OT: We're number two, apparently

[Andrew Stadler]

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/news/the-50-best-bike-cities-of-2016/slide/2

[Darrin Ward]

to be honest i don't know how we could be above portland.  sure some stuff is beginning to get done in sf after years of lawsuits and deaths.  but a lot of stuff is sort of just half assed like the bike lane in golden gate park (in seattle they actually put a barrier up so people dont just park in the bike lane something they could easily do in sf) or the bike lanes in the embarcadero which are super thin.  also there is no real enforcement.  people park in the bike lanes for whatever reason they want.  when i ride in portland it makes me happy.  like the new tilikum crossing (a bridge with no cars) or the springwater corridor (one of the more beautiful bike trails i have been on).  when i ride in san francisco i am often stressed out.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Andrew Stadler <sta...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/news/the-50-best-bike-cities-of-2016/slide/2

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[Max Nachury]

I agree that the cars parked in the bike lane makes for stressful riding in SF. Especially when riding with my 7yo kid. A bit of enforcement by SFPD would greatly increase the value of the city's investment in bike lanes. 

OTOH I have no idea how bad the problem is in other major US cities. 

Autocorrected courtesy of iOS

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[Ken MacInnis]

Other cities may have worse infrastructure, and a far way to go, but the frustrating part of SF (to me) is how little it would take to make things much better. And yet, we obstinately refuse to.

I've been working in Oakland here and there and it's wonderful. The new lanes on Telegraph are great. The people are generally tolerant. Needs BABS.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 09:22 Max Nachury <nac...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree that the cars parked in the bike lane makes for stressful riding in SF. Especially when riding with my 7yo kid. A bit of enforcement by SFPD would greatly increase the value of the city's investment in bike lanes. 

OTOH I have no idea how bad the problem is in other major US cities. 

Autocorrected courtesy of iOS

On Sep 20, 2016, at 08:59, Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com> wrote:

to be honest i don't know how we could be above portland.  sure some stuff is beginning to get done in sf after years of lawsuits and deaths.  but a lot of stuff is sort of just half assed like the bike lane in golden gate park (in seattle they actually put a barrier up so people dont just park in the bike lane something they could easily do in sf) or the bike lanes in the embarcadero which are super thin.  also there is no real enforcement.  people park in the bike lanes for whatever reason they want.  when i ride in portland it makes me happy.  like the new tilikum crossing (a bridge with no cars) or the springwater corridor (one of the more beautiful bike trails i have been on).  when i ride in san francisco i am often stressed out.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Andrew Stadler <sta...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/news/the-50-best-bike-cities-of-2016/slide/2

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[John Murphy]

And yet, we obstinately refuse to.

Who the hell is "we".

"We" is a handful of losers in City Hall starting with the Mayor. I don't at all point the finger at Ed Reiskin or the SFMTA board, I fully believe he is getting hamstrung by Lee.

When Mayor Lee was running for election the first time, SF2G did a series of ride alongs with Mayoral Candidates Herrerra, Chiu, and Avalos. Might be time to invite some Board of Supervisors Candidates to come to Philz or Ritual and give their spiel.  It would seem that there are a lot of District 9 voters on this list.  It would be a hoot to get London Breed out there, and she is the Board President after all. Andy Thornley might do it even though the ROI might be low since I don't suspect there is a ton of District 1 representation on this list.

J

[Yuanyu Chen]

that's not really an apples to apples comparison, is it? I think if you moved to portland and started bike commuting to downtown, you'd probably also be stressed out. my recollection (from a year ago, so may be outdated) is that the ~1mi radius around downtown is full of cars and not covered in super amazing bike lanes, which seems like it'd induce similar amounts of stress.

seattle is in a similar boat - miles and miles of protected trails, but the urban core is still stressful to bike in. last summer I lived in seattle (u-district) and commuted to redmond, and my bike commute (22mi) had 0.5mi of road (which was also a dead end road so there was basically no traffic) - super chill. but, biking to anywhere (urban) not on a trail was still the same amounts of stressful interaction with cars, and made worse by the fact that seattle drivers are pissed because you both got the protected bike path you asked for AND want to ride on the road too (?!?!?!?!).

I also found it funny that the "vehicular cyclist" crowd in the greater seattle area hates on Cascade because they only push for projects to support the 8-80 crowd, and points to SFBC as a shining example of how a bike coalition should Get Shit Done in a city.

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/news/the-50-best-bike-cities-of-2016/slide/2

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[Ken MacInnis]

I am all for a younger generation of voters making the leadership sea change (SFPD, MTA, city hall) that is possible. But apathy will reign in that bloc until affordable housing gives them roots to care about.

It feels too much like a chicken and egg, since it's the same corrupt leadership that keeps the city by and for the current land owners.

[djconnel]

One thing about Bicycling's rankings is they're data-driven, which means the results are an artifact of the statistics used, including non obvious things like "% of female commuters", or whether infrastructure is measured per-capita or per-area, etc.

Almost certainly the GGB mess, for example, counts in SF's favor: there's no quality metric on infrastructure.

[djconnel]

Whoops -- I meant GGP mess.   Sorry.

[Peter Colijn]

It's ok, they're both a mess :)

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[Darrin Ward]

it is true the downtown of portland is filled with cars and not protected bike lanes (just regular bike lanes) but every time i have ridden downtown portland during a week day i just don't feel as stressed out.  people just aren't as aggressive drivers in portland i guess and respect bike lanes more.  but that is all anecdotal without statistics. 

the examples i gave of the springwater corridor is a well thought out bike project well outside the urban core of portland i will admit.  we don't really have any of that outside of the urban core.  golden gate park? nope.  sloat ave? nope?  yet we could do something.  but we haven't.

even the l muni line (a non bike project) is kind of a cluster fuck.  instead of protecting transit riders with proper boarding islands, the sfmta gave into businesses and stubborn residents with just painted lines and signs.  i mean for fuck sake sfmta will consider it successful if only 10% of drivers dont yield to the passengers getting off the muni train.

and if you want an apples to apples comparison, just look at the difference in mayors.  when the sfmta wanted to properly fix polk street for bicyclists mayor shit head ed lee got in the way.   i have never heard hales or adams getting in the way of a bike project in portland.  but maybe i dont read enough portland news.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Yuanyu Chen <yuany...@gmail.com> wrote:

that's not really an apples to apples comparison, is it? I think if you moved to portland and started bike commuting to downtown, you'd probably also be stressed out. my recollection (from a year ago, so may be outdated) is that the ~1mi radius around downtown is full of cars and not covered in super amazing bike lanes, which seems like it'd induce similar amounts of stress.

seattle is in a similar boat - miles and miles of protected trails, but the urban core is still stressful to bike in. last summer I lived in seattle (u-district) and commuted to redmond, and my bike commute (22mi) had 0.5mi of road (which was also a dead end road so there was basically no traffic) - super chill. but, biking to anywhere (urban) not on a trail was still the same amounts of stressful interaction with cars, and made worse by the fact that seattle drivers are pissed because you both got the protected bike path you asked for AND want to ride on the road too (?!?!?!?!).

I also found it funny that the "vehicular cyclist" crowd in the greater seattle area hates on Cascade because they only push for projects to support the 8-80 crowd, and points to SFBC as a shining example of how a bike coalition should Get Shit Done in a city.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 8:59 AM Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com> wrote:

to be honest i don't know how we could be above portland.  sure some stuff is beginning to get done in sf after years of lawsuits and deaths.  but a lot of stuff is sort of just half assed like the bike lane in golden gate park (in seattle they actually put a barrier up so people dont just park in the bike lane something they could easily do in sf) or the bike lanes in the embarcadero which are super thin.  also there is no real enforcement.  people park in the bike lanes for whatever reason they want.  when i ride in portland it makes me happy.  like the new tilikum crossing (a bridge with no cars) or the springwater corridor (one of the more beautiful bike trails i have been on).  when i ride in san francisco i am often stressed out.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Andrew Stadler <sta...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/news/the-50-best-bike-cities-of-2016/slide/2

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[Jason Thorpe]

On Sep 20, 2016, at 11:27 AM, Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com> wrote:

i have never heard hales or adams getting in the way of a bike project in portland.

Everyone’s just do effing sad because of how crappy the weather is.

-- thorpej

   (recovering Oregonian)

[Ken MacInnis]

If you took away free parking for handicapped placards and the merchants who abuse them to park in front of their stores all day, we probably wouldn't have seen Polk or Irving go that route.

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[Matthew Hiller]

Anecdotally, people parking in the bike lane in NYC is generally worse than in SF. Recent reports on the Valencia corridor are wack, though.

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 12:22:56 PM UTC-4, Max Nachury wrote:

I agree that the cars parked in the bike lane makes for stressful riding in SF. Especially when riding with my 7yo kid. A bit of enforcement by SFPD would greatly increase the value of the city's investment in bike lanes. 

OTOH I have no idea how bad the problem is in other major US cities. 

Autocorrected courtesy of iOS

On Sep 20, 2016, at 08:59, Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com> wrote:

to be honest i don't know how we could be above portland.  sure some stuff is beginning to get done in sf after years of lawsuits and deaths.  but a lot of stuff is sort of just half assed like the bike lane in golden gate park (in seattle they actually put a barrier up so people dont just park in the bike lane something they could easily do in sf) or the bike lanes in the embarcadero which are super thin.  also there is no real enforcement.  people park in the bike lanes for whatever reason they want.  when i ride in portland it makes me happy.  like the new tilikum crossing (a bridge with no cars) or the springwater corridor (one of the more beautiful bike trails i have been on).  when i ride in san francisco i am often stressed out.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Andrew Stadler <sta...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/news/the-50-best-bike-cities-of-2016/slide/2

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