OT: Tubeless for the road?

[Justin!]

Like some of you guys, on my road bike I use a tire that is puncture resistant at the expense of weight and rolling resistance because I don't like flats (especially while commuting to work).  It's the Schwalbe Durano DD and I've overall been quite happy (knock on wood).

In reading this test (http://www.velonews.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road-what-makes-cycling-tires-fast), I found my trusty Duranos at the very bottom of the list in terms of power required.

I now have road wheels that are "tubeless ready" (I need to buy tape, valve stem, sealant, etc.) and it seems like perhaps going tubeless might be the best of both worlds if I could run fast tires, reasonably low pressure, and still have low risk of flats (tubeless means no pinches and the sealant is supposed to work well to prevent puncture flats).  Downsides would appear to be initial setup time and cost, the fact that "fast" tires cost more and wear out faster, and the additional hassle if I do get a flat on the road. 

Any thoughts? Seems like this would be awesome if I'm willing to pay the extra costs. Any other downsides?

[Peter Colijn]

The main downside as I see it is when you get a puncture that's too big for the sealant to work. Then you have to put a tube in, and it's usually a lot harder on to do so on a tubeless setup because the tire sits so snugly on the rim. Plus it's messy because there's all the sealant inside.

That said, the new Mavic system that Zak bought is supposed to be easier from at least the tire-fitting-on-rim perspective. Also do consider the weight of the sealant in your calculations, it's not nothing :)

--
-- follow: http://twitter.com/sf2g | terms: http://sf2g.com/terms.html | bike prep: http://sf2g.com/bike-prep.html | unsub: http://groups.google.com/group/sf2g
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SF2G" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sf2g+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Justin!]

This is the tire that looks good to me:  Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless

According to one review:

Ten using tire sealant in a true tubeless tire, you end up with a tire that will be virtually impossible to flat. Holes of up to 2-3 mm will be sealed instantly. Snakebites and heat related (braking) blowouts will also be a thing of the past because the sensitive inner tubes are eliminated.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/schwalbe-pro-one-tubeless-2016

[Peter Colijn]

I dunno, I've been on several rides where people with tubeless setups got a puncture that the sealant couldn't seal. Maybe they just didn't have enough sealant in there or something. It's probably easy to forget to top it up if you have a puncture that seals, but you lose some sealant in the process.

--

[Peter Colijn]

All of that said, if you decide to try it I'd love to hear about your experience. As you can probably infer from my responses, I'm a bit of a skeptic (for road, at least -- I think tubeless is great for mtb).

[Zak Jarvis]

The new Mavic system is indeed very easy to set up. Maybe even a little easier than the regular tires I'd been using (Michelin Power Endurance and the various names that basic tire has had in the past). The tires go on and come off very easily, and the wheels shipped ready to go -- I just needed to put sealant in and pump them up, and they'd seat properly with a regular track pump.

The downside to the Mavic system is it's Mavic wheels and Mavic tires. I haven't ridden on the tires long enough to know how well they'll wear, so that's still a great big question mark. I *can* comment on how well they work in terms of that whole 'not flatting' thing, however. I get the impression Mavic hubs are a decidedly mixed bag too, but again I've only got a couple hundred miles on these can't say much about that except I've heard a lot of horror stories.

I got... Uh. 'lucky' and got three or four punctures over the course of 4-5 rides. I honestly wasn't trying to do this!

But all of them sealed with no intervention or need to stop riding.

The very last one I got didn't seal well, but that was because I neglected to put more sealant in after the first couple. I was still able to keep riding, and just needed to pump up the tire after I'd stopped for a couple hours.

The contrast is the Schwalbe G-One tires on my gravel bike. All they've ever done is made a festive latex pinwheel when I've gotten punctures. I'm pretty sure it was because I was using Bontrager sealant, which just doesn't seem to be very good. I've switched to a different one (it's orange?), but not gotten any punctures to 'test' it.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sf2g+uns...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
-- follow: http://twitter.com/sf2g | terms: http://sf2g.com/terms.html | bike prep: http://sf2g.com/bike-prep.html | unsub: http://groups.google.com/group/sf2g
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SF2G" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sf2g+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[Mert Dikmen]

> Ten using tire sealant in a true tubeless tire, you end up with a tire that will be virtually impossible to flat.

I run tubeless. That statement is wrong. I fully flatted twice in the last 8 months (one of which right after topping up the sealant). At road bike pressure, the sealant won't seal everything, especially sidewall cuts. I carry a pack of these bacon strips: https://www.genuineinnovations.com/au/products/tools-accessories/tubeless-repair-kit.php. They saved me once and didn't save me once. 

If you lost all the sealant, the conventional advice is to "just put a tube in" and continue riding.  However taking out a tubeless tire is much harder than a regular tire in my experience.

You probably win about 5-10 watts in rolling resistance over similar quality tube tires but at the higher chance of having to call an Uber.

--

-- follow: http://twitter.com/sf2g | terms: http://sf2g.com/terms.html | bike prep: http://sf2g.com/bike-prep.html | unsub: http://groups.google.com/group/sf2g
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SF2G" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sf2g+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Kitto]

Orange seal is the shit.

how can it not be? its full of glitter!

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sf2g+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

-- follow: http://twitter.com/sf2g | terms: http://sf2g.com/terms.html | bike prep: http://sf2g.com/bike-prep.html | unsub: http://groups.google.com/group/sf2g
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SF2G" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sf2g+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Ryan]

+1 for the data trove that is bicyclerollingresistance.com  The extensive database lets you to filter based on rolling resistance, price, weight, puncture resistance, etc.  Note, they run their test at 18 mph (29 kph) vs. the 40 kph in the velonews article you linked.

For a belt & suspenders approach, you can put sealant in a tube setup to help seal small punctures without committing to tubeless.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos/cycling-tech/how-to-puncture-proof-your-tyres

Pros:

-Relatively inexpensive puncture resistance for clinchers

-Lighter and less expensive than dedicated flat resistant tubes

-Seals small punctures that would flat a typical tube

Cons:

-Added weight (20-30g/wheel)

-Adding sealant can be messy

-A large cut or sidewall blowout will get sealant EVERYWHERE

I personally don't run this setup, opting for a slightly more puncture resistant tire (Grand Prix 4 Season) at the expense of a few watts of rolling resistance.

[Mike Wood]

I've been road tubeless for four years. At the beginning there was Hutch tires only. Then Schwalbe Ultremo -> One -> Pro One. I've had Bonty R3s (yikes!), Spech Roubaix Pro & S-works Turbo and currently IRC RBCCs. Sealants I've tried: Stans, Orange and currently Stans Race. Looking forward to the non-latex stuff soon.

I run 25mm tires but my '13 EVO chainstays and wide HED Belgium+ rim only allow a 23c on the rear(which measures 25 on the rim). Pressures @ 72f / 100r (I'm #175). Punctures that did not seal? A few - and all in the back. that extra pressure really does make it hard. I've held my thumb over geyser holes a few times (in 20,000 miles). Sometimes they've held. Sometimes not. Either way they've dropped to 50psi and if you try to inflate back to 100psi they'll let go. (Read: not had a front puncture for 20,000mi except riding into a square rock.)

Sticking with tubeless? Yup.This setup has gotten me over much gravel, bad roads and even some of the Grasshoppers when I did not have a 'cross bike. The tires feel great too. 

A quick word on Schwalbe Pro Ones. I've had two 25c up front - good tire - good grip - 2500mi life. Rear (23c) got only 200 and 700 miles before abandoning them from many small punctures or tears. They are lightweight and have weaker sidewalls for some places I ride (at 100psi). I preferred the old "One" tire.

[Zak Jarvis]

Mike,

Yeah, I think I got about 700 miles out of rear G-Ones too, though not from punctures, but tread wear.

--

-- follow: http://twitter.com/sf2g | terms: http://sf2g.com/terms.html | bike prep: http://sf2g.com/bike-prep.html | unsub: http://groups.google.com/group/sf2g
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SF2G" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sf2g+uns...@googlegroups.com.