hey donie - is christianity a satanic cult?
sam...@hotmail.com
consider as the mighty prophet for christianity.
If we look into his testimonies and what he had
recorded in the bible , we can be certain that
this 'rasul paulus' or prophet paul was actually
the prophet for satan (which of course has
implications for christians).
As stated in the bible of how 'rasul paulus' aka
paul supposedly met jesus per acts9:3
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4870983
[3] And as he journeyed, he came near
Damascus: and suddenly there shined
round about him a light from heaven:
acts22:6
[6] And it came to pass, that, as I made my
journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus
about noon, suddenly there shone from
heaven a great light round about me.
acts26:13
[13] At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light
from heaven, above the brightness of the
sun, shining round about me and them
which journeyed with me.
What did 'rasul paulus' aka paul saw? He saw a
light and heard a voice supposedly that of jesus
(as claimed by him).
'Rasul paulus' aka paul who was the author of
2cor11:14
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5127486
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
into an angel of light.
It is clear that 'rasul paulus' aka paul saw the light
and by his definition he saw satan not jesus. Satan
had transformed itself into a angel of light.
Christians can argue that in context 2cor11:14 does
not explicitly means angels per se. Satan can turn into
someone good and the word angel signify this point
in context. Therefore in context satan can transform
itself to act like an angel and not limiting itself to be
able to transform to anything good.
Tests to the above evidence :
a) 1cor9:20-22
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5072031
[20] And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I
might gain the Jews; to them that are under
the law, as under the law, that I might gain
them that are under the law;
[21] To them that are without law, as without law,
(being not without law to God, but under the
law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are
without law.
[22] To the weak became I as weak, that I might
gain the weak: I am made all things to all
men, that I might by all means save some.
This show that 'rasul paulus' aka paul is willing
to play act to be anyone just to lure them. This
is the identical tactics used by the christian
missionaries of being deceitful.
b) 2cor12:16
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5127486
[16] But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless,
being crafty, I caught you with guile.
'Rasul paulus' aka paul admited that he used
guile or deceit or trickery. In other word he was
a liar or a subscriber to 'takkiya'.
c) 'Rasul paulus' aka paul so call testimonies of
him seeing jesus contradicted each other :
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4870983
Acts 9: 1-7
- 'Rasul paulus' aka paul is on a journey, he then
sees a light and hears a voice, this voice is
supposedly Jesus. Paul then asks Jesus what
do you want me to do? The response by Jesus
is for Paul to go to the city and it will be made
known to him over there.
Acts 26: 12-18
- We see Jesus already telling Paul what he
must do! So which one is it? Will Paul know
what his purpose is in the city? Or did he already
know?
Acts 22: 5-10
- agrees with the version of Acts 9, Acts 26 is the
only different one in this case; Acts 26 contradicts
Acts 9 and 22.
In addition in acts9:4&7 , 'rasul paulus' aka paul
fall to the earth and the men who accompanied
'rasul paulus' aka paul stood speechless , heard
a voice but did not see anyone. In acts22:7& 9 ,
'rasul paulus' aka paul fall to the ground . the men
who accompanied 'rasul paulus' aka paul saw the
light , were afraid but heard no voice. In acts26:14
all of then fall to the ground and 'rasul paulus' aka
paul heard a voice in hebrew.
In acts9:9 'rasul paulus' aka paul was blinded for
3 days. However in acts22:9&11 , all saw the light
but only 'rasul paulus' aka paul was temporary
blinded. This is a logical fallacy.
It can be clearly seen that 'rasul paulus' aka paul had
been lying. In (a) he demonstrated himself as a person
who subscribed to play acting just to lure people. In (b)
he admitted to be deceitful. In (c) demonstrates 'rasul
paulus' aka paul contradictions in him seeing jesus ,
therefore he was just lying. In addition he committed a
logical fallacy of him trying to provide credibility to his
tales.
One of the major traits of satan is that it is a liar. This
trait was consistent with 'rasul paulus' aka paul.
Therefore it can be concluded that 'rasul paulus' aka
paul is a prophet for satan.
As a further example and test, jesus in matt7:21-23 has
stated that people will only enter haven by doing the will
of the father and not under his name. However along
comes 'rasul paulus' aka paul in 1cor15:13-14 stating
that if there was no resurrection of christ , preaching
and faith is in vain. His preaching was/is exactly the
opposite of what jesus preached. Isn't 'rasul paulus'
aka paul the antichrist?
So Christians , are you a follower of a satanic cult with
the 3 in 1 god?
sam1528
Nabie Mesum bin Sahwat
news:bffd2398-7998-4a50...@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com
:
I think this is what the genuine satanic cult is :
According to SAHIH BUKHARI,Book 4 Volume 1 Number 229 & 231 Aisah
said: Mohammed, after having sex with his wives, washed his cloth and
went to pray in masjid while his wet cloth still stained with semen!
According to SUNAN ABU-DAWUD: Purification (Kitab Al-Taharah) Book 1,
Number 0270 Aisha said: when she, Aisha, was having menstruation,
Mohammed would uncovered her and put his head on her thighs!
What UNHOLINESS is this that Mohammed had for Allah?
Kwee Tiauw™
> Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
clearly Salman Rushdie has proven which book contains the Satanic
Verses
and the whole universe agreed to that :)) need we say more ???
Selamat menunggu waktu makan sahur, may your Moon God bless ya all
soleram
3bb69c...@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com :
> Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
> consider as the mighty prophet for christianity
since when Chritians regard Rasul Paulus as PROPHET ??? though he had
made lots of prophetic statements in his time, which is very normal for
Jesus's followers even till this very day , hello ....
he is called R-a-s-u-l (repeat : R-A-S-U-L) Paulus, hello again .......
LOL
Nabie Mesum bin Sahwat
> 'Rasul paulus' aka paul who was the author of
> 2cor11:14
> ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=
5127486
> [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
> into an angel of light.
>
> It is clear that 'rasul paulus' aka paul saw the light
> and by his definition he saw satan not jesus. Satan
> had transformed itself into a angel of light.
if that's your conclusion, obviously you promptly need to register for
a re-seat at your elementary school sammie boy
reading comprehension is very crucial ya know :))) and you are even
far from the level that people used to call "mediocre" , in fact you
are lack of it substantially my friend,(oh dear we pity you so much)
now wonder all your statements all this time are just erratically
wrong, coz they are simply craps and rubbish, they make no sense at
all
no we know why is it so difficult for you to digest, swallow and
understand what other people say
so take my advice, dont delay any single second, go ... go ..... take
a re-seat at your elementary school (kindergarten if necessary !! I am
serious), and ooh dont forget to ask for a discount from the
principal :))
you have our bless and support, dont be ashamed to start your life all
over again , we can wait :))
sam...@hotmail.com
wrote:
--snip--
>
> > One of the major traits of satan is that it is a liar. This
> > trait was consistent with 'rasul paulus' aka paul.
> > Therefore it can be concluded that 'rasul paulus' aka
> > paul is a prophet for satan.
>
> > As a further example and test, jesus in matt7:21-23 has
> > stated that people will only enter haven by doing the will
> > of the father and not under his name. However along
> > comes 'rasul paulus' aka paul in 1cor15:13-14 stating
> > that if there was no resurrection of christ , preaching
> > and faith is in vain. His preaching was/is exactly the
> > opposite of what jesus preached. Isn't 'rasul paulus'
> > aka paul the antichrist?
>
> > So Christians , are you a follower of a satanic cult with
> > the 3 in 1 god?
>
> > sam1528
>
> I think this is what the genuine satanic cult is :
>
> According to SAHIH BUKHARI,Book 4 Volume 1 Number 229 & 231 Aisah
> said: Mohammed, after having sex with his wives, washed his cloth and
> went to pray in masjid while his wet cloth still stained with semen!
>
The actual hadith is as follows :
ref : http://www.truthnet.org/Islam/Hadith/Bukhari/4/
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from
the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for
prayers while traces of water were still on it (water
spots were still visible).
** note your lie - its water stains not semen stain .....
> According to SUNAN ABU-DAWUD: Purification (Kitab Al-Taharah) Book 1,
> Number 0270 Aisha said: when she, Aisha, was having menstruation,
> Mohammed would uncovered her and put his head on her thighs!
> What UNHOLINESS is this that Mohammed had for Allah?
The actual hadith is as follows :
ref : http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/abudawood/001_sat.html
Book 1, Number 0270:
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
Umarah ibn Ghurab said that his paternal aunt
narrated to him that she asked Aisha: What if one
of us menstruates and she and her husband
have no bed except one? She replied: I relate to
you what the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him)
had done.
One night he entered (upon me) while I was
menstruating. He went to the place of his prayer,
that is, to the place of prayer reserved (for this purpose)
in his house. He did not return until I felt asleep
heavily, and he felt pain from cold. And he said:
Come near me. I said: I am menstruating. He said:
Uncover your thighs. I, therefore, uncovered both of
my thighs. Then he put his cheek and chest on my
thighs and I lent upon he until he became warm
and slept.
** what is so unholy about it , the prophet just slept on
her thighs.
Two things to notice :
1. You lied
2. You have a perverted mind
Both are traits of satan. Since you are a follower of
'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul of tarsus (a bounty
hunter) - we can conclude that you are a follower of
the satanic cult called christianity.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote innews:bffd2398-7998-4a50...@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com
The book 'satanic verses' by rushdie was a work of
friction.
ref : http://www.crf-usa.org/terror/rushdie.htm
excerpt : '... He pointed out that his book was, after all,
a work of fiction....'
Again , you lot have this inability to argue on facts.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:bffd2398-7998-4a50-ba4d-
> 3bb69c707...@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com :
>
> > Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
> > consider as the mighty prophet for christianity
>
> since when Chritians regard Rasul Paulus as PROPHET ??? though he had
> made lots of prophetic statements in his time, which is very normal for
> Jesus's followers even till this very day , hello ....
>
> he is called R-a-s-u-l (repeat : R-A-S-U-L) Paulus, hello again .......
> LOL
You sure?
ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusul
excerpt : '.... The Greek: aγγελος, angel meaning
"messenger" has the meaning of a
supernatural being ....'
Since the original bible was in greek (septuagint) ,
the greek meaning of 'rasul' is 'messenger' but of
supernatural qualities. Is 'rasul paulus' aka paul
aka saul (the bounty hunter) a supernatural being?
No wonder christians are confused people.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:bffd2398-7998-4a50-ba4d-
> 3bb69c707...@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com :
>
>
>
He he he , that is why I like poking at you christians. You
guys are so scared to comment on your biblical verses.
It was 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter)
definition of satan per 2cor11:14. By his definition , he
actually met satan and received instruction from satan.
I am sure you have noticed that most of your arguments
have been based on lies - trait of satan.
sam1528
him what to do. In essence , he was a maighty prophet
Lae Hutabarat
2bd572...@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com :
> ** note your lie - its water stains not semen stain .....
>
then its your hadithd that lies, .... which is obvious and "normal"
hehehehhe, knowing eslam that well :))
siloba-hutang
eb8822...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com :
> On Sep 12, 1:41 am, "Kwee Tiauw™" <KweeTi...@yummie.com> wrote:
>> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote innews:bffd2398-7998-4a50-ba4d-
3bb69c707eae@n38
> g2000prl.googlegroups.com
>> :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
>> > consider as the mighty prophet for christianity.
>>
>> > If we look into his testimonies and what he had
>> > recorded in the bible , we can be certain that
>> > this 'rasul paulus' or prophet paul was actually
>> > the prophet for satan (which of course has
>> > implications for christians).
>>
>> > As stated in the bible of how 'rasul paulus' aka
>> > paul supposedly met jesus per acts9:3
>> > ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte
>> 4870983
>> > [3] And as he journeyed, he came near
>> > Damascus: and suddenly there shined
>> > round about him a light from heaven:
>> > acts22:6
>> > [6] And it came to pass, that, as I made my
>> > journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus
>> > about noon, suddenly there shone from
>> > heaven a great light round about me.
>> > acts26:13
>> > [13] At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light
>> > from heaven, above the brightness of the
>> > sun, shining round about me and them
>> > which journeyed with me.
>>
>> > What did 'rasul paulus' aka paul saw? He saw a
>> > light and heard a voice supposedly that of jesus
>> > (as claimed by him).
>>
>> > 'Rasul paulus' aka paul who was the author of
>> > 2cor11:14
>> > ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte
>> 5127486
>> > [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
>> > into an angel of light.
>>
>> > It is clear that 'rasul paulus' aka paul saw the light
>> > and by his definition he saw satan not jesus. Satan
>> > had transformed itself into a angel of light.
>>
>> > Christians can argue that in context 2cor11:14 does
>> > not explicitly means angels per se. Satan can turn into
>> > someone good and the word angel signify this point
>> > in context. Therefore in context satan can transform
>> > itself to act like an angel and not limiting itself to be
>> > able to transform to anything good.
>>
>> > Tests to the above evidence :
>> > a) 1cor9:20-22
>> > ref :
>> > http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte
>> 5072031
>> > [20] And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I
>> > might gain the Jews; to them that are under
>> > the law, as under the law, that I might gain
>> > them that are under the law;
>> > [21] To them that are without law, as without law,
>> > (being not without law to God, but under the
>> > law to Christ,) that I might gain them that
> are
>> > without law.
>> > [22] To the weak became I as weak, that I might
>> > gain the weak: I am made all things to all
>> > men, that I might by all means save some.
>>
>> > This show that 'rasul paulus' aka paul is willing
>> > to play act to be anyone just to lure them. This
>> > is the identical tactics used by the christian
>> > missionaries of being deceitful.
>>
>> > b) 2cor12:16
>> > ref :
>> > http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte
>> 5127486
>> > [16] But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless,
>> > being crafty, I caught you with guile.
>>
>> > 'Rasul paulus' aka paul admited that he used
>> > guile or deceit or trickery. In other word he was
>> > a liar or a subscriber to 'takkiya'.
>>
>> > c) 'Rasul paulus' aka paul so call testimonies of
>> > him seeing jesus contradicted each other :
>> > ref :
>> > http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte
then why you islam tried so hard to get him and wanted to kill him ???
bwahahahahahhahahahahahaha
> ref : http://www.crf-usa.org/terror/rushdie.htm
> excerpt : '... He pointed out that his book was, after all,
> a work of fiction....'
>
Again , sammie boy you lot have this inability to use good your brain,
and that's also if you have one.
soleram
cb68b6...@v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com :
> On Sep 12, 2:21 am, soleram <asterix...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:bffd2398-7998-4a50-ba4d-
>> 3bb69c707...@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com :
>>
>> > Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
>> > consider as the mighty prophet for christianity
>>
>> since when Chritians regard Rasul Paulus as PROPHET ??? though he
had
>> made lots of prophetic statements in his time, which is very normal
for
>> Jesus's followers even till this very day , hello ....
>>
>> he is called R-a-s-u-l (repeat : R-A-S-U-L) Paulus, hello again
......
> .
>> LOL
>
> You sure?
> ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusul
> excerpt : '.... The Greek: aггелпт, angel meaning
> "messenger" has the meaning of a
> supernatural being ....'
>
> Since the original bible was in greek (septuagint) ,
> the greek meaning of 'rasul' is 'messenger' but of
> supernatural qualities. Is 'rasul paulus' aka paul
> aka saul (the bounty hunter) a supernatural being?
> No wonder christians are confused people.
>
> sam1528
"am I sure ??"
you are a muslim and I am the one who visit the Church every Sunday,
in case you miss this fact , hello .....
Paul has never been regarded as Nabi in Christianity, wake up man ...
**) dont push your luck to the edge
Tan Sing Kong™
@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com :
> On Sep 12, 2:34 am, Nabie Mesum bin Sahwat <muham...@pedophil.net>
> wrote:
>> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:bffd2398-7998-4a50-ba4d-
>> 3bb69c707...@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com :
>>
>>
>>
>> > 'Rasul paulus' aka paul who was the author of
>> > 2cor11:14
>> > ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte
have you registered for a re-seat as I advised ??
do NOT, repeat , do NOT , .... delay
why you risk yourself even further ???
reading comprehension is crucial, I tawld ya dear !
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:a26767dd-621d-409a-9d9a-
> 2bd5726b0...@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com :
>
> > ** note your lie - its water stains not semen stain .....
>
> then its your hadithd that lies, .... which is obvious and "normal"
>
> hehehehhe, knowing eslam that well :))
Another christian in denial. Firstly you lie and when
confronted with the truth , you accuse others of
lying.
Lying to cover a lie ..... not good yeah .....
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:34121957-88a7-4a36-93f4-
> eb88223a5...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com :
Then why lie against the truth. Rushdie in the end
admitted that he lied and his works was that of
fiction.
Me issit? I thought you had this inability to use your
brain as you swallowed the works of rushdie and
now being dismayed that he had admitted that his
works was fiction.
sam1528
donie
sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
> consider as the mighty prophet for christianity.
>
Sam, I may not advice you to rehears on your reading comprehension as
urged by mbiLL, but you should seriously consider freezing first your
Christianity understanding you derived from islamic teaching. Coz that
has led you astray in trying comprehending things, proven every now
and then. Why should you be repeatedly falling from the same mistake
of relying on misinformed qoran and islamic vewpoint, as far as your
desire to understand Chrisitanity is concerned?
You have ridiculed yourself because you project your great prophet
Muahmmat to be prophesied in bible, out of misinformation in your
qoran stating that "Jews and Chrisitians find Muhammat mentioned in
their scriptures." You don't even dare to ask your Jew and or
Chrisitans friends, if you have any, if they 'find' your so called
great prophet Muhammat foretold in the Bible.
How can we go intellectually into the issue you want to raise on
Christianity if in your introduction you always have misinformed
statement?
sam...@hotmail.com
--snip--
>
> >> since when Chritians regard Rasul Paulus as PROPHET ??? though he
> had
> >> made lots of prophetic statements in his time, which is very normal
> for
> >> Jesus's followers even till this very day , hello ....
>
> >> he is called R-a-s-u-l (repeat : R-A-S-U-L) Paulus, hello again
> ......
> > .
> >> LOL
>
> > You sure?
> > ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusul
> > "messenger" has the meaning of a
> > supernatural being ....'
>
> > Since the original bible was in greek (septuagint) ,
> > the greek meaning of 'rasul' is 'messenger' but of
> > supernatural qualities. Is 'rasul paulus' aka paul
> > aka saul (the bounty hunter) a supernatural being?
> > No wonder christians are confused people.
>
> > sam1528
>
> "am I sure ??"
>
> you are a muslim and I am the one who visit the Church every Sunday,
> in case you miss this fact , hello .....
>
> Paul has never been regarded as Nabi in Christianity, wake up man ...
>
> **) dont push your luck to the edge
Issit? Then what is the meaning of rasul? Why do
you call him 'rasul paulus'? Lets look at acts26:26-28
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4870983
[26] For the king knoweth of these things, before whom
also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of
these things are hidden from him; for this thing was
not done in a corner.
[27] King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know
that thou believest.
[28] Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest
me to be a Christian
In verse 27 , while bullshitting king agrippa ,'rasul paulus'
aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) admitted to the poor
king that he was a prophet by implying that he had help
from god and his message is of the prophets and moses
in order to persuade the poor king into his 'christianity'.
So what have you learnt in church on sundays? Do you
read the bible for yourself or just swallow what is told
to you?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
--snip--
>
> have you registered for a re-seat as I advised ??
>
> do NOT, repeat , do NOT , .... delay
>
> why you risk yourself even further ???
>
> reading comprehension is crucial, I tawld ya dear !
Fun isn't it. You cannot refute , you go on to talk
about something else.
Waiting for you to refute me. So is it true that either
'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter)
was either a prophet for satan or a false prophet.
Either way he was a prophet for satan.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
> > consider as the mighty prophet for christianity.
>
> Sam, I may not advice you to rehears on your reading comprehension as
> urged by mbiLL, but you should seriously consider freezing first your
> Christianity understanding you derived from islamic teaching. Coz that
> has led you astray in trying comprehending things, proven every now
> and then. Why should you be repeatedly falling from the same mistake
> of relying on misinformed qoran and islamic vewpoint, as far as your
> desire to understand Chrisitanity is concerned?
>
Hmmm funny , all of the verses quoted are from your
bible. Have you not been reading your bible? The
presentation structure was in a form of :
1. claim
2. proof or evidence
3. test of the proof or evidence
4. conclusion
[compare it to your repeatedly blotch attempts of
trying to prove the so called carnal desires of Prophet
Muhammad (saw) via conspiracy theory from just a
phrase from a verse , in this case full verses were
quoted]
I do not see it to be from the islamic viewpoint. The
verses quoted are from your bible. We call it as we
see it. If you think there is a comprehension issue
then by all means pinpoint where is the problem.
Simple isn't it.
> You have ridiculed yourself because you project your great prophet
> Muahmmat to be prophesied in bible, out of misinformation in your
> qoran stating that "Jews and Chrisitians find Muhammat mentioned in
> their scriptures." You don't even dare to ask your Jew and or
> Chrisitans friends, if you have any, if they 'find' your so called
> great prophet Muhammat foretold in the Bible.
>
> How can we go intellectually into the issue you want to raise on
> Christianity if in your introduction you always have misinformed
> statement?
I do not see it that way. The muslims are laughing
at you guys. Until now you dare not pinpoint as to
where is the error of comprehension or interpretation
of the quoted biblical verses. You also need to be
reminded that until now you do not have the bravado
to refute the biblical verses quoted for the case of
Prophet Muhammad (saw) being foretold in your
bible. So how?
Asking a jew or christian? From what I have seen ,
you guys are not even aware that 'rasul paulus' aka
paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) provided contradictory
testimony of him meeting the so called jesus. If he
provided contradictory testimony ,highly likely he was
a liar. Even he admitted to have subscribed to deceit.
Isn't that the trait of satan. He saw the light and by his
definition is satan. What else can we say as its very
clear in the verses quoted.
So far you have not challenge the quoted verses. Then
I would assume that you are in agreement that 'rasul
paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) was
indeed a prophet for satan.
sam1528
donie
> On Sep 12, 3:54 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
> > > consider as the mighty prophet for christianity.
>
> > Sam, I may not advice you to rehears on your reading comprehension as
> > urged by mbiLL, but you should seriously consider freezing first your
> > Christianity understanding you derived from islamic teaching. Coz that
> > has led you astray in trying comprehending things, proven every now
> > and then. Why should you be repeatedly falling from the same mistake
> > of relying on misinformed qoran and islamic vewpoint, as far as your
> > desire to understand Chrisitanity is concerned?
> Hmmm funny , all of the verses quoted are from your
> bible. Have you not been reading your bible? The
Dismissed first your statement intro "Let us look at 'rasul paulus'
whom christians
consider as the mighty prophet for christianity" or what is your
understanding of "mighty prophet." How do you derive such conclusion?
I have learned from our lengthy discussion at Proof? that unless we
clear from the onset the assumptions from which we expand our
discussion we go no where. You keep getting hurt and uncomfortable coz
I was sticking to focus on exposing naked the disqualification of your
so called great prophet Muhammat. Just because your call Muhammat as
great prophet, you can not just claim out of the blue christians
consider Rosul Paulus as mighty prophet. If you bother to read my an
early response you would see that, we never call Paulus a prophet let
alone, might prophet.
You can not just bump into discussing Christianity with preconceived
ideas fed by misinformed qoran and islamic teaching. That has proven
as self defeating and self ridiculing as shown when you start
suggesting Muhammat was prophesied in the Bible, and initiate the
discussion by quoting quranic passage that state: "...Jews and
Christians find muhammat written in their scriptures.." They do not.
You can easily check if that is factual or fantasy by asking any Jews
or Chrisitans you know. You will never dare to check, coz the truth
hurts, nah?
Tan Sing Kong™
@b30g2000prf.googlegroups.com :
satanic verses is so crysrtal clear revealing the true satan :))
pls_e...@yahoo.com
wrote:
According to SAHIH BUKHARI,Book 4 Volume 1 Number 229 & 231 Aisah
said:
" Mohammed, after having sex with his wives, washed his cloth and
went to pray in masjid while his wet cloth still stained with
2] Sam1528 replied to the above FOOLISHLY:
The actual hadith is as follows :
ref : http://www.truthnet.org/Islam/Hadith/Bukhari/4/
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from
the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for
prayers while traces of water were still on it (water
spots were still visible).
** note your lie - its water stains not semen stain ...
3] Please_explain REPLIED TO SAM1528:
Sam1528, how long do you like to remain foolsih?
Water WILL NEVER STAIN CLOTHES; but Semen WILL STAIN CLOTHES.
AND DO YOU READ YOUR QURAN LIKE YOU READ THE HADDITH?
Where does it say "its water stains"???
The relative Haddith says "Water spots were still visible" and not "
its water stains". Stop lying !
WATER ON CLOTHES WILL NEVER HOLD SPOTS unless the water is
CONTAMINATED with sticky substance like semen, then the impure water
will hold spots like on the clothes of Mohammad who wore to Masjid to
pray or rather recite prayers after he - Mohammad - had sex with all
of his nine wives IN ONE NIGHT!
Tell me: " HOW HOLY WAS MOHAMMAD?"
AMEN IN CHRIST JESUS
Nabie Mesum bin Sahwat
@s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com :
Again , sammie boy you lot have this inability to use good of your
brain, and that's also if you have one.
Let's just pray so God would give you one, so then we can sit together
and start the proper talking, otherwise ..... (I dont have the heart
to continue this sentece) ......
soleram
@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com :
> On Sep 12, 1:56 pm, soleram <asterix...@gmail.com> wrote:
> --snip--
>>
>> >> since when Chritians regard Rasul Paulus as PROPHET ??? though
he
>> had
>> >> made lots of prophetic statements in his time, which is very
normal
>> for
>> >> Jesus's followers even till this very day , hello ....
>>
>> >> he is called R-a-s-u-l (repeat : R-A-S-U-L) Paulus, hello again
>> ......
>> > .
>> >> LOL
>>
>> > You sure?
>> > ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusul
>> > excerpt : '.... The Greek: aггелпт, angel meaning
remember sammy boy , you are a muslim and I am the one who visit the
Tan Sing Kong™
@a18g2000pra.googlegroups.com :
you re not listening , aint ya sammy boy ?
pls_e...@yahoo.com
pls_e...@yahoo.com
<nob...@noplace.com> wrote CRITICIZING foolishly::
" May Jesus save you when you don't do what jesus has done:
circumcision, fasting, no eating of pork".
REPLYING to the above CRITICISM of Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad:
1] Circumcision
After the crucification and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Son of
God- Jesus Christ -started delivering the Word of God that covered the
New Covenant which renewed the Old Covenant mentioned by Jeremiah
31:31-34 biblically known as the New Testament to his disciples; and
under the New Covenant SALVATION is by grace of God as it is no more
by the Law of Moses. Hence, no circumcision is required anymore as
Christians are now saved by grace of God rather than the Law of Moses;
2] Fasting
We Christians do fast, but IN SECRET. We do not proclaim the fast of
30 days like Ramadan or 40 days like hyprocrites do but according to
what Jesus instructed in the Holy Bible of Matthew 6:16 - 18:
"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad
countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto
men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou,
when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; That thou
appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is IN SECRET:
and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly"; and
3] Eating of Pork
Christians are allowed to eat whatever things that God had created
including PORK under the New Covenant: for Jesus says in Matthew 15:11
" Not that which goes into the mouth defiles a man; but that which
comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man".
IN OTHER WORDS, Jesus is saying THAT ALTHOUGH YOU MAY EAT PORK, IT
DEFILES YOU NOT but the lies you Muslims are taqiyaing[=lying] while
you propagate Islam is what defiles Muslims.
READ THIS PROOF:
Proof shows that Mohammad FABRICATED the Quran and Mohammad confessed
that he lied and deceived all Muslims:
1] The True Allah[God Almighty] say:
"But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I
have not commanded him to speak . . . that prophet shall die." GOD
(Deuteronomy18:20)[1] of the Holy Bible.
Mohammad confessed his sin of FABRICATING THE QURAN:
"I, MOHAMMAD, have fabricated things against God and have imputed to
Him[ALLAH] words which He[ALLAH] has not spoken." ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari
6:111)[2] - available at website: www.answeringislam.org/Authors/Wood/deuteronomy_deductions.htm
- Cached
2] Aisha, THE BABY WIFE OF MOHAMMAD said that Mohammed confessed that
he had LIED and DECEIVED.
According to SAHIH BUKHARI, BOOK 12: Characteristics of Prayer Volume
1, Book 12, Number 795, MOHAMMED CONFESSED THAT HE WAS A LIAR AND A
MAN FULL OF DECEITS to his fellow Muslims including Aisha.
3] Mohammad had lied:
1]MOHAMMED HAD NOT EVEN 1 WITNESS TO AFFIRM HIS CLAIM THAT HE WAS THE
LAST MESSENGER;
2]MOHAMMED LIED that Allah had given the Muslims the Covenant of
Abraham, but the Quran has not the Law of God;
3]MOHAMMED LIED THAT HE WAS AN ARAB and a HEBREW. How could Mohammed
have 2 biological FATHERS-1 Arab and 1 Hebrew?
4]MOHAMMED LIED THAT A DAY OF FAST IN RAMADAN IS ONLY 12 HOURS WHEN A
DAY IS 24 HOURS,and all ancient prophets fasted 24 hours a day WHILE
MOHAMMAD FASTED falsely 12 hours for daylight only;
5]MOHAMMED LIED THAT HE SPLIT THE MOON AND THE MOON IS STILL 1 NOT 2;
6]MOHAMMD LIED THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT[Sura 15:19 & 67:15], but we all
know the earth is round;
7]MOHAMMED LIED THAT ALLAH ALLOWS 4 WIVES BUT MOHAMMED HAD 30 WIVES;
8]MOHAMMED HAD MARRIED A BABY WIFE Aisha 6 who was young enough to be
his great, great, great grand-daughter when he -Mohammed-was 59;
9]MOHAMMED HAD MARRIED AN ELDERLY woman old enough to be his mother
named Khatijah 40 when he -Mohammed- was 25.
To verify THE LIES OF MOHAMMED, go to websites:
1] www.apostatesofislam,com
2] www.faithfreedom.org
3] www.answering-islam.org
AMEN IN CHRIST JESUS
Frank Arthur
brotherhood and happiness then you are ignorant of history.
Or if Islam is a religion of peace why are Sunni Muslims & Shiite
Muslims
slaughter and torture each other by the tens of thousands?
Reason and Science or Religion and superstition?
All religions are based on "belief" not "facts".
Things like "heaven" ,"72 virgins", "Garden of Eden with a talking
snake","Angels","Ghosts","Noah's Ark", "Jesus walking on
water","witches"& "Moses getting the 10 Commandments from God" are all
"beliefs" and contain not even a shred of evidence
any of these childish things ever existed. Why would they be taught in
Public Schools- or posted in Public buildings financved by people of
all beliefs,
other than to explain the difference between "facts" & "beliefs"?
Judaism,Christianity & Islam were religions written during periods of
extreme
ignorance. The people who wrote these books had no knowledge of the
Solar System,
the fact that the Earth was round or that the Sun was the center of
the Solar System,
the origins of the Universe,the Decimal System of Measurements, Germs
or Bacteria, Antibiotics,X-Rays,Dinosaurs and other Pre-historic
animals,Natural Selection, Sciences or even that North America,
China,or the Polar Ice Caps even existed. Can you imagine such a
"belief system" based on ignorance and superstition as religions do?
Or people
who believe ancient books possess magic powers or hold "sacred
truths"?
I prefer reason, logic,science and ethics.Can you really believe
"Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt"?
<pls_e...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:63abee2c-97cc-4625...@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
verifying...@yahoo.com
wa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
A small piece of History for our future Generation
Hitler's public relations manager, Goebbels, once said,
'If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.'
The time has arrived for us to record our history as the facts tell
us
and not as we would like to wish it for. The truth will never hurt
anyone.
Lies, always will.
2] pls_explain replies as follows:
Dear norsaini abdul wahab,
Yes, AMEN to: "The truth will never hurt anyone: Lies! Always will"
Very well said, norsaini! Let the truth of the falsehood of Islam be
revealed so that you Muslims will not remain lied to by Mohammad like
the German were lied to by Hitler leading to destruction!
Nevertheless, Goebbels was not proven right: for LIE of the Aryan Race
HAD NEVER BECOME TRUE because THE LIE OF HITLER WAS PROVEN TO BE FALSE
by the fact that the world knew Hitler was a evil man propagating the
ARYAN RACE to deceive the Germans to conquer the world but deceived
not the British and the American who had Jesus Christ as the Teacher
of the Truth!
Jesus says in Matthew 15:11 about lying:
" Not that which goes into the mouth defiles a man; but that which
comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man".
IN OTHER WORDS, Jesus is saying THAT ALTHOUGH YOU MAY EAT PORK, IT
DEFILES YOU NOT but the lies you Muslims are taqiyaing[=lying] while
you propagate Islam is what defiles Muslims.
Hence, no matter how much mullahs and imams lie in the majids or
online, Islam will be proven to be a lie of Mohammad !
READ THE PROOF:
Proof shows that Mohammad confessed FABRICATING the Quran and Mohammad
Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad
...
> I prefer reason, logic,science and ethics.Can you really believe
reason: science beleives that reason must be based on facts or whatever
facts exist at the moment in time.
For example the existence of god. There is no proof that God does not
exist whereas there are lots of circumstancial evidences that god
exists, so making a hypothesis that god exists explains many things.
If you really believe in science, then you cannot avoid believing in god
but you may not have a strong belief because after all, all scientific
theories are just hypothesis, which includes Eistein's Relativity theory
which assumes the fact that the speed of light is constant.
logic:
logic is only applicable when there are fact, failing which, hypothesis,
which are just based on assumptions, based on whatever facts available.
In the case of lack of fact such as the existence of god, logic fails,
but it does not stop scientists from pursing experiments to find facts.
Similarly for the existence of god.
science:
is a methodology that is based on facts. No facts, i.e. no fact to prove
the non-existence of god, means that god must exist, and science implies
that you don't need to explain what god is, or why it exists, as long as
it matches with the facts around us.
That is why true scientists all believe in god, at worst, as a
hypothesis to explain the unexplained, because it is more plausible than
the ridiculous, "it just happens".
ethic:
It is meaningless if it is not based on value systems. If use your
feelings as the basis, it will lead to the destruction of the human
race. The needs of many overide the need of a few.
> "Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt"?
>
It may just be a metaphor.
...
sam...@hotmail.com
You then need to read the post again and again
and this time try to understand it. What is the meaning
of 'rasul'? What is the term that you use for people
who gets (or talks to god) revelation and then
preach the so called revelation. Didn't 'rasul paulus'
aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) claimed that
he talked to god and received instruction or revelation
from god and started preaching. The term 'rasul
paulus' came from you.
Was he not a 'mighty' prophet? He has managed to
preach the opposite to what was preached by your
'lord' jesus. The best part is that you guys believed
him more than your 'lord' jesus. Let us look at a
few examples :
- jesus in matt7:21-23 has stated that people will
only enter haven by doing the will of the father and
not under his name. However along comes 'rasul
paulus' aka paul in 1cor15:13-14 stating that if
there was no resurrection of christ , preaching
and faith is in vain
- Did jesus ever state that he was god or son of
god and demanded to be worshiped? However
along comes 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul
(the bounty hunter) who stated the opposite as
in acts9:20
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4870983
[20] And straightway he preached Christ in the
synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
- Did your 'lord' jesus ever said that he was willing
to die and be resurrected to take away your sins?
Along comes 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the
bounty hunter) who attested in HIS gospel of such
per 2tim2:8
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5257901
[8] Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of
David was raised from the dead according to
my gospel:
In fact your 'lord' jesus in his own words stated that
he was only preaching to the israelites. You guys do
not even come into the picture as per matt15:24
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4445790
[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto
the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Me getting getting hurt and uncomfortable because
you were focused on exposing naked the disqualification
of Prophet Muhammad (saw)? You are delusional and
you give yourself more credit than you deserved. 400
plus combined posts in thread 'proof?' and so far you
have established nothing. All of your arguments have
been broken. You were so bad that you had to be
mocked and implored to come up with a stronger
argument. All you have is a feeble conspiracy theory
centered on a phrase from a verse. Your proof or
evidence was wild , spurious and speculative. When
tests were applied to your so called proof or evidence
, it broke down. When questioned , you ran away ,
came back later , harp on the same issues and
pretended nothing happened. There has not been any
instance of uncomfortableness or running away from
the defense of Prophet Muhammad (saw). All of your
posts have been answered and refuted. In fact the
arguments came back harder (in which you then ran
away) when your christian values as derived from
your bible was compared. So now how?
> You can not just bump into discussing Christianity with preconceived
> ideas fed by misinformed qoran and islamic teaching. That has proven
> as self defeating and self ridiculing as shown when you start
> suggesting Muhammat was prophesied in the Bible, and initiate the
> discussion by quoting quranic passage that state: "...Jews and
> Christians find muhammat written in their scriptures.." They do not.
> You can easily check if that is factual or fantasy by asking any Jews
> or Chrisitans you know. You will never dare to check, coz the truth
> hurts, nah?
Do not practice empty talk. As far as I can see the post
on 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter)
case contained only quoted verses from the bible. Where
is the islamic preconceived ideas? We call it as we see
it. I am and have been inviting you to refute me of the
quoted biblical verses. So far nothing from you. Does it
mean that you are in agreement?
The case of Prophet Muhammad (saw) being foretold
in your bible was presented. Did you even dare to refute
the quoted biblical verses? No you did not. Simple isn't
it , pinpoint which verse that you disagreed. Inform of
what is your disagreement and propose an alternate
point or interpretation and test the verse and the alternate
point or interpretation. You have not done that have you?
If not then I can assume that you have agreed in silence.
How has it been self defeating as you have so far failed
to provide an alternate proof or evidence that is successful
when tested. I am and have been asking you christians
on these 2 cases. Until now you have been incapable
of responding as to where and what is the error in the
quoted biblical verses and their interpretation. It looks
to be more of your problem not us muslims. The truth
sure hurts but its hurting you not us.
Quoting major yeats brown in his book 'The Bengal
Lancers' :
“.... No heathen tribe has conceived so grotesque an
idea involving as it does the assumption that man
was born with a hereditary stain for which he was not
responsible; and it was to be atoned for, and that the
Creator, of all things, had to sacrifice His only ‘son’ to
neutralize this mysterious curse....”
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:27ab85ac-2aae-493b-8ec9-7fe5da0235d8
Satanic verses as admitted by rushdie was a work
of fiction. However lying as what you have been
doing is a trait of satan.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
Typical liar you are. Common sense is not very common
with you. What did the actual hadith state : '... while traces
of water were still on it (water spots were still visible)....'
Did the hadith state water stain? No , it stated of traces
of water were still on it. In other words the cloth was
still wet. ie. water spots can still be seen.
Are you talking about the actual genuine hadith or the
one from your perverted convoluted mind?
How 'holy' was Prophet Muhammad (saw)? Hmmm ,
I would say a lot holier and better than your biblical
david and solomon. I leave it to you to find out the
philandering ways of the biblical david and solomon.
If they are bad , so is your christian values as your
christian values is derived from your bible.
So what if Prophet Muhammad (saw) had sex with all
nine wives in a night. They were his wives. Your biblical
david and solomon had numerous concubines (note:
there is no matrimonial ties). The biblical david lusted
and bedded the wife of other and then sent her
husband to die in battle.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
wrote:
--snip--
>
> > Then why lie against the truth. Rushdie in the end
> > admitted that he lied and his works was that of
> > fiction.
>
> > Me issit? I thought you had this inability to use your
> > brain as you swallowed the works of rushdie and
> > now being dismayed that he had admitted that his
> > works was fiction.
>
> > sam1528
>
> Again , sammie boy you lot have this inability to use good of your
> brain, and that's also if you have one.
>
> Let's just pray so God would give you one, so then we can sit together
> and start the proper talking, otherwise ..... (I dont have the heart
> to continue this sentece) ......
Its ok , do have the heart. I am waiting for you to
refute me. What did you do ........ nothing actually.
How to talk if you are so scared to even comment
on the quoted biblical verses?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:71d82ae0-557b-4c4a-9cb0-fb5d415f3ec5
> @p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com :
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 12, 1:56 pm, soleram <asterix...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > --snip--
>
> >> >> since when Chritians regard Rasul Paulus as PROPHET ??? though
> he
> >> had
> >> >> made lots of prophetic statements in his time, which is very
> normal
> >> for
> >> >> Jesus's followers even till this very day , hello ....
>
> >> >> he is called R-a-s-u-l (repeat : R-A-S-U-L) Paulus, hello again
> >> ......
> >> > .
> >> >> LOL
>
> >> > You sure?
> >> > ref :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusul
So what have you learnt in church? So far nothing as
I can see. Do you read your bible?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote in news:5b7d9543-f76d-404e-917b-84f7fed81048
Fun isn't it , you cannot even focus to refute the biblical
verses quoted.
So are you in agreement that 'rasul paulus' aka paul
aka saul (the bounty hunter) was a prophet for
satan.
sam1528
donie
> Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
> consider as the mighty prophet for christianity.
>
> recorded in the bible , we can be certain that
> this 'rasul paulus' or prophet paul was actually
> the prophet for satan (which of course has
> implications for christians).
>
> As stated in the bible of how 'rasul paulus' aka
> paul supposedly met jesus per acts9:3
> [3] And as he journeyed, he came near
> Damascus: and suddenly there shined
> round about him a light from heaven:
> acts22:6
> [6] And it came to pass, that, as I made my
> journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus
> about noon, suddenly there shone from
> heaven a great light round about me.
> acts26:13
> [13] At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light
> from heaven, above the brightness of the
> sun, shining round about me and them
> which journeyed with me.
>
> What did 'rasul paulus' aka paul saw? He saw a
> light and heard a voice supposedly that of jesus
> (as claimed by him).
>
> 'Rasul paulus' aka paul who was the author of
> 2cor11:14
> [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
> into an angel of light.
>
> It is clear that 'rasul paulus' aka paul saw the light
> and by his definition he saw satan not jesus. Satan
> had transformed itself into a angel of light.
>
> Christians can argue that in context 2cor11:14 does
> not explicitly means angels per se. Satan can turn into
> someone good and the word angel signify this point
> in context. Therefore in context satan can transform
> itself to act like an angel and not limiting itself to be
> able to transform to anything good.
>
> Tests to the above evidence :
> a) 1cor9:20-22
> [20] And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I
> might gain the Jews; to them that are under
> the law, as under the law, that I might gain
> them that are under the law;
> [21] To them that are without law, as without law,
> (being not without law to God, but under the
> without law.
> [22] To the weak became I as weak, that I might
> gain the weak: I am made all things to all
> men, that I might by all means save some.
>
> This show that 'rasul paulus' aka paul is willing
> to play act to be anyone just to lure them. This
> is the identical tactics used by the christian
> missionaries of being deceitful.
>
> b) 2cor12:16
> [16] But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless,
> being crafty, I caught you with guile.
>
> 'Rasul paulus' aka paul admited that he used
> guile or deceit or trickery. In other word he was
> a liar or a subscriber to 'takkiya'.
>
> c) 'Rasul paulus' aka paul so call testimonies of
> him seeing jesus contradicted each other :
> stated that people will only enter haven by doing the will
> of the father and not under his name. However along
> comes 'rasul paulus' aka paul in 1cor15:13-14 stating
> that if there was no resurrection of christ , preaching
> opposite of what jesus preached. Isn't 'rasul paulus'
> aka paul the antichrist?
>
> So Christians , are you a follower of a satanic cult with
> the 3 in 1 god?
>
> sam1528
Here the “great prophet Paul, SAW/PBUH” (just following Sam’s way of
naming anybody the way he likes without giving benefit why he does so)
was preaching through letter to the Christians in Corinth, to be alert
of potential deceit of people who would quick to self proclaim being a
prophet. Yes, he reminded Christ followers that, that Satan can
disguise himself in many form, including transforming into an angel of
light. Some NT verses warn the advent of self proclaiming prophets who
outwardly appear angelic but inside was full of deceit.
NT also facilitates the manner to test those who claim to have the
prophetic messages, “you can judge a tree by the fruit that it
bears.” This is in fact the theme of the manner I suggest when you
try to suggest and prove that your prophet Muhammat was being
prophesied in the Bible which I rephrase BEGIN WITH THE END IN MIND.
Unless you managed to submit alternative tests, this is the only
reasonable to evaluate and separate lunatics from pious and righteous
prophet
The way you connect that with the incidence where Paul, SAW/PBUH was
‘caught’ by the Holy Spirit where Paul, SAW was swarmed by blinding
light, as if what Paul, SAW or PBUH saw was Satan, reflect your
reluctance to measure the prophetic quality of anybody including your
so called great prophet, Muhammat. Just because you can not come up
with any quality at all of your prophet Muhammat doesn’t mean that you
can force other people not to exercise this judging a tree by the
fruit that it bears test.
The quality of Paul, SAW change drastically from a cruel persecutor of
Christians to become humble shepherd of new churches growing in
several places where he addresses his epistles, from taking up sword
to urging Christians to love as humanized by Christ and to bear
fruits. Suffice to say that after his encounter with the blinding
light, Paul SAW bore better fruits.
donie
> Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
Now let’s examine what a satanic cult is, the title you give to the
thread. I don’t know how you arrive at such a title. Isn’t that
reflecting the hurt you feel when I dismantle your great prophet
cruelty and immorality of your prophet and the fact that you yourself
could not exhibit any quality that he had?
Talking about cult remind me of Jim Jones and his followers. The
followers of Jim Jones worshiped that psychopath to the extent that
when a few of them managed to escape his cult, others assassinated
them. This is true in the case of all cults. Cultists love their
leader to the point of worshiping him and are extremely offended if
anyone criticizes their leader. Sound very familiar, isn’t it?
Jesus has been vilified on many occasions. When moslems mobs attack
churches and killed innocent people residing in the church compound
they attacked, they wrote in Bahasa: “Jesus taik.” Christians took
part in some secular organization that urged the authority to take a
legal measure, but we forgave the offenders, following Jesus’s
saying : “forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing.”
Muslims rioted and killed innocent people when a few cartoons of
Muhammad were drawn. This alone is enough proof that Islam is a cult
and not a religion. Who said beliefs should be respected? Only those
who cannot defend their beliefrationally demand protection against
criticism for their faith. Because their faithis disgusting they want
to force others to respect their faith through legislation.
If Muslims could answer the criticisms raised against Islam, they
would not act so violently. They resort to censorship and violence
because they have failed in the arena of reason. Why the followers of
no other religion act in this way and why the followers of cults do?
It is because this behavior is cultic behavior.
Now as to satanic, don’t you see that a cult that promote hatred
toward others as satanic?
Aren’t you familiar with the following passages?
The unbelievers are the vilest of animals (8:55).
Slay the unbelievers wherever they find them (2:191)
Fight them and show them harshness (9:123)
Do not take them as friends and helpers (3:28)
And, Smite their necks (47:4)
Tan Sing Kong™
@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com :
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of
the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were
still on it (water spots were still visible).
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 230:
Narrated 'Aisha:
as above (229).
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 231:
Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:
I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied,
"I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go
for the prayer while water spots were still visible. "
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 232:
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
I heard Sulaiman bin Yasar talking about the clothes soiled with
semen. He said that 'Aisha had said, "I used to wash it off the
clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayers while water
spots were still visible on them.
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 233:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even
then I used to notice one or more spots on them.
Tan Sing Kong™
@a2g2000prm.googlegroups.com :
Narrated 'Aisha:
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 230:
Narrated 'Aisha:
as above (229).
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 231:
Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:
I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied,
"I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go
for the prayer while water spots were still visible. "
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 232:
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
I heard Sulaiman bin Yasar talking about the clothes soiled with
semen. He said that 'Aisha had said, "I used to wash it off the
clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayers while water
spots were still visible on them.
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 233:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even
Kwee Tiauw™
sam...@hotmail.com
--snip--
>
> Here the “great prophet Paul, SAW/PBUH” (just following Sam’s way of
> naming anybody the way he likes without giving benefit why he does so)
> was preaching through letter to the Christians in Corinth, to be alert
> of potential deceit of people who would quick to self proclaim being a
> prophet. Yes, he reminded Christ followers that, that Satan can
> disguise himself in many form, including transforming into an angel of
> light. Some NT verses warn the advent of self proclaiming prophets who
> outwardly appear angelic but inside was full of deceit.
>
To be technically correct , you were the one who called
him 'rasul paulus'. I suppose I do not have to cut and
paste your post as you will probably remember it. I am
just following on to you of calling him 'rasul paulus'.
What you commented in corinth is quite accurate but
it has not answered my question of you challenging
the biblical verses quoted. Its like I am asking 'abc' and
you answering 'xyz'. So in this case who did he met?
Satan or jesus? From 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka
saul (the bounty hunter) definition , it was satan.
> NT also facilitates the manner to test those who claim to have the
> prophetic messages, “you can judge a tree by the fruit that it
> bears.” This is in fact the theme of the manner I suggest when you
> try to suggest and prove that your prophet Muhammat was being
> prophesied in the Bible which I rephrase BEGIN WITH THE END IN MIND.
> Unless you managed to submit alternative tests, this is the only
> reasonable to evaluate and separate lunatics from pious and righteous
> prophet
>
Be more specific in your your definition. Judging a tree
by its fruits is broad. You need to be specific. What is
it about? Is it piety , morals, having a code of conduct ,
etc. In retrospect , I believe that you have missed the
mark of your so called 'BEGIN WITH THE END IN
MIND'. In the case of Prophet Muhammad (saw) being
mentioned in your bible , the end in mind was to prove
that he was actually being foretold in your bible. Isn't
that the fulfillment of the phrase. I would say it has met
your so called 'begin with the end in mind' criteria.
However just look at your attempt to 'scrutinise' the
prophet's character. Its all blotched up and very messy.
Did you subscribe to your 'BEGIN WITH THE END IN
MIND'. I do not think so. Where do you go from here?
> The way you connect that with the incidence where Paul, SAW/PBUH was
> ‘caught’ by the Holy Spirit where Paul, SAW was swarmed by blinding
> light, as if what Paul, SAW or PBUH saw was Satan, reflect your
> reluctance to measure the prophetic quality of anybody including your
> so called great prophet, Muhammat. Just because you can not come up
> with any quality at all of your prophet Muhammat doesn’t mean that you
> can force other people not to exercise this judging a tree by the
> fruit that it bears test.
>
This again comes to your earlier question of the quality
of a prophet? I have provided you with such from an
islamic standpoint. Whereas you admitted that
christians have none. This clearly shows that you do
not even have a base of reference. If you do not have it
then how are you going to judge the so called 'tree'?
Have I been reluctant to judge the quality of Prophet
Muhammad (saw)? I do not think so. This showed
that you did not even bother to read and understand
what has been given to you. The burden to proof
otherwise is on you as you made the claim against
Prophet Muhammad (saw). So far you have proved
nothing and have gained nothing. Now you are appealing
in emotion that I am reluctant to judge the quality of Prophet
Muhammad (saw) but having selective memory loss
that the information has been provided to you. That is
not right nor honest. Subscribing to the 'pauline doctrine'
I see.
> The quality of Paul, SAW change drastically from a cruel persecutor of
> Christians to become humble shepherd of new churches growing in
> several places where he addresses his epistles, from taking up sword
> to urging Christians to love as humanized by Christ and to bear
> fruits. Suffice to say that after his encounter with the blinding
> light, Paul SAW bore better fruits.
I differ in opinion. If you look into his 'gospels' carefully
you would see that he saw it as a big opportunity to
jump into the bandwagon of being a preacher to the
'new' religion. He was just a opportunist and used
religion for his own benefit.
He was never handpicked by jesus and by what jesus
did in the progression of Matthew 10:1 , Mark 1:16-18 ,
Mark 1:19-20 , John 1:43 and Mark 3:13-19 . 'Rasul
Paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) never
met , walked and talked to jesus. So what did he do ,
he concocted that jesus appeared to him as in acts9:
3-12 , acts22: 6-12 and acts26:13-17. Note that his
testimonies contradict each other. In other words this
man could not even lie consistently.
Even jesus had given warning to the arrival of this man.
as per john5:43
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4760421
[43] I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me
not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye
will receive.
Along came 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty
hunter) as per acts21:39 and 2cor11:22
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4870983
[39] But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus,
a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I
beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5127486
[22] Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so
am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
We will temporary pause at this point. Your bible has
stated that 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty
hunter) was never part of the 'team'. He on his own
inconsistently lied that he saw jesus and was 'ordained'
by the so called jesus. Even jesus in his own words
have warned people of this man's arrival. Jesus came
in his father' name but 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul
(the bounty hunter) came in his name. The test is per
the initial post , this man was just a liar. Isn't lying a
trait of satan. Do you want me to continue , you will not
like it .....
sam1528
soleram
@s20g2000prd.googlegroups.com :
Kwee Tiauw™
@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com :
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
expla...@yahoo.com
Proof shows that Mohammad FABRICATED the Quran and Mohammad confessing
that he lied and deceived all Muslims:
1] The True Allah[God Almighty] say:
"But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I
have not commanded him to speak . . . that prophet shall die." GOD
(Deuteronomy18:20)[1] of the Holy Bible.
Mohammad confessed his sin of FABRICATING THE QURAN:
"I, MOHAMMAD, have fabricated things against God and have imputed to
Him[ALLAH] words which He[ALLAH] has not spoken." ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari
6:111)[2]
www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/deuteronomy_deductions.htm
2] Aisha, THE BABY WIFE OF MOHAMMAD said that Mohammed confessed that
he had LIED and DECEIVED.
According to SAHIH BUKHARI, BOOK 12: Characteristics of Prayer Volume
1, Book 12, Number 795, MOHAMMED CONFESSED THAT HE WAS A LIAR AND A
MAN FULL OF DECEITS to his fellow Muslims including Aisha.
3] Mohammad had lied:
1]MOHAMMED HAD NOT EVEN 1 WITNESS TO AFFIRM HIS CLAIM THAT HE WAS THE
LAST MESSENGER;
2]MOHAMMED LIED that Allah had given the Muslims the Covenant of
Abraham, but the Quran has not the Law of God;
3]MOHAMMED LIED THAT HE WAS AN ARAB and a HEBREW. How could Mohammed
have 2 biological FATHERS-1 Arab and 1 Hebrew?
4]MOHAMMED LIED THAT A DAY OF FAST IN RAMADAN IS ONLY 12 HOURS WHEN A
DAY IS 24 HOURS,and all ancient prophets fasted 24 hours a day WHILE
MOHAMMAD FASTED falsely 12 hours for daylight only;
5]MOHAMMED LIED THAT HE SPLIT THE MOON AND THE MOON IS STILL 1 NOT 2;
6]MOHAMMD LIED THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT[Sura 15:19 & 67:15], but we all
know the earth is round;
7]MOHAMMED LIED THAT ALLAH ALLOWS 4 WIVES BUT MOHAMMED HAD 30 WIVES;
8]MOHAMMED HAD MARRIED A BABY WIFE Aisha 6 who was young enough to be
his great, great, great grand-daughter when he -Mohammed-was 59;
9]MOHAMMED HAD MARRIED AN ELDERLY woman old enough to be his mother
named Khatijah 40 when he -Mohammed- was 25.
To verify THE LIES OF MOHAMMED, go to websites:
1] w w w apostatesofislam com
2] w w w faithfreedom org
3] w w w answering-islam org
AMEN IN CHRIST JESUS
sam...@hotmail.com
> On Sep 12, 12:36 am, sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Let us look at 'rasul paulus' whom christians
>
> Now let’s examine what a satanic cult is, the title you give to the
> thread. I don’t know how you arrive at such a title. Isn’t that
> reflecting the hurt you feel when I dismantle your great prophet
> cruelty and immorality of your prophet and the fact that you yourself
> could not exhibit any quality that he had?
Like I mentioned the hurt and dismay came from you.
400 plus combined posts and you have so far proved
nothing against Prophet Muhammad (saw). How in
your fantasy that you managed to dismantle the
prophet as you claimed? I am really perplexed by
your queer claim. In the 400 odd post , what we can
see from you are as follows :
- never attempted to answer any questions
- when refuted you ran away , came back , harp on the
same issues and pretended nothing happened
- lie in your claims
- make wild , spurious and speculative claims
- running around in circle chasing your backside
How can you honestly give yourself credit that you
do not even deserve? Anyway , christians are like
that - if you can't beat them , lie. I am still waiting for
your proof /evidence against Prophet Muhammad
(saw) and the test to your proof/evidence. Where
is it? So far you have nothing ....
> Talking about cult remind me of Jim Jones and his followers. The
> followers of Jim Jones worshiped that psychopath to the extent that
> when a few of them managed to escape his cult, others assassinated
> them. This is true in the case of all cults. Cultists love their
> leader to the point of worshiping him and are extremely offended if
> anyone criticizes their leader. Sound very familiar, isn’t it?
Sounds very familiar , most of christian cults are like
that. They would even commit suicide for their leader.
therefore christians are quite easily manipulated as
what 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty
hunter) managed to successfully do. That reminds
me of the fact that you christians await the second
coming in a hope that jesus will lead you guys thru
the 'rapture'.
ref : http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html
excerpt : '... One of the biggest scams going right now
in the Christian community is the Pre-trib
Rapture teaching. This teaching has set up
millions of Christians to be conned many
times....'
Do you see me being offended and displaying my
offense? Naah , its the opposite actually as I am
still waiting for decent argument from you against
Prophet Muhammad (saw). So far you have failed
and have continuously disappoint me with your lack
of honest and 'intellectually stimulating' argument.
> Jesus has been vilified on many occasions. When moslems mobs attack
> churches and killed innocent people residing in the church compound
> they attacked, they wrote in Bahasa: “Jesus taik.” Christians took
> part in some secular organization that urged the authority to take a
> legal measure, but we forgave the offenders, following Jesus’s
> saying : “forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing.”
> Muslims rioted and killed innocent people when a few cartoons of
> Muhammad were drawn. This alone is enough proof that Islam is a cult
> and not a religion. Who said beliefs should be respected? Only those
> who cannot defend their beliefrationally demand protection against
> criticism for their faith. Because their faithis disgusting they want
> to force others to respect their faith through legislation.
> If Muslims could answer the criticisms raised against Islam, they
> would not act so violently. They resort to censorship and violence
> because they have failed in the arena of reason. Why the followers of
> no other religion act in this way and why the followers of cults do?
> It is because this behavior is cultic behavior.
>
Oh I see , then you christians really excelled in this
arena. You kill about a million innocent iraqi muslims
just to steal their oil and justify it as it being god's will.
ref : http://news.yahoo.com/s//ap/20080903/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_iraq_war
excerpt : '.... ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Alaska Gov. Sarah
Palin told ministry students at her former
church that the United States sent troops to
fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from
God."....'
So who is the worse of the two? Muslims who just
demonstrate but do not kill against christians who murder
with the intention to steal the wealth of others and then
justify it as god's will.
Have the muslims in sci not answered your criticisms?
However when your criticism is compared to your christian
values , your so called criticism come back harder at you.
Then you run away. You cannot even face the truth , what
a hypocrite.....
> Now as to satanic, don’t you see that a cult that promote hatred
> toward others as satanic?
> Aren’t you familiar with the following passages?
> The unbelievers are the vilest of animals (8:55).
> Slay the unbelievers wherever they find them (2:191)
> Fight them and show them harshness (9:123)
> Do not take them as friends and helpers (3:28)
> And, Smite their necks (47:4)
Lets see the actual verses :
1) 8:55 - http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/8.htm
55. For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are
those who reject Him: They will not believe.
2) 2:190-192 - http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/2.htm
190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you,
but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth
not transgressors.
191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and
turn them out from where they have Turned you
out; for tumult and oppression are worse than
slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque,
unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight
you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who
suppress faith.
192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
3) 9:123 - http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/9.htm
123. O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird
you about, and let them find firmness in you: and
know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
4) 3:28 - http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/3.htm
28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers
Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that,
in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by
way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves
from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember)
Himself; for the final goal is to Allah
5) 47:4 - http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/47.htm
4. Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight),
smite at their necks; At length, when ye have
thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on
them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity
or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus
(are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah.s Will,
He could certainly have exacted retribution from them
(Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you,
some with others. But those who are slain in the Way
of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
When the actual verses are looked into , we see a different
story. Again I have caught you lying. This further strengthen
my argument that you christians cannot help but to lie in
everything. No doubt , this must be due to the teachings of
'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter). As
lying is a trait of satan , since paul met satan , therefore
from your lies as above , we can effectively conclude that
christianity is a satanic cult. Your lying helped strengthen
my argument.
Let us look at your bible :
1) exo32:27 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=220736
[27] And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God
of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and
go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp,
and slay every man his brother, and every man his
companion, and every man his neighbour.
2) lev23:30 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=407964
[30] And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in
that same day, the same soul will I destroy from
among his people.
3) num31:17-18 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=547346
[17] Now therefore kill every male among the little ones,
and kill every woman that hath known man by lying
with him.
[18] But all the women children, that have not known a
man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
4) deut6:15 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[15] (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you)
lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against
thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth
5) 1sam18:27 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=1134457
[27] Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men,
and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and
David brought their foreskins, and they gave them
in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son
in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.
6) josh6:24 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=902208
[24] And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was
therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels
of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the
house of the LORD.
7) john15:6 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4760421
[6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch,
and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them
into the fire, and they are burned.
8) luk19:27 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4722595
[27] But those mine enemies, which would not that I should
reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
9) rev19:11 - http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5379618
[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;
and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,
and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Well well , suddenly christianity does not look too loving.
Compare the biblical verses to that of the Quran , the
bible has a lot more violence and hatred than the Quran.
What now?
sam1528
sam1528
Kwee Tiauw™
Kwee Tiauw™
Kwee Tiauw™
donie
will kill Salaman Rusdhie, was a reaction of a cult.
Your reaction to murdering of Theo Van Cough, award for killing Oriana
Falachi, Hirsi Ali, Ali Sina, to mention a few, show that Islam is an
outgrown cult.
sam...@hotmail.com
Firstly it was semen stains. When refuted you change your
stance to water stains.
Inconsistency is a sign of a failed argument.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
Firstly it was semen stains. When refuted you
change your stance to water stain.
Inconsistency is a sign of a failed argument
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote innews:b83470aa-c964-4da0...@a2g2000prm.googlegroups.com
> > 55. For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are
> > those who reject Him: They will not believe.
> > 190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you,
> > but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth
> > not transgressors.
> > 191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and
> > turn them out from where they have Turned you
> > out; for tumult and oppression are worse than
> > slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque,
> > unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight
> > you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who
> > suppress faith.
> > 192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
> > 123. O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird
> > you about, and let them find firmness in you: and
> > know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
> > 28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers
> > Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that,
> > in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by
> > way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves
> > from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember)
> > Himself; for the final goal is to Allah
Firstly it was semen stains. When refuted you
change your stance to water stains.
Inconsistency is the sign of a failed argument
sam1528
donie
> On Sep 13, 4:01 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Here the “great prophet Paul, SAW/PBUH” (just following Sam’s way of
> > naming anybody the way he likes without giving benefit why he does so)
> > was preaching through letter to the Christians in Corinth, to be alert
> > of potential deceit of people who would quick to self proclaim being a
> > prophet. Yes, he reminded Christ followers that, that Satan can
> > disguise himself in many form, including transforming into an angel of
> > light. Some NT verses warn the advent of self proclaiming prophets who
> > outwardly appear angelic but inside was full of deceit.
>
> To be technically correct , you were the one who called
> him 'rasul paulus'. I suppose I do not have to cut and
But we never name him mighty prophet.
>
> > NT also facilitates the manner to test those who claim to have the
> > prophetic messages, “you can judge a tree by the fruit that it
> > bears.” This is in fact the theme of the manner I suggest when you
> > try to suggest and prove that your prophet Muhammat was being
> > prophesied in the Bible which I rephrase BEGIN WITH THE END IN MIND.
> > Unless you managed to submit alternative tests, this is the only
> > reasonable to evaluate and separate lunatics from pious and righteous
> > prophet
>
> Be more specific in your your definition. Judging a tree
> by its fruits is broad. You need to be specific. What is
> it about? Is it piety , morals, having a code of conduct ,
> etc.
For another, you're right Sam. You know what's written in PAUL epistle
to Christians in Galatia. Apostle Paul (no need PBUH, coz for sure
Christ have already atoned him) preach us to bear the following
fruits:
Galatia 5:22-23:
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.
Against such things there is no law.
Don't you see the changes happened to Apostle Paul once he saw and met
with Christ?
>In retrospect , I believe that you have missed the
> mark of your so called 'BEGIN WITH THE END IN
> MIND'. In the case of Prophet Muhammad (saw) being
> mentioned in your bible , the end in mind was to prove
> that he was actually being foretold in your bible. Isn't
> that the fulfillment of the phrase. I would say it has met
> your so called 'begin with the end in mind' criteria.
> However just look at your attempt to 'scrutinise' the
> prophet's character. Its all blotched up and very messy.
> Did you subscribe to your 'BEGIN WITH THE END IN
> MIND'. I do not think so. Where do you go from here?
>
No that's exactly for you to present the fruits of you Muhammat, a
cruel and immoral man, you have the audacity to call great prophet.
When I use the BEGIN EITH THE END IN MIND test, Muhammat fail
miserably. He looted, have whoever annoyed him murdered, schemed for
him to take to bed practically anybody he desired (see 33:51 that
explain 33:50's lawful further). I bet you don't have the capacity to
discuss just one of the fruits listed by Apostle Paul, attributable to
Muhammat based on the your scriptures and early islamic work, not on
unsigned essay, please. I challenge you.
donie
> On Sep 13, 4:02 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Now let’s examine what a satanic cult is, the title you give to the
> > thread. I don’t know how you arrive at such a title. Isn’t that
> > reflecting the hurt you feel when I dismantle your great prophet
> > cruelty and immorality of your prophet and the fact that you yourself
> > could not exhibit any quality that he had?
>
> Like I mentioned the hurt and dismay came from you.
Yes. Sorry Sam, I have to show you the atrocity and immorality
perpetrated and indulged by this man you respect blindly as great
prophet. You need the hurt and dismay as some sort of shock therapy.
It's unfortunate that it's me that sent you the hurt and dismay.
donie
> On Sep 12, 1:38 am, Nabie Mesum bin Sahwat <muham...@pedophil.net>
> Narrated 'Aisha:
> I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from
> the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for
> prayers while traces of water were still on it (water
> spots were still visible).
>
>
That's the problem in discussing with Sam, he totally forget the
substance of the discussion. Water stains or water spots were the
result of washing the clothes of Janaba (semen) stain. And as a result
of not paying attention to the issue he is quick to name his opponent
to lie.
Tan Sing Kong™
cheng-qoK™
Kwee Tiauw™
Tan Sing Kong™
d7c1b2...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com :
his quality is nothing better than his nabi's janaba
sam...@hotmail.com
How many have been killed? A miserable one person
by the name of Theo Van Gogh who drew Quran verses
on a naked lady in the name of art. He wrote polemics
about everyone including politicians and well connected
people. I am surprised he wasn't killed by others much
earlier.
Going by your argument , you christians murdered over
a million plus muslims in iraq just to steal their oil.
Doesn't it make you a cult of one million times worse
off? Oh wait , its just doing the 'lord's' task. That means
killing people to steal their wealth. Shallow isn't it?
Oriana Falachi , that dead woman was stumped when
she interviewed alyatollah kohmeini. Did you ever
read the transcript of her interview? Home work for you.
Ayan Hirsi Ali , is this lady your hero? She lied of her
'refugee' status from somalia whereas she was from
kenya. The netherlands wanted to deport her and she
ran off to the US to serve as a propoganda tool for the
bushkite administration. No one wanted to kill her ,
all muslims are having a good laugh at her.
ref : http://drmaxtor.blogspot.com/2006/05/surprise-ayaan-hirsi-ali-is-exposed-as.html
By the way her real name is ayan hirsi magan. Liars
like her and you always stay in a group.
Ali Sina , this guy or guys , they are losers hiding behind
the internet. This sina is like you , when refuted , he runs
away , come back . harp on the same issues and then
pretend nothing happened. He is even scared to go on
a live debate even on paltalk as he know his arguments
will be ripped apart.
Identical to you , all of your arguments have crumbled.
Until now you have side stepped all questions posted
to you. The only thing you have is a feeble conspiracy
theory based on the phrase 'thou beauty attract thee'.
When tested you have so far refused to even respond
to the questions. Oh wait , does this mean that you have
hurt and disappoint us muslims as you have managed
to dismantle Prophet Muhammad (saw). What a guy ...
Now you are even afraid to counter my argument to you
that 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter)
was an opportunist. Did you conveniently forgot about it
or afraid to provide anymore arguments. In addition I
am still waiting for you to refute me on the biblical
verses that support the fact that Prophet Muhammad
(saw) is foretold in your bible. Please , I implore you
to provide a strong argument. Is that too much to ask?
sam1528
Kwee Tiauw™
Hai Sammie boy, Pastikan Saroeng Anda Bebas Janaba Kutika BerTarawehh
please DO make sure beforehand that your sarong is free from your janaba
when you go to masjid for Tarawih during this ramadhan !!
unless your alloh swt enjoy the odor of all moslem's janaba inside his
"holy" masjid
mBawahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahaahaha....
what a religion :)))
sam...@hotmail.com
> donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1bc70942-38f5-4008-bd4a-
> d7c1b2500...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com :
No factual answers . out comes the one liners ...
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
At least we go and pray , unlike christians who does
it only once a week on sundays. By the way do you
wash semen stains from your clothes before attending
church?
How many percent decrement in attendance of your
church in this year compared to last year?
sam1528
ini si þíLL™
Hai Sammie boy, Pastikan Saroeng Anda Bebas Janaba Kutika BerTarawehh
please DO make sure beforehand that your sarong is free from your
janaba
when you go to masjid for Tarawih during this ramadhan !!
unless your alloh swt enjoy the odor of all moslem's janaba inside his
"holy" masjid
mBawahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahaahaha....
sam...@hotmail.com wrote in news:acfe9bb2-50a8-474a-955b-bfae5e471ce6
@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com :
ini si þíLL™
please DO make sure beforehand that your sarong is free from your
janaba
when you go to masjid for Tarawih during this ramadhan !!
unless your alloh swt enjoy the odor of all moslem's janaba inside his
"holy" masjid
mBawahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahaahaha....
sam...@hotmail.com wrote in news:0a4fd3c2-9a38-4e8c-ab1e-7f4e9468ccb6
@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com :
sam...@hotmail.com
> > him 'rasul paulus'. I suppose I do not have to cut and
>
> But we never name him mighty prophet.
>
From he was never called a prophet , now you are
changing your stance that he is now a prophet.
What is it now , a prophet or not? Isn't he a mighty
prophet as 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the
bounty hunter) taught the opposite to what jesus
preached and practiced. Christians believed more
in him than jesus.
>
--snip--
>
> > Be more specific in your your definition. Judging a tree
> > by its fruits is broad. You need to be specific. What is
> > it about? Is it piety , morals, having a code of conduct ,
> > etc.
>
> For another, you're right Sam. You know what's written in PAUL epistle
> to Christians in Galatia. Apostle Paul (no need PBUH, coz for sure
> Christ have already atoned him) preach us to bear the following
> fruits:
> Galatia 5:22-23:
> 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
> kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.
> Against such things there is no law.
> Don't you see the changes happened to Apostle Paul once he saw and met
> with Christ?
>
That is in every religious book. Nothing new , you pick
up the bagavadgita you will find identical concept.
I am asking about the the continuity in the concept
preached by all of the prophets of Allah , starting from
the 10 commandments. God is one not 3 in one. Do
not make graven images of god aka cross. Where is
your continuity? The OT preaches one god but one
way or another its now 3 in 1. The OT says do not make
graven image of god , now you have the cross. Why
are you contradicting your own bible as jesus has
said that he came to preserve the teachings of the
prophets of old and not to abolish the law.
You sure 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the
bounty hunter) met jesus? By his definition of 'the
light' , it was satan. Even his 3 testimonies in contradict
each other. In other words he is a liar as admitted
by him. I can see the changes in 'rasul paulus' aka
paul aka saul (the bounty hunter). He changed from
a bounty hunter to a religious opportunist as he was
in it for his personal gain. Even the apostles did not
acknowledged him. He then concocted that he met
jesus.
--snip--
>
> No that's exactly for you to present the fruits of you Muhammat, a
> cruel and immoral man, you have the audacity to call great prophet.
> When I use the BEGIN EITH THE END IN MIND test, Muhammat fail
> miserably. He looted, have whoever annoyed him murdered, schemed for
> him to take to bed practically anybody he desired (see 33:51 that
> explain 33:50's lawful further). I bet you don't have the capacity to
> discuss just one of the fruits listed by Apostle Paul, attributable to
> Muhammat based on the your scriptures and early islamic work, not on
> unsigned essay, please. I challenge you.
I have have done my part of presenting that Prophet
Muhammad (saw) is foretold in your bible which until
now you dare not refute. For my part 'begin with the
end in mind' has been done and completed.
You on the other hand is trying to counter that by
vilifying Prophet Muhammad (saw). It is your task
to do so. As far as the argument goes you have not
presented any proof or evidence of :
- the prophet looting
- the prophet murdering
- the prophet scheming to bed any women with your
favourite conspiracy theory based on 'thou beauty
attract thee'
Worst still , anything that got to the stage of testing the
proof or evidence , your so called poof or evidence
failed and you do what you do best - run away. What
are you challenging me on? You cannot even meet
your own challenge of trying to
- provide proof or evidence
- tests to the proof or evidence
of your claims against Prophet Muhammad (saw).
400 plus combined posts in thread 'proof?' and still
you have not managed to get anything across. Its
your task not mine. My task is just to refute you. So
can you now answer the questions posted?
If its unsigned essays , then you have already broke
down before you started as you subscribed to the
essays by gilchrist and arlandson for your argument.
Following your boundry conditions , you do not even
have a case. So what now , you have successfully
contradicted yourself ..... congratulations. Do you
have a case or not?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
Yeah sorry as you have so far been quite disappointing. So
far you have failed to provide any proof or evidence. Just
empty talk from you. When refuted , you run away. What do
you expect me to do. I cannot keep on chasing you as when
any questions posted , you will hightail off.
By the way you have not refuted me on my rebuttal to you
on 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter)
being an opportunistic prophet of satan. Waiting for that
one. You not going to run away again , are you?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
--snip--
>
> That's the problem in discussing with Sam, he totally forget the
> substance of the discussion. Water stains or water spots were the
> result of washing the clothes of Janaba (semen) stain. And as a result
> of not paying attention to the issue he is quick to name his opponent
> to lie.
However you christians firstly documented it as semen
stains. When refuted with the actual hadith , you now
change your stance and now its water stains. Are you
not lying? Caught you lying again. Isn't lying a trait of
satan. Are you following the teaching of 'rasul paulus'
aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter) who by his
definition met satan. Hence he was rightfully a prophet
of satan.
Anyways I have an item to ask you (following your
advice of asking jews and christians).
What is your practice and beliefs that your lord jesus
(for us muslims is Prophet Isa (as)) can identify you
as his follower or subject ,say in the day of judgement.
You do believe in the day of judgement yeah. Lets say
during that day you see jesus walk by and you jump
up and down waving and shouting ' Lord , we are
christians help us in any way you can...' How does
jesus identify you as christians which is supposedly
his followers or subjects?
For us muslims , Prophet Isa (as) can identify us by
our beliefs and practice which is similar to his or
following his teachings and sunnah.
1. He preached that Allah is one and is to be prayed
in a direct manner which has been a consistent
message preached by all prophets from Prophet
Abraham (as) as per mat4:10
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4380943
[10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence,
Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship
the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou
serve
mark12:29
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4520748
[29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the
commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord
our God is one Lord:
matt6:9
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4380943
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father
which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
2. Prophet Isa (as) is a prophet of Allah preaching Allah
commandment and monotheism
john8:28
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4760421
[28] Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted
up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am
he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my
Father hath taught me, I speak these things
john17:3
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4760421
[3] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou
hast sent
3. Prophet Isa (as) purified himself and prayed as how
we muslims do it. this is evident of him following
the laws of moses and prophets as per luke24:44
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4754087
[44] And he said unto them, These are the words which
I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all
things must be fulfilled, which were written in the
law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the
psalms, concerning me.
Thus we can clearly see that Prophet Isa (as) in
following the laws of Prophet Moses (as) purified
himself before prayer and prayed by prostrating
himself which is exactly as what we muslims do :
exo3:5
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=220736
[5] And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy
shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon
thou standest is holy ground.
exo40:31
[31] And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed
their hands and their feet thereat:
matt26:39
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4380943
[39] And he went a little further, and fell on his face,
and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible,
let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I
will, but as thou wilt.
4. Prophet Isa (as) says assalamalaikum (peace be on
to you) when he meets his disciples as what we
muslims say when we meet each other ,
luk24:36
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4754087
[36] And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in
the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace
be unto you.
5. Prophet Isa (as) was circumcised when he was 8
days old following the covenant between Allah ,
Prophet Abraham(as) and Prophet Ishmael (as).
All muslims are circumcised.
luk2:21
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4609530
[21] And when eight days were accomplished for the
circumcising of the child, his name was called
JESUS, which was so named of the angel before
he was conceived in the womb.
It is prudent that I also include the warning of Prophet
Isa (as) as follows :
matt7:22-23
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4380943
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have
cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful
works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
** Prophet Isa (as) will not acknowledge anybody that
does anything in his name.
Matt15:8-9
[8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth,
and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far
from me.
[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines
the commandments of men.
** Prophet Isa (as) had already prophesied that people
will worship him uselessly and will believe in doctrines
not made by God but by men
So donie , can you 'advice' of the above. Firstly you have
agreed in silence that Prophet Muhammad (saw) has
been foretold in your bible. Now it seems that the
teachings and sunnah of Prophet Isa (as) is similar to
or closer to the muslims than the christians. Also take
note of the warning of Prophet Isa (as) of people who
worship him are useless people.
Your bible stated that Prophet Muhammad (saw) has
been foretold in it and now you have lost Prophet Isa (as)
to the muslims as he was more of a muslim or he was
a muslim with his teachings and sunnah.
What is left for your christians? The only thing left for
you christians is the bullshit of 'rasul paulus' aka paul
aka saul (the bounty hunter) - a prophet of satan.
My question - how will 'lord' jesus identify you christians
as his followers or subjects in the day of judgement?
sam1528
soleram
news:2364d8bf-788f-45a7...@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com
:
Hai Sammie boy, Pastikan Saroeng Anda Bebas Janaba Kutika BerTarawehh
sam...@hotmail.com
> Hai Sammie boy, Pastikan Saroeng Anda Bebas Janaba Kutika BerTarawehh
>
> please DO make sure beforehand that your sarong is free from your
> janaba
> when you go to masjid for Tarawih during this ramadhan !!
>
> unless your alloh swt enjoy the odor of all moslem's janaba inside his
> "holy" masjid
>
> mBawahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahaahaha....
>
Look at you christians. Muslims are able to hit you
in your theology and there nothing that you can do
except to agree with us.
Firstly it was semen stains. When caught lying , you
changed it to water stains. Bad isn't it?
Cannot refute my post? No worries. I have told you
to leave christianity didn't I , its a cult preached by
that bullshitter 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the
bounty hunter). So when are you going to revert back
to islam? You were chanting hallelujah , which is
actually praising Allah.
You still have not answered my question. How many
percent decrement in the church attendees of your
church now as compared to last year?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1bc70942-38f5-4008-bd4a-
> d7c1b2500...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com :
>
>
>
>
>
> >> On Sep 12, 1:38 am, Nabie Mesum bin Sahwat <muham...@pedophil.net>
>
> >> The actual hadith is as follows :
> >> ref :http://www.truthnet.org/Islam/Hadith/Bukhari/4/
> >> Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
> >> Narrated 'Aisha:
> >> I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from
> >> the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for
> >> prayers while traces of water were still on it (water
> >> spots were still visible).
>
> >> ** note your lie - its water stains not semen stain .....
>
> > That's the problem in discussing with Sam, he totally forget the
> > substance of the discussion. Water stains or water spots were the
> > result of washing the clothes of Janaba (semen) stain. And as a
> result
> > of not paying attention to the issue he is quick to name his
> opponent
> > to lie.
>
> his quality is nothing better than his nabi's janaba
The good part is that you christians resort to lying.
What is it ..... semen stains?? When refuted you
change your stance. Poor isn't it.
The better part is that we can hit you christians in
your theology and there is nothing you can do
except to agree in silence. You guys do not even
dare to refute the biblical verses quoted.
The best part is that your christian defender , nick
'donie' had 400 combined posts to prove that the
Prophet Muhammad (saw) was not a prophet. So
far he has come up with nothing. When refuted
you guys do what you do best , run away , come
back , harp on the same issue and pretended that
nothing had happened.
sam1528
ini si þíLL™
hahaha eslam is nothing more than religion of mohammad's janaba
sam...@hotmail.com wrote in news:254ae1a9-9022-43ed-9906-
8eadef...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com :
ini si þíLL™
eslam = religion of mohamad's janaba traces
sam...@hotmail.com wrote in news:50d25f69-cde5-46e0-92a6-c4e4806511b1
@a8g2000prf.googlegroups.com :
donie
> By the way her real name is ayan hirsi magan. Liars
> like her and you always stay in a group.
>
> Ali Sina , this guy or guys , they are losers hiding behind
> the internet. This sina is like you , when refuted , he runs
> away , come back . harp on the same issues and then
> pretend nothing happened. He is even scared to go on
> a live debate even on paltalk as he know his arguments
> will be ripped apart.
>
> Identical to you , all of your arguments have crumbled.
> Until now you have side stepped all questions posted
> to you. The only thing you have is a feeble conspiracy
> theory based on the phrase 'thou beauty attract thee'.
> When tested you have so far refused to even respond
> to the questions. Oh wait , does this mean that you have
> hurt and disappoint us muslims as you have managed
> to dismantle Prophet Muhammad (saw). What a guy ...
>
religion prove that you are following a cult, a title you give this
thread. You too, when you begin to question why you glorify banu
Quraiza's mass murder committed by a great prophet you don't even know
why you confer the man such title, when you no longer classify
adopting children and treating them as your own as EVIL, just because
the Allah and Muhammat taught you so; when you begin questioning why
would many qoranic passages give benefit only the very one revealing
them, then you'll have to find sanctuary from this cult called
Islam.
donie
> On Sep 14, 8:42 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > No that's exactly for you to present the fruits of you Muhammat, a
> > cruel and immoral man, you have the audacity to call great prophet.
> > When I use the BEGIN EITH THE END IN MIND test, Muhammat fail
> > miserably. He looted, have whoever annoyed him murdered, schemed for
> > him to take to bed practically anybody he desired (see 33:51 that
> > explain 33:50's lawful further). I bet you don't have the capacity to
> > discuss just one of the fruits listed by Apostle Paul, attributable to
> > Muhammat based on the your scriptures and early islamic work, not on
> > unsigned essay, please. I challenge you.
>
> I have have done my part of presenting that Prophet
> Muhammad (saw) is foretold in your bible which until
> now you dare not refute. For my part 'begin with the
> end in mind' has been done and completed.
>
No you have not. You don't even dare to discuss someone you confer a
title GREAT PROPHET. If you have, you could have easily re-posted that
again. It's time for you to get out of the cult, Sam. You can begin by
trying whatever you can to gather from qoran, hadits and islamic
history, why Muhammat worth the GREAT PROPHET honor. If you can't, I
strongly suggest for you to spend alone yourself and meditate why you
fail to convince me to honor him?
sam...@hotmail.com
Can you pinpoint to me where in the Quran that advocates
death for apostates? Are you confused with christianity as
your bible advocates death for apostates. john15:6
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4839550
[6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch,
and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them
into the fire, and they are burned
Technically per your definition then christianity is a cult not
islam as your bible advocate death for apostates.
Again for bani quraiza :
- they broke the covenant and they should expect retribution
as per the dictated covenant
- the law applied was judeo christian law of deut20:16 of
slaughtering anything that breathes
- the judge was sa'd , a jew as prescribed by the covenant
- muslims practiced mercy of sparing the women and
children
If the law applied was harsh , its your judeo christian laws.
Blame your bible for it. The presided judge was sa'd a jew.
In the end it was muslims who showed mercy against the
harsh judeo christian law of deut20:16.
Again you have no case here once we delve into facts. Your
arguments seem to come from your fantasy. Wake up and
face reality.
Can you pinpoint which verse in the Quran that states of
adopting children and treating them as your own is EVIL?
This question has been asked for more than 6 times. You
have so far refused to answer in any occasion. Looks like
lying is a norm for you christians. I can understand as you
follow your 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty
hunter) who met satan and is a prophet for satan and have
admitted to be a liar. Lying is a trait of satan ..... what say
you? By the way , you are beginning to sound more and
more like nick 'mbill' as we go along. Rationale is starting
to leave you or what?
I requested for your 'advice' on how would your 'lord' jesus
identify you as his followers or subjects in the day of
judgement. Are you afraid to answer my question? This is
the problem with you , your big complain was that I do not
seek 'advice' from the christians in matters of this nature.
I have done so but you refused to provide me of your so
called 'advice'. So what now? I don't ask , you complain ,
I ask , you do not want to answer ..... What is exactly your
problem? Everything does not seem right with you ...
- Firstly, Prophet Muhammad (saw) has been conclusively
proven to have been fortold in your bible (and you have
until now failed to villify the prophet) - you agreed in
silence.
- Secondly, 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty
hunter) have been conclusively proven to be a prophet
for satan as 'he lied and lied' (borrowing explain_pls
favourite phrase). You agreed in silence
- Thirdly , it has been conclusively proven that your 'lord'
jesus was more of a muslim with his preaching of
tawhid , his prayers , him being a prophet , him following
the covenant of Prophet Abraham (as). You agreed in
silence.
What do you christians have now?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> > Muhammad (saw) is foretold in your bible which until
> > now you dare not refute. For my part 'begin with the
> > end in mind' has been done and completed.
>
> No you have not. You don't even dare to discuss someone you confer a
> title GREAT PROPHET. If you have, you could have easily re-posted that
> again. It's time for you to get out of the cult, Sam. You can begin by
> trying whatever you can to gather from qoran, hadits and islamic
> history, why Muhammat worth the GREAT PROPHET honor. If you can't, I
> strongly suggest for you to spend alone yourself and meditate why you
> fail to convince me to honor him?
I have done my part of presenting Prophet Muhammad
(saw) as being foretold in your bible quoting the verses
, interpretation in context and the tests to the proof or
evidence. You have not challenged the biblical verses
quoted. Therefore by all means you have agreed in
silence.
You took the alternative of trying to undermine the
character of the prophet. Its your call. My role is just to
refute you. So far it has been a stroll in the park for me.
I am still waiting for a strong challenge from you and
until now it has been disappointing.
I do not need to convince you anymore as you have
already agreed with your silence with regards to the
quoted biblical verses presented. Its the opposite
actually , you have failed to present anything that
points to the dubious character of the prophet.
Islam a satanic cult? You must be confused with
christianity.
- Who saw the light and by his definition is satan?
- Who provided contradictory testimonies of him
seeing 'god'?
- Who admittedly profess to the subscription of deceit?
Isn't it 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty
hunter)?
sam1528
donie
>
> Can you pinpoint which verse in the Quran that states of
> adopting children and treating them as your own is EVIL?
I don't remember if I suggest quran states OUTRIGHT that adopting
children and treating them as you own as EVIL But I remember you have
been admitting that yourself a few times:
======Sam's post=========
His marriage to zainab served to
solve 2 issues :
ref : http://www.rasoulallah.net/subject_en.asp?hit=1&parent_id=29&sub_id=6245
excerpt : 5. Status of a Divorced Woman:
Divorced women were looked upon as
inferior in status and were not allowed
to remarry in pre-Islamic era. By marrying
a divorced lady the Holy Prophet Muhammad
(saw) taught that such a marriage is not
only lawful but desirable to grant a divorced
woman an honourable status in the society.
6. Marriage with the Divorced Wife of an Adopted
Son:
Some of the Prophet's marriages were for
legislative reasons, in order to abolish
certain
prevailing evil customs and practices. Before
Islam an adopted son was considered as a
real son and was entitled to all rights and
privileges similar to a real son. Islam
abrogated
this practice. The Holy Prophet demonstrated
his disapproval by marrying Hazrat Zainab, who
was previously married to Hazrat Zaid, a freed
slave, and who was considered his adopted
son. Thus he established correct status of an
adopted child.
donie
===Sam's response ======
Ali Sina , this guy or guys , they are losers hiding behind
the internet. This sina is like you , when refuted , he runs
away , come back . harp on the same issues and then
pretend nothing happened. He is even scared to go on
a live debate even on paltalk as he know his arguments
will be ripped apart.
>
> Can you pinpoint to me where in the Quran that advocates
> death for apostates? Are you confused with christianity as
> your bible advocates death for apostates. john15:6
> ref :http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4839550
> [6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch,
> and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them
> into the fire, and they are burned
>
> Technically per your definition then christianity is a cult not
> islam as your bible advocate death for apostates.
No, Christians never interpret that verse "death for apostates."
That's a verse in a paragraph where Jesus teaches though parable. Him
being the vine tree and his followers as branches. In vineyard
branches that are not bearing fruits are pruned to allow more room for
those bearing fruits. Sam, you can easily distinguish fact against
fantasy by checking in real live whether Christians hunt to punish
apostates like you moslems do. I may yet to find specific quranic
passages, but the fact is you moslems hunt those and offered award for
killing those apostates and and those you consider vilifying your so
called great prophet.
Talking about Ali Sina being hiding behind internet, as you said,
proves further your cultist trait. You bunch will gladly murder
anybody that present naked FACTS about your religion and your leader.
Here is Ali Sina account on inferring that Islam is not a religion but
an outgrown cult. Happy reading don't get too emotional, refute
logically, not only statements, if can.
===Muhammad: A Cult Leader=====
From Understanding Muhammad: A Psychobiography of Allâh's Prophet
We are often taken aback by the level of fanaticism of Muslims.
Millions of them riot, burn churches, and kill completely innocent
people because a newspaper has published a few cartoons of Muhammad or
because the Pope has quoted a medieval emperor saying that violence is
not compatible with the nature of God.
People generally are biased towards a belief system that has this many
followers. They believe that the sheer size of Islam qualifies it as a
religion. But is Islam really a religion?
Some say all religions start as a cult until, with the passage of
time, they gradually gain acceptance and the status of religion.
However, there are certain characteristics that distinguish cults from
religions. Dr. Janja Lalich and Dr. Michael D. Langone have created a
list that describes cults fairly well.[1] The more a group or a
doctrine has these characteristics the more it follows that it should
be defined and labeled as a cult. The following is that list, which I
have compared Islam to point by point.
1. The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning
commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his
belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
Muslims are extremely zealous about their faith and have an
unquestioning commitment to their prophet, whose book, the Qur’an, for
them is Truth and Law.
2. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even
punished.
Muslims are forbidden to question and doubt the basic tenets of their
faith, and dissent is punishable by death.
3. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting,
speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work
routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the
group and its leader(s).
Five times during the day Muslims stop whatever they are doing and
stand for a repetitive and ritualistic prayer and chant the Qur’an. In
addition, for one whole month in the year they must fast and abstain
from drinking or eating, from dawn to dusk, a practice that can be
particularly taxing in summertime.
4. The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how
members should think, act, and feel, Ffor example, members must get
permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types
of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children,
how to discipline children, and so forth.
Every detail of the life of a Muslim is prescribed. He is told what is
forbidden (haram) and what is permitted (halal), what food to eat, how
to dress, and what rituals to follow in order to pray. A Muslim is not
allowed to date, and marriages are arranged. Corporal punishment,
including torture for disobedience to the authorities, is enjoined,
both for children and adults.
5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for
itself, its leader(s) and members. Ffor example, the leader is
considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or
the leader is on a special mission to save humanity.
Muslims claim special status for their prophet, while they vilify all
other religions. They can become extremely violent if their prophet
is slighted. They regard themselves as superior to all others, and
when in a non-Muslim country, they constantly lobby for concessions
and preferential treatments like the special privilege of having a
special room set aside in publicly funded schools so that Muslim
students can pray there. They are frequently granted exceptions
unavailable to members of other religions. Recently in Ontario ,
Canada , they tried to make Islamic law (Sharia) recognized and
binding, so they could bypass Canadian law. They were defeated,
thanks largely to the tireless opposition of ex-Muslims.
6. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which
may cause conflict with the wider society.
Muslims have a very strong us-versus-them mentality. They call all non-
Muslims, regardless of faith, kafir, an expressly derogatory term,
which means one who blasphemes God. For them, the world is forever
divided into Dar al Salam (House of Peace) and Dar al Harb (House of
War). The non-Muslim countries are the House of War. It is the duty of
every Muslim to wage jihad on the House of War, to fight, kill and
subdue non-Muslims and convert that land into the House of Peace.
Peace, according to Islam can only be attained by subduing non-Muslims
and making them subordinate to Islamic rule. The idea is not so much
to convert everyone to Islam, but to make Islam dominant. The non-
Muslims can continue practicing their religion, but only as dhimmis, a
term which means protected and is only applied to Christians and Jews.
The Christians and the Jews (the people of the Book) will be
protected, provided they pay the protection tax, known as the jizyah
and feel themselves humiliated and subdued, as stated in the Qur’an.
[2] If they fail to pay the jizyah, they can be exiled or put to
death. This is how the Mafia operates. If you own a business, you
could be harassed or even killed, unless you pay them a protection fee
to be left alone. As for those unbelievers who are not protected, i.e.
the pagans, the atheist, the animists, etc., they have either to
convert or be killed.
7. The leader is not accountable to any authorities.
For Muslims, all actions of Muhammad constitute law. He cannot be
held accountable for his actions. He was entitled to marry or have sex
out of marriage with as many women as he wished. He could raid
civilians, kill unarmed men, loot their properties and take their
women and children as slaves and even rape them. He could assassinate
his critics and torture them to make them reveal where they had hidden
their treasures. He could have sex with children. He could lie and
deceive his opponents. He could massacre his prisoners of war in cold-
blood. None of that bothers his followers. At first they deny all of
the above charges vehemently, accusing you of maligning their prophet,
but once the evidence is presented, they suddenly change tactic and
defend him, justifying his evil deeds, the very deeds they
outrageously denied. For Muslims, Muhammad’s actions are not measured
by what we humans know as right and wrong. Rather he is the standard,
the measure of right and wrong. As the result, if a crime was
committed by Muhammad, that crime becomes a holy deed and is emulated
by his followers unquestioningly. Muslims are capable of committing
the most atrocious acts of indecency and savagery with clear
conscience, because it is sunnah (performed by Muhammad).
8. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted
ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in
members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have
considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for
example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus
charities).
In Islam, the ends always justify the means. For example, killing is
bad, but if it is done to promote Islam, it is good. Suicide is
prohibited, but suicide bombing that will cause the death of non-
Muslims is a holy act. Stealing from fellow Muslims is prohibited and
the thief’s hand will be chopped, but looting non-believers was
practiced by Muhammad and so is considered acceptable by Muslims.
Sexual intercourse out of marriage is taboo, but rape of the women of
unbelievers is okay. The goal, which is the establishment of the
reign of Allâh on Earth, is regarded to be so lofty that everything
else becomes secondary. In the history of Islam, we read that people
murdered their own fathers or waged war against them. Such actions are
praised as the sign of faith and devotion of the believer. Lying in
Islam is prohibited, except when it is said to deceive the non-Muslims
and advance the interests of Islam.
9. The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in
order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through
peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
Muslims’ thoughts tend to be overridden with guilt. If a Muslim does
something contrary to what is permitted, other Muslims are required to
remind him or her of the Sharia law and demand compliance. In most
Islamic countries, particularly in Iran and Saudi Arabia , it is the
state that makes sure the individuals follow the religious law. In
March 2002 Saudi Arabia 's religious police stopped schoolgirls from
leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct
Islamic dress.[3] As a result fifteen girls were burned alive.
10. Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut
ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals
and activities they had before joining the group.
Muslim converts are encouraged to cut their ties with family and
friends if they are not Muslims. I have received countless heart-
rending stories from non-Muslim parents whose children converted to
Islam with whom they have lost touch completely. Occasionally, they
may receive a call or a cold visit, but the visit may be so
restricted, so bereft of any love from their children and their Muslim
spouses that the outcome further saddens the already heartbroken
parents. The purpose of these visits is usually to ask the parents to
convert to Islam. They leave, as soon resistance is encountered.
11. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
Muslims’ main goal is to promote Islam. This practice of promoting
Islam is called da’wa. It is the duty of every Muslim to bring new
converts, starting with their own family and friends. Expanding Islam
is the main obsession of every Muslim.
12. The group is preoccupied with making money.
Raising funds for jihad is one of the main objectives of all Muslims.
Today this is done through what are known as Islamic “charities.”
However, during the time of Muhammad, and throughout the course of
Islam, raising money for jihad was done principally by looting.
Islam’s main goal is to establish itself as the pre-eminent earthly
power.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to
the group and group-related activities.
Muslims’ main preoccupation is Islam. They are required to regularly
go to the mosque, attend obligatory prayers five times a day, listen
to the sermons, etc. So enwrapped do they become in their thinking
about how to perform their religious duties, what to wear, what to
eat, how to perform their prayers, etc. that they are left with very
little time for thinking of anything else. In fact, they are even told
what to think and what not to think.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize
only with other group members.
Muslims are taught to shun kafirs and are encouraged to socialize only
with fellow Muslims. The Qur’an prohibits taking friends from among
unbelievers (Q.3:28), calls them najis (filthy, impure) (Q.9:28), and
orders harshness towards them (Q.9:123). According to Muhammad, the
unbelievers are the vilest animals in the sight of God. (Q.8:55)
15. The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can
be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no
other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if
they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
The thought of leaving Islam is something so unbearable for true
Muslims they can’t even entertain it. Despite the fact that millions
of Muslims have left Islam in recent years, hardcore Muslims remain
adamant in believing nobody ever really leaves Islam, that such claims
are all fabrications and part of the conspiracy to shake the faith of
believers. Emails I have received from Muslims share one common
theme. They all warn me of hellfire in the afterlife. Between the
fear of hell and fear of reprisal, Muslims are trapped in a web of
terror of their own making.
Islam was not created to teach humans spirituality, nor make them
enlightened. The spiritual message in Islam is secondary or virtually
nonexistent. Piety in Islam means emulating Muhammad, a man who was
far from pious. Rituals like prayers and fasting are mere window
dressings to lure the foolhardy inside, to give Islam the appearance
of sacredness and spirituality.
This subject is explained in more detail in my book Understanding
Muhammad: A Psychobiography of Allâh's Prophet
________________________________________
[1] www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm
[2] Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who believe not in Allâh nor the Last
Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allâh and
His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they
are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing
submission, and feel themselves subdued.
[3] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm
donie
> ref :http://drmaxtor.blogspot.com/2006/05/surprise-ayaan-hirsi-ali-is-expo...
> By the way her real name is ayan hirsi magan. Liars
> like her and you always stay in a group.
>
Off course Hirsi stay in group; off course apostate like Ali Sina
hides behind interent coz there are moronic cultists out there who
will gladly murder to serve the honor of their leader, the GREAT
PROPHET. It's very unfortunate for the whole world that's the only
thing cultists comfortable to do, they can never advance reason to
honor the GREAT PROPHET?
donie
>
> read more »
You can learn more of Ali Sina and his group whom you cultists force
to hide behind internet, and reflect more that you are in deed
cultist, at this site
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge/cultist.htm
sam...@hotmail.com
> On Sep 15, 11:51 pm, sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > Can you pinpoint which verse in the Quran that states of
> > adopting children and treating them as your own is EVIL?
>
> I don't remember if I suggest quran states OUTRIGHT that adopting
> children and treating them as you own as EVIL But I remember you have
> been admitting that yourself a few times:
>
There you go , lying again. Looks like exposing you is
a fun pastime for me. You christians can lie and lie
and when exposed you do not have an ounce of
shame in you. This ties back to my claim that you are
the followers of 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the
bounty hunter) who readily admitted to being deceitful.
Following the teachings of your great prophet ...... you
guys also lie as it being something natural within you.
Do you know that lying is a trait of satan?
Your post of aug27 , 7.09pm :
' ....33: 4, 5 : Not allowed to adopt children (there goes
33:37 in vain) ...'
verse33:4-5
ref : http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/33.htm
4. Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his
(one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye
divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He made
your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your
(manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells
(you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way.
5. Call them by (the names of) their fathers: that is
juster in the sight of Allah. But if ye know not their
father's (names, call them) your Brothers in faith,
or your maulas. But there is no blame on you if
ye make a mistake therein: (what counts is) the
intention of your hearts: and Allah is Oft-Returning,
Most Merciful.
Can you now pinpoint where in verse33:4-5 that
prohibits adoption. I have made it simple for you as
verses33:4-5 is as above mentioned.
Are you going to side step the question and run away
again (and again and again)?
Do you notice of your selective memory retention? You
managed to dig up my posted link but 'forgot' about
the fact of your claim that verse33:4-5 prohibit adoption.
How do you feel that your lie has now been exposed?
Your post : '....treating them as you own as EVIL But I
remember you have been admitting that yourself a
few times: .....'
From the so called proof that you posted above , can
you pin point as to where it says that treating the
adopted son as your own is EVIL? The link (and I)
have stated that for the case of adopted son , it is EVIL
if the son is being regarded as the biological son
or the real son. Hmm , trying to twist facts (again)?
Are you not embarrassed by the fact that you have
been caught in numerous occassions of trying to
twist facts and truth. In other words - lying.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> On Sep 15, 11:51 pm, sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> No, Christians never interpret that verse "death for apostates."
> That's a verse in a paragraph where Jesus teaches though parable. Him
> being the vine tree and his followers as branches. In vineyard
> branches that are not bearing fruits are pruned to allow more room for
> those bearing fruits. Sam, you can easily distinguish fact against
> fantasy by checking in real live whether Christians hunt to punish
> apostates like you moslems do. I may yet to find specific quranic
> passages, but the fact is you moslems hunt those and offered award for
> killing those apostates and and those you consider vilifying your so
> called great prophet.
>
Ho ho , now its a parable huh. Why don't you look
at verses 5, 6 and 7 in context. The 'parable' is as
you described but again you twist the facts. If any
'branch' does not abide in the vine he is to be cast
aside and burnt. Therefore anyone not following
the teachings of jesus , he is to be cast aside and
burnt meaning killed. 'Pruning off the branches' in
your context is killing the 'undesirable' to save and
grow the 'desirables'.
Lets again look for consistency :
deut13:6-9
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[6] If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or
thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend,
which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly,
saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou
hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
[7] Namely, of the gods of the people which are round
about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from
the one end of the earth even unto the other end of
the earth;
[8] Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto
him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt
thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
[9] But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be
first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards
the hand of all the people.
deut17:3-5
[3] And hath gone and served other gods, and
worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any
of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
[4] And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and
inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the
thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in
Israel:
[5] Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman,
which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy
gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt
stone them with stones, till they die.
luk24:44
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4754087
[44] And he said unto them, These are the words which
I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all
things must be fulfilled, which were written in the
law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms,
concerning me.
If your 'lord' jesus confirmed as per luke 24:44 that he
came to fulfill the laws of moses and the prophets who
came before him , therefore for consistency the verse
of john15:6 in fulfilling and confirming to the laws of
moses etc means that in christianity apostates are to
be killed. My challenge to you - show me where in the
Quran that calls for the killing of apostates.
Lets look at the christian history :
From Malcolm Billings, The Crusades : Five Centuries
of Holy Wars, Sterling Publishing New York, 1996 -
*************************
In May 1096, a group of Crusaders en route to the Holy
Land to kill Muslims, stopped by a Rhineland town
called Worms between Mannnheim and Mainz, near
present day Germany to preach the message of God
to its population of Jews. The Crusaders urged them
to convert to Christianity, explaining that it is the only
path to salvation.
But when the town refused, the Crusaders under the
command of Count Emmich of Leiningen, dragged
them out of their homes and put up a massacre of
every one in the town. 800 people met a bloody death
at the edge of a sword for their refusal to convert.
Women and children were not spared and many were
decapitated as blood flowed through the streets of
the town. Some of them were even burnt alive as the
took refuge in the very same church that the Crusaders
have built and preached from.
Worms was definitely not the only town that was
plundered over the years. Christian preachers storming
their way from the West forced the religion upon the
locals through threat and terror. In the city of Mainz, 1000
Jews met the same morbid fate when they refused to
take up Christianity. Entire families were slaughtered
systematically.
The author of Gesta Francorum wrote to describe the
mayhem during the incident: “All the streets of the city
on every side were full of corpses, so that no one could
endure to be there because of the stench, nor could
anyone walk along the narrow paths of the city except
over the corpses of the dead’. Historians have referred
to this obscure incident as the “first holocaust”.
The people of other religion who refused to convert
into Christianity were not the only ones who were
feverishly persecuted. Christians who were known to
opt out of the religion or were seen as heretics, have
been mercilessly put to death too over the course of
history.
Somewhere around 1200, a new religion emerged
in Western France amongst the people of Languedoc
called Catharism and was gaining a steady stream
of converts from the Christian world. The Cathars, as
they are called, abjured marriage and the eating of
meat in an effort to obtain purity. The new religion
appealed to the Christians in a very refreshing way.
The spread of Catharism alarmed the Christians of
Europe greatly and the Church sent in preachers and
papals year after year to reverse the situation. In an
effort to delegitimise the movement further, Catharism
was declared as a heresy and a deviant branch of
Christianity. But the religion continued to flourish
and threatened to spread to an even greater part of
Europe.
The Christians could take it no more and in 1208, the
Pope decided to unleash a full-blown crusade against
the Cathars, known as the Albigensian Crusade.
Thousands of apostates were slaughtered in the
ensuing campaign, including 7000 residents of a town
called Beziers who were locked and burnt in a church.
A horrified onlooker rushed to the papal gates and
reminded the crusaders that the some Christians
were still trapped in the church together with the Cathars.
The officer overseeing the massacre then made a
remark that has resounded through the centuries:
“Kill them all. God will know his own”.
**********************
ref : http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/christians-killed-apostates-too/
What about the inquisition? When the catholic church
was in power , it committed all these atrocities under
the command of the pope. Eventually the catholic
church lost power with the emergence of the protestant
, anglicans etc. There was no way the catholic church
could have pursued the different denominations as
apostates and heretics without an internal christian
war. You can't beat then , join them.
This points out another problem. Do you (and the
other christians) regard the bible as the word of god?
If yes , why aren't you following the laws that your
god had ordained thru the bible? If no then is the
bible just a collection of stories for you? Which one
will it be?
> Talking about Ali Sina being hiding behind internet, as you said,
> proves further your cultist trait. You bunch will gladly murder
> anybody that present naked FACTS about your religion and your leader.
> Here is Ali Sina account on inferring that Islam is not a religion but
> an outgrown cult. Happy reading don't get too emotional, refute
> logically, not only statements, if can.
What facts has this ali sina presented? All of his
arguments have been refuted. The challenge for
him to debate was on paltalk with no physical
appearance needed. Even that he has been and
so far is afraid to take on the muslim debators.
He is just a coward and when confronted with
facts , he run away (just like you). For all you know
ali sina is just a pen name , could be a bunch of
guys writing all those stuff.
I will respond to the rest of your posted article in
the next post.
sam1528
donie
sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 16, 7:06�pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 15, 11:51�pm, sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
Sam asked:================
Can you pinpoint which verse in the Quran that states of
adopting children and treating them as your own is EVIL?
Donie replied: ===========
I don't remember if I suggest quran states OUTRIGHT that adopting
children and treating them as you own as EVIL But I remember you have
been admitting that yourself a few times:
> There you go , lying again. Looks like exposing you is
> a fun pastime for me. You christians can lie and lie
> Your post of aug27 , 7.09pm :
> ' ....33: 4, 5 : Not allowed to adopt children (there goes
> 33:37 in vain) ...'
> Can you now pinpoint where in verse33:4-5 that
> prohibits adoption. I have made it simple for you as
> verses33:4-5 is as above mentioned.
>
> Are you going to side step the question and run away
> again (and again and again)?
>
======Sam's post=========
His marriage to zainab served to
solve 2 issues :
ref :http://www.rasoulallah.net/subject_en.asp?
hit=1&parent_id=29&sub_id=6245
excerpt :
5. Status of a Divorced Woman:
Divorced women were looked upon as
inferior in status and were not allowed
to remarry in pre-Islamic era. By marrying
a divorced lady the Holy Prophet Muhammad
(saw) taught that such a marriage is not
only lawful but desirable to grant a divorced
woman an honourable status in the society.
6. Marriage with the Divorced Wife of an Adopted
Son:
Some of the Prophet's marriages were for
legislative reasons, in order to abolish
certain
prevailing EVIL customs and practices. Before
Islam an adopted son was considered as a
real son and was entitled to all rights and
privileges similar to a real son. Islam
abrogated
this practice. The Holy Prophet demonstrated
his disapproval by marrying Hazrat Zainab, who
was previously married to Hazrat Zaid, a freed
slave, and who was considered his adopted
son. Thus he established correct status of an
adopted child.
==============
> Do you notice of your selective memory retention? You
> managed to dig up my posted link but 'forgot' about
> the fact of your claim that verse33:4-5 prohibit adoption.
> How do you feel that your lie has now been exposed?
>
> Your post : '....treating them as you own as EVIL But I
> remember you have been admitting that yourself a
> few times: .....'
>
> From the so called proof that you posted above , can
> you pin point as to where it says that treating the
> adopted son as your own is EVIL? The link (and I)
Isn't that fairly logical to conclude when you yourself suggest "in
order to abolish
certain prevailing EVIL customs and practices" as one of the two
justifications you submitted for Muhammat to save Zainab for himself?
Off course I conclude it that way because your fellow muslim in this
SCI link that 33:4 & 5 also as justification for the marriage.
The real issue here just because Muhammat, your great prophet justify
his marriage Zainab, here you come with a declaration that adopting
son and treating him as your own, a GOLDEN RULE in any society save
cultists moslems like you as Evil. You cultists will do anything
even labeling a GOLDEN RULE as EVIL to support your leader, Muhammat
whom you have the audacity to name GREAT PROPHET, but fail to submitt
why you regard him so.
sam...@hotmail.com
--snip--
From the article it looks more like the description of
christianity in particular the catholic church. They are
about the only religion on the face of this planet that
have a leader (or 'father') subscribing to the dogma
of papal infallibility.
ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
excerpt : '....the opinion of the majority of Catholic
theologians that the canonizations of a
pope enter within the limits of infallible
teaching. Therefore, it is considered certain
by this majority of theologians, that such
persons canonized are definitely in heaven
with God.....'
Now the pope is with god issit? Is this pope a prophet
or what as he is considered infallible? Isn't this the
basic principle of which a cult is being defined. That
is blindly following the persona of an alive person who
claimed to be with god?
>
> ===Muhammad: A Cult Leader=====
>
> From Understanding Muhammad: A Psychobiography of Allâh's Prophet
> We are often taken aback by the level of fanaticism of Muslims.
> Millions of them riot, burn churches, and kill completely innocent
> people because a newspaper has published a few cartoons of Muhammad or
> because the Pope has quoted a medieval emperor saying that violence is
> not compatible with the nature of God.
> People generally are biased towards a belief system that has this many
> followers. They believe that the sheer size of Islam qualifies it as a
> religion. But is Islam really a religion?
> Some say all religions start as a cult until, with the passage of
> time, they gradually gain acceptance and the status of religion.
> However, there are certain characteristics that distinguish cults from
> religions. Dr. Janja Lalich and Dr. Michael D. Langone have created a
> list that describes cults fairly well.[1] The more a group or a
> doctrine has these characteristics the more it follows that it should
> be defined and labeled as a cult. The following is that list, which I
> have compared Islam to point by point.
> 1. The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning
> commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his
> belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
> Muslims are extremely zealous about their faith and have an
> unquestioning commitment to their prophet, whose book, the Qur’an, for
> them is Truth and Law.
The definition of a cult is formal religious veneration :
worship
ref : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult
This is similar to christians worshipping the human
being by the name of Prophet Isa (as). Muslims do
not worship Prophet Muhammad (saw).
Lets look at christianity and in particular the roman
catholic church :
The definition of worship -
ref : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship
2: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural
power ; also : an act of expressing such reverence
Muslims only pray to Allah. However in the case of
christianity you pray to the human called jesus. In the
case of catholicism you can see the following :
- http://www.remnantofgod.org/pix/pope-worship.jpg
Guess who is sitting on the altar?
- "God separates those whom the Roman Pontiff, who
exercises the functions, not of mere man, but of the
true God (...) dissolves, not by human but rather by
divine authority." -Decretals of Gregory IX», Book 1,
Chapter 7.3
- "The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus
Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the
veil of flesh." Catholic National July 1895.
My question to you , is your bible the word of god?
Is there god's laws in your bible?
> 2. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even
> punished.
> Muslims are forbidden to question and doubt the basic tenets of their
> faith, and dissent is punishable by death.
Again conjectures like christianity. Can you proof as
to where in the Quran that states death for apostates.
> 3. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting,
> speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work
> routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the
> group and its leader(s).
> Five times during the day Muslims stop whatever they are doing and
> stand for a repetitive and ritualistic prayer and chant the Qur’an. In
> addition, for one whole month in the year they must fast and abstain
> from drinking or eating, from dawn to dusk, a practice that can be
> particularly taxing in summertime.
ref : http://www.meditationpro.com/wiki.aspx/ChantingMeditation
excerpt : '.... Christianity
Friar Doug Main recommended using the mantra
/ phrase Maranatha, which is Aramaic for "Come,
Lord", as in I Corinthians 16:22 and Revelation
22:20. Pronunciation: mar'uh-NATH-uh
Did the link provided any mind altering practice in islam?
Answer is again no.
I thought your bible state that when you speak in different
tongues you are a believer as per mark16:17
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4520748
[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my
name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with
new tongues;
Isn't the rituals of abolution , prayer and fasting been
practiced by Prophet Abraham (as) and all the prophets
of Allah including Prophet Isa (as) and Prophet
Muhammad (saw).
Isn't jesus who you consider god practiced the rituals.
Why are you not following his practice via his example?
> 4. The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how
> members should think, act, and feel, Ffor example, members must get
> permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types
> of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children,
> how to discipline children, and so forth.
> Every detail of the life of a Muslim is prescribed. He is told what is
> forbidden (haram) and what is permitted (halal), what food to eat, how
> to dress, and what rituals to follow in order to pray. A Muslim is not
> allowed to date, and marriages are arranged. Corporal punishment,
> including torture for disobedience to the authorities, is enjoined,
> both for children and adults.
Can you show proof that in islam , the muslims need
to get permission as to what is to be worn , to date ,
change jobs and marry. Where did you get that notion
from? You are not lying again are you?
Similar to christianity , there is a prescription of what
is halal or haram. Consider :
lev11:7-8
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=407964
[7] And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be
clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is
unclean to you.
[8] Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase
shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
deut14:8
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530
[8] And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet
cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye
shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead
carcase.
mark5:17-18
ref : http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4380943
[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or
the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass,
one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the
law, till all be fulfilled.
Your 'lord' jesus in fulfilling the laws of moses and of
the prophets before him confirmed that there is halal
and haram in the dietary laws. Why are you not in line
with the command of your 'lord'. The answer is simple
, along comes 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the
bounty hunter) with full deceit , bullshitted you lot into
believing that swine is halal. That prophet of satan has
really got you guys in his pocket.
Where is the corporal punishment for muslims who
went against what to wear ,date etc. In your fantasy
I would think. Lets look at corporal punishment in
christianity :
- According to Wiehe, Protestant Fundamentalists
interpret certain passages of the Bible as literal
statements of support for corporal punishment and
believe that these statements are to be accepted
as instructions from God that must not be challenged.
** Wiehe, V.R., 1990. Religious influence on parental
attitudes toward the use of corporal punishment.
Journal of Family Violence, 5 (2), 173-186.
> 5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for
> itself, its leader(s) and members. Ffor example, the leader is
> considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or
> the leader is on a special mission to save humanity.
> Muslims claim special status for their prophet, while they vilify all
> other religions. They can become extremely violent if their prophet
> is slighted. They regard themselves as superior to all others, and
> when in a non-Muslim country, they constantly lobby for concessions
> and preferential treatments like the special privilege of having a
> special room set aside in publicly funded schools so that Muslim
> students can pray there. They are frequently granted exceptions
> unavailable to members of other religions. Recently in Ontario ,
> Canada , they tried to make Islamic law (Sharia) recognized and
> binding, so they could bypass Canadian law. They were defeated,
> thanks largely to the tireless opposition of ex-Muslims.
This is where double standards or no standards from
you christians. Talmud law is ok in north america
whereas shaira law is not ok. Clear cut practice of double
or no standard. Need I say more ....
ref : http://www.chabad.org/news/article_cdo/aid/623210/jewish/The-Talmuds-Take-on-Modern-Law.htm
> 6. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which
> may cause conflict with the wider society.
> Muslims have a very strong us-versus-them mentality. They call all non-
> Muslims, regardless of faith, kafir, an expressly derogatory term,
> which means one who blasphemes God. For them, the world is forever
> divided into Dar al Salam (House of Peace) and Dar al Harb (House of
> War). The non-Muslim countries are the House of War. It is the duty of
> every Muslim to wage jihad on the House of War, to fight, kill and
> subdue non-Muslims and convert that land into the House of Peace.
> Peace, according to Islam can only be attained by subduing non-Muslims
> and making them subordinate to Islamic rule. The idea is not so much
> to convert everyone to Islam, but to make Islam dominant. The non-
> Muslims can continue practicing their religion, but only as dhimmis, a
> term which means protected and is only applied to Christians and Jews.
> The Christians and the Jews (the people of the Book) will be
> protected, provided they pay the protection tax, known as the jizyah
> and feel themselves humiliated and subdued, as stated in the Qur’an.
> [2] If they fail to pay the jizyah, they can be exiled or put to
> death. This is how the Mafia operates. If you own a business, you
> could be harassed or even killed, unless you pay them a protection fee
> to be left alone. As for those unbelievers who are not protected, i.e.
> the pagans, the atheist, the animists, etc., they have either to
> convert or be killed.
The us versus them policy is actually a christian policy.
It was the christians who started the crusades not the
muslims.
The muslims invaded spain due to the invitation of the
subjects of the late King Witiza in 710, they appealed to
Musa for support against the usurper Roderick.
ref : http://original.britannica.com/eb/article-70371/Spain#587334.hook
While ruling spain , the muslims were established a
symbiosis with the jews benefiting both parties.
ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus
excerpt : '....María Rosa Menocal, a specialist in Iberian
literature, has argued that "tolerance was an
inherent aspect of Andalusian society". In her
view, the Jewish and Christian dhimmis living
under the Caliphate, while allowed fewer rights
than Muslims, were much better off than in
other parts of Christian Europe....'
'....Jews from other parts of Europe emigrated
to Al-Andalus, where they were treated with
dignity, as were Christians of sects regarded
as heretical by various European Christian states.
[citation needed] Al-Andalus was a key center
of Jewish life during the early Middle Ages,
producing important scholars and one of the
most stable and wealthy Jewish communities...'
Jizya is a protection tax on able bodied non muslim men
(women , children and old people are not included) such
that they get the protection of the muslim army. There is
no other tax imposed.
ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya
excerpt : '.... In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted
to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of
communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim
state's protection from outside aggression, to be
exempted from military service and taxes levied
upon Muslim citizens.....'
Along came ferdinand and isabella. After the reconquest
of spain , they did not establish taxes on the non christians
(ie. the muslims and jews). They simply slaughtered them.
The last four lines from you as above actually describes
the actions of the christians like ferdinand and isabella.
> 7. The leader is not accountable to any authorities.
> For Muslims, all actions of Muhammad constitute law. He cannot be
> held accountable for his actions. He was entitled to marry or have sex
> out of marriage with as many women as he wished. He could raid
> civilians, kill unarmed men, loot their properties and take their
> women and children as slaves and even rape them. He could assassinate
> his critics and torture them to make them reveal where they had hidden
> their treasures. He could have sex with children. He could lie and
> deceive his opponents. He could massacre his prisoners of war in cold-
> blood. None of that bothers his followers. At first they deny all of
> the above charges vehemently, accusing you of maligning their prophet,
> but once the evidence is presented, they suddenly change tactic and
> defend him, justifying his evil deeds, the very deeds they
> outrageously denied. For Muslims, Muhammad’s actions are not measured
> by what we humans know as right and wrong. Rather he is the standard,
> the measure of right and wrong. As the result, if a crime was
> committed by Muhammad, that crime becomes a holy deed and is emulated
> by his followers unquestioningly. Muslims are capable of committing
> the most atrocious acts of indecency and savagery with clear
> conscience, because it is sunnah (performed by Muhammad).
We have gone thru this in length. There was the revelation
of verse 33:52. Until now you cannot proof that the prophet
raped anybody. What happened to the jews , as a fact was
that they broke the covenant with the muslims. They were
subject to retribution as per the signed covenant. Judeo
christian laws were applied by their own people as per the
signed covenant. Actually it was the muslims who showed
mercy against the harsh judeo christian laws.
> 8. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted
> ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in
> members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have
> considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for
> example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus
> charities).
> In Islam, the ends always justify the means. For example, killing is
> bad, but if it is done to promote Islam, it is good. Suicide is
> prohibited, but suicide bombing that will cause the death of non-
> Muslims is a holy act. Stealing from fellow Muslims is prohibited and
> the thief’s hand will be chopped, but looting non-believers was
> practiced by Muhammad and so is considered acceptable by Muslims.
> Sexual intercourse out of marriage is taboo, but rape of the women of
> unbelievers is okay. The goal, which is the establishment of the
> reign of Allâh on Earth, is regarded to be so lofty that everything
> else becomes secondary. In the history of Islam, we read that people
> murdered their own fathers or waged war against them. Such actions are
> praised as the sign of faith and devotion of the believer. Lying in
> Islam is prohibited, except when it is said to deceive the non-Muslims
> and advance the interests of Islam.
Hmm , bogus charity. Does this not remind you of the TV
evangelism. They bullshit people for their money. All of the
ill gotten gains were stashed for themselves :
ref : http://www.scribd.com/doc/1249571/Christian-Tele-Evangelists-Under-Investigation-for-Fraud
Read and look at how you christian rev or pastor or whatever
were/ are conning the public of their money.
Can you show proof that the prophet looted the non
belivers. Again talking from your fantasy. I did
quote the biblical verses of deut13:6-9 and deut17:3
-5 of the killing of apostates in christianity.
Consider again that your 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka
saul (the bounty hunter) admitting to being deceitful
as per 2cor12:16.
> 9. The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in
> order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through
> peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
> Muslims’ thoughts tend to be overridden with guilt. If a Muslim does
> something contrary to what is permitted, other Muslims are required to
> remind him or her of the Sharia law and demand compliance. In most
> Islamic countries, particularly in Iran and Saudi Arabia , it is the
> state that makes sure the individuals follow the religious law. In
> March 2002 Saudi Arabia 's religious police stopped schoolgirls from
> leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct
> Islamic dress.[3] As a result fifteen girls were burned alive.
> 10. Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut
> ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals
> and activities they had before joining the group.
> Muslim converts are encouraged to cut their ties with family and
> friends if they are not Muslims. I have received countless heart-
> rending stories from non-Muslim parents whose children converted to
> Islam with whom they have lost touch completely. Occasionally, they
> may receive a call or a cold visit, but the visit may be so
> restricted, so bereft of any love from their children and their Muslim
> spouses that the outcome further saddens the already heartbroken
> parents. The purpose of these visits is usually to ask the parents to
> convert to Islam. They leave, as soon resistance is encountered.
Prevented from leaving a burning building because of not
being properly attired? Are you nuts? Can you provide the
link to such 'nutty' story.
Its the opposite actually , if you read the testimonies of
reverts , its their family that shunned them.
> 11. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
> Muslims’ main goal is to promote Islam. This practice of promoting
> Islam is called da’wa. It is the duty of every Muslim to bring new
> converts, starting with their own family and friends. Expanding Islam
> is the main obsession of every Muslim.
I do not think so. Its the christians who are over zealous
of trying to win converts. Just take the example of
the christians missionaries trying to kidnap the orphans
from the acheh tsunami. The missionaries wanted to
bring the orphans as christians and later send them
back as missionaries. To say the least , this is just
satanic following the teachings of the prophet for satan
'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter).
> 12. The group is preoccupied with making money.
> Raising funds for jihad is one of the main objectives of all Muslims.
> Today this is done through what are known as Islamic “charities.”
> However, during the time of Muhammad, and throughout the course of
> Islam, raising money for jihad was done principally by looting.
> Islam’s main goal is to establish itself as the pre-eminent earthly
> power.
Refer to response to point number 8. Looting? Again
can you furnish proof?
> 13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to
> the group and group-related activities.
> Muslims’ main preoccupation is Islam. They are required to regularly
> go to the mosque, attend obligatory prayers five times a day, listen
> to the sermons, etc. So enwrapped do they become in their thinking
> about how to perform their religious duties, what to wear, what to
> eat, how to perform their prayers, etc. that they are left with very
> little time for thinking of anything else. In fact, they are even told
> what to think and what not to think.
A rehash of point number 1. Refer to the response to
point number 1.
> 14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize
> only with other group members.
> Muslims are taught to shun kafirs and are encouraged to socialize only
> with fellow Muslims. The Qur’an prohibits taking friends from among
> unbelievers (Q.3:28), calls them najis (filthy, impure) (Q.9:28), and
> orders harshness towards them (Q.9:123). According to Muhammad, the
> unbelievers are the vilest animals in the sight of God. (Q.8:55)
Not true. We can socialise with the non muslims.
However when pointed out say for the christians
of their dogma of trinity etc. They get defensive.
However it seems ok for you christians to attack
islam. The problem is yours , not us muslims.
Quran verse 3:28 states of 'friends and protectors'
. Verse 9:28 , 9:123 and 8:55 is what Allah calls
you not muslims. Imagine the repulsive concept
of original sin , some one committed the sin ,
another pays for it with his life. Where is the
fairness?
> 15. The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can
> be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no
> other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if
> they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
> The thought of leaving Islam is something so unbearable for true
> Muslims they can’t even entertain it. Despite the fact that millions
> of Muslims have left Islam in recent years, hardcore Muslims remain
> adamant in believing nobody ever really leaves Islam, that such claims
> are all fabrications and part of the conspiracy to shake the faith of
> believers. Emails I have received from Muslims share one common
> theme. They all warn me of hellfire in the afterlife. Between the
> fear of hell and fear of reprisal, Muslims are trapped in a web of
> terror of their own making.
> Islam was not created to teach humans spirituality, nor make them
> enlightened. The spiritual message in Islam is secondary or virtually
> nonexistent. Piety in Islam means emulating Muhammad, a man who was
> far from pious. Rituals like prayers and fasting are mere window
> dressings to lure the foolhardy inside, to give Islam the appearance
> of sacredness and spirituality.
> This subject is explained in more detail in my book Understanding
> Muhammad: A Psychobiography of Allâh's Prophet
>
Inaccurate claims again. In truth this paragraph echos
the writer's fear of islam will be taking over christianity
as the dominant religion of this world. Are we taking
over by force? No , its more of islam being much more
appealing than christianity as it is a lot more logical in
its reasoning. Face it , christianity is in decline and its
a zero sum game in which islam is winning in the
expanse of christianity.
> ________________________________________
> [1]www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm
> [2] Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who believe not in Allâh nor the Last
> Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allâh and
> His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they
> are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing
> submission, and feel themselves subdued.
> [3]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm
The article looks like it describing christianity more than
islam. The arguments came back harder at you .... what
are you going to do ..... run away (again) , I guess
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
Ayan Hirsi Ali , everyone is just laughing at
her. No problems.
Ali Sina , he is even afraid to go onto paltalk
for a live debate (ie. no physical appearance).
Even that he is afraid as he knows his arguments
would be ripped apart.
Poor isn't it. So who is the cultist now? People
who worship Allah or people who worship a human
being by the name of jesus?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> to hide behind internet, and reflect more that you are in deed
> cultist, at this sitehttp://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge/cultist.htm
You can also look at the lies of ali sina and his
gang being exposed.
http://www.answering-faithfreedom.org/index.html
sam1528
donie
> On Sep 16, 8:00 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --snip--
>
> From the article it looks more like the description of
> christianity in particular the catholic church. They are
> about the only religion on the face of this planet that
> have a leader (or 'father') subscribing to the dogma
> of papal infallibility.
Nope. There is hell of a lot difference with what you cultist moslem
practiced. I am not a Catholic but I can say that the papality learns.
The learned regretfully late that the Crusade mandated by one Pope
Innocentius was not mandated by Jesus Christ our Lord. So was with the
inquisition in Spain. They learn that the protest for sin atonement by
a Papal decree was a papal corruption, and now no longer practiced and
Catholics have refurbish the spirit of OICUMENE (unity in Christ) with
the so called Prostestant who led the reformation. Those were the dark
age days we leave behind. Now even if some Catholics believe in the
papal infallibility, they never resort to violence if others question
the dogma.
But for you Muslim cultists, then , now and in the future you stick to
being satanic cultists. As you already have gladly justified Teo van
Gogh, Hirsi Ali, Oriana Fallachi, Salman Rusdhie, Ali Sina (I don't
even remember the latest Dutch politician), Danish cartoonist to
mention a few, all must hide from death threat, covered by a formal
Fatwa or not, by the satanic cult members whose leader they offend.
See how quick you justify the mass murder committed by your great
prophet on Banu Quraiza? See how quick you label the GOLDEN RULE of
adoption in pre Islamic Arab as EVIL, just to justify the marriage of
Muhammat to his adopted son' widow Zainab? This show how satanic
cultists you have become.
donie
> On Sep 16, 8:12 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
Off course Hirsi stay in group; off course apostate like Ali Sina
hides behind interent coz there are moronic cultists out there who
will gladly murder to serve the honor of their leader, the GREAT
PROPHET. It's very unfortunate for the whole world that's the only
thing cultists comfortable to do, they can never advance reason to
honor the GREAT PROPHET?
> Ayan Hirsi Ali , everyone is just laughing at
> her. No problems.
That's satanic cult trait you exhibit Sam. You are laughing at someone
who has to seek asylum from death threat note left at the murdered Van
Gogh's body: " Hirsi Ali, you are next"
> Ali Sina , he is even afraid to go onto paltalk
> for a live debate (ie. no physical appearance).
> Even that he is afraid as he knows his arguments
> would be ripped apart.
Poor cultist behavior. Arguments can be ripped apart by arguments.
Cultists will glad to rip Ali Sina's body apart given a chance to see
him.
sam...@hotmail.com
> sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Sep 16, 7:06 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 15, 11:51 pm, sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Sam asked:================
> Can you pinpoint which verse in the Quran that states of
> adopting children and treating them as your own is EVIL?
>
> Donie replied: ===========
> I don't remember if I suggest quran states OUTRIGHT that adopting
> children and treating them as you own as EVIL But I remember you have
> been admitting that yourself a few times:
>
> > There you go , lying again. Looks like exposing you is
> > a fun pastime for me. You christians can lie and lie
> > Your post of aug27 , 7.09pm :
> > ' ....33: 4, 5 : Not allowed to adopt children (there goes
> > 33:37 in vain) ...'
> > Can you now pinpoint where in verse33:4-5 that
> > prohibits adoption. I have made it simple for you as
> > verses33:4-5 is as above mentioned.
>
> > Are you going to side step the question and run away
> > again (and again and again)?
>
In my post of the above I requested you to pinpoint
where in surah33:4-5 that stated of not allowing the
adoption of children as claimed by you in your post
of aug27 , 7.09pm
As expected , you have again side stepped the question
and ran away. Typical of you. Why are you so afraid
to stand up to what you commented?
What is fairly logical here is that you did not
bother to read and understand what has been
posted. Do not tie other muslims into your blunder.
Actually it was not even a blunder but a calculated
lie. Your claim : ....treating them as your own as
EVIL But I remember you have been admitting
that yourself a few times: .....'
Whereas in reality was that the link (and I)have
stated that for the case of adopted son , it is EVIL
if the son is being regarded as the biological son
or the real son.
You have been caught twisting the facts (aka lying)
again. When will you ever stop lying? Are you
following the teachings of the satanic prophet
'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty
hunter)?
Can you for once be honest in your argument?
> The real issue here just because Muhammat, your great prophet justify
> his marriage Zainab, here you come with a declaration that adopting
> son and treating him as your own, a GOLDEN RULE in any society save
> cultists moslems like you as Evil. You cultists will do anything
> even labeling a GOLDEN RULE as EVIL to support your leader, Muhammat
> whom you have the audacity to name GREAT PROPHET, but fail to submitt
> why you regard him so.
The task to proof of such is on you as you are
the one who brought up the topic. You have so far
failed to establish your case. For us muslims ,
yes , Prophet Muhammad (saw) was the seal of the
prophets of Allah (note seal of prophets not a
great prophet).
Lets review your case as you stated of 2 phrases
to support your claim of conspiracy :
1.'THOU DIDST HIDE IN THY HEART THOUGH'
2.'THY BEAUTY ATTRACT THEE'
Your post of aug20 , 4.56pm in the thread 'proof'
'.... Allah and or Jibril was too quick to propose
Muhammat marriage to Zainab, while the divorce
was still IN PROCESS! .....'
Your post of sept16 , 6.20pm , in the thread
'proof?-2' bit part of the hadith (Sahih Muslim,
Book 008, Number 3330) you presented :
'... When the ‘Iddah of Zainab was over ...'
'... She said: I do not do anything until I
solicit the will of my Lord. So she stood at her
place of worship and the (verse of) the Qur’an
(pertaining to her marriage) was revealed ....'
You have just refuted and smoked yourself when you
used Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3330 for your
argument. Your claim was that Allah/Jibril was too
quick to propose the prophet marriage to zainab
while the divorce was in process. However the hadith
stated that the prophet approached zainab after her
iddah was over and the verse was only revealed after
her iddah and after zainab had prayed for guidance.
This chain of events really have made you look very
bad. I have been right all along that you made wild
, spurious and speculative claims in your argument.
With the above proof or evidence from the hadith
(which you presented - thank you) you have
effectively smoked your phrase 'THOU DIDST HIDE IN
THY HEART THOUGH'. This has been thoroughly refuted
by yourself - I am just extending my congratulations.
One phrase down , one phrase to go. I am still
waiting for more evidence that you can present to
support your conspiracy theory from the phrase 'THY
BEAUTY ATTRACT THEE'.
So if you bring up the phrase 'THOU DIDST HIDE IN
THY HEART THOUGH' in future , I will point to this
post in which you did a very good job in refuting
yourself. Once again - congratulations.
I told you that it has been a stroll in the park for
me to refute you. In fact I only facilitated you to
refute yourself.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> On Sep 17, 5:34 pm, sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Sep 16, 8:00 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > --snip--
>
> > From the article it looks more like the description of
> > christianity in particular the catholic church. They are
> > about the only religion on the face of this planet that
> > have a leader (or 'father') subscribing to the dogma
> > of papal infallibility.
>
> Nope. There is hell of a lot difference with what you cultist moslem
> practiced. I am not a Catholic but I can say that the papality learns.
> The learned regretfully late that the Crusade mandated by one Pope
> Innocentius was not mandated by Jesus Christ our Lord. So was with the
> inquisition in Spain. They learn that the protest for sin atonement by
> a Papal decree was a papal corruption, and now no longer practiced and
> Catholics have refurbish the spirit of OICUMENE (unity in Christ) with
> the so called Prostestant who led the reformation. Those were the dark
> age days we leave behind. Now even if some Catholics believe in the
> papal infallibility, they never resort to violence if others question
> the dogma.
>
What 'hell a lot of difference' was there? Refer
again :
- http://www.remnantofgod.org/pix/pope-worship.jpg
Guess who is sitting on the altar?
- "God separates those whom the Roman Pontiff, who
exercises the functions, not of mere man, but of the
true God (...) dissolves, not by human but rather by
divine authority." -Decretals of Gregory IX», Book 1,
Chapter 7.3
- "The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus
Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the
veil of flesh." Catholic National July 1895.
One main aspect of a cult is that the congregation
worship the persona of a person , in this case the
pope. You see muslims worship a human being? Are
you confused with christianity as you guys worship
the human going by the name of jesus.
If you say that you lot have left your so called
killings behind , you must have been sleeping.
What about the illegal invasion of iraq by the
bushkite administration after the president had
consulted his 'father in heaven' for such decision.
Not one or two have been murdered ,the murder goes
by the hundreds of thousands and have passed the
millionth mark of innocent iraqis. Is this not the
work of a murderous cult?
> But for you Muslim cultists, then , now and in the future you stick to
> being satanic cultists. As you already have gladly justified Teo van
> Gogh, Hirsi Ali, Oriana Fallachi, Salman Rusdhie, Ali Sina (I don't
> even remember the latest Dutch politician), Danish cartoonist to
> mention a few, all must hide from death threat, covered by a formal
> Fatwa or not, by the satanic cult members whose leader they offend.
> See how quick you justify the mass murder committed by your great
> prophet on Banu Quraiza? See how quick you label the GOLDEN RULE of
> adoption in pre Islamic Arab as EVIL, just to justify the marriage of
> Muhammat to his adopted son' widow Zainab? This show how satanic
> cultists you have become.
Where is the fatwa for their deaths apart from
rushdie? Even that the fatwa has been rescinded.
If its a cult then the so called leader needs
to issue the fatwa. Where is the fatwa?
Compare this with you christians ala the bushkite
administration. The cult leader bush consulted his
'father in heaven' to issue the fatwa to invade
iraq which had caused the murder of a million plus
innocent people. How do you justify this?
What is there on bani quraiza? They broke the signed
covenant. The laws applied was judeo christian law
of deut20:16. The judge was sa'd a jew. Muslims
showed mercy by letting go of the women and children
which was against the principle of deut20:16. If the
law is harsh , you christians should blame it on your
bible and your christian god.
For the case of zainab , refer to my previous post ,
you have smoked yourself. I will use this case
everytime you bring up your conspiracy theory
involving your 2 favourite phrases. I have got you
on this one. In fact you got yourself on this one.
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
> On Sep 17, 5:39 pm, sam1...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Sep 16, 8:12 pm, donie <donien...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Off course Hirsi stay in group; off course apostate like Ali Sina
> hides behind interent coz there are moronic cultists out there who
> will gladly murder to serve the honor of their leader, the GREAT
> PROPHET. It's very unfortunate for the whole world that's the only
> thing cultists comfortable to do, they can never advance reason to
> honor the GREAT PROPHET?
>
Hirsi ali (real name hirsi magan) was from kenya
not somalia. She wasn't even running from a forced
marriage as she was still married. She lied of her
refugee status to the dutch government. She ran
away to the US before the dutch government could
depot her. She is now a propaganda tool for the
bushkite admin. Look at her , her life is series
of one lie after another. This kind of people ,
what do you think of their morals? This is the
kind of people who are your hero ... funny guy
you are with a funny sense of morals.
Ali sina , you do not even know who is the guy.
He might or might not have been an muslim
apostate. For all you know the people behind
this pen name are of the same gang from answering
islam or the like. Can you tell me whether this
guy really exist? Again you need to use your logic
and wisdom. Exercise critical thinking.
> > Ayan Hirsi Ali , everyone is just laughing at
> > her. No problems.
>
> That's satanic cult trait you exhibit Sam. You are laughing at someone
> who has to seek asylum from death threat note left at the murdered Van
> Gogh's body: " Hirsi Ali, you are next"
>
Why should hirsi magan have any asylum status?
She was not from somalia but from kenya. She lied
of the being a refugee from somalia. Just because
she spoke up against islam (as she is now a tool
for the bushkite admin) , suddenly she becomes a
hero for you christians. She will be discarded
once the bushkite administration had enough of
her.
Any nut can give a letter saying that ' you are
next'. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to
figure that out. Who issued the fatwa and on what
authority, Did the fatwa came from al azhar?
> > Ali Sina , he is even afraid to go onto paltalk
> > for a live debate (ie. no physical appearance).
> > Even that he is afraid as he knows his arguments
> > would be ripped apart.
>
> Poor cultist behavior. Arguments can be ripped apart by arguments.
> Cultists will glad to rip Ali Sina's body apart given a chance to see
> him.
>
I stated of his arguments being ripped apart on
paltalk with no physical appearance. Why are you
adding your own commentry of ripping him apart
and trying to make it look like I said it. You
equivocate again. You never stop lying do you?
Well what to do , followers of the satanic prophet
'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty
hunter). Lying is a trait of satan , now are you
convinced that christianity is a satanic cult as
you guys can never stop lying.
sam1528
donie
If I don't bother to read and understand, how would I arrive at that?
May be it's time for you to understand what you post yourself. In
particular, I let you re-read say that 2nd justification you forwarded
of the scandalous marriage. How would one to understand different than
"that customs and practices adopted by jahiliah Arab in adopting son
and treating him like his own as EVIL?"
> Whereas in reality was that the link (and I)have
> stated that for the case of adopted son , it is EVIL
> if the son is being regarded as the biological son
> or the real son.
Sam, in the universal GOLDEN RULE adopting children is noble and even
MORE NOBLE if you manage to treat them as your own. In a non-satanic
cultist environment, one important criterion to adopt is the
likelihood that the adopting parent(s) will manage to treat the child
as their own. Your continuing labeling me to lie prove more your
cultist tendency. You find any means at any expense to defend Muhammat
scandalous marriage to Zainab on the account of EVILNESS of jahiliah
culture on adopting son and treating them like your own.
donie
I feel a bit sorry for you Sam. I thought you would live to the name
given by your fellow moslem NGer 'berayun': SAM SUPER ARGUE..
apparently I have to expand a bit of teaching exercise in the matter
of inference, how to withdraw common sense from a statement.
Sam says: "Adopting son and treating him as a their own is jahiliahly
EVIL"
Based on that "donie has been caught twisting the facts (aka lying)"
coz he rephrase that a few times as: "ADOPTING SON IS EVIL."
Now as in the case of Zaiyd, what would be the purpose of Muhammat in
the adoption other than to regard him as his own? Running errands?
Taking duty as a guard? Assisting in the household cores? Shouldn't
those be served better if Zaiyd stayed slave? You may say that's for
you to find out and to prove. But again IF ADOPTING SON AND TREATING
HIM AS THEIR OWN AS EVIL, ADOPTING SON WITHOUT THE INTENTION OF
TREATING HIM AS THEIR OWN IS EVEN MORE EVIL Treating adopted children
as maids or as slaves, or as future sex object or any other you can
think of other than treating like your own, would not be allowed in
any CIVIL SOCIETY.
You ask: Can you for once be honest in your argument? That's as honest
as I can be. I notice that you post more questions on the cult issue,
but in order for you not to see me keep side-stepping, let's conclude
first on the SUBSTANCE of the above Islamic teaching on the adoption
above.
sam...@hotmail.com
Then reread again and again of the information posted.
The information in the link states of '....adopted son was
considered as a real son...'. Real son means biological
son. Your post state of '...adopting son and treating him
like his own as EVIL..'
Of course you got to treat the adopted son as if they are
your own son but they are not your biological son or real
son. There is a big distinction. When you make the
adopted as your biological son by changing his name ,
- let say he has a sister and being adopted by another
and her name changed and identity concealed , if they
meet and marry , isn't that incest. I have already posted
a link to this happening.
- the pagan quraish had this caveat that when adopted
sons status are changed to biological sons whatever
wealth left for them comes to the family and usurped.
The Quran has prohibited this practice as the adopted
parents need to keep the wealth of the adopted kids
separate , in trust and to be returned upon their maturity.
However the Quran has never state that the adopted
parents cannot pass part of their inheritance to the
adopted kids. This information has also been posted.
A simple question to you. Is an adopted son your real or
biological son? Yes or no?
> > Whereas in reality was that the link (and I)have
> > stated that for the case of adopted son , it is EVIL
> > if the son is being regarded as the biological son
> > or the real son.
>
> Sam, in the universal GOLDEN RULE adopting children is noble and even
> MORE NOBLE if you manage to treat them as your own. In a non-satanic
> cultist environment, one important criterion to adopt is the
> likelihood that the adopting parent(s) will manage to treat the child
> as their own. Your continuing labeling me to lie prove more your
> cultist tendency. You find any means at any expense to defend Muhammat
> scandalous marriage to Zainab on the account of EVILNESS of jahiliah
> culture on adopting son and treating them like your own.
That is where you have been equivocating. You did post
the merits of adoption based on 'wisdom' by changing the
name of the kids and concealing their identity to be like
your own biological sons. In response I posted a link of
the happening of incest due to your so called 'wisdom built
system'. After that you ran away and refused to comment.
Your aim is still to proof of your conspiracy theory using
your 2 favourite phrase. Too bad , you had refuted yourself
in that one. You have never been interested in the problems
of when you make believe that the adopted kids are your
biological kids. Your interest is still your conspiracy theory.
Too bad for you ...... you should not have refuted yourself.
Why are you talking about your so called 'golden rule'. You
are not interested in it , you are still pining on how to
prove your conspiracy theory based on your 2 favourite
verses that you yourself refuted. Be honest about your
intention.
So you still have not challenged me on the biblical verses
defining 'rasul paulus' aka paul aka saul (the bounty hunter)
confirming that he met satan and he had admitted to be a
liar which is the trait of satan.
You still have not challenged me as I asked for your 'advice;
on how would your 'lord' jesus recognise you christians as
his followers or subjects in the day of judgement.
Getting cold feet huh?
sam1528
sam...@hotmail.com
If you have been hit left and right , its your problem not
mine. You should have been honest and ascribe to logic
and wisdom. Conspiracy theory based on phrases is
not a good avenue to argue. In the end you refuted your
own self. Too bad .....
Super argue or not .... its your problem not mine.
> Sam says: "Adopting son and treating him as a their own is jahiliahly
> EVIL"
> Based on that "donie has been caught twisting the facts (aka lying)"
> coz he rephrase that a few times as: "ADOPTING SON IS EVIL."
>
I told you that you are the follower of 'rasul paulus' aka paul
aka saul (the bounty hunter) who is the prophet of satan.
You just cannot stop lying. You are even afraid to provide
the date and time stamp of the posts. Shows that you have
something to hide. Lying is a trait of satan.
Nice try ..... very sneaky ..... but nice try.
> Now as in the case of Zaiyd, what would be the purpose of Muhammat in
> the adoption other than to regard him as his own? Running errands?
> Taking duty as a guard? Assisting in the household cores? Shouldn't
> those be served better if Zaiyd stayed slave? You may say that's for
> you to find out and to prove. But again IF ADOPTING SON AND TREATING
> HIM AS THEIR OWN AS EVIL, ADOPTING SON WITHOUT THE INTENTION OF
> TREATING HIM AS THEIR OWN IS EVEN MORE EVIL Treating adopted children
> as maids or as slaves, or as future sex object or any other you can
> think of other than treating like your own, would not be allowed in
> any CIVIL SOCIETY.
>
From which part of your fantasy that you imagined zayd to
be running errands , guard duty and assisting in household
chores? Isn't this a clear example of you not able to separate
facts from fantasy. I can understand that christianity is a
religion based on conjectures , however when we discuss
islam , its always based on facts , logic and wisdom. Do not
be confused or pretend to be confused.
Can you show me proof that adopting children and treating
them as your own (not making them as as your biological or
real children by changing their names and concealing their
identity) is EVIL? You will be hard pressed. You are not in
desperate mode are you?
> You ask: Can you for once be honest in your argument? That's as honest
> as I can be. I notice that you post more questions on the cult issue,
> but in order for you not to see me keep side-stepping, let's conclude
> first on the SUBSTANCE of the above Islamic teaching on the adoption
> above.
He he he , as honest as you can be? You are even trying to
twist the phrase of ' real or biological' son against 'treating
the son as your own is EVIL'. I do not think you can ever be
honest. Everything about the adopted issues have been
posted. You ask the same questions you will get the same
answers. Your intention is still trying to hang on to your
conspiracy theory based on your 2 favourite phrases. Too
bad you refuted yourself in that one. Told you , the job of
refuting you is like a stroll in the park. All that is needed was
to facilitate you in refuting , smoking and kapowing your own
self. I am gonna have a good laugh at this one. This is the
first time a person refuted , smoked and kapowed his own
argument.
How come you never provide me with 'advice' to my query of
the issue that if you christians meet your 'lord' jesus in the
day of judgement , on what criteria would he recognise you
christians as his followers or subjects. I have shown that he
will recognise muslims thru our belief in him and his sunnah.
I am still waiting for your 'advice'. You complain when I did
not ask you but now when I solicit for your 'advice' , you
refused to answer. What is this? I am asking you for your
'advice' now. Not getting cold feet are you?
sam1528
donie
Sam states: "Data talks, bullshit walks"
== here is Sam's latest respons===
Then reread again and again of the information posted.
The information in the link states of '....adopted son was
considered as a real son...'. Real son means biological
son. Your post state of '...adopting son and treating him
like his own as EVIL..'
Of course you got to treat the adopted son as if they are
your own son but they are not your biological son or real
son. There is a big distinction. When you make the
adopted as your biological son by changing his name ,
====end of quote====
Look at how growing cultist you have become Sam. Just because the link
was justifications for Muhammat, your Great Prophet to marry his
adopted son's freshly divorcee Zainab, you defend it at any costs even
up to throwing away your simple and very rudimentary common sense. You
will soon graduate into zombie, you can be rest assured of that, if
you keep following someone you can not even question like Muhammat
(read QS 5:101).
Where in the world can your adopted son becomes biological son? When
you talk about adoption, it is only zombie that will connect treating
adopted son as real son as magically turning him into your biological
son. Coz biological son can only be born out of your wife's womb. It
is only zombie that considers adopting Zaiyd, naming him Zaiyd b.
Muhammat was equivalent to reprocessing him to become a biological
son. Your cult through "to-Muhhamat-while-in-trance-only revealed" QS
33: 4 & 5 had to re-named him to his biological name, Zaiyd b Harith
riding, in the process, on labeling innocent and noble Quraish
practice of adoption as EVIL.
I know you've continuously been reducing the quality of your posts to
wording issue as above and derogatory remarks, but on the other side
you give me an opportunity to further exercise my patience, a Holy
Spirit induced fruit as stated by Rasul Paulus, aka Saul of Tarsus who
didn't need SAW or PBUH at all as he got his atonement when he 'met
and accept' his Lord, Jesus Christ.
donie
> 'advice' now. Not getting cold feet are you?
>
> sam1528
Cold feet? Nope. I don't even need to return this particular question
to you youself. I have been taught to always judge a tree by the
fruits that it bears. When I want to see whether you have cold feet or
not, I just go through your 'fruits' in our verbal exchanges. It
should be clearer to draw it from there. As shown in this thread,
while responding to the different verses on "Rosul seeing light" to
their context, I have even managed to withdraw your attention to
evidences that show how satanic cultist fanatical moslems and you have
grown into by quickly roaring and gloryfying death threat to anybody
questioning and or vilifying your leader, Muhammat. Someone you you
have the audacity to confer the title GREAT PROPHET without bothering
to discuss why would you regard him a prophet, let alone great
prophet, an exemplary for mankind.
I totally buy your: "Data talk, bullshit walks" idiom. So I have
always tried to base my conclusion on either data from early Islamic
references and those you or other muslim posters introduce in the
discussion. I slip very now and then just like writing step son while
I really mean adopted son (which remind me of a 'side stepped' issue,
later). So what? Especially I am willing to admit it if you make an
issue out of that. Now on my (probably) early comment on concluding
your glorious QS 33: 4&5 to include banning you to adopt children.
That I derived from one of the moslem guy who confer you and the same
time title the thread SAM SUPER ARGUE... plus your own justification
of the scandalous marriage of Muhammat and Zainab which rides on
labeling pre islamic practices of adopting children and treating them
as real children as EVIL. If you insist on making that as blockage
issue, I refute by requesting you mozlems to clarify this garbles of
justifications which further qualify the marriage as scandal.
Sam states: "Data talks, bullshit talks"