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Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics?
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Pentcho Valev
Mar 4, 2016, 3:23:58 AM3/4/16
to
Unless one is insane, one cannot believe in quantum mechanics and at the same time hail LIGO's "discovery" of gravitational waves. Simply because if gravitational waves, a manifestation of space-time bending caused by matter, do exist, quantum mechanics is just wrong:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727721.200-rethinking-einstein-the-end-of-spacetime.html
"Rethinking Einstein: The end of space-time (...) The stumbling block lies with their conflicting views of space and time. As seen by quantum theory, space and time are a static backdrop against which particles move. In Einstein's theories, by contrast, not only are space and time inextricably linked, but the resulting space-time is moulded by the bodies within it. (...) Something has to give in this tussle between general relativity and quantum mechanics, and the smart money says that it's relativity that will be the loser."
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/08/05/science.aac6498
"In Einstein's general theory of relativity, time depends locally on gravity; in standard quantum theory, time is global - all clocks "tick" uniformly."
http://fqxi.org/community/articles/display/205
"If you'd asked Einstein, he would have told you that time is another dimension, much like the three dimensions of space. Together they knit together to create a spacetime fabric that pervades the universe. This notion of time as a dynamic, flexible dimension forms the basis of his immensely successful general theory of relativity, which explains how gravity manifests on cosmic scales as matter warps spacetime. On the other hand, however, the equally celebrated theory of quantum mechanics, which governs the nanoscale behavior of atoms and subatomic particles, says that time is unaffected by the presence of matter, serving as an absolute background reference clock against which motion can be measured."
Pentcho Valev
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727721.200-rethinking-einstein-the-end-of-spacetime.html
"Rethinking Einstein: The end of space-time (...) The stumbling block lies with their conflicting views of space and time. As seen by quantum theory, space and time are a static backdrop against which particles move. In Einstein's theories, by contrast, not only are space and time inextricably linked, but the resulting space-time is moulded by the bodies within it. (...) Something has to give in this tussle between general relativity and quantum mechanics, and the smart money says that it's relativity that will be the loser."
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/08/05/science.aac6498
"In Einstein's general theory of relativity, time depends locally on gravity; in standard quantum theory, time is global - all clocks "tick" uniformly."
http://fqxi.org/community/articles/display/205
"If you'd asked Einstein, he would have told you that time is another dimension, much like the three dimensions of space. Together they knit together to create a spacetime fabric that pervades the universe. This notion of time as a dynamic, flexible dimension forms the basis of his immensely successful general theory of relativity, which explains how gravity manifests on cosmic scales as matter warps spacetime. On the other hand, however, the equally celebrated theory of quantum mechanics, which governs the nanoscale behavior of atoms and subatomic particles, says that time is unaffected by the presence of matter, serving as an absolute background reference clock against which motion can be measured."
Pentcho Valev
Sam Wormley
Mar 4, 2016, 8:59:40 AM3/4/16
to
On 3/4/16 2:23 AM, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Unless one is insane, one cannot believe in quantum mechanics and at
> the same time hail LIGO's "discovery" of gravitational waves.
Insanity just might be the case.
> Unless one is insane, one cannot believe in quantum mechanics and at
> the same time hail LIGO's "discovery" of gravitational waves.
Mother nature appears to follow the rules of quantum mechanics *and*
relativity. The LIGO results do not contradict predictions of either
theory, but, in fact, supports both. QED
--
sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.
reber g=emc^2
Mar 4, 2016, 3:11:07 PM3/4/16
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benj
Mar 5, 2016, 1:16:34 AM3/5/16
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On 03/04/2016 03:11 PM, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> QM is #1 a particle theory.My theory on the source of gravity is a
> particle theory. Gravity is particles all the way down.I will post it
> when it gets close to the bottom line. I want all my theories to do
> that. I never fudge.I search only for reality.I get some help from
> Treb. TreBert
I find it very interesting that while HVAC constantly goes on and on
> QM is #1 a particle theory.My theory on the source of gravity is a
> particle theory. Gravity is particles all the way down.I will post it
> when it gets close to the bottom line. I want all my theories to do
> that. I never fudge.I search only for reality.I get some help from
> Treb. TreBert
about all the people he thinks "believe in ESP" without any evidence
whatsoever as to what they actually believe, yet here is his butt-buddy
Bert talking about getting ESP messages from his imaginary friend "Treb"
and there is not a peep from HVAC who apparently accepts that as "science".
Is HVAC really that messed up in the head?
HVAC
Mar 5, 2016, 1:44:43 AM3/5/16
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BJ quacked
---------------
Here in this post, BJ presents and displays his persecution complex. Even to the point of offering up Bert to be his sacrificial lamb
I find it very interesting that while HVAC constantly goes on and on
about all the people he thinks "believe in ESP"
<Snip>
about all the people he thinks "believe in ESP"
---------------
Here in this post, BJ presents and displays his persecution complex. Even to the point of offering up Bert to be his sacrificial lamb
Pentcho Valev
Mar 5, 2016, 2:16:31 AM3/5/16
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https://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/research/conferences/convergence/roundtable-discussion-questions/what-are-lessons-quantum
Perimeter Institute: "Quantum mechanics has one thing, time, which is absolute. But general relativity tells us that space and time are both dynamical so there is a big contradiction there. So the question is, can quantum gravity be formulated in a context where quantum mechanics still has absolute time? Or does time have to give. The answer, yes or no, is interesting. If the answer is no, then perhaps some experiment can probe whether or not time is absolute?"
The experiment is already a fact: Gravitational waves discovered by LIGO showed that "space and time are both dynamical" so quantum mechanics in its present version will have to be discarded. Unless... LIGO's discovery is a fraud.
Pentcho Valev
Perimeter Institute: "Quantum mechanics has one thing, time, which is absolute. But general relativity tells us that space and time are both dynamical so there is a big contradiction there. So the question is, can quantum gravity be formulated in a context where quantum mechanics still has absolute time? Or does time have to give. The answer, yes or no, is interesting. If the answer is no, then perhaps some experiment can probe whether or not time is absolute?"
The experiment is already a fact: Gravitational waves discovered by LIGO showed that "space and time are both dynamical" so quantum mechanics in its present version will have to be discarded. Unless... LIGO's discovery is a fraud.
Pentcho Valev
benj
Mar 5, 2016, 2:32:15 AM3/5/16
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and no action. He's just another Treeb. There is no boat. There is no
campaign for mayor. There is no daughter. There is no family. There is
only assisted living and boredom. At least Treeb is on his own in a
Walmart parking lot and is not anoymous. HVAC is the one who is
anonymous and paranoid. What is HVAC scared of? Boinker is scared of
trekies! (One apparently knocked on his door once) HVAC is scared of
"gook ghosts" (tm). If I had his record with Satan, I'd be scared too.
HVAC
Mar 5, 2016, 8:57:02 AM3/5/16
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BJ quacked
BJ, no one is persecuting you. That's the point. Your delusional paranoia has run wild. It seems that anyone who disagrees with your insane and kooky beliefs in ghosts and ESP is and MUST BE secret government disinformation agents, sent into newsgroups in order to squash the 'truth'.
Now if you don't think that is a persecution complex, I don't know what to say. Perhaps you could ask some of your fellow travelers here like John or Maple Lips. I'm sure they will give you a satisfactory answer.
And please allow me to categorically deny currently working for any known government agency or organization
>
> Here in this post, BJ presents and displays his persecution complex. Even to the point of offering up Bert to be his sacrificial lamb
>
And just who is persecuting me? HVAC?
----------------
> Here in this post, BJ presents and displays his persecution complex. Even to the point of offering up Bert to be his sacrificial lamb
>
And just who is persecuting me? HVAC?
BJ, no one is persecuting you. That's the point. Your delusional paranoia has run wild. It seems that anyone who disagrees with your insane and kooky beliefs in ghosts and ESP is and MUST BE secret government disinformation agents, sent into newsgroups in order to squash the 'truth'.
Now if you don't think that is a persecution complex, I don't know what to say. Perhaps you could ask some of your fellow travelers here like John or Maple Lips. I'm sure they will give you a satisfactory answer.
And please allow me to categorically deny currently working for any known government agency or organization
john
Mar 5, 2016, 9:16:59 AM3/5/16
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Then why, HVAC, do you
continually post about BJ?
continually post about BJ?
HVAC
Mar 5, 2016, 11:39:24 AM3/5/16
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john
Because I still hold out hope for BJ. The shame he feels regarding his belief in ghosts is a GOOD thing. It shows that it's not too late for him. The shame he feels is the analytical side of his brain trying to beat down the reptilian part. It's the battle between logic and superstition. By creating this shame, I have made a chink in his kook armor. He had begun to doubt his own beliefs and superstitions.
This is a good thing and I will not stop trying to illuminate the dark recesses of his mind. You're welcome BTW.
Now, as regards YOU, John... Well, I think that for you it's too late.
You have adopted a new age way of thinking which actually works for you. That's fine. You have no way of affecting anything in my world, so you can hold any crazy ideas you want. You're wrong of course, but who cares? You honestly don't know enough about any branch of science to make a cogent argument and so I look upon you as one would look upon the feeble minded.
As always, no offense is intended
Then why, HVAC, do you
continually post about BJ?
--------------
continually post about BJ?
Because I still hold out hope for BJ. The shame he feels regarding his belief in ghosts is a GOOD thing. It shows that it's not too late for him. The shame he feels is the analytical side of his brain trying to beat down the reptilian part. It's the battle between logic and superstition. By creating this shame, I have made a chink in his kook armor. He had begun to doubt his own beliefs and superstitions.
This is a good thing and I will not stop trying to illuminate the dark recesses of his mind. You're welcome BTW.
Now, as regards YOU, John... Well, I think that for you it's too late.
You have adopted a new age way of thinking which actually works for you. That's fine. You have no way of affecting anything in my world, so you can hold any crazy ideas you want. You're wrong of course, but who cares? You honestly don't know enough about any branch of science to make a cogent argument and so I look upon you as one would look upon the feeble minded.
As always, no offense is intended
john
Mar 5, 2016, 11:48:24 AM3/5/16
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How can you see anything with your
head THAT far up your ass?
I call BS
head THAT far up your ass?
I call BS
HVAC
Mar 5, 2016, 12:01:38 PM3/5/16
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John
You asked a question, I answered it.
How can you see anything with your
head THAT far up your ass?
I call BS
--------------
head THAT far up your ass?
I call BS
You asked a question, I answered it.
john
Mar 5, 2016, 12:23:04 PM3/5/16
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You're hallucinating, HVAC.
You have no light left, and
the darkness is giving you
delusions.
I really don't know how we can save you
You have no light left, and
the darkness is giving you
delusions.
I really don't know how we can save you
benj
Mar 5, 2016, 2:25:53 PM3/5/16
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That is your lie and fantasy as usual.
However, the fact that "everyone" isn't doesn't mean none are. For
example you are (or were). The government has been caught doing this in
the past which makes me reasonable and you a liar.
We still want to hear about those "unknown" agencies, cutiepie.
benj
Mar 5, 2016, 2:33:27 PM3/5/16
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On 03/05/2016 11:39 AM, HVAC wrote:
> john Then why, HVAC, do you continually post about BJ?
> --------------
>
> Because I still hold out hope for BJ. The shame he feels regarding
> his belief in ghosts is a GOOD thing. It shows that it's not too late
> for him. The shame he feels is the analytical side of his brain
> trying to beat down the reptilian part. It's the battle between logic
> and superstition. By creating this shame, I have made a chink in his
> kook armor. He had begun to doubt his own beliefs and superstitions.
I have never seen a ghost. I've never stated I "believe" in them. Only
> john Then why, HVAC, do you continually post about BJ?
> --------------
>
> Because I still hold out hope for BJ. The shame he feels regarding
> his belief in ghosts is a GOOD thing. It shows that it's not too late
> for him. The shame he feels is the analytical side of his brain
> trying to beat down the reptilian part. It's the battle between logic
> and superstition. By creating this shame, I have made a chink in his
> kook armor. He had begun to doubt his own beliefs and superstitions.
pseduoscience is about "belief". That is HVAC's department. But HVAC has
admitted right here he believes in them! It's pretty clear who is
ashamed and it's not me.
> This is a good thing and I will not stop trying to illuminate the
> dark recesses of his mind. You're welcome BTW.
> Now, as regards YOU, John... Well, I think that for you it's too
> late. You have adopted a new age way of thinking which actually works
> for you. That's fine. You have no way of affecting anything in my
> world, so you can hold any crazy ideas you want. You're wrong of
> course, but who cares? You honestly don't know enough about any
> branch of science to make a cogent argument and so I look upon you as
> one would look upon the feeble minded.
He's lonely and bored and the cute assistants won't do the sexy things
he keeps asking for. So he whips out his...phone and posts here. Capisce?
> As always, no offense is intended
said. HVAC won't talk about Tradecraft but I will.
benj
Mar 5, 2016, 2:40:45 PM3/5/16
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Expect no response from HVAC. He always runs and hides when going gets
tough. His "fight" is all in his mouth.
benj
Mar 5, 2016, 2:44:15 PM3/5/16
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truly lost so he gets his kicks trying to lead others astray.
Tell him again that ESP, Lasers, and Lightning actually are real. But I
doubt it will do any good.
Pentcho Valev
Mar 6, 2016, 6:35:13 AM3/6/16
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The LIGO system is fraudulent by design:
http://beforeitsnews.com/space/2016/02/gravitational-wave-dicosvery-fraud-or-real-scientists-leave-device-running-unattended-as-they-head-to-hotel-2496320.html
"The LIGO team includes a small group of people whose job is to create blind injections—bogus evidence of a gravitational wave—as a way of keeping the scientists on their toes. Although everyone knew who the four people in that group were, “we didn’t know what, when, or whether,” Gabriela González, the collaboration’s spokeswoman, said. During Initial LIGO’s final run, in 2010, the detectors picked up what appeared to be a strong signal. The scientists analyzed it intensively for six months, concluding that it was a gravitational wave from somewhere in the constellation of Canis Major. Just before they submitted their results for publication, however, they learned that the signal was a fake. This time through, the blind-injection group swore that they had nothing to do with the signal. Marco Drago thought that their denials might also be part of the test, but Reitze, himself a member of the quartet, had a different concern. “My worry was—and you can file this under the fact that we are just paranoid cautious about making a false claim—could somebody have done this maliciously?” he said. “Could somebody have somehow faked a signal in our detector that we didn’t know about?” Reitze, Weiss, González, and a handful of others considered who, if anyone, was familiar enough with both the apparatus and the algorithms to have spoofed the system and covered his or her tracks. There were only four candidates, and none of them had a plausible motive."
The Nobel prize was not a motive? The 2010 event was a dress rehearsal; the premiere took place recently:
http://motls.blogspot.bg/2016/02/ligo-journal-servers-behind-scenes.html
Luboš Motl: " On September 9th, the LIGO folks were already convinced that they would discover the waves soon. Some of them were thinking what they would buy for the Nobel prize and all of them had to make an online vote about the journal where the discovery should be published. It has to be Physical Review Letters because PRL (published by the APS) is the best journal for the Nobel-prize-caliber papers, the LIGO members decided. Five days later, Advanced LIGO made the discovery. Four more days later, as you know, they officially started Advanced LIGO. ;-) "
Pentcho Valev
http://beforeitsnews.com/space/2016/02/gravitational-wave-dicosvery-fraud-or-real-scientists-leave-device-running-unattended-as-they-head-to-hotel-2496320.html
"The LIGO team includes a small group of people whose job is to create blind injections—bogus evidence of a gravitational wave—as a way of keeping the scientists on their toes. Although everyone knew who the four people in that group were, “we didn’t know what, when, or whether,” Gabriela González, the collaboration’s spokeswoman, said. During Initial LIGO’s final run, in 2010, the detectors picked up what appeared to be a strong signal. The scientists analyzed it intensively for six months, concluding that it was a gravitational wave from somewhere in the constellation of Canis Major. Just before they submitted their results for publication, however, they learned that the signal was a fake. This time through, the blind-injection group swore that they had nothing to do with the signal. Marco Drago thought that their denials might also be part of the test, but Reitze, himself a member of the quartet, had a different concern. “My worry was—and you can file this under the fact that we are just paranoid cautious about making a false claim—could somebody have done this maliciously?” he said. “Could somebody have somehow faked a signal in our detector that we didn’t know about?” Reitze, Weiss, González, and a handful of others considered who, if anyone, was familiar enough with both the apparatus and the algorithms to have spoofed the system and covered his or her tracks. There were only four candidates, and none of them had a plausible motive."
The Nobel prize was not a motive? The 2010 event was a dress rehearsal; the premiere took place recently:
http://motls.blogspot.bg/2016/02/ligo-journal-servers-behind-scenes.html
Luboš Motl: " On September 9th, the LIGO folks were already convinced that they would discover the waves soon. Some of them were thinking what they would buy for the Nobel prize and all of them had to make an online vote about the journal where the discovery should be published. It has to be Physical Review Letters because PRL (published by the APS) is the best journal for the Nobel-prize-caliber papers, the LIGO members decided. Five days later, Advanced LIGO made the discovery. Four more days later, as you know, they officially started Advanced LIGO. ;-) "
Pentcho Valev
HVAC
Mar 6, 2016, 10:04:01 AM3/6/16
to
BJ quacked
"We"?
We still want to hear about those "unknown" agencies, cutiepie.
----------
"We"?
HVAC
Mar 6, 2016, 10:04:07 AM3/6/16
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john
--------------
"We"?
Why do kooks like BJ and John call upon mythical people to join them in their battle against a reasoned argument?
Are they that weak?
"We"?
Why do kooks like BJ and John call upon mythical people to join them in their battle against a reasoned argument?
Are they that weak?
HVAC
Mar 6, 2016, 10:06:38 AM3/6/16
to
BJ quacked
I have never seen a ghost. I've stated I "believe" in them.
-------------
Exactly
I have never seen a ghost. I've stated I "believe" in them.
-------------
Exactly
HVAC
Mar 6, 2016, 10:11:16 AM3/6/16
to
BJ quacked-
Religious freaks are so amusing!
In my best Dick Dastardly voice I say, "Nyuh uh uh!". As Mutley snickers
john wrote:
> You're hallucinating, HVAC.
> You have no light left, and
> the darkness is giving you
> delusions.
> I really don't know how we can save you
>
Everyone gets to choose, John, and HVAC has made his choice. He is now
truly lost so he gets his kicks trying to lead others astray.
-------------
> You're hallucinating, HVAC.
> You have no light left, and
> the darkness is giving you
> delusions.
> I really don't know how we can save you
>
Everyone gets to choose, John, and HVAC has made his choice. He is now
truly lost so he gets his kicks trying to lead others astray.
Religious freaks are so amusing!
In my best Dick Dastardly voice I say, "Nyuh uh uh!". As Mutley snickers
john
Mar 6, 2016, 10:12:22 AM3/6/16
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I dunno HVAC-
do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
Do you believe that electrons use NO ENERGY
when in an orbital?
Do you believe that steel buildings just
fall down and disintegrate when impacted and
set on fire?
You're the KOOK, in my opinion.
No offense, of course, but are you potty-trained?
do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
Do you believe that electrons use NO ENERGY
when in an orbital?
Do you believe that steel buildings just
fall down and disintegrate when impacted and
set on fire?
You're the KOOK, in my opinion.
No offense, of course, but are you potty-trained?
john
Mar 6, 2016, 10:19:36 AM3/6/16
to
BJ said
Everyone gets to choose, John, and HVAC has made his choice. He is now
truly lost so he gets his kicks trying to lead others astray. "
Yes, BJ, it is truly sad.
He's lost, so he thinks that's all there is!
OMG!!!
Everyone gets to choose, John, and HVAC has made his choice. He is now
truly lost so he gets his kicks trying to lead others astray. "
He's lost, so he thinks that's all there is!
OMG!!!
HVAC
Mar 6, 2016, 10:32:46 AM3/6/16
to
10:12 AMjohn
I dunno HVAC-
do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
-----------
do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
I think your problem is that you do not understand what 'volume' means in this context.
Do you believe that electrons use NO ENERGY
when in an orbital?
The reasons electrons remain in their probability ascribed orbitals
is far too complex a topic to discuss with a layperson such as yourself.
Do you believe that steel buildings just
fall down and disintegrate when impacted and set on fire?
Structural and mechanical systems follow rigid paths when acted upon by outside forces. There is no mystery.
You're the KOOK, in my opinion.
No offense, of course, but are you potty-trained?
John, don't resort to ad hominems.
Leave that to the experts... Me
HVAC
Mar 6, 2016, 10:42:48 AM3/6/16
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John said
"All there is"?
The universe and everything in it is "all there is". I have been privileged to be born into a universe of almost limitless natural beauty and complexity... Why would anyone not be satisfied with that? I truly don't get it.
To me it is the very height of hubris to believe that there is any existence beyond the physical world. It is the very height of arrogance to want more than one bite of the apple.
This is your life. Period. Make the best of it. Do acts of kindness without ANY hope of reward. Don't do bad things... Without fear of extra worldly punishments.
This is how a gentleman should live his life
Yes, BJ, it is truly sad.
He's lost, so he thinks that's all there is!
OMG!!!
------------
He's lost, so he thinks that's all there is!
OMG!!!
"All there is"?
The universe and everything in it is "all there is". I have been privileged to be born into a universe of almost limitless natural beauty and complexity... Why would anyone not be satisfied with that? I truly don't get it.
To me it is the very height of hubris to believe that there is any existence beyond the physical world. It is the very height of arrogance to want more than one bite of the apple.
This is your life. Period. Make the best of it. Do acts of kindness without ANY hope of reward. Don't do bad things... Without fear of extra worldly punishments.
This is how a gentleman should live his life
benj
Mar 7, 2016, 1:08:11 AM3/7/16
to
Your drool cup is full again.
benj
Mar 7, 2016, 1:11:27 AM3/7/16
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here at sci.physics Harlow! Don't you ever deign to acknowledge all your
admirers who worship the ground your unknown agency feet walk upon,
Harlow? Yes, I'm talking about WE! BOTH of us!
benj
Mar 7, 2016, 1:13:28 AM3/7/16
to
aren't mythical Harlow. All the whistling past the graveyard in the
world won't save your atheist ass now!
benj
Mar 7, 2016, 1:22:43 AM3/7/16
to
On 03/06/2016 10:32 AM, HVAC wrote:
>
> 10:12 AMjohn
> I dunno HVAC-
> do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
> -----------
>
> I think your problem is that you do not understand what 'volume' means in this context.
>
>
> Do you believe that electrons use NO ENERGY
> when in an orbital?
John to HVAC words only mean what he SAYS they mean. In fact to him
>
> 10:12 AMjohn
> I dunno HVAC-
> do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
> -----------
>
> I think your problem is that you do not understand what 'volume' means in this context.
>
>
> Do you believe that electrons use NO ENERGY
> when in an orbital?
words can been opposite mutually exclusive things to him at the same
time. That is the power of a great fantasy life.
Things with no volume or of infinite extent make perfect sense to HVAC
as do ghosts and tinker bell.
> --------------
>
> The reasons electrons remain in their probability ascribed orbitals
> is far too complex a topic to discuss with a layperson such as yourself.
>
>
> Do you believe that steel buildings just
> fall down and disintegrate when impacted and set on fire?
You believe anything Bushites tell you.
> -------------
>
> Structural and mechanical systems follow rigid paths when acted upon by outside forces. There is no mystery.
>
>
>
> You're the KOOK, in my opinion.
> No offense, of course, but are you potty-trained?
> --------------
>
> John, don't resort to ad hominems.
>
> Leave that to the experts... Me
Odd Bodkin
Mar 7, 2016, 9:40:19 AM3/7/16
to
On 3/6/2016 9:12 AM, john wrote:
> I dunno HVAC-
> do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
Yes, because of experimental confirmation of theories that involve them.
> I dunno HVAC-
> do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
> Do you believe that electrons use NO ENERGY
> when in an orbital?
about 1600. See Galileo. Also see experimental confirmation.
> Do you believe that steel buildings just
> fall down and disintegrate when impacted and
> set on fire?
> You're the KOOK, in my opinion.
> No offense, of course, but are you potty-trained?
>
your head, REGARDLESS OF EXPERIMENTAL CONFIRMATION. In your scheme of
things, if something experimental is surprising and you thought such a
thing would be impossible, then it is STILL impossible and your mind
just rejects the evidence. It doesn't seem to occur to you that your
mind might be WRONG.
--
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
HVAC
Mar 7, 2016, 10:17:48 AM3/7/16
to
BJ quacked
> I have never seen a ghost. I've stated I "believe" in them.
> -------------
>
> Exactly
I was misquoted.
-------------
> I have never seen a ghost. I've stated I "believe" in them.
> -------------
>
> Exactly
I was misquoted.
Understandable. It happens to the best of us from time to time. Feel free to take this opportunity to right the wrong. Lay out in clear words your opinion on what happens after death.
PS- I already know you won't. You're ashamed of your own beliefs.
You'll duck and dodge any questions that make you uncomfortable.
I cannot empathize with this. If any of my beliefs were upended by better observations or better facts, I would heave them out the door like an overstayed houseguest
benj
Mar 7, 2016, 12:43:35 PM3/7/16
to
On 03/07/2016 10:17 AM, HVAC farted:
> BJ was incorrectly quoted as saying:
You: Believe in Persistence of Consciousness which is to say ghosts.
Me: Have never seen a ghost nor ghost phenomena (cold rooms, being
slimed etc.) but find certain observations suggestive of persistence of
consciousness, but certainly am not certain that it is irrefutably true.
Hence do not "believe" in it.
You: just make up lies about what everyone else believes including
misquoting them. Say facts will change your opinion, but in truth only
thing that changes your opinion are not facts but only when your bosses
tell you to start spreading a new line of lies. You ignore and refuse to
even read any actual facts. You are a good little lackey.
Me: Go with experiment and observations. That is science. My business
card actually has printing on it.
> BJ was incorrectly quoted as saying:
Me: Have never seen a ghost nor ghost phenomena (cold rooms, being
slimed etc.) but find certain observations suggestive of persistence of
consciousness, but certainly am not certain that it is irrefutably true.
Hence do not "believe" in it.
You: just make up lies about what everyone else believes including
misquoting them. Say facts will change your opinion, but in truth only
thing that changes your opinion are not facts but only when your bosses
tell you to start spreading a new line of lies. You ignore and refuse to
even read any actual facts. You are a good little lackey.
Me: Go with experiment and observations. That is science. My business
card actually has printing on it.
john
Mar 7, 2016, 1:04:06 PM3/7/16
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Boyd Bushman said he believes
in data before theory.
HVAC and Odd reject millions of
observations- many by experienced pilots-
in favor of theory.
Two retards for the price of one
in data before theory.
HVAC and Odd reject millions of
observations- many by experienced pilots-
in favor of theory.
Two retards for the price of one
HVAC
Mar 7, 2016, 1:56:58 PM3/7/16
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BJ quacked
OK good. Now we're making progress.
I bet it feels good to be open and honest like me.
PS- Wtf is 'being slimed'?
Is that a ghost thing?
Me: Have never seen a ghost nor ghost phenomena (cold rooms, being
slimed etc.) but find certain observations suggestive of persistence of consciousness
-----------
slimed etc.) but find certain observations suggestive of persistence of consciousness
OK good. Now we're making progress.
I bet it feels good to be open and honest like me.
PS- Wtf is 'being slimed'?
Is that a ghost thing?
Odd Bodkin
Mar 7, 2016, 2:39:05 PM3/7/16
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On 3/7/2016 12:04 PM, john wrote:
> Boyd Bushman said he believes
> in data before theory.
Yup. Which makes it all the more interesting that he would hold up a
> Boyd Bushman said he believes
> in data before theory.
photo of a toy that can be found at Wal-Mart and claim that it is a
picture given to him of an alien. Not one that he had taken himself. A
picture of what he was TOLD was an alien, taken by an alien.
So one has to wonder what broke in Boyd Bushman.
> HVAC and Odd reject millions of
> observations- many by experienced pilots-
> in favor of theory.
>
> Two retards for the price of one
>
john
Mar 7, 2016, 3:00:04 PM3/7/16
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Yes, millions, Odd.
Get your head out of your ass.
UFOs were seen over Mrxico City for
weeks.
Get your head out of your ass.
How many people in just Mexico City?
Get your head out of your ass.
Odd!!
Get your head out of your ass.
UFOs were seen over Mrxico City for
weeks.
Get your head out of your ass.
How many people in just Mexico City?
Get your head out of your ass.
Odd!!
Odd Bodkin
Mar 7, 2016, 3:28:49 PM3/7/16
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On 3/7/2016 1:59 PM, john wrote:
> Yes, millions, Odd.
> Get your head out of your ass.
> UFOs were seen over Mrxico City for
> weeks.
Where is the documentation of millions of reports?
> Yes, millions, Odd.
> Get your head out of your ass.
> UFOs were seen over Mrxico City for
> weeks.
Don't just pull it out of your ass and say, there are millions of people
in Mexico City, and they all must have seen it, so there must be
millions of reports. Where are the millions of reports?
This is just like you seeing Boyd Burgerflipper having the title of
Senior Scientist and you concluding that he was the head scientist of
Area 51 because you don't know what the title Senior Scientist means.
STOP MAKING SHIT UP.
> Get your head out of your ass.
> How many people in just Mexico City?
> Get your head out of your ass.
> Odd!!
>
john
Mar 7, 2016, 4:08:08 PM3/7/16
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Odd
Shut up, fucktard.
You are an idiot
Shut up, fucktard.
You are an idiot
benj
Mar 7, 2016, 6:42:50 PM3/7/16
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On 03/07/2016 02:39 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 3/7/2016 12:04 PM, john wrote:
>> Boyd Bushman said he believes
>> in data before theory.
>
> Yup. Which makes it all the more interesting that he would hold up a
> photo of a toy that can be found at Wal-Mart and claim that it is a
> picture given to him of an alien. Not one that he had taken himself. A
> picture of what he was TOLD was an alien, taken by an alien.
>
> So one has to wonder what broke in Boyd Bushman.
>
>> HVAC and Odd reject millions of
>> observations- many by experienced pilots-
>> in favor of theory.
>
> Millions? Millions?
With the full force and might of the US government covering up all data
> On 3/7/2016 12:04 PM, john wrote:
>> Boyd Bushman said he believes
>> in data before theory.
>
> Yup. Which makes it all the more interesting that he would hold up a
> photo of a toy that can be found at Wal-Mart and claim that it is a
> picture given to him of an alien. Not one that he had taken himself. A
> picture of what he was TOLD was an alien, taken by an alien.
>
> So one has to wonder what broke in Boyd Bushman.
>
>> HVAC and Odd reject millions of
>> observations- many by experienced pilots-
>> in favor of theory.
>
> Millions? Millions?
and observations for nearly a century (This is proven beyond any doubt)
just how much data do you think there might be hidden there?
The very fact that Boyd Bushman had NOT been covered up is a big hint
that his claims are bogus. Hell, he may well work for HVAC!
HVAC
Mar 7, 2016, 6:52:25 PM3/7/16
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Bj quacked
Persecution complex and paranoia noted
With the full force and might of the US government covering up all data
and observations for nearly a century (This is proven beyond any doubt)
just how much data do you think there might be hidden there?
The very fact that Boyd Bushman had NOT been covered up is a big hint
that his claims are bogus. Hell, he may well work for HVAC!
-------------
and observations for nearly a century (This is proven beyond any doubt)
just how much data do you think there might be hidden there?
The very fact that Boyd Bushman had NOT been covered up is a big hint
that his claims are bogus. Hell, he may well work for HVAC!
Persecution complex and paranoia noted
john
Mar 7, 2016, 7:35:22 PM3/7/16
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Odd and HVAC are so divorced from reality
that it is stunningly spectacular.
Here. Here's another "hoax" from Romania.
https://www.facebook.com/1708701749373074/videos/1715121798731069/
that it is stunningly spectacular.
Here. Here's another "hoax" from Romania.
https://www.facebook.com/1708701749373074/videos/1715121798731069/
benj
Mar 8, 2016, 1:09:47 AM3/8/16
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benj
Mar 8, 2016, 1:17:07 AM3/8/16
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sure HVAC can tell us.
I love it when someone reports a UFO 50 ft in diameter and metallic and
the "official" explanation is he mistook Venus for a UFO. Of course,
what you need to know and nobody notices is that UFOs at a distance DO
look like Venus! Which shows the officials know more than they are
letting on.
HVAC
Mar 8, 2016, 7:05:32 AM3/8/16
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BJ quacked
Well, of course there are many natural phenomena that aren't fully understood.
I love it when someone reports a UFO 50 ft in diameter and metallic and
the "official" explanation is he mistook Venus for a UFO. Of course,
what you need to know and nobody notices is that UFOs at a distance DO
look like Venus! Which shows the officials know more than they are
letting on.
--------------
Anecdotal evidence is worth nothing in science. If you had ANY science training you'd know that.
I want a hunk of alien metal or ANYTHING which can be examined, then sent to another lab where THEY can examine it.
Humans are easily fooled, just look how you and John have been fooled.
Humans lie. Human memory is subject to error. Humans are unreliable.
The bottom line is that there are NO aliens visiting the earth. Possibly we are the only intelligent, technological civilization in the universe.
You mad BJ?
Obviously they mistook Venus for UFOs! Or maybe it was swamp gas. I"m sure HVAC can tell us.
------------
Well, of course there are many natural phenomena that aren't fully understood.
I love it when someone reports a UFO 50 ft in diameter and metallic and
the "official" explanation is he mistook Venus for a UFO. Of course,
what you need to know and nobody notices is that UFOs at a distance DO
look like Venus! Which shows the officials know more than they are
letting on.
Anecdotal evidence is worth nothing in science. If you had ANY science training you'd know that.
I want a hunk of alien metal or ANYTHING which can be examined, then sent to another lab where THEY can examine it.
Humans are easily fooled, just look how you and John have been fooled.
Humans lie. Human memory is subject to error. Humans are unreliable.
The bottom line is that there are NO aliens visiting the earth. Possibly we are the only intelligent, technological civilization in the universe.
You mad BJ?
Odd Bodkin
Mar 8, 2016, 8:43:05 AM3/8/16
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Last year there was a UFO sighted in NYC in September. There were a
number of 911 calls. Do you know how many calls? Of course you do. There
are 8.4 million people in NYC, so there were 8.4 million reports.
Oh whoops. No.
Seven 911 calls.
About a dozen calls to newspapers and TV stations.
So let's say 20.
Or let's do what John does and say millions.
Does it make you feel better to "fill in the blanks", John?
john
Mar 8, 2016, 8:56:51 AM3/8/16
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Odd
Oh- people have to CALL someone?
Who do they call?
How are the calls tallied?
If I see a UFO and DONT call, does that
mean there was no UFO?
Oh- people have to CALL someone?
Who do they call?
How are the calls tallied?
If I see a UFO and DONT call, does that
mean there was no UFO?
HVAC
Mar 8, 2016, 9:06:58 AM3/8/16
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John
KOOKBUSTERS!
"I ain't afraid of no kook"
Odd
Oh- people have to CALL someone?
Who do they call?
------------
Oh- people have to CALL someone?
Who do they call?
KOOKBUSTERS!
"I ain't afraid of no kook"
john
Mar 8, 2016, 9:32:01 AM3/8/16
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In 2015, there were 8000 reports by March.
Look it up.
Now, if 1 in 100 actually REPORTED what they
saw, there were 300,000 sightings in 2015, alone.
So- 10 years = 3 million.
How many did I say?
Look it up.
Now, if 1 in 100 actually REPORTED what they
saw, there were 300,000 sightings in 2015, alone.
So- 10 years = 3 million.
How many did I say?
HVAC
Mar 8, 2016, 9:51:51 AM3/8/16
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ohn
-------------
Please list a citation. I don't believe you
Please list a citation. I don't believe you
HVAC
Mar 8, 2016, 9:51:53 AM3/8/16
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ohn
john
Mar 8, 2016, 10:16:45 AM3/8/16
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HVAC
Google "how many UFO sightings have
there been this year"
Google is your friend, Harlow
"1K Shares.
There have been 1,177 UFO sightings reported to the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC) so far this year, 353 of them in March, according to a recent announcement.Apr 2, 2015"
Google "how many UFO sightings have
there been this year"
Google is your friend, Harlow
"1K Shares.
There have been 1,177 UFO sightings reported to the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC) so far this year, 353 of them in March, according to a recent announcement.Apr 2, 2015"
john
Mar 8, 2016, 10:19:09 AM3/8/16
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Sorry
2000 reports by March 2015
8000 per year
If 1 in a 100 report, 800,000 last year alone
2000 reports by March 2015
8000 per year
If 1 in a 100 report, 800,000 last year alone
Odd Bodkin
Mar 8, 2016, 10:33:49 AM3/8/16
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millions of people who DIDN'T call is based on what, exactly?
Oh, I get it.
"Because those few called, it MUST have happened. And because it MUST
have happened, then millions of people MUST have seen it. And because
millions of people saw it, then it's an absolute certainty that it
happened. Nobody can dispute millions of eye witnesses."
Really, John? Really???
Odd Bodkin
Mar 8, 2016, 10:46:58 AM3/8/16
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On 3/8/2016 8:31 AM, john wrote:
> In 2015, there were 8000 reports by March.
> Look it up.
> Now, if 1 in 100 actually REPORTED what they
> saw, there were 300,000 sightings in 2015, alone.
But 1 in 100 didn't report. Had this number been right, then there would
> In 2015, there were 8000 reports by March.
> Look it up.
> Now, if 1 in 100 actually REPORTED what they
> saw, there were 300,000 sightings in 2015, alone.
have been 840,000 reports from the September 2015 NYC reported UFO.
There weren't. There were 20 max. So instead of 1 in 100, that's 1 in
42,000. And you're presuming that 41,999 DID see it but didn't report
it, which you can't possibly know.
>
> So- 10 years = 3 million.
> How many did I say?
>
Jeez, John.
HVAC
Mar 8, 2016, 10:48:42 AM3/8/16
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john
Request denied.
John just so you'll know, a UFO report is worth absolutely zero as evidence.
I will believe anything so long as there is evidence to support it.
However, the more outrageous the claim, the more outrageous the evidence must be. Note that some old, fat guy with a picture of a toy alien and that alien's ghost do not qualify unless your name is John or BJ.
The fact that you two space cadets even buy into that story for a minute would be enough to deny you a security clearance
HVAC
Google "how many UFO sightings have
there been this year"
------------
Google "how many UFO sightings have
there been this year"
Request denied.
John just so you'll know, a UFO report is worth absolutely zero as evidence.
I will believe anything so long as there is evidence to support it.
However, the more outrageous the claim, the more outrageous the evidence must be. Note that some old, fat guy with a picture of a toy alien and that alien's ghost do not qualify unless your name is John or BJ.
The fact that you two space cadets even buy into that story for a minute would be enough to deny you a security clearance
benj
Mar 8, 2016, 1:55:48 PM3/8/16
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cover-up of UFO data. How can anyone know what is involved when the
gummint has clowns like you making up all sorts of shit to keep the
cover-up going? The cover-up is BEYOND DOUBT!
You mad as being exposed again, HVAC?
benj
Mar 8, 2016, 2:21:32 PM3/8/16
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professional liar. Military reports, police reports, commercial pilot
reports, radar reports, crowds of people all seeing the same thing (mass
hallucination he says, whatever that is). He denies it all and won't
even read or consider it. It doesn't get any more irrational and
ignorant than that. No offense.
Government UFO cover-up is BEYOND DOUBT.
You mad HVAC?
benj
Mar 8, 2016, 2:40:37 PM3/8/16
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possibly know how many their actually were?
Jeez, Odd!
Odd Bodkin
Mar 9, 2016, 8:30:46 AM3/9/16
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Pentcho Valev
Mar 10, 2016, 1:59:23 AM3/10/16
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Einsteinians sing in abandon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=degD69wnZcY
Sponsored by Perimeter Institute: "All you GR haters you were wrong -ong -ong. LIGO feels when space is rippling through with a wave of gravitation. LIGO feels that space is rippling through. Can you feel the excitation? LIGO's view of space is rippling through our collective imagination."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuxFXHircaI
Michio Kaku, Brian Cox, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Brian Greene, Lisa Randall: "Light travels at the same speed no matter how you look at it. No matter how I move relative to you light travels at the same speed. No matter who is doing the measurement and no matter what direction you are moving the speed of light is the same. The speed of light is the same no matter what direction or how fast... As you travel faster time slows down. Everything slows down. Everything slows down. Time slows down when you move. Time passes at a different rate. Clocks run slow. It's a monumental shift in how we see the world. It's a beautiful piece of science. It's a beautifully elegant theory. It's a beautiful piece of science. It's a beautiful piece..."
Sometimes, very rarely, sad poetry can be heard from Perimeter Institute:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/09/05/perimeter-institute-and-the-crisis-in-modern-physics/
Neil Turok: "It's the ultimate catastrophe: that theoretical physics has led to this crazy situation where the physicists are utterly confused and seem not to have any predictions at all."
Pentcho Valev
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=degD69wnZcY
Sponsored by Perimeter Institute: "All you GR haters you were wrong -ong -ong. LIGO feels when space is rippling through with a wave of gravitation. LIGO feels that space is rippling through. Can you feel the excitation? LIGO's view of space is rippling through our collective imagination."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuxFXHircaI
Michio Kaku, Brian Cox, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Brian Greene, Lisa Randall: "Light travels at the same speed no matter how you look at it. No matter how I move relative to you light travels at the same speed. No matter who is doing the measurement and no matter what direction you are moving the speed of light is the same. The speed of light is the same no matter what direction or how fast... As you travel faster time slows down. Everything slows down. Everything slows down. Time slows down when you move. Time passes at a different rate. Clocks run slow. It's a monumental shift in how we see the world. It's a beautiful piece of science. It's a beautifully elegant theory. It's a beautiful piece of science. It's a beautiful piece..."
Sometimes, very rarely, sad poetry can be heard from Perimeter Institute:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/09/05/perimeter-institute-and-the-crisis-in-modern-physics/
Neil Turok: "It's the ultimate catastrophe: that theoretical physics has led to this crazy situation where the physicists are utterly confused and seem not to have any predictions at all."
Pentcho Valev
HVAC
Mar 10, 2016, 6:32:29 AM3/10/16
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BJ quacked
Of course I have read and examined the case for UFOs and aliens.
When I was a kid.
But childhood must end or you wind up like BJ or John. (MapleLoops too).
I read everything I could get my hands on. I was very interested in UFOs. But at the end of the day, I realized that most were frauds and the remaining unexplained were exactly that... Unexplained. To take the leap of faith that you have, to believe that unexplained = proof of aliens, was a leap I was not and am not stupid enough to make.
Government UFO cover-up is BEYOND DOUBT.
------------
Secret branches of the government and military use retards like you to mask classified projects. I cannot say much regarding these projects but having you UFO freaks to divert attention away from reality is playing right into our hands. You are useful idiots.
No offense
HVAC is paid to deny it all. He says he will believe, but he's a
professional liar. Military reports, police reports, commercial pilot
reports, radar reports, crowds of people all seeing the same thing (mass
hallucination he says, whatever that is). He denies it all and won't
even read or consider it. It doesn't get any more irrational and
ignorant than that. No offense.
-------------
professional liar. Military reports, police reports, commercial pilot
reports, radar reports, crowds of people all seeing the same thing (mass
hallucination he says, whatever that is). He denies it all and won't
even read or consider it. It doesn't get any more irrational and
ignorant than that. No offense.
Of course I have read and examined the case for UFOs and aliens.
When I was a kid.
But childhood must end or you wind up like BJ or John. (MapleLoops too).
I read everything I could get my hands on. I was very interested in UFOs. But at the end of the day, I realized that most were frauds and the remaining unexplained were exactly that... Unexplained. To take the leap of faith that you have, to believe that unexplained = proof of aliens, was a leap I was not and am not stupid enough to make.
Government UFO cover-up is BEYOND DOUBT.
Secret branches of the government and military use retards like you to mask classified projects. I cannot say much regarding these projects but having you UFO freaks to divert attention away from reality is playing right into our hands. You are useful idiots.
No offense
Pentcho Valev
Mar 10, 2016, 8:18:37 AM3/10/16
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http://www.thenational.ae/arts-life/the-review/why-albert-einstein-continues-to-make-waves-as-black-holes-collide#full
"It was, said the director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, which has invested US$1 billion (Dh3.67bn) in the project, "one of history's greatest scientific discoveries". Cue unquestioning celebratory headlines around the world. In the ensuing excitement, even US president Barack Obama found time to Tweet "Einstein was right!". Only, he wasn't. Einstein believed in neither gravitational waves nor black holes. While there are few theoretical or experimental physicists who would dispute Einstein's immense significance to their field - his 1915 general theory of relativity nailed gravity and is the foundation of all modern astrophysics - a handful of scientists outside the Ligo magic circle have expressed scepticism about the discovery."
Pentcho Valev
"It was, said the director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, which has invested US$1 billion (Dh3.67bn) in the project, "one of history's greatest scientific discoveries". Cue unquestioning celebratory headlines around the world. In the ensuing excitement, even US president Barack Obama found time to Tweet "Einstein was right!". Only, he wasn't. Einstein believed in neither gravitational waves nor black holes. While there are few theoretical or experimental physicists who would dispute Einstein's immense significance to their field - his 1915 general theory of relativity nailed gravity and is the foundation of all modern astrophysics - a handful of scientists outside the Ligo magic circle have expressed scepticism about the discovery."
Pentcho Valev
Pentcho Valev
Mar 11, 2016, 6:49:50 AM3/11/16
to
http://www.thenational.ae/arts-life/the-review/why-albert-einstein-continues-to-make-waves-as-black-holes-collide#full
"On September 16, 2010, a false signal - a so-called "blind injection" - was fed into both the Ligo and Virgo systems as part of an exercise to "test ... detection capabilities". At the time, the vast majority of the hundreds of scientists working on the equipment had no idea that they were being fed a dummy signal.
The truth was not revealed until March the following year, by which time several papers about the supposed sensational discovery of gravitational waves were poised for publication.
"While the scientists were disappointed that the discovery was not real, the success of the analysis was a compelling demonstration of the collaboration's readiness to detect gravitational waves," Ligo reported at the time.
But take a look at the visualisation (www.ligo.org/news/blind-injection.php) of the faked signal, says Dr Kiriushcheva, and compare it to the image apparently showing the collision of the twin black holes, seen on the second page of the recently-published discovery paper (tinyurl.com/h3wkvmo).
"They look very, very similar," she says. "It means that they knew exactly what they wanted to get and this is suspicious for us: when you know what you want to get from science, usually you can get it."
The apparent similarity is more curious because the faked event purported to show not a collision between two black holes, but the gravitational waves created by a neutron star spiralling into a black hole. The signals appear so similar, in fact, that Dr Kiriushcheva questions whether the "true" signal might actually have been an echo of the fake, "stored in the computer system from when they turned off the equipment five years before"."
Pentcho Valev
"On September 16, 2010, a false signal - a so-called "blind injection" - was fed into both the Ligo and Virgo systems as part of an exercise to "test ... detection capabilities". At the time, the vast majority of the hundreds of scientists working on the equipment had no idea that they were being fed a dummy signal.
The truth was not revealed until March the following year, by which time several papers about the supposed sensational discovery of gravitational waves were poised for publication.
"While the scientists were disappointed that the discovery was not real, the success of the analysis was a compelling demonstration of the collaboration's readiness to detect gravitational waves," Ligo reported at the time.
But take a look at the visualisation (www.ligo.org/news/blind-injection.php) of the faked signal, says Dr Kiriushcheva, and compare it to the image apparently showing the collision of the twin black holes, seen on the second page of the recently-published discovery paper (tinyurl.com/h3wkvmo).
"They look very, very similar," she says. "It means that they knew exactly what they wanted to get and this is suspicious for us: when you know what you want to get from science, usually you can get it."
The apparent similarity is more curious because the faked event purported to show not a collision between two black holes, but the gravitational waves created by a neutron star spiralling into a black hole. The signals appear so similar, in fact, that Dr Kiriushcheva questions whether the "true" signal might actually have been an echo of the fake, "stored in the computer system from when they turned off the equipment five years before"."
Pentcho Valev
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