"Asia"...?
Joy
"asian"-american here, since the concept of "asia" is kinda nebulous... are
people of Iranian, Afghan, or Yemeni descent considered "asian"? (Or do they
get their own "middle east" label?)
This is an honest question - I'm not trying to be annoying, really! The
meaning of "asian" has varied widely in my interaction with people from all
over, (e.g. in the UK the word "Asian" is most often associated with South
Asians and those of east-Asian origin are often labeled "Oriental") so I'm
just trying to establish what sorts of "Asian" Americans are considered
on-topic around here...
Thanks.
-joy
Buckaroo BANZAI
North East Asians : Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, Indigeneous
Siberian tribes
South East Asians : Vietnamese, Thais, Filippinos, Indonesians, Malays,
Burmese, Cambodians and so on...
South Asians : Indians, Bengladeshis, Pakistanis, Afghanis
Central Asians : Kirghiz, Ouzbeks, Kazahks, Turkmenes etc...
Middle Easterners : Iranians, Arabs.
Is it now clear enough for you ?
This newsgroup is mostly about East Asians but other Asians are welcome too.
"Joy" <queen_y...@THIShotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news:
191C91BDFE8ED411B844...@pfs21.ex.nus.edu.sg...
Bo
southeast, near-east (and other) asians. But in everyday life the term
asian applies mostly only to east asians, namely Chinese, Japanese,
and Korean.
As a funny side not, online asian porn is mostly from SouthEast asian
countries. So to some people, "asian" probably mean SE asians.
Moreover, in the US I don't know why the term "Oriental" has become
somewhat demeaning. I personally think it's fine.
"Joy" <queen_y...@THIShotmail.com> wrote in message news:<191C91BDFE8ED411B844...@pfs21.ex.nus.edu.sg>...
Wheeljak: weapon of mass destruction
>Yes in politics, which define asian to be consist of east, south,
>southeast, near-east (and other) asians. But in everyday life the term
>asian applies mostly only to east asians, namely Chinese, Japanese,
>and Korean.
>
>As a funny side not, online asian porn is mostly from SouthEast asian
>countries. So to some people, "asian" probably mean SE asians.
>
>Moreover, in the US I don't know why the term "Oriental" has become
>somewhat demeaning. I personally think it's fine.
>
I've asked that question myself in this group, but I got attacked.
"Yellow" (in the context of "black, white, red, and..." got me in
trouble, too.
To those words, I consider the reaction it inspires in SCAA2 to be
unreasonable. However, considering that this I post as a guest here
(I'm not Asian), I decided to compromise.
However, in this group, I've stood fast in my opinion that East Asians
don't have the right to exclusively claim the term "Asian", so when I
post, I always put "(East)" in front of "Asian". I haven't been
broken, but I agreed to bend.
--
Wheeljak
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
--Thomas Edison
Crunchy Cookie
news:4f190004.0210...@posting.google.com...
> Moreover, in the US I don't know why the term "Oriental" has become
> somewhat demeaning. I personally think it's fine.
It stems from overly sensitive and paranoid Asians who don't want to be
associated with rugs, and they're PC-wannabe enough to call foul and mess
their pants when other people use it. Personally I think it's fine too, and
damn useful when you want to distinguish one type of Asian from another in
everyday conversation...
Bo
there is a wheeljack on the NG. I check/post the NG from time to time.
Notice my "Don't you mean meatl prebaking?" post?
opt...@prime.net (Wheeljak: weapon of mass destruction) wrote in message news:<3db1f91d...@news-server.carolina.rr.com>...
Buckaroo BANZAI
"Bo" <sna...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news:
4f190004.0210...@posting.google.com...
> Yes in politics, which define asian to be consist of east, south,
> southeast, near-east (and other) asians. But in everyday life the term
> asian applies mostly only to east asians, namely Chinese, Japanese,
> and Korean.
East Asians does not equal only to Chinese, Japanese, Koreans.
East Asians = North East Asians + South East Asians.
North East Asians : Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, Indigeneous
Siberian tribes
South East Asians : Vietnamese, Thais, Filippinos, Indonesians, Malays,
Burmese, Cambodians and so on...
Vietnamese, Filippino, Malyays, Indonesians, Thais are East Asians too.
Buckaroo BANZAI
"Wheeljak: weapon of mass destruction" <opt...@prime.net> a écrit dans le
message news: 3db1f91d...@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
> On 19 Oct 2002 15:52:06 -0700, sna...@hotmail.com (Bo) wrote:
>
> >
> I've asked that question myself in this group, but I got attacked.
> "Yellow" (in the context of "black, white, red, and..." got me in
> trouble, too.
> To those words, I consider the reaction it inspires in SCAA2 to be
> unreasonable. However, considering that this I post as a guest here
> (I'm not Asian), I decided to compromise.
> However, in this group, I've stood fast in my opinion that East Asians
> don't have the right to exclusively claim the term "Asian",
You're right. Chinese, Japanese and Koreans don't have the right to
exclusively claim the term "Asian" or "East Asians".
South Asians, Central Asians, Middle Easterners are Asians too ( as far as I
lnow, Middle East is part of Asia ).
Sunrise Border
I agree, but with this caveat: do a Lexus-Nexus search on the word
"chink" in the NYT and see how many times that comes up, relative to
the number of times the word "niggardly" is used in the same rag...I
don't recall the figures, but I was challenged to do it once and was
rather surprised. The point of this exercise is to see just how
"semantic sensitivity" is demonstrated for one group and not another
-- which is (tautologically, yes) important in politically correct
politics, isn't it...I mean, while we're at it....
And "Oriental" doesn't necessarily distinguish "one type" of "Asian"
from "another"...in Europe, "Oriental" typically means "Asian" in the
more comprehensive sense now being discussed, whereas in the States
you're correct in noting the different *geographical* (as opposed to
the already much-belabored p.c.) connotations between "Oriental" and
"Asian"....
For purposes of general conversation in SCAA, I think something along
the lines of the ol' AG Edwim Meese line about pornography is
applicable: "you know what I mean."
Hell, some think talking about black and hispanic racism is O/T around
here.
<grin>
Wheeljak: weapon of mass destruction
>oh he. You post on alt.toys.transformers(.marketplace); or at least
>there is a wheeljack on the NG. I check/post the NG from time to time.
>Notice my "Don't you mean meatl prebaking?" post?
>
Sorry, Bo... different guy. I checked out a.t.transformers for a short
time years ago, and I discovered that it wasn't about the toys; it was
all about the money. I haven't been back since.
Jack Herer
Oriental is the opposite of Occidental. I guess the term "oriental"
has become associated with old stereotypes which is really the reason
it isn't liked by some. Most people who say it today aren't aware of
this.
I always thout of the "Orient" as a subset of Asia encompassing the
East Asian countries of Korea, Japan and China but I could be wrong...
Don Kirkman
<99db02f7.02102...@posting.google.com>:
>"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<yZos9.19166$zE6....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...
>> "Bo" <sna...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4f190004.0210...@posting.google.com...
>> > Moreover, in the US I don't know why the term "Oriental" has become
>> > somewhat demeaning. I personally think it's fine.
>> It stems from overly sensitive and paranoid Asians who don't want to be
>> associated with rugs, and they're PC-wannabe enough to call foul and mess
>> their pants when other people use it. Personally I think it's fine too, and
>> damn useful when you want to distinguish one type of Asian from another in
>> everyday conversation...
>I agree, but with this caveat: do a Lexus-Nexus search on the word
>"chink" in the NYT and see how many times that comes up, relative to
>the number of times the word "niggardly" is used in the same rag...I
>don't recall the figures, but I was challenged to do it once and was
>rather surprised. The point of this exercise is to see just how
>"semantic sensitivity" is demonstrated for one group and not another
>-- which is (tautologically, yes) important in politically correct
>politics, isn't it...I mean, while we're at it....
The real point is you're making a totally meaningless comparison.
"Chink" is an aging pejorative for Chinese; "niggardly" is a word that
has no ethnic or racist meaning whatever--it means a miserly, tight-wad,
chintzy person, and originally came from a Scandinavian word. The root
is "niggard," something you could have learned this from any English
dictionary.
>And "Oriental" doesn't necessarily distinguish "one type" of "Asian"
>from "another"...in Europe, "Oriental" typically means "Asian" in the
>more comprehensive sense now being discussed, whereas in the States
>you're correct in noting the different *geographical* (as opposed to
>the already much-belabored p.c.) connotations between "Oriental" and
>"Asian"....
Oddly, some of my Japanese American acquaintances use "Oriental" and
"Asian" interchangeably, so they don't seem to be aware of either the PC
or the geographic distinction.
--
Don
don...@covad.net
HK
origins, geographical, etc. arguments re: the "oriental" vs. "asian" terms
one too many times and frankly I'm kinda sick of it. Some people will
continue to refer to me as "Oriental" and I will continue to make a mental
note to myself whenever that happens that this person is either: 1) too old
to change their language preferences, 2) uneducated, or 3) too stubborn to
use the preferred PC term. I will excuse the first two, but the last I will
hold a grudge against.
"Jack Herer" <anon1...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:9275ab5d.0210...@posting.google.com...
Crunchy Cookie
> "chink" in the NYT and see how many times that comes up, relative to
> the number of times the word "niggardly" is used in the same rag...I
> don't recall the figures, but I was challenged to do it once and was
> rather surprised. The point of this exercise is to see just how
> "semantic sensitivity" is demonstrated for one group and not another
> -- which is (tautologically, yes) important in politically correct
> politics, isn't it...I mean, while we're at it....
There's sort of a difference: "chink" was around as a word of the English
language way longer. I hear "but there are still a few chinks in the armor"
fairly often.
Spe...@rosedonuts.com
Jack Herer wrote:
>
> Oriental is the opposite of Occidental. I guess the term "oriental"
> has become associated with old stereotypes which is really the reason
> it isn't liked by some. Most people who say it today aren't aware of
> this.
>
> I always thout of the "Orient" as a subset of Asia encompassing the
> East Asian countries of Korea, Japan and China but I could be wrong...
Well, using the term "oriental' to describe people of east and southeast asian dessent is incorrect geographically. History
books often show the "orient" to encompass many parts of the middle-east, east asia and parts of southern asia.
Besides, you would just sound like a throw-back from the 70's or something instead of an intelligent human being.
Sperry
--
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed by me do not necessarily reflect those at Rose donuts.
Jack's Hand
Crunchy Cookie wrote:
Go figure. We're slow to learn. It takes too long to take off when you need to take a leak, and it itches so. Guess we're a stubborn bunch :)
Wheeljak: weapon of mass destruction
>
>Jack Herer wrote:
>
>>
>> Oriental is the opposite of Occidental. I guess the term "oriental"
>> has become associated with old stereotypes which is really the reason
>> it isn't liked by some. Most people who say it today aren't aware of
>> this.
>>
>> I always thout of the "Orient" as a subset of Asia encompassing the
>> East Asian countries of Korea, Japan and China but I could be wrong...
>
>Well, using the term "oriental' to describe people of east and southeast asian dessent is incorrect geographically. History
>books often show the "orient" to encompass many parts of the middle-east, east asia and parts of southern asia.
>
If you think about it, the term "Asian" itself is inaccurate, if you
go back to the roots of the term. When the term was originally used,
it was only used to define where Turkey, or "Asia Minor" is. So, why
doesn't anybody get pissed off when they are called Asian?
I can hear it now: "I'm not from Turkey, you stupid bigot! I'm
Manchurian, and you're a jerk for not knowing that!"
There are millions of people today who bear a label that's attributed
to a geographical error. They're called "American Indians," and "West
Indians".
Of the (East) Asians I have met, very few of them really had a problem
with the term "Oriental." Mostly, it's these annoying, self-righteous,
guilty Liberal Arts degree whites who think they have the authority to
tell everyone what they can and cannot think.
Back in college, one of those PC dumbasses told me that I should know
more about African music, because I'm black. I won't get into details,
but let's just say that I effectively persuaded her to disabuse
herself of that notion...
>Besides, you would just sound like a throw-back from the 70's or something instead of an intelligent human being.
So, people in the 70s weren't intelligent? That's funny; it was my
understanding that the semiconductor, which has made all of our
internet diatribes a possibility, was made viable in the 70s.
Sperry, usually you talk sense. Today, I think you are in sugar shock,
or something. Lay off the bear claws for awhile, friend.
Spe...@rosedonuts.com
Wheeljak: weapon of mass destruction wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 04:30:07 GMT, Spe...@RoseDonuts.com wrote:
> >
> >Jack Herer wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Oriental is the opposite of Occidental. I guess the term "oriental"
> >> has become associated with old stereotypes which is really the reason
> >> it isn't liked by some. Most people who say it today aren't aware of
> >> this.
> >>
> >> I always thout of the "Orient" as a subset of Asia encompassing the
> >> East Asian countries of Korea, Japan and China but I could be wrong...
> >
> >Well, using the term "oriental' to describe people of east and southeast asian dessent is incorrect geographically. History
> >books often show the "orient" to encompass many parts of the middle-east, east asia and parts of southern asia.
> >
> Your point being...?
Well, someone mentioned that if someone used "oriental" to describe him as an AA, it was okay because it was accurate and it
described the people of east asia (atleast, that's what i thought he/she was insinuating). My point was that using "oriental" to
describe people from east asia is also inaccurate because the "orient" encompasss not just east asia but also the middle east.
>
> If you think about it, the term "Asian" itself is inaccurate, if you
> go back to the roots of the term. When the term was originally used,
> it was only used to define where Turkey, or "Asia Minor" is. So, why
> doesn't anybody get pissed off when they are called Asian?
I don't know about other people but, personally, i would like to be called Asian not Oriental. Being called Oriental today is
like calling blacks Negro. Does anybody call blacks negro, anymore? I sure don't hear it anymore and i bet nobody in the media
is going to call blacks Negro because it sounds funny and frankly, they might be labeled a racist especially if the person is
non-black.
>
>
> There are millions of people today who bear a label that's attributed
> to a geographical error. They're called "American Indians," and "West
> Indians".
>
> Of the (East) Asians I have met, very few of them really had a problem
> with the term "Oriental."
...then we are definitely meeting different people. Most Asians i know don't like to be described as oriental. I'm sure some
just don't give a shit but most i talked too (whenever the issue comes up in coversations) just don't care to be called
oriental.
I guess it all comes to down to what the person/group of people want to be called, isn't it? I just don't see a need to
challenge anyone's opinion on how one would define himself/herself.
> Mostly, it's these annoying, self-righteous,
> guilty Liberal Arts degree whites who think they have the authority to
> tell everyone what they can and cannot think.
> Back in college, one of those PC dumbasses told me that I should know
> more about African music, because I'm black. I won't get into details,
> but let's just say that I effectively persuaded her to disabuse
> herself of that notion...
Ouch.
>
>
> >Besides, you would just sound like a throw-back from the 70's or something instead of an intelligent human being.
> So, people in the 70s weren't intelligent? That's funny; it was my
> understanding that the semiconductor, which has made all of our
> internet diatribes a possibility, was made viable in the 70s.
...and they smoke pots too but that's another story. Besides, don't take it so literally.
>
>
> Sperry, usually you talk sense. Today, I think you are in sugar shock,
> or something. Lay off the bear claws for awhile, friend.
lol.
Sperry
>
>
> --
> Wheeljak
> "I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
> --Thomas Edison
--
Don Kirkman
<%JKs9.39146$La5.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>:
Of course you do. The non-racist-bigoted word 'chink' means a crack or
a flaw or a week spot--a crack in a wall, and is an old English word.
The two words happen to have the same sound/spelling, not uncommon in
most languages.
Isn't it fun watching people trying to make connections between words
and attitudes without doing even the most basic checking on the origins
and meanings of the words? But then without that we'd lose half the
posts in scaa. :-)
--
Don
don...@covad.net
Don Kirkman
<A0Ks9.30555$Up6.6...@twister.nyc.rr.com>:
>As an occasional visitor to this NG, I've seen the whole semantics, word
>origins, geographical, etc. arguments re: the "oriental" vs. "asian" terms
>one too many times and frankly I'm kinda sick of it. Some people will
>continue to refer to me as "Oriental" and I will continue to make a mental
>note to myself whenever that happens that this person is either: 1) too old
>to change their language preferences, 2) uneducated, or 3) too stubborn to
>use the preferred PC term. I will excuse the first two, but the last I will
>hold a grudge against.
"Preferred PC" is an oxymoron.
>"Jack Herer" <anon1...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>news:9275ab5d.0210...@posting.google.com...
>> "Buckaroo BANZAI" <buckaro...@noos.fr> wrote in message
>news:<3db273f3$0$18227$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>...
>> > "Bo" <sna...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news:
>> > 4f190004.0210...@posting.google.com...
>> > > Yes in politics, which define asian to be consist of east, south,
>> > > southeast, near-east (and other) asians. But in everyday life the term
>> > > asian applies mostly only to east asians, namely Chinese, Japanese,
>> > > and Korean.
[Catalog of Asian types and regions]
>> > > Moreover, in the US I don't know why the term "Oriental" has become
>> > > somewhat demeaning. I personally think it's fine.
>> Oriental is the opposite of Occidental. I guess the term "oriental"
>> has become associated with old stereotypes which is really the reason
>> it isn't liked by some. Most people who say it today aren't aware of
>> this.
>> I always thout of the "Orient" as a subset of Asia encompassing the
>> East Asian countries of Korea, Japan and China but I could be wrong...
--
Don
don...@covad.net
slackerbot
"asians" consist of people from far east and even the pacific islands.
people from the middle east are just called middle easterners. in the
UK, middle easterners are called "asians".
but for this group, the majority of "asian" americans in here are from
the far east and pacific islands.
---
rich
Charleyz Brown Da SnOOpy!
are Asian... If you are open or God forbid, dated a White Guy before then
beware these be unfriendly waters my lass.
"Joy" <queen_y...@THIShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:191C91BDFE8ED411B844...@pfs21.ex.nus.edu.sg...
Joy
> As long as you hate White guys you be ok for the lame-brains in
> here. You are Asian... If you are open or God forbid, dated a
> White Guy before then beware these be unfriendly waters my lass.
Oh dear. You're joking, surely.
-joy
Charleyz Brown Da SnOOpy!
few days. Then Snoopy and me took over to battle the nitwits. I've been
here ever since.
They were not very kind and full of nice insults, Karen Lee has managed to
survive in here because she is Anti-white.
I put up with this crap the whole time I lived in Hawaii. I like Asian
women, and will not be intimidated away.
"Joy" <queen_y...@THIShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:191C91BDFE8ED411B844...@pfs21.ex.nus.edu.sg...