GPS Off Course

[The Starmaker]

Holes in the Sun Are Threatening to Throw Birds, GPS Off Course
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b89qw1paaqibajr/AAAvBJwuhzOw-TKssg5fK3dGa?dl=0


I not sure it's the holes in the sun...it may be the gravitional waves and the anitgravity effect that
is throwing the GPS off course...the measurement of the gravitional waves are off, which is throwing off
GPS.

Does it make any sense?

[Sam Wormley]

No

OTOH -- Solar coronal holes can result in geomagnetic storms that can
play havoc with precision GPS measurements, but these storms seldom
last more than a few days.



--

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com]

In sci.physics The Starmaker <star...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Does it make any sense?

Nothing you post ever makes any sense.


--
Jim Pennino

[Sergio]

nope.

[The Starmaker]

i guess yous two are the smartest guys in the room..

[Sergio]

we was, but the gravitational waves are making everybody less thinkable.
and birdies do not use GPS, many fly by night.

[Bimpy]

Koobee Wublee wrote:

> Well, it would be a fatal disaster if the GPS satellites are
> preprogrammed with a fixed offset per general relativity prediction.
> Luckily, engineers are so much fvcking smarter than self-styled
> physicists. Engineers have designed in GPS satellites with dynamical
> offset that can be changed from time to time. So, if sunspots throw the
> GPS timing offset, there is no big deal. We just have to retune it
> dynamically. Thanks for pointing this out. <shrug>

I believe it is much simpler than that. Once a day the satellites clock
reading are updated by the ground stations. There is no need for more than
that, since they are updated anyway for any small deviations due to
various factors. Because clocks are updated, they call it Relativity :)

[Bimpy]

Sergio wrote:

> we was, but the gravitational waves are making everybody less thinkable.
> and birdies do not use GPS, many fly by night.

Actually they does. Birds are using both the position of Sun, Moon and the
Center of the Milky Way in order to triangulate their own instantaneous
location. Ie, a capitalist giving fresh bread to hungry people. Isn't it
wonderful?

Nuland counts up killed Russians in Donbass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bak7EdAsxZY&t=50s

[Bimpy]

Man, that picture is so explanatory in Relativity. A good soul capitalist
gives bread cut in slices and portions to the hungry population of equally
human beings. That's how they want it to be. The capitalist is a giver. HE
gives you. It comes from HIM to YOU. Fuck mee!

[Sam Wormley]

No.
Relativity in the Global Positioning System
> http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/
>
http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/download/lrr-2003-1Color.pdf


> The Global Positioning System (GPS) uses accurate, stable atomic
> clocks in satellites and on the ground to provide world-wide position
> and time determination. These clocks have gravitational and motional
> frequency shifts which are so large that, without carefully
> accounting for numerous relativistic effects, the system would not
> work. This paper discusses the conceptual basis, founded on special
> and general relativity, for navigation using GPS. Relativistic
> principles and effects which must be considered include the constancy
> of the speed of light, the equivalence principle, the Sagnac effect,
> time dilation, gravitational frequency shifts, and relativity of
> synchronization. Experimental tests of relativity obtained with a GPS
> receiver aboard the TOPEX/POSEIDON satellite will be discussed.
> Recently frequency jumps arising from satellite orbit adjustments
> have been identified as relativistic effects. These will be explained
> and some interesting applications of GPS will be discussed.

>
http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/download/lrr-2003-1Color.pdf

[hanson]

<swor...@gmail.com> "Sam Wormley" has become
a senile geezer who repeats his Yiddisher street corner
act over and over again, re-posting his fellow kike Ashy's
>
<http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/>
>
tripe of "Relativity in the Global Positioning System" in
which it took Ashby 39 questionable & tortured steps to
get to the 38 usec delay, when & while any high school
student or engineer, can glean, for this particular situation,
in 1 fell swoop, in ONE SINGLE STEP, in good, old
Newtonian ways, and show that
>
||||| ---- m_e/h * 2G/c^2 *86400 = 38... microsec/day ----
||||| --- m_e/h * 2G/c *86400 = 11.2... km drift/day ----

where m_e = mass of earth and h = the satellite's height
above the earth surface. Correction are done by standard
industrial ways by classical methods devoid of any SR/GR.
< http://tinyurl.com/622an2> or < http://tinyurl.com/57asbg>
>>
||||| ---- GPS NEVER NEEDED neither SR nor GR ----
||||| not for its design, manufacturing, testing nor operations.
||||| ---------- GPS was in operation LONG before --------
||||| Einstein Dingleberries came along to nuzzle into the
||||| show, hoping to get some credit away from Newton.
>
Sam, the good old days of Juden Physik are GONE!
However, nobody prevents you and your fellow Einstein
-Dingleberries from putting around your necks a ,
<http://tinyurl.com/Dog-Cone-for-Relativists>
so that you can experience your own relativistic
event horizon and perhaps even see a light cone.
Sam, you old Dreidel, thanks for the laughs
ahahahaahason
. ....

[The Starmaker]

Koobee Wublee wrote:

> Well, it would be a fatal disaster if the GPS satellites are preprogrammed with a fixed offset per general relativity prediction. Luckily, engineers are so much fvcking smarter than self-styled physicists. Engineers have designed in GPS satellites with dynamical offset that can be changed from time to time. So, if sunspots throw the GPS timing offset, there is no big deal. We just have to retune it dynamically. Thanks for pointing this out. <shrug>

Also, the GPS can be hacked by anyone...to make it appear there is a traffic jame when none exist.


An alien from another planet can wreck havock hacking GPS saellites.

[The Starmaker]

GPS hacking is also great for people who rob banks and other places to
escape from...

[Paul B. Andersen]

On 02.04.2016 17:10, hanson wrote:
> <swor...@gmail.com> "Sam Wormley" has become
> a senile geezer who repeats his Yiddisher street corner
> act over and over again, re-posting his fellow kike Ashy's
>>
> <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/>
>>
> tripe of "Relativity in the Global Positioning System" in which it took
> Ashby 39 questionable & tortured steps to get to the 38 usec delay, when
> & while any high school student or engineer, can glean, for this
> particular situation, in 1 fell swoop, in ONE SINGLE STEP, in good, old
> Newtonian ways, and show that
>>
> ||||| ---- m_e/h * 2G/c^2 *86400 = 38... microsec/day ---- |||||
> --- m_e/h * 2G/c *86400 = 11.2... km drift/day ----
> where m_e = mass of earth and h = the satellite's height
> above the earth surface.

But the calculation is wrong even if the result
accidentally is almost correct.

What you have calculated is how much more the proper
time of a satellite which is _stationary_ in the ECI frame
a distance 20.185E6 m from Earth's centre will advance per day
compared to a clock on the ground.
But the GPS satellites are _moving_ at a distance 26.56E6 m
from the Earth's centre. The gravitational part is equivalent
to ~45.6 us a day, while the speed part is equivalent to
-7 us a day, resulting in ~38.6 us a day.

The errors due to the wrong height and wrong speed
cancels each other.

Here you can see the calculation made properly:
https://paulba.no/pdf/GPS_clock_rate.pdf

Your method wouldn't work for any satellite in any other
orbit than GPS orbit.

If you don't believe that, you can try it on - let's
say the international space station where h = 400 km.
The correct answer is -24.7 us per day.
Your method gives +1944 us a day! :-D

Or you could try it on a geostationary satellite where h = 35.8E6 m.
The correct value is 46.6 us a day.
Your method gives 22 us a day.

See:
https://paulba.no/Satellites.html

If you have problems running Java applets, read this:
https://paulba.no/RunningJava.html


--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

[hanson]

"Paul B. Andersen relativity" <relat...@paulba.no>

anagrams to the "laudable insanity Pervert" who wrote:
>
hanson wrote:
<swor...@gmail.com> "Sam Wormley" has become
a senile geezer who repeats his Yiddisher street corner
act over and over again, re-posting his fellow kike Ashy's
>
<http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/>
>
tripe of "Relativity in the Global Positioning System" in
which it took Ashby 39 questionable & tortured steps to
get to the 38 usec delay, when & while any high school
student or engineer, can glean, for this particular situation,
in 1 fell swoop, in ONE SINGLE STEP, in good, old
Newtonian ways, and show that
>
||||| ---- m_e/h * 2G/c^2 *86400 = 38... microsec/day ----
||||| --- m_e/h * 2G/c *86400 = 11.2... km drift/day ----

where m_e = mass of earth and h = the satellite's height

above the earth surface. Correction are done by standard
industrial ways by classical methods devoid of any SR/GR.
< http://tinyurl.com/622an2> or < http://tinyurl.com/57asbg>
>>
||||| ---- GPS NEVER NEEDED neither SR nor GR ----
||||| not for its design, manufacturing, testing nor operations.
||||| ---------- GPS was in operation LONG before --------
||||| Einstein Dingleberries came along to nuzzle into the
||||| show, hoping to get some credit away from Newton.
>
Sam, the good old days of Juden Physik are GONE!
However, nobody prevents you and your fellow Einstein
-Dingleberries from putting around your necks a ,
<http://tinyurl.com/Dog-Cone-for-Relativists>
so that you can experience your own relativistic
event horizon and perhaps even see a light cone.
Sam, you old Dreidel, thanks for the laughs

ahahahahahanson

>
Pervert Einstein-Dingleberry-Paul wrote:
But the calculation is wrong even if the result

accidentally is almost correct. <snip Paul's crap>
>
hanson wrote:
Paul, Paul, Paul... what was discussed was Ashby's crap
, NOT your crock, but you being a religiously compulsive
Einstein Dingleberry who worships AE's Sphincter, came
along, fully outfitted with your custom-made
<http://tinyurl.com/Dog-Cone-for-Relativists>
which made it impossible for you to see that...

||||| ---- GPS NEVER NEEDED neither SR nor GR ----
||||| not for its design, manufacturing, testing nor operations.
||||| ---------- GPS was in operation LONG before --------
||||| Einstein Dingleberries came along to nuzzle into the
||||| show, hoping to get some credit away from Newton.

Paul, thanks for the laughs, though... ahahahahahanson

[The Starmaker]

Now, do you know How To Hack GPS??


You can learn how to digitally fake a traffic jam by creating phony
profiles on the traffic and navigational app Waze,
you can fool cops GPS to head straight to a traffic jam....make your
getaway easy.

[Paul B. Andersen]

On 03.04.2016 01:20, hanson wrote:
> "Paul B. Andersen relativity" <relat...@paulba.no> anagrams to the
> "laudable insanity Pervert" who wrote:
>>
> hanson wrote:
> <swor...@gmail.com> "Sam Wormley" has become
> a senile geezer who repeats his Yiddisher street corner
> act over and over again, re-posting his fellow kike Ashy's
>>
> <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/>
>>
> tripe of "Relativity in the Global Positioning System" in which it took
> Ashby 39 questionable & tortured steps to get to the 38 usec delay, when
> & while any high school student or engineer, can glean, for this
> particular situation, in 1 fell swoop, in ONE SINGLE STEP, in good, old
> Newtonian ways, and show that
>>
> ||||| ---- m_e/h * 2G/c^2 *86400 = 38... microsec/day ---- |||||
> --- m_e/h * 2G/c *86400 = 11.2... km drift/day ----
> where m_e = mass of earth and h = the satellite's height
> above the earth surface. Correction are done by standard
> industrial ways by classical methods devoid of any SR/GR.
>

> Pervert Einstein-Dingleberry-Paul wrote:
> But the calculation is wrong even if the result
> accidentally is almost correct. <snip Paul's crap>

Even if it may be that you are too stupid to understand
that I was right, I do think you understood that the following
is correct:

But the calculation is wrong even if the result
accidentally is almost correct.

What you have calculated is how much more the proper
time of a satellite which is _stationary_ in the ECI frame
a distance 20.185E6 m from Earth's centre will advance per day
compared to a clock on the ground.
But the GPS satellites are _moving_ at a distance 26.56E6 m
from the Earth's centre. The gravitational part is equivalent
to ~45.6 us a day, while the speed part is equivalent to
-7 us a day, resulting in ~38.6 us a day.

The errors due to the wrong height and wrong speed
cancels each other.

Here you can see the calculation made properly:
https://paulba.no/pdf/GPS_clock_rate.pdf

Your method wouldn't work for any satellite in any other
orbit than GPS orbit.

If you don't believe that, you can try it on - let's
say the international space station where h = 400 km.
The correct answer is -24.7 us per day.
Your method gives +1944 us a day!

[hanson]

ROTFLMAO .... ahahaha... Relativity is as full of shit as are
the Einstein Dingleberries who worship Albert's Sphincter as
is exampled by...
>
the "laudable insanity Pervert" "Paul B. Andersen relativity"
<relat...@paulba.no> who is a sad Einstein Dingleberry who
cranked himself in his grief and plight and so he barked:
> <snipped Paul useless shit> Even if it may be that you

> are too stupid to understand that I was right, I do think
> you understood that the following is correct:
>

hanson wrote:
Paul, yes the following is correct, but your useless crap is NOT.
>
Paul, loosen your <http://tinyurl.com/Dog-Cone-for-Relativists>
It's too tight and makes it impossible for you to see that...

[Paul B. Andersen]

On 03.04.2016 19:25, hanson wrote:
> ||||| ---- GPS NEVER NEEDED neither SR nor GR ---- ||||| not for its
> design, manufacturing, testing nor operations.
> ||||| ---------- GPS was in operation LONG before -------- |||||
> Einstein Dingleberries came along to nuzzle into the
> ||||| show, hoping to get some credit away from Newton.

You obviously know what you are talking about! :-D

> Paul, thanks for the laughs, though... ahahahahahanson

Likewise.


--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

[hanson]

<relat...@paulba.no> "Paul B. Andersen" loosened his
<http://tinyurl.com/Dog-Cone-for-Relativists> & wrote:
>
hanson wrote:
[..]

||||| ---- GPS NEVER NEEDED neither SR nor GR ----
||||| not for its design, manufacturing, testing nor operations.
||||| ---------- GPS was in operation LONG before --------
||||| Einstein Dingleberries came along to nuzzle into the
||||| show, hoping to get some credit away from Newton.
>

Paul wrote:
You obviously know what you are talking about! :-D
>

hanson wrote:
Paul, thanks for the laughs, though... ahahahahahanson
>

Paul wrote:
Likewise.
>
hanson wrote:
Paul, now you can tell me, and shine with SR/GR
fundamentals. Millions of pages sing about the
grandeur of "Space time". But they all have different
interpretations of what it is and then formalize it
into, say:
>
ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - c^2dt^2 ..... [1].
>
Some say ds^2 is "space-time", others say that
ds is "space-time", other still insist that ds^2 or
ds are "space-time intervals", while others are
adamant that "s" happens to be "space-time"
Which choir do you sing with, Paul?
>
Now, Paul stay calm & don't sing like a castrati.
Just tell me the MLT dimensions of "space-time"

[Paul B. Andersen]

On 04.04.2016 22:34, hanson wrote:
> hanson wrote:
> Paul, now you can tell me, and shine with SR/GR fundamentals. Millions
> of pages sing about the
> grandeur of "Space time". But they all have different
> interpretations of what it is and then formalize it
> into, say:
>
> ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - c^2dt^2 ..... [1].
>
> Some say ds^2 is "space-time", others say that
> ds is "space-time", other still insist that ds^2 or
> ds are "space-time intervals", while others are
> adamant that "s" happens to be "space-time"
> Which choir do you sing with, Paul?

Why should I try to remedy your confusion?

You can however see an application of the metric
in flat space-time here:
https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

[hanson]

<relat...@paulba.no> "Paul B. Andersen" wrote:
>
hanson wrote:
now Paul, tell me, and shine with SR/GR

fundamentals. Millions of pages sing about the
grandeur of "Space time". But they all have different
interpretations of what it is and then formalize it
into, say:
>
ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - c^2dt^2 ..... [1].
>
Some say ds^2 is "space-time", others say that
ds is "space-time", other still insist that ds^2 or
ds are "space-time intervals", while others are
adamant that "s" happens to be "space-time"
Which choir do you sing with, Paul?
>

Now, Paul stay calm & don't sing like a castrati.
Just tell me the MLT dimensions of "space-time"
>

Paul weaseled and sang:

Why should I try to remedy your confusion?
You can however see an application of the metric
>

hanson wrote:
Paul, I am NOT interested in an "application"
which is simply yet another interpretation.
Don't get yourself into that "me too" trap...
>
I wanna know that the MLT dimensions of
"space-time" are. Are you able to do that?

[Paul B. Andersen]

No.

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

[hanson]

Paul wrote:
> No.
>
hanson wrote:
Awww.. that is a shame, Paul. I am sorry to hear
that. Maybe someone else will come and help you.
So let us wait, hope and see.

[hanson]

[The Starmaker]

there are only three dimensions..T time, is not a dimension, throw the T
out the window.

[hanson]

Sternmacher wrote:
> there are only three dimensions.T time, is not a

> dimension, throw the T out the window.
>

hanson wrote:
AHAHAHAHA... Good one!.. that then would turn their
precious Space-Time back into being just plain
old-fashioned ordinary Space, of x*y*z. Right?
Paul who is our relativity man from Trondheim will
take a dim view of that. ... ahahahahahahanson

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

hanson wrote:

> ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - c^2dt^2 ..... [1].
>
> Some say ds^2 is "space-time", others say that
> ds is "space-time", other still insist that ds^2 or
> ds are "space-time intervals", while others are
> adamant that "s" happens to be "space-time"

Who, according to your research, says either one, and where?

> Just tell me the MLT dimensions of "space-time"

There are no “MLT dimensions of space-time”. You are confused as to the
proper use of the term “dimension”, and you do not understand yet what
“space-time” is. You must realize that there are different definitions for
the term “dimension” as there are different contexts in which it is used, if
you are going to understand “space-time” in physics.

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dimension&dataset=> pp.

Relevant here:

On the one hand there are dimensions in mathematics, of geometric manifolds,
which are degrees of freedom in the choice of coordinates in such a
manifold.

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dimension&dataset=&rawformassumption=%7B%22C%22,
+%22dimension%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%22MathWorld%22%7D>

On the other hand there are dimensions in physics, of physical quantities
which can be described in terms of combinations of the quantities mass (M),
length (L), and time (T).

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensional_analysis>

It just happens that because mechanics is concerned with the motion of
bodies, it is useful in physics to consider the mathematical concept of 3+1
space(-)time, as a body always occupies a particular position in space at a
particular time. Whereas motion can be described as a change in three
spatial coordinates and one temporal coordinate.

<http://www.britannica.com/topic/Albert-Einstein-on-Space-Time-1987141>

HTH


F'up2 sci.physics.relativity

PointedEars
--
Q: Who's on the case when the electricity goes out?
A: Sherlock Ohms.

(from: WolframAlpha)

[hanson]

"<Point...@web.de> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"

aka "Lame-brained-Lahn" in his Groessenwahn wrote:
>
hanson wrote:
>> ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - c^2dt^2 ..... [1].
>>
>> Some say ds^2 is "space-time", others say that
>> ds is "space-time", other still insist that ds^2 or
>> ds are "space-time intervals", while others are
>> adamant that "s" happens to be "space-time"
>

Thomas Lahn" wrote:
> Who, according to your research, says either one, and where?
>

hanson wrote:
The 1-liner of yours above does show, off the bat,
that you don't know what you are talking about
and it's a primer for your lengthy sidestep tangos
which you indeed have done below. ... LOL.

>
hanson wrote:
>> Just tell me the MLT dimensions of "space-time"

>> as shown in [1]

>>
Thomas Lahn" wrote:
> There are no “MLT dimensions of space-time”.
>

hanson wrote:
So Space-time has no mass, no lenght, no area,
no space and no time. but you say it exists.
ROTFMAO!
>
What's wrong with you, lame -brained Lahn?
At least Trondheim Anderson was humble and clever
enough not to answer what dimensions [1] has.
>
In [1] there is dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 which are ranges
of x,y,z that are ORDINARY **Length** items and
x^2,y^2,z^2 are their respective AREAS; no ifs
no buts and no parroting of Lame-brained Lahn
will change that.
If "ds" does not stand for space-time, it must be
short for "stupid".. likem you & your EDs are.
>
"Thomas Lahn" wrote:
> <snip> You must realize that there are

> different definitions for the term “dimension”
>

hansoon wrote
So name some different definitions for length
& name some different definitions for an area.

"Thomas Lahn" wrote:
> there are different contexts in which it is used, if
> you are going to understand “space-time” in physics.
>

hanson wrote:
So, Lahn, show what those different contexts are
and why they do need to be different for the one
and same theory.
(It's those different contexts that are the cons
which are always used to make sure that experiment
fits the theory, no matter how wrong and contrived
they are... LOL)
>
Show what YOUR understanding of Space-time is,
given your Lame-brained Lahn tripe below which shows
that you fell victim to the Rel-con like every other Einstein
Dingleberry, like yourself, did in your Religious worship
of Albert's Sphincter.

>
Thomas Lahn" wrote:
> <http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dimension&dataset=> pp.
> Relevant here:
> On the one hand there are dimensions in mathematics, of geometric
> manifolds,
> which are degrees of freedom in the choice of coordinates in such a
> manifold.
>

hanson wrote:
"On the one hand" that surely is a "Relevant" verse from a psalm
in the Book of Einstein Dingleberriers.. but to help you out of your
USELESS, twisted &Lame-brained Lahn spacetime obsession,
let me see if there is some shred that explains to rational
people what you mean by Space-time which according to you
does not even exist inn the real world:

>
Thomas Lahn lame brained attempts" wherein he wrote:
> <http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dimension&dataset=&rawformassumption=%7B%22C%22,
> +%22dimension%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%22MathWorld%22%7D>
>
> On the other hand there are dimensions in physics, of physical quantities
> which can be described in terms of combinations of the quantities mass
> (M),
> length (L), and time (T).
>

hanson wrote:
On the other hand you just said again that Space-time does
NOT exist in the real world which makes it as USELESS to
real physics as was the depiction of reality by that other
Jewish Schmuck, Einstein's crony, Pablo Picasso who gave
to the world of Fine Arts his twisted, bizarre and obscenely
grotesque reality in his paintings of they human face and form.
Both USELESS .... So much for Albert's physics...

>
Thomas Lahn lame brained attempts" wherein he wrote:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensional_analysis>
>
> It just happens that because mechanics is concerned with the motion of
> bodies, it is useful in physics to consider the mathematical concept of
> 3+1
> space(-)time, as a body always occupies a particular position in space at
> a
> particular time. Whereas motion can be described as a change in three
> spatial coordinates and one temporal coordinate.
>
> <http://www.britannica.com/topic/Albert-Einstein-on-Space-Time-1987141>
>

hanson wrote:
So, tell why the motion of bodies _in_ space & -in_ time is
not sufficient but needs your artificial, bizarre and utterly
useless and imagined space-time which you yourself are
NOT able to explain?
None of the agencies of the world's space faring nations
do use SR or GR for determining the trajectories of their SVs
>
So, listen up Lahn, and point your ears:
(1) You are a sad case of Jew propaganda and you fell victim
to the most stupid shit that physics was ever "beschmiert"
with, in your space-timne. Pity.... but ROTFLMAO... ahahaha..
>
(2) There are many luminaries, including rational US Jews
who spoke out against it like:
>
||| Edward Teller, the inventor of the H-Bomb, who says:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwiayZ3sH7U >
||| "Einstein didn't know what he was talking about..."
||| "...or he was lying, or both".
>
||| Prof. Carver A. Mead of Caltech (a student of Feynman),
||| "It is my firm belief that the 20th century will be
|||characterized in history as the dark ages of physics."
>
||| or F.A Hayek, Nobel laureate, who said: "In the future,
||| Humanity will see in our Epoch an Era of superstition, all
||| associated with the names of Marx, Freud and Einstein"
>
||| or John Beckman, an astronomy professor & Einstein disciple:
||| "The theory of relativity lives on. Is it a true picture of reality?
||| That is probably more a matter of FAITH than of proof."
>
Thanks for the laughs, though, Lahn... ahahahahanson

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

hanson wrote:

> […] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn" [insult] wrote:
>> hanson wrote:
>>> ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - c^2dt^2 ..... [1].
>>>
>>> Some say ds^2 is "space-time", others say that
>>> ds is "space-time", other still insist that ds^2 or
>>> ds are "space-time intervals", while others are
>>> adamant that "s" happens to be "space-time"

>> Who, according to your research, says either one, and where?
>

> The 1-liner of yours above does show, off the bat,

> that you don't know what you are talking about […]

No, it shows instead that you make unsubstantiated claims.

>>> Just tell me the MLT dimensions of "space-time"
>>> as shown in [1]
>>

>> There are no “MLT dimensions of space-time”.
>

> So Space-time has no mass, no lenght, no area,
> no space and no time.

No, AISB it has three spatial dimensions (that can be compacted into one
dimension, space) and one temporal dimension (time). But those are
*mathematical* dimensions, ways of how the *coordinates* of an object can
change.

By contrast, mass and length, and by extension of length, area ([area] =
[length]²), are *physical* dimensions of *quantities*.

> but you say it exists.

It exists insofar as that we can indeed observe the effects that would
follow if the theories using it would be correct. IOW, the predictions of
the theories have been confirmed by observation again and again.

As you are probably aware, recently predictions that followed from assuming
the correctness of the general theory of relativity, in particular a curved
spacetime, curved according to the energy–momentum in a location, had been
confirmed once again by the experimental observation of gravitational waves.

> ROTFMAO!

Simple minds are easily amused.

> In [1] there is dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 which are ranges
> of x,y,z

No, they are not.

> that are ORDINARY **Length** items

Not really. “x”, “y”, and “z” in the referred equation are appropriately
chosen labels for the spatial *coordinates* of an event, a position, in
spacetime. “t” then is its one temporal coordinate, time.

The referred equation means that if you make the differences between
corresponding coordinates of two points infinitely small, you can arrive at
a way to measure distances between all possible two points in that flat
manifold.

> and x^2,y^2,z^2 are their respective AREAS;

Only in an overly simplified sense. “dx²” must be read “(dx)²”; _not_
“d(x²)”.

>> <snip> You must realize that there are
>> different definitions for the term “dimension”
>
> hansoon wrote

If you start quoting properly, as suggested by a proper newsreader, you will
probably not embarrass yourself again by failing to spell your own (nick)
name properly.

> So name some different definitions for length
> & name some different definitions for an area.

You misunderstand. I said that there are different definitions of the term
“dimension” in physics. One of them is borrowed from mathematics, from
geometry. The one you are referring to is not borrowed from mathematics,
and you are confusing it with the former.

>> there are different contexts in which it is used, if
>> you are going to understand “space-time” in physics.
>

> So, Lahn, show what those different contexts are
> and why they do need to be different for the one
> and same theory.

Because one (the mathematical one) concerns position only, and the other one
concerns all physical quantities. There are, of course, physical quantities
in the theories of relativity as well (they are physical theories after
all), and they do have dimensions there in the quantitative sense.

But spacetime *itself* does not have *that* kind of dimensions; it has the
mathematical kind instead. So your question regarding “the MLT dimensions”
of spacetime does not make sense; it betrays a fundamental lack of
understanding what spacetime is.

> Show what YOUR understanding of Space-time is,

My understanding, which is equal to what is being taught in mathematics and
physics classes since more than a century, is that spacetime is a 3+1-
dimensional manifold.

>> On the other hand there are dimensions in physics, of physical quantities
>> which can be described in terms of combinations of the quantities mass
>> (M),
>> length (L), and time (T).
>>
> hanson wrote:
> On the other hand you just said again that Space-time does
> NOT exist in the real world

No, I did not say that. I said that there are the dimensions with which
you determine position and distance, and there are dimensions which which
you *can* define the form of physical quantities. Those are *separate*
concepts. You are committing the fallacy of equivocation here.

> which makes it as USELESS to real physics

On the contrary. The mathematical dimensions of spacetime are fundamental
to describing how physical quantities change when objects are in motion
relative to one another.

Why? Well, one quantity important in motion is speed. Speed is
the magnitude of velocity, and velocity is the change of *position* per
unit time. A position has *coordinates*. Which coordinates determine
position is the subject of geometry, of mathematics.

If speed is measured relative to another object, it is important how
distances to that object and times on that object are measured. So
you see that there really is no contradiction in applying in physics
*both* definitions of “dimension”, but in different contexts.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity#Physics_in_spacetime>

> So, tell why the motion of bodies _in_ space & -in_ time is

> not sufficient but needs […] space-time […]?

There are several ways to explain it. I prefer to start with the fact that
all experiments have shown that the speed of light is constant in all frames
of reference. Spacetime then provides a convenient mathematical framework
to describe the observed effects that follow from that.

> None of the agencies of the world's space faring nations
> do use SR or GR for determining the trajectories of their SVs

Because the speeds of those space vehicles (SV) are so low compared to the
mindbogglingly huge speed of light that (what we know since more than a
century) the *approximations* of classical mechanics suffice there:

lim γ(v) = lim 1∕√(1 − (v∕c)²) = 1
v→0 v→0

[γ(v) is the Lorentz factor for speed v which determines the degree of
length contraction and time dilation. As γ(v) approaches 1, it
becomes increasingly harder to observable any length contraction and
time dilation. If necessary, equations for both can be provided here
*again* to demonstrate this.]

However, SR and GR become important where electromagnetic signals are
involved, as those travel at the speed of light. One such kind of signals
are those of global navigation satellite systems (GNSSs). The trilaterated
position of the observer on the surface of this planet would be off if both
SR and GR would not have been considered in the design of the hardware and
the software of the satellites of those systems and the receivers on the
ground:

<http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html>


BTW, when do you think will you have learned to post in a civilized manner,
including *proper* quotation?

F'up2 sci.physics.relativity

--
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

[hanson]

"<Point...@web.de> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"
aka "Lame-brained-Lahn", in his Groessenwahn, kept
on with his unearthly and unreal laments, showing that
"Lame-brained-Lahn" never worked in any Physics lab..
>
but Lahn busily echoes physics quackery that he saw
on the internet & BELIEVES that it must be true, since
it is printed, despite the fact that "Lame-brained-Lahn"
never touched nor felt any of his asserted "belief-items.:

<snipped "Lame-brained-Lahn's" sad & useless quackery
to save him embarrassment, since Lahn's mentation type
is no different then that of a religious cult fanatic. Pity>
>
Lahn was shown the paragraphs below before, but in
his Groessenwahn "Lame-brained-Lahn" snipped it and
loud mouthes that he is smarter and knows the subject
matter better than luminaries do, like:

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

hanson wrote:

> "<Point...@web.de> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"
> aka "Lame-brained-Lahn", in his Groessenwahn, kept
> on with his unearthly and unreal laments, showing that
> "Lame-brained-Lahn" never worked in any Physics lab..

The part about my working “in any physics lab” is true. But with your
insufficient knowledge of physics and your uncivilized behavior, neither can
have you worked there (except as janitor). So much for “Groessenwahn” (I
would recommend that you *learn* German before you use German words in an
attempt to deride statements of a born German – it is properly spelled
either „Größenwahn“ [Standard German] or «Grössenwahn» [Swiss Standard
German]).

> but Lahn busily echoes physics quackery that he saw on the internet […]

You cannot know what I have seen and where, and you have yet to understand
the subject of our discussion. JFYI, I have also heard lectures, and read
books and papers on the subject, all of which you have yet to do. But I
fear that with you all of it is just pearls before swine.

> [village idiotism]

F'up2 sci.physics.relativity

PointedEars
--

Q: What did the nuclear physicist order for lunch?
A: Fission chips.

(from: WolframAlpha)

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

hanson wrote:

> "<Point...@web.de> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"
> aka "Lame-brained-Lahn", in his Groessenwahn, kept
> on with his unearthly and unreal laments, showing that
> "Lame-brained-Lahn" never worked in any Physics lab..

The part about my working “in any physics lab” is true. But with your
insufficient knowledge of physics and your uncivilized behavior, neither can
have you worked there (except as janitor). So much for “Groessenwahn” (I
would recommend that you *learn* German before you use German words in an
attempt to deride statements of a born German – it is properly spelled
either „Größenwahn“ [Standard German] or «Grössenwahn» [Swiss Standard
German]).

> but Lahn busily echoes physics quackery that he saw on the internet […]

You cannot know what I have seen and where, and you have yet to understand
the subject of our discussion.

JFYI, I have also heard lectures, and read books and papers on the subject,

and been to “physics labs” and talked to physicists (seeing the inside of
the CMS experiment first-hand and talking to CERN people in 2013 was great;
I recommend to readers that they take the chance and visit CERN openlab Open
Day 2016 in June) – all of which you have yet to do.

But I fear that with you all of it would be just pearls before swine.

> [village idiotism]

F'up2 sci.physics.relativity

PointedEars
--

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

hanson wrote:

> "<Point...@web.de> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"
> aka "Lame-brained-Lahn", in his Groessenwahn, kept
> on with his unearthly and unreal laments, showing that
> "Lame-brained-Lahn" never worked in any Physics lab..

The part about my working “in any physics lab” is true. But with your
insufficient knowledge of physics and your uncivilized behavior, neither can

have you worked there (not even as janitor). So much for “Groessenwahn” (I

would recommend that you *learn* German before you use German words in an
attempt to deride statements of a born German – it is properly spelled
either „Größenwahn“ [Standard German] or «Grössenwahn» [Swiss Standard
German]).

> but Lahn busily echoes physics quackery that he saw on the internet […]

You cannot know what I have seen and where, and you have yet to understand
the subject of our discussion.

JFYI, I have also heard lectures, and read books and papers on the subject,
and been to “physics labs” and talked to physicists (seeing the inside of
the CMS experiment first-hand and talking to CERN people in 2013 was great;
I recommend to readers that they take the chance and visit CERN openlab Open
Day 2016 in June) – all of which you have yet to do.

But I fear that with you all of it would be just pearls before swine.

> [village idiotism]

F'up2 sci.physics.relativity

PointedEars
--

[hanson]

"<Point...@web.de> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"
aka "Lame-brained-Lahn", in his Groessenwahn, kept
on with his unearthly and unreal laments, showing that
"Lame-brained-Lahn" never worked in any Physics lab

& agreed that this "is true"... & then Lahn went on to
whine that he was German, (which is not his fault &
>
hanson has no beef with Germans) except here with
"Lame-brained-Lahn and his Größenwahn" or his
«Grössenwahn»".... which Lahn manifests again by
saying that Lahn has "heard lectures, and read books
and papers on the subject, etc"..but that it would be
"just pearls before swine".... [village idiotism]
>
hanson wrote:
... ahahahahaha.. AHAHAHAHA... Na, hoer doch
mal, du alter fanatischer Sack, wipe those tears
off your face and calm down.
>
You appear to be an autodidact, which is very
commendable & honorable, except for your loud-
mouthing (Grossmaulerei). So, exculpate yourself
and show me your pearls by explaining in 10-20
lines what ***physically measurable** dimensions
(in kg, meter & sec) the term Space-time has.
>
Don't keep going on like the village that you have
shown to be so far, and when you go to CERN
perhaps you will notice that the physicists there,
in that Lab, do ***MEASURE*** things... which
is the purpose in the art of Physics. Versteh?
>
After that, all the rest is conjecture, guesswork
and Gedanken farts, which the hanger-ons and
coat tail riders of the experimantal physicists call
"theories" which in turn are slurped up by village
idiots who belivef that those stories aka theories
are true and reality.. which they are not...
>
which is why, admirable as your misguided
dreams may be, do pay attention and try to
"begreifen"/understand why luminaries like...

>
||| Edward Teller, the inventor of the H-Bomb, said:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwiayZ3sH7U >
||| "Einstein didn't know what he was talking about..."
||| "...or he was lying, or both".
>
||| Prof. Carver A. Mead of Caltech (a student of Feynman),
||| "It is my firm belief that the 20th century will be
|||characterized in history as the dark ages of physics."
>
||| or F.A Hayek, Nobel laureate, who said: "In the future,
||| Humanity will see in our Epoch an Era of superstition, all
||| associated with the names of Marx, Freud and Einstein"
>
||| or John Beckman, an astronomy professor & Einstein disciple:
||| "The theory of relativity lives on. Is it a true picture of reality?
||| That is probably more a matter of FAITH than of proof."
>
Thanks for the laughs, though, Lahn... ahahahahanson
>

PS:
Thomas, have you ever noticed that Nobel prices
are only issued for tangible result of experiments,
never for theories...

[hanson]

<mlwo...@wp.pl> wrote:
> użytkownik Helmut Wabnig napisał: <snipped>
>
<mlwo...@wp.pl> wrote:
> Why bother about relativistic moron Helmut Wabnig .
> Relativistic moron Wabnigger lives on IMMOBILE
> (from his wabniggering point of view) EARTH.
> Relativistic moron Wabnigger doesn't need observer
> independent coordinates, as well as Wabnigger
> does not need synchronized clocks and
> usually relativistic moron Wabnigger says
> anything Wabnigger does not need is wrong.
>
> What a moron Wabnigger is.
>
hanson wrote:
Wozniak, Kudos to you! Well said. You are a wisee man.

[hanson]

<hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> "Helmut Wabnigger" is unhappy
about the <Point...@web.de> of "Lame-brained-Lahn", in his
own wabiggering Groessenwahn, stuttered & got "bothered about"
his failure of not being able to see what MLT dimesions there are in

ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - c^2dt^2

and thus Wabnigger |||HW||| insisted and....
>
|||HW said: "Jews are a residue of failed evolution"
|||HW said: "Relativity is wrong because Einstein was a Jew".
|||HW said: "Convert to the ONE & ONLY Religion of Relativity"
|||HW said: "GPS has a 38000 sec delay time"
|||HW said: "I am an Einstein Dingleberry!
|||HW said: "It's a good life sitting under the date palm tree"
|||HW said: "Judaism & Islam are consistent in that respect"
|||HW said: "demontage all Israel, Stone by stone, brick by brick"
|||HW said: "I have seen an UFO yesterday!"
|||HW said: "A ghost-driver is on the motorway!"
|||HW said: "Nobody on the internet knows that I am a dog"
>
Helmut, wabnigger on. You are always good for a laugh,
but for nothing else though.... ahahahahahahahanson

[Helmut Wabnig]

You pulled that collection out of your arse, hanson.
You are a liar.

How do you perform on the hanson family meetings,
hans hanson, your place is there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TioFybTbC3E

=========
hans hanson says,
relativity is wrong because he, hans hanson, does not need it.

hans hanson says,
the Jews are the cause of antisemitism,
and denies that he, hans hanson is the real cause,
together with such idiots as Henry Ford I and Adolf Hitler.
hans hanson wants to rob and steal from the Jews,
out of lousy jealousy and greed, the motor of antisemitism.

hans hanson says,
relativity is wrong because Einstein was a Jew.
hans hanson is a proponent of "Deutsche Physik"
where E = mcc is forbidden.

w.

[hanson]

"Helmut Wabnig" <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat>
is drunk, loaded and cranked himself when
Wabnigger |||HW klagte und farted in einem
fort from his hovel in Austria's Klagenfurt,
because hanson posted Wabnigger's pearls
of wisdom, all of which Wabnigger posted &
can be seen in Wabnigger's archive where
and when...

>
|||HW said: "Relativity is wrong because Einstein was a Jew".

|||HW said: "I am an Einstein Dingleberry!
|||HW said: "GPS has a 38000 sec delay time"

|||HW said: "Jews are a residue of failed evolution"

|||HW said: "Convert to the ONE & ONLY Religion of Relativity"

|||HW said: "It's a good life sitting under the date palm tree"
|||HW said: "Judaism & Islam are consistent in that respect"
|||HW said: "demontage all Israel, Stone by stone, brick by brick"
|||HW said: "I have seen an UFO yesterday!"
|||HW said: "A ghost-driver is on the motorway!"
|||HW said: "Nobody on the internet knows that I am a dog"
>

hanson wrote:
ahahaha.. Wabie, you can be forgiven for all
the above if you are capable to post what MLT
dimensions there are in
ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - c^2dt^2 ... [1]
and explain what that "s" in [1] stands for.
>
Wabie, do that and don't just carry on with your
usual compulsive, habitual drinking & gross
wabniggering, but try to be more than a geriatric
parroting Einstein Dingleberry that worships
Albert's Sphincter while dangling there and
basking, in your religious bliss, in the warm and
cozy breeze of Einstein's GEDANKEN farts, ...
... but you not even knowing why you do that...

Till then thanks for the laughs... ahahahahanson