Germany proves it's Zensurship in child naming
The Spark Miller
DUESSELDORF, Germany — An attempt by a German mother to give her
10-month-old baby son 12 forenames was blocked Monday by a court which
ruled that a child could only have a maximum of five names.
The 27-year-old housewife wanted to name the boy Chenekwahow Migiskau
Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo Alessandro Majim Chayara Inti Ernesto Prithibi Kioma
Pathar Henrike so that he would grow up "in the cultural spirit of the times.''
But the Duesseldorf court said that in choosing the names the mother, whom it did
not name, had not fulfilled her "Vornamenbestimmungspflicht'' — an obligation to
make clear what people should call her child.
The decision by the higher state court confirmed earlier rulings, but diverged on
one point in accepting Kioma as a valid name. Two other courts had decided that
the name, which the mother had invented, was illegal.
--
TJ Miller jr | http://www.spark.org
"A liberal is a person whose interests aren't at stake
at the moment"
-Willis Player
Andreas Richard Praefcke
The Spark Miller (her...@spark.org) wrote:
: DUESSELDORF, Germany — An attempt by a German mother to give her
: 10-month-old baby son 12 forenames was blocked Monday by a court which
: ruled that a child could only have a maximum of five names.
This seems strange to me, as my grandfather (German, born in 1900) had six
christian names. Nobody seemed to bother about the fact then.
Of course, the names were much more comprehensible for German ears than
the one mentioned in the original posting...
- Andreas Praefcke
Mannheim, Germany
Achim Scheve
her...@spark.org schrieb am 04.05.98 in der UseNetMessage
3D6183D4F19BFC0D.DCCAD4F591AC2631.1A0DF6B28124CFBC@library-
proxy.airnews.net (Gruppe soc.culture.german):
TSM>DUESSELDORF, Germany — An attempt by a German mother to give her 10-
TSM>month-old baby son 12 forenames was blocked Monday by a court which
TSM>ruled that a child could only have a maximum of five names.
That is not a fixed rule, a popular number of forenames
are one, two or three. It depends on the german region.
TSM> The 27-year-old housewife wanted to name the boy Chenekwahow
TSM>Migiskau Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo Alessandro Majim Chayara Inti Ernesto
TSM>Prithibi Kioma Pathar Henrike so that he would grow up "in the
TSM>cultural spirit of the times.''
The german names here are:
- Alessandro
- Ernesto
- Henrike
These names would prevent the child from beeing bullied.
MfG
Achim
Achim Scheve
prae...@rummelplatz.uni-mannheim.de schrieb am 05.05.98
in der UseNetMessage 6imio9$qqs$2...@trumpet.uni-
mannheim.de (Gruppe soc.culture.german):
ARP>This seems strange to me, as my grandfather (German, born in 1900)
ARP>had six christian names. Nobody seemed to bother about the fact then.
In 1900 there were no computers in Germany.
Today it would be impossible to have all these names
in a computer.
Achim
Juergen von Hagen
Achim Scheve wrote:
> ARP>This seems strange to me, as my grandfather (German, born in 1900)
> ARP>had six christian names. Nobody seemed to bother about the fact then.
> In 1900 there were no computers in Germany.
> Today it would be impossible to have all these names
> in a computer.
well this really pisses me off. You can't have it in the computer
because the programmer was too dumb to think about it!
this reminds me the times when "a's and "u's and such got transformed
into aes and ues just because nobody bothered to think about
8bit encoding. "because the computer can't do it" is NO excuse ever.
They can do it. The programmer couldn't do it!
cheers
juergen (ecce about the ue, just because this ____ windows can't tell me
how to enter 8bit characters - now it's the question who's the
programmer? They because they did Windows or me because I'm typing
my mails in it?)
GodSmurf
The Spark Miller wrote in message
> The 27-year-old housewife wanted to name the boy Chenekwahow Migiskau
> Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo Alessandro Majim Chayara Inti Ernesto Prithibi Kioma
> Pathar Henrike so that he would grow up "in the cultural spirit of the
times.''
> But the Duesseldorf court said that in choosing the names the mother, whom
it did
> not name, had not fulfilled her "Vornamenbestimmungspflicht'' — an
obligation to
> make clear what people should call her child.
>TJ Miller jr | http://www.spark.org
Think of it this way Spark: if only yankHell were a cool country like
Deutschland instead of a retarded 3rd world police state, your mother too
would have been forced to give you a decent name and you wouldn't have to hide
it behind a lame replacement like "TJ".
Just imagine the joy, Tear Jerker.
The Spark Miller
The Serf Smurfed:
>
> The Spark Miller wrote in message
> > But the Duesseldorf court said that in choosing the names the mother, whom it did
> > not name, had not fulfilled her "Vornamenbestimmungspflicht'' — an obligation to
> > make clear what people should call her child.
> Think of it this way Spark: if only yankHell were a cool country like
> Deutschland
...where mothers have to get their childrens' names approved by the
Polizei first? I think not...
> instead of a retarded 3rd world police state, your mother too
> would have been forced to give you a decent name and you wouldn't have to hide
> it behind a lame replacement like "TJ".
>
> Just imagine the joy, Tear Jerker.
Arctually, TJ is merely an acronym...you get to guess what they stand
for.
--
TJ Miller jr | http://www.spark.org
Goetz Kluge
>In 1900 there were no computers in Germany.
>Today it would be impossible to have all these names
>in a computer.
I would like to see the passport of the kid with 12 names.
Travelling surely would be very challenging for her.
Some countries have rules on naming, some also have traditions,
which again could put the kid into trouble later. In China
kids sometimes get very terrible names in order to scare
the ghosts away from them. As for very impatient ghost,
a set of 12 names for a single kid perhaps also will do
the job.
--
Goetz Kluge, Munich, Germany
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/SMIPP/frmentro.htm
Christian Krause
The Spark Miller schrieb in Nachricht <3550D0...@spark.org>...
>> Think of it this way Spark: if only yankHell were a cool country like
>> Deutschland
>
>...where mothers have to get their childrens' names approved by the
>Polizei first? I think not...
which manages births, deaths and marriages).
The reason for these rules is to protect the child against weird parental
ideas.
Calling this "Zensurship" is a poor attempt to provoke.
Gruß, Christian
Michael Huebner
>TSM> The 27-year-old housewife wanted to name the boy Chenekwahow
>TSM>Migiskau Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo Alessandro Majim Chayara Inti Ernesto
>TSM>Prithibi Kioma Pathar Henrike so that he would grow up "in the
>TSM>cultural spirit of the times.''
>The german names here are:
>- Alessandro
>- Ernesto
>- Henrike
LOL None of those names is German. Alessandro is Italian, Ernesto
Spanish and Henrike probably Dutch. German versions would be Alexander,
Ernst and Heinrich.
BTW, yesterday I was asked to sign something with my full name. Would
take an extra page for this boy.
Michael Hübner
<mhue...@isbmh.com> http://www.isbmh.com/MHuebner/
PGP KeyID B7C60405 (1024 bits / 02 August 1997) on public servers
Michael Huebner
On Wed, 06 May 1998 16:04:09 -0500, The Spark Miller <her...@spark.org>
wrote:
>...where mothers have to get their childrens' names approved by the
>Polizei first? I think not...
I never heard of such thing. It's a registration office, not the police.
Michael Huebner
>In 1900 there were no computers in Germany.
>Today it would be impossible to have all these names
>in a computer.
I have them in my computer already since I downloaded the message :-)
Don't blame computers, it's something totally different. For some reason
they don't allow fancy names here in Germany unless they exist somewhere
already (which has to be proven). They would not accept names like
Melodie (Melody), Daemmerung (Dawn), Hoffnung (Hope) etc. They obviously
tolerate April in english pronounciation but not April in german
pronounciation. Also Mike (even Maik) or Steve are accepted as a first
names and not only shorts for Michael and Steven.
Another point is why I should need a second or further names. I have
never had any problems because I don't even have a middle name. I am
called by the first name all the time, any further one would be just on
paper (okay, I accept computer, too). If I were given all those names I
would probably change that and keep only Inti. It's easier for others
than Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo.
Wayne Brown
Goetz Kluge wrote:
> Some countries have rules on naming, some also have traditions,
> which again could put the kid into trouble later. In China
> kids sometimes get very terrible names in order to scare
> the ghosts away from them. As for very impatient ghost,
> a set of 12 names for a single kid perhaps also will do
> the job.
Luckily, however, Chinese children get new, proper names when their
parents feel that the child is old enough not to be imperiled by the
ghost danger. Just a few decades, Chinese peasants sometimes first gave
boys girls' names to confuse the ghosts. The Chinese peasant was afraid
that a ghost might detect his joy at the birth of a son and hasten to
take the son away from him. Thus the reason for the ruse.
Regards,-----WB.
______________________________________________________
Wo wird einst des Wandermueden
Letzte Ruhestaette sein?
Unter Palmen in dem Sueden?
Unter Linden an dem Rhein?
-----Heine
E.F.Schelby
mhue...@isbmh.com.removethis (Michael Huebner) wrote:
> If I were given all those names I
>would probably change that and keep only Inti. It's easier for others
>than Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo.
I wonder why parents wish to give fancy strings of names to
children. Is it for their own ego-gratification, or for their
offspring's benefit?
Gruss,
ES
David Moufarrege
Hello Wayne!
In a message Wayne Brown wrote to All:
>> Some countries have rules on naming, some also have traditions,
>> which again could put the kid into trouble later. In China
>> kids sometimes get very terrible names in order to scare
>> the ghosts away from them. As for very impatient ghost,
>> a set of 12 names for a single kid perhaps also will do
>> the job.
WB> Luckily, however, Chinese children get new, proper names when their
WB> parents feel that the child is old enough not to be imperiled by the
WB> ghost danger. Just a few decades, Chinese peasants sometimes first
WB> gave boys girls' names to confuse the ghosts. The Chinese peasant was
WB> afraid that a ghost might detect his joy at the birth of a son and
WB> hasten to take the son away from him. Thus the reason for the ruse.
Quebec (Canada) also insists on government regulation of names. This only seems
to be a problem to people who are not used to such "restriction".
-=David=-
---
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Fidonet - A great part of the on-line world. Find out more
+ about Fidonet at www.fidonet.org
+
+The views of this user are strictly his own.
+
+ User email address: David.Mo...@kraut.wnybbs.net
+ User FidoNet address: 1:2613/404
Achim Scheve
Hallo Michael!
mhue...@isbmh.com.removethis schrieb am 07.05.98 in der
UseNetMessage 35518bc1...@news.citylink.de (Gruppe
soc.culture.german):
>TSM> The 27-year-old housewife wanted to name the boy Chenekwahow
>TSM>Migiskau Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo Alessandro Majim Chayara Inti Ernesto
>TSM>Prithibi Kioma Pathar Henrike so that he would grow up "in the
>TSM>cultural spirit of the times.''
>The german names here are:
>- Alessandro
>- Ernesto
>- Henrike
MH>LOL None of those names is German. Alessandro is
MH>Italian, Ernesto Spanish and Henrike probably Dutch.
MH>German versions would be Alexander, Ernst and Heinrich.
These three names have no german origin, but they are
names used today for german children in Germany.
They are typical first names for people with
the right to vote now.
The other names are very very exotic.
MH>BTW, yesterday I was asked to sign something with my
MH>full name. Would take an extra page for this boy.
That is the main problem with these 12 names.
Achim
Achim Scheve
Hallo Michael!
mhue...@isbmh.com.removethis schrieb am 07.05.98 in der
UseNetMessage 35518d85...@news.citylink.de (Gruppe
soc.culture.german):
MH>I have them in my computer already since I downloaded the message :-)
But could you put these names into your computer by using
one standard punching card?
Please remember that these punching cards had 80 signs
only...
MH>Don't blame computers, it's something totally different. For some
MH>reason they don't allow fancy names here in Germany unless they exist
MH>somewhere already (which has to be proven). They would not accept
MH>names like Melodie (Melody), Daemmerung (Dawn), Hoffnung (Hope) etc.
MH>They obviously tolerate April in english pronounciation but not April
MH>in german pronounciation.
MH>Also Mike (even Maik) or Steve are accepted
MH>as a first names and not only shorts for Michael and Steven.
This centuries the short forms of names are accepted in
central europe as normal first names.
See f.e.:
Jan for Johannes
Hennes for Johannes
Jo for Johannes
Jo for Joachim
Achim for Joachim
MH> Another point is why I should need a second or further names. I have
MH>never had any problems because I don't even have a middle name. I am
MH>called by the first name all the time, any further one would be just
MH>on paper (okay, I accept computer, too).
A couple of first names(but not 12) could be usefull
for some reasons:
- Drop names if a first name or a complete name causes
a problem. Guess names like
Russ Meyer
Juergen Bartsch
Fritz Huonka
Helmut Kohl
- Solve Problems with very popular second names f.e.
Meyer. Many Michael Meyer exit, but f.e.
Michael Norbert Nepomuk Balthasar Casper Meyer would be
unique.
- Solve problems with too popular first names,
f.e. one time all in the office lay on the floor
laughing, because a girl asked:
Can I meet Achim (All three in the office had
the first name Achim...)
- Drop names if names are not accepted in other
cultures f.e. Fritz or Christian
- Clear difference between male and female
f.e. Rainer Maria is male
- Some names might not fit after marriage
f.e. Claire Schmitz marries Achim Grube
Andrea Schmitz marries Andrea Andreotti(male
german italian)
MH>If I were given all those
MH>names I would probably change that and keep only Inti. It's easier for
MH>others than Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo.
The best of most of the names is that they can be dropped.
Achim
Michael Huebner
It's for their own ego (call it stupidity) and children have to suffer
from it all their life. That's why we have this regulation, I guess.
Imagine how other children would call this boy. They don't know much
about politeness, yet, and can really be hurting.
E.F.Schelby
Achim_...@mk2.maus.sauerland.de (Achim Scheve) wrote:
>- Drop names if names are not accepted in other
> cultures f.e. Fritz
Not accepted in other countries ;)? In the US,
Fritz, or 'the Fritzes' stands as a generic nickname
(not necessarily friendly) for Germans, in the
manner of 'Kraut/s.'
ES
E.F.Schelby
mhue...@isbmh.com.removethis (Michael Huebner) wrote:
>On Fri, 08 May 1998 17:47:01 GMT, sch...@swcp.com (E.F.Schelby) wrote:
>
>>mhue...@isbmh.com.removethis (Michael Huebner) wrote:
>>
>>> If I were given all those names I
>>>would probably change that and keep only Inti. It's easier for others
>>>than Nikapi-Hun-Nizeo.
>>
>>I wonder why parents wish to give fancy strings of names to
>>children. Is it for their own ego-gratification, or for their
>>offspring's benefit?
>
>It's for their own ego (call it stupidity) and children have to suffer
>from it all their life. That's why we have this regulation, I guess.
>Imagine how other children would call this boy. They don't know much
>about politeness, yet, and can really be hurting.
You may like the following 'treatment' of Schiller by Ernest Kroll:
It's
Mit der Dummheit
worse
than a
Kaempfen Goetter
crime,
it's a
Selbst Vergebens
blunder.
BTW, I enjoyed visiting your web site.
Cheers,
ES
Achim Scheve
sch...@swcp.com schrieb am 11.05.98 in der UseNetMessage
35580dd...@198.59.115.25 (Gruppe soc.culture.german):
>- Drop names if names are not accepted in other
> cultures f.e. Fritz
ES>Not accepted in other countries ;)? In the US,
ES>Fritz, or 'the Fritzes' stands as a generic nickname
ES>(not necessarily friendly) for Germans, in the
ES>manner of 'Kraut/s.'
A not necessarily friendly generic nicname for a
ethnic group fits not as a name for a person.
Achim
E.F.Schelby
Achim_...@mk2.maus.sauerland.de (Achim Scheve) wrote:
A member of my family, Frederick, was called Fritz
since he was a kid. He's of fourth generation German
and English descent.
Cheers,
ES