ot: free wahoo mounts

[Peter Chang]

one stem + one 'out front'

i dremlled the garmin quarter turns that i've already got.

[Zak Jarvis]

I was able to fit my Wahoo into a 3rd party Garmin mount without any dremeling!

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:00 PM 'Peter Chang' via SF2G <sf...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

one stem + one 'out front'

i dremlled the garmin quarter turns that i've already got.

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[Peter Colijn]

Wait, did you get a wahoo thingee? Do you like it? I've been curious about them, but didn't know how much they depend on your phone in order to work (a GPS thing that only works if my phone is alive is not appealing to me).

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 9:59 PM, 'Peter Chang' via SF2G <sf...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

one stem + one 'out front'

i dremlled the garmin quarter turns that i've already got.

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[Peter Chang]

2017-04-07 10:33 GMT-07:00 Zak Jarvis <voidm...@gmail.com>:
> I was able to fit my Wahoo into a 3rd party Garmin mount without any
> dremeling!

yeah, it's close but inconsistent swapping between mounts (two bikes).
a touch w/ the dremel (or a file really) was all it took to make it
feel like the garmin quarter turn.

otoh, the wahoo mounts are hard to turn. maybe feels more secure but i
think that's what the turn is for?

\p

[Zak Jarvis]

I've been riding with an Elmnt* since shortly after they came out. It will work independently of the phone, though it needs one around to download routes from, if you set them up in RideWithGPS first.

I like it a fair bit more than the Garmin. It's got lights across the top and down the side that you can configure for speed, HR, or power, which means you can use more of the screen for other stuff if you want. Turn-by-turn isn't bad, but it needs a phone for "get me from here to that other place" routing. Battery life is good, and I find it way, way more reliable than the Garmin for things like "upload my ride as soon as I'm done". Live tracking is currently a little useless, since it just shows where you are without breadcrumbs, but they plan to fix that... and in theory, it will show you realtime where your Wahoo having friends are, but to date I have none so I can't comment on that.

*(I figure if I remove more vowels it'll go faster)

[Sam Uong]

I think the RFLKT is the one that requires a smartphone, it's basically just a screen that displays what your phone tells it to.

--

[Peter Chang]

2017-04-07 10:40 GMT-07:00 Peter Colijn <caff...@colijn.ca>:
> Wait, did you get a wahoo thingee? Do you like it?

it arrived after mariposa so i've only ridden to/from the train so
far. not really anything to go by :-)

> I've been curious about them, but didn't know how much they depend on your phone in order to work (a
> GPS thing that only works if my phone is alive is not appealing to me).

i got a bolt (the smaller element):

- it needs the phone for setup but seems independent otehr than that.

- the model is a little different than garmin, tehre's no explicit
multi-bike stuff rather you just add whatever 'sensors' you want and i
think it senses when it powers up (my city bike has no sensors so that
it didn't find the hr strap was all i could go by)

- you can't turn off all sounds. eg, when you try to power off it
prompts and beeps, the garmin would just do it (at least if there
wasn't a ride in progress). there are settings for beeping, but those
are in addition to whatever wahoo has reserved for themselves.

- some of the 'pages' are ~useless (to me). there's one for 'lap'
information but it only activates when there's >1 lap, my setup was to
show lap time so that i could have something to distract me from how
much each lap (cross) hurt. since the page doesn't activate until
after the first lap, i'm not going to futz w/ it in the middle of the
race.

- no touchscreen. 'nuf said, this was the most ridiculous and
accidentally triggered feature on the 510 (ie, how did i get to this
display and what the hell is it, before i figured out there was a
setting for virtual partner).

- size vs display. i don't show a ton of metrics by default so it's
mostly good. however, the line wrapping is a little odd. w/ something
like time/hr/speed/power you get three lines where the middle two are
jammed on one line. add another thing (distance to next) and it's
still three lines where power/distance are now splitting the line. i
think garmin used to let you decide which lines to split?

- the lines to add/remove thing seems nice, on the garmin i had
activities for this (eg, course=time/hr and sense=time/speed/hr/power)
but on the wahoo if you care you can setup a list and just +/- through
the list.

- it comes w/ maps. the city map is a little confusing (at the default
zoom on the little screen) since i don't think it labels anything, but
having a little context seems a little better than breadcumb mode
(from the 510 which is the only one i'eve ever used).

- time will tell if it can follow routes any better than the 510 (whch
told me that i was off course for all of mariposa, although i only
glanced through the one stretch where there were a couple feeder
streets but no pink plates).

- the little display at the top of the garmin was pretty handy
(temp/time/synced/battery). i don't think the wahoo does anything like
that by default so i'm pretty sure i'm going to run out of battery
regularly.

- i hvaen't figured out if it does satellite searching in the
background if you start a ride. the one that i tried before fixing the
MEMS sensor onthe 510 didn't do this so if you started a ride w/o sync
you had elapsed time and nothing else :-(

\p

[Peter Colijn]

There's a new one called the bolt, which looked interesting to me, but I wasn't sure if it was one of the 'can actually do stuff' ones or one of the 'glorified bluetooth display for a phone' ones.

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[Zak Jarvis]

The Bolt has all features but one row lights from the Elmnt, plus added smallness and slightly better battery life (which is already good).

Peter, I'm pretty sure you can delete pages you don't use. At least... I don't remember continuing to have the useless laps page, but I never use laps.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:07 AM Peter Colijn <caff...@colijn.ca> wrote:

There's a new one called the bolt, which looked interesting to me, but I wasn't sure if it was one of the 'can actually do stuff' ones or one of the 'glorified bluetooth display for a phone' ones.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Sam Uong <sam...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think the RFLKT is the one that requires a smartphone, it's basically just a screen that displays what your phone tells it to.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 10:55 AM Zak Jarvis <voidm...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been riding with an Elmnt* since shortly after they came out. It will work independently of the phone, though it needs one around to download routes from, if you set them up in RideWithGPS first.

I like it a fair bit more than the Garmin. It's got lights across the top and down the side that you can configure for speed, HR, or power, which means you can use more of the screen for other stuff if you want. Turn-by-turn isn't bad, but it needs a phone for "get me from here to that other place" routing. Battery life is good, and I find it way, way more reliable than the Garmin for things like "upload my ride as soon as I'm done". Live tracking is currently a little useless, since it just shows where you are without breadcrumbs, but they plan to fix that... and in theory, it will show you realtime where your Wahoo having friends are, but to date I have none so I can't comment on that.

*(I figure if I remove more vowels it'll go faster)

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 10:41 AM Peter Chang <d...@google.com> wrote:

2017-04-07 10:33 GMT-07:00 Zak Jarvis <voidm...@gmail.com>:
> I was able to fit my Wahoo into a 3rd party Garmin mount without any
> dremeling!

yeah, it's close but inconsistent swapping between mounts (two bikes).
a touch w/ the dremel (or a file really) was all it took to make it
feel like the garmin quarter turn.

otoh, the wahoo mounts are hard to turn. maybe feels more secure but i
think that's what the turn is for?

\p

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[Darrin Ward]

wahoo claims the bolt has less battery life then the elmnt

http://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/bike-computers

i have contemplated my next step after the 510 since i am having trouble with the power button.  but hobe's comments about his wahoo made me somewhat hesitant.  something along the lines of somewhat comparable to the garmin but misses the garmin refinements (ie: where garmin seems like they are uninterested in making changes, wahoo seems like they are always making changes).  maybe though i am mis remembering that.

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[Peter Chang]

zach writes:
> Peter, I'm pretty sure you can delete pages you don't use. At least... I don't remember continuing to have the useless laps page, but I never use laps.

as far as i can tell, the built-in ones can be disabled but not
deleted. taht's fine but i had to futz w/ it before noticing the >1
lap fine print.

2017-04-07 11:06 GMT-07:00 Peter Chang <d...@google.com>:
> - it needs the phone for setup but seems independent otehr than that.

this has one nice feature (for the 5min you're doing setup across the
device's lifetime) that the phone tends to have more real-estate for
showing the full text for the zillions of options, heart rate
normalized across lifetime rides vs heart rate while waiting in line
for coffee vs heart rate (and heart rate was first rather than
randomly in the middle of the list, at least running in french where
it still makes no sense).

it did take me a bit to find 'distance to next' since it's in 'map'
(or carte) and tehre's no 'navigation' category.

otoh, since the list of fields isn't hierarchical (it has headings in
a ginourmous list) i spent a few minutes scrolling through them all
'planning' (or as much as i'm one w/ a plan) what i'd add.

\p

[Daniel Hobe]

I've gotten used to the ELEMNT at like it a lot better than the Garmin
500 I used before. I'm actually thinking of selling it and getting
the BOLT as the one thing I liked better about the Garmin was the
size.

- I liked the configuration of the unit with the Android app. Way
easier to do than Garmin.

- It picks up and keeps the sensor locks way better than Garmin. My
stages power meter always shows up on the ELEMNT and comes and goes on
the Garmin.

- I can control my Wahoo Kickr easily with it

- When I do pair it with my phone it will automatically send my wife
an email with a link to a map that tracks where I am

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[Darrin Ward]

ok clearly i am mis remembering.  i blame old age.

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[Zak Jarvis]

Well, the first couple months were kinda rough going, but they roll out updates in the regular and it can download and install them over wifi. It never needs to be plugged into anything but a charger.

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[Ben Kochie]

I also got an elemnt last year, basically everything Peter said is spot on.

- the turn by turn directions are very nice, actually useful compared to all Garmin devices I've used.

- Setup is way better.

- Wahoo actually fixes bugs when they say they will, and add nice features, not useless crap.

If they keep up what they're doing, I will never get a Garmin again.

I haven't tried the kickr integration, since I have been using Zwift.

[Zak Jarvis]

I've toyed with the Kickr integration: you can stick your bike on the trainer and just tell the head unit to replay a ride from memory and it'll do it.

Beware though, if you turn it on immediately before a ride (like when you're outside already) and start riding, the barometric altimeter can record really wacky climbing data.

The first mile and a half of my ride is NOT a 600' climb, and replaying that data was... interesting.

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[Peter Chang]

more points after using a few more features...

2017-04-07 11:06 GMT-07:00 Peter Chang <d...@google.com>:

> i got a bolt (the smaller element):
>
> - it needs the phone for setup but seems independent otehr than that.

it also seems to really prefer that you use wifi for auto upload to some service (strava / whoo connect / whatever), it uses usb mtp rather than usb mass storage. i can understand not wanting to export the whole filesystem, but i'd like to tag the bike's name and some notes about how i was feeling/whatever, so some amount of online futzing is required anyway.

if you have the phone app running (maybe only on ios) it will connect w/ the device. this lead to annoying messages while riding about losing connection to the phone (which i didn't bother checking on the phone) and blowing through some chunk of the phone battery (al least going by the drain history).

> - it comes w/ maps. the city map is a little confusing (at the default
> zoom on the little screen) since i don't think it labels anything, but
> having a little context seems a little better than breadcumb mode
> (from the 510 which is the only one i'eve ever used).

slo didn't have any multi-way forks (and the markings were good / in-place when i went through) but the little popup indicating the next turn came up in time (although usually was still counting down after i made the turn, i'm assuming gps measurement / something). it also does 'forward' breadcrumbs so you can see which of the various ways are interesting, but this only goes a little way down the map (ie, if you zoom out far enough you don't see the entire route, but i think the zoom out stops at 10km/division).

i had set 'distance to next' on the page but this box wasn't in sync w/ the routing popup, the page would say 100m while the popup was coutning down. the page display is context sensitive, i guess most routes won't have any confusion but it's not labelled (ie, it says 1.2 rather than 1.2km and the label just says unité).

the garmin 'climbing' page lets you set the scale for both axes (i only discovered this accidentally when trying to get off the page because of the touchscreen), but i think the wahoo only changes x-axis. it was useful for seeing the general terrain for what was coming up (if a route was loaded) but not really how much (the route page has a lgend for the scale but the climbing page doesn't have one for either axis). the route page lets you zoom but only once you hit the 'limit' of the metrics shown, you first scroll through +/- on the metrics and then zooming.

> - time will tell if it can follow routes any better than the 510 (whch
> told me that i was off course for all of mariposa, although i only
> glanced through the one stretch where there were a couple feeder
> streets but no pink plates).

- it took me a while to figure out how routing works.

sending a route from the phone works but (unlike the garmin i was 'used to') a power cycle resets the 'current' route. there isn't an obvious thing on the system page (on the device) for managing routes, but on the routing page (in hindsight, i should have looked there) there's a list of all the routes (i had synch-ed from ridewithgps, so i mean 'all'). the 'all' might be weird if you have lots of routes since it doesn't seem to filter by anything, but i only tried on ridewithgps. there were no options on the phone (ridewithgps gives a bunch of file formats tuned across garmin generations) but it seemed to pick something reasonable so it gave all of the turns and names. it didn't include the checkpoints (i think murphy tags these as POI / photo opportunities / something) but there may have been an option i missed when synching.

like the other pages, you can change any of the metrics displayed on the route/climbing pages. my one usage didn't include pre-ride-tainthammer-level turns/confusion while pacing to be dead 1cm past the finish, but it was nice to see my effort while checking how much longer the head-wind-y bit was going to last (yes, i had 'distance to next' but i talked myself into thinking that a curve in the road might increase the cross component of the eigen-something).

> - the little display at the top of the garmin was pretty handy
> (temp/time/synced/battery). i don't think the wahoo does anything like
> that by default so i'm pretty sure i'm going to run out of battery
> regularly.

the 'summary' page shows battery so this doesn't seem like a problem since you go through this to power-down.

batter life is on par w/ the 510, 4x commute (sf-sunnyvale) + 2hr shakedown ride had ~18% left. the 510 is a few years old, but 5x commutes would be single-digit-percent left even when it was newer (my memory of may was charge every four rides).

- based on ride 'save' time it looks like it's doing continuous saving. this might be better for the crash/sudden-power-loss scenario but i haven't tried that out. however, the number of button presses to finish a ride is too-damn-high. i power-off at the end of the ride so this is: pause, finish ride, yes-really, power-off, and yes-really (i might have added one but the soft buttons change positions so i'm not just tapping the same one over/over, i have to read the button labels). probably less than garmin 'save' time (which is also when i'd forget to power-off the device), but marginally annoying.

- auto-power-off has settable times in the reasonable limit (~hour(s), and it doesn't seem to use much power when 'paused'). i disabled this on the garmin when seeing the timeout was ~minutes (eg, power-on, ride to rollout, get coffee, and powered off) so never checked if it ever changed or was changeable.

- sensor polling / smoothing is different than on the garmin. not sure if the hr peaks (~200bpm is off-the-charts for me) are sampling or if the garmin does smoothing (i don't think there's a smoothed hr metric on garmin) or if this is something about using the garmin strap w/ the wahoo or i'm holding it wrong (ie, rtfm).

- the LED bar thing is cute but they're not bright enough in broad daylight. when they flashed for an upcoming turn i could see them but it was also beeping (i thought i had turned that off but now i'm not sure there's a setting for that). if i was looking down, i have few enough metrics that the big number was good enough and i'm not a staring-at-my-stem except for recovery-ish days.

still, a net positive over the 510 but a few of the differences have disrupted my workflow.

\p

[Peter Chang]

2017-04-07 11:06 GMT-07:00 Peter Chang <d...@google.com>:

> i got a bolt (the smaller element):

...

> - i hvaen't figured out if it does satellite searching in the
> background if you start a ride.

it does appear to do this, i hit start before it can show
speed/whatever (no speed/cadence sensors), and i see speed a little
later when it finds enough satellites. it probably helps that i'm in
the sunnyvale office park wasteland rather than the city for finding
satellites while moving (older garmins used to suck at that).

otoh, how it does sensor search is 'different'. it supports ble and
ant+ but when/how it does that is beyond me, it appears that it does
ble scanning after it finds satellites (or that somehow shares the
same data path). ant+ seems to search/sync immediately on power-up,
but ble only appears after satellite sync.

\p

[Zak Jarvis]

I had mine navigate me from EPA to the De Anza flea market today, and it worked. I think it's just using the google bike map directions, but it took me into the Google campus then veered off into miles of residential stop signs to get to the Stevens Creek trail just in time for the official detour over sidewalks.

But it worked, and only directed me to cross one road with no light or stop signs and a hundred million cars.

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[Rob]

I had one picked up in milan because of the navigation. The problem I'm having, and others apparently from comments in the dc rainmaker bolt review, is when I do an eastern sierra like climb, or perhaps the stelvio, is after a certain height it just records zero for the elevation. Looking at the elevation profile from this ride:

https://www.strava.com/activities/1014530672 which was an out and back up the stelvio pass (and thus elev profile should be symmetric), at 8,000 ft, 1,000 ft short of the summit, the bolt just decided i fell of a cliff and was at zero ft for the rest or the ride. I filed a bug request and was pointed to an article about elevation drift: https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000441324-Why-am-I-seeing-differences-in-elevation-in-my-ride-data-

[Darrin Ward]

so i have been looking for a new cycling computer since my garmin 510 has a bad power button issue that makes it super annoying to use.  i think i finally decided on a wahoo elemnt bolt (despite the bugs) but then when i went to buy it on amazon, i realized no one sells it on amazon.  and i was conflicted on whether or not i even want it anymore.  then i realized that, that in itself is really weird.  

On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rob <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:

I had one picked up in milan because of the navigation. The problem I'm having, and others apparently from comments in the dc rainmaker bolt review, is when I do an eastern sierra like climb, or perhaps the stelvio, is after a certain height it just records zero for the elevation. Looking at the elevation profile from this ride:

https://www.strava.com/activities/1014530672 which was an out and back up the stelvio pass (and thus elev profile should be symmetric), at 8,000 ft, 1,000 ft short of the summit, the bolt just decided i fell of a cliff and was at zero ft for the rest or the ride. I filed a bug request and was pointed to an article about elevation drift: https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000441324-Why-am-I-seeing-differences-in-elevation-in-my-ride-data-

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[Ben Blizard]

The quarter turn mount on the back of my 510 finally  died a week ago.  

Bought the 820.  Really like it.  Easy transition.  So far -- like the 510 but better.  

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[Peter Chang]

Le jeudi 1 juin 2017 13:39:57 UTC-7, Rob a écrit :

I had one picked up in milan because of the navigation. The problem I'm having, and others apparently from comments in the dc rainmaker bolt review, is when I do an eastern sierra like climb, or perhaps the stelvio, is after a certain height it just records zero for the elevation

they just pushed an update that mentions elevation/power recording, but the dc offset i see on the powertap i'm not sure it's actually fixed.

\p

[Peter Colijn]

Coming back to this old thread since I got the bolt too. Peter, do you still have mounts available?

Some of my notes, for anyone curious:

Overall, I'm liking it, but the power meter integration so far has been terrible. If I stop for a little while (eg. to eat or get a coffee) and leave the bolt running, it disconnects from my power meter and never comes back. This is probably because the power meter itself goes to sleep after a little while, but it's supposed to wake up again as soon as you start moving. I never had this issue with Garmin. The other issue is that there doesn't seem to be a low battery warning? At least, when I went to Phoenix one of my units died and I only noticed a little while later the next time I stopped; I don't remember it warning me that it was low.

I also noticed the things Peter mentioned, like the route dropping after a power cycle and the distance-to-next-turn thingy being a bit wonky, but those are fairly minor with easy workarounds. So far I have not had the "lurch issue" (crappy GPS) or the "rob issue" (elevation recorded as 0 above a certain point). Other minor nit: takes a bit longer to boot than Garmin, especially if you paused your ride and powered off; it will need a while to "recover" the ride when it boots.

Aside from those issues it's better (for me at least) that Garmin in almost every way:

- selecting maps is really easy to do in the app on your phone

- setting up data screens is easy to do in the app on your phone

- the thing has a decent amount of memory and can actually hold a lot of maps

- battery life is better than 520 (probably about the same or maybe a bit worse than 510)

- loading routes from ridewithgps: holeeeeee shit, the device can sync directly from ridewithgps when on wifi; this is AMAZING. I can't count how many _hours_ I spent trying to get my old garmins to load routes I had downloaded from ridewithgps, since they have to convert the TCX file to a FIT file when they boot up, it's always hit or miss whether it will actually work or the device will just crash and not boot. The bolt syncs straight from ridewithgps, I don't need to copy files around or anything, and it actually works. This alone is probably worth the cost of the device for me.

- no virtual partner! fuck you virtual partner, you can rot in hell

- zooming in/out for less/more data fields is actually kinda cool; I thought it would be more of a gimmick but I like it

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[Peter Chang]

Le jeu. 31 mai 2018 à 17:28, Peter Colijn <caff...@colijn.ca> a écrit :
>
> Coming back to this old thread since I got the bolt too. Peter, do you still have mounts available?

yep, out front and w/ the o-rings. i'll bring them to ffffff tomorrow?

[Zak Jarvis]

Hmm. I haven’t had that power meter problem with it disconnecting on sleep without reconnecting. Dunno if that’s a difference between models or a specific power meter thing.

If you feel like it, I’d be game to swap devices to see if you have better luck with the big model.

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[Peter Colijn]

Cool, thanks!

[Rob]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 5:28:45 PM UTC-7, Peter Colijn wrote:

 "rob issue" (elevation recorded as 0 above a certain point).

that issue seems to be fixed -- verified it in boulder where maciek routed me up over 9k ft a bunch of times. 

[Christine Ryan]

Actually, I feel a little sorry for Peter’s virtual partner...

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