OT: tires

[Jacky Schuler]

Sorry for the OT post but I am due for some new tires on my road bike and I wanted to get some opinions. I have to get something that's in stock at Sports Basement, which is probably going to be the following:

* GP4000S II

* Schwalbe Ultremo-ish

* Michelin Pro 4

* Maybe some fancy Vittorias (Diamante Pros or something like that)

* Maybe the Vredstein Tri-Comp (I think that was the name)

I have been wanting to try out the Pro 4s because I had their cheap road tires and liked them quite a bit so I am leaning towards those. I do like my 4000Ss though and I have heard good things about the Ultremos as well. The fancy Vittorias are also supposed to be nice but I hated the cheapie Vittorias so that one would take some convincing...

-- jacky

[John Murphy]

The 4000s are still on sale for $40 w free shipping at probikekit.com

They had a code GP4US that was another 15% off going 

John Murphy - ta...@murphstahoe.com

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[Peter Chang]

2014-03-05 21:32 GMT-08:00 Jacky Schuler <jackys...@gmail.com>:
> I have been wanting to try out the Pro 4s because I had their cheap road
> tires and liked them quite a bit so I am leaning towards those.

i found that tehy were nice but their life wasn't the greatest; they
went from good to missing chunks of rubber falling apart pretty fast.
i only had a couple thousand miles on them.

> I do like my 4000Ss though and I have heard good things about the Ultremos as well.

i've stuck w/ conti for maybe too long, but they have a pretty good
tradeoff between feel and lifetime. someone always has some variant on
sale.

> The fancy Vittorias are also supposed to be nice but I hated the cheapie
> Vittorias so that one would take some convincing...

the fancy vittoria (open clincher or whatever they call them) are
really nice tires. i do prefer it on the front though. the 'open' bit
means slightly less rubber and more wear in the rear. some place had a
sle on the open corsas last year for ~45 a piece so i stocked up.

\p

[Maxence Nachury]

Not a bg fan of the Pro4s. I have a 25 with very few miles to give away. Beware that the Pro4S 25 is very tall and may rub on brake bridge in the rear (at least this was the case on my Look 585).

My two gripes were high rolling resistance and weak sidewalls. The cornering feel was also quite different from the other tires I am used to (Veloflex Corsa and Vittoria Open Pave).

[Peter Chang]

2014-03-06 9:53 GMT-08:00 Maxence Nachury <nac...@gmail.com>:
> Not a bg fan of the Pro4s. I have a 25 with very few miles to give away. Beware that the Pro4S 25 is very tall and may rub on brake bridge in the rear (at least this was the case on my Look 585).
>
> My two gripes were high rolling resistance and weak sidewalls. The cornering feel was also quite different from the other tires I am used to (Veloflex Corsa and Vittoria Open Pave).

i only commented on the brands jacky listed, but thought that veloflex
made a nice tire. i haven't seen these locally since moving the from
the peninsula (where i found them at PAB along w/ hutchinson gold
which were a fast wearing steal at 10 a piece).

\p

[Brett Lider]

I've really liked my Hutchinson tubeless 25mm. I'm swapping to their 28mm tire for Sunday's Spring Classic and may leave them on my bike if I like 'em.

\p

[Jeffrey Skokan]

After going through a couple of pairs of Schwalbe Ultremo ZXs, I have to say they are great on ride feel, grip and puncture resistance, but they don't last that long.  I had to replace the rear after 1000 miles, and after more than 1500 miles of riding on these, I got my first flat on Tuesday.

[Darrin Ward]

it seems a lot of this always comes down to personal preference.

i was huge conti fan until i had a side wall blow out and had to walk
a mile to the nearest caltrain station.

[Carlin Eng]

Sounds like you're looking at the top range of most of these brands, so I think performance-wise they'll all be quite similar. Out of all the options, I'd probably just go with whatever's cheapest, and see how you like them. If they don't live up to your expectations, go on to the next one.

It also depends on what you're trying to optimize... if you want the most miles/dollar out of your tire, get something like Gatorskins. If you want smooth road feel and low rolling resistance, but don't mind if you need to replace your tire after 3 months, go with the Michelin Pro4s.

[djconnel]

I've had a really good experience with Gran Bois 26 mm from Box Dog.

The distributor, Compass, just came out with a new line of more expensive, performance-oriented tires.  The 26 mm version:

http://www.compasscycle.com/tires_comp_700_26.html

On my new bike I have Challenge Strada Bianca and these seem to be quite nice.

http://gravelgrindernews.com/challenge-tires-strada-bianca-tire-review-intro-first-impressions/

But they require 32 mm clearance (measured on 23 mm rims).

[Peter Colijn]

I like 4seasons and gatorskin hardshells. The other contis give me too many flats. I've also used Vittorias and found them decent in terms of puncture resistance and ride feel, but they were real mother Fs to get on and off the rim, even after doing it a few times.

[Jacky Schuler]

Thanks for all of the input! This was exactly what I am looking for! Rob gave me a 4000S to use for now so I will do a bit of research and probably order some or go with the 4000S II.

I don't really want to go for Gatorskins or anything like that (I don't really get too many flats as long as I swap out my tires in time) and I find that the 4000Ss are a good happy medium for me. I just wanted to see if anybody else has anything they really like/dislike. 

-- jacky

[Faye]

I have used 4000s's for most of my riding life, but I did have ultremo's that came stock on my Cdale, and then since they looked cooler than the 4000s's, I bought one more pair.  I can't say I notice any difference in performance between the two (but honestly, I am not that sensitive or tuned into that), BUT the puncture resistance is WAY better on the 4000s's... like they are not even in the same genus, let alone the same species when it comes to puncture resistance.  Their puncture resistance is rated as highly a gatorskins, but their performance is much better.  I can't speak to the other tire types.

[Mark Kahn]

i sense threadzilla coming on...

I was running gators for a long time but switched back to 4000s.  Gators are awesome for durability but don't like the way they wear.  YMMV.

[Peter Colijn]

Yeah, in my case the 4000s' always seemed to flat way more than gators or 4seasons... I think 4seasons are my favorite road tire overall.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Peter Chang]

2014-03-06 14:36 GMT-08:00 djconnel <djco...@gmail.com>:
> I've had a really good experience with Gran Bois 26 mm from Box Dog.
>
> The distributor, Compass, just came out with a new line of more expensive,
> performance-oriented tires. The 26 mm version:
> http://www.compasscycle.com/tires_comp_700_26.html

it should be noted that the grand bois is also a pretty light tire.
the 30mm (patrick measured them at 32mm) is ~230g while the 4000S 23mm
is ~205g.

\p

[Andrew Valko]

I know the Continental line pretty well, but I know next to nothing about the other brands. If the Ultremo is the Schwalbe equivalent of the 4000S, what's Schwalbe's Gatorskin parallel? Is there one?

[Carlin Eng]

I'd guess the Marathons. The Marathon Supremes are really popular tires for fully loaded, self-sufficient, long-beard inducing tours.

On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Andrew Valko <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know the Continental line pretty well, but I know next to nothing about the other brands. If the Ultremo is the Schwalbe equivalent of the 4000S, what's Schwalbe's Gatorskin parallel? Is there one?

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[Jacky Schuler]

Ouch...blowout! It seemed like there was a batch of 4000Ss that had some issues with the sidewalls. When I was at Sports Basement we got a lot of returns for sidewall blowouts within 3ish months....and none before or after that.

The sidewalls do seem pretty thin though... 

-- jacky

On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Marcello Pedersen <mped...@google.com> wrote:

I find that the GP4000SII a great combination of wet/dry performance, weight, durability, and price. 

In my experience the Ultremo ZX have great handling, ok puncture resistance but $$$. Gatorskins great puncture resistance but terrible wet handling. I recently tried the specialized armadillo but wasn't impressed after a benign puncture on a brand newish tire .  Below are my stats for my main bike:

Front Tire Continental GP4000s 700x25mm Foldable Nov 8, 2013 2,063.3mi active (no flats)

Rear Tire Continental GP4000s 700x25mm Foldable Jan 11, 2014 877.3mi active (no flats)

Front Tire Continental GP4000s 700x25mm Foldable Aug 6, 2013 Nov 8, 2013 1,930.7 mi retired (front tire blowout after sharp rock)

Rear Tire Continental GP4000s 700x25mm Foldable Aug 6, 2013 Jan 11, 2014 3,116.7 mi retired (flat at 3,100 ish)

Front Tire Continental Gatorskins 700x25mm wirebead 03/09/2013 08/06/2013 3,129.0mi retired (no flats moved to other bike)

Rear Tire Continental Gatorskins 700x25mm wirebead 03/09/2013 08/06/2013 3,129.0mi retired (no flats)

Front Tire Schwalbe Ultremo ZX 700x23mm Foldable 12/21/2012 03/08/2013 1,071.1mi retired (1 flat)

Rear Tire Schwalbe   Ultremo ZX 700x23mm Foldable 12/21/2012 03/08/2013 1,071.1mi retired (no flats)

[Marcello Pedersen]

Yes I heard about that here and in forums. My blowout was caused because I ran over a very sharp rock on Hawk Hill while it was dark and I didn't have any front lights. Can't blame the tire for that though. I buy my GPs from Ebay and check to make sure I am getting new 2014 stock.

[Patrick Kitto]

The only thing longer than a tire thread is a bag thread. 

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Patrick Kitto]

Yes, my grand bois 32 is lighter than my 4000s 25. But at $75/tire, it
ain't cheap.

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[Janos]

I think you guys are talking about the wrong Ultremo. Check out the Ultremo DD. I have been very happy with mine and will definitely replace with the same. I don't want to jinx it, but zero flats on the road in over 2000 miles.

[Daniel Connelly]

In the Mission:

http://ruthworkssf.blogspot.com/

---

From: Patrick Kitto <patric...@gmail.com>

[Scott Crosby]

I love the double-Ds

[Daniel Hobe]

I had my 4th flat this morning on a new set on of Pro4 Service Course
tires over just 800 miles. Some people seem to have better luck but I
think I'll be staying away from them from now on.

I've got a set of Schwalbe One's to try next. If those don't work out
I'll go to the Double Ds a-la Crosby

--
Daniel Hobe <ho...@gmail.com>

[Darrin Ward]

so the service course is meant more for pro racing and not the commute
we know as bayway. several bike shop people have told me dont expect
more than 500-1000 miles on them.

i am curious about the michelin pro 4 endurance which people have told
me is suppose to be the equivalent of the 4 seasons.

sadly my amazon prime habit does not support such adventures.

lurch

[Jason Thorpe]

On Mar 19, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com> wrote:

so the service course is meant more for pro racing

Not really (they’re clinchers!)

-- thorpej

[Jason Thorpe]

On Mar 19, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just buy a set of Mr Tuffys and run whatever tire you like!

-- thorpej

[Dave Blizard]

I've been using Pro 4 "Endurance" for a while and really like them. The regular pro 4's are too soft and sticky for commuting. I tried them for a while but could never get many miles before wearing them down to the cords.

D

[Daniel Connelly]

Sounds good.  That'll slow him down a bit and making it easier for all of us :).

Mr Tuffies are a significant hit on rolling resistance.

The Conti 4-seasons or even Gatorskins (surprisingly) do a lot better in RR tests.

---

From: Jason Thorpe <tho...@me.com>
To: Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com>
Cc: Daniel Hobe <ho...@gmail.com>; Scott Crosby <scr...@gmail.com>; Dan Connelly <djco...@gmail.com>; SF2G <sf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: OT: tires

[Jason Thorpe]

On Mar 19, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Daniel Connelly <djco...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Sounds good.  That'll slow him down a bit and making it easier for all of us :).

Mr Tuffies are a significant hit on rolling resistance.

Yah, but I suck it up when I know I’m riding through all that glass (or anywhere in Arizona where there are hella road hazards).

The Conti 4-seasons or even Gatorskins (surprisingly) do a lot better in RR tests.

---

From: Jason Thorpe <tho...@me.com>
To: Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com>
Cc: Daniel Hobe <ho...@gmail.com>; Scott Crosby <scr...@gmail.com>; Dan Connelly <djco...@gmail.com>; SF2G <sf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: OT: tires

On Mar 19, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just buy a set of Mr Tuffys and run whatever tire you like!

-- thorpej

[Maxence Nachury]

What part of the tires got the glass shard?

I ran Pro4 for a short while and was appalled at the sidewall durability. One got slashed to oblivion and the other one got a small cut.
Never had sidewall issues with Veloflex (also considered a race tire).

[Daniel Hobe]

All the punctures were little bits of glass in the center of the tread.

I didn't get the Endurance version because it didn't come in all black
on biketiresdirect.com. It seems there is an all black 25mm version
so those might be a good one to try next.

I love Vittoria Pave's but the green stripes make the new bike look
like it's decorated for christmas all the time.

[Lorne Kligerman]

Reviving this thread for a sec here as my Gators are all sliced up and blew the sidewall on one last weekend.

Sounds like the favourites here are the 4000S and the Ultremo DD.

My question is, any suggestion on which would hold out longer for a tall guy?  I'm 6'4 and ~220lbs.  I've been on 23s but have to be careful to always super inflate and the odd pot hole will pinch, although I know some of this is my own fault.  Was thinking of putting a 25 at least on the back.

[Daniel Connelly]

Definitely at least 25 front and back as soon as the time comes to swap the front.  Or move the front to the back and then when it wears out replace it with a 25.  Or better yet, 28's if they fit.

This is why I like the Gran Bois (or Compass now, as well) tires: they're true 26, and that's 8% more air than a 25.

On my new bike I have 32's @ 65 psi.   Plush!  And for commuting, there's really no disadvantage other than weight.  Still, I got my 2nd fastest time up Tartan Trail on the bike out of 11 on Thursday.  Or maybe that was because Rob was breathing down my neck.... (luckily he'd already ridden 100 miles or so that day).

---

From: Lorne Kligerman <lo...@kligerman.com>
To: sf...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Maxence Nachury <nac...@gmail.com>; Scott Crosby <scr...@gmail.com>; Dan Connelly <djco...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: OT: tires

[Darrin Ward]

dont ride 23s.

im 6 foot 7, 250 and ride 25s. i found riding 23s to be to problematic.

also contis in general are known for these issues (sidewall blowouts).
i still using the conti 4 seasons on most of my bikes but recently
been using the michelin pro 4 endurance.

[Alan Antonuk]

I suffered a sliced side-wall on a 4000S this morning on my way to work that lead me to divert to Milbrae for alternate transport (so grain of salt, I'm a bit bitter...)

Having been a long-term gatorskin user: I feel the 4000S tires fall a bit short on the longevity category: given I only have maybe 1000-2000 miles on the tires, I've worn quite a bit of a flat-spot on the rear tire, and there are quite a few side-wall abrasions from random bits of road junk.  Upshot on the 4000S's is they have MUCH better grip in the rain than the gatorskins.

-Alan

[Darrin Ward]

people were surprised that i carry a spare tire on me but it
definitely has come in hand multiple times now. just this week it
helped dq not have to go to the nearest train station.

[John Murphy]

Wear vs Cost.

Chain love is running Conti 4000 Grand Prix (no s) for 28 bucks a tire, on and off this week.

John Murphy - ta...@murphstahoe.com

[Peter Colijn]

Those things are like paper. Lucky if you get 100 miles out of em.

I'm riding a bike across Zambia to fight AIDS and poverty. Please support me with a small donation.

[Jason Thorpe]

On May 16, 2014, at 11:07 AM, Peter Colijn <caff...@colijn.ca> wrote:

> Those things are like paper. Lucky if you get 100 miles out of em.

…and after riding on Veloflex Corsa 25s over the last several weeks, I’m never ordering another Continental (except for the tandem).

-- thorpej

[Jacky Schuler]

I still love my 4000s tires but I am not a large person.

-- jacky

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jason Thorpe <tho...@me.com> wrote:

On May 16, 2014, at 11:07 AM, Peter Colijn <caff...@colijn.ca> wrote:

> Those things are like paper. Lucky if you get 100 miles out of em.

...and after riding on Veloflex Corsa 25s over the last several weeks, I'm never ordering another Continental (except for the tandem).

-- thorpej

[Darrin Ward]

we can argue about tires all we want.

but really my suggestion for lorne is to switch to 25s instead of 23s.

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jason Thorpe <tho...@me.com> wrote:
>

> On May 16, 2014, at 11:07 AM, Peter Colijn <caff...@colijn.ca> wrote:
>
>> Those things are like paper. Lucky if you get 100 miles out of em.
>

> ...and after riding on Veloflex Corsa 25s over the last several weeks, I'm never ordering another Continental (except for the tandem).
>
> -- thorpej
>

[Jacky Schuler]

I agree with that. 25s are awesome.

-- jacky

[Lorne Kligerman]

Sold!  25s it is!  I've been using contis for a while, may give something else a try.

[Carlin Eng]

People discuss tires more than any other bike component. Ultimately its about what you want out of them. The top brands (Continental, Michelin, Schwalbe, Vittoria, Panaracer etc.) all have tires for different conditions, and more than likely, they'll all be good at what they're supposed to be good at.

As a caveat, I think there was a run of Conti GP4000S tires that was known to have really weak sidewalls.

I like 25s. I also like 33s. My advice is to get the widest tire your frame can fit with acceptable clearance.

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Jacky Schuler <jackys...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Sam McCandlish]

The tires that came on my bike (Schwalbe Lugano 700x25 w/ Kevlar Guard) have been flatting once every ~300mi lately, so I'm planning to change them out for something nicer.  This might have something to do with me using 18-23mm tubes for my 25mm tires (which I've now corrected), but I'm still interested to see what a nicer tire rides like.

There seems to be a lot of love for the GP4000SIIs here, so I ordered a pair of those.  However, I do like to do some light touring with the occasional packed dirt trail.   Should I also pick up a pair of GP 4-seasons and switch them out when I plan on riding any trails, or will the GP4000SIIs be fine?

-Sam

[Marcelo Vanzin]

I climbed Purisima Creek Rd on a GP4000SIIs 23 (rear tire, had an older Gatorskin up front) and had no problems (well, not any more that I'd expect climbing that road). Tire is still great after lots of riding (including some more minor dirt).

So unless you're looking at lots of gravel or loose dirt (or mud), I'd say they should be fine.

[Judd Blair]

God knows why I'm even piling on this thing but...

When it comes to the big name mainstream tires, you're going to either be a conti guy/gal or a michelin guy/gal. I'm (mostly) a michelin guy - I use Gatorskins on most of my commuters, but my road bikes get either Pro 4 endurance or service corse. They're both great tires - the Pro 4 service corse are basically the same as the Pro 3's before them - very soft rubber, which I love in the corners. Chunks will fly off the tires if you look at them wrong, but the solution here is just "don't run over shit." I would not use them on bayway every day. Pro 4 endurance are great - vastly improved over the Krylions they replaced in grip and road feel. 

Frankly, they're just like pedals. They all do essentially the same thing, you'll probably end up liking whatever one you start on the most, for some reason everyone is still convinced their choice is superior, and they have the data to back it up (even if it's entirely anecdotal). 

[Peter Chang]

2014-07-08 11:02 GMT-07:00 Judd Blair <judd...@gmail.com>:
> God knows why I'm even piling on this thing but...

http://xkcd.com/386/

\p

[Keith Berkoben]

because I haven't read the forum in like three months, coming in a little late...

For a pure commuter, there is none better than Panaracer TServ.  Comes in a variety to sizes, is reasonably priced, rolls fast, is good in the wet and you will wear them down to the threads every time before you flat them.  Not sticky for corners, but for a commuter not a big deal.  My biggest regret is not getting a pair for my SF2G bike yet.  

[Janos]

My favorite tire (Schwalbe Ultremo DD) has been discontinued and I need to try something else relatively soon. Any updates to this thread?

[Max Nachury]

Veloflex Corsa 25 FTW. Nothing compares.

Autocorrected courtesy of iOS

> On Mar 30, 2015, at 06:37, Janos <roja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My favorite tire (Schwalbe Ultremo DD) has been discontinued and I need to try something else relatively soon. Any updates to this thread?
>

[Alan Antonuk]

25mm Conti Gatorskins

As long as it isn't raining, and it appears we currently live in a desert.

(FYI: everyone has a slightly different opinion on what the 'best' tire is, you're likely to get as many opinions as there are people on this list).

[Jason Thorpe]

> On Mar 30, 2015, at 8:59 AM, Max Nachury <nac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Veloflex Corsa 25 FTW. Nothing compares.

+1

Note that they may wear a little faster than a poor-handling German tire, but it’s absolutely worth it. They are like riding on pillows, and they grip like all get-out. That said, I have > 3700mi on a Veloflex front tire right now, and it’s still going strong after using a toothpick to put some black Shoe Goo into a couple of nicks in the tread. I get about 1500mi out of a Veloflex on the rear, but then again I’m a pretty big guy that ranges from 185-195 lbs during the year — someone smaller than me can certainly squeeze a bit more out of them.

You could go all out and run latex tubes in them, but that will just piss you off whenever you do get a flat (and you can’t really patch latex tubes — yes, I’m a tube-patcher… Well, ok, you technically can, but holy sh*t is it a huge pain that involves making your own patches out of another presumably-dead latex tube and gluing with Mastik. F that. Butyl FTW.)

-- thorpej

[Peter Colijn]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Alan Antonuk <alan.a...@gmail.com> wrote:

25mm Conti Gatorskins

As long as it isn't raining, and it appears we currently live in a desert.

Ok, I'll bite. What's wrong with contis in the rain? 

[Judd Blair]

Nothing, as long as they aren't Gatorskins.

--

[Jason Thorpe]

Well, Gatorskins, in particular, have a very un-grippy rubber compound that’s harder (the point of that tire).  Also, Gatorskins completely lack any grip on the sides.

GP4000s are a good tire, and they grip fine, but having ridden both those and the Veloflex, I very much prefer the Veloflex.

-- thorpej

[Alan Antonuk]

Gatorskins specifically have very poor grip on wet surfaces. Other conti tires tend to fare a lot better when its wet (though don't have the longevity the gatorskins do).

[Alan Antonuk]

More opinion ahead: I found that the GP4000s I tried (I've only gone through 4 tires, so N is small), tend to get a lot of sidewall cuts, which sucks when you're commuting and don't want to miss that 9:30a meeting.  They do have good grip in the wet though.

-Alan

[Jeffrey Skokan]

I'm currently riding on Schwalbe One tires which might be the successor to the Ultremo DDs.  I think they are suppose to be closer to the Ultremo ZXs, but with a bit more longevity.  We'll see after I get 1000 miles on these (only got 100 so far).

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[Kurt Wallace Martin]

I’ve been happy on Hutch Sectors lately, running tubeless. They let me not see holes in the road and/or do dirt a bit. They’re 28s but seem plenty fast.

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/components/tyres/road/product/review-hutchinson-sector-28-48424/

kurt

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[Max Nachury]

I get the same mileage as Jason out of the Veloflex even though I weigh 30 lb less. I like to replace tires early because I hate fixing flats.

I run latex tubes and got a total of 2 flats last year.



Autocorrected courtesy of iOS

[Peter Colijn]

Ok, fine, what's wrong with gatorskins in the rain?

[Nathan Dushman]

Not that I've done any scientific testing of this, but my understanding is that Gatorskins use a relatively hard rubber. This is good for puncture resistance and wear, but the tradeoff is that it doesn't conform as well to the texture of the road, which is what makes a tire "grip". This isn't much of a problem when it's dry, but in wet conditions that reduce friction between the tire and the road it can make a difference. In theory, anyway.

Nathan

[Johan Beisser]

My issue with Gatorskins is the loss of feedback from the road
surface. They were, frankly, terrible tires. In the wet, they lost
nearly all feedback, and seemed to slide even if the road surface was
just slightly damp.

On the other hand, I only had one flat with them.

[Peter Colijn]

Huh. I'm using 4seasons now but I never recall having these issues with gatorskins. Rode em all year round. I switched to 4seasons mostly because I found them more puncture resistant (which is ironic, since gatorskins are marketed for that reason).

Regarding harder rubber and tire deformation: wouldn't dropping the pressure a bit solve that? I guess that reduces your puncture resistance a bit.

[Darrin Ward]

isnt this only proving the often stated point that tires are entirely personal preference?

i use michelin pro endurance tires only cause the conti's 4 seasons had a side wall blow out on bayway and i had to walk 1.X miles to caltrain which SUCKED.  i didnt have a boot to fix it with that would of held.  i have no logical reason to say one tire is better than another besides the fact the michelins havent made me walk to caltrain yet.

can we talk about hand grinding coffee or ipas yet?

[Christine Ryan]

And pizza. For god's sake don't leave out pizza.

[Nathan Dushman]

On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 1:52:37 PM UTC-7, Peter Colijn wrote:

Regarding harder rubber and tire deformation: wouldn't dropping the pressure a bit solve that? I guess that reduces your puncture resistance a bit.

I'm waiting for a mechanical engineer to jump in and tell me why I'm wrong here, but I think tire pressure would have a much smaller effect than you'd expect, because the road texture that gives tires grip is small, and tire pressure will mostly affect how smoothly you roll over bigger things. Tire hardness determines how much the tire conforms to whatever is under the contact patch. Decreasing the tire pressure will slightly increase the size of the contact patch, but not how easily the tire deforms on that level.

[Peter Colijn]

Well I've just heard the "gatorskins + rain = bad" line a few times and was wondering where it came from. Seems to be more perpetuated myth than anything else. But I think that can be said about most tire opinions, so yeah, tires are definitely a personal choice.

Speaking of IPAs, I've developed a fondness for Belgian IPAs recently, eg.

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/321/27804/

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Darrin Ward <dmw...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Rob]

On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 2:18:33 PM UTC-7, Peter Colijn wrote:

Well I've just heard the "gatorskins + rain = bad" line a few times and was wondering where it came from. Seems to be more perpetuated myth than anything else. But I think that can be said about most tire opinions, so yeah, tires are definitely a personal choice.

probably from people crashing on gatorskins in the rain?

alan wiped out on a damp crystal springs descent last year. i know marcello crashed a couple times when it was wet a few years ago but perhaps there was a wooden bridge involved too. i thought the grip sucked when i got into a little front wheel skid going down vermont street while ride home from caltrain and just threw the tire away when i got home. 

[Peter Colijn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrqSizC-T-4

[Alan Antonuk]

Yup that was one example. I used to have them on my pit wheels, right up to the crit I did in the pouring rain: I was having zero issues for the first 2/3 of the race on some Michelin Pro Race3's, before I flatted my rear. Swapped to the pit wheel, which had a new-ish Gatorskin on it: same corners, same rain, same rider, completely different experience, it felt like the back end was riding on ice it was so slick. Scared the crap out of someone on my wheel 3 laps to go when I fishtailed it so bad coming out of the corner I nearly hit the curb, the guy behind me must've been overlapping wheels as he had to hop the curb to stay in it.

Yeah anyway, not great rain tires, they're good enough in the dry (I've done crits on them without issue), and will last 5k miles without a problem.

-Alan