Ralston Bike Path

[Jason Terk]

The Ralston bike path was open this morning - it's now lined with barbed
wire. Does this choice of fencing material strike anyone else as a bad
idea?

--
Jason Terk
ja...@goterkyourself.com

[Darrin Ward]

nothing more inviting than making your public space look like a prison.  :)

there should be armed guards too.

--
  Jason Terk
  ja...@goterkyourself.com

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[Gary Colman]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Jason Terk <ja...@goterkyourself.com> wrote:

The Ralston bike path was open this morning - it's now lined with barbed
wire. 

Does this choice of fencing material strike anyone

... it's just a matter of time before it does :-(

G

[Ted Ketai]

What exactly are they trying to keep in and/or out? 

Did they fix the asphalt or did they just put up fences? 

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Jason Terk <ja...@goterkyourself.com> wrote:

--
  Jason Terk
  ja...@goterkyourself.com

[djconnel]

Other than the maximum security feature how is it?

Previous appearance: StreetView

[Alexandre Passos]

Maybe they're trying to keep deer out? Though I've never seen deer there (and many times on SCT and manzanita road despite some barbed wire fences there).

--

 - Alexandre

[Jason Terk]

The resurfaced with asphalt everything except for the "bump" at the bottom of the hill from Polhemus - it's smooth, feels a bit more claustrophobic than it did before because of the fencing.

 

--

Jason Terk

ja...@goterkyourself.com

 

[Patrick Lea]

When we went by last week there was already new paving.

Deer are impressive jumpers. Clearing 6' high fences is not really that challenging for them so it had to be pretty tall barbed wire for deer and you still find them on the other side.

[Kurt Wallace Martin]

Fences are like bollards to some people. Fun to stick on the plan.

[twothirds]

From Edward Hasbrouck and the SVBC SMC list...


+++++++ ++++++++

On Saturday I encountered a work crew supervised by the San Mateo Parks
Dept. fencing in the Ralson Ave. multi-use path with barbed wire.

My riding companion posted about this here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/northern-california/1002958-new-barbed-wire-along
-ralston-ave-bike-trail-between-polhemus-canada-roads.html

The fencing is extremely dangerous.

I don't think it was maliciously designed, just thoughtlessly.

I regret that we didn't get the name of the park ranger in charge. If
anyone has, or can get, the right points of contact at the park district
and -- perhaps more importantly -- Caltrans, that would be helpful.

Some thoughts to add to my companion's desription linked above:

(1) Caltrans' concerns about freeway incursions could easily be addressed
by Caltrans by putting whtever fence they want on Caltrans land a
resonable setback from the path. I don't know if there are any engineering
guidelines for shoulders on multi-use paths, or setback distance to
dangerous objects alongside them (probably not, since they aren't thought
of as non-motorized vehicular roadways), but ideally there should be room
to ride off the edge of pavement and fall outward -- maybe 5-6 feet?

(2) Roadways used by motor vehicles are designed with attention to
shoulder and edge condition. If the shoulder is inadequate for emergency
stopping, it is typically signed (e.g. "soft shoulder next N miles".  If
the shoulder is going to disappear, it is typically signed (e.g. "shoulder
ends", and/or "no shoulder next N miles").  Jersey barriers (I think som
Californians call them "K-rail") are designed to deflect vehicles back
into the roadway, with minimum risk of snagging them. In this case, the
barbed wire was deigsned without consideration of the fact that while it
was "off the path", it was still within the de facto "shoulder" area that
affects path users and safety.  One of my worst crashes ever occurred on a
mixed-use path where I was struck by an oncoming rider niot in control of
their bike, who veered acortss the unmarked centeline into my path.  A
useable shoulder or verge can provide an emergency escape in such cases.

(3) This is that relatively rare case where, because I-280 is closed to
bicycles and the mixed-use path is closed to motor vehicles, there is a
direct choice, and the safety of non-motorized vehicle operators who
might get flayed on the fence is being *directly* traded off for the
safety of motorists who might hit deer on the Interstate.  (Although no
trade-off is really necessary -- see item 1 above.)

+++++++ ++++++++

[Lina Mårtensson]

I am deeply confused as to what the purpose of the fence might be. I'm guessing what's mentioned in this email are the guesses by the author and not based on information from Caltrans?

Freeway incursions by whom? Deer? As mentioned before, they easily jump over fences. People? I doubt this is a problem there, and even if it were, I doubt the fence would stop anyone.

But let's just fence everything in and close off access and let the pot growers roam, because this is 'Murica.

-Lina

--

[Bret Lobree]

This seems like an appropriate time to plug this pod cast: http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/devils-rope/

and from now on I refer to barbed wire as devil's rope.

[Maxence Nachury]

The new tarmac is superb on the bike path. I found the beat-up tarmac more fun as it would take a bit of commitment to go no-brakes on the downhills. The smooth tarmac will be nice going uphill on reverse Skylines.

I only realized after the bridge that there was barbed wire. I was trying to remember if the previous fencing was already barbed wire or not. But it is not like this barbed wire is terrifying. IMO, much ado about nothing.

If one is allergic to barbed wire, there is always sheep camp trail. 

[Peter Colijn]

But did they leave the jump intact?

[Christine Ryan]

I hope so!!!

[djconnel]

I'm surprised Edward who just ran for the SFBC board didn't know where to find the 3-foot guideline on separation of bike paths from fences: CA Highway Design Manual Chapter 1000.  It's brief and well written but nobody seems to read it.

[Kurt Wallace Martin]

The problem is the standards don’t all hang out together in one guide, and they are a bit of a moving target in practice. But there’s not much excuse on this one.

[Maxence Nachury]

Jump is still there. They forgot to add berms though.

On Apr 13, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Peter Colijn <caff...@colijn.ca> wrote:

But did they leave the jump intact?

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Maxence Nachury <nac...@gmail.com> wrote:

The new tarmac is superb on the bike path. I found the beat-up tarmac more fun as it would take a bit of commitment to go no-brakes on the downhills. The smooth tarmac will be nice going uphill on reverse Skylines.

I only realized after the bridge that there was barbed wire. I was trying to remember if the previous fencing was already barbed wire or not. But it is not like this barbed wire is terrifying. IMO, much ado about nothing.

If one is allergic to barbed wire, there is always sheep camp trail. 

<fbk2NBP9x-cfFUyjPEvFvsM16eS3uGeK3tkDEtDZ55A-576x768.jpeg>

[murphstahoe]

"But it is not like this barbed wire is terrifying. IMO, much ado about nothing.

This is terrifying. Why? Because it underscores that Caltrans/Parks/etc... do not put the slightest amount of thought into what they are doing.
That results in badly placed bollards, and other "safety devices" which are anything but.

And this happened on a freaking BIKE PATH - it's not like they messed up a bike lane on some 4 lane road. They had one job.

This should be pushed back on simply for the educational value.

J

[Kurt Wallace Martin]

So… do we have a specific place/person at which to hurl abuse/helpful corrections?

k

[Jason Terk]

I sent an email to the San Mateo Parks Department (ParksandR...@smcgov.org) and the Director of Caltrans District 4 (Bijan....@dot.ca.gov):

 

Hello,

I had the opportunity, during my commute from San Francisco to my job in
Redwood City this morning, to ride my bicycle on the newly resurfaced
Ralston bike path (in the downhill direction, from Ralston Ave. to
Cañada Road). The new surface is smooth and a pleasure to ride on - a
vast improvement on the previous state of the path. Thank you for
improving this critical link in the route that many of us use for
recreation and travel on a regular basis.

I am writing because the resurfacing project included lining the path
with two barbed wire fences. These fences appear to be between 4 and 6
feet tall and are, at times, as close as 1 foot from the edge of the
asphalt path. I am concerned that the fences present a significant risk
for users of the path, especially bicyclists descending the hill (as I
was) from Ralston Ave. If a path user runs off of the improved surface
there is no room before they will run into the barbed wire which will
surely cause more injury than if the person involved fell on the ground.

Please consider changing the fence in two ways:

1) Set the fence back from the edge of the path - 3 to 6 feet of
clearance before hitting a fence seems like a reasonable minimum.

2) Use a material less likely to cause harm than barbed wire. 

Thank you,
-Jason Terk
San Francisco Resident

 

--

Jason Terk

ja...@goterkyourself.com

 

[Maxence Nachury]

It looks like your voice was heard. Two Park Rangers were removing the barbed wire on the lower portion of the path. They will be installing regular wire instead.

Thumbs up to the Park department. I never thought that an agency could be that responsive.

[Mark Kahn]

wow, that's awesome...nice job, Jason (and everyone else who took action)!  I rode it yesterday...thought the top part was fine but the lower portion was definitely tight (though not as bad as I was expecting).

[Ben Blizard]

Wow, that's really amazing responsiveness!

What can we do to reward/reinforce their behavior?

--

Ben Blizard
Voice: (650) 450-0037

[Lina Mårtensson]

Yay!!!

[Elizeu Santos-Neto]

Thanks to those involved in requesting this change! It's good to see a win for the cycling/commuters community sometimes.

[Ted Ketai]

I rode down the path for the first time today and I have to say the barbed wire was so much of a worse idea than I was originally thinking. I was picturing a 10-foot tall fence with barbed wire at the top of it and not the crash-level barbs they did install. I cannot imagine what they were thinking or what that fence is even supposed to accomplish, but I'm certainly glad they're fixing it. 

[djconnel]

I got a response to my email pointing out the 3-foot state guideline and was told the fences are being moved back to a 4-foot margin.   So wasted money and resources but things are set good in the end.

[Maxence Nachury]

Dan got the correct info: The fences are being moved back. BUT the barbed wire is staying. At least, that is what the work in progress looked like when I rode through on Friday.