support/discussion channels: mailing lists, irc, SO

[Mark Harrah]

I've previously stated my opinion that StackOverflow is much more active and is a better forum for handling questions than this mailing list. Few questions go unanswered there, whereas quite a few go unanswered here. The setup at StackOverflow is better for managing questions. For example, getting the attention of multiple communities can be done with tags instead of cross-posting to multiple mailing lists.

I've also previously supported keeping this mailing list around and not having an sbt-dev list. However, I propose that this mailing list be phased out in favor of:

* StackOverflow for questions
* a new sbt-dev mailing list for discussions
* #sbt on irc for questions and discussions

The idea is to direct questions to StackOverflow and have everything else go to sbt-dev. I'm pretty convinced of the move, but I might be persuaded otherwise.

Thanks,
Mark

[Doug Tangren]

I'd keep it around as a resource for historic information. There's still a gold mine of information to be mined from questions answered here. I'm cool with the proposal though. I like the idea of have separate places for user questions and plugin authoring questions. The line may be a little blurred there though.

 

Thanks,
Mark

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[Mark Harrah]

On Tue, 9 Jul 2013 09:44:24 -0400
Doug Tangren <d.ta...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Mark Harrah <dmha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've previously stated my opinion that StackOverflow is much more active
> > and is a better forum for handling questions than this mailing list. Few
> > questions go unanswered there, whereas quite a few go unanswered here. The
> > setup at StackOverflow is better for managing questions. For example,
> > getting the attention of multiple communities can be done with tags instead
> > of cross-posting to multiple mailing lists.
> >
> > I've also previously supported keeping this mailing list around and not
> > having an sbt-dev list. However, I propose that this mailing list be
> > phased out in favor of:
> >
> > * StackOverflow for questions
> > * a new sbt-dev mailing list for discussions
> > * #sbt on irc for questions and discussions
> >
> > The idea is to direct questions to StackOverflow and have everything else
> > go to sbt-dev. I'm pretty convinced of the move, but I might be persuaded
> > otherwise.
>
> I'd keep it around as a resource for historic information. There's still a
> gold mine of information to be mined from questions answered here. I'm cool
> with the proposal though. I like the idea of have separate places for user
> questions and plugin authoring questions. The line may be a little blurred
> there though.

Sorry, I didn't mean delete it, just transition to archival mode or however that works. StackOverflow would also be for plugin authoring questions since indeed there is no sharp line based only on topic. It is when something should be changed, questioned, reconsidered, proposed, or otherwise discussed that sbt-dev should be used. The intent is not to make it difficult to decide where to go and yell at people for picking the wrong one. If something probably has a definitive answer, use StackOverflow. If not, use sbt-dev.

-Mark

[Seth Tisue]

If people really want to ask usage questions on a mailing list,
there's always scala-tools.

[Doug Tangren]

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Seth Tisue <se...@tisue.net> wrote:

If people really want to ask usage questions on a mailing list,
there's always scala-tools.

there's still a scala-tools list? :)

 

[eugene yokota]

+1 on StackOverflow. Would it be useful to set up tag conventions like "sbt sbt013" since the answers could

outlive the compatibility? (assuming there will be 1.x, 2.x some day)

A minor concern is that the questions need to comply with their guideline, which requires the questions

be a clear-cut non-subjective ones. "I'm having trouble with xyz plugin. help!" might get downvoted

by the moderators before someone from sbt community can get to it. You could say it's a good thing or a bad thing.

How about sbt t-shirt for anyone who gets gold badge on "sbt" tag? (1000+ score for 200+ answers)

-eugene

[Doug Tangren]

On Aug 18, 2013 2:09 AM, "eugene yokota" <eed3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> +1 on StackOverflow. Would it be useful to set up tag conventions like "sbt sbt013" since the answers could
> outlive the compatibility? (assuming there will be 1.x, 2.x some day)
>
> A minor concern is that the questions need to comply with their guideline, which requires the questions
> be a clear-cut non-subjective ones. "I'm having trouble with xyz plugin. help!" might get downvoted
> by the moderators before someone from sbt community can get to it. You could say it's a good thing or a bad thing.
>

I've seen an increasing number of play specific questions posted here. Its kind of annoying to me as a subscriber of the sbt list. Its unwanted noise.

The answer to I'm having trouble with foos bar plugin should be asked instead at github.com/foo/bar/issues/new

> How about sbt t-shirt for anyone who gets gold badge on "sbt" tag? (1000+ score for 200+ answers)
>

> -eugene
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:23:56 AM UTC-4, Mark Harrah wrote:
>>
>> I've previously stated my opinion that StackOverflow is much more active and is a better forum for handling questions than this mailing list.  Few questions go unanswered there, whereas quite a few go unanswered here.  The setup at StackOverflow is better for managing questions.  For example, getting the attention of multiple communities can be done with tags instead of cross-posting to multiple mailing lists.
>>
>> I've also previously supported keeping this mailing list around and not having an sbt-dev list.  However, I propose that this mailing list be phased out in favor of:
>>
>> * StackOverflow for questions
>> * a new sbt-dev mailing list for discussions
>> * #sbt on irc for questions and discussions
>>
>> The idea is to direct questions to StackOverflow and have everything else go to sbt-dev.  I'm pretty convinced of the move, but I might be persuaded otherwise.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>

[virtualeyes]

Agreed, I've never like Google Groups format anyway, a complete mess.

Saying that, I completely missed this thread, it should be titled something like "ATTENTION!!: This list is being phased out, use SO, IRC alternatives"

On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:23:56 AM UTC-4, Mark Harrah wrote:

[Mark Harrah]

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:02:20 -0700 (PDT)
virtualeyes <sit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreed, I've never like Google Groups format anyway, a complete mess.

For what it is worth, I use it only as a mailing list.

> Saying that, I completely missed this thread, it should be titled something
> like "ATTENTION!!: This list is being phased out, use SO, IRC alternatives"

It was only a proposal so far- it wasn't accepted or anything and the phasing out hasn't yet started. So far, there have been no objections, so there might in fact be an ATTENTION!! email soon.

-Mark

>
> On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:23:56 AM UTC-4, Mark Harrah wrote:
> >
> > I've previously stated my opinion that StackOverflow is much more active
> > and is a better forum for handling questions than this mailing list. Few
> > questions go unanswered there, whereas quite a few go unanswered here. The
> > setup at StackOverflow is better for managing questions. For example,
> > getting the attention of multiple communities can be done with tags instead
> > of cross-posting to multiple mailing lists.
> >
> > I've also previously supported keeping this mailing list around and not
> > having an sbt-dev list. However, I propose that this mailing list be
> > phased out in favor of:
> >
> > * StackOverflow for questions
> > * a new sbt-dev mailing list for discussions
> > * #sbt on irc for questions and discussions
> >
> > The idea is to direct questions to StackOverflow and have everything else
> > go to sbt-dev. I'm pretty convinced of the move, but I might be persuaded
> > otherwise.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
>

[Mark Harrah]

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 02:48:16 -0400
Doug Tangren <d.ta...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 18, 2013 2:09 AM, "eugene yokota" <eed3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > +1 on StackOverflow. Would it be useful to set up tag conventions like
> "sbt sbt013" since the answers could
> > outlive the compatibility? (assuming there will be 1.x, 2.x some day)
> >
> > A minor concern is that the questions need to comply with their
> guideline, which requires the questions
> > be a clear-cut non-subjective ones. "I'm having trouble with xyz plugin.
> help!" might get downvoted
> > by the moderators before someone from sbt community can get to it. You
> could say it's a good thing or a bad thing.
> >
>
> I've seen an increasing number of play specific questions posted here. Its
> kind of annoying to me as a subscriber of the sbt list. Its unwanted noise.

What I like about StackOverflow is that you can post a question once but draw the attention of multiple communities via tags.

> The answer to I'm having trouble with foos bar plugin should be asked
> instead at github.com/foo/bar/issues/new

We've always allowed smaller plugins, like the idea, assembly or eclipse plugins, to use this mailing list, but larger things like play, activator, or whatever should be elsewhere. It can be a fine line where the question is asked. In any case, StackOverflow mitigates this somewhat by being a "shared" mailing list.

> > How about sbt t-shirt for anyone who gets gold badge on "sbt" tag? (1000+
> score for 200+ answers)

That might be ok. It would require an sbt t-shirt to exist, which probably means a logo, which I've never cared much about. I don't mind proposals as long as the proposers don't mind the proposal not being accepted, possibly for stupid reasons.

-Mark

[Mark Harrah]

On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 23:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
eugene yokota <eed3...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 on StackOverflow. Would it be useful to set up tag conventions like "sbt
> sbt013" since the answers could
> outlive the compatibility? (assuming there will be 1.x, 2.x some day)

Hmm, not sure. Other opinions welcome on this. (Although, in the end, I think the StackOverlow model handles this kind of question on its own by proposals+votes for tags?)

> A minor concern is that the questions need to comply with their guideline,
> which requires the questions
> be a clear-cut non-subjective ones.

I agree. Some subjective questions are useful. We'll probably just have to use sbt-dev for that.

> "I'm having trouble with xyz plugin.
> help!" might get downvoted
> by the moderators before someone from sbt community can get to it.

I'm not sure I see the problem here, though. You can ask a question and use comments to refine it. You should always be more specific than just "help!" and that StackOverflow encourages/enforces that is a good thing in my opinion.

> You
> could say it's a good thing or a bad thing.
>
> How about sbt t-shirt for anyone who gets gold badge on "sbt" tag? (1000+
> score for 200+ answers)

(Sorry, I thought Doug suggested this- I responded to this in reply to his email.)

-Mark

> -eugene
>
> On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:23:56 AM UTC-4, Mark Harrah wrote:
> >
> > I've previously stated my opinion that StackOverflow is much more active
> > and is a better forum for handling questions than this mailing list. Few
> > questions go unanswered there, whereas quite a few go unanswered here. The
> > setup at StackOverflow is better for managing questions. For example,
> > getting the attention of multiple communities can be done with tags instead
> > of cross-posting to multiple mailing lists.
> >
> > I've also previously supported keeping this mailing list around and not
> > having an sbt-dev list. However, I propose that this mailing list be
> > phased out in favor of:
> >
> > * StackOverflow for questions
> > * a new sbt-dev mailing list for discussions
> > * #sbt on irc for questions and discussions
> >
> > The idea is to direct questions to StackOverflow and have everything else
> > go to sbt-dev. I'm pretty convinced of the move, but I might be persuaded
> > otherwise.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
>

[nafg]

Why not create sbt-dev and perhaps encourage people not to use this list, but leave it around for the time being anyway?

On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:23:56 AM UTC-4, Mark Harrah wrote:

[Mark Harrah]

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 14:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
nafg <nafto...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why not create sbt-dev and perhaps encourage people not to use this list,
> but leave it around for the time being anyway?

Yeah, there would be a transition period, possibly subscribing this list to sbt-dev for a month and then making it read-only or something.

-Mark

>
> On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:23:56 AM UTC-4, Mark Harrah wrote:
> >
> > I've previously stated my opinion that StackOverflow is much more active
> > and is a better forum for handling questions than this mailing list. Few
> > questions go unanswered there, whereas quite a few go unanswered here. The
> > setup at StackOverflow is better for managing questions. For example,
> > getting the attention of multiple communities can be done with tags instead
> > of cross-posting to multiple mailing lists.
> >
> > I've also previously supported keeping this mailing list around and not
> > having an sbt-dev list. However, I propose that this mailing list be
> > phased out in favor of:
> >
> > * StackOverflow for questions
> > * a new sbt-dev mailing list for discussions
> > * #sbt on irc for questions and discussions
> >
> > The idea is to direct questions to StackOverflow and have everything else
> > go to sbt-dev. I'm pretty convinced of the move, but I might be persuaded
> > otherwise.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
>