LIGO's Gravitational Waves: Consider being nearby, like 1/3 light year

[Serg io]

what would be the effects ?

Huge gravatitional waves for years and years before the event

[Edward Prochak]

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 6:45:30 PM UTC-4, Serg io wrote:
> what would be the effects ?
>
> Huge gravatitional waves for years and years before the event

For a moment I was confused by the "before the event"

Unfortunately, I suspect no one would survive long enough to
witness the event. 8^(

Well, at least we can imagine what would happen.


Ed
"Speeding through the universe,
thinking is the best way to travel."

[Michael Moroney]

Edward Prochak <edpr...@gmail.com> writes:

>On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 6:45:30 PM UTC-4, Serg io wrote:
>> what would be the effects ?
>>
>> Huge gravatitional waves for years and years before the event

>For a moment I was confused by the "before the event"

>Unfortunately, I suspect no one would survive long enough to
>witness the event. 8^(

>Well, at least we can imagine what would happen.

There has to be a distance where one could be close enough to experience
the event (see, feel) but not so close as to be killed by it.

What would one experience there?

[Serg io]

I guess a wrinkle in space time would come like a single wave, and do
something to you. stretch and get thin ? expand and compress ?

if in a micro second, no problem, but if 1 second long, that could mess
stuff up.

any ideas ?

the two would spiral for years, and give off big gravity waves to nearby
objects, so they see waves comming at them, and the question is what do
these waves do the the planet, people, infrastructure. And that would
happen for years as the nuturon stars slowly approched each other.

[Edward Prochak]

Well a spiral collision will start with low amplitude at low frequency
gravity waves. As the spiral downward continues, the waves increase
in both intensity and frequency. That makes me think that anything
that is susceptible to a destructive resonance frequency will
likely see it some time during the process.

(Why am I being such a Debbie-Downer?)

So the question is will enough things see destructive resonance long
enough and with enough intensity as to reek world wide destruction?

Michael has a point:
is there a distance where the gravity waves would be intense
enough that you don't need LIGO resolution equipment to measure
the gravity, but weak enough that all is okay for the most part.

I don't have the skill to handle that calculation.
(Any Physics masters or doctoral candidates lurking here?
this may be a good research topic!)

Ed

[Serg io]

agree, kind of like moving the observation post 140 million miles closer
to those neuturon star collision.

or if Alpha CEntauri had two neutron stars colliding, what would be the
simulation on Earth ?

or on a planet in their system ?

come on Hollywood, + real computer simulations

"Intersteller" movie got a lot of things right.

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[1] [2]

[1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
[2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.

> what would be the effects ?
>
> Huge gravatitional waves for years and years before the event

Not that much, actually.

The maximum strain amplitude of GW170817 was “on the order of 10⁻²²” and the
source was ca. 40 Mpc away. [1]

The strain amplitude is reciprocal to the distance, so it should be at most

40 Mpc × 10⁻²²∕(1/3 ly) ≈ 3.914 × 10⁻¹⁴

at a distance of 1/3 ly.

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=(40+Mpc+*+10%5E-22)%2F(1%2F3+ly)>

For an average human, if the waves would hit them “in the face”, that would
be only a difference in height of at most

3.914 × 10⁻¹⁴ × 1.8 m ≈ 7.04 × 10⁻¹⁴ m ≈ 70.4 fm.

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=(40+Mpc+*+10%5E-22)%2F(1%2F3+ly)+*+1.8+m>

The diameter of a human blood cell is about 100 µm:

<https://www.google.com/search?q=size+of+cells>

That is about 1.4 billion times (short scale) the maximum spacetime strain
caused by those gravitational waves at this distance. I doubt you would
even have felt the waves passing through you. Much less so before the
merger.

The gravity of the neutron stars and the radiation emitted in the merger are
a whole different story at this distance, of course; although I think that
the radiation would be more of a problem than the gravity as the
gravitational acceleration imparted at this distance would still be
negligibly small: Calculating Newtonian for simplicity, it would only be
3.656 × 10⁻¹¹ m∕s².

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=gravitational+acceleration&rawformassumption=%7B%22FS%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%7B%22GravitationalAcceleration%22,
+%22g%22%7D%7D&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,
+%22GravitationalAcceleration%22,
+%22M%22%7D+-%3E%222.74+solar+masses%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,
+%22GravitationalAcceleration%22,
+%22h%22%7D+-%3E%220%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,
+%22GravitationalAcceleration%22,
+%22r%22%7D+-%3E%221%2F3+ly%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22C%22,
+%22gravitational+acceleration%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%22Formula%22%7D>

Even if you consider the first detection, GW150914, which had the largest
progenitor masses to date, two black holes of ca. 36 M⊙ and ca. 29 M⊙, the
peak strain was only 10⁻²¹ at ca. 410 Mpc distance [2] which corresponds to
4.012 × 10⁻¹² at 1∕3 ly and 7.22 nm peak strain for 1.8 m height. Again,
*tiny*.

You should have posted this in <news:sci.physics.relativity>.
X-Post & F’up2.


PointedEars
___________
[1]
<https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.119.161101#fulltext>
[2] <https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.061102>
--
A neutron walks into a bar and inquires how much a drink costs.
The bartender replies, "For you? No charge."

(from: WolframAlpha)

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

[X-Post & F’up2 <news:sci.physics.relativity>]

Serg io wrote in <news:sci.physics>:

> On 10/18/2017 11:37 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> There has to be a distance where one could be close enough to experience
>> the event (see, feel) but not so close as to be killed by it.
>>
>> What would one experience there?
>
> I guess a wrinkle in space time would come like a single wave,

_Spacetime_, and no.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave>

> and do something to you. stretch and get thin ? expand and compress ?

Objects get shortened and lengthened perpendicular to the propagation
direction of gravitational waves when the waves pass through them, and
most in the polarization direction:

.
/|
/ |
/ |
/ |
/ |
/ ^ _ |
/ : /| strain
| :/ |
source --)-)-)-)-)-)-)-|)-+-)-)-)-)-)-)--> propagation direction
||/: |
|' : /
| v /
| /
| /
| / __
|/ |PE
'

> if in a micro second, no problem, but if 1 second long, that could mess
> stuff up.

Yes, by *nanometers* *at most*, unless you get *really close* to such an
event (where it is not healthy to be anyway).

For example, for GW150914 with the two black holes of ca. 36 M⊙ and ca. 29
M⊙, you would have to get closer than 228'000 km in order to have something
done to you in height by GW on the diameter of a human blood cell (100 µm)
or more. [If you had come closer than 159.5 km – 1.5 Schwarzschild radii –,
where the strain would be on the order of centimeters or more, you would
have fallen into the larger one of the black holes, and if you stayed there,
you would have come closer than 274.6 km, you would have fallen into the
resulting black hole (62 M⊙) after the merger. Assuming they were/are not
spinning; they usually do.]


PointedEars
--
Q: Where are offenders sentenced for light crimes?
A: To a prism.

(from: WolframAlpha)

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Serg io wrote:

> On 10/19/2017 12:18 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
>> is there a distance where the gravity waves would be intense
>> enough that you don't need LIGO resolution equipment to measure
>> the gravity, but weak enough that all is okay for the most part.
>>
>> I don't have the skill to handle that calculation.
>> (Any Physics masters or doctoral candidates lurking here?
>> this may be a good research topic!)

As you can see, once you have a known source, the distance to it, and the
spacetime strain measured, it is simple arithmetic to calculate strains for
similar events and distances. Certainly no Master or Doctoral degree
required, except perhaps an *M*.D. to make sure of the “all is okay for the
most part” part.

> or if Alpha CEntauri had two neutron stars colliding, what would be the
> simulation on Earth ?

If you mean the _effect_ on Earth, negligibly small as α Cen is 4.39 ly away
from Earth, which is more than 13 times your 1/3 ly for which I have already
showed that it is tiny.

> or on a planet in their system ?

Do your own homework.


PointedEars
--
Q: Why is electricity so dangerous?
A: It doesn't conduct itself.

(from: WolframAlpha)

[Mahipal]

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 11:57:04 PM UTC-4, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
> ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> [1] [2]
>
> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.

So 'PointedEars' is part of your real name? Mom's side?

> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.

So RFC 5536 is obviously, practically, useless. QED.

<trim>

-- Mahipal=माहिपाल 7638=७६३८ pronounced "My Pal" or "Maple" Loops, S(y)rup, Wood.
IPMM! Enjo(y)… Salute… Cheers… Open your M I N D… Time it is Is IS 3PM somePlace.

[Serg io]

On 10/19/2017 10:57 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
> ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> [1] [2]
>
> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.

Polite but unsafe, unwise, and very insecure. the problem with real
name is one can google and find the persons real address, photos of the
front of his house, phone numbers, identify family members, photos they
have posted, birth date [Poor James McGinn] former addresses...

Additionally, from now on for years, when anyone does an internet search
on "James McGinn", they will run into his wacko posts. If he applies for
a job, first thing done is an internet search on their name, wackie
posts => no job. ...and connections to "friends" Look at the wacko
crack smoking dude call "DraftScience" who is McGinn's "friend"

Heads Up on Google. Google admits it sells your data to 3rd parties to
screen your emails, your searches, and your google drive contents. Also
when you "delete" something on Google, you are only obscuring your view
of that information, not deleting it, it is still there, intact and
searchable by google and 3rd parties. [Facebook does same through its api]

following link is a computer security show by Steve Gibson, he has been
on the internet for decades (over 600 shows there) very interesting !
https://twit.tv/shows/security-now

> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.

disagree. It is considered proper network protocol to use
"inv...@invalid.com" and is specifically recommend by many newsgroup
host sites, primarly to avoid spam bots that harvest email addys from
newsgroups. And to provide some security.

it is not considered abuse by RFC 5536

relevant RFC 5536

"The "posting-account" <parameter> identifies the source from which
that news server received the article, in a notation that can be
interpreted by the news server administrator. This notation can
include any information the administrator deems pertinent. In order
to limit the exposure of personal data, it SHOULD be given in a form
that cannot be interpreted by other sites. However, to make it
useful for rate limiting and *abuse* detection, two messages posted
from the same source SHOULD have the same value of "posting-account",
and two messages from different sources SHOULD have differing values
of "posting-account". The exact definition of "source" is left to
the discretion of the news server administrator."

[reber G=emc^2]

Imperial thinkers tell us gravity's force is the weakest of all.Hmmm There was the start of spacetime when it was the strongest.There was a time when it equaled all other forces.The universe of "NOW" its location,loication,location Trebert

[Edward Prochak]

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 11:57:04 PM UTC-4, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
> ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> [1] [2]
>
> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.

Some folks don't like the bots sucking up their email
address. I have watched folks doing variations of munged
email addresses for decades at this point. It's not a bit deal.

ed

[Edward Prochak]

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 11:57:04 PM UTC-4, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:

WOW. My thinking about this was totally wrong.
Thank you!

Thanks for the great analysis.
Very informative!

Ed

[Edward Prochak]

Thanks again. You are a gentleman and a true scholar.
Ed

[hanson]

<http://tinyurl.com/Glazier-the-loud-retarded-pig> alias
"reber G=emc^2" <herbert...@gmail.com> wrote
that Bert is now "demented" and in the process of now
also being "de-MINTED". But Glazier is way too stupid
>
to see that the 2 women SwineBert tries to con, are
out-conning him and they after Glazier's Van and after
Glazier's Money. And "THEY are on the Money", "WOW",
"Oh ya". "Go figure" as seen in
>
<http://tinyurl.com/Swine-Glazier-s-Undertaker> [1]
who is a GOPer that engineers Berts' pending demise
and she has a gruesome end in store for Glazier since
since she is after Bert's Van that she wants to convert
into a hearse with Glazier being the 1st stiff in it. [1]
>
And now that you, Glazier have told all that [1] to Sandy,
and bragged to her that you have stashed away & hidden
$100'000 cash in your Van, Sandy is not about to play
2nd fiddle for the GOPer Lady. Sandy schemoing and
conning YOU, stupid SwineBert, so that she can get her
greedy little hands onto your money.
"It's a pity", BUT "Sandy will be on the money".... just...
>
like in this case here that is in the News right now:
< https://apple.news/AH4vuyphZQDSUHIhmMDSGQw>
The Yiddiser shicksah Alice Legall, 46, stands accused
of swindling nearly half a million dollars from an elderly
patron who considered her a friend. Read the full story
>
>
Glazier, for your benefit, here are some details which
led you down this primrose path that YOU selected for
yourself, ... instead of you being save & sound & the
big shot in a Jewish retirement resort on the East Coast!
Duh!. "It's a pity". "Go figure" and here it is:
>
---------- start re-posts ---------
>
<http://tinyurl.com/Glazier-the-loud-retarded-pig> alias
"Herbert Glazier" <herbert...@gmail.com> lied as
he wrote about
"Sandy", which acc. to SwineBert, was 1st a cop, then
she was a 53 old safety monitor on Wal-Mart's Parking
lot, where Glazier illegally parked, and then Bert cried
when Sandy gave him the "cold shoulder" and told him
to get lost" and now the lying Swine Glazier says that
Sandy took a day off to be with the ugly PigBert. LOL
>
Glazier, the Jewish Jailbird kept on lying:
"Sandy and I Eat at the Anaheim Duck Park under a tree.
Split, a cooked chicken with the fixings(((( meaning the
mooch and cheap shit Bert conned her to pay for the
whole thing))) .Washed down with pink wine" no matter
that it's illegal to have/drink Alcohol in public parks.
>
Glazier, the Jewish Criminal kept on lying:
"Then we went holiday Pool" which is criminal trespassing,
illegal entry and or -use because you are not a registered
guest there.
>
Glazier, the stinking pig praised himself, saying:
"I lived in heavy air for most of my life.Now its light air.
Go figue" because now
Bert's OWN "book just came out called 'Chickenshit' "
with excerpts posted by & about
>
<http://tinyurl.com/Loudmouth-Glazier-8Feb2017> with
<http://tinyurl.com/SwineBert-s-WRONG-Predictions>
who is <http://tinyurl.com/The-Chosen-Graveyard-Vandal>
doing this <http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8MGOU-CQAEaZw4.jpg>,
as he waits for <http://tinyurl.com/Swine-Glazier-s-Undertaker>
but refuses <http://tinyurl.com/Herbert-Glazier-s-Reprieve> &
then <http://tinyurl.com/Jew-Swine-Glazier-cries> as seen
in his <http://tinyurl.com/Blog-of-2-fecal-kikes-Mar2017>
with <http://tinyurl.com/Swine-Glazier-s-REAL-intent> by
<http://tinyurl.com/Glazier-the-loud-retarded-pig> who said
"it's tricky", but "it fits" & "it's on the money". "Go Figure" as
seen in <http://tinyurl.com/Bert-s-Selfintroductn-Oct2017>
>
reber G=emc^2" <herbert...@gmail.com> wrote:
*** "I am a proud Jew with a Superiority complex &
*** an IQ of 122", and "I know how everything works."
*** "I park & bark in the dark & I do not wink since I stink".
*** "I feel very safe when I lie. I will lie till I die". Trebert
*** "Being Jewish I know this is so very true" -- Bert.
*** ___** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- asked Bert
and then he complained:
>
"I am having a problem parking my van over night here
in Anaheim,Hmmm. its on a private place.TreBert"
>
hanson wrote:
Well, Glazier old pal, that private parking place must
belong to the couple that you invited yesterday out
for a Maine Lobster dinner and then waited until THEY
paid, didn't you. Glazier, you are such a cheap mooch...
or...
Glazier, did you piss them off when you emptied your
bucket that you shit into, and poured it on their driveway
which is enough reason "Why you're not loved by all!"
>

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

You ( EdProchak ) replied ( to Thomas Lahn ):
> > Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
> > ^^[1]^^  ^^^^^[2]^^^^^^^^^^^
> > [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
> > [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.
> 
> Some folks don't like the bots sucking up their email address.
> I have watched folks doing variations of munged
> email addresses for decades at this point.  It's not a big deal.

In Lahn's mind, neither spam bots nor the web exist.
" From: Jeff-Relf.Me " is the right way to do it.

[sn❄wflake@gmail.c❄m]

>
>=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=n 2=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=17-1=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=-21, Jeff-Relf.Me @. <Jeff-Relf.Me@> wr=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=te:
>><PRE Style='F=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=nt-Family: =?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=CR A, m=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=n=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=space !imp=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=rtant;'>
>> Y=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=u ( EdPr=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=chak ) replied ( t=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= Th=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=mas Lahn ):
>>> > Serg i=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= <invalid@invalid.c=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=m> wr=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=te in <news:sci.physics>:

>>> > ^^[1]^^ ^^^^^[2]^^^^^^^^^^^

>>> > [1] It is c=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=nsidered p=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=lite t=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= p=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=st using =?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ne’s real name.
>>> > [2] This is netw=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=rk abuse; see als=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= RFC 5536.
>>>
>>> S=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=me f=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=lks d=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=n't like the b=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ts sucking up their email address.
>>> I have watched f=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=lks d=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ing variati=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ns =?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=f munged
>>> email addresses f=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=r decades at this p=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=int. It's n=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=t a big deal.
>>
>> In Lahn's mind, neither spam b=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ts n=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=r the web exist.
>> " Fr=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=m: Jeff-Relf.Me " is the right way t=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= d=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= it.
>
>Ummm, n=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=. The ".invalid" suffix is the right way t=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= d=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= it.
>
>https://t=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?==?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ls.ietf.=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=rg/html/rfc26=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=6
>
>And s=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=me=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ne p=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=sting t=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= Usenet, which is a plain text medium, using s=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=me
>kind =?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=f fucked up markup is in n=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= place t=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?= lecture any=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ne else ab=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=ut
>h=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=w Usenet sh=?UTF-8?B?4p2E?=uld be used.

I AGREE!

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Edward Prochak wrote:

[Quotation fixed; <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>]

> […] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:


>> Serg io <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in <news:sci.physics>:
>> ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> [1] [2]
>>
>> [1] It is considered polite to post using one’s real name.
>> [2] This is network abuse; see also RFC 5536.
>
> Some folks don't like the bots sucking up their email
> address. I have watched folks doing variations of munged
> email addresses for decades at this point. It's not a bit deal.

<http://www.interhack.net/pubs/munging-harmful/>


PointedEars

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Edward Prochak wrote:

> […] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> [Full quote]

<http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>

> Thanks again. You are a gentleman and a true scholar.

Thank you. I am just insatiably curious :)

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

[Please do not multi-post again; use *crossposts* with *Followup-To*.]

Serg io posted the same in two postings in different newsgroups:

> [old, long-refuted arguments about why it would be OK
> to post without real name and with fake address header field values]

See

<88750624....@PointedEars.de>

<news:88750624....@PointedEars.de>

<https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!search/messageid$3A88750624...@PointedEars.de>

for my follow-up.


F’up2 poster

PointedEars
--
«Nec fasces, nec opes, sola artis sceptra perennant.»
(“Neither high office nor power, only the scepters of science survive.”)

—Tycho Brahe, astronomer (1546-1601), inscription at Hven