Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

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Alfred

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May 11, 2017, 4:40:11 PM5/11/17
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As someone who knows many Yimbys, but also knows many people who equate Yimbys with gentrification, and doesn't see a mutual understanding anytime soon, I have an idea:

What if the Yimby movement makes peace with these neighborhoods?  Ignore market rate projects in the 10% of neighborhoods in the Bay Area that are low income, and focus on advocating for projects in the other 90%?  

I get why people with connections to neighborhoods like the Mission are concerned.  The current pattern of development will wipe out 75% of retail space and raise commercial rents in the remainder.  It's true that cities are made of people and not buildings, but communities that only have housing but no workplaces or hangouts don't last long.

YIMBY means Yes In My Backyard, not Yes In My Favorite Bar.  There's a difference.

Thoughts?

Alfred

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Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 4:45:22 PM5/11/17
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As a matter of practice that's already what's been happening for the last year & a half. In that time in SF our legislative organizing has been around HOME SF, which doesn't affect the mission, the state laws, and then the lawsuits in Lafayette & Berkeley.



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Justin Horner

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May 11, 2017, 4:47:33 PM5/11/17
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Yeah, and #upzonerockridge is in that vein, too

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Mike Schiraldi

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May 11, 2017, 5:23:51 PM5/11/17
to Justin Horner, Sonja Trauss, Alfred, sfbarentersfed, east-bay-forward
I can't go along with this idea. I believe that housing density
belongs near transit hubs, and two of the biggest transit hubs in the
city are Mission Street and 16th / 24th. It's one of the best
neighborhoods in America to live a car-free or car-light lifestyle,
and that walkability is *the* major reason everyone wants to live
there.

If we don't build more housing in the Mission, it's going to lead to
displacement and gentrification, and I'm not going to pretend that
isn't the case just because some people have tricked lots of San
Franciscans into believing the opposite.
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Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 5:29:07 PM5/11/17
to Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, Alfred, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed
Not to mention, the mission isn't a low income neighborhood. 

I'm recommitted to a policy of asking where anti-gentrification activists think the people who would have lived in the monster, if it existed now, are living instead. 

Anti-gentrification activists are committed to ignoring the question, but I figure if we ask it calmly and simply and over and over eventually they'll have to come to terms with it. 
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andrew sullivan

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May 11, 2017, 5:36:24 PM5/11/17
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I definitely think extortionists like Calle 24 need to be called out.  Their latest claim that they prefer parking to housing (which will surely be the prelude to their having their hand out for "community benefits") cannot be allowed to stand.

I wonder if there's an opportunity to build a new "community" (that word again) of pro-housing neighbors in the Mission?  I find it's much more compelling when the YIMBY is talking about their own back yard (which is why I am always talking about the Haight and Divisadero).


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Starchild

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May 11, 2017, 5:40:03 PM5/11/17
to Sonja Trauss, Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, Alfred, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed

That's a great question to ask, Sonja! What Mike Schiraldi said also makes sense to me.

Another irony is that it seems like many people who protest building more housing allegedly because they want neighborhoods to be or remain low income, are constantly pushing other non-housing changes that contribute to gentrifying those neighborhoods – adding more parks and better schools, more police services (police have, I think with some justification, been called "the army of the rich"), cleaner streets, shutting down nightlife, etc.

Love & Liberty,
                               ((( starchild )))


Robert R. Tillman

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May 11, 2017, 6:02:04 PM5/11/17
to Starchild, Sonja Trauss, Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, Alfred, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed

Dear Starchild,

 

I agree. Having grown up in this duplex for my first 10 years and in this semi-detached house in my next 8 years before attending college, I have quite a bit of sympathy for working class people. In my opinion, San Francisco screws working class people in every way possible, while piously claiming to care about them.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bob

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

BRIAN WARWICK

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May 11, 2017, 7:05:43 PM5/11/17
to andrew sullivan, Sonja Trauss, Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, Alfred, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed
I interviewed a lot of NIMBYs for research I did for Paavo Monkkonen last year. (This paper was the result.) One of the things I asked groups like Calle 24 was if they were willing or interested in forming coalitions with YIMBYs to promote development in places like Silicon Valley. They were amenable to the idea, although they mostly said that they were too busy dealing with their own neighborhoods to branch out elsewhere.

I think it's a fair criticism of the YIMBY movement that it has not done enough organizing or outreach in low-income POC communities.

--Brian

Brian Warwick
Master of Urban and Regional Planning
Luskin School of Public Policy
University of California, Los Angeles

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Scott Feeney

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May 11, 2017, 7:08:57 PM5/11/17
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Thanks for posting this, Alfred. I support individual projects in the Mission (where I live), but I try to do it sensitively. I think it's okay to disagree with a group like Causa Justa or PODER as to whether, say, 1979 Mission should be built, but it's problematic to use rhetoric that equates them to rich homeowners, or to write them out of the conversation altogether.

I was deeply disappointed to see Sonja recently do this when, opining on who the "main players" who disagree with YIMBYs are, she listed only white people. Never mind that you can go to the Plaza 16 website and find a half dozen or more POC-led groups who are skeptical of the YIMBY approach; none of these appeared on the list. YIMBY leaders should not only not engage in such forms of erasure themselves, they should educate and provide guidelines to members on how to disagree respectfully with other activists.

I believe we can build coalitions with low-income communities, but nobody is going to trust us if we try to erase their existence and say it's just us against Tim Redmond and Peter Cohen and that's the whole picture. We need to be willing to listen and learn from people's experiences whether or not their grasp of the complexities of urban economics is 100% correct.

Mike Schiraldi, I have this conversation with a lot of YIMBYs where they say, "The Mission has BART. We invest so much in regional rail. Why isn't the zoned density higher?" And I reply, "Glen Park also has BART, and it's zoned for duplexes only. No apartment buildings even. It has the lowest usage of any BART station in the city and is the only station that has seen usage decline over the past five years. If we're concerned about unreasonably low density zoning next to BART, why don't we start there?" And people reply, "...oh. I didn't think about that."

These conversations have shown me how deeply ingrained the idea is that low density, well-to-do, white neighborhoods are sacrosanct. Even YIMBYs don't always think to question it. But we should. It would be deeply wrong and perpetuate the racist, classist logic of segregation if we consented to leave Glen Park, Noe Valley, West Portal and Forest Hill just as they are while turning the Mission and the Tenderloin into Hong Kong. On this point, I agree with the YIMBY leadership. We should not be looking to further upzone low-income neighborhoods that are already dense. HOME-SF, if it passes next week (knock on wood) will be the first small victory in the more important battle for density equity.

Diego Aguilar-Canabal

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May 11, 2017, 7:24:28 PM5/11/17
to BRIAN WARWICK, andrew sullivan, Sonja Trauss, Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, Alfred, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed
Brian, this looks like a phenomenal paper and I look forward to reading it more thoroughly. Thanks for sharing.

I share a lot of Sonja's frustration in feeling that any effort to bridge this gap with rainbows and kisses is a fool's errand. Mostly because lately YIMBY efforts have indeed focused on wealthy exclusive suburbs, as well as municipal and state-wide reform. Many of these deluded anti-gentrification activists still pile on the heinous slander and don't seem to care. 

Since Andrew Szeto's garbage hit-piece has been making the rounds, I'll go on the record saying that he's a complete moron and that's not uncommon in his circles. The San Francisco Tenants Union appears to be run by extremely stupid people. The best thing we can do is ignore them and let them be ineffective. Results will speak for ourselves. 

That being said, the critiques about lack of outreach to POC/lower-income communities are extremely valid and should be addressed. In Berkeley, we have seen some progress on this front by building a good working relationship with Councilmember Ben Bartlett. In Oakland, too, my impression is that EBF members are building a good rapport with Councilmembers Abel Guillen and Lynette G McElhaney. I don't know why there hasn't been much traction in San Francisco on this front.

To that point, it's news to me that Calle 24 has offered to join pro-housing efforts in Silicon Valley in theory (though it doesn't surprise me that they're too busy to follow through). Does anyone know if we can make some progress on this front?

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Mike Schiraldi

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May 11, 2017, 7:31:43 PM5/11/17
to Scott Feeney, SFBA Renters Federation
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Scott Feeney <sc...@oceanbase.org> wrote:
> Mike Schiraldi, I have this conversation with a lot of YIMBYs where
> they say, "The Mission has BART. We invest so much in regional
> rail. Why isn't the zoned density higher?"
>
> And I reply, "Glen Park
> also has BART, and it's zoned for duplexes only. No apartment
> buildings even. It has the lowest usage of any BART station in
> the city and is the only station that has seen usage decline over
> the past five years. If we're concerned about unreasonably low
> density zoning next to BART, why don't we start there?"

The lack of density around Glen Park BART is an abomination. Directly across the street from this station is the only BART parking lot in the city of San Francisco. Adjacent is a bunch of one, two, and three-story buildings. Catercorner is another parking lot. Across the other street is another group of one, two, and three-story buildings. I wrote about it here and posted a map here.

But the difference is, Glen Park isn't seeing much gentrification, because as you say, there aren't many apartment buildings in the neighborhood (you're wrong to say there are none, though -- example, example, example), and thus, very little eviction going on. We should absolutely be fighting to upzone around all our transit hubs, Glen Park included. But if you want to fight displacement, you need to focus on the Mission.

andrew sullivan

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May 11, 2017, 7:47:49 PM5/11/17
to Diego Aguilar-Canabal, BRIAN WARWICK, Sonja Trauss, Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, Alfred, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed
I'm sure there are opportunities to work together, and deals to be made.  Consider the deal that Chris Daly struck for Rincon a few years ago that has led to a big increase in housing construction in that neighborhood - it looked like a payoff of corrupt groups with their hands out, but it was (I think) worth it for the results.  

I think the latest round of YIMBY bashing is happening because the other side can see that the pro-housing side is actually making progress.  It might present a good opportunity for deal-making, with the right broker.  Not sure who that would be, though.

BRIAN WARWICK

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May 11, 2017, 7:52:04 PM5/11/17
to Diego Aguilar-Canabal, andrew sullivan, Sonja Trauss, Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, Alfred, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed
I wouldn't say that Calle 24 "offered" to join pro-housing efforts in Silicon Valley, just that when I broached the idea with Erick Arguello he seemed theoretically open to it. I heard similar things from Peter Popadopolous, Avrum Shepard of the Greater West Portal Neighborhood Association, and even Peter Cohen--they all understood that supply and demand was an issue at the macro level. Of course the catch is that people are always opposed to new housing in their own neighborhood.

Brian Warwick
Master of Urban and Regional Planning
Luskin School of Public Policy
University of California, Los Angeles

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com> wrote:

Diego Aguilar-Canabal

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May 11, 2017, 7:53:05 PM5/11/17
to andrew sullivan, sfbarentersfed, SK Trauss, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, BRIAN WARWICK, Justin Horner
Good points Andrew. I think some horse trading with Calle 24 folks is a good idea but I don't think they have any influence with SFTU/McElroy types as "brokers" or whatever. 

Regardless of intent, this is most likely to cause blowback in the east bay where the movement has much less name recognition. I want to commend EBF leaders for proactively anticipating this, but it is now time for all of us to consider how to more aggressively counteract negative public images. (do we have to just look better, or be better? Probably both!) 

Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 7:58:15 PM5/11/17
to Mike Schiraldi, Scott Feeney, SFBA Renters Federation
Those white guys I mentioned are the main anti-housing players. Scott I think youre confusing having vehement political rhetoric with being a heavy hitting political player. 

I also don't think that opposing housing is actually the number one priority of anti-displacement orgs. Based on what happened with the mission moratorium and on conversions with people who have been in politics longer than me. 

The mission moratorium started out as an eviction moratorium, with organizing help from ACCE, but it turned into a housing moratorium when homeowners and landlords got into the room. This is what Erik Arguello told me. In the moratorium legislation before the board (not the ballot measure) there was language about creating an EIFD (a type of budget set aside) specifically to subsidize housing in the mission. That disappeared because homeowners didn't like it, Fernando Marti told me that. 

The anti-displacement folks have anti-housing people (Erik arguello, CCHO) in their coalition, and they don't mind going along, but I do believe them when they say that's not their priority. 

Long time politics people have been telling me since day one that the mission activists have always been kind of anti-housing, but they mostly were organizing for jobs and economic development until redevelopment ended. That the virulent anti-housing rhetoric is new since  2012. 

I don't see what would be the benefit of ignoring their stated mission and accusing them of having a primary goal that they don't recognize. It annoys the shit out of me when people accuse us of being pro-displacement. That's nonsense. I definitely don't feel erased if I'm not on a list of "pro-displacement political forces." 

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Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 8:03:45 PM5/11/17
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Oh yeah. Daily is a great example of why anti-displacement activists don't consider themselves anti-housing. Daily made great, city improving deals. If he was Supervisor of the mission, there really might be 100% subsidized high rise housing in the mission instead of what we have now which is nothing. 


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Paul Anzel

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May 11, 2017, 8:07:43 PM5/11/17
to Diego Aguilar-Canabal, SK Trauss, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
I'm all for us being better, but what does that entail, exactly? Beyond making sure we do more outreach to local communities (which I think we talk about how to do often) I'm not sure what the major issues are.

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Diego Aguilar-Canabal

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May 11, 2017, 8:09:17 PM5/11/17
to Paul Anzel, sfbarentersfed, SK Trauss, andrew sullivan, Alfred, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
LOL, I do not claim to have the answers. Merely suggesting that some soul-searching is in order! :) 

Andrew Sullivan

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May 11, 2017, 8:10:17 PM5/11/17
to Sonja Trauss, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, andrew sullivan, Alfred, BRIAN WARWICK, Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed
This is the Supervisor's job, really.  Hillary Ronen has so far cast her lot with the anti-housing side. Maybe she can become a deal maker?

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Diego Aguilar-Canabal

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May 11, 2017, 8:14:26 PM5/11/17
to Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, SK Trauss, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
She's done it three times already if I'm keeping count. Her deals are not ambitious or game-changing though, she's just horse-trading for whatever Arguello demands. This is why I like Ben Bartlett more. He wants to make deals to build himself a legacy to run for higher office. 


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Robert R. Tillman

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May 11, 2017, 8:52:25 PM5/11/17
to Diego Aguilar-Canabal, andrew sullivan, sfbarentersfed, SK Trauss, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, BRIAN WARWICK, Justin Horner

Having met personally with various of the Mission Activists, I do not think that they have interest or could be helpful anywhere outside of the Mission.

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM
To: andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>
Cc: SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

Good points Andrew. I think some horse trading with Calle 24 folks is a good idea but I don't think they have any influence with SFTU/McElroy types as "brokers" or whatever. 


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Alfred

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May 11, 2017, 8:53:08 PM5/11/17
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Here are some places the YIMBY movement can do better:

1. Go beyond "Fix housing", have a larger vision for urban society. 
People need more than just a place to sleep.  Neighborhood and activist groups such as ACCE, in addition to housing, have a bigger picture that also looks at jobs, social services, and other ways to empower communities. 

Example ideas
- Have a plan for education so that presently low income residents can gain the skills to actually afford some of the new market rate housing. 

- Rather than fight over the hundred something acres of BART parking lots, why aren't we opening new BART lines every other year like other areas that have 9% annual economic growth?

2. Have a solution to prevent displacement of businesses.
Maybe it's street vending, corner stores, turning side streets into shopping arcades... something. 

3. Support rent control.
Not everyone can wait for prices to filter down.  Even if you don't think RC works, Scott makes a great point of "We need to be willing to listen and learn from people's experiences whether or not their grasp of the complexities of urban economics is 100% correct." 

4. Acknowledge race, and stop doing the "we know what's best for your neighborhood" thing
For a lot of communities, neighborhoods like the Mission or East Oakland are rare, one of a kind places that however imperfect, are the only place people like them have the opportunity to be in charge.  These areas are their main sources of political leaders, and have an importance to members of their communities beyond those that presently live there. 

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Scott Feeney

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May 11, 2017, 8:58:27 PM5/11/17
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On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 4:31:43 PM UTC-7, Mike Schiraldi wrote:
The lack of density around Glen Park BART is an abomination. Directly across the street from this station is the only BART parking lot in the city of San Francisco. Adjacent is a bunch of one, two, and three-story buildings. Catercorner is another parking lot. Across the other street is another group of one, two, and three-story buildings. I wrote about it here and posted a map here.

Yes, many neighborhoods have older non-conforming buildings. You can find the current zoning map here: http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/California/zoningmaps/dat/0-0-0-1416.pdf?f=templates$fn=document-frame.htm$3.0 There's a very small NCT section but the vast majority of the walkshed is RH-1 and RH-2.

But the difference is, Glen Park isn't seeing much gentrification, because as you say, there aren't many apartment buildings in the neighborhood (you're wrong to say there are none, though -- example, example, example), and thus, very little eviction going on. We should absolutely be fighting to upzone around all our transit hubs, Glen Park included. But if you want to fight displacement, you need to focus on the Mission.

This is a misconception. Research by the UCB Urban Displacement Project shows new housing in the Bay Area has a protective effect regionally, but not at the neighborhood level. It makes sense if you think about it: a lot of people primarily want to live in a walkable neighborhood near BART, so whether the station in question is Glen Park, 24th St Mission, or 12th St Oakland City Center, those are substitute goods to an extent.

Many YIMBYs have made the point that resistance to housing in the Mission accelerates Oakland gentrification. If you accept that point, you can see how more housing at one transit stop has a protective effect on tenants at another.

Diego Aguilar-Canabal

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May 11, 2017, 9:19:25 PM5/11/17
to Alfred, SK Trauss, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
We don't build BART lines to Livermore every year because we just passed a bond measure to fund decades of unaddressed maintenance issues. 

I support rent control and am co-authoring a letter to Asm. Richard Bloom to reintroduce his repeal bill. Worth noting that while small property owners blew up the phones in Sacramento to kill the bill, major advocates in favor of rent control seemed to do nothing. Tenants Together circulated a petition that I only saw a week after the bill was tabled. 

#4 is a strawman with the exception of a few idiots I have been quick to call out, so it's pretty condescending and off the mark to see it painted as a general, pervasive pattern. The whole point of local organizing is to get actual neighbors to say "we want this in our back yard." Go to a Berkeley city council meeting. That is what we do. 

Frankly you seem to describe your 4th point like (a) it happens every day, all the time, and (b) no one has thought about this before, all of which suggests to me that you haven't been paying attention much. I am open to being wrong since we share the same goals and of course have much room for improvement anyway. 

Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 9:21:05 PM5/11/17
to Alfred, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
These are good suggestions, inline.

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Alfred <ma...@firstcultural.com> wrote:
Here are some places the YIMBY movement can do better:

1. Go beyond "Fix housing", have a larger vision for urban society. 
People need more than just a place to sleep.  Neighborhood and activist groups such as ACCE, in addition to housing, have a bigger picture that also looks at jobs, social services, and other ways to empower communities. 

I'm not necessarily opposed to this but I am worried about mission creep. I also don't want to reinvent the wheel. It was never my notion that YIMBY would replace an org. like ACCE, but rather be in coalition with it. Think of YIMBY more like Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, the EFF or the NRA - all single issue political movements. Less like ACCE or the Democratic Party. 

 
Example ideas
- Have a plan for education so that presently low income residents can gain the skills to actually afford some of the new market rate housing. 

- Rather than fight over the hundred something acres of BART parking lots, why aren't we opening new BART lines every other year like other areas that have 9% annual economic growth?
 
2. Have a solution to prevent displacement of businesses.
Maybe it's street vending, corner stores, turning side streets into shopping arcades... something. 

I'm all for this. I have a plan all articulated. I wanted to come out with it at the beginning of the year but Laura said it was off topic. 
 
3. Support rent control.
Not everyone can wait for prices to filter down.  Even if you don't think RC works, Scott makes a great point of "We need to be willing to listen and learn from people's experiences whether or not their grasp of the complexities of urban economics is 100% correct." 

4. Acknowledge race, and stop doing the "we know what's best for your neighborhood" thing
For a lot of communities, neighborhoods like the Mission or East Oakland are rare, one of a kind places that however imperfect, are the only place people like them have the opportunity to be in charge.  These areas are their main sources of political leaders, and have an importance to members of their communities beyond those that presently live there. 

If you live in the neighborhood in question, I definitely think you should not let anyone tell you not to put your two cents in as a member of the public, or to organize other people who agree with you. That said, be nice and don't be dumb. 
This most memorable example to me of a time when a YIMBY adjacent person embarrassed himself was a white guy bicyclist who took a picture & tweeted complaining of people double parked in the bike lane on telegraph in front of the hair supply store. 
He made some comment like "what is wrong with these people, what dont they get about not parking in the bike lane." I was glad bicycling wasn't my issue because I would have had to write to him & tell him he was wrong (maybe I still should have). 'These are your neighbors, dickhead,' I thought. 'the hair store is like a CVS. You can't just go around the car while your neighbor runs into the store for 5 minutes to get who knows what?' It's a small thing but that's how social life is, the summation of a million small things. 

I also really have a problem with the formulation that low income people are "tricked" or misled into being against housing. I'm not telling anyone not to think that, but I think it would be a huge improvement if everyone could drop that phraseology. It's extremely patronizing. Just say you think your political opponent is wrong. 'Anti-displacement activists think that not building housing will cure displacement, but I think that is wrong. I don't think that's how displacement works.' It's that easy. 

Scott Feeney

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May 11, 2017, 9:22:04 PM5/11/17
to SFBA Renters Federation
On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 5:53:08 PM UTC-7, Alfred wrote:
Here are some places the YIMBY movement can do better:

1. Go beyond "Fix housing", have a larger vision for urban society. 
People need more than just a place to sleep.  Neighborhood and activist groups such as ACCE, in addition to housing, have a bigger picture that also looks at jobs, social services, and other ways to empower communities. 

Example ideas
- Have a plan for education so that presently low income residents can gain the skills to actually afford some of the new market rate housing. 

- Rather than fight over the hundred something acres of BART parking lots, why aren't we opening new BART lines every other year like other areas that have 9% annual economic growth?

I think it'd be great to partner with orgs that are already working on these issues.
 
2. Have a solution to prevent displacement of businesses.
Maybe it's street vending, corner stores, turning side streets into shopping arcades... something. 

Jane Jacobs' view was that the only full solution to a neighborhood becoming a victim of its own success, like what's happening in the Mission now, was "competitive diversion" - give a boring, unsuccessful neighborhood the ingredients to succeed, and compete for investment. Adding density to Glen Park could help accomplish this. One of my pet ideas is to add density, expand neighborhood commercial zoning, and allow limited office development (so there's street life on weekdays) along the Ocean Ave corridor west of Balboa Park. The area is solidly middle-class with a high percentage of homeowners, yet is dull, and has lots of soft sites and excellent transit.

3. Support rent control.
Not everyone can wait for prices to filter down.  Even if you don't think RC works, Scott makes a great point of "We need to be willing to listen and learn from people's experiences whether or not their grasp of the complexities of urban economics is 100% correct." 

Yes. SF YIMBYs should affirm this more. I would love to see us coalesce around support for an expansion of rent control that we think wouldn't harm supply (e.g. if it kicked in on a rolling basis 15 years after construction). East Bay Forward seems to be leading the way here.
 
4. Acknowledge race, and stop doing the "we know what's best for your neighborhood" thing
For a lot of communities, neighborhoods like the Mission or East Oakland are rare, one of a kind places that however imperfect, are the only place people like them have the opportunity to be in charge.  These areas are their main sources of political leaders, and have an importance to members of their communities beyond those that presently live there.

Yup. Regional needs matter, so I don't believe in giving any neighborhoods' leaders absolute say, whether they're rich or poor. But it is hard to defend making the regional argument for density next to transit stations when you are only seen saying that about transit stations that serve low-income communities of color. And there are ways to respect and acknowledge neighborhood leaders even if you don't end up agreeing on every issue.

Watson Ladd

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May 11, 2017, 9:23:40 PM5/11/17
to Alfred, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, SK Trauss, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Alfred <ma...@firstcultural.com> wrote:
> Here are some places the YIMBY movement can do better:
>
> 1. Go beyond "Fix housing", have a larger vision for urban society.
> People need more than just a place to sleep. Neighborhood and activist
> groups such as ACCE, in addition to housing, have a bigger picture that also
> looks at jobs, social services, and other ways to empower communities.
>
> Example ideas
> - Have a plan for education so that presently low income residents can gain
> the skills to actually afford some of the new market rate housing.
>
> - Rather than fight over the hundred something acres of BART parking lots,
> why aren't we opening new BART lines every other year like other areas that
> have 9% annual economic growth?

Yes, we can do this. Especially when it comes to the South Bay and
second transbay tunnel.

>
> 2. Have a solution to prevent displacement of businesses.
> Maybe it's street vending, corner stores, turning side streets into shopping
> arcades... something.
>
> 3. Support rent control.
> Not everyone can wait for prices to filter down. Even if you don't think RC
> works, Scott makes a great point of "We need to be willing to listen and
> learn from people's experiences whether or not their grasp of the
> complexities of urban economics is 100% correct."

Yeah, we'll go create another bunch of people whose interests are
served by blocking new development.

>
> 4. Acknowledge race, and stop doing the "we know what's best for your
> neighborhood" thing
> For a lot of communities, neighborhoods like the Mission or East Oakland are
> rare, one of a kind places that however imperfect, are the only place people
> like them have the opportunity to be in charge. These areas are their main
> sources of political leaders, and have an importance to members of their
> communities beyond those that presently live there.

It's every neighborhood that wants to make the same excuses to cut
housing. The more local land use decisions are made the worse it is.
One thing we could do is push for upzoning other neighborhoods so
these neighborhoods aren't where all development is. (Also, East
Oakland? I think I call that Piedmont).
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Diego Aguilar-Canabal

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May 11, 2017, 9:25:12 PM5/11/17
to Alfred, Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, SK Trauss, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
In case my last point wasn't clear: you should attend an East Bay Forward meeting. I guarantee you this topic comes up at least once every meeting. As quite possibly the only Latinx member, I can assure you racial inequality is something I am acutely aware of and motivated to solve. It has been a major tenet of EBF's messaging strategy and general approach to policy - understanding cultural context, being aware of deep intergenerational wounds, and not exacerbating them by jumping in like a white savior. 

Again, unless you know of specific instances where these groups have been insensitive recently, and subsequently the situation was not rectified, that is important for us to know. Otherwise, come to a meeting to ensure your advice is relevant. 

Robert is also, I fear, likely correct. I doubt Mission activists will be our allies. But they don't need to be enemies either, and making that happen is equally valuable. 

Robert R. Tillman

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May 11, 2017, 9:31:39 PM5/11/17
to Sonja Trauss, Alfred, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Dear Sonja,

 

I think that we should stay out of the business displacement issue. Retail businesses are having problems all around the country because of technological changes that have nothing to do with gentrification. The nature of businesses under stress is that they will adapt or go out of business and have their places taken by new businesses.

 

Mission creep is a huge danger for small organizations. As a many time company founder, I always say that a small company should only do what only it can do best. That maxim also applies to small non-profit advocacy group. Stick with housing.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:20 PM
To: Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>
Cc: Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

These are good suggestions, inline.

 

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Alfred <ma...@firstcultural.com> wrote:

Here are some places the YIMBY movement can do better:

1. Go beyond "Fix housing", have a larger vision for urban society. 

People need more than just a place to sleep.  Neighborhood and activist groups such as ACCE, in addition to housing, have a bigger picture that also looks at jobs, social services, and other ways to empower communities. 

I'm not necessarily opposed to this but I am worried about mission creep. I also don't want to reinvent the wheel. It was never my notion that YIMBY would replace an org. like ACCE, but rather be in coalition with it. Think of YIMBY more like Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, the EFF or the NRA - all single issue political movements. Less like ACCE or the Democratic Party. 

 

 

Example ideas

- Have a plan for education so that presently low income residents can gain the skills to actually afford some of the new market rate housing. 


- Rather than fight over the hundred something acres of BART parking lots, why aren't we opening new BART lines every other year like other areas that have 9% annual economic growth?

 

2. Have a solution to prevent displacement of businesses.

Maybe it's street vending, corner stores, turning side streets into shopping arcades.. something. 


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Scott Feeney

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May 11, 2017, 9:31:59 PM5/11/17
to SFBA Renters Federation
On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:25:12 PM UTC-7, Diego Aguilar-Canabal wrote:
In case my last point wasn't clear: you should attend an East Bay Forward meeting. I guarantee you this topic comes up at least once every meeting. As quite possibly the only Latinx member, I can assure you racial inequality is something I am acutely aware of and motivated to solve. It has been a major tenet of EBF's messaging strategy and general approach to policy - understanding cultural context, being aware of deep intergenerational wounds, and not exacerbating them by jumping in like a white savior. 

Again, unless you know of specific instances where these groups have been insensitive recently, and subsequently the situation was not rectified, that is important for us to know. Otherwise, come to a meeting to ensure your advice is relevant. 

Robert is also, I fear, likely correct. I doubt Mission activists will be our allies. But they don't need to be enemies either, and making that happen is equally valuable. 

From what I see, I get the sense East Bay Forward has a more thoughtful, respectful and intersectional approach compared to the YIMBYs in San Francisco. My experience as a YIMBY testifying in favor of Mission projects: no one discusses messaging strategy, no one talks about cultural context or intergenerational wounds, people just wing it and absolutely sound like know-it-all white saviors. I include myself in the set of people who need to do better.

Alex Sharenko

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May 11, 2017, 9:40:49 PM5/11/17
to Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Alfred, Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, SK Trauss, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
I'm honestly shocked by the diversity of opinions here, especially that there is any overlap between YIMBYs and supporters of rent control, but I'm happy to learn and be exposed to different perspectives! That being said I want to focus on point 1 about having a broader vision for urban society. I have thought a lot about this lately and think that it is crucial to communicate our vision. Why is more housing better beyond cheaper rent? For me personally I want a denser Berkeley BECAUSE I want to live in a diverse, vibrant, productive, dynamic version of Berkeley and the way to get there is to increase density. Cities are the most diverse places on earth with people from different socioeconomic groups, cultures, ethnicities, sexualities, creeds, etc. interacting in close proximity on a daily basis and sharing those parts of themselves with each other. It's a beautiful thing! The more suburban a place is, the greater % of space dominated by single family homes, the less likely that interaction and sharing is to happen. Moving forward that's the vision I think we need to sell as the ethos of our YIMBYism. 

Also, can't help myself but parking in the bike lane is really annoying and dangerous to bike riders, but maybe don't tweet about it?

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Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 9:43:11 PM5/11/17
to Robert R. Tillman, Alfred, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
You haven't heard my retail displacement mitigation plan yet. You'll love it or else hate it more than you can imagine now lol.

The plan has a few parts. 

1. Neighborhood businesses that do not own the building they are housed in and are interested in leases in anticipated new buildings in the area sign up with OEWD (the Mayor's Office of Economic & Workforce Development). They indicate how much square footage they currently have and how much they pay. 

2. All new buildings have to build retail on the first floor, but as we all have noticed, that retail sits empty for a long time. Any new building where the first floor retail is unleased after 6 months automatically has to sign a 15 year lease with OEWD for some rent determined by OEWD or the Sup.s or something. 

3. OEWD distributes the retail by lottery to the businesses that signed up within a ??? 1/4 mile, 1/5 mile ??? of the new project. 





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Robert R. Tillman

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May 11, 2017, 9:47:03 PM5/11/17
to Sonja Trauss, Alfred, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Dear Sonja,

 

“The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.” Ronald Reagan

 

As a business owner in the Mission, I just want to be left alone.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bob

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:42 PM
To: "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>
Cc: Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

You haven't heard my retail displacement mitigation plan yet. You'll love it or else hate it more than you can imagine now lol.


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Diego Aguilar-Canabal

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May 11, 2017, 9:51:12 PM5/11/17
to Robert R. Tillman, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, Sonja Trauss, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
I always laugh at that quote because he was literally the head of the federal government and helped overthrow foreign governments to prop up friendly dictators, but that's neither here nor there... 

Bob, I am curious about your perspective here. If you own a retail space and leave it vacant for 6 months, should the city have an obligation to "leave you alone"? Why or why not? What is the benefit to vacant retail space and what better mechanism would you suggest to amend it than a regulatory taking? 

BTW I would speculate that the mere threat of such a deal would motivate commercial landlords to drop their rents to fill up ground-floor retail. From my perspective, this is a desirable outcome. What am I missing? 

On May 11, 2017 6:47 PM, "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net> wrote:

Dear Sonja,

 

“The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.” Ronald Reagan


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Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 9:52:37 PM5/11/17
to Robert R. Tillman, Alfred, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Andrew Sullivan, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, BRIAN WARWICK, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
Under this program you would be, because you own your business. Now ... if you don't lease the retail space in your new building on the other hand ..... OEWD will show up with an offer you can't refuse. But I'm sure you could proactively go find some tenants on 24th Street who would be interested in agreeing to move into your new space as soon as it was done, at a rate competitive with OEWD. 

The city, and so-called anti-commercial displacement activists have been so  lazy on the commercial displacement problem. There is No reason why signed leases with area businesses can't be a condition of approval for a proposed building. 

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Robert R. Tillman <rr...@pacbell.net> wrote:

Dear Sonja,

 

“The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.” Ronald Reagan


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Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 9:53:18 PM5/11/17
to Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Robert R. Tillman, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
NOTHING, You're missing Nothing, this is the best plan. 

Alex Sharenko

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May 11, 2017, 9:58:11 PM5/11/17
to Sonja Trauss, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Robert R. Tillman, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
"There is No reason why signed leases with area businesses can't be a condition of approval for a proposed building."

That's just another obstacle to getting approval for a building which is the opposite of what we should be encouraging.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/east-bay-forward/CAEMAOD6S1EHwpS25A2Z19V4mWPk4iOC7%2B6nrVJYDe9sbKKe4hw%40mail.gmail.com.

Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 10:10:45 PM5/11/17
to Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Robert R. Tillman, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
Whether it is or isn't something we should be promoting, the observation I'm making is that if there was a neighborhood group that was sincerely concerned about commercial displacement, sayyyyy like Calle 24 claims to be, and also not fundamentally anti-building, then that is the type of solution they would have Long Ago proposed and enacted. 

One of the ways you can tell that Calle 24's anti-commercial displacement plank is subordinate to their larger goal of being generally anti-growth is that they don't advocate for policies that would mitigate commercial displacement and not interfere with building, instead they just oppose building. 

Robert R. Tillman

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May 11, 2017, 10:18:39 PM5/11/17
to Alex Sharenko, Sonja Trauss, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Alex,

 

Exactly right.

 

Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: Alex Sharenko <alexsh...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:57 PM
To: Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>
Cc: Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

"There is No reason why signed leases with area businesses can't be a condition of approval for a proposed building."


>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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Robert R. Tillman

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May 11, 2017, 10:28:19 PM5/11/17
to Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Dear Sonja,

 

There are lots of commercial on the 25th block of Mission that have been vacant for a decade or more. See attached.

 

They are shit spaces, but they are available. Frankly, if I build my project and end up owning it, I would drop my pants if necessary on the commercial rents to get long term tenants. I AM the landlord of a 65,000 SF multi-tenant distribution warehouse in Albuquerque, NM. I have 28% of the building vacant, mainly owing to a tenant buying his own building and moving out. I renewed all my other tenants, and am now prepared to undercut the market.

 

Frankly, I do not see any significant instances of NEW retail space in SF going vacant. It is mainly the old spaces that have problems.

 

Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 7:10 PM
To: Alex Sharenko <alexsh...@gmail.com>
Cc: Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

Whether it is or isn't something we should be promoting, the observation I'm making is that if there was a neighborhood group that was sincerely concerned about commercial displacement, sayyyyy like Calle 24 claims to be, and also not fundamentally anti-building, then that is the type of solution they would have Long Ago proposed and enacted. 


>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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Screen Shot 2017-05-11 at 7.21.58 PM.png
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Alex Sharenko

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May 11, 2017, 10:38:37 PM5/11/17
to Robert R. Tillman, Sonja Trauss, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
I live in Berkeley and don't spend much time in SF, so I can only really speak for Berkeley in this context, but a lot of ground floor retail in Berkeley (old and new) does sit vacant for long periods of time. I don't really understand this except that Berkeley just doesn't have the critical density to create the foot traffic that these types of businesses need? That's just a hypothesis and I have no data so I might be completely wrong.  

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Robert R. Tillman <rr...@pacbell.net> wrote:

Dear Sonja,

 

There are lots of commercial on the 25th block of Mission that have been vacant for a decade or more. See attached.


>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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Sonja Trauss

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May 11, 2017, 11:05:38 PM5/11/17
to Alex Sharenko, Robert R. Tillman, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
For new buildings it happens because the developers aren't motivated to fill it. They just don't really care very much. Their projects don't need the rent from the retail space, and their property manager is just interested in filling the apartments or condos. I have no idea what the problem is in old buildings. 

The empty retail that I pass by every day is on the first floor of NEMA. Also there is some in the twitter building. 

Chris Garrett

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May 11, 2017, 11:48:10 PM5/11/17
to Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Robert R. Tillman, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
Part of the problem is the norms around commercial leases--ten years is the most common term. If you are going to be locked in that long, makes more sense to hold out for someone who can pay the rent you want.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/east-bay-forward/CAEMAOD5WLf3HHHwWryiQR98SMWwsdMrg450%3D0eyBwztKnccH0w%40mail.gmail.com.

Andrew Sullivan

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May 12, 2017, 12:36:52 AM5/12/17
to Chris Garrett, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Robert R. Tillman, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
This is a huge problem in the haight. Multiple spaces posted at $5K per month. Too damn high!

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Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 1:05:55 AM5/12/17
to Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Dear Sonja,

 

So show me the empty retail space in new buildings. Personally, I am motivated to maximize my total rental income.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 8:05 PM
To: Alex Sharenko <alexsh...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>, Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

For new buildings it happens because the developers aren't motivated to fill it. They just don't really care very much. Their projects don't need the rent from the retail space, and their property manager is just interested in filling the apartments or condos. I have no idea what the problem is in old buildings. 


>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/SFBArentersfed/CABwcK_3xaWvVKLupJViVcGh6i-ZoaJu6zUrMCEj4WgVtfG0pyA%40mail.gmail.com.
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Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 1:09:08 AM5/12/17
to Chris Garrett, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Dear Chris,

 

Actually not. I am a restructuring and turnaround professional, and have negotiated the termination of $190 million of commercial leases over the past decade. See my attached record. Most commercial leases are 5 years or less. Sometimes they have tenant lease options to go longer. None of my commercial leases in Albuquerque have ever been longer than 5 years.

 

Sincerely,


Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: Chris Garrett <cjg...@gmail.com>


Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 8:48 PM
To: Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>

Cc: Alex Sharenko <alexsh...@gmail.com>, "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>, Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

Part of the problem is the norms around commercial leases--ten years is the most common term. If you are going to be locked in that long, makes more sense to hold out for someone who can pay the rent you want.

 


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Tillman, Robert Selected Restructuring Deals.doc
Tillman, Robert Selected Restructuring Deals.doc

Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 1:10:52 AM5/12/17
to Andrew Sullivan, Chris Garrett, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Dear Andrew,

 

The market takes care of the problem, one way or the other. One of my major frustrations is that many of you think that central planning can best substitute for the market.

 

Sincerely,


Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 9:36 PM
To: Chris Garrett <cjg...@gmail.com>
Cc: Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>, Alex Sharenko <alexsh...@gmail.com>, "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>, Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

This is a huge problem in the haight. Multiple spaces posted at $5K per month. Too damn high!

Sent from my iPhone


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Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 1:15:46 AM5/12/17
to Andrew Sullivan, Chris Garrett, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Sonja Trauss

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May 12, 2017, 1:38:44 AM5/12/17
to Andrew Sullivan, Chris Garrett, Robert R. Tillman, Alex Sharenko, Alfred, BRIAN WARWICK, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, Justin Horner, Mike Schiraldi, andrew sullivan, east-bay-forward, sfbarentersfed
The 1st floor of NEMA is totally empty. 


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Chris Garrett

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May 12, 2017, 1:41:27 AM5/12/17
to Robert R. Tillman, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
Huh, TIL. I've always heard ten years bandied about as common.


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Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 1:43:19 AM5/12/17
to Chris Garrett, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Not in my experience.

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chris Garrett <cjg...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:41 PM
To: "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>
Cc: Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>, Alex Sharenko <alexsh...@gmail.com>, Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbaren...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, east-bay-forward <east-bay...@googlegroups.com>, Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [east-bay-forward] Re: [sfbarentersfed] Making peace with the Mission (and other low income neighborhoods)?

 

Huh, TIL. I've always heard ten years bandied about as common.

 


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Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 1:44:12 AM5/12/17
to Chris Garrett, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Most tech firms would never be locked into 10 years. They simply have no idea how fast or slow their businesses will evolve.

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>


Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:43 PM
To: Chris Garrett <cjg...@gmail.com>

Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 1:46:23 AM5/12/17
to Chris Garrett, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner

Dear Chris,

 

I used to be the largest operator of coin laundries in the Bay Area, with 10 stores. I always kept my leases at 5 years, but negotiated 3 to 4 five year options. Anyone who locks themselves into 10 years deserves to be taken to the cleaners.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

Chris Garrett

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May 12, 2017, 1:53:09 AM5/12/17
to Robert R. Tillman, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, Andrew Sullivan, andrew sullivan, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
Yeah, I believe you. Thanks for the insight.

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Robert R. Tillman <rr...@pacbell.net> wrote:

Dear Chris,

 

I used to be the largest operator of coin laundries in the Bay Area, with 10 stores. I always kept my leases at 5 years, but negotiated 3 to 4 five year options. Anyone who locks themselves into 10 years deserves to be taken to the cleaners.


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Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 1:57:04 AM5/12/17
to Scott Feeney, SFBARF Google Group

Dear Scott,

 

There is always a trade-off between going for a higher rent and having one’s space vacant. Personally, I prefer to be 100% leased with quality tenants and will drop my rent to get there. Others may have a different view, and that is their right.

 

As a small business owner, I do not want SFBARF’s help with commercial rents. I simply want SFBARF to focus on building more housing.

 

I came to own my current property when my landlord tried to force me out. I fought with my landlord legally and ended up buying the property in 2005 as a settlement. I had leased the space since 1998. We small business owners are grownups, and can take care of ourselves. With all due respect, we do not need your help. No one in the Mission, particularly Calle 24, has ever done anything to help my business, and I like it that way.

 

Please focus on housing.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: Scott <sc...@oceanbase.org> on behalf of Scott Feeney <sc...@scott.mn>


Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:46 PM
To: "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>

Subject: Retail spaces

 

Tell that to the Castro: http://hoodline.com/2017/03/castro-retail-vacancy-rising

Also, walk down Valencia Street in the Mission to observe high vacancy rates even as longtime businesses complain of rent hikes. On two blocks near my home, the west side of the street from 20th to 22nd, I counted 18% of storefronts empty. Something ain't working.

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Robert R. Tillman

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May 12, 2017, 2:14:12 AM5/12/17
to Scott Feeney, SFBARF Google Group

Dear Scott,

 

Another thought. Most things in life are not controllable. Or as a good friend of mine once observed, “Life happens while you are making plans.”

 

If you try to control everything, you end up controlling nothing. Focus on one thing and you MIGHT succeed. The Mission of SFBARF is to build more housing. If the organization with its minimal resources becomes distracted from that core mission, then it will likely accomplish nothing.

 

In my experience, most organizations are not destroyed or defeated by external forces. They typically self-destruct when they forget their core mission and lose their way.

andrew sullivan

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May 12, 2017, 12:29:24 PM5/12/17
to Robert R. Tillman, Chris Garrett, Sonja Trauss, Alex Sharenko, Diego Aguilar-Canabal, sfbarentersfed, BRIAN WARWICK, east-bay-forward, Alfred, Mike Schiraldi, Justin Horner
I see what you did there Robert :)

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Robert R. Tillman <rr...@pacbell.net> wrote:

Dear Chris,

 

I used to be the largest operator of coin laundries in the Bay Area, with 10 stores. I always kept my leases at 5 years, but negotiated 3 to 4 five year options. Anyone who locks themselves into 10 years deserves to be taken to the cleaners.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bob

 

 

Robert R. Tillman

RRT Partners LLC

14 Sunshine Ave.

Sausalito, CA 94965

415-332-9242 Telephone

 

 

 

From: "Robert R. Tillman" <rr...@pacbell.net>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:44 PM


To: Chris Garrett <cjg...@gmail.com>
Cc: Sonja Trauss <sonja....@gmail.com>, Alex Sharenko <alexsh...@gmail.com>, Diego Aguilar-Canabal <d.aguila...@gmail.com>, SFBARF Google Group <sfbarentersfed@googlegroups.com>, Andrew Sullivan <suldr...@gmail.com>, andrew sullivan <and...@sulli.org>, BRIAN WARWICK <brianw...@g.ucla.edu>, east-bay-forward <east-bay-forward@googlegroups.com>, Alfred Twu <ma...@firstcultural.com>, Mike Schiraldi <mi...@schiraldi.org>, Justin Horner <justinh...@gmail.com>


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