she is put in
> danger, it would be of her/his own making most of the time.
Yes, but it's part of Motorsport to put yourself right on the edge
between safty and danger - otherwise motorsports drivers would all
crawl around their circuits. Of course they can't do this so your
suggestion that it's harder to cope with on-coming traffic (on public
roads - which usually on the opposite side of the road and hardly
needs 'contending with') while travelling at say 60mph than to
travelling at twice that speed with other cars also travelling at
twice that speed - is just plain stupid.
You know, you may think you are entitled to your opinion on this - but
I don't believe that you are actually. See, I am a firm believer that
every one is only entitled to their informed opinion - and I get the
distinict impression that yours is not.
> Now, driving a car, different story. There are all sorts of variables at
> work, even in one's regular route to work and back. What is this pedestrian
> on the pavement, looking across the street, going to do next. What about
> this group of children behind the vehicle on the left-hand side up ahead.
> What are they going to do next? What about the on-coming car crossing the
> middle line in the road up ahead.
Your a regular little Walter Mitty - aren't you?
> Paul Carr
BB
Howard Beale
Gav <gavs_...@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
news:3bf1057d.03020...@posting.google.com...
I'm glad that for once, me and you can finally agree on some things.
Howard Beale
>
>
> Also, a worse situation to a person have two bad eyes is the person who
has
> one bad eye.
And worse again, the person that has only one eye, in total. You'd be
surprised how many are at large on the road.
Howard Beale
Politness is wasted on political interviews. We should treat politicians
with the respect they deserve
Howard Beale
>
> > > He regrets having made his speech in December and belives
> > > that the Guards were wrong in prosecuting PL drivers so soon.
> >
> > Wrong to prosecute people breaking the law? Jesus H f**king Christ
>
> He was refering to the guy who was suspended from driving for a year
> and who's father was also suspended for a year. He insists that they
> were not supposed to be such a crack down untill his full support
> system was in place. Of course this actually contradicts what he said
> later in the interview - and that was that he underestimated the
> amount of people on PL's. Now if he underestimated the amount why the
> need for a support system to accomodate vast numbers of applicants?
>
> He has an awful habit of responding to a question with: yes, yes,
> sure, sure ... and then going on to talk about something else. Pat
> (Plank as Mr Dunphy would say <g>) Kenny asked him the Guards were
> supposed to know when he wanted them to get tough on the PL's - his
> response was: "yeah, yes, sure, sure .. we won't be trowing anyone of
> the street as of yet". Pat then asked him how the Guards were supposed
> to know who the minister wants to prosecute and who is allright to
> drive for a while. Again he responds: "Sure, yeah, yeah .. we will
> make it clear that some people will be fine for a while .. " He sure
> is a slippery one - I'll give him that :)
So then, what we're now saying is that the Gardai are under direct political
control. That explains a few things, like them continuing to certify workers
and businessmen as unemployed, and allowing some to drive while banned
(presumably to save the high cost of imprisonment)
>
> >> > And how exactly is the examiner supposed to judge whether she is
> > > capable or incapable of driving on motorways in order to pass or fail
> > > her? A crystal ball prehaps?
> >
> >
> > By using his experience, the experience that presumably got him the job
in
> > the first place.
>
> Most of these guys have their jobs since the 70's. All they needed was
> a full driving licence then and as we know you could buy a liciene in
> the 50's without sitting a test. So you actually have the crazy
> situation of some examiners that have sat an actually practical
> driving test. Sure they did a theory course and were taken and shown
> what to watch etc - but they might never have passed a driving test
> themselves. Of course I can't talk, now can I? :)
I'm tempted to change the thread to one about schol principas here, but I'll
resist, and just say that I agree, the system stinks.
> > > That's his job. He is (was) there to please his audience - not his
> > > guests.
> >
> >
> > There are fundamental rules, regarding live interviews. Byrne considered
> > himself above them. He then went to the States and made a total arse of
> > himself
>
> He didn't need to go to the states to do that. I think he is useless
> on WWTBAM. He just drags the show out to long. He takes three minutes
> to give out the telephone number and makes a big song and dance about
> it. Chris Tarrent on the other hand seems to be able to give out the
> premeium rate number without you even noticing him doing it. You right
> - he is a wanker <g>
I told you so :-))
> > > Ireland has lots of pros ... however they usually end up in the UK as
> > > no in RTE couldn't spot talent if they were surronded by it. Look at
> > > the idiots that they do give jobs too. That Moncrief guy even had his
> > > own 'prime time' show. What was that all about?
> >
> > Exactly my point. RTE is being fronted by a bunch of amateurs. The
perfect
> > host for the Late Late would have been Wogan, of course. Pity he's
getting
> > past his sell by date.
>
> Past his sell by date? The guy must be blue moulded by this stage for
> God's sake. Allthough I seen him on Parkinson recently and he was on
> top form. Loved that joke he told. I'd repeat it - but I am worse at
> telling jokes than I am at driving :))
Wogan is still brilliant, and frankly, he'd have been wasted on the small
audience that RTE has. Mind you, I' d rather see him on the Late Late for
his remaining working years , than wasting his talent on BBC radio.
I'd say something good here about Graham Norton, but I think he's been
getting just a little bit too offensive in recent weeks
Bingo Boy
> I'd say something good here about Graham Norton, but I think he's been
> getting just a little bit too offensive in recent weeks.
Don't like the guy at all. He's too much of a smart arse. Another
thing about him which bugs the hell out of me is the amount of times
he say's "Eh, em" and "And, eh". The latter his say's after every
punch line. I will give anyone 100 Euros, that can find me one half
hour episode of his show where his say's "Eh" less than 50 times. I'm
serious.
BB
Paul Carr
"Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> Wogan is still brilliant, and frankly, he'd have been wasted on the small
> audience that RTE has. Mind you, I' d rather see him on the Late Late for
> his remaining working years , than wasting his talent on BBC radio.
>
> I'd say something good here about Graham Norton, but I think he's been
> getting just a little bit too offensive in recent weeks
There's a market out there for that sort of "humour", Howard. Besides, I
think he is a great showman. And, watching some of his shows, he does get
on a great assortment of star-guests and he has this uncanny ability to
humilitate his guests without making them uncomfortable.
Paul Carr
Howard Beale
I agree. It's just that he's going just a little too far at times. For
example the gag he made over the death of one of the Bee Gees.
Howard Beale
>
> > I'd say something good here about Graham Norton, but I think he's been
> > getting just a little bit too offensive in recent weeks.
>
> Don't like the guy at all.
He's great. It's just that recently, he seems to be breaking the boundries
of good taste, a little too strongly
> He's too much of a smart arse. Another
> thing about him which bugs the hell out of me is the amount of times
> he say's "Eh, em" and "And, eh". The latter his say's after every
> punch line. I will give anyone 100 Euros, that can find me one half
> hour episode of his show where his say's "Eh" less than 50 times. I'm
> serious.
Eh?
Paul Carr
"Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
Ka Ching.
Paul Carr
(That stands for the cash register, Howard)
Howard Beale
I don't think realy tastless stuff like that, is going to make him any more
money
Then again,the way things are, who knows?
Paul Carr
>
> "..racing is actually very easy compared to driving a car in real
> conditions.."
>
> Now isn't that strange - suddenly you start talking about how racing
> is "very easy" compared to driving on public roads. I see you have
> been to the 'Irish Independent's' online archives. Look Paul, you
> beleve that it's impossible for a good driver to fail his driver test
> five times - fair enough. To be honest if I had of been passed the
> first or second time that I did the test - then I to might have been
> so cocky as to believe that the test is easy (which I have never said
> even though I have been accused of, by the way)
Actually, I think the Driving Test is very easy, especially in the Republic
of Ireland.
Think about it. You're only out on the road for 30 minutes. That's half
the time of an hours' lesson with a School of Motoring. Chances are, during
the test, you'll get easier manoeuvres too (reverse and turnabout (in 3 or 5
points)) than you would during a lesson.
In the UK, before you even get into the car for your test, you have to
identify a number plate of a car from a distance of, at least, 21 metres, I
think. Not required in the Irish test. Also, the UK test has the reverse
parallel parking manoeuvre, which the test in the Republic of Ireland does
not have. A useful skill to have, especially, in a city like Dublin and
other urban areas. In the UK test, there also has to be demonstrated the
Emergency Stop. This again is not covered in the Irish test.
Paul Carr
Bingo Boy
> He's great. It's just that recently, he seems to be breaking the boundries
> of good taste, a little too strongly.
Well we will have to agree to disagree on this as I can't tolerate
him. It's a shame actually because he get's really good guests. I
tuned in the other night to see Dustin Hoffman but his fake laughing
(not as bad as Des O'Connor's though) and his "And Eh"'s nearly
spoiled it.
> > He's too much of a smart arse. Another
> > thing about him which bugs the hell out of me is the amount of times
> > he say's "Eh, em" and "And, eh". The latter his say's after every
> > punch line. I will give anyone 100 Euros, that can find me one half
> > hour episode of his show where his say's "Eh" less than 50 times. I'm
> > serious.
>
> Eh?
No it's 'Eh' as in the question form that you suggest pronounced as
"A". It's actually 'Eh' as in 'Ehhh'. Like what you say when your
trying to remember something. Usually you'll say "Ehhh" before you
remember - which is actually what Norton wants you to believe.
Like after his Bee Gee's gag(?) he the had this really really fake
body shaking giggle fit and then went into his "And Ehh" routine to
give the impression that he's thinking of what to say but he's
surprised at the laughter. However, I think I am the only one who's
surprised at the laughter :) Seriously, when you watch it next - just
make a mental note of how many times he say's "And Ehh" or "Ehh mmm" -
it's unbelievable.
BB
Howard Beale
>
> "Bingo Boy" <bing...@ny.com> wrote in message
> news:11214541.03020...@posting.google.com...
> > "Paul Carr" <paul...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >
> > "..racing is actually very easy compared to driving a car in real
> > conditions.."
> >
> > Now isn't that strange - suddenly you start talking about how racing
> > is "very easy" compared to driving on public roads. I see you have
> > been to the 'Irish Independent's' online archives. Look Paul, you
> > beleve that it's impossible for a good driver to fail his driver test
> > five times - fair enough. To be honest if I had of been passed the
> > first or second time that I did the test - then I to might have been
> > so cocky as to believe that the test is easy (which I have never said
> > even though I have been accused of, by the way)
>
> Actually, I think the Driving Test is very easy, especially in the
Republic
> of Ireland.
>
> Think about it. You're only out on the road for 30 minutes. That's half
> the time of an hours' lesson with a School of Motoring. Chances are,
during
> the test, you'll get easier manoeuvres too (reverse and turnabout (in 3 or
5
> points)) than you would during a lesson.
The time I took lessons, after leaving the bar, all we'd do, would be to
drive around the test circuit, doing the test manoeuvres
over and over again
>
> In the UK, before you even get into the car for your test, you have to
> identify a number plate of a car from a distance of, at least, 21 metres,
I
> think. Not required in the Irish test.
It used to be. What happens now, do you get a doctor's cert?
> Also, the UK test has the reverse
> parallel parking manoeuvre, which the test in the Republic of Ireland does
> not have. A useful skill to have, especially, in a city like Dublin and
> other urban areas. In the UK test, there also has to be demonstrated the
> Emergency Stop. This again is not covered in the Irish test.
Unless a cow wanders into the road...
Howard Beale
>
>
> > He's great. It's just that recently, he seems to be breaking the
boundries
> > of good taste, a little too strongly.
>
> Well we will have to agree to disagree on this as I can't tolerate
> him. It's a shame actually because he get's really good guests. I
> tuned in the other night to see Dustin Hoffman but his fake laughing
> (not as bad as Des O'Connor's though) and his "And Eh"'s nearly
> spoiled it.
I was a bit disappointed in it. The last time he had Hoffman on, it was
great. I'm a bit surprised that there was no mention of his anti-war stance,
seeing as Norton had mentioned the irony of attacking Iraq etc. on other
shows. Susan Sarandon was another one who didn't get asked about it. I
wonder did the powers that be give the order to keep shtum.
>
> > > He's too much of a smart arse. Another
> > > thing about him which bugs the hell out of me is the amount of times
> > > he say's "Eh, em" and "And, eh". The latter his say's after every
> > > punch line. I will give anyone 100 Euros, that can find me one half
> > > hour episode of his show where his say's "Eh" less than 50 times. I'm
> > > serious.
> >
> > Eh?
>
> No it's 'Eh' as in the question form that you suggest pronounced as
> "A". It's actually 'Eh' as in 'Ehhh'. Like what you say when your
> trying to remember something. Usually you'll say "Ehhh" before you
> remember - which is actually what Norton wants you to believe.
>
> Like after his Bee Gee's gag(?) he the had this really really fake
> body shaking giggle fit and then went into his "And Ehh" routine to
> give the impression that he's thinking of what to say but he's
> surprised at the laughter. However, I think I am the only one who's
> surprised at the laughter :) Seriously, when you watch it next - just
> make a mental note of how many times he say's "And Ehh" or "Ehh mmm" -
> it's unbelievable.
I'll check it out on Monday
Paul Carr
"Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> > In the UK, before you even get into the car for your test, you have to
> > identify a number plate of a car from a distance of, at least, 21
metres,
> I
> > think. Not required in the Irish test.
>
> It used to be. What happens now, do you get a doctor's cert?
As far as I know, an Optician's Cert. You go to the Optician before you
apply for your provisional licence to get clearance, as it were, from the
Optician, after doing a preliminary examination of your eye-sight.
> > Also, the UK test has the reverse
> > parallel parking manoeuvre, which the test in the Republic of Ireland
does
> > not have. A useful skill to have, especially, in a city like Dublin and
> > other urban areas. In the UK test, there also has to be demonstrated
the
> > Emergency Stop. This again is not covered in the Irish test.
>
> Unless a cow wanders into the road...
Even if that were to happen, even if you were to successfully effect an
Emergency stop in those conditions, my bet is that the Examiner would give
you a Grade 2 or Grade 3 fault anyway for not taking preventative action in
order to avoid a hazard. The Examiner would be expecting you to see that
cow a good distance ahead, anticipate that that cow will step onto the road,
and, so, move down the gears and decelerate in good time, bringing the car
to almost a crawl in first gear, as you can bet your bottom euro that the
cow will slowly lumber across the road, fast enough, to enable you not to
stop altogether. Under no circumstances, use the horn, as that might alarm
the animal and she/he could charge in your direction.
Paul Carr
Howard Beale
>
> "Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
> news:b243u5$3rh$2...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
> >
> > Paul Carr <paul...@iol.ie> wrote in message
> > news:b23ojv$v70$1...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
>
> <snip>
>
> > > In the UK, before you even get into the car for your test, you have to
> > > identify a number plate of a car from a distance of, at least, 21
> metres,
> > I
> > > think. Not required in the Irish test.
> >
> > It used to be. What happens now, do you get a doctor's cert?
>
> As far as I know, an Optician's Cert.
More expense, then
> You go to the Optician before you
> apply for your provisional licence to get clearance, as it were, from the
> Optician, after doing a preliminary examination of your eye-sight.
Fat lot of good if someone's been driving on the provisional for the last xx
years
>
> > > Also, the UK test has the reverse
> > > parallel parking manoeuvre, which the test in the Republic of Ireland
> does
> > > not have. A useful skill to have, especially, in a city like Dublin
and
> > > other urban areas. In the UK test, there also has to be demonstrated
> the
> > > Emergency Stop. This again is not covered in the Irish test.
> >
> > Unless a cow wanders into the road...
>
> Even if that were to happen, even if you were to successfully effect an
> Emergency stop in those conditions, my bet is that the Examiner would give
> you a Grade 2 or Grade 3 fault anyway for not taking preventative action
in
> order to avoid a hazard. The Examiner would be expecting you to see that
> cow a good distance ahead, anticipate that that cow will step onto the
road,
> and, so, move down the gears and decelerate in good time, bringing the car
> to almost a crawl in first gear, as you can bet your bottom euro that the
> cow will slowly lumber across the road, fast enough, to enable you not to
> stop altogether. Under no circumstances, use the horn, as that might
alarm
> the animal and she/he could charge in your direction.
I recall driving my car around a bend, on a very narrow road, only to see a
herd of the damn things right in front of me. No time to stop, no room to
get past. All I could do was to drive up on the ditch in a James Bond type
manoeuvre and scrape past, almost on 2 wheels.
Then there was the time our cat jumped onto one of our landlord's cow's
backs, inducing it to jump through our conservatory window. We didn't
mention the cat when we complained.
Paul Carr
"Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> > Even if that were to happen, even if you were to successfully effect an
> > Emergency stop in those conditions, my bet is that the Examiner would
give
> > you a Grade 2 or Grade 3 fault anyway for not taking preventative action
> in
> > order to avoid a hazard. The Examiner would be expecting you to see
that
> > cow a good distance ahead, anticipate that that cow will step onto the
> road,
> > and, so, move down the gears and decelerate in good time, bringing the
car
> > to almost a crawl in first gear, as you can bet your bottom euro that
the
> > cow will slowly lumber across the road, fast enough, to enable you not
to
> > stop altogether. Under no circumstances, use the horn, as that might
> alarm
> > the animal and she/he could charge in your direction.
>
> I recall driving my car around a bend, on a very narrow road, only to see
a
> herd of the damn things right in front of me. No time to stop, no room to
> get past.
I've been told it's a good idea to slow down when approaching a bend Howard.
;-) (especially those ones where you can't see what's around it) As the
Rules of the Road state. You should drive at a speed which will enable you
to stop within the distance that you can see to be clear.
Paul Carr
Howard Beale
I did slow down
> (especially those ones where you can't see what's around it) As the
> Rules of the Road state. You should drive at a speed which will enable you
> to stop within the distance that you can see to be clear.
So, every time you come to a bend, you slow down to about 5 mph? On the bend
in question, there is room for 2 cars to pass, but not for 1 car and a herd
of cows.
Paul Carr
"Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> > (especially those ones where you can't see what's around it) As the
> > Rules of the Road state. You should drive at a speed which will enable
you
> > to stop within the distance that you can see to be clear.
>
> So, every time you come to a bend, you slow down to about 5 mph? On the
bend
> in question, there is room for 2 cars to pass, but not for 1 car and a
herd
> of cows.
Well, I suppose negotiating with bends is not an exact science, Howard. I
figure you should slow down to 5mph if that's the max speed you can do,
which would nevertheless enable you to stop within the distance you can see
to be clear. Every roadway carries a different set of circumstances. On
country roads, you have to take wondering cows into account and their habit
of non-compliance with the rules of the road.
Paul Carr
Howard Beale
>
> "Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
> news:b24889$5mq$1...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
> >
> > Paul Carr <paul...@iol.ie> wrote in message
> > news:b2476g$58f$1...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
>
> <snip>
>
> > > (especially those ones where you can't see what's around it) As the
> > > Rules of the Road state. You should drive at a speed which will enable
> you
> > > to stop within the distance that you can see to be clear.
> >
> > So, every time you come to a bend, you slow down to about 5 mph? On the
> bend
> > in question, there is room for 2 cars to pass, but not for 1 car and a
> herd
> > of cows.
>
> Well, I suppose negotiating with bends is not an exact science, Howard. I
> figure you should slow down to 5mph if that's the max speed you can do,
> which would nevertheless enable you to stop within the distance you can
see
> to be clear.
That would mean you'd have to slow to that speed on just about every rural
back road.
> Every roadway carries a different set of circumstances. On
> country roads, you have to take wondering cows into account and their
habit
> of non-compliance with the rules of the road.
Another case of farmers getting away with murder
Paul Carr
"Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> > Well, I suppose negotiating with bends is not an exact science, Howard.
I
> > figure you should slow down to 5mph if that's the max speed you can do,
> > which would nevertheless enable you to stop within the distance you can
> see
> > to be clear.
>
> That would mean you'd have to slow to that speed on just about every rural
> back road.
Well, at the bends, yeah, I suppose, if that's what it takes to drive
safely.
Paul Carr
Whitewolf
I was driving a motorbike along a nice empty country road one time a few
years ago.. It was a nice stretch of empty road so I decied to see how fast
this bike could go (it was new).. So there I am going about 85 mph and so I
decide to slow down.. But the trottle was stuck on full rev and the brake
was struggling to counter it.. I had to force the bke down in gear manually
and eventually I stopped witht he bike engine roaring... It was a lucky
thing I had a long stretch of road... As for those same country roads one
day I was out for my spin in Clare are usual when I hit a pothole large
enough to build a house it, knocked me off my bike and knocked me out... I
awoke some minutes later lying on my back staring at the sky.. My arm hurt
like hell and I thought I'd broken it, but I didn't... I love motorbikes
but don't seem to have much luck with them...
Ray
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Email: r...@eirefirst.com
Irish culture/interest site: http://www.eirefirst.com
Christmas message: http://www.eirefirst.com/christmas
King James Bible: http://www.iol.ie/~rayh/kjv
Northern Ireland pics: http://www.iol.ie/~rayh/north
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Carr
"Whitewolf" <r...@eirefirst.com> wrote in message
news:k6db4v40gu581v19d...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 9 Feb 2003 01:31:57 -0000, "Paul Carr" <paul...@iol.ie> wrote:
<snip>
> I was driving a motorbike along a nice empty country road one time a few
> years ago.. It was a nice stretch of empty road so I decied to see how
fast
> this bike could go (it was new).. So there I am going about 85 mph and so
I
> decide to slow down.. But the trottle was stuck on full rev and the brake
> was struggling to counter it..
Did the brakes lock? I read somewhere the thing to do to counter that is
cadence braking, namely applying and releasing quickly the brake a number of
times. At any rate, this is what would apply to cars. Although most modern
cars would now have electronically operated anti-lock braking systems which
incorporate the same principle.
I had to force the bke down in gear manually
> and eventually I stopped witht he bike engine roaring... It was a lucky
> thing I had a long stretch of road...
I've had a Driving Instructor who told me a similar story. He was driving
his truck along the road. He was approaching a junction. He applied his
foot to the brake. Lo and behold, no response. There was cars up ahead
waiting at the traffic lights. So he risked it and moved his truck over to
right-hand lane and worked his way down the gears bringing the truck to a
stop. He was lucky. There were no cars coming.
As for those same country roads one
> day I was out for my spin in Clare are usual when I hit a pothole large
> enough to build a house it, knocked me off my bike and knocked me out...
I
> awoke some minutes later lying on my back staring at the sky.. My arm
hurt
> like hell and I thought I'd broken it, but I didn't... I love motorbikes
> but don't seem to have much luck with them...
Damn risky, I would have thought. If I recall correctly, the rules of the
road state that a motorcyclist is 10 times more likely to be seriously
injured and killed than a car-driver.
Paul Carr
Paul Carr
<snip>
> I was driving a motorbike along a nice empty country road one time a few
> years ago.. It was a nice stretch of empty road so I decied to see how
fast
> this bike could go (it was new).. So there I am going about 85 mph and so
I
> decide to slow down..
By the way, don't be doing 85 mph. You're exceeding the speed limit in
what, I presume, was a 60 mph zone.
Paul Carr
Bingo Boy
> In the UK test, there also has to be demonstrated
> the
> Emergency Stop. This again is not covered in the Irish test.
I am well aware of this - I was the one who first mentioned it in this
thread.
> The Examiner would be expecting you to see that
> cow a good distance ahead, anticipate that that cow will step onto the road,
> and, so, move down the gears and decelerate in good time ... <snip>
I once had a 'customer' tell me that during his first driving test he
was driving along in a 40mph zone (somewhere in Finglas if I recall
correctly) when to his left he noticed this kid running along the
footpath being chased by another kid who he could see in his rear-view
mirror. This kid was sort of running along side the car on the
footpath (there were also some parked cars) and was running in a zig
zag wag that made you unsure if he was going to darth out in front of
you. So this guy slows a little - not much - but enough to be able to
re-act should the Kid run out in front of the car - as he to the car
travelling behind.
Just at that point he notices that the instructor is writing something
- so he sneaks a quick look and as the instuctor is looking down at
the sheet and still has the pen in the box he has checked - it was
"failing to make progress". So the guy say's (without giving away that
he has noticed) "look at this kid .. I'm sure he's going to run out in
front of someone". The examiner looks to his left a little surprised
and say's "best slow it down a little bit .. " and just as he said
that the kid runs right out in front of the car and scoots off down
the road. So, the examiner guy hadn't obsevered this kid at all.
I see these examiners coming and going all day from the centre here in
Raheny. I meet them on the roads all the time. Now, some of them are
good drivers. One is in fact a lunatic who drives a Subaru Impreza
Turbo WRX. He's about 56ish and he wheel spins off from the gates of
the centre. I see him about Killester quite a bit and he has this
young chick with him all the time :) I also see a few of the others
about - and there is two of them (one who failed me) that simply
should not be on the roads (not for legal reasons like me <g>) beacuse
they are unable to drive in a safe manner. The amount of times I see
these guys getting beeped at. One of them allways misses the filter
light at the cross roads too and then leaves his indicator flashing
for a mile or two :)
BB
Howard Beale
One in eight die on their bikes
Whitewolf
It was a "side road" it wasn't marked as any particular speed.. I only
spead up to that speed because the bike was new and I wanted to see what it
could do. The day was clear, the road was empty (it was about 8am too) and
I had a stretch about a mile long that I could see nothing comeing.. Also
there was no junction roads joining this one so something couldn't come in
and surprise me.. I drove very carefully/defensively all the time except
that time...
Whitewolf
>
>"Whitewolf" <r...@eirefirst.com> wrote in message
>news:k6db4v40gu581v19d...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 9 Feb 2003 01:31:57 -0000, "Paul Carr" <paul...@iol.ie> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> I was driving a motorbike along a nice empty country road one time a few
>> years ago.. It was a nice stretch of empty road so I decied to see how
>fast
>> this bike could go (it was new).. So there I am going about 85 mph and so
>I
>> decide to slow down.. But the trottle was stuck on full rev and the brake
>> was struggling to counter it..
>
>Did the brakes lock? I read somewhere the thing to do to counter that is
>cadence braking, namely applying and releasing quickly the brake a number of
>times. At any rate, this is what would apply to cars. Although most modern
>cars would now have electronically operated anti-lock braking systems which
>incorporate the same principle.
>
No the breaks worked, but they were fighting the engine which was locked in
top gear going flat out...
> I had to force the bke down in gear manually
>> and eventually I stopped witht he bike engine roaring... It was a lucky
>> thing I had a long stretch of road...
>
>I've had a Driving Instructor who told me a similar story. He was driving
>his truck along the road. He was approaching a junction. He applied his
>foot to the brake. Lo and behold, no response. There was cars up ahead
>waiting at the traffic lights. So he risked it and moved his truck over to
>right-hand lane and worked his way down the gears bringing the truck to a
>stop. He was lucky. There were no cars coming.
>
Yes he was lucky...
Over here at the bottom of large hills they have gravel traps here on many
roads... If a truck is coming down and it's breaks fail it drives into this
"trap" and it will come to a stop..
> As for those same country roads one
>> day I was out for my spin in Clare are usual when I hit a pothole large
>> enough to build a house it, knocked me off my bike and knocked me out...
>I
>> awoke some minutes later lying on my back staring at the sky.. My arm
>hurt
>> like hell and I thought I'd broken it, but I didn't... I love motorbikes
>> but don't seem to have much luck with them...
>
>Damn risky, I would have thought. If I recall correctly, the rules of the
>road state that a motorcyclist is 10 times more likely to be seriously
>injured and killed than a car-driver.
>
>Paul Carr
I avoided the city as much as I could and drove into the countryside so I
could basically have the road to myself - little back ways that cars
wouldn't go down and such... Then off goes the engine so I could listen to
the birds sing and the sounds of the countryside - which is very nice to my
ear and refreshing to my soul...
Whitewolf
Really that high? A friend of mine had a crash and broke his leg which was
in a cast for what seemed like forever... After his leg got better he got a
new bike... Today he drives a car...
Howard Beale
That's the statistic I read a few years ago
> A friend of mine had a crash and broke his leg which was
> in a cast for what seemed like forever... After his leg got better he got
a
> new bike... Today he drives a car...
I've had several friends and aquaintances who've been killed on bikes.
No-one under 30 should be allowed to ride one
Whitewolf
<how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote:
:-(
>
>> A friend of mine had a crash and broke his leg which was
>> in a cast for what seemed like forever... After his leg got better he got
>a
>> new bike... Today he drives a car...
>
>I've had several friends and aquaintances who've been killed on bikes.
>No-one under 30 should be allowed to ride one
I'd have to disagree... Having been a bike rider, I just loved the feeling
and apart from the few incidents I mentioned, I had a trouble free few years
driving...
Howard Beale
How many youngsters are as sensible as you, though? If there was some sort
of manditory insruction and test brought in, maybe I'd agree, but the
present system just isn't right
Whitewolf
<how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote:
>
>Whitewolf <r...@eirefirst.com> wrote in message
>news:mlrf4vo469ts5r3a8...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:23:23 -0000, "Howard Beale"
>> <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >I've had several friends and aquaintances who've been killed on bikes.
>> >No-one under 30 should be allowed to ride one
>>
>> I'd have to disagree... Having been a bike rider, I just loved the feeling
>> and apart from the few incidents I mentioned, I had a trouble free few
>years
>> driving...
>
>How many youngsters are as sensible as you, though? If there was some sort
>of manditory insruction and test brought in, maybe I'd agree, but the
>present system just isn't right
I agree there should be a test... My test was this:
I went and got my provisional license. Using this I was able to get my road
tax and insurance... The insurance guy came out looked at my bike asked me
if was working.. So there I was... No experience of driving a bike -
other than a bicycle... And allowed on the road!!
A couple of times I got stopped by guards.. Once by a motorbike cop who
asked me if I was tax and insured and by who - I didn't have the papers with
me but that didn't matter - and I wasn't made to produce them either. On
another occasion I was on my way back home from one of my country spins when
I was stopped a roadblock - they were looking for armed robbers - Only asked
me who I was and where I was coming from - no request for insurance again...
When I went back to renew my insurance, no questions with regard to a
driving license was even asked... I showed them the old insurance, paid the
money and was re-insured in a few minutes...
Now over here things are different... First off before you can drive a
motorbike you have to take and pass a regular driving test and obtain a
driving license... When you go to the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles),
you have to show that you can handle your bike by example... You have to be
able to drive safely in and out between cones, etc... Then you can drive
it... Would you think that system should apply to Ireland too?
Paul Carr
Then what's the point in having laws if you are not going to obey them?
Paul Carr
Paul Carr
> On Sun, 9 Feb 2003 02:20:12 -0000, "Paul Carr" <paul...@iol.ie> wrote:
<snip>
> > As for those same country roads one
> >> day I was out for my spin in Clare are usual when I hit a pothole large
> >> enough to build a house it, knocked me off my bike and knocked me
out...
> >I
> >> awoke some minutes later lying on my back staring at the sky.. My arm
> >hurt
> >> like hell and I thought I'd broken it, but I didn't... I love
motorbikes
> >> but don't seem to have much luck with them...
> >
> >Damn risky, I would have thought. If I recall correctly, the rules of
the
> >road state that a motorcyclist is 10 times more likely to be seriously
> >injured and killed than a car-driver.
> >
> >Paul Carr
>
> I avoided the city as much as I could and drove into the countryside so I
> could basically have the road to myself - little back ways that cars
> wouldn't go down and such...
Are you sure? Was this "little back way" just the width of a motorbike?
Paul Carr
Whitewolf
Well I never saw any cars there...
Whitewolf
Wasn't it you a couple of weeks or so ago were telling us that you went
through a red light on your bike? We all do things that are stupid
sometimes and sometimes we pay more than other times...
Paul Carr
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:24:58 -0000, "Paul Carr" <paul...@iol.ie> wrote:
<snip>
> >> It was a "side road" it wasn't marked as any particular speed.. I only
> >> spead up to that speed because the bike was new and I wanted to see
what
> >it
> >> could do. The day was clear, the road was empty (it was about 8am too)
> >and
> >> I had a stretch about a mile long that I could see nothing comeing..
Also
> >> there was no junction roads joining this one so something couldn't come
in
> >> and surprise me.. I drove very carefully/defensively all the time
> >except
> >> that time...
> >
> >Then what's the point in having laws if you are not going to obey them?
> >
>
> Wasn't it you a couple of weeks or so ago were telling us that you went
> through a red light on your bike?
You caught me there. ;-).
Paul Carr
Howard Beale
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:34:14 -0000, "Howard Beale"
> <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Whitewolf <r...@eirefirst.com> wrote in message
> >news:mlrf4vo469ts5r3a8...@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:23:23 -0000, "Howard Beale"
> >> <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I've had several friends and aquaintances who've been killed on bikes.
> >> >No-one under 30 should be allowed to ride one
> >>
> >> I'd have to disagree... Having been a bike rider, I just loved the
feeling
> >> and apart from the few incidents I mentioned, I had a trouble free few
> >years
> >> driving...
> >
> >How many youngsters are as sensible as you, though? If there was some
sort
> >of manditory insruction and test brought in, maybe I'd agree, but the
> >present system just isn't right
>
> I agree there should be a test... My test was this:
>
> I went and got my provisional license. Using this I was able to get my
road
> tax and insurance... The insurance guy came out looked at my bike asked
me
> if was working..
I just bought my policy from the shop I bought the bike from
> So there I was... No experience of driving a bike -
> other than a bicycle... And allowed on the road!!
Me too
>
> A couple of times I got stopped by guards.. Once by a motorbike cop who
> asked me if I was tax and insured and by who - I didn't have the papers
with
> me but that didn't matter - and I wasn't made to produce them either. On
> another occasion I was on my way back home from one of my country spins
when
> I was stopped a roadblock - they were looking for armed robbers - Only
asked
> me who I was and where I was coming from - no request for insurance
again...
> When I went back to renew my insurance, no questions with regard to a
> driving license was even asked... I showed them the old insurance, paid
the
> money and was re-insured in a few minutes...
>
> Now over here things are different... First off before you can drive a
> motorbike you have to take and pass a regular driving test and obtain a
> driving license... When you go to the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles),
> you have to show that you can handle your bike by example... You have to
be
> able to drive safely in and out between cones, etc... Then you can drive
> it... Would you think that system should apply to Ireland too?
Makes sense.............. it'll never happen
Whitewolf
<how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote:
I bet this is the "normal" way...
>>
>> A couple of times I got stopped by guards.. Once by a motorbike cop who
>> asked me if I was tax and insured and by who - I didn't have the papers
>with
>> me but that didn't matter - and I wasn't made to produce them either. On
>> another occasion I was on my way back home from one of my country spins
>when
>> I was stopped a roadblock - they were looking for armed robbers - Only
>asked
>> me who I was and where I was coming from - no request for insurance
>again...
>> When I went back to renew my insurance, no questions with regard to a
>> driving license was even asked... I showed them the old insurance, paid
>the
>> money and was re-insured in a few minutes...
>>
>> Now over here things are different... First off before you can drive a
>> motorbike you have to take and pass a regular driving test and obtain a
>> driving license... When you go to the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles),
>> you have to show that you can handle your bike by example... You have to
>be
>> able to drive safely in and out between cones, etc... Then you can drive
>> it... Would you think that system should apply to Ireland too?
>
>Makes sense.............. it'll never happen
MIght... but I'm not holding my breath...
Whitewolf
My point is though that sometimes, due to human nature we do things and
afterwards thinking about them we say to ourselves "jeez, that was a really
dumb thing to do", but at the time it seemed like a good idea.. :-)
Paul Carr
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:26:50 -0000, "Paul Carr" <paul...@iol.ie> wrote:
<snip>
> >> Wasn't it you a couple of weeks or so ago were telling us that you went
> >> through a red light on your bike?
> >
> >You caught me there. ;-).
> >
> >Paul Carr
> >
>
> My point is though that sometimes, due to human nature we do things and
> afterwards thinking about them we say to ourselves "jeez, that was a
really
> dumb thing to do", but at the time it seemed like a good idea.. :-)
Perhaps, but if the police were to catch you with their speeding equipment,
that's hardly going to stand up as a credible defence.
Paul Carr
Whitewolf
True. But where I was the road was more a road between real roads... No
markings, no signs for it even... If you didn't know where it was you might
have trouble finding it at all... Which is why I liked it! :-)
Howard Beale
Try bunging them a few quid
Howard Beale
Seems to be, although there are now some power restrictions for young
riders. It's madness, though, allowing a 16 year old loose, even on a 50cc
machine
Paul Carr
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 00:45:43 -0000, "Paul Carr" <paul...@iol.ie> wrote:
<snip>
> >Perhaps, but if the police were to catch you with their speeding
equipment,
> >that's hardly going to stand up as a credible defence.
> >
> >Paul Carr
> >
>
> True. But where I was the road was more a road between real roads... No
> markings, no signs for it even... If you didn't know where it was you
might
> have trouble finding it at all... Which is why I liked it! :-)
They're the sort of roads that vagrant and careless kids (not you of course)
would carelessly wonder upon. The back of beyond places are the type of
places were ne'er-do-wells frequent in order to avoid the supervision of the
police and parents and adults. One can never take any road for granted.
Paul Carr